It's complete corruption. Microsoft and Apple both do it. They try to control repairs with special tools and software where there employees can only repair your devices that you bought. There should be a boycott on all these companies.
Imagine what happens to our ability to feed ourselves if there is ever a mass coronal ejection that knocks out the GPS systems. If it occurs at a time coincidental to planting or harvest, it could be catastrophic. And that's just looking at the logistics. On the socioeconomic side, John Deere (along with other tractor manufacturers) and their lobbyists are effectively turning farmers back into serfs who are beholden to their master's whims. Productivity is fine, but are those marginal gains worth what the farmers have been giving up in flexibility, reliability, and the freedom to call the shots on their own farm?
Another factor not mentioned - Deere has eliminated smaller dealers by forcing them to sell out , or simply forcing them out of business with tactics that skirt legality and are ethically bankrupt.
Agree with all of this. The argument of 'this tech is so beyond you mortals' scares the normal person that doesn't have experience with the equipment. Most folks just want to be able to do a self re-set, after changing out a filter/ware part. They aren't asking to rig the thing up to a RC controller to drive the thing from home. It's only illegal if someone calls them out on it >.
@@crinkly.love-stick Russia is more than ready to sell you agricultural equipment which are on the same technological level to what exists in the west. All of them were designed to be DIY repairable and restorable IN THE FIELD with simple hand tools. Anything electronics and electricals has quadruple redundancies and can easily be accessed and repaired with simple household hand tools. And Russia can set up shop containing all of the components of all farm equipment and it will be again just like the the 1970s and 1960s and 1950s and 1940s and 1930s when if something needs fixing you can just use your hand tools that you have, check what is wrong, then go to the nearest mechanic hardware shop and buy the component replacement spare parts and go back to your place and fix it up within a very short time. If you want to, Russia will even set up a components' refurbishing shop to dismantle all components and figure out on how to restore their components back to pristine condition just like brand new. That is, if this tension between our two countries is allowed to thaw out first.
@@highlandrab19 - That is also true. But JD provides what the customer needs, then they work out a strategy. A farmer, in other words, the customer will not continue to invest every year. What is often forgotten is that selling is a kind of psychology in which one has to bind the customer. And how they have done that has also been successful in recent years.
@@highlandrab19 trouble is, all the large ag sector is doing the same thing. for some reason Deere takes the majority of the heat. Try working on a Fednt or Claas without dealer support.
"Safety" is the hypothetical "buzz word" used by any company trying to keep technology proprietary. We all know, it's nothing more than a money grab. I'm rooting for the farmers!!
yeah, they talk about airplane safety, but they're forgetting that the 737-Max's MCAS and the hundreds of deaths it caused was a fault of Boeing's total Lack of Transparency, and likewise John Deere should be more transparent
Sure, what they can repair but these machines are state of the art. Farmers should have these under warranty & JD should send out techs to solve any needed repairs.
@@hiitsrudd8567 yea,but these farmers should be able to buy the software and be able to repair the machines they own. The manufacturers charge too much to fix a simple problem that can be diagnosed with a computer and the right part. Just like cars,the dealers make most of their profits in the service department,but in cars you can buy a code reader for a reasonable price and fix it yourself.
The John Deere spokesman making a claim that a tractor (going down the road at 10mph) has the same safety concerns as an airplane (going 600mph at 30,000 feet) was hilarious. I'll bet it was hard for him to keep a straight face.
Every major corporation’s middle to upper management are filled with scumbag liars like that guy. Honesty and integrity is not in them….. Been with a major manufacturer for 25 years and it’s sad to see what corporate greed has done to once great companies. I hope the tide is turning and lower level employees start standing up to them as well as consumers. There isn’t a CEO on the planet that’s worth the kind of money they are making while factory workers struggle in futility to even keep up with inflation…..
@@grizzlygrizzle Nah definitely a Trump guy, how much has he embezzled over his presidency? Why didn't trump put Deere in check? I thought he was going to drain the swamp?
Massive respect to the farmers out there. Clarkson's farm taught me a lot. A lot of work goes into farming and razor sharp margins. Support Right to repair.
If your family already owns a farm you can scrape out a living. If you want to buy one it's likely you won't ever make enough money to even just outpace interest let alone survive. Don't let farms die. They won't return.
@@user-hv6wb5gk8p yep one of the reasons im not a farmer as my grandpa's discouraged me from thinking about it. the only way i would now days is to pay off yearly tax's aka a tax break ect. and not a full time job
@@richardprice5978 I have thought about buying a farm and farming for the last couple of years. I was born to the land and miss it. I will continue to work full time in tech while communing with the land.
@@misanthropyunhinged very true. Look at the opposition to Linux by Microsoft and Bill Gates' stooges and all the law suites brought to scuttle innovation in computer tech. The world would still be using windows vista if it were to "Americans".
@@misanthropyunhinged That's only half of it. Having to deal with all the garbage people from places like whatever 3rd world dump you live in doesn't help either. Stay in your own country. There's no shame in making shoes for your family out of old tires.
Here in the UK right to repair is coming in. Unfortunately it will not stop car manufacturers sourcing inappropriate spares. It is often the case that something like a touch screen goes wrong but all the manufacturer will offer is a replacement for the whole head unit at around 50% of the market value of the car or a very expensive repair by the head unit supplier. Then there are very simple things like windscreen washer pumps. This should be a £10 item but on my Nissan Leaf it was £50 sup;lied only by the manufacturer. Then the labour cost for fitting it was £100. Ridiculous. It appears that the car was not designed to be serviced by its owner.
What John Deere is doing is despicable. Once machinery is out of warranty they have NO right to refuse tech support and refuse to sell parts. Insisting it must be by THEIR service amounts to a protection racket. Organized Crime.
I think the farmers know what they are doing.. as a matter of fact without them we are done as a food nation. Farmers are the backbone of America most likely most Farmers can do any repair on their equipment and just about everything else!!!!
I am 100% on the side of the farmers on this one. Right to repair is a big deal, & not just for farmers. I work in the autiomotive industry, & let me just say that if we let John Deere get away with this tomfoolery, very soon the automotive market will follow suit. Do you want the right to change your own engine oil? Or modify your own suspension? Look at Tesla, they are the John Deere of vehicle manufacturers. I have had many customers opt to NOT buy a Tesla because of the tesla exclusive "repair facilities" that are few & far between, with wait times of 3+ months for a simple repair. Dealers are already getting backed up due to parts shortages, to take away the mom & pop's shop's right to repair, we are going to be left with no choice but to take it back to the dealer & be at their mercy for how long the repair will take as well as the cost to repair. We need to nip this in the bud before companies see right to repair a thing of the past. It may affect primarily farmers for the time being, but that will change very soon if we dont speak up on their behalf.
automotive industry is already trying to do it. i have an 09 toyota tundra which i have maintained / fixed everything by myself on. there's only one thing i can't do in my home garage, change the transmission fluid, which should be a similar process to engine oil. but nope no way to do it normally, you need a special machine. Guess what part on my truck is now showing issues? (edit: i did take it in for a tranny fluid swap about 4 years ago)
Yup! We pay enough for software to fix your new vehicles each year and it's getting harder to fix newer vehicles each year. I think vehicle dealers would like to MAKE you take your vehicle to them for service. The key switch broke on my Honda Accord and it would've cost under $100 to fix it a few year's ago, now I have to pay $1400 for a couple keys and the dealer to program my old 15 year old car...if my husband hadn't just put a new transmission in it, the car would've been sent to the junk yard. If you care about the environment, don't keep wanting more and more complex vehicles as they end up in the junk yard sooner than they used to.
The electronics & computing industry is another one that will benefit heavily from Right to Repair legislation. Cell phone manufacturers for instance have deliberately made it absurdly difficult for independent local repair shops to get the replacement parts they need to fix your phone. If you get an iPhone repaired by Apple, they'll charge hundreds of dollars for a simple screen replacement. While meanwhile when I had an iPhone 7, I got the screen replaced by a locally owned repair business for only $80 and it worked perfectly. Right to Repair is important for all industries in my opinion. Manufacturers want to have a monopoly on repairing their products so that they can charge whatever they want. The fact that Right to Repair is controversial whatsoever is insane to me. Right to Repair has been an expectation in the automotive industry for years now. It doesn't mean that you HAVE to repair your stuff yourself, it just means that you have the RIGHT to do so if you want to.
If we don't speak on their behalf...... I've been out of North America for 10 years but I don't understand why I'm seeing Western people, for whom speaking out is a point of identity, something we rub into the faces of our Asian comrades - afraid to speak out. Why are Western people reluctant to speak out lately?
Knowing not much about this, John Deere lost me the moment they equated the safety of a tractor going down a dirt road to a 777 flying at 40,000 ft with 200+ people flying over the pacific ocean.
His analogiy is totally wrong because dont airlines own the equipement and maintain their own planes. i dont think have to go back to boeing everytime they need something repaired
@@Hotspur37 yes the have to go back to boeing.because the onley one to repair the plaine are ingeniers from boeing.and you onley may use boeing certifid tools and replacement parts .if you lost a scruw to hond the toilet handel you have to order one at boeing because if you use an other one you will bring the plaine and passagers in danger .
Exactly what I thought, with one exception, a home repair on a 777 could get it hijacked by way of computer. So really it's more like 1000+ people. But same idea, these two analogies are not the same, or don't equate.
We just bought a new tractor ( $120K) and we didn't even look at the John deer option because they are reprehensable as a company, the JD guy at the end saying they are trying to stop people modifying the machines made my blood boil, we HAVE to modify machinery because there are so many different use cases that the manufacturers don't think of and the work needs to be done!.
In my country, I could call a guy to modify my tractor, e.g. modify the sofware so that I won't need A-Blue anymore. But then it wouldn't be street-legal anymore. So I don't do it. But having that law would solve the problem, the CTO stated in the end of this video; if he was honest.
Out of curiosity, wat brand is that which gave you the equipment and diagnostics software plus source codes along with the tractor you bought? People are targetting deere, but virtually no other group does that either.
@@fermewilmotsagriculturebio3434 The computer side is only one aspect, JD is not the ONLY company doing it they just seam to be the leaders in going in that direction in their industry. Just like Apple seams to be leading it in phones/computers, but the other companies soon follow. Small business’s are important to the economy for filling in niches (among other things of course) and need to be protected.
Honestly, I think it would be best if a group of farmers banded together and made their own company which to make tractors which are easily modifyable and easily repairable. Think of it this way: A new tractor is around $100, possibly double if you include accessories. A few dozen farmers (or less) could likely get enough funding to make their own agricultural-vehicle company, to make their own tractors from scratch, so that in 5-10 years they won't need to worry about the non-repairability and the insider-trading (since all those tractors get data which is then sent to the company whose branding they hold, and so they know how much product is being made at any moment in time, everywhere where their company's agricultural vehicles are used). Not only that, but the major companies in this field likely have part of their shares held by the same company, which gives said company access to that data, which allows that company or it's subsidiaries or partners (likely owned by the same people) to make use of the insider data they have access to. This alone could be used by the farmers to make those major companies lose a lot of revenue, and either be forced to change their ways, or get bought by others, possibly bought by the very same farmers who are opposing them, to make those products repairable again.
I am surprised to see a lack of comments about the data analytics side of the software that was mentioned in this video! Consider what John Deere generates for themselves by way of compiling the harvesting information from the thousands of farmers who use their equipment. If they have all of that information on every field in the US that uses their technology, then they can prognosticate all futures-related markets and game the system! Where is their accountability for what they do with it? Can we honestly believe that there is no market for such information or that they are too honest a company to sell it off or use it to make their own investment decisions? That is an open door to insider trading! This should be thoroughly investigated, documented, and made public record or there is no way it should be legal. We are all being affected by this issue--whether we recognize it or not, we all have skin in the game on what is taking place.
@@kylehaake7859 the farmers pay for the gps software, John Deere then collects the information, John Deere then sells the info. Imagine going to work and making something using your bosses money, and your boss paying you to make it, then getting paid every time that product sells.
Farmers’ live on the razors edge of profitability and take on debt to maintain competition in a field dominated by agribusiness’ manufacturers and GMO seed companies. Farmers think they can give up data without giving up their rights to the land, which consolidated agribusiness and banks will easily confiscate farmers land by foreclosures. Due to mechanization at the current stage the few remaining farmers hardly represent a meaningful blip on the political landscape.
This is so easy to use to manipulate the price farmers are paid for their products. Don't think for one second that this is not being done on some level by the individuals with this knowledge. Corporate or private. Greed ensures this.
AGREED! One would think a farmer's yield information is 'proprietary' to that farmer instead of being considered as part of the machine's data for performance purposes. It would be interesting to know if JD Capital Corp. does open market trading.
Hospitals are facing similar problems with repairing medical equipment. Health care prices are skyrocketing! *United we stand:* Farmers, doctors, nurses, engineers, technicians and everyone else. We're all in this together for the right to repair!
Eh, I have a hard time blaming health care prices on the equipment itself. other countries use the same gear and do not see the same problems. and tbh, medical equipment is really one of those cases where you really do not want 3rd parties making modifications or repairs, they go through a pretty rigorous certification process and tinkering with them invaliates that.
@@neeneko i have a buddy who works for a surgical tool company, he makes around 75k a year, gets flown all around the US, multiple times a week (all expenses paid) and he literally scrubs in and stands on hand in case the tools experience any problems... he's like an "on demand maintenence technician/manual".... he said he *rarely* has to intervene. You dont think thats a bit of a racket? 🤪
It's a complicated issue, but I'm with the farmers on this one. If JD hadn't gouged the farmers with the repair costs, it probably would have never been a big deal. However, when you have to pay a several thousand dollar service call just so a technician can determine which sensor to order, it gets folks hot under the collar. Lots of time and money wasted and it's all the farmer's time and money.
This unfortunately only scratches the surface about how deep John Deer is willing to go. There are now subscription fees on some of the software being used in these vehicles, to the point where you can't start a piece of equipment that you have bought an paid for.
And it All goes into the CEO's friggen deep pockets while YOU have to sell your product at wholesale prices set by his bankers! Can you see where this is going??
@@nadmaster101 That's fine then stop buying their software if you are only renting it. Buy only from companies that sell their software not rent it out. However you can only rent out software if it gets taken away from you at the end of the rental agreement. Otherwise it's not called renting, it's called selling.
@@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket Farming is a time based commodity. You only have a narrow window for planting and then harvesting a crop. Usually only days at best. A big farmer can lose millions from Friday to Monday due to the lazy stealership.
It's not complicated at all when you look at the way the laws were intended. It doesn't matter how much they charge the farmers for It's illegal for them to prohibit farmers from modifying or repairing something they already own by preventing other companies from fixing the equipment. For the CEO of JD to compare safety of aircraft that have hundreds of lives on board to a tractor is so laughable and absurd. By the way the aircraft owned by the airlines are all repaired by the airlines themselves that employ their own mechanics.
What is incredible about Right to Repair is that you have people from all walks of life joining in, from farmers to electronics consumers. Many of these people may never agree on "trending" topics the politicians, news or social media influencers would love to talk about, but they come together to face the issue nonetheless. This is a great example of people finding allies for problems they truly care about, rather than caring about problems based on which camp they are in.
If a product (car, tractor, phone...) is purchased by a person or business, then they have the right to repair what they own. It should be that simple, otherwise it's not ownership. John Deere should only lease equipment if they intend to prevent 3rd party repair. That would stop planned obsolescence. Aviation is a highly-regulated industry for safety, and comparing farm equipment to aircraft is like a 3 year old declaring he's a "big boy", but not cute.
@@joel8340. i agree with your sentiment, but lots of older tractors are in use. The way i see the issue is that there will be no 50 yr tractors coming out of modern john deere. They aren't cost effective to keep running with only dealer repairs, especially not for second owners.
@@joel8340. sorry but there is a lot of tractors out there 50 yrs old and still working just fine,,,, will a 2022 tractor be working in 30 yrs ? , I doubt it !! Sounds like a big problem on the horizon 🤔
@@joel8340. actually due to this very issue, old tractors are going up in value, because while the new technology might be nice when it works, between emissions and inability to repair the newer stuff, a lot of guys are snapping up the older stuff and basically restarting production on parts.
@@ke6gwf my grandpa has shed with like 20 small tractors from 50s to 70s all pretty basic smaller ones size of car… not sure why he keeps buying more they don’t seem worth more than 5k
The most frustrating part of all this to me has to be the availability of their monopolized repair service. John Deere caters to an industry that is almost entirely centered on TIMING. Calendars were invented for hunting, gathering, and farming. Farmers lives revolve around brief windows of opportunity. Only so much time to plant, tend and harvest. If a vital piece of machinery breaks down it is often devastating. John Deere makes these complex systems, lock them behind proprietary barriers saying only certain people are able to work on them and the limit the number of and time they're available to regular business hours? Farmers and their equipment aren't 9 to 5, they're 24/7. So if you're gonna try to say that this is too complicated, technical, dangerous, or valuable for Farmer Fred to repair himself, you better have a service that can keep it working when he needs it most. It is unacceptable for a farmer to have to wait DAYS for repairs on a piece of equipment he only has days to use. They should offer access to materials and training for people willing and able to repair themselves.
As more of the machines get old they will break down more often. How many mechanics will each John Deere dealer have as the number of repairs for these machines increase??? Will a John Deere Mechanic work on Sunday?? As you said time is extremely valuable to farmers. Most farmers have their own reliable mechanics they can call on during emergencies.
@@wkb8326 JD is a finance company now. The only reason they build machinery is so they have something to finance. They are not interested in repairs at all. Ultimately they want a steady, neverending stream of payments in exchange for providing equipment. They are more interested in replacing than repairing.
John Deere WAS a great company. I have a 1955 John Deere model 70 gas tractor that turns heads. I even work with it sometimes. A beautiful machine. But my neighbour's modern Deere tractor is a nightmare, requiring transport hundreds of miles to a dealership for even the simplest of repairs. The company's assault on farmers and their right to repair will cost them dearly in the end. Sorry, no pun intended.
most companies where great back in the day! SHAREHOLDERS fixed that! Gatta have that huge profit every year so people can let there money do the work! very sad system that goes against the customer!
This is why John Deere equipment from the the early 2000's and earlier are bringing such high prices at action. They are well built and you can fix them yourself.
we have 2 john deere lawn tractors..one is a 200 form the 1970s and other is a 160 from the 1980s..BOTH are easy to fix with simple tools..the sad part? ANY part from a john deere service shop for BOTH costs hundreds if its even available anymore..even for a small part like a carburetor jet..so alot of the parts on both we bought used on ebay..
I work for a company that builds mining trucks and equipment, We have worked hard to keep the equipment simple and easy to repair. We use old tried and true engines and wire things up in a way that is easy to understand. The miners love our equipment because it is easy to fix.
The fact that it's still being debated is a demonstration of how broken the system is. Patent and copyright laws already protect intellectual property; it is not necessary to ban people from repairing their own equipment in order to prevent them from seeing how it works, because it's already illegal for them to rip-off whatever proprietary technology they find inside.
That is true and I think this is one of the basics of the lawsuit. Should we be okay with most anything built with technology (intellectual property), come with a service contract.
The way I see it the farmers have the right to repair just not the tools to do it. Who can stop you from breaking in their software if you're smart enough to do that?
John Deer : The $ you give us for our products is OURS, and OURS forever, but those products you paid us that money for ...well we've decided you're kind of renting them
About 20 years ago I purchased a JD front loader, one day it would not start so I called JD to see about getting a mechanic to fix it, they told me the bill would be $1000 the second he stepped out of the truck, plus hourly rate, plus parts. I fixed it myself, it was a $50 part, have kept it running myself ever since. FJD
So why didn't you just fix it yourself in the first place? It's this way weather it's John Deere, Caterpillar, Case etc.Those tech's are getting $40 an hour or more, it isn't gonna be cheap no matter what brand you run!!!
@@nicholasbrown7068 It was my first piece of heavy equipment, and first diesel. I now own multiple machines and fix them myself. I would have gladly paid $40 an hour, it was the $1000 charge for driving 15 miles in a service truck that I balked at. FJD!
Comparing the safety risks (14:10) of a farm tractor to a jet airliner is patently absurd. It was at that point that I was fully convinced of the purely mercenary purpose of John Deere's position on the right-to-repair issue.
Smart thing for farmers to do would be to dump John Deere and to turn to Caterpillar since they manufacture more reliable equipment that is not locked. John Deere is a clear indication why we must breakup large corporations and limit corporate monopoly.
@@Cheesecake99YearsAgo capitalism is like democracy it’s what you make of it. Either of them can be the best or worst systems. History has shown us what foolishness democracy can bring. And the present shows us the foolishness of capitalism now. Either way the stats shows it’s still better than other systems.
I work a small farm and a much larger heavy equipment repair shop. After hearing about farmers battles with right to repair on John Deere machines I boycotted them. I do not work on or buy ANYTHING from John Deere. I know I’m a drop in a sea of money to them but I cannot support a company like them. Thank you for the video!
Thank you. I always saw JD as coexisting with the farmers. Now I see different. They are not only selling out the farmers, but the rest of us too. Their next move may be to start buying farm land, and hire the farmer to work the land. Soon after we will start seeing Theodore Kaczynski tee shirts for sale lol
I am not a farmer, but live and work in large-scale farm country. The only competitor to JD here is Case. Are they doing the same thing concerning repairs?
@@fouresterofthetrees287 Yes. Unequivocally. The only reason you don't hear about it is being a bit smaller in size and not quite as draconian in their gouging... for now...
Comparing a tractor to a passenger jet is laughable! Absolutely nothing close to relating to each other in a safety aspect. The technologies may be comparable these days (which, farm equipment has no business being so advanced), but there is no way a malfunctioning tractor is going to be as dangerous as a malfunctioning jet, or any other aircraft.
I agree. Interestingly enough the FAA allows owners/operators to do a substantial amount of maintenance themselves prior to needing an FAA certified mechanic. Probably to an extent that would give that Jahmy Hindman an aneurysm if he knew about it. Even tasks that require government certified mechanics (A&P/IA) are not hard to accomplish as such specialists can be found at most airports and aren't employees of the aircraft manufacturers. Smh.
did you know: *the natural bioelectricity produced by a leaf on an oak tree is directly comparable to [insert most powerful capacitor discharge known here]*
I whole heartedly agree that if you buy a John Deere or a Tesla it is yours to repair or modify. These big companies are afraid they will lose sales and repair business. I think they are wrong. These farmers have proven their loyalty and deserve that to be honored.
@@youngguns1319 CAT has been making special changes to various bolt heads, and such to make it impossible to repair unless you have their specialized wrenches too.
Repairing your own equipment isn't about a "birthright", it's about staying in business. Labor costs can add up to thousands of dollars, not to mention the down time of having to wait for busy dealers to get to your equipment. One day of delay can mean thousands of dollars lost if a storm should come up and your crop is destroyed while you wait for your equipment to be fixed.
I was also speculating as to whether it is feasible for someone within the JD system to deliberately send an "error code" at a critical point to bring about exactly this scenario. This to manipulate the futures market and make a killing. This could be about way more than just "repair earnings."
Add into that, if no traveling techs then the farmers have to get the tractors to the dealers. If you have a large tractor that can also cost thousands.
@@Redmanticore You can buy the farm the land the equipment but farmers are independent individual who do their own stuff! It's not as simple as it sounds to farm.
@@DomGaccioli if you employ people to go spy on farms (without trespassing) and then collect that information and then use it, is it insider trading then? No. There as always people who have information about the market than others. Look at the people launching satellites to monitor the level of oil in storage tanks.
@@DomGaccioli He who can't afford a legal & analytics team can't navigate around 'insider trading'. *Most trading laws are just traps that keep the small fry small.*
John Deer “Tractors are like airplanes. You don’t want anyone able to work on them, a tractor on a highway is a safety concern like an airplane over a city”. 😂 1. I’ve never seen a tractor on a highway. 2. Tractor repairs have never been regulated… because it’s not a public safety concern. 3. Airplane repairs have always been Government regulated… because they carry hundreds of people over our public cities making them an actual public safety concern. 4. Just admit you’re being a greedy corporation trying to protect the new revenue stream of tech repair restrictions.
@@carlh-thehermitwithwi-fi679 Ahhh the people that have no idea about farming. Real farming... the big boy stuff. Kubota, the best they have is a 200ish hp tractor. That is it. They don't have tillage, planting, harvesting. Their best tractor couldn't even pull my planter, not even kidding. Ford? There is no Ford. New Holland, Case IH, Massey Ferguson (AGCO). Those are the main players in NA. They all operate the same way. And dispute what some of this propaganda says. Machines are being repaired by farmers and independent shops.
@@ShainAndrews went to the JD museum in Moline,Ill. They are the only manufacturer still in business under the same name. I grew up around farming and can’t even remember all the brands around back in the 60s.
Right to Repair, may be bad for John Deere or Apple, but it will open the flood gates for Americans to get back to fixing things instead of trashing machinery, etc. and stressing land- fills.
Farmers have been repairing their own equipment since the beginning of farming equipment. Taking that ability away is doing nothing but hurting everyone for greed
Just went through this with a hydrostat transmission on a John Deere 4052 loader. The forward pedal broke and we were able to replace it. However the pedals are fly-by-wire and have to be recalibrated whenever they are disturbed. The dealer had to send a service person out to hook up to their laptop. This isn't just farmers, but anyone that has a computerized tractor.
It's been going on for several years in my part of rural VA. Farms that "bled green" for generations now buy New Holland, Mahindra, Massey Ferguson, etc. Even non farm specific JD equipment is being replaced with other brands. Kubota and Mitsubishi SxS are replacing Gators. Older JD equipment brings higher prices at auction than newer stuff because you can work on the older machines yourself
I sometimes think that we go backwards, and I have personal experience of this with Caterpillar engines, the older engines ran forever with simple and minimal maintenance. Unfortunately although the newer engines when working are more efficient, when they go wrong it's a nightmare. We took the strange step of buying and reconditioning older engines and fitting them in place of the newer ones, which we sold off. Lo and behold repair costs plummeted, productivity increased and everyone was happy, technology is not always the way forward.
Aside from planned obsolescence, I think that new and improved technologies will almost inevitably come with reduced durability due to wanting to use less material and lighter (and weaker) parts and increased hassle when trying to diagnose and fix due to increased complexity.
@@Elemblue2 You are all correct in what you say in the above replies. We did an analysis of breakdowns and 55% were due to faulty sensors shutting engines down. The old cats had minimal electronics, so for us it was back to the older designs, luckily we didn't have to worry about emissions then.
Variations in circumventing technology exist worldwide today, just as always for necessity. ie: A late model chassis of car totally disabled by $$$$ tech failure, having engine and drive train removed for junk salvage, as the still functional chassis itself promptly harnessed to a horse or mule, for a comfy ride for 3rd world masses (with creativity) ;} Same as plentiful/cheap small diesel engines/transmissions/drive trains in 3rd world remote enclaves (formerly Communist), are installed (by creative entrepreneurs) in place of failed high tech power devices.. creating Tesla chassis (sans battery modules) diesels?
"Farming could not exist without John Deere" welp, 5 seconds into the video and we're already 0 for 1. Also, john deere squeezes farmers while the same farmers pledge their devotion as "john deere families" and insisting john deere would never do what john deere is doing, like a major stockholm syndrome, it's ridiculous and sad
@@karl6458 I would think that goes without saying…but I’m not talking about John deere. I’m talking about John deere farmers. They don’t say “well everyone does it so I can understand that my beloved John Deere does it too to be competitive”. No. They think their beloved join deere would never do it.
have to wonder if it ever occured to the CEO of John Deere that JD couldn't exist without farmers. Not so much now but a few years ago, equipment could be ordered from places like Japan and China. Kubota makes great equipment.
It's getting to be the same way in Deere's construction equipment. Had a bulldozer that threw a code that resulted in the computer reducing the throttle to half speed. Code turned out to be for a windshield wiper motor.
John Deere rightly point out that not permitting farmers to work on their tractors is a safety issue just like airliners. We've all seen the serious loss of life which arises when a tractor carrying 600 people crashes from 30,000 feet.
It gets me that none of these companies ever think about the longterm for this. Like it's actual insanity even from a purely pragmatic perspective. Had John Deere kept their (admittedly 100% unethical) practice of forcing small competitors out of business, but also make their tractors easy to repair and reasonable to buy, they could just sit at the top of the mountain with their monopoly and rake in cash forever, and exactly nobody would care because nobody would be inconvenienced. Their greed is unironically going to cause them to lose the monopoly they could have kept pretty much forever had they just been reasonable.
@@JK-br1mu I think the point here isn't a monopoly on sales. No one mentioned the issue was a sales monopoly. It seems they do have a monopoly in regards to servicing/repair unless the other brands you mentions have access to Deere software and licence to repair Deer equipment.
This is also an example where giving company executives the ability to make vast sums of money from stock price targets and not necessarily the real performance of the company has to distort how they see their jobs and has to influence their decisions.
@@Hebdomad7 That makes no sense. Then everyone would apply for the job that has the same pay but less work, if everyone made the same. Yes there is a major issue with how executives are paid, but any solution would have to at least be logical.
What people don’t realize is this affect everyone, not just rural farmers. Companies like Apple and many other tech companies are in this fight with John Deere.
We can't let your average consumer going in and repairing their iPhone. The safety concerns are kind of like in Aviation you know, you wouldn't want someone going in and repairing it!
@@SuperQBoi LoL. My laptop PC (5 years old) died because the battery no longer held charge. It was a complete pain in the neck prying the thing apart and pulling out the old battery and putting in a new one. These things are not designed to be fixed. And that is the crime. They want consumers to buy new every 2 or 3 years.
@@lyianx The auto industries are already regulated by right to repair laws. That's why we have NAPA auto parts, advanced auto parts, O'Reilly auto parts, etc. It is against the law for them to try to deny their consumers to repair their vehicles
The value of the data JD is collecting from those farmers using software on the equipment has massive value. They should be compensated for it or allowed to opt out.
You can opt out of Facebook to some extent. Google has some of that functionality as well. depends on the country you live in. Also worth considering if using software on a computer is the same as software that controls equipment/vehicles.
I hope the farmers win. I'm not a farmer, but I do have a few pieces of JD equipment in my fleet, it's a major hassle when we have a "software" issue. Unfortunately the money gets in the way.
A company Cannot tell a farmer in the midst of planting or harvesting they will have to wait till regular work days and hours for the dealer to fix the farmers problem or even deliver or make available parts needed. The farmer needs it NOW (or yesterday). !
"repairing a tractor is like repairing an airplane", right. So if a tractor breaks down on a highway (on a highway highway?) It doesn't crash down to earth killing all its passengers.... Haha John Deer should stop snorting fertilizer.
I repair deere equipment everyday, his comparison is pretty correct. Alot of our technology is borrowed from aeronautical industry. Our machine are now capable of full autonomy and can drive themselves with no operator present. Our electrical system are extremely complicated. Anytime we hire light vehicle or retired military mechanics, they can't hack it and quit and say it's too hard of a job.
I'm also a John Deere tech. These new tractors are way more complicated than most people realize. I'm all for everybody being able to work on them but a lot of farmers have to have their hands held every step of the way when they do some of the more complicated repairs on newer JD equipment
@@sleepyta yep that's the truth. If they do buy the customer version of service advisor, you'd have to spend days on the phone or in person teaching them how to use it. Only reason I want the farmers to win is for me to have the chance to work for myself
@@user-jl5rx9yx2p Sure they're as complicated as planes, but @Brattoes is right on one thing : the outcome if a tractor breaks are not as significant as if a plane crashes. A broken tractor will not turn wild and run over hundreds of people. It will just refuse to start. Justifying the need for a highly qualified mechanic over a security concern is a joke.
Some say it's a complicated issue. It's a very simple issue. Unless John Deere is issuing lifetime warranties they have no right to dictate who the owners use for repair.
Lolz! Lifetime warranties from such a pit of greed and selfishness? I think you're asleep. You must be dreaming of a major agro corporation capable of doing right without force. Seriously, I 💯% agree with you!
I use John Deere tractors and have for years, and the idea that anyone should be allowed to work on them and the company should still warranty their equipment no matter how badly a backyard mechanic messes it up doesn't make much sense.
@@MomMom4Cubs Just replying to the comment and yes you are right, I should have replied to the video piece. My point is just that nobody warrants any piece of equipment that hasn't been fixed by their own technicians for obvious reasons, and some of the people interviewed want to have it both ways. Or at least they leave a very strong impression that they hold that opinion.
@@freddexta3363 I agree wholeheartedly that no company wants to guarantee a product fiddled with by nonprofessionals. I did not, however, get the impression that anyone on the video wanted it both ways. It seemed clear to me that the preferred outcome is right-to-repair. However, since they reject right-to-repair, they should ante up and get warranty their products. I feel this is a poor solution because the days or weeks of lost production can be the death knell of a noncorporate farm.
I'm looking at a new tractor but I know it won't be a Deere. If anyone from John Deere is reading this by chance then you really should create programs that educate farmers, small shops providing repairs and empower them while also making money to expand that support program.
@@Milo-nz5gf kubotas not much better, once you get into the big equipment. I was a Kubota tech for 8 years. If you cancel the Regen system on an emissions compliant Kubota 4 consecutive times, a tech needs to come out with a laptop.
"John Deere must convince their customers and their employees that they care about more than just profits" And they cannot. They have already shown that they just care about profit.
I would argue that sensible legal environments wouldn't encourage such, while the current climate favors PseudoMonopolys and infinite exploitation of locked in users .
My laptop got a continuous blue screen last monday, and knowing how to disassemble it to recover the hard drive that will have its data moved into a backup pc before putting it back for resetting sure helps. Wish my mom stop going to repair stores as if the common man don't qualify to fix their machines. You own the product, means at some degree there are things one can actually get their hands on with a basic teardown knowledge.
I love operating John Deere Equipment in Farming Simulator 2013. I'm all for Farmers being able to work on their own equipment when they can get to proper tools to fix it.
There is absolutely no good argument against right to repair. Its one of the few issues that both democrats and republicans wholeheartedly agree on, yet because it goes against the interests of the rich institutions are cripplingly lethargic to implement it
You can't repair or modify a lot of things without a certification or proper training because it would be very dangerous or illegal and immoral to do so.
@@alierrtrillo9368 Did you, a mentally sound human being, just state it would be *immoral* to repair an item you bought with your own money? 👓 Am I reading this absolute stupidity right? As for very dangerous or illegal state an example because in my experience one usually buys equipment for a field they are familiar with so give an example?
It’s time you realize that Democrats and Republicans both work for the same team. The Rich. They just keep us quarreling between red and blue so we are easier to control.
That's one of the problems. There AREN'T modern machines available that are open enough. Honestly I'm in favor of just anonymously creating open-source tools that farmers can use to do all the computer-side stuff they need to, and Deere can try to stop me/them/us. Don't give Deere the option of doing a bad job of supporting right-to-repair, just give everyone full access without Deere's input and let them grind their gears legally if they want.
As long as people believe the entire point of companies is to make enormous profits for third parties who contribute nothing to the design, manufacture and use of products, these kinds of issues are going to be endemic.
In that time the yield has gone from 23 to 175 BU/acre. Of course, it's not all due to machinery - but all different technological advances across the board have done that and tractors are an important part
Nobody "bleeds deere green" anymore. The dealership experience has gone downhill along with the ownership experience. Their brand new hay balers come with the cheapest electrical connectors that can be found. Not farm ready at all. Other companies smell the blood in the water and farmers are buying elsewhere. Duetz-Fahr is about to upset JD's tractor market. They are german made, built to work on and maintain, and no right to repair bs. That profit graph will cost JD the game.
Next time you need to buy a piece of JD equipment ask to include a speed of repair clause into the purchase. Fixed within a certain time or the dealer starts paying a penalty. Happens in the airplane business. ( that JD compares themselves to )
The problem is, for a farmer during harvest or sowing any delay is unacceptable. So the farmer will want a clause that has a tech on site within the hour, regardless of day or time. JD however would prefer to not have to pay for that kind of service network, especially given how vast some distances can be in the US, so they're more likely to view a couple of days at the bare minimum as an acceptable delay. They're never going to sign a contract that demands penalties from them within a couple of hours, when it's physically all but impossible to get someone on site within that timeframe. As for the airplane industry, most airlines regardless of whether it's cargo or passengers, will just fly a different plane in to replace the broken down one while it waits for parts to arrive. In which case it might not really be an issue if a plane needs to remain in hangar for a couple of days. Farmers usually don't have a spare tractor or harvester standing around just in case their primary one breaks down. And I bet that JD doesn't want to provide those temporary replacement units at short notice either.
That penalty in a farming scenario would be replacing lost revenue for the farm that results from the delay in repair. That would bring a lot of support for John Deere, and be well worth the short term losses to maintain the monopoly.
@@fermitupoupon1754 Around here we have hog farms that depend on electricity to run the fans. If the fans go down the pigs start to die in about an hour. I've heard stories where during a blizzard hydro goes down. Crews will take parts where they can get them to restore power. Farmer went to the end of the road to ask the crew what was the problem and when he would get power back. Told the transformer had blown up. They where taking transformer off the pole in town and installing it. The people would have to live without. I believe the deal is that hydro pays for any dead animals, no questions asked.
@@fermitupoupon1754 The airlines have extra planes because canceled flights cost a whole lot more than delayed ones: Enough to justify owning an extra plane. Given the tendency of farming away from the folks in this video and more toward large conglomerate corporate beasts, I bet you'd find that said large entities DO have spare tractors because of a similar issue - they can afford to cover one for partial use if down-time is guaranteed. (And it is guaranteed for any given machine with moving parts and software.) Just one more reason that family farms are dying out - if you only prioritize profit margin, eventually, that's all you have ...
@@stephentroyer3831 As an alternative. Take out an insurance policy with the dealer ( backed by JD ) that in the event of a breakdown the dealer will have it back in action in a certain time frame or a "loaner" on site. How many dealers when you take your car in for service give you a loaner for the day. It's an incentive for JD to build reliable equipment
I never thought I'd say this but I'm 100% with the farmers on this one. This is bigger then just the extortion fees JohnDeer and all the rest want to charge which, on its own, is enough to warrant right-to-repair legislation, but the bigger issue is lost production and it's a price we all have to pay.
@@ibeleaf because the general belief is that farmers set the price of the food that they grow and raise and it trickles down to the consumer, so the increased cost in food is the farmers fault. But the gentleman from Nebraska said it best. "We're paying retail but we're selling wholesale". Growing up on a farm i've always known but never had it put so simply. Everything I had to get for my cows/steers and heifers what at a retail store. Parts for the farm/equipment from the hardware store or dealership....but the price per pound would depend on the price of the day at market.
@@garlic6969 No I did not. I said "I never thought I'd say this but I'm 100% with the farmers on this one.", AS IN, I never thought I'd say the phrase "I'm 100% with the farmers".
"Farming in America could not exist without John Deere"... this is the most idiotic statement I've heard. I grew up farming with John Deere but guess what, if they weren't around we would have bought Case or Ford/New Holland or Allis Chalmers or any of the AGCO family of equipment or any of the countless other offerings out there. I'd put a Gleaner combine up against any John Deere any day.
You can't believe most of what Bloomberg reports on because they are in league with the Despotic Democrat Party and they'll slander and put down Americans every chance they get.
Is it though? Diesel engines are more complicated than ever, but work more reliably in extreme cold than ever before. But it does make fixing it after a breakdown virtually impossible without taking it to a shop so the trade-off is real.
@@lilacdoe7945 Oh Yeah. Mechanic and technician for forty years. The wizardry of electronic control systems comes at the price of Owner access and in some cases makes Mechanical repair easier and less complex while increasing the difficulty of electrical and control system repair. That's what this whole fight is about. Companies invest huge sums of money to create the marvelous machines and aren't about to allow even an excellent tech not in their employ to repair them. This fight really started in the computer and tel-com industry.
Very true. I recall my Mom bought her 2004 Mercedez E320. FIrst Mercedez she ever bought after a string of other luxury brands. This was the first computerized chip car she had for a car, on the driver's back left side power windows didn't work well, so the dealer actually offered her a discount on the car. Over time that power window became a whole string of issues. We never had an issue with any of the other cars we owned.
There is the truth: John Deere is doomed if they don't back off on the right to repair. Mark my words. JD must let farmers do what they want, farmers are not their servants. JD is evil.
It's a corporate club where they copy each other. Apple makes bank on forcing people to buy new product and blocking their ability to get local repair by serializing parts and not letting any but the registered serialized part to work. Stealing peoples ability to repair inflating their cost of business.
I've worked in the IT field for 20+ years and currently run my own computer repair business. I'm extremely familiar with the battle on "Right To Repair". Using 3rd party parts and a non-Apple certified technician (or being able to fix it yourself) to fix an Apple product can't even begin to touch the amount of money that could be saved in repairing these John Deere tractors. These are truly amazing machines and not only do you have the mechanical side of repairs, but you need an IT guy on top of that for all of the sophisticated electronics on the things. It has to cost a fortune to just maintain these machines, I can't even begin to imagine if something was to break, especially with the "John Deere tax" that I'm sure is added.
As most of you already know, an OBD II scanner for your automobile can be cheap and useless or expensive and incredibly valuable. I am absolutely ignorant of farm products, but certain that there does exist a port on each of these units for a scanner which will be both expensive, valuable, and ubiquitous on large farms and in independent service shops across the country. If dealers would staff the urgency of planting and harvest seasons just as the farmers do, there's be no complaint of time lost to weekends and salarymen. I enthusiastically support a Right to Repair bill as broad or narrow as can be passed if it includes farm equipment.
Except the right votes for the billionaires which are never going to support farmers, or anyone who isn't a billionaire. The billionaires always win, and they do not care about you.
@@randomgrinn lol yeah you're right. Don't forget the billionaires the left gets used by. Bloomberg, gates, Zuckerberg, Soros, Schwab. They don't care about the working class either
Right to repair needs to become a law around the globe , companies need to realize they wouldn't be where they are today if it weren't for the customers whom they treat like a bunch of idiots
In the corporate world customers and employees are at the bottom of the priority list. Profits and share holders are the elite in their eyes. It is all about making more and more profit each quarter to keep driving up stock prices. Profits generated that way can only go so far before there are major problems.
@@elonever.2.071 I agree. Eventually, the user will find another way and the large corporation will have to do something to stop the loss of funds. One way, not the only way, is for the large corporation to support an authoritarian type of operation where the "workers" (farmers too) are dependent on the corporation for a living. This is one way the former USSR failed it's people but it could happen here. I don't like the idea of authoritarianism but some people seem to like it.
@@elonever.2.071 This would change if consumers would use their buying power. We as a society seems to like to buy and complain instead of going without for awhile to prove a point. Yes, I do understand that sometimes you really cannot so without.
@@DVankeuren The problem here in the States is that students are subliminally taught to be mindless consumers. It is times like Covid and recessions that bring some people out of that stupor. And you are right that people have to use their buying power to make a statement and make changes. It got Gillette to change their attitude about men when they lost $6B pretty quick. Farmers are a resilient bunch and dont forget for generations when they have been duped. I bet that you will see John Deere losing market share over the next decade. Their brand already took a huge hit when they sold cheaply made lawn tractors and mowers through Lowes.
@@DVankeuren Yep. Consumers are a bunch of idiots. That's a hard problem to fix. We need the regulation to work around it. Fixing this with regulation is hard too, though. Companies tend to do the absolute minimum to comply with such things, or comply in ways that contribute little to nothing to the purpose of the regulation, or find new ways to circumvent the regulation. Regulation like this only works when it is uncompromising. It has to be rigorously enforced and hit hard with huge fines in a way that damages the shareholders and not the consumers. We can't pass that kind of law without bipartisan support.
Do your self a favor and cancel your farm plan accounts, owned by Deere, once they charge your account you have almost no recourse on a bill dispute, I canceled mine about 6 years ago and have benefited from doing so.
This space is RIPE for a well-informed, local, open-source startup for either original equipment or bolt-on accessories. It’d be seriously difficult to thread the needle just right and dodge the entrenched interests, but has the potential for yielding an immensely valuable market.
Potential is there, but you’d need to wait and see how all of this plays out. How the strike goes, and how the ongoing litigation goes. Entry into this market requires a ton of capital which is the problem.
Years ago I was a mechanic for John Deer, it was simple engines/ hydraulics etc. A few days ago I was talking to a Friend who happens to be a farmer, he was telling me about the tractor's now days, they/John Deer has got the farmers by the Balls, When it comes to repairing their equipment, it's absolutely nuts
"tractor going down the hwy". Ok. I live in a farming community. My wife has worked in Ag for years. i've personally been called out to diagnose engine trouble on farm equipment as a formally training mechanic to pay for engineering school. What an exaggeration. They let owner/operators repair their own 80,000 lbs tractor-trailers traveling 80 MPH from California to North Carolina and back. You mean to tell me a farmer moving an oversized load of hay 0.75 miles on a public road with a speed limit of 35 MPH (yes it's a state hwy) is " a major threat to the public"?????? Really? How many people are even killed every rear by rogue tractors vs commercial and consumer vehicles? That's the problem? That's like spitting into a rain storm and calling it wet!
@@jannikmeissner Don't be glib, he's trying to avoid tragedy like the 1991 incident where a tractor's maintenance crew forgot to replace some screws during a shift change causing a tractor to fall from the sky killing 14 people on impact. Tractor maintenance is serious stuff.
Perhaps the worst Example of this is last Year's Train Driver Strike in Germany. The Train Drivers at Deutsche Bahn went on Strike for a 1.5% Raise, which isn't even enough to adjust for Inflation, while the Managers gave themselves Raises between 10-20%, meaning that none of them make less than a Million per Month now. All of this happened during record Losses due to the Pandemic, and the Deutsche Bahn even refused a Government Bailout, because that would have preconditioned no Management Raises in 2021. Another Example for Management Greed in the Deutsche Bahn is how they improved "Punctuality". Until 2019, a Passenger Train was considered on Time if it was less than 6 Minutes late, but the Deutsche Bahn kept failing massively on their Goal of having 75% of Trains on Time. So they just increased "on Time" to less than 15 Minutes late and then paid themselves Millions in Bonus for having reached the Punctuality Goals.
It is amazing how similar this problem is to the whole McDonald's Ice Cream machine issue. Companies are no longer creating a business model where they sell their machine for a profit, they are selling their machine at a lower cost, and then their business model is that they create profits by forcing customers to use them to repair their product. The next time you pull into a McDonalds and they tell you the ice cream machine is out of order.. think John Deere green.
Exactly where my thoughts went to as well. Though I think the story behind the machines isn't apparently super common knowledge. It's another tale of right to repair vs big Corp, but mcdonalds has to feed its sister company...
The first sentence in this article is a lie. They basically said that farming in America wouldn't be possible without John Deere, really. There are quite a few alternatives to John Deere out there. They aren't the only manufacturers of agricultural equipment in America.
It's a complete BS article. Much is exaggerated. The NE representative saying a guy will be down over the weekend during planting season. I don't know of a single dealer that is not 24x7 during spring, and harvest. Might take a while to get a tech on site but they will get one out as fast as they can. Yes I want to see consumer rights better defined and protected, but John Deere would not be doing as well as they are if they were screwing their customers over like this video represents.
@@ShainAndrews I know an independent heavy equipmewnt mechanic who could hire 20 mechanics and that wouldn't put much of a dent in his demand. The JD shop (2hrs away by semi) is full of non-talented mechanics and smart farmers will wait months willingly for repairs to avoid going to the dealer.
@@andytaylor1588 I'm not making the case that every dealer is competent. Interestingly enough you make the case that dealers, and by extension the manufactures, are not stopping repairs and service. Something that is really mischaracterized in this effort.
It's interesting that when a farmer here in Victoria, Australia retired he looked back through his records and noticed that the fuel consumption per acre for cropping was identical in the 1970's up to the 2010. Just the size and repair costs of the machinery
@@thebogangamer1 Making money through normal business is not problem but when you get in bed with the government so that they can give you concessions over the competition and create your entire business model into a racketeering model it becomes a problem for the ones providing the money to John Deere
Almost all the comments here are in support of the farmers right to repair and I agree with that in the context of providing the tools necessary to diagnose and repair the tractor. Allowing them to modify the embedded software or the parameters used therein is absurd. I worked as an electronic systems engineer at one of the big three for decades and I can tell you that there is an unbelievable amount of effort spent on safety in software. The companies have to go through extensive code reviews and testing to get permission from governments (e.g. homologation in EU, emissions testing, etc.) before they are allowed to sell them there. Modifying even one parameter could result in the tractor steering failure for example. It's not something that should even be considered. It takes years to train a computer scientist to be competent with the code base and there are millions of automated tests that are done after each and every change. There is no way a layman is going to hack the control software and "repair" something. In fact if someone manages to change anything in the controller, it's going to be a brick afterwards. If you disagree, you are asking for farmers to have the right to drive a tractor which could do anything unpredictable at any time, potentially killing someone else or themselves.
I believe in the Right to Repair. The path all these companies are on is wrong. We need to fight this.
It's complete corruption. Microsoft and Apple both do it. They try to control repairs with special tools and software where there employees can only repair your devices that you bought. There should be a boycott on all these companies.
Imagine what happens to our ability to feed ourselves if there is ever a mass coronal ejection that knocks out the GPS systems. If it occurs at a time coincidental to planting or harvest, it could be catastrophic. And that's just looking at the logistics.
On the socioeconomic side, John Deere (along with other tractor manufacturers) and their lobbyists are effectively turning farmers back into serfs who are beholden to their master's whims.
Productivity is fine, but are those marginal gains worth what the farmers have been giving up in flexibility, reliability, and the freedom to call the shots on their own farm?
@@MrVvulf Smart man
Graaaaaaape.
aRe THeSE fARmErs cOmMunIsTS?!? wHy dO THeY hAte CApITaLiSm?!?!?
I am 100% behind the farmers on this. They should have the option to repair their equipment themselves.
Odd's are they can do it faster and get back to work.... Rather then having there equipment sitting for days waiting to be fixed.
@@jonathanbair523 but think about the poor corporations, how are they going to survive?
Pepa pig
@@BrutusAlbion Corporate welfare, of course!
but cant someone just make a software like rooting and android device ? and cant someone make the physical parts ?
Another factor not mentioned - Deere has eliminated smaller dealers by forcing them to sell out , or simply forcing them out of business with tactics that skirt legality and are ethically bankrupt.
I hope it comes back to haunt them until they go bankrupt
Not just Deere, and not just ag. They got the idea from the automotive industry
@@crinkly.love-stick Who use the government to enforce their lunacy. You are all corporate slaves.
Agree with all of this. The argument of 'this tech is so beyond you mortals' scares the normal person that doesn't have experience with the equipment. Most folks just want to be able to do a self re-set, after changing out a filter/ware part. They aren't asking to rig the thing up to a RC controller to drive the thing from home.
It's only illegal if someone calls them out on it >.
@@crinkly.love-stick Russia is more than ready to sell you agricultural equipment which are on the same technological level to what exists in the west. All of them were designed to be DIY repairable and restorable IN THE FIELD with simple hand tools. Anything electronics and electricals has quadruple redundancies and can easily be accessed and repaired with simple household hand tools. And Russia can set up shop containing all of the components of all farm equipment and it will be again just like the the 1970s and 1960s and 1950s and 1940s and 1930s when if something needs fixing you can just use your hand tools that you have, check what is wrong, then go to the nearest mechanic hardware shop and buy the component replacement spare parts and go back to your place and fix it up within a very short time. If you want to, Russia will even set up a components' refurbishing shop to dismantle all components and figure out on how to restore their components back to pristine condition just like brand new. That is, if this tension between our two countries is allowed to thaw out first.
It's John Deere that wouldn't exist without farmers, not the other way around.
they are acting like there aren't hundreds of other companies vying for there market shows how bad brand loyalty can be
@@highlandrab19 - That is also true. But JD provides what the customer needs, then they work out a strategy. A farmer, in other words, the customer will not continue to invest every year.
What is often forgotten is that selling is a kind of psychology in which one has to bind the customer. And how they have done that has also been successful in recent years.
I like this saying, but it's not true. Excavation equipment and power units are a fair part of them as well
LOTS of Red, Yellow and Blue ones around here too. Farmers have options if pushed. Maybe not so much the Red ones.😁
@@highlandrab19 trouble is, all the large ag sector is doing the same thing. for some reason Deere takes the majority of the heat. Try working on a Fednt or Claas without dealer support.
"Safety" is the hypothetical "buzz word" used by any company trying to keep technology proprietary. We all know, it's nothing more than a money grab. I'm rooting for the farmers!!
Well you know, a tractor is the same thing as an airplane, so you can't mess with the safety, right? LOL.
yeah, they talk about airplane safety, but they're forgetting that the 737-Max's MCAS and the hundreds of deaths it caused was a fault of Boeing's total Lack of Transparency, and likewise John Deere should be more transparent
I just saw a tractor fly over my house and I know I was greatly reassured to know it was a Deere.
ya, but didn't you feel safer when all those lithium batteries were catching fire, knowing that they were genuine, OEM flames? LOL
"rooting" for the farmers... I see what you did there !
imagine spending 100 grand on a piece of equipment and not being allowed to repair it without consequences. These companies need to be humbled.
More like $500,000.
*( $100,000 Would-Be a · "SMALL" · Piece of Equipment ! ) 🚜 €¥£ ^
More like a million, MILLIONS.
You're not going to buy the kind of equipment they use there for that little.
China will humble them, they will move their manufacturing to China
Kudos to Louis Rossman for helping bringing this issue to the forefront. Not just for cellphones, but across the board
That serious goofball is what got me interested in all this controversy. Well, him and me enjoying the ability to repair my own items. Haha
Yea he’s done a great job fighting apple and bringing this to the attention of consumers. Great comment!
Nice pun
Big props to him honestly
no. you will own nothing and be happy. great reset.
I’m with the farmers when it comes to being able to repair their own equipment.
Sure, what they can repair but these machines are state of the art. Farmers should have these under warranty & JD should send out techs to solve any needed repairs.
@@hiitsrudd8567 yea,but these farmers should be able to buy the software and be able to repair the machines they own. The manufacturers charge too much to fix a simple problem that can be diagnosed with a computer and the right part. Just like cars,the dealers make most of their profits in the service department,but in cars you can buy a code reader for a reasonable price and fix it yourself.
The John Deere spokesman making a claim that a tractor (going down the road at 10mph) has the same safety concerns as an airplane (going 600mph at 30,000 feet) was hilarious. I'll bet it was hard for him to keep a straight face.
Sounds like he is on his way to a job in the Biden criminal clown administration.
Every major corporation’s middle to upper management are filled with scumbag liars like that guy. Honesty and integrity is not in them….. Been with a major manufacturer for 25 years and it’s sad to see what corporate greed has done to once great companies. I hope the tide is turning and lower level employees start standing up to them as well as consumers. There isn’t a CEO on the planet that’s worth the kind of money they are making while factory workers struggle in futility to even keep up with inflation…..
"safety concerns" i think the end game strategy for john deere is that they buy all the farms themselves and integrate all farming.
Not to mention one is carrying the general public 24/7
@@grizzlygrizzle Nah definitely a Trump guy, how much has he embezzled over his presidency? Why didn't trump put Deere in check? I thought he was going to drain the swamp?
Massive respect to the farmers out there. Clarkson's farm taught me a lot. A lot of work goes into farming and razor sharp margins. Support Right to repair.
If your family already owns a farm you can scrape out a living. If you want to buy one it's likely you won't ever make enough money to even just outpace interest let alone survive.
Don't let farms die. They won't return.
Or go hungry.
Nico, I agree with you! People see all the crops in the field and have no clue about the stress, and work it takes to get it out of the field.
@@user-hv6wb5gk8p yep one of the reasons im not a farmer as my grandpa's discouraged me from thinking about it. the only way i would now days is to pay off yearly tax's aka a tax break ect. and not a full time job
@@richardprice5978 I have thought about buying a farm and farming for the last couple of years. I was born to the land and miss it. I will continue to work full time in tech while communing with the land.
Not having 'A Right to Repair' is simply Un-American, period. And JD using/selling farmer's harvest info is simply CRIMINAL.
considering the use to influence the Derivatives/ Commodities Markets, YUP.
lol "un-american" , the entire history of your horrible country is trashing workers rights.
@@misanthropyunhinged very true. Look at the opposition to Linux by Microsoft and Bill Gates' stooges and all the law suites brought to scuttle innovation in computer tech. The world would still be using windows vista if it were to "Americans".
@@misanthropyunhinged That's only half of it. Having to deal with all the garbage people from places like whatever 3rd world dump you live in doesn't help either. Stay in your own country. There's no shame in making shoes for your family out of old tires.
Here in the UK right to repair is coming in. Unfortunately it will not stop car manufacturers sourcing inappropriate spares. It is often the case that something like a touch screen goes wrong but all the manufacturer will offer is a replacement for the whole head unit at around 50% of the market value of the car or a very expensive repair by the head unit supplier. Then there are very simple things like windscreen washer pumps. This should be a £10 item but on my Nissan Leaf it was £50 sup;lied only by the manufacturer. Then the labour cost for fitting it was £100. Ridiculous. It appears that the car was not designed to be serviced by its owner.
What John Deere is doing is despicable. Once machinery is out of warranty they have NO right to refuse tech support and refuse to sell parts. Insisting it must be by THEIR service amounts to a protection racket. Organized Crime.
I think the farmers know what they are doing.. as a matter of fact without them we are done as a food nation.
Farmers are the backbone of America most likely most Farmers can do any repair on their equipment and just about everything else!!!!
Robocop mentality. ED-209 Guaranteed Government sales with spare parts for 25 years. Who cared if it worked or not...
I am 100% on the side of the farmers on this one. Right to repair is a big deal, & not just for farmers. I work in the autiomotive industry, & let me just say that if we let John Deere get away with this tomfoolery, very soon the automotive market will follow suit. Do you want the right to change your own engine oil? Or modify your own suspension?
Look at Tesla, they are the John Deere of vehicle manufacturers. I have had many customers opt to NOT buy a Tesla because of the tesla exclusive "repair facilities" that are few & far between, with wait times of 3+ months for a simple repair. Dealers are already getting backed up due to parts shortages, to take away the mom & pop's shop's right to repair, we are going to be left with no choice but to take it back to the dealer & be at their mercy for how long the repair will take as well as the cost to repair.
We need to nip this in the bud before companies see right to repair a thing of the past. It may affect primarily farmers for the time being, but that will change very soon if we dont speak up on their behalf.
automotive industry is already trying to do it. i have an 09 toyota tundra which i have maintained / fixed everything by myself on. there's only one thing i can't do in my home garage, change the transmission fluid, which should be a similar process to engine oil. but nope no way to do it normally, you need a special machine. Guess what part on my truck is now showing issues? (edit: i did take it in for a tranny fluid swap about 4 years ago)
Yup! We pay enough for software to fix your new vehicles each year and it's getting harder to fix newer vehicles each year. I think vehicle dealers would like to MAKE you take your vehicle to them for service.
The key switch broke on my Honda Accord and it would've cost under $100 to fix it a few year's ago, now I have to pay $1400 for a couple keys and the dealer to program my old 15 year old car...if my husband hadn't just put a new transmission in it, the car would've been sent to the junk yard. If you care about the environment, don't keep wanting more and more complex vehicles as they end up in the junk yard sooner than they used to.
The electronics & computing industry is another one that will benefit heavily from Right to Repair legislation. Cell phone manufacturers for instance have deliberately made it absurdly difficult for independent local repair shops to get the replacement parts they need to fix your phone. If you get an iPhone repaired by Apple, they'll charge hundreds of dollars for a simple screen replacement. While meanwhile when I had an iPhone 7, I got the screen replaced by a locally owned repair business for only $80 and it worked perfectly.
Right to Repair is important for all industries in my opinion. Manufacturers want to have a monopoly on repairing their products so that they can charge whatever they want. The fact that Right to Repair is controversial whatsoever is insane to me. Right to Repair has been an expectation in the automotive industry for years now. It doesn't mean that you HAVE to repair your stuff yourself, it just means that you have the RIGHT to do so if you want to.
Every repair procedure for every piece of equipment or vehicle should be on youtube. Every part should be available for purchase on Amazon.
If we don't speak on their behalf...... I've been out of North America for 10 years but I don't understand why I'm seeing Western people, for whom speaking out is a point of identity, something we rub into the faces of our Asian comrades - afraid to speak out. Why are Western people reluctant to speak out lately?
Knowing not much about this, John Deere lost me the moment they equated the safety of a tractor going down a dirt road to a 777 flying at 40,000 ft with 200+ people flying over the pacific ocean.
even if it is on a paved road it's out in the country where everyone driving on that road is very well aware that it's farmland and to be cautious
His analogiy is totally wrong because dont airlines own the equipement and maintain their own planes. i dont think have to go back to boeing everytime they need something repaired
@@Hotspur37 yes the have to go back to boeing.because the onley one to repair the plaine are ingeniers from boeing.and you onley may use boeing certifid tools and replacement parts .if you lost a scruw to hond the toilet handel you have to order one at boeing because if you use an other one you will bring the plaine and passagers in danger .
Exactly what I thought, with one exception, a home repair on a 777 could get it hijacked by way of computer. So really it's more like 1000+ people. But same idea, these two analogies are not the same, or don't equate.
@@chikes4862 Airlines repair their own stuff all the time, you're simply wrong. Parts are not the same thing as repair.
We just bought a new tractor ( $120K) and we didn't even look at the John deer option because they are reprehensable as a company, the JD guy at the end saying they are trying to stop people modifying the machines made my blood boil, we HAVE to modify machinery because there are so many different use cases that the manufacturers don't think of and the work needs to be done!.
In my country, I could call a guy to modify my tractor, e.g. modify the sofware so that I won't need A-Blue anymore. But then it wouldn't be street-legal anymore. So I don't do it. But having that law would solve the problem, the CTO stated in the end of this video; if he was honest.
Same thing for me. I didn't even look at used JD. Totally avoid these non repairabe machines owned by corporations. I need and want my OWN tractor
Out of curiosity, wat brand is that which gave you the equipment and diagnostics software plus source codes along with the tractor you bought? People are targetting deere, but virtually no other group does that either.
@@fermewilmotsagriculturebio3434 The computer side is only one aspect, JD is not the ONLY company doing it they just seam to be the leaders in going in that direction in their industry. Just like Apple seams to be leading it in phones/computers, but the other companies soon follow. Small business’s are important to the economy for filling in niches (among other things of course) and need to be protected.
Honestly, I think it would be best if a group of farmers banded together and made their own company which to make tractors which are easily modifyable and easily repairable. Think of it this way: A new tractor is around $100, possibly double if you include accessories. A few dozen farmers (or less) could likely get enough funding to make their own agricultural-vehicle company, to make their own tractors from scratch, so that in 5-10 years they won't need to worry about the non-repairability and the insider-trading (since all those tractors get data which is then sent to the company whose branding they hold, and so they know how much product is being made at any moment in time, everywhere where their company's agricultural vehicles are used).
Not only that, but the major companies in this field likely have part of their shares held by the same company, which gives said company access to that data, which allows that company or it's subsidiaries or partners (likely owned by the same people) to make use of the insider data they have access to. This alone could be used by the farmers to make those major companies lose a lot of revenue, and either be forced to change their ways, or get bought by others, possibly bought by the very same farmers who are opposing them, to make those products repairable again.
*Unless John Deere fully commits to truly supporting "right to repair"- I'll never buy JD again.*
I am surprised to see a lack of comments about the data analytics side of the software that was mentioned in this video! Consider what John Deere generates for themselves by way of compiling the harvesting information from the thousands of farmers who use their equipment. If they have all of that information on every field in the US that uses their technology, then they can prognosticate all futures-related markets and game the system! Where is their accountability for what they do with it? Can we honestly believe that there is no market for such information or that they are too honest a company to sell it off or use it to make their own investment decisions? That is an open door to insider trading! This should be thoroughly investigated, documented, and made public record or there is no way it should be legal. We are all being affected by this issue--whether we recognize it or not, we all have skin in the game on what is taking place.
Like insider trading!
@@kylehaake7859 the farmers pay for the gps software, John Deere then collects the information, John Deere then sells the info. Imagine going to work and making something using your bosses money, and your boss paying you to make it, then getting paid every time that product sells.
Farmers’ live on the razors edge of profitability and take on debt to maintain competition in a field dominated by agribusiness’ manufacturers and GMO seed companies. Farmers think they can give up data without giving up their rights to the land, which consolidated agribusiness and banks will easily confiscate farmers land by foreclosures. Due to mechanization at the current stage the few remaining farmers hardly represent a meaningful blip on the political landscape.
This is so easy to use to manipulate the price farmers are paid for their products. Don't think for one second that this is not being done on some level by the individuals with this knowledge. Corporate or private. Greed ensures this.
AGREED! One would think a farmer's yield information is 'proprietary' to that farmer instead of being considered as part of the machine's data for performance purposes. It would be interesting to know if JD Capital Corp. does open market trading.
Hospitals are facing similar problems with repairing medical equipment. Health care prices are skyrocketing!
*United we stand:*
Farmers, doctors, nurses, engineers, technicians and everyone else.
We're all in this together for the right to repair!
Yes
Eh, I have a hard time blaming health care prices on the equipment itself. other countries use the same gear and do not see the same problems. and tbh, medical equipment is really one of those cases where you really do not want 3rd parties making modifications or repairs, they go through a pretty rigorous certification process and tinkering with them invaliates that.
@@neeneko i have a buddy who works for a surgical tool company, he makes around 75k a year, gets flown all around the US, multiple times a week (all expenses paid) and he literally scrubs in and stands on hand in case the tools experience any problems... he's like an "on demand maintenence technician/manual".... he said he *rarely* has to intervene.
You dont think thats a bit of a racket? 🤪
Don't forget fast food and their machines.
There is equipment the military can't even fix because of the eroding right to repair. This needs to stop now.
It's a complicated issue, but I'm with the farmers on this one. If JD hadn't gouged the farmers with the repair costs, it probably would have never been a big deal. However, when you have to pay a several thousand dollar service call just so a technician can determine which sensor to order, it gets folks hot under the collar. Lots of time and money wasted and it's all the farmer's time and money.
This unfortunately only scratches the surface about how deep John Deer is willing to go. There are now subscription fees on some of the software being used in these vehicles, to the point where you can't start a piece of equipment that you have bought an paid for.
And it All goes into the CEO's friggen deep pockets while YOU have to sell your product at wholesale prices set by his bankers! Can you see where this is going??
@@nadmaster101 That's fine then stop buying their software if you are only renting it. Buy only from companies that sell their software not rent it out. However you can only rent out software if it gets taken away from you at the end of the rental agreement. Otherwise it's not called renting, it's called selling.
@@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket Farming is a time based commodity. You only have a narrow window for planting and then harvesting a crop. Usually only days at best. A big farmer can lose millions from Friday to Monday due to the lazy stealership.
It's not complicated at all when you look at the way the laws were intended. It doesn't matter how much they charge the farmers for It's illegal for them to prohibit farmers from modifying or repairing something they already own by preventing other companies from fixing the equipment. For the CEO of JD to compare safety of aircraft that have hundreds of lives on board to a tractor is so laughable and absurd. By the way the aircraft owned by the airlines are all repaired by the airlines themselves that employ their own mechanics.
What is incredible about Right to Repair is that you have people from all walks of life joining in, from farmers to electronics consumers. Many of these people may never agree on "trending" topics the politicians, news or social media influencers would love to talk about, but they come together to face the issue nonetheless. This is a great example of people finding allies for problems they truly care about, rather than caring about problems based on which camp they are in.
If a product (car, tractor, phone...) is purchased by a person or business, then they have the right to repair what they own. It should be that simple, otherwise it's not ownership. John Deere should only lease equipment if they intend to prevent 3rd party repair. That would stop planned obsolescence.
Aviation is a highly-regulated industry for safety, and comparing farm equipment to aircraft is like a 3 year old declaring he's a "big boy", but not cute.
@@joel8340. i agree with your sentiment, but lots of older tractors are in use. The way i see the issue is that there will be no 50 yr tractors coming out of modern john deere. They aren't cost effective to keep running with only dealer repairs, especially not for second owners.
@@joel8340. sorry but there is a lot of tractors out there 50 yrs old and still working just fine,,,, will a 2022 tractor be working in 30 yrs ? , I doubt it !! Sounds like a big problem on the horizon 🤔
@@joel8340. actually due to this very issue, old tractors are going up in value, because while the new technology might be nice when it works, between emissions and inability to repair the newer stuff, a lot of guys are snapping up the older stuff and basically restarting production on parts.
"Tractor on a highway"??? 🤣🤣🤣
@@ke6gwf my grandpa has shed with like 20 small tractors from 50s to 70s all pretty basic smaller ones size of car… not sure why he keeps buying more they don’t seem worth more than 5k
The most frustrating part of all this to me has to be the availability of their monopolized repair service. John Deere caters to an industry that is almost entirely centered on TIMING. Calendars were invented for hunting, gathering, and farming. Farmers lives revolve around brief windows of opportunity. Only so much time to plant, tend and harvest. If a vital piece of machinery breaks down it is often devastating. John Deere makes these complex systems, lock them behind proprietary barriers saying only certain people are able to work on them and the limit the number of and time they're available to regular business hours? Farmers and their equipment aren't 9 to 5, they're 24/7. So if you're gonna try to say that this is too complicated, technical, dangerous, or valuable for Farmer Fred to repair himself, you better have a service that can keep it working when he needs it most. It is unacceptable for a farmer to have to wait DAYS for repairs on a piece of equipment he only has days to use.
They should offer access to materials and training for people willing and able to repair themselves.
The last time this came up, John Deere Promised Farmers It Would Make Tractors Easy for farmers to Repair, get tools and parts.
It Lied.
I know some ppl have hacked them to do repairs themselves , i know ppl who said just to take it to the shop would cost him 1200$
McDonalds soft-serve machines: Another corporation that wants to control repairs. Money, money...money.
As more of the machines get old they will break down more often. How many mechanics will each John Deere dealer have as the number of repairs for these machines increase??? Will a John Deere Mechanic work on Sunday?? As you said time is extremely valuable to farmers. Most farmers have their own reliable mechanics they can call on during emergencies.
@@wkb8326 JD is a finance company now. The only reason they build machinery is so they have something to finance. They are not interested in repairs at all. Ultimately they want a steady, neverending stream of payments in exchange for providing equipment. They are more interested in replacing than repairing.
John Deere WAS a great company. I have a 1955 John Deere model 70 gas tractor that turns heads. I even work with it sometimes. A beautiful machine. But my neighbour's modern Deere tractor is a nightmare, requiring transport hundreds of miles to a dealership for even the simplest of repairs. The company's assault on farmers and their right to repair will cost them dearly in the end. Sorry, no pun intended.
most companies where great back in the day! SHAREHOLDERS fixed that! Gatta have that huge profit every year so people can let there money do the work! very sad system that goes against the customer!
This is why John Deere equipment from the the early 2000's and earlier are bringing such high prices at action. They are well built and you can fix them yourself.
Guess it will cost them Deerely.
@@boxoffisa guess you just felt the need too be a comedian? don't quit your day job because you don't know your audience AT ALL!
we have 2 john deere lawn tractors..one is a 200 form the 1970s and other is a 160 from the 1980s..BOTH are easy to fix with simple tools..the sad part? ANY part from a john deere service shop for BOTH costs hundreds if its even available anymore..even for a small part like a carburetor jet..so alot of the parts on both we bought used on ebay..
I work for a company that builds mining trucks and equipment, We have worked hard to keep the equipment simple and easy to repair. We use old tried and true engines and wire things up in a way that is easy to understand. The miners love our equipment because it is easy to fix.
The fact that it's still being debated is a demonstration of how broken the system is. Patent and copyright laws already protect intellectual property; it is not necessary to ban people from repairing their own equipment in order to prevent them from seeing how it works, because it's already illegal for them to rip-off whatever proprietary technology they find inside.
That is true and I think this is one of the basics of the lawsuit. Should we be okay with most anything built with technology (intellectual property), come with a service contract.
Its just anarcho-capitalism .....
@@theMPrints Military-industrial complex, as Ike warned, totally unrestrained. Well done, USA.
The way I see it the farmers have the right to repair just not the tools to do it. Who can stop you from breaking in their software if you're smart enough to do that?
John Deer : The $ you give us for our products is OURS, and OURS forever, but those products you paid us that money for ...well we've decided you're kind of renting them
About 20 years ago I purchased a JD front loader, one day it would not start so I called JD to see about getting a mechanic to fix it, they told me the bill would be $1000 the second he stepped out of the truck, plus hourly rate, plus parts. I fixed it myself, it was a $50 part, have kept it running myself ever since. FJD
Yea, FJD! Greedy phucs
So why didn't you just fix it yourself in the first place? It's this way weather it's John Deere, Caterpillar, Case etc.Those tech's are getting $40 an hour or more, it isn't gonna be cheap no matter what brand you run!!!
@@nicholasbrown7068 - Could be it might void the warranty, I don’t know.
@@nicholasbrown7068 Because then you void the warranty... Duh.
@@nicholasbrown7068 It was my first piece of heavy equipment, and first diesel. I now own multiple machines and fix them myself. I would have gladly paid $40 an hour, it was the $1000 charge for driving 15 miles in a service truck that I balked at. FJD!
Comparing the safety risks (14:10) of a farm tractor to a jet airliner is patently absurd. It was at that point that I was fully convinced of the purely mercenary purpose of John Deere's position on the right-to-repair issue.
Exactly. Who could take that claim seriously? He couldn’t even look at the camera straight.
That's what I came here to say. Ridiculous comparison that shows what a joke their position is.
That’s every company, if they don’t make as much money as they can, they lose control over their monopoly.
but he is right...where i live, i see hacked Deere tractors falling from the sky every day!!!
@@dimosk7389 I stand corrected. It now seems obvious that only highly trained John Deere technicians can keep their tractors aloft.
Smart thing for farmers to do would be to dump John Deere and to turn to Caterpillar since they manufacture more reliable equipment that is not locked. John Deere is a clear indication why we must breakup large corporations and limit corporate monopoly.
But that would entail farmers being accountable to the contract they sign, meaning it’s off limits.
Kubota are gaining sales in UK at the expense of JD ,tractors are less complex and more reliable for the smaller farmers
@@Baddog-ib5mf yes kubota diesels are pretty great
Caterpillar makes combines? I don't think so.
@@dannysdailys If enough farmers requested them to make it they surly would.
Just another company that forgets how they got there. Short sighted, greed. Disgusting offensive behavior. There I held back some.
Welcome back to capitalism
@@Cheesecake99YearsAgo exactly - why do people think capitalists would behave otherwise? this guy is just following the rules.
@@Cheesecake99YearsAgo capitalism is like democracy it’s what you make of it. Either of them can be the best or worst systems. History has shown us what foolishness democracy can bring. And the present shows us the foolishness of capitalism now. Either way the stats shows it’s still better than other systems.
You reckon the average farmer or tractor driver can fix complicated electrical and gps issues ? I’m not defending it. But then there is reality
@@Cheesecake99YearsAgo what is your suggestion then? More government control?
Don’t buy John deer hit them in the pockets
I work a small farm and a much larger heavy equipment repair shop. After hearing about farmers battles with right to repair on John Deere machines I boycotted them. I do not work on or buy ANYTHING from John Deere. I know I’m a drop in a sea of money to them but I cannot support a company like them. Thank you for the video!
Thank you. I always saw JD as coexisting with the farmers. Now I see different. They are not only selling out the farmers, but the rest of us too. Their next move may be to start buying farm land, and hire the farmer to work the land. Soon after we will start seeing Theodore Kaczynski tee shirts for sale lol
I am not a farmer, but live and work in large-scale farm country. The only competitor to JD here is Case. Are they doing the same thing concerning repairs?
@@fouresterofthetrees287 Yes. Unequivocally. The only reason you don't hear about it is being a bit smaller in size and not quite as draconian in their gouging... for now...
You should consider contacting Louiss Rossman & do an interview sometime. He's willing to talk to anyone about this issue.
Enough drops make a sea
Comparing a tractor to a passenger jet is laughable! Absolutely nothing close to relating to each other in a safety aspect. The technologies may be comparable these days (which, farm equipment has no business being so advanced), but there is no way a malfunctioning tractor is going to be as dangerous as a malfunctioning jet, or any other aircraft.
I agree. Interestingly enough the FAA allows owners/operators to do a substantial amount of maintenance themselves prior to needing an FAA certified mechanic. Probably to an extent that would give that Jahmy Hindman an aneurysm if he knew about it. Even tasks that require government certified mechanics (A&P/IA) are not hard to accomplish as such specialists can be found at most airports and aren't employees of the aircraft manufacturers. Smh.
I noticed that. That was a vile excuse.
Woooosh point missed completely
yep. Soon as I heard airplanes the BS alarm went off.
did you know: *the natural bioelectricity produced by a leaf on an oak tree is directly comparable to [insert most powerful capacitor discharge known here]*
"You wouldn't want anyone repairing a airplane" is he aware that if i buy a plane I have the right to repair it and modify anything in it?
John Deere comparing their 10mph equipment to 500 mph commercial aircraft is comical.
Total BS of course.
They go 45 now 🚀
I thought I was the only person that caught that 🤣
It's because they force limp mode if any of the sensors goes off
Yea. haha.
The right to repair is very important, no matter what industry we're talking about 😔
Then don’t sign or accept contracts that preclude self repair.
Or are you that much against accountability in contract law?
@@bobroberts2581 Contracts are made to be broken.
Apple is going to do the same thing with all apple phones. No 3rd party repairs
@@bobroberts2581 No dum3 dum3, we're against bad laws.
@@bobroberts2581 I'm not even going to bother arguing this; what you're saying is such moot point and you know it is.
I whole heartedly agree that if you buy a John Deere or a Tesla it is yours to repair or modify. These big companies are afraid they will lose sales and repair business. I think they are wrong. These farmers have proven their loyalty and deserve that to be honored.
Looooooooooooooose sales? It's just "lose", genius, because loose and lose are different words with different meanings.
@@slappy8941 It’s you that’s the real genius. Even with your head where the sun doesn’t shine you could still understand what I really meant.
Given how much energy is in that battery on a Tesla, messing with that battery is a **BAD** idea….
@@GORT70 said no one ever about a combustion engine that you can go to the local autozone and buy a repair manual.
Stand with the farmers!
Support right to repair!
All manufacturers, whether Deere, Apple, or any other, need to be forced to allow purchasers to repair what they puurchase.
In their eyes even though you bought their item you do not own said item.. that’s their loophole
buy CAT or Case you can work on it your self or just buy something old and fix it up.
@@youngguns1319 CAT has been making special changes to various bolt heads, and such to make it impossible to repair unless you have their specialized wrenches too.
How about you don't buy their products?
The billionaires always win.
Repairing your own equipment isn't about a "birthright", it's about staying in business. Labor costs can add up to thousands of dollars, not to mention the down time of having to wait for busy dealers to get to your equipment. One day of delay can mean thousands of dollars lost if a storm should come up and your crop is destroyed while you wait for your equipment to be fixed.
I was also speculating as to whether it is feasible for someone within the JD system to deliberately send an "error code" at a critical point to bring about exactly this scenario. This to manipulate the futures market and make a killing. This could be about way more than just "repair earnings."
Add into that, if no traveling techs then the farmers have to get the tractors to the dealers. If you have a large tractor that can also cost thousands.
i think the end game strategy for john deere is that they buy all the farms themselves and integrate all farming.
@@Redmanticore You can buy the farm the land the equipment but farmers are independent individual who do their own stuff! It's not as simple as it sounds to farm.
If the tractors are feeding the yield info to John Deere, and JD is selling that info, that's unacceptable.
Pretty sure the C-Suite called it an "alternate revenue stream".
Wouldn’t that essentially make it a form of a insider trading?
I'm sure they've buried that in the license agreement. So you've already accepted it.
@@DomGaccioli if you employ people to go spy on farms (without trespassing) and then collect that information and then use it, is it insider trading then?
No. There as always people who have information about the market than others. Look at the people launching satellites to monitor the level of oil in storage tanks.
@@DomGaccioli
He who can't afford a legal & analytics team can't navigate around 'insider trading'.
*Most trading laws are just traps that keep the small fry small.*
John Deer “Tractors are like airplanes. You don’t want anyone able to work on them, a tractor on a highway is a safety concern like an airplane over a city”. 😂
1. I’ve never seen a tractor on a highway.
2. Tractor repairs have never been regulated… because it’s not a public safety concern.
3. Airplane repairs have always been Government regulated… because they carry hundreds of people over our public cities making them an actual public safety concern.
4. Just admit you’re being a greedy corporation trying to protect the new revenue stream of tech repair restrictions.
Time and time again we’re seeing companies posting record profits while everyone below them is struggling
Any stockholder owned company is like this. They go for maximum profits and if they ruin the company in the process they just cash out.
Or they are moving production to other countries where labor is cheaper.
John Deere is playing a dangerous game. Once they lose the respect of the farmers and they stop buying their equipment, JD will be in trouble.
Kubota and Ford tend to use universal parts, yes?
@@carlh-thehermitwithwi-fi679 Ahhh the people that have no idea about farming. Real farming... the big boy stuff. Kubota, the best they have is a 200ish hp tractor. That is it. They don't have tillage, planting, harvesting. Their best tractor couldn't even pull my planter, not even kidding. Ford? There is no Ford. New Holland, Case IH, Massey Ferguson (AGCO). Those are the main players in NA. They all operate the same way. And dispute what some of this propaganda says. Machines are being repaired by farmers and independent shops.
@@ShainAndrews went to the JD museum in Moline,Ill. They are the only manufacturer still in business under the same name. I grew up around farming and can’t even remember all the brands around back in the 60s.
New Holland and John Deere And another are all the same tractor at times with different paint.
@@captiannemo1587 DING! I am gald you saw that!
Right to Repair, may be bad for John Deere or Apple, but it will open the flood gates for Americans to get back to fixing things instead of trashing machinery, etc. and stressing land- fills.
Ah yes. “We can’t possibly give you a cost of living wage, we need to give ourselves a 10% raise because my yacht doesn’t pay for itself” 🤦♂️🤦♂️
Love the hypocrisy of the spokesman saying they were super proud of the final deal struck with the union.
Not only should farmers be able to fix there own equipment the manufacturer should make it easy for the farmer to repair there own equipment.
Just like Apple phones, I am in on the right to repair bill!
Farmers have been repairing their own equipment since the beginning of farming equipment. Taking that ability away is doing nothing but hurting everyone for greed
Just went through this with a hydrostat transmission on a John Deere 4052 loader. The forward pedal broke and we were able to replace it. However the pedals are fly-by-wire and have to be recalibrated whenever they are disturbed. The dealer had to send a service person out to hook up to their laptop. This isn't just farmers, but anyone that has a computerized tractor.
Absolutely hate electronics
Modern cars have similar problems. There are more and more components that must be programmed after replacement
It's been going on for several years in my part of rural VA. Farms that "bled green" for generations now buy New Holland, Mahindra, Massey Ferguson, etc. Even non farm specific JD equipment is being replaced with other brands. Kubota and Mitsubishi SxS are replacing Gators. Older JD equipment brings higher prices at auction than newer stuff because you can work on the older machines yourself
I sometimes think that we go backwards, and I have personal experience of this with Caterpillar engines, the older engines ran forever with simple and minimal maintenance. Unfortunately although the newer engines when working are more efficient, when they go wrong it's a nightmare. We took the strange step of buying and reconditioning older engines and fitting them in place of the newer ones, which we sold off. Lo and behold repair costs plummeted, productivity increased and everyone was happy, technology is not always the way forward.
Aside from planned obsolescence, I think that new and improved technologies will almost inevitably come with reduced durability due to wanting to use less material and lighter (and weaker) parts and increased hassle when trying to diagnose and fix due to increased complexity.
@@TROll-oe9ng The biggest reason new stuff isn't reliable is the EPA forcing engines to meet insane emissions requirements.
@@Elemblue2 You are all correct in what you say in the above replies. We did an analysis of breakdowns and 55% were due to faulty sensors shutting engines down. The old cats had minimal electronics, so for us it was back to the older designs, luckily we didn't have to worry about emissions then.
Variations in circumventing technology exist worldwide today, just as always for necessity.
ie: A late model chassis of car totally disabled by $$$$ tech failure, having engine and drive train removed for junk salvage, as the still functional chassis itself promptly harnessed to a horse or mule, for a comfy ride for 3rd world masses (with creativity) ;}
Same as plentiful/cheap small diesel engines/transmissions/drive trains in 3rd world remote enclaves (formerly Communist), are installed (by creative entrepreneurs) in place of failed high tech power devices.. creating Tesla chassis (sans battery modules) diesels?
@@blogengeezer4507 Man always finds a way
"Farming could not exist without John Deere" welp, 5 seconds into the video and we're already 0 for 1. Also, john deere squeezes farmers while the same farmers pledge their devotion as "john deere families" and insisting john deere would never do what john deere is doing, like a major stockholm syndrome, it's ridiculous and sad
"Interesting observation, Gunny" (movie quote: Heartbreak Ridge)
but in the video its said that other companies such as Case is doing the same. so its not about JD, its the system itself
@@karl6458 I would think that goes without saying…but I’m not talking about John deere. I’m talking about John deere farmers. They don’t say “well everyone does it so I can understand that my beloved John Deere does it too to be competitive”. No. They think their beloved join deere would never do it.
have to wonder if it ever occured to the CEO of John Deere that JD couldn't exist without farmers. Not so much now but a few years ago, equipment could be ordered from places like Japan and China. Kubota makes great equipment.
@@MrDogfish83 Judging by the reactions noted in this video, that appears to be changing.
John Deere seems a lot more concerned with it's profits, stock price, and CEO salary than it does on what's best for the farmers and it's customers
all high paying CEO's are that way.. look at GE and boeing.. CEO's are going to destroy this country.
@@jmac1099 or look at Boeing...
or the workers.
Sounds every big corporation! Welcome to the 2020’s
30 million a year for 1 employee is crazy , the union should ask for far more money .
It's getting to be the same way in Deere's construction equipment. Had a bulldozer that threw a code that resulted in the computer reducing the throttle to half speed. Code turned out to be for a windshield wiper motor.
John Deere rightly point out that not permitting farmers to work on their tractors is a safety issue just like airliners. We've all seen the serious loss of life which arises when a tractor carrying 600 people crashes from 30,000 feet.
If your tractors aren't flying, you ain't farming right!
haha.. yeah i said the same thing when i heard that statement.
@@firefalcon100 Soviet Tractor.... In Soviet Russia Tractor doesn't plow field it plows you.
@@vHindenburg Da
@@vHindenburg Russia is using John Deer tractors too :)
It gets me that none of these companies ever think about the longterm for this. Like it's actual insanity even from a purely pragmatic perspective. Had John Deere kept their (admittedly 100% unethical) practice of forcing small competitors out of business, but also make their tractors easy to repair and reasonable to buy, they could just sit at the top of the mountain with their monopoly and rake in cash forever, and exactly nobody would care because nobody would be inconvenienced. Their greed is unironically going to cause them to lose the monopoly they could have kept pretty much forever had they just been reasonable.
The current executives will have cashed in their stock by then and moved on to gut the integrity of the next brand.
They don't have a monopoly. CASE, Kubota, Massey Ferguson and others make tractors too.
@@willgallaher501 Exactly. It's funny how the greed of a handful of people can ruin things for everyone else.
@@JK-br1mu I think the point here isn't a monopoly on sales. No one mentioned the issue was a sales monopoly. It seems they do have a monopoly in regards to servicing/repair unless the other brands you mentions have access to Deere software and licence to repair Deer equipment.
@@DW-10 I think the point is morons who don't understand basic economic definitions, but try to use them anyway.
This is also an example where giving company executives the ability to make vast sums of money from stock price targets and not necessarily the real performance of the company has to distort how they see their jobs and has to influence their decisions.
Executive salary should be directly tied to the lowest paid employee/contractor.
Bad incentive structures are ruining the world.
This is not an example of that at all. Lol.
@@Hebdomad7 That makes no sense. Then everyone would apply for the job that has the same pay but less work, if everyone made the same.
Yes there is a major issue with how executives are paid, but any solution would have to at least be logical.
@@yingnyang you mean like, right to repair or The fact that farming is under attack by the federal government in many many different ways?
CANCEL JOHN DEERE PURCHASE DIFFERENT FARM EQUIPMENT UNTIL JD CHANGES MANAGEMENT & POLICY! COME ON GUYS LET'S START OUR OWN FARM EQUIPMENT COMPANY!
What people don’t realize is this affect everyone, not just rural farmers. Companies like Apple and many other tech companies are in this fight with John Deere.
We can't let your average consumer going in and repairing their iPhone. The safety concerns are kind of like in Aviation you know, you wouldn't want someone going in and repairing it!
@@SuperQBoi LoL. My laptop PC (5 years old) died because the battery no longer held charge. It was a complete pain in the neck prying the thing apart and pulling out the old battery and putting in a new one. These things are not designed to be fixed. And that is the crime. They want consumers to buy new every 2 or 3 years.
Not just tech companies. A lot of Auto (car) manufactures have jumped on this on Apple/JD's side.
@@lyianx The auto industries are already regulated by right to repair laws. That's why we have NAPA auto parts, advanced auto parts, O'Reilly auto parts, etc. It is against the law for them to try to deny their consumers to repair their vehicles
@@never2yield20 Which laptop was it because the ones I have owned all had a removable battery ?
The value of the data JD is collecting from those farmers using software on the equipment has massive value. They should be compensated for it or allowed to opt out.
Does google UA-cam and Facebook compensate us for all the data they collect from us ?
@@MR.TOYBOX They should, I would love to know where "I" have been sold.
Anything that involves _your_ data should be opt-in, never opt-out.
You can opt out of Facebook to some extent. Google has some of that functionality as well. depends on the country you live in. Also worth considering if using software on a computer is the same as software that controls equipment/vehicles.
@@MR.TOYBOX not yet, but they should
I hope the farmers win. I'm not a farmer, but I do have a few pieces of JD equipment in my fleet, it's a major hassle when we have a "software" issue. Unfortunately the money gets in the way.
We never use John Deere on my farm. All old fords. John Deere knows they have a monopoly and they shove it on everyone
A company Cannot tell a farmer in the midst of planting or harvesting they will have to wait till regular work days and hours for the dealer to fix the farmers problem or even deliver or make available parts needed. The farmer needs it NOW (or yesterday). !
Hug a farmer and tell him that he is a hero. We can’t live without them. 😍
"repairing a tractor is like repairing an airplane", right. So if a tractor breaks down on a highway (on a highway highway?) It doesn't crash down to earth killing all its passengers....
Haha John Deer should stop snorting fertilizer.
I repair deere equipment everyday, his comparison is pretty correct. Alot of our technology is borrowed from aeronautical industry. Our machine are now capable of full autonomy and can drive themselves with no operator present. Our electrical system are extremely complicated. Anytime we hire light vehicle or retired military mechanics, they can't hack it and quit and say it's too hard of a job.
I'm also a John Deere tech. These new tractors are way more complicated than most people realize. I'm all for everybody being able to work on them but a lot of farmers have to have their hands held every step of the way when they do some of the more complicated repairs on newer JD equipment
@@sleepyta yep that's the truth. If they do buy the customer version of service advisor, you'd have to spend days on the phone or in person teaching them how to use it. Only reason I want the farmers to win is for me to have the chance to work for myself
@@user-jl5rx9yx2p I didn't even consider right to repair would enable you to be self employed, that really is a win win!
@@user-jl5rx9yx2p Sure they're as complicated as planes, but @Brattoes is right on one thing : the outcome if a tractor breaks are not as significant as if a plane crashes. A broken tractor will not turn wild and run over hundreds of people. It will just refuse to start. Justifying the need for a highly qualified mechanic over a security concern is a joke.
Some say it's a complicated issue. It's a very simple issue. Unless John Deere is issuing lifetime warranties they have no right to dictate who the owners use for repair.
Lolz! Lifetime warranties from such a pit of greed and selfishness?
I think you're asleep. You must be dreaming of a major agro corporation capable of doing right without force.
Seriously, I 💯% agree with you!
I use John Deere tractors and have for years, and the idea that anyone should be allowed to work on them and the company should still warranty their equipment no matter how badly a backyard mechanic messes it up doesn't make much sense.
@@freddexta3363 Um, no one said that except you. The OP presented an either/or, and not both.
@@MomMom4Cubs Just replying to the comment and yes you are right, I should have replied to the video piece. My point is just that nobody warrants any piece of equipment that hasn't been fixed by their own technicians for obvious reasons, and some of the people interviewed want to have it both ways. Or at least they leave a very strong impression that they hold that opinion.
@@freddexta3363 I agree wholeheartedly that no company wants to guarantee a product fiddled with by nonprofessionals. I did not, however, get the impression that anyone on the video wanted it both ways. It seemed clear to me that the preferred outcome is right-to-repair.
However, since they reject right-to-repair, they should ante up and get warranty their products.
I feel this is a poor solution because the days or weeks of lost production can be the death knell of a noncorporate farm.
I'm looking at a new tractor but I know it won't be a Deere. If anyone from John Deere is reading this by chance then you really should create programs that educate farmers, small shops providing repairs and empower them while also making money to expand that support program.
Anecdotal, but my understanding is that, when asked Deere or Kubota...two out of three buyers will choose Kubota.
@@Milo-nz5gf or Masey.
Or New Holland
Consider a Zetor :P
@@Milo-nz5gf kubotas not much better, once you get into the big equipment. I was a Kubota tech for 8 years. If you cancel the Regen system on an emissions compliant Kubota 4 consecutive times, a tech needs to come out with a laptop.
The John Deere executive is comparing a tractor/combine to an airplane. LOL
"John Deere must convince their customers and their employees that they care about more than just profits"
And they cannot.
They have already shown that they just care about profit.
It is a company. To make money for investors.
Welcome to America! That's the American way didn't you know that!
Farming in the USA can live WITHOUT John Deere. I know plenty of farmers in multiple states that don't own a single piece of Deere equipment.
Unfortunately it's not just John Deere doing this. Case International, M F , Cat Challenger & pretty much all of these companies are doing it.
@Doug Falstad 👍👍💯 Deere= 💩
@@76verdee You're absolutely right they're all doing it Really surprised you haven't had more people agree with you likes
@@76verdee maybe they belong to the same group of people.
So competition is fake.
I would argue that sensible legal environments wouldn't encourage such, while the current climate favors PseudoMonopolys and infinite exploitation of locked in users .
Right to Repair is so much more important than people realize. Louis Rossmann's video helped me a ton, has been fighting this fight for years.
My laptop got a continuous blue screen last monday, and knowing how to disassemble it to recover the hard drive that will have its data moved into a backup pc before putting it back for resetting sure helps. Wish my mom stop going to repair stores as if the common man don't qualify to fix their machines. You own the product, means at some degree there are things one can actually get their hands on with a basic teardown knowledge.
I love operating John Deere Equipment in Farming Simulator 2013. I'm all for Farmers being able to work on their own equipment when they can get to proper tools to fix it.
There is absolutely no good argument against right to repair. Its one of the few issues that both democrats and republicans wholeheartedly agree on, yet because it goes against the interests of the rich institutions are cripplingly lethargic to implement it
there is one, money
You can't repair or modify a lot of things without a certification or proper training because it would be very dangerous or illegal and immoral to do so.
@@alierrtrillo9368 Did you, a mentally sound human being, just state it would be *immoral* to repair an item you bought with your own money? 👓 Am I reading this absolute stupidity right? As for very dangerous or illegal state an example because in my experience one usually buys equipment for a field they are familiar with so give an example?
@@alierrtrillo9368 immoral to repair my equipment that i brought with my money?
It’s time you realize that Democrats and Republicans both work for the same team. The Rich. They just keep us quarreling between red and blue so we are easier to control.
Makes me feel refreshed that farmers are on our side in the fight for right to repair.
I have watched literally dozens of large farms replace their locked machines for other manufacturers. Thanks JD
I'm a heavy equipment operator. We have rid ourselves of all Deere equipment.
I refuse to run Deere equipment.
Fock John Deere.
That's one of the problems. There AREN'T modern machines available that are open enough. Honestly I'm in favor of just anonymously creating open-source tools that farmers can use to do all the computer-side stuff they need to, and Deere can try to stop me/them/us. Don't give Deere the option of doing a bad job of supporting right-to-repair, just give everyone full access without Deere's input and let them grind their gears legally if they want.
What equipment are operators going to?
@@JohnDoe-mh8tm CAT probably, or there are even electric alternatives now which are pretty cool. But probably a nightmare to repair.
Yep, nothing new around here is green. Lots of new IHC or Case, nothing JD.
I fully SUPPORT THE FARMERS!!!!!
As long as people believe the entire point of companies is to make enormous profits for third parties who contribute nothing to the design, manufacture and use of products, these kinds of issues are going to be endemic.
are you talking about small repair shops or the stockowners? your comment could go both ways.
@@lucaskp16 the difference is between making a living and making profits for the sake of sitting on a pile of money.
He's right about one thing the tractor has changed drastically. For the worst...
I really don't like seeing the autonomous tractors... driving machines is the fun part of farming!
In that time the yield has gone from 23 to 175 BU/acre. Of course, it's not all due to machinery - but all different technological advances across the board have done that and tractors are an important part
Nobody "bleeds deere green" anymore. The dealership experience has gone downhill along with the ownership experience. Their brand new hay balers come with the cheapest electrical connectors that can be found. Not farm ready at all. Other companies smell the blood in the water and farmers are buying elsewhere. Duetz-Fahr is about to upset JD's tractor market. They are german made, built to work on and maintain, and no right to repair bs. That profit graph will cost JD the game.
Are there any other brands challenging JD? Here in South Africa 🇿🇦 it's the Japanese company Kubota that's taking them on quite successfully
@@Sabundy Kubota doesn't have anything that will touch the bigger tractors.
@@Sabundy Yes, but I have heard from 2 owners of late-model Kubota excavators that Kubota is playing the John Deere Game too.
I remember in the old days when companies cared about their reputation and quality, and actually made service manuals readily available..
Next time you need to buy a piece of JD equipment ask to include a speed of repair clause into the purchase. Fixed within a certain time or the dealer starts paying a penalty. Happens in the airplane business. ( that JD compares themselves to )
The problem is, for a farmer during harvest or sowing any delay is unacceptable. So the farmer will want a clause that has a tech on site within the hour, regardless of day or time.
JD however would prefer to not have to pay for that kind of service network, especially given how vast some distances can be in the US, so they're more likely to view a couple of days at the bare minimum as an acceptable delay. They're never going to sign a contract that demands penalties from them within a couple of hours, when it's physically all but impossible to get someone on site within that timeframe.
As for the airplane industry, most airlines regardless of whether it's cargo or passengers, will just fly a different plane in to replace the broken down one while it waits for parts to arrive. In which case it might not really be an issue if a plane needs to remain in hangar for a couple of days.
Farmers usually don't have a spare tractor or harvester standing around just in case their primary one breaks down. And I bet that JD doesn't want to provide those temporary replacement units at short notice either.
That penalty in a farming scenario would be replacing lost revenue for the farm that results from the delay in repair. That would bring a lot of support for John Deere, and be well worth the short term losses to maintain the monopoly.
@@fermitupoupon1754 Around here we have hog farms that depend on electricity to run the fans. If the fans go down the pigs start to die in about an hour. I've heard stories where during a blizzard hydro goes down. Crews will take parts where they can get them to restore power. Farmer went to the end of the road to ask the crew what was the problem and when he would get power back. Told the transformer had blown up. They where taking transformer off the pole in town and installing it. The people would have to live without. I believe the deal is that hydro pays for any dead animals, no questions asked.
@@fermitupoupon1754 The airlines have extra planes because canceled flights cost a whole lot more than delayed ones: Enough to justify owning an extra plane. Given the tendency of farming away from the folks in this video and more toward large conglomerate corporate beasts, I bet you'd find that said large entities DO have spare tractors because of a similar issue - they can afford to cover one for partial use if down-time is guaranteed. (And it is guaranteed for any given machine with moving parts and software.) Just one more reason that family farms are dying out - if you only prioritize profit margin, eventually, that's all you have ...
@@stephentroyer3831 As an alternative. Take out an insurance policy with the dealer ( backed by JD ) that in the event of a breakdown the dealer will have it back in action in a certain time frame or a "loaner" on site. How many dealers when you take your car in for service give you a loaner for the day. It's an incentive for JD to build reliable equipment
I never thought I'd say this but I'm 100% with the farmers on this one. This is bigger then just the extortion fees JohnDeer and all the rest want to charge which, on its own, is enough to warrant right-to-repair legislation, but the bigger issue is lost production and it's a price we all have to pay.
why would you think you wouldve been against farmers on the issue of fixing stuff?
@@ibeleaf because the general belief is that farmers set the price of the food that they grow and raise and it trickles down to the consumer, so the increased cost in food is the farmers fault. But the gentleman from Nebraska said it best. "We're paying retail but we're selling wholesale". Growing up on a farm i've always known but never had it put so simply. Everything I had to get for my cows/steers and heifers what at a retail store. Parts for the farm/equipment from the hardware store or dealership....but the price per pound would depend on the price of the day at market.
@@ibeleaf Who said I would have been against anyone on the issue of fixing stuff?
@@MrManerd you did
@@garlic6969 No I did not. I said "I never thought I'd say this but I'm 100% with the farmers on this one.", AS IN, I never thought I'd say the phrase "I'm 100% with the farmers".
"Farming in America could not exist without John Deere"... this is the most idiotic statement I've heard. I grew up farming with John Deere but guess what, if they weren't around we would have bought Case or Ford/New Holland or Allis Chalmers or any of the AGCO family of equipment or any of the countless other offerings out there. I'd put a Gleaner combine up against any John Deere any day.
You can't believe most of what Bloomberg reports on because they are in league with the Despotic Democrat Party and they'll slander and put down Americans every chance they get.
I stand with the Farmers!
Proven fact: The more complex the system, the less reliable and failure prone it will be.
That is why UNIX philosophy is the way it is, build it to do one thing only, but do that thing well.
Is it though? Diesel engines are more complicated than ever, but work more reliably in extreme cold than ever before. But it does make fixing it after a breakdown virtually impossible without taking it to a shop so the trade-off is real.
@@lilacdoe7945 Oh Yeah. Mechanic and technician for forty years. The wizardry of electronic control systems comes at the price of Owner access and in some cases makes Mechanical repair easier and less complex while increasing the difficulty of electrical and control system repair. That's what this whole fight is about. Companies invest huge sums of money to create the marvelous machines and aren't about to allow even an excellent tech not in their employ to repair them. This fight really started in the computer and tel-com industry.
@@jamesappling1212 yep, as I said in a different comment, this is about the only issue young techies and old farmers agree on.
Very true. I recall my Mom bought her 2004 Mercedez E320. FIrst Mercedez she ever bought after a string of other luxury brands. This was the first computerized chip car she had for a car, on the driver's back left side power windows didn't work well, so the dealer actually offered her a discount on the car. Over time that power window became a whole string of issues. We never had an issue with any of the other cars we owned.
There is the truth: John Deere is doomed if they don't back off on the right to repair. Mark my words. JD must let farmers do what they want, farmers are not their servants. JD is evil.
Rich corporate criminals john deere.
It's a corporate club where they copy each other. Apple makes bank on forcing people to buy new product and blocking their ability to get local repair by serializing parts and not letting any but the registered serialized part to work. Stealing peoples ability to repair inflating their cost of business.
I've worked in the IT field for 20+ years and currently run my own computer repair business. I'm extremely familiar with the battle on "Right To Repair". Using 3rd party parts and a non-Apple certified technician (or being able to fix it yourself) to fix an Apple product can't even begin to touch the amount of money that could be saved in repairing these John Deere tractors. These are truly amazing machines and not only do you have the mechanical side of repairs, but you need an IT guy on top of that for all of the sophisticated electronics on the things. It has to cost a fortune to just maintain these machines, I can't even begin to imagine if something was to break, especially with the "John Deere tax" that I'm sure is added.
As most of you already know, an OBD II scanner for your automobile can be cheap and useless or expensive and incredibly valuable. I am absolutely ignorant of farm products, but certain that there does exist a port on each of these units for a scanner which will be both expensive, valuable, and ubiquitous on large farms and in independent service shops across the country. If dealers would staff the urgency of planting and harvest seasons just as the farmers do, there's be no complaint of time lost to weekends and salarymen. I enthusiastically support a Right to Repair bill as broad or narrow as can be passed if it includes farm equipment.
Over these past few years, seeing the left and the right come together in favour of right to repair has been hope inspiring.
Except the right votes for the billionaires which are never going to support farmers, or anyone who isn't a billionaire. The billionaires always win, and they do not care about you.
@@randomgrinn lol yeah you're right. Don't forget the billionaires the left gets used by. Bloomberg, gates, Zuckerberg, Soros, Schwab. They don't care about the working class either
@@nostarswithoutdarkness lol yes!
@@randomgrinn what are you talking about? The left has been shilling for the pharmaceutical companies for almost 3 years now.
Imagine believing the left/right political paradigm, LOL
Right to repair needs to become a law around the globe , companies need to realize they wouldn't be where they are today if it weren't for the customers whom they treat like a bunch of idiots
In the corporate world customers and employees are at the bottom of the priority list. Profits and share holders are the elite in their eyes. It is all about making more and more profit each quarter to keep driving up stock prices. Profits generated that way can only go so far before there are major problems.
@@elonever.2.071 I agree. Eventually, the user will find another way and the large corporation will have to do something to stop the loss of funds. One way, not the only way, is for the large corporation to support an authoritarian type of operation where the "workers" (farmers too) are dependent on the corporation for a living. This is one way the former USSR failed it's people but it could happen here.
I don't like the idea of authoritarianism but some people seem to like it.
@@elonever.2.071 This would change if consumers would use their buying power. We as a society seems to like to buy and complain instead of going without for awhile to prove a point. Yes, I do understand that sometimes you really cannot so without.
@@DVankeuren
The problem here in the States is that students are subliminally taught to be mindless consumers. It is times like Covid and recessions that bring some people out of that stupor. And you are right that people have to use their buying power to make a statement and make changes. It got Gillette to change their attitude about men when they lost $6B pretty quick. Farmers are a resilient bunch and dont forget for generations when they have been duped. I bet that you will see John Deere losing market share over the next decade. Their brand already took a huge hit when they sold cheaply made lawn tractors and mowers through Lowes.
@@DVankeuren Yep. Consumers are a bunch of idiots. That's a hard problem to fix. We need the regulation to work around it. Fixing this with regulation is hard too, though. Companies tend to do the absolute minimum to comply with such things, or comply in ways that contribute little to nothing to the purpose of the regulation, or find new ways to circumvent the regulation. Regulation like this only works when it is uncompromising. It has to be rigorously enforced and hit hard with huge fines in a way that damages the shareholders and not the consumers. We can't pass that kind of law without bipartisan support.
You can tell the guy speaking for Deere at the end has never even sat in a tractor yet he thinks he knows whats best for farmers. Typical.
He's probably in on it. Most people are for right to repair because everyone can sympathize or at least empathize.
Do your self a favor and cancel your farm plan accounts, owned by Deere, once they charge your account you have almost no recourse on a bill dispute, I canceled mine about 6 years ago and have benefited from doing so.
This space is RIPE for a well-informed, local, open-source startup for either original equipment or bolt-on accessories.
It’d be seriously difficult to thread the needle just right and dodge the entrenched interests, but has the potential for yielding an immensely valuable market.
Potential is there, but you’d need to wait and see how all of this plays out. How the strike goes, and how the ongoing litigation goes. Entry into this market requires a ton of capital which is the problem.
Sounds like you're describing monarch tractor
The problem here is John Deere will most likely sue for a DMCA violation. i.e. the accessory violates their DRM.
I think the software is available on the dark web. Thanks to ukrainian farmers.
Market inefficiency is opportunity for those who are willing
Comparing the danger posed by third parties working on agricultural equipment software to aviation is the height of corporate cynicism.
Right to repair is essential to all walks of life.
These corporate pirates have to be reigned in! They are strangling their own customers!
Years ago I was a mechanic for John Deer, it was simple engines/ hydraulics etc. A few days ago I was talking to a Friend who happens to be a farmer, he was telling me about the tractor's now days, they/John Deer has got the farmers by the Balls,
When it comes to repairing their equipment, it's absolutely nuts
"tractor going down the hwy".
Ok. I live in a farming community. My wife has worked in Ag for years. i've personally been called out to diagnose engine trouble on farm equipment as a formally training mechanic to pay for engineering school.
What an exaggeration. They let owner/operators repair their own 80,000 lbs tractor-trailers traveling 80 MPH from California to North Carolina and back.
You mean to tell me a farmer moving an oversized load of hay 0.75 miles on a public road with a speed limit of 35 MPH (yes it's a state hwy) is " a major threat to the public"?????? Really? How many people are even killed every rear by rogue tractors vs commercial and consumer vehicles? That's the problem? That's like spitting into a rain storm and calling it wet!
Haven't you heard of all the tractors falling out of the sky?
@@jannikmeissner Don't be glib, he's trying to avoid tragedy like the 1991 incident where a tractor's maintenance crew forgot to replace some screws during a shift change causing a tractor to fall from the sky killing 14 people on impact.
Tractor maintenance is serious stuff.
Exactly
As far as salaries go, perhaps there should be a law that states that CEO's should be only entitled to the same percentage salary increase as workers.
CEO's would never let that law pass... Rich have the pockets to buy folks in government so government will protect the rich...
In all honesty a maximum wage would be more useful than a minimum wage.
Perhaps the worst Example of this is last Year's Train Driver Strike in Germany. The Train Drivers at Deutsche Bahn went on Strike for a 1.5% Raise, which isn't even enough to adjust for Inflation, while the Managers gave themselves Raises between 10-20%, meaning that none of them make less than a Million per Month now. All of this happened during record Losses due to the Pandemic, and the Deutsche Bahn even refused a Government Bailout, because that would have preconditioned no Management Raises in 2021.
Another Example for Management Greed in the Deutsche Bahn is how they improved "Punctuality". Until 2019, a Passenger Train was considered on Time if it was less than 6 Minutes late, but the Deutsche Bahn kept failing massively on their Goal of having 75% of Trains on Time. So they just increased "on Time" to less than 15 Minutes late and then paid themselves Millions in Bonus for having reached the Punctuality Goals.
I hope you're a liberal, because what you' re asking is for the gov't to step in and make laws against rampant capitalism.
Or that workers can only be paid in stock options.
Yes, I support the farmers' strike to service the repair of machinery for farmers!
It is amazing how similar this problem is to the whole McDonald's Ice Cream machine issue. Companies are no longer creating a business model where they sell their machine for a profit, they are selling their machine at a lower cost, and then their business model is that they create profits by forcing customers to use them to repair their product. The next time you pull into a McDonalds and they tell you the ice cream machine is out of order.. think John Deere green.
The ice cream machines. John Deere, electronics repair... It's all connected in the battle for Right to Repair.
@@ZarHakkar Lol it's actually late-stage capitalism but yes you're not wrong
I bet they are selling for a big profit and banking on it to break down to further their profit margins.
Exactly where my thoughts went to as well. Though I think the story behind the machines isn't apparently super common knowledge. It's another tale of right to repair vs big Corp, but mcdonalds has to feed its sister company...
Gaming companies do the same thing. Release a broken product, force consumer to repair it using micro transactions, profit.
The first sentence in this article is a lie.
They basically said that farming in America wouldn't be possible without John Deere, really.
There are quite a few alternatives to John Deere out there. They aren't the only manufacturers of agricultural equipment in America.
It's a complete BS article. Much is exaggerated. The NE representative saying a guy will be down over the weekend during planting season. I don't know of a single dealer that is not 24x7 during spring, and harvest. Might take a while to get a tech on site but they will get one out as fast as they can. Yes I want to see consumer rights better defined and protected, but John Deere would not be doing as well as they are if they were screwing their customers over like this video represents.
@@ShainAndrews I know an independent heavy equipmewnt mechanic who could hire 20 mechanics and that wouldn't put much of a dent in his demand. The JD shop (2hrs away by semi) is full of non-talented mechanics and smart farmers will wait months willingly for repairs to avoid going to the dealer.
@@andytaylor1588 I'm not making the case that every dealer is competent. Interestingly enough you make the case that dealers, and by extension the manufactures, are not stopping repairs and service. Something that is really mischaracterized in this effort.
@@ShainAndrews 😂😂😂😂 ok, sure. Ive seen at peak times it could take as long as 2 or 3 days! They Dont have unlimited service techs
It's interesting that when a farmer here in Victoria, Australia retired he looked back through his records and noticed that the fuel consumption per acre for cropping was identical in the 1970's up to the 2010. Just the size and repair costs of the machinery
In other words, man-hours went down.
the machines got bigger and more fuel efficient, almost like companies like john deer need to make money to produce better machines.
@@thebogangamer1 Making money through normal business is not problem but when you get in bed with the government so that they can give you concessions over the competition and create your entire business model into a racketeering model it becomes a problem for the ones providing the money to John Deere
Almost all the comments here are in support of the farmers right to repair and I agree with that in the context of providing the tools necessary to diagnose and repair the tractor. Allowing them to modify the embedded software or the parameters used therein is absurd. I worked as an electronic systems engineer at one of the big three for decades and I can tell you that there is an unbelievable amount of effort spent on safety in software. The companies have to go through extensive code reviews and testing to get permission from governments (e.g. homologation in EU, emissions testing, etc.) before they are allowed to sell them there. Modifying even one parameter could result in the tractor steering failure for example. It's not something that should even be considered. It takes years to train a computer scientist to be competent with the code base and there are millions of automated tests that are done after each and every change. There is no way a layman is going to hack the control software and "repair" something. In fact if someone manages to change anything in the controller, it's going to be a brick afterwards. If you disagree, you are asking for farmers to have the right to drive a tractor which could do anything unpredictable at any time, potentially killing someone else or themselves.