That's what I always felt too, though it mightve been something in the past, the current form as I see it is good to develop movement and flexibility and possibly even awareness of your body - all of which will help you in your study of another martial art or fighting style
Taichi has been central in my life for 14 years. Went several times to China to train fulltime, been teaching for 4 years. Never thought any of this would help me directly in a fight, which is why I also do bjj and muai thai! I know so many taichi people that are completely delusional though, so many that are convinced they have mystical fighting skills...
Right ? I noticed this nonsense thirty years ago..But even today with UA-cam and all those MMA videos for all to see, How can people stil believe this ? These people ruin the Tsi chi tradition. I started with Tai chi after when I got to older, to fight, and to revelalidate , Hopefully I keep doomg for the rest of my life, But going to Tai chi to learn street fighting is like going to a fencing school to learn boxing, It just doesn't make sense,
@@spiritualanarchist8162 Well, people still believe in a lot of crazy stuff... Some people take the old testament literally, despite plenty of evidence that shows that it's most likely inaccurate... Why shouldn't there be people who buy into the whole Tai Chi thing? Especially in China, they seem to really push the propaganda and the country is kinda on media lockdown, so yeah...
@@KitsyX Yes, I am old enough to know people believes can be very differnt & nonsenical ..What is insanity to one, can be the absolute truth to another. however most of these believes can't be challenced outside the realm of conjecture. . Religion ( for example) won't be tested until we die. Even flat earthers can refuse to look at data...etc,etc Now a Tai chi teacherhowever can go to a UFC (or whatever ) fight (or just watch tv or video) and see what he will face , before stepping in the ring and getting his ass *kicked.I don;t see people who ride a mopet challenge a Tour de france winner for a bike race. Or someone who jogs every morning challenge atheletes for a running contest, This weird stuff only seems to happen with martial arts. ( P.S my English spelling control is off, so sorry for the bad grammar)
However, you can train to use Tai Chi Chuan for combat. To do Western-style Tai Chi which is more or less the same as ballroom dancing, and then think you can fight is laughable.
@@StimParavane Tere is o 'western'' style 'How is the combat style called ? I never seen a tai ci style that is a pure combat style in itself , only as an additon with for example Pak me pai Wu-shu,.
The 80's and 90's (pre UFC days) had the best bullshit martial artists advertising in Black Belt & Inside Kung Fu magazine. Al Colangelo (who could knock out Mike Tyson with 1 punch), James Patrick Lacy (who could break coconuts with his chi), John La Tourette (hit you 18 times in 1 second), George Dillman, along with all the "official trainers of the Navy SEALS and Army Special Forces" guys. Most of these guys quietly disappeared when MMA appeared on the scene.
@@justasleepparalysisdemonwi8719 Yeah, that's him. had to google, Juan Raphael Dante. Guess they didn't mention him in the video. Because I remember all my old Marvel comics kept talking about his 'death punch'.
It's true that Martial Arts, like everything else, is subject to Sturgeon's Law, but don't forget that MMA in 2022 is a sport with weight classes, rules, protective gear and mats, where the fighters stop every couple minutes to drink water. It was custom designed to make grappling viable, which is why nearly all of the groundfighting happens against the cage. I've been in plenty of fights but never against anyone smaller or weaker so I don't even know what you modern MMA guys are talking about. Gracie can talk about real martial art b/c he fought all comers of any weight with no time limits and as few rules as the commissions would allow. But modern MMA can only talk about sport conducted in safe spaces. With two pounds of steel in my hands I can take most people on the planet, and any fat guy with a 38 special can take me without getting out of their chair. That's reality.
wing chun was what bruce lee practice but in his days school fought each other as part of training. it was also how he figure out that there was something wrong with it so he started researching including studying boxing
i didn't know who you were talking about at first but as i finished reading your comment it switched cameras and i realized immediately, i was looking at a lab baby cross of matt Damon and Henry Rollins
Most real chinese martial arts was destroyed through out the many periods of changes china went through. From philosophy, to medicine, to martial arts, to its architecture and ethics...China hasn't been able to hold onto anything because various tyrannical governments oppressed anything that could possibly challenge their reign. Even Confucius philosophy was persecuted, in part, because it taught loyalty to family above all else, including government. Very sad for a civilization that had so much advanced tech for its day, from writing on paper, to gun powder, to pasta...
Yup , martial artist has been widely slaughtered , and actual shaolin temple has been burnt 3 times. Saying Tai Chi doesn't work , is like saying you can't eat food with chopsticks. If no one continue to learn how to use chopsticks , we might thought that must be a weapon of some sort. Just take a look at the weapon variations that ancient chinese created , and no ancient martial fighting arts ? The problem is that people don't understand what they are doing and saying. It's like for a random guy to play out with chemical reaction that doesn't really know what he is doing , then of course either will not work or things will be out of control. Even with any fighting arts that you say is 100% useful nowadays , trying that out without understand will either won't work or you are waiting for injury , it's the same.
@@alexandero9936 he has to physically send the video files to friends outside of China for them to upload it. The Chinese firewall won't allow him to access UA-cam himself. He's not allowed to take trains or plains or buses either
I'm a former amateur boxer who got hooked on taiji because I was lucky to get a bad-ass, irreverent instructor who understood what Shakespeare called "timing, distance and proportion." So, I've been doing taiji for more than 20 years in China and the U.S. Mr. Rogan is right, and wrong. Taiji's roots were in fighting. it was developed by veterans of pre-gunpowder war. Mr. Rogan and others are right that it has lost its way. but that's not due to the art -- it's the fault of the wacky practitioners and bullshit artists. It all gets down to the purpose. The big problem these days (and this goes for wing Chun guys as well) is you get too many guys who train in these gentleman's agreement kinda places. where no one's actually ever stood toe-to-toe in anger. where no one throws a real punch. no one brings a determined attack. it's all slow and choreographed. and everyone starts to believe they're actually accomplishing something. They lack the rigorous striking and conditioning - the harder side of taiji (it's yin and yang, right?). Mr. Rogan is right when he says they suffer from a form of mental illness. (The Chinese joke about such people - "tai ji Feng zi" - "tai ji nut case") A flat-earth emperor with no clothes. However, Mr. Rogan is off the mark a bit when he generalizes about the art. The lunacy is not the fault of the art. The same thing has happened in all the martial arts, even BJJ. See the movies starting to joke about the guy trying to tap out in a real fight? Again, the problem is not the art -- it's the method. the purpose. Back in the day -- after I came back from Shanghai where I trained a year and a half several hours every day with a body guard taiji specialist (I know, who hasn't, right) -- I worked out with a few guys down South and we used to head down to the MMA training gym, get our humility on, and take our taiji out for a test drive. Great days, good people. Some of the taiji worked. and some of it didn't at all and had to be re-thought or trashed. Kinda like any martial art. Kinda like any skill. Cheers.
I realize I’m replying to a very old comment, but I was hoping to ask if you would recommend Taiji for reconditioning my joints. I got into a bout of depression and neglected my body for 6 years after being fairly fit my whole life. Now I’m stiff as a board and keep getting injured when I try to train like I used to. Thanks in advance.
@@MartynLees just try it and see if it hurts or helps your joints. Also you can't train like you did 6 years ago if you are not conditioned for it. Good luck, have fun.
I love you man. When I spar, I know everything my opponent's are going to do but none of them have ever encountered what I do. It doesn't mean they still don't get in some shots, or that I never get thrown, but I have a whole list of techniques I can apply at will because they don't have the training to counter them. I agree with you that Rogan makes some good points, but it's all generic advice you can get anywhere, and as much as I love Joe, he's not qualified to give martial advice. My main critique of gym training for prizefighting, having sparred with many in that domain, is that they train to focus only on the opponent in front of them, and that usually produces poor results in the streets, where you have to be aware of everything in your environment. Prizefighting is sport conducted in safe spaces with agreed upon rules and safety procedures.
Sergio Garza it was more for the viewers sake, joe always used to show the videos he was discussing but in his current videos he has stopped showing them because of the hassle of copyright claims.
Ti.es have changed and the tables have turned. Watch the video " Chen Xu Push hands vs. Czech mma fighter. Theres also 4 takedown matches against wrestler's where the tai chi guys won 3 of them. Watch " Tai Chi ( tian long tai chi) vs. wrestling 01,2,03,04. Major game changer.
The problem with modern tai chi, is that practitioners don't go through any conditioning whatsoever. Back when internal arts like this were initially created, practitioners honed their bodies with physical training and sparring, allowing the moves that they were taught to be effective. Nowadays, it has devolved massively into an art that elderly people use to remain healthy.
I think by modern you mean 'your experience,' and by conditioning you mean learning 'application on another person'. (if I am wrong on either of those please correct me) You should look for a different teacher if that is your experience. There is plenty of movement in the Daoist tradition that teaches application of movement and principals with a partner or sparer. Probably if you just do a local google search for push-hands you could find a group or teacher who could show you internal or external application (its very fun, much like playing). You should know that tai chi is just one family of movement in a religion that is actually very much alive an well. You may find more affinity with Bagua-zhang as it is quicker and the martial application is a little bit easier to become acclimated with if you are a beginner to internal movement. Daoism would not seem so degenerated if you went to its home instead of expecting it to come to you, on the other side of the world. I don't think you actually meant or intended any racism or ethnocentrism, even if your comment comes off that way. I would encourage you to take a fresh look, if you feel so inclined to expand your world view.
Tyler Cooper serious? racism and ethnocentrism is what you can read out of BRT's comment? What kind of weired pc-glasses are you looking through Tyler?
David, thank you, perhaps my word choice was confusing. I intended to say that I don't think that Benkei is ethnocentric or racist. Rather, I was just hoping to encourage a consideration that Daoism is a religion based on subtlety, but something vastly beyond the caricature of old people calisthenics.
Not true buddy as someone that practised it for many decades you start conditioning from the first day this includes increasing the density of your bones deliberately so that you can better receive and redirect force as well as muscular conditioning. Your experience is strongly dependent upon what style and with whom you train with. Seek out Shaolin ti chi from a warrior monk!!!
I once saw a guy doing Tai Chi in the park. He was minding his own business, just doing the movements with no shoes on, when about a half a dozen of the local kids came up and started harassing him. Taunting him, doing what he was doing but in a mocking way, rubbing and sucking his toes. But he just kept going through the motions, ignoring the yelling as it got louder. Eventually the kids got bored of licking his girthy toes and left, but not before urinated in an empty soda bottle and pouring it on his head while screaming "Subescribe to Pewdiepie! Keemstar did 9/11!" I was struck by the Tai Chi master's calm and poise as he took all of this abuse, never stopping in his technique even while covered in teen urine. In concern, I approached him to see if he was alright, but it was just Onision, happy as could be. Apparently he pays those teens hundreds of dollars every week to do this. I knew then that no other martial art on earth could be as dangerous as Tai Chi.
Tai Chi is an inner martial art. It is about mastering what is inside of you. It may have been an effective fighting style back in China centuries ago but it is not a 21st century combat martial art. It must be respected for what it is.
Andrew Jackson Because anyone who has a basic high school level knowledge of science (at least in my country. Not too sure about the American education system) know that the earth *CAN NOT* be flat. The keyword being- can not. Not if, not whether, just can not.
Andrew Jackson give us 1 good reason for the government or who ever or whatever it is are trying so hard spending millions if not billions of dollars to hide that flat earth of yours If you give a good and logical answer for that we may actually believe that craziness lol
You know I though Wing Chun was the only art that had tactile sensitivity and pressure sensing, but I think Tai Chi also has it. Maybe also Kuntao Silat. It seems to me that different Chinese Martial arts learned from each other, do you agree?
@@elumiomerk4013 Tai Chui Chuan has both regular and Blindfold Tai Chi Push hands training also known as sticky hands that teach how to yield and redirect force similar to wing Chun but even more sensitivity involved unfortunately the Tai Chi Community sometimes teaches this wrong too.
Martial arts, my teacher used to say, is something that's always evolving. He believed that if you're locked into a style that's 300 years old, then you're 300 years behind the times. Everything changes, nothing is etched in stone. You either adapt, or get used to losing. Asia did a great job of getting the basics figured out, but I don't think it's meant to stop there.
Your teacher was 100% correct. Schools that did not adjust after 1994 and integrate grappling defense have limited utility in 2022. The serious Tai Chi teachers I know all teach boxing and grappling in addition to pushing. The only distinction is that groundfighting is specialized and is considered suicidal in the streets, which is why the main domain of wrestling is sport and now prizefighting. BJJ will also do very little for you against multiple attackers, and even I've been jumped by more than one guy. Footwork is way more important that groundfighting, unless the fight is in a cage.
tai chi is great for the body man. Doing tai chi and yoga in the morning everyday is the bomb! If you want to learn how to fight in beat/kill people then go learn MMA.
there was a poster just few days ago, that said something like "tai chi for everyone basics class. After the basics you can learn the self defense aspect of tai chi"
@@dzieki_6569 it was definitely meant for combat. It’s just that most people interested in actually fighting these days practice modern combat sports (for good reason)
@@dzieki_6569 Of it is meant for combat, I got caught with diagonal flying one time with both feet in the air body folded in half and I remember specifically thinking oh damn that was good... but this is gonna hurt LOL since then I too have used my own version of wild horse parts it's main to take down countless people in sparring as well as other techniques from tai chi as well as other shaolin arts. It is a martial art it just isn't taught as one by many people.
@Paul Schramm They do the same in American Tae Kwon Do and Shotokan. They like to teach the 'hammerblock' as a block... and it's not. You can't block shit with it. They even teach "Your hand goes back to your side to get ready for another punch" Ugh... no, the form simulates if you have grabbed their hand and put them in an armbar. Same with the tai chi 'mystical hand waving' wasn't about a 'soft palm strike'. It was a "Hey, I have your foot, now I'mma twist it and flip you over". But nope, nobody knows the applications to these forms anymore.
@Paul Schramm jiu jitsu is not a one-trick pony LMAO. Wouldn't be in MMA if it was. Tai chi isn't even a pony, it's like a frog waiting to be stepped on.
Paul Schramm but in the early days of mma there were almost no rules. People WERE trying to kill you. Even in today’s mma, your opponent is trying to kill you, but there are more rules. Early days of mma proved brazilian jiu jitsu beats all other forms one on one. But the later years showed you need to be well rounded. Because a striker with knowledge on grappling and submission holds/joint locks can avoid takedowns and keep the fight upright. But one of the absolute pillars of fighting is bjj. Are you arguing that tai chi is more effective in a real fight? Curious why you believe that.
I've trained Tai Chi and Chinese traditional martial arts for over 15 years. Joe, you're absolutely right, I would not want to get into a ring with an MMA or BJJ fighter. I'm sure I would get decimated. However, Chinese martial arts are based on the idea that there are no rules, no referees, only survival. Therefore, strikes to the pressure points- knees, armpits, eyes, throat, etc. are what I would use in a self defense situation, along with the element of surprise, tricks and traps. I am not a believer in the "magical" nature of chi (neither are most other practitioners I know) and actually, I find that idea to be quite ridiculous. Rather i believe that it's about physical and mental balance and harmony. The moves of Tai Chi however, can be useful as many of them are actually designed as joint locks (Chi Na) and other self defense moves. The idea is that if you can't do something slow perfectly, it's useless to you to do it fast . Bottom line for me is that I find Tai Chi and Kung Fu to be highly beneficial for the mind, body, spirit. That is why I enjoy them.
Right and still cma cant do the job right for which it is designed for. That support from styles that work is needed. I got a hard punch with boxing. If you have that every strike is effective including eye jabs
@@Supermomo2007 No. It entirely depends on how much your train, and your skill differential vs the other guys, assuming you actually know how to fight. The key point here is that if MMA didn't take place in a cage, no one would be talking about MMA. (Nearly all the groundfighting in MMA takes place against the cage. Am I lying? That's why Judo, when they bother to take notice, can always come back around and re-establish dominance:)
I've worked in a psychiatric health facility for over three years, and although I do have vastly more knowledge about the matter, at the end of the day it feels like the longer I work there the less I know about Human Mental health.
as Jocko Willink says, "its a gun, concealed carry". That's how I defend myself. I workout and have strength for everyday use, defending myself and my family, 45 acp.
This is old vid, but I gotta set the record straight. Tai chi as we have it today is basically an exercise and performance art. However, these modern iterations did 100% originate from legitimate and effective fighting arts. If you look at existing videos and compare early 20th century tai chi masters to the tai chi champions of today, you can actually see the progressive shift occurring. And an important point that's often overlooked is that tai chi forms (and any traditional forms really) were only the first step in a larger training process. Generally, you'd go from sets in order to learn the motions and how to use your body, then training with partners in rehearsed routines, then finally to free sparring. The reason why free sparring wasn't used from the start, as is seen in our modern fighting sports, is because many of the techniques were potentially high damage or lethal if uncontrolled, e.g. groin strikes, eye gouges, oblique knee kicks, hits to the base of the neck, etc. So it only made sense to let people really fight once they had full control over what they were doing. This is especially true when learning a bladed weapon. So when you look at modern tai chi and think that can't hurt anyone. You're right, because it's not supposed to. It's a training step that's supposed to lead to other things. However, for those who understand what it is, there's still an incredible amount of martial knowledge and wisdom hidden under what look like soft and innocuous movements.
Taichi began to degrade as martial art when Yang Chengfu simplified taichi into an exercise that can be done by everyone while in the past, Taichi was meant for martial artist for its demanding exercise. Yang banhou one of legendarry taichi practitioner is very versatile taichi practitioner that in a fight he was not only chopping his opponents neck but also breaking his arm. Also keep in mind that in the past, they (Yang banhou and yang Jianhou) are trained very harsh. His father trained them so hard that Yang Jianhou (father of Yang Chengfu) try to commit suicide several times. However, the pinnacle of degradation of Chinese Martial Art was happened when Culture Revolution, many martial art practitioners at that time were being tortured physically and mentally and some skillful practitioners even commited suicide or cannot physically move anymore because of the persecution.
tai chi used to be very serious martial art. it got changed about 100 years ago into the art we know it today. but there are people out there who can use tai chi to fight seriously. but they are the ones who actually practice against all manner of realistic competitors. people don't get that chi (which just means the feeling of energy) is a health and healing power, not really a fighting aspect. BUT, if you are an older martial artist, developing chi can help you stay strong and healthy as you get older. I personally used tai chi to fix my knees, after years of damage and abuse from karate and other sports. that, is high level self-defense. keeping yourself healthy and full of vitality. for martial arts, tai chi is much more suitable than yoga.
Sadly the fighting styles behind tai chi are pretty much lost but the forms are relaxing. The truth is if you dont like being punched or kicked hard and aren't prepared to accept that as part of fighting or self defence then it doesn't matter what type of martial art you learn
I have a uncle who has practised multiple martial arts for 45+ years. Black belt Karate, not sure how high he got in the rest Judo, Jujitsu, Wu shu, many others. In the 70s he would go all over States doing comps. and demos. Tai Chi is what he been doing for 25 years. In his mind it's the best. It's all in who's teaching you. He showed me some things that work well. For instance a head lock with a Eagle claw on the throat. U spin the hand 180 and the Opponents pretty much dead. He took what he thought worked best and combined it to him. But he will say you better learn how to fight on the ground. I wouldn't mess with him. Also he was the the youngest person in Va at that time to get busted with distribution of illegal substance at 12 years old. At 9 he started moving coke from Florida to Va. After his time served he got into martial arts and it saved his life.
I earned my 2nd degree black belt in taekwondo and it has helped me in the past but I learned the hard way that it’s really only effective against people who can’t really fight at all. Ended up having to defend myself at a bar and this dude just happened to know a bit of BJJ and yeah didn’t go too well for me. So now I know I definitely need to work on my ground game so I don’t get whooped again lol. When my son is old enough I’m gonna put us both in BJJ classes.
Gracie came out in 1994 and set the world on fire, so it's insane that in 2022, EVERY MARTIAL ARTS SCHOOL ON THE PLANET IS NOT TEACHING GRAPPLING DEFENSE! It drives me nuts. But don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Ground fighting in the streets is suicidal unless you have buddies to back you up, so my advice is use what you learn in BJJ for grappling defense, improve your footwork, learn some western boxing, and reserve your kicks for the opponent's knee.
BJJ is an amazing martial art, but why in the hell would you want to go on the floor and do ground game in a bar? If it's 1 on 1 and you 100% know it's gonna be 1 on 1 then fair enough, but in my city in Scotland, I know some of his friends are gonna join in if it gets on the floor and you are gonna get destroyed with other guys kicking you or stamping on your head on the floor or hitting you with chairs on the floor. Judo would be a much better way to go, never go on the floor in a street fight imo. It's madness
Key point is that real tai chi training used to involve getting punched, kicked, thrown and grappled, but today, it's mainly taught and practiced as a health exercise by non-fighters. That can have high utility against opponents without serious training but, if you want to use Tai Chi for fighting, you have to spar, grapple, and it's useful to have been in some real fights. Second point is that even a generation ago, the real-deal were still training 10 hours per day. Very few people put in that kind of time anymore. But there's a big difference between a legit Jujitsu master who has trained hard their whole life and people who go the the MMA gym a couple days a week. So don't kid yourself. Regardless of which art I practice and which art your practice, if you train 5 hours a week, and I train 5 hours a day, I'm not worried about having to fight you. Final point is that nobody fights in slow motion so you still have to be able to box and defend against grapples. In my direct personal experience, if you have superior balance and footwork, you'll be able to hold your own against pretty much anyone.
In the words of Bruce Lee “Someone who has been boxing and wrestling for one year, can beat a life-long martial artist” so no, It indeed does matter what art you practice, not just how much you trained, some martial arts are flat out better then others, wake up.
Tai Chi (meaning Grand Ultimate Fist) is indeed a fighting art. Sadly over the past 100 or so years, that concept became extinct because most of the masters who knew how to use it for fights are long dead.
It would never have worked against modern fighting styles . A boxer or wrestler or kick boxer or Muay Thai fighter or any of the major fighting forms would blast them BJJ too what tai chi move is gonna help you in the guard of any mid tier BJJ fighter
@@munchingpickle623 true thats why im training wrestling and boxing with my kungfu. Chinese martial art has to adapt. Kungfu was always adapted and improved in the past why stop now?
I've read an old Chinese book (in English), and the author already said, back in the 30s, that Kung Fu in general had lost effectiveness around the year 1900, where because of a revolt in China people did not want to associate with fights and began to emphasize forms only... This book was about tai chi, and it said tai chi was NOT A FORM, but something to train chi, which according to his explanation was how to improve blood circulation, teach your body to move continuously, give balance, teach your body to react unconsciously when you need to react quickly and you don't have time to think, the ways you used to fight were the normal styles... Tai Chi was a supplement to improve the functioning of your body and normal art to work better... but with that mystical theory of chi... because it wasn't the scientific age yet... That's why they said that it took a long time to practice for tai chi to be understood, that's when you understood how to relax the muscles that are not being used, focus, eliminate unnecessary movements, it's not d different from what is done in MMA today, but today it is done with a scientific approach... Today you train how to rest to endure the fight until the end, how to hit the opponent first by making smarter moves, how to relax, cleanse your mind and focus, etc... Taichi was the psychological part and efficiency of movements at the time...
It's no entirely extinct, just that most masters are lazy, and stop working hard once they get their credentials and open schools, and very few practitioners today are willing to put in the time b/c financial rewards aren't there. So the only people today really doing it are the ones who do it for reasons beyond money and ego, purely to preserve and advance the art in every generation.
Jacko is spot on with wrestling as a great base for MMA- it’s a great starting point but you need boxing and BJJ as well. Wrestlers have the toughness and competitive edge that really helps.
Wrestling is great, but don't forget that these guys are also on the bandwagon with BJJ as the ultimate martial art, no matter how many times Judo takes notice and show up to correct that view. Wrestling is good, but Judo is better, imho, and I suspect it's largely because of the institution of the Kodokan, which allows all the best practitioners in the sport to exchange information and continue to advance it. My first adult fight I was taken to the ground on pavement by a collegiate wrestler, and although I "lost", I inflicted *significantly* more damage b/c training for the mat is not sufficient for the kinds of things people can do in the street. When training for sport you're conditioning yourself to fight within a set of agreed rules, and this usually becomes an albatross around the neck if the kid is not an exceptionally gifted natural fighter.
@@cfG21 No bjj was shown in that video. But hey it's a little more realistic because tai chi is a grappling art, not a striking art what many people think.
As a US Army Veteran with PTSD. The veterans affairs have helped me with classes of tai chi. It does help with meditation and focus as well as getting better with my mental. 🙏
@Tai Chi Tube not at all true. i have trained in military combatives, trained martial arts all my life, and am currently training in Krav Maga, Muay Thai, and BJJ a few times a week. Karate, Taikwondo, Kung Fu, Wing Chung, and Tai Chi are all good as a foundations and bases for a well rounded style... but none of them should be depended on solely in terms of Self Defense. they have their time and place.. but even Bruce Lee said "an athletic person with 1 year of wrestling and boxing training could defeat a life long trainer in Kung Fu... that absolutely goes for a karate black belt, TaeKwondo Black belt, and Tai Chi as well.. self defense situation, especially against someone with a well rounded mixed martial arts foundation could very well just blitz and destroy a person with just "tai chi" training
What is called Tai Chi was originally a martial art and largely based upon a type of combat wrestling. Obviously meditation and forms do not prepare one for free fighting. However, please note that Ramsey Dewey, a former MMA fighter and now trainer based in Shanghai, describes having met with one versed in the original art. He says that the old master was quite proficient.
Wrestling in general was integrated into Chinese martial arts to promote combat readiness in troops. Wrestling matches could be held without serious injury, unlike dueling with weapons or boxing. That's part of why Judo has been so successful as a sport and has such high prestige. But we believe Tai Chi originated in Chen village, and Chen style is known for extensive striking in addition to standing grappling, so it's a good bet that boxing was always a part of Tai Chi. If you want an effective martial art, you really need to train Tai Chi for pushing, Bagua for grappling, Hsingyi for striking, and some Shaolin to make your body strong so you can take hits. For me, it's box, box, box to set the opponent up, and only use Tai Chi applications that the opponent gives me, when they inevitably go off balance. It's also given me the ability to wear out every opponent I've ever faced, regardless of their conditioning, in both sparring and real fights. It all about minimal expenditure of energy, which is why we are generally unable to do it properly when we're still young and can rely on our physical strength.
Traditional Tai Chi most resembles traditional Okinawan Karate, which is to say "standing grappling with punches, kicks and throws." These arts emerged at roughly the same time, but diverged in their development subsequently. The key modern distinction is that real Tai Chi and real Wudang in general never go force-against-force.
I seem to find you everywhere Poet. Still an ignorant retard I see. Make a habit of ignoring everything this bigoted freak has to say; you'll thank me later.
Tai Chi is a great supplement to training as you get older. When you get in your 50s and 60s, hard training like heavy bag work and sparring damages your joints and causes too much inflammation to be viable - you really need to quit training. But Tai Chi maintains balance, flexibility and leg strength in a way that enables you to defend yourself for years (provided you can fight in the first place). But as a primary fighting art? You'd have to be VERY good, and then it would only work against an untrained and inexperienced fighter. All you really have is a few circular blocks and a palm strike.
Literally every decent martial arts teacher will say or says that it's not about fighting. It's about meditating, looking into yourself and disciplining and training your mind and body.
Tai Chi should never be used for defense. It is not a defensive art it is for healing, meditation, and flexibility. Chi is the energy around us all that determines whether or not a person is ill. Keeping your chi in balance keeps you healthy it is sad that someone tries to use it as weapon. Train with defensive weapons to protect yourself
Why are so many people bashing Tai Chi? It was a legitimate martial art used to beat the fuck out of people. Just because modern practitioners don't train to do that anymore, and as a result can't. Doesn't mean "it was never a real martial art" Theres a reason why it was there and why its still here. Not saying its better than MMA, and the master that got beat up was kinda meh as well. But theres no reason to discredit the martial art like that.
Pesudo exactly, it’s like if some taekwondo practitioner was saying he couldn’t be defeated and this other guy challenges him and beats the shit outta him. It doesn’t mean taekwondo isn’t effective, just that the practitioner was full of it
Well don't generalize that far. There are plenty of MMA Thugs that are nice lol. Its important to talk specifics, and have an open mind is all I think.
Tai Chi and Qi Gong as well as Wing Chun can help improve your martial arts as well as help your mental health. A person who believes a style beats another style is wrong. Like Ip Man said it's not the style that wins it's the person. Jujitsu is a strong hard style. I'd love to go on the Joe Rogan show and talk about marital arts.
Taichi when trained right, and fought in a right way, it's actually a standing grappling and wrestling style. It takes aspects of Shuaijiao (Chinese wrestling) and mystified it, So you need to practice Taichi, WITH Shuaijiao. Shuaijiao gives you the chance of resistance and strength training as well as experience in fights, Taichi is the cherry on top AFTER you mastered Shuaijiao, because it has some useful grappling techniques. The problem with traditional martial art is that their foundation is still things like Sanda, kick boxing or muay thai, but due to the mysticism involved, a lot of the traditional martial art practitioners don't care about the fundamentals and just want to learn this mystical powerful style
Tai chi is martial art. In fact it is very complete combat system which includes strikes, kicks, throwing an grapling and also joint locks. It is very efective But (there is always "'but"") only if it is trained properly. 99% of the practicioners in the world perform only tao lu, the tai chi forms, which are very good for health and coordination but it is not enough to develop fighting abilities. So in that case mr. Rogan is right, it is some kind of yoga and meditation exercise.
I've been doing tai chi from a prominent private lineage for 25 years, and it's literally one of the funnest things that I do and I wake up early to do it on a daily basis. It makes my body feel infinitely more light, balanced and flexible, my mind much sharper and my moment-to-moment presence greatly enhanced. It's given me this weird, hard to explain sense of being connected to people, to the room I'm in at any given time and to the "source" of stuff... it's hard to explain. At this point in my life it has become nearly a religious pursuit, but a fruitful religion without worship or any rules. I'm also a combatives instructor in the US Army, and a blue belt (should be much farther along after all these years) in jitz. I've trained MMA and Muay Thai off and on for several years and I've wrestled and dabbled in Judo and boxing. I've coached many people to success in that stuff and I have a small handful of medals that I really worked hard for. In a fight, literally nothing I know about tai chi would even cross my mind. I would protect my head, control the range and angle, close the distance, take my opponent to the ground, gain a dominant position and finish the fight. I can teach the old school, "legit" tai chi fighting "stuff" that you don't see on youtube, but I don't. Simply because if I want to teach someone to fight, I'm teaching them 1-4 from western boxing, a couple of solid kicks, 2-3 takedowns with some options and 5-6 high percentage submissions and then drilling the shit out of all of that with resisting opponents of various sizes and skill levels. The coolest chin na techniques in tai chi literally don't work if a dude who lifts weights flexes while you're twisting his shit. It only work's on a poor Chinese villager who has never eaten anything but rice and tofu in 500 A.D.
man that cool reply, very interesting! bullshito drives people crazy, you criticise another mans style and youd think you fucked his mom or something, people get so offended, so this very cool.
Tia chi has been very useful for deflecting punches from drunken idiots, If people are filming you on their phones when you get into a fight the hassle of knocking someone out and police maybe getting involved/ court cases etc.. is too much hassle.
The thing is, if its helps with feeling present in the moment, and you feel more connected to people & the environment most the time, and some of that time you're training and sparring, how is it that Tai Chi isn't helping you in combat? Something to think about
That was clearly an unfair fight. The tai chi master never got a chance to settle his chi, otherwise he would have kaioken x4 kamehameha'd xu xaiodong across the room
Im older now, but had a commercial Karate Studio in the 80's. Started training in '68 at 11. In the late 70' & early 80's, i worked in Night Clubs in So Cal, doing Security. My father was a wrestler and Judoka. We were doing a form of mixed MA. When i opened my School, it was hard, because most students Weren't fighters. Some developed great technique, but would it 'work'?? They became stronger, more flexible, healthier, etc... Im sure that in a situation, they would have more of a chance than before, but who knows? You can't encourage them to go out & get into fights! There's no way of duplicating Fight or Flight. I've seen Very skilled Dojo fighters Freeze. I hate to admit it, but commercial Karate is the only sport, that you Hold Back!! You don't hold back, hitting a baseball. Do it for Health reasons, for fun, for friendships. And if you're ever in a situation, hopefully, it'll kick in and help. 🤞🏼
The history on Tai Chi is interesting; where it came from, how it was passed down, and how it has been watered down thru the ages. Most people practicing it are clueless and are merely going thru an exercise. Many of these people have convinced themselves that this type of training is legit for self-defense. But, I have met a couple of people that train some Tai Chi concepts with a true martial arts intent, and it is very different. However, the success of most styles depends upon the practitioner...a Bruce Lee would have stood out regardless of style.
Like you say the success of 'most styles' depends on the practitioner, but so much of modern taiji has been introduced by teachers who have nothing more than 'lineage' and unfounded pseudo-spiritual nonsense to back them up that making a success of it would be equivalent to training in modern dance and then hopping into a mma competition. Your success will be mainly inspite of your training, not a result of it.
@PrisonCipher I would have to both agree and disagree with your logic. Versions of the styles you mentioned, or better yet combinations of them is what has been proven to work in current MMA competition. But there are watered down versions of each of those as well, and the athleticism of the practitioner most definitely matters. Case in point Bruce Lee coming from Wing Chun roots; Wing Chun may have given him his initial martial arts foundation, but his athleticism and open-minded willingness to adapt and adopt from other styles are what made him stand out...ahead of his time.
In my area it is taught almost exclusively by Hippies who only learned a small piece of the art, and talk about "energy" in a mystical context, or dudes who trained hard the first ten years and then started slacking as soon as they got their credentials. A lot of people "go to China" for a couple of months then come back and believe they've got it. But all that results in is they practicing without correction for decades, deepening their errors. I trained with an acknowledged master with an international reputation 5 days a week for decades, and still only got a piece. I still have to "fill in the other parts of the tapestry" on my own. I still seek out colleagues and legit masters for critique, correction, and exchange of information. "Tai Chi takes a lifetime." But those external arts only work until about the age of 40.
tai chi & qi gong imho is mainly awesome for meditation like yoga. when i studied shiatsu, i would look forward to every thursday when we'd do a 30 min Qi-gong breathing meditation. it gave me such a noticeable buzz that for some strange reason it always gave me the urge to get high as fuck after class lol. for self defense ill stick to mma.💪 for meditation i highy recommend qi gong( pron. chee gung) ✌👍
If you enjoy your qi gong breathing, keep up with it. That is a good enough reason on its own. If you learn from a master, there is application to chi-gong, but you may need to practice it for a very long time before it is clear. Sometimes, it only makes sense to expect someone to understand application after they have been practicing for ten years, because it takes ten years of repetition to change the body enough that it makes sense to expect that movement to come up in self defense, and actually work. The ambiguous nature of the movement is generally subtle on every plane of existence, and similarly, must be absorbed though experience. ~I can tell you what an orgasm feels like, but you would rather just experience it to know what it means right? Looking to chi-gong for fighting application is like looking to a dictionary to understand what orgasm feels like. There is a definition, but it is not going to be satisfying answer for what you are looking for. If you have a good teacher, it doesn't take ten years so long as you are reasonably healthy and balanced already. Even if you never understand the application but you do the movement, that is exactly enough to get the health benefit, so don't let ignorance or ambiguity discourage you in the least.
Okay... so lets go way back in time to when practitioners of Chan meditation came into contact with Buddhists, over 2000 years ago. The philosophies of Daoism and Madhyamika Buddhism found kinship in each other (think Chinese and Indians sharing mysticism, and keep in mind that Buddhism absorbed all the Vedic literature, especially vedanta philosophies. ) Daoist Tai chi and Buddhist Qi gong are like different trajectories in terms of building your condition for a desired purpose. A good way to answer your question would be for you to decide what you want to gain from practice, and can your teacher give that to you. If your teacher has students who can demonstrate movement and a quality of health you desire, that is a good indication. Qi Gong requires discipline, an enlightened teacher, and dedication, as well as self-sacrifice. Tai chi requires all of those things as well, but to a much lesser degree, so you can get away with being more lax in your practice, and you can reap the benefits of tai chi much earlier, almost instantly depending on who you learn it from. Don't learn from a Chi Gong teacher who has never heard of Nae Gong, or they do not consider themselves a healer. Never learn from a tai chi instructor who can't teach you to incapacitate a person with one open-hand strike, or doesn't seem to constantly abide in a present bliss. A good teacher is more important than the art itself. If they are worthy, they should be able to give you a strong and balanced body, mind, and spirit, and they should be able to demonstrate that they can teach all of those to you by embodying them personally. Aside from that, just do what you would practice. Learn tai chi if you would do tai chi every day... do chi-gong if you would do chi-gong everyday. The benefit doesn't come from 'knowing' how to do the movements, the benefit comes from embodying the movements from repetition. When you hit air, your body reabsorbs the shock of the energy that would have gone into your opponent. Tai chi and Chi-gong are both foundations to teach you to reabsorb and cultivate that kind of energy by opening and closing the whole body in rhythm with your breath, instead of spilling it with arbitrary movement, the forms force certain pieces in your body to work together. Do what you will practice correctly.
Taiji is the pure core of all martial arts. Anyone, at any level of any fighting art, can learn taiji and gain massive improvement and advantage. It's just not practiced with sparring and combat. Taiji teaching doesn't exclude basic guarding and striking. It's about balance, control and efficient energy transfer and projection. It trains you to carry energy and balance from one movement into the next in continuous flow. Can't do any harm to someones style surely?
Yes. But one of the major problems is the Tai Chi from today is not the Tai Chi from Yang Luchan anymore. Tai Chi, Choy Li Fut or Wing Chun, they have more or less the same roots but evolved differently. In Wing Chun there is a famous quote. The first students of Yip Man were street fighters, the second technicans, and from the third to this day are guys who profite from the reputations from Yip and the first generation students.
@@chrisbach1533 Read my post at the head of this thread from today. The 67/68 Combined Tai Chi contains roughly 25 fist strikes, 12 throws, 9 joint locks, 9 palm strikes, 7 finger strikes, 6 leg sweeps, 5 elbow strikes, 5 heel kicks, 3 toe kicks, 3 leg hooks, 2 arm breaks, 1 side kick. That doesn't include all the pushes, presses, and most of the techniques have more than one application.
I studied T'ai Chi after severe physical injury, when I physically couldn't do other forms, and it was great for helping me to focus and relearn how to pay attention to my movements to help avoid chronic pain. It has to take severe delusion to believe it could be a fighting style.
Tai chi is awsome, its just meant to train the mental aspect of martial arts, not for the combat aspect. It needs to be supplemented by an actual combat martial art if one intends to fight.
Tai Chi can be used for combat but you have to train for that purpose. My teacher said "10 years, 10 hours a day" for basic competency, which equates to about 36,000 hours or training. For this reason, many fighting schools also teach hsingyi striking and bagua grappling, because those arts can be used with some degree of effectiveness long before the student has any real technique.
*Tai Chi is more powerful than MMA. Why...* Health, Career, and Relationships are true power in modern life, not combat. We don't live in a dystopian, forced gladiatorial, or post-apocalyptic world. Tai Chi won't ruin your relationships and career as a consequence of brain damage, face tattoos and ego-complex, befitting of McGreggor and Tyson. Tai Chi will improve your general physical and mental fitness (eg executive functions, working memory), allowing you to outperform others in school and work, where it matters. Ultimately, you will be more apt to survive than the 99% of MMA masters in the real-world.
Hold up didn’t Robert say he used it to help him go through his drug rehab and he knows it wouldn’t be useful in fights but it helps understand to control himself
The only problem is that people sometimes don't know how to practice Tai Chi well, because in general, I respect any discipline, any Martial art. Regardless of how useful or useless it is, I hope you understand this gringo neighbors.😌
@@ElBoyacense2004 Yup. I didn't have a choice. Learning to fight was a matter of survival. Because I was always smaller than weaker than the people who attacked me, and because some of those attacks involved multiple opponents, if I'd learned a conventional external style, or even BJJ, I would have been seriously injured. Tai Chi, combined with bagua/hsingyi gave me the ability to survive until I could win. Once I could win, I no longer had to fight b/c there's no one one the planet who can force me to engatge--they don't have the footwork. 😃
I thought Tai Chai was like a workout not a martial art. This is like a yoga guy or a pilates dude trying to enter the octagon, sorry you can't bring the pilates ball for this one.
nujiss jiss negative. If a martial art has majority of its people fail it's the martial art. If only 1 or 2 good people can do decent it's just that person is so good he can make something bad look decent. He's be twice as better if he did another martial art like muay thai
Wang style (the most spread in occident) is about slow and fluid movements. But each move is supposed to kill. The Chen style would be the one used for combat. I don't know about Wu style.
Arrya Willems there’s parallels and lots of movements that can translate to Martial arts applications. It’s similar to Yoga in my eyes. If yoga makes you more flexible and better conditioning for a fight that doesn’t mean your Style is “Yoga” martial arts .
I have started getting into Tai Chi because I have a messed up back thanks to my previous job as a nurses aide. I am not old by the way but in my 30's however on that note I grew up taking Tae Kwon Do so I have been surprised to find that even though it's been over 25 years since I have done that some of the moves and stances are coming back to me. I would love to get my son into martial arts. He's 12 and I think it would be good for him.
I recommend Judo if the kid is interested in serious martial art. He's also going to need a boxing art, but there you want to be careful and avoid anything where they get hit in the head too often. Every martial artist needs to get punched in the face so that it doesn't come as a surprise. But if it's a regular part of training, there's a high risk of brain damage. I've known a fair amount of boxers and a few MMA fighters, and they all tend to be pretty "punchy" by their 30's. Prizefighting is not a good career choice if one has alternate economic opportunities.
My Mum say Tai Chi, that says it all. I did Wing Chun for a while, and it was aimed at self defence, more than fighting, and for that is was very effective.
I am a tai chi instructor and a practitioner. But I only practice and teach for health. Tai chi applications DO NOT work in a fight because there are just too many variables and a fight is just too dynamic. When younger students ask me to teach them the self-defense applications I always tell them to go learn jujitsu, wrestling, muay thai or boxing. I have yet to meet a single tai chi practitioner that can be effective in a fight. I think the effective application of tai chi in a fight has long been lost to antiquity. I don’t think there’s a single person in the world who truly knows how to fight with tai chi. For this reason I think it should be practiced for health first and foremost. ...my two cents.
I've seen it be effective many times and we still teach it as a martial art at Shaolin Kung Fu there is a reason they say "To enter the gates of Tai Chi, you must first pass through the halls of Shaolin"
kind of over-generalizing. there are many tai chi practitioners who aren't all "wu-wu" and don't believe in stuff but train to the principles of the art. structure, softness, awareness, leading your opponent. all of these aren't some magical "chi" soup properties, they're practical ways to be effective if you truly understand the principle and root it in your experience, the same way a wrestler might train to drive his force from the ground with his leg. also 1:13 many people do not train this in a way that's focused for straight up combat, many don't even train with a partner! and for some reason they believe they're some sort of masters and have zero respect for other arts, but that is no reason to mock the art (there are idiots in every field and on every side of any fence). B.T.W no tai chi practitioner whose honest and isn't trapped in some illusionist story is ever gonna try to stand in front of double leg and just try to hardcore root himself in a wu-chi stance for example. maybe for training but never in a situation where the sparring is free form and somebody big and powerful is really trying to take you down and kill you up like that. check out "Clear's Internal Combat Arts". a dude that has been training in martial arts for over 20 years and "Peter Ralston" who maybe is a bit more "wu-wu" then richard but IS talking honestly out of true self experience and is a true master of fighting, definitely recommend his books even if there quite hard understand but if you don't dismiss it as bullshit and truly open yourself up to the possibility that it is talking about something grounded and down to earth material then you will get so much out of it, but just like any other book you have to do the work yourself and these contain serious long kind of "kung fu" train your ass 10 hours a day for a year to even get decent, but it's worth it. (sorry for the small rant about peter ralston, love that guy) i hope you were open enough to atleast check it out and maybe even take it as something that you don't truly know what it's about and be open to the possibility that you may have been wrong about it. take care!
The reason Wing Chun rarely works in the ring is because of MMA rules. Wing Chun is meant to disable opponents as fast as possible not just knocking them out. Arm breaks, legs breaks or in a real street fight, Wing Chun is about either breaking the bones or killing them because street fights sometimes can result in bad injuries or death. A real Wing Chun master in a street fight will probably stomp your knee cap in or take your arm and snap your bones very fast. Also you dont Chain Punch to the face, its to the rib cage.
If you're talking street fight, a god damn eye poke or a kick to the balls is probably simpler and equally effective. Fuck, considering there's no rules you can just bite, choke and pinch. Wing Chun, according to your comment, is a fancy version of street fighting.
I don't think martial arts are fake but martial artists are doing disservice to their art. I mean martial arts were basically use to survive and make a living, it was a job that could get you killed at any time. Martial artists used to fight and kill. But how many of them do you see fight today? Even is you practice MMA, if you have fought in your life, you will get your ass whooped. MMA is superior in terms of the fighting experience that comes with it when being taught. When martial arts start putting their art through the same experience, i think they will rediscover the effective part of their arts.
@@czr4752 yeah well I'm telling you as someone who was actually good at basketball that it does help more than other martial arts because the fundamental principles are the same...
@@anon2234 yes doesn't matter how good a fighter is, you have to be able to withstand force. In real Tai Chi Chuan, there is Nei Kung. This teaches the body to receive force. One can practice Gong Fu till old age, but without Nei Kung it is useless.
Vivek V You do know that Donnie Yen is a kickboxer, has a black belt in Judo and a purple belt in BJJ right? And has experience in like a dozen other styles. He may have never fought competitively but he's legit.
the MMA guy is Xu Xiaodong, and he deliberately wanted to debunk fake kunfu that misleads people to think they can defend themselves in dangerous situations. He is pretty great.
Great discussion Joe Rogan and Mr Jocko. IMO no legitimate tai chi master would put themselves or tai chi out there as a modern day fighting art. And as a tai chi practitioner I would define tai chi as being a moving meditation that is good for overall health and wellness. In addition tai chi can aid the body in healing from injuries. Peace Mr Joe Rogan and Jocko
I feel like kata in karate should be viewed the same way. Obviously, you can train karate in a way that will be useful in fighting, 3 of the goats were karateka, but its ok to use it as a moving meditation and just have fun too.. I hate how mma guys. Especially the bjj guys feel everything has to be "useful in the streets"... not everyone is an asshole who gets themselves into fights all the time
@@drew123994 it's not about getting into fights on the street. Nothing like disrespecting a load of people because they don't see the merit in dancing masquerading as a martial art instead of actual combat sport.
1:58 What Jocko said about having proper protocol really shows his training and understanding of how to diffuse situations and how each fighter is actually representing really different lines of history and traditions, the greater political issue that arose from this.
Ai-“KI”-do - not Ai-“chi”-do. The answer to the question presented is in the name..... (in Japanese the word is “ki” in Chinese the word is “chi” both referring to the same thing).
Chi is real. It can be used to detect, like feeling what your opponent is going to do, or feeling where the next strike is coming from. Practice Chi Control & take MMA classes, you'll be unstoppable.
I read that Tai Chi wasn't created for fighting but an exercise that took inspiration from martial arts training. It's like an ancient version of Tae Bo which practically did the same thing but used kick boxing moves. I tried it, takes a lot of discipline to control your breathing while moving your body really slow. I don't know how to explain the feeling, it's like concentrating on where the oxygen and blood flow over your brain and body while moving.
"I read that Tai Chi wasn't created for fighting but an exercise that took inspiration from martial arts training". Well, i dont think that is true. The original founder was Zhang Sanfeng[San-feng] (western name order Sanfeng Zhang), and it was created for the battle field, which means using hands, feet, but also blunt and edged weapon. But later Tai Chi went into different directions. What the Yang family did, ppl like Luchan[Lu-chan] Yang, his son Jianhou[Jian-hou] Yang, etc., had not much to do anymore with the stuff Sanfeng did, it became too soft and today Tai Chi is almost like Yoga.
@@chrisbach1533I just don’t see soldiers doing Tai Chi in the battlefield against opponents with spears, swords, crossbows and calvary. Also it was Chen Wanting that incorporated boxing moves to Tai Chi. It’s like Taebo, an exercise that’s inspired from Kick Boxing. In addition, ancient Chinese scholars record and document everything and there’s no documentation of it being used as for combat.
@@hangten1904 Dont disagree with your point. Even experts are in disput if Zhang or Chen were the founders of Tai Chi. But we can agree Chen was a military general and what he did was for the military and not just for exercice. So or so i think Chen Wangting(Wang-ting) is "historical" more legt as Zhang Sanfeng, because Zhang is almost a kind of mythical figure, and it isnt even clear when he exactly lived. But so or so i think its fair to say Tai Chi today isnt what it was during the time of Wangting. I just realized after checking out some numbers that Chen Wangting (1580-1660) lived exactly in the same time as Miyamoto Musashi (1584-1645). Sad they never met, but of course it wasnt possible since China and Japan were like "locked up" during these times.
@@chrisbach1533 I would say maybe Zhang was the founder because he was a Taoist monk and the philosophy behind Tai Chi is Taoist? And then you have Chen who previously served in the military would add to it by incorporating boxing moves and assimilating Daoyin and Tuna into his practice (Chen style). From there, it would be followed by the Yang style and the Wu Style forms of Tai Chi. So if there is a Tai Chi that was developed for fighting it would be in a later modern time, but for Chen, there's no written record of him using it for fighting during his time.
@@hangten1904 Ancient Tai Chi was for fighting. Look up Grandmaster Chang Dongsheng [spelled many different ways] who died in 1986, standardized Shuai Jiao, and taught a Tai Chi form to soldiers that was effective, and deadly, in the field. Most Tai Chi today is like shadow boxing and speed bag work in boxing - good for exercise, but not great in a street fight. You need more than simple push hands and sparring for Tai Chi to work in self defense, on the other hand most people don't want to devote 6 months to a couple of years to learn a Hua Jing move that can shatter an attacker's ribcage. Even Chin na techniques take years of study.
There is a saying in taichi classics that you can train 10 or more years in the art and get nowhere if you aren't training it right. The guy he fought practices "Thunder Tai Chi" it's not one of the 5 main schools and its most likely complete bullshido. I think its unfair to consider the guy a master and that's the infuriating part for people who do train it for martial aspect. If you are an MMA practitioner it would not hurt your study to find a teacher who knows their stuff to get just one lesson from them to see what it's about and if it works for your personal style. I trained muay thai, karate, grappling and I honestly say after finding my school and teacher I thought it was complete bullshit too until they showed me where I was going wrong.
@@luvfreedom1470 I mean theres parts of the world where shaolin kung fu or tai chi or whatever is beating boxers asses and other parts where boxers win. There is no excuses there is just education. The way people like you think about other martial arts it just stupid. In a way its just like boxing technicalities, if you train with the right teacher and mindset you will be the better boxer same as other martial arts. The way you think about asian martial arts is like saying "boxing is same everywhere, Floyd Mayweather could grow up learning boxing from a guy who doesn't know the right shit and if he gets beat to shit by street fighters then boxing in general is shit because boxing is same every where if one boxer fails that means the whole boxing martial arts is bad"
Kareem Z Great points, Kareem! I was going to mention that (within the realm of boxing) Floyd Mayweather is an expert that has been training since he was a child. The philly shell style is said to be one of the most difficult to master, and so many have been knocked out and utterly destroyed while attempting to use it. With the way some people think, they might say “oh that style doesn’t work” yet in this case we have evidence that it does with boxers such as Floyd (among others). I was once taught “how you train is how you will fight” and see that the training method, the quality of the student and teacher/coach along with their ability to understand each other is of utmost importance.
@Tai Chi Tube yeah I'll get back to my cage where my fight system actually works in real life. Good luck with your flying squirrel ball sack fu bullshit.
I did TaiChi as a young kid and it saved my ass twice. I didn't know any other martial art. Out of nowhere, a dude tried to jump me. I saw him way before and blocked the strike immediately, the dude was mad surprised and just went his way. Second time was during a concert when someone tried to push me into the moshpit, I did another move I was training for years (but at full speed) and the guy flew away. This time, it was a very basic turn with my body, which could be learned or trained in any other self-defense system. In a ring-situation, 1:1, I would never have had a chance; so my point is: All I learnt was becoming aware of my surroundings and nullify unjustified strikes against me, which I was able to do. I personally think this better than sending someone to a hospital or worse. What I'm saying is: don't take TaiChi at face-level, just because the movements are slow. However, I wouldn't even dare to fight a dude like Francis Gannou (as an example), but then again, violent random behavior on the streets is ususally quite different and not like in the ring either... I think Mr. Rogan actually should do TaiChi, I'm quite sure it's good for him, and even improve his fighting skills.
He knew what was gonna happen but for the sake of truth.... True Warrior even got kicked out of dojo worked all his life in. Respect to him support with sponsoring him🙏
He was successfully practicing the art of taking his opponents anger and harmful intent into his own body. Probably won't try it again very soon though.
Joe constantly talks about street fights as if they are ring fights. Like all street or bar fights start out with people on one side of the room and an announcer talking about what style each person will be bringing to the fight. MMA has really brought an unrealistic idea of fighting to the world.
well put. i like the sport, but it is just that. ju jitsu is great, when mixed with striking arts. you cannot grapple every body-weapon part. to me it seems ju jitsu in actual practice outside of a ring would be most effective if you were losing. like when you are lying on the ground and someone is kicking you and you grab the leg and twist into some sort of joint lock.
Christoph truth. From security work and a very small bit of bouncing/ bar scene I’ve not seen too many people (i can’t remember any right now) that fully went to the ground. My partner at work just got out of a 5 year streak of bouncing and says he can count the times on both hands he let it drop to the ground. Striking will almost always come first. Again not saying it’s not worth the time to practice. Just simply that most situations (especially in public) will dictate too many other variables to allow rolling on the ground for an arm bar. On another note, Joe makes references to “classic” martial arts as being out dated, but I would bet both my nuts that if someone took a roundhouse or side kick from Joe (from his classically trained days of TKD) it would be detrimental to their status HAHAHAHA so he’s kinda a perfect example and contradiction to his own argument.
I've looked into training in Tai Chi knowing, in advance, it's not meant for fighting. I'm just looking for a form of exercise where weights etc aren't involved after 3 back surgeries and 2 wrist surgeries, including a full fusion. I just want to be able to stretch and loosen my muscles. Anyone thinking it's even remotely good in a fight is nuts
Tai Chi is too dangerous to be used in MMA. Chi blasts can literally decapitate people. Have you never seen dragon ball?
No. It's dangerous because of the ball strikes. It's why you're supposed to wear a cup while sparring.
foxymetroid oh so tai chi is the art of ball strikes? Sounds gay
ball stikes were legal in mma once though and there were no tai chi fighters back then either
Except in Dragon ball, they practice by sparring hard.
I get it now. Kamehameha and all that? Decapitate people? Couldn't it blow up planets or something?
As soon as they said flat earth I was expecting Eddy bravo to appear like a ninja who's always been there lol.
*backflips onto the table
"YOU HAVE TO LOOK INTO IT!"
Well if there is one thing we know for certain is he isn't on the other side of the planet.
*Swings down from the lampshade* "Look into it is all I'm saying" *swings back up and out of sight*
“Okay, tell me when your chi is all centered” lmao
i lost it at that part
"And the guy , you know... does his little thing, and then settles his chi, and says "ok, I'm ready..." "
..Ramsey Dewey..debunk anyone?
I practiced tai chi for 25 years but I still think this comment is funny 😂
It takes 120 years to gain enough chi.
I think Tai Chi is like Yoga. Great for stretching, relaxing, etc. Not fighting.
Tai Chi was originally a grappling style and had punches and kicks Tai Chi literally means ultimate fist
Yoga can be good for fighting though. Kron does it to help with his breathing and flexibility
That's what I always felt too, though it mightve been something in the past, the current form as I see it is good to develop movement and flexibility and possibly even awareness of your body - all of which will help you in your study of another martial art or fighting style
I knocked 3 guys out once using yoga. Swear to god
Austin Batton ok man chill lmao. Btw you got any advice for a guy starting out in wrestling?
If I drink Chai tea before I do Tai Chi brah you can't stop me.
Lmao 😂
Chai and tea are thr same thing
@@NoradNoxtus Don't be a turd in the punchbowl just show off you know one thing.
@@NoradNoxtus saying "chai" and "chai tea" is the same thing......
😭😂😭😂
Taichi has been central in my life for 14 years. Went several times to China to train fulltime, been teaching for 4 years. Never thought any of this would help me directly in a fight, which is why I also do bjj and muai thai! I know so many taichi people that are completely delusional though, so many that are convinced they have mystical fighting skills...
Right ? I noticed this nonsense thirty years ago..But even today with UA-cam and all those MMA videos for all to see, How can people stil believe this ? These people ruin the Tsi chi tradition. I started with Tai chi after when I got to older, to fight, and to revelalidate , Hopefully I keep doomg for the rest of my life, But going to Tai chi to learn street fighting is like going to a fencing school to learn boxing, It just doesn't make sense,
@@spiritualanarchist8162 Well, people still believe in a lot of crazy stuff... Some people take the old testament literally, despite plenty of evidence that shows that it's most likely inaccurate... Why shouldn't there be people who buy into the whole Tai Chi thing? Especially in China, they seem to really push the propaganda and the country is kinda on media lockdown, so yeah...
@@KitsyX Yes, I am old enough to know people believes can be very differnt & nonsenical ..What is insanity to one, can be the absolute truth to another. however most of these believes can't be challenced outside the realm of conjecture. . Religion ( for example) won't be tested until we die. Even flat earthers can refuse to look at data...etc,etc Now a Tai chi teacherhowever can go to a UFC (or whatever ) fight (or just watch tv or video) and see what he will face , before stepping in the ring and getting his ass *kicked.I don;t see people who ride a mopet challenge a Tour de france winner for a bike race. Or someone who jogs every morning challenge atheletes for a running contest, This weird stuff only seems to happen with martial arts. ( P.S my English spelling control is off, so sorry for the bad grammar)
However, you can train to use Tai Chi Chuan for combat. To do Western-style Tai Chi which is more or less the same as ballroom dancing, and then think you can fight is laughable.
@@StimParavane Tere is o 'western'' style 'How is the combat style called ? I never seen a tai ci style that is a pure combat style in itself , only as an additon with for example Pak me pai Wu-shu,.
MMA guy is just lucky he didn't get hadoukened
😂😂😂😂
😭
Yeah...lol
Wtf is that😒😒
@@amittkumar151 Ozzy Man!
The 80's and 90's (pre UFC days) had the best bullshit martial artists advertising in Black Belt & Inside Kung Fu magazine. Al Colangelo (who could knock out Mike Tyson with 1 punch), James Patrick Lacy (who could break coconuts with his chi), John La Tourette (hit you 18 times in 1 second), George Dillman, along with all the "official trainers of the Navy SEALS and Army Special Forces" guys. Most of these guys quietly disappeared when MMA appeared on the scene.
Which was The Count dude who could kill you with one punch that would rip your organs out? WAs that one of the ones you listed?
Devil's Advocake that guy posted ads in comic books I think
Primaul oh yeah count Dante
@@justasleepparalysisdemonwi8719 Yeah, that's him. had to google, Juan Raphael Dante. Guess they didn't mention him in the video. Because I remember all my old Marvel comics kept talking about his 'death punch'.
It's true that Martial Arts, like everything else, is subject to Sturgeon's Law, but don't forget that MMA in 2022 is a sport with weight classes, rules, protective gear and mats, where the fighters stop every couple minutes to drink water. It was custom designed to make grappling viable, which is why nearly all of the groundfighting happens against the cage. I've been in plenty of fights but never against anyone smaller or weaker so I don't even know what you modern MMA guys are talking about. Gracie can talk about real martial art b/c he fought all comers of any weight with no time limits and as few rules as the commissions would allow. But modern MMA can only talk about sport conducted in safe spaces.
With two pounds of steel in my hands I can take most people on the planet, and any fat guy with a 38 special can take me without getting out of their chair. That's reality.
JR : its like a mental illness
Robert Downey Jr: I do wing chun
JR : its an anderrated martial art.
Lmao
wing chun was what bruce lee practice but in his days school fought each other as part of training. it was also how he figure out that there was something wrong with it so he started researching including studying boxing
It's almost as if Joe Rogan is just talking crap... hmmmmm
wing chun has some useful stuff, when joe talks shit on fake martial arts its usually aikido
@@silosis wrong because he actually talk steven segal and says he's legit and Aikido is Legit too.
@@artisticskillz01 Not true. He said it was bullshit.
Good Aikido is bad Judo.
This guy looks like a crossbreed between Matt Damon and Henry Rollins.
spot on
Josh duhamel?
Oh damn! It’s so true lol
i didn't know who you were talking about at first but as i finished reading your comment it switched cameras and i realized immediately, i was looking at a lab baby cross of matt Damon and Henry Rollins
A x breed hahaaaa he is a mutt 😂
Most real chinese martial arts was destroyed through out the many periods of changes china went through.
From philosophy, to medicine, to martial arts, to its architecture and ethics...China hasn't been able to hold onto anything because various tyrannical governments oppressed anything that could possibly challenge their reign.
Even Confucius philosophy was persecuted, in part, because it taught loyalty to family above all else, including government.
Very sad for a civilization that had so much advanced tech for its day, from writing on paper, to gun powder, to pasta...
China rocks
never thought of it that way
bullshit..
Yup , martial artist has been widely slaughtered , and actual shaolin temple has been burnt 3 times. Saying Tai Chi doesn't work , is like saying you can't eat food with chopsticks. If no one continue to learn how to use chopsticks , we might thought that must be a weapon of some sort. Just take a look at the weapon variations that ancient chinese created , and no ancient martial fighting arts ? The problem is that people don't understand what they are doing and saying. It's like for a random guy to play out with chemical reaction that doesn't really know what he is doing , then of course either will not work or things will be out of control. Even with any fighting arts that you say is 100% useful nowadays , trying that out without understand will either won't work or you are waiting for injury , it's the same.
Fun fact , Muai Tai is a form of ancient Chinese martial arts.
Rogan needs to interview Xu Xiaodong. Just get a translator,... It would get so many views.
He cannot leave the country. China has barred him from leaving
@@akimbodice6955 he has a YT channel and has actually seen the vid count dankula did on him and responded.
@@alexandero9936 he has to physically send the video files to friends outside of China for them to upload it. The Chinese firewall won't allow him to access UA-cam himself. He's not allowed to take trains or plains or buses either
I'm a former amateur boxer who got hooked on taiji because I was lucky to get a bad-ass, irreverent instructor who understood what Shakespeare called "timing, distance and proportion." So, I've been doing taiji for more than 20 years in China and the U.S. Mr. Rogan is right, and wrong. Taiji's roots were in fighting. it was developed by veterans of pre-gunpowder war. Mr. Rogan and others are right that it has lost its way. but that's not due to the art -- it's the fault of the wacky practitioners and bullshit artists. It all gets down to the purpose. The big problem these days (and this goes for wing Chun guys as well) is you get too many guys who train in these gentleman's agreement kinda places. where no one's actually ever stood toe-to-toe in anger. where no one throws a real punch. no one brings a determined attack. it's all slow and choreographed. and everyone starts to believe they're actually accomplishing something. They lack the rigorous striking and conditioning - the harder side of taiji (it's yin and yang, right?). Mr. Rogan is right when he says they suffer from a form of mental illness. (The Chinese joke about such people - "tai ji Feng zi" - "tai ji nut case") A flat-earth emperor with no clothes. However, Mr. Rogan is off the mark a bit when he generalizes about the art. The lunacy is not the fault of the art. The same thing has happened in all the martial arts, even BJJ. See the movies starting to joke about the guy trying to tap out in a real fight? Again, the problem is not the art -- it's the method. the purpose. Back in the day -- after I came back from Shanghai where I trained a year and a half several hours every day with a body guard taiji specialist (I know, who hasn't, right) -- I worked out with a few guys down South and we used to head down to the MMA training gym, get our humility on, and take our taiji out for a test drive. Great days, good people. Some of the taiji worked. and some of it didn't at all and had to be re-thought or trashed. Kinda like any martial art. Kinda like any skill. Cheers.
I realize I’m replying to a very old comment, but I was hoping to ask if you would recommend Taiji for reconditioning my joints. I got into a bout of depression and neglected my body for 6 years after being fairly fit my whole life. Now I’m stiff as a board and keep getting injured when I try to train like I used to. Thanks in advance.
"Be water my friend"
-Bruce Lee
I believed in adaptability. Every style has its own strengths and weaknesses.
@@MartynLees just try it and see if it hurts or helps your joints. Also you can't train like you did 6 years ago if you are not conditioned for it. Good luck, have fun.
B
I love you man. When I spar, I know everything my opponent's are going to do but none of them have ever encountered what I do. It doesn't mean they still don't get in some shots, or that I never get thrown, but I have a whole list of techniques I can apply at will because they don't have the training to counter them. I agree with you that Rogan makes some good points, but it's all generic advice you can get anywhere, and as much as I love Joe, he's not qualified to give martial advice. My main critique of gym training for prizefighting, having sparred with many in that domain, is that they train to focus only on the opponent in front of them, and that usually produces poor results in the streets, where you have to be aware of everything in your environment. Prizefighting is sport conducted in safe spaces with agreed upon rules and safety procedures.
Joe: "have you seen this video of a chinese tai chi guy getting obliterated"
Jocko:"yup, yup, yup, yup, yup"
Joe:" here watch this real quick"
Sergio Garza it was more for the viewers sake, joe always used to show the videos he was discussing but in his current videos he has stopped showing them because of the hassle of copyright claims.
Ti.es have changed and the tables have turned. Watch the video " Chen Xu Push hands vs. Czech mma fighter. Theres also 4 takedown matches against wrestler's where the tai chi guys won 3 of them. Watch " Tai Chi ( tian long tai chi) vs. wrestling 01,2,03,04. Major game changer.
The problem with modern tai chi, is that practitioners don't go through any conditioning whatsoever. Back when internal arts like this were initially created, practitioners honed their bodies with physical training and sparring, allowing the moves that they were taught to be effective. Nowadays, it has devolved massively into an art that elderly people use to remain healthy.
I think by modern you mean 'your experience,' and by conditioning you mean learning 'application on another person'. (if I am wrong on either of those please correct me)
You should look for a different teacher if that is your experience. There is plenty of movement in the Daoist tradition that teaches application of movement and principals with a partner or sparer. Probably if you just do a local google search for push-hands you could find a group or teacher who could show you internal or external application (its very fun, much like playing).
You should know that tai chi is just one family of movement in a religion that is actually very much alive an well. You may find more affinity with Bagua-zhang as it is quicker and the martial application is a little bit easier to become acclimated with if you are a beginner to internal movement. Daoism would not seem so degenerated if you went to its home instead of expecting it to come to you, on the other side of the world.
I don't think you actually meant or intended any racism or ethnocentrism, even if your comment comes off that way. I would encourage you to take a fresh look, if you feel so inclined to expand your world view.
Tyler Cooper serious? racism and ethnocentrism is what you can read out of BRT's comment? What kind of weired pc-glasses are you looking through Tyler?
David, thank you, perhaps my word choice was confusing. I intended to say that I don't think that Benkei is ethnocentric or racist. Rather, I was just hoping to encourage a consideration that Daoism is a religion based on subtlety, but something vastly beyond the caricature of old people calisthenics.
They also only compete tai chi against other tai chi. Same for all the other Asiatic martial arts. That is why they all trash.
Not true buddy as someone that practised it for many decades you start conditioning from the first day this includes increasing the density of your bones deliberately so that you can better receive and redirect force as well as muscular conditioning. Your experience is strongly dependent upon what style and with whom you train with. Seek out Shaolin ti chi from a warrior monk!!!
I once saw a guy doing Tai Chi in the park. He was minding his own business, just doing the movements with no shoes on, when about a half a dozen of the local kids came up and started harassing him. Taunting him, doing what he was doing but in a mocking way, rubbing and sucking his toes. But he just kept going through the motions, ignoring the yelling as it got louder. Eventually the kids got bored of licking his girthy toes and left, but not before urinated in an empty soda bottle and pouring it on his head while screaming "Subescribe to Pewdiepie! Keemstar did 9/11!" I was struck by the Tai Chi master's calm and poise as he took all of this abuse, never stopping in his technique even while covered in teen urine. In concern, I approached him to see if he was alright, but it was just Onision, happy as could be. Apparently he pays those teens hundreds of dollars every week to do this. I knew then that no other martial art on earth could be as dangerous as Tai Chi.
“Mind must be master of the body"- that old monk in jonny english reborn
Ultimate patience, i see
Tai Chi isn't even for fighting in the first place! It's for body and mind healing
LOL
Tai Chi is an inner martial art. It is about mastering what is inside of you. It may have been an effective fighting style back in China centuries ago but it is not a 21st century combat martial art. It must be respected for what it is.
It can't be a flat earth because cats would've knocked off everything by now.
Very true...
Umm I don't get it maybe because I fucking hate cats and don't have anything to do with them so I cant relate.
Lmfao 🤣 so TRUE
drunk mike cringe 🤣🤣🤦♀️
Brilliant
Flat earth was mentioned? Time to read the comments
Not The Real Me - The earth actually _is_ pretty flat where I live...
Andrew Jackson Because anyone who has a basic high school level knowledge of science (at least in my country. Not too sure about the American education system) know that the earth *CAN NOT* be flat. The keyword being- can not. Not if, not whether, just can not.
Andrew Jackson fucking idiot 😂😂😂
The earth is shaped like a toilet you flat and round earthers are delusional
Andrew Jackson give us 1 good reason for the government or who ever or whatever it is are trying so hard spending millions if not billions of dollars to hide that flat earth of yours
If you give a good and logical answer for that we may actually believe that craziness lol
Wing Chun and Tai Chi can work. The problem is that they're not being taught properly.
You know I though Wing Chun was the only art that had tactile sensitivity and pressure sensing, but I think Tai Chi also has it. Maybe also Kuntao Silat. It seems to me that different Chinese Martial arts learned from each other, do you agree?
@@elumiomerk4013 Tai Chui Chuan has both regular and Blindfold Tai Chi Push hands training also known as sticky hands that teach how to yield and redirect force similar to wing Chun but even more sensitivity involved unfortunately the Tai Chi Community sometimes teaches this wrong too.
Martial arts, my teacher used to say, is something that's always evolving. He believed that if you're locked into a style that's 300 years old, then you're 300 years behind the times.
Everything changes, nothing is etched in stone. You either adapt, or get used to losing. Asia did a great job of getting the basics figured out, but I don't think it's meant to stop there.
Your teacher was 100% correct. Schools that did not adjust after 1994 and integrate grappling defense have limited utility in 2022. The serious Tai Chi teachers I know all teach boxing and grappling in addition to pushing.
The only distinction is that groundfighting is specialized and is considered suicidal in the streets, which is why the main domain of wrestling is sport and now prizefighting.
BJJ will also do very little for you against multiple attackers, and even I've been jumped by more than one guy. Footwork is way more important that groundfighting, unless the fight is in a cage.
i agree however I would add that any martial art can be adapted its more a philosphy of combat than a technique thats my belief anyway
Bruh, Asia invented Martial Arts and is still doing it.
Fake masters are like 1% of martial artists in asia
tai chi is great for the body man. Doing tai chi and yoga in the morning everyday is the bomb! If you want to learn how to fight in beat/kill people then go learn MMA.
JUDE JOESHORE if you wanna learn a good self defence, learn jiu jitsu.
I always thought jiu jitsu is about winning a fight, which is not really self-defense. It's kind of overkill.
Chris M jiu jitsu gives more options.
I didn't even know there were people who thought Tai Chi was a martial art😂
there was a poster just few days ago, that said something like "tai chi for everyone basics class. After the basics you can learn the self defense aspect of tai chi"
My wife's mother is a taichi master, and def doesn't regard it as a martial art. It is something else completely
It's still a martial art, but not meant for combat
It is definitely a martial art. Most people practice it purely for exercise these days though
@@dzieki_6569 it was definitely meant for combat. It’s just that most people interested in actually fighting these days practice modern combat sports (for good reason)
@@dzieki_6569 Aspects of Tai Chi flow very well with other combat martial arts
@@dzieki_6569 Of it is meant for combat, I got caught with diagonal flying one time with both feet in the air body folded in half and I remember specifically thinking oh damn that was good... but this is gonna hurt LOL since then I too have used my own version of wild horse parts it's main to take down countless people in sparring as well as other techniques from tai chi as well as other shaolin arts. It is a martial art it just isn't taught as one by many people.
Eddie bravo is entirely responsible for their being a big flat earth movement in the BJJ world.
Lol is there such a movement in bjj?
It's entirely possible
@Austin Batton of course i do but here in Germany very few people know who Eddie bravo is let alone his thoughts about a flat earth.
@Austin Batton what does him not knowing if BJJ guys believe in flat earth have to do with him training?
I think the prime mover may have been chronic head trauma.
Tai ji is supposed to be guard/clinch grappling.
Sadly, it has barely survived as such, and people only do form.
@Paul Schramm They do the same in American Tae Kwon Do and Shotokan. They like to teach the 'hammerblock' as a block... and it's not. You can't block shit with it. They even teach "Your hand goes back to your side to get ready for another punch" Ugh... no, the form simulates if you have grabbed their hand and put them in an armbar. Same with the tai chi 'mystical hand waving' wasn't about a 'soft palm strike'. It was a "Hey, I have your foot, now I'mma twist it and flip you over". But nope, nobody knows the applications to these forms anymore.
@Paul Schramm jiu jitsu is not a one-trick pony LMAO. Wouldn't be in MMA if it was. Tai chi isn't even a pony, it's like a frog waiting to be stepped on.
Devil's Advocake so do you know how to properly apply the forms? You sound like a true master/expert in tai chi. Honestly curious.
Paul Schramm but in the early days of mma there were almost no rules. People WERE trying to kill you. Even in today’s mma, your opponent is trying to kill you, but there are more rules. Early days of mma proved brazilian jiu jitsu beats all other forms one on one. But the later years showed you need to be well rounded. Because a striker with knowledge on grappling and submission holds/joint locks can avoid takedowns and keep the fight upright. But one of the absolute pillars of fighting is bjj. Are you arguing that tai chi is more effective in a real fight? Curious why you believe that.
@@breaknfiction21 but mma develop by a han chinese mate
that's like a yoga instructor challenging an mma fighter.
I practice gun fu. Its the ultimate martial art.
Orange Rightgold i practice anthrax fu it is way better
i eat fufu
I do pupu
James Slater 😂
James Slater lol
I know that tai tea is good
Nah mate, that's Chai Tea
XxTheMetalistxX xD Chai tea after Tai chi Lmao xD
😂😂😂
I've trained Tai Chi and Chinese traditional martial arts for over 15 years. Joe, you're absolutely right, I would not want to get into a ring with an MMA or BJJ fighter. I'm sure I would get decimated. However, Chinese martial arts are based on the idea that there are no rules, no referees, only survival. Therefore, strikes to the pressure points- knees, armpits, eyes, throat, etc. are what I would use in a self defense situation, along with the element of surprise, tricks and traps. I am not a believer in the "magical" nature of chi (neither are most other practitioners I know) and actually, I find that idea to be quite ridiculous. Rather i believe that it's about physical and mental balance and harmony. The moves of Tai Chi however, can be useful as many of them are actually designed as joint locks (Chi Na) and other self defense moves. The idea is that if you can't do something slow perfectly, it's useless to you to do it fast . Bottom line for me is that I find Tai Chi and Kung Fu to be highly beneficial for the mind, body, spirit. That is why I enjoy them.
so a tai chi guy can beat a mma or bjj fighter in a no rules street fiht?
Right and still cma cant do the job right for which it is designed for. That support from styles that work is needed. I got a hard punch with boxing. If you have that every strike is effective including eye jabs
@@Supermomo2007 yeah this guy is clueless. Doing 15 years everything wrong is still wrong😂. I wonder why people are proud of time
@@dayman161172 @Supermomo2007 One who is trained correctly, without a doubt.
@@Supermomo2007 No. It entirely depends on how much your train, and your skill differential vs the other guys, assuming you actually know how to fight. The key point here is that if MMA didn't take place in a cage, no one would be talking about MMA. (Nearly all the groundfighting in MMA takes place against the cage. Am I lying? That's why Judo, when they bother to take notice, can always come back around and re-establish dominance:)
Joe “ Alot of people have never been in a real fight” Rogan
I've worked in a psychiatric health facility for over three years, and although I do have vastly more knowledge about the matter, at the end of the day it feels like the longer I work there the less I know about Human Mental health.
as Jocko Willink says, "its a gun, concealed carry". That's how I defend myself. I workout and have strength for everyday use, defending myself and my family, 45 acp.
joe " my jiujitsu master is #1 flatearther on the planet" rogan
This is old vid, but I gotta set the record straight. Tai chi as we have it today is basically an exercise and performance art. However, these modern iterations did 100% originate from legitimate and effective fighting arts. If you look at existing videos and compare early 20th century tai chi masters to the tai chi champions of today, you can actually see the progressive shift occurring.
And an important point that's often overlooked is that tai chi forms (and any traditional forms really) were only the first step in a larger training process. Generally, you'd go from sets in order to learn the motions and how to use your body, then training with partners in rehearsed routines, then finally to free sparring.
The reason why free sparring wasn't used from the start, as is seen in our modern fighting sports, is because many of the techniques were potentially high damage or lethal if uncontrolled, e.g. groin strikes, eye gouges, oblique knee kicks, hits to the base of the neck, etc. So it only made sense to let people really fight once they had full control over what they were doing. This is especially true when learning a bladed weapon.
So when you look at modern tai chi and think that can't hurt anyone. You're right, because it's not supposed to. It's a training step that's supposed to lead to other things. However, for those who understand what it is, there's still an incredible amount of martial knowledge and wisdom hidden under what look like soft and innocuous movements.
True it did come from original fighting arts but how many people in at least Chinese martial arts actually do free sparring
Taichi began to degrade as martial art when Yang Chengfu simplified taichi into an exercise that can be done by everyone while in the past, Taichi was meant for martial artist for its demanding exercise. Yang banhou one of legendarry taichi practitioner is very versatile taichi practitioner that in a fight he was not only chopping his opponents neck but also breaking his arm. Also keep in mind that in the past, they (Yang banhou and yang Jianhou) are trained very harsh. His father trained them so hard that Yang Jianhou (father of Yang Chengfu) try to commit suicide several times. However, the pinnacle of degradation of Chinese Martial Art was happened when Culture Revolution, many martial art practitioners at that time were being tortured physically and mentally and some skillful practitioners even commited suicide or cannot physically move anymore because of the persecution.
Do you believe in flat earth?
@@ricceniza6046 Irrelevant. What is the point of that question?
Wutang tai chi was used against shaolin, I don't know about their lineage today, but they teach in england
@@ahmadnurzam7402 he's implying that you're gullible
@@ahmadnurzam7402 Lmao the fact that you didn't immediately say no is very telling.
tai chi used to be very serious martial art. it got changed about 100 years ago into the art we know it today. but there are people out there who can use tai chi to fight seriously. but they are the ones who actually practice against all manner of realistic competitors. people don't get that chi (which just means the feeling of energy) is a health and healing power, not really a fighting aspect. BUT, if you are an older martial artist, developing chi can help you stay strong and healthy as you get older. I personally used tai chi to fix my knees, after years of damage and abuse from karate and other sports. that, is high level self-defense. keeping yourself healthy and full of vitality. for martial arts, tai chi is much more suitable than yoga.
no, it was never a serious martial art, stop making up bullshit on the spot to save your fantasy
Richard Shapiro Jews can't fight
Combat Tai Chi......or Sun/Chen mixed in w other arts are useful.
Henry Ford tell that to the Egyptians and the Jordans and the syrians
Henry Ford look up Daniel Mendoza
Sadly the fighting styles behind tai chi are pretty much lost but the forms are relaxing.
The truth is if you dont like being punched or kicked hard and aren't prepared to accept that as part of fighting or self defence then it doesn't matter what type of martial art you learn
I have a uncle who has practised multiple martial arts for 45+ years. Black belt Karate, not sure how high he got in the rest Judo, Jujitsu, Wu shu, many others. In the 70s he would go all over States doing comps. and demos. Tai Chi is what he been doing for 25 years. In his mind it's the best. It's all in who's teaching you. He showed me some things that work well. For instance a head lock with a Eagle claw on the throat. U spin the hand 180 and the Opponents pretty much dead. He took what he thought worked best and combined it to him.
But he will say you better learn how to fight on the ground. I wouldn't mess with him.
Also he was the the youngest person in Va at that time to get busted with distribution of illegal substance at 12 years old. At 9 he started moving coke from Florida to Va. After his time served he got into martial arts and it saved his life.
He served time at twelve years old? Sigh 😕
I earned my 2nd degree black belt in taekwondo and it has helped me in the past but I learned the hard way that it’s really only effective against people who can’t really fight at all. Ended up having to defend myself at a bar and this dude just happened to know a bit of BJJ and yeah didn’t go too well for me. So now I know I definitely need to work on my ground game so I don’t get whooped again lol. When my son is old enough I’m gonna put us both in BJJ classes.
Gracie came out in 1994 and set the world on fire, so it's insane that in 2022, EVERY MARTIAL ARTS SCHOOL ON THE PLANET IS NOT TEACHING GRAPPLING DEFENSE! It drives me nuts. But don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Ground fighting in the streets is suicidal unless you have buddies to back you up, so my advice is use what you learn in BJJ for grappling defense, improve your footwork, learn some western boxing, and reserve your kicks for the opponent's knee.
BJJ is an amazing martial art, but why in the hell would you want to go on the floor and do ground game in a bar? If it's 1 on 1 and you 100% know it's gonna be 1 on 1 then fair enough, but in my city in Scotland, I know some of his friends are gonna join in if it gets on the floor and you are gonna get destroyed with other guys kicking you or stamping on your head on the floor or hitting you with chairs on the floor. Judo would be a much better way to go, never go on the floor in a street fight imo. It's madness
Probably better to learn to walk away. Best teach your son that too, it will be the best advice you can ever give him.
Key point is that real tai chi training used to involve getting punched, kicked, thrown and grappled, but today, it's mainly taught and practiced as a health exercise by non-fighters. That can have high utility against opponents without serious training but, if you want to use Tai Chi for fighting, you have to spar, grapple, and it's useful to have been in some real fights.
Second point is that even a generation ago, the real-deal were still training 10 hours per day. Very few people put in that kind of time anymore. But there's a big difference between a legit Jujitsu master who has trained hard their whole life and people who go the the MMA gym a couple days a week. So don't kid yourself. Regardless of which art I practice and which art your practice, if you train 5 hours a week, and I train 5 hours a day, I'm not worried about having to fight you.
Final point is that nobody fights in slow motion so you still have to be able to box and defend against grapples. In my direct personal experience, if you have superior balance and footwork, you'll be able to hold your own against pretty much anyone.
In the words of Bruce Lee “Someone who has been boxing and wrestling for one year, can beat a life-long martial artist” so no, It indeed does matter what art you practice, not just how much you trained, some martial arts are flat out better then others, wake up.
Tai Chi (meaning Grand Ultimate Fist) is indeed a fighting art. Sadly over the past 100 or so years, that concept became extinct because most of the masters who knew how to use it for fights are long dead.
It would never have worked against modern fighting styles . A boxer or wrestler or kick boxer or Muay Thai fighter or any of the major fighting forms would blast them BJJ too what tai chi move is gonna help you in the guard of any mid tier BJJ fighter
@@munchingpickle623 true thats why im training wrestling and boxing with my kungfu. Chinese martial art has to adapt. Kungfu was always adapted and improved in the past why stop now?
I've read an old Chinese book (in English), and the author already said, back in the 30s, that Kung Fu in general had lost effectiveness around the year 1900, where because of a revolt in China people did not want to associate with fights and began to emphasize forms only...
This book was about tai chi, and it said tai chi was NOT A FORM, but something to train chi, which according to his explanation was how to improve blood circulation, teach your body to move continuously, give balance, teach your body to react unconsciously when you need to react quickly and you don't have time to think, the ways you used to fight were the normal styles...
Tai Chi was a supplement to improve the functioning of your body and normal art to work better... but with that mystical theory of chi... because it wasn't the scientific age yet...
That's why they said that it took a long time to practice for tai chi to be understood, that's when you understood how to relax the muscles that are not being used, focus, eliminate unnecessary movements, it's not d different from what is done in MMA today, but today it is done with a scientific approach...
Today you train how to rest to endure the fight until the end, how to hit the opponent first by making smarter moves, how to relax, cleanse your mind and focus, etc...
Taichi was the psychological part and efficiency of movements at the time...
@@PauloSilvaX do you know the name of the book by any chance ?
It's no entirely extinct, just that most masters are lazy, and stop working hard once they get their credentials and open schools, and very few practitioners today are willing to put in the time b/c financial rewards aren't there. So the only people today really doing it are the ones who do it for reasons beyond money and ego, purely to preserve and advance the art in every generation.
Joe and Jocko always classics 👍🏾
Jacko is spot on with wrestling as a great base for MMA- it’s a great starting point but you need boxing and BJJ as well. Wrestlers have the toughness and competitive edge that really helps.
Wrestling is great, but don't forget that these guys are also on the bandwagon with BJJ as the ultimate martial art, no matter how many times Judo takes notice and show up to correct that view. Wrestling is good, but Judo is better, imho, and I suspect it's largely because of the institution of the Kodokan, which allows all the best practitioners in the sport to exchange information and continue to advance it.
My first adult fight I was taken to the ground on pavement by a collegiate wrestler, and although I "lost", I inflicted *significantly* more damage b/c training for the mat is not sufficient for the kinds of things people can do in the street.
When training for sport you're conditioning yourself to fight within a set of agreed rules, and this usually becomes an albatross around the neck if the kid is not an exceptionally gifted natural fighter.
I just started taking Jiu-jitsu because of you. Thank you for everything you do!
I’m starting next week man I’m really looking forward to it
because of who? no, context in your statement sir.
Christoph who do you think fuck face
Chris Bradley lol someone was triggered. It’s going to be ok don’t let people upset you so easily.
Chris Bradley whatever you say
The Tai Chi "master" looked like a mummy dressed as a ninja 😂
Tai'Chi masters are healers, and do not have high attack power. It was foolish.
Haha
@Tai Chi Tube Still being delusional ain't yah?
@Tai Chi Tube Explain why I am lying please?
@@VincentMMALife ua-cam.com/video/oWATDOXIILo/v-deo.html
@@cfG21 No bjj was shown in that video. But hey it's a little more realistic because tai chi is a grappling art, not a striking art what many people think.
As a US Army Veteran with PTSD. The veterans affairs have helped me with classes of tai chi. It does help with meditation and focus as well as getting better with my mental. 🙏
yes, it's a martial ART. it's good for the mind.. and it's not a bad base.. but to use it as your sole style in a fight is reckless
@Tai Chi Tube no, reckless if you use it as your only form of martial art.
@Tai Chi Tube not at all true. i have trained in military combatives, trained martial arts all my life, and am currently training in Krav Maga, Muay Thai, and BJJ a few times a week. Karate, Taikwondo, Kung Fu, Wing Chung, and Tai Chi are all good as a foundations and bases for a well rounded style... but none of them should be depended on solely in terms of Self Defense. they have their time and place.. but even Bruce Lee said "an athletic person with 1 year of wrestling and boxing training could defeat a life long trainer in Kung Fu... that absolutely goes for a karate black belt, TaeKwondo Black belt, and Tai Chi as well.. self defense situation, especially against someone with a well rounded mixed martial arts foundation could very well just blitz and destroy a person with just "tai chi" training
@Tai Chi Tube no you're absolute right, I forgot about the long list of respected and feared, infamous tai chi ufc champions.
Obviously your not a golfer.
What is called Tai Chi was originally a martial art and largely based upon a type of combat wrestling. Obviously meditation and forms do not prepare one for free fighting. However, please note that Ramsey Dewey, a former MMA fighter and now trainer based in Shanghai, describes having met with one versed in the original art. He says that the old master was quite proficient.
Wrestling in general was integrated into Chinese martial arts to promote combat readiness in troops. Wrestling matches could be held without serious injury, unlike dueling with weapons or boxing. That's part of why Judo has been so successful as a sport and has such high prestige. But we believe Tai Chi originated in Chen village, and Chen style is known for extensive striking in addition to standing grappling, so it's a good bet that boxing was always a part of Tai Chi. If you want an effective martial art, you really need to train Tai Chi for pushing, Bagua for grappling, Hsingyi for striking, and some Shaolin to make your body strong so you can take hits. For me, it's box, box, box to set the opponent up, and only use Tai Chi applications that the opponent gives me, when they inevitably go off balance. It's also given me the ability to wear out every opponent I've ever faced, regardless of their conditioning, in both sparring and real fights. It all about minimal expenditure of energy, which is why we are generally unable to do it properly when we're still young and can rely on our physical strength.
Traditional Tai Chi most resembles traditional Okinawan Karate, which is to say "standing grappling with punches, kicks and throws." These arts emerged at roughly the same time, but diverged in their development subsequently. The key modern distinction is that real Tai Chi and real Wudang in general never go force-against-force.
I seem to find you everywhere Poet. Still an ignorant retard I see. Make a habit of ignoring everything this bigoted freak has to say; you'll thank me later.
5:21 Joe did a great Eddie impression there.
Tai Chi is a great supplement to training as you get older. When you get in your 50s and 60s, hard training like heavy bag work and sparring damages your joints and causes too much inflammation to be viable - you really need to quit training. But Tai Chi maintains balance, flexibility and leg strength in a way that enables you to defend yourself for years (provided you can fight in the first place). But as a primary fighting art? You'd have to be VERY good, and then it would only work against an untrained and inexperienced fighter. All you really have is a few circular blocks and a palm strike.
Yup
late 50 i guess
Loving all the armchair MMA champions on here
Literally every decent martial arts teacher will say or says that it's not about fighting. It's about meditating, looking into yourself and disciplining and training your mind and body.
😂 my blackbelt bjj ,mma, wrestling and kungfu coach dient said that
No. They don't say that. Life isn't the karate kid. Those things are nice bonuses but it's a waste of time without practical application
Tai Chi should never be used for defense. It is not a defensive art it is for healing, meditation, and flexibility. Chi is the energy around us all that determines whether or not a person is ill. Keeping your chi in balance keeps you healthy it is sad that someone tries to use it as weapon. Train with defensive weapons to protect yourself
Why are so many people bashing Tai Chi? It was a legitimate martial art used to beat the fuck out of people. Just because modern practitioners don't train to do that anymore, and as a result can't. Doesn't mean "it was never a real martial art" Theres a reason why it was there and why its still here. Not saying its better than MMA, and the master that got beat up was kinda meh as well. But theres no reason to discredit the martial art like that.
Pesudo exactly, it’s like if some taekwondo practitioner was saying he couldn’t be defeated and this other guy challenges him and beats the shit outta him. It doesn’t mean taekwondo isn’t effective, just that the practitioner was full of it
Well don't generalize that far. There are plenty of MMA Thugs that are nice lol. Its important to talk specifics, and have an open mind is all I think.
Durr
Tai Chi and Qi Gong as well as Wing Chun can help improve your martial arts as well as help your mental health. A person who believes a style beats another style is wrong. Like Ip Man said it's not the style that wins it's the person. Jujitsu is a strong hard style. I'd love to go on the Joe Rogan show and talk about marital arts.
Taichi when trained right, and fought in a right way, it's actually a standing grappling and wrestling style.
It takes aspects of Shuaijiao (Chinese wrestling) and mystified it, So you need to practice Taichi, WITH Shuaijiao.
Shuaijiao gives you the chance of resistance and strength training as well as experience in fights, Taichi is the cherry on top AFTER you mastered Shuaijiao, because it has some useful grappling techniques.
The problem with traditional martial art is that their foundation is still things like Sanda, kick boxing or muay thai, but due to the mysticism involved, a lot of the traditional martial art practitioners don't care about the fundamentals and just want to learn this mystical powerful style
Tai chi is martial art. In fact it is very complete combat system which includes strikes, kicks, throwing an grapling and also joint locks. It is very efective But (there is always "'but"") only if it is trained properly. 99% of the practicioners in the world perform only tao lu, the tai chi forms, which are very good for health and coordination but it is not enough to develop fighting abilities. So in that case mr. Rogan is right, it is some kind of yoga and meditation exercise.
I've been doing tai chi from a prominent private lineage for 25 years, and it's literally one of the funnest things that I do and I wake up early to do it on a daily basis. It makes my body feel infinitely more light, balanced and flexible, my mind much sharper and my moment-to-moment presence greatly enhanced. It's given me this weird, hard to explain sense of being connected to people, to the room I'm in at any given time and to the "source" of stuff... it's hard to explain.
At this point in my life it has become nearly a religious pursuit, but a fruitful religion without worship or any rules. I'm also a combatives instructor in the US Army, and a blue belt (should be much farther along after all these years) in jitz. I've trained MMA and Muay Thai off and on for several years and I've wrestled and dabbled in Judo and boxing. I've coached many people to success in that stuff and I have a small handful of medals that I really worked hard for.
In a fight, literally nothing I know about tai chi would even cross my mind. I would protect my head, control the range and angle, close the distance, take my opponent to the ground, gain a dominant position and finish the fight.
I can teach the old school, "legit" tai chi fighting "stuff" that you don't see on youtube, but I don't. Simply because if I want to teach someone to fight, I'm teaching them 1-4 from western boxing, a couple of solid kicks, 2-3 takedowns with some options and 5-6 high percentage submissions and then drilling the shit out of all of that with resisting opponents of various sizes and skill levels. The coolest chin na techniques in tai chi literally don't work if a dude who lifts weights flexes while you're twisting his shit. It only work's on a poor Chinese villager who has never eaten anything but rice and tofu in 500 A.D.
man that cool reply, very interesting! bullshito drives people crazy, you criticise another mans style and youd think you fucked his mom or something, people get so offended, so this very cool.
im a iraq vet been there for 80 years, got over 500,000 confirmed kills (rough estimate) and im trained in gorrila warfare.
try me bruh
Tia chi has been very useful for deflecting punches from drunken idiots, If people are filming you on their phones when you get into a fight the hassle of knocking someone out and police maybe getting involved/ court cases etc.. is too much hassle.
@Setting things, straight. been shot 53 times bro
The thing is, if its helps with feeling present in the moment, and you feel more connected to people & the environment most the time, and some of that time you're training and sparring, how is it that Tai Chi isn't helping you in combat? Something to think about
Who else is here after seeing the Robert Downey jr wing chun video 😂
That was clearly an unfair fight. The tai chi master never got a chance to settle his chi, otherwise he would have kaioken x4 kamehameha'd xu xaiodong across the room
It is a fact that chi is concentrated in the gut, which is why so many of them have a belly. Its full of qi 👀
Im older now, but had a commercial Karate Studio in the 80's. Started training in '68 at 11. In the late 70' & early 80's, i worked in Night Clubs in So Cal, doing Security. My father was a wrestler and Judoka. We were doing a form of mixed MA. When i opened my School, it was hard, because most students Weren't fighters. Some developed great technique, but would it 'work'?? They became stronger, more flexible, healthier, etc... Im sure that in a situation, they would have more of a chance than before, but who knows? You can't encourage them to go out & get into fights! There's no way of duplicating Fight or Flight. I've seen Very skilled Dojo fighters Freeze. I hate to admit it, but commercial Karate is the only sport, that you Hold Back!! You don't hold back, hitting a baseball.
Do it for Health reasons, for fun, for friendships. And if you're ever in a situation, hopefully, it'll kick in and help. 🤞🏼
Do aikido people say "chi"?
Yes, yes they do. It's in their name. Ki = Chi in Japanese.
き is not ち, come on dude wdym
You the type of guy who challanges conor mcgregor to a fight because you think boxing is fake.
@@user-ff5cb9do7j it's not a pronounciation thing. The Chinese character for chi (氣) is the same as the Japanese kanji ki (気) aikido (合気道)
@@user-ff5cb9do7j Qi is a chinese word pronounce as CHI. japanese people pronounce it as KI
The history on Tai Chi is interesting; where it came from, how it was passed down, and how it has been watered down thru the ages. Most people practicing it are clueless and are merely going thru an exercise. Many of these people have convinced themselves that this type of training is legit for self-defense. But, I have met a couple of people that train some Tai Chi concepts with a true martial arts intent, and it is very different. However, the success of most styles depends upon the practitioner...a Bruce Lee would have stood out regardless of style.
Like you say the success of 'most styles' depends on the practitioner, but so much of modern taiji has been introduced by teachers who have nothing more than 'lineage' and unfounded pseudo-spiritual nonsense to back them up that making a success of it would be equivalent to training in modern dance and then hopping into a mma competition. Your success will be mainly inspite of your training, not a result of it.
@PrisonCipher I would have to both agree and disagree with your logic. Versions of the styles you mentioned, or better yet combinations of them is what has been proven to work in current MMA competition. But there are watered down versions of each of those as well, and the athleticism of the practitioner most definitely matters. Case in point Bruce Lee coming from Wing Chun roots; Wing Chun may have given him his initial martial arts foundation, but his athleticism and open-minded willingness to adapt and adopt from other styles are what made him stand out...ahead of his time.
In my area it is taught almost exclusively by Hippies who only learned a small piece of the art, and talk about "energy" in a mystical context, or dudes who trained hard the first ten years and then started slacking as soon as they got their credentials. A lot of people "go to China" for a couple of months then come back and believe they've got it. But all that results in is they practicing without correction for decades, deepening their errors.
I trained with an acknowledged master with an international reputation 5 days a week for decades, and still only got a piece. I still have to "fill in the other parts of the tapestry" on my own. I still seek out colleagues and legit masters for critique, correction, and exchange of information.
"Tai Chi takes a lifetime." But those external arts only work until about the age of 40.
tai chi & qi gong imho is mainly awesome for meditation like yoga.
when i studied shiatsu, i would look forward to every thursday when we'd do a 30 min Qi-gong breathing meditation. it gave me such a noticeable buzz that for some strange reason it always gave me the urge to get high as fuck after class lol.
for self defense ill stick to mma.💪
for meditation i highy recommend
qi gong( pron. chee gung) ✌👍
If you enjoy your qi gong breathing, keep up with it. That is a good enough reason on its own. If you learn from a master, there is application to chi-gong, but you may need to practice it for a very long time before it is clear. Sometimes, it only makes sense to expect someone to understand application after they have been practicing for ten years, because it takes ten years of repetition to change the body enough that it makes sense to expect that movement to come up in self defense, and actually work. The ambiguous nature of the movement is generally subtle on every plane of existence, and similarly, must be absorbed though experience. ~I can tell you what an orgasm feels like, but you would rather just experience it to know what it means right? Looking to chi-gong for fighting application is like looking to a dictionary to understand what orgasm feels like. There is a definition, but it is not going to be satisfying answer for what you are looking for.
If you have a good teacher, it doesn't take ten years so long as you are reasonably healthy and balanced already. Even if you never understand the application but you do the movement, that is exactly enough to get the health benefit, so don't let ignorance or ambiguity discourage you in the least.
Cat 5 Suspension exactly, Tai chi is a slow breathing, position and meditation exercise and was never meant for combat. It should remain like that.
Okay... so lets go way back in time to when practitioners of Chan meditation came into contact with Buddhists, over 2000 years ago. The philosophies of Daoism and Madhyamika Buddhism found kinship in each other (think Chinese and Indians sharing mysticism, and keep in mind that Buddhism absorbed all the Vedic literature, especially vedanta philosophies. )
Daoist Tai chi and Buddhist Qi gong are like different trajectories in terms of building your condition for a desired purpose. A good way to answer your question would be for you to decide what you want to gain from practice, and can your teacher give that to you. If your teacher has students who can demonstrate movement and a quality of health you desire, that is a good indication. Qi Gong requires discipline, an enlightened teacher, and dedication, as well as self-sacrifice. Tai chi requires all of those things as well, but to a much lesser degree, so you can get away with being more lax in your practice, and you can reap the benefits of tai chi much earlier, almost instantly depending on who you learn it from.
Don't learn from a Chi Gong teacher who has never heard of Nae Gong, or they do not consider themselves a healer. Never learn from a tai chi instructor who can't teach you to incapacitate a person with one open-hand strike, or doesn't seem to constantly abide in a present bliss.
A good teacher is more important than the art itself. If they are worthy, they should be able to give you a strong and balanced body, mind, and spirit, and they should be able to demonstrate that they can teach all of those to you by embodying them personally. Aside from that, just do what you would practice. Learn tai chi if you would do tai chi every day... do chi-gong if you would do chi-gong everyday. The benefit doesn't come from 'knowing' how to do the movements, the benefit comes from embodying the movements from repetition.
When you hit air, your body reabsorbs the shock of the energy that would have gone into your opponent. Tai chi and Chi-gong are both foundations to teach you to reabsorb and cultivate that kind of energy by opening and closing the whole body in rhythm with your breath, instead of spilling it with arbitrary movement, the forms force certain pieces in your body to work together. Do what you will practice correctly.
Tyler Cooper i don't have anything to add, i just want to thank you for that perfect answer
I swear to god I got a tai chi ad after this video ended 😂😂
Wow. From taichi to aikido to flat earth to religion... Thats why i love joe rogan
esse mortem and all these topics in about 6 minutes :D
Taiji is the pure core of all martial arts. Anyone, at any level of any fighting art, can learn taiji and gain massive improvement and advantage. It's just not practiced with sparring and combat. Taiji teaching doesn't exclude basic guarding and striking. It's about balance, control and efficient energy transfer and projection. It trains you to carry energy and balance from one movement into the next in continuous flow. Can't do any harm to someones style surely?
Yes. But one of the major problems is the Tai Chi from today is not the Tai Chi from Yang Luchan anymore. Tai Chi, Choy Li Fut or Wing Chun, they have more or less the same roots but evolved differently. In Wing Chun there is a famous quote. The first students of Yip Man were street fighters, the second technicans, and from the third to this day are guys who profite from the reputations from Yip and the first generation students.
@@chrisbach1533 Read my post at the head of this thread from today. The 67/68 Combined Tai Chi contains roughly 25 fist strikes, 12 throws, 9 joint locks, 9 palm strikes, 7 finger strikes, 6 leg sweeps, 5 elbow strikes, 5 heel kicks, 3 toe kicks, 3 leg hooks, 2 arm breaks, 1 side kick. That doesn't include all the pushes, presses, and most of the techniques have more than one application.
You're not going to be able to do anything in a real fight without practicing with sparring and combat.
"Once I settle my chi you can"t even take me down..." I love this line. HAHAHA
centre not settled
@@lh2593 Thanks for correction. Still love it. :)
Same :-)
I don't even know what "Chi" is, but I do know that if I have superior leverage, you can't take me down.
It was recommended to me after my stroke, it’s a meditative exercise and helpful, nothing more.
I studied T'ai Chi after severe physical injury, when I physically couldn't do other forms, and it was great for helping me to focus and relearn how to pay attention to my movements to help avoid chronic pain. It has to take severe delusion to believe it could be a fighting style.
Tai chi is awsome, its just meant to train the mental aspect of martial arts, not for the combat aspect. It needs to be supplemented by an actual combat martial art if one intends to fight.
Tai Chi can be used for combat but you have to train for that purpose. My teacher said "10 years, 10 hours a day" for basic competency, which equates to about 36,000 hours or training. For this reason, many fighting schools also teach hsingyi striking and bagua grappling, because those arts can be used with some degree of effectiveness long before the student has any real technique.
Tai Chi Chuan literally means grand ultimate fist. It’s for fighting if you know what you’re doing.
China is a republic, says so right in the name!
*Tai Chi is more powerful than MMA. Why...*
Health, Career, and Relationships are true power in modern life, not combat. We don't live in a dystopian, forced gladiatorial, or post-apocalyptic world. Tai Chi won't ruin your relationships and career as a consequence of brain damage, face tattoos and ego-complex, befitting of McGreggor and Tyson. Tai Chi will improve your general physical and mental fitness (eg executive functions, working memory), allowing you to outperform others in school and work, where it matters. Ultimately, you will be more apt to survive than the 99% of MMA masters in the real-world.
Never said anything bad about Wing Chun when Robert Downey Jr was your guest
Its not the same
@@etienne2069 What do you mean?
Hold up didn’t Robert say he used it to help him go through his drug rehab and he knows it wouldn’t be useful in fights but it helps understand to control himself
@@asgardninja9674 wing chun and tai chi are two different arts nigga
The only problem is that people sometimes don't know how to practice Tai Chi well, because in general, I respect any discipline, any Martial art. Regardless of how useful or useless it is, I hope you understand this gringo neighbors.😌
I totally agree with you, I practice this beautiful traditional art and I use it to defend myself, not to fight
@@ElBoyacense2004 Yup. I didn't have a choice. Learning to fight was a matter of survival. Because I was always smaller than weaker than the people who attacked me, and because some of those attacks involved multiple opponents, if I'd learned a conventional external style, or even BJJ, I would have been seriously injured. Tai Chi, combined with bagua/hsingyi gave me the ability to survive until I could win. Once I could win, I no longer had to fight b/c there's no one one the planet who can force me to engatge--they don't have the footwork. 😃
I thought Tai Chai was like a workout not a martial art. This is like a yoga guy or a pilates dude trying to enter the octagon, sorry you can't bring the pilates ball for this one.
Originally it was a martial art but nowadays most people only practice it only as an exercise.
Kevin Huang lmao all it's good for is a stretch
it depends on the user not the art....humans...
nujiss jiss negative. If a martial art has majority of its people fail it's the martial art. If only 1 or 2 good people can do decent it's just that person is so good he can make something bad look decent. He's be twice as better if he did another martial art like muay thai
Wang style (the most spread in occident) is about slow and fluid movements. But each move is supposed to kill. The Chen style would be the one used for combat. I don't know about Wu style.
Thai chi is a form of meditation. Not focused on combat.
Arrya Willems there’s parallels and lots of movements that can translate to Martial arts applications. It’s similar to Yoga in my eyes. If yoga makes you more flexible and better conditioning for a fight that doesn’t mean your Style is “Yoga” martial arts .
Tai chi More like Die Chi amirite
Mike Tython 😂
Mike Tython
Thpinal
Ha! You sir just made my day. Well played.
thavage
do you know that Tai Chi is actually meant for fighting. it was used in they're wars for hundreds if not thousands on years. nowadays no so much
I have started getting into Tai Chi because I have a messed up back thanks to my previous job as a nurses aide. I am not old by the way but in my 30's however on that note I grew up taking Tae Kwon Do so I have been surprised to find that even though it's been over 25 years since I have done that some of the moves and stances are coming back to me. I would love to get my son into martial arts. He's 12 and I think it would be good for him.
I recommend Judo if the kid is interested in serious martial art. He's also going to need a boxing art, but there you want to be careful and avoid anything where they get hit in the head too often. Every martial artist needs to get punched in the face so that it doesn't come as a surprise. But if it's a regular part of training, there's a high risk of brain damage. I've known a fair amount of boxers and a few MMA fighters, and they all tend to be pretty "punchy" by their 30's. Prizefighting is not a good career choice if one has alternate economic opportunities.
My Mum say Tai Chi, that says it all. I did Wing Chun for a while, and it was aimed at self defence, more than fighting, and for that is was very effective.
I am a tai chi instructor and a practitioner. But I only practice and teach for health. Tai chi applications DO NOT work in a fight because there are just too many variables and a fight is just too dynamic. When younger students ask me to teach them the self-defense applications I always tell them to go learn jujitsu, wrestling, muay thai or boxing. I have yet to meet a single tai chi practitioner that can be effective in a fight. I think the effective application of tai chi in a fight has long been lost to antiquity. I don’t think there’s a single person in the world who truly knows how to fight with tai chi. For this reason I think it should be practiced for health first and foremost. ...my two cents.
you practice tai chi gong and not tai chi chuan, you are fake
I've seen it be effective many times and we still teach it as a martial art at Shaolin Kung Fu there is a reason they say "To enter the gates of Tai Chi, you must first pass through the halls of Shaolin"
kind of over-generalizing.
there are many tai chi practitioners who aren't all "wu-wu" and don't believe in stuff but train to the principles of the art.
structure, softness, awareness, leading your opponent. all of these aren't some magical "chi" soup properties, they're practical ways to be effective if you truly understand the principle and root it in your experience, the same way a wrestler might train to drive his force from the ground with his leg. also 1:13 many people do not train this in a way that's focused for straight up combat, many don't even train with a partner! and for some reason they believe they're some sort of masters and have zero respect for other arts, but that is no reason to mock the art (there are idiots in every field and on every side of any fence).
B.T.W no tai chi practitioner whose honest and isn't trapped in some illusionist story is ever gonna try to stand in front of double leg and just try to hardcore root himself in a wu-chi stance for example. maybe for training but never in a situation where the sparring is free form and somebody big and powerful is really trying to take you down and kill you up like that.
check out "Clear's Internal Combat Arts". a dude that has been training in martial arts for over 20 years and "Peter Ralston" who maybe is a bit more "wu-wu" then richard but IS talking honestly out of true self experience and is a true master of fighting, definitely recommend his books even if there quite hard understand but if you don't dismiss it as bullshit and truly open yourself up to the possibility that it is talking about something grounded and down to earth material then you will get so much out of it, but just like any other book you have to do the work yourself and these contain serious long kind of "kung fu" train your ass 10 hours a day for a year to even get decent, but it's worth it. (sorry for the small rant about peter ralston, love that guy)
i hope you were open enough to atleast check it out and maybe even take it as something that you don't truly know what it's about and be open to the possibility that you may have been wrong about it.
take care!
also richard clear has a great DVD out which i highly recommend called "The Art Of Sparring: How to Pressure Test Your Art"
Id like to see master wong fight in mma, you have to admit my dude has skills.
Does he have a record? Like has he won kickboxing matches or anything? If not, no I dont have to admit he knows what he's doing.
Unfortunately it is against the rules to grab da nut in MMA. So, problem...
@@BWater-yq3jx he'd get his bald head kicked off before coming near anyone's nuts in mma.
Ramsey Dewey calles him out, the perfect opponent for him.
@@bingbong6127 "I fear not the man who has practised 10,000 techniques, but I fear the man who has practised grabbing da nut 10,000 times!" 😄
"Its like a mental illness", that was funny
The reason Wing Chun rarely works in the ring is because of MMA rules. Wing Chun is meant to disable opponents as fast as possible not just knocking them out. Arm breaks, legs breaks or in a real street fight, Wing Chun is about either breaking the bones or killing them because street fights sometimes can result in bad injuries or death. A real Wing Chun master in a street fight will probably stomp your knee cap in or take your arm and snap your bones very fast. Also you dont Chain Punch to the face, its to the rib cage.
If you're talking street fight, a god damn eye poke or a kick to the balls is probably simpler and equally effective. Fuck, considering there's no rules you can just bite, choke and pinch. Wing Chun, according to your comment, is a fancy version of street fighting.
You’ve been watching too many martial arts movies Trevor
I don't think martial arts are fake but martial artists are doing disservice to their art. I mean martial arts were basically use to survive and make a living, it was a job that could get you killed at any time. Martial artists used to fight and kill. But how many of them do you see fight today? Even is you practice MMA, if you have fought in your life, you will get your ass whooped. MMA is superior in terms of the fighting experience that comes with it when being taught. When martial arts start putting their art through the same experience, i think they will rediscover the effective part of their arts.
Aikido is great for basketball! Because it helps you understand momentum, energy and how to redirect a Defender so you can get around him!
Momentum, energy, and redirection are things you can learn in any grappling art, not just from aikido.
@@czr4752 yeah well I'm telling you as someone who was actually good at basketball that it does help more than other martial arts because the fundamental principles are the same...
@@bryantnonya8704 Can you elaborate? I’m not debating yet, I’m just curious
I’ve done tai chi for years, it’s great but in all my fights being able to take more punches than my opponent is what won
You must be bad at it
@@liang3102 Nah taking the most punches definitely is the trait to win fights. Watch Ali Vs Frazier 1 and 3
@@anon2234 yes doesn't matter how good a fighter is, you have to be able to withstand force. In real Tai Chi Chuan, there is Nei Kung. This teaches the body to receive force. One can practice Gong Fu till old age, but without Nei Kung it is useless.
@@anon2234 Depends on what you are tanking, tanking punches is ok, but good luck tanking a submission maneuveur.
Donnie Yen should have fought that MMA guy
Vivek V You do know that Donnie Yen is a kickboxer, has a black belt in Judo and a purple belt in BJJ right? And has experience in like a dozen other styles. He may have never fought competitively but he's legit.
Salim Ras no, hes not fucking legit. Hes a 54 year old man that never fough, how does that pass of as legit in your brain?
His mother is a Tai Chi hall of famer & has own her own Tai Chi learning institute, Tai Chi was his first art.
@00RIPTOR - donnie yen's mother did wundangquan - which is MMA of kung fu - taiji, bagua, xingyi, baji and wudang sword
the MMA guy is Xu Xiaodong, and he deliberately wanted to debunk fake kunfu that misleads people to think they can defend themselves in dangerous situations. He is pretty great.
Great discussion Joe Rogan and Mr Jocko. IMO no legitimate tai chi master would put themselves or tai chi out there as a modern day fighting art. And as a tai chi practitioner I would define tai chi as being a moving meditation that is good for overall health and wellness. In addition tai chi can aid the body in healing from injuries. Peace Mr Joe Rogan and Jocko
I feel like kata in karate should be viewed the same way. Obviously, you can train karate in a way that will be useful in fighting, 3 of the goats were karateka, but its ok to use it as a moving meditation and just have fun too.. I hate how mma guys. Especially the bjj guys feel everything has to be "useful in the streets"... not everyone is an asshole who gets themselves into fights all the time
@@drew123994 it's not about getting into fights on the street. Nothing like disrespecting a load of people because they don't see the merit in dancing masquerading as a martial art instead of actual combat sport.
1:58 What Jocko said about having proper protocol really shows his training and understanding of how to diffuse situations and how each fighter is actually representing really different lines of history and traditions, the greater political issue that arose from this.
Aikido is usefull because it teaches you how to fall on the ground without hurting yourself.
Ai-“KI”-do - not Ai-“chi”-do. The answer to the question presented is in the name.....
(in Japanese the word is “ki” in Chinese the word is “chi” both referring to the same thing).
It literally means air lmao
Yeah and it must have been Tai chi based on the "chi grounding" or "centering" their chi
Chi is real. It can be used to detect, like feeling what your opponent is going to do, or feeling where the next strike is coming from. Practice Chi Control & take MMA classes, you'll be unstoppable.
I read that Tai Chi wasn't created for fighting but an exercise that took inspiration from martial arts training. It's like an ancient version of Tae Bo which practically did the same thing but used kick boxing moves. I tried it, takes a lot of discipline to control your breathing while moving your body really slow. I don't know how to explain the feeling, it's like concentrating on where the oxygen and blood flow over your brain and body while moving.
"I read that Tai Chi wasn't created for fighting but an exercise that took inspiration from martial arts training".
Well, i dont think that is true. The original founder was Zhang Sanfeng[San-feng] (western name order Sanfeng Zhang), and it was created for the battle field, which means using hands, feet, but also blunt and edged weapon.
But later Tai Chi went into different directions. What the Yang family did, ppl like Luchan[Lu-chan] Yang, his son Jianhou[Jian-hou] Yang, etc., had not much to do anymore with the stuff Sanfeng did, it became too soft and today Tai Chi is almost like Yoga.
@@chrisbach1533I just don’t see soldiers doing Tai Chi in the battlefield against opponents with spears, swords, crossbows and calvary. Also it was Chen Wanting that incorporated boxing moves to Tai Chi. It’s like Taebo, an exercise that’s inspired from Kick Boxing. In addition, ancient Chinese scholars record and document everything and there’s no documentation of it being used as for combat.
@@hangten1904 Dont disagree with your point. Even experts are in disput if Zhang or Chen were the founders of Tai Chi.
But we can agree Chen was a military general and what he did was for the military and not just for exercice.
So or so i think Chen Wangting(Wang-ting) is "historical" more legt as Zhang Sanfeng, because Zhang is almost a kind of mythical figure, and it isnt even clear when he exactly lived.
But so or so i think its fair to say Tai Chi today isnt what it was during the time of Wangting. I just realized after checking out some numbers that Chen Wangting (1580-1660) lived exactly in the same time as Miyamoto Musashi (1584-1645). Sad they never met, but of course it wasnt possible since China and Japan were like "locked up" during these times.
@@chrisbach1533 I would say maybe Zhang was the founder because he was a Taoist monk and the philosophy behind Tai Chi is Taoist? And then you have Chen who previously served in the military would add to it by incorporating boxing moves and assimilating Daoyin and Tuna into his practice (Chen style). From there, it would be followed by the Yang style and the Wu Style forms of Tai Chi.
So if there is a Tai Chi that was developed for fighting it would be in a later modern time, but for Chen, there's no written record of him using it for fighting during his time.
@@hangten1904 Ancient Tai Chi was for fighting. Look up Grandmaster Chang Dongsheng [spelled many different ways] who died in 1986, standardized Shuai Jiao, and taught a Tai Chi form to soldiers that was effective, and deadly, in the field. Most Tai Chi today is like shadow boxing and speed bag work in boxing - good for exercise, but not great in a street fight. You need more than simple push hands and sparring for Tai Chi to work in self defense, on the other hand most people don't want to devote 6 months to a couple of years to learn a Hua Jing move that can shatter an attacker's ribcage. Even Chin na techniques take years of study.
There is a saying in taichi classics that you can train 10 or more years in the art and get nowhere if you aren't training it right. The guy he fought practices "Thunder Tai Chi" it's not one of the 5 main schools and its most likely complete bullshido.
I think its unfair to consider the guy a master and that's the infuriating part for people who do train it for martial aspect. If you are an MMA practitioner it would not hurt your study to find a teacher who knows their stuff to get just one lesson from them to see what it's about and if it works for your personal style.
I trained muay thai, karate, grappling and I honestly say after finding my school and teacher I thought it was complete bullshit too until they showed me where I was going wrong.
Stop making excuses.
@@luvfreedom1470 I mean theres parts of the world where shaolin kung fu or tai chi or whatever is beating boxers asses and other parts where boxers win. There is no excuses there is just education. The way people like you think about other martial arts it just stupid. In a way its just like boxing technicalities, if you train with the right teacher and mindset you will be the better boxer same as other martial arts. The way you think about asian martial arts is like saying "boxing is same everywhere, Floyd Mayweather could grow up learning boxing from a guy who doesn't know the right shit and if he gets beat to shit by street fighters then boxing in general is shit because boxing is same every where if one boxer fails that means the whole boxing martial arts is bad"
Kareem Z Great points, Kareem! I was going to mention that (within the realm of boxing) Floyd Mayweather is an expert that has been training since he was a child. The philly shell style is said to be one of the most difficult to master, and so many have been knocked out and utterly destroyed while attempting to use it. With the way some people think, they might say “oh that style doesn’t work” yet in this case we have evidence that it does with boxers such as Floyd (among others). I was once taught “how you train is how you will fight” and see that the training method, the quality of the student and teacher/coach along with their ability to understand each other is of utmost importance.
@Tai Chi Tube yeah I'll get back to my cage where my fight system actually works in real life. Good luck with your flying squirrel ball sack fu bullshit.
@@luvfreedom1470 ua-cam.com/video/oWATDOXIILo/v-deo.html
I did TaiChi as a young kid and it saved my ass twice. I didn't know any other martial art. Out of nowhere, a dude tried to jump me. I saw him way before and blocked the strike immediately, the dude was mad surprised and just went his way. Second time was during a concert when someone tried to push me into the moshpit, I did another move I was training for years (but at full speed) and the guy flew away. This time, it was a very basic turn with my body, which could be learned or trained in any other self-defense system. In a ring-situation, 1:1, I would never have had a chance; so my point is: All I learnt was becoming aware of my surroundings and nullify unjustified strikes against me, which I was able to do. I personally think this better than sending someone to a hospital or worse. What I'm saying is: don't take TaiChi at face-level, just because the movements are slow. However, I wouldn't even dare to fight a dude like Francis Gannou (as an example), but then again, violent random behavior on the streets is ususally quite different and not like in the ring either... I think Mr. Rogan actually should do TaiChi, I'm quite sure it's good for him, and even improve his fighting skills.
He knew what was gonna happen but for the sake of truth.... True Warrior even got kicked out of dojo worked all his life in. Respect to him support with sponsoring him🙏
i practiced a whole suite of Chinese martial arts but i always saw them as good exercise and nothing more.
it was your choice. i practice chinese martial arts as fighting systems.
Well you're a logical person.. these people out here trying to do magic karate are gonna end up hurt some day
He was successfully practicing the art of taking his opponents anger and harmful intent into his own body. Probably won't try it again very soon though.
Joe constantly talks about street fights as if they are ring fights. Like all street or bar fights start out with people on one side of the room and an announcer talking about what style each person will be bringing to the fight. MMA has really brought an unrealistic idea of fighting to the world.
well put. i like the sport, but it is just that. ju jitsu is great, when mixed with striking arts. you cannot grapple every body-weapon part. to me it seems ju jitsu in actual practice outside of a ring would be most effective if you were losing. like when you are lying on the ground and someone is kicking you and you grab the leg and twist into some sort of joint lock.
Christoph truth. From security work and a very small bit of bouncing/ bar scene I’ve not seen too many people (i can’t remember any right now) that fully went to the ground. My partner at work just got out of a 5 year streak of bouncing and says he can count the times on both hands he let it drop to the ground. Striking will almost always come first. Again not saying it’s not worth the time to practice. Just simply that most situations (especially in public) will dictate too many other variables to allow rolling on the ground for an arm bar.
On another note, Joe makes references to “classic” martial arts as being out dated, but I would bet both my nuts that if someone took a roundhouse or side kick from Joe (from his classically trained days of TKD) it would be detrimental to their status HAHAHAHA so he’s kinda a perfect example and contradiction to his own argument.
I've looked into training in Tai Chi knowing, in advance, it's not meant for fighting. I'm just looking for a form of exercise where weights etc aren't involved after 3 back surgeries and 2 wrist surgeries, including a full fusion. I just want to be able to stretch and loosen my muscles. Anyone thinking it's even remotely good in a fight is nuts