Great video! I run the MS-3 into the amp's effects loop. And in front of the amplifier I have a heating pad, wah and compressor. The built-in MS-3 compressor loses its meaning in such a connection and you have to connect a separate one. The noise gate also does not want to work in this connection; it does not have enough power to block the noise during pauses. You can add effects to the MS-3, but I plan to eventually switch to full analog audio. With this connection, the MS-3 does not spoil the sound, everything works clean.
Buffer buffer buffer. It's a necessity when running 4CM. You can have the best, gold, $10,000 cables and inevitably you are making the signal travel a further distance and there will be tone loss, applies for this unit or standalone traditional pedals. It is said this unit has built in buffers but that they are not that great (an irony for boss because most of their pedals are the standard for buffers), so an input buffer is suggested. As early as possible in the chain, if you can, guitar, buffer then everything. Except if you are running a fuzz, then put it after the fuzz or the buffer will make the fuzz start doing funky things. Then for the fx loop, SEND, buffer, input of the 1st pedal in the fx loop chain (or in this case input of the loop). That will keep the signal nice and strong and should sound pretty much as close as going straight. On my setup I have 2 buffers indeed, a One Control that is built into my switching system, OC10 (by One Control of course) and that's my input buffer. And for the fx loop, a Suhr one tucked underneath the board before going back to the switching system for the post-preamp pedals (usually just delay and reverb, occasionally some modulation thou I prefer it in the front 90% of the time). Excellent demo BTW, I know I sounded like I'm complaining and forgot to say awesome demo XD. I just went on and on with the buffers thing :)
I run a similar rig with a plexi clone and a Boss ms-3. What I found works for me is putting my overdrive in the loop with my amp, so it's always on for heavy sounds. Then when I want cleans I just turn that loop off and the signal path skips the overdrive and the preamp. It's not perfect, but it works pretty good. As a gigging musician the little Boss ms-3 is great IMO. Digging into the button assignments you're able to do all sorts of crazy things (like turn knobs within patches with a button press). The only thing I really dislike about the ms-3 is it's flanger effect.
ONe of the nice things about using a clean amp and using reverb and delay before the preamp is convenient. I just hate using pedals for gain and distortion, so I like you have to use the delay after the preamp in the loop..
Hmm I don't really notice any tone loss with my rig, but I agree in this video you're losing a bit of volume and it sounds a tad darker. The ms-3 has an adjustable output level you could use to balance it out, or perhaps it was set low by accident? It is a shame you don't like it, for me it replaced a whole rack full of equipment and helped me downsize my rig
@@MrPolevaulter As Deadite8593 says, the tone suck you are experimenting is because you have to increase the output level in the chain. I've had to do it in my 2 tube amps it will depend on the effects loop, and it works fine without hiss or changes on tone ....
Hi, yes!, that's what is happening to Elmo , I have the output level set to 150(instead of 100). It will depend in the kind of effect loop you have in your amp.
I too, was a kid back in the 80's. Let's drink to that! **Hic!** I haven't used any multi effect in years, but I do have a Zoom G5 laying around somewhere and it has a nice tube booster in it. Might have to dig it up and play with it. Thanks for your review!
I use a similar set up, I had to use the on board EQ to get rid of the alteration to my normal tone and also as stated had to also adjust volume out and in on the pedal board.
Ambient Tone is Perfect! Your Wah Tone is Killer! Your Chops are Smooth and Powerful. I Bought the Mooer Blak Truck, 7 Analog Pedals in One(including Tuner) it has it's own Loop Where I add a Brown Sound 3 Overdrive a 2nd Delay and a 2nd Noise Gate!. I also picked Up a Mooer PE100 with 100 Effects and a good Drum Machine, Pretty good for about $60.00 Runs on Batteries and is the Size of an I-Phone in a Steel Casing. Good Revue Elmo, Best Wishes Always!
Dude, you have some SERIOUS chops. Great vid on the MS-3, too. I'm still learning mine. I've gotten some very good tones out of it as a standalone unit, and can be used as one. Still haven't built a board around yet, though. As I learn the unit better, I will.
i use the ms3 in 4cm, sort of experienced sililar, output of ms3 is low with factory settings, my fix is a buffer from the loop out to front of the amp and boost the master patch output for your fx return, better!
Your main issue with the tone of the unit is due AF method and 24 bits resampling DAC (Adaptive Focus method) As the webpage describes its as a proprietary method from Roland & BOSS that vastly improves the signal-to-noise, so it changes the analog signal to digital in the first step of the input. I think it is great to have this unit, but I wanted to hear what really does this audio conversion to the signal. Also your amp is waiting for a 1 MOhm input and this device only does output an small amount of 1 kohms wich is related usually with loss of brigtness (Boss pedals also resamples the impedance of the guitar with the buffer, so you can experiment it how much it really affects this step). From the video I totally notice the tone problem. Nice review, as always, you are totally honest with us.
the MS-3 has a MASTER section with global tone settings (low parametric mid, high) as well as a GLOBAL menu that seems to do the same thing. Probably a recipe for complex and problematic tone tweaks, but I wonder if you need to look more at what's happening there? Obviously, the MS-3 adds some kind of buffered processing so a bit of EQing might make it come alive.
I know this vid is kinda old, but I just picked one of these up and am looking to set it up with the 4CM. I saw that other video where he was not troubled by it. Anyway, I’m wondering if you sorted it out or just got rid of it, what happened? I think what could be a cause is the MS-3 loop’s send hasn’t the ability to drive the long effects loop cables. Maybe sticking a buffer between Loop3 and the amp’s effect return would solve it. I also see some loop settings for output level that could compensate the drop in level. As another commenter mentioned comparing without the gate would be good more fair. At the moment I have the Loop3 return going to a delay pedal and an EQ (it may be kind of redundant given the in-built EQ’s). If there’s as a noticeable top-end roll off, the 10-band Graphic EQ could compensate. I’m thinking (and hoping) that sticking buffered stomp box after loop3 return will solve the tone suck. How bad it is could be totally dependent on the cable losses and the the amp effect loop’s input impendence and the amount of drive on its send output.
Who knows is it problem or no, but I think that if You get sound You like, no way to think in what way it was done - result is the main thing! BTW one more great overview from, I'm not afraid to say it, the best guitar player in Finland, and who knows, maybe one of the world's best! Thank You Elmo, I'm always getting a lot of positive energy, mixed with your invaluable experience, from your vids! Happy humpday )))
Been thinking of that, but I have a ton of other stuff already done (but not released), and some stuff waiting to be done, so I've no idea when that will happen. Oh, and thanks :)
Are u sure if u put an external noise suppressor u don't get the same problem?? I mean, are u sure signal loss it's related to ms3 unit or it can be related to a whatever noise suppressor u put there?? It seems very similar to what I get from boss ns2 when I raise threshold...
Strange. I carefully checked mine and it did not affect my tone in any noticeable way besides volume. So I had to adjust the volume of the unit to match it without ms3, then the sone is the same.
You must be reading my mind.. :-p.. I was thinking about one of these last night in case I get pedal nuts. I use the same wah. What a great wah man.. That thing also has extra effects I'm told.. It looks complicated though. I'm a programmer by trade, but I hate complicated shit. As a programmer my job was to make them less complicated.. User interface guy.. :-} It seemed like it did suck a little tone or volume. It seemed close though, but just the amp and your guitar was louder on my TV. Just FYI. Great video. Your vids rock.. I really dig them.. Hey, may I ask sir? DId you like the Origin marshall any better or less than one of the DSLs? I'm going to look at the combo's.. 50 watt Origin and 40 and whatever the other less powerful 20 or 15 watt DSL at the music store this weekend. I hope to be playing in a 3 piece blues and blues rock band and need a tube amp.. Currently just using my 50 watt Katana, which would work in a pinch, but still not a Marshall.. close, but not close enough.. :-p.. Thanks for the value you provide us sir. I mean that.. Hope you and yours are well.. I'm going to jam now.. :-)
Silly review. Love your playing but your assessment is off. Of course it sounds different than running a cable and a pedal straight in. It would also sound different with a different cable length and a different pedal. Sounding different isn't tone suck. If you want a bit more volume and brightness from the MS3, add an EQ block to add some.
The HM-2 pedal, I picked up in the very early 80's, it's an original Japanese build and came with a brass plaque stating it was the 3 millionth Boss unit ever made. The pedal is still going strong and the brass doodad is still on my key chain to this day. When are you going to test a Blackstar amp? I have the Blackstar HT Stage 100 and would love to hear your opinion on this amp.
This unit is amazing in 4-cable method, Have used with BluGuitar Amp1 with great success. I have a DEEP DIVE video series for the BOSS MS-3 including getting extra FX within one patch, and striving for strymon (big verb patch). Here is playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLcpqei2Jc9BHSgTZ8tzmAvmahCGGaigC1.html&si=fxo6su9cJs-Yn6M1
Great video! I run the MS-3 into the amp's effects loop. And in front of the amplifier I have a heating pad, wah and compressor. The built-in MS-3 compressor loses its meaning in such a connection and you have to connect a separate one. The noise gate also does not want to work in this connection; it does not have enough power to block the noise during pauses. You can add effects to the MS-3, but I plan to eventually switch to full analog audio.
With this connection, the MS-3 does not spoil the sound, everything works clean.
Buffer buffer buffer. It's a necessity when running 4CM. You can have the best, gold, $10,000 cables and inevitably you are making the signal travel a further distance and there will be tone loss, applies for this unit or standalone traditional pedals. It is said this unit has built in buffers but that they are not that great (an irony for boss because most of their pedals are the standard for buffers), so an input buffer is suggested. As early as possible in the chain, if you can, guitar, buffer then everything. Except if you are running a fuzz, then put it after the fuzz or the buffer will make the fuzz start doing funky things. Then for the fx loop, SEND, buffer, input of the 1st pedal in the fx loop chain (or in this case input of the loop). That will keep the signal nice and strong and should sound pretty much as close as going straight.
On my setup I have 2 buffers indeed, a One Control that is built into my switching system, OC10 (by One Control of course) and that's my input buffer. And for the fx loop, a Suhr one tucked underneath the board before going back to the switching system for the post-preamp pedals (usually just delay and reverb, occasionally some modulation thou I prefer it in the front 90% of the time).
Excellent demo BTW, I know I sounded like I'm complaining and forgot to say awesome demo XD. I just went on and on with the buffers thing :)
Exactly! I have my “always on “ pedals before the MS-3; this includes a Vertex Boost to buffer my input. Sounds clean and articulate.
I run a similar rig with a plexi clone and a Boss ms-3. What I found works for me is putting my overdrive in the loop with my amp, so it's always on for heavy sounds. Then when I want cleans I just turn that loop off and the signal path skips the overdrive and the preamp. It's not perfect, but it works pretty good. As a gigging musician the little Boss ms-3 is great IMO. Digging into the button assignments you're able to do all sorts of crazy things (like turn knobs within patches with a button press). The only thing I really dislike about the ms-3 is it's flanger effect.
ONe of the nice things about using a clean amp and using reverb and delay before the preamp is convenient. I just hate using pedals for gain and distortion, so I like you have to use the delay after the preamp in the loop..
A lot of people put a buffer before the input (even though it already has internal buffers) and that restores the sound.
Cool.
Hmm I don't really notice any tone loss with my rig, but I agree in this video you're losing a bit of volume and it sounds a tad darker. The ms-3 has an adjustable output level you could use to balance it out, or perhaps it was set low by accident? It is a shame you don't like it, for me it replaced a whole rack full of equipment and helped me downsize my rig
Yeah, I was hoping for something similar.
@@MrPolevaulter As Deadite8593 says, the tone suck you are experimenting is because you have to increase the output level in the chain. I've had to do it in my 2 tube amps it will depend on the effects loop, and it works fine without hiss or changes on tone ....
Hi, yes!, that's what is happening to Elmo , I have the output level set to 150(instead of 100). It will depend in the kind of effect loop you have in your amp.
@@jorgeband1111 what output level?, you mean the patch level?. the boss ms-3 does not have a master output level.
I too, was a kid back in the 80's. Let's drink to that! **Hic!** I haven't used any multi effect in years, but I do have a Zoom G5 laying around somewhere and it has a nice tube booster in it. Might have to dig it up and play with it. Thanks for your review!
Kippis!
I use a similar set up, I had to use the on board EQ to get rid of the alteration to my normal tone and also as stated had to also adjust volume out and in on the pedal board.
Yeah, a bit annoying.
Ambient Tone is Perfect! Your Wah Tone is Killer! Your Chops are Smooth and Powerful. I Bought the Mooer Blak Truck, 7 Analog Pedals in One(including Tuner) it has it's own Loop Where I add a Brown Sound 3 Overdrive a 2nd Delay and a 2nd Noise Gate!. I also picked Up a Mooer PE100 with 100 Effects and a good Drum Machine, Pretty good for about $60.00 Runs on Batteries and is the Size of an I-Phone in a Steel Casing. Good Revue Elmo, Best Wishes Always!
Thanks man!
Dude, you have some SERIOUS chops. Great vid on the MS-3, too. I'm still learning mine. I've gotten some very good tones out of it as a standalone unit, and can be used as one. Still haven't built a board around yet, though. As I learn the unit better, I will.
Thank you very much :)
i use the ms3 in 4cm, sort of experienced sililar, output of ms3 is low with factory settings, my fix is a buffer from the loop out to front of the amp and boost the master patch output for your fx return, better!
I aggrer 100% with any peday/Unit that sucks the life out of your sound but do you think a BOOSTER in the line may improve any losses with the MS-3???
It might, but I'm not sure.
This loop switcher was really interesting me, so this video is welcome! Let's see how much I like the digital integrated effects :P
Your main issue with the tone of the unit is due AF method and 24 bits resampling DAC (Adaptive Focus method) As the webpage describes its as a proprietary method from Roland & BOSS that vastly improves the signal-to-noise, so it changes the analog signal to digital in the first step of the input. I think it is great to have this unit, but I wanted to hear what really does this audio conversion to the signal. Also your amp is waiting for a 1 MOhm input and this device only does output an small amount of 1 kohms wich is related usually with loss of brigtness (Boss pedals also resamples the impedance of the guitar with the buffer, so you can experiment it how much it really affects this step). From the video I totally notice the tone problem. Nice review, as always, you are totally honest with us.
Thanks! :)
G-SYSTEMと比較してどちらがいいですか？
I use a Vertex Boost as a buffer and I don’t notice any tone issues.
the MS-3 has a MASTER section with global tone settings (low parametric mid, high) as well as a GLOBAL menu that seems to do the same thing. Probably a recipe for complex and problematic tone tweaks, but I wonder if you need to look more at what's happening there? Obviously, the MS-3 adds some kind of buffered processing so a bit of EQing might make it come alive.
It was sucking tone quite bad.
I know this vid is kinda old, but I just picked one of these up and am looking to set it up with the 4CM. I saw that other video where he was not troubled by it.
Anyway, I’m wondering if you sorted it out or just got rid of it, what happened?
I think what could be a cause is the MS-3 loop’s send hasn’t the ability to drive the long effects loop cables. Maybe sticking a buffer between Loop3 and the amp’s effect return would solve it. I also see some loop settings for output level that could compensate the drop in level. As another commenter mentioned comparing without the gate would be good more fair.
At the moment I have the Loop3 return going to a delay pedal and an EQ (it may be kind of redundant given the in-built EQ’s). If there’s as a noticeable top-end roll off, the 10-band Graphic EQ could compensate. I’m thinking (and hoping) that sticking buffered stomp box after loop3 return will solve the tone suck.
How bad it is could be totally dependent on the cable losses and the the amp effect loop’s input impendence and the amount of drive on its send output.
I got rid of it, so didn't really research the issue.
Who knows is it problem or no, but I think that if You get sound You like, no way to think in what way it was done - result is the main thing!
BTW one more great overview from, I'm not afraid to say it, the best guitar player in Finland, and who knows, maybe one of the world's best! Thank You Elmo, I'm always getting a lot of positive energy, mixed with your invaluable experience, from your vids! Happy humpday )))
Happy day :D
Great video!! Thanks for it. We urgently need your review of the hx stomp 😛😉
Been thinking of that, but I have a ton of other stuff already done (but not released), and some stuff waiting to be done, so I've no idea when that will happen. Oh, and thanks :)
Are u sure if u put an external noise suppressor u don't get the same problem?? I mean, are u sure signal loss it's related to ms3 unit or it can be related to a whatever noise suppressor u put there?? It seems very similar to what I get from boss ns2 when I raise threshold...
I've never had that with the NS-2.
First ! Love your videos, your so fun dude. Please test the vox vt40x !
I have a couple of Vox reviews on the way. I might check that one out as well. And thanks :)
Use a Mesa Boogie Clearlink Send buffer in the effects loop and wala.
Could the problem be all the additional cables, or is it definitely the MS-3?
It's not the cables. I have the same amount in my regular setup.
Good test!
Strange. I carefully checked mine and it did not affect my tone in any noticeable way besides volume. So I had to adjust the volume of the unit to match it without ms3, then the sone is the same.
I should put preset volume on 170 to match it with the volume without MS3.
You must be reading my mind.. :-p.. I was thinking about one of these last night in case I get pedal nuts. I use the same wah. What a great wah man.. That thing also has extra effects I'm told.. It looks complicated though. I'm a programmer by trade, but I hate complicated shit. As a programmer my job was to make them less complicated.. User interface guy.. :-}
It seemed like it did suck a little tone or volume. It seemed close though, but just the amp and your guitar was louder on my TV. Just FYI.
Great video. Your vids rock.. I really dig them..
Hey, may I ask sir? DId you like the Origin marshall any better or less than one of the DSLs? I'm going to look at the combo's.. 50 watt Origin and 40 and whatever the other less powerful 20 or 15 watt DSL at the music store this weekend. I hope to be playing in a 3 piece blues and blues rock band and need a tube amp.. Currently just using my 50 watt Katana, which would work in a pinch, but still not a Marshall.. close, but not close enough.. :-p..
Thanks for the value you provide us sir. I mean that.. Hope you and yours are well.. I'm going to jam now.. :-)
Jam well :)
Great review.
Thanks!
I use it strictly for both sy-1....
My guitar signal goes to actual amp tho. Never inside ms-3.
Check out more gear reviews: ua-cam.com/play/PLNaLwTdlpQNFGz5Eesm0Ey_pDAL1F5y21.html
Silly review. Love your playing but your assessment is off. Of course it sounds different than running a cable and a pedal straight in. It would also sound different with a different cable length and a different pedal. Sounding different isn't tone suck. If you want a bit more volume and brightness from the MS3, add an EQ block to add some.
I already got too many Boss pedals lol
Got the NS-2, BF-2, CE-5, RV-6, HM-2, TR-2 and the DD-7
:D
The HM-2 pedal, I picked up in the very early 80's, it's an original Japanese build and came with a brass plaque stating it was the 3 millionth Boss unit ever made. The pedal is still going strong and the brass doodad is still on my key chain to this day. When are you going to test a Blackstar amp? I have the Blackstar HT Stage 100 and would love to hear your opinion on this amp.
I’m running out of cable!!! George is getting upset! 🎸🔊🎶🤘🏻
Kiitos tästä! Jäi ostamatta, säästin siis 😂👍
Difficult to use. Good shredding!
いい音してますねー
This unit is amazing in 4-cable method, Have used with BluGuitar Amp1 with great success. I have a DEEP DIVE video series for the BOSS MS-3 including getting extra FX within one patch, and striving for strymon (big verb patch). Here is playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLcpqei2Jc9BHSgTZ8tzmAvmahCGGaigC1.html&si=fxo6su9cJs-Yn6M1
Great! I clicked this video to get the REVIEW of using the 4 cable method and HALF THE VIDEO is you shredding!! 😒
Yeah, life sucks, get a helmet.
It's digital so of course it sounds like shit.