This is probably the most thorough and accurate video out there regarding this subject. I would add a few things: 6:09 - 6:13 If you want to remove the cheek riser on the Spuhr stock in order to use the iron sights, be aware of 2 things. One, even with the cheekpiece removed, it is *literally impossible* to use the iron sights with the stock collapsed all of the way in at its shortest setting; the piece of the buttstock that interfaces with the cheek piece will interfere with your face, and you will not physically be able to smush or contort your face low enough in order to look through the rear sight. In my experience, the stock must be pulled out/back at least 3 clicks in order for your face to sit low enough to align the iron sights (if you have an especially large or "fat" face, you might need to pull out the stock even more than 3 clicks). Further, something that I think is important to note if you insist on using the iron sights with the Spuhr stock after removing the riser....although everyone is a bit different in terms of their face positioning, comfort level, and every rifle is a bit different in terms of recoil/bolt gap, be warned--you might not find the experience very pleasant. If you have the stock extended out only the minimum amount to allow your face to align the iron sights, you need to be *very* careful, because there is a squared off section near the front of the stock that normally is covered by the cheek riser, and it is very close to your face. The potential problem with this, is that if you are shooting in an awkward position, or if you are careless or sloppy in keeping everything tight as you should, that squared off section can come back and hit your face right underneath your eye. I am not saying it will happen to everyone, nor that it will happen every time, but it is not a good thing to have happen. If you must shoot the PTR/G3 with iron sights and Spuhr stock, my advice for the average person would be to either extend the length of the stock all of the way out, or somewhere nearly all of the way out. You lose the length of pull reduction advantage from the stock, but the added length of pull helps greatly to ensure that you get a better cheekweld without concern for that front squared off section possibly recoiling against your face; I personally find it much more comfortable. The Spuhr stock in fairness was designed primarily to be used with optics mounted on the rifle, and for that purpose I think it is fantastic. *I think all things considered, your custom Magpul MOE stock conversion is probably a better idea for most people* . Not only is it cheaper, but because of its contour/shape with the cheek riser(s) removed, I think it would be much more comfortable to use with iron sights than the Spuhr stock. Lastly regarding modernized handguards, a small point, but something I have noticed that is worth mentioning....many of these newer handguards such as the MI, or even PTR's aluminum ones utilize a hex-type screw in place of the original handguard pushpin. I haven't tried the MI one, but I've seen the hex screw on the PTR handguard over time loosen upon recoil; it probably would require some blue loctite to keep it from loosening on its own. Not the end of the world, but I don't necessarily like the idea of not being able to remove the handguard for normal maintenance, or to replace the cocking handle if needed. Both the Spuhr and Brugger and Thomet G3 forends utilize the original handguard pushpin, which stays in place and is easily removed and re-installed. Neither are cheap, and only the B&T comes with rail sections, but the Spuhr is very light and has a contour very similar to the slim plastic handguard.
@@kenn_dang You raise actually another good point too Denny that I had forgotten about. The Spuhr stock comes with two different pieces (a washer or a collet) to be used with the Spuhr buffer tube. I don't have an HK21 buffer to test in my stock, or a Swedish AK4 long pneumatic buffer to compare with it side by side, but I know the Swedish buffer will fit the Spuhr stock (if the included Buffer Tube Locking Washer is used), as it was a requirement of the Swedish contract that the stock must be able to fit their unique buffer. The HK21 one probably fits, but I am not 100% certain. The regular G3 buffers work fine using the included Buffer Collet, but I have noticed that the "Enhanced Heavy Buffer" for the G3 that HKParts sells have caused me some cycling issues (mostly failure to go completely into battery) when I've used it with the Spuhr stock. Never had any issues previously using the normal G3 buffer with the Spuhr stock, and once I went back to the normal buffer, the issues went away (didn't clean the gun, change the locking piece or rollers or anything like that). Not sure 100% it was the Enhanced Buffer in the stock causing the problem, but it was kind of odd, and did not seem to be an ammo issue as best I could tell.
@@kenn_dang that's what I did. But you need the club foot stock to fit it and that stock is much heavier then the others. I also have the b&t rail. But you have to shave the hk 21 cocking handle down for it to clear the handguard
Great post, thank you for the added information. My take away is that if you want that Spuhr stock, save up enough so you can get the stock and optic all at once. That stock is designed for an optic so take the hint. Though honestly, if you as a shooter are on that tight of a budget this isn’t the best rifle for you unless it’s purely a collection thing/toy. What are your thoughts on keeping the original stock and simply running a micro red dot? That would be nearly as low the irons and cheaper than just that stock depending on the sight chosen.
@@Erick_Bloodaxe Hello, I think you could make something like that work if you had to. *Some* red dots seem to be a bit more forgiving in terms of how good of a cheekweld you can get with the fixed plastic stock and no riser, but I don't think any of them really will ever be optimal without some type of (at least minimal) riser. A *potential* advantage in trying to make do with a suboptimal cheek weld on an unmodified fixed stock and a red dot, is that if you have a RDS with quick detach mount, you can use the irons normally without worrying about having to unscrew a cheek riser in a hurry. Most people aren't going to consider that an ideal trade-off though, if they are going to be mounting an optic as the primary sighting system. There was a really excellent cheekpiece designed for the fixed plastic stock that could be attached and unattached in seconds (with NO tools!) but my understanding is that the company that made it is no longer in business. The stock is listed on RTG Parts website, but I don't think he will be getting any more in: www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/HK-CHEEK-PIECE-p1879.htm There is a picture out there of a German paratrooper(?) (I forget the specific term they use) from maybe 7 or 8 years ago with a very similar looking cheekpiece designed to be removed quickly from a G3 fixed stock, but I cannot find it at the moment. You could of course always make your own cheek piece/riser out of simple foam and duct tape, it doesn't need to be expensive or elaborate at all...the only thing with that is, if you go that route, there is a possibility you will make it so that now you will be unable to get your face low enough to use the iron sights with your make-shift riser on the stock. I suppose a *possible* work around for this would be to try to place your cheek riser farther back on the stock, trying to leave some room in the front to place your face low enough for the irons, but I'm not sure how comfortable that would be. There are probably other cheek pieces that are not made specifically for the G3/PTR but for other rifles like AKs that *might* work with a G3 stock too, but you'd have to look into that. I would try to find something ideally that could be removed without tools, at least if you were concerned with using the iron sights (if not, no big deal). Whatever you do, please don't do something like the Brit operator at 12:09 did, fabricating a cheekpiece on the A4 retractable stock. That stock is about 1 lb heavier than the fixed plastic stock, and with the fabricated cheekpiece added on to it, the primary function of the A4 stock (collapsing down to make getting in/out of vehicles and tight spaces easier) is now rendered useless. (I understand why he did it that way, the "K" model is a little lighter, and he was probably working with equipment limitations, so I'm not picking on him at all, but if I had other choices to accomplish the same thing on a G3, I would have done things differently). Hopefully some of this has been helpful.
The more he hates what he is reviewing. The more enjoyment I get from the video. I've had so many projects like this that it's kinda cathartic to watch someone else suffer.
I hate that my PTR 91 is...heavy, awkward with poorly designed trigger/ mag release. Poor design for the master race. Still...I sold all my FALs because I am old, but still have the '91.
Works for walmart too. Shit holds on like no other. I prefer keymod. Often lighter and I just think it looks cooler. Plus I have a shit load of rails for keymod and only one mlok
My PTR sits with an Mlok rail, Magpul MVG, Magpul bipod, and a PA 1-6. Hella heavy, unwieldy, and annoying to accessorize. But if I ever need to go out for 6 months shooting at pirates in the Gulf of Aden, it might be an ok option.
Yup, mine has a Knight rail fore grip, PSG-1 trigger group with an adjustable stock (I think it's from an m91?), IOR 1-6 Scope, one piece Rhienmetal bolt carrier. It's almost as accurate as my 700 police of the same caliber, but it's so damn heavy it feels like a workout shooting it offhand. Off a bipod though it's quite fun. If I have to grab a rifle to repel bad guys though, I'll grab an AR.
I've got a ptr32 (don't ask why). It's got almost no recoil, but I only use it with a bipod because of the weight. It's fun but man do I hate to doing run and gun practice with it
My idea for my 91 was to keep it simple and don't even attempt to modify it for night vision. Bare minimum add a red dot, flash light, sling. It's more useful than a M1A but less useful than an AR-10. Break it in to be mostly reliable, shoot it, learn the weapon system, maybe upgrade the recoil spring and buffer ring but otherwise run it as is. Ak guys who actually train have a saying don't m4 your AK and I think that applies to any G3 variant too.
Back in college in the 90s, my good friend had a HK91. This was during the AWB so you trained with what you had. He shot the hell out of it. Took what classes you could back then. That thing was a beast.
I knew a guy who had al sorts of illegal shit during the AWB. guy had connections, I was envious. Died in a gun battle 15 years ago with some bikers. RIP Jimmyxxx, you are missed
By buddy bought a HK91 in 1982 and it just ran. Only issue we ever ran into was when the gun jammed and it looked like the bullet had backed off into the case. Turns out that the gun ripped the fired cartridge case in half and ejected the back portion, The next round chambered and welded itself to the cartridge that was ripped in-half. Used a cleaning rod to knock the round out of the chamber, reload and the gun ran flawlessly after that with no other failures ever. He paid $550 in 1982, which is to about $1,800.00 today,
I bought a lefty cocking tube for my PSG clones that I’m having built, but decided to go with the HK righty tube instead. I seriously toss around just having the lefty tube put on it regularly.
@@manganvbg90 problem is BATFags. USA allowed versions cant have the opportunity to mate with an original cetme/hkg3 trigger housing. The front housing pins to the receiver are replaced with a bulky shelf that a crossbar in the housing (where some giggle bits would be) rests on, which is why they seem so bulky. fun fact, if you remove the trigger housing and put a hole for normal trigger housings to connect to, you now have a felony on your hands as its now easily convertible to full auto.
@@thejunky1908 I bought a surplus CETME L housing and selector lever, trimmed the hole in the front of trigger housing and the wings until it matched the shelf. It sits on the shelf, held in by the stock. Functions great and only cost about $20. Clipped and pinned housings go for insane prices IMHO
@@calholli doesn’t matter if it’s modern or not. It works. We spend a lot “modernizing” the Ak and AR platforms also. These just take a little extra because the Hk engineers hate people. They never envisioned all the wiz bang force multiplayers we have now 60 years ago.
HA! I love that! I went to my first public range sometime last year (usually I just shoot at the house), and found it was true. Of course, some old geezer walks up, "Hey, you plan to keep your brass?"... The politeness in me said, "Go ahead, man.". But, inside my head I was saying, "Get the fuck out of here!".. Oh well. Doubt he'll be making much use of brass from a fluted chamber, ejected into low orbit.
I have had my g3 clone for over 5 years at first it destroys the brass then i took scotch bright and a old 3o caliber bore Bush with copper past compound and polished it after the 2nd polishing also no fluting marker with full load 150 165 180 and 200 i can get over 8 to 12 reloads per case and the extraction impulse is less then 1/2 of what it was i have over 2000 rounds fired in the rifle i came a cross a parts store the had the original full bcg assembly fa and factory nos ni complete lower metal fcg and i ordered two all the parts was under 175.00 the new bolt gap is out of the 2.0 to 5.0 a 3.0 my old bcg is a LOSE 2.25 just think 65 year old new parts for 60% of a prt newly available bcg. This gun is so sweet every one is in shock after shooting it i tell them l just got a gem not very many g3 ptr c308e. sa centme's or clones will be anything like mine.
its obvious to me that he bought a brand new PTR and he had not done enough research and break in period for the rifle. You get alot of problems with the first 100 rounds and after that, nothing stops it.
And leftys are what 5% and statistically artsy types. I met a good 20k soldiers in my time in the army a further 2 to 4k civvie shooters. Only ever met 1 lefty. Trained in SLR L1A1. At the time lefty was becoming a modern ( I believe marketing dollar thing rather than actual numbers of use) someone was like is there a left vers..nope fuk em. They learn to shoot or die
@@ozdavemcgee2079 that’s hilarious cause myself and half my squad overseas were all lefties 😂 then you get that weird fuck who shoots rifle lefty but pistol righty. Fucked up
The easy fix for this is actually making an ambidextrous, modular setup. I am a lefty and my go-to are bullpup style rifles as a result of this. Easy to use, and only "clunky" if you're trying to force your experience from an AR into a rifle that is everything but that. I also have two PTR's, but it's definitely funky when it comes to reloading. Still enjoy them, though!
@@austinwiorek5407 I’m that weird fuck. I wish I wasn’t but I’m blind in my right eye and right handed. I’ve thought about switching to full lefty but it’s actually kind of handy to be able to get your shooting hand on your pistol while transitioning your rifle down with your left. It works well so why change it.
I'm in the Swedish Home guard and the rifle is named AK4 here. Recently got the stock changed to the spuhr stock and it has done wonders for me in the sense that it got shorter. I'm not very tall and with a shorter stock I found it easier to control. Being able to hold it closer to the muzzle made it easier to control the recoil, and it is quite precise over longer distances as well. I like this more than the AK5 that the Swedish army uses.
give it 1000 rounds and both you and the rifle will be set to go! I talk by experience, thats more or less how long it took me to consider my dad's cetme a good fighting rifle, we got it new and we thought it was trash until we broke it in.
Great video showing the limitations of the design. I've had my PTR-100 GI for a little over a year. No malfunctions and about 250 rounds in (I know, I know... but in 2020 and early 2021 I could have had plenty of ammo or shot a lot; I opted for having plenty of ammo). The only add-ons I got were a West German Bundeswehr surplus claw mount and two surplus wood furniture sets. The stock sets went from reasonably priced to almost unobtainium last year. It is the perfect rifle for my needs: a general purpose rifle for the North Cascade mountains. It looks cool, is reliable, accurate, and will kill anything in North America out to 400 yards with irons or 800 with a scope. I would NOT want this rifle for a modern combat or night time role of any sort. I'm very satisfied with it because in my mind it's an historical rifle and I don't have modern expectations of it.
@@tinkerjeeppublications9823 That's a tough one. I'm inclined to say no. The rifle is apparently out of spec ever so slightly but just enough so that the claw mount doesn't mount where it should, but directly forward of the proper location. I have so far been unable to zero the scope at the range because the rounds aren't on paper. I need to find a measured 100 yard range that allows a sheet of plywood with an X in it or something. I could do that in the woods somewhere, but where I live it's mountainous and 100 level yards are hard to find. So, no. It's not worth it. Get a PTR100 with the pic rail welded on it and forget the claw mount. Spend $300 on ammo instead.
@@bhoward9378 I feel for you, man. I have similar issues with the top flat of my GI receiver being slightly tilted to one side, so the "bolt-on" rails are not level and flat. I can add a typical bolt on rail, then clamp a Pic rail riser onto that, and my Sig dot on it's riser onto that, and it leans to one side like the tower of Pisa. So my optics have to be low and light weight. The MFI Ultra Low Rise mini rail is perfect for my needs with the Sig Romeo 5. Both are low, small, lightweight, and quality . Also, most of those HK claw mounts were fitted to specific service rifles by the armorers of which ever military or paramilitary force used them. They are not a Glock. Some fitting is required. Sight in at 35 yards. Spec on these guns with 7.6NATO is zero them at 35 yards. And once done, the POI will be the same at 35 and 200 yards. If you cant see further than 100 yards due to terrain, you dont need a scope. That's why US military thinking justified 5.56 and iron sights on the M16s. Everyone could hit that far, and most infantry combat occurred within that range. Go to the western prairies and the full potential of 308 and a scope becomes a factor.
I think the different battery of arms that comes with the G3 is what really messes people up in regards to it's capabilities. That being said, I think you hurt the gun's feelings cause I've never seen someone with so much bad luck with this platform LOL
Yeah, this thing is definetaly not made to be a night gun, but I humped it around in the army for 18 months no problem in all conditions and I trust it with my life over most other options out there. He must of gotten a bad one, and/or he is used to different platforms. He should have sent it back for repairs.
My wife is adorable and she says “smoosh”, when I’m feeling adorable I say “smoosh”, so hearing “smoosh” in a battle rifle upgrade video is hilarious. And adorable.
TBH the best configuration for any G3 clone is cold war aesthetic because sometimes cool > practical. Same for the FAL and MP5. Fun project though, and I'd really be into a similar video about the AUG. It's mostly good with just a couple things that need to be tweaked
This is honestly one of the only guns I want to buy even though it would be pretty much useless to me. Wouldn’t do any modernization, I’d try to get it as close to a g3a3
Same here. Not sure where my fascination came from, but I’ve always wanted a plain G3a3 clone. After all of the research, they make little sense compared to the competition. But, damn, do they look cool.
My century C308 has had literally “0” malfunctions in the 3 years I’ve had it and roughly 500 rounds I’ve put through it, mostly steel case. And with Gold Medal Match, it’s damn near MOA at 100 yards. It was $650 out the door… I put a Burris LPVO on it, still have stock furniture and have no problems hitting torso sizes targets out to 500yards.
I think a lot of people confuse Century arms first CETME with the C308. When I picked mine up Wally world had perfecta ammo for $7 a box. Over two thousand rounds, no failures.
I also picked up a C308 about 2.5 years ago. My only mods were a sling, a new (cheap) front hand guard with bottom picatinny rail only, a really beefy vertical grip, and a See-Thru Open Site. I got mine as an overstock firesale from Centerfire Systems for $499. At that price I couldn't pass it up.
I rock an original PTR 91F. I haven't had nearly the issues you describe, short of the break in period with numerous ejection failures which had to be resolved by a replacement ejection lever. She runs and feeds and ejects fine. But yeah, she is heavy and does do a lot of pushing-around. Those buffer-tube stocks alone look well worth it.
@@rwcjcf6266 I have noticed also that some fixed plastic stocks are noticeably more or less comfortable than others to use, even within the same gun that might have an "ideal" bolt-gap. It probably does have something to do with recoil and buffer springs as eventually they will wear out (ranges that rent full autos probably accelerate this process quite a bit). I've never gone to the trouble to replace recoil springs but partly that is due to the fact that entire fixed stock assemblies have usually been reasonably cheap and available.
@@Detective.John.Kimble I can't speak to shooting suppressed, but as far as recoil, changing the locking piece in a round-about way might slightly affect perceived recoil, but it is highly unlikely you are going to notice a difference simply with that change. More than anything else, the "Bolt-Gap", the distance between the back of the bolt head and the bolt carrier after the trigger has been pulled, is what is going to affect how "light", or how "hard" the recoil is felt by the shooter. The lower the Bolt Gap, the "harder" the gun is going to recoil. Some people will claim that heavy buffers will dramatically mitigate felt recoil from PTRs/G3s when used in place of the regular buffer, in the same stock, and that might be their own experience, but I have not seen this personally to really be true (just my opinion). The official tolerance numbers I guess have been amended over time by HK, but supposedly the official tolerance the G3/MP5 has for its Bolt Gap is as high as .020 of an Inch, and as low as .004 of an Inch (.508 mm to 0.1016 mm). I would *NOT* want to shoot a G3 with a Bolt Gap all the way down at .004.
Hello there! I am portuguese and this country had and still have the H&K G-3, in 7,62X51mms since the 60s. We took it to the ex colonial war (1961-75) and I had to join the regular army of Portugal, and the G-3 was still around in full use. (1985/6) What a battle rifle. I'd go to war with it. Portugal had its own production under license from H&K. Now we got nothing!! 😢😢 Glad to hear from you all this work, and I am happy that others still and can enjoy shooting this. I miss "my" G-3, despite not needing it to defend me and my love ones, so far... I will have to turn to a replica... (This is so stupid and weird...) Thank you for reading my boring and idiot comment. Meanwhile I wish you just the very best!!!
You'd think that when HK tried making a successor to the MP5 they'd be like "Hey, let's just take this reliable roller-lock system, apply some modern engineering, and iron out all the awkward bits." Instead we got the UMP....
@@majestic._ I don't think anyone hates the UMP, it's just disappointing - plenty of competent blowback SMGs came before and after it that were far more affordable and just as reliable. The UMP isn't really the rub here anyways - it's the fact that H&K completely discounted and/or ignored what made the MP5 popular. People were (and still are) more than willing to put up with the weight and price (despite cheaper and lighter options), the roller-lock system was (is) just that good. I'm not sure what's happened to H&K's management or culture over the years, but whatever it is they've clearly thrown out most of their originality and inventiveness in order to produce the same cookie-cutter shit every other company makes these days.
The UMP isn't an improvement over anything, but its not a step back either. Its a sidestep evolution. To help break down my rationale, I'll break down some of the basics of SMG generations: Gen 1: Milled receivers, expensive to make and heavy. Good Examples are the MP-18 and Thompson. Gen 2: Stamped sheet metal or tube receivers. Very cheap and easy to produce. Great examples are the MP-40, Sten and Grease Gun. Gen 3: This is a hotly debated step whether or not its actually a new generation or continuation of Gen 2 but the key difference is that these SMGs start getting shorter and more compact by putting the magazine in the grip using telescoping bolts or other methods to keep a longer barrel. Uzi and MAC 10 for example. Gen 4: Gen 3 SMGs diverge from Gen 2 by adding a little more cost to their manufacturing, but gain improved controllability and user friendliness by using shrunken down rifle operating systems, ergos and moving primarily to a closed bolt. Examples of course include the MP5 family, MP7 and the MPX My point: The UMP is fundamentally a Gen 2 SMG but with injection molded polymer replacing sheet steel, adding a dash of Gen 3 modernization features and using a closed bolt (which some Gen 1 and 2 SMGs used). A bit long winded but context is everything in these things.
@@shockwave6213 Your reasoning sounds largely arbitrary. First off, despite my complaints the UMP _is_ one of the earliest steps towards "modern" SMGs (such as the Scorpion Evo 3 or APC9) - guns with modernized controls and ergonomics, standardized accessory attachment points, modular components/furniture, and polymer or milled aluminum receivers. These are nowhere near being in the same class as a bunch of old WWII weapons. Secondly, your classification of the MP5 as being so generationally distinct from the Uzi or MAC-10 is bizarre, considering all three guns originate from the same time period (late 50s to 60s). Functionally different of course, but all three originate among a host of Cold War-era SMGs trying different things. Last thing I want to address is your description of AR9-style firearms as "using shrunken down rifle operating systems" - that is not accurate in the slightest. There are exactly _two_ SMGs in the world that do this: the MP5, which uses a variant of the roller-delayed blowback system from the G3 family of rifles; and the SIG MPX, which uses an extremely shortened version of the short-stroke piston system seen in the MCX rifle series. Every other modern SMG uses either direct blowback, or a proprietary delayed-blowback system designed specifically for that gun.
@@kyotra You were right about the AR 9 and I edited to omit that gun but also added the MP7 as a short stroke gas piston operated gun. Guess I was tired that day. My classifications and reasoning stem straight from Ian at Forgotten Weapons and I'd wager he knows more about guns than just about anyone else. In this video at about 15 minutes in, he also agrees the UMP is Gen 2 with newer materials. ua-cam.com/video/5Hrfxu_K9HY/v-deo.htmlsi=Ydg489ECZTEcPr92
my PTR91 has been flawless and has yet to jam, or failure to fire. its a tank of a rifle and just as good as anything out there. it all comes down to how much you practice with it. i prefer my ptr91 over any m4 or ar-10.
There was this one company who developed an AR-10 receiver to take HKG3 magazines so you could use cheap surplus magazines instead of the more expensive Magpul AR10 magazines. I really liked the idea of it tbh but I didn’t snag one when they did release them. I believe it was a limited run.
It sucks that you’ve had so many issues with your PTR. I’ve had a great experience with the C308 I got a few years ago, but I recognize I’m one of the few.
Same here. Mine will happily eat everything from 145gr 7.62 to 180gr .308, and I personally like it more than the AR-10 platform. Nothing beats the HK slap.
Add a paracord between the sling and the metal attachment will allow it to drop off without impeding the functioning of the charging handle. Also, put the single eye NOD on non master eye, in case light comes on, then u can use your master eye to aim thru the optics.
I like the way you put this,"It doesn't beat you up, but it does push you around." Never heard that before, excuse my ignorance, but well said. I own an AR-10 type by Windham Weaponry, a Springfield M1A as well as a PTR-91, so I have some experience with the .308 win/7.62. The HK 91 design is a great shooter in my humble opinion, but this thing is a Battle Rifle. It is an accurate Battle Rifle, other than that, it has so little to offer compared to other platforms and the other platforms, especially the AR-10, have an aftermarket that allows a personal critique not found with the HK91.
You make perhaps the highest quality videos in the genre. Each one adds substantially to our collective knowledge, particularly in understanding the use of the equipment for shooting in something above a square range environment. The night vision information is particularly helpful and there are very few high quality videos of the type. Thank you! I'll be watching and sharing your videos for as long as you make them. 👍🏻
On my PTR91 GI, if I get a low profile mount red dot I find I don't need the riser on the stock, so I swapped it out for the MFT mini. Used the magpul mp5 lower and a wood handguard. Heavy PCS recoil buffer. Got it to 9.5 lbs, still heavy, but about as good as you can get these. Very first round out of it stove-piped, but I haven't had a single malfunction after that for years.
I dumped some money into mine when it was my only rifle, but I came to the same conclusion. It's too heavy and unwieldy as well. I just dressed it up a bit with carry handle and heat shield handguard to look cool and use iron sights. It's a range toy/backup rifle, and that's it. Mags used to be $1-3 a pop, so it was pretty cheap to load up. I probably should've got a FAL though.
@ Riflemanm 16a2 He is a brave man to oufit his PTR with ALL of this stuff. I have one with a Spuhr stock/hanguard/top rail and an optic (the Trijicon TA33 that I had was the lightest one). Any more than that and maybe a light, I think is really pushing it. It can be done, but most people will probably come to the same conclusion he did.
FAL is no different than a G3 they are both "outclassed" by modern battle rifles. In many ways the G3 will edge out the FAL especially in terms of accuracy and reliability.
I’ve owned both. Got disappointed when my FAL’s charging handle came off in my hand on one range trip because the only thing keeping it attached to the gun is a single little pin and the handle shaft is so thin it bent. Sold my FAL and PTRs and bought a SCAR.
I modernized my FAL. Only Grip is that it is heavy, despite starting out as an 18" Para FAL which is lighter than the classic FAL. I can get between 1.5 and 2MOA with it.
Part of me 100% agrees with ar10 and ar15's being souless and lacking a certain coolness you get with a g3, fal, ak, galil, etc. Another part of me says if you want a g3, leave the wood furniture on it and keep it simple and retro and have your at setup as a modern fighting rifle.
Wood furniture? Love to if you could get it! Do you know a place to get wood furniture for a G3-type rifle? CETME wood is easy to find, but doesn't fit w/o significant work.
It’s not that they are soulless it’s just that we’ve seen them everywhere in every configuration in every length everyone has one that’s what everyone shoots it’s been ingrained in our heads for decades the difference is the other battle rifles have this cool factor about them it’s like watching a 80s action movie thrill when you see one because that’s where they were so iconic and most of the bad guys or special forces used them. I don’t care how modern and decked out your new age ar10 is it could be a KAC for all I care if someone next to you is rocking a ptr91 like the one in this video trying to be modernized even if mediocre it’s still way too fucking cool and I’d rather shoot it then the boring KAC we know what to expect out of it and after a while it’s boring but a g3 it’s like a old muscle car it sucks it drives like shit but you can somewhat modernize it you can sorta make it work it will never be that new Camaro or mustang good but I’d rather roll around in the old one anyday
I also bought this same PTR and it's basically a cool old school gun to shoot. I've gotten a red dot on it, swapped out the stock to put a Magpul stock like yours and since I'm not using it for HD defense or my go to gun, it has a simple sling and no lights. I didn't want to waste more money to get the M-Lok rails or 1913s. There's no point. I got better more modern guns for this
Then there are those of us who really don’t care about optics, weight or all the gizmos that don’t make a person a marksman. I prefer the G3 over AR’s I just love them🥰
Relatively unrelated tip: One of the heavy rubber buttpads for the standard fixed stocks do a great deal in mitigating felt recoil IF you're ok with rocking irons.
Magpul PRS stock, Athlon Helos BTR 2-12x42 scope. Which has a lot of clearance for the charging handle. It is short and has a 42mm Bell. Vortex Pro series scope rings. (Center is cut out so you can use iron sights.) And with the Magpul adjustable cheek riser it takes ten seconds to lower. Aim sports Mlok handguard, Mlok sling mount , Black slate industries rail covers,and a Bill Springfield trigger job. (4.25lbs.) And his recoil buffer.(30% reduction.) Buy one with a heavy 18 inch barrel. (Which is more of a medium weight.) Then add a muzzle device. I went with a ZEV. Reduces flash and recoil.
I've had my H&K 91 since 1983 and have never had a failure to fire ever. I've shot most of the surplus back then and any junk that turned up in between. The claw mounts work fine for any 30mm tube, the slim hand-guard works well, and the original collapsible stock works great but length of pull leaves much to be desired.As far as manual of arms goes, you have to remember that this design goes back to the late 30's. Practice with the rifle and you will become proficient. Comparing it to a modern gun is an apple to oranges comparison. If you compare it to it's competitors at the when issued you will find that it was quite an innovative weapon.
My Aero M5 was $1200 bucks. I think I am in maybe $1800 with a 16 inch upper and a 20 inch upper. Even with the 20 inch upper, I am barely tipping scales at 9 lbs. It has a good 15 inch free float Mlok forend. It shoots el cheapo steel case reliably and puts most 147 to 150 gr FMJ from Wolf to Fed LC into 1.5 inch off a bench. I run the 16 inch with a Trijicon TA-11J ACOG and the 20 inch with a Primary Arms PLX 1-8 Griffin Mil FFP. Watching people try to modernize G3s and M1As always makes me glad I went with the AR10.
I just bought a CETME C kit. I really just love the history. It seems clear that you have a love hate love relationship with the platform. You will regret selling her.
I have to say the PTR rifles of today are not the rifles of yesterday. I have two rifles from them, a Texas edition with the weird length hand guard and 16” barrel and a black GI spec rifle from 2016ish and both were flawless out of the box. I have week over 3k rounds out of the Texas edition as I use it on my farm and even first mag out of the box never had a failure. The black rifle has sub 1000 rounds but not a failure either. I’ve had friends get modern PTR rifles with horrible failures despite looking fantastic. I don’t know if their move a few years back or them trying to shit out Mp5 clones has over stressed their QC but it is not as good as it was.
I wish I were a fly on the wall observing the shop floor and the different operations going on. Granted, the welding operations involved bring an additional layer of difficulty to the manufacturing process, and clearly you can't just throw in anybody to learn an operation like that, but it doesn't seem like they are cranking out thousands upon thousands of rifles per year, either...so I'd imagine the majority of QC issues should probably be caught before the guns get out the door, and probably are. Do you recall offhand what type of failures some of your friends have had with their PTRs?
@@dexm2010 The front sight block was canted along with the cocking tube, but whatever that’s not a “big” deal, but he was having a lot of issue with bolt overrunning the next round.
What’s up with PTR reliability? I served with a G3, military ammo and never had issues with it. Heavy yes, but reliable always. I also carried a 22lbs radio, 1st gen kevlar helmet and flak-jacket. That’s probably why I’m always looking for lighter options nowadays))
The guy modified so much on this gun, it probably affected the reliability. I have one myself and it never ever gave me trouble. Typical situation of a young kid starting to tune his car and wonder why after a while it drives shitty.
I love my PTRs. They are heavy and I probably would't grab it first to go into combat, but they are fun to shoot, look awesome and while hop has the worst lulck, mine are super reliable. Partnered with wood and not trying to modernize they look fantastic and are some of my favorite guns.
Another great stock option if you’re willing to spend the money is the factory collapsing stock, and for another $60 flat HKParts will cut 1 or 2 custom length of pull notches for you. I’m 5’9” so that was a great help. I got mine cut at about the halfway point, which gives me a much better LOP compared to the stock being all the way out. Shortens the rifle up quite a bit, to about the length of a 16” AR. I’m using a 1.5/6x Elcan with RMR, a SAW foregrip, bipod, and streamlight pro-tac on the extended MLOK handguard, however I have the top piece of the extension removed so I can still throw the bayonet on. Because why not. I have a pice of pic rail on there awaiting an IR laser. As it sits, the rifle is 14.5lbs with a loaded 20 round mag. Sounds heavy but my issued rifle was a M4 with 203, ACOG, PEQ16, and GLS so quite frankly it feels lighter than that and it slings .308. PTR’s after break in are dead reliable but I have replaced all internals with HK unissued surplus from RTG, including the tungsten filled bolt, and a CHF barrel topped with a manticore nightbrake. The rifle has ZERO rise to it. I picked the G3 because I love it, and it’s robustness and refusal to quit working. Mines about a 2 MOA rifle all day which is plenty accurate for combat, despite Americans belief that a rifle has to be sub 1/2 MOA to be worth anything. Also agree people care way too much about reload speed, but if you run the gun it’s not bad, I’m pretty quick with it now after a couple years. Parts are plentiful and pretty cheap, and the rifle is easy to work on. I think more people ought to consider them.
Thank god I have a well functioning FAL, being able to adjust the gas flow is a luxury compared to the drama required to adjust the 91/CETME. All these little issues is why I built my own 91 (except the receiver, I suck at welding) since only having around $700 I’m in my comfort zone compared with $1,600 and up. To me, the FAL and 91/G3 series rifles are in the boutique category and I don’t shoot them enough to justify the cost since I have quite a few other battle rifles to choose from. I did notice that parts kits and other surplus parts is starting to dry up so I’m buying a bunch of magazines and high wear replacement parts. The parts inventory could dry up a lot quicker if some gun dealer developed a rifle that looks sexy and was selling good, we saw this in the FAL market, it’s a pain trying to find an FAL steel magazine since DSA started making their version of the FAL. And please keep in mind that we could be hit with an aggressive gun ban without warning if the left tries to do what Clinton did with his executive power, we all remember that fun time period. I’m just not taking chances.
@@gregflores8959 For the DMR roll the problem with G3's isn't so much that's it's heavy it's that's it's an outdated rifle, and they aren't nearly as accurate as an AR10. Look at all the modifications HK had to do to the PSG1 to get the G3 design to meet the 1 MOA requirement that the government put in place for the PSG1.
this is what i built. cetme-c bolt carrier, trigger group and stock, ptr91 receiver flat, psg1 long trunnion, g3 irons, and a ptr barrel that i turned down to take the cetme cocking tube. It's ugly but f^&*ing beautiful at he same time.
Just bought one from a friend at the local gun shop. It has a PSG1 style stock and a lot of upgrades and he is throwing in some extra mags and 300 rounds of match ammo. Can't wait to fire it.
@@joshuagibson2520 idk man. I think it's cool, but it's got some flaws I am not a fan of. A regular guy training did a video on this a few years back. I do like the ace though, I just think it needs a few changes to really up it's game. It's got a lot of potential and it wouldn't be hard to get it there.
Or the fact that HK doesn't just standardize the AK4D for US market😂😂. Also AR15 or AR18 Variants have way more US research and development thus the platform has more options readily available. If Battle rifles like the AR10/SR25 were more readily available itd be just as good of a platform.
How have I never heard of you before? This is an awesome channel. Also, it's so weird to see reliability issues with these things. I had a century C308 back in the day and it was perfectly reliable after 5k+ rounds. I know that's not very much but for a broke teenager that shit fuckin rocked. Such a fun gun....when they work. But I never even had as much as a stovepipe. No out of batteries or misfeeds. I think I got whatever the opposite of a lemon is.
With the cost of building a AR-10 in the $500-$700 range depending on options it really makes trying to "Modernize" the G-3 a foolish endeavor unless you already own it. But with the AR-10 you can also have a 12ga. upper and a 6.5 Creedmoor upper all in the same transit case and swap uppers based on application. God Bless Eugene Stoner and his modular weapons systems.
I came really close to grabbing a ptr 91 last year, but I ended up going with the sa58. The g3 platform is really cool and I would love to be able to enjoy using it, but I am afraid hk does not build guns for people like me. I am left handed and this is my story
@@gundude82 and unlike the g3 it has bolt hold open, a stock not made for giants, a collapsing stock that is both aesthetic as fuck with wood and polymer, optics mounting that doesn’t require welding or optics requiring a weird non zero retaining system, and is probably heavier than either a AR10 or g3.
The rifle is not as bad as he claims. I never had any issues with mine, I did my research for best components and right now this is the only rifle I have not traded or sold off in the past 3 years. Its a beast.
After buying a Springfield M1A as my first rifle, and being a glutton for punishment, I followed you and bought a PTR91 with the 16in barrel, but no rail. so happy to be in another love/hate relationship 🙃. I think it would be an absolute riot to see you give an M1A the same treatment as a PTR. You'd probably hate it, but it would be a joy to watch 🤣
Oh god, why the no rail version? LOL If you do decide to go the clamp on route, MFI ultra lows are the best bolt/clamp on rail. HK Parts is their exclusive seller. If you decide you want a rail welded on by a gunsmith, then HK Parts also sells various lengths of Pic rail with a G3 receiver top profile for the express purpose of welding it on.
That is a neat trick... except for giving out your position. Nice for everyday practice. I learned my ammo out tempo the hard way, by shooting a F ton of ammo.
@@almostontimehero5415 if you've fired enough rounds that your down to your last 2 I don't think you're being sneaky sneaks anymore. Not to mention as a civilian if you're shooting people while "hiding" you're probably gonna get bent over in court and charged with murder in most cases
About the Portuguese army: The last iteration of the G3 fielded by deployed troops was fielded in the following configuration: Retractable stock(the oldest of the mods since the fixed ones crack in the middle), tri-picatiny rail, PEQ on the right, EOT or comp M4. and gripod. In 2019 Portugal began the replacement of the G3 with the SCAR-L and H. The troops deployed in the CAR are already using the SCAR.
Yeah always bugs me when people fuck with em. They’re “trash” just leave em alone and invest your money in a better rifle. Enjoy them for what they are
@@talltale9760 yeah and it bugs me when dumb broke fudds tell other people what to do with their money. You probably have a psa with a sightmark and think it's a "good" gun.
Bro, this is hands down, one of the top three gun vids on UA-cam in 20 years. Fantastic fucking writing, great wit, hella good research and knowledge bombs. The quality of and time put into this vid should make the top personalities in the industry scared or jealous. Or both. Mad chops, dude!
In May 2019, my PSA PA10 Gen 2 18" MOE Rifle Kit and receiver cost me $580 /w free shipping..., but though not "modern", I still think I like my FAL better.
@@chickenfishhybrid44 All the controls are in the right places, unlike the AR-15 and AR-10 and it's a real battle rifle, unlike the AR-15... Where it's lacking is in modern mounts...
Thank you very much for this video Hop, as a HK91 owner (a long time ago), I appreciate your take on the good and bad of this type of gun. Thanks Again...
a few tips on the G3 / PTR91 1) if it kicks to hard take a look at the ruber buffer in the stock ,and mak sure its dry , to much oil in the gun may reduce its effect 2) if prone or laying on the ground ,you may find it usefull ,to hook your sling not into the front ring ,but into the charging handle ,and charge the gun by pulling the sling back 3)in full auto the gun is almost uncontrolable ,stay at singleshot if you can ,accept the enemy is verry close i can only speak for my original G3 that was actually 10 years older than myself ,back in my basic training in the Bundeswehr
Looks like some 40+ year old ak4's during my conscription, when 70% would malfunction bad even with live ammo. Mine however ran like a champ, week long ex wity blanks and it just ran.
@ hoone I've always wondered about stuff like that. The Swedish AK4s must be very old by now...if they haven't been manufactured in Sweden for many years, what do they do for spare parts if something wears out or breaks? If a barrel gets worn out completely, what can the Home Guard units do about it? I know AK4/G3 barrels will last a long time, but eventually they must wear out at some point.
Swedish government doesn't really care about defense so they probably shoot all those guns until no spare parts are around. Some of those older AK4's were supplied to Baltic countries after the USSR collapsed also. Besides there is no problems with them guns being old if there are spare parts around and troopers are told to clean their rifles. I myself had Valmet RK62 made in 1987 when I served some years ago and it had no issues.
@@hoone1236 I guess it makes sense as long as there are good enough parts to replace worn ones. Did you serve in the Latvian, Lithuanian or Estonian military?
Yeah I had to pump about a good 1k to 1.5k rounds though the rifle to make it super reliable. I also added a new 3 side rail handguard, and removed the stock handguard. Makes attaching anything much easier. I also used high rings to attach a bigger scope to make 400-600 yds a better scope of work.
Good work. I’ve owned the 16” 91 and a Century. Another problem you didn’t mention: the barrel shifts against the front triple ring thingy when you hang heavy stuff off it and make it hot, so even with the locking piece conversion, suppressing these things is difficult. I found muzzle devices over about 8 oz did this. The locking piece swap does reduce perceived recoil - I don’t know how cold it would have to be before reliability would be effected. I still love them. They are both fairly precise, even with steel case ammo. I’ve found Federal’s heavy game king loading to do very well out of the PTR.I have no use for 3 MoA battle rifles - the ability to put that .308 energy on target past a quarter mile using modern optics is the most important reason to have one of these things for me.
I really don't like the G3 either. But I built a CETME from a dirt cheap parts kit and it actually works. I screwed it my barrel setting in the trunnion and had to run the biggest rollers available but it ran great from the first shot and it is really accurate.
I had the same return to battery issues, until i disassembled EVERYTHING in the action group and liberally applied PTFE grease instead of oil. That improved reliability from 40% to about 99%. To be fair I have less than a hundred rounds through mine though.
As a left handed shooter with riffles; this is likely the best in terms of ergonomics & brass clearance (imo). One-handed reloading is repeatable & relatively easy using AK style (reaching over the top to rack/slap charging handle). With the brass always flying up & over to the right; little chance of charring your wrist. Shooting lefty also makes it easy to have a hand on the accessories. Gotta figure out the sling yourself to suit personal preference. The stock actually sits well for me with my paracord setup that also solves the sling issue. Thanks for the info on the other accessory recommendations & keep up the good work. 👍
@@Hoplopfheil I hope it’s better than the Gen1 716 Piston I have. That thing has been garbage for me. (I think I finally have it sorted out now, after serious Dremel sanding work on the bolt and other internals, and a case of steel ammo for good measure.)
Ooof... the weight.. i agree.. serving with it wasn't too easy, but you eventually get used to it. Becomes very beneficial in cqb, when you're out of ammo though. However the swedish made AK4(just bog standard G3 built under license for Swedish military) was extremely reliable during my time with it. Only true malfunctions were caused by faulty compensators (with blanks) or me not hitting/seating the magazine into place. Also, this rifle really hates being over-lubricated in arctic conditions. Did it feel modern or comfortable to shoot: No But it did hit exactly where you aimed it. The stock drumsight was amazing in that regard.
The only gun with worse ergos than an AK and a lot harder to disassemble. At least a well made one (not PTR) is as reliable. I have sent many PTR guns back for customers with warranty issues and seen many fail over the last 10 years. Its a shame American manufactures can take proven systems like the FAL and G3 and completely botch them. Great way to address the stock issue. Well done.
This is probably the most thorough and accurate video out there regarding this subject. I would add a few things:
6:09 - 6:13 If you want to remove the cheek riser on the Spuhr stock in order to use the iron sights, be aware of 2 things. One, even with the cheekpiece removed, it is *literally impossible* to use the iron sights with the stock collapsed all of the way in at its shortest setting; the piece of the buttstock that interfaces with the cheek piece will interfere with your face, and you will not physically be able to smush or contort your face low enough in order to look through the rear sight. In my experience, the stock must be pulled out/back at least 3 clicks in order for your face to sit low enough to align the iron sights (if you have an especially large or "fat" face, you might need to pull out the stock even more than 3 clicks).
Further, something that I think is important to note if you insist on using the iron sights with the Spuhr stock after removing the riser....although everyone is a bit different in terms of their face positioning, comfort level, and every rifle is a bit different in terms of recoil/bolt gap, be warned--you might not find the experience very pleasant. If you have the stock extended out only the minimum amount to allow your face to align the iron sights, you need to be *very* careful, because there is a squared off section near the front of the stock that normally is covered by the cheek riser, and it is very close to your face. The potential problem with this, is that if you are shooting in an awkward position, or if you are careless or sloppy in keeping everything tight as you should, that squared off section can come back and hit your face right underneath your eye. I am not saying it will happen to everyone, nor that it will happen every time, but it is not a good thing to have happen.
If you must shoot the PTR/G3 with iron sights and Spuhr stock, my advice for the average person would be to either extend the length of the stock all of the way out, or somewhere nearly all of the way out. You lose the length of pull reduction advantage from the stock, but the added length of pull helps greatly to ensure that you get a better cheekweld without concern for that front squared off section possibly recoiling against your face; I personally find it much more comfortable. The Spuhr stock in fairness was designed primarily to be used with optics mounted on the rifle, and for that purpose I think it is fantastic.
*I think all things considered, your custom Magpul MOE stock conversion is probably a better idea for most people* . Not only is it cheaper, but because of its contour/shape with the cheek riser(s) removed, I think it would be much more comfortable to use with iron sights than the Spuhr stock.
Lastly regarding modernized handguards, a small point, but something I have noticed that is worth mentioning....many of these newer handguards such as the MI, or even PTR's aluminum ones utilize a hex-type screw in place of the original handguard pushpin. I haven't tried the MI one, but I've seen the hex screw on the PTR handguard over time loosen upon recoil; it probably would require some blue loctite to keep it from loosening on its own. Not the end of the world, but I don't necessarily like the idea of not being able to remove the handguard for normal maintenance, or to replace the cocking handle if needed. Both the Spuhr and Brugger and Thomet G3 forends utilize the original handguard pushpin, which stays in place and is easily removed and re-installed. Neither are cheap, and only the B&T comes with rail sections, but the Spuhr is very light and has a contour very similar to the slim plastic handguard.
Getting and installing an Hk21 buffer would be a good idea too. they really smooth out the gun
@@kenn_dang You raise actually another good point too Denny that I had forgotten about.
The Spuhr stock comes with two different pieces (a washer or a collet) to be used with the Spuhr buffer tube. I don't have an HK21 buffer to test in my stock, or a Swedish AK4 long pneumatic buffer to compare with it side by side, but I know the Swedish buffer will fit the Spuhr stock (if the included Buffer Tube Locking Washer is used), as it was a requirement of the Swedish contract that the stock must be able to fit their unique buffer. The HK21 one probably fits, but I am not 100% certain.
The regular G3 buffers work fine using the included Buffer Collet, but I have noticed that the "Enhanced Heavy Buffer" for the G3 that HKParts sells have caused me some cycling issues (mostly failure to go completely into battery) when I've used it with the Spuhr stock. Never had any issues previously using the normal G3 buffer with the Spuhr stock, and once I went back to the normal buffer, the issues went away (didn't clean the gun, change the locking piece or rollers or anything like that). Not sure 100% it was the Enhanced Buffer in the stock causing the problem, but it was kind of odd, and did not seem to be an ammo issue as best I could tell.
@@kenn_dang that's what I did. But you need the club foot stock to fit it and that stock is much heavier then the others. I also have the b&t rail. But you have to shave the hk 21 cocking handle down for it to clear the handguard
Great post, thank you for the added information. My take away is that if you want that Spuhr stock, save up enough so you can get the stock and optic all at once. That stock is designed for an optic so take the hint. Though honestly, if you as a shooter are on that tight of a budget this isn’t the best rifle for you unless it’s purely a collection thing/toy.
What are your thoughts on keeping the original stock and simply running a micro red dot? That would be nearly as low the irons and cheaper than just that stock depending on the sight chosen.
@@Erick_Bloodaxe Hello, I think you could make something like that work if you had to. *Some* red dots seem to be a bit more forgiving in terms of how good of a cheekweld you can get with the fixed plastic stock and no riser, but I don't think any of them really will ever be optimal without some type of (at least minimal) riser. A *potential* advantage in trying to make do with a suboptimal cheek weld on an unmodified fixed stock and a red dot, is that if you have a RDS with quick detach mount, you can use the irons normally without worrying about having to unscrew a cheek riser in a hurry. Most people aren't going to consider that an ideal trade-off though, if they are going to be mounting an optic as the primary sighting system.
There was a really excellent cheekpiece designed for the fixed plastic stock that could be attached and unattached in seconds (with NO tools!) but my understanding is that the company that made it is no longer in business. The stock is listed on RTG Parts website, but I don't think he will be getting any more in:
www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/HK-CHEEK-PIECE-p1879.htm
There is a picture out there of a German paratrooper(?) (I forget the specific term they use) from maybe 7 or 8 years ago with a very similar looking cheekpiece designed to be removed quickly from a G3 fixed stock, but I cannot find it at the moment.
You could of course always make your own cheek piece/riser out of simple foam and duct tape, it doesn't need to be expensive or elaborate at all...the only thing with that is, if you go that route, there is a possibility you will make it so that now you will be unable to get your face low enough to use the iron sights with your make-shift riser on the stock. I suppose a *possible* work around for this would be to try to place your cheek riser farther back on the stock, trying to leave some room in the front to place your face low enough for the irons, but I'm not sure how comfortable that would be.
There are probably other cheek pieces that are not made specifically for the G3/PTR but for other rifles like AKs that *might* work with a G3 stock too, but you'd have to look into that. I would try to find something ideally that could be removed without tools, at least if you were concerned with using the iron sights (if not, no big deal).
Whatever you do, please don't do something like the Brit operator at 12:09 did, fabricating a cheekpiece on the A4 retractable stock. That stock is about 1 lb heavier than the fixed plastic stock, and with the fabricated cheekpiece added on to it, the primary function of the A4 stock (collapsing down to make getting in/out of vehicles and tight spaces easier) is now rendered useless.
(I understand why he did it that way, the "K" model is a little lighter, and he was probably working with equipment limitations, so I'm not picking on him at all, but if I had other choices to accomplish the same thing on a G3, I would have done things differently).
Hopefully some of this has been helpful.
The more he hates what he is reviewing. The more enjoyment I get from the video.
I've had so many projects like this that it's kinda cathartic to watch someone else suffer.
Schadenfreude is real
But you hate everything, brass facts. Debbie downer, had to stop watching your depressing ass vids
"I'm going to miss it, but I'm also sick of fucking looking at it" describes many of my sold/traded firearms
I say this to my ex gfs
*BLASPHEMY!!* Gun Lives Matter!
I wasn’t ready for the “I hate that fuhckin gun” and it sent me full on rolling.
Funny as fuck!
rolling delayed
Yes, that WAS the funniest line!🤣
I hate that my PTR 91 is...heavy, awkward with poorly designed trigger/ mag release.
Poor design for the master race.
Still...I sold all my FALs because I am old, but still have the '91.
I am modernizing a M1A right now and this video has rehashed alot of trauma.
@Rando mainly the M apparently haha
Why?
@@snek9353 as a challenge
@@MagicPrepper Well I'm sure you're succeeding in that.
Unless you have a sage chassis you're wrong.
"A cope-M4, if you will."
MY FUCKING SIDES
New meme incoming
read it before hearing it
was still funny af
Go ahead, spend your money. Thousands of dollars
later how is that now?
@@InputHercules are you having a stroke?
Keymod works for The Home Depot's shelving so it's good enough for you gun
Only if you are the caliber of person who notices Home Depot's shelving setup.
Gross.
Local Sams Club and i think a Fedex went to MLOK
@@evangraham that name...a man of class.
Works for walmart too. Shit holds on like no other. I prefer keymod. Often lighter and I just think it looks cooler. Plus I have a shit load of rails for keymod and only one mlok
My PTR sits with an Mlok rail, Magpul MVG, Magpul bipod, and a PA 1-6. Hella heavy, unwieldy, and annoying to accessorize. But if I ever need to go out for 6 months shooting at pirates in the Gulf of Aden, it might be an ok option.
Yup, mine has a Knight rail fore grip, PSG-1 trigger group with an adjustable stock (I think it's from an m91?), IOR 1-6 Scope, one piece Rhienmetal bolt carrier. It's almost as accurate as my 700 police of the same caliber, but it's so damn heavy it feels like a workout shooting it offhand. Off a bipod though it's quite fun. If I have to grab a rifle to repel bad guys though, I'll grab an AR.
I've got a ptr32 (don't ask why). It's got almost no recoil, but I only use it with a bipod because of the weight. It's fun but man do I hate to doing run and gun practice with it
@@unavailableusername9694 that’s cool AF, a PSG-1 trigger group and a knights fore grip. Ps IOR Makes some of the best Optics.
@@mattezuka1274 why
My idea for my 91 was to keep it simple and don't even attempt to modify it for night vision. Bare minimum add a red dot, flash light, sling. It's more useful than a M1A but less useful than an AR-10. Break it in to be mostly reliable, shoot it, learn the weapon system, maybe upgrade the recoil spring and buffer ring but otherwise run it as is. Ak guys who actually train have a saying don't m4 your AK and I think that applies to any G3 variant too.
Back in college in the 90s, my good friend had a HK91. This was during the AWB so you trained with what you had. He shot the hell out of it. Took what classes you could back then. That thing was a beast.
I knew a guy who had al sorts of illegal shit during the AWB. guy had connections, I was envious. Died in a gun battle 15 years ago with some bikers. RIP Jimmyxxx, you are missed
@@brettalexander220 play stupid games, win stupid prizes...
@@brettalexander220 RIP King
By buddy bought a HK91 in 1982 and it just ran. Only issue we ever ran into was when the gun jammed and it looked like the bullet had backed off into the case. Turns out that the gun ripped the fired cartridge case in half and ejected the back portion, The next round chambered and welded itself to the cartridge that was ripped in-half. Used a cleaning rod to knock the round out of the chamber, reload and the gun ran flawlessly after that with no other failures ever. He paid $550 in 1982, which is to about $1,800.00 today,
"Segment of the population who matters"
*Ian McCollum has left the server*
Rip gun jesus
Also Garand Thumb and Larry Vickers? IIRC
But they shoot right handed.
pretty ignorant comment of his, if you ask me.
*Ian uploads latest video*
Ian has re-entered the chat
The ptr is the lifters gun.
I have a Galil on the way, do I lift too?
@@CREEPINGIRON .308?
@@durkhurker6268 She is a 5.56.
@@CREEPINGIRON weak boy
@@tubeguy4066 Believe me I had my sights set on the .308, but this opportunity just came up so suddenly.
As a lefty I'm glad you keep giving us shout outs man.
I don't know how to hate you. I think I hate you for being wrong handed but fuck Marx just in case.
Same!!
See Ian's g3 custom on forgotten weapons he has a lefty g3 with spur furniture
I bought a lefty cocking tube for my PSG clones that I’m having built, but decided to go with the HK righty tube instead. I seriously toss around just having the lefty tube put on it regularly.
They fear us lefthanded folk after all we tend to be assassins riiight ;)
Going the knockoff Swedish AK4 route?
A man of culture, I see.
The swedish ak4 has metal trigger housing. Much more ergonomic than blocky polymer grip a la g36
@@manganvbg90 problem is BATFags. USA allowed versions cant have the opportunity to mate with an original cetme/hkg3 trigger housing. The front housing pins to the receiver are replaced with a bulky shelf that a crossbar in the housing (where some giggle bits would be) rests on, which is why they seem so bulky. fun fact, if you remove the trigger housing and put a hole for normal trigger housings to connect to, you now have a felony on your hands as its now easily convertible to full auto.
@@thejunky1908 ptr makes versions with clipped and pinnes metal housings aswell
@@thejunky1908 I bought a surplus CETME L housing and selector lever, trimmed the hole in the front of trigger housing and the wings until it matched the shelf. It sits on the shelf, held in by the stock. Functions great and only cost about $20. Clipped and pinned housings go for insane prices IMHO
Not chasing any AR, for anything. My PTR does what I got it for.
The first lesbian to review a ptr. This is groundbreaking
"The Gun Lesbians Love to Hate."
He’s not a lesbian he’s ripley from Alien
Stunning and brave.
Best tactical lesbian ever deployed to UA-cam
It's too heavy for her to add a metal lower or a trigger job
If little kids in Africa can run the G3 so can you.
look, nobody said they run it WELL...
@@echodelta2172 good enough to plant a whole lot of motherfuckers.
I don't think you know what the word 'modern means.
@@calholli doesn’t matter if it’s modern or not. It works. We spend a lot “modernizing” the Ak and AR platforms also. These just take a little extra because the Hk engineers hate people. They never envisioned all the wiz bang force multiplayers we have now 60 years ago.
@deserada so it works, it just doesn't make financial sense?
I love mine only because it ruins brass for the fudds
HA! I love that! I went to my first public range sometime last year (usually I just shoot at the house), and found it was true. Of course, some old geezer walks up, "Hey, you plan to keep your brass?"... The politeness in me said, "Go ahead, man.". But, inside my head I was saying, "Get the fuck out of here!".. Oh well. Doubt he'll be making much use of brass from a fluted chamber, ejected into low orbit.
Not really true they reload fluted 308 all the time especially in the middle east
@@rodgersmith1573 I don't have any problem reloading that shit it's only dumbasses that don't know how to do it
>using brass to begin with
Ngmi
I have had my g3 clone for over 5 years at first it destroys the brass then i took scotch bright and a old 3o caliber bore Bush with copper past compound and polished it after the 2nd polishing also no fluting marker with full load 150 165 180 and 200 i can get over 8 to 12 reloads per case and the extraction impulse is less then 1/2 of what it was i have over 2000 rounds fired in the rifle i came a cross a parts store the had the original full bcg assembly fa and factory nos ni complete lower metal fcg and i ordered two all the parts was under 175.00 the new bolt gap is out of the 2.0 to 5.0 a 3.0 my old bcg is a LOSE 2.25 just think 65 year old new parts for 60% of a prt newly available bcg. This gun is so sweet every one is in shock after shooting it i tell them l just got a gem not very many g3 ptr c308e. sa centme's or clones will be anything like mine.
This video is the "trying to turn a gun into something it's not" come to life.
You had more problems in 20 minutes with the PTR than I've had in 20 years with the Ak4.
its obvious to me that he bought a brand new PTR and he had not done enough research and break in period for the rifle. You get alot of problems with the first 100 rounds and after that, nothing stops it.
@@MusikCabaret except accessory mounting that gets it out of the cold war.
He got pretty unlucky never had a single failure in 2k rounds with my ptr
@@tomtom590 not as many rounds through mine somewhere around 500 and problem free
“Unusable for left handed shooters”
Ian McCollum: “and I took that personally”
And leftys are what 5% and statistically artsy types. I met a good 20k soldiers in my time in the army a further 2 to 4k civvie shooters. Only ever met 1 lefty. Trained in SLR L1A1. At the time lefty was becoming a modern ( I believe marketing dollar thing rather than actual numbers of use) someone was like is there a left vers..nope fuk em. They learn to shoot or die
Doesn't Ian dislike the g3?
@@ozdavemcgee2079 that’s hilarious cause myself and half my squad overseas were all lefties 😂 then you get that weird fuck who shoots rifle lefty but pistol righty. Fucked up
The easy fix for this is actually making an ambidextrous, modular setup. I am a lefty and my go-to are bullpup style rifles as a result of this. Easy to use, and only "clunky" if you're trying to force your experience from an AR into a rifle that is everything but that.
I also have two PTR's, but it's definitely funky when it comes to reloading. Still enjoy them, though!
@@austinwiorek5407 I’m that weird fuck. I wish I wasn’t but I’m blind in my right eye and right handed. I’ve thought about switching to full lefty but it’s actually kind of handy to be able to get your shooting hand on your pistol while transitioning your rifle down with your left. It works well so why change it.
Can't we all just admit that the only reason to buy a g3 is because they look cool and are nostalgic. Plus mags are 7 bucks.
I'm in the Swedish Home guard and the rifle is named AK4 here. Recently got the stock changed to the spuhr stock and it has done wonders for me in the sense that it got shorter. I'm not very tall and with a shorter stock I found it easier to control. Being able to hold it closer to the muzzle made it easier to control the recoil, and it is quite precise over longer distances as well. I like this more than the AK5 that the Swedish army uses.
yeah. the ak4 stock is way too long. removing the rubber pad also does wonders.
give it 1000 rounds and both you and the rifle will be set to go! I talk by experience, thats more or less how long it took me to consider my dad's cetme a good fighting rifle, we got it new and we thought it was trash until we broke it in.
Yeah it all about training. But is combat training weight is a huge factor.
Great video showing the limitations of the design. I've had my PTR-100 GI for a little over a year. No malfunctions and about 250 rounds in (I know, I know... but in 2020 and early 2021 I could have had plenty of ammo or shot a lot; I opted for having plenty of ammo). The only add-ons I got were a West German Bundeswehr surplus claw mount and two surplus wood furniture sets. The stock sets went from reasonably priced to almost unobtainium last year. It is the perfect rifle for my needs: a general purpose rifle for the North Cascade mountains. It looks cool, is reliable, accurate, and will kill anything in North America out to 400 yards with irons or 800 with a scope. I would NOT want this rifle for a modern combat or night time role of any sort. I'm very satisfied with it because in my mind it's an historical rifle and I don't have modern expectations of it.
I always wanted to ask someone who spent $300 on a claw mount if it was worth the money. Is it?
@@tinkerjeeppublications9823 That's a tough one. I'm inclined to say no. The rifle is apparently out of spec ever so slightly but just enough so that the claw mount doesn't mount where it should, but directly forward of the proper location. I have so far been unable to zero the scope at the range because the rounds aren't on paper. I need to find a measured 100 yard range that allows a sheet of plywood with an X in it or something. I could do that in the woods somewhere, but where I live it's mountainous and 100 level yards are hard to find. So, no. It's not worth it. Get a PTR100 with the pic rail welded on it and forget the claw mount. Spend $300 on ammo instead.
@@bhoward9378 I feel for you, man. I have similar issues with the top flat of my GI receiver being slightly tilted to one side, so the "bolt-on" rails are not level and flat. I can add a typical bolt on rail, then clamp a Pic rail riser onto that, and my Sig dot on it's riser onto that, and it leans to one side like the tower of Pisa. So my optics have to be low and light weight. The MFI Ultra Low Rise mini rail is perfect for my needs with the Sig Romeo 5. Both are low, small, lightweight, and quality .
Also, most of those HK claw mounts were fitted to specific service rifles by the armorers of which ever military or paramilitary force used them. They are not a Glock. Some fitting is required.
Sight in at 35 yards. Spec on these guns with 7.6NATO is zero them at 35 yards. And once done, the POI will be the same at 35 and 200 yards. If you cant see further than 100 yards due to terrain, you dont need a scope. That's why US military thinking justified 5.56 and iron sights on the M16s. Everyone could hit that far, and most infantry combat occurred within that range.
Go to the western prairies and the full potential of 308 and a scope becomes a factor.
the g3 has its advantages over an ar for combat. The roller lock is violent enough to clear debris from the action and its more accurate
tinkerjeep. The m16 and by extension all intermediates are basically oversized smg's
I think the different battery of arms that comes with the G3 is what really messes people up in regards to it's capabilities. That being said, I think you hurt the gun's feelings cause I've never seen someone with so much bad luck with this platform LOL
Yeah, this thing is definetaly not made to be a night gun, but I humped it around in the army for 18 months no problem in all conditions and I trust it with my life over most other options out there. He must of gotten a bad one, and/or he is used to different platforms. He should have sent it back for repairs.
Why does the mall keep letting this mannequin escape?
I don't get it
It comes to life after midnight or when James sends it a new gun.
@@calholli I think he's making fun of Hop's pale complexion.
He is armed
@@gsxr1189and because he always wears shades like a mannequin.
My wife is adorable and she says “smoosh”, when I’m feeling adorable I say “smoosh”, so hearing “smoosh” in a battle rifle upgrade video is hilarious. And adorable.
Cool wife
Cool video. Keep up the good work partner.
lucky bastard
@@jakegrube9477 Hop has replied to me before too
@@brahtrumpwonbigly7309 talking about the guy with a wife
Knowing Hop and where he is I feel a PTR/G3 is an ideal pick to have on hand to enjoy in the PNW
Good Bigfoot defense gun?
Curious about your thoughts on why
As opposed to an AR-10?
I got the C308 ... and as soon as I opened the box and picked it up, I knew exactly what Nutnfancy meant by SAWC.
@@ReptilianLepton bigfoot lives in British Columbia
TBH the best configuration for any G3 clone is cold war aesthetic because sometimes cool > practical. Same for the FAL and MP5. Fun project though, and I'd really be into a similar video about the AUG. It's mostly good with just a couple things that need to be tweaked
what do you mean for the MP5? that thing is a monster!
This is honestly one of the only guns I want to buy even though it would be pretty much useless to me. Wouldn’t do any modernization, I’d try to get it as close to a g3a3
Mostly useless? At least its a good workout
@@rowdyzack5914 hahaha good point
Same here. Not sure where my fascination came from, but I’ve always wanted a plain G3a3 clone. After all of the research, they make little sense compared to the competition. But, damn, do they look cool.
Ya and add the wood furniture.
My century C308 has had literally “0” malfunctions in the 3 years I’ve had it and roughly 500 rounds I’ve put through it, mostly steel case. And with Gold Medal Match, it’s damn near MOA at 100 yards. It was $650 out the door… I put a Burris LPVO on it, still have stock furniture and have no problems hitting torso sizes targets out to 500yards.
I think a lot of people confuse Century arms first CETME with the C308. When I picked mine up Wally world had perfecta ammo for $7 a box. Over two thousand rounds, no failures.
I also picked up a C308 about 2.5 years ago. My only mods were a sling, a new (cheap) front hand guard with bottom picatinny rail only, a really beefy vertical grip, and a See-Thru Open Site. I got mine as an overstock firesale from Centerfire Systems for $499. At that price I couldn't pass it up.
>500 rounds in 3 years, burris, lpvo, muh no jams
Unholy justasgood copepost, god damn
@@ep2295 I owned a Hk-91 in the 90s, I prefer the C308. Just my opinion.
@@ep2295 LMAO, it writes itself.
I rock an original PTR 91F. I haven't had nearly the issues you describe, short of the break in period with numerous ejection failures which had to be resolved by a replacement ejection lever. She runs and feeds and ejects fine. But yeah, she is heavy and does do a lot of pushing-around. Those buffer-tube stocks alone look well worth it.
I run my GI
Retractable stock
Wide green handguard
That's it
Recoil isn't even that bad tbh
Ive read on forums that you can change the locking piece to help mitigate recoil as well, especially when shooting suppressed.
@@rwcjcf6266 I have noticed also that some fixed plastic stocks are noticeably more or less comfortable than others to use, even within the same gun that might have an "ideal" bolt-gap. It probably does have something to do with recoil and buffer springs as eventually they will wear out (ranges that rent full autos probably accelerate this process quite a bit). I've never gone to the trouble to replace recoil springs but partly that is due to the fact that entire fixed stock assemblies have usually been reasonably cheap and available.
@@Detective.John.Kimble I can't speak to shooting suppressed, but as far as recoil, changing the locking piece in a round-about way might slightly affect perceived recoil, but it is highly unlikely you are going to notice a difference simply with that change.
More than anything else, the "Bolt-Gap", the distance between the back of the bolt head and the bolt carrier after the trigger has been pulled, is what is going to affect how "light", or how "hard" the recoil is felt by the shooter. The lower the Bolt Gap, the "harder" the gun is going to recoil. Some people will claim that heavy buffers will dramatically mitigate felt recoil from PTRs/G3s when used in place of the regular buffer, in the same stock, and that might be their own experience, but I have not seen this personally to really be true (just my opinion).
The official tolerance numbers I guess have been amended over time by HK, but supposedly the official tolerance the G3/MP5 has for its Bolt Gap is as high as .020 of an Inch, and as low as .004 of an Inch (.508 mm to 0.1016 mm).
I would *NOT* want to shoot a G3 with a Bolt Gap all the way down at .004.
Hell yea, that’s how you do it
i dont think mine recoils bad.
Hello there! I am portuguese and this country had and still have the H&K G-3, in 7,62X51mms since the 60s. We took it to the ex colonial war (1961-75) and I had to join the regular army of Portugal, and the G-3 was still around in full use. (1985/6) What a battle rifle. I'd go to war with it. Portugal had its own production under license from H&K. Now we got nothing!! 😢😢 Glad to hear from you all this work, and I am happy that others still and can enjoy shooting this. I miss "my" G-3, despite not needing it to defend me and my love ones, so far... I will have to turn to a replica... (This is so stupid and weird...) Thank you for reading my boring and idiot comment. Meanwhile I wish you just the very best!!!
All Im getting from this video is that I still wanna build me a PTR regardless of weight.
You'd think that when HK tried making a successor to the MP5 they'd be like "Hey, let's just take this reliable roller-lock system, apply some modern engineering, and iron out all the awkward bits."
Instead we got the UMP....
I've always felt the UMP gets more hate than it deserves. It's genuinely an improvement over the MP5 but just not enough to make it it's successor.
@@majestic._ I don't think anyone hates the UMP, it's just disappointing - plenty of competent blowback SMGs came before and after it that were far more affordable and just as reliable.
The UMP isn't really the rub here anyways - it's the fact that H&K completely discounted and/or ignored what made the MP5 popular. People were (and still are) more than willing to put up with the weight and price (despite cheaper and lighter options), the roller-lock system was (is) just that good.
I'm not sure what's happened to H&K's management or culture over the years, but whatever it is they've clearly thrown out most of their originality and inventiveness in order to produce the same cookie-cutter shit every other company makes these days.
The UMP isn't an improvement over anything, but its not a step back either. Its a sidestep evolution.
To help break down my rationale, I'll break down some of the basics of SMG generations:
Gen 1: Milled receivers, expensive to make and heavy. Good Examples are the MP-18 and Thompson.
Gen 2: Stamped sheet metal or tube receivers. Very cheap and easy to produce. Great examples are the MP-40, Sten and Grease Gun.
Gen 3: This is a hotly debated step whether or not its actually a new generation or continuation of Gen 2 but the key difference is that these SMGs start getting shorter and more compact by putting the magazine in the grip using telescoping bolts or other methods to keep a longer barrel. Uzi and MAC 10 for example.
Gen 4: Gen 3 SMGs diverge from Gen 2 by adding a little more cost to their manufacturing, but gain improved controllability and user friendliness by using shrunken down rifle operating systems, ergos and moving primarily to a closed bolt. Examples of course include the MP5 family, MP7 and the MPX
My point: The UMP is fundamentally a Gen 2 SMG but with injection molded polymer replacing sheet steel, adding a dash of Gen 3 modernization features and using a closed bolt (which some Gen 1 and 2 SMGs used). A bit long winded but context is everything in these things.
@@shockwave6213 Your reasoning sounds largely arbitrary.
First off, despite my complaints the UMP _is_ one of the earliest steps towards "modern" SMGs (such as the Scorpion Evo 3 or APC9) - guns with modernized controls and ergonomics, standardized accessory attachment points, modular components/furniture, and polymer or milled aluminum receivers. These are nowhere near being in the same class as a bunch of old WWII weapons.
Secondly, your classification of the MP5 as being so generationally distinct from the Uzi or MAC-10 is bizarre, considering all three guns originate from the same time period (late 50s to 60s). Functionally different of course, but all three originate among a host of Cold War-era SMGs trying different things.
Last thing I want to address is your description of AR9-style firearms as "using shrunken down rifle operating systems" - that is not accurate in the slightest. There are exactly _two_ SMGs in the world that do this: the MP5, which uses a variant of the roller-delayed blowback system from the G3 family of rifles; and the SIG MPX, which uses an extremely shortened version of the short-stroke piston system seen in the MCX rifle series. Every other modern SMG uses either direct blowback, or a proprietary delayed-blowback system designed specifically for that gun.
@@kyotra You were right about the AR 9 and I edited to omit that gun but also added the MP7 as a short stroke gas piston operated gun. Guess I was tired that day. My classifications and reasoning stem straight from Ian at Forgotten Weapons and I'd wager he knows more about guns than just about anyone else. In this video at about 15 minutes in, he also agrees the UMP is Gen 2 with newer materials. ua-cam.com/video/5Hrfxu_K9HY/v-deo.htmlsi=Ydg489ECZTEcPr92
I can't watch more Nutnfancy. There isn't enough time in the day to view one video.
Lol His videos (mostly) are shorter these days, but you could always watch them on 2x speed...
my PTR91 has been flawless and has yet to jam, or failure to fire. its a tank of a rifle and just as good as anything out there. it all comes down to how much you practice with it. i prefer my ptr91 over any m4 or ar-10.
There was this one company who developed an AR-10 receiver to take HKG3 magazines so you could use cheap surplus magazines instead of the more expensive Magpul AR10 magazines. I really liked the idea of it tbh but I didn’t snag one when they did release them. I believe it was a limited run.
It sucks that you’ve had so many issues with your PTR. I’ve had a great experience with the C308 I got a few years ago, but I recognize I’m one of the few.
My C308 has run like a Swiss clock. No break in period.
My c308e runs fantastic i polished the chamber and it does not destroy the brass anymore its fully reloadable many many times over.
I got a 2020 production PTR GI mine worked great first day at the range with steel and brass. I was surprised to hear his result
My C308 hasn't had a single malfunction.
Same here. Mine will happily eat everything from 145gr 7.62 to 180gr .308, and I personally like it more than the AR-10 platform. Nothing beats the HK slap.
Add a paracord between the sling and the metal attachment will allow it to drop off without impeding the functioning of the charging handle. Also, put the single eye NOD on non master eye, in case light comes on, then u can use your master eye to aim thru the optics.
I like the way you put this,"It doesn't beat you up, but it does push you around." Never heard that before, excuse my ignorance, but well said. I own an AR-10 type by Windham Weaponry, a Springfield M1A as well as a PTR-91, so I have some experience with the .308 win/7.62. The HK 91 design is a great shooter in my humble opinion, but this thing is a Battle Rifle. It is an accurate Battle Rifle, other than that, it has so little to offer compared to other platforms and the other platforms, especially the AR-10, have an aftermarket that allows a personal critique not found with the HK91.
PTR 91: If you want to shoot .308 but also need to hit the gym.
You make perhaps the highest quality videos in the genre. Each one adds substantially to our collective knowledge, particularly in understanding the use of the equipment for shooting in something above a square range environment. The night vision information is particularly helpful and there are very few high quality videos of the type. Thank you! I'll be watching and sharing your videos for as long as you make them. 👍🏻
On my PTR91 GI, if I get a low profile mount red dot I find I don't need the riser on the stock, so I swapped it out for the MFT mini. Used the magpul mp5 lower and a wood handguard. Heavy PCS recoil buffer. Got it to 9.5 lbs, still heavy, but about as good as you can get these. Very first round out of it stove-piped, but I haven't had a single malfunction after that for years.
I dumped some money into mine when it was my only rifle, but I came to the same conclusion. It's too heavy and unwieldy as well. I just dressed it up a bit with carry handle and heat shield handguard to look cool and use iron sights. It's a range toy/backup rifle, and that's it. Mags used to be $1-3 a pop, so it was pretty cheap to load up. I probably should've got a FAL though.
@ Riflemanm 16a2 He is a brave man to oufit his PTR with ALL of this stuff. I have one with a Spuhr stock/hanguard/top rail and an optic (the Trijicon TA33 that I had was the lightest one). Any more than that and maybe a light, I think is really pushing it. It can be done, but most people will probably come to the same conclusion he did.
FAL is no different than a G3 they are both "outclassed" by modern battle rifles. In many ways the G3 will edge out the FAL especially in terms of accuracy and reliability.
I’ve owned both. Got disappointed when my FAL’s charging handle came off in my hand on one range trip because the only thing keeping it attached to the gun is a single little pin and the handle shaft is so thin it bent.
Sold my FAL and PTRs and bought a SCAR.
I modernized my FAL. Only Grip is that it is heavy, despite starting out as an 18" Para FAL which is lighter than the classic FAL. I can get between 1.5 and 2MOA with it.
@@almostontimehero5415 Para is way to go. Classic FAL also has the worst damn iron sights.
I just want the PTR-91 GI because Le Cool
Part of me 100% agrees with ar10 and ar15's being souless and lacking a certain coolness you get with a g3, fal, ak, galil, etc.
Another part of me says if you want a g3, leave the wood furniture on it and keep it simple and retro and have your at setup as a modern fighting rifle.
Wood furniture? Love to if you could get it! Do you know a place to get wood furniture for a G3-type rifle? CETME wood is easy to find, but doesn't fit w/o significant work.
It’s not that they are soulless it’s just that we’ve seen them everywhere in every configuration in every length everyone has one that’s what everyone shoots it’s been ingrained in our heads for decades the difference is the other battle rifles have this cool factor about them it’s like watching a 80s action movie thrill when you see one because that’s where they were so iconic and most of the bad guys or special forces used them. I don’t care how modern and decked out your new age ar10 is it could be a KAC for all I care if someone next to you is rocking a ptr91 like the one in this video trying to be modernized even if mediocre it’s still way too fucking cool and I’d rather shoot it then the boring KAC we know what to expect out of it and after a while it’s boring but a g3 it’s like a old muscle car it sucks it drives like shit but you can somewhat modernize it you can sorta make it work it will never be that new Camaro or mustang good but I’d rather roll around in the old one anyday
I also bought this same PTR and it's basically a cool old school gun to shoot. I've gotten a red dot on it, swapped out the stock to put a Magpul stock like yours and since I'm not using it for HD defense or my go to gun, it has a simple sling and no lights. I didn't want to waste more money to get the M-Lok rails or 1913s. There's no point. I got better more modern guns for this
Dude I said this the other day, Hop looks like all the guns that he owns. This G3 exemplifies my assessment.
the g3 does not look like a twink
Then there are those of us who really don’t care about optics, weight or all the gizmos that don’t make a person a marksman. I prefer the G3 over AR’s I just love them🥰
Relatively unrelated tip: One of the heavy rubber buttpads for the standard fixed stocks do a great deal in mitigating felt recoil IF you're ok with rocking irons.
Magpul PRS stock, Athlon Helos BTR 2-12x42 scope. Which has a lot of clearance for the charging handle. It is short and has a 42mm Bell. Vortex Pro series scope rings. (Center is cut out so you can use iron sights.) And with the Magpul adjustable cheek riser it takes ten seconds to lower. Aim sports Mlok handguard, Mlok sling mount , Black slate industries rail covers,and a Bill Springfield trigger job. (4.25lbs.) And his recoil buffer.(30% reduction.) Buy one with a heavy 18 inch barrel. (Which is more of a medium weight.) Then add a muzzle device. I went with a ZEV. Reduces flash and recoil.
I've had my H&K 91 since 1983 and have never had a failure to fire ever. I've shot most of the surplus back then and any junk that turned up in between. The claw mounts work fine for any 30mm tube, the slim hand-guard works well, and the original collapsible stock works great but length of pull leaves much to be desired.As far as manual of arms goes, you have to remember that this design goes back to the late 30's. Practice with the rifle and you will become proficient. Comparing it to a modern gun is an apple to oranges comparison. If you compare it to it's competitors at the when issued you will find that it was quite an innovative weapon.
G3: Old School cool, in a world of new hotness
My Aero M5 was $1200 bucks. I think I am in maybe $1800 with a 16 inch upper and a 20 inch upper. Even with the 20 inch upper, I am barely tipping scales at 9 lbs. It has a good 15 inch free float Mlok forend. It shoots el cheapo steel case reliably and puts most 147 to 150 gr FMJ from Wolf to Fed LC into 1.5 inch off a bench. I run the 16 inch with a Trijicon TA-11J ACOG and the 20 inch with a Primary Arms PLX 1-8 Griffin Mil FFP. Watching people try to modernize G3s and M1As always makes me glad I went with the AR10.
Babe wake up new hoplop
I just bought a CETME C kit. I really just love the history. It seems clear that you have a love hate love relationship with the platform. You will regret selling her.
I have to say the PTR rifles of today are not the rifles of yesterday. I have two rifles from them, a Texas edition with the weird length hand guard and 16” barrel and a black GI spec rifle from 2016ish and both were flawless out of the box. I have week over 3k rounds out of the Texas edition as I use it on my farm and even first mag out of the box never had a failure. The black rifle has sub 1000 rounds but not a failure either.
I’ve had friends get modern PTR rifles with horrible failures despite looking fantastic. I don’t know if their move a few years back or them trying to shit out Mp5 clones has over stressed their QC but it is not as good as it was.
I wish I were a fly on the wall observing the shop floor and the different operations going on. Granted, the welding operations involved bring an additional layer of difficulty to the manufacturing process, and clearly you can't just throw in anybody to learn an operation like that, but it doesn't seem like they are cranking out thousands upon thousands of rifles per year, either...so I'd imagine the majority of QC issues should probably be caught before the guns get out the door, and probably are.
Do you recall offhand what type of failures some of your friends have had with their PTRs?
I had one like 4 years ago and it was horribly inaccurate
@@dexm2010 The front sight block was canted along with the cocking tube, but whatever that’s not a “big” deal, but he was having a lot of issue with bolt overrunning the next round.
@@UlookinMe Damn...that sucks.
What’s up with PTR reliability? I served with a G3, military ammo and never had issues with it. Heavy yes, but reliable always. I also carried a 22lbs radio, 1st gen kevlar helmet and flak-jacket. That’s probably why I’m always looking for lighter options nowadays))
The guy modified so much on this gun, it probably affected the reliability. I have one myself and it never ever gave me trouble. Typical situation of a young kid starting to tune his car and wonder why after a while it drives shitty.
I love my PTRs. They are heavy and I probably would't grab it first to go into combat, but they are fun to shoot, look awesome and while hop has the worst lulck, mine are super reliable. Partnered with wood and not trying to modernize they look fantastic and are some of my favorite guns.
Another great stock option if you’re willing to spend the money is the factory collapsing stock, and for another $60 flat HKParts will cut 1 or 2 custom length of pull notches for you. I’m 5’9” so that was a great help. I got mine cut at about the halfway point, which gives me a much better LOP compared to the stock being all the way out. Shortens the rifle up quite a bit, to about the length of a 16” AR. I’m using a 1.5/6x Elcan with RMR, a SAW foregrip, bipod, and streamlight pro-tac on the extended MLOK handguard, however I have the top piece of the extension removed so I can still throw the bayonet on. Because why not. I have a pice of pic rail on there awaiting an IR laser. As it sits, the rifle is 14.5lbs with a loaded 20 round mag. Sounds heavy but my issued rifle was a M4 with 203, ACOG, PEQ16, and GLS so quite frankly it feels lighter than that and it slings .308. PTR’s after break in are dead reliable but I have replaced all internals with HK unissued surplus from RTG, including the tungsten filled bolt, and a CHF barrel topped with a manticore nightbrake. The rifle has ZERO rise to it. I picked the G3 because I love it, and it’s robustness and refusal to quit working. Mines about a 2 MOA rifle all day which is plenty accurate for combat, despite Americans belief that a rifle has to be sub 1/2 MOA to be worth anything. Also agree people care way too much about reload speed, but if you run the gun it’s not bad, I’m pretty quick with it now after a couple years. Parts are plentiful and pretty cheap, and the rifle is easy to work on. I think more people ought to consider them.
4:20 Cheapest solution: count and keep track of rounds expended/remaining.
Thank god I have a well functioning FAL, being able to adjust the gas flow is a luxury compared to the drama required to adjust the 91/CETME. All these little issues is why I built my own 91 (except the receiver, I suck at welding) since only having around $700 I’m in my comfort zone compared with $1,600 and up. To me, the FAL and 91/G3 series rifles are in the boutique category and I don’t shoot them enough to justify the cost since I have quite a few other battle rifles to choose from. I did notice that parts kits and other surplus parts is starting to dry up so I’m buying a bunch of magazines and high wear replacement parts. The parts inventory could dry up a lot quicker if some gun dealer developed a rifle that looks sexy and was selling good, we saw this in the FAL market, it’s a pain trying to find an FAL steel magazine since DSA started making their version of the FAL. And please keep in mind that we could be hit with an aggressive gun ban without warning if the left tries to do what Clinton did with his executive power, we all remember that fun time period. I’m just not taking chances.
Personally I think the G3 platform fits the DMR roll decently if you go for a msg90/psg1 setup. Although it is heavier than a beached oil tanker
Heavy for women,..oops,..did I offend you,..
@@gregflores8959 For the DMR roll the problem with G3's isn't so much that's it's heavy it's that's it's an outdated rifle, and they aren't nearly as accurate as an AR10. Look at all the modifications HK had to do to the PSG1 to get the G3 design to meet the 1 MOA requirement that the government put in place for the PSG1.
@@gsxr1189 actually you can now do some internal mods to the PTR91 to make it very close to 1 moa now
this is what i built. cetme-c bolt carrier, trigger group and stock, ptr91 receiver flat, psg1 long trunnion, g3 irons, and a ptr barrel that i turned down to take the cetme cocking tube. It's ugly but f^&*ing beautiful at he same time.
Just bought one from a friend at the local gun shop. It has a PSG1 style stock and a lot of upgrades and he is throwing in some extra mags and 300 rounds of match ammo. Can't wait to fire it.
You should do an ak modernization project and start a flame war in the process.
I do love me some modern ak
Just get a Galil Ace. Best modernized AK there is.
@@joshuagibson2520 I'm not at all an AK guy and even I kind of want one.
@@joshuagibson2520 idk man. I think it's cool, but it's got some flaws I am not a fan of. A regular guy training did a video on this a few years back. I do like the ace though, I just think it needs a few changes to really up it's game. It's got a lot of potential and it wouldn't be hard to get it there.
@@edwardlilley1705 amen brother. I've yet to get my hands on anything "stock" that I was 100% happy with.
this 20 minute long video is a great affirmation of why the ar platform is just so gosh dang good
Or the fact that HK doesn't just standardize the AK4D for US market😂😂. Also AR15 or AR18 Variants have way more US research and development thus the platform has more options readily available. If Battle rifles like the AR10/SR25 were more readily available itd be just as good of a platform.
How have I never heard of you before? This is an awesome channel.
Also, it's so weird to see reliability issues with these things. I had a century C308 back in the day and it was perfectly reliable after 5k+ rounds. I know that's not very much but for a broke teenager that shit fuckin rocked. Such a fun gun....when they work. But I never even had as much as a stovepipe. No out of batteries or misfeeds. I think I got whatever the opposite of a lemon is.
and c308s are the worse versions of these
With the cost of building a AR-10 in the $500-$700 range depending on options it really makes trying to "Modernize" the G-3 a foolish endeavor unless you already own it. But with the AR-10 you can also have a 12ga. upper and a 6.5 Creedmoor upper all in the same transit case and swap uppers based on application. God Bless Eugene Stoner and his modular weapons systems.
I came really close to grabbing a ptr 91 last year, but I ended up going with the sa58. The g3 platform is really cool and I would love to be able to enjoy using it, but I am afraid hk does not build guns for people like me. I am left handed and this is my story
With the FAL you get to do the cool reach under AK reload
@@gundude82 and unlike the g3 it has bolt hold open, a stock not made for giants, a collapsing stock that is both aesthetic as fuck with wood and polymer, optics mounting that doesn’t require welding or optics requiring a weird non zero retaining system, and is probably heavier than either a AR10 or g3.
A company like Parabellum Combat Systems probably (I don't know for sure) could build a left handed G3 rifle, but it would not be cheap.
@@baker90338 Do you have an FAL? The railed dust-cover thing always bothered me, not sure if it's stable.
@@crowsbridge I’m not sure either, but you can experiment with it if you want
This video always sobers me up whenever I think about buying one for any reason other than a range toy.
Everybody needs a couple good range toys though.
I bought one of these online and canceled the order before it shipped when I realized I’d rather put the money into an LMT MWS.
This is the way.
The rifle is not as bad as he claims. I never had any issues with mine, I did my research for best components and right now this is the only rifle I have not traded or sold off in the past 3 years. Its a beast.
After buying a Springfield M1A as my first rifle, and being a glutton for punishment, I followed you and bought a PTR91 with the 16in barrel, but no rail. so happy to be in another love/hate relationship 🙃. I think it would be an absolute riot to see you give an M1A the same treatment as a PTR. You'd probably hate it, but it would be a joy to watch 🤣
Oh god, why the no rail version? LOL
If you do decide to go the clamp on route, MFI ultra lows are the best bolt/clamp on rail. HK Parts is their exclusive seller. If you decide you want a rail welded on by a gunsmith, then HK Parts also sells various lengths of Pic rail with a G3 receiver top profile for the express purpose of welding it on.
A trick for knowing when you’re about to be out is making sure the last two rounds in the mags are tracers.
That is a neat trick... except for giving out your position. Nice for everyday practice. I learned my ammo out tempo the hard way, by shooting a F ton of ammo.
@@almostontimehero5415 His muzzle brake already gave out his position so I don’t think that’s much of a concern lol
@@almostontimehero5415 if you've fired enough rounds that your down to your last 2 I don't think you're being sneaky sneaks anymore. Not to mention as a civilian if you're shooting people while "hiding" you're probably gonna get bent over in court and charged with murder in most cases
@@bowlofrice8 Pre-emptive self defense at 500yards officer, I swear! Am I being detained!?
@@almostontimehero5415 "Guy down the block was looking sus so I blasted him."
About the Portuguese army: The last iteration of the G3 fielded by deployed troops was fielded in the following configuration: Retractable stock(the oldest of the mods since the fixed ones crack in the middle), tri-picatiny rail, PEQ on the right, EOT or comp M4. and gripod.
In 2019 Portugal began the replacement of the G3 with the SCAR-L and H. The troops deployed in the CAR are already using the SCAR.
Make an SKS or a mini 14 into a AR alternative now... lolz that's a battlefield pickup, run it how it is until you can level up on another gun.
Yeah always bugs me when people fuck with em. They’re “trash” just leave em alone and invest your money in a better rifle. Enjoy them for what they are
@@talltale9760 yeah and it bugs me when dumb broke fudds tell other people what to do with their money. You probably have a psa with a sightmark and think it's a "good" gun.
@@rodiculous9464 I never said it was trash... And I do have some fudd ass guns, no PSA tho.
I’m always picking up my SKS on the way out the door and leaving all the bougie shit behind because sometimes I just want a rile that works .
@@NCrdwlf what the hell did you do to your other rifles that causes them to no longer “just work”
Bro, this is hands down, one of the top three gun vids on UA-cam in 20 years. Fantastic fucking writing, great wit, hella good research and knowledge bombs. The quality of and time put into this vid should make the top personalities in the industry scared or jealous. Or both. Mad chops, dude!
In May 2019, my PSA PA10 Gen 2 18" MOE Rifle Kit and receiver cost me $580 /w free shipping..., but though not "modern", I still think I like my FAL better.
I really don't know why, but I simp for FALs
@@chickenfishhybrid44 All the controls are in the right places, unlike the AR-15 and AR-10 and it's a real battle rifle, unlike the AR-15... Where it's lacking is in modern mounts...
As someone who owns a PTR91, an HK91, and who owned a C308, I l absolutely loved this video Hop. THANKS!!!
Thanks for doing what I don’t have to now. Cheers.
Thank you very much for this video Hop, as a HK91 owner (a long time ago), I appreciate your take on the good and bad of this type of gun. Thanks Again...
We need to see the same thing with a civilian HK33. I want to see one of those modernized to see how it stacks up against a stock ar15
If PTR made an hk33 I'd sell my left nut to get it
It loses. End of story
@@jacobt1027 yeah but the AR-15 doesn't look nearly as good
@@jasonarmstrong5750 Looks, obviously the most important part in a life saving piece of equipment
@@jacobt1027 hey, if you're gonna do something you might as well do it in style
a few tips on the G3 / PTR91
1) if it kicks to hard take a look at the ruber buffer in the stock ,and mak sure its dry , to much oil in the gun may reduce its effect
2) if prone or laying on the ground ,you may find it usefull ,to hook your sling not into the front ring ,but into the charging handle ,and charge the gun by pulling the sling back
3)in full auto the gun is almost uncontrolable ,stay at singleshot if you can ,accept the enemy is verry close
i can only speak for my original G3 that was actually 10 years older than myself ,back in my basic training in the Bundeswehr
Looks like some 40+ year old ak4's during my conscription, when 70% would malfunction bad even with live ammo.
Mine however ran like a champ, week long ex wity blanks and it just ran.
@ hoone I've always wondered about stuff like that. The Swedish AK4s must be very old by now...if they haven't been manufactured in Sweden for many years, what do they do for spare parts if something wears out or breaks? If a barrel gets worn out completely, what can the Home Guard units do about it? I know AK4/G3 barrels will last a long time, but eventually they must wear out at some point.
Swedish government doesn't really care about defense so they probably shoot all those guns until no spare parts are around. Some of those older AK4's were supplied to Baltic countries after the USSR collapsed also. Besides there is no problems with them guns being old if there are spare parts around and troopers are told to clean their rifles. I myself had Valmet RK62 made in 1987 when I served some years ago and it had no issues.
@@dexm2010 I don't know about Sweden but we had no shortage of spare parts, although it was usually one worn part replaced by a less worn one.
@@hoone1236 I guess it makes sense as long as there are good enough parts to replace worn ones. Did you serve in the Latvian, Lithuanian or Estonian military?
Sounds like poor weapon maintenance from other conscripts, but I'm sure if the armorers don't try the weapons might not be as reliable.
Yeah I had to pump about a good 1k to 1.5k rounds though the rifle to make it super reliable. I also added a new 3 side rail handguard, and removed the stock handguard. Makes attaching anything much easier. I also used high rings to attach a bigger scope to make 400-600 yds a better scope of work.
What rail system did you get? I can only find ones that are damn near the cost of the gun
Thanks Hop, I’ll save for an AR10.
I got the 16" DB10 for $750.. and my only regret is that I didnt' buy 3 of them, because now they are closer to $1100..
My friend just built one and it kinda bummed me out, not the gun at all but knowing I have less of a reason to want a classic battle rifle hahaha
@@calholli I was able to build out a custom 16" Aero m5 for about 800 3 months ago. Just took a bit waiting on deals and in stock alerts.
@@brahtrumpwonbigly7309 What sites did you use? I usually just watch deals on ( gun. deals )...
@@nonyabidness6492 enjoy having more money than sense. A fool and his money..?
Good work. I’ve owned the 16” 91 and a Century. Another problem you didn’t mention: the barrel shifts against the front triple ring thingy when you hang heavy stuff off it and make it hot, so even with the locking piece conversion, suppressing these things is difficult. I found muzzle devices over about 8 oz did this.
The locking piece swap does reduce perceived recoil - I don’t know how cold it would have to be before reliability would be effected.
I still love them. They are both fairly precise, even with steel case ammo. I’ve found Federal’s heavy game king loading to do very well out of the PTR.I have no use for 3 MoA battle rifles - the ability to put that .308 energy on target past a quarter mile using modern optics is the most important reason to have one of these things for me.
what the fuck are you talking about???
Such an underrated channel. loved it. Your voice. My thoughts. Cool gun just not efficient for today's battlefields needs.
I really don't like the G3 either. But I built a CETME from a dirt cheap parts kit and it actually works. I screwed it my barrel setting in the trunnion and had to run the biggest rollers available but it ran great from the first shot and it is really accurate.
Quality content. Appreciate you posting.
I had the same return to battery issues, until i disassembled EVERYTHING in the action group and liberally applied PTFE grease instead of oil. That improved reliability from 40% to about 99%. To be fair I have less than a hundred rounds through mine though.
Anyone that would call this rifle heavy has never packed an M249 or a BAR.
No shit
You know, you sound great, have sage commentary, and present a firearm for what it is in reality. Super job, Keep it up!
3:58 coolest looking reload on a rifle
As a left handed shooter with riffles; this is likely the best in terms of ergonomics & brass clearance (imo).
One-handed reloading is repeatable & relatively easy using AK style (reaching over the top to rack/slap charging handle). With the brass always flying up & over to the right; little chance of charring your wrist. Shooting lefty also makes it easy to have a hand on the accessories.
Gotta figure out the sling yourself to suit personal preference. The stock actually sits well for me with my paracord setup that also solves the sling issue.
Thanks for the info on the other accessory recommendations & keep up the good work. 👍
what was the ar10 you were looking for? good video, keep it up! :)
Im curious about that too.
SIG Tread 716i, I have one on the way now.
@@Hoplopfheil I hope it’s better than the Gen1 716 Piston I have. That thing has been garbage for me. (I think I finally have it sorted out now, after serious Dremel sanding work on the bolt and other internals, and a case of steel ammo for good measure.)
Ooof...
the weight.. i agree.. serving with it wasn't too easy, but you eventually get used to it.
Becomes very beneficial in cqb, when you're out of ammo though.
However the swedish made AK4(just bog standard G3 built under license for Swedish military) was extremely reliable during my time with it.
Only true malfunctions were caused by faulty compensators (with blanks) or me not hitting/seating the magazine into place.
Also, this rifle really hates being over-lubricated in arctic conditions.
Did it feel modern or comfortable to shoot: No
But it did hit exactly where you aimed it. The stock drumsight was amazing in that regard.
But a G3 has waaaayyy more drip than an AR10
The only gun with worse ergos than an AK and a lot harder to disassemble. At least a well made one (not PTR) is as reliable. I have sent many PTR guns back for customers with warranty issues and seen many fail over the last 10 years. Its a shame American manufactures can take proven systems like the FAL and G3 and completely botch them.
Great way to address the stock issue. Well done.
The whole video is basically: why tf did i do this to myself 😂
If nothing else, it's a learning experience. An expensive one, but a learning experience nevertheless.