Destiny 2 - IS THE TRAVELER A GIANT GHOST? A Throne World Of Light
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- Опубліковано 24 вер 2023
- In Lightfall something strange happened. Pyramid ships would align around the Traveler as the Witness and Calus began their Final Shape. The interesting part, it resembled a Ghost. The Traveler and Ghosts have some grand connections, which makes sense given it created them, but today let’s take a look at what these entities are and how Ghosts could just be mini-travelers.
“Destiny 2 The Final Shape”
“Destiny 2 The Traveler”
“Destiny 2 Pale Heart”
“Destiny 2 Lore”
Thanks for watching! - Ігри
I was hoping the traveler was a hawt alien wamen inside that sphere
Probably still is that’s most likely the pale heart
Me too brother
Cringe. Seek help.
Same
gamers stop being horny challenge
I always interpreted the Traveler as a sort of Ghost for the universe itself, and if you think about it, it makes more sense that this power should be normally applied to the universe itself rather than to an individual.
Its basically the (or at least the biggest) source of Light for all of reality, which we know can generate energy from nothing, it can wipe information (memory) away for a fresh start, it can move faster than the normal speed of light to reach the entire universe (the shockwave from the end of the vanilla campaign at minimum made it to the edge of the galaxy in months, which would take normal light thousands of years to travel the same distance) and it's intrinsically tied to the physical universe in a fundamental way.
If you have a universe that's ended in essentially any form, so long as the Traveler exists, it can cause another Big Bang and restart reality, and thanks to the chaotic nature of Light, it doesn't *have* to go through the exact same series of events every single time.
Does that mean the witness is a giant gaurdian? After a bad falling out he just wants his ghost back
Remember that one lore piece where guardian died and happend to wake up in some sort of garden with trees with Ghosts instead of leafs, and fresh cut that left on his hand even after Ghost ressurected him in real world and maintaned memories of that place.
It never ceases to interest me that so many people interpreted at face value the events at the end of the Season of the Seraph as the Traveler either "running away" or having been cornered. Since it was first revealed, I've always left open the possibility that the Traveler CHOSE to stay this time, having been swayed by the altruistic acts of sacrifice made by Rasputin and on behalf of the combined Vanguard forces. After all, "Devotion inspires bravery, bravery inspires sacrifice, sacrifice leads to death." I think the Traveler saw our collective bravery and Rasputin's sacrifice, and was, in that moment, inspired by its own creation.
I believe that it is a distinct possibility that the Traveler left its perch above the Last City to CONFRONT the Darkness and sacrifice itself to give us, the combined forces of Light, another chance. It seems apparent that it is aware of the events that will play out, and it is now willing, through our inspiration, to be part of something greater in its sacrifice, like it has asked of its adherents so many countless times before. A poetic end, and one befitting an "imperfect-but-trying" deity of sorts; after all, the Traveler and the greater "theology" of the Light has always been about connection and complexity - how poignant would it be that it would willingly lay down its existence to give that complexity a chance to continue, and in doing so become part of its own creation?
I've long viewed the Traveler as sort of an author's "self-insertion" to their story, or as an avatar for a higher power (the Light, or rather whatever sentience is behind it) to act within the boundaries of its creation, much like the Witness is a sort of avatar of the principal theology of the sentience behind the Darkness in that it is bound to the maxims of this Winnower's Sword Logic. We sort of get this sense from 'The Unveiling,' which describes (perhaps unreliably) the cosmic flower game and the interactions between the Gardener and Winnower (taken to be the most basic manifestations of the paracausal forces): "'No,' the gardener said, 'I am the growth and preservation of complexity. I will make myself into a law in the game.'"
In the Garden, the field of probabilities that exists outside the confines of time and space, the two paracausal forces were all that were "real," and they existed there as one, playing out in an eternal cycle that repeated itself infinitely (much like cyclical models of modern cosmological theory or concepts of eternal recurrence found in philosophical and religious traditions varying from Platonism to Vedic theology), but had little variation in its outcome (as an aside, it is hinted that the Vex were essentially always the "victor" in these iterations). The Light, favoring complexity, harmony, and growth as its tenets, would always "lose" to the Darkness' unerring pragmatism - the "game" was fixed through its rigid laws and rules, and the Light, appearing to have some sort of sentience, became dissatisfied with this pointless charade. It determined that a new "rule" was necessary for the game to have any actual purpose, and, in its insistence, provoked the primal sentience behind the Darkness to attack in self-preservation. This first conflict is what birthed our universe, leaked the Vex into our reality, and what allowed the Light to be made manifest physically in the form of the Traveler (Note: this would happen a second time during humanity's Collapse, which resulted in the creation of the Awoken and The Distributary, a pocket universe within our own).
As stated many times in the lore, the Traveler (as the physical manifestation of the Gardener) has the ability to "sow the seeds" of reality, matter, and space, and so its continued existence is antithetical to the intentions of the primal sentience behind the Winnower/Darkness, which is to maintain order and stability (and to return the field of probability, or "Garden," to its original state with its original laws through its process of "pruning"). To do this, the primal sentience behind The Darkness had to also "become law within the game," but due to its nature as a metaphysical force, or force of consciousness and thought, was unable to act directly upon the nascent physical cosmos borne from the Garden. So, to do this, it conspired with the race of The Witness, whispering to them and presenting itself and its power through ideas and dreams. This led to the gestalt consciousness of The Witness (the First Knife), which is more like a machine driven by the will of whatever primal sentience is behind The Darkness (The Winnower).
I'm convinced that The Witness is acting on behalf of this Winnower, as its First Knife, carrying out its orders efficiently, precisely, and methodically to the letter. Its intention is to remove the Traveler from physical reality (thus eliminating the "rule" or "law" ensuring the potential for growth and complexity) and "drink its Pale Heart" to become a singular, unified force once again, thus restoring the Garden to its original state and returning our cosmos to an ekpyrotic one. Interestingly, this term, which was borrowed from Platonism's Stoic tradition, refers both to eternal recurrence AND a return of all things to their starting point, and was specifically chosen as a descriptor for our universe's fate when described by The Witness; unfortunately, I can't find the lore card that refers to this, but as soon as I do, I'll be sure to update this comment!
End of rant!
It moved because it was dangling over the Last City. If Eramis had fired the Warmind weapons at the Traveler when it was there, the casualties would have been astronomical. It stayed there because the Witness arrived, and sitting there keeps the fighting away from Civilians.
This is so vastly philosophical and well thought out. I think you are really onto something here. @@seraph8
@@connordodge674That's a good point, and a very practical rationale, but I'm not convinced that it is the plot-driven reason for its moving, mainly because we know how Braytech weaponry typically works: through fairly precise disintegration, not by bombardment or explosives (Valkyrie spears, Sleeper Simulant).
You very well may be right, admittedly, but I'm not trying to turn it into a debate - I leave open the possibility of either, and, from a narrative standpoint, still feel strongly about my own conclusions and the way it fits within the larger arc of the story.
@@seraph8I agree with you.
You keep getting it wrong, drifter said his ghost accessed further spectrums of light
I hav a theory. When the witness first came for the traveler. We see that the traveler begin to leave earth, like it was escaping. What if the traveler wasn’t trying to escape? What if it knew that the best chance to defeat witness was to not allow the witness to touch down onto earth. If the witness and his fleets of armies came into earth, the guardians would have been overwhelmed and most likely be defeated. The traveler knew that the witness main objective was to capture him. This would buy some time for the guardians to come up with a counter attack.
Thank you, I thought I was crazy! I made a separate response, but then I saw your comment and felt I should place my thoughts here as well, as it seems we had similar interpretations of the events at the end of the Season of the Seraph:
It never ceases to interest me that so many people interpreted at face value the events at the end of the Season of the Seraph as the Traveler either "running away" or having been cornered. Since it was first revealed, I've always left open the possibility that the Traveler CHOSE to stay this time, having been swayed by the altruistic acts of sacrifice made by Rasputin and on behalf of the combined Vanguard forces. After all, "Devotion inspires bravery, bravery inspires sacrifice, sacrifice leads to death." I think the Traveler saw our collective bravery and Rasputin's sacrifice, and was, in that moment, inspired by its own creation.
I believe that it is a distinct possibility that the Traveler left its perch above the Last City to CONFRONT the Darkness and sacrifice itself to give us, the combined forces of Light, another chance. It seems apparent that it is aware of the events that will play out, and it is now willing, through our inspiration, to be part of something greater in its sacrifice, like it has asked of its adherents so many countless times before. A poetic end, and one befitting an "imperfect-but-trying" deity of sorts; after all, the Traveler and the greater "theology" of the Light has always been about connection and complexity - how poignant would it be that it would willingly lay down its existence to give that complexity a chance to continue, and in doing so become part of its own creation?
With its last dying breath, the Traveler gave us ghosts. To open doors.
The shell of the traveller is the remenant light of every being who died to posses or defend it. Inside it uses the veil to dream the memories of the dead. It inspires darkness to consolodate in the shawdows of its light to bring itself more tithes.
i would rather say the shell of the traveler is just something made out of light into material like the Vex do it with planets. To protect the paleheart... i think the paleheart is in the physical world like a blackhole. The Veil is the Travelers Mind. Once they were one being.
What if these memory locations the 8th quest ends up giving us all the destinations back as part of a memory location inside the traveler. Like bungies way of less clutter on the map making the traveler a marker for a second destination map
It would make sense.
If the ghost were made by the traveler I see no reason of why the traveler can’t revive Cayde-6.
My question is now of what or who did our ghost choose in Elsie Bray’s timeline or did our ghost never exist and died looking for us in the cosmodrome maybe?
Dude.... Ive literally been saying this for years.
There arw a couple of ghosts that have minimal shells and their cores are so reminiscent of the traveler.
Cant wait for this conclusion, really looking forward to it.
Servitors are quite similar to the traveler as well
Servitors are made that way on purpose
Servitors are like ghosts in some ways. Have you thought about how they float? Shanks have visible levitation machinery, but how do servitors do it? It's space magic, which is either The Light or The Dark
@@MonstertruckBadassyes I know 🤙 that's why I was drawing a comparison
@@izzyxbladeswell they use void light as well as produce either so I wouldnt be surprised if they had some sort of gravitational ability to help levitate
The eliksni worshiped the traveler and made servitors in its image and since it gives them ether and the traveler gave them a golden age they worshipped machines
Which is why the servitor is made in its shape
I’ve also said for years that ghost are mini travelers instead of planet to planet it’s person to person
I just hope the galaxy pools get explained
What if the Traveler acts as a universal backup for all life it encounters? Scanning each new world it visits and creating an imprint of them within itself in case of universal extinction like in Halo.
That would be wicked since technically halo and destiny have a connection
I think the Traveler is a DDOS magnet.
😂
The inside of the traveler physically is black mechanical parts or at least that’s what it looks like, which is the same as ghosts. Also, there’s the preorder bonus ghost shell which looks like the traveller with the pyramids around it
oh sick is that the lightfall preorder?
@@nathanflinchum1153 It's called the final shell, it has 8 Pyramid Ship like structures circling the ghost shell which is a white shell with black lines, that if you look more closely resembles The Witness, even the ghost's eye is changed to be mostly black, like the witness' eyes
What? Black mechanical parts? Thats the outside. The inside is empty, and also the random black cuboids in pale heart idk if its part of witness memory. And the traveler shard is also the outside the layer after the white, doesnt mean it goes all the way and is only black parts even deeper.
in the physical world i would say the paleheart inside the traveler is like a blackhole or wormhole. The shell is only there to protect it...
Amazing video
Good stuff!!
So the big revelation before TFS will be: "Guardian, if you want to enter into the Traveler you must die" (Savathun voice ;) )
If i had to throw down a giant theory I think the ghosts could be copies of base personalities that currently make up the witness. Seeing they they’re connected mentally it could be that the witness and the ghost are the same.
nah bro. Ghosts are made out of light and darkness. Like every living being. Light (Body) Mind/soul (Darkness) so the Ghosts are Souls who lived as humans or never lived before but they are still souls from the paleheart. The Traveler or Gardener is also the Darkness. It was one being. The Veil was his Mind. The paleheart is basically like the cosmic egg. And the veil is the cosmic mind. The Witness manipulated and abused the darkness thats why it can corrupt a ghost and every other living being. The Witness can whispers in any mind. Thats why we need to stop it. If the Witness will finally manipulate the light like the darkness. The Final Shape beginns
best lore youtuber
I would guess that the Witness can access the 'switch' on the ghost (the same way as drifter did) as it's a darkness function. (Red light)
i like the thought of the traveler being a throne world for the light and all light users and a ghost binds to them so there "soul" gets put inside the traveler ready for the ghost to pull them out and revive them until the ghost is dead and the guardian is stuck in the traveler and it being like how it is all grass and nice cause the traveler is a gardener that could be the travelers way of letting them have whatever they want in the afterlife as there stuck there now so they can create a home or life there
Its a tabernacle, as are guardians- the ghost are part of the glory of the light "Shekhinah"- its kind of cool
Not sure if it was your video, but I said this exact thing in a d2 lore video VINDICATION
That one poor ghost who blew up 😭
Are the pyramids just the “limbs” of the traveler that split apart when, perhaps, the traveler created the universe? Like when ghosts open up their shell when reviving a guardian? Idk may be looking too much into it.
I really enjoy how Bungie makes me hate Immaru. I would love to see the Guardian crush him but then there goes the Savathun story. That little light better thank this boss for being important to the Light/Dark saga
Traveler being a giant ghost, teraformimg planets ang giving life to the nine, mabey the nine are just like giant guardians. idk lol
Did you get a new mic?
The ghost is basically made of a circular center (traveler) with its shell (pyramid).
If it were the throne world of light, wouldn't it mean we'd die for good once we went in and fell off the first cliff?
I mean, we killed Savathun in her throne world and she's technically still able to come back as long as Imaru is unharmed so I'd say we're safe lol
@@lainkey wouldn't that be because she is actually a lightbearer now, so she has TWO throne worlds, the light's and her own?
Talk about having more than one way to cheat death and ofc the goddess of trickery would be able to pull it off.
How big does someone have to be for the traveler to be their ghost
The “throne worlds” are basically where the “pieces” go when they are “out of play” in the great game that the Gardener and Winnower have been playing since the beginning of time. The only difference is now we know this fact versus the rest of Destiny’s history we thought it was “magic” when we got revived.
1:00 Can I get a name on what this is on? I want to read it.
4:29 what if u turn the traveler so its destroyed bottom is where the roots of the veil go, like the traveler and veil were ripped appart
;) There’s a ghost shell projection.
If the pale heart holds all things that had or have light, and reflects the memories of whatever traverses it as bungie has said, shouldn't that mean well see the ammonite?
the real final shape is the friends we made along the way
Ever since that event our Ghost said they sensed a giant ghost inside the traveler I’ve referred to the Traveler as Ghost 2.
Remove the shell bits from the ghost and the orb looks just like the traveler
I always thought the traveler was just a giant ghost and it makes a lot of sense
years back I imagined Ghosts could be almost like spores or seeds to grow into new Travelers, they bond with a Guardian to grow their light enough to mature and then the cycle repeats. I had no evidence to back it up though so I never posted about it lmao
I Mean the traveller doesn't have those craters on it like the ghost does, and you can say literally any sphere that exists anywhere looks like the traveller
@@jacobtuck3086 the traveler does have circular outlines in the same areas if you look close enough
I’m not saying every sphere shaped thing looks like the traveler but obviously they came from the traveler and servitors are literally designed in the image of the traveler if you know eliksni lore
So who’s to say every sphere in the destiny universe isn’t just made in the image of the traveler as well
I mean, remove all other body parts and our eyeballs look like travellers too. Spheres are just cool.
@@lainkey hey who know maybe the traveler is just a giant sharingon
Imagine if the traveler was the witnesses ghost
I never understood what is on the bottom of the traveler
Sand...
Idk why people think that the traveler wanted to run away, isnt it said that it wanted to fight?
The traveler is cake
Ngl it would make sense if it was a giant ghost but like honestly I think that would just kinda ruin it for me idk how but like yeah
traveller a ghost? makes sense in a way but i believe this is just a part of a war between the witness n traveler we the guardians are caught in the middle of this war
no.. basically wer the purpose of the witness. The counterpart. Like the Veil and the Traveler. The many darkness users in one being against many many Gardeners of the light. The Witness is our purpose
Who pilots these pyrimid ships?
No one, however they are control by the will of the witness which is so fucking lame narratively speaking
@@aura6920 that is super lame. I was expecting a whole ass army like the monkey dudes but with different ranks or something instead of what we have in the current setting
@@Yeahthatguy617 "the monkey dudes"😭 you mean tormentors?
black garden is throne world...
This is the more definitive answer I am seeking in the final shape. Not some macguffin similar to the shit show that was Lightfall.
wHoS it's GuArDiAN?!
Haha the traveler is the witnesses ghost🤣
I think they removed the option to switch to Darkness-Subclasses, because after The Final Shape we wont need to think of Light and Dark as different, when all they did was opening our minds to the Forces of the Universe..maybe the last "Darkness-Power" is merely artificial, created by the Witness.
I personally doubt this, as it would violate a lot of the philosophical touchstones and thematic choices of the overarching narrative; an interesting idea to be sure, but one I don't personally find likely. A lot of people were disappointed that there was no third Darkness specialization revealed during the Final Shape showcase, but I'm still VERY confident (even ignoring the leaked screenshots showing a red/magenta specialization with unfamiliar symbols) that there will be one. The symmetry of nature, the physical and metaphysical, and, by extension, the paracausal has been one of the few persistent and unifying threads underpinning Destiny lore. As interesting as your idea is (I personally find that the implications of artifice being applied to nature/"paracausality" to bring about an UNNATURAL symmetry far more interesting and intellectually challenging than the predictable natural symmetry route), I just think it wouldn't necessarily fit with the story they've written over the past ten years.
@@seraph8Yes, there has to be a third one. Bungie has hinted countless times over the years using very specific combinations of colors in many different areas of the game that there will be a third subclass and when Witch Queen launched they immediately made it clear there would be no subclass, instead focusing on light. While The Final Shape would appear to be doing the same thing, I think it’s just that; appearance. It’s okay new supers, and while they’re interesting, they’re just enough to hold people off. They have to have a trick up their sleeve. They for whatever reason consistently are silent every time they’ve had the opportunity to deny a third subclass. They’re already being vague about the mission structure. I like this. Also- I love the way you type. I believe you and I analyze Destiny similarly, and because of that I’m curious if before the launch of Lightfall, or more specifically, season of the deep- if you thought it would be more likely that there was a feminine angelic entity associated with the Traveler as a juxtaposition to the Witness?
@@AttiMatter Hi! Thanks for actually reading my little rant, I always appreciate and am humbled by people who take time out to read something I wrote!
As far as a 'feminine angelic entity' being associated with the Traveler, I would reply that the Traveler IS that entity (the Light's equivalent to The Witness) in that it/she (The Traveler is alternately referred to as genderless and in the feminine) is the "avatar," or physical representation within our universe, of the primordial consciousness behind the paracausal force of Light.
I tend to be of the belief that both The Witness and the Traveler represent higher powers rather than complete personifications of those powers: think 'Emanations' in Qabbalah/esoteric Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism, or, to a lesser extent, Christ as an incomplete and human avatar of the Judeo-Christian God who is one with that higher power.
I would also hesitate to call the Traveler an 'angel,' specifically, because while it certainly could be described as such (The Traveler acts in an angelic manner from our perspective and has the cosmic ability to perform acts that could be ascribed to a god), to use that terminology might be confusing, as Destiny's lore is pretty far removed from any modern religious beliefs - thankfully, haha.
That's just my opinion, though! It's nice to meet someone who thinks about these things through lenses similar to my own! Literary analysis was kind of my specialty when I was in my undergrad program, it seemed natural to apply those techniques to Destiny's narrative as well!
Zoo animals live in the traveler.
I will say this. I've said this since d1. Half of the thing happening I've sat with friends discussing all these topics before this seasonal system. The storytelling should move from these " everything in 3s" and " every story being played out in front of us."
There needs to be a unpredictable change coming. This and only to me at this time is boring.
All of d1 is us retreading old footsteps.. food for thought.
How the witness took control of our ghost...what about when sagira did?
I don't like that people are acting ignorant and oblivious to what and who the traveler is...I feel like y'all are the long con to me. A sign pointing to THE answer and y'all claim it as not. You could see all the science of this game yet not grasp the idea in which the game is literally made.
How math made a language that created definitions that created a line that create vectors that created a sphere...we added physics to the sphere. Now as we approach it, we give it interiority, the thin almost invisible wall has mass on the other side.
Long story short. Yes.
@@twilso12 1v1 Me punk. Turn you into a short story.