Back when the Navy was getting its first F-14 deliveries there was a flyoff that was set up between the Tomcat and the Phantom. The Phantom pilots thought that the Tomcat was too big and too heavy to be an effective dogfighter. They were shocked when no matter how hard they tried they couldn't get on the Tomcat's six.
Would love to see this map/format continue with the F-14 against the next fighter - a tournament style format where the victor moves on to face the next (escalating) fighter jet.
Nice work guys. I think it's obvious with these versions of the aircraft that the Tomcat is the better plane. I think the Phantom shouldn't be disregarded or underestimated though.
This is the battle I've been waiting for. The F-4 vs. The F-14. In DCS, can the F-16s carry Fox-1s? F-16 vs. F-4 and F-15 vs. F-4 with Fox-1s would be interesting.
would have loved to have taken part in this been flying the phantom a lot and have been doing some practice F4 vs F14 stuff funnily enough, remember with the Fox 1s you have to give about 5 seconds for the radar to send the information to the missile cant just lock and fire. jester normally gives timing callouts. RWR i don't think gives A2A missile warning from what i remember. you might get spike warning but not any fire warnings. Mach 0.7 is the sweet spot for the F4 when turning
What would have happened in the last engagement if the F-4s had stayed high, locked up the Tomcats, and then ripple fired 3 Sparrows at 5 second intervals? Then each of the 2 Tomcats would have had 6 Sparrows incoming!
If the Tomcat is that much better basically all around, then why did they use an F-4 as aggressors (Viper & Jester) in the first Top Gun and they said they used the F-4 to resemble a mig (28 im guessing) saying it is quicker and more maneuverable than the F- 14??
@@dougmuti3850 don't forget Top Gun missions are scripted to ensure close range fights take place. In that department the small nimble A4 was a real handful for F14 pilots being forced out of their comfort zone into a different type of fight to what their aircraft would ideally be used (long range missile shots not giving their enemy chance to engage).
@@dougmuti3850 : The A-4 was used to cosplay the MiG-17 at Top Gun (the real one, not the movie). Slow subsonic, but very agile. The F-5 was used to cosplay the MiG-21.
The f4 could fly and fast and was built as an interceptor. USAF and USN tried turning it into a jack of all trades, fighter, fighter bomber, recon, weasel, bomber, ground attack, etc. But it was at best mediocre in all of these rolls. When aircraft like the mig 15 and 17 where outperforming it in dogfights, aircraft that cost one fifth the price, it still took USN and USAF to realize years to realize it's many flaws. F15, A10, F16, F14, and F18s were built for specific missions for which each excelled. There is no comparison. Despite excuses offered by brass, the f4 really was only kept in service because we had nothing to replace it with and the pentagon didn't want to admit it really was a turkey. Notice the similarities with another jack of all trades master of none like the f35?
You know you were making good arguments and a reasonable conclusion about the f4. But I'm sorry you've completely gone off your rocker when you're trying to compare the f-35. Got to remember the F-35 is a 5th generation stealth aircraft. Now while I agree I don't think it's what they should be using for the close air support mission, I don't think you can make that argument when it comes to the other things. You're putting a really really stealthy F-35 against 4th generation aircraft. And if used properly, it will not matter. Now if China or russia, and I couldn't say that with a straight face Russia that is, ever get a really good stealthy jet then you might have an argument. But I think what we're going to find out in the future is in order to have a truly stealthy aircraft you are going to have to make sacrifices when it comes to some of the other things. And honestly it truly looks like the doctrine is going to be using the F-35 as a type of Ford deployed awacs with 4th generation backing it up. I think the only way we'll really know if your argument about the F-35 has any Merit is come back in 20 years✌️👍
Back when the Navy was getting its first F-14 deliveries there was a flyoff that was set up between the Tomcat and the Phantom. The Phantom pilots thought that the Tomcat was too big and too heavy to be an effective dogfighter. They were shocked when no matter how hard they tried they couldn't get on the Tomcat's six.
alternate title for this: 2 jesters against eachother
Agreed
Or the clown show?
Its not the plane Mav, its the pilot.
It’s actually, watch the birdy! Ahhahahahahaha 🖕🏻
It's the economy idiot 🧐
Not this again
I would love more Fox 1 BVR fights, would be nice to see how the MiG-29 operates in a fully semi-active fight
These are fun fights, I think it would be interesting to also see with neutral radar capabilities… then it’s kinematics vs kinematics
Pure, unrefined fun! Keep 'em coming!
Would love to see this map/format continue with the F-14 against the next fighter - a tournament style format where the victor moves on to face the next (escalating) fighter jet.
Robin Olds would be proud with the f4 flying.
Awesome fighting, how about F-4E Phantom vs F-5E Tiger II ?
Nice work guys. I think it's obvious with these versions of the aircraft that the Tomcat is the better plane. I think the Phantom shouldn't be disregarded or underestimated though.
Great flying but even better topography and environmental effects.
This is the battle I've been waiting for. The F-4 vs. The F-14.
In DCS, can the F-16s carry Fox-1s? F-16 vs. F-4 and F-15 vs. F-4 with Fox-1s would be interesting.
Epic fight between the GR Elite.
Was literally watching previous videos and missed the live
would have loved to have taken part in this been flying the phantom a lot and have been doing some practice F4 vs F14 stuff funnily enough, remember with the Fox 1s you have to give about 5 seconds for the radar to send the information to the missile cant just lock and fire. jester normally gives timing callouts. RWR i don't think gives A2A missile warning from what i remember. you might get spike warning but not any fire warnings. Mach 0.7 is the sweet spot for the F4 when turning
I wanna hear Super Cap get super excited ☺️
What would have happened in the last engagement if the F-4s had stayed high, locked up the Tomcats, and then ripple fired 3 Sparrows at 5 second intervals? Then each of the 2 Tomcats would have had 6 Sparrows incoming!
More of this!
Maybe in 4 vs 2 if the F-4's split up in pairs and try to simultaneously engage 2 on 1.
That's all I got...
F-4 vs F-18. Thrust & weight are very similar.
I can google this, but heres a comment or question: How many attack aircraft usually fly together on an operation?
There is no standard "package" size. It all depends on what the mission goals etc are.
Sexy machines!
Another valued video from Grim Reapers.
The F-4 is still sexy as hell!
F14 vs F4 - Remember back when the F4 pilots initially felt the same way about the MiG17?!😬
What no Phoenix in a Bvr fight on a Tomcat that is bloody sacrilege guys what are u doing. lol :)
Cap explained why at the beginning
@@dexlab7539 I know mate it was a joke. :)
I'm a lil late than normal 😪
Thompson Donna White Amy Rodriguez Carol
If the Tomcat is that much better basically all around, then why did they use an F-4 as aggressors (Viper & Jester) in the first Top Gun and they said they used the F-4 to resemble a mig (28 im guessing) saying it is quicker and more maneuverable than the F- 14??
They didn't use an f4's. They used a4's, very different aircraft. The MIGs were represented by f5's.
@@mstevens113 A-4 that's even worse. The A-4 was a sub-sonic attack aircraft.
@@dougmuti3850 the A4 could turn on a dime and had a decent power/weight ratio, not bad for training
@@dougmuti3850 don't forget Top Gun missions are scripted to ensure close range fights take place. In that department the small nimble A4 was a real handful for F14 pilots being forced out of their comfort zone into a different type of fight to what their aircraft would ideally be used (long range missile shots not giving their enemy chance to engage).
@@dougmuti3850 : The A-4 was used to cosplay the MiG-17 at Top Gun (the real one, not the movie). Slow subsonic, but very agile. The F-5 was used to cosplay the MiG-21.
The f4 could fly and fast and was built as an interceptor. USAF and USN tried turning it into a jack of all trades, fighter, fighter bomber, recon, weasel, bomber, ground attack, etc. But it was at best mediocre in all of these rolls. When aircraft like the mig 15 and 17 where outperforming it in dogfights, aircraft that cost one fifth the price, it still took USN and USAF to realize years to realize it's many flaws. F15, A10, F16, F14, and F18s were built for specific missions for which each excelled. There is no comparison. Despite excuses offered by brass, the f4 really was only kept in service because we had nothing to replace it with and the pentagon didn't want to admit it really was a turkey. Notice the similarities with another jack of all trades master of none like the f35?
You know you were making good arguments and a reasonable conclusion about the f4.
But I'm sorry you've completely gone off your rocker when you're trying to compare the f-35. Got to remember the F-35 is a 5th generation stealth aircraft. Now while I agree I don't think it's what they should be using for the close air support mission, I don't think you can make that argument when it comes to the other things. You're putting a really really stealthy F-35 against 4th generation aircraft. And if used properly, it will not matter. Now if China or russia, and I couldn't say that with a straight face Russia that is, ever get a really good stealthy jet then you might have an argument. But I think what we're going to find out in the future is in order to have a truly stealthy aircraft you are going to have to make sacrifices when it comes to some of the other things.
And honestly it truly looks like the doctrine is going to be using the F-35 as a type of Ford deployed awacs with 4th generation backing it up. I think the only way we'll really know if your argument about the F-35 has any Merit is come back in 20 years✌️👍
Cap you are bad