My video on the issue of the BBC's support of Transphobia: ua-cam.com/video/aN4uc0HZrWE/v-deo.html My video on the BBC's response to complaints of its reporting: ua-cam.com/video/skh81N5lcYY/v-deo.html My short on why I'll continue to put up the note at the front of these: ua-cam.com/users/shortsHpwwzjzFXiE Shaun's 1st video, which includes some additional confirmed information: ua-cam.com/video/b4buJMMiwcg/v-deo.html Shaun’s 2nd video, which follows how the BBC is trying to dodge accountability for all of this: ua-cam.com/video/qfjTG6SVjmQ/v-deo.html Shaun’s 3rd video, following him escalating his complaints: ua-cam.com/video/fRn1UZ4fhdE/v-deo.html Shaun's 4th video, covering the BBC's response: ua-cam.com/video/3F7GW7Ro4OQ/v-deo.html Laura Kate Dale's protest speech outside the BBC offices: ua-cam.com/video/hBjGnWkwAjI/v-deo.html
The Flux 6 parter/Series 13 had a lot of good ideas but they weren't fully developed partially because its just 6 episodes & partially because its dealing with the problems of The Timeless Child from Series 12.
The funniest thing with Di is that she later says they spared her because of how "unimportant" she is, which means that she's important enough for them to single her out from the entire universe, but too unimportant to actually be used in their plans.
A behind-the-scenes tell-all documentary about the making of Flux would probably be more entertaining than Flux. I'd love to know exactly what issues Chibnall and the production were dealing with and how we ended up with this.
That is a great idea cause I get some of their problems were pandemic related but it would be nice to know the whole production story of flux cause it’s been rumored that at least one episode was cut from the production order so that would be a fantastic idea
The whole series just seems to me like Chibnall had a bunch of vague ideas that he thought might be interesting to include in the series, and then just decided to dump all of the introductions to those ideas in Halloween Apocalypse, without actually figuring out ahead of time what he was going to do with the ideas when he got to the episodes where they were being dealt with. So you get plots like Claire having dreamed of the Doctor and Yaz and that’s where she supposedly knew them from (though it really read to me in HA like Claire had actually interacted with them in person - like they were meeting in different times). Or the tunnels guy being absolutely meaningless, despite constantly showing up, which seems to me more like a bigger plot idea that they did film some more stuff for, but cut in the edit, but they had to leave him in because of scenes he was in that were important to the other plots. Or Jericho being added to episodes 5 and 6 when he was originally only planned to be in episode 4. And for all of that, the thing that still pisses me off the most is that Chibnall basically forgot about the interpersonal relationship between Yaz and 13, and that the most we get is 13 essentially abusing Yaz - which never really gets resolved. It’s just a complete mess.
@@chaserseven2886 I mean that his contribution to the narrative is wildly less than what his inclusion of popping up throughout the series would seem to indicate. The whole idea of “the tunnels are being weird and doors go to random places” isn’t actually integrated into the rest of the narrative structure of the series (it’s just this side thing that happens almost entirely disconnected from the rest of the events of the series), nor does it fit into the themes of the series, and ultimately serves only as a method to transport Yaz, Dan, and Jericho to the present, which could have been done in any number of ways. The character is fun and the actor portrays him well, I like that the show highlighted the actual historical person, and I’m sure that the people of Liverpool liked having that bit of their history highlighted. I think there was a lot of potential with the character and the story, I just wish it had been better executed.
It wasn't dealt with too deep but it was enough to make me interested in him/the tunnels and look into them. I thought it was a cool little plot point which puts a cool spin on something quite random
"... you're just one thing that has shown up out of nowhere and claims to be all powerfull. OK, we get a lot of you." Brilliant! I could actually imagine the Doctor saying that to an enemy.
this episode is like an introduction to a really rushed essay. so many hopeful ideas established initially with so little time to develop them in the actual essay
I get what you mean at the end about knowing why it was disaster. Knowing the WHY only lets you know who to blame, it doesn't make the end result better.
Flux feels like Chibnall watched Twin Peaks: The Return, but didn't fully understand why that season works so well. I like the idea of a season of Doctor Who being an experimental interconnected story with a larger cast, but the failure to ask any interesting questions, answer questions as we go along to make room for new ones, and leave it bereft of any themes or ideas is just not the way to go about things. Twin Peaks: The Return is experimental, with many characters and branching storylines, but there's a strong main thread with Cooper, Laura, and Judy, and the other stories are taking place within that conflict, even if they're not directly connected to it. Plus, it featured a cast of characters the audience already knows and cares about, so it's much easier to follow and not get lost when new characters pop up. All we had for Flux was Yaz and the Doctor, and the previous two seasons arguably didn't set up a reason to care about them, and they barely do anything interesting the whole time they're there. The Return also has a central theme that every character connects to in one way or another, tying everything together thematically. Flux needed a real pruning and a sense of focus; it ends up feeling like a bunch of stuff happening at the same time without a proper exploration.
The Flux 6 parter/Series 13 had a lot of good ideas but they weren't fully developed partially because its just 6 episodes & partially because its dealing with the problems of The Timeless Child from Series 12.
I agree. We are supposed to accept that The Flux is the main threat as it is the title of the series as a whole. But it's presented in a mess of questions with, as you said no foundation.
I remember watching this the first time and just being so confused. As mentioned in the video, it was really hard to figure out what was the important part to latch on to. I'd really hoped that Flux would be better as I enjoy serialises short seasons but I think Chibnall crapped the bed on this one and perhaps ruined future serialisations for Nu Who audiences. Personally, I think that Flux would have worked better by having Omega return and the flux itself being a byproduct of that... A wave of antimatter spreading across the universe destroying everything it touches. In my head, this separates the series into two main threads: civilisations banding together to try and stop the destruction caused by the flux, which acts more as a force of nature, whilst the Doctor simultaneously goes head to head with Omega to stop his dastardly plan. Then I realised that I wouldn't trust Chibnall not to ruin Omega's return and that it'd be best left to a future show runner.
I enjoyed Flux because starting with Revolution of the Daleks i stopped measuring Chibnall Who by the standards set by Moffat and RTD. I realized that he was never gonna make the Doctor Who I wanted to see, cuz even his best work was basically just fun if you turn your brain off. So that’s what I did for everything post s12, and it worked out all right. I’ve got issues with Flux, but I enjoyed it more because my only expectations at that point were for it to be fun. And it was. But it certainly says something that I had to do that.
20:52 If you say Terror of the Vervoids, that would be kinda funny (cause its the episode Chris Chibnall criticised when he was young- if I remember correctly)
I actually love Flux overall, but yeah, it's a shame that it became a victim of Covid restrictions that prevented it from being as great as it could have been. I'm just glad that we got Doctor Who at all in 2021.
I had allot of fun with flux. Especially the first 4 and 5 to a point. I think the ending didn't quite stick the landing but damn do I have fun. Incidentally swarm and azure are brilliant
I honestly believe flux was 8 episodes as it was originally annouced then the bbc slapped on the 100th anniversary specials so Chibnall took 2 episodes to fill out the year
I just watched this for the first time a couple of months ago, and I read the "overstuffedness" as sort of the point of the episode. The whole thing is an exercise in overstimulation; the episode wants the viewer disoriented and uncertain, and the lack of a firm narrative foundation works to this end. The episode toys with the viewer; early on it intimates that the Karvanista chase would be the centre, but in reality those moments only serve to lure the viewer into a false sense of stability, so that the next wild disorientation hits even harder. The result of all this is an all-pervading sense of danger. Nothing is safe, nothing is secure, and you can feel the narrative disintegrating just as the universe is. It certainly doesn't hold together much as a narrative, but I found it a phenomenally effective aesthetic experience; something that generally holds throughout Flux.
One of the other things that makes this thing feel overstuffed is that there is little to no let down in between scenes introducing stuff. And all the stuff that's introduced is feels like it's all equally important. There's no central story thread or even a little bit of connective tissue. If they really needed to pare down due to episode number restraints, I think a couple of this plot threads could've been shuffled to different episodes throughout the season. Or cut down to a shorter scene. I was rewatching this episode with my mom (who was watching it for the first time) and I found myself not able to explain things to her. Because I was realizing that I didn't exactly know why certain scenes were in here. One thing I do think I like is that having all these different characters and viewpoints makes it feel like Flux is a tangible existential threat. It feels VERY chaotic and desperate. Sometimes in DW it seems like the Doctor is saving the universe from an existential threat every other episode. I think this first episode really sets the Flux apart (at least initially) from other calamities. Like it really feels like everything in the universe is going to shit. On a side note, I loved Dan's into but I also thought Vinder's intro was great too. Very intriguing, he was the character I was most interested to catch up with.
Thank you for the video, Vera! Every part of episodic medias deserves to be evaluated individually at some point, even and especially if it sets in a story or arc for later. In fact, if a first part fails to establish well its plots and characters, the story will probably suffer because of that. This first episode is really demonstrative of Chris Chibnall's writing style in Doctor Who: much exposition, setting for interesting ideas with good potential which some of them just end there, making you imagine what could be, and events happen because they just do. I understand that the original number of episodes was reduced and only half of the Flux serial was recorded before the COVID-19 lockdown, but Chibnall could at least had re-edited the first episode in order to trim down unnecessary parts.
It's a sort of modern equivalent of Trial of a Time Lord. Both had different reasons for their crash and burn: a global pandemic restricting said production and the other being a corporation not holding onto its most treasured franchise any longer. Both leave the viewer scratching the viewer to the point of where it produces a bald patch. What I agree in both is at least these were what we were given as Doctor Who at the time, just not the dots connecting correctly in a perfect way. At least it was some Who on those years than no Who at all.
I agree that flux suffered from having too much going on. I do think that without knowing how anything was panning out, this episode being overstuffed, while not a good thing, wasn't necessarily bad. at the time we didn't know if that's just how things had to be introduced. I'll say one thing though; chibbers is pretty good at setting up situations, but he really couldn't pull the thread through so a lot just fell flat. like, it makes sense to have a character see the flux begin, which is what vinder appeared to be. it makes sense that the doctor, aka the main character, not know what's going on. but it doesn't get explored properly and that sucks. if they'd just cut the timeless child stuff in episode five (and the unit stuff, tbh, because it just eats up time; just the scene with the grand serpent, who should've been kept to just vinder's flashback, and kate would've sufficed, because the already given explanation worked fine. no need for 'this guy has been worming his way through unit's history!!') it would've worked much better. credit where credit is due, despite it being a mess, I had fun watching the episode, which is one of my ways of deciding whether I think something's good or not
I know I saw this episode, but I can't remember feeling anything about it, which is pretty much the case for the whole of the Whittaker/Chibnall era except the Dalek-y New Year specials
It's easy for me to see both sides cause I fall somewhere in the middle. I think the chaos really sells the Flux as an existential threat. The way I see it, Flux as a season is like being at sea during a storm. You are either enjoying the ride or feel overwhelmed by the waves and disoriented. It's a little bit of both for me.
I remember liking some bits and pieces of this episode, but also that it was overstuffed, messy, and confusing due to its decision to just give us a bunch of plot threads, most of which don't go anywhere in this episode. It's actually a criticism I had of the 1st episode of The Mandalorian's recent season 3 - it was too busy setting up stuff for later in the season that it didn't bother to actually deliver a proper episode. I do remember having some hope that Flux wouldn't fumble all that set up, but I think it did for much of it. I was also surprised by how much I liked Dan in this episode (and season and in general, until he was just wasted at the end of his run), even if I wanted a beat or two more before they tried to fill the companion "vacancies", just focusing on The Doctor & Yaz a bit longer (I'm not big on the shipping, either, just because it's been the weakest part of the modern Doctor/companion relationships, not for the particular pairing). If we're just talking this episode, the Dan/Karvinista pairing is a perfect addition for the episode's events, the issue comes from the many other things going on (likewise, later in the season). I never liked Swarm & Azure (I remember friends saying they were great, while I argued they were horrible), and the Flux was also generically dull. Laughing a bit about the likening of this start to "Lost", it was the comparison in my mind (in that it also sets up a lot but does it much more smoothly, within the context of an episode with a storyline told within that time constraint).
I think the Halloween apocalypse is great fun. I think flux is great fun. Parts 1-4 is especially brilliant, part 5 is good but part 6 is waaaay too rushed but I still had fun with it. I really had fun with this episode in itself and the series as a whole. I rewatched this episode recently. It looks simply gorgeous, a fun snappy plot and brilliant enemies in swarm and azure. Karvanista is brilliant and funny. It's just a fun episode.
After the Timeless Child my expectations were rock bottom, and I certainly did not expect Flux to hold up to any scrutiny. I was just happy to soak up the various elements of the episode which I found entertaining and atmospheric. It also helped that we saw Joseph Williamson early on. It made absolute sense that if Doctor Who was going to be Liverpool centric, then his tunnels would be involved. I once ended up in Liverpool for a day unexpectedly, and the tour of the tunnels was memorable, alongside the waterfront, the Cavern Club, and the Catholic and Protestant cathedrals each built in each others styles. If it wasn't for that, I would have no idea who he was, and probably found his inclusion in the episode an odd distraction.
My one minor defence for the series is the world was on lock down. They had to either put a lot of people out of work or quickly rush out a few episodes. Jodie had to isolate herself from everyone outside of work. They had to find ways of re-using actors which is partly why some characters show up so early. However from a story point I do agree some stuff doesn't make sense. Azure's introduction is what Lindsay Ellis used to call a big lipped alligator moment. A reference to "All Dogs Go To Heaven" it comes out of nowhere, makes no sense and is never spoken off again. Vinder just seemed to be there a lot of the time to boost ratings and get fans of Game Of Thrones to tune in. The Lupari get confusing like how do they know the names of every person on Earth? If it is literally one per person, what happens to babies and young children? Although rushed, some stuff kind of makes sense later on. Diane is randomly kidnapped because she's vulnerable and isolated alone on a street corner. Although admittedly it does take a while before it's explained Swarm and Azure need to kidnapp a lot of people. Claire sort of needed to have a quick introduction for part 4 to work. I guess it was put here to add to the long list of mysteries. Similar to The Williamson's Tunnels. The Williamson's Tunnels are similar to "Demons Of the Punjab" where they have taken a part of real life history and added aliens to it.
There's a lot of stuff going on in "The Halloween Apocalypse", but there's not much of a reason why we should actually be invested in any of it. The episode is effectively a big mystery box, teasing the audience and encouraging them to keep watching so they can work out why any of the stuff we see here is actually relevant...and with the knowledge that a lot of this stuff won't be relevant, it makes this episode very frustrating in hindsight. I was incredibly bewildered when I first watched this, but still gave it the benefit of the doubt and largely enjoyed myself. Now though, the whole episode just feels like a muddled scattershot episode that's all plot and no story. The stuff with Dan and Karvanista is a lot of fun and largely makes the episode bearable, but most of the episode is just total near-incoherent nonsense
The way you were describing this episode gave me the image of opening a puzzle upside down so you can't see what it's suppose to look like and it's also one of those weird shaped puzzles so it doesn't have discernable edge pieces to start with? And it's impossible to know as you start putting pieces together based on shade and shape what is going to end up where or how many of the chunks are going to be important parts of the image and how much is going to be pointless background gradient. Just thought I'd offer this metaphor and see if it does anything for you?
The only good thing about this season and this episode in particular are the EVIL DAN memes. Also the designs of the Ravagers were really good but they were wasted on extremely shallow villains. They could've been villains that exemplified/personified greed or even capitalism specifically because they have those extremely rich-looking costumes juxtaposed with their skeletal faces, it's kind of unsettling yet cool and I wish that that design could've supported a greater narrative/philosophical idea, but alas. It's kind of the same problem I had with the Fisher King - he looked absolutely badass but all he did was walk about and die.
When in comes to Overarching Story for Classic Who, I tend to go for Key to Time more than Trial of a Timelord, but I can see the latter coming up as an example.
Flux is pretty much Modern Who's Trial of a Time Lord, and, for me, that's not a good thing. This episode was pretty much just a glorified setup episode with a collection of exposition scenes rather than a cohesive episode in its own right.
The fact that this was setup and asked a bunch of questions didn't bother me all that much, personally. Granted, I haven't rewatched since it aired, and I don't tend to analyze on a first viewing unless something yanks me out of a story (coda to Orphan 55). I remember being curious about all of the different things, and looking forward to the ride. I was surprised by how much I liked Dan, but I can't imagine the dynamic of the TARDIS team without him. Yaz never would have opened up on her own, and the Doctor certainly wouldn't have acknowledged anything on her own, given how tightly she held her secrets. Dan, as an outside observer at first, and then more of a companion to Yaz than to the Doctor, has the perspective and the desire to help that breaks down the walls of communication. We get to see how he operates in this story, and it shows how he'll fit in with the rest of the TARDIS crew really well. And I know this is the final product, but I think some of the dangling plot threads would have been better handled if we got the full run of episodes as intended. What I would love to see, if Chibs was willing, is the full set of original scripts for Flux, to fill in the gaps. That, or a novelization of the whole story. I'm excited to hear you're watching Trial of a Time Lord for review! It was one of the first stories I saw in its entirety, and one of the first VHS tapes of Doctor Who I ever owned - big TARDIS-shaped box set I got for Christmas in 1994. I love it to pieces, faults and all, and have watched it more times than I can count. I can see where you're finding the similarities between it and Flux - both production and narrative-wise. I'm looking forward to the review, when you get to it!
This episode really felt like the first 5 minutes of every episode in this series stitched together. Flux is very overstuffed with about 3 series' worth of ideas squeezed into a shortened series. It had potential, but needed a lot more time and, probably a better (writing) team to make it work.
Yes. And some good stories have bad starts and some bad stories have good starts. That doesn't make it unfair to take those trailers or openings as a measure for setting expectations because the exceptions are just that: exceptions.
I feel that Carvanista, Swarm & Azure, and the Flux itself were intended to set up Division. All leading to the Tecteun scene at the end of Once Upon Time. Division itself was also seeded in Series 12. Clearly the biggest hurdle to making Flux was Covid and then a loss of interest on the part of the BBC. I feel the BBC wouldn't have gone into either deal with Bad Wolf or Disney if they still were excited about the show. The main production constant of Doctor Who seems to be that, at some point, the higher ups at the BBC lose interest because "it just doesn't draw money like it used to."
100 percent agree with this being too overstuffed. Compare this to series 6s opener The Impossible Astronaut and Day of the Moon. It starts with a big hook - we see the doctor apparently die, having invited Amy, Rory and River and later a past version of himself, unaware of who invited them. There's a few plot threads but it has a big key hook at the centre and it makes people talk and debate. This however just throws everything at the screen. As you mentioned, a series opener should add some questions but in a way that interests you without just confusing you. The series 6 openers work on their own without the answers while as this one is nothing without its other parts. The thing is I still can't say what the Flux is. In the first episode It seems to be able to destroy planets and is made to seem like it's the end of the universe like bad but it seems forgotten about in episode 2 and then we later see planets that have survived. The universe is nearly fully destroyed and it's never explained how they resolved it. Like you say, it needs a focus
I really don't understand what you're saying with "Yes you can judge movies by their trailers'" No. You really can't? You can only judge trailers by trailers. Suicide Squad had an amazing trailer and was garbage. Rise of Skywalker similarly looked much better than it ended up being. Inversely, Edge of Tomorrow and the Martian had pretty weak trailers but were really good movies. Beyond those anecdotes there are movies with deceptive trailers like "Drive" or "Bridge to Terabithia" which (while solid enough movies) were drastically different types of films then presented in a 2-minute increment of marketing. What are you wanting to communicate?
@@glitch84- You have been given an impression of the movie from the trailer - whether it looks like something you enjoy - and you can judge that *impression*, but you can't judge the overall product (that doesn't mean you opinions about the movie from the trailer are invalid.) Oh I see thank you for elaborating with that second paragraph. Your opinion on the movie isn't invalid, but it's just based on the trailer.
I was one who piled on when this came out that the story needed to play out. I was high on copium, and you were proven out to be correct in your worry.
Flux is more of a mess then the trial of a timelord cause trial of a timelord flows better having the advantage of the of the prosecution and the defense getting their plot told as a serial not as the whole thing as one episode each plot is 4 episodes long where as flux feels like it needed at least one more episode to let’s somethings breath like the unit stuff
I think people were defending this episode originally since the rest of the series was not out the last time you reviewed this and some foolish people like me had hope it would be better. Turns out it didnt get better apart from the sontaran episode
This is the least successful season of Doctor who ever made. Not necessarily the worst, there's a lot of good stuff in here, but no season has ever failed so completely to be what it was trying to be.
You can judge a trailer as a trailer, not as a film. And trailers don't set-up stories, they introduce stories. The Halloween Apocalypse is set-up. The Series 13 trailer is introduction. This isn't a niche difference; these are blatantly different mediums altogether, with different intentions.
I actually knid of want them to just redo Flux. Like, the whole thing - just do it all again, and plan it out properly. Because at the time, I thought it was the best series Chibnal created that actually got me to care about Doctor Who again (as well as Power of the Doctor).
I think Sutekh from Pyramids of Mars might have been a better choice than the Ravagers. Old Who give you some races/characters more powerful than the Timelords or he Doctor
the over all story of the FLUX seemed rushed and incomplete....of course it was......originally was suppose to be 10 episodes but was cut to 6.....i was like "WHY THE F are you even publishing this series."......basically i would NOT have released any of the FLUX unless the BBC allowed me to do all 10 episodes.....sorry, incomplete stories should not air...like "Shadda" from the 4th Doctor Era, that story was incomplete and did not air until much later....to be honest, i don't think Shadda was complete even when they released it a decade or 2 later
I really hope they just retitled Agatha, the last thing Marvel needs right now is more random spin-offs. They kinda jumped the gun announcing Agatha and Echo, which I would cancel if I were them if not for how far along they already are.
I thought this was a good episode on rewatch - I find the core plot solid and intriguing, I think the characters are… fine, and I think visually it is very well handled. That said, it is definitely overstuffed. This would have been a stronger episode with at least some of the future references cut out. Also, I agree that you can judge the first chapter on its own without having to wait. Subsequent episodes/chapters can color your view, but the first episode does still exist on its own and can be judged on its own.
"Flux" is a synonym for dysentery, so appropriately this series consists of a lot a crap, all coming way too fast, lacking in substance and eventually just leaving you feeling drained.
My video on the issue of the BBC's support of Transphobia: ua-cam.com/video/aN4uc0HZrWE/v-deo.html
My video on the BBC's response to complaints of its reporting: ua-cam.com/video/skh81N5lcYY/v-deo.html
My short on why I'll continue to put up the note at the front of these: ua-cam.com/users/shortsHpwwzjzFXiE
Shaun's 1st video, which includes some additional confirmed information: ua-cam.com/video/b4buJMMiwcg/v-deo.html
Shaun’s 2nd video, which follows how the BBC is trying to dodge accountability for all of this: ua-cam.com/video/qfjTG6SVjmQ/v-deo.html
Shaun’s 3rd video, following him escalating his complaints: ua-cam.com/video/fRn1UZ4fhdE/v-deo.html
Shaun's 4th video, covering the BBC's response: ua-cam.com/video/3F7GW7Ro4OQ/v-deo.html
Laura Kate Dale's protest speech outside the BBC offices: ua-cam.com/video/hBjGnWkwAjI/v-deo.html
The Flux 6 parter/Series 13 had a lot of good ideas but they weren't fully developed partially because its just 6 episodes & partially because its dealing with the problems of The Timeless Child from Series 12.
This episode is like the opposite of a Halloween pumpkin - stuffed with stuff
The funniest thing with Di is that she later says they spared her because of how "unimportant" she is, which means that she's important enough for them to single her out from the entire universe, but too unimportant to actually be used in their plans.
A behind-the-scenes tell-all documentary about the making of Flux would probably be more entertaining than Flux. I'd love to know exactly what issues Chibnall and the production were dealing with and how we ended up with this.
That is a great idea cause I get some of their problems were pandemic related but it would be nice to know the whole production story of flux cause it’s been rumored that at least one episode was cut from the production order so that would be a fantastic idea
Radio Free Skaro's discussion with Chris Chibnall was really good in this regard. 🧝🏾
The whole series just seems to me like Chibnall had a bunch of vague ideas that he thought might be interesting to include in the series, and then just decided to dump all of the introductions to those ideas in Halloween Apocalypse, without actually figuring out ahead of time what he was going to do with the ideas when he got to the episodes where they were being dealt with.
So you get plots like Claire having dreamed of the Doctor and Yaz and that’s where she supposedly knew them from (though it really read to me in HA like Claire had actually interacted with them in person - like they were meeting in different times).
Or the tunnels guy being absolutely meaningless, despite constantly showing up, which seems to me more like a bigger plot idea that they did film some more stuff for, but cut in the edit, but they had to leave him in because of scenes he was in that were important to the other plots.
Or Jericho being added to episodes 5 and 6 when he was originally only planned to be in episode 4.
And for all of that, the thing that still pisses me off the most is that Chibnall basically forgot about the interpersonal relationship between Yaz and 13, and that the most we get is 13 essentially abusing Yaz - which never really gets resolved.
It’s just a complete mess.
@@chaserseven2886 I mean that his contribution to the narrative is wildly less than what his inclusion of popping up throughout the series would seem to indicate. The whole idea of “the tunnels are being weird and doors go to random places” isn’t actually integrated into the rest of the narrative structure of the series (it’s just this side thing that happens almost entirely disconnected from the rest of the events of the series), nor does it fit into the themes of the series, and ultimately serves only as a method to transport Yaz, Dan, and Jericho to the present, which could have been done in any number of ways. The character is fun and the actor portrays him well, I like that the show highlighted the actual historical person, and I’m sure that the people of Liverpool liked having that bit of their history highlighted. I think there was a lot of potential with the character and the story, I just wish it had been better executed.
It wasn't dealt with too deep but it was enough to make me interested in him/the tunnels and look into them. I thought it was a cool little plot point which puts a cool spin on something quite random
8:17 On the topic of the species bond: I wonder how Yaz's Lupari reacted to Karvanista placing Yaz in the same situation as 13 in the opening...
I was just thinking that! Where was Yaz's Lupari?
Same here, where was Yaz's Lupari or any Lupari during every invasion by the Daleks, Cyberman or villain of the week?
Shhh!! Don’t talk about the logical consequences of the premise! 😉
"... you're just one thing that has shown up out of nowhere and claims to be all powerfull. OK, we get a lot of you."
Brilliant! I could actually imagine the Doctor saying that to an enemy.
Right at the start, the Doctor claims that she and Yaz did a circus skills workshop together, which I assumed was equivalent to being lesbian married.
this episode is like an introduction to a really rushed essay. so many hopeful ideas established initially with so little time to develop them in the actual essay
I get what you mean at the end about knowing why it was disaster. Knowing the WHY only lets you know who to blame, it doesn't make the end result better.
Trial of a Timelord being "pretty mixed" is a generous description
Flux feels like Chibnall watched Twin Peaks: The Return, but didn't fully understand why that season works so well. I like the idea of a season of Doctor Who being an experimental interconnected story with a larger cast, but the failure to ask any interesting questions, answer questions as we go along to make room for new ones, and leave it bereft of any themes or ideas is just not the way to go about things.
Twin Peaks: The Return is experimental, with many characters and branching storylines, but there's a strong main thread with Cooper, Laura, and Judy, and the other stories are taking place within that conflict, even if they're not directly connected to it. Plus, it featured a cast of characters the audience already knows and cares about, so it's much easier to follow and not get lost when new characters pop up. All we had for Flux was Yaz and the Doctor, and the previous two seasons arguably didn't set up a reason to care about them, and they barely do anything interesting the whole time they're there. The Return also has a central theme that every character connects to in one way or another, tying everything together thematically.
Flux needed a real pruning and a sense of focus; it ends up feeling like a bunch of stuff happening at the same time without a proper exploration.
The Flux 6 parter/Series 13 had a lot of good ideas but they weren't fully developed partially because its just 6 episodes & partially because its dealing with the problems of The Timeless Child from Series 12.
I kinda love the intro. It’s so silly and I found it a lot of fun. It’s just a silly little “oh look at the Doctor in a pickle” moment.
The joke with the voice-activated handcuffs was pretty cute too
‘Stuffed with stuff’ sent me 😂😂😂😂
Puts the “turd” in _turducken!_
I agree. We are supposed to accept that The Flux is the main threat as it is the title of the series as a whole. But it's presented in a mess of questions with, as you said no foundation.
I remember watching this the first time and just being so confused. As mentioned in the video, it was really hard to figure out what was the important part to latch on to. I'd really hoped that Flux would be better as I enjoy serialises short seasons but I think Chibnall crapped the bed on this one and perhaps ruined future serialisations for Nu Who audiences.
Personally, I think that Flux would have worked better by having Omega return and the flux itself being a byproduct of that... A wave of antimatter spreading across the universe destroying everything it touches. In my head, this separates the series into two main threads: civilisations banding together to try and stop the destruction caused by the flux, which acts more as a force of nature, whilst the Doctor simultaneously goes head to head with Omega to stop his dastardly plan.
Then I realised that I wouldn't trust Chibnall not to ruin Omega's return and that it'd be best left to a future show runner.
I enjoyed Flux because starting with Revolution of the Daleks i stopped measuring Chibnall Who by the standards set by Moffat and RTD. I realized that he was never gonna make the Doctor Who I wanted to see, cuz even his best work was basically just fun if you turn your brain off. So that’s what I did for everything post s12, and it worked out all right. I’ve got issues with Flux, but I enjoyed it more because my only expectations at that point were for it to be fun. And it was.
But it certainly says something that I had to do that.
20:52 If you say Terror of the Vervoids, that would be kinda funny (cause its the episode Chris Chibnall criticised when he was young- if I remember correctly)
Got it in one.
@@CouncilofGeeks ... Oh, Chris
I actually love Flux overall, but yeah, it's a shame that it became a victim of Covid restrictions that prevented it from being as great as it could have been. I'm just glad that we got Doctor Who at all in 2021.
I had allot of fun with flux. Especially the first 4 and 5 to a point. I think the ending didn't quite stick the landing but damn do I have fun.
Incidentally swarm and azure are brilliant
Flux around and find out. Again. Somehow a year and a half feels like an eternity already
I genuinely could’ve traded Eve of the Daleks and Legend of the Sea Devils if it could’ve helped Flux be better and reduce stuffing
I honestly believe flux was 8 episodes as it was originally annouced then the bbc slapped on the 100th anniversary specials so Chibnall took 2 episodes to fill out the year
I don't tell you this enough but you are a genius
I just watched this for the first time a couple of months ago, and I read the "overstuffedness" as sort of the point of the episode. The whole thing is an exercise in overstimulation; the episode wants the viewer disoriented and uncertain, and the lack of a firm narrative foundation works to this end. The episode toys with the viewer; early on it intimates that the Karvanista chase would be the centre, but in reality those moments only serve to lure the viewer into a false sense of stability, so that the next wild disorientation hits even harder. The result of all this is an all-pervading sense of danger. Nothing is safe, nothing is secure, and you can feel the narrative disintegrating just as the universe is. It certainly doesn't hold together much as a narrative, but I found it a phenomenally effective aesthetic experience; something that generally holds throughout Flux.
One of the other things that makes this thing feel overstuffed is that there is little to no let down in between scenes introducing stuff.
And all the stuff that's introduced is feels like it's all equally important. There's no central story thread or even a little bit of connective tissue.
If they really needed to pare down due to episode number restraints, I think a couple of this plot threads could've been shuffled to different episodes throughout the season. Or cut down to a shorter scene.
I was rewatching this episode with my mom (who was watching it for the first time) and I found myself not able to explain things to her. Because I was realizing that I didn't exactly know why certain scenes were in here.
One thing I do think I like is that having all these different characters and viewpoints makes it feel like Flux is a tangible existential threat. It feels VERY chaotic and desperate. Sometimes in DW it seems like the Doctor is saving the universe from an existential threat every other episode. I think this first episode really sets the Flux apart (at least initially) from other calamities. Like it really feels like everything in the universe is going to shit.
On a side note, I loved Dan's into but I also thought Vinder's intro was great too. Very intriguing, he was the character I was most interested to catch up with.
Thank you for the video, Vera!
Every part of episodic medias deserves to be evaluated individually at some point, even and especially if it sets in a story or arc for later. In fact, if a first part fails to establish well its plots and characters, the story will probably suffer because of that.
This first episode is really demonstrative of Chris Chibnall's writing style in Doctor Who: much exposition, setting for interesting ideas with good potential which some of them just end there, making you imagine what could be, and events happen because they just do. I understand that the original number of episodes was reduced and only half of the Flux serial was recorded before the COVID-19 lockdown, but Chibnall could at least had re-edited the first episode in order to trim down unnecessary parts.
It's a sort of modern equivalent of Trial of a Time Lord. Both had different reasons for their crash and burn: a global pandemic restricting said production and the other being a corporation not holding onto its most treasured franchise any longer. Both leave the viewer scratching the viewer to the point of where it produces a bald patch. What I agree in both is at least these were what we were given as Doctor Who at the time, just not the dots connecting correctly in a perfect way. At least it was some Who on those years than no Who at all.
I agree that flux suffered from having too much going on. I do think that without knowing how anything was panning out, this episode being overstuffed, while not a good thing, wasn't necessarily bad. at the time we didn't know if that's just how things had to be introduced. I'll say one thing though; chibbers is pretty good at setting up situations, but he really couldn't pull the thread through so a lot just fell flat. like, it makes sense to have a character see the flux begin, which is what vinder appeared to be. it makes sense that the doctor, aka the main character, not know what's going on. but it doesn't get explored properly and that sucks. if they'd just cut the timeless child stuff in episode five (and the unit stuff, tbh, because it just eats up time; just the scene with the grand serpent, who should've been kept to just vinder's flashback, and kate would've sufficed, because the already given explanation worked fine. no need for 'this guy has been worming his way through unit's history!!') it would've worked much better. credit where credit is due, despite it being a mess, I had fun watching the episode, which is one of my ways of deciding whether I think something's good or not
Flux makes Trial of a Timelord look like Citizen Kane.
I know I saw this episode, but I can't remember feeling anything about it, which is pretty much the case for the whole of the Whittaker/Chibnall era except the Dalek-y New Year specials
I understand why it’s not to some peoples taste, but I absolutely love the chaos of Flux, it’s one of my favourite series of Doctor Who
It's easy for me to see both sides cause I fall somewhere in the middle. I think the chaos really sells the Flux as an existential threat. The way I see it, Flux as a season is like being at sea during a storm. You are either enjoying the ride or feel overwhelmed by the waves and disoriented.
It's a little bit of both for me.
It's a cool analogy, I really like flux. Great fun with some truly standout episodes with village of the angels and once upon time.
I’m the same I love flux
I remember liking some bits and pieces of this episode, but also that it was overstuffed, messy, and confusing due to its decision to just give us a bunch of plot threads, most of which don't go anywhere in this episode. It's actually a criticism I had of the 1st episode of The Mandalorian's recent season 3 - it was too busy setting up stuff for later in the season that it didn't bother to actually deliver a proper episode. I do remember having some hope that Flux wouldn't fumble all that set up, but I think it did for much of it.
I was also surprised by how much I liked Dan in this episode (and season and in general, until he was just wasted at the end of his run), even if I wanted a beat or two more before they tried to fill the companion "vacancies", just focusing on The Doctor & Yaz a bit longer (I'm not big on the shipping, either, just because it's been the weakest part of the modern Doctor/companion relationships, not for the particular pairing). If we're just talking this episode, the Dan/Karvinista pairing is a perfect addition for the episode's events, the issue comes from the many other things going on (likewise, later in the season). I never liked Swarm & Azure (I remember friends saying they were great, while I argued they were horrible), and the Flux was also generically dull. Laughing a bit about the likening of this start to "Lost", it was the comparison in my mind (in that it also sets up a lot but does it much more smoothly, within the context of an episode with a storyline told within that time constraint).
I think the Halloween apocalypse is great fun. I think flux is great fun. Parts 1-4 is especially brilliant, part 5 is good but part 6 is waaaay too rushed but I still had fun with it.
I really had fun with this episode in itself and the series as a whole. I rewatched this episode recently. It looks simply gorgeous, a fun snappy plot and brilliant enemies in swarm and azure. Karvanista is brilliant and funny. It's just a fun episode.
After the Timeless Child my expectations were rock bottom, and I certainly did not expect Flux to hold up to any scrutiny. I was just happy to soak up the various elements of the episode which I found entertaining and atmospheric. It also helped that we saw Joseph Williamson early on. It made absolute sense that if Doctor Who was going to be Liverpool centric, then his tunnels would be involved. I once ended up in Liverpool for a day unexpectedly, and the tour of the tunnels was memorable, alongside the waterfront, the Cavern Club, and the Catholic and Protestant cathedrals each built in each others styles. If it wasn't for that, I would have no idea who he was, and probably found his inclusion in the episode an odd distraction.
My one minor defence for the series is the world was on lock down. They had to either put a lot of people out of work or quickly rush out a few episodes. Jodie had to isolate herself from everyone outside of work. They had to find ways of re-using actors which is partly why some characters show up so early.
However from a story point I do agree some stuff doesn't make sense. Azure's introduction is what Lindsay Ellis used to call a big lipped alligator moment. A reference to "All Dogs Go To Heaven" it comes out of nowhere, makes no sense and is never spoken off again. Vinder just seemed to be there a lot of the time to boost ratings and get fans of Game Of Thrones to tune in. The Lupari get confusing like how do they know the names of every person on Earth? If it is literally one per person, what happens to babies and young children?
Although rushed, some stuff kind of makes sense later on. Diane is randomly kidnapped because she's vulnerable and isolated alone on a street corner. Although admittedly it does take a while before it's explained Swarm and Azure need to kidnapp a lot of people. Claire sort of needed to have a quick introduction for part 4 to work. I guess it was put here to add to the long list of mysteries. Similar to The Williamson's Tunnels. The Williamson's Tunnels are similar to "Demons Of the Punjab" where they have taken a part of real life history and added aliens to it.
It's a wonder it got made at all. Like you say chibs had to juggle allot to ensure it got made at all. I can pick faults but god damn is it great fun!
There's a lot of stuff going on in "The Halloween Apocalypse", but there's not much of a reason why we should actually be invested in any of it. The episode is effectively a big mystery box, teasing the audience and encouraging them to keep watching so they can work out why any of the stuff we see here is actually relevant...and with the knowledge that a lot of this stuff won't be relevant, it makes this episode very frustrating in hindsight. I was incredibly bewildered when I first watched this, but still gave it the benefit of the doubt and largely enjoyed myself. Now though, the whole episode just feels like a muddled scattershot episode that's all plot and no story. The stuff with Dan and Karvanista is a lot of fun and largely makes the episode bearable, but most of the episode is just total near-incoherent nonsense
Am interested to see your thoughts on Trial given it's nature as a character study of 6.
The way you were describing this episode gave me the image of opening a puzzle upside down so you can't see what it's suppose to look like and it's also one of those weird shaped puzzles so it doesn't have discernable edge pieces to start with? And it's impossible to know as you start putting pieces together based on shade and shape what is going to end up where or how many of the chunks are going to be important parts of the image and how much is going to be pointless background gradient.
Just thought I'd offer this metaphor and see if it does anything for you?
The only good thing about this season and this episode in particular are the EVIL DAN memes.
Also the designs of the Ravagers were really good but they were wasted on extremely shallow villains. They could've been villains that exemplified/personified greed or even capitalism specifically because they have those extremely rich-looking costumes juxtaposed with their skeletal faces, it's kind of unsettling yet cool and I wish that that design could've supported a greater narrative/philosophical idea, but alas.
It's kind of the same problem I had with the Fisher King - he looked absolutely badass but all he did was walk about and die.
When in comes to Overarching Story for Classic Who, I tend to go for Key to Time more than Trial of a Timelord, but I can see the latter coming up as an example.
Great video but totally agree with you too much in it and knowing how it ended doesn't go well on a rewatch
Just a minor note: there is also the Key To Time, but that was more six separate stories.
Yeah to call that one an overarching story is a stretch. And I say that as an overall fan of it.
@@CouncilofGeeks there was also the Big Finish Key 2 Time, which was the first BF I heard that wasn’t Shada.
Flux is pretty much Modern Who's Trial of a Time Lord, and, for me, that's not a good thing. This episode was pretty much just a glorified setup episode with a collection of exposition scenes rather than a cohesive episode in its own right.
Loving the new intro!
The fact that this was setup and asked a bunch of questions didn't bother me all that much, personally. Granted, I haven't rewatched since it aired, and I don't tend to analyze on a first viewing unless something yanks me out of a story (coda to Orphan 55). I remember being curious about all of the different things, and looking forward to the ride. I was surprised by how much I liked Dan, but I can't imagine the dynamic of the TARDIS team without him. Yaz never would have opened up on her own, and the Doctor certainly wouldn't have acknowledged anything on her own, given how tightly she held her secrets. Dan, as an outside observer at first, and then more of a companion to Yaz than to the Doctor, has the perspective and the desire to help that breaks down the walls of communication. We get to see how he operates in this story, and it shows how he'll fit in with the rest of the TARDIS crew really well. And I know this is the final product, but I think some of the dangling plot threads would have been better handled if we got the full run of episodes as intended. What I would love to see, if Chibs was willing, is the full set of original scripts for Flux, to fill in the gaps. That, or a novelization of the whole story.
I'm excited to hear you're watching Trial of a Time Lord for review! It was one of the first stories I saw in its entirety, and one of the first VHS tapes of Doctor Who I ever owned - big TARDIS-shaped box set I got for Christmas in 1994. I love it to pieces, faults and all, and have watched it more times than I can count. I can see where you're finding the similarities between it and Flux - both production and narrative-wise. I'm looking forward to the review, when you get to it!
I don’t even remember an episode titled this 😂
This episode really felt like the first 5 minutes of every episode in this series stitched together.
Flux is very overstuffed with about 3 series' worth of ideas squeezed into a shortened series.
It had potential, but needed a lot more time and, probably a better (writing) team to make it work.
Some good trailers are from bad movies. Some good movies have bad trailers.
Yes. And some good stories have bad starts and some bad stories have good starts. That doesn't make it unfair to take those trailers or openings as a measure for setting expectations because the exceptions are just that: exceptions.
I feel that Carvanista, Swarm & Azure, and the Flux itself were intended to set up Division. All leading to the Tecteun scene at the end of Once Upon Time. Division itself was also seeded in Series 12.
Clearly the biggest hurdle to making Flux was Covid and then a loss of interest on the part of the BBC. I feel the BBC wouldn't have gone into either deal with Bad Wolf or Disney if they still were excited about the show. The main production constant of Doctor Who seems to be that, at some point, the higher ups at the BBC lose interest because "it just doesn't draw money like it used to."
100 percent agree with this being too overstuffed.
Compare this to series 6s opener The Impossible Astronaut and Day of the Moon. It starts with a big hook - we see the doctor apparently die, having invited Amy, Rory and River and later a past version of himself, unaware of who invited them. There's a few plot threads but it has a big key hook at the centre and it makes people talk and debate.
This however just throws everything at the screen. As you mentioned, a series opener should add some questions but in a way that interests you without just confusing you. The series 6 openers work on their own without the answers while as this one is nothing without its other parts.
The thing is I still can't say what the Flux is. In the first episode It seems to be able to destroy planets and is made to seem like it's the end of the universe like bad but it seems forgotten about in episode 2 and then we later see planets that have survived.
The universe is nearly fully destroyed and it's never explained how they resolved it. Like you say, it needs a focus
I'd completely forgotten what the 1st episode of Flux was called so I was very confused. Was it even set at Halloween?
Yeah. It doesn’t matter at all but yes.
I really don't understand what you're saying with
"Yes you can judge movies by their trailers'"
No. You really can't?
You can only judge trailers by trailers.
Suicide Squad had an amazing trailer and was garbage.
Rise of Skywalker similarly looked much better than it ended up being.
Inversely, Edge of Tomorrow and the Martian had pretty weak trailers but were really good movies.
Beyond those anecdotes there are movies with deceptive trailers like "Drive" or "Bridge to Terabithia" which
(while solid enough movies) were drastically different types of films then presented in a 2-minute increment of marketing.
What are you wanting to communicate?
@@glitch84- You have been given an impression of the movie from the trailer - whether it looks like something you enjoy - and you can judge that *impression*, but you can't judge the overall product (that doesn't mean you opinions about the movie from the trailer are invalid.)
Oh I see thank you for elaborating with that second paragraph. Your opinion on the movie isn't invalid, but it's just based on the trailer.
I was one who piled on when this came out that the story needed to play out. I was high on copium, and you were proven out to be correct in your worry.
I think bits of the episode are good, as a whole though - I agree with you
It will be a very long time before I rewatch Flux
I want to forget everything about chibnall era
I think due to mitigating factors it's the epic that never got started.
Flux is more of a mess then the trial of a timelord cause trial of a timelord flows better having the advantage of the of the prosecution and the defense getting their plot told as a serial not as the whole thing as one episode each plot is 4 episodes long where as flux feels like it needed at least one more episode to let’s somethings breath like the unit stuff
I think people were defending this episode originally since the rest of the series was not out the last time you reviewed this and some foolish people like me had hope it would be better. Turns out it didnt get better apart from the sontaran episode
I really will never understand how some fans think this was the best season of the chibnall/Whitaker era…. It’s such a mess…
Thus begins IMHO the worst season of Modern Doctor Who
This is the least successful season of Doctor who ever made. Not necessarily the worst, there's a lot of good stuff in here, but no season has ever failed so completely to be what it was trying to be.
You can judge a trailer as a trailer, not as a film. And trailers don't set-up stories, they introduce stories. The Halloween Apocalypse is set-up. The Series 13 trailer is introduction. This isn't a niche difference; these are blatantly different mediums altogether, with different intentions.
I actually knid of want them to just redo Flux. Like, the whole thing - just do it all again, and plan it out properly. Because at the time, I thought it was the best series Chibnal created that actually got me to care about Doctor Who again (as well as Power of the Doctor).
I just cant keep up with everything in this season it was crazy
I think Sutekh from Pyramids of Mars might have been a better choice than the Ravagers. Old Who give you some races/characters more powerful than the Timelords or he Doctor
the over all story of the FLUX seemed rushed and incomplete....of course it was......originally was suppose to be 10 episodes but was cut to 6.....i was like "WHY THE F are you even publishing this series."......basically i would NOT have released any of the FLUX unless the BBC allowed me to do all 10 episodes.....sorry, incomplete stories should not air...like "Shadda" from the 4th Doctor Era, that story was incomplete and did not air until much later....to be honest, i don't think Shadda was complete even when they released it a decade or 2 later
I really hope they just retitled Agatha, the last thing Marvel needs right now is more random spin-offs. They kinda jumped the gun announcing Agatha and Echo, which I would cancel if I were them if not for how far along they already are.
I thought this was a good episode on rewatch - I find the core plot solid and intriguing, I think the characters are… fine, and I think visually it is very well handled. That said, it is definitely overstuffed. This would have been a stronger episode with at least some of the future references cut out. Also, I agree that you can judge the first chapter on its own without having to wait. Subsequent episodes/chapters can color your view, but the first episode does still exist on its own and can be judged on its own.
You are wise and handsome 😊
"Flux" is a synonym for dysentery, so appropriately this series consists of a lot a crap, all coming way too fast, lacking in substance and eventually just leaving you feeling drained.
Brilliant!
Doctor who flux Halloween
trick or treat?
So much negativity.
Sorry but Americans and Dr Who don't mix
The very beginning just about sums it up 😔