Once Upon Time - Take Two Doctor Who Review
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
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"Quite a bit better than I remember without it being good"
What a brilliant back-handed complement!
This episode reminds me of the GLaDOS quote - *"This test DOES require some explanation. Let me give you the fast version: [incomprehensible]"*
Lol.
Yup that’s a perfect comparison
Fuck I love portal so much. We need more comedy games
@@WaitWhatWho Portal 2 is one of my favorite pieces of media of all time honestly. It just fires on all cylinders
I'd say that this episode is when the plot dissolves
I don’t even remmeber this episode happening. Like I couldn’t tell you a single thing about it, which says a lot
"The plot congeals." --Possibly Roger Ebert.
Yep, Chibnall seems totally unable to connect the things that need connecting. If you gave him a pencil and a dot-to-dot drawing book, he'd hand it back to you half an hour later, unmarked, and say "Yep, I like it."
Fabulous analogy!
A lot of the episodes he penned for his run on Doctor Who feel like first drafts.
@@ftumschk ++blush++ Thank you :)
@@nekusakura6748 They do, don't they? An extra edit (or two), preferably by someone who wasn't Chibnall, could have worked wonders.
In some cases they literally were. Battle of Raskor Av Kolos never got a second pass because he was helping on everybody else’s scripts.
While I personally really did not like ths episode, there is one moment I absolutely love in it, and that's Vinder's reaction to the TARDIS.
It's such a different reaction than we usually get, and it feels perfectly in character. It's a relatively small moment in this huge story, but I still really like it.
Jacob Anderson's acting sells that scene.
@@nekusakura6748honestly Jacob is the redeeming feature of this whole thing for me. I love Vinder's story because of him
I appreciate the use of the Angel in this episode because I feel like while each era of Doctor Who has had its own style of sci-fi horror, the Chibnall seasons just aren't ever all that creepy, generally speaking. That car subplot felt legitimately tense and well paced
Extra thumbs-up for "Diabolus ex machina" :)
They could’ve put a name drop of Bel in a previous episode, then leave the Bel portion of this episode unchanged. The people who paid attention will be rewarded for it while the rest figures it out at the end.
Once Upon Time is still kind of an incoherent mess, but I do admire its ambition for doing something different.
Thank you for the video, Vera!
Conceptually, I understand what Chris Chibnall was trying to do in this episode with the timestream. It sometimes works when showing the backstories of Vinder and the Fugitive Doctor with the Ravagers. But other times, it feels like a slideshow. And the way how the Doctor fixes the problem in the timestream was too easy. The intentions of the Ravagers here are also too ambiguous. Were they trying to release Time itself and the "blue mites"? I would prefer the Ravagers just wanting to torment the Doctor and her companions, while showing how they meet her before.
The problem is also how inconsistent the flux event itself is portrayed during the serial. At first, the viewers supposed to believe that it is an unstoppable space cloud which annihilates everything on its path. But later, the flux just "cracks" planets or destroys their populations. And what the "blue mites" supposed to be and why are they different from the flux? Before the conclusion of the serial, my original theory was the flux targets matter/space and the "blue mites" consume time.
I honestly wish the story around the Grand Serpent and UNIT had gotten more screentime. It gave a decently satisfying answer to something that had bothered me from Jodie's first new year's special. Why would a country that gets attacked by aliens on a semi-regular basis defund the organization that protects them from alien attacks. Having that be part of an alien's plot makes a lot of sense. Plus I'm always in favour of stories that give us more time with Kate Stewart and Osgood.
Honestly, the idea of an alien threat infiltrating and sabotaging UNIT from the very beginning of the organization's history could have and probably should have been the main premise of an entire story. It was wasted and underdeveloped here.
@@kylejones8289 Yeah. That could easily have been a solid stand alone story if it had time to breathe.
I've only seen the Flux episodes once, when they first came out on TV. Even though, usually when you do a Take Two review and you talk about the episode I can remember what the plot of the episode was about.
I still have no memory of what the plot of this episode was, even after watching your Take Two review.
If they had just used the Grand Serpent for this episode, I would have said he was one of the highlights of Flux.
What explanation we get for why we have things surviving the flux comes in Episode 5 from Tecteoun, where she basically says that after the Dr hit the Flux with the heart of the Tardis, the Flux got screwed up and stopped deleting things properly, which is why she was going to use the Flux a second time to wipe out everything that is left. That explanation is backfil in Episode 5 though, so for this episode we are just left to be confused.
Hahaha, basically you are channelling Sam from LOTR, "we have to believe, that there is some good in these stories, and they're worth watching!"
Completely forgot this episode existed! On rewatch I appreciated more the use of stand-ins to get around the Covid filming restrictions, but there should have been a few (more) establishing shots of the "real" people to make it stick.
I love this episode. It's my second fave in flux behind village of angels. It's such a great episode.
Speaking of “oh, just call them the Reapers, if that’s what they basically are”…
Passenger = walking Miniscope (c.f. Carnival of Monsters)
This was the episode I started to get worried about flux back then 😭
I feel the episode would've worked better if they revealed that Bel was Vinder's partner at the very start of the episode, not just because it would give us a reason to care about her and her story, but it would've made for a pretty decent and punchy reveal to take us into the opening credits (because the actual lead-in we get with this episode is bizarrely weak)
I think Swarm and Azura are just taking advantage of being released from prison and were used as a distraction. It's nice to learn some stuff about Vinder.
Engagement for the engagement god!
My fave intro of yours 😂😂
Having watched your review, I now have a better idea as to what Flux would've been like if it had had a larger episode count and been a bit less serialised.
It's essentially less about the Flux and Tecteuin itself, but more the story of how all these different villains co-opted the Flux to their own advantage, and with more space to breathe and some better writing they might have pulled that off. Especially if there'd also been some one-offs sprinkled in there.
But when you serialise something, and do it to that few episodes, everything needs to be snappier and connect. It just feels like Chibs took a mystery box plot and tried to cram it into the serialised format. And that doesn't really work.
I theorized that the Grand Serpent would become the main villain guy later and I still contend that would have been better. If we throw out one villain it shouldn’t be him!
After watching this review, I think I need to reewatch this episode. I don't fully remember it, but in my memories I thought the actors did a good job, but that the writing was all over the place. Your comments makes me wanna see the backstory of Vinder amongst other stuff that I've forgot since watching this episode last time.
This one is definitely a good rewatch episode. I enjoyed it first time round. My second favourite of the story after Village.
To me bel’s connection to vinder isn’t really that well established cause she is trying to find him since her introduction but she keeps talking to a device that looks like a compact version of the EmojiBots from the season 10 episode smile but her importance to any of this isn’t true brought up and I have her the rumor she was pregnant but there was no proof of through the passage of time that would have happened during the flux
I like this one, but it does go to show that Flux would have been better if not for Covid. In fact, this is perhaps the most "Covid" Episode of the bunch, production wise.
Hot take but this was actually the episode of Flux I enjoyed the most. Mainly because I enjoyed the oddness and the lean into the altered memories sequence. I really wish Flux had leant into that more rather than devolving into being a manufactured death cloud.
I think the originality and potential of this episode got me more positive but obviously when the whole project is laid out in plain sight none of it really works as a whole for me.
Also don't get me wrong this episode had some big problems (including some dreadful dialogue) but so did all the other episodes in my opinion. I think this marked the last episode where I left feeling optimistic!
You've got me wondering what its like to stream all 6 as a movie rather than individual so you've inspired me to rewatch it.
(I found it a mess, but have it on dvd for editing-challenge purposes)
Trying to take a positive position is a good idea, Chibnall had a lot of interesting ideas, just too many of them merged with covid and a refusal to cut stuff (if he already did then why did so much remain...)
I get it if didn't bother anyone else, there's so many stuff here that this is very small, but I hate that the angel can just get into the TARDIS. Same with the judoon, last season, like shut up, no. The angels are just very fast and zap you back in time, they can't teleport and stuff. If they could just get in, they would've in Blink. Like it's established they need the key, like everyone else, they need to use the door. Like why
That was a good cold open from you. I especially like that every 13th Doctor episode starts with you sonicing the audience madly.
I still dislike this episode. It’s slightly better on a rewatch because it’s easier to understand, but I think it’s a failure standing on its own because I only like it now that I understand what’s actually happening. I should be able to enjoy it the first time.
So here's the thing - Did anyone notice that Swarm was noticeably a different actor AND different makeup than in other episodes? WHY exactly... I was expecting this to be explained maybe he was a timelord and he regenerated to Swarm 2.0 who was in all the other episodes. Was the actor not available and recast for 1 episode? If so why was the makeup totally different?
Another thing I was expecting to be explained but never was.
There were rumors that Captain Jack was meant to be in Flux. I’ve always wondered if Bel’s Story was meant to be Jack’s Story. There are moments that feel very Jack-ish in it.
Would make sense, Titan Comics cancelled a tie-in comic that explained what Jack was up to during 'War of The Sontarans' due to the Barrowman controversy - which seems a bit random if Jack wasn't intended to appear throughout the season.
yaasssssss it totally is amazing for portraying dreams... the only story to rival it is episode 1 of Edge of Destruction.
I quite like this one after disliking it upon broadcast, but I feel like if this had been a Moffat episode it would have been an absolute classic.
If Moffat was writing this, the dialogue would end up being a lot more lyrical and poetic, which would match quite well with the story's dreamlike feel, whereas the best Chibnall can come up with is "your beautiful as-yet-unborn child"
Weirdly enough, this was actually my favourite episode of Flux besides Village of the Angels. The dreamlike way the story is told does a lot to keep you intrigued.
I have a personal theory about Vinder and his backstory in this episode. I suspect that his characterization was at least partially inspired by Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, the US Army officer who testified against Trump during his first impeachment hearings in 2019. (I know a _lot_ has happened since then, so if you're hazy and need a refresher: Trump's _first_ impeachment came as a result of allegations that he had been trying to pressure Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy into launching an investigation of Hunter Biden by withholding a $400 million aid package that had been mandated for Ukraine by Congress.) The whole idea of a whistleblower speaking truth to a corrupt power rang very familiar to me at the time when this episode first aired, and I don't feel like the similar names are a coincidence. The impeachment hearings also would've been fresh in the news right around the time that Series 13 was being developed.
This episode was better in the first time
Yeah while I didn't find Flux made sense overall, I did sometimes enjoy how it conveyed a sense of... well, flux: shifting between various fluctuating, indeterminate timelines. It's an interesting enough idea, and if they'd stripped it back a bit and explained it more by the end, they could've made something of it.
Once, Upon Time is a prime example of the old axiom: the difference between fiction and reality is fiction has to make sense. By playing with people's expectations, Chibnall cleverly crafts a chapter of the story that answers some questions, asks new ones and leaves several unanswered. Not everything needs explanation, certainly not straight away and, in some cases, not all all. Meaning can be inferred from the information given, but full explanations would run the risk of insulting the audience's intelligence, by and large.
"Chibnall cleverly crafts" give him too much credit, imho. I'm certainly not a hater or an NMD type, but I find him to be one of the clumsiest and least gifted writers in the show's history.
@@ftumschk Yes, I have to agree. Although I'm giving Andrew a "like" for "the difference between fiction and reality is fiction has to make sense." which is rather good!
@@MarkMichalowski I gave Andrew a "like" too, for the same reason... plus I always enjoy his posts :)
To be honest, this episode and Legend of the sea Devils are the most depressing Doctor Who episodes I've watched, good for you if you like them, but I was pretty much sighing all the way through this one (I don't like Flux very much overall) I can't really describe it, it just feels disposable tv to me, I didn't mind Chib's era when it started (especially coming off the Moffat years) but man did it lose steam near the end. And the less said about the other episode, the better. When we watched it as a family on broadcast, we agreed that it was terrible (I was actually making the episode a bit more tolerable doing funny things while the bore fest was going on). so yeah