@@ni.ko3869 Is he a crazy idiot if it sells, though? I think a lot of people don't really appreciate how exposure-based shopping works. Some people see an article about how great CRTs work for new games, they google what is the best crt monitor, and then they go on ebay and buy that monitor. Price, largely, not an object.
@@ni.ko3869 Okay. Several dozen FW-900s sold on ebay and amazon for more than $2000 USD in 2016. £1400 seems perfectly reasonable for them in 2019, but you seem to be the expert.
Great stuff, this channel has evolved very nicely; I always thought that just doing fps comparison videos wouldn't be sustainable (or it would, but the growth would be limited) however it's a testament to the work from Richard and the excellent team that you have created that has if anything, made more people interested into the technical know-how behind a game (For better or worse!)
Remember when I came to Australia and everyone was asking me how am I doing but then walking away not caring. Still don’t like it to this day as it diminishes when you truly ask and want to know how someone is
Its a bit different here in germany. When we ask someone how he’s doing we actually mean it. John lives germany so i guess he also got used to interpreted it that way.
There are already some videos on CRTs for people who can't wait ;) Also I think all this talk has killed any possibility of my multi-year dream of acquiring a FW900 in good shape :'(
Eh, they gloss over the severe downsides and impracticality of CRTs vs modern displays for their argument. Furthermore they're comparing some of the best CRTs ever made and comparing them to the enormous ocean of LCDs available today that vary wildly in quality. And people keep forgetting that the average CRT in a home or office was not FW900 level at all, it was often worse than the average LCD monitor or monitor is today. CRTs are inherently dim as fuck, and combined with their glass screens they were a nightmare to use in rooms with any kind of ambient light. Even with the matte anti-reflection coatings and flat screens some of the very last one had it was still an irritating bugbear. Another issue that keeps being conveniently overlooked is the eyestrain CRTs cause, moreso than even PWM-style backlit LCD displays. They were murder on your eyes, and some people (like many of my family and friends) could actually hear the high pitched whine of one in operation. And if you really want to get unfair, they've long been surpassed in refresh rate, , color gamut, clarity, geometric accuracy legibility, and so on to the point that even professionals handling sensitive big budget projects produce their work on LCD panels. Some people have forgotten, perhaps too eagerly, what CRTs actually were.
It's why I don't want to give up my 1080p Panasonic plasma, high refresh rates, true blacks and good colour. It still looks beautiful and doesn't appear to be washed out and the burn-in was a non-issue.
@@RicochetForce Worse in what way exactly? Because the pixel response time, black levels and non native resolutions were superior in all CRTs no matter the quality, whereas LCD quality was and is all over the place.
DF, you could also take a look at the "Short-Lived Demo" of the Medievil remake that is on the PS4 Store - I believe it expires next Sunday. A side-by-side with the original might be fun!
My experience buying a NEW IN BOX CRT a few days ago: I bought a new in box COMPAQ CRT on ebay for 199. 1280x1024 at 60 and 75hz. Luckily, it was indeed new in box and image itself is great. I've always wanted a CRT for my computer and retro games, and have even had dreams of finding new CRTs in stores and buying them. Anyway, there are definite pros and cons to buying a new CRT that isn't an absolutely cutting edge gaming one. Let's talk about it. Size and noise - I was concerned that it would be very large and very loud, even being a 17'' monitor. Luckily I was wrong, and it's not very big or heavy at all. I had to pull my desk out about a foot to give the ass of the monitor more clearance, but it's lightweight and is not loud to use. Picture quality - I do feel that the DF's take is slightly overblown when it comes to them saying even super low resolutions look great on these things. It's absolutely true that even a resolution like 1024x768 can look good on a CRT, but it's highly dependent on the game. Jaggies are far less prevalent on a CRT, but the image does look blurrier the lower the resolution. The detail on textures in the distance gets blurrier on low resolutions, and it does affect picture quality. I play games at 1280x1024, and always max out anti-aliasing as much as I can. The blurriness I mentioned is still present, but a game a 1280x1024 with 8x MSAA or a good TAA does look about on par with 4k as far as the absence of jaggies. The blurriness compared to 4k is still noticeable though. Overall, I was impressed with how well things look and run, and I'm still using the monitor right now. It's worth noting that staring at this white youtube screen is hurting my eyes after a few minutes. The first game I fired up was Quake 2 RTX, and I was indeed able to max out all raytracing on my 2080ti and play at 1280x1024 with 120% resolution scaling and it runs at a perfect 60. It looks fantastic and feels far smoother than it did on my 144hz monitor. This game is a joy on this monitor, and I also look forward to trying other RTX games like Control. Really, a monitor like this only makes sense if you play games that you aren't able to max out smoothly at high resolutions. It's worth noting that fighting games are mostly a no-go on a standard CRT as they are in a forced widescreen mode that letterboxes the crap out of everything. MK11 does look great but its so squished that it isnt worth it. Looking forward to seeing how emulated arcade games look though. As stated by DF, a monitor like this does take a lot of tweaking. Not every game playing at a resolution like this fits the screen perfectly, and the screen position may need to be adjusted or stretched to fill the screen. As stated, some games look either great or not so great when played on a CRT at a resolution like 1280x1024. ReShade will probably go a long way in making blurry games sharper at low rez, and forcing extra AA. In conclusion for now, was buying a new CRT for 199 worth it? It's a hard MAYBE. For RTX games, it's probably worth it if you have the cash to throw around and are big on obscure experimenting. It is a thrill to play futuristic games on an ancient monitor, and it's also great to have an ancient monitor in new condition. I wouldnt even attempt to buy a used CRT because most CRTs have significant burn-in by now. Shadow damage and color bleeding all over the place. Because of this I opted for a new one, and even a brand new one does have slight color bleeding when MSI afterburner's large orange text contrasts with the game you're playing. Overall, the value of this monitor will be better determined once I try more super-demanding games and see how well they run. I'm mostly happy with my purchase, and quake 2 rtx is awesome maxed out.
not all CRTs are made equal.. its worth pointing out you're comparing a 1280x1024@75Hz CRT to John's 'late' era Sony (possibly the best crt manufacturer) and Rich's 'holy grail' monitor.. You won't get the same performance/results.
I think Zelda LA is due to its constant streaming data, you see that there is no loading screens so the discharge and reload of data is being done real time. Also, heavy particle scenarios looks to drop frames. Maybe if they do some work on the culling and downplay the particles a bit we can get a better result.
given the bottleneck around the swamp, I'm convinced the issue is reflection/light-based in nature. When getting the shield, it looks like it's PRELOADING the light effect that shines off the shield when you collect it and it's set to do it at a point in the conversation before it happens.
The performance loss whenever an item is shown in Link's Awakening might be due to fullscreen alpha effects which can be very taxing on the Switches GPU (on most GPUs really but carelessly used in a deferred rendering setup they can be devastating)
The GPU drop in scene transitions in Zelda LA is probably live shader compilation, especially the light refraction and reflection data per screen/area. When the shaders are done compiling and in memory, it frees up more bandwidth for actual on screen graphics calculation.
I saw that Surge 2 video post and thought, "Oh yeah, John's doing a 40 min deep-dive!" But then I started the video and couldn't hear it. The audio is so low and my AC unit is so loud. Thanks for reminding me about it, though. I'm gonna go back and watch it with my headphones.
The Surge 2 video was super interesting, I quite enjoyed it and made me get the game which I don't regret at all, the mechanics are solid. I can't stop playing it.
Whenever you do that CRT video, I'd actually be interested to hear any comparisons you might have between CRTs and OLEDs, including when it comes to burn-in risk, which definitely seems like it would be one concern when buying a CRT just as it is when buying an OLED.
Speaking of CRTs, you guys should use your industry connections and get your hands on one of those FED or SED display prototypes to review them for gaming.
Rich - *I've been watching this channel for a long time, and have always loved the content you guys have put out. I've never, ever once deemed you guys unprofessional, biased or remotely 'immature' or classless. I think the worst I ever mentioned was your seeming disdain for interactions with Tom, but that has seemed to pass as well. However, knowing about your Son - I just want to personally say (if you get this comment) how sorry I am. I've lost friends, I've lost family (one of whome's name was 'Richard', believe it or not) - and the pain is downright mind bending and fucking awful. You're a trooper for maintaining light and keeping your head up. I personally talk to the father of my friend who passed away in a car accident just 10 years ago now, and I still feel completely fucked that it happened. The way I found out was being woken up by a phone call by another friend of mine. Again, 10 years later his father is hanging in there (I grew up with his family and vice versa since his son and I were 5 years old...) - and I almost give him a close family member to talk to type of deal to say whatever he needs to, but it's rough for him, and I can tell he's not the same.* *Again, you're tough as nails Rich. Just know he's still with you and I'm sure there's positive aspects to this world that wouldn't otherwise be here if it weren't for him, knowing the quality person you seem to be and company you run for the greater good of knowledge and positive learning.*
I’m bracing myself for the inevitable deluge of Call of Duty release analysis videos (probably one with a CRT), but I’m hoping that amidst that, they’ll do some other fun analysis - My DF wishlist - -Overwatch Switch comparison -Ni No Kuni remastered & Switch comparison -Shenmue 3 demo analysis -Ori and the Blind Forest Switch comparison I would also love if you guys did a fun comparison of iOS and android versions of Dead Cells (with controller support) vs. all the other platforms
Link's Awakening: the performance issues are caused by the text overlay displaying the area name, you can clearly see how performance suffers when this text fades in, then goes back to normal when it fades out. Possibly because of the transparencies and shadow effects used in that text?
Can we please have a lengthy video with Richard and John playing games on a CRT? Or even like a livestream? I'm from the era of CRT TVs, I was younger and in my teens when they were still the main TV out there. So this is absolutely fascinating to me having newer games in 1080P up to 4K playing on a CRT.
seems as tho links Awakening has a view dependent subdivision algorithm which would explain when the camera zooms in, the poly counts grow. it seems like they might be pushing it a bit too far. also explains the displacement on the water and the subdivision needed across the entire screen. the nice round edged in the game look fantastic though.
Thanks for your work and especially for your opinion on CRT. Right now I'm using Panasonic '09 PDP as a reasonable compromise. Suits me well both for games and other content.
I shelved Link's Awakening because I just can't handle the framedrops, I'm one of those people. I also noticed that when you open the map there's like some weird boundry going on, with the cursor near the edges you get 60fps (even when just starting with an empty map) and as soon as you move it more towards the middle it locks to 30fps...this game has some weird stuff going on.
for Links Awakening: Watch german youtubers "Sam zockt" analysis. He found out that the game stutters every time a towns name is shown on the screen. If Im right he said that it could be the internal storage.
When programming on GPUs, often the transfer into video memory is the hardest part. Maybe the handheld profile using smaller resolution textures plus you bumping up the GPU is enough get a noticeable speedup. I don't think it's going to be SSD / NAND bound, since this is also a problem going from the computer's RAM to video RAM. It's a classic thing in neural nets and other GPU accelerated programming; often, researchers (and digital animators using renderers) use those workstation-grade GPUs because of the amount of video memory, so they can just hold everything in memory and operate on it .
Hey guys, thank you for doing these regularly! :) Something that bothered me was the "Retro TV Beep" you used for transitioning between some parts of the video. It'd be very appreciated if you didn't do it in the future, I always found it fairly annoying, even back when I watched TV. =P
At 13:15 it looks like ambient occlusion becomes more defined in the seconds after the fade-in. Is it possible that that's what causes some of the frame-rate dips? And is it possible the dynamic resolution doesn't kick in immediately when entering a new area?
Zelda LA is just another nice example why armchair developer are always big on words but have no clue at all. Nice to see the insight of more competent people.
Would be interesting to see something like that video for The Surge 2 on other games, such as Doom Eternal, The last of Us Part II, Cyberpunk 2077... Would be nice if you guys managed to do the same with hardware.
Does no one else see the flickering/shimmering shadows in Link’s Awakening? They’re particularly noticeable in the foreground and background, they’re obvious in the swamp area in this video.
*sigh* just bringing attention to the CRT community. Glad I have my 30 in storage but RIP all the die hard collectors who haven't been able to track down their grails yet.
I hear ya, but tbf it only fair that those who would be interested in getting a CRT hear the info, it's still going to remain a pretty niche hobby, that is CRT collecting, most people won't be bothered as they can't be arsed with the time and work it takes to get one and maintain it, or they just don't have the time.
I haven't measured resolutions on Link's Awakening, but my first thought with the weird performance characteristics was the adaptive resolution control not being aggressive enough to maintain its frame rate. Just a guess, though.
Great video on the FPS issues & I'm interested in the CRT benefits too. But I'm curious what game was being shown during the FW900 discussion? Great work, all!
I personally don’t thinks theirs a better way to experience Doom 2016 than on a Computer CRT... which can over clock, and scale til the pixels begin to “fly”. Seriously constant 80frames at 80HZ at1152x864. I absolutely love it. Of course my main Screen is a 1440P 75hz Gsync/Freesync monitor, but the moment a game has a nice 4:3 aspect ratio I switch to my CRT eView 17 PC monitor.
BullyMangler I can easily add Gyroscope with my SwitchPro controller, and I’m sure if I went to church they wouldnt mind me hauling my Desktop, CRT, and surround sound with me
My guess is that its the HUD and UI overdraw limiting the FPS. They probably have a big canvas over the whole screen when it should really just be the specific piece of text that should be rendered. I've played and finished the game and its extremely consistent that when you change area and you see the location change pop up, the FPS drops. And that its over when the text fades away. You can even see it in the video now, the fade and the FPS increase is frame-by-frame perfect. Same with the Mapscreen and how you cant have 60fps there, but if you remove icons, its perfect 60fps. Of course, its not only that, some areas like the water and lava scene with more complex shaders also introduce drops in FPS.
Its a shame they've almost always gone for a stable 60 but I think its part of the new online era of video games. I know they've previously said that they don't want to release bad games on launch cause they're always gonna be remembered that way but I feel like change in CEO may have impact on this the game is actually great according to reviews although the performance is poor but as long as they can fix it at a later point, hopefully sooner. Because the younger audience won't really care or remember the performance they can get away with this once in a while to make release date.
Uh, what? Not even Nintendo is perfect, they most certainly have had games with bugs and glitches, and yes even patches. Twilight Princess had a save glitch, Mario kart 8 had a 59FPS bug, it happens. Not to mention all the ones that aren't found until years later, like you see with most classic games. At least they can patch it, which is a good thing as long as they don't make too much of a habit out of it.
I’m eagerly awaiting a patch fix for Link’s Awakening. I have faith they can sort that out. I’m also very eager to hear what you find in Arkham Knight on Epic. My experience makes me feel there is some sort of data streaming issue when traversing Gotham. On an SSD no less.
A switch hacvker/developer, m4xw confirmed that part of the issue is the cryptographic header of Links Awakening is part of the reason why the system lags. If you played this one a gamecard the stuttering would be way worse.
I still have my CRT tv next to my bed, it's like a sanyo 25inch or whatever lol. When I ponied up for a budget 4k samsung I knew I had to keep it incase I bought a ps2 or something.
One thing I noticed when playing Link's Awakening is that while the overworld is no longer divided into squares like it was in the Game Boy original the cut bushes, defeated enemies, and whatnot still respawn off screen similar to how it worked when you moved to a different square in the Game Boy original. One thing that's likely causing the dips is this, the game reloading in assets off screen. Best guess is that they'll likely patch this in a week or two, or maybe add an option for either a 30 or 60 FPS toggle like in Fire Emblem Warriors.
If Nintendo makes a Switch Pro, I'm sure one aspect it will fix is making sure most/all of the games run at locked 60 fps. I definitely think that Link's Awakening (remake) should be able to run at 60 fps. I'm hoping we get Link to the Past (remake) and Link Between World (port) to the Switch. Anyway, I'm sure Nintendo will figure out a patch to improve these fps issues with Link's Awakening (remake).
I'm playing it now and it was never fixed sadly, it constantly fluctuates between 60 and 30fps and it feels quite horrible to play IMO. I really expect better from Nintendo.
For some reason I was under the impression that Link's Awakening was made in the Unreal Engine but I didn't see it mentioned in the credits or anywhere else. Is this an in-house made engine? When I thought it was made with Unreal I felt it explained the framerate issues but now I'm questioning that.
John, don't get disappointed. Your video was excellent,but the problem was surge 2 was not that great and looks a lot like the first one,not that it is wrong but people expect generational leap now a days and also the game was super niche .your effort was excellent,but may be the effort was put in a wrong place. Maybe if you do the same on a game with good visibility and popularity, may be like death stranding ,I would pay to see that. Anyways thank you df for all the videos and you guys inspire me a lot by how hard you work
This is backwards thinking. Hollywood, big budget games with the backing of a platform holder do not need Digital Foundry to give them more visibility. It's extremely important to shed light on the little guys getting absolutely drowned out by the marketing machines and meatbag PR clowns in comment sections online.
@@ambro2786 Seriously. People have forgotten that sequels traditionally don't look much different than the original, especially ones released not too long after. I saw similar ridiculous sentiments stated after Nioh 2's gameplay was shown off.
@@RicochetForce cant please anyone these days. I personally thought that video on the Surge 2 was one of the coolest videos theyve put out. Love hearing directly from devs!
My only guess on this slow down is that this started life as a 3DS game and perhaps something has gummed up in that translation - perhaps they don't have the process as optimized as the WiiU --> Switch ports
oh shoot i missed that dedication and had no idea what happened, i'm so sorry for you loss rich :(
What happened? :(
?
As far as I understand, Ozzy was riches son but he died in a climbing (?) accident three years ago
Same here. RIP. All the best to Richard and his wife.
@@aL3891_ Damn, that's tragic. I wish all the strenght in the world for Richard and his family.
i think your enthousiasm for crt's has led to a direct soar in prices, john
fw900's usually go for like 200-600 pounds, and now some crazy idiot is selling it for 1400
Yeah no thank you chief
@@ni.ko3869 Is he a crazy idiot if it sells, though? I think a lot of people don't really appreciate how exposure-based shopping works. Some people see an article about how great CRTs work for new games, they google what is the best crt monitor, and then they go on ebay and buy that monitor. Price, largely, not an object.
@@Armataan they're not going to sell it at 1400 pounds, not even at a thousand, not even eight-hundred
@@ni.ko3869 Okay. Several dozen FW-900s sold on ebay and amazon for more than $2000 USD in 2016. £1400 seems perfectly reasonable for them in 2019, but you seem to be the expert.
Great stuff, this channel has evolved very nicely; I always thought that just doing fps comparison videos wouldn't be sustainable (or it would, but the growth would be limited) however it's a testament to the work from Richard and the excellent team that you have created that has if anything, made more people interested into the technical know-how behind a game (For better or worse!)
Digital Foundry's top 10 CRTs for the next generation of gaming.
lol
That would make a great April fools joke video!
lol
So sorry for your loss Rich. Didnt know you had suffered such a loss. He looked like a wonderful kid.
Richard im so sorry for your loss hope you will never know sadness anymore
Without sadness, how can he know happiness?
Skip to 6:15 for Zelda content
Also, wasn’t Goponga the name of the girl on Boy Meets World?
Balaam _ Lol. Her name was Topanga. Still sounds like a Boss though :p
You’re thinking of Ganon.
0:26 DF regularly reminds me, why no one should actually answer to english greeting phrases.
8/10 on the awkward-laughter-scale...
Lol I thought it was very awkward but funny at the same time so I give a pass for DF
Remember when I came to Australia and everyone was asking me how am I doing but then walking away not caring. Still don’t like it to this day as it diminishes when you truly ask and want to know how someone is
Juraj Benak You’re overly sensitive aren’t you?
@@juraj_b I live in Australia to be honest you get used to it after a while if you live here. But I get it. "Hey how are you?" = " Hello!". That's it.
Its a bit different here in germany. When we ask someone how he’s doing we actually mean it. John lives germany so i guess he also got used to interpreted it that way.
2 years later and they never had an update that addresses performance at all
There are already some videos on CRTs for people who can't wait ;)
Also I think all this talk has killed any possibility of my multi-year dream of acquiring a FW900 in good shape :'(
Well, it's been over 2 years, I'm guessing you never found one huh?
I'm loving this CRT focus lately.
20 years after crts and not even oled screens can keep up. Thans for DF for showing us
Eh, they gloss over the severe downsides and impracticality of CRTs vs modern displays for their argument. Furthermore they're comparing some of the best CRTs ever made and comparing them to the enormous ocean of LCDs available today that vary wildly in quality. And people keep forgetting that the average CRT in a home or office was not FW900 level at all, it was often worse than the average LCD monitor or monitor is today. CRTs are inherently dim as fuck, and combined with their glass screens they were a nightmare to use in rooms with any kind of ambient light. Even with the matte anti-reflection coatings and flat screens some of the very last one had it was still an irritating bugbear.
Another issue that keeps being conveniently overlooked is the eyestrain CRTs cause, moreso than even PWM-style backlit LCD displays. They were murder on your eyes, and some people (like many of my family and friends) could actually hear the high pitched whine of one in operation. And if you really want to get unfair, they've long been surpassed in refresh rate, , color gamut, clarity, geometric accuracy legibility, and so on to the point that even professionals handling sensitive big budget projects produce their work on LCD panels.
Some people have forgotten, perhaps too eagerly, what CRTs actually were.
It's why I don't want to give up my 1080p Panasonic plasma, high refresh rates, true blacks and good colour. It still looks beautiful and doesn't appear to be washed out and the burn-in was a non-issue.
@@RicochetForce Worse in what way exactly? Because the pixel response time, black levels and non native resolutions were superior in all CRTs no matter the quality, whereas LCD quality was and is all over the place.
@@guillermo9171 remember, DF use CRT because Ray-tracing works best at low-resolution and CRT is best at displaying low-resolution.
Really sorry for your loss.
Thanks for the great content.
I expect to see "+ CRTs" in a lot of titles going forward.
Digital Foundry is EDGE Magazine for the UA-cam era, with similar in-depth and intelligent content. I love it.
we need to have CRTs back!
Gotta save the planet first lol.
So buy a crt then..
@@oasisbeyond Nah.
DF, you could also take a look at the "Short-Lived Demo" of the Medievil remake that is on the PS4 Store - I believe it expires next Sunday. A side-by-side with the original might be fun!
It expires? I better play it a few more times this week then :/
Part nah we need Deamon X Machina
My experience buying a NEW IN BOX CRT a few days ago:
I bought a new in box COMPAQ CRT on ebay for 199. 1280x1024 at 60 and 75hz. Luckily, it was indeed new in box and image itself is great. I've always wanted a CRT for my computer and retro games, and have even had dreams of finding new CRTs in stores and buying them. Anyway, there are definite pros and cons to buying a new CRT that isn't an absolutely cutting edge gaming one. Let's talk about it.
Size and noise - I was concerned that it would be very large and very loud, even being a 17'' monitor. Luckily I was wrong, and it's not very big or heavy at all. I had to pull my desk out about a foot to give the ass of the monitor more clearance, but it's lightweight and is not loud to use.
Picture quality - I do feel that the DF's take is slightly overblown when it comes to them saying even super low resolutions look great on these things. It's absolutely true that even a resolution like 1024x768 can look good on a CRT, but it's highly dependent on the game. Jaggies are far less prevalent on a CRT, but the image does look blurrier the lower the resolution. The detail on textures in the distance gets blurrier on low resolutions, and it does affect picture quality. I play games at 1280x1024, and always max out anti-aliasing as much as I can. The blurriness I mentioned is still present, but a game a 1280x1024 with 8x MSAA or a good TAA does look about on par with 4k as far as the absence of jaggies. The blurriness compared to 4k is still noticeable though. Overall, I was impressed with how well things look and run, and I'm still using the monitor right now. It's worth noting that staring at this white youtube screen is hurting my eyes after a few minutes.
The first game I fired up was Quake 2 RTX, and I was indeed able to max out all raytracing on my 2080ti and play at 1280x1024 with 120% resolution scaling and it runs at a perfect 60. It looks fantastic and feels far smoother than it did on my 144hz monitor. This game is a joy on this monitor, and I also look forward to trying other RTX games like Control. Really, a monitor like this only makes sense if you play games that you aren't able to max out smoothly at high resolutions.
It's worth noting that fighting games are mostly a no-go on a standard CRT as they are in a forced widescreen mode that letterboxes the crap out of everything. MK11 does look great but its so squished that it isnt worth it. Looking forward to seeing how emulated arcade games look though.
As stated by DF, a monitor like this does take a lot of tweaking. Not every game playing at a resolution like this fits the screen perfectly, and the screen position may need to be adjusted or stretched to fill the screen. As stated, some games look either great or not so great when played on a CRT at a resolution like 1280x1024. ReShade will probably go a long way in making blurry games sharper at low rez, and forcing extra AA.
In conclusion for now, was buying a new CRT for 199 worth it? It's a hard MAYBE. For RTX games, it's probably worth it if you have the cash to throw around and are big on obscure experimenting. It is a thrill to play futuristic games on an ancient monitor, and it's also great to have an ancient monitor in new condition. I wouldnt even attempt to buy a used CRT because most CRTs have significant burn-in by now. Shadow damage and color bleeding all over the place. Because of this I opted for a new one, and even a brand new one does have slight color bleeding when MSI afterburner's large orange text contrasts with the game you're playing. Overall, the value of this monitor will be better determined once I try more super-demanding games and see how well they run. I'm mostly happy with my purchase, and quake 2 rtx is awesome maxed out.
not all CRTs are made equal.. its worth pointing out you're comparing a 1280x1024@75Hz CRT to John's 'late' era Sony (possibly the best crt manufacturer) and Rich's 'holy grail' monitor.. You won't get the same performance/results.
0:28 Simulation of profound joy
And it would be awesome to have Alex do a video just dedicated to Denuvo and its history
Its my pleasure to support such a talented group of dedicated individuals.
It's impossible not to like what these guys do
I think Zelda LA is due to its constant streaming data, you see that there is no loading screens so the discharge and reload of data is being done real time. Also, heavy particle scenarios looks to drop frames. Maybe if they do some work on the culling and downplay the particles a bit we can get a better result.
similar to Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night on the Switch, perhaps?
6:15 to skip The Surge stuff.
Background music:
Bjørn Lynne - New Tech Haven
given the bottleneck around the swamp, I'm convinced the issue is reflection/light-based in nature. When getting the shield, it looks like it's PRELOADING the light effect that shines off the shield when you collect it and it's set to do it at a point in the conversation before it happens.
The performance loss whenever an item is shown in Link's Awakening might be due to fullscreen alpha effects which can be very taxing on the Switches GPU (on most GPUs really but carelessly used in a deferred rendering setup they can be devastating)
Ive always admired digital foundrys honest and critical content. I hope it stays that way
My favourite UA-cam channel!!!
When will Nintendo release a CRT Switch?
It’s really eye-opening to see The Surge 2 special has fewer views than this DF Direct. It’s a real shame that so many people will miss out on it.
The GPU drop in scene transitions in Zelda LA is probably live shader compilation, especially the light refraction and reflection data per screen/area. When the shaders are done compiling and in memory, it frees up more bandwidth for actual on screen graphics calculation.
YEESSSSSSSS. CRT technology deep dive incoming
I have a Toshiba 27 inch Theaterview 27DF46 its a 2006 model CRT and its still visually looks great for DVD and retro gaming...
Love your content! Can’t believe that’s it’s been 3 years.
I saw that Surge 2 video post and thought, "Oh yeah, John's doing a 40 min deep-dive!"
But then I started the video and couldn't hear it. The audio is so low and my AC unit is so loud. Thanks for reminding me about it, though. I'm gonna go back and watch it with my headphones.
Rich should just make a series about Link's Awakening performance, his fascination with the issue is fascinating!
Do a guide on how to set up a crt and how to connect a modern PC with the best image quality possible
They basically said that's what is in the works for next week's video.
Ugh, the prices are gonna skyrocket, as if they're already not crazy expensive. Can someone make new crt's please?
The Surge 2 video was super interesting, I quite enjoyed it and made me get the game which I don't regret at all, the mechanics are solid. I can't stop playing it.
Whenever you do that CRT video, I'd actually be interested to hear any comparisons you might have between CRTs and OLEDs, including when it comes to burn-in risk, which definitely seems like it would be one concern when buying a CRT just as it is when buying an OLED.
This was like a Scooby-doo episode. The Missing FPS (AKA frame dips)
Exciting watch, for a really awesome game!
Link's Awakening graphics design looks like the old Little Big Adventure 2
Speaking of CRTs, you guys should use your industry connections and get your hands on one of those FED or SED display prototypes to review them for gaming.
Rich -
*I've been watching this channel for a long time, and have always loved the content you guys have put out. I've never, ever once deemed you guys unprofessional, biased or remotely 'immature' or classless. I think the worst I ever mentioned was your seeming disdain for interactions with Tom, but that has seemed to pass as well. However, knowing about your Son - I just want to personally say (if you get this comment) how sorry I am. I've lost friends, I've lost family (one of whome's name was 'Richard', believe it or not) - and the pain is downright mind bending and fucking awful. You're a trooper for maintaining light and keeping your head up. I personally talk to the father of my friend who passed away in a car accident just 10 years ago now, and I still feel completely fucked that it happened. The way I found out was being woken up by a phone call by another friend of mine. Again, 10 years later his father is hanging in there (I grew up with his family and vice versa since his son and I were 5 years old...) - and I almost give him a close family member to talk to type of deal to say whatever he needs to, but it's rough for him, and I can tell he's not the same.*
*Again, you're tough as nails Rich. Just know he's still with you and I'm sure there's positive aspects to this world that wouldn't otherwise be here if it weren't for him, knowing the quality person you seem to be and company you run for the greater good of knowledge and positive learning.*
10:58 Nvidia now wants us to upgrade the GPU in our Switches.
I’m bracing myself for the inevitable deluge of Call of Duty release analysis videos (probably one with a CRT), but I’m hoping that amidst that, they’ll do some other fun analysis -
My DF wishlist -
-Overwatch Switch comparison
-Ni No Kuni remastered & Switch comparison
-Shenmue 3 demo analysis
-Ori and the Blind Forest Switch comparison
I would also love if you guys did a fun comparison of iOS and android versions of Dead Cells (with controller support) vs. all the other platforms
John already said he'll be doing a Shenmue III demo video
Sponsor all you want, just be upfront about it and never let it bleed into your objective view we all appreciate
Link's Awakening: the performance issues are caused by the text overlay displaying the area name, you can clearly see how performance suffers when this text fades in, then goes back to normal when it fades out. Possibly because of the transparencies and shadow effects used in that text?
Can we please have a lengthy video with Richard and John playing games on a CRT? Or even like a livestream? I'm from the era of CRT TVs, I was younger and in my teens when they were still the main TV out there. So this is absolutely fascinating to me having newer games in 1080P up to 4K playing on a CRT.
Keep up the good work, i really enjoy this kind of unique videos!
seems as tho links Awakening has a view dependent subdivision algorithm which would explain when the camera zooms in, the poly counts grow. it seems like they might be pushing it a bit too far. also explains the displacement on the water and the subdivision needed across the entire screen. the nice round edged in the game look fantastic though.
Thanks for your work and especially for your opinion on CRT. Right now I'm using Panasonic '09 PDP as a reasonable compromise. Suits me well both for games and other content.
Those CRT shots remind me of my early contacts with a PC in general... good old times! Guess you guys have kinda rehyped the CRT-retrowave :D
I am thrilled you overclocked Link's Awakening with positive results.
I shelved Link's Awakening because I just can't handle the framedrops, I'm one of those people.
I also noticed that when you open the map there's like some weird boundry going on, with the cursor near the edges you get 60fps (even when just starting with an empty map) and as soon as you move it more towards the middle it locks to 30fps...this game has some weird stuff going on.
An update on the performance patch of Control on the Xbox One machines would be quite useful and welcome....
I’ve followed for years and the end caught me by surprise! Now I feel like a shitty human. A very late sorry for your loss.
It's funny how many UA-camr's have the Radeon 7 on display in the background collecting dust.
for Links Awakening:
Watch german youtubers "Sam zockt" analysis. He found out that the game stutters every time a towns name is shown on the screen. If Im right he said that it could be the internal storage.
11:50 er. romfs is a section in various 3ds and Switch formats used for asset storage.
When programming on GPUs, often the transfer into video memory is the hardest part. Maybe the handheld profile using smaller resolution textures plus you bumping up the GPU is enough get a noticeable speedup. I don't think it's going to be SSD / NAND bound, since this is also a problem going from the computer's RAM to video RAM. It's a classic thing in neural nets and other GPU accelerated programming; often, researchers (and digital animators using renderers) use those workstation-grade GPUs because of the amount of video memory, so they can just hold everything in memory and operate on it .
More Rich. I listen to you all day. Gg2ez
You guys are amazing! Made my boring sunday somwthing nicd always. Keep it ! 😊
I clicked for CRTs
Hey guys, thank you for doing these regularly! :)
Something that bothered me was the "Retro TV Beep" you used for transitioning between some parts of the video.
It'd be very appreciated if you didn't do it in the future, I always found it fairly annoying, even back when I watched TV. =P
At 13:15 it looks like ambient occlusion becomes more defined in the seconds after the fade-in. Is it possible that that's what causes some of the frame-rate dips? And is it possible the dynamic resolution doesn't kick in immediately when entering a new area?
I'd love for you guys to look into the new Medevil demo! I think it's great but the camera and contrast could use some work.
Zelda LA is just another nice example why armchair developer are always big on words but have no clue at all. Nice to see the insight of more competent people.
Would be interesting to see something like that video for The Surge 2 on other games, such as Doom Eternal, The last of Us Part II, Cyberpunk 2077...
Would be nice if you guys managed to do the same with hardware.
John makes great quality content.
Does no one else see the flickering/shimmering shadows in Link’s Awakening? They’re particularly noticeable in the foreground and background, they’re obvious in the swamp area in this video.
*sigh* just bringing attention to the CRT community. Glad I have my 30 in storage but RIP all the die hard collectors who haven't been able to track down their grails yet.
I hear ya, but tbf it only fair that those who would be interested in getting a CRT hear the info, it's still going to remain a pretty niche hobby, that is CRT collecting, most people won't be bothered as they can't be arsed with the time and work it takes to get one and maintain it, or they just don't have the time.
I haven't measured resolutions on Link's Awakening, but my first thought with the weird performance characteristics was the adaptive resolution control not being aggressive enough to maintain its frame rate. Just a guess, though.
Dear Rich, can't imagine the pain of losing a son, but know we will keep your family in our prayers. Love from Brazil.
His son died ?
Great video on the FPS issues & I'm interested in the CRT benefits too. But I'm curious what game was being shown during the FW900 discussion? Great work, all!
I love what you guys did with that Surge 2 video. I hope you do that with future titles some that I really like such as Last of Us.
I personally don’t thinks theirs a better way to experience Doom 2016 than on a Computer CRT... which can over clock, and scale til the pixels begin to “fly”. Seriously constant 80frames at 80HZ at1152x864. I absolutely love it. Of course my main Screen is a 1440P 75hz Gsync/Freesync monitor, but the moment a game has a nice 4:3 aspect ratio I switch to my CRT eView 17 PC monitor.
The prize went to Switch version of Doom with gyro scope precision and able to play Doom during church sermon. Looks magic in my hands.
BullyMangler I can easily add Gyroscope with my SwitchPro controller, and I’m sure if I went to church they wouldnt mind me hauling my Desktop, CRT, and surround sound with me
@@LoganE01 So credit to Nintendo for gyroscope add on and lololol
BullyMangler well I play pretty much EVERYTHING on pc with a 8BitDo Pro+ controller. And yeah I guess so.
@@LoganE01 Atleast you dont play with mouse and keyboard. Like a pc dork virgin.
My guess is that its the HUD and UI overdraw limiting the FPS. They probably have a big canvas over the whole screen when it should really just be the specific piece of text that should be rendered.
I've played and finished the game and its extremely consistent that when you change area and you see the location change pop up, the FPS drops. And that its over when the text fades away. You can even see it in the video now, the fade and the FPS increase is frame-by-frame perfect.
Same with the Mapscreen and how you cant have 60fps there, but if you remove icons, its perfect 60fps.
Of course, its not only that, some areas like the water and lava scene with more complex shaders also introduce drops in FPS.
It's a sad state in gaming when even Big N can't even optimize their games without patches. Good bye, good old days of pure quality.
Its a shame they've almost always gone for a stable 60 but I think its part of the new online era of video games. I know they've previously said that they don't want to release bad games on launch cause they're always gonna be remembered that way but I feel like change in CEO may have impact on this the game is actually great according to reviews although the performance is poor but as long as they can fix it at a later point, hopefully sooner. Because the younger audience won't really care or remember the performance they can get away with this once in a while to make release date.
Uh, what? Not even Nintendo is perfect, they most certainly have had games with bugs and glitches, and yes even patches.
Twilight Princess had a save glitch, Mario kart 8 had a 59FPS bug, it happens. Not to mention all the ones that aren't found until years later, like you see with most classic games.
At least they can patch it, which is a good thing as long as they don't make too much of a habit out of it.
CRTs is pretty great, I've known that for years
Looks like the scene transitions in Awakening are forcing a 30fps cap, like fatalities in MK11.
I’m eagerly awaiting a patch fix for Link’s Awakening. I have faith they can sort that out.
I’m also very eager to hear what you find in Arkham Knight on Epic. My experience makes me feel there is some sort of data streaming issue when traversing Gotham. On an SSD no less.
More of this kind of sponsored content would be very welcome :)
A switch hacvker/developer, m4xw confirmed that part of the issue is the cryptographic header of Links Awakening is part of the reason why the system lags. If you played this one a gamecard the stuttering would be way worse.
I still have my CRT tv next to my bed, it's like a sanyo 25inch or whatever lol. When I ponied up for a budget 4k samsung I knew I had to keep it incase I bought a ps2 or something.
My Lcd in my room still has scar port so there's no need of a crt to play ps2, only if you really want to.
framerate drops in link's awakening are when text appears in top left
The Text messages like "Mage Village" and similar go alongside with the FPS drops! 🤔
Maybe some Streaming issues?
I hope you guys take a look at MediEvil
One thing I noticed when playing Link's Awakening is that while the overworld is no longer divided into squares like it was in the Game Boy original the cut bushes, defeated enemies, and whatnot still respawn off screen similar to how it worked when you moved to a different square in the Game Boy original. One thing that's likely causing the dips is this, the game reloading in assets off screen. Best guess is that they'll likely patch this in a week or two, or maybe add an option for either a 30 or 60 FPS toggle like in Fire Emblem Warriors.
Was hoping for Link’s Awakening on a CRT 🦔
the Switch's power has been fully tapped and maxed out. We've hit hard limitations already.
thank you, boys
1:18 i have that same t-shirt
Any love for a Ni No Kuni Switch/PS4 (PS3 original?) face off?
Yeah this is something they should consider doing.
Why? Ps4 would win, it's 60... But, it's also an old game and was better when it came out year's ago on ps3.
If Nintendo makes a Switch Pro, I'm sure one aspect it will fix is making sure most/all of the games run at locked 60 fps.
I definitely think that Link's Awakening (remake) should be able to run at 60 fps.
I'm hoping we get Link to the Past (remake) and Link Between World (port) to the Switch.
Anyway, I'm sure Nintendo will figure out a patch to improve these fps issues with Link's Awakening (remake).
I'm playing it now and it was never fixed sadly, it constantly fluctuates between 60 and 30fps and it feels quite horrible to play IMO. I really expect better from Nintendo.
For some reason I was under the impression that Link's Awakening was made in the Unreal Engine but I didn't see it mentioned in the credits or anywhere else. Is this an in-house made engine? When I thought it was made with Unreal I felt it explained the framerate issues but now I'm questioning that.
9900K and 2080Ti running Arkham well (from Epic). Nothing but smooth so far, even with the nVidia additions.
I was hoping for a Link's Awakening patch within the first few days, but now I've completed it and it wouldn't matter.
Same lol
It´s live-loading the game ;)
You play while it´s loading (hidden load).
So instead of 15 seconds of Loading Screen we get this....
John, don't get disappointed. Your video was excellent,but the problem was surge 2 was not that great and looks a lot like the first one,not that it is wrong but people expect generational leap now a days and also the game was super niche .your effort was excellent,but may be the effort was put in a wrong place. Maybe if you do the same on a game with good visibility and popularity, may be like death stranding ,I would pay to see that. Anyways thank you df for all the videos and you guys inspire me a lot by how hard you work
This is backwards thinking. Hollywood, big budget games with the backing of a platform holder do not need Digital Foundry to give them more visibility. It's extremely important to shed light on the little guys getting absolutely drowned out by the marketing machines and meatbag PR clowns in comment sections online.
Expecting a generational leap within the same console generation when the games only released 2 years apart is a little ignorant
@@ambro2786 Seriously. People have forgotten that sequels traditionally don't look much different than the original, especially ones released not too long after. I saw similar ridiculous sentiments stated after Nioh 2's gameplay was shown off.
@@RicochetForce cant please anyone these days.
I personally thought that video on the Surge 2 was one of the coolest videos theyve put out. Love hearing directly from devs!
My only guess on this slow down is that this started life as a 3DS game and perhaps something has gummed up in that translation - perhaps they don't have the process as optimized as the WiiU --> Switch ports