BATTLE of the OVERSIZED 4x12 GUITAR CABS!
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2022
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German producer Kristian Kohle (Aborted, Powerwolf, Eskimo Callboy, Hämatom, Van Canto, Emil Bulls) has returned to compare two oversized 4x12" guitar cabinets. The legendary MESA BOOGIE Rectifier 4x12 vs the COFFE AUDIO LUINGO!
Enjoy the battle!
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The COFFEE AUDIO LUNGO 4x12 cab:
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The Coffee cab sounded MUCH better to my ears, interesting! Maybe it's that "extra coating" ;-) Would love to get IRs with the DV-77 from you, Kristian! 🤘🏻🙏🏻
Yeah some Coffee DV-77 IR's will be sick
I dislike the fizziness of the Mesa, and love the Coffee. I would definitely dial in the amp differently based on the cab, but if I was forced to buy a DV-77 Coffee cab, at least the $ would be well spent. Great vid!
Count me in for the IR as well. Would insta buy. I'm a sucker for that ENGL cab sound.
Cabs have what I call centrepoints, where the "centre" of the tone sits in the frequency spectrum. Generally these are a combination if resonances and harmonics, or something like that. The Mesa has its typical 4k whistle, and the coffee seems to be a larger band in the centre/lower mids. Something like 1k, 700hz, something like that.
That’s a good description!
I'm so looking forward to the academy. Warren and your channel are by far my favorite. Your IRs are some of the bests around. Found one of my favorite speaker combos using your Rainbows and Chainsaw pack. The DV77 and a Jensen Nighthawk miced with a 57 and 160. So good.
I'd have guessed exactly the opposite result considering the coffee cabs are front loaded. Wow!
Hell yeah, been waiting/hoping for this vid! :D
The Pitbull/Brunetti with the Coffee cab, man that's pure bliss! Please, oh PLEASE, make an IR of that!
The Diezel does sound better through the Mesa though, can't deny that.
The Boogie cab sounded better (for what I like) with both amps when solo'd, but the Coffee cab sounds good too,...just different. Good to have both! In the mix for the GrindStein song -- I preferred the Coffee cab.
Hahaha, the first thing I thought when hearing the Coffee Cab was "this sounds like a less aggressive version of my ENGL XXL 4x12" w/ V30s" and a few minutes later you brought it up. It's a bit more tamed, but I can imagine it being a bit easier to work with because of that.
By the way, I love the way you showed how having the right cab w/ the right amp means you'll sometimes need to swap both. If the amp has tons of midrange grind, adding a more focused/scooped cab can balance things out nicely. Mids in the cab and amp can be too much of a good thing, making everything muddy.
The Mesa sound more mix friendly, detailed, focused. I prefer it. The Coffee cab is more rocknroll, like a wild beast that you will have to tame and work to get what you want. The difference is pretty huge.. Nearly as large as changing from a V30 to a G12-T75..
That dietzl with the Mesa cab an the DV-77 made grandma excited!
But she said the coffee cab with the pitbull amp was a nice combo as well!
Killer content, Kohle!
8:14 instant reminds me of Jinjer guitar tone.
Glad you mentioned it in the first place.
Coffee sounds killer
Awesome vid!
Great video! It's hard to pick a favourite! I like the Coffee one because of its character and the vibe it gives me, but when you switch to the Mesa, that's instant recognition and the brighter sounds pleases my ears! I wonder how the IR's would sound with a plugin amp. I actually think it's great to be taught what a good guitar tone sounds like! Thanks!
You might get some IRs soon 🤓🤪
You sold me on the D-Moll already. Love Mesa everything, the Mesa cab sounds amazing!
These speaker and cab vids are what keep me comin back! Coffee sounds caffeinated 😜. I know that’s gta be trite by now but I like it.
Love the alnico blue video too. I find using my gold on counterintuitive tones usually yields cool results too. When paired with V30s or creams, reds- love trying it all. Thanks for these awesome videos man
Interesting analysis. Thanks
the coffee sounds incredible.. id love an IR
for studio use, i would probably mix the two cabs, they sound like they compliment each other well
I believe coffee audio sells irs of their cabs
Great video thank you for making it
Great results! In this test mesacab just fizzy, the darker position would be preferable. Coffee brings so much Anger, and the lows are so good!
Thank you very much for the video. I'm actually looking to get that exact Mesa cab these days to go with my mark v. It sounds great and convincing. Imma get that one. Didn't know the coffee brand, its not really in my tastes. Have a good one !
AWWWWW GOD DAMNIT!!! now I gotta switch all my speakers to my mesa cab and try this same experiment! You damn genius you!
Both sound absolutely killer. Love the classic scoop sound of the mesa cab but the coffee has something very cool going on in the low mids.
Very interesting. Back-to-back, when switching between them, I prefer the Coffee Cab in the moment. But overall, I prefer the Mesa after extended listening.
This just reminded me how much i love that Mesa sound 😄
Both are awesome!! Imo they would definitely play well together blended or paired in a mix. If I had to pick one over the other, I'd go with the Mesa, but both sound awesome! Big thanks for the comparison video. You should definitely make some IRs of that Coffee cab tho. Just saying lol
Thanks! Now I am curious to hear the comparison between these 2 and the ENGL XXL
I prefer the D-Moll with the mess cabinet, much tighter and sounds more in front and resolved to me
Sounds compliment each other.
Wow...I can't believe the difference, really. It seems to fly in the face of some other "cab comparison" I've seen/heard. I actually prefer the Coffee cab sound since it has less fizz in the high end. The Coffee cab does sound a little 'hollower', though? Not sure how else to describe it.
Very much appreciate the comparison, Kristian!
Wow, I love the Coffee cabs so much!
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I just picked up a Traynor 112 cab last night and dropped my DV-77 into it, and its the best its ever sounded. Front loaded, exceptionally built 112 made in Canada.
Good choice!
Both sounding cool. The differences in the sound are caused by the stiffness of the hole cabinet. If you open both cabinets, you will see, why they sound so different. And don't forget to measure out the thickness of the used wood-blanks.
Was looking forward to this one. Amazing how different the two are. As for favourite, I just think it depends on what style you wanted to use them for as you said! Although I tend to like mixing a focused sound with a fatter tone underneath for the guts, even when doing the big filthy doomy stuff.
I think I liked the coffee cab in the mix on this one, sounded tougher and less nasal, like an angry Godzilla voice stomping through a devastated city or something.
That's so much more different than I expected!
I think I might prefer the Coffee cab tone in the Grindstein song. That dark and dirty tone just has something a bit uniquely disgusting to it, sounding like a bloodied up rusty chainsaw or something. 😎
It's 11:15AM my time, but I figure this is worth getting out the popcorn and the beer. Here we go…
We need an Coffee cab IR pack!!!
Damn Kohle! What a huge difference, I didn't expect that. I have a Blackstar OS412 and a Zilla 212 OS both with mixed speakers like your cabs. Now I'm thinking testing all speakers in both cabs..... overkill but I'm curious 😁
I really liked the round and "warmer" sound of the DV77 in the Coffee Cab, in direct comparison the Mesa feels almost harsh - but the clarity is awesome. And the instant metalcore vibe is just killer 😆
Great video, Grüße aus Franken 🤘
also I'm thinking Mesa -> tight clarity, perfect for death, thrash, fast & tight stuff. Coffee -> much more suited for doom, sludge, heavier, looser. "Meatier" I think is a suitable word 😆
Completely stunned about how big the differences are. If that was coming from somebody else, I'd bet that those were different speakers. Funny enough I found that the DV-77 didn't perform as hoped in my Hesu 212. I preferred the original double Hesu Demon setup in the end.
When buying make sure you are getting what you pay for. The standard size gets shipped in place of oversized. It may be a mistake, but this was three different times. Yes they did pay for return and send the correct cab after the second or third try.
Holy shit! You were not kidding when you said they sound different. Unbelievable!
Finally! Welcome to the Coffee Club, dear Kohle. I had and played both cabs (with different speakers), and vastly prefer the Coffee. Btw, I like the Cappuccino a little better, it is even tighter. My go to cab for metal.
The Mesa is damn scooped, nearly no low mids, flubby bass and (at least for me) supringsly harsh in this comparison. Yeah, industry standard etc, but definitly not my cup of hot beverage anymore. 😉
Thats nuts
Thanks for doing this! And everything else! May I ask, what's your take on frontloaded vs rear loaded in general? Have you ever worked with a Diezel 4x12 frontloaded? If yes, what was your impression?
Ich finde beide sehr gut. Ggf. auch eine Mischung aus beiden bei einem Mix. Hatte mal das Glück IRs von Coffee Audio abzugreifen. Mit Creambacks und Red. Sehr gute IRs.
Die Mischung macht‘s! Da haste recht!
would it be the slant vs straight cab difference? they sound so different and cc sounds like a "boss hm-2-rized" cab.(in an interesting way)
I agree with what you say about Mesa, that the note is defined and focused and gets rid of a lot of extra junk. The problem to me is the focus in the 2-4k of those cabinets. Yes I hear everything but I'm constantly immediately overwhelmed with that ice pick feeling. It's clear but harsh. The coffee cab sounded completely insane at the end. Gives that Kurt Ballou almost kind of feel. The mesa give that 2000's overproduced sound honestly. It will work for a lot of things but you're right, we like slimy and dirty metal here.
Danke ..ne weitere box die ich brauch... die coffee audio klingt hammer... die bude wird voll...
Ich kann auch schon kaum noch laufen! Alles voll 😂
@@KohleAudioKult wozu auch? Switcher hin, sitzen und fühlen❤️
I have been using glen frickers coffee lungo ir for a while now in my studio blended with the dv77’s ir you released some time back. I get great unique tones for my reamped tracks. Maybe we will see a khole lungo pack with various speakers available soon🙏🏻🙏🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻
Wow wie unterschiedlich...
Habe ja auch schon mal ne Mesa gegen eine Coffee getestet. Mesa war mit V30 bestückt und die Coffee mit K100 China unten und V30 aus ne alten Engl oben . Waren beide nicht so dolle außeinander wie hier.
Bin gespannt auf einen Test mit z.b. einem Mesa V30 in jeweils beiden Boxen der gleiche Speaker.
Alles in allem toll solche vergleiche zu hören.
Mach weiter so!
Das ist “close-miked” immer viel besser hörbar als im Raum.
Interesting! Immediately, when I heard the COFFEE cab I was thinking about the ENGL 4x12 with V30s. I assumed, as Kohle did, it is the frontmount situation on these cabs, that play a big part in this! Preference: None, specially! Both sound great for what they deliver. In the Mix at the end, I thought the COFFEE did sit better in it, melting the frequencies together with the bass. On the other hand, that mushy midrange...
fully expected the low end difference but the highend, wow! doesnt sound like same speakers
4:15 says it all
Incredible how much the cabinet impacted the sound of the same model speaker. So not only can you combine speakers to get a unique tone, you could even combine the sound of the Mesa and the coffee with the same speakers in each and have a unique sound. I'd love to hear what that sounds like!!!! 🤘🏻🤘🏻🔥
That part of the video (the tone blending) goes into my upcoming academy.
That's nuts, however I like both for very different reasons. Coffee would probably be ace with a Boss HM-2 and JCM800 through it.
I have a 2x12 half back with a Black Shaddow up top and EVM12L in the bottom. I can't imagine how loud the 4x12 would be! The 2x12 can handle some power and sounds scary good with 50 watts. I want a 4x12. I will need a 100 watt amp, time to shop.lol
What immediatelly hit me when switching from Coffee to Messa is a really prominent 4k whistle that I really hate, when switched to Coffee it is completelly gone, interesting. I have my Coffee audio Latte 2x12 in studio and it is so good as well.
You only notice it because it’s such a stark contrast when switching between the coffee cab and the Mesa cab, and how pulled out that frequency is in the coffee. It’s your ears are playing tricks on you.
Always interesting, always informative, always METAL. Thanks. Bascially Metalcore vs Deathcore lol.
Id love to hear the coffee cab with the speaker rear loaded.
Please please do a comparison with the old 90s peavey 4x12ms with the metal front, vs the industry standard mesa. The Peavey just needs it's stock Sheffield 1290s swapped with some V30s.
Awesome. Kinda makes me want to try rearloaded vs frontloaded on my Cab project (early 70s Goodmans Bass 4x12, oversized too). The baffle got fucked with random port holes by the previous owner anyways, so I don't mind modifying it to frontloaded making more screw holes. I suspect the rearloading makes it behave like a tiny little horn acoustically.
Please try that!
I also have two great sounding Goodmans speaker over here! Good stuff!
All that "Hash" on the top end of the clipped waveform is the stuff I dial out of every circuit I tweak. To each is own, but I'm just not a sizzle guy.
Thinking Mesa takes the win for me. If I wanna add dirt, there's a pedal for that.
When you get some time, you should make a video to try and tone match the 2 cabs in some way to see how hard it is to clean up the coffee sound, vs how easy it is to dirty up the Mesa sound
would love to hear them blended on quad tracked guitars
Did you connect DV-77 straight to the amp without other speakers being involved? Or did connect DV-77 with 3 other speakers in the cabs?
I really liked the mesa and diezel sound
I preffered the Mesa here, but thats just a legendary cab. Also, with my KSR 412 and Zilla 212, my DV77s sound closer to how they sound in your Mesa OS and thats just a sound I prefer. I do notice on the Mesa OS, and this is a problem I have too, there is a lot of harshness at 4k and I end up aggressively notching that out.
Damn, that Coffee Cab is a beast.
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They are wildly different! It would be very cool if the difference is the cabs, however after seeing Glenn Frickers review where he used the same speaker, it wasn't very different at all. So its one of those things that I just am not sure if its the speaker or the cab being different. Very good video though :)
Curious why both cabs aren't either slants or bottoms?
wouldve loved to hear both together in a mix.
I just prepared a tone blending course for my upcoming academy where I did exactly that.
Coming out in October!
Wow!! When you switched from the Coffee to the Mesa, it sounded horrible! There was annoying frequency around 2K... But then the Mesa sounded way better with that second amp s you said... Very cool. By the way, my grandma said to say hi!!
I want to hear this cab with DV-77's mixed with creamback neo's
good man. that was a quick turnaround for that vid. hahahahah. i prefer the koffe cab in the mix. sounds more mix ready to my ears. but prefer the mesa solod. strange.
The coffee cab is still tight too, with the slime heavy in the mids, Mesa has cleaner mids and a tight bottom .. to my ear at least
think both cabs panned left & right would be a great compliment in a mix
Or blended
Both cabs sound great, but hearing you play always makes me want more Another Perfect Day material.
Haha! Really?
@@KohleAudioKult No lie.
Any experience with the early 2000's Randall XL Cab? It is essentially their version of Rectifier cab, almost identical dimension and same speakers.
Nope, but would be interesting! I remember using a Randall Isocab with a V30 and it sounded really good.
Idk i definitely hear a high end whisper/white noise resonance going on with the mesa. With the coffee, it’s a little lower in frequency and less prevalent in general. The coffee seems to just shift the freq content down a bit
What about Engl XXl? I rarely here it anywhere
Pooh Bear wins it all. Coffee is dirty, very dirty i like it very much, but for Grindstein song I prefer Messa. Greate video as always!
Hi Kristian, do you prefer the ENGL oversized 412 or the Mesa one? Maybe you could do a video comparing them :)
Grüße aus NRW
Which one is your favorite and why? 😈
It's almost like a difference between a produced album with the Mesa and a basement recording with the Coffee cab. I'd have to take the Mesa OS and blend the DV-77 I bought because of you with a scratchier speaker like the upper end of a V30. If the Coffee cab sounds so filthy with a smooth DV-77 then I can't imagine what a V30 would be like out of it. Maybe I'm nuts.
hey man you ever dabbled in Nunez amplifiers, it's guys from Torche insanely heavy powerful sound! I'd love to see a comparison, as which I would like more, depends on the style as you stated
the mesa its warmer more for nu metal and the coffe cab has more upper mid and tighter bass for mor extreme metal
In terms of the Grinstein song the coffee audio cab sounds better to me because it supports the guitartone way more!
Is the Mesa you used actually a slant and the coffee a straight? Also, is the Mesa being tolex wrapped and the coffee being naked, might that have something to do with the tonal difference? Is one of the dv-77 broken in more than the other or both brand new? My OCD is telling me you need to go full science not halfway after hearing the 2 🤣 🤣😂
I'm liking the Mesa more personally. The coffee looks quite sexy, but I'd rather have that cleaner/tighter tone to be easier to start with and use pedals or even plugins in post for the extra dirt when needed.
How can the framing around the two exact same speakers make such a difference?!
that coffee is thick ! love it \m/
I think a lot of the difference is slanted vs straight. You can get the similar results when you mic the bottom speaker in a slanted cab, but you get some weird phasing from the reflections of the top speaker.
Believe me, there’s no way slanted vs straight can make such a difference.
By using the Coffee, you are loosing the deSignals? (Even on my cell Phone speakers). The Mesa sounds way more on point even though the high end rattle might be too much. Still amazed on how much the tone changes with the same speaker in different cabs. Didn't expect that much of a difference. Might be worth grindsteining the signals?
I would love to see a video with the Barefaced 2x12 cabs, uprising and radical
Never heard of them. Tell me more!
@@KohleAudioKult Supposedly it's an whole new design for cabs from a dude on england that raises the low end like an closed back cab, but mantains the dispersion of the frequencies for higher frequencies while also mantaining an higher efficiency (volume) if I understanded correctly. I don't know how much of this would be interesting in an studio context with closed mics, but the room mics would definitely would respond different, maybe even usable as the main source of the overall tone instead of close mics? I guess with more dispersion of the frequencies it might be less phase cancelation? I don't know...
Even the Reformer 1x12 might be interesting in a metal context despite the size. I heard that they sound quite big for such small cabs (and you would have the pure sound of a single speaker).
There's still little to no info of then, specially for guitar, I couldn't even find an IR for it.
Bass players seems to love then though!
There's this video here explaining the basic concept of the AVD design: ua-cam.com/video/OgkxjWZhfcw/v-deo.html
And here's some about the bass cabs: ua-cam.com/video/jGf4N2WgQdQ/v-deo.html
I guess it would be the most different cab that you've tried yet =), maybe a hidden gem for metal, maybe not, only one way to find out!
In practical terms, I would use the mesa for faster, metalcore/thrashy extreme metal. The coffee for deathcore/slam/downtempo, even doom metal sounds. It has that very agressive yet modern full range sound.
Ooph yes. I'm also what your thoughts are on the Roadking OS Cab?
On a side note, Coffee got some IR's out of the Lungo already, a V30/k100 combo.
The Road King cab just offers some additional features intended for cleaner tones.
@Deconstruction 33 It's supposedly constructed differently, with the V30's closed off in a separate chamber and C90's in the open part.
There are several speakers I'd be interested in hearing in that coffee cab, I'd like to hear a celestion blue, Maybe a K100, Definitely a couple man-o-war speakers. There's something interesting with that cabinets sound I can't put my finger on, However, I like it a lot. Maybe it's that it's not as bright in the mids, so it has an almost natural scoop? Which is good, it's better to have the source sound that way than to try to create that sound with an EQ.. if that's the sound you want.
There was a speaker you did a long while back I can't remember, it was in a relatively odd cabinet, that absolutely ripped. In short, there's a lot to explore with that cabinet that could be interesting.
You can hear the Celestion Blue on that cab in last week’s video on this channel! 😱
@@KohleAudioKult oof shows how spotty my memory can be because I watched that video lol
I actually quite like those classic kind of under powered speakers when they are pushed hard. Creambacks also some interesting things when pushed hard.
I'd really really really love to see a bass cab shootout series. 4X10, 2X12, 15"s of all the major brands plus a couple of lesser known, much less pricey yet quality brands like Ashdown. Bass cab comparisons are pretty rare on UA-cam and they're not comprehensive at all. Mostly only a review, not a comparison. Fender vs Mesa Boogie vs Orange, I'm nodding off there, bro. Something new would be nice, all featuring your favorite bass amp and mic(s) so that all things are equal except the cabs. That would be Fing wonderful!!! Super helpful for people like me who has to drive 5-6 hours to get to a proper music store. I can't even buy strings here. Puerto Vallarta to Guadalajara. Probably a two day trip. I might as well just fly to Houston, 2 hours, and rent a car and save 50% - 100% compared to the prices listed on Amaz mex or Mercadolibre.
Hey man!
Check out the bass playlist on this channel.
At least you’ll find a bass speaker shoot out
@@KohleAudioKult Thanks! Somehow I missed it. I'm old. LOL
I would love to hear some greenbacks on that coffee cab
Can we get an IR of the DV-77 in the Coffee Cab? That combo is awesome.
I guess I’ll come up with a “DV77 in other cabs” kind of IR pack!
Was wir Mal wieder daraus lernen ist das keine Box besser klingt als eine Mesa 4x12 oversized 🤤
Have been listening to a number of speaker/cabinet comparisons lately. Herr Kohlekeller makes great videos on this topic, absolutely proving how guitarists underestimate the relative importance of speaker/cab on tone. One of the elements that was discussed in his videos is that each individual speaker might sound different, and one should use the same speaker when comparing cabinets, so literally, physically switching out that individual speaker into each cabinet, everytime.
All of this has made me curious about the following - likely insane - speaker/cab shootout: buy/get two or three of the exact same brand and model cabinets (preferably new, in order for the speaker to be similarly non broken-in), and compare the tone. Make that comparison for a number of brands/models. Curious how different they could be...
In think there won’t be much of a difference between the brands. The differences will be the same. That’s because I’m pretty sure the cabinet brands don’t select speakers. They just put in what they get from Celestion as long as it’s working.
@@KohleAudioKult
Thank you for replying to my comment! Just curious how for example the Mesa Oversized 4x12 vs Harley Benton 4x12 shootout would turn out if 3 of each cabinet are put to the test. Who knows the differences we perceive in the tests of mr. Fricker and mr. Tone King are 'statistically random'. In no way do I want to disrespect those two shootouts, by the way :). I think they did a pretty terrific job.
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I like both. Better to have more cabs than amps. IMO 🤘🤘🤘🤘💯💯❤️❤️❤️❤️
Absolutely! They just need a tiny bit more space 🤪
The Mesa Cab played with the D-Moll is a No-Brainer. We are using it with a Gibson SG Standard for Rhythm Guitar. Chugga Chugga all the way...
I liked the Coffee cab.
Could be a great cab to throw a combination of two types of speakers in like those Jensen speakers you did a video with.
The Electric Lightning and the ??? (I can’t remember now)
Yeah. That speaker could work in there.
I want to put rear mount speakers in the coffee !!
drop c guitar tuning?
I greatly prefer the Mesa with this speaker. It sounds like the Coffee might tame some more abrasive speakers such as the T75. For DV-77 and probably V30, I would take the Mesa.