Getting Laid Off (Fired): USA vs. The Netherlands
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- Опубліковано 1 тра 2024
- Layoffs are back…but it’s A LOT harder to get laid off (or fired) in The Netherlands (Europe) compared to the USA...this is what a social safety net looks like.
In this video, I’ll talk about the differences between The Netherlands and USA including:
- Layoff process (settlement/severance, Dutch rules)
- Healthcare (USA vs. The Netherlands)
- Unemployment benefits (USA vs. The Netherlands)
- Visa situation for foreigners
Plus tips! Hope this helps and if you get laid off…know that you’re not alone and sending you my best wishes.
David
📌 Note: I talked to dozens of people who got laid off + legal professionals for research. I cannot speak about my own agreement for confidential reasons.
⏰ CHAPTERS:
00:00 Intro
01:02 Layoff process (NL vs. USA)
07:11 Healthcare (NL vs. USA)
07:59 Unemployment benefits (NL vs. USA)
08:54: Visa situation for foreigners
09:29 Recap
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😁 WHO AM I?
I'm David, a Californian living in Amsterdam. I make videos about life in the Netherlands.
What have your experiences been with layoffs or getting fired in The Netherlands, USA, somewhere else? Tips & advice? Please share so we can help each other 🙏
***CORRECTIONS***
- Max unemployment in NL is now 24 months (down from 38)
Well.. i got no other benefits from laid off.. just.. poof.. you are done, go away.. take your stuff back home and cry in the corner of your bedroom. Sayonara.
And I've been struggling since 2 years ago now.
There is a program from our government that somehow help unemployment with training benefits, but the regulations are always changing and the process is so confusing that most of people who got laid off never take consideration to participate in that program.
I'm from Indonesia btw
And how I got laid off is.. it's mass layoff. I've got no severence/settlement agreement at all, since I just barely touch 1 year of service. But my friend is also didn't receive any even though they already working for 4-5 years.
There are many suspicious stuff going on when that mass laid off happen, and we barely have any time to take action because.. sadly, those mass layoff happened too quick (2 weeks - 1 month) and we didn't have any union.
In Japan, it is similar to the Netherlands. It's difficult to layoff people but they can reassign people or ask to do work so much not great that people wants to leave. Usually, it ends up with 2 months salary.
For the healthcare, we lost the work healthcare ... but healthcare is mandatory, so people need to subscribe to the city healthcare. This system is from the American after the war.
The max time of the uneployment benfits is 24 (38 was in the past bud abandoned like ten years ago).
After 24 months you can apply for social assistance benefits but only if you have limited means.
After having lived and worked in several continents and many countries, my main advise would be that you should always look to minimize risk: be it by insurance, be it by savings, be it by any other way that covers unforeseen circumstances. Before starting any kind of new job/ work / asignment, think of what it means if you would lose the job or asignment and how that would cost you. So that in case it does happen, you can move on without financial trouble or minimum loss.
LEARN DUTCH! I find many Expat friends who lose their jobs and want to stay (say because of love) can't find a similar job because they don't speak Dutch and end up working in cafés. So when you really desire to stay learn Dutch. It hugely widens you job opportunities in this country.
Helemaal eens!
Also generally it's just kind of disrespectful to live&stay in a country and not learn the language, right?
@@stormpetrel5645 Also true, except in A'dam that's often hard, given the amount of expats. ;)
Also if you want to live somewhere it’s pretty weird if you don’t try to learn the language in my opinion. It’s a form of respect.
@@KootFloris bruh another reason why 020 is worse
As someone working for the UWV in the WW department this is quite accurate and well explained. Thanks for the appreciation!
Thanks! And appreciate you and UWV..I called a few times and the UWV was always very helpful and empathetic…which really made a difference for me. Thanks from the bottom of my heart, really 🙏🙏
Hey Co-worker, didn't you notice the mistake he made? It says a max of 38 months of WW, but it is max 24 months. #lerenenverbeteren 😀
Dutch here. I have been layed off due to "performance issues". But at the moment my employer had decided that he wanted to send me off, I approached him with my own unhappiness. So that was actually a very good conversation. We agreed on some terms, and I went looking for a new job, while continuing really contributing to the business as well as I could. So no bad blood. A few years later I approached him as a customer. He sold some stuff I needed. So we had a cup of coffee over my new job and came to business.
Sometimes things happen. That is painful. But taking that out on anyone doesn't help anyone, least of all yourself.
Thanks for sharing this success story. It’s good not to “burn bridges” and maintain good relationships
@@hidavidwen Burning bridges is never a good idea. When you're young you think the world is endless. It is not. If you do, you'll find out rather quickly and harshly that everyone knows someone who knows the guy you had your row with. Specialized professional communities are rather small.
I worked at a company where i had to fire about 60% of the people after the first internet bubble burst and we would still have roof bbq or party each year and invite all. The fact that all of them still showed up to have a beer and chat is something i am proud of instead of having them escorted from the building.. If i see it in a movie i always shake my head...
@@scb2scb2 With this strategy, the bosses buy so much loyalty from the remaining people, and also they can still approach the old if needed. There is even no need for the harsh security.
@@joopdesmit Indeed and it also signals that in these cases it was nothing personal or even something that the company by its nature wants todo. If it was personal or 'bad acting against the company' we would not invite you.
"In the Netherlands most companies provide healthcare." - I'm Dutch and I've never heard of a company that does this in my life. Is that an expat thing? p.s. Love this video David! Very fun.
A lot of compagny's had an arragement with a insureance compagny that gave you discount. It was pretty normale up to a couple of years ago when they changed some laws. The payments where done mostly directly from your salary. I guess he still had one of those.
@@arturobianco848 This is all option, keep that in mind. You do not have to use this. My employer does this as well and in my personal situation switching my insurance to their provider was more expensive so I did not opt in.
I think he's talking about 'Collectiviteits korting'.
Many larger companies will negotiate a deal with a specific healthcare provider to cut on the cost of healthcare.
You are free to go to any other healthcare provider.
Healthcare is not a company, private thing but mandatory in The Netherlands, whether they deduct it from your salary or not. It might be (I'm not aware of it) that for foreigners you need to get a personal insurance by paying a lump sum annually or a monthly sum and there is not salary (automatic) deduction obligation for the company, although I cannot really imagine why that would be. It is all 1 system where the health care is the same for all.
I actually get fully reimbursed for my healthcare insurance, basis + aanvullend.
Which is weird, because I work for an American company, but for a Dutch entity of it.
Not complaining though
Layoffs in the Netherlands are generally better arranged than the ones in the USA.
While in the USA, I was still working for the Dutch company I used to work for, when I was living in the Netherlands. Then COVID hit and I thought it would be over for me immediately. Especially because I was self employed and was technically speaking not an employee. They only let me go when COVID lasted much longer than anticipated and with a couple months notice. All in all, I kept working for them until 13 months after COVID hit. For a business that only has customers in hospitality that pretty much shut down completely during those times, it was a pleasant surprise and something that would never happen in the USA.
They are ALWAYS better arranged....
@@AlexK-yr2th arrogance or ignorance?
Tax rate in the Netherland also way higher than the usa
Thanks for sharing!
This was something that showed at my new job as well. There is this annual survey (now that I write it I can't remember hearing or reading about it for more than a year now ;) ) held at work, but as the company I work is active in 3 countries around the world (including the USA), everybody was a bit struck to see that 'we' (the Dutch branch of the company and main office of the other branches) scored just 60% at overall satisfaction, while the US scored something like 86%. Questions were raised during a short talk about where the company was and was heading to and why this was such a big difference. One of the people in command (or at least high up in the hierarchy) said that during COVID, hardly anyone was laid off (not in The Netherlands or anywhere else) even though the market basically had come to a standstill.
As US citizens are used to being laid off easy, they were significantly more satisfied with how they thought about the company than us Dutchies, but I was struck by how big the difference was.
It's also good to know that when you get laid off, the UWV does not only take your last job into account, but rather all the jobs you had in the past 10 years. So if you worked at a company for 3 months and they lay you off, the UWV will use your employment history of all your jobs before the one you got laid off on as well.
After 2 years of unemployment the 75-70% salary thing also stops btw: you then get only the bare minimum (bijstand).
Thanks for sharing. That’s very useful to know!
thank you for the explainer! if all goes according to plan, I'm graduating by the end of the year and then I'll need to know the ins and out of the job market, all about changing from student to worker with the IND, etc. hope things go great for you, David!
You’re welcome and thanks, good luck on the job hunt!
Correction: Dutch companies DON'T pay your health care. They sometimes have a 'deal' which is often shittier than getting healthcare yourself. Also: when people are let go, a common package in tech can be: a few months of pay and some help to get a new job.
Either way.. the system a is bit too good to be useful and only works because most Dutch people don't know their rights. It's way too strict and hard to fire underperformers
You can always negotiate health care compensation. You’re as strong as you present yourself.
No most companies don’t pay the healthcare insurance, but a lot of them have an agreement which gives you collective discount on the additional health insurance and the dental insurance. They are not allowed to give a collective discount on the mandatory basic health insurance. The collective discount also counts for other insurances you have with your health insurance company. In my case I got a 20% collective discount on my additional health insurance and 15% discount on my dental insurance. Because I also had a home insurance and property insurance with the same insurance company, I got a discount on those insurance premiums also. The bigger your company, the bigger your discount. On top of that I get an allowance for my healthcare insurance from my employer through the Collective Labor Agreement (CAO), of about €20 a month. But there are conditions attached to the allowance. So it is good practice for yourself to be aware of your CAO, read it and act upon it. I had to point out to them that they owe me a healthcare allowance, they don’t give it to you without applying for it.
Depends on the company and the industry you're in. Most companies I worked for in the past had a good collective discount arrangement or discounts on the additional package. Similar with pensions.
Thanks for sharing. I did mean that companies don’t pay but do have collective agreements.
Sad to hear you lost your job. Lucky though you're clearly a person that knows to make the best out of it and thus we got this amazing video :)
Thanks for the kind words, means a lot 🙏
In addition: you can simply become a member of a trade union such as FNV. They will help you in the event of dismissal with legal assistance or a lawyer, at no cost. They also help in conflicts with your employer.
It’s not at ‘no cost’. Membership isn’t exactly for free.
@@EGO0808 The membership for FNV is (atm) capped at max 19.22 a month. This can go through your companies HR which means you don't pay taxes over the membership. When you are a member the costs of the lawyer, if you need one, will be paid by FNV. I highly recommend finding a Union that fits your line of work if that is possible. Remember companies are not your friends.
@@thejdi all I was indicating, that there are always costs incurred, nothing is for free.
plus unionbusting virtually doesn't happen since we have robust anti-unionbusting laws
I'd advise against that. FNV is up to 93% retired and their views on employment are archaic, right out of the 1970s. I had so many disagreements with them because I enforced safety laws, while in FNV's view, killing someone (like in Voorschoten) is quite okay. Also FNV is strongly against your interests if you're younger than 55 years.
When confronted about how his work broke the law and contained two possible fatals, one FNV member told me, quote: "I've been doing this for 30 years! I won't be lectured by some 30 year old! I'm going to call the union now!" before he began crying and ran outside, not being seen for 3 days.
Until some thug came up to me on the railyard and inquired who I was. Turns out he was from FNV and the thug wanted to 'discuss my disrespect'. I told him this was unacceptable and make an appointment via HR, then asked the thug to leave. He refused and claimed he had a right to be there. I told the thug to leave. He refused. I told the FNV thug he was now tresspassing and force would be employed to move him off-site before police would be called, and if he resisted he'd be detained until police arrived. (I worked security and army before ending up there, so this was fairly easy, but it would've been intimidating for most people what FNV did)
Grudgingly the FNV thug left.
This later became a legit talking point of theirs "Why isn't an oldie allowed to kill co-workers?" and "Why can't oldies and union thugs agressively scream at people?" were things that FNV somehow disagree on. They threatened strikes if the guy who was trying to get co-workers killed would be fired.
The company I worked at folded under the pressure. Their safety record remains abysmally bad and they've had fatal accidents since.
Your employer will see their presence as an unwelcome intrusion of third parties, as well as a sign that you're incapable of even handling a situation, permanently shuttering your chance of coming back.
FNV is only an option if you feel you legitimately lack the mental capacity to conduct anything by yourself, or you're nearing retirement.
First of all, I wish you the best of luck in finding a new job. I really like this video of yours and I must say it is well researched what the laws and rights are for a person who is fired or fired due to illness, this information is very important.
Thanks, I really appreciate it 🙏 Layoffs are tough and something could happen to all/many of us (business is business at the end of the day)…and I know many can feel helpless because even though there is “protection” (laws)…it’s still quite complicated
Hi David, I really enjoyed your videos, and I am so sorry this happened to you. Sending you luck and positive energy for finding a position soon. Please reach out to the community if you need help or resources. We are here for you!
Thanks so much, can’t tell you how much this means to me 🙏🙏
Hey David, I hope you'll find new employment soon. But regarding lay-offs in general, the Netherlands unemployment laws at least help you for a short while. If you lose your job in Luxembourg though, you're covered extremely well, and for a much longer period. Your health insurance is sponsored by the state for the period of your unemployment benefits 😊 I wish you all the best ☘️
If you earn below 37.000 euro a year in the Netherlands you also get up to 123 euro a month back on your health insurance from the goverment.
Thanks for the kind words 🙏🙏
Wow this is pretty complete guide. Very solid information here. One little correction; max unemployment pay is 24 months at the moment. They changed it a while back from 38 to 24 months
Good catch! Thanks will add to description/pinned comment when I find time 🙏🙏
I am glad you showed the whole story, including the party hats they make unemployed people wear so everyone can spot them. It's not all sunshine and roses, you know.
The hats are the worst.
He forgot the most important part that is the difference in tax rate. What he calls free is payed thru tax and absolutely not free . So basicly you pay for everything youreself and also for every bum that doesnt want to work.
😄😂😂🙏
You should make a video comparing with Belgium: after some 20 years at my current job, severance is a bit short of 3 years, healthcare is and remains free and unemployment payment is not limited in time
Wow 3 years severance?! That sounds amazing
Hi David,
Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Sending positive energy, hoping you will be able to find a new job to your liking soon.
Thanks so much 🙏 so is life…appreciate your kind words
Great video. There are stark differences between the US and Europe. I am originally from Germany, and like the Netherlands, a company cannot just lay you off because they think they want too. The laws are pretty strikt and safe for employees. It goes even further, as the government even pays for university and more to get you onto a new career paths.
In my case, after high school, I went to trade school and later University to become a telecommunication specialist and worked for the German Post/Telekom. Than I quit my job and moved to another part in Germany, during the German Post became privatized to the Telekom we all know today. However, during that time, thousands of people lost their jobs (in a human way) but because of that, I couldn't get a job at my new destination. So the German Arbeitsamt offered me to get a Masters degree in IT when I go for 2-3 years to University. They not only paid for University, but I also got a monthly check to pay for rent and living expense...ah yes, and health care is free in that case anyways. After finishing my degree, I got a great job at Siemens. This helped me a lot in my future careers and I am forever grateful for that opportunity. Thank you, Germany!
In the US, I was lucky to have worked for a very "social" company. They got acquired by a competitor and laid off a lot of people, including me. However, they gave me 2 month head time, plus a nice package. However, during that time they re-hired me and kept the overall time I worked with the previous company as my start date, giving me the benefits like more vacation than if I would have started just now.
Overall, the German/European system is awesome for the employees. It also pushes companies to hire more cautiously and with more future in mind. However, it can hinder fast growth for businesses as it is way harder to fire somebody. Also, keep in mind that the employee is bound by the same rules. You cannot just leave from one day to another. You also have to let the company know 1-2-3... month in advance that you are going to leave, so they have time to find a suitable replacement.
Well explained
Thanks for sharing, it makes sense. I’ve also heard from business owners how hard it can be to let go of an actually bad/toxic employee…so there are pluses and minuses
Great vid again. I am certain you will find another job you like soon!
Thanks for the kind words 🙏🙏
In Belgium minimum settlements are determined by law. Longer can be given and can be done with e.g. mass layoff. I worked at 1 company for a year, Mass layoff and I got 7 months. Next company, a year. 5 months. And both explained that if I were not with a Union, it would be best to become a member of any Union, so the Union will handle your unemployment benefits. In reality that means you get payment directly instead of trying to get it done all by yourself. In one situation it took me 9 months to get the money. Yes, you can join at any moment in your life, and unlike a gym, you can easily leave as well.
When I was in a position where I had to fire people, I told them that as well. Imagine that: the company that fires you advises you to become a Union member. No company in Belgium really cares if you are a union member (elected members is different) as all have equal rights. And you can join and leave at any moment in your career. I even had one company who paid the union fees back.
Thanks for sharing how it works in Belgium 🇧🇪 🙏
I am no expert, but there is a few wrong assumptions here. I don't think its true that it is illegal in the netherlands to fire someone without good reason. However, firing someone without good reasons means the company is forced to pay. However, should an employee be fired because of good reason, the employee is NOT entitled to severance pay or anything else....
Thanks for sharing. I didn’t say it was illegal. But I do work in the HR world. There are always different reasons for firings/layoffs. Some legal. Some illegal. And if it does go to UWV/court, the company better have good reasons to do so. Valid legal reasons
Nice video, thanks for sharing!
Thanks and you’re welcome 🙏🙏
My dad used to work at a bank in car fleet insurance and they kept trimming people in all departments and then the financial crisis hit and the bank had been too sloppy, needed help from the gov and needed to lay people off. But due to how forcefully the layoffs needed to be, the severance was massive. He got 3 months pay per year worked or something crazy like that, walked away with a bit over 6 figures, started his own company.
PS: We also have Bijstand/participatiewet which is sort of like jobseekers allowance, you will get a small amount of money while you're looking, depending on some factors which doesn't have to do with the WA. That is really quite a tiny number though, so while it works as a net to keep people off the street, it's certainly not rewarding.
There is a so called ‘maximale transitievergoeding’, which is € 94k. If your year salary exceeds this amount, the maximum ‘transitievergoeding’ will be a one year gross salary.
@@EGO0808 Quite possible that the whole reorganization at ABN Amro was the reason for installing that max? Can't say 94k is insufficient so fair enough.
Wow 3 months per year worked…glad to hear it worked in your dad’s favor and he was able to start his own company (blessing in disguise!)
Sad to hear you were let go. It's good to be prepared and never sign right away. Regardless of the benefits and safety net in the Netherlands losing your job has an effect on your mental health. I hope you find a new position soon. Take care.
Thanks for the kind words, appreciate you 🙏
small glitch at 2:01 idk if its easily fixable but thought I should mention it, other than that great video!
Thank you! 🙏
I've seen a lot of college's go, but thank god I am still in the place where I am at. 10 years now :) Great job with a lot of freedom and where people know how to act with my autism.
Hopefully I won't need this but thank you. And hopefully you'll find a position quickly.
Great video! Sorry to hear you lost your job, and I hope you are able to find a new one here okay. I am currently working my first job in the Netherlands and have a 1-year contract (with opportunity to continue with mutual agreement). I sometimes get really nervous about whether I will be let go after that year. But my Dutch friends assure me that 6 months into the job I would have an idea that they wouldn't want to keep me on board AND I'm told that they have to tell me whether they will continue my contract in advance so I have some time to look for a new job.
Thanks and for the kind words 🙏 yeah I’ve seen people get permanent contracts after half a year or when the year is almost there…if you are doing well that is
Best of luck!
In 2014 I got laid of by the Army due to budget cuts, so I started working for the UWV 😅
Thanks! The UWV were very helpful to me…I called them several times…and each time, they had great customer service.
I really appreciated it…especially because most people who call about this stuff…well they are most likely going through a hard time. Thanks! 🙏
David, best of luck with getting a new job!
Thanks for the support! 🙏🙏
I am dutch but dont have much working eperiance as a adult there,
I worked at supermarkets and fast food, they work on a temproary contract. And after 3 they are not allowed to give you a 4th so its a permenant contract or you just stop working there.
When i finished my education i moved out since the systems that catch you are great, the culture i find is not.
I understand coming from the US how the Netherlands can be a breath of fresh air.
Good luck in your goals and i wish you all the best!
Thanks for sharing! Hope you are well wherever you are
I hope you are okay and find a nice job soon 🧡
Aw thank you 🙏🙏
Im dutch, and so far have only been laid off once. Unfortunatly, at the time I was working freelance, so I did not have regular protections. I was working "fake" freelance (only single customer, not multiple) and could have sued for benefits, but I work in a pretty good market and found a job through friends/colleagues within a month.
In other positions once I had regular employment I've not been laid off, even when the company was troubled, since it was too much effort for them to set up so they just keep you on anyway.
Thanks for sharing. Yeah freelance has its pros and cons. Good to hear you work in a good stable market 🙏
I'm Dutch, and your videos really help me to appreciate my own country more. I know Dutch people who want to leave because they think it's "boring" here. I'm not sure if most Dutch people know how good we have it here, we're a people who love to whine and complain.
Thanks for the kind words and glad to hear they have given you a different perspective. I also appreciate these comments because they help me gain a new perspective/appreciation too. Take care!
Is the company allowed not to offer you a new contract if your 1-year contract, for example, expired, and do not pay for all these? IDK how it works but really curious.
if you have a limited contract.
yes, they don't have to pay you anything when the contract ended.
because in that case you don't get fired, they simply decide to not hire you for another period.
additional information about temporary contracts in The Netherlands: a company is allowed to offer you 2x a 6 month contract and one 1 year contract, after that they either have to let you go or hire you with an indefinite contract (a contract with no end date, so if they later on do want to fire you, you will have the right to all those benefits)
this is so companies don't work around the law and keep people on those temporary contracts forever.
@@ChristiaanHW I think they changed it to a max of 3 contracts or a max of 3 years for temporary contracts (whichever happens first) or else indeed it automatically flows into an indefinite contract.
Also fell victim to a restructuring in Germany. Notice periods there are more generous with 6 months after 15 years worked. Health insurance the same as in NL (actually the Dutch system was introduced during the German occupation in the 1940s. After the war the Dutch simply kept it).
One thimg one had to be cautious was the severance package. If one opts for more money instead of garden leave then unemployment benefits will not be paid during the time of the legal notice period and also reduces the months of benefit payments.
Thanks for sharing 🙏
Had exactly the same experience in the NL. Did not sign the papers, went to Rechtswinkel in Amsterdam for advice, got a lawer and got money in my bankaccount for 3 months from the company and three months from the government. I was working just one year in the company, they fired my because of financial problems within the company.
So you didnot sign and received money? Smells fishy.
@@EGO0808 Not signing the companies proposal and relied, with help of de rechtswinkel, on the general laws in the Netherlands that apply to all, both employee as well as the employer.
No signage required, nothing fishy about it. We have rights here, not benefits, we are not an American extension and the US laws do not apply here.
@@AlexK-yr2th Noone gets paid a dime, if they don't sign the agreement to terminate the contract. Of course, one could agree after negotiating with the help of any rechtswinkel (mind you, they are not lawyers or attorneys, in most cases they are in Dutch 'juridisch medewerkers', they stand no chance against experienced law firms) to get to an agreement, resulting in a financial compensation, however this needs to be signed black on white in a so called 'beeindiging arbeidsovereenkomst'. No signature means no money.
Thanks for sharing! 🙏
Excellent video David. Very good information.
But you are not completely (or partly) right on the details. The notice period is not (always) set by the number of years but by contract or both. And a good compensation (rule of thumb when you end up in court) is you get paid a month of salary for every year you worked there, especially when you did not have a bad annual review, which gives you a good negotiation position.
In case of a reorganization, you can go much further because your lay off is a way for them to make more money or loose less and you should not carry the burden of that. And do not forget to have them pay out your days off and other gravy you have a right to, even in future (some bonus, tantième, profit share are based on the previous financial year and are basically paid a year later; you don't loose the right to those either). Even when, for example, you go on 3 months (paid) garden leave, those 3 months you have a right to the above, including all social insurances. Most people forget about these completely and agree to a final settlement that excludes these.
This might be a good time for you to move out of Amsterdam and experience the real Netherlands. I strongly suggest to orientate on the Eindhoven region where a lot of jobs on the International market are available (the region is becoming a Dutch silicone valley, without the mountains I mean) and Brabant is so, so, so much better to live in than the Randstad by far. Your costs of living will also reduce substantially.
Myself, I been laid off a few times as well and never walked away with less than 6-12 months salary, apart from the bonusses and tantièmes. Like you said, do not agree with their (first few) proposals and don't hesitate to openly discuss going to court if their proposals are not satisfactory, specially when you never received a bad (annual) review or they didn't provide any indication. The court will look at all these things but also the fact that you are a foreigner that will end up in a bad situation (and the employer is (or needs to be) aware of that). They took the responsibility of hiring a foreigner and have to accept the consequences that it will cause visa problems and/or relocation expenses of some sort. They cannot wave their responsibility by trying to be the judge and jury in their own court.
These "rules of thumb" as described above and the reason why the company decides to lay you off for are a huge consideration to the court. The company knows all this and will push you to the max but are totally aware of what a court would decide and have to cave in eventually, not risking having to pay all the legal costs and damages they (might) cause when the outcome is basically always the same in the Netherlands. Even in case you have a 1 year contract, for example, and they want to lay you off after 6 months, they have to pay out the full value of the contract, since the risk for the company is already limited to the duration of that contract that is solely a benefit to them and not to you.
Thanks for sharing 🙏🙏
Correction, it depends. In Belgium if you are a public servant, it is mostly impssible to get fired. If you are an employee, you can get fired for cause without severance (must be a vallid lawful reason), or you can get dired with severance defined by law. So all depends how deep their pocket's are
Thanks for sharing
I'm so sorry for you David. I hope you'll find a new job very soon.
Aw thanks for the kind words, I really appreciate it 🙏🙏
I am Dutch and experienced layoffs severaltimes. Depending on your situation, this garden leave is not very beneficial, because you are financially better of with the unemployment support plus the transition fees of your form employer. Second, ALWAYS get your self a lawyer, who is specialized in "arbeidsrecht" . You can get an affordable insurance (rechtsbijstandverzekering) that will cover a lot of these costs, but you need to contract the insurance at least 6 months before the event happens and if you already know, they will not help you.
Thanks for sharing your experience 🙏
My wife was lucky enough to be laid off in the US (Minnesota) while she was on maternity leave and was thus able to receive unemployment for one year while raising our son. I could include both of them on family health insurance. We called it “being laid off into Sweden”. Now that son is in graduate school in the Netherlands. How are we so fortunate?
Glad to hear your family was lucky and fortunate enough. Good luck to your son and family! 🙌
Best of luck with whatever you want to do now!
Thanks for the support! 🙏🙏
David- I enjoy your channel and hope you’ve landed on your feet. You enjoy life in the NL so it would be a shame to depart before you’re ready.
( an aside- I do chuckle a bit anytime someone in HR gets laid off. A bit of schadenfreude, no doubt).
Thanks for the kind words 🙏 I enjoy it here too
Sorry to hear that! Good luck on finding your next opportunity! I am glad you mentioned that most expats/foreigners/etc. who are not European (and of course not American!), do not have the luxury of staying in the country more than 90 days to look for a job as they are basically tied to their job to be here! Of course, it is totally understandable but sometimes I feel like it does get glossed over a lot and creates misconceptions for local Dutch on how "easy" most expat s have it here
Thanks for the kind words 🙏 it’s not easy to be a “foreigner”…some people uproot their entire lives, build a new one, and then everything gets taken away…the emotional toll of that can be catastrophic
@@hidavidwen True! I really hope and believe you will find your next step soon!
Bank gave me a big bag of money, to get rid of me after 23 years (normal amount after such a long time). I would have preferred a job fit for my skills and the correct pay, but they refused both. They also paid for outplacement (because mandated by law). Very weird vibes and lots of frustration in those online meeting (due to covid). Luckily I was between jobs for only 3 weeks.
Yeah I can understand the frustration and after 23 years too…but good you got a big bag of money and found a job soon thereafter 🙌
In those online meetings, we (4-5 people per teacher) looked like a segment from the movie "Up in the air" (2009). Getting fired really is one of the most devastating events in a person's life.
Do you have to leave the Netherlands when you get your benefits from the UWV and your visa is not sponsered? Because that's a payment from insurance and therefore still an income. After the period of your UWV unemployment-benefits ends people have to go to the city for a welfare income (Bijstand/Participatieuitkering). That's an income directly payed out of taxes and this can be refused to foreigners (depending on your situation).
That depends on what kind of "visum" you have. Some will get you kicked out of the country if you ask voor welfare. The wellfare people are by law required to send a signale to the right autoritis if you do that whith that kind of visa. I had to do it couple of times when i worked in that field.
@@arturobianco848 unemployment benefit isn’t considered or defined as welfare.
Thanks, I am not entirely sure as I haven’t experienced that but maybe someone else can answer?
I did call UWV who said you can still get unemployment benefits as long as you have any valid visa (whether it’s company sponsored or entrepreneur)
You do not always get 90 days to search for a new job if you are on a visa, you will get it only if your residence permit hasn’t expired, which it does if the contract was signed for a one year for example (very typical), and the residence permit is given for the same amount of time.
So when I was losing job for example, I almost got no time to search for another one.
Thanks for sharing this 🙏
Everything has pros and cons. Maybe it's harder to fire someone in Netherlands, but this has a lots of cons: potentially higher taxes (processing complaints from former employees by government offices or courts costs), potentially lower salaries (companies have to include extra "cost" of firing), potentially fewer investment and job opportunities (e.g. tech companies prefer lower-tax lower employee right countries like US, China, in EU Poland or Estonia is often chosen).
And in those countries it's also pretty easy to be prepared for being fired: just save some of your salary for the rainy days, don't spend it all.
I knew back in the day, my dad got fired for no reason at all. But thank god he got to keep the deal for the house and also 100K from the place he worked at. Sadly both my parents were bad at money spending. So it went to waste. But I am seriously happy our jobs are safer to keep.
Wow that sounds like a nice deal..100k
I'm sorry to hear that you got laid off, David, especially around your birthday. That sucks. I also think that you're so very smart that it shouldn't take you too long to find work elsewhere. Best of luck to you.
As for me, I've been living and working in education for 24 years in the Netherlands and have gone through several issues with this, which I'll briefly share. I also want to add that after five years I was allowed Dutch citizenship, which comes with extra perks as well.
When I was young in the States I began teaching in secondary education then later moved on to the university level. But never having achieved tenure depressed me to the point that I left to teach internationally. When I moved to the Netherlands my US degrees were evaluated by Nuffik, which I believe has been since replaced by other selfsame agencies. Anyway, through them I was only granted to teach HBO, which also depressed me because I'd had my heart set on teaching at Leiden U or UvA (Amsterdam).
Regardless, because my Dutch was almost nonexistent when I first moved here I began teaching at lower levels. This inadequacy I corrected and advanced to teach at higher levels, which I'd felt I was more suited for. Regardless, I was playing the contract game, meaning that according to Dutch law you can be hired under contract for two years, but your third year the company or organisation is required by law to offer you permanent employment. In other words, fully employed individuals are harder to get rid of. 😉Thus, the contract game, which is when a company will renew your contract for two years and then won't the third year because of then having to hire you permanently. I did this with three different schools, where one would hire me for two years and not the third, but their affiliate would pick me up for their two years and so on. Finally, the last educational organisation I worked for had HR convincing me that I would finally be permanently hired my third year with them. But guess what happened? Yes, the global market crash of 2008 that affected the worldwide market.
So, I didn't get the permanent contract promised me entering my third year after all. Instead, I went through the 10,000 euro revalidation that you speak of in your podcast. However, I didn't personally receive 10,000 euros. Rather, a revalidation centre of my employer's choice did. And the worker assigned me took one look at my degrees and resume and said that, according to Dutch standards, I was suited for education and the government wouldn't be spending money on me being retrained for anything else. So, the money was pocketed and I was told to set up a solication schema. Gosh, was that advice worth 10,000 euros? 😝
Meanwhile, the government subsidised rent, insurances, etc. And I didn't go on bijstand, which another commenter suggests here, because I was married to a Dutchman who also worked. But bijstand is also possible for you, yes. And it is your right.
So, happy severance! I'd also suggest that since our European weather is now improving for late spring/early summer, go travel and/or enjoy the beach before reapplying for work again! And then you can really have a happy birthday! 🎈
Thanks so much for the kind words and the support, means a lot to me 🙏
Also for sharing your story. Gives me motivation and hope! I’ve always wanted to work more with university students…whether it is giving guest lectures here about certain topics and there or just talking to them…would I need to get another degree for that?
And yes looking forward to spring/summer!
If you haven't already done so it would be good to get your degrees accessed by a bureau that does this in the Netherlands. Since it's been awhile that I'd had mine done I couldn't tell you who does it now, but you can Google it.
You need a PhD to teach at the universities here, but don't shy away from the HBO's. They're also good to apply at for short- and long-term teaching posts. The lyceums and gymnasiums too are full of VWO students on pre-university tracks. And you could apply there to teach mini-courses in your field. You never know who's interested in you and what you have to offer until you try, right?
0:35 That bitterbal is genius 🤣 Good luck with the job hunt though. Protection against lay-off hell may seem blissful compared to the American system. Some parties, like employer unions, state employers are more reluctant to hire people if layoffs are so expensive, and it may cause foreign companies to be hesitant to open up shop in The Netherlands. I'm curious about your perspective!
Haha hey at least I can still have my bitterballen 😄
I don’t think foreign companies will stop business in NL because of the labor laws…there’s so much more to that. But from what I’ve seen in HR here, some companies decide to get leaner and reduce full-time headcount but hire more contractors, more temp workers, etc
You are very well protected in the Netherlands. Good to a certain extend but also challenging for companies. Imagine really having a bad functioning person. It is really expensive to get rid of such person. Calling in sick is often abused to prevent being kicked out.
This might result in high pressure on the rest of the team. Or imagine having a small company then these additional cost can really have big impact on an organization. You might have to hire a second person while you only have 1 FTE.
Thanks for sharing. Yes good to point out that there are cons too..I know business owners who told me that they have a toxic/poor performer but they simply cannot get rid of them and it’s hurting their business…
A key element of a Performance Improvement Plan (PIP) is that it should be mutually set up. Meaning the plan needs to contain elements/input from both the employer and employee. Often this is not the case, the employer simply generates a PIP with, typically, unobtainable milestones and KPIs (designed to get rid of the employee). This PIP will not hold up in court, thus often works to the benefit of the employee.
Thanks for sharing, yeah I read that it’s one of the hardest ways to get rid of someone if they go to court with the PIP..
Hey David,
Really sad to hear about your situation. Keep up the good work and you will get through this.
Although there is some benefit for people coming from the most developed countries for job in Netherlands and off course working for 5 years in a permanent job, this privilege is not available for many people. I am personally badly impacted by the complex “employer” friendly rules. I had worked in a temporary contract where i was assured for 10 months that i was performing well, until when time came for renewal of my contract after an year, I had been kicked out with only 2 months to find a new job coz my visa was tied with my employment.
There is no law to protect people in one year contract to stay and get a job with sponsor in Netherlands and its a sad reality that people in such situations have to crush their dreams and goals and leave the Netherlands. With that all the hopes of feeling the Netherlands as home also crashes badly.
David, if you ever get a time, please research and make a video to protect people who go to Netherlands with one year contract job and their contract are not renewed for some reason of the employers. I wish that noone goes through the pain that i had to face & protect many future souls having beautiful dreams in their eyes to live their lives and make it big in the Netherlands.❤
Thanks for sharing and I can understand your pain. It’s not easy to be a foreigner..to have your life taken away all of a sudden…you’re not alone. Unfortunately it’s what can happen in business :/
I hope you are well and that you’ve found peace wherever you are 🙏
Healthcare in NL is just not tied to your employment, it does not mean that some companies might compensate you for the premium. The biggest difference is that everyone gets to pay the same premium for the basic healthcare coverage that is already covering almost everything (discounts through employer are very minimal and you might still opt for insurance outside of employer plan as it could be cheaper). In the US insurance companies use employment as a way to get healthier people so they can offer affordable premiums. If you try get insurance without a job, the premium will be sky high. Insurance companies need to do this, because there is nothing to protect them from only the sick people getting insurance with them. That does not exist in NL because EVERYONE must be insured and is paying an affordable premium.
Thanks for sharing 🙏🙏
about 10y ago I got fired for automating my job, which would make about 10 employees including myself obsolete. My boss told me it would be cheaper to fire me and to not implement it than to pay those 10 people their unemployment contracts. That math obviously doesn't check out but my point I guess is that there's a gray area here.
Thanks for sharing. Hm yeah doesn’t make any sense..I would think that would give you a bonus or promotion but yeah..don’t know
@@hidavidwen I guess it is because they had almost all been in the company for 20 +- years, that makes it very expensive. I was only there for half a year. My math; +- 320k a year less in costs but it might've been up to 600k in unemployment costs, idk their contracts. I dont think I needed to get fired though :')
Have you done a video about getting your first job in the netherlands? I’m an American looking for work rn in the country
Not sure which line of work you're looking at, but there is a Dutch recruitment firm called 'No Milk Today", that has an office in USA as well. You might want to contact them, if relevant.
@@EGO0808 Thanks for the suggestion! I’ll look into it
Thanks for asking. Nope but I think that’s very contextual…depends on so many factors like your profession and what you do. A lot easier for a software engineer vs. say a teacher
I networked. I would say I had a good CV (work experience) and of course luck.
To me
I just get told 1 month ahead my contract won't get extended
I still work for those 4 weeks while looking for a new job
Thanks for sharing. Yeah if one has a temporary contract, there isn’t much one can do
@@hidavidwen it's not like i find it bad
i am already happy i get to hear it in advance and i can find simple jobs to work at if i want to work there
Today, it can be quite a hassle to keep staff within a reasonable budget. Laying off isn't a theme, the unemployment levels are lower than published openings ... more openings per unemployed. It is a tight employment market these days.
Thanks for sharing 🙏
To compare being fired in the U.S. and the Netherlands, you'd have to address the specifics of each U.S. state. Laws vary across different states.
True thanks for sharing this 🙏
You can still have the American way here in the Netherlands.
Be a zzp (independent contractor). You are paid an hourly rate, and make more money. But you can be laid off easily, unlike if you're working for a company. Being sick means no pay. And no work is no uwv (unemployment benefit).
You are taking the risks. Still having the dutch healthcare.
Thanks for sharing 🙏 yeah freelance/entrepreneurship has its pros and cons but of course more risky
@@hidavidwen Do not do that, Entrepreneurship is way different in the Netherlands then other places in the world. the tax is very high, but you are a EXPAT you would say, sorry that isn't the way it works, British EXPAT had different rulings, cause they were part of the EU. US expat usually go broke when they start a business in the Netherlands paying double tax (dutch and US tax) unless you come in with a different immigration status (which most US expat never asked for or were offered).
The Freelance can work but again really study the way you came into the Netherlands and the US rulings that upholds it, so your 5 year in the Netherlands might be counted as 0 years cause of the US rulings. while technically anybody living in the Netherlands for 5 years can become a Dutch Citizen, thus all Dutch safety and security net applies to you then, cause of the US expat ruling you are not eligible for it.
I don't think the 'us vs them' is a good representation strategy - in general. It's good to get representation, and if the severance offer isn't realistic or fair, they should be able to correct that. But allow for the fact that employers may actually offer a fair compensation. Aggressively trying to get a lot more might trigger your employer to dig in all well.
Btw: any additional training or coaching costs may legally be deducted from the transition payment by the employer.
Thanks for sharing. I think the best negotiations benefit both parties but what I hear often is that it is a lot of “us vs. them” whether it’s employers trying to save the most money or employees trying to get even more. Thanks for sharing
workers council isn't something that can decide on the decisions of how and why letting people go. its more on an advise basis rather than a deciding factor.
Thanks for sharing
Your parts about healthcare in the netherlands isn't correct. Everyone who lives or works in the netherlands must have the basic insurance policy. (basecare package) You pay this yourself. You are allowed to insure additional add-on packages if you want. But its not mandatory. The basecare package is mandatory.
What employees do, is that (especially if they are large) they negotiate more favorable rates for the add-on packages of health insurance for their employee's. So that if you take the health care insurance as arranged by your company (where the company acts as a go between for you and the healthcare insurance company), you pay a little less, as opposed to when you would go the insurance company directly.
But usually its only a few percent. And depending on how your insured yourself, you could get those discounts yourself as well without going through whatever your company is offering you.
Because some insurance companies offer more then just healthcare insurance and offer package discounts if your take out more insurance policies with them for other things. Things like house insurance and stuff. So it pays to check.
They way you explained it in the video, and some people in the comments, makes it seem as though the company provides/pays for the healtcare insurance. But this is not true. The only thing they can do, is through the power of numbers negotiate discounts with existing healthcare insurance providers.
I am aware that with some of the larger companies their HR departments can arrange things for you, especially with Expats. But that simply means that they arrange insurance on your behalf. In those situations, its easier for them to pay the insurance fee for you, and deduct the amount from your salary. But its not mandatory as far as i know. And in those cases your still paying the full amount (the premium as you call it). Its not like the company insures you for 600 euro a month, deducts 250 euro from your salary, and pays the difference themselves. At least, i have never seen a dutch company offer those kind of perks. So if they do, know that its definitely not standard.
In my experience, healthcare is such a personal thing you will want to be in control yourself. Besides the base package which is standardized across the nation, the contents of the add-on packages can differ wildly between insurance providers. So depending on your personal needs, the package that your company provides might not suit your medical needs. So always take a good look at what your getting, beyond the price.
Thanks for sharing. Yes I meant that many companies arrange for health insurance but don’t pay for it. But I’ve also learned not every company does that for you. Thanks
A little extra note on unemployment benefits, there are some conditions you need to meet before you can get that money from the government. you need to have lived and worked 5 years in the netherlands and you need to be actively searching for a job. The government will stop paying you if they find out that you’re not actually searching for a job and just collecting unemployment. It’s in my opinion a great system and i still consider myself lucky for being born here. You pay your part of your salary to the government, they fund the needy ❤
Thanks for sharing. You actually only need to have worked the last 26 out of 36 weeks to receive unemployment benefits
David, don't know what kind of finance you do but, heard ASML was looking for some financial people. Not my line of work but grapevines work in mysterious ways.
Thanks for the kind words! Doing some (life) reflection somewhere in nature at the moment to think about next steps
Note: when want to finish dutch college, you're required to have an internship, lets say; if your intern employer fires you, you dont get the same help as normal work, instead you either do the schoolyear over again or you quit school.
Moral story: internship sucks, just go for a job and even if you dislike job interviews, it still is better than being exploited on the intern job.
I would say the moral of the story: Work hard, learn well and exceed expectations, makes you a winner. Who wants to be a drop out or loser?
Thanks for sharing. Oh yeah interns…another story…they also get paid like almost nothing (€4-500/month for full-time work) but do so much…
Good luck with finding a new job. I don't know your specialty but the job market is still going strong at the moment. Getting a company to be your sponsor could be harder. Small companies don't want to do all the paperwork. Please keep us posted. If you have a relationship with a Dutch person he/she could be your sponsor so you have more time to find a new job.
Thanks Rudie, appreciate it 🙏 Will do, I really appreciate this community and want to to continue contributing here and making videos so I’m trying!
nver laid off, just be aware there is a maximum of employnet benefit in NL. It is not 75% of your salary but that salary is maximized.
Thanks for sharing this 🙏
The laws we have are indeed great, but there are extreme negative effects.
You can literally work with a colleague who should be fired straight away, but if management or HR doesn't have the time for it... their employment will just continue and you will just have to live with their mistakes. And you will then have to correct their mistakes. It really stifles progress.
Getting fired without a good reason should be unlawful, but the result is a lot of freeloaders, who barely do anything, but can't get fired.
Thanks for sharing. I definitely know that side too. I’ve seen and heard from business owners and decision makers…there are always pros and cons
Great video, hello from Russia. Living in Europe is much better, although Netherlands is quite pricy, I think. How's the cost of living there??
expensive and then double that and then you have the netherlands cost of living
Heey I know there are some Russians here as well that make videos.
I think it depends to what you are used to. Its more expensive then Russia most likely but the salaries are also higher. It also depends where you decide to live in The Netherlands for example in the city itself or more just outside of the city. Technically The Netherlands is almost like one big city with some more quiet areas but still has shops and everything you need. Its not like countries that are larger in size, so you don't need a car. The minimum wage income right now has an hour income of 13,27 euros an hour, which depending how much hours you work is for 38 hours: 2191,51 euros(which is 219.659,87 rubels) a month that you earn. I believe that the most common income in our country is € 3.783 a month which is 22.020.276,82 rubels . The costs are also depending where you buy your food for example. The housing situation is not at its best at this moment because young people want to buy or rent homes, but we have a lot of pensioners and elderly people like other countries have as well. Which causes a housing shortage at this moment. It makes the prices higher then they were before, but 20 years ago this house that I live in costed 195000 euros, now it costs 327000 euros (but it is in the city). The rent depends if you chose social housing or normal rent. Social is for people that have a lower income so they pay less which can be between 300 (30.000,72) to 700 (70.149,28) euros a month depending how new the apartment is. Regular rent is more expensive and is between 800 and higher. If you need you can get help if you don't have enough money to spend so you pay less on rent and healthcare insurance. I only have to pay 32 euros right now on my health insurance. In simple words most people can live easily here. When I look around everyone is taken care of.
greetings from The Netherlands :)
@@Blackadder75 What double what?.
can be expensive depending on where you live and how you work. But generally it is higher than many EU countries
It all depends on liefestyle and income. I know (expats) people living in Moscow and the costs of living there far exceed those of Amsterdam for example. It all depends on your current residence in comparison.
Just wondering, as an expat you don’t pay income taxes like the rest in the Netherlands correct? If so, I feel it’s a bit unfair that an expat would benefit from the certain (not all of them) social benefits if you get laid off just like the people do that do pay all of the income tax. Since it’s tax money that pays for that.
Who said expats don’t pay taxes? I pay taxes like any other person who works here. The same
once i was working for a company with a permanent contract but i felt very unhappy there. when i came to the conclusion that the problems are not solvable i got in contact and asked if we could agree on a contract to stop the employment. So both parties agreed that there is no good in continuing. meaning i could get UWV unemployment benefits because i did not quit (you wont get those benefits if you quit your job yourself) and that company also offered me to pay me 7000 euro on my last day. all without a lawsuit.
Thanks for sharing, sounded like you had successful negotiations 🙏🙌
@@hidavidwen i more want to point into a different direction. It is very american to always fight for the best outcome for youself. This is often not the way to go in Europe. An employment is a relationship. it involves humans not only business and profit. You do your best for your company and try to support your colleges and bosses often try to create a good work environment for you. When you have problems you often get heard and if possible helped.
The other way round, if it is not going well or as expected, you often can just get in contact and talk about the situation and options and find a way together where both the employer and you can split in peace. That often even helps when applying somewhere else. you can get honest positive reviews because your former employer does not have the feeling you just wanted to fuck him over. And former colleges might remember you and help creating opportunities in the future.
I have a good relationship to all former employers and that helped me finding work opportunities that in the end paid WAY more than the best lawyer could ever negotiate for me.
Sorry to hear you lost your job, hope you find a new one in the Netherlands ->> I would be sad to miss your UA-cam video's about this country!
Thanks for the kind words 🙏🙏 I also want to continue making videos, appreciate the support
Very similar story as what happend to my foreign girlfriend. Was suddenly scheduled for an appointment, no info on what it was about. I warned her in advance she may get laid off, and told her not to sign anything and not get involved in a discussion. Just listen. She was indeed laid off and pressured to sign severance immediately. "because that was better for her". Fortunately she remembered what I told her. Given she was very emotional about it and didn't work at that company very long yet, and didn't want to go the legal route, she eventually took the deal. Later she got critiqued by the UWV that the company didn't update the dates in the settlement properly. Anyway, she had a new better job in no time at all. Just be warned. Get proper legal aid in this event. You have a stronger position then you think.
Thanks for sharing. “Better for her.” Yep…have heard this from many people…the business will always try to do what’s best for the business (profits). Of course I think there is a RIGHT humane way to do this but unfortunately, many people have also said they’ve been pressured and certain tactics were used. Anyways thanks for sharing, hopefully this will help someone out there. And nice that your girlfriend had you at the time for support
When you're laid off in the Netherlands, you're covered for 2 years of unemployment. First year, you'll be paid out 100% of your salary (not sure what the cap is, but the average income is easily covered), then after 1 year, you get another year of payment, only this year it's 70%.
Are you sure? It is 2 years indeed, first two months it is 75% of the average on last year of income, after these two months the remainder is at 70%. The cap is at 45K on a year income.
@@EGO0808 Woops, I'm all wrong, you're correct. What I'm thinking of is sick leave, that's when these financial rules apply. Please forget what I wrote, I twisted 2 things up.
Thanks for contributing and also saw your correction. Yep sick leave…another topic to explore!
It's 75% for 2 months then 70% for upto 2 years depending on how many years you've worked. There's also a max amount of €45000 per year.
135 health insurance? Was this from last year? I pay more
By choice
I pay a bit more too but yes by choice
being unemployed with a company can be devastating.. I have worked self employed most of my career so having unemployment notice is not as devastating.. stretch out your living expenses .. always good to have some savings.. start looking for a another job.. I predict the economy in the US & EU is going to stall because of political events, & the wars..
Thanks for sharing 🙏🙏
My father could prove his boss let him go unlawfully and he won, they had to pay him 60k. I have also gone through the process but they handled it in a very nasty way so that sucked. I could have gotten more out of it but the social contacts were completely damaged beyond repair. Learned a lot about the process and my rights though. And I might not have gotten much (3k I believe), I took the boss his daughter with me (who was supposed to take over the company) because she didn't like how it was handled. She hasn't returned since, it's been 10 yrs ago. Oh and another guy who was really good at coding and was definitely underpaid - he found a job that paid him double soon after - I consider it a win.
Thanks for sharing.
Yeah I’ve heard of some nasty stories unfortunately :/
Though it’s nice to know the rights/processes..it can be quite complicated. And negotiations are always a game..hopefully it’s a compassionate one especially if employee was a good one but yes I’ve heard of nasty games :/
I was once laid off by a "dutch company". At that time, I was a young student and only lived in the Netherlands for a short amount of time. If I knew the things that I know now, I probably could have kept the job, and probably have been able to sue the company for a bunch of other misconducts on their end. The dutch company was just a branch with no real money, and the real company was overseas. I was worried that I will just lose my money trying to pay the legal fees without getting anything back, because the b.v. that I was working for did not have any real money. And it would have been good to know the implications of a permanent contract back then too. Because I did have a permanent contract and my probation period was completed almost a year ago. I definitely recommend any foreigners who work in the Netherlands to look into the labour laws and how to fight against things like these. I am also on a legal insurance now, so I will not even have to worry about legal fees.
Thanks for sharing, I’m sure someone will read this and give them some confidence. Getting laid off is difficult and even if there are rights, many don’t know their rights or what it means (I’ve now heard from many people)…good to be informed!
Very interesting video in South Africa as soon as you get a job say a month later and still trying to get your UFI money from the government you lose it. They will not give you the money for that as you now have a job. So if you are without a job for a month and the UIF process is so long and hard to get help it will take longer than you have time to do it.
Thanks for sharing how it works in South Africa 🙏
Living in the Netherlands I can tell you out of personal exp that. getting laidoff here is the easiest and also getting fired is not that hard just disobey them do not listen to them and do your own thing that is really easy getting fired these days!!!
I guess everything is relative, wish you well wherever you are!
Great video for those who.... but I'm a retired Dutchman so I'm signing of early.
Enjoy your retirement! What are your plans? Maybe no plans haha and just enjoy life?
Is it Christmas already? Wow, 2024 really went by fast. My calendar is still in April.
Christmas spirit every day
Hi David, what kind of job are you looking for, what are your skills but more important what would you like to do most? When I watch your videos, being Dutch always makes me proud and it would be a great los if you decide to leave the Netherlands due to unemployment. You' are followed by 44K people, There ar few who have a platform tot find a new job like you, use it!
Thanks for the support, I really appreciate it 🙏 I do coaching/training/facilitation (personal/professional/leadership development). So I’m looking and also considering freelance though it hasn’t been easy..
But also want to continue making videos, thanks for the encouragement…I’ve always had trouble asking for help but I’m working on it 🙏🙏
By the way, in Belgium, if they want you to sign, don't. You are not required to sign anything. You don't know what you are agreeing to. And join a union. Ik you loose your job in Belgium, the union will take care of the administration
Thanks for sharing what happens in Belgium 🙏
Yup US company was going under. Companies come and go. Every year it's like ticking time bomb of bankruptsy.
:( yeah that is business, best wishes for all who may be affected
That is why 35-50% of what we earn is collected as tax. Yes protection, no, by no means is it for free.
Thanks for sharing 🙏
WoW that is bad news. really David do not sit on your behind, and be depressed, layoffs are very common, since you nearly hit your 5 year mark. that is usually where big companies lets you go. cause they no longer get government support if they kept you. especially since you are a EXPAT. or wanting to apply for dutch citizenship.
So use the time to find another Job ASAP, before you settle into the depression, do not say I got enough income and also different revenue income, I can last a while in the Netherlands as EXPAT, that is where things really go wrong. especially since RENT is way too expensive but in return you pay less tax and get a higher income.
Now you are unemployed, different rules might apply, so basically your rent stays high, but your next pay might go lot lower. so if you can get a new job ASAP, especially if you want to apply for dutch citizenship (which is very difficult for a US expat, cause of US different rules, so you have to go trough the immigration route)
Thanks for sharing your concern and advice. Yeah good to have time to “process” but I’m ready to start moving again and take action 🙏🙏
Errr..... Most companies in the Netherlands provide health care, but you have to the premium? Is that something for expats? Because normally, YOU yourself are the one getting your health care insurance from health care insurance companies. It has nothing to do with the company you actually work for. Base health care is the same for everyone, and extra packages depend on the health care insurance companies. Discounts based on large groups/organisations are not allowed anymore, IIRC.
Or did I understand you incorrectly at 7:46?
Also, unemployment max time is NOT 38 months. It's 24 months. No matter how long you worked. This is the same if you're laid off because you've been ill for 2 years, or if you're fired because of other reasons.
Unless of course with a 0-hour contract which are very populait here
Yep 🙏 thanks for sharing
So best advice I can give you, is study what different ruling for US Expat applies to you, what Dutch Rulings applies to you, this is a hassle cause US doesn't want to give up their expat easily. especially high educated ones, they rather want them to go home, so while you might think some dutch rules applies to you, it doesn't really work that way cause of the US rulings.
Some people I knew ran into the huge problems, cause the US-Dutch Treaty, they didn't knew about. without right to unemployment benefits or safety and security net of the Netherlands.
that is why it is a huge problem, not caused by the Dutch but caused by the USA. while social health care does apply the same, you might not get Toeslag cause you are a US citizen.
And while it is still is affordable compared to the US, everything ads up for expat to go broke quickly without new security or revenue.
Thanks for sharing your concern and support 🙏
I've worked in the USA and the Netherlands. Being laid off in NL is a better experience than being employed in most American jobs. Both times I was laid off in NL I got over $20k plus kept the laptop, company phone etc.
Thanks for sharing…oh wow 20k PLUS…🙌🙌
If you’re in a union, you can get legal representation trough the union. They did a lot for me when i was fired. And because i’m still a member they will represent me in the future if i need it.
Thanks for sharing this, nice to have the help of a union 🙏
Pretty much, no matter what the reason. In the US you are on your own. And I'm fine with it. Had and lost more jobs than any three people I know combined! Now on my final job before retirement.
Thanks for sharing. Easier to hire, easier to fire in the US…not for everyone but for some
David i think you should tell people what special tax arrangement foreigners get the first 5 years they live in the Netherlands. The first 20 mnd you pay 30%(!!!) less taxs! So yes, enjoy my tax money when your in the unemployment. And did someone already started calling your "Koos werkeloos" you social status drops when you are a "steuntrekker" (unemployment arrangement)
Not everyone gets 30% as foreigners, you know that right? I didn’t get it when I first got my job…because I studied here. And paid international fees. And I pay taxes here too.
I can understand your frustration, but I hope you don’t make assumptions. People are people with dreams and challenges too. And just because someone else gets 30%, please don’t blame them. If you had the opportunity, would you take it? Be honest now. It’s policy, not people.
? Companies don’t pay healthcare… that is a right we have from the moment we are born. I’m also Dutch but Belgian.
Thanks for sharing
Hello David. I am a senior high school student. I want to major in computer science as an international student. But i can't choose between usa and Netherlands. I heared the US is not very safe and the fact that almost every one has a gun is scarry. And also i want to work in the country after graduation. So please choose it for me between the US and holland. And also don't forget to mention racism as i am black. THANKS MAN. LOVE YOU!
Hey thanks for writing. Don’t always believe big media…it sells negativity…most people don’t have guns. I don’t know your situation and can only wish you the best. Both countries can be great especially if you are computer science major. You’ll make more money in the US with that most likely..but depends on many factors, good luckn