Back in 2020 I was still riding my old faithful 2007 Specialized Stumpjumper hardtail then 4 years ago I decided to get with the program having watched your review and bought an S build 5010 and after a few weeks bought a set of Carbon Reserve wheels with DT Swiss hubs. My twice a week visits to BP Wales showed my that I should've bought a Bronson so I chopped my 5010 in and had a no expense spared CC framed XO Bronson Custom built by Howard at the old Pedal and Spoke who I'd bought the 5010 from. I loved it and pondered an EMTB for the days at home. I just didn't like the look of the Heckler and thought it too much of a CHUNKER. I liked the look of the Heckler SL but had my doubts, The Motor and the issues with keeping water out...Seeing these two reviews you have made on the Vala (and to be fair some others) has made me bite the proverbial and order an XO build Vala today - I love my I9 Hydra Hubs on my Bronson so much they're the only upgrade I'll make. Thanks Guy for another superb Review. I'll jump on the Patreon this evening as I absolutely think you deserve all the support. Thanks Guy. Best Regards, Sam. (Duplicated from my Comments on your Live ride)
I've been researching emtb for a few weeks now. Really don't want to spend upwards of $10k or more, but I also have had my last mountain bike since 2012. This might be a buy once cry once kind of situation. I like what I see and hear about the Vala, especially that is doesn't scream emtb when you look at it -- a bit more incognito at the trailhead is good for places where you might have trail Karens.
Well Cestline made it work with Vpp so not sure what they are smoking! Probably cause 4 bar is just a lot simpler and is very active to give good traction with E-mtbs
Just another thing to be wary about with a VPP. The Crestline can only take 220mm of insertion depth on the seat post, which means you can't slam even a 150mm dropper post into the frame. This unfortunately makes the bike unrideable for me and my stupid 30" inseam. Much prefer a good old 4-link that will allow a nice long dropper. My Orbea Wild can slam a 210mm dropper, no problem.
@@WildeSuchteleibecause the stand over height is gargantuan on your heckler compared to modern e-bikes. My heckler SL can run a 210 on the large frame but it’s an SL not a full power.
Great vid as usual , big fan. How much friction/drag is in the motor when you ride through the support limit of 25kph? Ride60 seems to have nil, EP8 is like riding through treacle
I hope they don’t move to the Bosch SX motor for lighter eMTBsz I was not a fan of the motor on the Whyte I tested. At first I thought it was good; natural feeling and powerful, but once things got steep I found the motor would just die if you didn’t keep the cadence very high. The Fazua was much better in this regard. If they could just get the reliability right, I much prefer it.
Orbea Wild has the new Bosch as well, they have experience with designing 4 bar bikes, and its cheaper with both battery options. Don't waste your money.
I have a 22 Bronson... the VPP is a massive part of the Santa Cruz appeal. I feel like they should have persuaded DJI to spec they're EBIkes, and then we get to keep the VPP. Is it much different from a Trek now?
@@christopherwatson1163 not very different at all TBH. Just a bit less blunt in terms of front end frame feel and less travel. Non removable battery so no rattle worries but less convenient for recharging / travel etc. Cheaper than new Rail though! TBH I think you’d be surprised at how much like a Trek the latest Bronson feels compared to yours too.
i dont think there is enough data on the DJI avinox as in reliability and software problems for manufacturers to get on board, playing it safe for the time being is what i think till that data comes in over the next 6 months to a year regarding thee avinox motor
@@GuyKesTV This was my fear!!! I am encouraged by the new Hightower, but the signs point to SC losing some of their character - like you said, the new Bronson, isn't very Bronson like. I was thinking of switching over to an SL Ebike, just waiting on a Bullit SL to rear it's head... fingers crossed!
Kes, Where does the Vala stack up in the similarly outfitted e-bikes? I’ve owned and loved several Santa Cruz bikes, but am newer to the e game. Is it worth the premium costs to us civilians over say, the shuttle AM? Thx
Id put a 170 fork on it and put a 205x65 shock with a short piggy back to be clear of any frame contact, id bet this bike would be perfect with these mods. 🍻🤤
@@saroneo it’s agile for a mid weight e-bike and got a really nice clean feel to the ride which makes it seem lighter and more precise. It’s a lot smoother and more settled than SL too, as there’s less pedal kickback and those Schwalbe tyres are super damped. My mate who has an SL rode it a couple of times though and called it the Santa Cruz Valium as he really missed the stand out pop and play of the Heckler.
Yeh looking at the vala when it came out figured it looked very similar to my mythique which is cool.. components not same obviously be looking at upgrading fork and brakes soon possibly but great value e-bike I thought.. you should throw a leg over and see
Do you not think it’s a bit weird how they didn’t go with an older VPP system like the 2016 Santa Cruz bronson? Still seems strange that they have totally abandoned the VPP entirely when they have had other versions of it that would have worked with the motor…. Is this just an excuse to abandon the VPP? 🤔
@@GuyKesTVah yea I get that but my point is why didn’t they go with an older VPP system? It’s interesting that they didn’t go with a higher VPP like they had on the 2015 to 2018/19 VPP system which was higher! Interesting how they have gone 4 bar when they had VPPs in high positions etc lol
@ new suspension chief Kieran clearly prefers the 4 bar feel. It’s been obvious how much he disliked old VPP in several of the SC ‘roller door’ podcasts. Quite funny to listen to once you clock it 🤣
@ I’m with you under the tin hat, loved old skool VPP. Don’t like the more neutral feel of the latest Bronson much at all. It’s definitely smoother overall but it’s got no kick and just feels gutless under power.
Santa Cruz don't talk openly or loudly enough about one of the main "feature" of the Vala, you can only charge directly on the bike, battery is not (easily) removable pretty sure if you opened with that most people would have closed the video, left a like but it's def not for me
Cheers for the like anyway Fred. Do you remove your battery regularly then? I'm actually talking to a brand ATMO who's going back to a full external battery for maximum user convenience (and lower weight/better ride quality)
I guess it depends on how accessible your charger is - I’ve just traded in my beloved Heckler 9 for one of these and I never had to remove the battery as I could always charge in the garage. Chopping a huge hole in the down tube required a lot of strengthening. If you’re a two-battery all-day explorer, even with the extender I can see this wont fit the bill.
Back in 2020 I was still riding my old faithful 2007 Specialized Stumpjumper hardtail then 4 years ago I decided to get with the program having watched your review and bought an S build 5010 and after a few weeks bought a set of Carbon Reserve wheels with DT Swiss hubs. My twice a week visits to BP Wales showed my that I should've bought a Bronson so I chopped my 5010 in and had a no expense spared CC framed XO Bronson Custom built by Howard at the old Pedal and Spoke who I'd bought the 5010 from. I loved it and pondered an EMTB for the days at home. I just didn't like the look of the Heckler and thought it too much of a CHUNKER. I liked the look of the Heckler SL but had my doubts, The Motor and the issues with keeping water out...Seeing these two reviews you have made on the Vala (and to be fair some others) has made me bite the proverbial and order an XO build Vala today - I love my I9 Hydra Hubs on my Bronson so much they're the only upgrade I'll make. Thanks Guy for another superb Review. I'll jump on the Patreon this evening as I absolutely think you deserve all the support. Thanks Guy. Best Regards, Sam. (Duplicated from my Comments on your Live ride)
Can't wait to see what they do with new bullit.
when's that due?
I've been researching emtb for a few weeks now. Really don't want to spend upwards of $10k or more, but I also have had my last mountain bike since 2012. This might be a buy once cry once kind of situation. I like what I see and hear about the Vala, especially that is doesn't scream emtb when you look at it -- a bit more incognito at the trailhead is good for places where you might have trail Karens.
You don’t need to spend 10k mate plenty of really really good e-bikes for 5/6k
Thumbs up specifically for the Beastie Boys analogy 👍🏻
@@heywood165 I nearly went with Blur and Song 2 but that’s not really in the same league
Very much want to ride one of these!
Reckon it'd love your local trails Chris, and you're a Schwalbe Radial fan right?
@@GuyKesTV I haven't tried any Schwalbe tyres for years!
@@downtimepodcast Sorry my bad. You DEFINITELY need to try some of them
Be interested to see a DH test on the DJI vs something with similar travel or a little more!
Well Cestline made it work with Vpp so not sure what they are smoking! Probably cause 4 bar is just a lot simpler and is very active to give good traction with E-mtbs
Just another thing to be wary about with a VPP. The Crestline can only take 220mm of insertion depth on the seat post, which means you can't slam even a 150mm dropper post into the frame. This unfortunately makes the bike unrideable for me and my stupid 30" inseam. Much prefer a good old 4-link that will allow a nice long dropper. My Orbea Wild can slam a 210mm dropper, no problem.
@@davekozsan347 Uh? Why is it possible then with my Heckler 9? :)
@@WildeSuchteleibecause the stand over height is gargantuan on your heckler compared to modern e-bikes. My heckler SL can run a 210 on the large frame but it’s an SL not a full power.
Great bike,all except one thing,its a mullet! Hate mullets
@@camperp195 I like how it feels in some situations, but whenever I’ve ridden mullet and 2 x 29 of the same bike I’ve preferred 2 x 29 too
Great vid as usual , big fan. How much friction/drag is in the motor when you ride through the support limit of 25kph? Ride60 seems to have nil, EP8 is like riding through treacle
@@emotioneering you can barely feel the motor over run, but you can DEFINITELY feel that front tyre
I hope they don’t move to the Bosch SX motor for lighter eMTBsz I was not a fan of the motor on the Whyte I tested. At first I thought it was good; natural feeling and powerful, but once things got steep I found the motor would just die if you didn’t keep the cadence very high. The Fazua was much better in this regard. If they could just get the reliability right, I much prefer it.
Yeah the need to keep super high cadence is definitely an issue with the SX on steep climbs or any other low revs high torque situation
22:53 would that flap have to be removed when you use the battery extender?
@@mikekool43 it would have to be open, at which point there’s a good chance it would remove itself 😬
@ wondering if it’s meant to be removed or it’s a bit of a afterthought. Did it go back in easy enough after filming?
Seems like a good blending of "attitude" and "build specification$."
Yeah, that's exactly it
Will my Trek dealer work on this bike. I love this bike.
Orbea Wild has the new Bosch as well, they have experience with designing 4 bar bikes, and its cheaper with both battery options. Don't waste your money.
I have a 22 Bronson... the VPP is a massive part of the Santa Cruz appeal. I feel like they should have persuaded DJI to spec they're EBIkes, and then we get to keep the VPP. Is it much different from a Trek now?
@@christopherwatson1163 not very different at all TBH. Just a bit less blunt in terms of front end frame feel and less travel. Non removable battery so no rattle worries but less convenient for recharging / travel etc. Cheaper than new Rail though!
TBH I think you’d be surprised at how much like a Trek the latest Bronson feels compared to yours too.
i dont think there is enough data on the DJI avinox as in reliability and software problems for manufacturers to get on board, playing it safe for the time being is what i think till that data comes in over the next 6 months to a year regarding thee avinox motor
@@megane230f1tons of guys are pushing DJI yet it has zero history and they can't even buy it. That's wild they wouldn't do that with a car.
@@GuyKesTV This was my fear!!! I am encouraged by the new Hightower, but the signs point to SC losing some of their character - like you said, the new Bronson, isn't very Bronson like.
I was thinking of switching over to an SL Ebike, just waiting on a Bullit SL to rear it's head... fingers crossed!
Kes,
Where does the Vala stack up in the similarly outfitted e-bikes? I’ve owned and loved several Santa Cruz bikes, but am newer to the e game. Is it worth the premium costs to us civilians over say, the shuttle AM? Thx
Id put a 170 fork on it and put a 205x65 shock with a short piggy back to be clear of any frame contact, id bet this bike would be perfect with these mods. 🍻🤤
I’d wait for the next Bullitt as I’m presuming that’ll be something like that as stock
@@GuyKesTV Yea same here waiting the new bullit! Gonna be killer bike..
Next month, the Bullit with the Bosch and 800 battery
I've not heard anything on it, but that would seem a natural move
Not an ebiker yet, similar to you, I like exercise on my rides and earn the downhills but a Vala SL at the right Uk price would be tempting 😊
How does it compare to Heckler SL in terms of ride quality, feel and fun ? Which one would you personally pick and why?
@@saroneo it’s agile for a mid weight e-bike and got a really nice clean feel to the ride which makes it seem lighter and more precise. It’s a lot smoother and more settled than SL too, as there’s less pedal kickback and those Schwalbe tyres are super damped. My mate who has an SL rode it a couple of times though and called it the Santa Cruz Valium as he really missed the stand out pop and play of the Heckler.
How is it competitive price wise? €8799 for C S model ....
How does it compare to my vitus emythique ?
I've not ridden the Vitus I'm afraid, but the basic suspension layout and geometry aren't that different
Yeh looking at the vala when it came out figured it looked very similar to my mythique which is cool.. components not same obviously be looking at upgrading fork and brakes soon possibly but great value e-bike I thought.. you should throw a leg over and see
do u find the bike heavy does it feel playful through the trail? looks a fantastic bike
@@Markozzy plenty playful enough without getting sketchy when sh*t goes sideways. Feels like the weight and stability is in just the right places.
@@GuyKesTV cheers for the information that's a great help
Do you not think it’s a bit weird how they didn’t go with an older VPP system like the 2016 Santa Cruz bronson? Still seems strange that they have totally abandoned the VPP entirely when they have had other versions of it that would have worked with the motor…. Is this just an excuse to abandon the VPP? 🤔
The shape of the Bosch motor makes the pivot positions needed for the latest version of VPP impossible
@@GuyKesTVah yea I get that but my point is why didn’t they go with an older VPP system? It’s interesting that they didn’t go with a higher VPP like they had on the 2015 to 2018/19 VPP system which was higher! Interesting how they have gone 4 bar when they had VPPs in high positions etc lol
@ new suspension chief Kieran clearly prefers the 4 bar feel. It’s been obvious how much he disliked old VPP in several of the SC ‘roller door’ podcasts. Quite funny to listen to once you clock it 🤣
@@GuyKesTVfair enough I’ve just got my tin foil hat on thinking are they going the phase out the VPP 😂
@ I’m with you under the tin hat, loved old skool VPP. Don’t like the more neutral feel of the latest Bronson much at all. It’s definitely smoother overall but it’s got no kick and just feels gutless under power.
Is the front a 28 or a 32 spoke wheel..
@@ceriway380 28 front, 32 rear
@GuyKesTV question. I have orbea rise h15 and at some point the wheels need to be upgraded, could get away with 28 spock front wheel.
@@ceriway380 a surprising amount of really tough wheels have 28 front and I’ve never found it an issue
Santa Cruz don't talk openly or loudly enough about one of the main "feature" of the Vala, you can only charge directly on the bike, battery is not (easily) removable pretty sure if you opened with that most people would have closed the video, left a like but it's def not for me
Cheers for the like anyway Fred. Do you remove your battery regularly then? I'm actually talking to a brand ATMO who's going back to a full external battery for maximum user convenience (and lower weight/better ride quality)
I guess it depends on how accessible your charger is - I’ve just traded in my beloved Heckler 9 for one of these and I never had to remove the battery as I could always charge in the garage. Chopping a huge hole in the down tube required a lot of strengthening. If you’re a two-battery all-day explorer, even with the extender I can see this wont fit the bill.
@@GuyKesTVI guess we all have different needs. I wouldn’t buy a bike with a removable battery.
@@markjohnston7683 exactly this Mark. Deal breaker for some, a win for others 🤷♂️
Raceguard rather than Crud XL is for me the most radical change on this bike