I harp on this because I see this happen all the time but think in 3 dimensions! Hypnotic Pattern is a 30 'cube with a range of 120', so you can cast it 40' high in the air above your paladin engaged with the Frost Giant, the paladin will be unaffected since it starts 10' above them but it will get all creatures taller then 10' such as the Frost Giant.
@@smbakeresq meaning you don't need to center it Above the Paladin, you could have it centered directly on the Paladin, and have that square be the 'safe spot'. But you could do either/or if it's just a Large/Hugh creature you're trying to dazzle.
Just going to pipe in here to mention one of the most amazing features of Slow: it is worth at least a 25% reduction in effectiveness against enemy casters. Arguably much more. I got an enemy lich to spend two turns casting a spell. It's also effective against wackadoo enemies that don't have eyes. My DM is surprised by its effects every time I cast it.
Regarding Sleet Storm and others like it: You can cast an area of affect spell at a point you can't see, you need a CLEAR PATH, not a clear line of sight. You can cast a Fireball or such into a sleet storm just by stating how far you it to go in. As a DM it is good sport when your creatures are in a Sleet Storm or Fog Cloud or others like it to just move your creatures in straight line out of the affect towards the PCs. Don't overthink it or metagame it, in the example Trolls would just charge out. A very intelligent creature with an ability like Levitate might just go straight up. Let the PCs have their spell work.
Agreed on DM'ing most creatures in a very straightforward manner. Only enemies who are noted to be particularly intelligent, cunning or combat-savy should use unusual or unexpected combat tactics (beyond initial set-ups that come natural to them - like hiding in their terrain). Playing creatures with an INT score of below 10 as tactically as possible is metagaming by the DM and very quickly leads to playing *against* the players, not *with* them !
One thing I didn't quite understand. How does the Sleet Storm spell reduce movement to a third of normal? I understand a halving thanks to difficult terrain. How does it work?
The main difference is that an Arcane Trickster's main ability is sneak attack, so they are more likely to be attacking each round. Arcane tricksters will absolutely make use of shield and mirror image for defense. At 13th level I'm absolutely taking Hypnotic Pattern, and you can make it ultra effective if you use your cunning action to hide before you cast it (due to Magical Ambush)
@@TreantmonksTemple With a Ring of Invisibility, I've been contemplating swapping out Shield for Earth Tremor at 8th level, until I get Hypnotic Pattern at 13, then switch back to Shield at 14. I figure it would be fun to sneak among a group of enemies for a ground-pounding surprise attack.
At the fifth level the choice is really between Fireball or Hypnotic pattern. This really depends on the campaign, typically if most combats are with a lot of low CR enemies you go for Fireball, if there are few high CR enemies you go for Hypnotic. In my last campaign we were fighting a war against hobgoblins, the typical fight was a couple ogres, few shamans, one dozen hobgoblins. The cleaning power of Fireball, often cleaning the enemy even when saved, was absolutely necessary. The second spell is for counterspell or tiny hut, depending again from the DM. In my first campaign with a wizard in 5E the DM was super into interrupting long rest, and we spent most of our resources trying to protect our rest. Tiny hut was a game changer. However in the last campaign I played the DM is much more into giving us time constraints and let us be free to take as many long rests as we want - you have 7 days until the end of the world, if you want to sleep after every fight be my guest. In this campaign the Tiny hut would be completely useless.
Absolutely stellar content. I love the tactical analysis and the depth of thought. I would really look forward to the fog cloud video. Seems to me that if fog cloud heavily obscures your vision and heavily obscures the enemy’s vision you have disadvantage on the attack because you can’t see them but you have hidden attacker because they can’t see you. Essentially negating the point of the spell because everyone suffers advantage and disadvantage, netting not straight rolls. Also, a point about D-Door is that you can’t use it to teleport a downed creature because it requires a “willing creature” and Jeremy Crawford has said an unconscious creature cannot provide consent.
Love your videos and i am playing a wizard for the first time right now and your videos help me immensely . But still i gotta ask for MORE BUILD GUIDES those are so much fun .
@@TreantmonksTemple Amen, starting my first ever wizard too, a bladesinger, and these guides are very very helpful, any chance you'd give bladesinger some more love for guides? you did a bit of gish stuff recently, and it'd be cool to see how you'd work them or at least yell at people that they're a FULL WIZARD with a sharp stick, but they do play a little differently, so it'd be cool to hear what you think about how you'd play one out
@@sharkforce8147 To be fair, that probably is the best way to play it, though I've ended up as the front line tank of our party with the only real melee and very comparable health to the rest so far :^) I'm likely to die, here we go
@@anarcnamedjustin3451 I've been planning a bladesinger myself. It looks like using Xanathar's "Shadow Blade" -- first with the SCAG cantrips and then with your extra attack -- can give you good offensive damage (psychic!) though spell levels 5 or 7. Because of this, I'm thinking I'll use my combat concentration on that for a good long while and only gradually transition to non-offensive combat concentration spells through spell levels 4, 5, and 6.
@@bigdream_dreambig Honestly, I think shadowblade is a huge trap, you get more out of stuff like booming blade and flaming sphere combo, and remembering you're a wizard, if you want to be a shadow blade in your face killer, be an arcane trickster rogue or an EK fighter, especially when you come to 5th level spells, animate objects is just going to absolutely shit on anything shadow blade can do for you, TM's made a guide for bladesingers, highly suggest watching that, very good reason he talks down extra attack and shadow blade both generally
One other nice thing about Tiny Hut and resting in security, if a big monster tries to settle down outside of it, everyone but the caster can freely exit and re-enter the Tint Hut. So you can turn that ambush around while having a secure place to retreat back inside. Even if ruled that they can't re-enter, that still allows for archers to fire out while no one outside the tiny hut can target them. This naturally has some applications for intentionally creating ambushes, at least for ones where the cover provided by the hut and buff spells and wizardly crossbow archery are enough of a contribution.
On summoning as a Conjurer I have found it better to summon the elemental early. Even if they never see the BBEG or a tough fight they are saving party resources for later. Of course there is a small chance you could lose concentration very early and waste the spell, but otherwise they wil save enough resources to be worth it. Maybe not at front door, but certainly right after 1st short rest.
At these levels, I think Polymorph has given me the most trouble, because not only do you have to know when to do it tactically, or as "emergency healing", but also take into account the preferences of the other players. I often have found it rejected because they wanted to use their weapon more or thought that next round they might use a spell instead of Eldritch Blast. Even knowing which allies to keep in mind as primary Polymorph targets and who to only consider in a pinch hasn't been as intuitive to me compared to using many other spells.
Love your content! I have been eating up all the wizard related videos especially because I will be running a wizard in my next campaign which I am very excited to try out. Thanks for your guides; they've been giving me a lot more insight into a game and a nice starting point for using a full caster.
At these levels also, the Conjurers ability to teleport is often overlooked as a way to get out of dodge to keep concentrating. Once you get to 11+ a lot of creatures will be able to get to you with an attack anyway, but at this level a simple short teleport will do the job in many cases.
Another great video, Chris. A lot of good stuff here. You're right that we can't always prepare spells that target each saving throw. Even if we could, I don't know how useful it would be. Let's go back to that scenario where we lose initiative against the trolls, and by our turn it's already a chaotic melee. If we know they have weak wisdom saves we'll for sure target them with the slow spell. But what if we know they have pretty good wisdom saves and bad other saves; would that change anything? We're probably not going to target our party with a fireball, sleet storm, or stinking cloud because we don't want to hit our allies. I'm still going to cast slow and hope that a few of them fail their save. Of course the saving throw that our spells allow is still something to consider. But you're absolutely right that this shouldn't be our first or even second thing we want to consider.
Fireball is great for removing weakened foes or weenies but you're right, it's not really a control spell. Just the ticket against lower CR foes that punch above their weight and are still effective in Tier 2, though, such as orcs, hobgoblins, wolves, or the like. Also, friendly fire becomes much less of a problem if you happen to have protection, such as the Oath of Ancients Paladin aura or a Rogue with Evasion. At that point, it becomes a worthwhile trade to blast your allies if the exchange is good.
In terms of targeting saves, realistically very few creatures will have high strength and int, and in most cases you can probably tell just by common sense which would be high and low
If we're an Evocation wizard and the party is surrounded we can also use fireball and use our sculpt spell ability. That's in place of Slow and it feels more satisfying.
As far as targeting different saves, my rule of thumb is to avoid Poison damage and pass on any spells that target Con since most creatures have ridiculously high Con and those spells tend to be Necromancy spells which aren’t very good because for some reason WotC hates Necromancers. If I’m playing a Conjurer, I might consider breaking those rules and picking up the cloud spells because of that sweet Focused Conjuration ability.
I don't always pass on those spells, but I do take it into account when evaluating. Especially poison. Con saves average higher, but not all that much higher.
It can get pretty dumb if you managed to somehow get 20 dex + 20 int and then take the alert feat. 20 dex is silly on a Wizard, granted but still...maybe when rolling stats you just get lucky.
I don't know if it is already mentioned, but a better contender for Dimension Door in this case would be Thunder Step. Not only does it allow you to save a party member, but you can also damage the creature(s) that are surrounding them. Just be mindful that you don't accidentally damage your party members
It be great for a new wizard tips video that adds on to these with changes. For instance we have TONS of new summons, which will possibly greatly change how that works. Also we can now change cantrips on a long rest (comment for previous video). I'm watching these videos because I'm playing a bran new wizard and going with the scribes route. I'll have the ability to cast from my manifested book, and changing elements. The idea of targeting a weakness comes into play.. or preparing spells like dragonbreath, so that I have access to all basic elements when I cast a spell in that circle.. or preping a psychic or force spell, to adjust to those elements. Also, you are very much focusing on control, and buff/debuffs.. which typeof wizard would go with using that tactic, given all of the new subclasses that might benefit this playstyle.
Treantmonk is generally of the opinion that control, buffing, and debuffing are generally the best thing for a wizard to be doing at any given time, and doing damage is largely something to be doing only when your other focuses are already fulfilled. That is to say: the wizard is a flexible enough chassis that all subclasses excel in these areas, though a few add quite well to the functions above. Abjuration makes the wizard more durable, which is always good. Bladesinger does the same, but focuses on avoiding damage, not soaking it up; allows you to sometimes fill a role as an off-tank if you absolutely need to go into melee . Conjuration becomes better later on, allowing for a good deal of potential tanking via disposable minions. Divination stops you from taking crits, protects people from save or suck roles, and can force a failure on a major debuff. Enchantment makes otherwise horrible spells more useful via twinning, and allows a broader range of control, even potentially letting you avoid combat in certain situations. Evocation makes you a glass cannon that at least doesn't hurt your allies while pursuing that focus. Illusion has a wide suite of abilities which generally make your control options more flexible, and can even save you from using many spell slots that you might otherwise via changing old spells; however, this school is notoriously DM dependent, and the versatility could be needed to near uselessness given inflexible, unimaginative, or adversarial DMs. Necromancy allows you to have numerous disposable minions that can potentially take on and defeat powerful monsters for you, with the main limitations being number of bodies, morality, and how annoyed your DM and other players get by you clogging up space and action economy with 20 more medium-sized companions with shortbows. Has the nice option of stealing a high level cleric in the form of acquiring a Mummy Lord slave at particularly high levels, if your DM obliges you. Order of Scribes generally adds a great deal of utility by affording additional breadth of spells able to be used, assuming you have the resources, and gives added flexibility in scouting and spellcasting range. Transmutation... does _something._ It frees you up for an additional feat choice and eventually let's you heal a bit, as if you dipped in cleric? Shame the immortality option isn't really there. War magic gives you better initiative, meaning you can have a better chance of establishing control under optimal conditions. You're also slightly more durable, which could be nice. (I am not familiar enough with the physics wizards of Wildemount to make a comment on their abilities. Other than that Chronurgist seems better for wizards' primary roles.)
Friendly disagreement at 17:17 : the solution is to hypnotic pattern four trolls along with your cleric then hope the cleric succeeds with what is probably +6 or 7 to their wis save :) /s but depending on the situation that might not be the worst play. edit: realized that’s supposed to be a fighter which threw me off because I think that’s the phb image for a cleric. Either way you should be aware of the option, especially if it will allow you to target four high priority enemies where you wouldn’t otherwise have been able to (say you decided not to prepare slow or are worried about them saving quickly with high con)
Wish you’d made these videos before I’d already chosen to not pick up web and mirror image. Level 4 in CoS with levitate, phantom, misty step and suggestion. Finding it really hard to help the team in larger fights. Web would have been sweet and not having mirror image makes me fear the future!
Defensive polymorph can end combat. Back to the trolls. If this was in a narrow environment, change one out front into a whale/large water critter. It can't move, those behind can't advance, and target may crush several other foes. And HP pool is big enough that a sneeze won't de-morph it. Keep concentration up while you go a mile away. Or, morph into slow turtle and throw foe into a box or off a cliff.
At 15:00 I am also among those confused why each square takes up 15 feet of movement. I don't think heavily obscured effects movement speed at all. Also, maybe it's just me but I would assume that the trolls that were knocked prone would use their movement to stand up, which means at least the front rank would be able to move out of the area of the sleet storm, no?
One thing that Chris mentioned here that I don't understand is from the Sleet Storm section. Its been bugging me for a bit. Chris says that each foot of movement will take 3 feet because it is both difficult terrain and heavy obscurement. The only reference I can find for such a rule is from the 3.5 edition of DND, but this content is talking about 5e. Am I missing something?
Yeah, I just noticed and rechecked the same thing myself. That's a definite mistake. Sleet Storm is no longer anywhere near that size in the 2024 rules either, although obviously this video predates that change by many years. It's worth noting though.
Sleet Storm: Did I miss something in the spell? Where does it say in the spell, the enemy ends its turn when it falls prone. The enemy may continue to use the rest of its turn to conduct normal actions. ie: stand using half its movement, and other normal actions under the restrictions of the spell.
@@smbakeresq Gotcha. In Treantmonk's example with the trolls, he cast the spell and didn't move those trolls that failed their save nor do any other actions on their turn. I just thought it was misleading.
Brian Pickel although Sleet Storm grows in value if you have forced movement, you push them in and maybe knock them prone again. With a Paladin with Spirit Guardians up they are frozen if in both, their speed is halved and then movement cost is doubled.
@@smbakeresq Agreed, combined with other player ability/spells and conditions it is a decent spell. Just just cast by itself as the video suggested and ending those trolls turns prone might mislead players to its effectiveness.
tiny hut has a big tunneling problem. It is great to rest in bad weather conditions and against non-intelligent attackers, but an intelligent enemy can prepare nasty surprises for the now trapped inhabitants of the hut. Taking turns guarding the area will still be necessary during rest, so I don't think it is a solution for taking a long rest at any time anywhere as the video would imply
Hey Treantmonk! How's it going? Great video again and thanks for sharing! When you are preparing the videos on spells, could you make a bonus video on spells cast by Diviners? Because I know there are some spells that are not that great for other Traditions, but to the Diviner they are absolutely show stoppers! I'd love to see your comments on that topic. Thanks again!
I haven't recorded those vids yet, but my plan is to, with each spell reviewed, discuss if any subclass can use it to greater effect. P.S. You are most welcome!
This is a great flag. I'm a diviner currently, and while I agree with Treantmonk that disintegrate is a "meh" spell because a successful save is a bitter waste of a 6th slot, holy moly is it a nifty nuke to have in your pocket when you *know* it'll land.
I think the troll encounter is a bad time to use hypnotic pattern. Trolls have multi-attack, and a lot of hit points, and they are not known for their kindness to their own kind. I would think that a single troll could very believably use its action to wake three allies at the cost of some hit points.
Hmmm......with sleet storm, just because an enemy falls prone at the beginning of its turn doesn't mean it loses its turn. It can still spend half its movement to stand, then move, then dash. So the trickle effect is not quite as effective as your demo made it seem
Hi Treantmonk I have a question regarding 15:00 where Sleet Storm costs 3x movement. The spell creates difficult terrain which is 2x movement, but I can't find anything on where heavy obscurement affects movement. Where does the 3x movement come from?
Sadly, in the 2024 rules Sleet Storm is nowhere near the same size it was in 2014. They've swapped the radius and height of the cylinder now, so its 20ft radius, and 40ft tall. I'm not sure if this is a hard nerf or not, as it may make the spell more tactically flexible in many practical game situations. It's a tough call.
TM: what is your opinion on 3rd/4th/5th level spell picks for characters that are 2-3 levels behind on spell progressions due to multiclassing? In particular for Divine Souls and Lore Bards. For Divine Soul 5/Hexblade 2 I chose Hypnotic Pattern/Spirit Guardians at level 7, Haste (Twinned) at 8, Greater Invisibility (Twinned) at 9, Dimension Door at 10, Animate Objects at 11, Synaptic Static at 12. For the Lore Bard 5/Hexblade 2/Divine Soul 1 it’s Hypnotic Pattern/Leomund’s Hut at level 8, Healing Spirit/Counterspell at 9, Freedom of Movement at 10, Dimension Doors at 11, Animate Objects at 12, Force Cage and Circle of Power at 13. For context we have a Devotion Paladin that allows us to dual spam Hypnotic Pattern from any position, as well as summon dual Animate Objects with Crusader’s Mantle, two of our strongest plays. The other members are a Hexblade Arcane Trickster and a Hexblade Eldritch Knight primarily in charge of DPR and positional control via EB+Repelling Blast.
Christopher McKee Like I said, for my party setup Hypnotic Pattern is the go-to spell since we have access to Aura of Devotion. But yes, Spirit Guardians is the backup mook killer/dungeon clearer and also very good since my whole party has Booming Blade. More often than not though I only use it upcasted after my level 3 slots are gone. Haste and Greater Invisibility are more questionable, but they were requested by the party. I’m considering swapping them out for Counterspell/Revivify, but then I won’t have many things to Twin.
Are we assuming these are melee gish characters? If so, there's no short answer, this video is about god style wizards. Generally, spirit guardians is immense for a gish character, and well worth upcasting with higher level slots, however, mind your concentration. Gish characters REALLY need to layer those defenses, it's even more important because you tend to be an easy target.
Christopher McKee Twin Healing Words, yes, if two guys are down. I would never waste sorcery points on Cure Wounds. Hell my Sorc doesn’t even have Cure Wounds.
I dont know any Wizard players who start their prepped spells with their highest level spells and works down. Every one I know picks their prepped spells starting at SL 1
Watching this immediately after coming from the low-level Tactics video, I notice that if someone saves against the Fireball the average damages now 14, the same as getting off a cantrip plus a second-level spell, Flaming sphere did in the last video. So that gives some interesting perspective for me, to think of even a Fireball where every Dex save succeeded, as equivalent to a FS + Cantrip on 3+ targets. I doubt I'd feel good about them all saving but maybe I'll feel slightly less bad about it. The bigger thing is that this makes me wonder about other comparisons that can be made with higher level spells and how many iterations of lower level ones would be required to approximate the result.
This is especially funny because the Giant Ape has an Int of 7, and I know in one campaign I played in, turning the Paladin into a giant ape didn't change her Int at all.
I see that you mention wall of force in a lot of your videos, but I also see in the spell lists that there are a lot of different wall of X spells. Would it be possible to get a video explaining the diffference and advantages of the multiple wall of X spells that exists?
I'd still be really hesitant with those concentration nerf spells. I've seen so many cases where the caster puts up a concentration spell vs. a group... half the group save and then rush him and the concentration is broken barely costing the enemies a turn (sometimes not even). If the three trolls when at the wizard, that is nine attacks with reach and a really good chance that concentration is going down. I'd feel better with someone without a save -- like sleet storm -- which at least slows them so that they can't reach me for at least a round. Or... I'd want another party member able to buff me, hide me, or also slow them.
I don't see anything in the rules about difficult terrain and heavy obscurement tripling movement cost. Could you explain this please, is this a house rule?
My second tier wizards never have mage armor prepared when they go adventuring. I have them craft spell scrolls of mage armor to free up a slot. Of course that doesn't work in tier one because tier 1 characters are always too poor.
im playing in curse of stradh campaign as bard, most spells I had problem with using due to not workign on those specific monsters, undead and etc, just got to lvl 5, does hipnotic pttern work on them? When i started i had, tashas hideous laughter, sleep, couldnt use it anywhere due to they not being able to sleep or tasha not working.
Nice video, as always. I have a small request, if you don't mind: could you talk a little bit about uses for Wall of Force? I rarely play Wizards of high enough level to cast this spell, so I have little experience with it. One of two times I was able to cast it, the wall was circumvented by a bunch of flightless thugs - exactly the enemies the wall is supposed to contain! You know how they did it? They just helped each other to climb over it by throwing each other upwards. I was very frustrated. Wall of Force also seems very limited by the need to make "one flat surface". Sure, it can be made into a hemisphere, but it's only 10 feet, you can't trap an adult dragon or someone similarly big inside it. How can I improve my Wall of Force?
@Stefan Erwin Baumer I've mentioned 10 feet hemisphere, didn't I? It's very small, can't trap scattered medium foes or a single huge fore. Basically, it's not as powerful a spell as I was led to believe.
seems like you are misinterpreting 10 feet with a 10 foot radius, a 10 foot radius means from the center outward in every direction, so it would be 20 feet from end to end, which means it can capture huge and even gargantuan creatures... as to enemies being spread out, sometimes that is the case and you just have to deal with it, works the same for all fights... if there are 5 enemies and none of them are together then it is not a good time for fireball and other area of effect spells, but when they group up that is the time to strike
@@arcanerecovery2567 no, I'm not confusing 10 feet with 10 feet radius. Excuse me for expressing myself poorly. I'm pretty sure you can't fir a huge creature inside a 10 feet radius sphere, because the spell description state that if the force wall crosses a creature's space, the creature is pushed to one or the other side. And pushing inward would be impossible, because then the creature's space would be crossed by the wall on all sides.
@@arcanerecovery2567 10 feet radius is basically a cross shape, according to templates for spell effects in 5e. A huge creature is a square made with a side of three 5-feet tiles. It can't fit into 10-feet radius sphere without the sphere crossing the space of that creature.
@Stefan Erwin Baumer no, you can't. 10 foot radius sphere is a cross shape on the map. Huge creature is a cube that does not fit into that shape, the sphere crosses that cube. The sphere pushes away creatures whose space it crosses. It cannot push inward, because that way
Ya know, I'd given up on Wall of Force. I've used it like, 4 or 5 times for exactly the tactic you describe on different boss enemies, and every single time the enemy gets out within one round. The first time was admittedly my own dumbass fault. The boss in question was an "adolescent Purple Worm". DM had dropped it to Huge and lowered it's stats. It just...burrowed under the Wall of Force. Used it against a Demon and also later a Wizard enemy that both just Dimension Door-ed out. We as a party debated whether that was possible since the spell specifies that you can't astral travel away, but we agreed that DD isn't traveling through the WoF, but bypassing it via teleportation. Finally a Green Dragon that also just burrowed underneath it. So...yeah I don't really use it any more.
The thing about Wall of Force is that it is most effective against groups of enemies, which you can effectively cut in half, making combat trivial. Using it against a big singular enemy is not always smart, for exactly the reasons you mentioned.
Wizards really need to take a few days to make some scrolls for themselves before heading off to a difficult adventure. It’s just a day and a few gold to make a 1st level scroll and not much more for a 2nd level one.
Sleet storm causing 3:1 movement (Heavily Obscured & Difficult terrain)? Where is the Heavily Obscured blinded condition essentially causing slowed movement? I have looked all over the comments and rules and found nothing about this.
The hampered movement rule says that: “Difficult terrain, obstacles, or poor visibility can hamper movement. When movement is hampered, each square moved into usually counts as two squares, effectively reducing the distance that a character can cover in a move.”
I loved you wizard guide! But it seems the format has taken was the color coding. Is there anywhere I can find it where the color coding is still available?
Currently playing a wizard that just hit 9th level and my God choosing spells to prepare are hard. With a 20 in intelligence I can prepare 14 spells to prepare out of my 39 total spells known .
11:35 Hypnotic pattern covers a slightly smaller area than fireball, no? I'm guessing you meant that it affects them all, so the targeting outcome is essentially the same.
Correct on both counts. The actual area covered is technically similar (since fireball is technically a sphere), but in squares on the map it covers more area.
The way I count spherical aoes in my campaign I DM is that with a sphere is that I always cut off the corners of the same foot cube for a spherical spell (in the process of trying to arrange proper acrylic shapes)
TLDR The only meaningful hp is the last point of hp. If casting a fireball would not shift the action economy into your favour, use control spells instead.
I've played in several MMO type games, where there's no initiative- you just act in real time. The controller almost always decides a fight. Any fight where control isn't crucial, wasn't a threat to begin with. I know there's not a perfect analogy between real-time MMO combat, and d&d turn combat. But strategy is strategy, and are mostly the same.
@@wizard380 that's not because control isn't important. It's because there isn't any long duration control. When control is both purgeable, and only lasts for a couple seconds when it does work, then it's not really an option. I promise though, introduce something like Hypnotic Pattern, and it will almost instantly become the deciding factor in every fight.
Really depends on who makes the game. Control is important in DnD because the designers make it powerful with spells like Hypnotic pattern. It's less important in WoW because the designers make control weaker, probably because it would make PVP less fun.
@@ronaldeldonald which is an odd supposition, since WoW has never been particularly successful at its PvP, and many games that are centered around PvP and have been very successful, have strong control features. It forces a more strategic approach, and rewards disciplined teams -just like in D&D.
As a first time wizard player these videos are tremendously helpful with perspective in combat. But I'd like to hear opinions on spells that are versatile for OOC/rp . Focusing almost entirely on combat and survival seems kind of one sided to me. Am I wrong?
Not at all. I've been planning my first wizard characters and have had a similar issue. I find that what I've done has been to "rebel" against the various guides every so many spell selections and pick something useful or flavorful that's unlikely to be relevant to combat (like Disguise Self or Detect Thoughts). It's important to keep in mind that the game is pretty balanced and the level of difficulty is adjustable by your GM, so your character doesn't have to be some optimized machine. But these guides are still good because they help you know which choices have what kinds of impact.
Another thing to keep in mind is your are not limited to the spells you prepare. Scrolls, etc. Additionally, the spells you prepare to go to a fight, might not be the spells you prepare when meeting the Queen.
I'm probably wrong here but I was under the impression a downed ally couldn't be targeted by dimension door since they are unconscious and therefore not able to be willing. Maybe just a Crawford tweet I read somewhere. *shrug*
You are not wrong, Jeremy Crawford has indeed tweeted that an unconsious person cannot give consent for a dimension door. Personally, I think that's dumb. I'm Canadian, and we have a law called the Good Samaritan act, where a bystander attempting to help an unconsious person in good faith is considered to have consent. That makes more sense to me.
The best Wizard tactic is to make scrolls if able. This isn't always possible, but if it is a massive issue then play an Elf, 4 extra hours every long rest adds up. The biggest issue Wizards face is being underprepared because they need to always prepare certain spells (or regret the one time they don't). Let's take Treant's example of Shield, Absorb Elements and Mage Armor. From levels 1-20 that's 3 of your slots used to prepare these spells. And while you will be casting Mage Armor every day, Shield and Absorb Elements can be replaced with a scroll each (or multiple of each if you are able to stockpile). This is true for higher-level spells but just takes more time and money. The pen is truely mightier than the sword.
@@TreantmonksTemple The damage per target (33) is almost as high as cone of cold (36) or an upcast fireball (35), though with the more-generally-effective force damage type -- and better than Synaptic Static (28), though without the latter's debuff properties. Is there better damage per target at 5th level from another non-concentration spell that I'm missing? (Even if there is, I do still like the flavor for a bladesinger.)
@@bigdream_dreambig I think it's very stylish. Could be dangerous having to get in to melee range though. Enemies could have held actions, or other ways to snare you or reciprocate the damage.
@@dustinsmith2021 fair, but the circumstances where you would cast haste on a single target are cases where that single target is more than twice as effective as any other member of the party. For example if you have 2 casters you can haste a t-rex, which is very effective. Also if you know it is the last fight of the day against the big bad, hasting the paladin can allow then to burn through their smites at superspeed. But 95% of the time, you will want to concentrate on something else.
No, I can't really discuss every spell that's decent for Wizards, so I focused on some highlights. Haste is an OK spell for Wizards, though I would point out that the effect is fairly minor unless the target has a really big single weapon attack damage. Adding it to a vengeance pally for example, who has advantage on the attack, can smite, and may have a hunter's mark up and may be adding great weapon fighting as well, will be a lot for effective than throwing it on the Rogue for example.
Treantmonk's Temple Rogues with Haste can hold action an attack with their normal action and Sneak Attack with the Haste action, effectively doubling their damage.
Had a bit of a wiff with my first wall of force. Dropped concentration on polymorph to cast it which reduced an ally to low hitpoints again but allowed me to encase a shadow dragon in the wall of force. Then the dragon disintegrated the wall of force as a legendary action, then took its turn to roast the now un-polymorphed low hitpoints wizard and myself with shadow breath (Not a type absorb elements was helpful with). The breath killed the other wizard, almost killed me, then it flew away. In this situation leaving the great ape might have been better but I had no way of knowing the dragon could use disintegrate. It seems like to me this spell either feels like overkill or the scary thing can easily bust out. I am not sure when its okay to use this spell.
Yeah, Dragons generally don't have spellcasting, and definitely don't have it as a legendary action. It may have been a homebrew dragon, or your DM didn't like you shutting down the battle and the dragon became homebrew on the fly...
I dont think warcaster is that good. I normaly prefer taking proficiency in con saving throws because advantage boosts the average roll up by I think sth like 3.75 or 3.25 so at lvl 9 proficiency becomes better then advantage. The really hard encounters that make it important to have a good concentration save are in the late game so lvl 9 is not that important and if you maxed intelligence at 4 and take the feet at lvl 8 its only one more lvl. Also you get +1 to con and with a good planned character, that means your modifier increases also by 1 so the feat actually is better then warcaster at lvl 5 and if you take the feat at lvl 4 thats only 1 lvl until lvl 5. The other effects of warcaster arent as amazing as a +1 to con in my opinion. Lastly advantage doesnt stack.
Way overstating the power of Sleet Storm here, falling prone isn't their only action, they can just get right back up and still have half their movement. The Trolls would only take the save on their turn, since they never first enter it, then any on the edge would just move off, even taking 2 squares for 1, and the rest would move forward. At most 3 would be on the sheet on round 2, and none after. Also, they are never Prone on your party's turn.
Falling prone means using half their movement to get up, difficult terrain means using 10ft to move one square, I would've placed the effect further forward, rather than what he did, but it is still great for battlefield control. It's just way better against spellcasters, ranged attacker or any creature who's abilities require sight. Not trolls.
Just wanted to add that I have read your extensive guide to pathfinder wizards, and playing a campaign now with a conjuration wizard. It doesn't have your opinion on things like opposing schools or spell preparation for different levels. Other than that though it is very well done and I appreciate everything you've written on the subject.
The general principles can be adapted to pathfinder, but wizards are broken enough in pathfinder that extensive guides (beyond what has been done) would be overkill, especially with 5e draining the PF player base.
Is the 9 damage a spell level a rule of thumb you’ve developed over the years or is it something you’ve “mathed” out like your reliable damage standard? Asking to compare the experience of gameplay you’ve garnered over the years to the spell damage table the creators try to use as resource use guides in the DMG on pg 283
I actually created a damage graph on the old WOTC boards that charted spell damage by level and drew a straight line of what I considered "good" damage, which wouldn't have been exactly 9 points per level, but it was close. I use 9 as a very rough guideline. As a point of interest...a meteor swarm actually does 15.5 per spell level!
Treantmonk's Temple That is some pretty diligent and useful work, thank you for the quick reply. Also jeez meteor swarm. I’m pretty new to the game and have only really read about it and seen it on spell lists. When ever I think about it I can’t help but imagine an end of the world type scenario with slow motion explosions and heart wrenching choir music playing as the world is torn asunder.
It functions fine. It's kind of a poor man's wizard, less spells, less spell selection, missing the cool ritual magic mechanic, but overall, it can get the job done.
The cool ritual magic mechanic I'm referring to is not having to prepare rituals, while a Bard must have the ritual as a spell known. This means the bard will have significantly less spells to choose from when casting.
Treantmonk's Temple I agree there's less versatility but do the applications of basic inspiration and cutting words make up for it when filling a 'god wizard' role in your opinion?
Peter Osborne From personal experience the Bard list has many holes, and Magical Secrets is not quite enough to plug them. Bardic Inspiration/Cutting Words are hard to quantify because it depends on how many encounters you run. For my table, with 6-8 encounters per adventuring day, we have a Sorlock and a Bardlock split the load of a God Wizard, which is more effective in combat but still not quite as versatile.
It would be hilariously powerful... if it didn't require your concentration. Instead, it's just fairly good. Same reason that things like Blur and Protect from Energy are okay but not outstanding: if you're using your concentration just to defend yourself, that severely limits what you can do to actually contribute to winning the fight. Fly becomes less generally applicable than it appears on paper. If you're using it on yourself, it isn't foolproof; your enemies will have the ability to use attacks, spells, or other abilities at range increasingly frequently as you level up. And if you are in a combat where being in the air makes you untouchable, you could accomplish the same thing equally effectively with Levitate, a lower level spell. The alternative is if you are fighting enemies that can fly themselves *AND* you have a party member that has no way to contribute unless they get into melee, then Fly makes a lot of sense as a buff you can give them. And I would be remiss not to mention that of course Fly is useful outside of combat. But this video covers general principles that apply to MOST parties in MOST situations. Fly doesn't fit that bill.
What kind of sick fuck pits 6 trolls against 5 level 5 characters?!?!?! You have solid analysis but the hypothetical situations you use are insane... For reference, that's ~4x a deadly encounter.
I harp on this because I see this happen all the time but think in 3 dimensions! Hypnotic Pattern is a 30 'cube with a range of 120', so you can cast it 40' high in the air above your paladin engaged with the Frost Giant, the paladin will be unaffected since it starts 10' above them but it will get all creatures taller then 10' such as the Frost Giant.
good point!
If you center the cube on the Paladin, it actually doesn't affect them, with how Cube Shaped spells work. (From what I remember reading)
Nimoot that’s true but it doesn’t affect what I am saying?
@@smbakeresq meaning you don't need to center it Above the Paladin, you could have it centered directly on the Paladin, and have that square be the 'safe spot'. But you could do either/or if it's just a Large/Hugh creature you're trying to dazzle.
Nimoot it can’t be centered on him, everything in the Cubs is affected. He can’t be in the cube
Just going to pipe in here to mention one of the most amazing features of Slow: it is worth at least a 25% reduction in effectiveness against enemy casters. Arguably much more. I got an enemy lich to spend two turns casting a spell. It's also effective against wackadoo enemies that don't have eyes. My DM is surprised by its effects every time I cast it.
They also lose reactions so no counterspelling while slowed.
Your example with the Trolls is also a great example why Thunder Step is a good spell in the right situation.
I love the video. I’d like to see an updated one every 2 years!
Chris, why am I not surprised at you waking up at like 5:00 AM to post a video about wizards. I love it!
I actually post the video earlier (usually the night before, but sometimes several days earlier) and schedule the release time.
Ah, comon, you getting up at 5 to post it is way cooler! 😄
@@theMrLifehe gets up several days earlier though! 😮😮😮
Regarding Sleet Storm and others like it: You can cast an area of affect spell at a point you can't see, you need a CLEAR PATH, not a clear line of sight. You can cast a Fireball or such into a sleet storm just by stating how far you it to go in.
As a DM it is good sport when your creatures are in a Sleet Storm or Fog Cloud or others like it to just move your creatures in straight line out of the affect towards the PCs. Don't overthink it or metagame it, in the example Trolls would just charge out. A very intelligent creature with an ability like Levitate might just go straight up. Let the PCs have their spell work.
Agreed on DM'ing most creatures in a very straightforward manner. Only enemies who are noted to be particularly intelligent, cunning or combat-savy should use unusual or unexpected combat tactics (beyond initial set-ups that come natural to them - like hiding in their terrain). Playing creatures with an INT score of below 10 as tactically as possible is metagaming by the DM and very quickly leads to playing *against* the players, not *with* them !
One thing I didn't quite understand. How does the Sleet Storm spell reduce movement to a third of normal? I understand a halving thanks to difficult terrain. How does it work?
I have the same point of confusion as Breno. How does sleet storm slow down more than half here?
@@StarryxNight5 on a failed save they get knocked prone and will have to burn movement to get back up.
He said heavy obscurement would cost extra movement. Not sure if that is in the rules.
@@brenomatos8384
You have the most thoughtful D&D videos I’ve seen! I appreciate the depth of analysis you do. It’s obvious you’re a smart guy.
Now we're starting to get to the good stuff.. oh yeah..
Thanks for these videos and also your earlier wizard guides.
I'd like to see an arcane trickster version of this - with and/or without the ritual caster feat - since mid-level spells are as high as they get.
The main difference is that an Arcane Trickster's main ability is sneak attack, so they are more likely to be attacking each round. Arcane tricksters will absolutely make use of shield and mirror image for defense. At 13th level I'm absolutely taking Hypnotic Pattern, and you can make it ultra effective if you use your cunning action to hide before you cast it (due to Magical Ambush)
@@TreantmonksTemple With a Ring of Invisibility, I've been contemplating swapping out Shield for Earth Tremor at 8th level, until I get Hypnotic Pattern at 13, then switch back to Shield at 14. I figure it would be fun to sneak among a group of enemies for a ground-pounding surprise attack.
At the fifth level the choice is really between Fireball or Hypnotic pattern. This really depends on the campaign, typically if most combats are with a lot of low CR enemies you go for Fireball, if there are few high CR enemies you go for Hypnotic. In my last campaign we were fighting a war against hobgoblins, the typical fight was a couple ogres, few shamans, one dozen hobgoblins. The cleaning power of Fireball, often cleaning the enemy even when saved, was absolutely necessary.
The second spell is for counterspell or tiny hut, depending again from the DM. In my first campaign with a wizard in 5E the DM was super into interrupting long rest, and we spent most of our resources trying to protect our rest. Tiny hut was a game changer. However in the last campaign I played the DM is much more into giving us time constraints and let us be free to take as many long rests as we want - you have 7 days until the end of the world, if you want to sleep after every fight be my guest. In this campaign the Tiny hut would be completely useless.
Absolutely stellar content. I love the tactical analysis and the depth of thought.
I would really look forward to the fog cloud video. Seems to me that if fog cloud heavily obscures your vision and heavily obscures the enemy’s vision you have disadvantage on the attack because you can’t see them but you have hidden attacker because they can’t see you. Essentially negating the point of the spell because everyone suffers advantage and disadvantage, netting not straight rolls.
Also, a point about D-Door is that you can’t use it to teleport a downed creature because it requires a “willing creature” and Jeremy Crawford has said an unconscious creature cannot provide consent.
Yes, to really make use of a fog cloud effectively, you would need to use stealth. That way, enemies wouldn't know where to attack.
Assuming you are helping the creature, then it falls under implied consent.
And I have heard of people using disguise self while inside a fog cloud for all kinds of shenanigans.
Love your videos and i am playing a wizard for the first time right now and your videos help me immensely . But still i gotta ask for MORE BUILD GUIDES those are so much fun .
I agree, haven't done a build guide in awhile.
@@TreantmonksTemple Amen, starting my first ever wizard too, a bladesinger, and these guides are very very helpful, any chance you'd give bladesinger some more love for guides? you did a bit of gish stuff recently, and it'd be cool to see how you'd work them or at least yell at people that they're a FULL WIZARD with a sharp stick, but they do play a little differently, so it'd be cool to hear what you think about how you'd play one out
@@sharkforce8147 To be fair, that probably is the best way to play it, though I've ended up as the front line tank of our party with the only real melee and very comparable health to the rest so far :^) I'm likely to die, here we go
@@anarcnamedjustin3451 I've been planning a bladesinger myself. It looks like using Xanathar's "Shadow Blade" -- first with the SCAG cantrips and then with your extra attack -- can give you good offensive damage (psychic!) though spell levels 5 or 7. Because of this, I'm thinking I'll use my combat concentration on that for a good long while and only gradually transition to non-offensive combat concentration spells through spell levels 4, 5, and 6.
@@bigdream_dreambig Honestly, I think shadowblade is a huge trap, you get more out of stuff like booming blade and flaming sphere combo, and remembering you're a wizard, if you want to be a shadow blade in your face killer, be an arcane trickster rogue or an EK fighter, especially when you come to 5th level spells, animate objects is just going to absolutely shit on anything shadow blade can do for you, TM's made a guide for bladesingers, highly suggest watching that, very good reason he talks down extra attack and shadow blade both generally
Such a great guide. Thanks, as always, for the great content.
One other nice thing about Tiny Hut and resting in security, if a big monster tries to settle down outside of it, everyone but the caster can freely exit and re-enter the Tint Hut. So you can turn that ambush around while having a secure place to retreat back inside.
Even if ruled that they can't re-enter, that still allows for archers to fire out while no one outside the tiny hut can target them.
This naturally has some applications for intentionally creating ambushes, at least for ones where the cover provided by the hut and buff spells and wizardly crossbow archery are enough of a contribution.
On summoning as a Conjurer I have found it better to summon the elemental early. Even if they never see the BBEG or a tough fight they are saving party resources for later. Of course there is a small chance you could lose concentration very early and waste the spell, but otherwise they wil save enough resources to be worth it.
Maybe not at front door, but certainly right after 1st short rest.
At these levels, I think Polymorph has given me the most trouble, because not only do you have to know when to do it tactically, or as "emergency healing", but also take into account the preferences of the other players. I often have found it rejected because they wanted to use their weapon more or thought that next round they might use a spell instead of Eldritch Blast. Even knowing which allies to keep in mind as primary Polymorph targets and who to only consider in a pinch hasn't been as intuitive to me compared to using many other spells.
Love your content! I have been eating up all the wizard related videos especially because I will be running a wizard in my next campaign which I am very excited to try out. Thanks for your guides; they've been giving me a lot more insight into a game and a nice starting point for using a full caster.
Thank you!
Wow this is legit good content. Really great tactics and strategy here. I'm taking notes!
At these levels also, the Conjurers ability to teleport is often overlooked as a way to get out of dodge to keep concentrating. Once you get to 11+ a lot of creatures will be able to get to you with an attack anyway, but at this level a simple short teleport will do the job in many cases.
> In addition, they can't take reeeeeee actions.
Trolls can *always* take a reeeeeee action.
This is one of the best videos about wizard tactics! I would love to see what updates and things you've learn in these years.. :)
Another great video, Chris. A lot of good stuff here.
You're right that we can't always prepare spells that target each saving throw. Even if we could, I don't know how useful it would be. Let's go back to that scenario where we lose initiative against the trolls, and by our turn it's already a chaotic melee. If we know they have weak wisdom saves we'll for sure target them with the slow spell. But what if we know they have pretty good wisdom saves and bad other saves; would that change anything? We're probably not going to target our party with a fireball, sleet storm, or stinking cloud because we don't want to hit our allies. I'm still going to cast slow and hope that a few of them fail their save. Of course the saving throw that our spells allow is still something to consider. But you're absolutely right that this shouldn't be our first or even second thing we want to consider.
Fireball is great for removing weakened foes or weenies but you're right, it's not really a control spell. Just the ticket against lower CR foes that punch above their weight and are still effective in Tier 2, though, such as orcs, hobgoblins, wolves, or the like. Also, friendly fire becomes much less of a problem if you happen to have protection, such as the Oath of Ancients Paladin aura or a Rogue with Evasion. At that point, it becomes a worthwhile trade to blast your allies if the exchange is good.
In terms of targeting saves, realistically very few creatures will have high strength and int, and in most cases you can probably tell just by common sense which would be high and low
If we're an Evocation wizard and the party is surrounded we can also use fireball and use our sculpt spell ability. That's in place of Slow and it feels more satisfying.
Great video you answer a lot of questions for my 5th conjurer
Great video! Awesome guide! Please do more of them, I can’t wait to see the next one
As far as targeting different saves, my rule of thumb is to avoid Poison damage and pass on any spells that target Con since most creatures have ridiculously high Con and those spells tend to be Necromancy spells which aren’t very good because for some reason WotC hates Necromancers.
If I’m playing a Conjurer, I might consider breaking those rules and picking up the cloud spells because of that sweet Focused Conjuration ability.
I don't always pass on those spells, but I do take it into account when evaluating. Especially poison. Con saves average higher, but not all that much higher.
Yes. I agree with all your points. And yet I still think you are underselling Animate Objects. It's also a great utility spell. And so much more.
This video is the reason I cant not choose the warmage subclass: the initiative boost is so vital
It can get pretty dumb if you managed to somehow get 20 dex + 20 int and then take the alert feat. 20 dex is silly on a Wizard, granted but still...maybe when rolling stats you just get lucky.
I don't know if it is already mentioned, but a better contender for Dimension Door in this case would be Thunder Step. Not only does it allow you to save a party member, but you can also damage the creature(s) that are surrounding them. Just be mindful that you don't accidentally damage your party members
Excellent video! Perfect timing my Dark elf wizard just turned 6th level so it's time for notes... School is now in session : )
Counter spell and Slow love it ! Definitely taking them now : ) and in the campaign I am in I foresee they will be very usefull, thank you.
It be great for a new wizard tips video that adds on to these with changes. For instance we have TONS of new summons, which will possibly greatly change how that works. Also we can now change cantrips on a long rest (comment for previous video). I'm watching these videos because I'm playing a bran new wizard and going with the scribes route. I'll have the ability to cast from my manifested book, and changing elements. The idea of targeting a weakness comes into play.. or preparing spells like dragonbreath, so that I have access to all basic elements when I cast a spell in that circle.. or preping a psychic or force spell, to adjust to those elements. Also, you are very much focusing on control, and buff/debuffs.. which typeof wizard would go with using that tactic, given all of the new subclasses that might benefit this playstyle.
Treantmonk is generally of the opinion that control, buffing, and debuffing are generally the best thing for a wizard to be doing at any given time, and doing damage is largely something to be doing only when your other focuses are already fulfilled.
That is to say: the wizard is a flexible enough chassis that all subclasses excel in these areas, though a few add quite well to the functions above.
Abjuration makes the wizard more durable, which is always good.
Bladesinger does the same, but focuses on avoiding damage, not soaking it up; allows you to sometimes fill a role as an off-tank if you absolutely need to go into melee .
Conjuration becomes better later on, allowing for a good deal of potential tanking via disposable minions.
Divination stops you from taking crits, protects people from save or suck roles, and can force a failure on a major debuff.
Enchantment makes otherwise horrible spells more useful via twinning, and allows a broader range of control, even potentially letting you avoid combat in certain situations.
Evocation makes you a glass cannon that at least doesn't hurt your allies while pursuing that focus.
Illusion has a wide suite of abilities which generally make your control options more flexible, and can even save you from using many spell slots that you might otherwise via changing old spells; however, this school is notoriously DM dependent, and the versatility could be needed to near uselessness given inflexible, unimaginative, or adversarial DMs.
Necromancy allows you to have numerous disposable minions that can potentially take on and defeat powerful monsters for you, with the main limitations being number of bodies, morality, and how annoyed your DM and other players get by you clogging up space and action economy with 20 more medium-sized companions with shortbows. Has the nice option of stealing a high level cleric in the form of acquiring a Mummy Lord slave at particularly high levels, if your DM obliges you.
Order of Scribes generally adds a great deal of utility by affording additional breadth of spells able to be used, assuming you have the resources, and gives added flexibility in scouting and spellcasting range.
Transmutation... does _something._ It frees you up for an additional feat choice and eventually let's you heal a bit, as if you dipped in cleric? Shame the immortality option isn't really there.
War magic gives you better initiative, meaning you can have a better chance of establishing control under optimal conditions. You're also slightly more durable, which could be nice.
(I am not familiar enough with the physics wizards of Wildemount to make a comment on their abilities. Other than that Chronurgist seems better for wizards' primary roles.)
Friendly disagreement at 17:17 : the solution is to hypnotic pattern four trolls along with your cleric then hope the cleric succeeds with what is probably +6 or 7 to their wis save :)
/s but depending on the situation that might not be the worst play.
edit: realized that’s supposed to be a fighter which threw me off because I think that’s the phb image for a cleric. Either way you should be aware of the option, especially if it will allow you to target four high priority enemies where you wouldn’t otherwise have been able to (say you decided not to prepare slow or are worried about them saving quickly with high con)
Finally! 😍
Wish you’d made these videos before I’d already chosen to not pick up web and mirror image.
Level 4 in CoS with levitate, phantom, misty step and suggestion. Finding it really hard to help the team in larger fights. Web would have been sweet and not having mirror image makes me fear the future!
Playing my first wizard in curse of strahd these have help sooo much!!!
I would say dash in a sleet storm is another dex save at disadvantage.
Have you ever tried to run on ice?
On ice, it is hard. On sleet? It is fine.
Defensive polymorph can end combat. Back to the trolls. If this was in a narrow environment, change one out front into a whale/large water critter. It can't move, those behind can't advance, and target may crush several other foes. And HP pool is big enough that a sneeze won't de-morph it. Keep concentration up while you go a mile away.
Or, morph into slow turtle and throw foe into a box or off a cliff.
At 15:00 I am also among those confused why each square takes up 15 feet of movement. I don't think heavily obscured effects movement speed at all.
Also, maybe it's just me but I would assume that the trolls that were knocked prone would use their movement to stand up, which means at least the front rank would be able to move out of the area of the sleet storm, no?
Correct on both counts.
One thing that Chris mentioned here that I don't understand is from the Sleet Storm section. Its been bugging me for a bit. Chris says that each foot of movement will take 3 feet because it is both difficult terrain and heavy obscurement. The only reference I can find for such a rule is from the 3.5 edition of DND, but this content is talking about 5e. Am I missing something?
He made a mistake
Yeah, I just noticed and rechecked the same thing myself. That's a definite mistake.
Sleet Storm is no longer anywhere near that size in the 2024 rules either, although obviously this video predates that change by many years. It's worth noting though.
Sleet Storm: Did I miss something in the spell? Where does it say in the spell, the enemy ends its turn when it falls prone. The enemy may continue to use the rest of its turn to conduct normal actions. ie: stand using half its movement, and other normal actions under the restrictions of the spell.
It doesn’t, they just might not have any actions or movement left.
@@smbakeresq Gotcha. In Treantmonk's example with the trolls, he cast the spell and didn't move those trolls that failed their save nor do any other actions on their turn. I just thought it was misleading.
Brian Pickel it is misleading.
Brian Pickel although Sleet Storm grows in value if you have forced movement, you push them in and maybe knock them prone again. With a Paladin with Spirit Guardians up they are frozen if in both, their speed is halved and then movement cost is doubled.
@@smbakeresq Agreed, combined with other player ability/spells and conditions it is a decent spell. Just just cast by itself as the video suggested and ending those trolls turns prone might mislead players to its effectiveness.
tiny hut has a big tunneling problem. It is great to rest in bad weather conditions and against non-intelligent attackers, but an intelligent enemy can prepare nasty surprises for the now trapped inhabitants of the hut. Taking turns guarding the area will still be necessary during rest, so I don't think it is a solution for taking a long rest at any time anywhere as the video would imply
Thanks for this outstanding video.
Hey Treantmonk! How's it going? Great video again and thanks for sharing! When you are preparing the videos on spells, could you make a bonus video on spells cast by Diviners? Because I know there are some spells that are not that great for other Traditions, but to the Diviner they are absolutely show stoppers! I'd love to see your comments on that topic. Thanks again!
I haven't recorded those vids yet, but my plan is to, with each spell reviewed, discuss if any subclass can use it to greater effect.
P.S.
You are most welcome!
@@TreantmonksTemple Awesome! Can't wait for it!
This is a great flag. I'm a diviner currently, and while I agree with Treantmonk that disintegrate is a "meh" spell because a successful save is a bitter waste of a 6th slot, holy moly is it a nifty nuke to have in your pocket when you *know* it'll land.
I think the troll encounter is a bad time to use hypnotic pattern. Trolls have multi-attack, and a lot of hit points, and they are not known for their kindness to their own kind. I would think that a single troll could very believably use its action to wake three allies at the cost of some hit points.
Thanks!
Hmmm......with sleet storm, just because an enemy falls prone at the beginning of its turn doesn't mean it loses its turn. It can still spend half its movement to stand, then move, then dash. So the trickle effect is not quite as effective as your demo made it seem
Hi Treantmonk I have a question regarding 15:00 where Sleet Storm costs 3x movement. The spell creates difficult terrain which is 2x movement, but I can't find anything on where heavy obscurement affects movement. Where does the 3x movement come from?
Maybe the difficult terrain + prone stacked
@@asiantrashpanda I did some digging he was actually incorrect and has commented that he made a mistake
There is a rule for hampered movement, but idk if people are aware about it. Basically heavy obscurement causes you to move 10ft when moving 5ft
@@valentinrafael9201 I think that's homebrew
Why difficult terrain and heavly obscurement costs 3 foot to move 1 square? Can anyone tellme where's this rule in the players handbook?
Sadly, in the 2024 rules Sleet Storm is nowhere near the same size it was in 2014. They've swapped the radius and height of the cylinder now, so its 20ft radius, and 40ft tall.
I'm not sure if this is a hard nerf or not, as it may make the spell more tactically flexible in many practical game situations. It's a tough call.
TM: what is your opinion on 3rd/4th/5th level spell picks for characters that are 2-3 levels behind on spell progressions due to multiclassing? In particular for Divine Souls and Lore Bards.
For Divine Soul 5/Hexblade 2 I chose Hypnotic Pattern/Spirit Guardians at level 7, Haste (Twinned) at 8, Greater Invisibility (Twinned) at 9, Dimension Door at 10, Animate Objects at 11, Synaptic Static at 12.
For the Lore Bard 5/Hexblade 2/Divine Soul 1 it’s Hypnotic Pattern/Leomund’s Hut at level 8, Healing Spirit/Counterspell at 9, Freedom of Movement at 10, Dimension Doors at 11, Animate Objects at 12, Force Cage and Circle of Power at 13.
For context we have a Devotion Paladin that allows us to dual spam Hypnotic Pattern from any position, as well as summon dual Animate Objects with Crusader’s Mantle, two of our strongest plays. The other members are a Hexblade Arcane Trickster and a Hexblade Eldritch Knight primarily in charge of DPR and positional control via EB+Repelling Blast.
For your divine soul, you pretty much only need spirit guardians. Most other concentration spells are a distraction.
Christopher McKee Like I said, for my party setup Hypnotic Pattern is the go-to spell since we have access to Aura of Devotion. But yes, Spirit Guardians is the backup mook killer/dungeon clearer and also very good since my whole party has Booming Blade. More often than not though I only use it upcasted after my level 3 slots are gone.
Haste and Greater Invisibility are more questionable, but they were requested by the party. I’m considering swapping them out for Counterspell/Revivify, but then I won’t have many things to Twin.
@@M0ebius honestly, one of the best uses of twin for a divine soul is cure wounds.
Are we assuming these are melee gish characters? If so, there's no short answer, this video is about god style wizards. Generally, spirit guardians is immense for a gish character, and well worth upcasting with higher level slots, however, mind your concentration. Gish characters REALLY need to layer those defenses, it's even more important because you tend to be an easy target.
Christopher McKee Twin Healing Words, yes, if two guys are down. I would never waste sorcery points on Cure Wounds. Hell my Sorc doesn’t even have Cure Wounds.
I dont know any Wizard players who start their prepped spells with their highest level spells and works down. Every one I know picks their prepped spells starting at SL 1
When it comes to spell preparation (just as a demonstrate in the video by prepping in each direction), I'm Chaotic Neutral.
Personally I tend to prepare spells in a fairly random order, preparing the highest priority spells first regardless of level.
Watching this immediately after coming from the low-level Tactics video, I notice that if someone saves against the Fireball the average damages now 14, the same as getting off a cantrip plus a second-level spell, Flaming sphere did in the last video. So that gives some interesting perspective for me, to think of even a Fireball where every Dex save succeeded, as equivalent to a FS + Cantrip on 3+ targets. I doubt I'd feel good about them all saving but maybe I'll feel slightly less bad about it.
The bigger thing is that this makes me wonder about other comparisons that can be made with higher level spells and how many iterations of lower level ones would be required to approximate the result.
I love dimension door. But as the party's only "small" character, I simply can't justify adding it to my spellbook. Am I off the mark on that one?
Nope. DD is not nearly as good for a small caster
Just gonna chime in and mention that with legendary resistances, CR10 creatures might not be failing those saving throws at all
If you turn the party fighter or rogue into a giant ape, can anyone tell the difference?
This is especially funny because the Giant Ape has an Int of 7, and I know in one campaign I played in, turning the Paladin into a giant ape didn't change her Int at all.
I see that you mention wall of force in a lot of your videos, but I also see in the spell lists that there are a lot of different wall of X spells. Would it be possible to get a video explaining the diffference and advantages of the multiple wall of X spells that exists?
I'd still be really hesitant with those concentration nerf spells. I've seen so many cases where the caster puts up a concentration spell vs. a group... half the group save and then rush him and the concentration is broken barely costing the enemies a turn (sometimes not even). If the three trolls when at the wizard, that is nine attacks with reach and a really good chance that concentration is going down.
I'd feel better with someone without a save -- like sleet storm -- which at least slows them so that they can't reach me for at least a round. Or... I'd want another party member able to buff me, hide me, or also slow them.
I don't see anything in the rules about difficult terrain and heavy obscurement tripling movement cost. Could you explain this please, is this a house rule?
My second tier wizards never have mage armor prepared when they go adventuring. I have them craft spell scrolls of mage armor to free up a slot. Of course that doesn't work in tier one because tier 1 characters are always too poor.
Huge creatures don’t fit inside a Wall of Force. A 15’ square does not fit inside a 10’ radius sphere. Sorry.
if i'm only ever going to have four 3rd level spells, i'm thinking leomund's tiny hut, hypnotic pattern, slow, counterspell
You seem to assume always that nobody ever is gonna stay behind to just negate the hypnosis by shaking the affected creatures.
im playing in curse of stradh campaign as bard, most spells I had problem with using due to not workign on those specific monsters, undead and etc, just got to lvl 5, does hipnotic pttern work on them?
When i started i had, tashas hideous laughter, sleep, couldnt use it anywhere due to they not being able to sleep or tasha not working.
Nice video, as always.
I have a small request, if you don't mind: could you talk a little bit about uses for Wall of Force? I rarely play Wizards of high enough level to cast this spell, so I have little experience with it. One of two times I was able to cast it, the wall was circumvented by a bunch of flightless thugs - exactly the enemies the wall is supposed to contain! You know how they did it? They just helped each other to climb over it by throwing each other upwards. I was very frustrated.
Wall of Force also seems very limited by the need to make "one flat surface". Sure, it can be made into a hemisphere, but it's only 10 feet, you can't trap an adult dragon or someone similarly big inside it.
How can I improve my Wall of Force?
@Stefan Erwin Baumer I've mentioned 10 feet hemisphere, didn't I? It's very small, can't trap scattered medium foes or a single huge fore. Basically, it's not as powerful a spell as I was led to believe.
seems like you are misinterpreting 10 feet with a 10 foot radius, a 10 foot radius means from the center outward in every direction, so it would be 20 feet from end to end, which means it can capture huge and even gargantuan creatures... as to enemies being spread out, sometimes that is the case and you just have to deal with it, works the same for all fights... if there are 5 enemies and none of them are together then it is not a good time for fireball and other area of effect spells, but when they group up that is the time to strike
@@arcanerecovery2567 no, I'm not confusing 10 feet with 10 feet radius. Excuse me for expressing myself poorly.
I'm pretty sure you can't fir a huge creature inside a 10 feet radius sphere, because the spell description state that if the force wall crosses a creature's space, the creature is pushed to one or the other side. And pushing inward would be impossible, because then the creature's space would be crossed by the wall on all sides.
@@arcanerecovery2567 10 feet radius is basically a cross shape, according to templates for spell effects in 5e. A huge creature is a square made with a side of three 5-feet tiles. It can't fit into 10-feet radius sphere without the sphere crossing the space of that creature.
@Stefan Erwin Baumer no, you can't. 10 foot radius sphere is a cross shape on the map. Huge creature is a cube that does not fit into that shape, the sphere crosses that cube. The sphere pushes away creatures whose space it crosses. It cannot push inward, because that way
Ya know, I'd given up on Wall of Force. I've used it like, 4 or 5 times for exactly the tactic you describe on different boss enemies, and every single time the enemy gets out within one round.
The first time was admittedly my own dumbass fault. The boss in question was an "adolescent Purple Worm". DM had dropped it to Huge and lowered it's stats. It just...burrowed under the Wall of Force.
Used it against a Demon and also later a Wizard enemy that both just Dimension Door-ed out. We as a party debated whether that was possible since the spell specifies that you can't astral travel away, but we agreed that DD isn't traveling through the WoF, but bypassing it via teleportation.
Finally a Green Dragon that also just burrowed underneath it.
So...yeah I don't really use it any more.
The thing about Wall of Force is that it is most effective against groups of enemies, which you can effectively cut in half, making combat trivial. Using it against a big singular enemy is not always smart, for exactly the reasons you mentioned.
Wizards really need to take a few days to make some scrolls for themselves before heading off to a difficult adventure. It’s just a day and a few gold to make a 1st level scroll and not much more for a 2nd level one.
Sleet storm causing 3:1 movement (Heavily Obscured & Difficult terrain)? Where is the Heavily Obscured blinded condition essentially causing slowed movement? I have looked all over the comments and rules and found nothing about this.
The hampered movement rule says that:
“Difficult terrain, obstacles, or poor visibility can hamper movement. When movement is hampered, each square moved into usually counts as two squares, effectively reducing the distance that a character can cover in a move.”
Oops.. deleted the wrong comment. Love your vids, very helpful and well thought out. They have been very helpful to me as a first time Wizard.
I loved you wizard guide! But it seems the format has taken was the color coding. Is there anywhere I can find it where the color coding is still available?
Where does it say moving in heavily obscured areas slows movement? Can't seem to find it
Currently playing a wizard that just hit 9th level and my God choosing spells to prepare are hard. With a 20 in intelligence I can prepare 14 spells to prepare out of my 39 total spells known .
Thanks for the update thanks so much for my time thanks so much for
11:35 Hypnotic pattern covers a slightly smaller area than fireball, no? I'm guessing you meant that it affects them all, so the targeting outcome is essentially the same.
Correct on both counts. The actual area covered is technically similar (since fireball is technically a sphere), but in squares on the map it covers more area.
The way I count spherical aoes in my campaign I DM is that with a sphere is that I always cut off the corners of the same foot cube for a spherical spell (in the process of trying to arrange proper acrylic shapes)
Can creatures dig down to get out of Wall of Force? Same question for Leomund's Tiny Hut.
Neither. Wall of force is a sphere, leomund's tiny hut is a hemisphere (different than a dome). Both have a bottom.
Treantmonk's Temple Alright thank you.
TLDR The only meaningful hp is the last point of hp. If casting a fireball would not shift the action economy into your favour, use control spells instead.
I've played in several MMO type games, where there's no initiative- you just act in real time. The controller almost always decides a fight. Any fight where control isn't crucial, wasn't a threat to begin with.
I know there's not a perfect analogy between real-time MMO combat, and d&d turn combat. But strategy is strategy, and are mostly the same.
@@wizard380 that's not because control isn't important. It's because there isn't any long duration control. When control is both purgeable, and only lasts for a couple seconds when it does work, then it's not really an option.
I promise though, introduce something like Hypnotic Pattern, and it will almost instantly become the deciding factor in every fight.
Really depends on who makes the game. Control is important in DnD because the designers make it powerful with spells like Hypnotic pattern. It's less important in WoW because the designers make control weaker, probably because it would make PVP less fun.
@@ronaldeldonald which is an odd supposition, since WoW has never been particularly successful at its PvP, and many games that are centered around PvP and have been very successful, have strong control features.
It forces a more strategic approach, and rewards disciplined teams -just like in D&D.
It kind of seems like sleet storm is garbage compared to hypnotic
As a first time wizard player these videos are tremendously helpful with perspective in combat.
But I'd like to hear opinions on spells that are versatile for OOC/rp . Focusing almost entirely on combat and survival seems kind of one sided to me. Am I wrong?
Not at all. I've been planning my first wizard characters and have had a similar issue. I find that what I've done has been to "rebel" against the various guides every so many spell selections and pick something useful or flavorful that's unlikely to be relevant to combat (like Disguise Self or Detect Thoughts). It's important to keep in mind that the game is pretty balanced and the level of difficulty is adjustable by your GM, so your character doesn't have to be some optimized machine. But these guides are still good because they help you know which choices have what kinds of impact.
Another thing to keep in mind is your are not limited to the spells you prepare. Scrolls, etc.
Additionally, the spells you prepare to go to a fight, might not be the spells you prepare when meeting the Queen.
I'm a 11th level biochemist/4th level postdoctoral fellow (prestige class) :)
I'm probably wrong here but I was under the impression a downed ally couldn't be targeted by dimension door since they are unconscious and therefore not able to be willing. Maybe just a Crawford tweet I read somewhere. *shrug*
You are not wrong, Jeremy Crawford has indeed tweeted that an unconsious person cannot give consent for a dimension door. Personally, I think that's dumb. I'm Canadian, and we have a law called the Good Samaritan act, where a bystander attempting to help an unconsious person in good faith is considered to have consent. That makes more sense to me.
Solution: rp asking the Party for consent to cast all the contingency spells you'd cast while their unconscious.
Thank you.
The best Wizard tactic is to make scrolls if able. This isn't always possible, but if it is a massive issue then play an Elf, 4 extra hours every long rest adds up.
The biggest issue Wizards face is being underprepared because they need to always prepare certain spells (or regret the one time they don't). Let's take Treant's example of Shield, Absorb Elements and Mage Armor. From levels 1-20 that's 3 of your slots used to prepare these spells. And while you will be casting Mage Armor every day, Shield and Absorb Elements can be replaced with a scroll each (or multiple of each if you are able to stockpile). This is true for higher-level spells but just takes more time and money.
The pen is truely mightier than the sword.
Do you know what spell they cast if you use counterspell? Xanathars guide says you have to use your reaction to try and identify a spell
If it is just a Wall of Force dome, would the White dragon not just be be able to get out of it with a 30ft burrow?
It's a sphere.
You can choose a wall, hemisphere, sphere, or even a more irregular shape.
Steel wind strike is quite powerful
Well, one advantage is no friendly fire, though the damage per target is so-so
@@TreantmonksTemple The damage per target (33) is almost as high as cone of cold (36) or an upcast fireball (35), though with the more-generally-effective force damage type -- and better than Synaptic Static (28), though without the latter's debuff properties. Is there better damage per target at 5th level from another non-concentration spell that I'm missing? (Even if there is, I do still like the flavor for a bladesinger.)
@@bigdream_dreambig I think it's very stylish. Could be dangerous having to get in to melee range though. Enemies could have held actions, or other ways to snare you or reciprocate the damage.
@@themedic1137 The good news is that, mechanically, you only ever have to be within 5 feet of _one_ of your various targets.
Hi Chris, no discussion of the haste spell? I know it is a single target, concentration spell, with a break drain effect.
You answered your own question. If you want to cast haste, play a sorcerer and twin it, otherwise it isn't as effective as other options.
@@cmckee42 depends on the target.
@@dustinsmith2021 fair, but the circumstances where you would cast haste on a single target are cases where that single target is more than twice as effective as any other member of the party. For example if you have 2 casters you can haste a t-rex, which is very effective. Also if you know it is the last fight of the day against the big bad, hasting the paladin can allow then to burn through their smites at superspeed. But 95% of the time, you will want to concentrate on something else.
No, I can't really discuss every spell that's decent for Wizards, so I focused on some highlights. Haste is an OK spell for Wizards, though I would point out that the effect is fairly minor unless the target has a really big single weapon attack damage. Adding it to a vengeance pally for example, who has advantage on the attack, can smite, and may have a hunter's mark up and may be adding great weapon fighting as well, will be a lot for effective than throwing it on the Rogue for example.
Treantmonk's Temple Rogues with Haste can hold action an attack with their normal action and Sneak Attack with the Haste action, effectively doubling their damage.
I feel like he’s about to make his gold/blue/red chart by level.
Had a bit of a wiff with my first wall of force. Dropped concentration on polymorph to cast it which reduced an ally to low hitpoints again but allowed me to encase a shadow dragon in the wall of force. Then the dragon disintegrated the wall of force as a legendary action, then took its turn to roast the now un-polymorphed low hitpoints wizard and myself with shadow breath (Not a type absorb elements was helpful with). The breath killed the other wizard, almost killed me, then it flew away. In this situation leaving the great ape might have been better but I had no way of knowing the dragon could use disintegrate. It seems like to me this spell either feels like overkill or the scary thing can easily bust out. I am not sure when its okay to use this spell.
Yeah, Dragons generally don't have spellcasting, and definitely don't have it as a legendary action. It may have been a homebrew dragon, or your DM didn't like you shutting down the battle and the dragon became homebrew on the fly...
Hypnotic Pattern is not the exact same area as Fireball. It’s not even close.
You kind of understate polymorphs utility
I dont think warcaster is that good. I normaly prefer taking proficiency in con saving throws because advantage boosts the average roll up by I think sth like 3.75 or 3.25 so at lvl 9 proficiency becomes better then advantage. The really hard encounters that make it important to have a good concentration save are in the late game so lvl 9 is not that important and if you maxed intelligence at 4 and take the feet at lvl 8 its only one more lvl. Also you get +1 to con and with a good planned character, that means your modifier increases also by 1 so the feat actually is better then warcaster at lvl 5 and if you take the feat at lvl 4 thats only 1 lvl until lvl 5. The other effects of warcaster arent as amazing as a +1 to con in my opinion. Lastly advantage doesnt stack.
Way overstating the power of Sleet Storm here, falling prone isn't their only action, they can just get right back up and still have half their movement. The Trolls would only take the save on their turn, since they never first enter it, then any on the edge would just move off, even taking 2 squares for 1, and the rest would move forward. At most 3 would be on the sheet on round 2, and none after. Also, they are never Prone on your party's turn.
Falling prone means using half their movement to get up, difficult terrain means using 10ft to move one square, I would've placed the effect further forward, rather than what he did, but it is still great for battlefield control.
It's just way better against spellcasters, ranged attacker or any creature who's abilities require sight. Not trolls.
Any chance of a guide like this for pathfinder rules?
Just wanted to add that I have read your extensive guide to pathfinder wizards, and playing a campaign now with a conjuration wizard. It doesn't have your opinion on things like opposing schools or spell preparation for different levels. Other than that though it is very well done and I appreciate everything you've written on the subject.
The general principles can be adapted to pathfinder, but wizards are broken enough in pathfinder that extensive guides (beyond what has been done) would be overkill, especially with 5e draining the PF player base.
Ok thanks for the quick response, keep doing great vids. Love them all.
@@matthewpippin1551 just to clarify, I am not Treantmonk.
Hmm always thought you were, then who is?
Is the 9 damage a spell level a rule of thumb you’ve developed over the years or is it something you’ve “mathed” out like your reliable damage standard?
Asking to compare the experience of gameplay you’ve garnered over the years to the spell damage table the creators try to use as resource use guides in the DMG on pg 283
I actually created a damage graph on the old WOTC boards that charted spell damage by level and drew a straight line of what I considered "good" damage, which wouldn't have been exactly 9 points per level, but it was close. I use 9 as a very rough guideline. As a point of interest...a meteor swarm actually does 15.5 per spell level!
Treantmonk's Temple
That is some pretty diligent and useful work, thank you for the quick reply.
Also jeez meteor swarm. I’m pretty new to the game and have only really read about it and seen it on spell lists. When ever I think about it I can’t help but imagine an end of the world type scenario with slow motion explosions and heart wrenching choir music playing as the world is torn asunder.
@@binolombardi Yeah, that level of play is pretty rare, but it's a great visual (wrath of god kind of stuff), and when do you get to roll 40 dice?
What do you think of using a bard as a God wizard?
It functions fine. It's kind of a poor man's wizard, less spells, less spell selection, missing the cool ritual magic mechanic, but overall, it can get the job done.
Treantmonk's Temple Bards do have the ritual casting mechanic. What they don’t have is a spellbook.
The cool ritual magic mechanic I'm referring to is not having to prepare rituals, while a Bard must have the ritual as a spell known. This means the bard will have significantly less spells to choose from when casting.
Treantmonk's Temple I agree there's less versatility but do the applications of basic inspiration and cutting words make up for it when filling a 'god wizard' role in your opinion?
Peter Osborne From personal experience the Bard list has many holes, and Magical Secrets is not quite enough to plug them. Bardic Inspiration/Cutting Words are hard to quantify because it depends on how many encounters you run. For my table, with 6-8 encounters per adventuring day, we have a Sorlock and a Bardlock split the load of a God Wizard, which is more effective in combat but still not quite as versatile.
What about Fly? Why not Fly? It's hilariously powerful.
It would be hilariously powerful... if it didn't require your concentration. Instead, it's just fairly good. Same reason that things like Blur and Protect from Energy are okay but not outstanding: if you're using your concentration just to defend yourself, that severely limits what you can do to actually contribute to winning the fight. Fly becomes less generally applicable than it appears on paper. If you're using it on yourself, it isn't foolproof; your enemies will have the ability to use attacks, spells, or other abilities at range increasingly frequently as you level up. And if you are in a combat where being in the air makes you untouchable, you could accomplish the same thing equally effectively with Levitate, a lower level spell. The alternative is if you are fighting enemies that can fly themselves *AND* you have a party member that has no way to contribute unless they get into melee, then Fly makes a lot of sense as a buff you can give them. And I would be remiss not to mention that of course Fly is useful outside of combat. But this video covers general principles that apply to MOST parties in MOST situations. Fly doesn't fit that bill.
@@dylandugan76 no
: you want non concentration, non reaction defense spells. This is fire sheild and mirror image
Armor of agathys 😔
Well duh it says it's a wizard guide
What kind of sick fuck pits 6 trolls against 5 level 5 characters?!?!?!
You have solid analysis but the hypothetical situations you use are insane... For reference, that's ~4x a deadly encounter.
it's me I'm going to do that I ❤ killing