What I noticed was when, he supposedly tried to poke is eyes out he used the pad of his thumbs not the very point of the thumbs, that might make a difference, also when it's for real you would get an adrenaline dump were you would probably try alot harder or have more strength
Solid points about pain compliance. Even if you are training a "Martial art" and being a nice training buddy for your partner, a good chunk of your training should be (at least mentally) about breaking stuff to remove function. If you can find training partners who don't mind resisting and getting roughed up, go for it, but it's still compliant drilling. Useful, but a long way from fighting.
The Vunak video with the bite Vunak is actively fighting the choke with his hands WHILE inflicting a painful bite. The ridiculous BJJ instructor ignores this and makes it seem like the idea is that the bite itself is enough. It's a lie!
Anybody like Sigung Paul Vunak who will "Chew your balls", "eat your face", and scratch your cornea off your eyeballs is not to be "Fooled with" in a Streetfight. "You gotta kill 'em!"
The crazy thing is real jujutsu (Japanese) og jujitsu that led to judo and eventually bjj has dirty techniques like eye pokes kicks to the nutes etc.. it has it's place but it should be in addition to the three main grappling styles like bjj wrestling judo
@@johnrambo4259 Aikijitsu, derived from the Samarai Arts, led to Judo and BJJ. One should have knowledge of Vale Tudo and/or Combat Judo if using Jiu-jitsu for Street Combat. Also, Combat Jiu-jitsu of Masters David Kahn and Kevin O'Hagan fame.
To add to the point you make later in the video about them being training buddies he always uses the pad of his thumb to poke into his eye always avoiding the point and finger nail. Tim you are right about intent and the body dynamics. 4:37
Its all about the set up. Once a hold is secure. I agree.. not much to be done as far as eye gouge and biting. However, in the process/mist of a fight there is ample space and time. Not to mention, the deployment of edged weapons.
I guess I would ask the BJJ guy if he thinks a sharp stick in the eye would be effective. If somebody were to just reach in their pocket and do this with a car key it would be very different. Either way a smaller woman locked in a RNC is going to have limited options.
@@seric4546 On the street people fight with weapons and they come in groups. No such thing as a fair fight. Iv never seen an "art" do anything . Individual people have skills or they don't.
@@rightwinggunnut1 I agree. In the hands of a trained determined individual even a 2/12-3 inch small blade inserted into the right place can be very persuasive.
I thought the same thing, that student wasn't going to hurt his coach. If I am training with someone I am not going to physically harm them no matter what he tells me. Some jerk that accosts me on the street, they are going to get their knee dislocated, their face slammed into my knee, choked out, whatever. I am not going to do that kind of damage to a training partner.
Im not a martial artist, im just a guy who knows what real violence looks and feels like!.......the simplest way i'll put it is.....biting and eye gouging as a fight ender= bullshit! biting and eye gouging in the right position in order to buy a second of time and space to do other shit= valid!...tried and tested! also maybe the guy in the video you showed is just made of better and tougher stuff than i am, but i can close my eye as hard as i want, but if i push my thumb against it with even moderate pressure.....it freakin hurts! and when i open my eye back up, im seeing spots! .....so i dont think its as easy as just closing your eye!
I’ve noticed there’s a definite and pronounced asymmetry between sport practitioners and Real World scenarios. For example you get a group of guys working jujitsu techniques and nobody does anything dirty and they all agree to stay focused on jujitsu. After while they start to believe that because no one cheats or fouls that they’re impervious to such techniques. Which couldn’t be further from the truth. You can’t train fouls or injuries they have to be understood from a realistic standpoint. If we were to maim our training partners/students it defeats our purposes. To assume no one can hurt you because no one has or does is the height of delusion. There’s a disparity of intentions that takes both participants to different destinations extremely fast!
It's a very important clarification you're making at the start of the video. Violence is taught, not self defense. It may controlled violence as long as it's taught in a safe environment, but it's still violence. And using it under certain circumstances, even though they may warrant it under the context of self defense, might very well get you in deep trouble with the legal system.
Hey Tim. Have you checked out Joe Lewis ten best self-defense techniques video. He was a karate champion, a kickboxing champion who also helped create the sport in America, he was a marine in who served in Vietnam, and he defended himself in real fights at times during his life. He was a student of Bruce Lee and he mentions what he considered the fastest technique which was also Bruce Lee's favorite street technique. He shows a lot of what he considered to be best techniques and I really liked the last technique the finishing technique he showed at the end. It combined a very effective strike with a very effective finishing hold if that didn't work and even a back up to that. He also explained how he used that technique in real life himself when he was attacked. I would certainly like to hear your review of that video.
Got to meet Joe years ago along with Benny “The Jet” Uriquedez in LA. Joe was a great guy and had excellent information. He had a really great stories that were relevant to self defense. Not familiar with the product you wrote about. If i can find a copy i will check it out
There is a counter for every move. The biggest mistake that instructors make, in my opinion is that they label a defense against attack xyz as the definitive technique. There is context for everything. Most people simply don't know what to do when faced with violence. Doing something unexpected has a better chance of working than doing nothing at all but don't say "just bite him". People on drugs, drunk or just full of adrenaline can have a very high pain threshold. I've seen a man break his hand in a fight and not realize it until after it was over and the adrenaline wore off. Rule #1, don't fight a psychopath. How do you know they're a psychopath? You don't so don't take any chances and don't fight unless its to save your life.
Tim, have you read much classic literature in the combat/defense realm? I was thinking, in particular, stuff like "All-In Fighting" by W.E. Fairbairn & "Kill or Get Killed" by Rex Applegate. If you've read them, do you find them to be useful resources or do you think they are outdated and ineffective?
All those books are in my library. I find that the principles in those books to be timeless. The methods are dated and have been replaced by better methods. But the mindset and blunt language is some of the clearest writing on the subject.
It may or it may not work..but i wanted to also ask like what the scene before they end up on that position. Looks like the position is always in favor of the bjj guy. If i am going to bite i will put that on the flesh behind the elbow, its soft at for sure will hit a vein.
Thanks Tim for solid stuff I was taught by my martial arts teachers to train slow Too many people assume that you will be able to get do your move I used to hang out in bars BJJ. Kids good I trained in it But too many times I see when people go to to the ground Everyone comes in for a free kick To struggle with 1person opens you up to someone u didn't see Thanks Tim
Most of those “poke em in the eye” videos like that chick was showing are ridiculous. Don’t expect to be able to do that. At the same time I would caution a BJJ guy to think his choke is unbeatable. He can absolutely beat my thumb but he can’t beat the blade that’s going into his eye. There’s a counter for every counter.
Humans are funny creatures. The meanings they attach to words vary a great deal between individuals and over time. Self defence to an English person in the C17th meant killing people that were intent on doing you in or who were engaged in doing something that would do you in either now or later. It doesn't have the same meaning to most English people now, and clearly is so imprecise in the US now that Mr Larkin prefers the word 'violence'. Violence is a word that has multiple meanings depending on context. It is possible to say something violently. Some people have taken up the idea that words themselves can now be an act of violence. What word or phrase can Mr Larkin employ next after the serviceable one for today becomes the worthless imprecise one of tomorrow? Which leads us to the underlying problem. What people have going on in their heads and how to get them to understand the concept or idea using words or pictures that convey the concept or idea correctly and accurately? It seems that a lot of people really don't understand the difference between 'fighting some guy or guys off after they have started mouthing off at you in the bar' and ending someone because they want to attack you and do you in. People create all kinds of weird and unnecessary rules and scenarios which they believe have to be met, or believe will somehow magically manifest if they have to use force against another human. Mr Larkin and the TFT instructor group clearly do understand. It is endlessly fascinating following Mr Larkin's efforts to calibrate and recalibrate to effectively convey the concepts and ideas according to the feedback and videos he gets sent.
interesting, a few youtubes by 'bouncers' stating ** they've had a finger BEHIND a drunks' eyeball, and near ZERO response; ** ditto, one MMA-night-type thing, where a guys' first bout involved him getting LITERALLY blinded-- he didn''t 'catch' that, then WON his next bout that night, then lost his THIRD bout that night!!-- finally figured-out he had a problem with the eye... ** ditto, BREAKING a drunks' finger, no pain-response! ** various sports events, where serious injury incurred, but no pain-response, until hitting the showers, then LONG rehab... ** so, ya gotta get a DISABLING injury, or continue attempting to. then jail, prison, etc etc etc...
Part of it is that UA-cam does not serve up this kind of content to people who haven't searched it out. And even if you have searched it out, if you don't subscribe UA-cam will tend to easily 'forget' you had any interest in it and not serve it up again. But if you show any interest in cats or a variety of other anodyne stuff? Hmm. Maybe Mr Larkin should start putting cats in his videos?
I learned how to boogie on the mean streets...out of love, but when I was much younger. I will take on an MMA or "trained" fighter on more occasion than I would a seasoned, scrappy street boy. That is my experience, anyway. This being said, I am a mover, I would NOT want to get tangled up with a well trained jiu jitsu
People always like cherry picking little details from every person and act like that is the entirety of the concept. Have mike tyson bite your arm and see if you get the choke lol. Small people with undeveloped mandibles aren’t good examples.
😂 vunak trained with the gracies in brasil before they even come to usa !! And what he was doing is kina mutai not just a bite !! Unintrupted bite is something else !! 😄 first you secure and you hold the target or the meet properly then adds the bite properly and all of the moves that this guy showed are good but were not against legit moves all !! 😄
Yeah I agree, you’re student will never go full power on you out of respect so that’s a bad example for instance Kino Mutai isn’t just bitting it’s literally ripping flesh off of the body with your teeth. There’s a whole art devoted to it and your student won’t do that. Also showing cut version’s of the technique is misleading, show it in full with proper application. It’s just about fanboying about your style which is counterproductive. One of those people on the clips actually trained Navy Seals and was doing BJJ back in the 80’s before MMA with the Gracie’s in their garage so he might know a little more than the person who put up the clip 😂
A real bite is going to take a chunk and be extremely painful and a serious poke in the eye is absolutely going to blind someone..BUT.. no one is going to find the eye while being choked.. the same as getting the teeth in..unless the attacker gets it wrong and puts his arm straight in. I'm a bodyguard.. I have 2 boot knives, a Fox Knives low profile karambit in each pocket AND a windproof lighter available to me. Regardless of what the attacker will do, how big he is: it's game over for him. I like your analysis and the BJJ guy isn't being realistic.
What I noticed was when, he supposedly tried to poke is eyes out he used the pad of his thumbs not the very point of the thumbs, that might make a difference, also when it's for real you would get an adrenaline dump were you would probably try alot harder or have more strength
Solid points about pain compliance.
Even if you are training a "Martial art" and being a nice training buddy for your partner, a good chunk of your training should be (at least mentally) about breaking stuff to remove function.
If you can find training partners who don't mind resisting and getting roughed up, go for it, but it's still compliant drilling. Useful, but a long way from fighting.
The Vunak video with the bite Vunak is actively fighting the choke with his hands WHILE inflicting a painful bite. The ridiculous BJJ instructor ignores this and makes it seem like the idea is that the bite itself is enough. It's a lie!
Anybody like Sigung Paul Vunak who will "Chew your balls", "eat your face", and scratch your cornea off your eyeballs is not to be "Fooled with" in a Streetfight. "You gotta kill 'em!"
@@georgeafutujr.9369 I heard when asked about using ears for head control his answer was , "They come off too easy".
@Seric Sifu Steve Burton and Shihan Russell Stutley of The UK say that too and teach how in some of their Instructional videos!
The crazy thing is real jujutsu (Japanese) og jujitsu that led to judo and eventually bjj has dirty techniques like eye pokes kicks to the nutes etc.. it has it's place but it should be in addition to the three main grappling styles like bjj wrestling judo
@@johnrambo4259 Aikijitsu, derived from the Samarai Arts, led to Judo and BJJ. One should have knowledge of Vale Tudo and/or Combat Judo if using Jiu-jitsu for Street Combat. Also, Combat Jiu-jitsu of Masters David Kahn and Kevin O'Hagan fame.
To add to the point you make later in the video about them being training buddies he always uses the pad of his thumb to poke into his eye always avoiding the point and finger nail.
Tim you are right about intent and the body dynamics. 4:37
Its all about the set up. Once a hold is secure. I agree.. not much to be done as far as eye gouge and biting. However, in the process/mist of a fight there is ample space and time. Not to mention, the deployment of edged weapons.
I guess I would ask the BJJ guy if he thinks a sharp stick in the eye would be effective. If somebody were to just reach in their pocket and do this with a car key it would be very different. Either way a smaller woman locked in a RNC is going to have limited options.
@@seric4546 On the street people fight with weapons and they come in groups. No such thing as a fair fight. Iv never seen an "art" do anything . Individual people have skills or they don't.
@@gregoryrogalsky6937 I agree. I personally think all women should train to use a knife for defense as well as any other available tool.
100%. A sharp blade sunk in that pelvic girdle would loosen his grip, i promise..💪👊🥷🏻
@@rightwinggunnut1 I agree. In the hands of a trained determined individual even a 2/12-3 inch small blade inserted into the right place can be very persuasive.
Always appreciate the reality you give. Learn to stay out of situations and if that was not possible.....then....it's showtime.
I thought the same thing, that student wasn't going to hurt his coach. If I am training with someone I am not going to physically harm them no matter what he tells me. Some jerk that accosts me on the street, they are going to get their knee dislocated, their face slammed into my knee, choked out, whatever. I am not going to do that kind of damage to a training partner.
Tim, I was hoping you could recommend a good book on Sports Medicine?
Tim, Excellent discussion with many valid points ! Thank you very much .
Glad it was helpful!
Im not a martial artist, im just a guy who knows what real violence looks and feels like!.......the simplest way i'll put it is.....biting and eye gouging as a fight ender= bullshit!
biting and eye gouging in the right position in order to buy a second of time and space to do other shit= valid!...tried and tested!
also maybe the guy in the video you showed is just made of better and tougher stuff than i am, but i can close my eye as hard as i want, but if i push my thumb against it with even moderate pressure.....it freakin hurts! and when i open my eye back up, im seeing spots! .....so i dont think its as easy as just closing your eye!
Can't argue with your comments my brotha'
I’ve noticed there’s a definite and pronounced asymmetry between sport practitioners and Real World scenarios.
For example you get a group of guys working jujitsu techniques and nobody does anything dirty and they all agree to stay focused on jujitsu. After while they start to believe that because no one cheats or fouls that they’re impervious to such techniques. Which couldn’t be further from the truth.
You can’t train fouls or injuries they have to be understood from a realistic standpoint. If we were to maim our training partners/students it defeats our purposes. To assume no one can hurt you because no one has or does is the height of delusion. There’s a disparity of intentions that takes both participants to different destinations extremely fast!
Yeh, that was Paul Vunak at 5:46. He has been for decades, and still is, very well marketed. Go figure.
Thanks for always putting out great content!
I appreciate that!
It's a very important clarification you're making at the start of the video. Violence is taught, not self defense. It may controlled violence as long as it's taught in a safe environment, but it's still violence. And using it under certain circumstances, even though they may warrant it under the context of self defense, might very well get you in deep trouble with the legal system.
Hey Tim. Have you checked out Joe Lewis ten best self-defense techniques video. He was a karate champion, a kickboxing champion who also helped create the sport in America, he was a marine in who served in Vietnam, and he defended himself in real fights at times during his life. He was a student of Bruce Lee and he mentions what he considered the fastest technique which was also Bruce Lee's favorite street technique. He shows a lot of what he considered to be best techniques and I really liked the last technique the finishing technique he showed at the end. It combined a very effective strike with a very effective finishing hold if that didn't work and even a back up to that. He also explained how he used that technique in real life himself when he was attacked. I would certainly like to hear your review of that video.
Got to meet Joe years ago along with Benny “The Jet” Uriquedez in LA. Joe was a great guy and had excellent information. He had a really great stories that were relevant to self defense. Not familiar with the product you wrote about. If i can find a copy i will check it out
There is a counter for every move. The biggest mistake that instructors make, in my opinion is that they label a defense against attack xyz as the definitive technique. There is context for everything. Most people simply don't know what to do when faced with violence. Doing something unexpected has a better chance of working than doing nothing at all but don't say "just bite him". People on drugs, drunk or just full of adrenaline can have a very high pain threshold. I've seen a man break his hand in a fight and not realize it until after it was over and the adrenaline wore off.
Rule #1, don't fight a psychopath. How do you know they're a psychopath? You don't so don't take any chances and don't fight unless its to save your life.
Intent is much more important than skillset.
Tim, have you read much classic literature in the combat/defense realm? I was thinking, in particular, stuff like "All-In Fighting" by W.E. Fairbairn & "Kill or Get Killed" by Rex Applegate. If you've read them, do you find them to be useful resources or do you think they are outdated and ineffective?
All those books are in my library. I find that the principles in those books to be timeless. The methods are dated and have been replaced by better methods. But the mindset and blunt language is some of the clearest writing on the subject.
It may or it may not work..but i wanted to also ask like what the scene before they end up on that position. Looks like the position is always in favor of the bjj guy. If i am going to bite i will put that on the flesh behind the elbow, its soft at for sure will hit a vein.
also, eye gouging is highly ineffective, but eye scratching is an entirely different animal, that no one will ever do a critique video on
I allow the commercials to run while I read the comments.
I hope this helps!
Thanks Tim for solid stuff I was taught by my martial arts teachers to train slow Too many people assume that you will be able to get do your move I used to hang out in bars BJJ. Kids good I trained in it But too many times I see when people go to to the ground Everyone comes in for a free kick To struggle with 1person opens you up to someone u didn't see Thanks Tim
Most of those “poke em in the eye” videos like that chick was showing are ridiculous. Don’t expect to be able to do that. At the same time I would caution a BJJ guy to think his choke is unbeatable. He can absolutely beat my thumb but he can’t beat the blade that’s going into his eye.
There’s a counter for every counter.
The only guys that really scare me are grapplers. Don't go to the ground. That's where u get stomped out.
Facts.
Self-defense is a legal concept.
Humans are funny creatures. The meanings they attach to words vary a great deal between individuals and over time. Self defence to an English person in the C17th meant killing people that were intent on doing you in or who were engaged in doing something that would do you in either now or later. It doesn't have the same meaning to most English people now, and clearly is so imprecise in the US now that Mr Larkin prefers the word 'violence'.
Violence is a word that has multiple meanings depending on context. It is possible to say something violently. Some people have taken up the idea that words themselves can now be an act of violence. What word or phrase can Mr Larkin employ next after the serviceable one for today becomes the worthless imprecise one of tomorrow?
Which leads us to the underlying problem. What people have going on in their heads and how to get them to understand the concept or idea using words or pictures that convey the concept or idea correctly and accurately?
It seems that a lot of people really don't understand the difference between 'fighting some guy or guys off after they have started mouthing off at you in the bar' and ending someone because they want to attack you and do you in. People create all kinds of weird and unnecessary rules and scenarios which they believe have to be met, or believe will somehow magically manifest if they have to use force against another human.
Mr Larkin and the TFT instructor group clearly do understand. It is endlessly fascinating following Mr Larkin's efforts to calibrate and recalibrate to effectively convey the concepts and ideas according to the feedback and videos he gets sent.
interesting, a few youtubes by 'bouncers' stating ** they've had a finger BEHIND a drunks' eyeball, and near ZERO response; ** ditto, one MMA-night-type thing, where a guys' first bout involved him getting LITERALLY blinded-- he didn''t 'catch' that, then WON his next bout that night, then lost his THIRD bout that night!!-- finally figured-out he had a problem with the eye... ** ditto, BREAKING a drunks' finger, no pain-response! ** various sports events, where serious injury incurred, but no pain-response, until hitting the showers, then LONG rehab... ** so, ya gotta get a DISABLING injury, or continue attempting to. then jail, prison, etc etc etc...
I still don’t understand why your channel doesn’t have millions of suscribers.
Is it just that we don’t want to accept the existence of violence…?
Part of it is that UA-cam does not serve up this kind of content to people who haven't searched it out.
And even if you have searched it out, if you don't subscribe UA-cam will tend to easily 'forget' you had any interest in it and not serve it up again.
But if you show any interest in cats or a variety of other anodyne stuff?
Hmm. Maybe Mr Larkin should start putting cats in his videos?
Too long winded….
Put them on the battlefield unarmed and see how well self defense works
I learned how to boogie on the mean streets...out of love, but when I was much younger.
I will take on an MMA or "trained" fighter on more occasion than I would a seasoned, scrappy street boy.
That is my experience, anyway.
This being said, I am a mover, I would NOT want to get tangled up with a well trained jiu jitsu
Scrappy street boys are usually terrible at fighting. They gang up and use weapons typically.
@@christopherrobin7776 Not when I grew up. I understand today's cowards, though
People always like cherry picking little details from every person and act like that is the entirety of the concept. Have mike tyson bite your arm and see if you get the choke lol. Small people with undeveloped mandibles aren’t good examples.
😂 vunak trained with the gracies in brasil before they even come to usa !! And what he was doing is kina mutai not just a bite !! Unintrupted bite is something else !! 😄 first you secure and you hold the target or the meet properly then adds the bite properly and all of the moves that this guy showed are good but were not against legit moves all !! 😄
I know you hate Vunak, but you got to let it go.
🧐🤔💯👌👊👍
Your Kung Fu is weak...
I was worried you’d say that…
Use a stainless-steel writing pen, not the thumb. bjj guy, hopefully you will never come across a violent criminal.
!!!!
Yeah I agree, you’re student will never go full power on you out of respect so that’s a bad example for instance Kino Mutai isn’t just bitting it’s literally ripping flesh off of the body with your teeth. There’s a whole art devoted to it and your student won’t do that. Also showing cut version’s of the technique is misleading, show it in full with proper application. It’s just about fanboying about your style which is counterproductive. One of those people on the clips actually trained Navy Seals and was doing BJJ back in the 80’s before MMA with the Gracie’s in their garage so he might know a little more than the person who put up the clip 😂
A real bite is going to take a chunk and be extremely painful and a serious poke in the eye is absolutely going to blind someone..BUT.. no one is going to find the eye while being choked.. the same as getting the teeth in..unless the attacker gets it wrong and puts his arm straight in.
I'm a bodyguard.. I have 2 boot knives, a Fox Knives low profile karambit in each pocket AND a windproof lighter available to me. Regardless of what the attacker will do, how big he is: it's game over for him.
I like your analysis and the BJJ guy isn't being realistic.