Lord of The Rings: The Two Towers 4K Blu-ray Review - DNR Spoils Great HDR
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- We review the 4K Blu-ray disc of The Lord of The Rings: The Two Towers in the Trilogy boxset, and found many instances of digital noise reduction (DNR) and edge enhancement (EE) despite great use of HDR (occasionally even exceeding 2000 nits), as well as more generous deployment of WCG (wide colour gamut) colours than in The Fellowship of The Ring.
Our HDR & WCG analysis was performed using the Canon DP-V2411 reference monitor with inbuilt HDR analysis toolkit.
This video was graded and uploaded in HDR10, and so is best viewed on an HDR display. Please let us know how it looks to you in the UA-cam comment section below.
Buy the Lord of The Rings 4K Trilogy boxset from Amazon here*: geni.us/lotr4k
Warning: This video contains spoilers for LOTR: TTT.
*Disclaimer: This is an Amazon affiliate link, from which we may earn a small commission with each qualifying purchase to help us purchase more 4K Blu-rays to review. Our analysis and opinion are never influenced by potential commissions.
========================
**Click Below to SUBSCRIBE for More Reviews, Sneak Peeks & Tips:
/ @hdtvtest
========================
VISIT HDTV Test
www.hdtvtest.co...
FOLLOW US!
/ hdtvtest
/ hdtvtest
/ hdtvtest
/ vincent_teoh
/ hdtvtest
Removing film grain makes me sad
I'm no purist, but even I find that noise reduction to be off-putting... Making details disappear like that, kinda makes 4k a little pointless.
@16bit Classics I'm a purist with a self trained eye and I would definitely notice it like Vincent. Of course, at 12 feet away and with less than ideal vision, I would probably not notice much detail at all except for the HDR nearly engulfing my sense of vision. Regardless, it is empirically true that the film contains DNR which is a double edged sword in reducing picture detail.
@First name Last name Unlikely. If that were true older movies would look bad as well. Play total recall 4k and you'll notice that's nonsense.
This looks worse than the Hobbit tbh.
@First name Last name What he said just proves this wasn't a remaster from the actual 35mm film, because that doesn't have CGI. They would have to re-do all of the CGI and would take several millions of dollar. They just A.I upscaled a 1080p or 2k copy.
@@jeroenschaafsma138because if the 2k digital fx. All the fx would have to been remastered and that would’ve been crazy expensive.
@@UnitedRedDevil13 Not an excuse at all and not how film works. You could easily print the 35mm film with the 2k VFX and still have look sharper because the film stock itself *the grain* becomes sharper.
The 4k version still look like shit and has less detail than the 1080 bluray, no matter which shot you compare. Every. single. shot. has its detail scrubbed away.
Thank you for discussing the evils of DNR/EE in this movie. It's also present in the other LOTR movies and the fake sharpening was even added to the Hobbit movies too. It's a shame because the HDR and sound quality is incredible.
Why are they doing this? The whole point of us spending all this extra money for better picture quality is to GET better picture quality. Why adjust a scene in a way that clearly makes it worse? Just make the whole thing look good for god sake, it's not hard!!!!
you should do a top10 list of your most favorite/ recommended to buy HDR blurays. Many ppl would fall back to that once they get their hands on a good new TV^^
I've just walked past the house Ian McKellen was born in ⬅️👀
@@weredoingitinbabylon8452 Oh you JUST missed him, such a shame.
@@Dark_Jaguar he got in touch after he saw the video and thanked me. Nice chap 👍
I love seeing the texture of film, BlueRay is one of the few ways to get film's that can hold the quality needed to retain all the detail of the film texture.
one step forward with the HDR
two steps back with the blur filter
*Blu-ray
I definitely agree with you on this. The film grain is what gives cinema character
honestly the hdr, colour grading, sound and everything else is so good, its more like 4 steps foward, 1 step back
@@drewb.9497 sure it's not all bad but I just hope it's not something that will be trendy. They decided to make the older films shot on film match the newer films shot on digital & to do it they had to lose some of the visual quality of the film to remove the film grain.
When I first got some blu ray films I loved seeing all the texture that I had never seen before, the fine details that had always been lost on older mediums. So to see it removed is a saw spot for me.
I did photography at UNI, always loved hand printing film/prints. The texture of the film is important, you chose a film stock to match the project for colour, behaviour & grain. The grain adds contrast which gives the illusion of sharpness (and gives you something to focus with the Loupe when hand printing, when printing if the grain is sharp on the print but the image is soft you know you missed the focus on the shot and not the focus on the enlarger).
edit I also do understand that 99% of people will never know what has been changed or even care, it's not a change that relay effects the main enjoyment of the film. I understand it's more of a personal thing that i enjoy the texture of film so much, how it changes with stock and the softness and sharpness it can give & variety over time from classic films to more modern ones.
Sometimes film grain is horribly distracting. And in a fantasy movie, it has anachronistic implications too.
For me the DNR is really the killer. I find the Extended-Bluray to be the most organic way to watch the movies. HDR and color timing might be great on the 4k bluray but the DNR takes you out of the movie so many times. Look how Gollum looks digital on the 4k version.
Fellowship has the extremely green tint on EE BD, though. Best thing would be to make your own BD with non green normal BD and green tinted extnded scenes.
@@turrican4d599 Thats not a good solution. The normal BD (theatrical) has DNR all over it, weak contrasts and an overall softness. The Extended bluray is much sharper and has a punchier image.
Conclusion:
there is currently no bluray version of these movies that honors the quality of the movies
Bluray (Theatrical): soft, DRN, low contrast
Bluray (Extended): sharp, punchy but weird green tint
4k bluray: Sharp, DNR, digital look, but great color timing HDR
Pick your poison...
@@Prodrummer1603 how about dvd/dvd extended?
Honestly Gollam looks like crap period. Not real looking.The DNR has a few standout bad moments, but for the most part, the colour and resolution improvement are far better than the blu ray.
can you disable dnr on the blu ray player? @@Prodrummer1603
With 4k, you can see more details than with 1080p. Whats the whole point of 4k releases, if those details getting killed by filters? Who the heck came to that brilliant idea?
DNR should never be used on movies that where shot on film ! change my mind.
As this seems to not be a proper 4K restoration but an upscale then yes, they probably shouldn't have used it but sometimes when going from film to 4K, film grain is pronounced so much that some DNR is useful and beneficial. Case by case basis and less is more type of thing.
@@AdamH7 I would rather have the noise i dislike Noise reduction leave it in if people don't like it only buy digital recording.
Check out the Matrix 4k disc, grain so bad in some shots you can eat it with a spoon!
@@leon.skennedy9931 I don't own that movie on 4K but do plan to buy it. I do own close Encounter of The Third Kind it bugged me at first but i got used to it i would rather have the noise than to lose Details if it's Film i want the noise but i do hate fake Digital noise it shouldn't be on Digital recording.
@@RKoen2006 cool man, be interested to hear your opinion on first Matrix 4k disc regarding grain :) it's a great transfer overall, sharp picture and good colours! I'm a fan of film and the detail in grain, Lord of the Rings needs more, Matrix needs less. Sweet spot somewhere in the middle where detail is retained, but grain not distracting :)
Peter Jackson; wings it again. Hey, who gives a shit about the Hobbit Trilogy? Ruining the LOTR to make it "fit" with the shittier series is dumb. Tolkiens two books had very different looks and feel so should the the movies
I noticed that on King Theoden’s face but didn’t know what that was. Thanks for the info.
The DNR really stands out negatively throughout the trilogy. I was very disappointed. So much potential lost there. I absolutely love these movies and it would be such a great watching experience (LG C9) if it wasn't for the noise reduction.
It's unfortunate there isn't a "definitive" version. The 4K version is still worth it over the standard Blu-ray imo, because the color's are much better and the HDR looks great. But the DNR is really unfortunate, though isn't always as blatant as the scene he used to showcase it.
I got a CX.
This is not DNR, this is an upscaled movie. they used davinci resolve which has a function called superscale in sharp mode. I find it strange that Warner being a large studio they have not used another better method, Topaz gigapixel does a better job.
@@Burgergio 😂👍🏻
@@jerchongkong5387 I think it's mostly DNR because the difference between upscaling isn't that huge 🤔.
EDIT: though it depends on how much motion blur there was in the original material.
This is a no buy for me due to the DNR, I refuse to buy movies with DNR as it just ruins the them.
Like you knew what DNR was before this video came out...
@@adammohrone Why wouldn't I have known what DNR is before this video came out? Just because you didn't know doesn't mean I didn't know.
@@Jokkepappaification sure, bud. Isn’t it time for you to go to other social media’s and tell people about dnr now and how they’re doing it wrong?
@@adammohrone Why would I do that? You are not making any sense at all.
@@adammohrone I've been advocating against the use of temporal filtering which is prone to cause issues like smearing and ghosting and general lack of texture like shown here since 2014.
Do you really expect people over here to have no idea what DNR means? We are literal nerds when it comes to stuff like that.
Too bad...excessive DNR ruined many scenes in the trilogy for me. Inconsistent is the first word that comes to mind. How can a movie look so good and so bad all at the same time??🤦♂️
Re release the discs
It’s really old smh
@@Lastman10101 There are plenty of much older 4K restorations that look substantially better. Excessive DNR was a choice that has nothing to do with how old the movies are.
This movie is a upscaled from 2k sourse, is a shame.
@@Lastman10101 it's really not that old but the early DI process was rubbish and some of their choices made it even worse. So in a way, it's old.
I said the same about the DNR in my video review. Hopefully people see the light now. Thanks Vincent!
Thanks for spotting it first, Elliot. Watching your clip just after they were released avoided an expensive mistake for me. I love my extended edition blu-rays; "my precious" they are 😂
Yeah, i couldn't cancel my preorder after watching that video, but was able to sell the set unopened on ebay, it even sold for more than I paid for it, so the ebay tax was covered. Got the itunes 4K versions instead for 3,99 each, at least the HDR is ok, and there are apparently very few details to begin with, so the higher compression is not a big issue.
@@HNedel There is a version on itunes of lotr? it's 4k hdr too?
@@ThereisNOpandemicWAKEUP yeah, it is 4k Dolby Vision. I actually bought the first two parts in HD in anticipation of the upgrade to 4k, since i wasn't sure for how long the 3,99 price will stay, so it was a small gamble, but worked out fine.
@@HNedel Really? So how does it stack up compared to this release? It's a shame because dolby vision is not watchable on windows :(. I didn't see any pirate rip either.
I reported this in my review also. I reported it also to many top reviewers, and I will not mention their names, and they didn't see the huge issues with this disc. I'm a purist also, and these discs are unacceptable in terms of video quality.
My 4K steelbook edition arrived today, I am very happy. I remember watching the first movie on VHS I borrowed from a friend on a very bad TV so I'm actually grateful we can nitpick like this and I look forward to watching the extended version in 4K :).
I find the experience of watching it every time it gets re-released very exciting haha, it’s like a ritual.
I noticed the DNR but I'm fine with it, the HDR is so good that it really supersedes the DNR issue for me.
Exactly, this is genuinely the best use of HDR I’ve ever seen.
I think the HDR is horrible, I liked the DVD better.
It looks absolutely stunning on my tv so I don't care what anyone says.
lol same
Same here, the trilogy looks fantastic.
Gollum now looks really fake in a few shots. But somehow more real in most other shorts lol other than that though, these 4ks looks staggering
I have the Theatrical and Extended cuts on both Blu-Ray and 4k UHD Blu-Ray and all of the DNR issues you highlighted and detail loss is present in all releases, including the previous Blu-Rays (theatrical and Extended) from 10ish years ago. The issues must be on the master print that was used for the transfer, and is not a fault in the DNR process done for the 4k release. Two Towers is the only film that has these issues, and looking at comparisons of Fellowship and Return of the King, you actually gain detail (just check the comparisons on caps-o-holic if you don't believe me). So the master print is the issue, not the 2021 remaster.
thx for the info!
is it this review you talk about?
ua-cam.com/video/I3Z58uiwcME/v-deo.html&ab_channel=BoutiqueBlu-rayswithElliotCoen
The great HDR in LOTR puts all the last Star Wars movies to shame.
Disney doesn't like HDR.
@@DoomSayerSantos oh yes... a few days ago I wanted to watch pirates of the caribbean (the first one) on Disney +... advertised as DolbyVision... it looks simply awful... They seemingly took the SDR material, wrote Dolby Vision onto it and added very few highlights... Day scenes just look so wrong (incredibly dull, the 'bright' blue sky in the caribbean looks kinda like slightly misty europe and so on...)
British 008, ok but still all LOTR 4K unlike HOBBIT TRILOGY are only 2K DI what .... Scandal shame on WARNER + PJ (supervising)
Harry Potter has a dark HDR too. but people love to hate anything released by Disney this day.
The new color-grading and DNR in Lord of the Rings ruins it, though.
The DNR is really disappointing. I don't understand who they think this is marketed towards. People who care about quality are the ones buying the physical discs. People who don't care are streaming it or depressingly still buying the DVD. So why apply this DNR garbage to the physical 4k release? Someone who has a CX OLED and a UB9000 isn't going to be the same person who wants DNR applied to their movies.
1:44 "Eowyn looks thicc!" Vincent Theo 2021
FFS.. Who exactly is asking for all this DNR/Digital-Grading/Edge Enhancement Bollox?
It always seems to happen to films that are crying out for a faithful recreation of their original epic cinematic quality.
This is yet another attempt to normalise failed digital imaging that made the Hobbit feel so unnatural by matching LOTR's look to it rather than the other way around.
It's such a missed opportunity, to preserve the last great films that will ever be made.
Me !
@@yoyoman87110 Visiting hours are over I'm afraid
The thing is. There's a massive amount of scenes that are not 100% in focus. And this is very well documented that happened. Is the fact that 2nd, and 3rd unit direction would be under extreme pressure to finish scenes. Then those scenes were sent over via satellite to Peter Jackson. But the control process was bad, since the technology and time to control such amount of scenes was simply not possible to do in such short period of time. No pixel peeping possible, sorta speak. So those scenes are indeed the cause of bad camera focus due to delivery time pressures. Andrew Lesnie would be at the helm of 1st camera along with Peter. But not commanding the other units.
I love what Peter and Weta did making these films here in NZ but for me these come second to actually reading Tolkien himself. Your imagination fed by the master of english, old, middle and modern will trump anything presented to you on a screen, especially apparently when it is smudged by this DNR technology. 📖
Original Predator had massive filmgrain and I think it got a couple bluray releases and one of them was so heavy with the noise reduction that it was like watching wax museum figurines instead of people. I'd be really interested in you checking out how the UHD bluray of it is.
I was one of those unfortunate schmucks who bought the waxy Predator Blu-ray. Carl and Arnold look like badly photoshopped figures in it.
UHD Predator was done very well. Made up for Dnr Blu-ray version, Ultimate version, wax people
@@Trojan0304 Yup
Yes, but 4K Predator looks amazing. Film grain is still there. Tons of it. It's a crazy grainy movie. But it was like that since 1987.
DNR is really unnecessary
DNR is retarded thing to do to movies shot on 35nm or 70nm film
@@RobertK1993 We waited years for the removal of the green tint in Fellowship EE and get THIS abomination! I'm extremely angry at Peter Jackson!
Thank you for all the work on this channel.
Thank you for your comments on this channel.
@@vlcheish Thank you for your replies to his comments on this channel.
Whoa, is this from the brand new release from last December that everyone is raving about? I just don’t understand how, the DNR is terrible. The fact that I can tell on my 6” phone at regular viewing distance is very telling. Very unfortunate, I’ll pass on this set.
Peter Jackson should be ashamed! Mots people these days are streaming their shwos and movies. We enthusiasts are the only ones buying physical media and he decided giving us this abomination!
Grains make the details on film no matter how good dnr you use it will always destroy details and the temporal one used here is terrible
Alright, I'll bite.
Let me start by saying that I do agree the DNR and Edge Enhancement applied to this transfer was a bit too aggressive and most certainly created distracting artifacts that should not be present.
However...
You've used terms and phrases throughout this video like "reference quality" and "what film should look like" as a way to infer that the EE and DNR are inherently impeding or interferring with what the picture "should look like". I believe this is a false assertion, especially in this case.
Your assertion that DNR equates to this transfer NOT being reference quality is in direct contradiction to every other mantra you have surrounding "creative intent". It was Jackson himself who chose to apply this DNR; if it were Warner Bro's who did this independently from Jackson and didn't ask his permission, then I would be inclined to agree with you on every point here. But to me, creative intent (especially when coming directly from the creator) trumps my own views and others views on what they consider "reference quality" or "what it should look like".
Now I obviously have no problem that you feel the DNR or EE were negative things; that's perfectly fine, in fact, I agree with you on a few levels there. There is nothing wrong with wanting a film to look how it was originally shot. I only really have a problem with the fact that you've implied that this transfer is by your own metric "not reference quality", when by the creators metric, it is.
I feel especially strong about my view on this for a few reasons
1) Peter Jackson has ALWAYS said he wished he shot these films in digital, even back in the mid 2000's - he simply did not have the camera tech available to do so. These are, to him, spiritually digital films.
2) The Lord of the Rings is an almost excessively CGI-heavy trilogy, I'm basing this off memory, but I believe something like 80% of all shots on the third film included CGI, maybe more? Don't quote me on that. So, these are incredibly digital films by their very nature. Therefore a filmic look was never a staple aesthetic of these movies. They've always been VERY digital-looking.
3) You apply the logic that DNR and EE impedes what the reference picture should look like, yet openly welcome HDR as something that enhances the visual experience. When in fact, HDR is also a technology (like DNR) that changes what the original image looked like when it was filmed.
4) DNR most certainly can and does scrub detail from the image, but it also applies a degree of consistency to the images overall aesthetic. Jackson wants these films to feel visually and tonally consistent. He wants them to look clean, and they do. But just because something looks clean, it doesn't mean it's going to have more detail.
Now, I'm not trying to mince your words here Vinnie; I'm sure you're not radical enough to go as far as to hate DNR; if I were a betting man, I'd even say you agree that DNR has its place in certain applications in film. But the moment you began saying this image isn't reference, was the moment you were essentially saying Jackson's vision here isn't reference.
Which I don't agree with. I believe it's reference quality. It's just not perfect reference quality.
Whether something is reference quality or not is not determined by the creator, but by critical viewers and listeners. Uwe Boll can’t just say Bloodrayne is reference quality, and expect Vincent or anyone else to just accept this ridiculous claim
@@HNedel About a year ago I remember reading on a website/forum about the new 4K scan of The Thing (1982); basically it was a fresh new transfer that John Carpenter and the original cinematographer did for Arrow Video, it was scanned from the original camera negative and given beautiful treatment. This was a once in a lifetime opportunity for this film to finally get a real treatment, with the real creators behind it. But something had changed. The entire transfer was now less blue and had a bit more of a natural look to it, it was frankly a warmer looking image compared to what they used to look like on the old blu-ray.
Well, you can only guess what followed from some tiny subset of purists... Let me tell you... The head/creator of this website went on an absolute tyrade about how "The Thing is meant to look more blue!" and that they've "ruined the colors and it's not true to the original!". This guy had the audacity to tell the creators of the movie they made, what their movie was supposed to look like. He even went as far as to say "they're old and can't remember what it was supposed to look like".
Wanna know what Carpenter and the cinematographer said? They essentially said: "it was always meant to look this way, only now have we had the chance to finally do it."
Take from that story whatever you want. For me, I take it as a mantra of sorts; that you don't have to like what the creator did, but you do have to recognize that it is their vision and a true purist would respect and trust what the creator has done. You can respect these changes and not totally love them at the same time. It's not mutually exclusive.
I'm not taking shots at Vinnie here either, nor am I implying he's anything like this guy in the example I used. But you've got to recognize this was Jackson's vision, he wanted visual consistency so he applied heavy DNR to solve this, and therefore it is reference quality Lord of the Rings, because it is to Jackson, what The Lord of the Rings is supposed to look like.
@@LaserLips2 i am never going to respect Peter Jackson for what he did to this trilogy, same way i am never going to respect George Lucas for his alterations in the original star wars trilogy. That’s a fact.
Besides, changing color palette is one thing, removing grain along with all the details is another. You can still change the color settings on your tv to mimic the original look, you can adjust noise reduction to get rid of the grain, but you can never get back the details that were destroyed by DNR
@@LaserLips2 LOTR Trilogy never had all the dnr, ee when it was originally released in the cinemas 👍🏾
Jackson started adding more and more artificial dnr and ee on the physical dvd, blu and 4k releases.
So no the LOTR trilogy 4k blu ray isn't faithful to how it originally looked 👌🏾
The running animation as they are exiting Moria. They are little figures running at 2 fps. SUPER WEIRD. I am sure the animation was the same in the normal movies but I never noticed it then.
That was always the case. Much of the digital/cgi was not great and stands out a ton more today. I remember discussing it with folks back in then when folks were talking about special effects houses with prequel/Lucasfilm vs LOTR/WETA .
Yeah this is really my only complaint. The HDR grades are tasteful and do not go into the realm of revisionism imo.
But DNR stops the transfers from being as good as they could have been. Why is it still being used? Because the public hasn’t been educated about film grain.
We had this problem with letterbox bars. Many studios continued to release pan & scan version of movies on DVD because most people were ignorant about aspect ratios and complained about the picture not taking up the entire screen.
Today most people understand why the bars are necessary for 2.35/2.39:1 movies or anything shot in an AR wider than 1.77:1 (16:9) as well as bars on the sides for anything narrower.
I see people complain about the picture on OLEDs because they blame their TVs for the grain! Another problem is that the average person has their TV on the Vivid or Standard presets which has the sharpness cranked way up in addition to edge enhancement and noise reduction which exacerbates the grain and makes it look worse.
I absolutely HATE it when someone invites me for a movie watch and I immediately notice motion smoothness cranked up to the max and VIVID colors.
'I need to max everything to get the best quality'
@@jeroenschaafsma138 yeah very similar to people inviting you to play a game e.g. Catan and they play by "house rules" completely decimating the fun of the person who is actually familiar with the proper rules
@@folx2733I can abide a little bending of the rules, a little motion smoothing sure I'll stay still.
Crank it to the max and I'll open my mouth lol
Peter Jackson has gone off the deep end, just like Lucas and Cameron. Take a look at the footage from his new Beatles doc - totally wiped free of 16mm grain. Like wax figures.
I watched the 4k Bluray in Dolby Vision on my OLED and agree. Great HDR, some bad dnr and what I interpret as some upscaling artefacts in certain scenes. Of the three films this one was the worst picture quality wise. Overall still a must have for LotR fans.
I would rather watch the Blu-ray discs. Fellowship non EE of course.
@@turrican4d599 The DNR is frustrating, but I think the color is much more accurate and better looking on the 4K discs. That's something that's inherent to every scene. The DNR waxiness comes and goes. Just my opinion.
@@turrican4d599 The sound mix and color correction is so much better on the 4K's that it basically made the blu-rays defunct. The DNR is really not that bad at all.
Warner bros hope you read this:
I believe Warner Bros. has missed the true potential for these LOTR remasters. I'm sure there's an overall improvement to the new remaster in some ways. Many are displeased with the changes of the original colors and filters which (as imperfect as the blue colors might've been) made some of the largest contributions to the visual aesthetic. However, there are obvious mistakes that transcend taste and artistic vision. These should seriously be fixed as LOTR is a true piece of film heritage/history.
As far as the visuals go, Warner bros., consider fixing the following and the like:
1). Reduce or fine tune the scenes with noticeable DNR which gives a "wax-doll" appearance on people's faces and some of the cgi models. The effect goes in and out of being detailed and glossed over.
ua-cam.com/video/ba1F0hyMvr4/v-deo.html
2). The overly accentuated sharp outlines. It doesn't work with many things like buildings and bodies. Even in motion it's too much. Tone it down where it's too obvious.
ua-cam.com/video/ba1F0hyMvr4/v-deo.html
3). Black crushing. Yes it seems to be there.
4). Digital artifacts either appearing or disappearing like Gandalf's staff and Shadowfaxes ears.
ua-cam.com/video/I3Z58uiwcME/v-deo.html
5). The prologue scene with Erebor. The color scheme is not as bright and colorful anymore. It's way too muted. Seeing the regal majesty of Erebor is a major incentive for the viewer to sit and watch the journey...but now it doesn't carry that awe-inspiring sensation as it did before.
6). The green screen effect in the ending of The Return of the King. The blue sky color is actually extrapolated too much compared to the original to make the background more visible. It also completely changed the light hazy and pleasant color. This actually pulls the audience out of being immersed by the scene appearing as if the actors are standing in front of a blue screen. ua-cam.com/video/LGNeKTf1_p4/v-deo.html
7. (This is my biggest gripe personally). Fix ALL FLASHBACK SCENES in the remasters, especially with Arwens visions. The drastic color REMOVAL changes the visceral emotions of the scene. ua-cam.com/video/I3Z58uiwcME/v-deo.html
Warner Bros., there are many other issues being found on these remasters. It's in need of review, and in need of quality control because some scenes are frankly disappointing. But it's not too late to make this one of the greatest remasters of all time. We live in a time where it is possible to fix these for everyone. Modern video game companies do this all the time after making an official release and thereafter catching/ fixing errors or glitches. With the digital version of Blu-ray discs being made available for download there may be a door of opportunity for correcting the obvious errors. So please, kindly, review the remaster and fix the issues being pointed out.
I agree
I'm happy with my BR EE-Trilogy... The boxset as well as the bluray-menu are way prettier and way more noble as with the 4K Blurays
BR has the worst color grading ever. Horrible. "4K" color grading is superior to any other version.
@@stevemuzak8526 Disagreed. The colour grading is incredibly bad.
I’m still happy with all of the 4k versions. My favorite movie trilogy of all time!!
I watch the Blu-ray discs instead: film grain intact.
@@turrican4d599 Have fun with your bad color correction and non-atmos mix.
The way people worship film grain makes me worried about humanity in general. It's disturbing how zealous these people are 😂
@@Sif3r There’s nothing zealous about it, it’s about preserving the image in it’s purest and highest quality form. Besides, what’s wrong with people liking grain in an image?
@@provablegrub4581 grain isn't purity, its a deformity. Yes, they're zealous. They're like a religious cult.
There's nothing wrong with liking it and I never said that either.
Warner Bros messes up again
It was Jackson who made this choice -- Weta/Park Road Post Productions did this transfer. Jackson wanted the films to be visually consistent across the board.
Shame on Peter Jackson. First he approved the green tinted Fellowship EE and now this abomination!
Been a while since I watched them, but thought it was the standard cut that had the green tint not the EE?
@@mettana7448 the extended bluray of Fellowship had the ugly green tint. The the theatrical bluray has the original color grading.
Damn, now I just can't but see that DNR searing. Won't be buying this trilogy on 4K anytime soon. I hope they someday release the set without that DNR. In the meantime, my DVDs and Blu-rays will do fine.
The 4K still looks better than the Blu-Ray
Marginally better.
Damn! I was so hoping they'd preserve the original grain... It's beyond me why they do this. Terminator 2 Judgment day was unwatchable for me for that same reason, as well as for the stupid new color grading. It ruined one of my all time most favorite films which otherwise would've been a fantastic 4K experience.
I hate the color grading:
5:38 for example, why are the rocks teal? It seems like they've increased the saturation overall which in a NORDIC setting makes everything look tropical. In the northern hemisphere because the sun has more atmosphere to travel through and often more clouds to travel through everything becomes more blue/desaturated. You would never see teal on any rock in Norway for example, that's the kind of color you might expect on a rock in a jungle or a rock that's under water. Watching Frodo and Sam in that landscape, it could easily be some mountain in Brazil.
1:59 is another example of bad color grading, everyone knows that objects that are far in the distance becomes more desaturated. Yet those mountains are very blue, it's not an appealing blue either but a greenish blue. No doubt some HDR artifact. It looks unreal.
As someone who plans to work with hdr content in the future these videos are very informative and educational. I loved when you pointed out colors outside the 709 range. Thanks for the work you do as a hdr evengelist!
Question - i have a LG Oled C8 and when viewing LOTR in Dolby vision it looks much less vivid and clear compared to say the 4k hdr trailer by warner bros - wasn't sure why on the same tv input the clip with hdr looks better than dolby vision?
Considering it’s quite rare to see another version(preferably a high def original film re-scan version) 4k release, it’s a letdown. Dnr use on 4k blu rays should be kept at minimum as there are a lot of video enthusiasts among the ones who buy 4k blu ray these days. Yes, this version is still very good, but a legendary series like LOTR need more attention to detail.
Dude most people buying 4k blu rays don't even know what DNR (digital noise reduction) is 😅
We are among a tiny niche group that wants our 4k blu rays to be faithful without any dnr and ee added.
LOTR Trilogy 4k blu ray isn't very good. It didn't even have a 4k scan of the original film negative for the three films. It was a sloppy remastering by Peter Jackson!
@@C--A Thanks for a thoughtful reply, and I agree with most of your comments. The reason why I said enthusiasts should be respected more is that people don't buy blu rays these days. It's mostly streaming. So, compared to the past, the proportion of the niche consumers among the blu ray consumers has grown. Therefore, even though the enthusiasts are still a niche group, their voices should be heard a little more.
the coloraturas retouching is also very inconsistent. hair colours change scene to scene etc... all the magic is sucked out and the blu ray (with correct colours) is still the benchmark on movie night for me
Peter Jackson mentioned that they tried to make the two trilogies have a similar aesthetic. Maybe that's the reason for the DNR since The Hobbit was shot digitally?
YeH he did say that and I think your right
He should have just added digital grain to The Hobbit. The LOTR films look great, the Hobbit trilogy is the one that feels out of place.
@Cryer24597 Because of film noise? Wow. If you ask almost anyone that didn't like the Hobbit movies, I am sure that is not even in their entire list of complaints, let alone at the top of it.
The scene with the flag was shot accidentally it wasn't meant to be Flying, but after they cought the scene decided to leave it since it gave deeper effect.
That's pretty cool. Good acting on her part then!
There Are so Many. Like Gandalf hitting his head in the Bagend and Aragorn kicking orc helmet in two towers.. in both cases actor did continue and it did stay in the film! Many Many more Little thing during the three films!
That's not true, that's a hoax. Of course, this scene was intended, just the way the flag is flying and falling down was luck.
@@SolarstromAG need to do some research before comenting mate, that has been confirmed from the producers.
@@haukionkannel That's cool, these are great actors after all.
I'm loving the youtube compression artifacts.
That shot of Legolas looked wonky even on 35mm prints in 2002. No excuse for the DNR in the 4K discs, but still, that shot has always looked that way.
i blame the hobbit trilogy
Peter Jackson has the George Lucas syndrome. George ruined Ep1 for the same reason.
I don’t care what anyone says, I LOVED The Hobbit trilogy extended versions to be exact. Not as much depth as LOTR but damn they were good movies.
@@turrican4d599 I liked the prequels as well. I honestly don’t understand the hate.
@@Mr.Honest247 I meant the pq
I personally don't feel de HDR hype, I watch my movies in a dark room with low brightness settings. I prefer really good contrast and perfect blacks (all hail OLED) rather than unnecessary bright light thrown at my eyes. And yes, DNR sucks, however I prefer using it at 'low' just to get rid of the random junk pixels made by digital cameras, especially in dark scenes.
My ears are better than my eyes so I was happy to trade-off an atmos track for some bad DNR. Still don't understand why film grain needs to be removed completely from everything.
I honestly didn't see anything wrong, even in the parts where he said it looked terrible. A side by side comparson to what it should look like would have been in order.
that's because you're not cursed with a critical eye for detail, and in this case that's a good thing
Might have a lot to do with the screen you are watching this video on and the quality you are streaming at.
They should have allowed you to toggle off the DNR or release the "preserved" remaster in the full box set or something. Jackson wanted to force the LOTR trilogy to visually match the fully digital Hobbit trilogy, which was originally shot in 5k. But I think this was a mistake. Even older films presented in UHD and HDR look better, even with obvious film grain. Hell, that just adds to the intensity of the texture and detail. That's part of what I loved about watching the LOTR trilogy in the theater, how raw and tactile it looked, it almost felt like a documentary shot in Middle Earth. This was something I felt was missing from The Hobbit trilogy. I couldn't help but feel disappointment watching this new version besides the HDR, I didn't really see much benefit going from HD to UHD because of this. Then I'll pull up a film like Goodfellas or Lawrence of Arabia in HDR and just be blown away by the detail, even though they are older films. Those films actually look like UHD to me, which LOTR really pretty much looks entirely like upscaled HD film scans vs actual 4k scans (I'm aware the FX shots had to be upscaled, I mean all the footage, even the actual 4k shots).
Holy shit, the temporal filtering used here looks as bad as on most modern smartphones.
That's terrible!
funny i watch at 720 and below
The regular Blu-ray editions (and subsequent HD streams) of these movies had a MAJOR problem where the extended editions had completely different and incorrect-looking colour grading compared to the theatrical and DVD editions - something I have always assumed to be a mistake.
I am assuming this is resolved this time around, meaning this is my only way of watching these movies in HD with the right picture (more or less), given I prefer the extended editions.
Any observed differences between these versions? Also, does watching without HDR enabled basically give you a consistent picture with the old cuts?
There are no differences between the two theatrical and the extended cuts when it comes to the colour. The extended cuts look a little bit better, as they are less compressed (because they are spread across two discs).
Watching it without HDR enabled, it still very different from the older cuts, because the HDR component is still there, it's just that the player is tonemapping it to SDR.
First world problems on steroids
I have to agree. Why reduce noise so aggressively when part of the charm of these movies is that they were shot on *film*. Also, is it plausible that three different teams worked on the three movie conversions, resulting in the differences between "Fellowship" and "Two Towers?" What will we see in "Return of the King?" Too much noise reduction, and all those battle scenes will turn into Smear-O-Vision™.
thats why we have 44rh1n and Dremastered edition, also u can easly take audio from 2020 version and merge it to 2010/2012 with a bit of work :) ive done it with recolor edition 2012 BR and im so happy with a resoults
If I'm being honest, TLOTR trilogy was my most anticipated 4K release of 2020, and It took a downfall. Despite the DNR issues, it actually does have some great coloring from the HDR, and The Fellowship Of The Ring no longer has that green tint from the EE Blu Ray, so that's a bonus. And the Dolby Atmos sounds so incredible, which is usually the most important for me. So is the 4K version perfect? Definitely not. There were times that I thought they were 2K upscales because the DNR was really bad in the last two movies, but otherwise, they're not great, but not too bad either.
LOTR trilogy 4k blu ray is a 2k upscale. The same 2k digital intermediates that were used for the ancient blu rays years ago.
Jackson never done a new 4k scan of the original film negatives for the 4k blu ray release.
@@C--A false
Color Restoration by 44rh1n has the best colors, as on DVD.
I suspect this won't bother me too much as I generally dislike filmgrain to begin with.... However it is wrong to remove detail from the original image. Either way still looking forward to rewatching these in HDR on my CX. Finally got the blurays in the mail after a month of waiting on target to avoid paying scalper prices on Amazon...
Its quite hard to see what you mean through the youtube compression even on my 65" display, for anyone not seeing what VT means, the best part to see it is when Legolas stops moving his face after turning to the king, it takes a second or two but then the detail reappears. Hope that helps, it will be hard to see on a small screen so definitely don't strain your eyes trying to see this on a phone.
Is it a 4k tv? If so, you're watching a blurry mess. This video is only available on 1080p max, so if you have a 4k tv, youtube compression combined with your tvs internal upscaling will ruin any 1080p signal you're watching.
It's really obvious on my 55" CX. Was the HD version maybe not available when you watched?
I just watched the video on my 27" 1080p monitor and I could see the blurry image of the faces as they turn to talk. So not a 4K film to buy for my 65" sony oled. Shame, as I really like the films on blu ray.
@@pwd1134 It's pretty obvious. I was like where is the detail in this 4K film and then he stops moving and all the details show up.
The ew blurays look so flat. Its like they sucked all the depth out of the scenes by adding too much clarity to the foreground or something. Makes the background look like set painting
I hate HATE DNR and it was obvious in some scenes in practically the whole trilogy. They could have done a much better job. Not saying the 4Ks are terrible, but they're not amazing either.
I didn't realy mind the noise reduction, there are much worse errors in the two towers which are quit funny (maybe annoying to some). But for me I just laugh at it and keep enjoing the movie. I think the 4k master is realy good and I did enjoy a new viewing expirience. Sure i would have prefered Film grain. It woudl probably make the movies even more beautiful in 4K then the flatt digital version we got. It was Peter Jacksons vision, not much we can do about it.
If you watch films on a HD projector, bad film transfers stand out quite easily. The LOTR trilogy is not one of them. In fact, it is one of the best series. These films offer the offer amazing depth, contrast, light, clarity add almost clinical detailed. Yes, some scenes are processed and slightly blemished, but overall, not much else compares.
a projector will never beat the sharpness quality of a 4k tv or 1080p tv, a projector uses a lens that can cause uneven focus or chromatic aberration that can affect image sharpness
A little bit of DNR is not such a bad thing. It can have the benefit of getting rid of chroma noise and other anomalies introduced by the scanning process. And when done right, it still leaves plenty of natural-looking grain in the picture. This is NOT one of those times. IMO, this is right up there with the Predator UHE and the T2 UHD in terms of how badly it destroys the picture. And it saddens me that this is what these movies will look like from here on out. So glad I hung onto my Blu-ray sets.
In Return of the King, the shot of everyone riding towards Rohan has some of the worst DNR I’ve ever seen. It almost looks like they sourced it from an old 360p aXXo avi file.
i watched the movies like 100 times but still a second before clicking the video i feared i might get spoilert by the video xs
Peter Jackson trying to erase time.. sad.
Great video! Another issue with the 4K is that the Atmos track is simply the same old DTS audio but with a noticeable bass cut. It's most apparent in the Balrog battle.
Thank you Vincent for another wonderful video! I am learning so much. Your review is an apt assessment. For the exhorbitant price the LOTR triology is selling for on 4K, is should be reference quality and it is not.
I think it's great. 9 discs with good HDR and Dolby Atmos in one package.
It doesn't feel like a fantasy film at all anymore.
The Bad Taste, Meet the Feebles, and Braindead 4K scans are stillborn. They Shall Not Grow Old, LOTR, and The Beatles: Get Back are unwatchable. How could a director have such terrible visual sense? And ultimately, DNR and upscaling programs will only get better over the years, so these uses of them will age horribly, whereas a normal 4K scan will always look how it fucking should. Awful shame.
Can confirm, the DNR is VERY sloppy in various scenes. Picked up the UHD 4K, just watched fellowship and two towers and even a normal/not picky person like me noticed it. I will say that the better coloring, beautiful clarity and sound do outweigh the sloppiness of some DNR scenes.
Great video Vincent - would love to see you compare some of these DNR UHD blu rays vs 1080p blu rays - sometimes the colour correction in UHD's are also far too pushed teal/orange etc as well.
I just don't understand why people likes grain in movies. Film grain is a by-product of shooting on physical film, they were never intended (excluding few movies OFC when they specifically enhance it) and on 4k it is even more pronounced and distracting.
Every "true cinephile" will berate you for hating grain in old movies, bunch of snobs if you ask me. Give me clarity and colors every time
While it's not perfect it's still the best versions of these films available
Yes they are.
It's not. The Blu-rays have more detail in many scenes, even if the color is wrong.
@@jon4715 yes
@Adam H7: All 4K Blu-rays are invariably the best they've ever looked... does that mean there's no point reviewing them?
Our objective in any review is to present all the pros and cons of every product we test without any sugarcoating, not only for potential buyers to make an informed decision, but also for manufacturers/ content providers to improve in the future.
@@hdtvtest I completely agree with that. I'm also not saying the review is unnecessary, I even agree with it, they did go too far with the DNR.
HARD agree. I did my annual trilogy rewatch recently with the new 4K transfer. I love how the colors and brightness of the world has been accented but the lack of film grain bugged me from start to finish. I don't regret spending the money, but I might go back to my Blu-rays for subsequent viewings even if they have "worse" picture quality.
I haven't seen it yet on 4K, did you say it doesn't have any film grain? Because if it doesn't you just made my day! I hate film grain in movies!
@couldn't think of a username This. Fact of the matter is, LOTR was shot on film. You’re never going to remove grain in post, without completely ruining the look of the movie by artificially smoothing over the image. If you want the look of digital, shoot digital. Trying to make a movie shot on film look digital is only going to give diminishing returns.
@@trancepower1205 Then you don't know your facts. Film grain gives texture to people and objects in the movie. Without it, it looks like garbage.
Me watching in 360p:
*mhm yes I see*
Two towers is the worst looking of the 3 IMO
Even to my untrained eye, that noise reduction was pretty obvious when we watched them. I almost did a double take and checked that my LG Oled wasn’t upscaling a 1080p signal. Really odd thing to see on a 4K movie.
yep. this has bothered me in all three of the movies. my favorite shot, when the Rohirrim arrive at Minas Tirith, that camera moves down the reveal their entire army under the sunrise, it looks SO bad now. and its so heartbreaking. they used to be 3 of the best looking films ive ever seen, but now they look like over-produced CG putty.
Two Towers (extended) seemed the worst offender with one of the most obvious use of DNR, followed by RotK (extended), which is a shame given the other improvements you've highlighted.
A shame about its noise reduction.
It's still the best version of the films by far and overall this seems like a minor issue to me.
The Blu-ray dics are better.
@@turrican4d599 Sorry but I'd rather have good HDR than mostly irrelevant film grain, and I can guarantee most people would pick this version as superior in a side by side on HDR displays. It just isn't close.
So disappointed by that. Peter really has a phobia of film grain it seems, just look what he did the The Beatles Get Back 16mm footage, crazy smoothing
What’s so bizarre is that Peter Jackson seemed to want this effect. He wanted to make it more in line with the appearance of the Hobbit, I think so that you can binge them all in one go and not be jarred by the change in style. Seems like that was a terrible idea. He should have kept it as true to the source as possible imo, but maybe we’ll get that in the future. I highly doubt it, it maybe. Still, this seems like the definitive way to watch, even with the DNR. Every other aspect of the film seems just so far ahead of previous releases. Cannot wait to buy it when the collectors edition comes out this summer!
Does the regular extended blu ray edition have this same HDR implementation? I'd be fine with the 1080p bluray if it had the HDR youre speaking of in this video but without the upscaling maintaining the filmic originality.
Sadly, no. Those versions also have weird color settings that make the whole thing look overly green or blue, depending on the scene. So frustratingly, there is no "definitive version" of these films. You either have film grain but bad colors, or no film grain and ugly DNR but fantastic colors.
@@kaptenteo yes it's really sad but I don't mind the DNR if the HDR colors are great (and they seemingly are).
Did Peter Jackson get involved in the creation/mastering of this Blu-ray release. His recent work on "They Shall not Grow Old" attests to his commitment to getting the best results regardless of the source material. What happened here ??
Too Little time...
Hopefully director sees this on UA-cam a freaks out. I think Peter Jackson actually might care.
Didn't he approve this? It was the same with the EE BD of The Fellowship: The fans were angry and Peter Jackson claimed, that it was his idea to make the movie this green.
Yeah, no way he is backtracking on this one, especially when there are so many people even here who hate grain and think the movies look great that way
I wish there was a way to add DNR as an after effect that would be on by default and people could just turn it off. You can use your TV but older screens don't have it and I totally get why people hate film grain. Use to be in that camp but not anymore.
Great work! Thanks a lot! Any chance for a reference Dolby Vision native 4K disk review? :)
Jackson made the same mistake with The Beatles Get Back. Unfortunately it was shot on 16mm so the DNR looks so much worse than LOTR
Just watched the Extended-Bluray trilogy in Dolby Vision recently, and with videos like this (pointing out DNR) in mind, this confirms that it was the right decision buying the BD over the 4k trilogy recently. DNR shouldn't exist on 4K BD.
Uhm...what? 1080p bluray version is not in dolby vision hdr.
@@Weezzer008 On my 4K BD player / tv it is apparently 🤔The notification shows in the upper right corner and it seems like a brighter and punchier image. Maybe it's a bug😃
@@Weezzer008 It's a sony uhd player though, and the resolution is set to 'automatic', so who knows if it's forcing a brand of 'fake' hdr/dv. In any case, the cx is picking up on something, and i'm not complaining image quality-wise.
@@darksunwithin blu ray doesn't have HDR or Dolby Vision 🤦🏾♂️
To watch the LOTR trilogy in Dolby Vision you need a compatible 4k blu ray player and a compatible 4k television with Dolby Vision 👍🏾
@@C--A I have both. Yet when i put in standard bluray discs, my 4k tv displays the dolby vision logo in the upper right corner ... 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
So did they not go to the negative and just restore the movie?
They either did but then removed all the details with DNR, or they just used the available intermediate from the bluray releases, applying some color correction and mapping