Marlin vs. Duet - The best Control System for 3D Printing
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
- There are many options for upgrading the control board on your 3D printer. Ramps based control boards running Marlin are all but standard these days. Most people think they should just get a more powerful version of their current setup, but Duet3D offers superior hardware and firmware albeit, at a higher price point. With the addition of the Duet Maestro, we now have a lower cost yet fully functional option for running RepRapFirmware on our printers.
The Duet Wifi is Idiot Proof: • How not to treat your ...
Duet Maestro, Ethernet, and Wifi Comparison chart: fitforlaunch.c...
Using Duet Maestro or WiFi with external motor drivers: duet3d.dozuki....
A good touch on the surface, would have added a lot more depth if you had further explored the schematics for each board, which would give more info on why they function that way. And probably more about the code base of Marlin vs RepRap firmware, which would reveal more about why Marlin is "preferred" over RepRap.
In fact, Marlin is more mature than RepRapFirmware. Therefore there are some features or refinements which it has that RRF does not have (Such as Live Z adjustment). Eventually RRF will have all of the features/refinements which make sense to have (there is some bloat in Marlin). The reason RRF is preferable is because it is so easy to configure for your printer. It is so easy to use, and it is so easy to upgrade your printer. Doing all these things pretty much just involves editing Macros. These Macros just consist of Gcode commands. You are already using Gcode with your 3D Printer, so you won't have to learn a programming language. There is even an online configurator which will build your Macro directory for you!
Contrast that with Marlin: If you want to configure it, or upgrade your printer, you will need to modify the base code of the firmware. You do this through the Arduino programming environment. This is a version of C++ programming language which you will have to learn. Not only that, but you will need to figure out the structure of the firmware. True, most things can be modified from the config.h file, but there are other parameters tucked away in funky locations. I've been at my wits end on multiple occasions and had to solicit help from a friend of mine who is an expert with building that firmware.
@@DesignPrototypeTest RRF does have live-z, it's called baby-steps. doh, duh, doh....
@@gnydick True enough, but my experience with baby stepping on my Tevo Little Monster wasn't stellar. So, I went looking on the duet forum and I found some possibly outdated criticism about baby stepping ( forum.duet3d.com/topic/6773/z-compensation-rules-when-it-s-on-when-it-s-off ). Most likely my problem with baby stepping can be attributed to the older Duet board I have installed in my TLM but also baby stepping does lag. This makes it difficult to use. It doesn't work as well as LiveZ on marlin, so my original critique is still valid: RRF still lacks some refinement which Marlin possesses. RRF is superior, but not perfect.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Yeah, baby-stepping isn't (wasn't) as good. I suggested to them to change it to have immediate effect. The problem was that it would wait for things in the queue to execute before taking effect. It was an issue with timing, the developer wasn't sure about accidentally causing missed steps by trying to apply a change while things were executing. He never followed up with me, but in subsequent firmware updates, it seems as though he took my suggestion because it doesn't seem to wait as long anymore. That could be a false observation though.
There are other issues with the implementation. For example, if you home your Z, then reset babysteps, the bed (or gantry) will move, but the Z-position doesn't change in the firmware, so that can lead to being at the wrong height. I'm going to actually mention that to him today, to probably change the way it's implemented.
@@gnydick WOW! That's you in the forum post that I linked. How cool is that. :)
Thanks for taking the time to pull them boards out so we could see them the time you put in explaining them is phenomenal. Thank you very much,good sir.
Great video. I have a Voron 2 with Klipper installed in a RPi+SKR1.3+TMC2209 configuration and I have no doubt that it is the best printer I ever had. Just the gantry level feature worths it. I had another printer with a Duet 2 and I can say with no doubt that it is a great board but the configuration of my Voron 2 is way better.
I was just thinking about using a teensy as a microcontroller and writing most of the firmware from scratch, just to see how far I could come. It's probably one of those projects that'll go nowhere but its funny that, right when I started to think about the possibilities, you create the perfect video about the current state of controller boards. Super helpful; thanks!
If anyone is capable of this it is you Constantijn. I always found it interesting the similarities between Repetier firmware and Marlin. Then I realized that they are essentially forks and combinations of the same original open source firmware projects which folks in the past were working on. Maybe you could find an old precursor to Marlin/Repetier and fork it for the Teensy.
i think marlin 2.0 supports teensy already. iirc, i saw the example config file.
@@DesignPrototypeTest You're flattering me too much! ☺️I was thinking of forking the current marlin version. Is there any reason not to fork the current one, other than that marlin is pretty big and therefore not as straightforward as some of the earliest versions?
@@evertchin Interesting... Will look into that. Wintersemester is almost over and then I'll have plenty of time on my hands 🙌:D
I am sure a legit Duet board is great ( although expensive ) But are you sponsored by them? I have watched a few of your videos and you really push them to the point of almost an Infomercial.
I'm not sponsored. I just really love this control board, and I never want to touch a Marlin build again. I will tell you all when/if I ever get a sponsorship. I wouldn't hide something like that.
Jerry, DPT and I rarely see eye to eye but Duet is a great board.
I agree Eddie but where I still have issues is what if you want something added to it as you need it then you are stuck waiting on them to added it as people were for Smoothie. Come to find out a lot of what people wanted wouldn't come until later boards you get to buy again but I haven't kept up on them in a couple of years due to that. Now on Marlin, or Repetier firmware you can add your own routines or tweak the routines in them as needed.
@@thebeststooge I got tired of waiting for smoothie devs to add some basic features which Marlin and Duet have and I just figured I'd add it myself, and after a few hours on the weekend I got great z-probing multi probe support working with tolerance checking -- not that hard. RRF is a bit harder to wrap your head around in terms of the underlying C code, but I've made modifications to it as well -- I now have my patch of changes I carry from build to build lol.
@@thebeststooge as @kazolar mentioned below, the RepRap Firmware that Duet runs is Open just like Marlin. its feature cycle does tend to be considerably slower though.
Would love to see an updated video of this also comparing the th3d ezboard and the skr
Just got my Duet 2 Maestro today. Booted it up connected to an Ethernet to Wifi adapter I had in a drawer. Worked great. DPT is so right! RepRap is so much better for an end user. Still have yet to install the board, waiting on the Maestro install video for the Ender 3 Pro, same as my printer. But so far, WOW. So easy. Worth the dollars.
I'm thinking about the Duet2, but I'm hung up on the ethernet vs. wifi version. It sounds like the ethernet version gives you the best of both worlds? (a simple wifi dongle gave you wifi?)
@@pfschuyler Yes. Worked like a charm! Ethernet to wifi, connected it up to my computer to configure it. Then plugged in my printer. I have been working like this for over a year now.
@@JimPBarber Thanks for the feedback. So would you say its worth it to get the Ethernet over WIFI versions? Which would be easier to manage in your opinion?
@@pfschuyler A straight wireless would be easier to manage being it would be inbuilt. Less complex for certain. However, as a network engineer I prefer the flexibility that the ethernet provides. I have setup a print farm and, within that farm I prefer ethernet for its ease of use aggregating the printers to a single switch. However, for my personal stand alone printer I utilize an ethernet to wireless adapter again for flexibility of location. So, it really depends on the application. Going from ethernet to wireless is easy and about $20.00 to 40.00 will get you wireless. To go from Wireless to Ethernet is not as simple or cheap. Also, there is the ever evolving wireless standards a/c/n/mimio etc.... I can upgrade to the latest as it evolves with ethernet easily by buying the latest ethernet to wireless adapter. Not so much with a strict wireless on the board chip that is limited to the technology it was manufactured with. But, I will say it again. Straight wireless is the more simplistic solution if you are willing to accept it's inherent limitations.
this is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you!
where is the compering of the two systems, the only thing i see is a duet fanboy?!
Thank goodness other channels tell you how to get the most out of your printer, such as the Ender3. If I followed your channel and listened to you, you would have me replace the board on my machine and spend so much more getting the same functionality I get out of it now following other you-tuber's excellent videos.
I'm only interested in the best. Other channels are welcome to this appeal to the mediocre masses. It doesn't bother me.
If you get a Chinese maestro clone (it is open hardware after all) and put it into the Ender 3 you get pretty much the same functionality and price as a MKS gen L board, trinamic stepper drivers and a Raspberry Pi with Octoprint.
@@christophmuller3511 thanks for the response, and I'll give you some honest feedback that I'll try to make constructive. I belong to a Maker community in Northern VA, (Nova Labs) and have met lots of people interested in 3D printing. Only a couple people that I've met make money in any way with their 3D printer. Most see the entry price as a barrier to justify this as a hobby. If it wasn't for the Ender 3 and it's low entry price I would not be doing 3D printing today. I want to learn and have a growing journey, if you pull me too hard then I won't appreciate it. I know that I may eventually outgrow this printer and want something better or larger. But I love tinkering and seeing how far I can take this printer and get as much functionality and as many features I can cram onto that default board, until the next thing I want to do no longer fits. Then will consider a better board or a better printer altogether, but I need to know where I'm going and why. If I got an Ender 3, then I'm already not going for the best. So your video contradicts itself and that's the reason I feel you don't get me. Maybe I'm not your target audience. My sincere 2cents.
@@DesignPrototypeTest If you are aiming for the best and looking down to the 'mediocre masses' with this high nose attitude, you should at least be well informed before posting a lot of incorrect stuff on your channel.
Just to mention a few:
1. You can run a delta on marlin with a Trigorilla and a 12864 graphics controller. I do. And if you are not happy with the maximum achievable print speed, you still can go for Klipper (which also supports this display. Running it on my ender 3 with mks GEN 1.4 btw.)
2. If you want to stick to compare apples with apples, for a cheap Wi-Fi connection, you don't use a raspberry, you use an ESP-01 for 2-5 dollars and install ESP3D on it. It's attached to the internal serial port with 3 wires.
3. Klipper runs on duet 2 boards. The example config is there since 3 months.
Regards from one from the mediocre masses.
Jorge Jimenez this is not my video. But to give you my perspective: I also run an Ender 3 and I quickly realized that I would run into the flash size limits on the original board if I would do a few updates. Also, as the printer is not running in a separate room I wanted trinamic drivers to make it as silent as possible. That pretty much sealed the deal of going with a new board. I could have gone for a MKS gen L, an Arduino Mega clone + ramps or similar - the maestro just seemed more future proof and it delivered.
This basically just comes across to me like bashing non-Duet boards and then talking about Duet boards.
If you gave a car enthusiast a smart car and a Ferrari, ans asked him to compare the two, which one do you think he would talk about more?
@@DesignPrototypeTest smart.
The worst part about installing octopi (octoprint) on your pi is remembering to change the keyboard layout first thing before you are forced to change the wifi password so you can connect.. If you didn't then it would load the USA keyboard in linux when it saw yours and then your password won't work because you did the setup with the euro keyboard settings. I hope they fixed that bug but it used to make you have to just start from scratch every time.
If someone thinks installing octoprint is complicated they probably shouldn't get into 3d printing.
It's possible to suck at software installation, and be really good at thinking like a mechanical machine (able to troubleshoot a 3D Printer). Given the improved state of our slicer programs these days knowing g-code, and being able to program or install operating systems with command line editing is not a necessary skill to be successful at 3D Printing.
I can't imagine anyone who can't follow the simple instructions to install Octoprint, would ever be able to learn to use a reasonable CAD program...so they probably shouldn't bother.
@@robertsilvers5807 it's really not bad. All you need to do is take the SD card out of your pi put it in your computer and change get the text in a single file to get it on wifi. I don't remember the file name but there are tutorials.
@@robertsilvers5807 dude, download the OctoPie SD image. Burn, done...that's hard?
@@DesignPrototypeTest who said this was an OfficeJetPro experience? This is a learning experience. OOB printing is the 1 gcoge model on the MSD. Else you've gained the lab club. PATIENTS, read the forums, some EBooks... The curve is same as noob Windows, OSX, LINUX, BSD (there is a very ROBUST OS) not a noob thing. Truth, stop making things up on the fly.
this is excellent, thank you! now to find those board in my neck of the woods
if you have a neck in the woods, you can't get it.
Raspberry pi 3 runs 64 bit arm btw. Your 2nd duet board does not jave wifi so that 20 price differance is not taking into account loseing wifi. So the mks board + pi is the clear winner unless you want to run a Delta or you are hopeless at useing the find all function on your text editor. I know you love these duet boards and other western parts but please try just a bit harder to be a bit less bias.
Where's the bias? A select few of you keep accusing me of this. The idiot-proof design of the Duet boards running seamlessly integrated firmware on a 32 bit processor make the Duet boards superior. The firmware is so much easier to use and modify it's unreal. It's not even a comparison. If it weren't for the fact that Marlin is the mature industry standard we wouldn't even be having this discussion. I really believe Duet is the future. 95% of users couldn't modify a Marlin build successfully if their life depended on it. That is why there are so many videos teaching how to do it, but in the end all these users just get a pre-made version of the firmware and upload it to their printer. Go watch my older videos when I actually used Marlin. I am capable of getting it to work, but I choose not to because I don't like to be frustrated time and time again. Regular users shouldn't be mucking about with the underlying source code of the firmware. Macros are the future.
Regarding $20 more for the Maestro but you lose the WiFi so it can't be compared: You can still network into the printer, it just has to be connected with a CAT5 cable. If you remove the WiFi capability (disconnect the Pi) from the 8bit boards you are reduced to the SD card, or a direct USB connection to a computer. If you shut off or disconnect the computer the print is lost.
Rewatch the first few minutes of your video. You immediatly start to trash marlin and gloss over what the pi and octoprint actully bring to the table. It is much later in the video that you mention any short comings of the deut offerings. Give honest pros and cons of each up front. Give each a fair shake in the video. Not spend the vast majority of the video on only one side of the completion, or change the name of the vieo to why you should use a duet board. Actully comparing some of the other 32 bit options wouod be nice as well.
Those deut boards my be awesome but they are also expensive. Not the most viable option for people with very cheap printers like the ender 3. That expenss is also all in one shoot. The other option alows a person with a budget to piece together a part at a time to expend/improve capabilities. Both marlin and octoprint have solid premade set uos availible for those unwilling/unable to both with editing the firmware. That is the bonus to marlin being so widely availible. Eventually riprap may get common enough for the same to be said about it, but the fact is at this point it is not.
To answer the lan side, a cord is a cord is a cord it is still not wireless and that does need to be factored in.
@@galihad1980 octoprint is kinda trash though. its unreliable and actually makes your printer even slower with more artifacts than printing from sd card... i could see an argument for pi & ramps using klipper would be the best cheap option but it isnt the easiest upgrade to do. the extra money for a duet is honestly worth it over a marlin + octoprint build. i've used marlin on 8 bit and marlin 2 on 32 bit, smoothieboards, and duets. the duets are the best. hands down. easiest to customize, hardest to break, Amazing UI, fastest file uploading.
It does depend on what people are trying to do though. A lot of people don't have the money. However I would say it is better to save up than to spend money now on an "upgrade". the difference between 60 dollars an 160 isnt that much if you save for 3 to 6 month. if you cant save 30 to 15 dollars a month, then buying a printer is honestly a horrible decision and you should find a cheaper hobby, look into contracting out 3d printers, or see if your local library or university will let you use theirs. owning a printer is expensive. having an unreliable printer is not only more expensive, its also dangerous.
MKS boards are total trash ... bad quality
@@DesignPrototypeTest Marlin is a PITA. I just bought an Anet A8+. I wasn't happy with the extruder so I ordered a Titan Aero. Of course you can't use it until you update the firmware. Since this is a fairly new version of the printer, there is no documentation or tutorials on it. I googled and fiddled, and googled and fiddled only to get errors while compiling in Arduino. I bricked the board twice before I quit. Install the Duet, set the configuration, and I'm up and running.
Marlin is being forked to 32 bits. Marlin V2 will be 32 bit.
I've had the one click=two problem on Marlin with the Rep-Rap smart controller (4x20 LCD), and was able to fix it in the firmware. The problem has to do with the way that the encoder works, some of those switch type encoders go though one cycle per detent, some go though two. That is if one output, or two outputs change between detents. Marlin has a #define statement in the source to set this, if RepRap Firmware has a gcode to do the same, then it can be fixed without making a change in the source code and rebuilding the firmware.
You can do better for around 60 USD. I have BIQU SKR 1.1 (there's newer version 1.3) 32 bit board with 5x DRV8825 for around 25USD + Raspberry Pi with Octoprint (regularly updated with many plugins and raspi can be simultaneously used for other purposes). With 5x TMC2208 instead of DRV8825 it's around 40USD. Since it has swapable drivers, you can even go with top-of-the-line TMC5160 drivers in SPI mode (one costs around 16USD) and still have better price than Duet.
Don't take me wrong - if you need something on professional level (especially if you need board with good reliability and support), than go ahead and buy Duet. But for hobbyist it's overkill with very little advantage and some very real drawbacks.
I bought a raspberry pi 3 for $25 and use my stock board. Took about 15mins to install octoprint. Its so much better with octoprint no more microSD cards yay!!!
I was using a $5 raspberry pi zero w! 😂😂
Even better. I used the pi 3 So I can octolapse and view the printer over the network without delay. Also built in Wifi. I think the Duet is unnecessary and overkill to put a $200 board on a $300 printer...lol
@@cutty02 most people think so.. until they experience a Duet board first hand
Screw the features how well does it print. My prints already come out nearly perfect. Is that board going to add quality to my prints over my mks sbase?
@@cutty02 yes. 32 but boards increase processing power which means you can print the same or higher quality at higher speeds. More accurate curves and all movements that normally big down an 8 bit board and sometimes would cause a print to visibly lag while it waits for commands from the board. Especially on Delta's where the mathematics are much more complex. As well as being quiter vs 8 bit boards due to better motor driver control.
The creality display will work, you just have to make your own wiring harness. The pins are all there they're just in different places cause manufacturers haven't decided on an appropriate standard
Do you have it working like that, and if yes, would there be a link to the wire setup?
@@llejk Not Currently on a duet but I have an anet a8 display working with a melzi board, the process is simple just find the schematics and match the pins to one another. The creality files can be found on the github cause its open source.
Klipper reigns supreme! It'd be hard to go back to marlin lol
klipper really is the best option
The quality of this content is so high; no fluff, no bullshit, just the important things. Well organized. Thank you :)
You are welcome.
I think an even more interesting (and more balanced) comparison would actually be between a rPI+Ramps/SKR Klipper setup vs a Duet setup. They both run basically the same software and feature basically the same awesome web interface (from what I gather, Klipper runs a more frequently updated version), they both have excellent connectivity for multiple steppers and accessories, but a Klipper setup seems to have some advantages (freedom to choose the stepper drivers, lower cost, support for OctoPrint - even though Octoprint is kind of superfluous with these two setups)
With its current hardware on board i wouldnt say the Duet wifi is "overbuilt" for 3d printing. It doesnt have the power to handle a USB camera, or even uploading of files during printing process as ALL the processing power gets put into running the mathematics of the printing process. Further updates are supposted to address this so you wouldnt need a pi on top of a duet to run timelapses for example directly thru the duet board.
"It doesnt have the power to ... uploading of files during printing process" This is wrong. I just double checked and uploaded a new .gcode file to the Duet WiFi while it was in the middle of a print.
I already run a DSLR camera directly through my Duet to achieve Octolapse like photography: ua-cam.com/video/CwHVQ81GfXw/v-deo.html
This video is misleading. I was looking for an in depth analysis as suggested by the title and you basically just gave an opinion. A 32 bit micro is faster, but if it's running additional code for the fancy functions you are wasting those resources and you don't necessarily get a better basic 3D printer control ( Ethernet communication can take a lot of run time).
This is just the surface of the differences: basically prices, main specs and your opinion. I would have liked to hear why running a Duet board makes your prints better, other than you need 32 bits for a Delta (which is known, but if the MCU only runs the basic 3D printer control btw).
Another topic not thoroughly discussed is the ability to upgrade drivers. That's often overlooked, and believe me, I know the cost of that thanks to the Smoothieboard V1.0 that I bought some time ago that has a 32 bit MCU but it's also obsolete because drivers are soldered on.
I haven't looked into the differences between Reprap and Marlin and would have liked to hear more than "Reprap is better"
I like your videos and as an opinion this would be ok, but I think it's dangerous to mislead people that don't know about SW or electronics, because they will think they "need" a duet for their printer to print better, but there's no evidence of that (at least on this video).
Any response on this? I was just thinking the same thing, does this give you better prints? I recently fried one of the drivers on my stock printer and need a new board as it is built in to the board. All of these expand-ability options are null and void if all you're doing is using a 3d printer, is that right?
@@Theycallmeernie88 Not really. After doing my own research, I did ended up buying the Duet Maestro. Here's my reasoning to go that route:
Firmware - You have basically 3 options: RepRapFirmware, Marlin or Smoothieware
Marlin has been around for a long time its what most 8 bit printers run, but trying to cover all possible HW configs is challenging and I think is starting to become too convoluted. Marlin 2.0 should address some of that but it hasn't been out long enough to have enough evidence that it works well
Smoothieware started as a good idea and has some good features, but a toxic dev environment seems to be holding it back to achieve it's potential
RepRapFirmware seems to be actively developed and having only a few HW variants to care about makes it easier to maintain. The developer is very involved and seems to care about issues and very supportive
None of this is an objective evaluation, for that I would have to have the 3 boards and time to benchmark firmware performance (which I don't). I plan on analyzing RRF performance once I have my board (% of CPU utilization or something like that)
HW - There's several options here, but the lack of simple solutions is what turned me away from Marlin 2.0
Re-arm 3 level sandwich (board, ramps, drivers) seems complicated and will not fit on my Ender 5 enclosure. I like the modularity but I feel they should have integrated ramps with the processing board to make a compact solution that only needs additional drivers
The Azteeg X5 Mini is a cool board and has exchangeable drivers, wifi and it's $113 with drivers, the issue is that it runs smoothieware, which I don't consider the best firmware at the moment due to the reasons mentioned above
Duet 2 Wifi great board but it's over engineered for 3d printing and has older generation drivers (does not support stealth chop 2)
The Duet 2 Maestro has the newest drivers with stealth chop 2, Ethernet port and 32 bit arm core, although that M4 doesn't have an FPU, it should be more than enough... but I can only confirm that once I have it and have a chance to test it
To be honest, I don't think there's a perfect solution out there currently, but I think the Maestro is the one that comes ahead, even if it's by a little bit (in my opinion and based on the things I value the most: Realiability, Expandibility, Quiet Drivers and good firmware).
@ hey I really appreciate your findings on this. Thank you and best of luck to you!
"Ethernet communication can take a lot of run time." BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No. No, there is no way that a direct wire connection slamming 1Gb per second is going to have any trouble saturating the working RAM on an ARM SOC. It takes longer for an RPi to write a print job to the SD card than it does for a job to get from my PC to the RPi. If the Arduino and ARM processor are on different boards (RPi-to-RAMPS), then you have a bit of latency during execution, but not enough for the Atmega hamster wheel to notice. The RPi will keep the Arduino RAM full just fine. Most modern 32-bit SOCs are violently overpowered for feeding jobs from an SD card to a subprocessor. And they won't struggle running a web interface, unless they are an RPi0.
@@chooseymomschoose Have you implemented a full Ethernet stack on an ARM core? I have (10 years as auto industry embedded SW engineer) and I can tell you that the Ethernet stack takes a considerable amount of runtime, not just RAM (which BTW I didn't even mention if you read carefully :) ). You seem to be talking about something else entirely, the speed of the connection and what part in the architecture would be the bottleneck. Just in case I wasn't clear. My concern was (when I wrote that comment) that upgrading to a 32 bit ARM core would be seen as the magic bullet to alleviate the processing bottleneck on the arduino based boards without carefully considering what features to add so that you don't end up with the same bottlenecking problem from adding to many new features to the new MCU.
This video provides no technical details about why an ARM 32bit MCU is better, it simply states an opinion "Duet boards are better because they are newer". Since reading that comment I've done extensive research on the Duet boards and I believe they are the best solution at the moment. It seems that they have a dedicated Ethernet transceiver that would take care of all the protocol implementation which would free the main 32bit ARM core for only the printer functionality, which is why that board would be better (If my understanding of this Ethernet transceiver is correct). If the stack implementation is done on the ARM core, my initial concern would still be valid.
Unfortunately, I haven't seen any metrics on core % utilization in the industry in general, so my comments are really just an educated guess from my experience in developing embedded SW on similar platforms.
After many many many years of using Ramps and marlin, i am also think of doing the switch from Ramps to Duet and Reprap firmware. it really does do it all!
Raspberry PI + Ramps + Arduino ... may still be the biggest bang for buck.
@@KrustyKlownBang for bucks yes, however, Reprap firmware does not run on ramps! hens why the switch to the duet is looking more likely. if you just want a 3d printer Marlin is more then capable, but if your building a all in one machine, ( printer, CNC, PCB milling, laser,) there are a lot of CAM g-codes and M-codes are not found in Marlin but they are in Reprap firmware.
@@patprop74 OK, great information, thanks for explaining those advantages.
If your setup has a bundled Pi running octoprint, there is no reason not to run klipper. The only downside if that klipper isnt intuitive for a newbie. You really have to read the github docs that seems to be all over the place. But man... when its setup, updating configurations is a breeze and you can get some amazing speeds out of an old ATmega - 8 bit processor.
I'm constantly amazed with the design of all of (or most of, haven't looked at all of the schematics yet) these boards that you are one cheap fet away from burning your house down. Any board that feeds the 12v or 24v directly to the hot end heater or the bed heater and switches it on and off with a fet to ground, has no way of stopping it if the fet shorts (which they do). I have fixed several boards now from branded and non-branded printers with shorted high current fets in these spots. Had the owners not been there at the time, results would have been tragic.
The designs should have at least a high end as well as a low end switch as just relying on one fet and software is useless in this case.
The SKR Mini E3 with TMC2209 $45 may not have Wifi but an added BIQU TFT35 3.5in V3.0 $35 Touchscreen has a Wifi Socket $10 for the wifi board. Blows them out of the water. Super quiet and is plug and play on any 3d printer.
Ok. It's inexpensive, But what can you do with that WiFi socket? Marlin has no WiFi functionality. I doubt the TFT is running Octoprint. It's always some proprietary Chinese interface that is not open source. Can you even upload a g-code file to that screen? You certainly can't manipulate your firmware build wirelessly like you can do with the Duet. So your printer can be called "WiFi" but it is completely non functional because of software.
@@DesignPrototypeTest actually the TFT35 can handle printing remotely through an app on a phone, upload prints and control printer functions. It has a 32bit onboard processor and has micro SD and usb connection. Everything is controlled through the touchscreen not through the marlin on the skr. And additional 2x UART connections. Also runout detection and remote power on/off. And yes it is open source through bigtreetech.
>...on a phone...
Right, because everyone is always slicing their 3D prints on their phone. That incredibly inconvenient. You make/download the geometry on you PC/Mac. Then you slice it on your PC/Mac, then you somehow upload it to your phone, wait for it to upload. Then you upload it to your printer, wait for it to upload, then you can press print on your phone? Or do you have to initiate the print from the SKS screen? What's the point of having a TFT screen if you are using your phone to control the printer? This process sounds like it is is anything but polished and pleasant to use for the user.
@@DesignPrototypeTest one you can't slice on octoprint either. It's the same process. You upload to Octoprint to print on your printer. If you have pre-sliced files they can just be uploaded and still monitor on a wifi cam on Astroprint or any other compatible app. It has the same functionality as octoprint. And is cheaper! PS if i have my laptop with me anywhere in the world i can just direct upload to the tft which turns on the printer prints and auto shutoff and also monitors filament runout.. Same as if you where using a octoprint.
What do you think of the Skr 32 bits board... the 1.4 turbo for exemple?
The problem i have is that i "upgraded" both of my creality printers with duet after the stepper driver broke on one of them, and i had nothing but problems with them.
The lesson i kinda got from that is that duet is kinda good for beginner (like an apple kinda deal) that has its whole ecosystems, but if you have a problem, than you get shafted.
I dont know if that is true exactly, but i feels like it.
You are going to love duet3 version.
You can buy a MKS Gen-L and TNC2208's for just under $33 (AliExpress) + $10 for a Pi Zero W = $43
The price really isn't at all comparable.
Great to see you get back on topic.
As I do own a delta with ramps and a graphic display, I can definitely says it works. However it is indeed pushing the boundaries of the mega 2560 combined with UBL and other features.
I miss the direct impact on a print quality using the different boards. You're just comparing price to specs. The specs of the board are not everything, a duet won't do miracles. It's the weakest link in the chain of hardware and software that determines the print quality. A duet won't make your printer's frame stiffer or tighten your gt2 belts. Do a board comparison on a printer please, not on a blanket.
Try this on your delta: Through a USB interface, use GCode commands to move the printer so it is at the first layer height of .2mm (G0 Z0.2). Now move the print head to one side of the Bed (G0 X-100). Now, rapidly move the print head to the other side of the bed (G0 X100 F300). What happens? Does the nozzle drag on the bed? This was my experience, and I attributed the behavior to a lack of processing power. The board can't compute the movements fast enough to keep up with the printer, and so it moves in an arc instead of a straight line in plane with the bed.
@@DesignPrototypeTest I print standard with a 0.1 layer height (also for the first layers, a great solution for getting prints to stick btw) and never use 0.2 layers actually. At 0.1 is doesn't scrape the bed.
The hotend being unable to move straight is caused by the same issue causing it to hit the bed. If you ran out of computing power, the line wouldn't be an arc as well. But just don't go over 32 microsteps for a delta, its more than enough to get good prints. I actually use the cheaper and reliable a4988, but combined with 0.9 degree steppers.
Some feasible tips to get your (and others their) delta better if you haven't (done) them yet: Use optical endstops, use a mechanical probe (doesn’t have to be a bltouch, I use a spring loaded hex key with an optical endstop) and divide your bump speed when homing and probing by factor of 10 or more. By going slow here, you increase accuracy a lot by making your mega2560 relative 10x times faster here (that’s duet speed ;p). Homing and calibrating a delta is a much more delicate then a cartesian, so don't rush it.
More probing points are better of course.
Don't use the rods with bearings, they suck. (see ua-cam.com/video/5G8GdNywsUQ/v-deo.html at 0.59 for the extreme play). Use magnetic rods instead. They are just a pleasure to use, you can use different effectors, have zero play and no they never come lose unwanted, the bigger 12mm balls I use although.
Less feasible, avoid linear rails and rods for the towers, you can't tighten these like wheels on rails, so if they have play, you're screwed, some friction is also required for a delta, the effector shouldn't fall down.
Delta's are great machines, but there is a catch on almost every aspect. and a single catch is enough to ruin your print quality.
Don't get me wrong, a duet is the best choice for upgrading the board I found out myself as well, which I will likely do this summer or so ,as I'm pushing my printer hard. But I don't think you should buy a duet or any other board to solve medium or large problems like bed leveling, Their are more affordable ways and other aspects of your printer that are more likely to be the weakest link of the chain and causing the fault. You should buy it to further improve an already decent printer and for the convenience of using the reprapfirmware. But I aint gonna stop you if just homing in under 5 seconds is worth a €160 to you.
Agree ! My Anycubic Kossel with a 12846 Display runs.. hitting these Comand in a row ... G1 X0Y60Z0 F4000 G1X-52Y-30Z0 F4000 G1X52Y-30Z0 F4000 it just works without Problems .. @Design Prototype Test maybe your Kossel is not set correctly .. there so many Options .. have you test them all ?
Don't you think that Duet WiFi or Maestro for cheap, chinese printer is a bit overkill? I know it's a great board but not everybody needs all of the features. To be perfectly honest I don't want to connect my printer to network, I don't care about WiFi and since it's not that hard to upload Marlin preconfigured for specific printer and the print quality doesn't change - there is no need going all out with Duet.
I've actually moved from an MKS gen L to an octoprint pi zero w setup into a klipper setup (for 5/7 bucks I'd recommend the octoprint, not klipper+octo setup) but finally moved to a duet about a year and a half ago and it's SO MUCH BETTER. but I bought the full price for the almost brand new (later revision with the fuses) duet back then (with the price of my printer I could have gotten a prusa at that price) and I'd still recommend the upgrade. the software's gcode-based settings are so much better and the bed leveling literally makes the device hands-free to start if you keep the nozzles clean or get an automated nozzle scrub on the side.
Been running octoprint with reprap for years with no issues... Using OrangePi Zero to run Octoprint. Whole system is about $10. Running knockoff $60 Duet boards with a couple of these printers; one is an Ender 3. You do need to install the correct plugins for reprap on the settings page.
At 25:03, should be really easy to fix for any seasoned developer as I've built projects with a continuous knob and was able to find code snippet that worked perfectly without error!
Hai DriverSteve, Is there any tips or link for integrating to a 20 x 4 lcd screen (lcd 2004). I'm new and wanted to get a duet. But I'm not sure if it's possible?
The very best content on you tube. Knowledge is power. You share it better than anyone.
Thank you.
A lot of very good information here but also some very bad misinformation fed by your bias in favor of the Duet family and unmodified RepRap firmware. It's a bit incongruous to say that the Raspberry Pi is more powerful than the Pi Zero workout specifying which hardware revision of each. RepRap firmware is far from limited to running on Duets and has many features which are unavailable on that hardware; it also lacks just as many stable features available on Marlin as vice versa. Marlin, despite your rhetoric, is not in any way limited to 8 bit control boards and has been as stable in 32-bit as RepRap for a considerable period of time, for what that's worth with either firmware. The RAMPS 1.4 (most popular revision) interface board was originally developed for RepRap but now works with at least four major firmwares, as I recall. It was also developed for 8 or 16 bit controllers, true, but works just as well with 32 bit controllers (different pin mappings cause a few incompatibilities, but the remaining features see significant improvement in effectivity). Klipper is designed to run on Raspberry Pi but the developer has publicly expressed interest in having it run on controller boards and has successfully tested it that way on at least one 32-bit board. He has also successfully run it on a Pi to control 32-bit boards the same way as is done for 8-bit boards. Those tests are both from over a year ago.
Thank you very much for sharing your acquired information and your opinions, and please don't be too offended by my choice to correct a few details.
Duet 2 Ethernet version, paneldue 7i touchscreen, precision piezo bed height system, on a Tevo Little Monster Delta Monster for a year now and am thrilled!
StealthChop2 works flawlessly IMO.... running it on 2 printers with zero issues right now.... the original StealthChop on the 2100,2130s have issues with skipping
Where did you set the threshold to fallback to spread cycle? Mine is at 110mm/s, works well enough that I'm considering upping it to 140mm/s for silent fast moves.
@@tistione running them in legacy mode, no uart. i was just running 80mm/s on an ender 3 with not 1 missed step.
im actually wiring up my corexy now... built that one for speed and accuracy. plan to print around 100mm/s.... I have another corexy im designing/building now and theyll both have duets so i wont really be able to test the stealth chop at higher speeds which is a bit disappointing
hmm. Well the MKS équivalent of the duet should be the MKS Robin : 32 bits with built in wifi. I got one for a year and it works great for under 40 bucks. You also have the MKS Sbase, 32 bits under smoothieware but with DRV8825 drivers inside, at a reasonable price too.
I thought there were issues with the MKS robin. isn't it proprietary?
It is, as is everything from MKS, proprietary and the shank in your ribs is that they derived their stuff from open source hardware/firmware. When we brought up the fact that they are closed source using open source (over on the reprap forum) they said they didn't want their work stolen. Basically they don't want to happen to them what they themselves did AND previous versions of the sbase had some really bad issues that people in the reprap community solved for them. If it were me I would pay more for a completely open source product so fixes are always happening when, or if, needed.
@@cutty02 I was one of the firsts western MKS boards owners back in time. According to the price tag, people (hoaxed by western manufacurers lobbies) pretended the quality was the lowest, and the boards will burn your house within hours. Surprizingly the MKS boards owners did not had the same feedback. The low coper PCB and the overall built quality revealed to be pretty descent. Since, the rare (according to the huge production that folowed) issues was mostly because of the use of low gauge wiring by entry level 3d printer manufacturers. Despite the bashing, like your comment, MKS became a giant board manufacturer, and actually their boards represents often the best value for money. I own several MKS boards 8 and 32 bits with no noticeable issues. At the fablab I repair a bunch of 3D printers kits per year, and when I discover a MKS board inside it's usually not to blame.
Yes, the Robin is proprietary, and I will tell later about this. But that makes absolutely no difference for the user. Robin is a good board and a good firmware, probably the best from MKS yet. This is fast and easy to setup. Actually, I see no reason to boycot the Robin, except bad-faith ethics.
@@thebeststooge There's a lot of myths here. First, as you should know, the MKS members was early active members of the reprap community in China. The first MKS board was the Gen, developed in response of the 5USD Ramps which was the worst quality ever, with a huge number of issues from catchin fire to miss of components ! MKS proposed a decent quality All in One board for less than the price of arduino and Ramps clone bundle, with a bonus second built in extruder. The western Ramps manufacturers started to sweet because the board was better than theirs at an unbeatable price, and a strong bashing starts. They claimed the board was not open source (obviously it was : all the sources was on Github, PCB and so, no repeating of what's already in the arduino and ramps which are documented enough yet). Then MKS produced a working version of the overpriced Smoothieboard for its real value price : the MKS Sbase (with sources still available on Github). Things gone even worst. See historic on Reprap's wiki : Arthur Wolf the developer of Smoothieware deleting systematically and arbitrary any information about MKS. No surprise as he was one of the early bashers. As an user, i feel very uncomfortable about that, because you cannot hijack the information because of commercial purpose, pretending about ethics. The Robin is not copyright for commercial purpose, this is in response of the stupid harassment of a bunch of self-proclamed guardians. Those people forget the Reprap movement stolen everything from Stratasys when the copyright of fdm technology falled into the public domain. And now they don't want their open source used ? This is pittyfull. I have another idea of copyleft which allows anyone to push it one step further, and offering boards at real value price is one of the improvements for the final user.
Last argument, but not least : Prusa's printers are not open source since the MK2. Yep, there's no BOM and the magnetic bed sources are not published. Was Jo Prusa bashed or banished from the Reprap's wiki for heretismus ? Not at all ! Jo is not alone : what about Ultimaker ? A lot started opensource then turned copyright to sustain the growth. Who am I to juge ? Actually who cares about open source for boards ? How many people will spend more money to build their own than to buy one ? Probably none. People wants quality boards at reasonable price. So they may consider MKS's.
The reprap movement was great but it is dying slowly : as reprapstuff became businesses. Yes this is no open source funding any more, for most of the projects. The thrill is gone.
Well, when you take something from open hardware source then close it the reprap people consider you scummy to say the least. Prusa uses RAMBO now so I think that is closed source so he had to go close source on that but I no longer own any of his printers so I do not know.
MKS gen L +4 2208 55€
Duet wifi 229€
At 4 times the price it better be a lot better
Duet 2 wifi cloned - 49 €. Works great.
Go figure.
@@ZhuJo99 Where have you found that deal ?!
ESP32, microSD, a pair of level converters, and a RAMPS board. $30, WiFi printing.
Ok. Can you monitor and change temperature fan speed etc on the fly while printing? Can you do it through a clean interface in your web browser? Can you upload another print to the board while still in the middle of your print? Can you close down that connection and open a new connection to the printer with your cellphone where you can also do all these things? Can you modify firmware settings easily from your cellphone? Can you make custom buttons that have your printer do complex series of movements/commands?
@@DesignPrototypeTest Yes, about as well as you could on a $30,000 Haas CNC display, except you don't have to walk over to a display. The ESP32 presents a web for uploading jobs, queuing jobs, displaying stats, and a g-code web console interface. What you now do from the LCD display, you could be doing from your phone. At the grocery store. You can add an LCD to the ESP32, but why bother? It's easier to do the same things with a Pi, but an ESP32 does it well, cheaper, and in real time. There are several projects on Github for ESP32 and RAMPS boards if you're curious. I grabbed an early one and added the features I wanted. The beauty of Open Source...
I was comparing it to the Duet Wifi with also does all these things. From your description I wouldn't be surprised if the Duet WiFi used this same module. It also sounds like a lot of work. I think I'll wait until some has more thoroughly developed this hardware/software before I abandon the Duet. From yours and other's comments it appears that Duet will face some stiff competition in the coming years.
@@DesignPrototypeTest I don't blame you. Nothing about this technology is ready for Home Depot yet.
@@Giblet535 "Yes, about as well as you could on a $30,000 Haas CNC display, except you don't have to walk over to a display." I was thinking the same thing.
Man thank you for letting me know off Klipper
Hi, you can use the Ender 3 lcd with the maestro - either by using two cables with the additional two connectors flipped over or by making your own split cable for the maestro board. Relevant forum thread where I added an easy howto for the split approach: forum.duet3d.com/topic/7609/configuring-12864-lcd-on-maestro/65
Thank you!
I have a bit of a confusion as to the point of putting a high end electronics into cheap Chinese printers. Here is my take -- I built a quad independ extruder printer -- large format with a build area of about 550mm cubed depending on how many tools are active in the print. I was ONLY able to build it on the Duet platform, and at that I have my own firmware modifications to expand to 16 steppers. That machine is a very high end machine, where the cost of electronics is along the lines of 5-10% of the total build cost. I'm currently upgrading a 3 color mixing delta with a duet maestro (for a friend), again the cost of the electronics there is about 10% of the printer -- it's a $1000 machine with a diamond hotend with crap electronics, so the upgrade there makes sense. What you are suggesting is using duet boards, as awesome as they are on machines where the rest of the hardware doesn't warrant it. Your delta, yes absolutely, creality machines -- NO. Get a pi3 or a pi zerow with octoprint , and be done with it. There are plenty of videos on how to add a z-probe to existing electronics on the creality machines without sacrificing anything.
Did you ever get your Ender 3 pro upgraded? I was thinking of doing the same duet 2 upgrade to my Ender 3 pro. The original board went bad after 2 weeks. However I do not need the WiFi. Wanting to use the Maestro and use the original Ender 3 pro screen! Thanks!
Yes. Here is the latest video in that series ua-cam.com/video/qXUtxt61Ae0/v-deo.html Also, I'm nearly done with an entirely new build installing a Maestro into an Ender 3 Pro.
Design Prototype Test thanks I am looking forward to it!
It always seems that folks always look at the price over performance. I have found its a pay me now or later game. Go for what’s going to make your experience better and have superior performance. Thanks for the video
I´m looking at an SKR 1.1 Pro right now for dual extruder set up. 32 bit ST ARM processor, plenty of processing power there.
I´ll be running with that soon in an ender 5. It also has an ESP Wifi module connector,
if I ever want to connect my printer in my network, it´s kinda gimmicky, it takes hours for a print, not seconds like paper printers.
Perfect timing!! I just ordered a Maestro for my Ender 3, so I’ll be following along!!
Bell clicked!
What I don't get is that you keep mentioning trinamic drivers like you absolutely need them, but in fact, they are just something nice to have.
DRV8825 does just fine for 2$ each. That takes the price of the board down to 17+10 = 27$.
Then use a Pi 0 W, use USB webcam, only upload to SD card to print, with a bit of pain at low speed, you can get it going at as low as $15 for the wireless.
That adds up to 42$, about 1/3 of the price of the duet board.
Please be fair when doing comparison videos, there are options and people needs to know.
But in fact, it's just something nice to have,
My experience with DRV8825 drivers was not great. They wine like crazy and skipped steps. Also they tend to leave salmon skin artifacts to a much greater extent than the A4988 drivers. For these reasons, I don't consider 8825s to be a viable option. There is a reason so many printers still come with the A4988 drivers instead of the similar priced DRV8825 chips. It's all about dependable performance. Here is some copy pasta from someone else's comment over on Thomas Sanladerer's website:
DRV8825 either work fine or are a pain. They skip steps and whine with motors with low voltage and/or low inductance. The diode circuit solves this for some people, but not for others. There are a lot of poorly-made clone DRVs out there with the incorrect vref circuit, so you end up measuring motor voltage and not vref. Genuine from Watterott/Filastruder seem the best bet. If DRVs work for your motors then goodo. If your motors use less than 3V or are less than 4mH you'll probably have a bad time.
@@DesignPrototypeTest My DRV8825s have worked just fine, I simply buy from the seller with the highest rating, haven't encountered clones with incorrect circuitry.
In your case, A4988 is even cheaper ($1) and is still capable of pushing what ender 3 needs, the total price goes down to $37.
I personally don't care about the downside of DRV8825 at all as I almost exclusively print mechanical parts and printers are in a dedicated room. Just because something didn't work for your case, doesn't mean they are not an option for other people, that's especially important when making an informational and educational comparison video.
@@huchengguo3004 Yep, but it's his party. So he can speak the way he sees fit. Freedom of speech....
So can you, but be fair....
Highest rated seller doesn't equal best quality, nor customer service.
The Duet people are very passionate in supporting their users. Most highest rated sellers only passionate about earning money without ever refunding.
Most of those are Chinese BTW, coincidence?
Hucheng Guo idk man, once I went to trinamic drivers I’ll NEVER go back to a4988 or drv drivers.... the difference is truly night and day
@@theovannieuwenhuizen5756 That's not about freedom of speech, it about unbiased opinion, but I don't think he made that disclaimer anyway, so that's fair too. (some comment said this vid is sponsored by duet?)
Highest rated/most sold seller ensures you get the correct product, not a faulty one. In this case, it ensures you get the one with correct Vref. I don't know where you got the experience of not refunding, they usually straight up refund with no question asking and no return required.
Yeh because feeding a Chinese family is cheaper than feeding a Westen one, simple as that. Nothing to do with the board.
So instead of a standalone 3d printer, you pay extra to dedicate a whole computer to running your printer? All to save plugging in a Micro SD card?
I use a SDcard extender to place the SD card next to the control panel - $2 each to improve usability.
Since I have 3 different 3d printers, does that mean I can only use 1 at a time with octoprint?
I can understand replacing boards for quality issues, but most of what you mention as benefits (wifi, octaprint etc ) are useless for most people.
Most people will only print in one color using PLA. They will download the geometry from Thingiverse, or similar, and the stock Ender 3 will serve them just fine. So, you are correct the benefits I talked about are not needed by most people. Then again, most people only need a 2nd hand Toyota Camry but we all want a Tesla or a BMW don't we? Anyone who wants to upgrade their printer with features such as auto bed leveling, a high temperature hotend with Thermocouple, Sending prints through the network instead of an SD card, etc. will find it MUCH easier to do these things on the Duet. The fact that the Duet is the superior hardware is an added bonus.
You don't have to dedicate a computer to your printer. Since it's controlled through a web interface, you can run in from any device on your network. You could mount an old cell phone and use that. If you have multiple printers, just make browser short cuts to each
What about RPi + RAMPS + Klipper combination?
you aren't remotely the only channel talking about Duet being the go to. I agree the Duet wifi is THE board right now. the crap Anycubic board isn't comparable performance wise (I have run them both and see a difference) with the MKS Gen L. I think if I were worried about the cost of going to the Duet Wifi I would go with the Chinese Duet Wifi over the Maestro. After hearing from several people I trust about the arrogance of the M3D guys at ERRF I would never give them a dime. Filastruder is a good place to get the full though.
Thanks for your efforts in helping us the many upgrades and other possibilties.
According to the duetwifi creator. They designed and tested the duet maestro, not m3d. M3d just had the produced in China and sells them.
ua-cam.com/video/snBZX9P4RBw/v-deo.html around 13:45 on this video you'll see.
Another source. reprap.org/forum/read.php?416,819973 at least give duet the credit they deserve for designing the board.
I have a couple printers all the same manufacturer. There first model used marlin/Rambo board and every model after that used duet. I love the duet user interface. But something is different in the way it processes the gcode. The print quality and reliability are different. I run the marlin based machines 24/7 and they deliver great prints 95% of the time. The duet based machines. Are mechanically basically the same. different screen and bed leveling and slightly bigger build 14 x 14x 12. Strings more, ringing, corners aren't crisp PID for heaters seems different. Just all around worse print quality and can't put my finger on what it is. Was really hoping that this video would actually go into the firmware differences not description of boards. Good video but needs a better title. Thanks
You are right drew, RRF gives less print quality. Marlin all the way. i got 2 printers. 1 duet2 on a way higher quality machine, super light extruder etc etc.. average print Q. on upgraded 32bit SKR 2209 ender3 Flawless! compared with same G-code files same machine sttings.
Pi3 and newer is 64bit processor, raspbian just still uses a 32bit kernel at the moment but is user updatable by those who know where their towel is.
I just ordered a AnyCubic 4max Pro do you think a Duet can be installed on this printer and add an E3d hottend? I am brand new to this where can I start to learn how to do that?
Just a point of correction. I have the Artemis delta printer from SeeMeCNC running the Duet 2 Wifi and not only can I connect a Raspberry Pi and print but it will connect to my new Palette 2 Pro at the same time. They talk to each other using plugins on the Pi. With that said...excellent video!
Thank you for this comment. Will you educate me further? Do you have Octoprint running and sending prints to your Duet board? What is the interface between the Pallet 2 Pro and the Raspberry Pi? Does the Pallet talk to the Duet, or do both of them just talk to the Pi?
@@DesignPrototypeTest Initially before hooking up the Palette 2 I ran a test and used a standard Octoprint install in the Pi and connected it via USB cable to the Duet 2 Wifi and sent over a print job which worked fine. I did notice while the Pi is connected it disconnected the normal interface that comes up on the browser which comes back when the Pi is disconnected. With the Palette 2 I have a cable that runs from it to the Pi and another usb cable that runs from the Pi to the Duet 2 Wifi. A multicolor job is sent to the Pi which then controlls both the printer and the Palette 2. Rather ingenious way to produce 4 color or multimaterial prints with PLA. Mosaic supplies 2 plug-ins for the Pi that makes the magic happen.
@@Magic3DPrinting Thank you.
Nice job!
I run my cheep Chinese printer from the Duet board.
Sure, not the cheapest way to improve printer performance but a very rewarding experience this has been.
Custom macros are a treat! You could create content how these make printers lifes easier.
Idiot proof hardware design and premium components is what you pay for. And yes Duet3D wants to make money, well earned IMHO.
You'll rarely use a screen on your printer since the Duet has its own web interface. Use PC, phone or tablet to control it.
BTW, steppermotors and servo drives are two different things.
Closed loop can be implemented for both. It's just the feedback that a move or change of position has been made.
A servo (with feedback) will (try) keep the commanded position and correct for any change of its position.
Dude, I am not sure whether this is something you've set up or if its something UA-cam has done but I'm getting hit with an ad about once a minute. I got frustrated and stopped watching about 3/4 of the way through the video.
Here's something fun you should try: an ad blocker. Nano adblock/defender works great on Chromium, and Vanced does the trick on Android.
We had troubles with the Pi communication with Arduino 2560, due to
voltage level conversion; in time, it started sending through garbage, if you
wish to upload gcode to Marlin, at a decent speed.
Since the LCD has it's own SD card slot, we thought it's kinda nice
to have Marlin running dedicated.
Besides, we programmed a webserver for the Pi, to be able to
upload files from the web and automated the slicing process.
Now, we can just upload obj/stl and adjust slicer settings on a web page.
No need for octoprint ;)
So ..
We went for a 3V Arduino Due, with a RAMPS-FD, and a tweaked Marlin4Due.
It was a disaster, for while, we got it working, but I wonder...
What would your setup be, for this scenario ?
In particular:
A 3V arduino board, running a normal version of Marlin.
We are thinking about RADDS...
Duet started as a RADDS (Reprap Arduino Due Driver Shield) and then they combined the Arduino and Shield into one PCB, then they just went bonkers making engineering every little detail to be perfect. And they are still making improvements. A Duet Wifi is expensive, but it is well worth it.
@@DesignPrototypeTest
I have a Wifi router, with multiple printers connected (and yes, they're protoypes ;) ).
So, the WiFi is not an issue.
Does Marlin support 3V boards, nowadays ?
Marlin4Due is still expirimental, and discontiuned, after BobC and WurstNase ?
Still looking for the proper firmware, preferably Arduino (open source),
so that it can be tweaked to communicate with my Raspi (WiringPi) webserver.
Because, I wrote my own 6-wire communication protocol (6 data lines )
to speed it up a bit, sending smaller packets with each loop, so it does not interfere
with other processes, like PID and such.
I also bought a Teensy. Seems like a nice board.
Check PyCNC which the outputs of RPI can direct run RAMS board...neat video
Bigtreetech skr 1.3 looks good. Add some steppers, etc
SKR 1.3, 1.4, and 1.4 Turbo are also 32 bit boards, they are reliable and run Marlin 2 with pretty much all the same functionality for a fraction of the price. For around $50 you can buy the entire setup, board, touch screen, WiFi module, and TMC2209 drivers. I feel that to bias this review in Duet's favour he didn't even try to make a fair comparison. There's no shame in being compensated to promote Duet, unless you pretend its an unbiased opinion.
Another misleading point he makes is that duet is somehow an original, its open source and based on another open source Arduino controller, which they copied and integrated in their design. The board is good Quality, but I would absolutely not call it the best board you can buy, especially if considering value for money.
The duet clones are expensive. I have converted most of my printers to skr 1.3s (one with a skr pro 1.1 ). No issues
@@Phil-D83 you should mention firmware too, Marlin 2 ? Its free and well supported by the community and developers.
I have my existing Raspberry pi so basic creality board works fine for me and its budget. Moreover, with Octoprint, i can control more than the printer but camera, power and more.
I have the raspberry pi 3 +Mks GenL with TMC2208 steppers running Klipper and Octoprint. I can't recommend it enough. Great setup.
Same setup here. Also TMCs connected via UART. Until Klipper will have active development I will stay with this.
A couple of details, my maestro works fine with my cr-10s screen, the notches on the screen connectors are reversed, so you have to invert the housing of the screen connector or cut the tab of the cables to plug them the other way around.
The servo pin in the maestro is not necessary for a bltouch, you have another header for Z probes.
Personally I wouldn't do it, but you can use a duet connected to octoprint, making the duet just a dumb driver, I don't think there are many reasons to do it.
20:25 What I found on the github, Klipper merged a PR so as of November 18 it supports Duet2 boards. It's got its own compile option in the make menu for SAM4E8E chips. Not sure if all features of the board are supported, but it looks like it. After all, all that Klipper does is using the board a "slave unit" to execute the instructions coming from a Raspberry. So it looks like all the Duet is doing then is handling communication to the drivers (and stepping interpolation) and the display at that point. Kind of a waste, but it seems to work.
Thank you for the comment. I spoke incorrectly in the video, but I got the general direction right when I said "Klipper is for Raspberry Pi and Ramps boards. RepRapFirmware is for Duet."
@@DesignPrototypeTest klipper will run just fine on duet boards. Saying klipper is for ramps boards is incorrect.Klipper is not just for running 8 bit boards, though admittedly that is where you will find the best improvements. The benefit over running reprap or marlin firmwares is that proper kinematic calculations are used instead of the hacks marlin and other firmwares were forced to use on underpowered micros. This allows for faster speeds at higher print quality , no need for any sort of "jerk" control.
I will grant you that klipper is much more difficult to set up (still better than recompiling marlin for every change). It would definately benefit from a configuration tool to make things easier.
I am currently running klipper on my ender 3 using both the original melzi board and a custom prototype board. I use an stm32 (blue pill) to drive tmc2208's and the end stops. The melzi board is responsible only for the fans and heaters. Prints are much smoother and I regularly print at 150 mm/s, a speed which would have stalled the steppers on the original config/firmware.
Thank you for effort and great review.
Re: OctoPrint + Maestro - you can always use a Pi as a proxy to share the wifi onto the Pi's ethernet port, basically turning the Maestro into a MaestroWifi
The only bummer experience I had w/ my Maestro is that it came from M3D totally used - it had someone else's macros built into it, existing network config, no original box (just wrapped the board in bubble wrap), etc. It still worked totally fine, but it wasn't discounted or anything - just full price, used (without warning)
They test them out prior to shipping I believe. Mine came the same way. I had no issues reconfiguring it to work on my Ender 3. Set up my own macros based on the ones that were there, seemed helpful to me.
Mine came from the German distributor the same way - the scripts on the card are factory test scripts.
Love the video. Thanks. If you run a Duet board via ethernet or Wifi, can you turn the computer off once the printing has started? Or do you have to keep the computer running the whole time?
@Pilot16H Thanks, Pilot. That's what I would have assumed. I asked because I don't seem to be able to do that with my tethered i3 Mini. Not having to mess around with SD cards is a very attractive idea to my mind. Much appreciated. Thanks again.
Pilot16H is correct, but it is even better than that. You can disconnect your computer, then open up the web interface with your phone, then open it with your computer again and the printer will just continue working flawlessly.
Klipper supports Duet boards, so there should be no issue with the Maestro :)
That's news to me. Thank you for the correction.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Well to be honest it supports SAM micro controller like on Arduino Due, or on the Duet ;) so supporting the Duet is not official but possible, and has already be done by some people out there.
Klipper isn't only for 8-bits boards... read up on things... github.com/KevinOConnor/klipper/blob/master/docs/Features.md
@@Nitram_3d And adding raspberry pi to upgrade existing printer is way cheaper that way
Just save your money and get the duet wifi. Best money I have ever spent on a printer.
Thx for the vid! I've been wondering about these different boards for a while ever since seeing you're video about adding the Duet wifi to the ender 3.
I'm excited to see how the new ender 3 build with the maestro goes too :)
People seem to like to give you flak and 'correct' you all the time but the fact is that your making videos other people aren't (least that I've seen) and so I appreciate it. Have a good one! 👍
Thank you!
"This is a MKS Gen L Board" ... *shows anycubic trigorilla
"It has a regular CAT5 Ethernet Plug" ... *shows RJ45 ethernet socket
Thanks for the corrections. I appreciate the knowledge.
If the reason for the more expensive option is just to add WiFi,, Have you looked into just using a simple WiFi SD card such as EZ Share?
Don't get me wrong, I built a 3D printer from scratch and based it on a Ramps board because it's what I had laying around.
I've heard Duet is cool, but the cost of the board(s) is what was holding me back from looking at those.
I built a TON of features into the printer I built, and it was a chore to get Marlin programmed correctly, but I eventually got all the bugs ironed out and it's running well. If Duet can do future upgrades like color mixing or bed leveling better, I'd like to try it out.
You can have a WiFi module hooked up to your printer's control board and it will add no functionality to the system. Duet is the whole package. Software, hardware, and it works so well without bugs or hickups. I've never seen another 3D printer controller which even comes close to the performance. That being said, I wish it cost less. You pay for what you get I guess.
How accurate is this information still??? Like if i had an Ender 3 v2 (32bit board) with a Rasberry Pi 4GB (Octaprint) wouldnt it be more powerful/capable then a Duet3d board???? OR can you Run a Duet3d board WITH a raspberry pi running Octaprint?
Fairly accurate, but it needs to be updated. There is a new Duet 3 Mini board which should be bought instead of the Maestro.
@@DesignPrototypeTest What about the Duet 3 being able to hook up with a raspberry pi??? Does it do the same thing as ender 3 with raspberry pi?
@@bitrage. The complete answer: duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Firmware_Overview#Section_Printing_over_USB_connection_Octoprint_Cura_Simplify3D_Etc
Duet have ethernet port and mega 2560+ramps 1.4 add W5500 Wiznet module ?
I like the SKR v1.3 over the MKS Gen L board
And the SKR Mini e3 with the 2209 divers is hands down better than the Gen L.
The Maestro price has been the same. I bought 2x Duet Wifi's to upgrade a couple of Hatchbox Alpha printers. When you were talking about LCD compatibility it really has to do with the wiring and the code for the LCD. You also failed to mention anything about the 5i and 7i color touch screens which you can get directly from any reseller or you can get clone LCD's for cheaper on Ali.
I don't like their documentation. I think it sucks because there are issues like the endstops have to be 3.3v to work and if your are switch over and yours are 24v they won't work. You would have to use an optocoupler to get them to work. They also don't have videos of the process of moving from an old board to a new one which for a higher priced product compared to chinese Melzis you would expect there would be more.
You also didn't cover the fact that the price of the Duet 2 Wifi takes into account its expandability and you said its too much for 3D printers but its designed for use with custom printers that have more features. I wish UA-cam had response videos like they did in the old days.
Also the level of control of the stepper drivers is more advanced than buying a Cheapo controller that doesn't have the ability to use SPI to talk to the drivers. The Fysetc F6 is a better choice than the L when replacing boards as the compatibility with drivers is higher.
I am still waiting on the next Replicape Revolve board to officially release as it will be cheaper than the Duet and has way more features. You can see all the boards currently 32-bit supported for Marlin here:
github.com/MarlinFirmware/Marlin/issues/7076
1) I don't support the purchasing of cloned hardware for these reasons: ua-cam.com/video/iKhn5IcVvAg/v-deo.html
2) I don't consider the Panel Due to be a realistic option. I have great no issues running my Duet controlled printers without screens. Therefore, I can't justify purchasing an unnecessary screen for $80
3) Duet has great documentation. Have you been on the forum, and looked through the wiki? Are you talking about the documentation for the MKS GenL?
4) Personally, I think that the Duet 2 WiFi is the best option, and I will continue to use that board on my projects in the future. This was a video highlighting the new Maestro Board which is why I didn't spend a lot of time defending of the price for the Duet 2 WiFi. I've spent plenty of time in my other videos advocating for that board.
5) Good point about the control board SPI compatability with the Trinamic drivers. The Fysetc F6 looks like a great board. If I ever do a Klipper build this will be the board I go with.
6) It's great that Marlin is now running on 32 bit boards and all that, but it is still insanely difficult to set up for the average user. The user friendliness needs to be greatly improved before I will start to advocate for it over RepRapFirmware. Most of my viewers aren't as knowledgeable and capable as you. They just want something that works well, and is easy to set up.
@@DesignPrototypeTest You say that but the Creality Melzi and the rest of those boards are all clones. Open Source Clones are not inherently evil. If they didn't exist the market wouldn't be the way it is now. I still think the Duet 2 is overpriced compared to how much cell phones and laptops are that have more power and more sensors. Parts breakdowns tell us when people are just sitting idle on innovation versus price.
On the LCD. By realistic option you meant. Too expensive. They didn't make those LCDs. They sourced them from a Chinese vendor. The same way the E3D doesn't make their own nozzles that they sell. They are a design house. They manufacturer a few, do testing, and then send it to be manufactured elsewhere.
@LOL@ I missed your video. I am going to watch it. Because you and the 3D Print Professor are going to end up in the same barrel.
I would like to have a better idea of what the true cost is though. I had sent them an email asking how many of them had sold since the release of the Duet 2 but they wouldn't give me an idea.
I have been on the forum and I know from experience that there are some things that are not documented that no one would know if DC42 hadn't said anything about it. It's not the first time I have run into that type of thing and it rarely gets talked about. Kinda like problems with the Prusa Mk3.
As far as the price I think you should re-watch your video because you go from knowing the price of the Maestro to looking at a site and then claiming the price was different because of Trumps China Taxation. It just sounded kinda off. LOL
Marlin is definitely not Reprapfirmware's level of ease when you know where everything is. Especially upgrading the firmware, the wifi drivers and the web interface. It was worth it for that much. I sent Elias Bakken a message to find out how far we are away from Revolve. It has alot more features and works with the Manga LCD screen he was aiming for sub $130 price range. Add his Instagram for more info.
www.thing-printer.com/revolve/
I finished watching the video. There is some info you are missing. Some of the players are holding back innovation. The deleted some of their posts after some of us pointed out issues. That strap lock looks neat. It would be useful for some guitar straps. :)
On raspberry you can do more than just octoprint. Like file sharing, dlna server and other like cam and time-lapse. Octoprint is integrated with slicer. Still it communicate with printer board throu USB (or uart) which sometimes can cause problems or delays.
Duet is awesome, all benefits but I can't rid of z seam. With marlin Ive got all tuned up and zseam is bearly noticeable. Taking same slicer settings to Reprap causes small blobs on beginning of loop and cannot hide it with wipe. To be fair I'm still tweeking some settings and use other slicers (simplyfy3d new update is disappointing).
Z seams are a problem in your slicer and Gcode files. It shouldn't have anything to do with Marlin or RepRapFirmware.
@@DesignPrototypeTest kinda does. Marlin ignores some stuff with extruder jerk. Reprap does not, especially with pressure advance. Reprap must stop when going from printing move to not printing move, some recent firmware changes start supporting coasting.
Reprap is still developing and taking requests. I love the extra fitures like laser mode and all gcode config. Marlin maybe change something in 2.0 version.
@@tomaszbiskup891A good reply. Thank you. It's true that RRF is not as mature as Marlin. It will get there. The more popular these boards get, the sooner it will catch up.
Also swap SD cards and your raspberry pi can be a multiuse printing, gaming, and streaming computer. Let's see the Duet do that!
@@222dolson media.giphy.com/media/1M9fmo1WAFVK0/giphy.gif
Have you tried the Lerdge board? It seems to have the same things as the Duet but for less money.
It's not open source, and is not nearly as customizable.
Would you happen to have the pin diagram for the Geeetech Smartto V1.0 motherboard used in the A30T?
Man all the haters for Duet boards. Hate to say it but they have made Marlin useless, but then again that is my opinion just like you have yours but dont dis something till you have tried it. it is the easiest board to set up code for when configuring and dont need any other software and the endless possibilities to run lasers printers and cnc all off one board means with the right modifications you only need one machine. also the number if print heads for multicolor blows what pruisa has out of the water.
Preach!
i wonder if you have a video on how to config the duet for a Delta printer ?
If I wanted a 4x6x6 foot build volume[which is my plan] is it just that simple to configure the build volume?... or is there a limit on that board?
The Duet Board will handle that volume without issue. It's just a matter of changing the min and max travel limits (4 variables) in the config.g file. Easy. The problems you will face with such a large machine are mechanical in nature. Good luck man!
@@DesignPrototypeTest I'm using endstops for each axis. 4 z motors 2 y 1 x linear rails all the way around x and y pushed with leads screws not pulleys...yea I've got my work cut out for me!but I love it 👍😜💯💪
Don't use a Maestro for this project. The Stepper Drivers aren't powerful enough. The Duet Wifi or Ethernet has the more powerful stepper drivers, but they don't have enough plugs for all these steppers, so you will need to get fancy with your wiring. Look up the difference between wiring those stepper motors in series vs parallel.
@@DesignPrototypeTest thanx for tips... I will be buying the Duet Wi-Fi ..I assumed that there was an adapter that would allow the extra connections!?
at the beginning, did you intentionally bloat the pricing?
I would much prefer MKS Gen L with DRV8825s than over priced hot weaklings of TMC2208. MKS Gen L + DRV8825 drivers cost under 25$ combined ...
Or if we want to go over priced then TB6600 over TMC2208 drivers.
These days you can also get a Re-Arm board or SKR, both are designed to be traditional RAMPS related ecosystem replacements with 32bit. SKR is drop in replacement for MKS Gen L.
Both can run Marlin 2.0 and i think it was smoothieware?
There is also MKS Sbase which is smoothie based.
Duet is closed ecosystem, so i do not think it will ever become dominant. At least i hope so! We are much better off with open hackable ecosystem like the Mega2560 / RAMPS related stuff.
You are flat out wrong about Duet being a closed ecosystem. Both RepRapFirmware and DuetWebControl are licensed under the GNU GPL V.3 Furthermore All the Duet hardware designs are licensed under the CERN OHL 1.2. The design files are released on GitHub.
RepRapFirmware is superior to Marlin. While it may be a less mature firmware, the usability, user interface, and Macros based editing system sets it miles ahead. There are little things here and there that Marlin does better, but those will all be addressed as RRF itself matures.
After wasting like 100 hours of my life on my MKS Sbase project. I will never touch that board again. It's Chinese junk. If you want to know more about my experience with that board. Here is that point in the video when I gave up on the MKS Sbase board: ua-cam.com/video/asSLjLGlSrw/v-deo.html
@@DesignPrototypeTest Thanks for correcting that, from a Duet developer interview i got the very firm sense that they are closed source all the way.
would the TFT screen work with the duet maestro ?
Are there any TFT touch screens that will work with the Maestro board to eliminate the issue of the encoder inaccuracies?
At this time, your only options are the RepRap Discount Full Graphics display or the Panel Due which costs around $80 USD. Personally, I don't use a screen with my Duet builds.
May well be easily solved by modifying the encoder with some capacitors. To dampen the switch stutter.
The encoder inaccuracy is just a configuration issue - there are rotary encoders which do two or four pulses per step, configure the correct number (i.e. 4 pulses for the creality displays) and you are fine.
Maestro supports printing by USB, so it will work with OctoPrint for sure. No special fiddling required. This is why no one is actually writing about it, it's really too simple. (:
"Maestro supports printing by USB" Source please.
Sure you can - but why should you? The built in web interface of reprap is excellent and you get fast upload of gcode onto the sd card. When running of sd the firmware can read gcode on its own pace, better plan ahead upcoming movements which will improve your speed and print quality. Also, you get power recovery which is not going to work if you run off octoprint sending gcode through a usb serial interface.
@@DesignPrototypeTest reprap.org/wiki/RepRap_Firmware_FAQ#Can_I_run_RRF_with_an_USB_front-end_like_Pronterface_or_Repetier-host.3F_Yes
I’ve just upgraded my printer to an skr board, but it definitely would of been interesting to see this video before that
i like the camera idea for the octoprint just to be able to keep an eye on my prints when i have to leave, i just got my first raspberry pi about a week ago an still haven't set octoprint up on it cause i keep playing with all the other stuff i can do with it so i'll probably end up picking up another one just for octoprint, any suggestions on them memory? the first one i got is 4gig an ive not seen it be sluggish at anything yet unless it was internet related an that was with wifi an my shit internet net speeds. or should i look into a 32 bit board just to go into my printer, i have the ender 5 a little over 3 months old.
Youre just saying the marlin things suck but the dont.
But can you use the mellow fly E3 or E3-pro because those are a bit less expensive and the have rrf so its like a duet but better because its a drop in replacement for a ender 3
octoprint doesn't work with duet?? just a simple google search begs the differ?
Please provide the link.
You can run Repetier server on a PI and connect it to a Maestro, but then you are approaching the cost of a DuetWiFI.
Thank you, Matthew Croft
Can i connect large size Nema34 stepper motor driver to the Duet Maestro board. I need pin out on the board in order to do it. I mean it should be pin notation on the board , for example to add large driver for Y axis motor i need " Dir-Y, Step-Y, ANABLE-XYE, GRD pins on the board in order to do that.
You should not use the onboard Stepper motor drivers on a Duet Wifi to drive Nema 34 sized stepper motors. At best you can drive a Nema 23. More information here: duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Choosing_and_connecting_stepper_motors
Hi in one of your tutorials on cnc engravers you mentioned artcam free software unfortunately though, artcam is now discontinued. Would you please recommend an alternate software...am struggling to find a user friendly software to generate gcodes for the cnc engraver
Duet just costs too much for me. It has it's place, don't get me wrong. But for my printers that didn't cost me $1,000 I find it to be just too much for what it is. I bought a Lerdge for abut $75 which seems OK for now - I can put Marlin on it later if I decide to. I was going to go with an MKS (I still might for my small printer) but I want a 32-bit one and haven't researched it all out enough yet to make a choice. Good video though, for sure.
You can get a Chinese maestro clone (it is open hardware after all) for around 75$ as well.
Lerdge isn't opensource. :(
@@Deneteus yeah but it seems nice so far and the price was effectively half of the duet wifi.