I wish to correct an impression I've given in this interview that Frank brought an army of women to his house. This is false. To my knowledge, over twenty years, there were four and given Frank toured six months of most years we're talking over ten years. Frank trusted Gail above everyone else to run his business which indicates he held her in high esteem and she enjoyed that status. Frank clearly appreciated her. I wish I had said more to indicate this.
Loved your book. Best I’ve read in ages. Well done. I’m a fan of Franks music yes but I’m making an objective comment about the quality of the writing I just could not put it down. Also a very classy statement here to clarify your respect for the family. Gives the book even more credibility.
I won Frank's 'Chunga's Revenge' album at 14 in a radio competition and it blew me away....from there I checked him out. Such a great composer and a really fine guitarist. 😃. Genius!
Nice one! I lucked into a copy of Mothermania at my GRANDMOTHER'S HOUSE WHEN I WAS TEN... I played it... was amused... then a little bored... but I took it home... and by age 11 I was a fan. Zappa did pretty cool stuff with a bunch of garage musicians, and of course Ian and Ruth... I was already digging on a lot of prog by that time, and zappa didn't seem to know if he was prog or not... in fact... he made fun of just about every prog band, and unplugged Rick Wakeman in the middle of a solo, he said rock is dead at every show... he seemed to be ok with jazz... and avante... I'm going to dub what frank played... right here... right now... as mercury blues. Because he played with the stuff all the time as a kid, it causes madness... and a lot of his guitar work seems to be extended blues, and not jazz... so there. Mercury Blues.
@@seansweeney3532 You know more about Frank's music than I do. It's wonderful that you logged on at 11 years of age but what you mean about Mercury Blues I don't know. Perhaps other fans do.
@pauline butcher bird Well it's kind of a little play on words but more direct... There was a song in the fifties called mercury blues... And it's been covered numerous times by rock and country artists... But I was being so bold as to name Frank's style of music after the song... And the reason being... The popular British trope of the mad hatter... Well that existed before Alice-in-Wonderland... The reason Hatters went mad... Was because they used and handled mercury often and every day... And a little mercury goes a very long way... When it's in your bloodstream... And that's why they were mad. I believe it is referred to as mercury psychosis... But it's very brutal to your nervous system. And highly toxic... Though interestingly enough they used to give it to patients suffering from syphilis... They gave them these treatments of Mercury and iodine I believe, Both deadly poison in their pure form... And have a physical/mental effect upon the people they were administering it to. I suppose it was a trade-off between long-term syphilis and the problems associated with that, and the mental state the cure left you in... But back to my original wandering point... That I call his music Mercury blues... Because he plays standard and extended Blues figures on the guitar, most of the time... but using bizarre truncated rhythms and compositions around it... That being the madness or the mercury in mercury blues... They say that jimmy hendricks played basic straight blues in a similar way.... They say that hendricks was nothing but a blue's player but he just played blues from mars.. And here we have another planet... So it seems like there's a another overlying aspect to the label... Jimmy's from Mars and Frank's from Mercury.... lol
@@seansweeney3532 That is an amazing reply, and interesting too with the stuff about mercury which somewhere in my mind I learned but had forgotten. Thank you for taking the time.
I agree with Pauline! You're a great interviewer. I immediately went to your channel afterwards to see who else you've interviewed and there are only a few others. Please make more!
I just got Moon's book yesterday but when I was looking to order it I saw this book not knowing who this lady so coincidentally your video here showed up in my you tube so now I'm definitely going to get her book . Thanks for posting !
Carlr8061, thank you for reading my memoir. I am presently reading Moon's book and note that the traumas and emotional upheaval Moon speaks about, all have their seeds in my book, ie Frank's remoteness and womanising, Gail's hot and cold personality and erratic parenting, though I did see the best side of Gail's mothering skills before it seems she became cruel which I imagine worsened as her pain deepened.
i am a huge fan of zappa - my music was influenced so much by his mentality actually - but i wanted to say that Pauline is a wonderful woman - i look forward to reading her book and it's just amazing what i've read from her online and reviews of the book. It's people like Pauline that i am just glad to share this planet with when it is a deep dark harsh world out there. I hope Pauline knows she has made an amazing book and great interview here - Beautiful woman and as a zappa fan - more in WHO he was, i cannot explain to you how much i appreciate your work -
Thank you for the very nice comment. Pauline is amazing and has been extremely kind to me as well. I highly recommend purchasing her book and please purchase the paperback as the kindle format is the older version. Here is an amazon link: amzn.to/3KPQz3w
Bryandass368, thank you for your very kind response to my interview. I hope you enjoy the book as much. It sounds like you are a musician. I hope you've taken on board that Frank was a brilliant businessman, able to make money from his work when no one played it on the radio which, at that time, was the only outlet.
@@paulinebutcherbird i feel so starstruck with this response from you Pauline thank you for it! I want to word this right - My big interest in Frank Zappa is actually who he is much moreso than his music and art though i have great appreciation for that too. I am quite like you in that it is his mind -his way - that is so valuable - His business mentality is to me his most interesting part of his genius and I've spent the last 15 years flopping all over like a fish out of water in the world of corporate art, learning some hard lessons in business. I cannot lie - i am only now about to start my 'new life' with my independent art as my business but i have been planning it for a very long time. And alike u i am a writer and my first big product is indeed a book (which also advertises my music hehe) oof this message is turning into a book itself ! Your being able to write this book is so inspirational - thank you again - I am very friendless at the moment quite because of the 'business mentality' or perhaps bc of other reasons but i love how when Frank Zappa was asked about why he works alone so much he said "it's because i care" - i found the same goddamn thing. And on an interview he was asked about friendship and in his zappa humor/ruthless logic said "a friend is a guy who wants to borrow money LOL" - i understand a lot about him and u are and have helped me plenty. May you be blessed, you beautiful woman ! Take care !
I read the book and wrote to her after finding some other interviews with her, and she wrote back to thank me. No, thank you, Pauline... It was a wonderful portrait of an insane and strange time...
Update: finished the book. Its very well written and Pauline's story is fascinating, to say the least. She really paints an amazing picture of the inner workings of Frank's life at the log cabin and the other house. The GTO'S, the rock stars that visit Frank, and all of the craziness are all on display.
In the late '60s & early 70s, I had a school friend who was an avid music fan like myself. One day he came out that his Auntie worked for Frank Zappa in America. Honestly I did not really believe him until many years later I read Franks auto biography & he mentioned this lady, Pauline Butcher. My friend was Stephen Butcher [ sadly now deceased], son of Englishman John Butcher who emigrated to NZ . Stephen would always have the best & latest music albums,[ Let it Be & Woodstock Set] whether from Pauline or not, not sure. Cheers from NZ.
How nice to read your comment which I've only just seen. Stephen was indeed my nephew, the son of my brother, John Butcher. Both, as you say, sadly died, Stephen tragically young. Frank's book is of course a must for all Zappa fans, but he leaves out a huge amount of daily detail which one can find in mine and not shown in other Zappa books, from getting up to going to bed, composing at the piano, rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more. Finally, I wish to add a thank you to Jeff Starr for giving me this platform.
Absolutely absorbing watching and listening to this interview. Pauline is a lovely woman with a very gracious way about her and fascinating to hear of the time she spent with FZ. Having been a huge fan of Frank's music and thereby of Frank himself, it's both fascinating and shocking to get these deeper insights into the kind of person he was. Not wanting to be judgmental either, I find myself questioning how the image gets built up that's quite far removed from the reality. I still listen to Frank's music, at least those parts that first attracted me to it and continue to be enthralled. I just bought Pauline's book too. Looking forward to getting that tomorrow. Thanks.
Arthur, thank you for wanting to read my book. I'm concerned in this interview I don't give enough of the positives about Frank and hopefully you'll find those when you read it.
Lovely lady! I have always felt that Frank was not all cold; a complicated person in his own way, but not evil or cold. Very talented and a true genius. I mean, think about it: he was self taught!
Indeed, I have spoken to other women who worked closely with Frank in later years in similar roles to myself, and they also speak of his kindness and gentleness combined with his quietness and stillness and they too felt extreme fondness for him.
”Weird scenes inside the canyon” by David McGowan is a great book to learn about why all those musicians from all over the States and Canada ended up in Laurel Canyon!
That book is full of conspiracy theories, in particular that some kind of mysterious military connection brought them there and knocked them out one by one. The reality is that if you took any group of people at that time, say bricklayers, lawyers, doctors, hospital porters, you would find a military connection in their families because the military was the biggest employer at that time. I could go on, but this is sufficient for now.
@@paulinebutcherbird Although that is a fair point and at first I thought that too. However, the positions the parents of these figures held were very high up in the military, not just the everyday military personnel.
@@openvoice How does that make a difference? Frank Zappa's father was not high up in the military. Who among all those rock musicians had a father who could influence things?
@@paulinebutcherbird Yes he was high up. Okay, you need to do some reading. There is plentiful information on numerous figures. You could start with the book recommendation "Weird scenes...."
Seems like Frank was upfront and honest about what he wanted from people and was respectful if they refused to give him what he wanted. Anything beyond that would've been a waste of his time, which he seemed to view as something very valuable that he didn't have all that much of.
Heh. Might want to read a bit more about him. He was a great musician but a flawed human being. Said some very ugly things about people that were once close to him that were completely out of line.
@@brianhammer5107 My book is the only to give Frank's daily home life from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles and more.
Thanks for this. I am a huge Zappa fanatic (and a guitarist) and saw him live in NY and the surrounds many times from late 70’s to mid-80’s or so. I also have read several books and watched several movies and even was a contributor to the Alex Winter Kickstarter campaign which involved digitizing tons of mixed media in his “vault” and ultimately resulted in making the Doc film “Who the F*%% is Frank Zappa”, which I was somewhat disappointed in, but that’s a conversation for another place and time. Of course I have also poured over the treasure trove of Zappa material on YT. With that backdrop, I just wanted to say I am looking forward to reading the book and felt the author was very well spoken, interesting, articulate and concise. Regardless as to whether she loved or hated his music or even has much musical knowledge at all, she offers another unique perspective on the complex divisive genius of FZ. I will say that his view of woman expressed in many of his songs, is undoubtedly those he was most exposed to on the road and as a working musician in the 60’s and 70’s, including the so-called groupies. And as was suggested, he poked fun at everyone not just woman. Cheers!
@@adamkrauss303 I can imagine it must have been consoling to help in the Winter film. I too was underwhelmed by the film but, as you say, that's part of another thread. Thank you for your kind words about my contribution to the Zappa world.
Oh man! Ive got to check this book out! Zappa was a musician's musician. People who understand the complexity and originality of his work know what a genius he was, and of course he was very interesting personally as well. Can't wait to read this book.
Moon Unit Zappa just released a book on the 20th called “Earth to Moon”. I highly recommend it. She talks about the family and how Gayle did not follow Frank’s wishes after his death.
@Numb217 I invite everyone to watch my interview with Moon Unit Zappa where we discuss her book and life in detail: ua-cam.com/video/WFia_ErgENw/v-deo.html
I have Moon’s book on order. In the meantime I’m bingeing on videos with Moon out promoting the book. Including an excellent one on this very channel. I’m so soaking up a bunch of Frank Zappa content elsewhere. That’s how I ended up here. I read Pauline’s book many “moons” ago and loved it. Moon even promoted the book on Ahmet’s podcast - that’s how well they’re getting along these days. I just saw Dweezil play on 8/18 so it’s been a Zappa August!
I grew up in the Pomona Valley and live in the IE west of I-15. He's quite a legend around the area. My half sister's late father lived a few blocks north of his Cucamonga studio on Archibald.
Jeff, Do be aware, if you read my memoir, that it is my story but reveals Frank's home life not shown in other books, from getting up to going to bed, rehearsing with the Mothers of Invention, composing at the piano, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more. Reply
Thank you, John. I did interview Frank myself in 1988 and they are on You Tube in five parts: parenting, avengelism, composing, party hats, one last question.
Ah, Tony, how kind of you to notice. In fact I'm just off to post there now but I find FB's new Meta format almost impossible to use. It's all about advertising and promotion and very confusing.
So much for Zappa. He and his music were mainly a source of humor for me, and mild recognition of the technical prowess. There is nothing there that nourishes me year after year. He was valuable in pointing out the flaws of business and government.
The stature of Frank Zappa, I think, is that he could play in every sphere, doo-wop, classical, blues, rock'n'roll and jazz, and not one of these was specific to his music. There are few artists that could cover such a wide range and include satire and political commentary as well.
He is completely underrated as a guitar virtuoso who had amazing musical ideas,,, his lyrics were incomprehensible to many and offensive to many others,, but his gifts as a Pure Guitar player were undeniable...
I wish to add that I had a lapse of memory while answering one of the questions incorrectly. I said somewhere, though I can't now find it where on the tape, that Robert Plant had given Frank a book by Aleister Crowley, but it wasn't Robert but Jimmy Page. The trouble with audio is, you can't alter it! Lt. Garber below pointed this out to me. Top marks to him.
Frank had countless great songs and song titles, but among my top few favorites is "Variations on the Carlos Santana Secret Chord Progression." Hilarious. Santana was supposedly pretty pissed off about it!
@@paulinebutcherbird First, I am a retired professor: Elder Suicide: Durkheim's Vision; The Routledge Handbook of Social Work Ethics and Values; Crime in Creole Countries and in press Statistics in Criminal Justice Today (Textbook). My journal articles have become playful since reading your work
Just saw Stinkfoot Orchertra in SantaCruz a few nights ago. Very impressive! Ray White was singing with them. 14-piece band . 6 horns all reading from charts . They covered a wide range of Franks music . It was as good as Dweezils stuff. I love FRANK!!!! I have all of his music and still listen to it almost daily.
@@paulinebutcherbird Oh yea. I love Frank and i love his music. Seen him several times from 73 through 88. Dweezil many times too. Chip off the old block. Bit too serious but incredible none the less. Dad would be proud!
Sounds like he had Asperger's Syndrome, in the genius spectrum. About as hard to give a cheery nod to and expect one back as from Lou Reed or Mark E Smith. Love the way he seemed to be tuning into something divine and astral when he lit rip with the guitar. Maybe its written but it sounds entirely natural.
This hint of Apserger's Syndrome keeps being mentioned. I think it's stretching a point to suggest Frank had a mental illness. He showed no signs of the symptoms, other than his unwillingness to socialise and perhaps his obsessive work style. For me, he doesn't have enough of the symptoms to include him in the category.
@@paulinebutcherbird Fair enough, you were close to him for long enough. I only saw him the once and even then only his back, as he preformed the whole gig with his back to us (London, 1985-ish).
A lot of his music was written out, but his ripping guitar solos for the most part were completely improvised. He talks his improvisational philosophy in this interview: ua-cam.com/video/A6ZzTr-a2L8/v-deo.htmlsi=ZOD6VUIRH1STlO3h
6:15 "Laurel Canyon was like a fairyland." I can only imagine. I later lived on N. Fairfax just a few blocks from the foot of Laurel Canyon Blvd in '79 and I WISH I could have lived there in the '60s. Talk about a near-utopia for a young person. My brother and I met a guy in W. Hollywood (I think he was gay as he picked my brother up hitchhiking) but he gave us 3-4 boxes of 8 x 10 glossies of the Turtles taken while on tour in 1966, like, in bus stations/airports, etc. I held onto them for years but eventually tossed them. Wish I hadn't.
Social context is everything and the context of today is the opposite of the context of then. This was a great interview and very insightful of a brilliant artist’s life and times through her experiences. I am committed to getting the book.
@@MrDXRamirez Thank you, and I welcome questions and comments, especially from discerning readers. Do be aware, it is my story but reveals Frank's home life not shown in other books.
Context has nothing to do with it. FRANK had the RIGHT VIEWS about wo-MEN. MEN are the leaders and wo-MEN are to OBEY. This is in the bible. Frank said he was atheist, but his behavior was very biblical, especially his views about wo-MEN. God bless Frank, he did NOTHING wrong. To tell you the truth, Pauline is a stuffy fEMINIST
FZ was like many groundbreakers - outrageous, extremely hard-working, revolutionary, talented, capable of great creativity, and equally great ugliness.
pauline butcher`s striking description of frank zappa has him showing all the hallmarks of an out-and-out narcissist. this goes some way towards explaining why frank seemed so "complex", or even "contradictory"; when in actual fact frank zappa simply thought, said or did whatever the fvck he wanted. all the more surprising, then, that pauline (as a trained psychologist, no less) doesn`t mention his rather obvious clinical narcissism. perhaps grace slick of jefferson airplane put it best when she described frank zappa as "the most intelligent a*sehole I`ve ever met in my life".
I replied to this. I don't know where it's gone. I don't consider Frank was clincially narcissistic. Yes, he might have had an element of that but I imagine all stars carry it, too. But he never surrounded himself with adorers. When the GTOs told him, 'We love you Mr Zappa' he responded with, 'You little vixen you.' When an interviewer remarked fans seemed to think he was some kind of God, he replied, 'I am God to three people, my wife, Moon and Dweezil.'
@@paulinebutcherbird thanks for your reply, and fair enough. we`re all narcissistic to some degree, of course, and rightfully so: narcissism is not a clinical condition per se. however, I would argue that your examples do not necessarily preclude the possibility of a clinical case, either: a highly intelligent, manipulative narcissist would be well equipped to come up with the requisite answers that you cite. be that as it may, I have still enjoyed big parts of frank`s music for almost fifty years, and will continue to do so: narcissism, or not! all the best, g.
@@donkeyshot8472 I agree that Frank was narcistic to a greater degree than most of us, whether that was to a clinical level , I don't think so. Anyhow, I think we've covered it. Thanks for a healthy discussion.
I have a funny experience from college. Around mid 80s I found that a fellow student was A Flock Of Seagulls roady the day he told the class "I don't need this". We never saw him again. Apparently there were often female fans around the doors that I never noticed.
Except Pamela's book has been a best seller for over 20 years because it's about many rock stars and my book is mainly about Frank Zappa, sadly a much smaller, though dedicated, fan base
@@rayrecordings Well, you must have a book to write! I cannot imagine being a record producer in this day and age. In this country (UK) The BBC carry Frank's name on despite hardly anyone knowing who he is. They had a guy on Mastermind TV program who had Frank Zappa as his specialist subject and had some very difficult questions to answer, and BBC radio 4 featured him in their Great Lives series last week but it was very hackneyed stuff.
@@paulinebutcherbird Pauline, yes I am 58 and lived music in the 70’s and the 80’s when everything was authentic and an exciting discovery. I try to smooth down the dichotomy between that era and today by transmitting my passion for music to my students ( I teach at a modern music conservatory). It’s great to see 22-25 yo people loving the music of Frank, Yes, Genesis…And by reading books like your fantastic and emotional memoire.
@@rayrecordings Well, it was good meeting you here and thanks again for your kind words. I, too, am impressed by the number of videos on YT of young musicians in universities playing Frank's music and doing it fantastically well. Hopefully some of your women students might like my memoir too as I would like to reach the women's market. 🎶🎶
Being able to diffuse a situation can be a talent, or something he had learned. Magic is so hippie a word. We need more Zappas to work with emergencies
Anyone who has been in a band knows that band leaders can be tyrants when it suits them. Frank Zappa was an absolute genius composer and a superb guitarist.
@@paulinebutcherbird That's OK - there are so many who have analysed his music, but nobody who has seen what you have seen. I've ordered the book now & I'm waiting for it to arrive to the Åland islands in June (!).
@@paulinebutcherbird "You Can't do that on Stage Anymore" Volume 2 is an entire show from Finland. I guess they liked him enough for him to tour there.
My God @notbadfilms, the Robert Plant gift is a revelation...makes me think a lot of theories. So Robert gave Frank an Aleister Crowley book...not good, wow. Thank you so much for uploading this, GREAT STUFF. Mind if i sample this small bit for my channel for a video? Thank you
JCM, I made a mistake. It was not Robert Plant who gave Gail, not Frank, actually, the Aleister Crowley book, but Jimmy Page. Gail then gave it to Frank. I do make a correction at the top of these comments, but it's worth repeating. I think Jeff is busy on other things at the moment, so you may not get a reply.
Pauline...May i ask a question/...Many people want to know about the tunnels built that travelled to the house that Houdini once stayed in across the road...Some say the city later used them for storm water ...but it was said there was an elevator and the tunnels were not crude but were professionally cut and lit with a lighting system..Did you have any understanding of these tunnels.
Mike, I didn't have any knowledge or curiosity about those tunnels as I'm claustrophobic. I reluctantly went down to the basement from where the tunnel was supposed to go. The only person I could now ask is Sparky (GTO) who lived at the log cabin after we left. There is a documentary on UA-cam about the tunnels. No one seems to have found them, but there is enough rumour to suggest that something must have been there, but it was nothing to do with Houdini who aparently lived across the other side of Laurel Canyon for only a few months and even then was a tenant, not an owner. There is one other person I could ask if I can trace him. His mother owned the log cabin.
@@paulinebutcherbird That true about Houdini not livng across the road but being a house guest of the owner...I think or believe he rented a place not to far away but not direct acorss the road...I was watching a series on Laurel canyon 1964-1975 and the muso's that lived there and that matter of the tunnels arose....The question is what was there initial purpose..The house across the road was owned in the early decades by a very wealthy man and I wonder why you would tunnel between the properties when in those days the traffic would be nil...Thank you
Hello. I can't follow all this but did anyone ever mention me? I interviewed for Frank, his wife, and Wild mans was there and Moon-unit as a child. I heard there are tapes in the Zappa collection with my name on them. Thanks.
@pauline butcher bird my uncle guy mcelwaine used to manage the turtles. I just learned yesterday they started the mothers. I had a red guitar he recorded. IT got repossessed. Frank was a gentleman wild man threw a bottle and that made me leave. Gail was there. Everyone was cool except wild man. I have studied Camarillo hospital and it goes back to 1945 with Francis farmer.
@@artsahobby123 If Wildman threw a bottle then it would have been at their Woodrow Wilson house. The Turtles did not start the Mothers. You are very much on the wrong track. They joined the Mothers about four years after the Mothers were formed. Who were you working for when you got to do the interview? And where was it published? Who told you a copy was in the vault?
@@paulinebutcherbird Moon Unit and her brother told me they found tapes with my name on them. I was not working for anyone. My parents got me the interview. They would not give me the tapes. I asked for them.
I, too, disliked the Radio 4 play, and I remember cringing over the same part as Pauline. I thought about recommending it to my friend but decided not to because I didn't think it did the book justice. Great interview.
Thank you, TheWhippinpost. It was a 45 minute play so a lot to cram. I was surprised by the parts they chose. In its own terms, it was okay though and Pick of the Week chose an early scene as something worth listening to.
I think she's stumbled upon something... that Frank, though he would probably disagree, did approach music in a more clinical sense... that his pieces could have sounded cold and overly complex, were it not for the sake of the people he employed... if you look at Hot Rats, it started with a long electric blues violin figure and then that morphed into Peaches, which is obviously the centerpiece of the LP... AND willy the pimp, has Beefheart's stamp all over it... and I credit Shuggie Otis in bringing the former to life. With Ruth and Ian... and while Frank knew what he liked when he heard it, I think that there were people on that album that truly deserved a writing credit.
@pauline butcher bird certainly! I've read a lot about Frank, listened to it all and am a musician myself, of some note. I've written a 900 page book about my 16 years with a girl who was my best friend, bandmate, collaborateur and wife.. all before I lost her in the second month of her 35th year. I was sure we would make a mark. And I'm convinced that she still will. Luckily, I saved every bit of memorandum... my sentimental nature proved handy. We recorded and worked on about 100 songs as well ad lived a great life together... the kind I know few have had... Kari used to ask me what I would do when we got famous and I said, pretty much what I do now... maybe a bit more! Lol. This was our last song, to give you an idea of the level of our work ... thank you for your interesting take on Frank! ua-cam.com/video/HNnayiJLHqk/v-deo.html
Hot Rats starts with Peaches En Regalia. In 1969 it was startling to hear sounds like that even before you entered the rest of the album. What is the long electric blues violin figure you are referring to? Off the top of my head the only song that starts like that is Directly From My Heart to You on "Weasels..." which of course is not a Zappa composition.
@alancumming6407 Believe it or not, it was peaches that started as a long electric violin blues solo.. Frank was really good at editing and basically when he had a sixteen track tape machine, he would do things that other people simply couldn't at that time... Things that only Brian Eno surpassed him with. The era of multi track recordings go away back to a single called "sally go round the roses" in which a local producer hired a number of female singers to interpret these lyrics he had written, And also hired musicians as well... In all, he probably "auditioned" about 100 people in recording their ideas, and a lot of them were kept in "vine" form for this multi Track recording... Basically, he would record what they interpreted and make notes on what he liked and then make safety copies, Using Hey, click track generated by something reliable like a Hammond drum machine or a similar electronic device that would give consistent BPM clicks... And then the next people would come in and he would record and then make notes and then more safety copies, but only of their solo'd parts. ... And in the end he had a song that was basically organically composed... by OTHER people... but something he could put his stamp and publish it himself. If you look at that song's history, you'll see that there's a number of people that claim to have written/performed it or helped with that.... Zappa was kind of the same way... Like Steely Dan (who also used this method, hiring teams of musicians, all of whom had signed off on ever taking credit for what likely would be their own creative work; IE: Katy Lied Was an LP that Steely Dan members didn't actually even play on!), He liked to assemble bands of crack musicians to interpret the things he wrote, Which in embryo and in those days could be rather austere, with just some suggestions, a key center and maybe part of a "head".... Guys would come in and interpret and then they would also improvise. Shuggie Otis was one such, who apparently couldn't read music, so it's very likely his part was completely improvised... It was one such improvisation that inspired him to write the part that became the head of peaches... And basically, with the help of Ruth, he was able to compose the whole front "head" section and then make a loose solo section for guitar and such, and then the heavily syncopated section with the organ and marimba parts... (which bears Ruth and Ian's stamp every bit as much and as recognizable as Zappa's).... And that's pretty much the whole song. He discussed the creation and composition. I believe on an interview I heard on NPR a longtime ago.
Before you judge Frank Zappa, you must understand the times he lived in, what the culture was at the time, what he went through, and what his professional universe was like. Before he was a composer, he was a man. And if you are creating great things, you would naturally expect certain benefits not readily available to the common person. I don't know if a culture of free love and unrestrained sex still occurs in the world of rock music with new bands today. It's a pity his obsession with cigarette smoking cost him his life. Such a smart man, such a stupid habit
I'm here after a 40 year thing from a Valley Girl. He was before my time, but I love documentaries of past musicians. Saw an interview with his daughter Moon first and when she mentioned having a dad who wasn't home and growing up with se-x all around her I was deeply saddened. Now hearing this interview, it confirms everything the daughter said. This man wasn't a s-ex addict who poked any woman that walked. He was emotionally abusive to his wife and kids which was terrible.😠 I do not understand how women get trapped by men with such grimy character. He may have been a musical "genius", but like Kanye they destroy those closest to them with sadistic behavior.
The trouble is he also had a tender side, and he did give his wife the role of running his business, so perhaps that's why she stayed. Moon herself was transfixed with love for him despite seeing the pain he was causing her mother. Yes, Frank's womanising was extreme and it no doubt caused Gail gut-wrenching pain but if he didn't show her some love from time to time, I'm sure she would have left. That's the conundrum.
This was a fascinating interview! Thanks to you both :) I am a fan of Frank Zappa, and also Ian Anderson (Jethro Tull). I have read that Frank had wanted to speak with Ian before he died, and that Ian had heard that, but had been too scared to call Frank etc etc.....what is the truth there? Did Frank have anything to say to IA?
I wasn't there during Frank's last days but I do get feedback from those who were and it appears that Gail was a stern gatekeeper. I imagine that she would have let Ian Anderson through had he phoned because she remained a groupie to the end of her days!
Pauline, I’m really happy that you spoke about Frank’s lyrics so frankly (hah). I love his music a lot, but the ways he wrote about women really bother me and prevent me from enjoying the music more. I have also had the thought that he wrote terrible lyrics about men too, but what strikes me is that the power dynamic is always the same: gross, predatory men and dumb, objectified women. And he always seemed to take joy in “playing” those male characters. It’s certainly complicated and a huge point of debate, which I am up for. But I just wanted to tell you that I appreciate your confidence in bringing up a tough subject.
James, I appreciate your reply because most Zappa fans are protective for Frank's lyrics and complain when I voice dislike for his very contentious lyrics like 'Bamboozled by love' or 'Magdalena' . They maintain that Frank is merely highlighting what is going on in the world. I wonder why anyone can see those songs as entertainment. The usual comeback is 'you don't get it.' I then argue that we all have limits and Frank clearly had a limit on child abuse as he has no songs on the matter. I have a limit on women-abuse.
Frank was a product of his generation even though he was years ahead of his time. I’m 64 y/o and I can tell you that in the early 60s parents could beat the crap out of their kids and no one said a word. You can’t judge Frank by today’s standards. The 60s changed everything. 31:29
@@michaelrosenberg2030 Pauline was also a product of that time, and is appalled by some of Frank's lyrics. Plenty of people of their age would feel the same. It's not "today's standards", its the standards of that time too. I can and will criticize Zappa for some of his worst lyrics, and this is speaking as a fan as well.
@@michaelrosenberg2030 Michael, I wish I could agree with you but inevitably we can and do judge by today's standards - we don't approve of capital punishment and, as you mention, walloping a child, among a list of things that today are no longer acceptable. I agree with James Cerone. Frank criticised practically everyone so it's only right that he himself cannot be above criticism where criticism is due. We are criticising some of his lyrics, not the man.
Frank liked to pillory human stupidity, while at the same time being strangely compassionate about it. And the kind of female archetypes, as well as the male ones, that he made up lyrics about were all too common at the time. This was what he wrote about, and he was always upfront about the absurdity of it all.
I’m really quite curious about why Frank strongly believed that only one party could be polyamorous for the relationship to work. Given him and Gail were still on the verge of divorce a lot and he was also distant from her as Pauline described, I don’t know if her having flings without love as he did would have mattered, or if that was all an excuse for him being possibly controlling and possessive of women in his life.
I wonder this too. In reading Pauline's book I think there are times when Frank comes off as passive aggressive and controlling in a narcissistic manner. Yet in speaking to her and others about their interactions with Frank they seem to dispute this.
I do think I've given an unfair overall view of Frank and Gail's relationship. I've implied he brought home endless women but in fact there were four in all that I know of over the time of their marriage. When Gail rebelled and left him to live with her brother and there may have been other occasions, Frank chased after her each time. And then he trusted her to run his business which I cannot think of many men doing. He gave her status. One could argue that at least he was honest in his affairs. How many men who are unfaithful can own up to that?
It's because Frank Zappa was more of a traditional patriarch than a modern narcissist. In any patriarchal household, there can be multiple handmaidens, but only one patriarch. A narcissist is a serial abuser who exploits one person after another, discarding each victim before moving on. A patriarch has a place for each person in his life, and maintains them in that role for as long as they serve their purpose for him. Gail knew her purpose and served him well, and for that he supported her and their children, regardless of his broader interests outside their family.
@@paulinebutcherbird "One could argue that at least he was honest in his affairs. How many men who are unfaithful can own up to that?" It is my impression that most women are not at all interested in their partners' honesty concerning affairs.
@@nwogamesalert That is true. In Gail's case, she accepted Frank's infidelity on the road because that's what rock stars did. She advised other women not to marry rock stars because of this peril, so she knew the rules. But Frank took it further, bringing women home and I think this pushed Gail to her emotional and mental limits. It appears that when she rebelled, he caved in and chased after her. I was not there,, but from what I've learned from others who were there at the time, these other women for whom Frank considered leaving Gail, themselves flitted, realising what they were taking on. Frank said himself that Gail was the only woman who would put up with his roving eye and so, like many marriages, they stumbled on to the end.
I was sooo much waiting when she talked about cal schenkel that that was exactly the time captain beefheart did trout mask replica with frank producing and nothing? That was one of the reasons I wanted to listen to hear a little about the wolf. Oohhwwwoo ! Oh well good listen 🙏🏻
I realize back in the late 60's when Frank was saying his chauvinistic words to her, journalists still for the most part were honest and could be trusted by the populus. Also, universities welcomed debates and peoples personal views. Maybe he was ahead of his time though as colleges and universities poison young minds today, have no tolerance for any views other than the liberal view and have created a closed woke culture and uncomfortable place for many creative young people and this cancelling thing is horrible too. In the 60's people had many reasons to protest and it seemed as if the right or republicans were the old stodgy, anti freedom party. Well, what have we got now? Its totally swung the other way.
I'm glad to read your view about university education but it is not mine. What do you say about the protests by students (I assume you're American) against the Israeli bombardments in Gaza? They appeared to be totally aware and educated.
Frank was a complex figure. I love his music. But like many fans I struggle sometimes with his attitudes to women. The world moved on in the sixties and the emergence of feminism was a necessary movement towards greater equality between the sexes. He was a product of the time.
The interesting question is how he would have dealt with the Me-Too movement. I think he would have scorned that too, just as I do, so I wouldn't have minded that. I think he would have modified his views. Remember he was the only man I had met at that time who encouraged me to be a writer.
Very interesting as all of Pauline's interviews are. I maintain that Zappa's most creative period were 1977 until his death. His 60s and early 70s stuff is good but his late 70s and 80s stuff is just out of this world
Now isn't that interesting. I assume from your comment that you came into the Zappa world later on in his career. I make this statement because I've noticed fans seem to imprint on the album they are hooked by. So those who joined the fold after hearing Freak Out! and Absolutely Free tend to be scornful of later stuff saying it misses the humour of the original Mothers of Invention. I personally agree with you that Frank's creativity grew and grew, not that I like all of it but still . . .
@@paulinebutcherbird Interestingly I first discovered Frank through Freak Out! (around 15ish years after it was made) and then the second I heard was Apostrophe. After getting hooked I became a Zappa addict but I found musically and politically, things became more interesting with almost ever album. Whenever people ask me where to start, I usually recommend The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life
I read and enjoyed this book a number of years ago. But the paperback cover looked different. As for the gun, did anyone know if it in fact was loaded? It probably was. And did Frank just leave it in the pond the whole time he lived there?
The cover now looks different because it is a new edition. It has chapter titles to help you find you way to parts that interest you, it's re-constructed so all the Mothers stuff is together, ditto Gail, ditto GTOs, etc, some of the peripherals characters are taken out, there's a post-script to describe what happened to everyone after the book ended, there's a full transcript of my interview with Frank in 1988, and the narrative of my relationship with Frank and Gail is clearer. We don't know if the gun was loaded but Frank said it was a Colt 45. It would have been impossible to get the gun because although the pond was not deep, it was murky and full of algae. No one attempted to get it. I do wonder what happened when the bulldozers moved in to clear the land and the pond was cleared some time in the 80s or 90s. Don't forget we moved out shortly after this episode. We lived there from May 1968 to September 5 1968.
@@paulinebutcherbird Great to hear from you, Pauline. I can’t recall exactly how many years it’s been, but you previously responded to a comment I made regarding my appreciation of your book/memoirs.
@@paulinebutcherbird One of the things I remember from your book was that you had a crush on Ian Underwood for a while. Talk about scandalous! But as we know he ended up marrying Ruth, who I saw play with Frank a couple times. I’m 68. The first time I saw Mothers of Invention was October 1971 in Providence, R.I. It was quite a night. Frank and the band played close to three hours including the encore. Then two and a half months later I read about how he was badly injured after someone pushed him off the stage at London’s Rainbow. I was really quite shocked and concerned. I was a big fan and a guitar player to boot who appreciated Frank’s playing style. If I’m not mistaken I think the first time I saw your name in print was on the Uncle Meat album cover. At least that’s my best guess. Thanks for your reply, Pauline.
@@charleswinokoor6023 I'm not on the Uncle Meat album cover but a photo in the booklet that came with it, Frank with his usual teasing mode. I haven't seen it for years. In fact, I'm not sure I could even find it. I was in London with Frank when he was knocked off the stage and had tickets for the next night which of course never happened. Ian's friendship was so important in helping me survive all the bitchiness and upside down life I was living. You were very lucky to see that three-hour set as I think other concerts were often lucky to reach an hour.
@@paulinebutcherbird As you remember that concert in Switzerland and the bootleg is available on youtube right up to when the fire began and Frank calmly asking for people to leave in a orderly way... What is bizarre is that no more then 15 minutes prior to some idiot flicking a lit matchstick up to the paper mache decorations ,Frank was doing the sketch about the sofa and God and the celestial construction of the universe for this sofa....and he says 3 times...sheets of fire,sheets of fire,real sheets of fire.. Now I know this is out there but Frank was very much pushing the envelope at that time about religion and Switzerland being the home of the Catholic church(swiss guards)and the location being close to the old temple of Appollo....Strangely,later when they played the famous concert where he was pushed from stage he dropped that sketch or routine from the song list....Frank was not religious in the traditional church sense but there is one interview later in his life that he says he is religious...Do you think or believe that the fire freaked him out... that in a superstitious way he felt he had gone too far and he later recoiled in a sense from that aspect of his performances and shows and changed direction.
Liked this interview, more incite than the time I had a back and forth with her trying to pick her brain. I think she was pushing her book so might have been slightly cagey. Although over time my views on Zappa had changed and she was vaguely correcting some of my assumptions. However being older, I now say, unless you actually live with someone, you don't have a chance in hell of knowing much about them. After this interview I might say the people who did live with Frank weren't or couldn't have been clued in much better because he was so distant.
I'm intrigued. When did I do an interview with you and where was it published? It doesn't sound like me. There is some truth to what you say. Frank was closed in. He didn't want to reveal himself or let go. With his bands, he did the same - watched their antics and didn't get involved. Filmed them, recorded them and kept a distance. Yet I found him enchanting and although I could criticise him and see his faults, found him awe-inspiring - well, that is until Women's Liberation came along.
@@paulinebutcherbird I think I responded to a video where you were being interviewed. I remember the story about gun but you described it in less detail. I was on another channel and I do use other names. Not that I think of Frank all the time but I was probably still impressed as I was as a teen with some of his arguments centering around the PMRC debate. It was several years ago. I'm 52 and older now and my views are more refined. I would have to research it. It wasn't like we were talking in person, so I only assumed it was you. I'm pretty sure it was though but could easily be wrong online. Maybe my choice of words is throwing you off. Let me rephrase cagey, this interview is more in depth and detail. People from certain generations and backgrounds act a certain way. A lot of macho guys don't like some of the things I say. I'm not a feminist, I'm a realist, and there is a whole lot of posturing going on and facades. Man and woman are different but in many ways the same.
@@paulinebutcherbird Btw as best as I can tell so far it was 10 years ago. I really can't remember or curreently find anything. I'm wondering now if it was on another platform like facebook or here as well. I was looking for ideas for writing some songs about Laurel Canyon. I think i wound up writing one ha! Although it was inspired by a more cynical view of Laurel Canyon.
@@BILLYMORGAN1971 This conversation could go on and on, dealing with the different tributaries you've opened up. I am a realist, too, but also a feminist. I concur - men and women are different and these differences should always be acknowledged.
@@BILLYMORGAN1971 It was not difficult to be cynical about Laurel Canyon, especially after the Manson murders although of course they occurred in a different Canyon several miles off.
wowzerz this is fantastic listening I generally don't idolize people, but if i was forced to needing to admire at least one person to that extent, Frank would probably be my choice.
I'd say someone like Frank Zappa was more honest with women than most men. He could handle rejection whereas some can't and then in turn get nasty. There are blurred lines now and men are terrified of making their intentions clear, (which is usually just sex) and can complicate things even further. Men and Women are now weak. I get the feeling Frank would agree alot more with a feminist such as Camille Paglia than Kate Millet. Brilliant interview.
Thankyou for bringing Camille Paglia to my attention. I closed down feminist rhetoric some time back because of the constant mud-slinging back and forth. I don't know what Frank would have thought of her given when I was there, he thought Women's Liberation was all about dykes. I hope you're right. I hope he would have matured and acknowledged feminism's worthiness. The paradox is that, at that time, he was the only man to encourage me, a woman, to succeed as a writer, but then Frank was full of these contradictions.
@@paulinebutcherbirdI just thought, both Frank and Camille are Italian. President and Vice President, could you imagine? I really enjoyed your interview, Pauline. Thank you for your reply.
@@paulinebutcherbird 1:03.57 Or was I wrong? I just couldn´t believe that R.Plant HIMSELF gave Frank a Crowley-book.....I don´t think he was that involved with Crowley as his "guitar buddy"...
@@Rahoorkhuitable You are quite right. How did you know that about Robert Plant. I don't know how I got the name wrong but it was Jimmy Page who gave him the book. Now before I make the correction, would you affirm that Jimmy Page was into that kind of thing?
@@paulinebutcherbird I see myself like being in court with Jimmy Page Ok, let´s start: "Besides all the spiritual damage he´s caused me, I, Ch.A.Rath, AFFIRM that Jimmy Page was "into that kind of thing"....although, it must be said, that I wasn´t even near his astral body while he was interested!" We have to be correct here, Pauline. P.S.: That will cost you a case of beer, Robert !
I loved Zappa since I discovered him as a youth. His visceral guitar playing is celestial. It was ruined by discovering his shitty, spoiled and superior attitude to what was called Punk in the UK.
If I remember he liked some punk music and played some when he was a fraudulent DJ on BBC Radio 1. He also played the Bee Gees, Black Sabbath, Stravinsky and Howlin' Wolf so he liked an eclectic mix. I don't think your comments are a true reflection of his attitude towards anything.
@pauline butcher bird I don't think Frank was against punk rock, only that it has to be sincere... in tinseltown rebellion, he mentions punk kind of snidely... but that's about manufactured punk groups... because flower punk, one of zappas songs, could indeed be a precursor... also, I'm So cute, from sheik yerbouti... zappa also hated the velvet underground, the grandfather's of punk, or maybe they were just taking turns posturing... But the only music that was like the Mother's when he started would arguably be the Fugs.
This was an excellent interview. Pauline, if you don't mind please, did he jam with any of the more popular musicians of that time? Did Hendrix visit and did they ever play together? What about Beck etc? Any recollections?
Televin V, really you should read the book! But I'll be generous. The only group that Frank went to see while I was there was John Mayall and I can't remember without looking it up, which club it was in. And the only reason Frank went there was because John was staying at the log cabin with us. Frank had no interest in other rock stars. When two of the Pink Floyd visited, he took them to the studio and played his recently recorded stuff for them. There was no socialising. He did socialise with Mick Jagger and I have a whole chapter on him. Jeff Beck came with Rod Stewart to the house one night while Frank, Gail and I were at the studio with him. When we got back, Rod and Jeff were having a food fight in the kitchen. Frank walked through and ignored them. I've said this in the interview so I'm not telling you anything new. They also turned up at the studio when the GTOs were recording their album. Rod sings and Jeff plays on the album.
@pauline butcher bird yes, I heard you mention most of this in the interview. Thanks for responding. For a blues fan, you'd think he would have loved to hear John Mayall live. Then again, it seems like F.Z. was dismissive of most popular musicians except for a handful of them. Maybe it has to do with their drug/booze habits?
@@televinv8062 I can't answer the question with any knowledge. It might have been their drug problems. I never heard him listen to other people's music so I was always astonished when, in interviews, he was asked about other people's music and seemed to know all about it. I think you will find better answers than I can give from those interviews. When I admired Leonard Cohen's music and he decried it on the basis of it being silly love songs, I thought to myself, well, when have you ever heard Cohen's music. I never knew how that happened. Maybe someone else can help.
@@paulinebutcherbird Hej Pauline. I read somewhere that Frank called Jim Morrison a "buffoon" and also jumped on Morrison in another song. That was very very unfair. Morrison was an alcoholic and often behaved very badly, but he was a very intelligen person too. The Doors and Frank Zappa are the only music I listen to these days. Nothing else is up to their standard. Kudos to you.
Frank Zappa didn't watch TV, nor did anyone else in the house during the time I was there 1968-1971. I imagine as the children grew up, they imposed pressure on Frank to allow them to watch it and gradually by the time Moon and Dweezil were teenagers they were auditioning for parts in sit-coms on TV. Later, Frank spoke about watching CNN news and the bias and flaws in their broadcasting (as if no one else noticed.)
How many people who lived in the house In Laurel Canyon actually lived to a ripe old age? Not many. Manson, Zappa, Janice Joplan, Jim Morrison. What did they do to them there?
Looks like you've been reading conspiracy theories all over the web that a military connection was sinisterly involved. Look around at other rock stars who lived nowhere near the canyon and re-do your arithmetic.
I think he said, 'represents all the people who've died for us.' Raven gave no explanation other than that as far as I recall or is in my notes, and Frank didn't ask. As I describe in the book, he came again the next day when Frank was on tour and Gail, in her brave way because she was very brave, dealt with him.
It is well known that Frank had so many women he started a all female band called the GTO's these women helped Frank's wife in the raising of his children Frank's career came first he spent half the year on the road playing concerts having sex with groupies
A few sweeping assumptions made here. Frank started the GTOs because he was interested in the freak scene in Los Angeles and considered it more genuine than the flower power scene in San Francisco. The GTOs represented his attempt to put that view forward. At the time, Frank had one child, Moon Unit. Frank was not alone with his interest in groupies. They were everywhere in 1968/69 and every musician and roadie on tour took advantage.
I answered this once but it seems to have disappeared. I've always been a Zappa fan also I've worked as a graphic artist since 1981 I was a young art student when I met Cal. We talked about. Zappa's music Cal's cover illustrations and Ann Arbor life in the 70s.
@paulinebutcherbird lots of experience since childhood. Absolutely no disrespect or slight intended. All those I know personally will readily agree with this observation.
Moon Zappa wrote an auto biography. So I watched her interviews to promote her book, which led me to a documentary about Frank in 1971 (the year I was born) where she appears as a toddler. Here’s some thoughts on this documentary: Hey- here’s the star of the show! Living in a mess and never even wears a shirt- and heres his kids. Always naked. As children of hippies, my siblings and I were like refugees. All we wanted were some real clothes and an actual meal. Poor Moon, crawling on the floor naked while her Dad ignores her and puts an industrial vacuum cleaner on a rando lady’s tits. Just another Tuesday afternoon. So neglectful and inappropriate. And where’s lunch? Frank got to go to the taco stand. Bragging he made enough money being in a rock band to buy tacos. But what about his kids? They weren’t at the taco stand. What did they eat that day? And here’s some women- They were in their own band too (The GTO’s). At least this doc Shows they actually existed. (Though at the time, women couldn’t even have their own bank account). Thank you Moon. Your new autobiography book makes me feel seen. As I’m sure other Gen X raised by hippies in the 70s and 80s feel. Yes, our creative parents were interesting. But these people didn’t really care about their children and should not have had them. I think we were fashion accessories, like a naked baby on your hip instead of a Prada Bag. Another scene, Another random lady that isn’t his mom , wearing an amazing all red mini skirt ensemble, teaching naked toddler Dweezil how to say the word “water” by showing him the pool it’s a miracle he didn’t drown in. Maybe us Gen X babies were just a by product of having the amazing hippie sex the Boomer Hippies couldn’t shut up about. Hippie Parents, Sorry the 50’s were so uptight you had to torture us 20 years later by overcompensating how cool you were. And here Gen X still are, having to live life half a century later in this future our “Rock Star” King Baby Boomer parents didn’t prepare us for and don’t have to live in. Because these selfish people forced us here as an afterthought.
@@DameDarcy999 However, I think Moon's book is harsh on both her parents because she has written about 50 years living with them and had to leave out happy times. Here's my view of Gail and Moon when Moon was four years old. 'Dweezil still slept in sizeable chunks but Moon, with whom I had a neat little relationship and for whom I’d developed a real fondness, would keep going all night. Gail always sided with her, no matter how foolish her desires or how outrageous her needs. She treated her little daughter as an adult, listening to her opinions with apparent seriousness and pretending to be guided by them. As a result, Moon interrupted whenever she pleased, contradicted and put Gail in her place, and Gail would simply laugh and praise her spirit.' Taken from my own memoir which covers four years.
Holy crap man you guys need to get over and listen to weird scenes from laurel canyon everybody now knows what that whole scene was all about and as much as some of us love frank we all know military complex kids all just happened to get famous 🤔 government conspiracy theories or is that conspiracy facts
Wendy, that theory is nonsense. Take any group of people, lawyers, bricklayers, students, priests, and you will find in their family tree connections with the military because the military at the time was one of the biggest employers. The whole theory which has caught on, is another example of conspiracy theories on the internet.
Ahh you are the orange hair guy, yeah Zappa was nice...i know that his best friend was the black saxofonist, they were like 2 characters in scenario jajaja Ohh and now i see your face, you loved zappa jaja that's good, zappa has a big heart but he died of an horrible prostate cancer.
@@paulinebutcherbird you dont know zappa...his BEST friend was the black singer, they were like a dupla and the mothers were a mafia that laugh very much. ZAPPA SAYED THAT BECAUSE HE REALLY LOVES HIS WIFE, IM NOT IDIOT; YOU DONT CARE ABOUT ZAPPA!! GET OUT!! NO ME DENUNCIES O TE DENUNCIO Y LAS VAS A PASAR MAL, NUNCA TE DIJE NADA MALO FALSO, DEJA DE APROVECHARTE DE FRANK ZAPPA O SUS FANS NO SE LO MERECE FUERAAAAAA admite que te gusta la plata, en serio nadie se hace problema sobre eso, no te van a mirar mal
I am really uncomfortable about this book. It's essentially a revisionist personal history. Pauline was literally at the centre of the counter culture freak scene but saw no drugs or free love. Bizzarely reactionary in tone and content. Her pinned comment adresses an issue that I found very distasteful. On publication Gail was still alive. Referring to Frank's sex life is not right. Now this he only had four affairs nonsense is pointless and weirdly inappropriate. Who cares how many times he had sex with other women. Maybe they had an agreement. Many powerful and famous artists are married but have physical relationship outside of marriage. And he was operating in the era of free love and openness. A Laurel Canyon court probably resembled the court of Henry VIII. What is far more interesting is that Frank rejected the normalized drug use of the time. That must have cost him money at the time. Going against the grain.
Winston, I saw no drugs or free love because the log cabin was like a monastery. Only Calvin, who was housed in an annex part of the house with its own separate entrance, had anyone from outside the house sleep with him. Bizarre as it seems, given Frank's attitude towards sex, no one indulged. You are correct, Gail was still alive when the book was published and the only revelation I make in the book relates to the story she told me, and in that one there was no sex, the girl chose Gail over Frank. These other three I have not spoken about until after Gail died. This is what happens when you're famous and after you die. How else would we know about John F Kennedy's affairs, or a list of other celebrities' private affairs? Finally, my story is not revisionist but based on weekly letters I wrote home to my family and friends wishing them to experience this weird world I found myself in so different from anything English. My mother kept the letters in a shoebox for 40 years. I could not have written the memoir without them.
Pauline is an absolute treasure, with amazing insights into Frank’s character. Well done with this excellent interview. 🙏
Thank you, Philip. I appreciate your taking the time.
@@paulinebutcherbird You are very welcome, Pauline. Looking forward to reading your book. 🌻
@@ganazby Thank you, Philip. If you have any comments or questions, let me know.
With shit zappa fans, its like with mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them shit 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
@@paulinebutcherbird Was that your dildo that Moon mentioned being left around?
I wish to correct an impression I've given in this interview that Frank brought an army of women to his house. This is false. To my knowledge, over twenty years, there were four and given Frank toured six months of most years we're talking over ten years. Frank trusted Gail above everyone else to run his business which indicates he held her in high esteem and she enjoyed that status. Frank clearly appreciated her. I wish I had said more to indicate this.
Thank you for expanding on this and providing additional context.
Loved your book. Best I’ve read in ages. Well done.
I’m a fan of Franks music yes but I’m making an objective comment about the quality of the writing I just could not put it down.
Also a very classy statement here to clarify your respect for the family.
Gives the book even more credibility.
@@JeffStarr well done bravo!
Fantastic interview. You have a gift Sir. Please do more and pleasure to meet you here.
Zappa was last shit
@@robinbolton6064 Thank you Robin. Very nice of you.
Very insightful and interesting interview. When she said about reading Moon Z’s book and you replied, “Fer sure!” Cracked me up…Nice one. Thanks.
Thank you for watching and taking time to leave a comment. If you enjoyed the interview you will likely love Pauline’s book.
I won Frank's 'Chunga's Revenge' album at 14 in a radio competition and it blew me away....from there I checked him out.
Such a great composer and a really fine guitarist. 😃. Genius!
I wish I'd talked more about his music and the jam sessions at the house.
Nice one! I lucked into a copy of Mothermania at my GRANDMOTHER'S HOUSE WHEN I WAS TEN... I played it... was amused... then a little bored... but I took it home... and by age 11 I was a fan. Zappa did pretty cool stuff with a bunch of garage musicians, and of course Ian and Ruth... I was already digging on a lot of prog by that time, and zappa didn't seem to know if he was prog or not... in fact... he made fun of just about every prog band, and unplugged Rick Wakeman in the middle of a solo, he said rock is dead at every show... he seemed to be ok with jazz... and avante... I'm going to dub what frank played... right here... right now... as mercury blues. Because he played with the stuff all the time as a kid, it causes madness... and a lot of his guitar work seems to be extended blues, and not jazz... so there. Mercury Blues.
@@seansweeney3532 You know more about Frank's music than I do. It's wonderful that you logged on at 11 years of age but what you mean about Mercury Blues I don't know. Perhaps other fans do.
@pauline butcher bird Well it's kind of a little play on words but more direct... There was a song in the fifties called mercury blues... And it's been covered numerous times by rock and country artists... But I was being so bold as to name Frank's style of music after the song... And the reason being... The popular British trope of the mad hatter... Well that existed before Alice-in-Wonderland... The reason Hatters went mad... Was because they used and handled mercury often and every day... And a little mercury goes a very long way... When it's in your bloodstream... And that's why they were mad. I believe it is referred to as mercury psychosis... But it's very brutal to your nervous system. And highly toxic... Though interestingly enough they used to give it to patients suffering from syphilis... They gave them these treatments of Mercury and iodine I believe, Both deadly poison in their pure form... And have a physical/mental effect upon the people they were administering it to. I suppose it was a trade-off between long-term syphilis and the problems associated with that, and the mental state the cure left you in... But back to my original wandering point... That I call his music Mercury blues... Because he plays standard and extended Blues figures on the guitar, most of the time... but using bizarre truncated rhythms and compositions around it... That being the madness or the mercury in mercury blues... They say that jimmy hendricks played basic straight blues in a similar way.... They say that hendricks was nothing but a blue's player but he just played blues from mars.. And here we have another planet... So it seems like there's a another overlying aspect to the label... Jimmy's from Mars and Frank's from Mercury.... lol
@@seansweeney3532 That is an amazing reply, and interesting too with the stuff about mercury which somewhere in my mind I learned but had forgotten. Thank you for taking the time.
I agree with Pauline! You're a great interviewer. I immediately went to your channel afterwards to see who else you've interviewed and there are only a few others. Please make more!
Thank you very much! I have new interviews planned so please subscribe for future content.
Seconded. I hope it will be Moon Zappa!!!!!
Shit ugly zappa died like a miserable bum at the end 🤣 🤣
Zappa was an arrogant asshole and ignorant
@@paulinebutcherbird So do I! But also the other Zappa children's thoughts and memories would be interesting to hear about!
I just got Moon's book yesterday but when I was looking to order it I saw this book not knowing who this lady so coincidentally your video here showed up in my you tube so now I'm definitely going to get her book . Thanks for posting !
Wonderful!
Carlr8061, thank you for reading my memoir. I am presently reading Moon's book and note that the traumas and emotional upheaval Moon speaks about, all have their seeds in my book, ie Frank's remoteness and womanising, Gail's hot and cold personality and erratic parenting, though I did see the best side of Gail's mothering skills before it seems she became cruel which I imagine worsened as her pain deepened.
I read the book last year and loved it. Pauline is a great storyteller! 😊
Thank you ffst739. Any likelihood of a review? 🫤
@@paulinebutcherbird I'm not as good of a writer as you. 😊 Wish you the best!
@@ffsf739 Okay. We'll still be YT friends.
Zappa was filth
A boring asshole
With shit zappa fans, its like with mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them shit 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
i am a huge fan of zappa - my music was influenced so much by his mentality actually - but i wanted to say that Pauline is a wonderful woman - i look forward to reading her book and it's just amazing what i've read from her online and reviews of the book. It's people like Pauline that i am just glad to share this planet with when it is a deep dark harsh world out there. I hope Pauline knows she has made an amazing book and great interview here - Beautiful woman and as a zappa fan - more in WHO he was, i cannot explain to you how much i appreciate your work -
Thank you for the very nice comment. Pauline is amazing and has been extremely kind to me as well. I highly recommend purchasing her book and please purchase the paperback as the kindle format is the older version. Here is an amazon link: amzn.to/3KPQz3w
Bryandass368, thank you for your very kind response to my interview. I hope you enjoy the book as much. It sounds like you are a musician. I hope you've taken on board that Frank was a brilliant businessman, able to make money from his work when no one played it on the radio which, at that time, was the only outlet.
@@paulinebutcherbird i feel so starstruck with this response from you Pauline thank you for it! I want to word this right - My big interest in Frank Zappa is actually who he is much moreso than his music and art though i have great appreciation for that too. I am quite like you in that it is his mind -his way - that is so valuable - His business mentality is to me his most interesting part of his genius and I've spent the last 15 years flopping all over like a fish out of water in the world of corporate art, learning some hard lessons in business.
I cannot lie - i am only now about to start my 'new life' with my independent art as my business but i have been planning it for a very long time. And alike u i am a writer and my first big product is indeed a book (which also advertises my music hehe) oof this message is turning into a book itself ! Your being able to write this book is so inspirational - thank you again -
I am very friendless at the moment quite because of the 'business mentality' or perhaps bc of other reasons but i love how when Frank Zappa was asked about why he works alone so much he said "it's because i care" - i found the same goddamn thing. And on an interview he was asked about friendship and in his zappa humor/ruthless logic said "a friend is a guy who wants to borrow money LOL" - i understand a lot about him and u are and have helped me plenty. May you be blessed, you beautiful woman ! Take care !
@@bryandass368 Thank you for that. I hope your business skills help you with your venture. Good luck with it.
I read the book and wrote to her after finding some other interviews with her, and she wrote back to thank me.
No, thank you, Pauline... It was a wonderful portrait of an insane and strange time...
I'm reading the book now and I love it so far! I'm so glad I stumbled onto this channel, thank you!
Thank you for watching and taking the time to leave such nice feedback.
Update: finished the book. Its very well written and Pauline's story is fascinating, to say the least. She really paints an amazing picture of the inner workings of Frank's life at the log cabin and the other house. The GTO'S, the rock stars that visit Frank, and all of the craziness are all on display.
@@MrTgrewell Thank you, Todd. Very nice of you.
In the late '60s & early 70s, I had a school friend who was an avid music fan like myself. One day he came out that his Auntie worked for Frank Zappa in America. Honestly I did not really believe him until many years later I read Franks auto biography & he mentioned this lady, Pauline Butcher. My friend was Stephen Butcher [ sadly now deceased], son of Englishman John Butcher who emigrated to NZ . Stephen would always have the best & latest music albums,[ Let it Be & Woodstock Set] whether from Pauline or not, not sure. Cheers from NZ.
How nice to read your comment which I've only just seen. Stephen was indeed my nephew, the son of my brother, John Butcher. Both, as you say, sadly died, Stephen tragically young. Frank's book is of course a must for all Zappa fans, but he leaves out a huge amount of daily detail which one can find in mine and not shown in other Zappa books, from getting up to going to bed, composing at the piano, rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more. Finally, I wish to add a thank you to Jeff Starr for giving me this platform.
Excellent! Thanks for posting.
Thank you for watching!
Zappa was filth
Pauline is a gem; I absolutely love how she tells her stories and memories!
50 year Zappa fan, this was great 🎉
Absolutely absorbing watching and listening to this interview. Pauline is a lovely woman with a very gracious way about her and fascinating to hear of the time she spent with FZ. Having been a huge fan of Frank's music and thereby of Frank himself, it's both fascinating and shocking to get these deeper insights into the kind of person he was. Not wanting to be judgmental either, I find myself questioning how the image gets built up that's quite far removed from the reality. I still listen to Frank's music, at least those parts that first attracted me to it and continue to be enthralled. I just bought Pauline's book too. Looking forward to getting that tomorrow. Thanks.
Arthur, thank you for wanting to read my book. I'm concerned in this interview I don't give enough of the positives about Frank and hopefully you'll find those when you read it.
Lovely lady! I have always felt that Frank was not all cold; a complicated person in his own way, but not evil or cold. Very talented and a true genius. I mean, think about it: he was self taught!
Indeed, I have spoken to other women who worked closely with Frank in later years in similar roles to myself, and they also speak of his kindness and gentleness combined with his quietness and stillness and they too felt extreme fondness for him.
”Weird scenes inside the canyon” by David McGowan is a great book to learn about why all those musicians from all over the States and Canada ended up in Laurel Canyon!
Thanks for the recommendation.
That book is full of conspiracy theories, in particular that some kind of mysterious military connection brought them there and knocked them out one by one. The reality is that if you took any group of people at that time, say bricklayers, lawyers, doctors, hospital porters, you would find a military connection in their families because the military was the biggest employer at that time. I could go on, but this is sufficient for now.
@@paulinebutcherbird Although that is a fair point and at first I thought that too. However, the positions the parents of these figures held were very high up in the military, not just the everyday military personnel.
@@openvoice How does that make a difference? Frank Zappa's father was not high up in the military. Who among all those rock musicians had a father who could influence things?
@@paulinebutcherbird Yes he was high up. Okay, you need to do some reading. There is plentiful information on numerous figures. You could start with the book recommendation "Weird scenes...."
Frank probably knew more about music than most. Gone way way too soon. Thanks for the music 🎸
Wonderful interview. Thank you
Thankyou, Maria. Kind of you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Seems like Frank was upfront and honest about what he wanted from people and was respectful if they refused to give him what he wanted. Anything beyond that would've been a waste of his time, which he seemed to view as something very valuable that he didn't have all that much of.
Heh. Might want to read a bit more about him. He was a great musician but a flawed human being. Said some very ugly things about people that were once close to him that were completely out of line.
I think that's a fair summary of Frank Zappa!
@@brianhammer5107 My book is the only to give Frank's daily home life from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles and more.
Thanks for this. I am a huge Zappa fanatic (and a guitarist) and saw him live in NY and the surrounds many times from late 70’s to mid-80’s or so. I also have read several books and watched several movies and even was a contributor to the Alex Winter Kickstarter campaign which involved digitizing tons of mixed media in his “vault” and ultimately resulted in making the Doc film “Who the F*%% is Frank Zappa”, which I was somewhat disappointed in, but that’s a conversation for another place and time. Of course I have also poured over the treasure trove of Zappa material on YT. With that backdrop, I just wanted to say I am looking forward to reading the book and felt the author was very well spoken, interesting, articulate and concise. Regardless as to whether she loved or hated his music or even has much musical knowledge at all, she offers another unique perspective on the complex divisive genius of FZ. I will say that his view of woman expressed in many of his songs, is undoubtedly those he was most exposed to on the road and as a working musician in the 60’s and 70’s, including the so-called groupies. And as was suggested, he poked fun at everyone not just woman. Cheers!
How did you feel when you prowled round the Vault in Frank Zappa's house. Even thinking about how the contents had to be moved makes me feel sad.
@@paulinebutcherbird I did not lay foot in the vault. I was very happy to be a part of helping to preserve his documented legacy.
@@adamkrauss303 I can imagine it must have been consoling to help in the Winter film. I too was underwhelmed by the film but, as you say, that's part of another thread. Thank you for your kind words about my contribution to the Zappa world.
Without the shit ugly zappa, the music World would be much better 😂
With shit zappa fans, its like with mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them shit 🤣 🤣 🤣
Oh man! Ive got to check this book out! Zappa was a musician's musician. People who understand the complexity and originality of his work know what a genius he was, and of course he was very interesting personally as well. Can't wait to read this book.
I've read it, it's a GREAT book!
It is my story, but reveals Frank's home life not shown in other books.
Great interview, thanks!
Thank you for watching!
Fantastic book! Highly recommended to Zappa fans. Pauline’s story is a fascinating one.
Moon Unit Zappa just released a book on the 20th called “Earth to Moon”. I highly recommend it. She talks about the family and how Gayle did not follow Frank’s wishes after his death.
@Numb217 I invite everyone to watch my interview with Moon Unit Zappa where we discuss her book and life in detail:
ua-cam.com/video/WFia_ErgENw/v-deo.html
@@JeffStarr Thank you!
I have Moon’s book on order. In the meantime I’m bingeing on videos with Moon out promoting the book. Including an excellent one on this very channel. I’m so soaking up a bunch of Frank Zappa content elsewhere. That’s how I ended up here. I read Pauline’s book many “moons” ago and loved it. Moon even promoted the book on Ahmet’s podcast - that’s how well they’re getting along these days. I just saw Dweezil play on 8/18 so it’s been a Zappa August!
* Just to clarify, Moon was promoting her own book, not Pauline’s, on Ahmet’s channel. *
I grew up in the Pomona Valley and live in the IE west of I-15. He's quite a legend around the area. My half sister's late father lived a few blocks north of his Cucamonga studio on Archibald.
That's interesting. If only Frank had lived to know about that. During his lifetime he appears to have been scorned in that area.
Great interview, I hadn’t heard any of these stories before, I’ll have to check out her book!
Jeff, Do be aware, if you read my memoir, that it is my story but reveals Frank's home life not shown in other books, from getting up to going to bed, rehearsing with the Mothers of Invention, composing at the piano, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more.
Reply
It’s a great read! You can find the on Amazon using this link: amzn.to/40dMKuJ
With shit zappa fans, its like with mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them shit 😂😂😂
Fascinating interview, thanks for sharing x
Thank you, John. I did interview Frank myself in 1988 and they are on You Tube in five parts: parenting, avengelism, composing, party hats, one last question.
@@paulinebutcherbird Cool, your book dropped on my doormat this morning!
@@fastcakes Great. Happy reading.
Enjoyed this great interview Pauline. Im a fan of you and your book and have read it a couple of times. Hope ya return to FB soon.
Ah, Tony, how kind of you to notice. In fact I'm just off to post there now but I find FB's new Meta format almost impossible to use. It's all about advertising and promotion and very confusing.
So much for Zappa. He and his music were mainly a source of humor for me, and mild recognition of the technical prowess. There is nothing there that nourishes me year after year. He was valuable in pointing out the flaws of business and government.
The stature of Frank Zappa, I think, is that he could play in every sphere, doo-wop, classical, blues, rock'n'roll and jazz, and not one of these was specific to his music. There are few artists that could cover such a wide range and include satire and political commentary as well.
Totally agree
He is completely underrated as a guitar virtuoso who had amazing musical ideas,,, his lyrics were incomprehensible to many and offensive to many others,, but his gifts as a Pure Guitar player were undeniable...
I wish to add that I had a lapse of memory while answering one of the questions incorrectly. I said somewhere, though I can't now find it where on the tape, that Robert Plant had given Frank a book by Aleister Crowley, but it wasn't Robert but Jimmy Page. The trouble with audio is, you can't alter it! Lt. Garber below pointed this out to me. Top marks to him.
Thank you very much for this clarification!
I knew that wasn't true...
Frank had countless great songs and song titles, but among my top few favorites is "Variations on the Carlos Santana Secret Chord Progression." Hilarious. Santana was supposedly pretty pissed off about it!
Well, I started listening to Cuban and other Latin jazz sometime ago and and quickly thought "oh this is where CS stole all his ideas" LOL
Pauline Butcher is a wonderful writer and provides the best insight into Frank Zappa.
Thank you Stephen for you compliment.
@@paulinebutcherbird You've inspired me to become a better writer. Three books published and one about to be.
@@drstevemarson Okay, come on, give me the titles, and what are they about?
@@paulinebutcherbird First, I am a retired professor: Elder Suicide: Durkheim's Vision; The Routledge Handbook of Social Work Ethics and Values; Crime in Creole Countries and in press Statistics in Criminal Justice Today (Textbook). My journal articles have become playful since reading your work
@@drstevemarson And with a brain like that, you appreciate Zappa.
Got the e-book years ago.. a GREAT read. Pauline is the hippest.
Thank you. Just seen this.
Just saw Stinkfoot Orchertra in SantaCruz a few nights ago. Very impressive! Ray White was singing with them. 14-piece band . 6 horns all reading from charts . They covered a wide range of Franks music . It was as good as Dweezils stuff. I love FRANK!!!! I have all of his music and still listen to it almost daily.
Hopefully, you read books about him?
@@paulinebutcherbird yep
@@paulinebutcherbird Oh yea. I love Frank and i love his music. Seen him several times from 73 through 88. Dweezil many times too. Chip off the old block. Bit too serious but incredible none the less. Dad would be proud!
@@paulinebutcherbird I listen to Bob talk about him on youtube . Very cool. You too! :)
@@paulinebutcherbird Read the official FZ book. any others you suggest?
Sounds like he had Asperger's Syndrome, in the genius spectrum. About as hard to give a cheery nod to and expect one back as from Lou Reed or Mark E Smith. Love the way he seemed to be tuning into something divine and astral when he lit rip with the guitar. Maybe its written but it sounds entirely natural.
This hint of Apserger's Syndrome keeps being mentioned. I think it's stretching a point to suggest Frank had a mental illness. He showed no signs of the symptoms, other than his unwillingness to socialise and perhaps his obsessive work style. For me, he doesn't have enough of the symptoms to include him in the category.
@@paulinebutcherbird Fair enough, you were close to him for long enough. I only saw him the once and even then only his back, as he preformed the whole gig with his back to us (London, 1985-ish).
A lot of his music was written out, but his ripping guitar solos for the most part were completely improvised. He talks his improvisational philosophy in this interview: ua-cam.com/video/A6ZzTr-a2L8/v-deo.htmlsi=ZOD6VUIRH1STlO3h
6:15 "Laurel Canyon was like a fairyland." I can only imagine. I later lived on N. Fairfax just a few blocks from the foot of Laurel Canyon Blvd in '79 and I WISH I could have lived there in the '60s. Talk about a near-utopia for a young person. My brother and I met a guy in W. Hollywood (I think he was gay as he picked my brother up hitchhiking)
but he gave us 3-4 boxes of 8 x 10 glossies of the Turtles taken while on tour in 1966, like, in bus stations/airports, etc. I held onto them for years but eventually tossed them. Wish I hadn't.
Social context is everything and the context of today is the opposite of the context of then.
This was a great interview and very insightful of a brilliant artist’s life and times through her experiences.
I am committed to getting the book.
Thank you, DXR. There is a lot more in the book of course that I could not cover in the interview.
@@paulinebutcherbird You are quiet welcome...looking forward to receiving my copy. It should be a great read for me.
@@MrDXRamirez Thank you, and I welcome questions and comments, especially from discerning readers. Do be aware, it is my story but reveals Frank's home life not shown in other books.
Context has nothing to do with it. FRANK had the RIGHT VIEWS about wo-MEN. MEN are the leaders and wo-MEN are to OBEY. This is in the bible. Frank said he was atheist, but his behavior was very biblical, especially his views about wo-MEN. God bless Frank, he did NOTHING wrong. To tell you the truth, Pauline is a stuffy fEMINIST
FZ was like many groundbreakers - outrageous, extremely hard-working, revolutionary, talented, capable of great creativity, and equally great ugliness.
NOPE. Nothing ugly about a MAN who knows wo-MEN were created to serve & please
@@josephesposito3499 Josephine, you astound me.
This is fascinating information as I've been a fan almost from the first album.
pauline butcher`s striking description of frank zappa has him showing all the hallmarks of an out-and-out narcissist. this goes some way towards explaining
why frank seemed so "complex", or even "contradictory"; when in actual fact frank zappa simply thought, said or did whatever the fvck he wanted. all the more
surprising, then, that pauline (as a trained psychologist, no less) doesn`t mention his rather obvious clinical narcissism. perhaps grace slick of jefferson airplane
put it best when she described frank zappa as "the most intelligent a*sehole I`ve ever met in my life".
I replied to this. I don't know where it's gone. I don't consider Frank was clincially narcissistic. Yes, he might have had an element of that but I imagine all stars carry it, too. But he never surrounded himself with adorers. When the GTOs told him, 'We love you Mr Zappa' he responded with, 'You little vixen you.' When an interviewer remarked fans seemed to think he was some kind of God, he replied, 'I am God to three people, my wife, Moon and Dweezil.'
@@paulinebutcherbird thanks for your reply, and fair enough. we`re all narcissistic to some degree, of course, and rightfully so: narcissism is not
a clinical condition per se. however, I would argue that your examples do not necessarily preclude the possibility of a clinical case, either: a highly
intelligent, manipulative narcissist would be well equipped to come up with the requisite answers that you cite. be that as it may, I have still enjoyed
big parts of frank`s music for almost fifty years, and will continue to do so: narcissism, or not! all the best, g.
@@donkeyshot8472 Glad we got that sorted. Thanks.
@@donkeyshot8472 I agree that Frank was narcistic to a greater degree than most of us, whether that was to a clinical level , I don't think so. Anyhow, I think we've covered it. Thanks for a healthy discussion.
What a lovely creature.
Second time I watch this whole podcast so I think it's time for me to subcribe to your channel ! Done ! Cheers from Quebec ! 😊
Awesome, thank you!
Most won't get this, that's okay. Frank was a true genius. A true genius is impossible to fully understand.
I agree with that.
Yes met him briefly and knew people who worked with him...he was truly genius!
I have a funny experience from college. Around mid 80s I found that a fellow student was A Flock Of Seagulls roady the day he told the class "I don't need this". We never saw him again. Apparently there were often female fans around the doors that I never noticed.
No idea what you're talking about!
What an excellent interview
Thank you, The Fierce And The Dead. Jeff is a very good interviewer.
Wonderful interview - I could listen to Ms. Butcher tell stories all day. And to this Yank she sounds like royalty.
Ahhh! Emlizardo, you've made my day start with a smile.
Pauline...
I bought your book when it first came out. It's a fantastic read. On a par with Pamela's first book.
Except Pamela's book has been a best seller for over 20 years because it's about many rock stars and my book is mainly about Frank Zappa, sadly a much smaller, though dedicated, fan base
@@paulinebutcherbird But beautifully written and very informative about your time with Frank and co.
@@bigtone1348 Thank you Uncle Rhebus.
Book is amazing, one of the top 3 Zappa related books ever. I ve read it last year and totally loved it.
Thank you rayrecordings. What does your name mean? That you make recordings?
@@paulinebutcherbird indeed. I am a ( seasoned:) record producer and been a huge fan of Frank for my entire life
@@rayrecordings Well, you must have a book to write! I cannot imagine being a record producer in this day and age. In this country (UK) The BBC carry Frank's name on despite hardly anyone knowing who he is. They had a guy on Mastermind TV program who had Frank Zappa as his specialist subject and had some very difficult questions to answer, and BBC radio 4 featured him in their Great Lives series last week but it was very hackneyed stuff.
@@paulinebutcherbird Pauline, yes I am 58 and lived music in the 70’s and the 80’s when everything was authentic and an exciting discovery. I try to smooth down the dichotomy between that era and today by transmitting my passion for music to my students ( I teach at a modern music conservatory). It’s great to see 22-25 yo people loving the music of Frank, Yes, Genesis…And by reading books like your fantastic and emotional memoire.
@@rayrecordings Well, it was good meeting you here and thanks again for your kind words. I, too, am impressed by the number of videos on YT of young musicians in universities playing Frank's music and doing it fantastically well. Hopefully some of your women students might like my memoir too as I would like to reach the women's market. 🎶🎶
Great book!!! I've often wondered about that Raven guy. Where'd he end up I wonder.
None of us know except that he came from San Diego and had travelled up.
Being able to diffuse a situation can be a talent, or something he had learned. Magic is so hippie a word. We need more Zappas to work with emergencies
Debra, it's unusual to come across a female Zappa fan. I do believe you are the first one out of 500+ comments to do so!
Anyone who has been in a band knows that band leaders can be tyrants when it suits them. Frank Zappa was an absolute genius composer and a superb guitarist.
I agree and wish I'd spoken more about his music.
@@paulinebutcherbird That's OK - there are so many who have analysed his music, but nobody who has seen what you have seen. I've ordered the book now & I'm waiting for it to arrive to the Åland islands in June (!).
@@Krabadaque I looked up Alan islands as I had no idea where they were. Finland, how interesting. Many Zappa fans there?
@@paulinebutcherbird "You Can't do that on Stage Anymore" Volume 2 is an entire show from Finland. I guess they liked him enough for him to tour there.
@@alancumming6407 And then you came second in EuroVision competition. Not that it's got anything to do with anything on this thread, but still . . .
Awesome, thank you
There were some excellent questions asked.
Great job.
Thank you very much!
Totally agree.
My God @notbadfilms, the Robert Plant gift is a revelation...makes me think a lot of theories. So Robert gave Frank an Aleister Crowley book...not good, wow. Thank you so much for uploading this, GREAT STUFF. Mind if i sample this small bit for my channel for a video? Thank you
JCM, I made a mistake. It was not Robert Plant who gave Gail, not Frank, actually, the Aleister Crowley book, but Jimmy Page. Gail then gave it to Frank. I do make a correction at the top of these comments, but it's worth repeating. I think Jeff is busy on other things at the moment, so you may not get a reply.
@@paulinebutcherbirdyes I knew what you meant ,not Plant but Page...Page bought a house that Crowley had lived in...
Pauline...May i ask a question/...Many people want to know about the tunnels built that travelled to the house that Houdini once stayed in across the road...Some say the city later used them for storm water ...but it was said there was an elevator and the tunnels were not crude but were professionally cut and lit with a lighting system..Did you have any understanding of these tunnels.
Mike, I didn't have any knowledge or curiosity about those tunnels as I'm claustrophobic. I reluctantly went down to the basement from where the tunnel was supposed to go. The only person I could now ask is Sparky (GTO) who lived at the log cabin after we left. There is a documentary on UA-cam about the tunnels. No one seems to have found them, but there is enough rumour to suggest that something must have been there, but it was nothing to do with Houdini who aparently lived across the other side of Laurel Canyon for only a few months and even then was a tenant, not an owner. There is one other person I could ask if I can trace him. His mother owned the log cabin.
@@paulinebutcherbird That true about Houdini not livng across the road but being a house guest of the owner...I think or believe he rented a place not to far away but not direct acorss the road...I was watching a series on Laurel canyon 1964-1975 and the muso's that lived there and that matter of the tunnels arose....The question is what was there initial purpose..The house across the road was owned in the early decades by a very wealthy man and I wonder why you would tunnel between the properties when in those days the traffic would be nil...Thank you
@@mikedemike5393 The mystery remains. If I ever get to speak to the guy whose mother owned the log cabin, I will ask him what he knows.
Hello. I can't follow all this but did anyone ever mention me? I interviewed for Frank, his wife, and Wild mans was there and
Moon-unit as a child. I heard there are tapes in the Zappa collection with my name on them. Thanks.
Did you not keep a record of the interview yourself? Do you have a date for this interview? What are your memories from it?
@pauline butcher bird my uncle guy mcelwaine used to manage the turtles. I just learned yesterday they started the mothers. I had a red guitar he recorded. IT got repossessed. Frank was a gentleman wild man threw a bottle and that made me leave. Gail was there. Everyone was cool except wild man. I have studied Camarillo hospital and it goes back to 1945 with Francis farmer.
I believe the year was 1968.
@@artsahobby123 If Wildman threw a bottle then it would have been at their Woodrow Wilson house. The Turtles did not start the Mothers. You are very much on the wrong track. They joined the Mothers about four years after the Mothers were formed. Who were you working for when you got to do the interview? And where was it published? Who told you a copy was in the vault?
@@paulinebutcherbird Moon Unit and her brother told me they found tapes with my name on them. I was not working for anyone. My parents got me the interview. They would not give me the tapes. I asked for them.
I, too, disliked the Radio 4 play, and I remember cringing over the same part as Pauline. I thought about recommending it to my friend but decided not to because I didn't think it did the book justice. Great interview.
Thank you, TheWhippinpost. It was a 45 minute play so a lot to cram. I was surprised by the parts they chose. In its own terms, it was okay though and Pick of the Week chose an early scene as something worth listening to.
I think she's stumbled upon something... that Frank, though he would probably disagree, did approach music in a more clinical sense... that his pieces could have sounded cold and overly complex, were it not for the sake of the people he employed... if you look at Hot Rats, it started with a long electric blues violin figure and then that morphed into Peaches, which is obviously the centerpiece of the LP... AND willy the pimp, has Beefheart's stamp all over it... and I credit Shuggie Otis in bringing the former to life. With Ruth and Ian... and while Frank knew what he liked when he heard it, I think that there were people on that album that truly deserved a writing credit.
Interesting. I hope others will pick up your view here. Would you mind if I copy your comment to use on my Facebook page for comment?
@pauline butcher bird certainly! I've read a lot about Frank, listened to it all and am a musician myself, of some note. I've written a 900 page book about my 16 years with a girl who was my best friend, bandmate, collaborateur and wife.. all before I lost her in the second month of her 35th year. I was sure we would make a mark. And I'm convinced that she still will. Luckily, I saved every bit of memorandum... my sentimental nature proved handy. We recorded and worked on about 100 songs as well ad lived a great life together... the kind I know few have had... Kari used to ask me what I would do when we got famous and I said, pretty much what I do now... maybe a bit more! Lol.
This was our last song, to give you an idea of the level of our work ... thank you for your interesting take on Frank!
ua-cam.com/video/HNnayiJLHqk/v-deo.html
@@seansweeney3532 I watched the video and it's beautiful. Nothing clinical here. I looked on i-tunes but didn't see it. Where would it be sold?
Hot Rats starts with Peaches En Regalia. In 1969 it was startling to hear sounds like that even before you entered the rest of the album. What is the long electric blues violin figure you are referring to? Off the top of my head the only song that starts like that is Directly From My Heart to You on "Weasels..." which of course is not a Zappa composition.
@alancumming6407 Believe it or not, it was peaches that started as a long electric violin blues solo.. Frank was really good at editing and basically when he had a sixteen track tape machine, he would do things that other people simply couldn't at that time... Things that only Brian Eno surpassed him with. The era of multi track recordings go away back to a single called "sally go round the roses" in which a local producer hired a number of female singers to interpret these lyrics he had written, And also hired musicians as well... In all, he probably "auditioned" about 100 people in recording their ideas, and a lot of them were kept in "vine" form for this multi Track recording... Basically, he would record what they interpreted and make notes on what he liked and then make safety copies, Using Hey, click track generated by something reliable like a Hammond drum machine or a similar electronic device that would give consistent BPM clicks... And then the next people would come in and he would record and then make notes and then more safety copies, but only of their solo'd parts. ... And in the end he had a song that was basically organically composed... by OTHER people... but something he could put his stamp and publish it himself.
If you look at that song's history, you'll see that there's a number of people that claim to have written/performed it or helped with that.... Zappa was kind of the same way... Like Steely Dan (who also used this method, hiring teams of musicians, all of whom had signed off on ever taking credit for what likely would be their own creative work; IE: Katy Lied Was an LP that Steely Dan members didn't actually even play on!), He liked to assemble bands of crack musicians to interpret the things he wrote, Which in embryo and in those days could be rather austere, with just some suggestions, a key center and maybe part of a "head".... Guys would come in and interpret and then they would also improvise. Shuggie Otis was one such, who apparently couldn't read music, so it's very likely his part was completely improvised... It was one such improvisation that inspired him to write the part that became the head of peaches... And basically, with the help of Ruth, he was able to compose the whole front "head" section and then make a loose solo section for guitar and such, and then the heavily syncopated section with the organ and marimba parts... (which bears Ruth and Ian's stamp every bit as much and as recognizable as Zappa's).... And that's pretty much the whole song. He discussed the creation and composition. I believe on an interview I heard on NPR a longtime ago.
Before you judge Frank Zappa, you must understand the times he lived in, what the culture was at the time, what he went through, and what his professional universe was like. Before he was a composer, he was a man. And if you are creating great things, you would naturally expect certain benefits not readily available to the common person. I don't know if a culture of free love and unrestrained sex still occurs in the world of rock music with new bands today. It's a pity his obsession with cigarette smoking cost him his life. Such a smart man, such a stupid habit
I cannot disagree with anything you say. Thank you showing empathy.
In one of interviews Zappa said he liked smoking...
He was against drugs, they had no affect him.
@@ElizabethTupiak Tobacco was his favourite vegetable
Frank died of prostate cancer, not lung cancer, though his lungs must’ve been a mess from his constant smoking.
I'm here after a 40 year thing from a Valley Girl. He was before my time, but I love documentaries of past musicians. Saw an interview with his daughter Moon first and when she mentioned having a dad who wasn't home and growing up with se-x all around her I was deeply saddened. Now hearing this interview, it confirms everything the daughter said. This man wasn't a s-ex addict who poked any woman that walked. He was emotionally abusive to his wife and kids which was terrible.😠 I do not understand how women get trapped by men with such grimy character. He may have been a musical "genius", but like Kanye they destroy those closest to them with sadistic behavior.
The trouble is he also had a tender side, and he did give his wife the role of running his business, so perhaps that's why she stayed. Moon herself was transfixed with love for him despite seeing the pain he was causing her mother. Yes, Frank's womanising was extreme and it no doubt caused Gail gut-wrenching pain but if he didn't show her some love from time to time, I'm sure she would have left. That's the conundrum.
We got the e-book and it was great news. Stuff I never knew before.
The e-book, at present, is the old version. I like the new version better, but I'm so glad you are happy with the original.
Without the shit ugly zappa, the music World would be much better
He was an insult to other composers
This was a fascinating interview! Thanks to you both :) I am a fan of Frank Zappa, and also Ian Anderson (Jethro Tull). I have read that Frank had wanted to speak with Ian before he died, and that Ian had heard that, but had been too scared to call Frank etc etc.....what is the truth there? Did Frank have anything to say to IA?
PS - I'm going to buy that book :)
I wasn't there during Frank's last days but I do get feedback from those who were and it appears that Gail was a stern gatekeeper. I imagine that she would have let Ian Anderson through had he phoned because she remained a groupie to the end of her days!
@@aqualung4359 Did you get it?
Pauline, I’m really happy that you spoke about Frank’s lyrics so frankly (hah). I love his music a lot, but the ways he wrote about women really bother me and prevent me from enjoying the music more. I have also had the thought that he wrote terrible lyrics about men too, but what strikes me is that the power dynamic is always the same: gross, predatory men and dumb, objectified women. And he always seemed to take joy in “playing” those male characters.
It’s certainly complicated and a huge point of debate, which I am up for. But I just wanted to tell you that I appreciate your confidence in bringing up a tough subject.
James, I appreciate your reply because most Zappa fans are protective for Frank's lyrics and complain when I voice dislike for his very contentious lyrics like 'Bamboozled by love' or 'Magdalena' . They maintain that Frank is merely highlighting what is going on in the world. I wonder why anyone can see those songs as entertainment. The usual comeback is 'you don't get it.' I then argue that we all have limits and Frank clearly had a limit on child abuse as he has no songs on the matter. I have a limit on women-abuse.
Frank was a product of his generation even though he was years ahead of his time. I’m 64 y/o and I can tell you that in the early 60s parents could beat the crap out of their kids and no one said a word. You can’t judge Frank by today’s standards. The 60s changed everything. 31:29
@@michaelrosenberg2030 Pauline was also a product of that time, and is appalled by some of Frank's lyrics. Plenty of people of their age would feel the same. It's not "today's standards", its the standards of that time too. I can and will criticize Zappa for some of his worst lyrics, and this is speaking as a fan as well.
@@michaelrosenberg2030 Michael, I wish I could agree with you but inevitably we can and do judge by today's standards - we don't approve of capital punishment and, as you mention, walloping a child, among a list of things that today are no longer acceptable. I agree with James Cerone. Frank criticised practically everyone so it's only right that he himself cannot be above criticism where criticism is due. We are criticising some of his lyrics, not the man.
Frank liked to pillory human stupidity, while at the same time being strangely compassionate about it. And the kind of female archetypes, as well as the male ones, that he made up lyrics about were all too common at the time. This was what he wrote about, and he was always upfront about the absurdity of it all.
You're a classy lady, Pauline. Thank you for the interview and book.
Nice compliment. Thank you.
I’m really quite curious about why Frank strongly believed that only one party could be polyamorous for the relationship to work. Given him and Gail were still on the verge of divorce a lot and he was also distant from her as Pauline described, I don’t know if her having flings without love as he did would have mattered, or if that was all an excuse for him being possibly controlling and possessive of women in his life.
I wonder this too. In reading Pauline's book I think there are times when Frank comes off as passive aggressive and controlling in a narcissistic manner. Yet in speaking to her and others about their interactions with Frank they seem to dispute this.
I do think I've given an unfair overall view of Frank and Gail's relationship. I've implied he brought home endless women but in fact there were four in all that I know of over the time of their marriage. When Gail rebelled and left him to live with her brother and there may have been other occasions, Frank chased after her each time. And then he trusted her to run his business which I cannot think of many men doing. He gave her status. One could argue that at least he was honest in his affairs. How many men who are unfaithful can own up to that?
It's because Frank Zappa was more of a traditional patriarch than a modern narcissist. In any patriarchal household, there can be multiple handmaidens, but only one patriarch. A narcissist is a serial abuser who exploits one person after another, discarding each victim before moving on. A patriarch has a place for each person in his life, and maintains them in that role for as long as they serve their purpose for him. Gail knew her purpose and served him well, and for that he supported her and their children, regardless of his broader interests outside their family.
@@paulinebutcherbird "One could argue that at least he was honest in his affairs. How many men who are unfaithful can own up to that?" It is my impression that most women are not at all interested in their partners' honesty concerning affairs.
@@nwogamesalert That is true. In Gail's case, she accepted Frank's infidelity on the road because that's what rock stars did. She advised other women not to marry rock stars because of this peril, so she knew the rules. But Frank took it further, bringing women home and I think this pushed Gail to her emotional and mental limits. It appears that when she rebelled, he caved in and chased after her. I was not there,, but from what I've learned from others who were there at the time, these other women for whom Frank considered leaving Gail, themselves flitted, realising what they were taking on. Frank said himself that Gail was the only woman who would put up with his roving eye and so, like many marriages, they stumbled on to the end.
Wildman Fischer was the Daniel Larson of the 60's
I was sooo much waiting when she talked about cal schenkel that that was exactly the time captain beefheart did trout mask replica with frank producing and nothing? That was one of the reasons I wanted to listen to hear a little about the wolf. Oohhwwwoo ! Oh well good listen 🙏🏻
I realize back in the late 60's when Frank was saying his chauvinistic words to her, journalists still for the most part were honest and could be trusted by the populus. Also, universities welcomed debates and peoples personal views. Maybe he was ahead of his time though as colleges and universities poison young minds today, have no tolerance for any views other than the liberal view and have created a closed woke culture and uncomfortable place for many creative young people and this cancelling thing is horrible too. In the 60's people had many reasons to protest and it seemed as if the right or republicans were the old stodgy, anti freedom party. Well, what have we got now? Its totally swung the other way.
I'm glad to read your view about university education but it is not mine. What do you say about the protests by students (I assume you're American) against the Israeli bombardments in Gaza? They appeared to be totally aware and educated.
Frank was a complex figure. I love his music. But like many fans I struggle sometimes with his attitudes to women. The world moved on in the sixties and the emergence of feminism was a necessary movement towards greater equality between the sexes. He was a product of the time.
The interesting question is how he would have dealt with the Me-Too movement. I think he would have scorned that too, just as I do, so I wouldn't have minded that. I think he would have modified his views. Remember he was the only man I had met at that time who encouraged me to be a writer.
Very interesting as all of Pauline's interviews are. I maintain that Zappa's most creative period were 1977 until his death. His 60s and early 70s stuff is good but his late 70s and 80s stuff is just out of this world
Now isn't that interesting. I assume from your comment that you came into the Zappa world later on in his career. I make this statement because I've noticed fans seem to imprint on the album they are hooked by. So those who joined the fold after hearing Freak Out! and Absolutely Free tend to be scornful of later stuff saying it misses the humour of the original Mothers of Invention. I personally agree with you that Frank's creativity grew and grew, not that I like all of it but still . . .
@@paulinebutcherbird Interestingly I first discovered Frank through Freak Out! (around 15ish years after it was made) and then the second I heard was Apostrophe. After getting hooked I became a Zappa addict but I found musically and politically, things became more interesting with almost ever album. Whenever people ask me where to start, I usually recommend The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life
I read and enjoyed this book a number of years ago.
But the paperback cover looked different.
As for the gun, did anyone know if it in fact was loaded?
It probably was.
And did Frank just leave it in the pond the whole time he lived there?
The cover now looks different because it is a new edition. It has chapter titles to help you find you way to parts that interest you, it's re-constructed so all the Mothers stuff is together, ditto Gail, ditto GTOs, etc, some of the peripherals characters are taken out, there's a post-script to describe what happened to everyone after the book ended, there's a full transcript of my interview with Frank in 1988, and the narrative of my relationship with Frank and Gail is clearer. We don't know if the gun was loaded but Frank said it was a Colt 45. It would have been impossible to get the gun because although the pond was not deep, it was murky and full of algae. No one attempted to get it. I do wonder what happened when the bulldozers moved in to clear the land and the pond was cleared some time in the 80s or 90s. Don't forget we moved out shortly after this episode. We lived there from May 1968 to September 5 1968.
@@paulinebutcherbird Great to hear from you, Pauline.
I can’t recall exactly how many years it’s been, but you previously responded to a comment I made regarding my appreciation of your book/memoirs.
@@charleswinokoor6023 Pleased to re-make your acquaintance, Charles. I hope this interview revived some memories.
@@paulinebutcherbird One of the things I remember from your book was that you had a crush on Ian Underwood for a while.
Talk about scandalous!
But as we know he ended up marrying Ruth, who I saw play with Frank a couple times.
I’m 68. The first time I saw Mothers of Invention was October 1971 in Providence, R.I.
It was quite a night. Frank and the band played close to three hours including the encore.
Then two and a half months later I read about how he was badly injured after someone pushed him off the stage at London’s Rainbow.
I was really quite shocked and concerned.
I was a big fan and a guitar player to boot who appreciated Frank’s playing style.
If I’m not mistaken I think the first time I saw your name in print was on the Uncle Meat album cover.
At least that’s my best guess.
Thanks for your reply, Pauline.
@@charleswinokoor6023 I'm not on the Uncle Meat album cover but a photo in the booklet that came with it, Frank with his usual teasing mode. I haven't seen it for years. In fact, I'm not sure I could even find it. I was in London with Frank when he was knocked off the stage and had tickets for the next night which of course never happened. Ian's friendship was so important in helping me survive all the bitchiness and upside down life I was living. You were very lucky to see that three-hour set as I think other concerts were often lucky to reach an hour.
Frank Zappa and his mother were at the best place around.
What does that mean?
Dirty pathetic Person zappa died like a miserable bum at the end 🤣 🤣
@@paulinebutcherbird Lyrics from smoke on the water.
@@rutherfordmaplethorpe5083 I would have called that the worst place!
@@paulinebutcherbird As you remember that concert in Switzerland and the bootleg is available on youtube right up to when the fire began and Frank calmly asking for people to leave in a orderly way...
What is bizarre is that no more then 15 minutes prior to some idiot flicking a lit matchstick up to the paper mache decorations ,Frank was doing the sketch about the sofa and God and the celestial construction of the universe for this sofa....and he says 3 times...sheets of fire,sheets of fire,real sheets of fire..
Now I know this is out there but Frank was very much pushing the envelope at that time about religion and Switzerland being the home of the Catholic church(swiss guards)and the location being close to the old temple of Appollo....Strangely,later when they played the famous concert where he was pushed from stage he dropped that sketch or routine from the song list....Frank was not religious in the traditional church sense but there is one interview later in his life that he says he is religious...Do you think or believe that the fire freaked him out... that in a superstitious way he felt he had gone too far and he later recoiled in a sense from that aspect of his performances and shows and changed direction.
Nice lady!
Groovy!
Groovy! One of the words I had to learn when I got to Hollywood along with ‘where it’s at, gross, outtasight, hung up, boss,’ among others.
@@paulinebutcherbird Haha. Wowie Zowie!
With shit zappa fans, its like with mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them shit 🤣 🤣 🤣
Liked this interview, more incite than the time I had a back and forth with her trying to pick her brain. I think she was pushing her book so might have been slightly cagey. Although over time my views on Zappa had changed and she was vaguely correcting some of my assumptions. However being older, I now say, unless you actually live with someone, you don't have a chance in hell of knowing much about them. After this interview I might say the people who did live with Frank weren't or couldn't have been clued in much better because he was so distant.
I'm intrigued. When did I do an interview with you and where was it published? It doesn't sound like me. There is some truth to what you say. Frank was closed in. He didn't want to reveal himself or let go. With his bands, he did the same - watched their antics and didn't get involved. Filmed them, recorded them and kept a distance. Yet I found him enchanting and although I could criticise him and see his faults, found him awe-inspiring - well, that is until Women's Liberation came along.
@@paulinebutcherbird I think I responded to a video where you were being interviewed. I remember the story about gun but you described it in less detail. I was on another channel and I do use other names. Not that I think of Frank all the time but I was probably still impressed as I was as a teen with some of his arguments centering around the PMRC debate. It was several years ago. I'm 52 and older now and my views are more refined. I would have to research it. It wasn't like we were talking in person, so I only assumed it was you. I'm pretty sure it was though but could easily be wrong online. Maybe my choice of words is throwing you off. Let me rephrase cagey, this interview is more in depth and detail. People from certain generations and backgrounds act a certain way. A lot of macho guys don't like some of the things I say. I'm not a feminist, I'm a realist, and there is a whole lot of posturing going on and facades. Man and woman are different but in many ways the same.
@@paulinebutcherbird Btw as best as I can tell so far it was 10 years ago. I really can't remember or curreently find anything. I'm wondering now if it was on another platform like facebook or here as well. I was looking for ideas for writing some songs about Laurel Canyon. I think i wound up writing one ha! Although it was inspired by a more cynical view of Laurel Canyon.
@@BILLYMORGAN1971 This conversation could go on and on, dealing with the different tributaries you've opened up. I am a realist, too, but also a feminist. I concur - men and women are different and these differences should always be acknowledged.
@@BILLYMORGAN1971 It was not difficult to be cynical about Laurel Canyon, especially after the Manson murders although of course they occurred in a different Canyon several miles off.
Pauline’s book is brilliant! One of the most evocative Zappa books yet written, and I’ve read hundreds!
Thank you, terrypussypower!
With shit zappa fans, its like with mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them shit 🤣 🤣 🤣
Yes. It was an eye opening humdinger.
@@albertog7245 Ah, thank you, Alberto. 'Eye opening humdinger'! Not heard that before.
Zappa died like a miserable bum at the end 🤣 🤣 🤣
wowzerz
this is fantastic listening
I generally don't idolize people, but if i was forced to needing to admire at least one person to that extent, Frank would probably be my choice.
So pleased you feel that way. Some viewers have become critical of Frank after listening, and I regret that.
With shit zappa fans , its like with mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them shit 😂😂
I'd say someone like Frank Zappa was more honest with women than most men. He could handle rejection whereas some can't and then in turn get nasty. There are blurred lines now and men are terrified of making their intentions clear, (which is usually just sex) and can complicate things even further. Men and Women are now weak. I get the feeling Frank would agree alot more with a feminist such as Camille Paglia than Kate Millet. Brilliant interview.
Thank you for watching. It was an honor to interview Pauline.
@@JeffStarr she's cool. Brilliant questions with great flow.
Thankyou for bringing Camille Paglia to my attention. I closed down feminist rhetoric some time back because of the constant mud-slinging back and forth. I don't know what Frank would have thought of her given when I was there, he thought Women's Liberation was all about dykes. I hope you're right. I hope he would have matured and acknowledged feminism's worthiness. The paradox is that, at that time, he was the only man to encourage me, a woman, to succeed as a writer, but then Frank was full of these contradictions.
@@paulinebutcherbirdI just thought, both Frank and Camille are Italian. President and Vice President, could you imagine? I really enjoyed your interview, Pauline. Thank you for your reply.
@@quaid667 And you, too, Jamie for your interesting comment. .
Great interview with a great lady.
Thank you, Peri.
At the end, the thing you don´t understand, she says: "Hope, Robert Plant will not kill me...." lol
Would you give me the location of that comment because I can't find it!
@@paulinebutcherbird 1:03.57 Or was I wrong? I just couldn´t believe that R.Plant HIMSELF gave Frank a Crowley-book.....I don´t think he was that involved with Crowley as his "guitar buddy"...
Oh,I´m sorry,he gave it to Gail,as you said....
@@Rahoorkhuitable You are quite right. How did you know that about Robert Plant. I don't know how I got the name wrong but it was Jimmy Page who gave him the book. Now before I make the correction, would you affirm that Jimmy Page was into that kind of thing?
@@paulinebutcherbird I see myself like being in court with Jimmy Page Ok, let´s start:
"Besides all the spiritual damage he´s caused me, I, Ch.A.Rath, AFFIRM that Jimmy Page was "into that kind of thing"....although, it must be said, that I wasn´t even near his astral body while he was interested!" We have to be correct here, Pauline.
P.S.: That will cost you a case of beer, Robert !
I loved Zappa since I discovered him as a youth. His visceral guitar playing is celestial.
It was ruined by discovering his shitty, spoiled and superior attitude to what was called Punk in the UK.
I never heard Frank complain about punk. Give me a quote or something.
If I remember he liked some punk music and played some when he was a fraudulent DJ on BBC Radio 1. He also played the Bee Gees, Black Sabbath, Stravinsky and Howlin' Wolf so he liked an eclectic mix. I don't think your comments are a true reflection of his attitude towards anything.
@pauline butcher bird I don't think Frank was against punk rock, only that it has to be sincere... in tinseltown rebellion, he mentions punk kind of snidely... but that's about manufactured punk groups... because flower punk, one of zappas songs, could indeed be a precursor... also, I'm So cute, from sheik yerbouti... zappa also hated the velvet underground, the grandfather's of punk, or maybe they were just taking turns posturing... But the only music that was like the Mother's when he started would arguably be the Fugs.
@@seansweeney3532 Well, you know more about this subject than I do. You need to debate this with other zealous fans like yourself.
This was an excellent interview.
Pauline, if you don't mind please, did he jam with any of the more popular musicians of that time? Did Hendrix visit and did they ever play together? What about Beck etc? Any recollections?
Televin V, really you should read the book! But I'll be generous. The only group that Frank went to see while I was there was John Mayall and I can't remember without looking it up, which club it was in. And the only reason Frank went there was because John was staying at the log cabin with us. Frank had no interest in other rock stars. When two of the Pink Floyd visited, he took them to the studio and played his recently recorded stuff for them. There was no socialising. He did socialise with Mick Jagger and I have a whole chapter on him. Jeff Beck came with Rod Stewart to the house one night while Frank, Gail and I were at the studio with him. When we got back, Rod and Jeff were having a food fight in the kitchen. Frank walked through and ignored them. I've said this in the interview so I'm not telling you anything new. They also turned up at the studio when the GTOs were recording their album. Rod sings and Jeff plays on the album.
@pauline butcher bird yes, I heard you mention most of this in the interview.
Thanks for responding.
For a blues fan, you'd think he would have loved to hear John Mayall live.
Then again, it seems like F.Z. was dismissive of most popular musicians except for a handful of them.
Maybe it has to do with their drug/booze habits?
@@televinv8062 I can't answer the question with any knowledge. It might have been their drug problems. I never heard him listen to other people's music so I was always astonished when, in interviews, he was asked about other people's music and seemed to know all about it. I think you will find better answers than I can give from those interviews. When I admired Leonard Cohen's music and he decried it on the basis of it being silly love songs, I thought to myself, well, when have you ever heard Cohen's music. I never knew how that happened. Maybe someone else can help.
@@paulinebutcherbird thanks Pauline!
Best wishes!!
@@paulinebutcherbird Hej Pauline. I read somewhere that Frank called Jim Morrison a "buffoon" and also jumped on Morrison in another song. That was very very unfair. Morrison was an alcoholic and often behaved very badly, but he was a very intelligen person too. The Doors and Frank Zappa are the only music I listen to these days. Nothing else is up to their standard. Kudos to you.
Love all his stuff. I may be totally wrong but Ima
'Ima' ?
He didn't stay informed, he didn't watch TV...
Frank Zappa didn't watch TV, nor did anyone else in the house during the time I was there 1968-1971. I imagine as the children grew up, they imposed pressure on Frank to allow them to watch it and gradually by the time Moon and Dweezil were teenagers they were auditioning for parts in sit-coms on TV. Later, Frank spoke about watching CNN news and the bias and flaws in their broadcasting (as if no one else noticed.)
@@paulinebutcherbird Thanks for the reply! I was just pointing out how funny the logic was in that statement in the interview.
You think TV tells the truth?
Smh
"Go ... FrankZappa(aaah)!"
"He was doing what a journalist would do"
Frank you mean? I don't think so. A journalist would not write about the Enema Bandit for example as if it was funny.
Lovely interview, Pauline. You're looking very well ;)
Thankyou, Fuzzbee. I wish I'd worn something less 'old-lady' 😒
How many people who lived in the house In Laurel Canyon actually lived to a ripe old age? Not many. Manson, Zappa, Janice Joplan, Jim Morrison. What did they do to them there?
Looks like you've been reading conspiracy theories all over the web that a military connection was sinisterly involved. Look around at other rock stars who lived nowhere near the canyon and re-do your arithmetic.
Ok….am i the only one asking why someone gifted him….a bag of blood?
Uhhhhhh chrome?????anyone?
I think he said, 'represents all the people who've died for us.' Raven gave no explanation other than that as far as I recall or is in my notes, and Frank didn't ask. As I describe in the book, he came again the next day when Frank was on tour and Gail, in her brave way because she was very brave, dealt with him.
? ? ? 😮 in that valley any thing is possable 😮
It is well known that Frank had so many women he started a all female band called the GTO's these women helped Frank's wife in the raising of his children Frank's career came first he spent half the year on the road playing concerts having sex with groupies
A few sweeping assumptions made here. Frank started the GTOs because he was interested in the freak scene in Los Angeles and considered it more genuine than the flower power scene in San Francisco. The GTOs represented his attempt to put that view forward. At the time, Frank had one child, Moon Unit. Frank was not alone with his interest in groupies. They were everywhere in 1968/69 and every musician and roadie on tour took advantage.
Cool interview. I once met Cal Schenkel at the Ann Arbor Art Fair in MI in the 70s.
Tell us more, please! 😄 What did you talk about?
I answered this once but it seems to have disappeared. I've always been a Zappa fan also I've worked as a graphic artist since 1981 I was a young art student when I met Cal. We talked about. Zappa's music Cal's cover illustrations and Ann Arbor life in the 70s.
Sicilians are just built differently .
A sweeping statement, indeed.
@paulinebutcherbird lots of experience since childhood. Absolutely no disrespect or slight intended. All those I know personally will readily agree with this observation.
36:37
Why have you highlighted that part?
@@paulinebutcherbird there is a minecraft sound, thats all i say here
@@KingCrimson82 Baffled.
Moon Zappa wrote an auto biography.
So I watched her interviews to promote her book, which led me to a documentary about Frank in 1971 (the year I was born) where she appears as a toddler.
Here’s some thoughts on this documentary:
Hey- here’s the star of the show!
Living in a mess and never even wears a shirt- and heres his kids.
Always naked.
As children of hippies, my siblings and I were like refugees.
All we wanted were some real clothes and an actual meal.
Poor Moon, crawling on the floor naked while her Dad ignores her and puts an industrial vacuum cleaner on a rando lady’s tits.
Just another Tuesday afternoon.
So neglectful and inappropriate.
And where’s lunch?
Frank got to go to the taco stand.
Bragging he made enough money being in a rock band to buy tacos.
But what about his kids?
They weren’t at the taco stand.
What did they eat that day?
And here’s some women-
They were in their own band too (The GTO’s).
At least this doc Shows they actually existed. (Though at the time, women couldn’t even have their own bank account).
Thank you Moon.
Your new autobiography book makes me feel seen. As I’m sure other Gen X raised by hippies in the 70s and 80s feel.
Yes, our creative parents were interesting.
But these people didn’t really care about their children and should not have had them.
I think we were fashion accessories, like a naked baby on your hip instead of a Prada Bag.
Another scene, Another random lady that isn’t his mom , wearing an amazing all red mini skirt ensemble, teaching naked toddler Dweezil how to say the word “water” by showing him the pool it’s a miracle he didn’t drown in.
Maybe us Gen X babies were just a by product of having the amazing hippie sex the Boomer Hippies couldn’t shut up about.
Hippie Parents, Sorry the 50’s were so uptight you had to torture us 20 years later by overcompensating how cool you were.
And here Gen X still are, having to live life half a century later in this future our “Rock Star” King Baby Boomer parents didn’t prepare us for and don’t have to live in.
Because these selfish people forced us here as an afterthought.
I'm sorry you have a harsh upbringing with your hippy parents and it's good that you have found some solace in Moon's book.
@@paulinebutcherbird thank you❤
@@DameDarcy999 However, I think Moon's book is harsh on both her parents because she has written about 50 years living with them and had to leave out happy times. Here's my view of Gail and Moon when Moon was four years old. 'Dweezil still slept in sizeable chunks but Moon, with whom I had a neat little relationship and for whom I’d developed a real fondness, would keep going all night. Gail always sided with her, no matter how foolish her desires or how outrageous her needs. She treated her little daughter as an adult, listening to her opinions with apparent seriousness and pretending to be guided by them. As a result, Moon interrupted whenever she pleased, contradicted and put Gail in her place, and Gail would simply laugh and praise her spirit.' Taken from my own memoir which covers four years.
Frank was right!
About what?
Holy crap man you guys need to get over and listen to weird scenes from laurel canyon everybody now knows what that whole scene was all about and as much as some of us love frank we all know military complex kids all just happened to get famous 🤔 government conspiracy theories or is that conspiracy facts
Wendy, that theory is nonsense. Take any group of people, lawyers, bricklayers, students, priests, and you will find in their family tree connections with the military because the military at the time was one of the biggest employers. The whole theory which has caught on, is another example of conspiracy theories on the internet.
Merci !
why does this guy keep coming up for all things Zappa....
I know! It’s weird. It’s almost like he has a bunch of Zappa videos or something. 😉 I hope the videos have been enjoyable and informative.
Ahh you are the orange hair guy, yeah Zappa was nice...i know that his best friend was the black saxofonist, they were like 2 characters in scenario jajaja
Ohh and now i see your face, you loved zappa jaja that's good, zappa has a big heart but he died of an horrible prostate cancer.
Frank didn't have any best friends. He always said his wife, Gail, was his best friend.
@@paulinebutcherbird you dont know zappa...his BEST friend was the black singer, they were like a dupla and the mothers were a mafia that laugh very much. ZAPPA SAYED THAT BECAUSE HE REALLY LOVES HIS WIFE, IM NOT IDIOT; YOU DONT CARE ABOUT ZAPPA!! GET OUT!!
NO ME DENUNCIES O TE DENUNCIO Y LAS VAS A PASAR MAL, NUNCA TE DIJE NADA MALO FALSO, DEJA DE APROVECHARTE DE FRANK ZAPPA O SUS FANS NO SE LO MERECE FUERAAAAAA
admite que te gusta la plata, en serio nadie se hace problema sobre eso, no te van a mirar mal
Pauline knew Frank Zappa better than you ever will. She should be respected for sharing her life story with us.
@@JeffStarrim sorry, really sorry that comment were i am rude ITS silly and stupid
I am really uncomfortable about this book. It's essentially a revisionist personal history. Pauline was literally at the centre of the counter culture freak scene but saw no drugs or free love. Bizzarely reactionary in tone and content. Her pinned comment adresses an issue that I found very distasteful. On publication Gail was still alive. Referring to Frank's sex life is not right. Now this he only had four affairs nonsense is pointless and weirdly inappropriate. Who cares how many times he had sex with other women. Maybe they had an agreement. Many powerful and famous artists are married but have physical relationship outside of marriage. And he was operating in the era of free love and openness. A Laurel Canyon court probably resembled the court of Henry VIII. What is far more interesting is that Frank rejected the normalized drug use of the time. That must have cost him money at the time. Going against the grain.
Winston, I saw no drugs or free love because the log cabin was like a monastery. Only Calvin, who was housed in an annex part of the house with its own separate entrance, had anyone from outside the house sleep with him. Bizarre as it seems, given Frank's attitude towards sex, no one indulged. You are correct, Gail was still alive when the book was published and the only revelation I make in the book relates to the story she told me, and in that one there was no sex, the girl chose Gail over Frank. These other three I have not spoken about until after Gail died. This is what happens when you're famous and after you die. How else would we know about John F Kennedy's affairs, or a list of other celebrities' private affairs? Finally, my story is not revisionist but based on weekly letters I wrote home to my family and friends wishing them to experience this weird world I found myself in so different from anything English. My mother kept the letters in a shoebox for 40 years. I could not have written the memoir without them.