My video on the issue of the BBC's support of Transphobia: ua-cam.com/video/aN4uc0HZrWE/v-deo.html My video on the BBC's response to complaints of its reporting: ua-cam.com/video/skh81N5lcYY/v-deo.html My short on why I'll continue to put up the note at the front of these: ua-cam.com/users/shortsHpwwzjzFXiE Shaun's 1st video, which includes some additional confirmed information: ua-cam.com/video/b4buJMMiwcg/v-deo.html Shaun’s 2nd video, which follows how the BBC is trying to dodge accountability for all of this: ua-cam.com/video/qfjTG6SVjmQ/v-deo.html Shaun’s 3rd video, following him escalating his complaints: ua-cam.com/video/fRn1UZ4fhdE/v-deo.html Shaun's 4th video, covering the BBC's response: ua-cam.com/video/3F7GW7Ro4OQ/v-deo.html Laura Kate Dale's protest speech outside the BBC offices: ua-cam.com/video/hBjGnWkwAjI/v-deo.html
Even though there were both Classic Era & Modern Era Doctors that acted more cruel than Whittaker's Doctor, her Era will likely be remembered as the cruelest due to the decisions made mostly by Chibnall himself.
For me, the biggest issue is the way the Doctor enacts the plan for the Sontarans, Daleks and Cybermen to be completely wiped out by the Flux. As you’re currently watching Trial of a Time Lord, one of the most powerful moments is, after the Sixth Doctor saves people from the Vervoids, that the Valeyard shocks him (and us) by accusing him of genocide. Yet here the Doctor literally does it. Three times over! This is meant to be the same character who spent most of the Russell T Davies and Steven Moffat years haunted by the deaths they had caused during the Time War? The same Doctor who disowned his Meta-Crisis version for destroying Davros and the Daleks. Who just a few weeks before angrily chastised someone for blowing up Sontaran ships. Yet here the Doctor wiped out three races with neither care, comment nor interrogation
@@stevetayler9518 But still he killed innocent children. The 11th doctor made the human race into murderers by making them kill the silence on sight. The doctor may make a song and dance about not carrying a gun but has no qualms about killing in other ways.
One thing that I noticed recently is how passive 13 is in her finales Ryan and Graham deal with Tim Shaw (that one at least makes sense) Kosharmus defeats the master and cybermen Swarm and azure kill tecteun Time defeats swarm and azure Vinder and Kate deal with the grand serpent So many of the finales focus on the doctor and yet she mostly just stands around until the villains take care of each other. I just wish 13 got a little more agency in these. (Or at least one of the main companions)
"And then a new character shows up" "And then they all died" has such 5-year-old improv energy. Its what I would do AS A CHILD when telling stories in the car on holidays. Every time we hit a wall, something random and new, or everyone dies. Its really frustrating because this is professional writers. Supposedly.
I agree that the interrogation between the Doctor and the Grand Serpent was the best/only good scene in this episode. Thirteen has always worked best in these moments where she plays up this mischievous persona gleefully annoying her enemies, in an ideal world the writers would've emphasised this aspect of her more and turned her into a Bugs Bunny-esque gadfly who cheerfully antagonises her opponents while running circles around them
The thing with Di is just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many many many more points like this throughout the whole of Flux - and I hadn't even been aware of this particular one until now. You just keep losing track of everything until you question your brain and wonder whether you missed something or whether it's indeed the messy plotting. The weird thing with this season is: A rewatch doesn't help you to untangle the story, in contrary, you come out even more befuddled than before.
This episode is the one that had me shouting at my screen, "Shut up! Oh my god please just shut up! Stop!" every time the Doctor spoke because literally all her dialogue is, "What? Where am I? A Sontaran ship? What's that doing there? Why am I here? How did that happen?" This was an excrutiating experience the first time I watched it.
So, to combine two of your points: Not only did Chibnall forget that, like, half the universe was destroyed, he also seems to have forgotten what the point of the Lupari was. Their function is to save humanity from the Flux. That's why Kavanista kidnapped Dan. So, where is the rest of humanity? Is there also a human aboard every one of those ships that the Sontarans jettisoned the Lupari out of? Because uh-oh! Now you've also killed all of humanity, too. But that doesn't happen, so what was the point of the Lupari? Why did Kavanista kidnap Dan? Why include this mechanic AT ALL if you refuse to engage with what it god damn means?!
Even though there were both Classic Era & Modern Era Doctors that acted more cruel than Whittaker's Doctor, her Era will likely be remembered as the cruelest due to the decisions made mostly by Chibnall himself.
I feel like this aspect of Chibnall's era isn't as iconic (in a negative way) as its other various issues, like the 6th Doctor just straight up attempting murder on his companion is a lot more memorable than 13 running around and ignoring deaths
I see both Survivors of the Flux and The Vanquishers as one glorified two-part finale, and like Survivors of the Flux, The Vanquishers is also a complete mess that further shows why Flux, as a whole, didn't really work. Much like The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos and The Timeless Children, we have yet another weak Chibnall finale.
My hypothetical solution to the Lupari death: they did get jettisoned but Williamson uses the space-time tunnels to snatch and rescue them from space one by one (e.g. like 11 rescuing River from space in then opening for Time of Angels). It was probably never on the cards as making new costumes would have been extra cost, but it would have felt like there was more of a point to Williamson. And, you know, less dog death
“I guess you lose track of two FRICKING THIRD OF THE UNIVERSE!” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 had me absolutely rolling around laughing that bit, Nathaniel/Vera. Oh you’re a genius. You’re like an American Doctor Who version of Jonathan Pie (please look him up he’s a political commentator comedian and he doesn’t pull punches either!) made my morning with that and your razor sharp critiques as always. You’re simply a genius. I’d love to know where you developed your skills as one of the best journalistic reviewers anywhere I’ve ever seen in my 49 years on the planet. Thank you always you beautiful human being ❤
I'm so sad to see Jodie gone and I'm really excited to see what Big Finish might do with her. I feel like her seasons never really gave her a chance to shine, though the little glimpses we got to see of what she could've been were absolutely dazzling. To me, hers will always be the compassionate-mad scientist-engineer Doctor...though when I say that to my boyfriend he just tells me that I'm only projecting what I want her to be onto what was effectively a blank slate.
@LiamLAC I tend to see different things in different doctors...and while, yes, there are core traits that are defining to the Doctor, each version remixes them in different ways. So while every doctor has a sense of wonder about them, for some it's being awestruck at the capability of humanity for good or ill, for others there is an absolute reverence for history and important events...every doctor has every trait but at the same time, each doctor shines most brilliantly when certain traits are being exercised. For 13, the moments that stand out the most, where she felt the most like her own doctor, and not like she was being written as 10 or 11, were scenes like her forging her sonic screwdriver or how she actually showed pain at having her companions leave. You're right, there's nothing in her that isn't in the other doctors, but the moments where she felt real, and really felt like she mattered as her own entity were the ones where she was leaning into her compassion, making solutions to problems, or going down the rabbit hole of how the impossible could actually work
Thank you for the video, Vera! It seems that the general opinion over the final of the Flux serial is an unearned ending. I love the Steven Moffat's era of the Doctor Who TV series, but, despite cool and clever storylines, even I admit that he and his writers did write themselves into a corner multiple times and botch some endings. In the case of Chris Chibnall's crew and the Flux, they did set up a lot stuff and were unable to develop proper some of it (again) because of the COVID-19 lockdown during the production of the serial. However, in the editing process, the fact of them keeping pointless plotlines, which they were at least aware about being unable to explore, feels like just stubbornness. Sometimes, the "less is more" approach could be better. Good part of the universe being destroyed, Time itself being released, killing the Ravagers, being cryptic to the Doctor and doing... nothing else, and the Doctor throwing the stopwatch with their memories about the Division into the TARDIS. Considering how the main TV series will probably never address these plot points again, as viewers, we NEED to assume that they are just resolved for being a conclusion of the Flux storyline (yes, it is still bad storytelling). The only hope for them being addressed again would be in the expanded media, such as audio dramas, comic books and novels.
I literally finished marathoning Flux last week and I STILL don't know if the entirety/majority of the Universe gets restored. Also good example of Chibnall forgetting about what happens in his own scripts in this episode...
The Universe is pretty huge. Most likely the first Flux wave only got a fraction of it. Besides, wouldn't be the first time parts of the Universe got destroyed without that being resolved. Logopolis.
Yeah, at the end they all hop in the TARDIS to travel the universe and I was just left thinking 'WHAT universe?!'. And why are there even stars or the Moon still in the sky, if the Flux ended at Earth? Such a mess of a story. 🙄🙄
One part that slightly annoyed me, back when I watched it, was how Diane treated Dan after he found her. I get she's been through a traumatic experience, but none of it wad Dan's fault. He couldn't have known about it. That being said, I remember them talking again in the Sea Devils episode, so at least they had a happy ending together :)
This episode was such an anticlimax to a series I had for the most part really enjoyed, there's still stuff that is great but it feels like it just fizzled out. Like, our big bad villains just get turned to dust by someone we met twenty seconds ago waving their hand, and I still have no idea why Vinder or the Grand Serpent are even here! When it aired I was baffled by the jolly let's go have more adventures in the completely decimated universe ending. I mean, yeah you saved Earth but if almost the whole world got wiped out but my town was fine, I'd still be pretty flippin' horrified!
When she’s given something to work with she’s fantastic. Unfortunately Chibnall insisted on writing 60% of the run on his own, getting his grubby little paws all over everything
@@nekusakura6748 Indeed, but it's easier to write baddies than goodies. As someone with a modest but extensive acting history, it's also easier to play villains than heroes.
Looking back, I think I liked this ending more than I do now because more got wrapped up than I expected, and I had elements that invested me (Jericho, Serpent). While I don't hate it, or Flux, it is a mediocre ending to a very mixed bag of a miniseries. Swarm and Azure's end feels fairly solid to me, with the general 'be careful what you wiah for' theme, as Time ends up not being evil. But there's so much that gets unexplained in other parts of the narrative that I can't fully trust that the read I got from it is what they were meanings to imply. I do think that Swarm being ok with dying makes sense to his character, so that's a good moment, but it highlights how vague their ideology is (beyond 'time hates space' and 'death is time'). As for the Grand Serpent, the lack of confirmation as to why he's doing what he's doing hurts his role in this episode. Him working with the Sontarans makes sense, and weakening Earth's defences for a payday also generally works, but it doesn't fit with how he originally was portrayed. He went from cruel functionary to a guy who lost everything but landed on his feet with a plan, to a lucky jerk who didnt think through. I liked GS being sent to the End of Time/Universe by Vinder, bur it feels like yet another villain being kept alive just because Chibs thinks he or one of the other writers might bring him back. He does it so often it ends up feeling self-congatulatory.
I can't believe Chibnall forgot he destroyed the universe, what an absolute hack. Unless he was just trying to make things as difficult for rtd out of spite.
Hey Vera, another great video & I LOVE the passion you have in this. So much! I’m not sure if you’ve ever touched on this (please forgive me if you have!) but I was given a copy of “doctor who a short story history of everyone” for my birthday and it seems to be “confirming” the timeless child story and the Gallifrey being destroyed (again)… is there still a way that the timeless child can be retconned in the new stories because I *hate* the timeless child story with a passion.
Also - the serpent was played fantastically. It seems that actor has been playing a heck of a lot of villains and he seems to relish in the task. (Line of duty and “life and death in the warehouse” - he was terrifying in the latter!)
I love the fact you have three great set up's at the end of this episode that were never capitalised on. 1) The majority of the universe was destroyed by the Flux, and The Doctor was complicit in the complete genocide of the Daleks, the Cybermen, and the Sontarans in order to protect the Earth - surely that's going to have ramifications later in, no wait we'll just have the Daleks (who've inexplicably survived) use this as a motive for revenge in the next episode. The Doctor throws the fob watch into the TARDIS, saying she may need it one day - setting up that The Doctor will need the Fob later, otherwise she'd have just thrown it into the Flux or the sun - never brought up again. Time is a malevolent entity that knows death is coming for The Doctor - never appears again.
I'm torn on the opening comments about the need to stick the landing in order to feel like the entire thing was worth it. There is a large part of me that agrees, that knows of several things (including the aforementioned Game of Thrones, which was already falling apart as it got to the end, but the flub made those stumbles that much worse in hindsight) where it is definitely true...and yet, there have been some things that I'm not so sure, where the ending wasn't right or even felt like the weakest part but I don't regret the time I spent with it (Succession, for a recent reference, felt like something that missed the mark on its capstone but still delivered some fantastic moments, including in that final season). Sometimes, the experience does feel like it validates itself - and sometimes it doesn't, and keeps punting that to the end, putting more pressure on that finale/conclusion, and that's what happened here with Flux (it just didn't provide a good enough, coherent enough, solid enough experience until the point that it could get away with a lacklustre wrap up). I can understand the comparison to Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang, but I feel it's a little flawed. In the case of that double episode finale, it was designed to be a two-parter coming after a mostly episodic season (that had a plot thread that ran through it) and Big Bang's meant to basically be an extremely extended third act to Pandorica Opens' first two acts (lead in to the arrival of aliens, second act concludes with the Doctor in the Pandorica) rather than two fully separate episodes (though I can understand the reasoning, as I said). In the case of The Vanquishers, it's actually designed as the final part of a long story that has both attempted to deliver a big story in multiple parts (Flux does not work on an episode-to-episode basis) but also still tried to be episodic (it failed). I do agree with most other points, including that the Doctor does get a few moments to shine (like with the snake guy), though I still don't like Swarm & Azure (not sure I agree they're well acted, but that may be on the writing/directing).
The only good thing about this Episode Is Jodie's performance because goddamn was she showing off some fine acting chops, just a shame there was no sustenance too her performance from the writing stand point :(
The whole "quest" to learn about The Timeless Child was literally a waste of everyone's time. What's the point of doing a search for answers when you're just going to end up throwing the answers away without even looking at them?
I watched it recently too. Really enjoyed it. All the points you bring up are broadly right but its still ridiculous anount of fun. The one thing eith never seeing lupari or however its spelt is purely money. They couldnt afford to do more than one!
I do understand that they couldn't afford to make more Lupari costumes. However, by trying to make us care about the wiping out of a group of people we haven't seen the show highlights that fact. It's an unforced error.
Covid did hamper this season, but that doesn't excuse all the threads that went nowhere, storylines that are just dropped and the whole thing just being a chaotic mess. So much wasted potential...
I haven't watched Flux since broadcast so I only have a vague memory left, well more of an impression really. Overall it was pretty fun despite its (universe destroying shaped) flaws and tied to the TC stuff which I'm non too fond off (wont get into another TC debate....). I don't think this review was too harsh as it highlights that there were some good moments in the episode (and series) which I agree does have a bitter sweet note in that it shows glimpses of what might have been *sigh*. Is it bad that I was chuckling and giggling through most of this video though, at the constant exasperated facial expressions and noises!! 😂😂 I know its a review and it was pointing out the negatives at times but it just really put a smile on my face, too funny!
i do agree that the overall story of "The Flux" needed at least 2 more episodes...the pacing was rushed and that cause all the story plots to fall short
I always thought it would've been a better ending if the Doctor created a new universe by using the Divisions technology, a universe which is identical to the current one prior to Flux and the Doctor uses the Passenger to transport all surviving life to the new universe, leaving Swarm and Azure to die. This way, although there's a whole new universe, the Doctor couldn't stop Flux and it successfully destroyed the universe, all the Doctor could do was save the people inside the universe.
@@CouncilofGeeks A bit, but not rebooting the universe. Everyone would remember the events of the Flux, the sontaran invasion, being in the passenger. I feel it would make the Flux also a lot more of a threat, it would truly make it an unstoppable force that not even the Doctor could stop. It's not even like it's something that would need any new ideas or anything, it was all set up in previous episodes. I actually thought this was how it was going to end before the finale aired. Also, if this was something that the Doctor realizes she could do at the start of the episode, it could cut down on a lot of the episodes problem with too many things to fix. The Doctor wouldn't have to stop the Sontarans, the daleks or the cybermen anymore, all she would need to do is evacuate all the humans and other innocent survivors and leave the sontarans, the daleks and the cybermen to fight over the Earth she had already evacuated. The entire episode's plot could've been cut down to primarily stopping Swarm and Azure and getting control of the Passenger to do this. And with Tecteun dead, she could easily use the Division's tech without anyone stopping her.
@@ftumschk - IMO Who has always been more on the science fantasy side of things. Although I do like when it skews science fiction. There have already been attempts at personifying concepts like the Guardians, Time's Champion/Death's Champion, etc which I think don't usually work unless there's some real thought and theme behind it. Like something Neil Gaiman might do as an obvious example. It needs a story framework that uses it as mythology/allegory instead of mixing it with the nuts and bolts technical details of science.
Agreed. While I _definitely_ don't rate Chbnall as a Doctor Who writer, I weirdly enjoyed his era A lot of that, I must say, is due to Jodie's total commitment to the (often) rubbish she was given to work with.
While I never said ‘don’t judge it until the end’, which is not a good take imo, I do like the vanquishers (and I really like flux overall). I love the visuals, which don’t get enough praise; I really like the triple doctor aspect, and I like the sontaran plan, which to me is the core if the store. I also love how the final flux is resolved with Passenger. That said, there are plenty of flaws, ala everything with Di, the scene with ‘time’, and how they handle the doctors memories. Also, I thought Vinder’s ending was okay - not particularly strong, but not bad. As for the universe destruction and lupari annihilation, i also wish theyd addressed that more, but they’re honestly not the biggest flaws to me (i say that about two third of the universe getting destroyed and forgotten about, which is literally fairly big, so I suppose it should bother me more). Oh well, I still like it.
For some people, the ending of any serialised story is the most important thing. For them, a weak ending that leaves several dangling threads or feels like a cheat of some kind (there's other ways an ending can disappoint) can wreck the bits they enjoyed. If you feel it was mostly good, that's terrific.
I felt like not opening the watch and giving it to the Tardis was the appropriate way to end to that story; it was about the Doctor reclaiming agency over her past, the closure there provides some emotional catharsis
On paper, I can agree with the concept. The problem was that the show never actually got me to buy that this was weighing on her so much that "letting it go" is going to have any impact. They played the effects of all this on her too low key for how short a period it actually runs.
The problem with the fob watch is once it was introduced it was always going to be an issue as long as it exists where it can or cant be opened; constantly hanging over the narrative. I'm not sure how to resolve it other than how it was, to bury it away - literally and figuratively - but it was disappointing to have it left unresolved in the background for ever and an eternity. It makes more sense when you listen to Chibnall's explanation, that he wanted to introduce more mystery back into the origins of the Doctor but first and foremost wanted an allegory for being an adopted child. From his perspective, he has told these stories, asked the questions but without intention to answer. I'm pretty sure there are COG videos in the past about the appeal and frustration of a mystery box and while this isn't one directly, it is similar in both its intrigue and annoyance.
@@CouncilofGeeks while I agree it (like other things) could have been focused on more, I wouldn’t exactly call it low-key. Her talk w/ Ryan + other comments in Revolution, opening s13 with her hunting Division, her desperate willingness to be torn apart in the time stream thingy in Once upon Time, the confrontation with Tecteun who uses the watch as a bargaining chip. For me, it was a decently-established character thread with payoff
@@CouncilofGeeks Flux should've placed more focus on Thirteen's quest to discover the truth about her past and the detrimental effect it has on her relationship (if you can call it that) with Yaz. This could then lead to her having an epiphany about her destructive her obsession has become, and ultimately make her deciding to drop the watch an appropriate and earned conclusion to her character arc. Of course, Chibnall would've had to cut loads of other material from this series in order for that to work, but I think doing so would've definitely resulted in a more concise and focussed story that actually gives the main characters an arc
True of RTD as well, IMO. With modern Who the finales have all tended to be spectacle-heavy and sloppy. Which has me rolling my eyes at the hints of "series arc" peppered throughout the series because I know what kind of payoff to expect.
@@voltijuice8576 season 1-3 rtd finales were amazing. Season 4 was nearly perfect but had a few issues for me. The end of time just wasn't as good as the waters of Mars. Rtd finales were across the board better than moffat. They had more emotional impact and made sense.
I tend to go for Moffat finales over RTD and Chibnall due to the focus on character relationships and the way the plots of his finales are quieter and more introspective affairs compared to how overblown RTD could be. Heaven Sent/Hell Bent is great in this way as the whole finale along with the series arc is designed around questioning the relationship between Clara and the Doctor.
@@Frey12 - I can still find the finales entertaining enough that I don't regret watching them. But not anything good enough to warrant the setup. RTD was upfront in saying that making his finales gushing emotional payoffs was more of a priority than plot or thematic depth. That's just not the relationship with Who that I've had. It's always been more a balance between eldritch weirdness and social commentary.
I genuinely love The Vanquishers, actually, flaws and all. I think splitting 13 into three carries it for me. I don't mind 13 putting the watch away. She has the watch and that's all matters for her. S13 from Flux to TPotD isn't a perfect series, but its one of the most fun ones of the show.
I think that two ad that god were meant to be hinduistbuddhist inspired cultists. in te first finale ther too was a theme of religion. Which would fit with that timelord dicision as scientists. Not that its really , even if he wanted hinduist inspired stuff religion in scince fiction is as interesting as easy to do wrong.Especially if you dont give t breathing room. Thdey needed to be at very least since the tart more obfious cultists to a mysterious time deity and the doctor having some meaning in some prophecy and some vague why they do it. or their past. And yeah that time deity thing how the cultists are wrong and how it could undo a lot of damaga is , wellyou got a dus ex machina use it . And something of n ominous "follow your path, i will see you bear your suffering for the sake of the universe" on the way. I mean if you want to have a religious them, make it obvious rligious at least or build it up,ok. But if it went with the doctor havin to carr and remember thing for thde unierse, like it could undo but make very clar her rember rin in exchange and be shown all. And that would need er actually fl guilt for division involved and her carry that . if that time god did tat, and te doctor were carrying tat big weigtht shown, it would be just the time god agnowledging that her catrryi the burden and respecting it.
I recognise the problems with this, but still find it a decent watch - I’d much rather watch it than the Timeless Children on the Battle of Ranskor Ov Kolos
My video on the issue of the BBC's support of Transphobia: ua-cam.com/video/aN4uc0HZrWE/v-deo.html
My video on the BBC's response to complaints of its reporting: ua-cam.com/video/skh81N5lcYY/v-deo.html
My short on why I'll continue to put up the note at the front of these: ua-cam.com/users/shortsHpwwzjzFXiE
Shaun's 1st video, which includes some additional confirmed information: ua-cam.com/video/b4buJMMiwcg/v-deo.html
Shaun’s 2nd video, which follows how the BBC is trying to dodge accountability for all of this: ua-cam.com/video/qfjTG6SVjmQ/v-deo.html
Shaun’s 3rd video, following him escalating his complaints: ua-cam.com/video/fRn1UZ4fhdE/v-deo.html
Shaun's 4th video, covering the BBC's response: ua-cam.com/video/3F7GW7Ro4OQ/v-deo.html
Laura Kate Dale's protest speech outside the BBC offices: ua-cam.com/video/hBjGnWkwAjI/v-deo.html
Even though there were both Classic Era & Modern Era Doctors that acted more cruel than Whittaker's Doctor, her Era will likely be remembered as the cruelest due to the decisions made mostly by Chibnall himself.
Props to Chibnall for continuing the theme of unnecessarily killing people and not properly acknowledging it by doing it to 90% of the universe.
Not only does he not acknowledge it, but he's already undone the Daleks being wiped out by the Flux by the time the next time trailer plays.
For me, the biggest issue is the way the Doctor enacts the plan for the Sontarans, Daleks and Cybermen to be completely wiped out by the Flux.
As you’re currently watching Trial of a Time Lord, one of the most powerful moments is, after the Sixth Doctor saves people from the Vervoids, that the Valeyard shocks him (and us) by accusing him of genocide.
Yet here the Doctor literally does it.
Three times over!
This is meant to be the same character who spent most of the Russell T Davies and Steven Moffat years haunted by the deaths they had caused during the Time War?
The same Doctor who disowned his Meta-Crisis version for destroying Davros and the Daleks.
Who just a few weeks before angrily chastised someone for blowing up Sontaran ships.
Yet here the Doctor wiped out three races with neither care, comment nor interrogation
I don't really quite get what is wrong with wiping out an entire race of literal space Nazis...
Wiped out the Racnoss in a blink of an eye.
@@booradley8895 Tricked Davros into destroying Skaro and wiping out millions of Daleks.
@@booradley8895 True.
But, it was shown to be a Very Bad Thing and Donna had to talk him down.
@@stevetayler9518 But still he killed innocent children. The 11th doctor made the human race into murderers by making them kill the silence on sight. The doctor may make a song and dance about not carrying a gun but has no qualms about killing in other ways.
One thing that I noticed recently is how passive 13 is in her finales
Ryan and Graham deal with Tim Shaw (that one at least makes sense)
Kosharmus defeats the master and cybermen
Swarm and azure kill tecteun
Time defeats swarm and azure
Vinder and Kate deal with the grand serpent
So many of the finales focus on the doctor and yet she mostly just stands around until the villains take care of each other. I just wish 13 got a little more agency in these. (Or at least one of the main companions)
"And then a new character shows up"
"And then they all died"
has such 5-year-old improv energy. Its what I would do AS A CHILD when telling stories in the car on holidays. Every time we hit a wall, something random and new, or everyone dies.
Its really frustrating because this is professional writers. Supposedly.
I agree that the interrogation between the Doctor and the Grand Serpent was the best/only good scene in this episode. Thirteen has always worked best in these moments where she plays up this mischievous persona gleefully annoying her enemies, in an ideal world the writers would've emphasised this aspect of her more and turned her into a Bugs Bunny-esque gadfly who cheerfully antagonises her opponents while running circles around them
The thing with Di is just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many many many more points like this throughout the whole of Flux - and I hadn't even been aware of this particular one until now. You just keep losing track of everything until you question your brain and wonder whether you missed something or whether it's indeed the messy plotting. The weird thing with this season is: A rewatch doesn't help you to untangle the story, in contrary, you come out even more befuddled than before.
This episode is the one that had me shouting at my screen, "Shut up! Oh my god please just shut up! Stop!" every time the Doctor spoke because literally all her dialogue is, "What? Where am I? A Sontaran ship? What's that doing there? Why am I here? How did that happen?" This was an excrutiating experience the first time I watched it.
So, to combine two of your points: Not only did Chibnall forget that, like, half the universe was destroyed, he also seems to have forgotten what the point of the Lupari was. Their function is to save humanity from the Flux. That's why Kavanista kidnapped Dan. So, where is the rest of humanity? Is there also a human aboard every one of those ships that the Sontarans jettisoned the Lupari out of? Because uh-oh! Now you've also killed all of humanity, too. But that doesn't happen, so what was the point of the Lupari? Why did Kavanista kidnap Dan? Why include this mechanic AT ALL if you refuse to engage with what it god damn means?!
Going from grief stricken speerches of Tennant and Capaldi to "I'm so sorry for what the sontarans did to your race" is writing quality whiplash
Even though there were both Classic Era & Modern Era Doctors that acted more cruel than Whittaker's Doctor, her Era will likely be remembered as the cruelest due to the decisions made mostly by Chibnall himself.
I feel like this aspect of Chibnall's era isn't as iconic (in a negative way) as its other various issues, like the 6th Doctor just straight up attempting murder on his companion is a lot more memorable than 13 running around and ignoring deaths
I see both Survivors of the Flux and The Vanquishers as one glorified two-part finale, and like Survivors of the Flux, The Vanquishers is also a complete mess that further shows why Flux, as a whole, didn't really work. Much like The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos and The Timeless Children, we have yet another weak Chibnall finale.
My hypothetical solution to the Lupari death: they did get jettisoned but Williamson uses the space-time tunnels to snatch and rescue them from space one by one (e.g. like 11 rescuing River from space in then opening for Time of Angels). It was probably never on the cards as making new costumes would have been extra cost, but it would have felt like there was more of a point to Williamson. And, you know, less dog death
COVID restrictions would probably have hampered that as well.
“I guess you lose track of two FRICKING THIRD OF THE UNIVERSE!” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 had me absolutely rolling around laughing that bit, Nathaniel/Vera. Oh you’re a genius. You’re like an American Doctor Who version of Jonathan Pie (please look him up he’s a political commentator comedian and he doesn’t pull punches either!) made my morning with that and your razor sharp critiques as always. You’re simply a genius. I’d love to know where you developed your skills as one of the best journalistic reviewers anywhere I’ve ever seen in my 49 years on the planet. Thank you always you beautiful human being ❤
I'm so sad to see Jodie gone and I'm really excited to see what Big Finish might do with her.
I feel like her seasons never really gave her a chance to shine, though the little glimpses we got to see of what she could've been were absolutely dazzling.
To me, hers will always be the compassionate-mad scientist-engineer Doctor...though when I say that to my boyfriend he just tells me that I'm only projecting what I want her to be onto what was effectively a blank slate.
Well, considering what Big Finish did with the Sixth Doctor...
@@nancyjay790and The Eigth Doctor.
@@nekusakura6748well 8 didn't have the screen time. But yes.
@LiamLAC I tend to see different things in different doctors...and while, yes, there are core traits that are defining to the Doctor, each version remixes them in different ways. So while every doctor has a sense of wonder about them, for some it's being awestruck at the capability of humanity for good or ill, for others there is an absolute reverence for history and important events...every doctor has every trait but at the same time, each doctor shines most brilliantly when certain traits are being exercised. For 13, the moments that stand out the most, where she felt the most like her own doctor, and not like she was being written as 10 or 11, were scenes like her forging her sonic screwdriver or how she actually showed pain at having her companions leave. You're right, there's nothing in her that isn't in the other doctors, but the moments where she felt real, and really felt like she mattered as her own entity were the ones where she was leaning into her compassion, making solutions to problems, or going down the rabbit hole of how the impossible could actually work
Thank you for the video, Vera!
It seems that the general opinion over the final of the Flux serial is an unearned ending. I love the Steven Moffat's era of the Doctor Who TV series, but, despite cool and clever storylines, even I admit that he and his writers did write themselves into a corner multiple times and botch some endings. In the case of Chris Chibnall's crew and the Flux, they did set up a lot stuff and were unable to develop proper some of it (again) because of the COVID-19 lockdown during the production of the serial. However, in the editing process, the fact of them keeping pointless plotlines, which they were at least aware about being unable to explore, feels like just stubbornness. Sometimes, the "less is more" approach could be better.
Good part of the universe being destroyed, Time itself being released, killing the Ravagers, being cryptic to the Doctor and doing... nothing else, and the Doctor throwing the stopwatch with their memories about the Division into the TARDIS. Considering how the main TV series will probably never address these plot points again, as viewers, we NEED to assume that they are just resolved for being a conclusion of the Flux storyline (yes, it is still bad storytelling). The only hope for them being addressed again would be in the expanded media, such as audio dramas, comic books and novels.
I literally finished marathoning Flux last week and I STILL don't know if the entirety/majority of the Universe gets restored.
Also good example of Chibnall forgetting about what happens in his own scripts in this episode...
The Universe is pretty huge. Most likely the first Flux wave only got a fraction of it. Besides, wouldn't be the first time parts of the Universe got destroyed without that being resolved. Logopolis.
It’s gonna be addressed in the 60th
Yeah, at the end they all hop in the TARDIS to travel the universe and I was just left thinking 'WHAT universe?!'. And why are there even stars or the Moon still in the sky, if the Flux ended at Earth? Such a mess of a story. 🙄🙄
Chib: and then Grand Serpent goes after Kate
everyone: why?
Chib: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
One part that slightly annoyed me, back when I watched it, was how Diane treated Dan after he found her. I get she's been through a traumatic experience, but none of it wad Dan's fault. He couldn't have known about it. That being said, I remember them talking again in the Sea Devils episode, so at least they had a happy ending together :)
This episode was such an anticlimax to a series I had for the most part really enjoyed, there's still stuff that is great but it feels like it just fizzled out. Like, our big bad villains just get turned to dust by someone we met twenty seconds ago waving their hand, and I still have no idea why Vinder or the Grand Serpent are even here! When it aired I was baffled by the jolly let's go have more adventures in the completely decimated universe ending. I mean, yeah you saved Earth but if almost the whole world got wiped out but my town was fine, I'd still be pretty flippin' horrified!
That was exactly my reaction, I also wondered whether Chibnall just forgot about wiping out most of the universe
She is not a bad doctor, Chibnall is just a bad writer
When she’s given something to work with she’s fantastic. Unfortunately Chibnall insisted on writing 60% of the run on his own, getting his grubby little paws all over everything
@chriso5507 At times, it also felt like Chibnall was more passionate about writing for the Master than the Doctor.
@@nekusakura6748 Indeed, but it's easier to write baddies than goodies. As someone with a modest but extensive acting history, it's also easier to play villains than heroes.
Looking back, I think I liked this ending more than I do now because more got wrapped up than I expected, and I had elements that invested me (Jericho, Serpent). While I don't hate it, or Flux, it is a mediocre ending to a very mixed bag of a miniseries.
Swarm and Azure's end feels fairly solid to me, with the general 'be careful what you wiah for' theme, as Time ends up not being evil. But there's so much that gets unexplained in other parts of the narrative that I can't fully trust that the read I got from it is what they were meanings to imply. I do think that Swarm being ok with dying makes sense to his character, so that's a good moment, but it highlights how vague their ideology is (beyond 'time hates space' and 'death is time').
As for the Grand Serpent, the lack of confirmation as to why he's doing what he's doing hurts his role in this episode. Him working with the Sontarans makes sense, and weakening Earth's defences for a payday also generally works, but it doesn't fit with how he originally was portrayed. He went from cruel functionary to a guy who lost everything but landed on his feet with a plan, to a lucky jerk who didnt think through. I liked GS being sent to the End of Time/Universe by Vinder, bur it feels like yet another villain being kept alive just because Chibs thinks he or one of the other writers might bring him back. He does it so often it ends up feeling self-congatulatory.
I can't believe Chibnall forgot he destroyed the universe, what an absolute hack. Unless he was just trying to make things as difficult for rtd out of spite.
From Wikipedia:
Hanlon's razor is an adage or rule of thumb that states, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
Hey Vera, another great video & I LOVE the passion you have in this. So much! I’m not sure if you’ve ever touched on this (please forgive me if you have!) but I was given a copy of “doctor who a short story history of everyone” for my birthday and it seems to be “confirming” the timeless child story and the Gallifrey being destroyed (again)… is there still a way that the timeless child can be retconned in the new stories because I *hate* the timeless child story with a passion.
Also - the serpent was played fantastically. It seems that actor has been playing a heck of a lot of villains and he seems to relish in the task. (Line of duty and “life and death in the warehouse” - he was terrifying in the latter!)
Oh I'm sure there are ways to retcon or undo it. Though speaking for myself, I'd rather everybody ignores both and pretends they didn't happen.
@@CouncilofGeeks that would be the ideal! I think I deleted it from my mind only to have it in black & white in the book
I love the fact you have three great set up's at the end of this episode that were never capitalised on.
1) The majority of the universe was destroyed by the Flux, and The Doctor was complicit in the complete genocide of the Daleks, the Cybermen, and the Sontarans in order to protect the Earth - surely that's going to have ramifications later in, no wait we'll just have the Daleks (who've inexplicably survived) use this as a motive for revenge in the next episode.
The Doctor throws the fob watch into the TARDIS, saying she may need it one day - setting up that The Doctor will need the Fob later, otherwise she'd have just thrown it into the Flux or the sun - never brought up again.
Time is a malevolent entity that knows death is coming for The Doctor - never appears again.
I'm torn on the opening comments about the need to stick the landing in order to feel like the entire thing was worth it. There is a large part of me that agrees, that knows of several things (including the aforementioned Game of Thrones, which was already falling apart as it got to the end, but the flub made those stumbles that much worse in hindsight) where it is definitely true...and yet, there have been some things that I'm not so sure, where the ending wasn't right or even felt like the weakest part but I don't regret the time I spent with it (Succession, for a recent reference, felt like something that missed the mark on its capstone but still delivered some fantastic moments, including in that final season). Sometimes, the experience does feel like it validates itself - and sometimes it doesn't, and keeps punting that to the end, putting more pressure on that finale/conclusion, and that's what happened here with Flux (it just didn't provide a good enough, coherent enough, solid enough experience until the point that it could get away with a lacklustre wrap up).
I can understand the comparison to Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang, but I feel it's a little flawed. In the case of that double episode finale, it was designed to be a two-parter coming after a mostly episodic season (that had a plot thread that ran through it) and Big Bang's meant to basically be an extremely extended third act to Pandorica Opens' first two acts (lead in to the arrival of aliens, second act concludes with the Doctor in the Pandorica) rather than two fully separate episodes (though I can understand the reasoning, as I said). In the case of The Vanquishers, it's actually designed as the final part of a long story that has both attempted to deliver a big story in multiple parts (Flux does not work on an episode-to-episode basis) but also still tried to be episodic (it failed).
I do agree with most other points, including that the Doctor does get a few moments to shine (like with the snake guy), though I still don't like Swarm & Azure (not sure I agree they're well acted, but that may be on the writing/directing).
The only good thing about this Episode Is Jodie's performance because goddamn was she showing off some fine acting chops, just a shame there was no sustenance too her performance from the writing stand point :(
10:44 Those primal Di screams really did my blood pressure no favours!
The whole "quest" to learn about The Timeless Child was literally a waste of everyone's time. What's the point of doing a search for answers when you're just going to end up throwing the answers away without even looking at them?
I watched it recently too. Really enjoyed it. All the points you bring up are broadly right but its still ridiculous anount of fun. The one thing eith never seeing lupari or however its spelt is purely money. They couldnt afford to do more than one!
I do understand that they couldn't afford to make more Lupari costumes. However, by trying to make us care about the wiping out of a group of people we haven't seen the show highlights that fact. It's an unforced error.
Di could have believed she was insignificant but the story should have gone on to show her and us why she isn't
Unrelated to the topic here, but your hair and make up looks stunning in this video 💖
I liked Jericho I wish there was more of him
Big Finish could bring him back for Audio Dramas set between 'Village of The Angels' and 'Survivors of The Flux'.
@@nekusakura6748 Keven r mcnally has said he would love to come back in other media so there is possibility
I had completely forgoten the doctor splits in three
Covid did hamper this season, but that doesn't excuse all the threads that went nowhere, storylines that are just dropped and the whole thing just being a chaotic mess.
So much wasted potential...
I haven't watched Flux since broadcast so I only have a vague memory left, well more of an impression really. Overall it was pretty fun despite its (universe destroying shaped) flaws and tied to the TC stuff which I'm non too fond off (wont get into another TC debate....). I don't think this review was too harsh as it highlights that there were some good moments in the episode (and series) which I agree does have a bitter sweet note in that it shows glimpses of what might have been *sigh*.
Is it bad that I was chuckling and giggling through most of this video though, at the constant exasperated facial expressions and noises!! 😂😂 I know its a review and it was pointing out the negatives at times but it just really put a smile on my face, too funny!
i do agree that the overall story of "The Flux" needed at least 2 more episodes...the pacing was rushed and that cause all the story plots to fall short
If you ever do the Nitpick Rants again, please use 10:33 in the intro!
I always thought it would've been a better ending if the Doctor created a new universe by using the Divisions technology, a universe which is identical to the current one prior to Flux and the Doctor uses the Passenger to transport all surviving life to the new universe, leaving Swarm and Azure to die. This way, although there's a whole new universe, the Doctor couldn't stop Flux and it successfully destroyed the universe, all the Doctor could do was save the people inside the universe.
So... The Big Bang with extra steps?
@@CouncilofGeeks A bit, but not rebooting the universe. Everyone would remember the events of the Flux, the sontaran invasion, being in the passenger. I feel it would make the Flux also a lot more of a threat, it would truly make it an unstoppable force that not even the Doctor could stop. It's not even like it's something that would need any new ideas or anything, it was all set up in previous episodes. I actually thought this was how it was going to end before the finale aired.
Also, if this was something that the Doctor realizes she could do at the start of the episode, it could cut down on a lot of the episodes problem with too many things to fix. The Doctor wouldn't have to stop the Sontarans, the daleks or the cybermen anymore, all she would need to do is evacuate all the humans and other innocent survivors and leave the sontarans, the daleks and the cybermen to fight over the Earth she had already evacuated. The entire episode's plot could've been cut down to primarily stopping Swarm and Azure and getting control of the Passenger to do this. And with Tecteun dead, she could easily use the Division's tech without anyone stopping her.
I kinda want the Time entity to return, just as a Watcher or Eternity like character. They're only there to drop cryptic hints.
Just so long as they name the episode "For the Time Being"
@@voltijuice8576 Ha!
IMHO, the very fact that Chibnall came up with the idea of personifying Time shows his unsuitability. to the Science Fiction genre.
@@ftumschk - IMO Who has always been more on the science fantasy side of things. Although I do like when it skews science fiction. There have already been attempts at personifying concepts like the Guardians, Time's Champion/Death's Champion, etc which I think don't usually work unless there's some real thought and theme behind it. Like something Neil Gaiman might do as an obvious example. It needs a story framework that uses it as mythology/allegory instead of mixing it with the nuts and bolts technical details of science.
@@voltijuice8576 Agreed... but time as a "being" goes too far. That's more like "Doctor Woo-Woo" than Doctor Who.
this is off topic but i love your subtle trans and genderfluid colored nails
Unrelated to any of this, but Jodie looks exponentially better with the darker coat that Time has when it wears her face
This episode is like something out of Animal Collective's back catalogue, it has its moments but I kind of want to throw up after watching it
3 Poor Seasons Finales for Jodie Whitaker's Doctor.
Was Chibnall's run an attempt at bad Season Finale Conect 4?
You look extra beautiful today Vera!
yeah, I really didn't understand the Di thing, but I loved her character. She was pretty cool.
I would have really like for the Doctor to say, when they dropped it into the Tardis, to keep it from me (the watch) until I really need it.
You shouldn't have to work sooo hard to find something good in a series. 13 was awful
While this is definitely a mess, it's at least a fun mess.
Yeah, I prefer fun messes to bad ones! That’s why I love Hitman Absolution so much. It’s a campy exploitative mess of a game!
Agreed. While I _definitely_ don't rate Chbnall as a Doctor Who writer, I weirdly enjoyed his era A lot of that, I must say, is due to Jodie's total commitment to the (often) rubbish she was given to work with.
@@ftumschk Thankfully we have Big Finish, they’ll give Jodie her stories.
the last season of game of thrones😡😡
While I never said ‘don’t judge it until the end’, which is not a good take imo, I do like the vanquishers (and I really like flux overall). I love the visuals, which don’t get enough praise; I really like the triple doctor aspect, and I like the sontaran plan, which to me is the core if the store. I also love how the final flux is resolved with Passenger. That said, there are plenty of flaws, ala everything with Di, the scene with ‘time’, and how they handle the doctors memories. Also, I thought Vinder’s ending was okay - not particularly strong, but not bad. As for the universe destruction and lupari annihilation, i also wish theyd addressed that more, but they’re honestly not the biggest flaws to me (i say that about two third of the universe getting destroyed and forgotten about, which is literally fairly big, so I suppose it should bother me more). Oh well, I still like it.
For some people, the ending of any serialised story is the most important thing. For them, a weak ending that leaves several dangling threads or feels like a cheat of some kind (there's other ways an ending can disappoint) can wreck the bits they enjoyed. If you feel it was mostly good, that's terrific.
I felt like not opening the watch and giving it to the Tardis was the appropriate way to end to that story; it was about the Doctor reclaiming agency over her past, the closure there provides some emotional catharsis
On paper, I can agree with the concept. The problem was that the show never actually got me to buy that this was weighing on her so much that "letting it go" is going to have any impact. They played the effects of all this on her too low key for how short a period it actually runs.
The problem with the fob watch is once it was introduced it was always going to be an issue as long as it exists where it can or cant be opened; constantly hanging over the narrative. I'm not sure how to resolve it other than how it was, to bury it away - literally and figuratively - but it was disappointing to have it left unresolved in the background for ever and an eternity. It makes more sense when you listen to Chibnall's explanation, that he wanted to introduce more mystery back into the origins of the Doctor but first and foremost wanted an allegory for being an adopted child. From his perspective, he has told these stories, asked the questions but without intention to answer.
I'm pretty sure there are COG videos in the past about the appeal and frustration of a mystery box and while this isn't one directly, it is similar in both its intrigue and annoyance.
@@CouncilofGeeks while I agree it (like other things) could have been focused on more, I wouldn’t exactly call it low-key. Her talk w/ Ryan + other comments in Revolution, opening s13 with her hunting Division, her desperate willingness to be torn apart in the time stream thingy in Once upon Time, the confrontation with Tecteun who uses the watch as a bargaining chip. For me, it was a decently-established character thread with payoff
@@CouncilofGeeks Flux should've placed more focus on Thirteen's quest to discover the truth about her past and the detrimental effect it has on her relationship (if you can call it that) with Yaz. This could then lead to her having an epiphany about her destructive her obsession has become, and ultimately make her deciding to drop the watch an appropriate and earned conclusion to her character arc. Of course, Chibnall would've had to cut loads of other material from this series in order for that to work, but I think doing so would've definitely resulted in a more concise and focussed story that actually gives the main characters an arc
Moffat finales were generally pretty terrible. The seasons were hit and miss, but his finales were generally so lack luster and uninteresting.
True of RTD as well, IMO. With modern Who the finales have all tended to be spectacle-heavy and sloppy. Which has me rolling my eyes at the hints of "series arc" peppered throughout the series because I know what kind of payoff to expect.
@@voltijuice8576 season 1-3 rtd finales were amazing. Season 4 was nearly perfect but had a few issues for me. The end of time just wasn't as good as the waters of Mars. Rtd finales were across the board better than moffat. They had more emotional impact and made sense.
I tend to go for Moffat finales over RTD and Chibnall due to the focus on character relationships and the way the plots of his finales are quieter and more introspective affairs compared to how overblown RTD could be. Heaven Sent/Hell Bent is great in this way as the whole finale along with the series arc is designed around questioning the relationship between Clara and the Doctor.
@@Frey12 - I can still find the finales entertaining enough that I don't regret watching them. But not anything good enough to warrant the setup. RTD was upfront in saying that making his finales gushing emotional payoffs was more of a priority than plot or thematic depth.
That's just not the relationship with Who that I've had. It's always been more a balance between eldritch weirdness and social commentary.
02:32
That’s not fine
They are wrong.
😅
Doctor who flux Halloween 👻🎃
I genuinely love The Vanquishers, actually, flaws and all. I think splitting 13 into three carries it for me. I don't mind 13 putting the watch away. She has the watch and that's all matters for her. S13 from Flux to TPotD isn't a perfect series, but its one of the most fun ones of the show.
I think that two ad that god were meant to be hinduistbuddhist inspired cultists. in te first finale ther too was a theme of religion. Which would fit with that timelord dicision as scientists.
Not that its really , even if he wanted hinduist inspired stuff religion in scince fiction is as interesting as easy to do wrong.Especially if you dont give t breathing room. Thdey needed to be at very least since the tart more obfious cultists to a mysterious time deity and the doctor having some meaning in some prophecy and some vague why they do it. or their past.
And yeah that time deity thing how the cultists are wrong and how it could undo a lot of damaga is , wellyou got a dus ex machina use it . And something of n ominous "follow your path, i will see you bear your suffering for the sake of the universe" on the way.
I mean if you want to have a religious them, make it obvious rligious at least or build it up,ok.
But if it went with the doctor havin to carr and remember thing for thde unierse, like it could undo but make very clar her rember rin in exchange and be shown all. And that would need er actually fl guilt for division involved and her carry that . if that time god did tat, and te doctor were carrying tat big weigtht shown, it would be just the time god agnowledging that her catrryi the burden and respecting it.
I recognise the problems with this, but still find it a decent watch - I’d much rather watch it than the Timeless Children on the Battle of Ranskor Ov Kolos
I mean... sure? But that's grading on a very generous curve.
I can't believe I have no memory of anything in this episode 🥲