Directing On The Page Comments Craig D Griffiths
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- Опубліковано 20 тра 2024
- In this episode we take an in depth look at first time writers and how they direct on the page and how successful their films were.
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This is really helpful to me as a screenwriter, been struggling on whether to add camera directions in my script. thank you
Thank you. Avoiding something that is needed can only be harmful to a project.
I took a look at your channel. That is a very important topic (mental health) and it is good you are creating content in that arena.
adding camera directions in your script is not only not needed, it is actually harmful. It's the director's job to decide what the camera does, not the writer. What you want to do instead is write your scene in such a way that it makes the director decide to move the camera the way you want, without the director knowing you wanted them to do it! ...Write your scene in such a way that the director can see it in their head when they read your words. Thats the mark of a good writer... If a director sees camera direction in the script they will likely throw out the direction because they will want to move the camera the way they want. Don't set yourself up for disappointment.
In my mind, I am not trying to get the director to do what I want. I am telling my version of the story. The director is an adult capable of making their own choices. If you listen to the BAFTA lectures, you'll hear David S Goyer say he adds things like camera direction (sparingly if you have ever read his work) to let the director know that he has thought it through and isn't writing something impossible to visualise.
@@craig.d.griffiths if you're not trying to get to the director then why put camera directions, when thats the director's job? ...the job of the screen writer is NOT to think about the camera, it's to tell the story. the job of the director is to figure out how to translate that story through the camera.
p.s. I agree...this 'we see' argument has just gotten way out of control. It's used, as you say, sparingly -- and only noticed if it isn't.
There are so many aspects to that as well. People cling to axioms like this as they feel secure. They don’t how to use it, so they avoid it. It would just be better to use it and learn when it was done badly.
Thanks.
I mean, I'm happy it was used in the script for The Holdovers. On the other hand, I can site many scripts that don't use it. I can also site scripts that were written more like novels. (Have you read the script for Princess Bride? It seriously reads like a novel. Doesn't mean it's proper) Just because it was used in a script that was produced into a movie is not a good excuse to use it. There are always examples of improperly written scripts that get made, that doesn't justify learning bad writing habits. "We see" is redundant and therefore unnecessary... Not to mention that David Hemingson is kind of established already. If you or I, as unknown writers, present an actual producer a script with "we see" they will pass on it, with the impression that we don't know how to properly format a script.
Yes, I was trying to be quick with my example, I apologize for not being thorough. Here is how I would actually write that:
INT. KITCHEN - DAY
JOHN stands by the counter, he does not see: outside the window, MARK and KATE kiss.
You want to write what actually physically happens on the screen, which means you want to write what the characters do or do not see, not what the audience sees. The fact that it's written means the audience sees it.
The only thing I would ask, is it better to emulate professional produced writers or unproduced writers.
No one is going to judge work based on a person’s experience. They may have expectations, or may be a fan. The work is good or not. That is not judged by the existence of two words. Bad writing is bad writing if “we see” is in there or not in there.
In the “directing on the page” video released this week I give multiple examples of first time sales that contain all sort of so called “no-nos”.
Thanks for the comment.
@@craig.d.griffiths in re: produced or unproduced writers... thats not the real question at hand. I can site you plenty of examples of produced scripts that do not use "we see." ...plenty of scripts with improper formatting still get made. it was just harder for it to get made.
in re: good writing not judged by "we see"... True, a script is not judged good or bad based on the existence or non-existence of those two words... BUT the existence of those two words will suggest to an actual professional producer that this particular writer is inexperienced and unprofessional, giving them a reason to pass on the script.
People who read scripts for producers to consider buying receive SO many scripts every day. They have piles and piles of scripts to get through. They have read TONS of scripts, and can INSTANTLY tell if the writer knows what they are doing or not. You don't want to give them a reason to put yours down.
But please feel free to keep using "we see" if you feel you need to. Just be aware that you're only making things harder for yourself, unnecessarily.
I am afraid you have that backwards. Those two words have no weight or impact on professionalism or how work is perceived. However, having an overly complex sentence or more words than needed to avoid "we see". Will feel wrong, or like something is missing.
I person (director, producer, financier) doesn't need a reason to say no. I had a financier ask a producer I was working with to change the inciting incident from a pandemic to an environmental disaster. I did the rewrite. They read it said no anyway.
Of course there are probably more screenplays without "we see" than ones with "we see". But this is no proof that these screenplays are bad. I just found the most successful movies that came from "first sale specs". Most of them had "we see".
@@craig.d.griffiths You are absolutely kidding yourself if you think that "we see" won't reflect your level of professionalism, and that the reader won't pick up on that, and that won't effect their decision to keep reading or not.
they still said no because they are in fact looking for reasons to say no. think about it, they have a pile of scripts to read, all at varying levels of experience, knowledge, and skill. when they can see within the first page whether the writer knows what they are doing or not, that will absolutely inform whether they want to stick with that writer for a hundred pages. it's an investment of their limited time.
why would they waste their time reading a script written by someone who obviously doesn't know what they are doing?
my point in saying there are more scripts that don't say "we see" was not to argue against saying "we see," but to say thats not a good argument. there are plenty of scripts that have "we see" and plenty that don't, so this is not a good argument either way... and basing what you do off a writer's first spec script is probly the worst thing you can do, because usually the first script is from BEFORE they learned proper industry formatting... wouldn't it be better to learn from a script they wrote later in their career, when they knew more what they were doing?
My friend, you are making your life harder by sticking to these things. You're going to signal to people that you are inexperienced, and amateurish, that you wrote from hopes and dreams and wishes, instead of knowledge... which absolutely will make them stop reading your script... because if you don't even know proper basic formatting, then why would they think you can tell a good story? ...they won't even get far enough into your script to see the amazing story you wrote.
and you're absolutely kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
Yes, if you do it well, you will look very professional.
Craig, you seem like a great guy, but I think you don't get a lot of traffic because people wonder what sort of experience or credits you have as a screenwriter?
I have a few minor. I say that all the time. I refer to myself as “the bargain end of town”. I’ll throw my IMDB link in the notes. Thanks for this, it is something I haven’t considered.
I also think the channels that do well, which isn’t really my goal, are the “5 secrets to success” or “You must have these 20 things”.
I am all about writers developing their craft and then doing what they see is needed.
Thanks again.
I'm sorry, I had to pause the video to say something. It's maybe not a good idea to look at a writer's first scripts as examples of what to or not to do. The first script is often written before they learn proper formatting. Also, Quentin Tarantino is NOT a good example or proper formatting. He famously rejects proper formatting. He is on record as saying a script should be more like a novel and less like blue prints for a movie and thats simply not true. Thats precisely the opposite of what it should be. He is wrong. He is an anomaly. He is the exception that proves the rule. Everyone knows he did not go to film school, he "went to films." This means very clearly that when he wrote Reservoir Dogs he was not knowledgeable in proper formatting, and that remains true to this day.
If you or I, as unknown writers, deliver to an actual producer a script with camera direction, that producer will pass on the script, assuming we don't know how to properly format a script. A screen play should not, I repeat NOT, have camera directions. that is not the job of the writer, it's the job of the director. Let the director decide what the camera should do.
Instead, your job as the writer, is to write the script in such a way that you make the director do what you want them to do without them knowing you wanted them to do it! Make the director want to move the camera the way you thought it should be moved, and make them think it was their idea. You do that by writing what happens in the shot in such a way that the director (or any reader) can see it in their head when they read your words.
Thomas, formatting is a function of a document and not a story element. If you left justified everything, the format would be completely broken and hard to read, but the story would remain unchanged.
All the camera direction examples and other things like "we see" and "reveal" are just a way of telling visual stories.
@@craig.d.griffiths you're right, formatting is a function of a document, that exactly why it exists though. That's why there is a proper and an improper way to write a script. A script is a blue print for a film, so it has very specific requirements for it's formatting. Ignoring that will just make your life more difficult in the long run.
yeah, using camera directions, and things like "we see" are ways to tell the visual story... but they are the wrong way.
@@craig.d.griffiths if you just want to write a good story without worrying about formatting, then write a novel. A script is a very specific document with very specific formatting needs, and there are reasons for those needs.
remember, the audience for your script is not the general public, its the production team thats making the film. those people require specific information so they can do their jobs.
this is why things like blue prints are formatted in specific ways... and you need to understand that a script is a blue print for a movie.
@ThomasTulak let’s not get into the blueprint debate.
Again, format has nothing to do with words, just word placement.
@@craig.d.griffiths sir, I don’t know what experience you have, but I have been on both the writing and production side. I have both written scripts and produced them. I released a feature on streaming earlier this very year… I can tell you, yes scripts are blue prints. The people who are making the film, the casting director, the wardrobe designer, the cinematographer, these people just need details so they can do their jobs. The script needs to make it easy for them to find the info they need. This is why formatting exists. If you think anything different then you’re handicapping yourself.
And you’re incorrect, formatting includes word choice and word placement. It literally has to.
However I can see you are married to your improper formatting, so I’m finished wasted my time trying to help you. You keep writing “we see” and “we’ll see” how much longer it takes for you to get produced.
Good luck