I like U guy'z so much because U R honest and humble. So many other makers have attitudes, and get testie after a few short years. And U show all your 007 secrete tips. Thx for a great experience following your progress. I have watched every vid.
I'm super happy to see that Erik has graduated to the grinder for sharpening. WEPS is a great system, and it does remarkably well with a straight edge, but I HATE it for recurves. It never felt right trying to do it. After he's ran that grinder for a year he will be better than the WE anyway, and there is a hefty contingent of people like me that really like the "maker's edge" on a custom, so I think it's a win-win. Keep up the great content and sweet products, boys!
Small tip. Get a 2x4 stud. Cut it to about a foot. After the 220 belt cut into the 2x4 the entire length of the knife. This will ensure the removal of the burr before stropping. Many times when you strop after you won't remove the entire burr and it will be sharp but will loose it's edge quickly. Plus it keep the stropping time down. (I own a sharpening business). Fuller Sharpening in Texas
John, Excellent vid! perfect timing as well, I just stonewashed little keychain hatchets that I made last night. Was having the same problem and did not know why! Thanks for sharing
For tumbling, I press teflon plugs into the pivot holes of my knives. I usually give them an extra (estimating) 3/32-1/16 on each side. Prevents sticking, prevents media from getting stuck in the holes, and keeps the holes and bearing surfaces from getting roughed up
silentqueue I really like this idea... something press-fit that provides snug / predictable coverage. Love the videos, but the comments on them are just as helpful many times. Thanks for sharing!
Awesome video guys. Btw, in knife sharpening lingo, when u swap one side of the burr, then the other like Erik was doing, it's known as "" chasing the burr"" !!!! Thanks for sharing. Still love my new Norseman. Mark
I'm not sure if you have heard this before but if you take the knife and run the edge along a piece of wood-with the grain, it will knock off the bur faster and then you can put a real quick wicked edge on it with a few passes of the strop.
We have a Mr.Deburr unit (the super common one, roughly the size of a laundry basket.) It works well, but I'm glad its well isolated from my working area. The sharp ones eventually become dull ones over time. We actually rotate between different shapes. Eventually, you wind up with a variety of shapes and sizes, seems to work well enough. Look forward to that setup video :)
For sharpening I use a 1x42 grinder from Lee Vally and their 15u belts (about 1200x) and then the leather strop with the green compound. Ive never had a sharper knife, I can literally whittle hair strands. And using the grinder for sharpening is sweet! Its so much faster then stones.
I'm still using a WE. And I'm stupid. lol Need to switch over. I even got the leather belt and the reverse switch for the grinder. Hope you guys are doing well.
Just an idea, You could just machine out like a plug for the pivot that comes out a bit on both sides, in plastic so they dont stick together, and just use them every time you send them out, for the better consistent results?:)
my buddy uses sand in his tumbler. he made it out of a cement mixer. purs the parts in, and sand, and lets it spin. i've seem some crazy polished stuff come out of that thing.
John, tell Erik that burr should dissapear within 4-6 passes, no more. You need to angle it up a bit more than Your actual edge angle. When You're stropping it too long it can get less sharp actually. Keep it up Guys!
Agreed. Over stropping creates a rounded edge, destroying the final angle. I don't know what Erik's finals look like, but I have had to basically re-grind several blades after repeated bad stropping on my part. Also, how did Erik win and get his likeness as the logo? Rock, Paper Scissors?
Hi John and Erick, Thanks for the latest video, and there is sharm and GRIMSMO sharp right? The tumbler sould great and gives you more control as well. Just one point, if it gets to be on for many hours you can always put it in= side a chest freezer, or build its own 'sound-proof' cupboard. Take care mrbluenun
if you would hone the blade on the sanding belt the way you're supposed to - have the grain go against the sharp edge of the blade, not from it, then there would be no bur to "brake" off later on the strop, do it the right way and save yourself a ton of time also, note for steel blades, having the razor sharp edge ride on the powered leather strop for too long (like you're doing it now) isn't a good idea either, you can easy overheat the very edge and screw up the temper of the edge, not the whole blade, just the razor sharp edge
yea the wicked edge is probably the best thing for straight blades like tantos and straight razors. But when used on knives with curves and recurves you will end up with varying edge angles.
Is there anything one can do if their non-Grimsmo blade wasn't masked before PVD coating and etching? The chalky feel and sound is driving me insane. Thanks for all your great videos. I used to binge watch Netflix documentaries. Now I binge watch your channel. Much mo' better.
Dude you should feel guilty. We all knew that you had a Super Secret Squirrel, protoype, Tormach CNC grinder that we saw at the CNC knife making class, and we have been waiting patiently for a video. P.S. It's nice to see that you guys are using a belt grinder to sharpen your knives. Now we just have to convince you to grind off those milling steps on the sides.
If you want your belt always going one way, would drawing an arrow on the underside of the belt indicating direction cause you any problems? (I can't imagine a sharpie would harm the leather at all?)
Hi John, As usual, another nice video loaded with info. I listened with interest about the Northern tool tumbler. You mentioned a price of $800.00. The picture you showed was the 2.5 CF model that sells for around $1550.00. Is the 2.5 CF model the one you are going to order? Looking forward to the video on the tumbler and associated media when you get it. Also liked the leather belt. I will have to order one for my grinder. John
Hey John! I just ordered the 1.25cf tumbler, the $800 one. Should be here soon and I will definitely do setup and operational videos with. There's like NO info in the internet about this tumbler, it's weird. Hope it will benefit you!
Doing hundreds of X more work, faster, with the power stropper than the WE. I find a 300 grit edge cuts better for me than 1000, its just toothier, and works better for me. I like your stropping system way better than WE.
If you find out whats the best media can you make sure you let us know in a video. I am trying to find the best media. I hope it tuns out a lot better than gravel from the driveway lol :P And Yes! I knew I saw a new machine over there. And Ive got the eyes of a god, I think maybe its a surface grinder... Maybe Im not sure though. Probably a surface grinder. Sorry to ruin the surprise..
any suggestions on how to sharpen these with a sharpening stone? I've been using the spyderco sharpener for my knives, but will it work for a blade shape as unique as this one?
Yeah the Spyderco Sharpmaker will work great for these knives, that's what I used for my first few Norseman knives. It's a good, cheap, easy system to have around. I used my sharpmaker for 10 years before I started making knives ;-).
I have had good luck with this on my stropping belt for the 1x30 and my crappy homemade block. I can't bring myself to do it on either of my nice strops, though. It would probably save them on compound in the long run, so a great point!
tony Pettersen Ya know, I haven't even used my WE strops. They are still sitting in their tidy little boxes on my shelf. One day I will use the balsas, but there is just something about hand stropping that I generally prefer. I really only use the 1x30 strop belt when I have fully reprofiled something or reground it to convex. I have used a bit of heat when cleaning the swarf from my nice strops, but usually heating the oil on the stove not directly heating the strop. I may give it a try on my block this weekend though. It is filthy.
I really love your knives. your blades are sharp. I think your sharpening would go faster if you do oneortwo passes on 600 or 800 grit belt then strop.
7247tank7247 I think we just have an opposing philosophy here. For a $500+ knife, I want the maker to put the edge on it, not a tool I could easily train a patient 5-year-old to use. And that is no knock on the WE, it is a great tool. I just want the (wo)man to put the blade to stone or belt. I'm sure if you bought one, the Brothers Grimsmo would be more than happy to WEPS it if that were the edge you preferred. :)
7247tank7247 uh, are they seriously charging $500 for one of these!? if so that's insane. It's not really even a custom knife...they're doing what every other large scale knife manufacturer is doing...just on a smaller scale. like 95% of the work is done by the cnc machine...they just do a little clean up, assemble them, then sharpen them on a belt grinder. i mean all the power...and money...to them, but if I'm gonna fork out that much money for a knife i'd buy me a custom made knife. good thing i make my own:)
You guys should consider not sharpening like that anymore considering people will be testing the HRC at the edges soon. Especially if you care about your heat treatment protocol... People won't be testing hrc at the spine, nor the pivot. They will be testing behind the edge for burnt edges on a lot of manufacter blades soon enough. Also reliance on feeling the blade for warmth isn't going to cut it. The creep of overheating hits the grinding side before your fingers.
John whats's your email I would like to order a knife with bronze honey comb finish. And a satin blade and have your brother make it laxer sharp please. Thanks Josh
What the hell $500 for a knife way over priced i was expecting $150 is the medereals that expensive and remembur it's all done with CNC so hardly eny hand crafting skills just spend a day weighting up a code then let the CNC do the fun part but $500 base price i bit much
alexander cruse It seems like you don't understand how things add up very quickly. No one wants to work for free and there is a lot of time put into the design, machining, hand fitting, finishing / tumbling / anodizing and other work that goes into making these knives. You grossly underestimate the amount of hand work that goes into these. Let's talk for a second JUST about CNC machine time. Any CNC machine shop is going to charge somewhere in the neighborhood of $80 an hour (quite possibly more) PLUS materials PLUS consumables (end mills, sanding belts, compounds / acids / other chemicals). The blades aren't just machined once, but they are machined multiple times before and after hardening to get the fit just right. So, let's do some estimation / math here. Say he does a batch of 17 knives. The blades themselves probably consume several hours of machine time during the first cut from blanks. After hardening they probably consume another hour or two in the reaming and related processes. The titanium handles likewise take at least a couple hours to machine and could easily take twice or three times that because of the detail work that goes into the handles. We are seeing at LEAST 9 or 10 hours of machine time for 17 knives, but this is likely a VERY low estimate as I realize that doesn't account for ALL the other hardware he makes himself. It could easily be double that. That's a minimum of $800 machine time (probably more like $1600 ballpark), another $200 to $400 in consumables. Figure each "regular" (non damasteel) knife is about $200 in raw materials (including screws, spacers, ball bearings (which he makes himself, so more machine time). Now, factor in all the labor that goes into the hand fitting / chamfering / sharpening / polishing / anodizing and other hand processes. You're well over $6000 into a batch of 17 knives with parts and labor. That's EASILY $350 per knife just in COST... This is a business and their livelihood and as such they are probably making $200 per knife on top of shop / labor costs. If you don't think the knife is worth the money, that's fine. You're entitled to feel however you want, but if you want a real appreciation for how much actual hand work goes into these machined knives, you need to go back and watch some more videos. The fact that these brothers share this information with the world is a huge gift for others that are getting into knife making and for those that want to have an appreciation of what went into making their knife. Have your opinion, but please understand that there is no way it has any basis in reality and what shops really charge for this kind of work.
I like U guy'z so much because U R honest and humble. So many other makers have attitudes, and get testie after a few short years. And U show all your 007 secrete tips. Thx for a great experience following your progress. I have watched every vid.
I'm super happy to see that Erik has graduated to the grinder for sharpening. WEPS is a great system, and it does remarkably well with a straight edge, but I HATE it for recurves. It never felt right trying to do it.
After he's ran that grinder for a year he will be better than the WE anyway, and there is a hefty contingent of people like me that really like the "maker's edge" on a custom, so I think it's a win-win.
Keep up the great content and sweet products, boys!
Man it's so awesome watching these early videos and seeing how far u guys have come... Deservedly
Small tip. Get a 2x4 stud. Cut it to about a foot. After the 220 belt cut into the 2x4 the entire length of the knife. This will ensure the removal of the burr before stropping. Many times when you strop after you won't remove the entire burr and it will be sharp but will loose it's edge quickly. Plus it keep the stropping time down. (I own a sharpening business). Fuller Sharpening in Texas
John, Excellent vid! perfect timing as well, I just stonewashed little keychain hatchets that I made last night. Was having the same problem and did not know why!
Thanks for sharing
The purple and carbon fiber knife is so sweet! Great color combo!!!
For tumbling, I press teflon plugs into the pivot holes of my knives. I usually give them an extra (estimating) 3/32-1/16 on each side. Prevents sticking, prevents media from getting stuck in the holes, and keeps the holes and bearing surfaces from getting roughed up
silentqueue I really like this idea... something press-fit that provides snug / predictable coverage. Love the videos, but the comments on them are just as helpful many times. Thanks for sharing!
Awesome video guys. Btw, in knife sharpening lingo, when u swap one side of the burr, then the other like Erik was doing, it's known as
"" chasing the burr"" !!!! Thanks for sharing. Still love my new Norseman.
Mark
I'm not sure if you have heard this before but if you take the knife and run the edge along a piece of wood-with the grain, it will knock off the bur faster and then you can put a real quick wicked edge on it with a few passes of the strop.
Glad to see ya sharpening th easy way! I use a 3m wheel. Same as you have, then strop. Beautifull edge. Exparament and see for yourself!
We have a Mr.Deburr unit (the super common one, roughly the size of a laundry basket.) It works well, but I'm glad its well isolated from my working area. The sharp ones eventually become dull ones over time. We actually rotate between different shapes. Eventually, you wind up with a variety of shapes and sizes, seems to work well enough.
Look forward to that setup video :)
Sweet. Yeah I think my new one (yes I just bought it) is like the china version of a Mr Deburr.
Great video John. Raising my anticipation level for my first Norseman.
For sharpening I use a 1x42 grinder from Lee Vally and their 15u belts (about 1200x) and then the leather strop with the green compound. Ive never had a sharper knife, I can literally whittle hair strands. And using the grinder for sharpening is sweet! Its so much faster then stones.
I always get exited when i find out you made a vid, thanks !!
Love watching your videos!!!!
I'm still using a WE. And I'm stupid. lol Need to switch over. I even got the leather belt and the reverse switch for the grinder. Hope you guys are doing well.
Just an idea, You could just machine out like a plug for the pivot that comes out a bit on both sides, in plastic so they dont stick together, and just use them every time you send them out, for the better consistent results?:)
You all do some great work
HEY! Someone found a wayward surface grinder. Looks like your giving it a good home.
By your assembly table, that black and grey compaq micro atx pc box... I have one of those under my desk... Maybe one day I'll have a norseman too :3
my buddy uses sand in his tumbler. he made it out of a cement mixer. purs the parts in, and sand, and lets it spin. i've seem some crazy polished stuff come out of that thing.
That looks like great therapy work, Eric must be a super calm guy :)
I don't even own a sharpener yet. I just strop my knives after I use them and they stay pretty razor sharp. Keeping the factory edge.
John, tell Erik that burr should dissapear within 4-6 passes, no more. You need to angle it up a bit more than Your actual edge angle. When You're stropping it too long it can get less sharp actually. Keep it up Guys!
Agreed. Over stropping creates a rounded edge, destroying the final angle. I don't know what Erik's finals look like, but I have had to basically re-grind several blades after repeated bad stropping on my part. Also, how did Erik win and get his likeness as the logo? Rock, Paper Scissors?
Hi John and Erick,
Thanks for the latest video, and there is sharm and GRIMSMO sharp right?
The tumbler sould great and gives you more control as well.
Just one point, if it gets to be on for many hours you can always put it in=
side a chest freezer, or build its own 'sound-proof' cupboard.
Take care mrbluenun
if you would hone the blade on the sanding belt the way you're supposed to - have the grain go against the sharp edge of the blade, not from it, then there would be no bur to "brake" off later on the strop, do it the right way and save yourself a ton of time
also, note for steel blades, having the razor sharp edge ride on the powered leather strop for too long (like you're doing it now) isn't a good idea either, you can easy overheat the very edge and screw up the temper of the edge, not the whole blade, just the razor sharp edge
yea the wicked edge is probably the best thing for straight blades like tantos and straight razors. But when used on knives with curves and recurves you will end up with varying edge angles.
Is there anything one can do if their non-Grimsmo blade wasn't masked before PVD coating and etching? The chalky feel and sound is driving me insane. Thanks for all your great videos. I used to binge watch Netflix documentaries. Now I binge watch your channel. Much mo' better.
Corner looks like a surface grinder?,
Your videos are awesome have watched most of them, you've got some great machining techniques.
Where can one obtain that belt sharpening setup? I wouldn't need anything that massive, but a smaller "hobbiest" model would be nice
I was going to get one to support you guys, but damn are you making bank!
What is the difference in finish between tumbling and shot blasting? shotting would be faster but require you to blast each part manually.
Dude you should feel guilty. We all knew that you had a Super Secret Squirrel, protoype, Tormach CNC grinder that we saw at the CNC knife making class, and we have been waiting patiently for a video. P.S. It's nice to see that you guys are using a belt grinder to sharpen your knives. Now we just have to convince you to grind off those milling steps on the sides.
Haha, that scotchbrite wheel is getting ridiculously small now :P
That purple knife is sick
That's how I sharpen my blades, 220 to strop. I find it gives a nice toothy edge but its a very fine toothy.
Hi John Is my #166 in one of your little assembly boxes? Just wondering ;)
If you want your belt always going one way, would drawing an arrow on the underside of the belt indicating direction cause you any problems? (I can't imagine a sharpie would harm the leather at all?)
Many belts already come with the arrows printed to the bottom. Such as 3m and klingspor
Hi John,
As usual, another nice video loaded with info. I listened with interest about the Northern tool tumbler. You mentioned a price of $800.00. The picture you showed was the 2.5 CF model that sells for around $1550.00. Is the 2.5 CF model the one you are going to order? Looking forward to the video on the tumbler and associated media when you get it.
Also liked the leather belt. I will have to order one for my grinder.
John
Hey John! I just ordered the 1.25cf tumbler, the $800 one. Should be here soon and I will definitely do setup and operational videos with. There's like NO info in the internet about this tumbler, it's weird. Hope it will benefit you!
Doing hundreds of X more work, faster, with the power stropper than the WE. I find a 300 grit edge cuts better for me than 1000, its just toothier, and works better for me. I like your stropping system way better than WE.
If you find out whats the best media can you make sure you let us know in a video. I am trying to find the best media. I hope it tuns out a lot better than gravel from the driveway lol :P And Yes! I knew I saw a new machine over there. And Ive got the eyes of a god, I think maybe its a surface grinder... Maybe Im not sure though. Probably a surface grinder. Sorry to ruin the surprise..
any suggestions on how to sharpen these with a sharpening stone? I've been using the spyderco sharpener for my knives, but will it work for a blade shape as unique as this one?
Yeah the Spyderco Sharpmaker will work great for these knives, that's what I used for my first few Norseman knives. It's a good, cheap, easy system to have around. I used my sharpmaker for 10 years before I started making knives ;-).
I find that blasting my stroppes with a heatgun while applying paste makes it adhere better..
I have had good luck with this on my stropping belt for the 1x30 and my crappy homemade block. I can't bring myself to do it on either of my nice strops, though. It would probably save them on compound in the long run, so a great point!
Casey Bennett works well on the weps strops, they shed less compound and pretty quickly turn blackish with metal form stropping
tony Pettersen Ya know, I haven't even used my WE strops. They are still sitting in their tidy little boxes on my shelf. One day I will use the balsas, but there is just something about hand stropping that I generally prefer.
I really only use the 1x30 strop belt when I have fully reprofiled something or reground it to convex.
I have used a bit of heat when cleaning the swarf from my nice strops, but usually heating the oil on the stove not directly heating the strop. I may give it a try on my block this weekend though. It is filthy.
Hey JohnGrimsmo what size is the contact wheel?
I really love your knives. your blades are sharp. I think your sharpening would go faster if you do oneortwo passes on 600 or 800 grit belt then strop.
You gonna let me come and hang out in your shop yet? Want to show you some of the knives i have made.
Hi John and Erik do Grimsmo Knives Ship to Europa? i cant find info about shipping on your webside
Yes we sure do ship to Europe.
Still usin' dat Tuff Glide I see.
Ohh man..... surface grinder in the back. Should cut down on facing mills, and a whole lotta time
It's a planer isn't it?
I love my 1x30 leather belts.
Nice!
"oh darn more tools" lol
Thank U
for the price of your knives I'd rather have it wicked edged
Crazy talk
for a knife that the base price is $500
7247tank7247 I think we just have an opposing philosophy here. For a $500+ knife, I want the maker to put the edge on it, not a tool I could easily train a patient 5-year-old to use.
And that is no knock on the WE, it is a great tool. I just want the (wo)man to put the blade to stone or belt.
I'm sure if you bought one, the Brothers Grimsmo would be more than happy to WEPS it if that were the edge you preferred. :)
7247tank7247 uh, are they seriously charging $500 for one of these!? if so that's insane. It's not really even a custom knife...they're doing what every other large scale knife manufacturer is doing...just on a smaller scale. like 95% of the work is done by the cnc machine...they just do a little clean up, assemble them, then sharpen them on a belt grinder. i mean all the power...and money...to them, but if I'm gonna fork out that much money for a knife i'd buy me a custom made knife. good thing i make my own:)
Maximum fanboy troll :D Happy April fools, guys!
If only i could afford one lol
You guys should consider not sharpening like that anymore considering people will be testing the HRC at the edges soon. Especially if you care about your heat treatment protocol... People won't be testing hrc at the spine, nor the pivot. They will be testing behind the edge for burnt edges on a lot of manufacter blades soon enough.
Also reliance on feeling the blade for warmth isn't going to cut it. The creep of overheating hits the grinding side before your fingers.
the system of thingies
John whats's your email I would like to order a knife with bronze honey comb finish. And a satin blade and have your brother make it laxer sharp please. Thanks Josh
haha "sufficiently epic"
Maybe make a vid of building a whole knife and less talking?
How about stfu? Man rude as.
+daniel mabia tough guy maybe jump on a treadmill instead of being a keyboard warrior.
looks convex.
What the hell $500 for a knife way over priced i was expecting $150 is the medereals that expensive and remembur it's all done with CNC so hardly eny hand crafting skills just spend a day weighting up a code then let the CNC do the fun part but $500 base price i bit much
There's about $200 in materials used in each knife... So combined with the work that goes into these knives $500 is a pretty fair price.
Nope that's a lode of shit there over priced
alexander cruse It seems like you don't understand how things add up very quickly. No one wants to work for free and there is a lot of time put into the design, machining, hand fitting, finishing / tumbling / anodizing and other work that goes into making these knives. You grossly underestimate the amount of hand work that goes into these. Let's talk for a second JUST about CNC machine time. Any CNC machine shop is going to charge somewhere in the neighborhood of $80 an hour (quite possibly more) PLUS materials PLUS consumables (end mills, sanding belts, compounds / acids / other chemicals). The blades aren't just machined once, but they are machined multiple times before and after hardening to get the fit just right. So, let's do some estimation / math here. Say he does a batch of 17 knives. The blades themselves probably consume several hours of machine time during the first cut from blanks. After hardening they probably consume another hour or two in the reaming and related processes. The titanium handles likewise take at least a couple hours to machine and could easily take twice or three times that because of the detail work that goes into the handles. We are seeing at LEAST 9 or 10 hours of machine time for 17 knives, but this is likely a VERY low estimate as I realize that doesn't account for ALL the other hardware he makes himself. It could easily be double that. That's a minimum of $800 machine time (probably more like $1600 ballpark), another $200 to $400 in consumables. Figure each "regular" (non damasteel) knife is about $200 in raw materials (including screws, spacers, ball bearings (which he makes himself, so more machine time). Now, factor in all the labor that goes into the hand fitting / chamfering / sharpening / polishing / anodizing and other hand processes. You're well over $6000 into a batch of 17 knives with parts and labor. That's EASILY $350 per knife just in COST... This is a business and their livelihood and as such they are probably making $200 per knife on top of shop / labor costs. If you don't think the knife is worth the money, that's fine. You're entitled to feel however you want, but if you want a real appreciation for how much actual hand work goes into these machined knives, you need to go back and watch some more videos. The fact that these brothers share this information with the world is a huge gift for others that are getting into knife making and for those that want to have an appreciation of what went into making their knife. Have your opinion, but please understand that there is no way it has any basis in reality and what shops really charge for this kind of work.
alexander cruse would you rather it be 10 dollars and mass produced in china to horrible tolerances using barrel scrapings?
No I'd rather not get riped off $250 seems about right for what you get
I don't even own a sharpener yet. I just strop my knives after I use them and they stay pretty razor sharp. Keeping the factory edge.