i started on a bronson in 18 , now 24 heckler. many 4 bars before that. vpp made me feel at home better than 4 bar ever could. maybe just me , but i'll take vpp any day
Full suspension linkage systems were figured out 20 years ago, after much debate no doubt, and full suspension bikes were perfected within the last 6-7 years. It took some time but I think we're there. The same exact thing happened with hardtail bikes running suspension forks. At a certain point, once all the experimentation had settled, a few viable standards arose and brands had to adapt or risk folding. I think we're seeing the very same thing here with e-bikes. One day, when the technology has improved, maybe brands will start experimenting again. For now, consumers want to know how good the 'e' component of the bike is, rather than suspension kinematics. Specialized on the other hand does apparently really care about suspension kinematics, but I still don't think most consumers notice.
Makes sense. If vpp was developed to enhance pedal characteristics, it makes no sense on ebikes where most of the torque is delivered by the motor, directly onto the cranks, without any interference from downward movement like the leg power.
The current heckler SL doesn’t fit in with the line up. I love it! But it’s definitely looking obsolete considering the motor reliability has been so poor, and the torque and range so limited despite being near full power weight. My heckler SL build with DH brakes, and exo plus tires even with the Lyrik fork and super deluxe shock is 45.5lbs. The new vala high end bike is 47.5 lbs with DH tires and a 38… I may be switching to the full power soon lol.
Price plays a big part in the weight of any bike so it’s hard to compare. Also those are claimed weights on the Santa Cruz site. wWhen we get a Vala for test, we’ll post a weigh in.
They weren't the first to realise things had to change in order to move on and develop something different to their generic offering, Yeti realised 6 years ago whilst developing the I60e that to keep moving forward their mindset had to change to be competitive in the e-bike market.
It’s for anyone that doesn’t want to ride a Specialized. And there’s plenty of those riders. Also the rear suspension isn’t great on the current Turbo Levo platform. Obviously SL is different.
@@MBRmagazineThe Levo is recognized as one of the absolute best if not absolute best all round trail e-bike. Your claim that’s its suspension platform isn’t that great is just absolute horse shit! Whether in stock mode or with a cascade link the Levo is still an absolute thrill to ride. You guys sometimes talk such a pile of nonsense it makes me wonder whether you’re on drugs…
Personally think it’s a great bike and kudos to SC for being brave in changing their design ethos, as for the Bosch Gen 5 I think it will still be the go to motor even compared to the DJI personally I don’t want that type of power think it’s to much 🤷♂️ and I reckon it will eat chains and cassettes for breakfast so you better have a good supply 😂
Interesting video. I think you blokes could fit some larger laptops in the video though, those 17 inch MacBooks look tiny I can still just see your heads
Let's be realistic here. What benefit does this rig offer in an already over saturated market? I just don't get it when SC already has a pronounced industry standing with analog bikes. Worse yet, it seriously looks cut and paste. It has zero style to it. Granted bicycles can only go so far, but they could've done something to set it apart. Unbadged and I'd be like, "Nice Polygon" or "Nice Rocky Mountain" etc. This is by no means a standout bike. I'm no market guru by a longshot, however, I personally don't think SC should've made the "E" plunge. What they should do is drop $1-1.5k off some of their bikes so I can ride one and see what all the fuss is about. Good review though gents. Thanks.
My Bullit weighs 22.4kg, why go to this bike with limited specs?? Simply makes no sense at this time. I will comment that SC does design with future technology on the horizon in mind. I would expect they are planning on going to the “other” motor with the bike refined for weight reduction in the near future to get the rig below 20kg, and 100nm… 👍🏼. Thus allowing them to modernize all of their offerings. I smell substantial change in the future.
If you want a 4 bar, go buy a bike from a company that has been making them for decades. You can get the same motor on the new Orbea Wild for thousands less. The Vala was a bad choice by SC. Also... the claim that they couldn't fit it all in is BS, Crestline has the same motor and VPP linkage.
We were sat in the shuttle bus with the product manager from Santa Cruz in 2016 and asked him whether they were going to do an e-bike. He said 'nah, those things are kooky!' 😂 That's a pretty big U-turn!
Previously all Santa Cruz models looked the same. Now this bike looks like everybody else's.
Yup, that’s the problem. Vitus, Norco, Trek, the list goes on. Doesn’t mean it’s not got its own flavour tho.
On paper/video/photos I would say yes. In reality no. It looks like a santa cruz.... you have to see it.
@@alexbiketester You are probably right.
i started on a bronson in 18 , now 24 heckler. many 4 bars before that. vpp made me feel at home better than 4 bar ever could. maybe just me , but i'll take vpp any day
Full suspension linkage systems were figured out 20 years ago, after much debate no doubt, and full suspension bikes were perfected within the last 6-7 years. It took some time but I think we're there. The same exact thing happened with hardtail bikes running suspension forks. At a certain point, once all the experimentation had settled, a few viable standards arose and brands had to adapt or risk folding. I think we're seeing the very same thing here with e-bikes. One day, when the technology has improved, maybe brands will start experimenting again. For now, consumers want to know how good the 'e' component of the bike is, rather than suspension kinematics. Specialized on the other hand does apparently really care about suspension kinematics, but I still don't think most consumers notice.
You nailed it! Most e-bike riders are looking for a specific motor/ecosystem, then the bike brand is secondary.
That looks like the suspension setup on my 16 year old Specialized... Oh wait, it is.
That’s funny. But I know which one I’d choose!
Doesn't Crestline use vpp on their ebikes?
Yes that's right.
VPP patent has probably expired, just like the FSR patent did .
Makes sense. If vpp was developed to enhance pedal characteristics, it makes no sense on ebikes where most of the torque is delivered by the motor, directly onto the cranks, without any interference from downward movement like the leg power.
Couldn’t agree more. But the VPP links can also be tuned to have a much plusher feel. Just not when a big e-bike motor is in the way!
Fantastic boys thank you
Our pleasure!
Maestro system still works on E-bikes, good work Giant!
But it has its drawbacks. All the Giants have massive chainstays. Great for climbing, but not the most agile.
@@MBRmagazinelong chainstays are ideal for balanced handling on size larger and above.
Maybe, depends what your priorities are. Guess the point is, it’s difficult for Giant to shorten the chainstays whether they wanted to or not.
Nice video, another good e-bike undoubtedly !
Hopefully we can get one on test soon, then we can answer that. 😂
The current heckler SL doesn’t fit in with the line up. I love it! But it’s definitely looking obsolete considering the motor reliability has been so poor, and the torque and range so limited despite being near full power weight. My heckler SL build with DH brakes, and exo plus tires even with the Lyrik fork and super deluxe shock is 45.5lbs. The new vala high end bike is 47.5 lbs with DH tires and a 38… I may be switching to the full power soon lol.
Crazy that the Santa Cruz Vala already feels outdated when compared to the DJI bikes.
@@ryanrodriguez1234lol everything looks obsolete compared to those, but they won’t be in the US for years and by then maybe they will be obsolete too?
@@ryanrodriguez1234 and everything else that’s just launched! Wild, right?!
Price plays a big part in the weight of any bike so it’s hard to compare. Also those are claimed weights on the Santa Cruz site. wWhen we get a Vala for test, we’ll post a weigh in.
Do these new ones catch on fire?
Credit to them. One of the worst thing you can do is being the same. If it makes their bikes better, good move.
Spot on 👍
They weren't the first to realise things had to change in order to move on and develop something different to their generic offering, Yeti realised 6 years ago whilst developing the I60e that to keep moving forward their mindset had to change to be competitive in the e-bike market.
As a customer If you want the best FSR Ebike available you’re going with the Specialized Levo. Not sure who this bike is for.
It’s for anyone that doesn’t want to ride a Specialized. And there’s plenty of those riders. Also the rear suspension isn’t great on the current Turbo Levo platform. Obviously SL is different.
@@MBRmagazineThe Levo is recognized as one of the absolute best if not absolute best all round trail e-bike. Your claim that’s its suspension platform isn’t that great is just absolute horse shit! Whether in stock mode or with a cascade link the Levo is still an absolute thrill to ride. You guys sometimes talk such a pile of nonsense it makes me wonder whether you’re on drugs…
is this some custom link? i don't think any stock model comes with silver link... unless its cascade?
The bike in the riding footage from Laguna is a prototype. Hence the silver rocker link
So you can have a VPP link or a mid-drive motor, but not both. And no significant manufacturer can afford to ignore e-bikes.
It doesn’t rattle and that per se it’s game changing,more power for what? It’s like megapixels on the photography,humans are never happy
What’s the e-mtb equivalent of pixel peeping?! Torque Tweaking 😂
Has this replaced the Heckler?
Think so. No official statement, but it seems like it would.
I think Heckler and Bullit will last until their contract ends with Shimano motor
@@YongPark-g3hmore likely, until they sell through existing stock
Only detail is that they do not leave any routing for aux light powered from motor, i do use it.
That would be handy if you live in Switzerland
@@MBRmagazinenot exactly. I live in central america and i normally do my riding at 4:30am and summer i do ride at night as well.
This whole thing where the bike you bought 3 months ago is now obsolete, will further destroy the bike industry…
Not just obsolete, it’s also half price! It’s crazy
Personally think it’s a great bike and kudos to SC for being brave in changing their design ethos, as for the Bosch Gen 5 I think it will still be the go to motor even compared to the DJI personally I don’t want that type of power think it’s to much 🤷♂️ and I reckon it will eat chains and cassettes for breakfast so you better have a good supply 😂
The new Bosch CX is impressive, even if it’s not rip-your-face-off powerful
Looks like a Vitus E Sommet. Santa Cruz copies the most legendary brand that is dead now. I really miss Vitus
Even down to the colour! Yeah such a shame what happened to Vitus.
@@MBRmagazine 💯💯 yes the color too😁😁
So they built a Trek Rail
Interesting video. I think you blokes could fit some larger laptops in the video though, those 17 inch MacBooks look tiny I can still just see your heads
😂
Let's be realistic here. What benefit does this rig offer in an already over saturated market? I just don't get it when SC already has a pronounced industry standing with analog bikes. Worse yet, it seriously looks cut and paste. It has zero style to it. Granted bicycles can only go so far, but they could've done something to set it apart. Unbadged and I'd be like, "Nice Polygon" or "Nice Rocky Mountain" etc. This is by no means a standout bike. I'm no market guru by a longshot, however, I personally don't think SC should've made the "E" plunge. What they should do is drop $1-1.5k off some of their bikes so I can ride one and see what all the fuss is about. Good review though gents. Thanks.
Just release the new Bullit with the Bosch
New name maybe Valhalla?
@@YongPark-g3hYes, why not?
I’m sure it’s coming, just a case of when.
Or just get a Crestline with an extra 10mm of travel. 😬
@@SBSOLOCO Crestline is the dream bike for sure
It would be if they’d ditch vpp completely, which they very likely won’t do.
True and we did make that point in the video
before you do some DERBY CYCLE-ing: 😅 the change in design is because they had to FOCUS.😂 😅
There's nothing wrong with E-MTB...if you want to spend $$$, go for it! I 'm OG hardtail and rather buy 3-4 hartails over 1 E-MTB....
My buddy recently bought new full suspension 140/150 emtb for $2500. I know there are many hardtails more expensive than that.
You can’t still do both, right?!
That’s a lot of teeth-rattling action right there
when every sentence sounds like a question......
Makes it hard to watch when he talks like that, I couldn’t finish the video. 😅
You taking offence at my accent!😢
They're running out of ideas, and all these bikes are becoming the same. What they should do is just bring down the prices.
Cheaper options would be amazing. More bums on saddles is always a good thing
Analog....you mean normal mtb
My Bullit weighs 22.4kg, why go to this bike with limited specs?? Simply makes no sense at this time. I will comment that SC does design with future technology on the horizon in mind. I would expect they are planning on going to the “other” motor with the bike refined for weight reduction in the near future to get the rig below 20kg, and 100nm… 👍🏼. Thus allowing them to modernize all of their offerings. I smell substantial change in the future.
Feel like motor bikes like this should be on a separate channel.
EMBR?
If you want a 4 bar, go buy a bike from a company that has been making them for decades. You can get the same motor on the new Orbea Wild for thousands less. The Vala was a bad choice by SC. Also... the claim that they couldn't fit it all in is BS, Crestline has the same motor and VPP linkage.
Buy a yeti!
Man every one EVERY ONE is taking this out of context...
Sc isn't forsaking vpp, it's just not using vpp for this bike... Bloody click baiters
Did you watch the video? We made that exact point.
@@MBRmagazine no I don't watch videos with click bait sensationalist titles
So many toxic 🤡 comments.
Ha! Just comment on them!
We were sat in the shuttle bus with the product manager from Santa Cruz in 2016 and asked him whether they were going to do an e-bike. He said 'nah, those things are kooky!' 😂 That's a pretty big U-turn!