I'm preparing for TEOTWAWKI today by carrying around 60 extra pounds of fat on my belly and chest. That way, as I slowly starve to death, I'll be able to carry more and more ammo. It's called Fat to Ammo Conversion.
If only there were some "intermediate" option with the low recoil, cheap ammo, and wide parts availabilty of a carbine, with the capability of engaging at 400 yards... 🤔
the desert sucks. Trust me, I practically live in one. Yeah we do have long ranges out to 1000m and have f class competitions and stuff here, but i'm sure you can find that where you live.
AR-10 enthusiast here. Live 45 mins away from the mountains and train recce consistently at least once a month. I reload my own ammunition and have more than 2000 rounds loaded currently with the availability to load up to 5000 realistically. In the 5 years I've owned my very accurate, reliable, $1200 Smith and Wesson M&P10 I would say I've put 3000 rounds downrange. I have experienced no accuracy loss. I have a $600 LVPO 1-8 on my rifle, have my dope card, and can make 1st round hits reliably out to 500 yds. I wholeheartedly agree that for someone who is not training often or not willing to put in time to learn their rifle, dropping $4000 on a Scar is a waste of money. For the average gun owner I would say a battle rifle is impractical. As my favorite Gun Tuber Garand Thumb (You and Risky are tied for second) says: "Make youself the weapon." But ya know most people aren't willing to do that so whatever lol.
I had a pcc 9mm ar for a few years and really enjoyed it. So easy to blow through 2-300 rds of 9mm in an afternoon shoot. I realized it wasnt practical after a few out of battery detonations. Blow back design has its flaws. Even still its a fun toy. An AR in 556 just makes way more sense when reliablility and effectiveness out to 300 yards is factored in. The biggest plus to the AR9 was shooting steel at close ranges and shooting fast without worrying about ammo cost. Sold mine and keep a 556 SBR handy at all times. Love the channel trench. Keep up the good work!
@@DoraTheMFDestroya I was only trying to convey my opinion that a 556 SBR (or pistol, etc) is everything an AR9 is and more. They can be built for the same cost or less, have much better terminal ballistics, more effective at farther ranges, and better reliability generally speaking (gas system and locking bolt vs straight blowback). If 556 wasn't an option and I had to pick 9mm or 308 I'm probably taking both and leaving the 308 behind if I had to bug out and leave my truck behind to escape shithole Dallas on foot.
I agree with this 100% I have a keltec sub 2k probably only train with it twice a month, but it's very cost effective and has been completely reliable over probably close to 1000 rounds I have on it
love my KelTec 9mm carbine it's light and easy to shoot and fun accessory's to put on it. Im' 66 years old and cant handle full size rifles anymore. and the high tek ammo to choose from helps in self defence situations.
Both are useful. It depends on mission and engagement distance. 308 in a "battle rifle", that is used in a CQB (0-50m) for defense when you get ambushed, but like quite a lot of calibers it's a niche, that's extremely effective.
@SFE3610 Yes, if you have multiple attacks with armor breaks in and you use a 308, you have a better chance of reducing the number of threats quickly and focusing on the other threats still active.
@skydivingcomrade1648 I 100% agree! The best evidence for this I think is the millitary deciding to upsize their own primary round from 5.556 to 6.8x51 becaus3 the green tip just zips through people and unless you hit them in an extremely vital area or pelvic gurdle they keep on fighting even bleeding to death
Eugene stoner got it right on so many levels when he invented the ar15. I reload 5.56 for about 30 cents a round. At 3200 fps a 55 grain bullet does a lot of damage out to 300 meters. For those of us fudds who stocked up on reloading supplies for the past 20 years we can afford to train and shoot the larger calibers. Pistol ammo will always be pistol ammo and rifle ammo will always be rifle ammo.
M1 Carbine which is technically a PDW, practices at least once every three months between roughly 45-300 feet(night shift catches me sleeping more than up at business hours unfortunately.) but runs through 450 rounds, can still get at least a 7MOA out to 280 feet, and buys 300 rounds a week... (realized I'm not good at measuring in yards or meters...)
Trench, awsome class. Thank you .22 cal. Bullet placement. Not just the size of the round matters. Again, bullet placement. Train for bullet placement. Surgical placement. Now you can CQB. Close quarters. Remember: the longest law enforcement sniper shot was 75yrds. Upon average, you will be engaging, close quarters. Bullet placement.
They are 2 completely different platforms intended for completely different use cases. Personally I have no use for a pcc. They offer nothing a full sized pistol or a shorty ar in 556 can't do.
I really enjoy my pcc. Loads of fun. Cost to shoot doesn’t even register. But you are exactly right. A 300 blk pdw with 125 bullets. Is a superior platform
I work 70 hours a week for two to three months at a time. I shoot when i get home off the road during that one week off. I can't train anything the way I would like. I have to work like this to pay the bills for my family during this unprecedented time. I have both pcc and battle rifles for different purposes. I bought them when times were better. I enjoy having access to both. I'm not going to sell either because it simply won't matter. When stuff happens, I guess I'll be a loot drop, but I can't do more than i already am to prepare for whatever is coming.
@phillipschmidtke2001 that's the life of all truckers. If you can buy it, a trucker brought it. It can be a tough job at times, but i can listen to books, music, and podcasts all day long, so it has its perks.
@phillipschmidtke2001 True. I do have a lot of tools and my ten years in the Army. I am pretty good with most of my firearms, and I had ten solid years of doing a lot of shooting. Two Iraq deployments as infantry can't be replicated by any training, so I have some unique understanding of asymmetric warfare.
I bought a Smith and Wesson FPC and I am glad I did, have found it more practical to utilize faster than my Battle rifle and AR pistol. In real self defense situations. always be aware of overpenetration is a close quarters engagement, this is why so many love the MP5
A PCC chambered in 9mm is actually a really practical training tool. I don't own one of those yet, but I will at some point. I have a custom LR-308 to, and if nothing else, the damn thing is just fun as all hell to shoot. Seeing as I live in a desert, probably a good idea to have something that might be able to reach out.
USPSA and IDPA PCC is better training for less cost than trying to go to a bunch of expensive carbine courses. Then stretch a 5.56 as far as you can go for lower volume shooting and marksmanship.
If you're not a Chad, older and can't run with the young bucks anymore physically disabled, a PCC is definitely lighter weight ammo and gun, and something you could defend yourself with absolutely. If your main system is going to be a pistol or PCC whatever it is make sure you can carry enough ammo to be effective and that you can handle the weapon you're carrying.
I shoot 8 - 10 times per year, and attend at least one structured class civ side. I try to run drills that require minimal round counts so that I can add some of the ammo back to my stockpile. I have an M1, and I hunt with a 3006, but I don't stock much ammo for that. I have 2 9mm pccs- beretta cx4 & pmx. So easy to shoot.
I cant really use an ar15 type of weapon in ny state. I hunt a lot. Am i better off training with my shotgun? My bolt 30-06 bolt gun. Various lever guns and a sks.
I have 2 AR9 Glock mag dedicated I shot both recently. One is a pistol braced and other is SBR. I shoot the 6 inch plate at 100 about 9 of 10 but 12 inch is 10 of 10
Ive been thinking about getting a 9mm like the one you have as a truck gun... or maybe ill just get myself a nice little blkout honey badger or sig mpx
I have a Ruger PCC 9 that’s my “get home” rifle. It’s heavy as fuck but it’s a very good shooter. I have a good amount of mags for it +20 round mags not standard capacity g17 mags. And then my get home pistol is my Glock 45 so if I need to share ammo between I can. Obviously I pray it’s never needed but that isn’t going to end well without training. I was at the range today and will be again tomorrow. Picked up a micro dagger and shot 500 through it. Flawless 6 oem Glock 43x mags and 4 oem psa mags.
but you won't be able to get close enough to be a threat because when you're well within the lethal range of my 300blk i will be far out of range from your rainbow arching 9mm pcc @@Soli_Deo_Gloria_. . ☺
A couple of senarios when 308 win is better: 1. Open field combat and trench warfare, like WW2 or Korean War. 2. Winter and Arctic warfare when people wear really thick clothings. 3. Mountain warfare, shooting from edge to edge of the mountain across valley. 4. Assasination, shooting through car doors and glasses. 5. City defense, hold the high ground, shoot through incoming vehicles.
Are we not even going to talk about suppressors??? Federal American Eagle 147gr and Federal 147gr HSTs have the exact same POI and are both subsonic. They both sound like a pellet gun out of my PTR9 with a $600 Surefire Ryder 9.
As a kid I remembered the Ruger Camp in 45acp , not to mention all the back to 1870s with the carbine in 45colt ,, i wanted that camp pretty badly , same mags and ammo perfect for truck or go bag
I think pcc don't make sense because I can't put it in a holster, and if I ever need a long gun...I will want the barrier defeating capability of the "battle rifle"....those are the only two scenarios I see me not getting into a fight I can't win......
I came up on a very good deal for a PTR 91 recently, just mounted a 1-6 lpvo and it is quite heavy. I will try to put at least 500 rounds down range this year on it, luckily there is a 600 yard range not too far from my house. Its definitely not my first choice for SHTF but its fun to shoot and could add some capability to my group if I learn to utilize it well.
Somebody had made some 7.62×25 barrels for an AR platform, need a bigger mag over 9mm. Build a pps 43, I have a ppsh 41 with .30 and 9 barrels. Kicks ass!
Ive been running Colt LE69XX PCC for damn near 20 years . My dad actually owns Colt 633 DOE 9mm . His is the 16" civilian version . I've always been huge PCC fan . I freaking love my Colt LE6991 Pistol . One of the places we shoot 2Gun matches at uses CQB Format so targets are 50Y and in for the most part . Its fun being able to run 9mm PCC in a match . My 6991 does not run certain types of JHP ammo . It will run Hornady XTP and TAP / FTX very well . I only have experience with Colt PCC for long term usage . I have shot quite a few MP5s , and MPXs . I really do like the MPX . JP IMO makes the best PCC for Competition. JP and MPX are the top doggs for sure in Competition.
308Win brass is infinitely reloadable. I'm still reloading Federal Gold Medal Match brass originally from ammo I bought in 2008. Weren't you still in high school in 2008??
I have a Beretta cx4 and man I love that thing. It runs Beretta 92 mags which is a downside being I run a Glock 19 as my edc. But that being said it is an absolute blast to shoot.
Where the PCC shines is in home defense, it is not too loud and is easier to shoot than a handgun. For anything else, a Glock on your belt and an AR is the way to go.
It is interesting reading accounts from Ukraine and the popularity of battle rifle cartridges. As a matter of fact, flannel daddy had a brit fighter on who spoke highly of the performance due to ranges of engagement, body armor etc. said it drops them immediately. It has its drawbacks of course such as ammo weight etc but is viable into modern warfare. For the average home defense it absolutely works. Beyond that i am not a fan of a shorty 5.56 is more versatile imo. Thanks trench. Appreciate the videos and all the time and work you put into them.
Great video I have few 9mm PCC ( matches to my fullsize pistol choices) and AR-15 .300blkout and AK47 7.62x39 for close range and midrange. If I need to do work after 300 yards I go bolt action and in .300WM. I shoot decent amount(not as much as I used to kids take up my free time football season) and had a traning class 2 months ago.
If you take us bandolier, open flap and put velcro on top instead of button, you gonna have ability to carry 3 32 rnd glock mags in each pouch so total 9. You can put velcro inside and put inserts inside. You can put med kit inside. You can carry it as pouch on side or add strap and make chest rig of it. All perfect for pcc
No man is outrunning an Apache, but you *can* move out of the center mass of a fire mission or plain mortars. The term "dying in place" exists for a reason, too.
@@timsimmons9995 The 4 points of contact, shoulder, cheek, both hands makes it easier to hold steadier for farther targets 100yards and even farther is very doable if you know what the bullet trajectory is doing.
What most people fail to realize is that they aren't in the military, aren't going to be resupplied, have no artillery, mortar or airstrike capabilities. You have zero reinforcements coming to your rescue so you only get to have one rifle that can do everything... hunting big game, capable of doing anti-aircraft, anti vehicle, shoot through most walls , and take out communication and power equipment. Old school infantrymen were supposed to be able to do everything with their weapon if they were separated from their units. Today's short barreled tacticool carbines are basically PDWs cuz the military has a huge support network behind it. We're not going to be in a bunch of firefights or shoot up lots of ammo if we get into one. That's suicide. We hit and then we melt away or we just avoid it altogether. I'd like to see someone go up against big game that's aggressively attacking them with a pistol caliber carbine or a short barreled 223. I'll take my 308 G-3 that has huge parts and magazine availability fairly cheap and if I had to use it in hand to hand combat it won't break into pieces like my M-16 did when I was in the military. My load out consists of 4 mags in a chest pouch and 1 in the gun for 100 rds total. I can't carry as much as you can of 223 but I don't have to shoot someone 6-7 times to put them down like is common in today's combat using 223. So if you only can have one gun.... make sure you can get a rifle that is capable of doing it all cuz we don't have the luxury of carrying several different guns to take care of different tasks. Don't fall for the sales hype to get you to buy more guns instead of more ammo to practice with.
I’m a AR10 and M1A enjoyer myself but I’m not gonna argue with his points here. My AR10 is more setup as a heavy DMR and the M1A is just for fun. But I actually train more with my AR9 than either of my .308 guns. When I lived in AZ, it was fun to take the .308 guns out to 700ish yards but now I’m in MI and only do that a couple times a year. I able to take a deer with the AR10 this fall but even that shot was only 150 yards.
Although my first pick would be my X95, I have become very Comfortable with my GHM9. Its size and weight are very advantageous. ...... but @ 4:10 You may not want to engage someone at distance, but they may want to engage you at distance and if all you have is 9mm, you don't stand a chance against 556 with an eighteen inch barrel
It's situation and terrain dependent. Think about likely scenarios and the terrain in your area or where you anticipate being and pick the right tool for the job. One isn't better than the other, they just fill different uses better or worse.
I have a Kriss Vector chambered in 10mm. I absolutely love it. Yeah, people are always saying stuff like "Pfft yeah thats just meant to look cool" or "you wasted your money on that thing? Wow."
Both have a place on the field. I don't own a PCC myself but I do recognize the niche that it fills in the personal/home defense and executive protection fields. Trench is correct in the context that he lays out. There is a time and place for either platform.
I own 2 long guns besides a shotgun. Sig AR15 type carbine and a MP5 (semi auto) Spent years shooting the AR platform, but probably shoot the MP5 more now due to it being cheaper, and when I go to range only having to carry 9mm which I also use in my M&P pistol. Availability is also a factor. Thanks for all the great content.
I am currently thinking of building a PCC... I think this video has sold me on it. It was on either a PCC or a 762x39... and I think this video sold me on doing the PCC first.
I think it’s adorbs that the newer generation are so heavily involved with PCC’s. But they are nothing new. What is new is using pistol mags in a carbine style AR. Anything that accepts a Glock mag is nothing more than a range toy. At some point, it will fail…period. PCC’s have a terrible track record of breaking the bolt catch because the AR platform was never designed for the longer BCG travel caused by angle the double stack single feed Glock mags. The only mags that should be trusted are Colt style mags in an AR style carbine. Colt mags are double stack double feed, designed for actual SMG’s. Basically the Colt style mags seat straight up and down, eliminating the need to create a special mag release and bolt catch specific to that style lower. The Glock mags funnels one round at a time through the top of the mag at an exaggerated angle. The Colt Mags feed from both left and right sides evenly and uses the existing mag release and bolt catch (if desired). The reason the bolt catch failure rate is so high, especially on the Glock mag PCC’s is because the mag is extended forward so far. The heavier buffer and longer Bolt travel causes excessive force transfer to the bolt catch. The Banshee addresses the issue somewhat using a milled bolt catch and a guide bin on the top edge of the barrel breech to aid in feeding. Bottom line, if you must use a PCC for other than range work….get an HK or get one that uses Colt mags.
I keep a keltec 2000 that runs the same mags as my Glock 19. I use the higher capacity mags for the rifle and I keep it folded in my “get home bag” in my truck.
I own a couple battle rifles. Fired them a lot over the years. I keep a stock pile of ammo for them. Cant shoot em as often as I used to and still keep stockpile up. I recently purchased the new s&w fpc and absolutely love it. 9mm is so much cheaper. Therefore the tack driving 9mm gets a lot more play time rn. I think everyone should have both and always keep options open.
I like my m1 carbine (but would grab my ar)... and can actually afford to feed it too. It is in between a PCC and a battle rifle round, basically an intermediate round so it can defeat soft armor, reach a little farther, holds plenty too, lightweight aswell, and easy to maintain. Its only downside is 30 carbine will be harder ammo to find than other rounds.
Why have a rifle sized pistol when you can have a rifle sized rifle? (5.56/7.62x39) Although the ammo is cheap and it is good for training, I certainly don't see myself going to battle with something that can't even penetrate soft armor. Still agree that it's better than a battle rifle though due to weight/ammo capacity.
So im not a big gun person, so i do a lot of research on certain ones if im interested in buying one. I own an AR pistol which i know isn’t the same as a pistol carbine, but i do want a pistol carbine and wanted to see your take on it. Anyway I have .223 wylde ar pistol at 7.5 inches. So my question is: if knowing i have the ar pistol should i still get the pistol carbine? I mean on one hand yes tø familiarize myself with different types of weapons at least as a civilian, but on the other, id rather be proficient with the current weapons i have and pour money into ammo and training. I currently have a AR-15 and an AR pistol. So i guess i have a battle rifle for minecraft? I don’t know Hoss, thoughts?
I'm preparing for TEOTWAWKI today by carrying around 60 extra pounds of fat on my belly and chest. That way, as I slowly starve to death, I'll be able to carry more and more ammo. It's called Fat to Ammo Conversion.
I heard DEVGRU does that as well
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Nice.... 😂
That is a plan. Better than no plan.
type 2 diabetes gonna get you first. lol
If only there were some "intermediate" option with the low recoil, cheap ammo, and wide parts availabilty of a carbine, with the capability of engaging at 400 yards... 🤔
I see what you did there... 💯🇺🇲
Oops cheap ammo, whompwhomp
Lol
We shall keep dreaming of that day…
😂
I'm so jealous of people who live in the desert and can shoot at 1000m for free whenever they feel like it
In the prairies we can do that in almost any direction.
I'm not jealous of ANYONE in the desert lmao fuck that
I miss my range in Kansas. 1000m long
Yep my
range 50 m
the desert sucks. Trust me, I practically live in one. Yeah we do have long ranges out to 1000m and have f class competitions and stuff here, but i'm sure you can find that where you live.
They told me getting sp5 is stupid but pdw’s make so much more sense for a civilian than a rifle especially if you live in an urban environment
Meh, a .308 in an end of world scenario means you've got one rifle you fight with and hunt anything in North America with.
9MM can kill pretty much anything in the world besides like elephants and things like that, even bears die from 9MM
AR-10 enthusiast here. Live 45 mins away from the mountains and train recce consistently at least once a month.
I reload my own ammunition and have more than 2000 rounds loaded currently with the availability to load up to 5000 realistically.
In the 5 years I've owned my very accurate, reliable, $1200 Smith and Wesson M&P10 I would say I've put 3000 rounds downrange. I have experienced no accuracy loss.
I have a $600 LVPO 1-8 on my rifle, have my dope card, and can make 1st round hits reliably out to 500 yds.
I wholeheartedly agree that for someone who is not training often or not willing to put in time to learn their rifle, dropping $4000 on a Scar is a waste of money. For the average gun owner I would say a battle rifle is impractical. As my favorite Gun Tuber Garand Thumb (You and Risky are tied for second) says: "Make youself the weapon."
But ya know most people aren't willing to do that so whatever lol.
Good point.
REEEE
I flinch everytime i see how much it costs to reup on .308
so get a 5.56, duhhhhhhhhhh
Using ammoseek helps but it's still more expensive than 5.56. Sometimes you find really good deals on there tho.
Rrreeeee
Psa got the hookup
Reloading is cost effective and meditative.
I had a pcc 9mm ar for a few years and really enjoyed it. So easy to blow through 2-300 rds of 9mm in an afternoon shoot. I realized it wasnt practical after a few out of battery detonations. Blow back design has its flaws. Even still its a fun toy. An AR in 556 just makes way more sense when reliablility and effectiveness out to 300 yards is factored in. The biggest plus to the AR9 was shooting steel at close ranges and shooting fast without worrying about ammo cost. Sold mine and keep a 556 SBR handy at all times. Love the channel trench. Keep up the good work!
5.56 isn't a battle rifle tho.
@DoraTheMFDestroya neither is 9mm. You don't need full sized cartridges, these days.
@@DoraTheMFDestroya I was only trying to convey my opinion that a 556 SBR (or pistol, etc) is everything an AR9 is and more. They can be built for the same cost or less, have much better terminal ballistics, more effective at farther ranges, and better reliability generally speaking (gas system and locking bolt vs straight blowback). If 556 wasn't an option and I had to pick 9mm or 308 I'm probably taking both and leaving the 308 behind if I had to bug out and leave my truck behind to escape shithole Dallas on foot.
I enjoy your takes on things that sometimes go against the most commonly held ideas, they are thought provoking...
I agree with this 100% I have a keltec sub 2k probably only train with it twice a month, but it's very cost effective and has been completely reliable over probably close to 1000 rounds I have on it
Love my sub 2k. Pairs well if your EDC is a glock platform.
The guys who were fan boys of Small Moustache Man thought highly of the MP40.
They liked the ppsh even better. Faster and more reliable.
Amd your point is ???
If PCCs were full auto then I'd be interested
Mugabe? I didn't know Commie militants used MP40s in the Bush War.
Despite stens being a pile of junk I am firmly a sten gun sympathizer.
love my KelTec 9mm carbine it's light and easy to shoot and fun accessory's to put on it. Im' 66 years old and cant handle full size rifles anymore. and the high tek ammo to choose from helps in self defence situations.
Both are useful. It depends on mission and engagement distance.
308 in a "battle rifle", that is used in a CQB (0-50m) for defense when you get ambushed, but like quite a lot of calibers it's a niche, that's extremely effective.
I like that 308 can make holes close up and far away.
Are you saying it's poor for defense at 0-50? If so, how and why?
@skydivingcomrade1648 so your saying it's a caliber to use opposed to a pistol caliber
@SFE3610 Yes, if you have multiple attacks with armor breaks in and you use a 308, you have a better chance of reducing the number of threats quickly and focusing on the other threats still active.
@skydivingcomrade1648 I 100% agree! The best evidence for this I think is the millitary deciding to upsize their own primary round from 5.556 to 6.8x51 becaus3 the green tip just zips through people and unless you hit them in an extremely vital area or pelvic gurdle they keep on fighting even bleeding to death
Eugene stoner got it right on so many levels when he invented the ar15. I reload 5.56 for about 30 cents a round. At 3200 fps a 55 grain bullet does a lot of damage out to 300 meters. For those of us fudds who stocked up on reloading supplies for the past 20 years we can afford to train and shoot the larger calibers. Pistol ammo will always be pistol ammo and rifle ammo will always be rifle ammo.
dude this guy is 100% fed
@@investigativeoutcomes9343 Im starting to agree lot of people pushing ineffective carbine calibers like 9mm lately
yeah, they must want us outgunned @@theintrovertedcalifornian5047 , not sure what to make of this nonsense.
glock 19, 14.5'' super duty 5.56, slr 10.5'' 300blk, remington 40x tactical .308 win, only guns i have. ☺ i like to keep it simple.
@@theintrovertedcalifornian5047 this is what I was thinking. Why in hell would you go with a pcc if it goes sideways?
M1 Carbine which is technically a PDW, practices at least once every three months between roughly 45-300 feet(night shift catches me sleeping more than up at business hours unfortunately.) but runs through 450 rounds, can still get at least a 7MOA out to 280 feet, and buys 300 rounds a week... (realized I'm not good at measuring in yards or meters...)
😂 You are correct. A 'trapper' Winchester model 94, in .357 Magnum is the perfect pistol caliber carbine
I have a Henry and Marlin in .357
You'll be less likely to have civilians target you if you are not equipped like a wannabe soldier.
Is this a response to blue jean operators battle rifle video yesterday??????
Trench, awsome class.
Thank you
.22 cal.
Bullet placement.
Not just the size of the round matters.
Again, bullet placement.
Train for bullet placement.
Surgical placement.
Now you can CQB.
Close quarters.
Remember: the longest law enforcement sniper shot was 75yrds.
Upon average, you will be engaging, close quarters.
Bullet placement.
I agree, the capabilities needed for military far exceed what's needed for shtf in an urban environment
Never forget the use case of the American 180 .22 machine gun
The best thing about a PCC is that most brands have matching handguns. Someone with low experience has to learn one manual of arms.
They are 2 completely different platforms intended for completely different use cases. Personally I have no use for a pcc. They offer nothing a full sized pistol or a shorty ar in 556 can't do.
The MP5 has entered the chat
I really enjoy my pcc. Loads of fun. Cost to shoot doesn’t even register. But you are exactly right. A 300 blk pdw with 125 bullets. Is a superior platform
yep
9mm is as useless as 22lr, for practice you might as well go with 22lr
maybe for cqb @@KennethJoines-th4jk , but 5.56 suppressed sbr is a better all around defensive gun.
I work 70 hours a week for two to three months at a time. I shoot when i get home off the road during that one week off. I can't train anything the way I would like. I have to work like this to pay the bills for my family during this unprecedented time. I have both pcc and battle rifles for different purposes. I bought them when times were better. I enjoy having access to both. I'm not going to sell either because it simply won't matter. When stuff happens, I guess I'll be a loot drop, but I can't do more than i already am to prepare for whatever is coming.
Yes, it sucks when life gets in the way.
At least you’ll make em’ earn it. If there are enough of us in the server playing, we can’t all be loot drops.
Brutal you have to work 70 hour weeks so often. I hope things get better someday. Keep grinding.
@phillipschmidtke2001 that's the life of all truckers. If you can buy it, a trucker brought it. It can be a tough job at times, but i can listen to books, music, and podcasts all day long, so it has its perks.
@phillipschmidtke2001 True. I do have a lot of tools and my ten years in the Army. I am pretty good with most of my firearms, and I had ten solid years of doing a lot of shooting. Two Iraq deployments as infantry can't be replicated by any training, so I have some unique understanding of asymmetric warfare.
I bought a Smith and Wesson FPC and I am glad I did, have found it more practical to utilize faster than my Battle rifle and AR pistol. In real self defense situations. always be aware of overpenetration is a close quarters engagement, this is why so many love the MP5
A PCC chambered in 9mm is actually a really practical training tool. I don't own one of those yet, but I will at some point. I have a custom LR-308 to, and if nothing else, the damn thing is just fun as all hell to shoot. Seeing as I live in a desert, probably a good idea to have something that might be able to reach out.
5.56 sbr! 9mm 50yard max range, 9mm is a complete joke past 50 yards, you need to reach out to at least 150 yards
@@investigativeoutcomes9343 A 12.5 SBR would be my choice if going that route. Dudes love their 11.5's to though.
i love my 11.5, very low recoil due to the short barrel @@coltonowens2742 .
USPSA and IDPA PCC is better training for less cost than trying to go to a bunch of expensive carbine courses.
Then stretch a 5.56 as far as you can go for lower volume shooting and marksmanship.
If you're not a Chad, older and can't run with the young bucks anymore physically disabled, a PCC is definitely lighter weight ammo and gun, and something you could defend yourself with absolutely. If your main system is going to be a pistol or PCC whatever it is make sure you can carry enough ammo to be effective and that you can handle the weapon you're carrying.
I shoot 8 - 10 times per year, and attend at least one structured class civ side. I try to run drills that require minimal round counts so that I can add some of the ammo back to my stockpile. I have an M1, and I hunt with a 3006, but I don't stock much ammo for that. I have 2 9mm pccs- beretta cx4 & pmx. So easy to shoot.
I cant really use an ar15 type of weapon in ny state. I hunt a lot. Am i better off training with my shotgun? My bolt 30-06 bolt gun. Various lever guns and a sks.
Own Both PSA AR10 I. 308and a extarEP9 (yeah I’m poor) and dang I love them both! Just different tools for different applications 😊
I’m not poor and also own an EP9. It’s a fantastic firearm and serves as my home defense platform.
I have 2 AR9 Glock mag dedicated I shot both recently. One is a pistol braced and other is SBR. I shoot the 6 inch plate at 100 about 9 of 10 but 12 inch is 10 of 10
My PCC is a HiPoint.
Ive been thinking about getting a 9mm like the one you have as a truck gun... or maybe ill just get myself a nice little blkout honey badger or sig mpx
I think everyone should have multiple caches. Make cache reports so you can find them.
I have a Ruger PCC 9 that’s my “get home” rifle. It’s heavy as fuck but it’s a very good shooter. I have a good amount of mags for it +20 round mags not standard capacity g17 mags. And then my get home pistol is my Glock 45 so if I need to share ammo between I can. Obviously I pray it’s never needed but that isn’t going to end well without training. I was at the range today and will be again tomorrow. Picked up a micro dagger and shot 500 through it. Flawless 6 oem Glock 43x mags and 4 oem psa mags.
We have identical set ups gahaha
no, pistol caliber carbines are a joke. unless you mean suppressed 300blk 10.5'' loaded with hornady black 110grn vmax.
But you'd never volunteer to stand in front of the joke... That's funny... 😆👍
but you won't get within range when i have my 300blk @@Soli_Deo_Gloria_. lol
but you won't be able to get close enough to be a threat because when you're well within the lethal range of my 300blk i will be far out of range from your rainbow arching 9mm pcc @@Soli_Deo_Gloria_. . ☺
I have a PCC build in the works, slow going right now unfortunately. But EDC and PCC will share same mags.... thinking perfect truck pew?
Perfect truck pew is a m4 lol
@@mikehoncho4637 that's my current truck pew
@@fattiewestside same. Glock 17 appendix carry. Colt m4, compm4s, surefire scout and a sling in the trunk.
I'm going with a mp7 with a binny for my side arm. Still sticking with 556 AR.
I live in the sticks, so I may have to go out with the 7mm bolty boi.
A couple of senarios when 308 win is better: 1. Open field combat and trench warfare, like WW2 or Korean War. 2. Winter and Arctic warfare when people wear really thick clothings. 3. Mountain warfare, shooting from edge to edge of the mountain across valley. 4. Assasination, shooting through car doors and glasses. 5. City defense, hold the high ground, shoot through incoming vehicles.
Are we not even going to talk about suppressors??? Federal American Eagle 147gr and Federal 147gr HSTs have the exact same POI and are both subsonic. They both sound like a pellet gun out of my PTR9 with a $600 Surefire Ryder 9.
Have 3x pcc for indoor range, 8x ar15 for outdoor range, and 1x ar10 for terminators, cyclons, and aliens.
I agree with the premise of the video, but I don't have or want a PCC. My 308 is bolt action for hunting.
EDIT: I'd love to have a MP5 for the vibes
CMMG drop in 22 kit nice for 556 AR to shoot cheap.
As a kid I remembered the Ruger Camp in 45acp , not to mention all the back to 1870s with the carbine in 45colt ,, i wanted that camp pretty badly , same mags and ammo perfect for truck or go bag
I want that 9mm mp40 from palmetto State is it dumb or is it a good investment
Here (Italy) now a box of 1000 cci large rifle primers cost 220 euros. 50 round s fmj 223 fiocchi, 25 euro, a box of 50 9mm fmj 14,5 euros
I think pcc don't make sense because I can't put it in a holster, and if I ever need a long gun...I will want the barrier defeating capability of the "battle rifle"....those are the only two scenarios I see me not getting into a fight I can't win......
Now for home defense I think they have their place.
I came up on a very good deal for a PTR 91 recently, just mounted a 1-6 lpvo and it is quite heavy. I will try to put at least 500 rounds down range this year on it, luckily there is a 600 yard range not too far from my house. Its definitely not my first choice for SHTF but its fun to shoot and could add some capability to my group if I learn to utilize it well.
Should you carry fmj or hp in a pcc???
“Over penetration “ can be useful in a shtf scenario
great backdrop update trench. I absolutely need a pcc absolutely before a .308 rifle of any kind
Kinda wanting to do a pcc build in 7.62x25 if such a lower and upper existing for that cartridge.
Somebody had made some 7.62×25 barrels for an AR platform, need a bigger mag over 9mm. Build a pps 43, I have a ppsh 41 with .30 and 9 barrels. Kicks ass!
KAK Industries makes them. 7.62 x 25 ammo is not readily available.
@@ChineseChicken1 That 95 Sega saturn commercial is weird.
Ive been running Colt LE69XX PCC for damn near 20 years . My dad actually owns Colt 633 DOE 9mm . His is the 16" civilian version .
I've always been huge PCC fan . I freaking love my Colt LE6991 Pistol . One of the places we shoot 2Gun matches at uses CQB Format so targets are 50Y and in for the most part . Its fun being able to run 9mm PCC in a match .
My 6991 does not run certain types of JHP ammo . It will run Hornady XTP and TAP / FTX very well . I only have experience with Colt PCC for long term usage . I have shot quite a few MP5s , and MPXs . I really do like the MPX . JP IMO makes the best PCC for Competition. JP and MPX are the top doggs for sure in Competition.
308Win brass is infinitely reloadable. I'm still reloading Federal Gold Medal Match brass originally from ammo I bought in 2008. Weren't you still in high school in 2008??
I have a Beretta cx4 and man I love that thing. It runs Beretta 92 mags which is a downside being I run a Glock 19 as my edc. But that being said it is an absolute blast to shoot.
I'm sure it's a great gun but man is it ugly.
I like the perspective. Never seen it in this way. Loving the content.
Where the PCC shines is in home defense, it is not too loud and is easier to shoot than a handgun. For anything else, a Glock on your belt and an AR is the way to go.
It is interesting reading accounts from Ukraine and the popularity of battle rifle cartridges. As a matter of fact, flannel daddy had a brit fighter on who spoke highly of the performance due to ranges of engagement, body armor etc. said it drops them immediately. It has its drawbacks of course such as ammo weight etc but is viable into modern warfare. For the average home defense it absolutely works. Beyond that i am not a fan of a shorty 5.56 is more versatile imo. Thanks trench. Appreciate the videos and all the time and work you put into them.
This is why you're my favorite grenade on youtube...
Would this be a good option for your medical guy/gal or comms? Like, people who have to already carry additional equipment for their job.
I’m loving that 240 on the wall behind you. If you see this, can you tell me where you got that flag.
Great video I have few 9mm PCC ( matches to my fullsize pistol choices) and AR-15 .300blkout and AK47 7.62x39 for close range and midrange. If I need to do work after 300 yards I go bolt action and in .300WM. I shoot decent amount(not as much as I used to kids take up my free time football season) and had a traning class 2 months ago.
All good points Trench. Also easier for many folks to make follow on shots.
I have a feeling you are about to set UA-cam on fire with this one 😂
Does anybody think 556 in a 22 inch barrel with a scope and no spotter is sensible?
No.
@@huwhitecavebeast1972 So what's a sensible barrel length without a spotter?
@@johnywhat8601 I'd say 18-20 is the best compromise if you are going for distance. After 20 inches there is really no added benefit.
MPX
Thing get progressively harder at distance especially under stress or off hand
If you take us bandolier, open flap and put velcro on top instead of button, you gonna have ability to carry 3 32 rnd glock mags in each pouch so total 9. You can put velcro inside and put inserts inside. You can put med kit inside. You can carry it as pouch on side or add strap and make chest rig of it. All perfect for pcc
A 12 minute video on why to buy an AR15.
Discussion: Most effective barrel size for a PCC?
"Break contact and get away" you can run but you'll just die tired.
yep, but not if you dive into the briar patch
Sometimes that's true.
No man is outrunning an Apache, but you *can* move out of the center mass of a fire mission or plain mortars.
The term "dying in place" exists for a reason, too.
but but but Ukraine and the trench warfare @@SynerG4ce . lol, 🤣
@@SynerG4ce large numbers in dispersion, that chopper has to land at some point. Use your head.
Yep!!!! Its good tp have a pcc that takes the most common pistol caliber. I have an Aero PC9 myself and love it.
How does a PCC in 9mm do anything better than, say, any 9mm pistol?
@@timsimmons9995 The 4 points of contact, shoulder, cheek, both hands makes it easier to hold steadier for farther targets 100yards and even farther is very doable if you know what the bullet trajectory is doing.
Excellent video 👏💪
Idk why i never considered getting a PCC , especially with how cheap 9mm is compared to 556. I might have to do that
What most people fail to realize is that they aren't in the military, aren't going to be resupplied, have no artillery, mortar or airstrike capabilities. You have zero reinforcements coming to your rescue so you only get to have one rifle that can do everything... hunting big game, capable of doing anti-aircraft, anti vehicle, shoot through most walls , and take out communication and power equipment. Old school infantrymen were supposed to be able to do everything with their weapon if they were separated from their units. Today's short barreled tacticool carbines are basically PDWs cuz the military has a huge support network behind it. We're not going to be in a bunch of firefights or shoot up lots of ammo if we get into one. That's suicide. We hit and then we melt away or we just avoid it altogether. I'd like to see someone go up against big game that's aggressively attacking them with a pistol caliber carbine or a short barreled 223. I'll take my 308 G-3 that has huge parts and magazine availability fairly cheap and if I had to use it in hand to hand combat it won't break into pieces like my M-16 did when I was in the military.
My load out consists of 4 mags in a chest pouch and 1 in the gun for 100 rds total. I can't carry as much as you can of 223 but I don't have to shoot someone 6-7 times to put them down like is common in today's combat using 223.
So if you only can have one gun.... make sure you can get a rifle that is capable of doing it all cuz we don't have the luxury of carrying several different guns to take care of different tasks. Don't fall for the sales hype to get you to buy more guns instead of more ammo to practice with.
So 50 BMG ? Unless we find a warehouse full of 308 black tips anyway 😂
@@JohnnyReb-tr2fs dumb comment, anti vehicle and anti material is a niche role, perhaps extreme range, but we aren't assasins.
I have no stake in this fight, because I don't own either. I'm just here to enjoy the video and say those flags are lookin' sick broham
but then all your rounds get caught by body armor no?
I’m a AR10 and M1A enjoyer myself but I’m not gonna argue with his points here. My AR10 is more setup as a heavy DMR and the M1A is just for fun. But I actually train more with my AR9 than either of my .308 guns. When I lived in AZ, it was fun to take the .308 guns out to 700ish yards but now I’m in MI and only do that a couple times a year. I able to take a deer with the AR10 this fall but even that shot was only 150 yards.
Although my first pick would be my X95, I have become very Comfortable with my GHM9. Its size and weight are very advantageous. ...... but @ 4:10 You may not want to engage someone at distance, but they may want to engage you at distance and if all you have is 9mm, you don't stand a chance against 556 with an eighteen inch barrel
I’m both crowds and I enjoy all of it.
Appreciate your perspective...words of wisdom...
It's situation and terrain dependent. Think about likely scenarios and the terrain in your area or where you anticipate being and pick the right tool for the job. One isn't better than the other, they just fill different uses better or worse.
Now he hates the Banshee….
I have a Kriss Vector chambered in 10mm. I absolutely love it. Yeah, people are always saying stuff like "Pfft yeah thats just meant to look cool" or "you wasted your money on that thing? Wow."
Both have a place on the field. I don't own a PCC myself but I do recognize the niche that it fills in the personal/home defense and executive protection fields.
Trench is correct in the context that he lays out. There is a time and place for either platform.
How does a PCC in 9mm do anything better than, say, any 9mm pistol?
Yeah. What you said... I hate recoil. I hate weight. And I hate dropping $1.75 every time I go bang. But mostly I miss too much to go with .308
Quick question: When SHTF, who's gonna be "designating" the "designated marksmen"?
Thor
odin
Whoever is the best shot.
Never dabbled in either side of this debate, so no wisdom to dish out here. Love the new back drop though Trench!
So why is army adopting the SIG in 6.8 ?
What is an sks considered?
where did you get those flags on the background? i like them
I own 2 long guns besides a shotgun. Sig AR15 type carbine and a MP5 (semi auto) Spent years shooting the AR platform, but probably shoot the MP5 more now due to it being cheaper, and when I go to range only having to carry 9mm which I also use in my M&P pistol. Availability is also a factor. Thanks for all the great content.
I am currently thinking of building a PCC... I think this video has sold me on it. It was on either a PCC or a 762x39... and I think this video sold me on doing the PCC first.
How does a PCC in 9mm do anything better than, say, any 9mm pistol?
@@timsimmons9995 easier to stabilize + less recoil = more accurate
I think it’s adorbs that the newer generation are so heavily involved with PCC’s. But they are nothing new. What is new is using pistol mags in a carbine style AR. Anything that accepts a Glock mag is nothing more than a range toy. At some point, it will fail…period. PCC’s have a terrible track record of breaking the bolt catch because the AR platform was never designed for the longer BCG travel caused by angle the double stack single feed Glock mags. The only mags that should be trusted are Colt style mags in an AR style carbine. Colt mags are double stack double feed, designed for actual SMG’s. Basically the Colt style mags seat straight up and down, eliminating the need to create a special mag release and bolt catch specific to that style lower. The Glock mags funnels one round at a time through the top of the mag at an exaggerated angle. The Colt Mags feed from both left and right sides evenly and uses the existing mag release and bolt catch (if desired). The reason the bolt catch failure rate is so high, especially on the Glock mag PCC’s is because the mag is extended forward so far. The heavier buffer and longer Bolt travel causes excessive force transfer to the bolt catch. The Banshee addresses the issue somewhat using a milled bolt catch and a guide bin on the top edge of the barrel breech to aid in feeding.
Bottom line, if you must use a PCC for other than range work….get an HK or get one that uses Colt mags.
PTR makes an MP5 clone that is smooth and accurate. Highly recommend it. That Banshee is badass as well
I keep a keltec 2000 that runs the same mags as my Glock 19. I use the higher capacity mags for the rifle and I keep it folded in my “get home bag” in my truck.
Hi Point Carbine
I liked this video. One thing is that Walmart in particular will have a lot of 6.5 and 308 and 3006 and absolutely none 9mm🤣
I own a couple battle rifles. Fired them a lot over the years. I keep a stock pile of ammo for them. Cant shoot em as often as I used to and still keep stockpile up. I recently purchased the new s&w fpc and absolutely love it. 9mm is so much cheaper. Therefore the tack driving 9mm gets a lot more play time rn. I think everyone should have both and always keep options open.
Ask the 22nd SAS what they think of the MP5
I own both, M1carbine(PPCish) and M1 garand (BR)
Both ammunitions are uncommon 😳
👁👄👁
I like my m1 carbine (but would grab my ar)... and can actually afford to feed it too. It is in between a PCC and a battle rifle round, basically an intermediate round so it can defeat soft armor, reach a little farther, holds plenty too, lightweight aswell, and easy to maintain. Its only downside is 30 carbine will be harder ammo to find than other rounds.
Why have a rifle sized pistol when you can have a rifle sized rifle? (5.56/7.62x39)
Although the ammo is cheap and it is good for training, I certainly don't see myself going to battle with something that can't even penetrate soft armor. Still agree that it's better than a battle rifle though due to weight/ammo capacity.
Well he is running a subgun and I believe that’s what he is alluding to. I wouldn’t run a 16in 9mm. 9in barrel max.
lol because I can afford to have it
So im not a big gun person, so i do a lot of research on certain ones if im interested in buying one. I own an AR pistol which i know isn’t the same as a pistol carbine, but i do want a pistol carbine and wanted to see your take on it. Anyway I have .223 wylde ar pistol at 7.5 inches. So my question is: if knowing i have the ar pistol should i still get the pistol carbine? I mean on one hand yes tø familiarize myself with different types of weapons at least as a civilian, but on the other, id rather be proficient with the current weapons i have and pour money into ammo and training. I currently have a AR-15 and an AR pistol. So i guess i have a battle rifle for minecraft? I don’t know Hoss, thoughts?