ITF: Striking, Sparring, Conditioning, honest (we crosstrained with a buddy of my teacher the aspects missing from TKD regarding self defense), competition. Full contact fighting is not an official thing in ITF TKD but that is just an image upheld. The truth is broken noses and kos regardless (especially in open rookie tournaments) since some people suck at controlled high kicks and sometimes just use boxing instead (within the rules of ITF, as in, no backfists, ellbows or haymakers and similar allowed). And why the hell is it my problem anyways when my opponent falls into my kicks and punches...😎
In the Krav Maga classes I used to go to we'd do it in class and sparr at the end of class. Sparring while tired was supposed to simulate the stress of a real encounter. We'd do all sorts of sparring. Boxing, kickboxing (with boxng gloves) but also MMA-style sparring with MMA gloves. We also did some BJJ-style rolling. But anyway, getting exhausted was an important factor to (supposedly) make it more realistic. We'd do kickboxing sparring with one person having to sparr against a "fresh opponent" every minute or so while the others stood around. Once you had sparred with every one you could leave the circle and the last person to come in had to go up against all the others again. Or we'd do this stress drill exercise where one person would be surrounded by a bunch of people holding "pillows" and would have to fight their way out of the circe and run away. Every now and then the instructor would give one of the people on the outside of the circle a practice knife or stick and the person in the circle would have to deffend against attacs. It was very exhausting but was great for stamina and working under preassure.
@@yyyboy You should never ever do skill work while that tired because you develop bad habits everything you said is true except you will develop bad habits
@@kylerobison1425 Yes, I agree with you. It was also very frustrating because it wasn't very technical and tbh I usually was too tired out to do anything good. I think it might have been better to do it like that every now and then but to do most sparring after the warm up or something like that. I visited a seminar once where we did sparring right after the warm up, then kept switching between technical parts (parcticing technical aspects of fighting) and sparring. The sparring changed acording to what we had just learned. Unfortunately the instructors in the gym I trained in couldn't be convinced otherwise.
If you have to spend a lot of time thinking if your style is legit, or have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to "prove it's legit" then it's probably not legit lol.
what if u combine a few styles tho. but not is a way u mix them keep them seperate and switch between them at the appropriate times. like taekwondo and muay thai
@@sahanfernando4414 Given the fact those styles have disparate ways of doing things and fighting is a split second, often chaotic event, it's not adviseable as it would only confuse you.
@@sahanfernando4414 I think it depends what you mean by mixing them. I agree it could get confusing if you are constantly switching between mt and tkd stances mid fight. On the other hand I think it can be beneficial to some of the faster or inherently tricky to defend kicks from tkd and splice them into mt. When it comes to iffy arts, I think splicing is a good word for how they fit in solid martial arts
TKD...Striking, sparring, one steps, strength and conditioning, situational awareness, sport and competition. This is the TKD I learned in the 90s. According to YOUR list, TKD is a legit martial art. We had NO black belt package, no assurance of black belt in a specific amount of time. MY TKD training is definitely legit!
Mc dojos do exist but this is where wtf comes If its still called that. World tie Kwan do federation. When u got other countries agree ur legit then hate to say it..it is. I tried street, karate, boxing, n tkd, n might b dojo im in but i feel tkd n karate were legit. I didn't see boxing cus no legs like he said in vid, but i did tkd from 2012 i think on. Long story shorr see if other places, or countries agree ur dojo teaches legit.
Same. I train ITF and we do 9 of the 10 things (everything but transitional wrestling) that he listed. I do understand that not all schools do this, even other ITF schools, and I consider myself lucky to have found a really good instructor.
Mysifu was brutal honest said I would not fight if I were you because you basically suck but he didn't say that to hurt me he did it to protect me many coaches don't protect their fighters and yhefighters end up getting fucked up a couple actually die within hours after the fight again you look at the movie best of the best were Tommy's brother gets killed in tournament or you see these average people trying to challenge pros
The only question that must be made is: Does my style gives me what i seek? If yes, ok, that is. Now, Do i seek to be the best fighter inside a full rules combat? MMA Do i seek spiritual awareness? Kung-Fu Do i seek to defend myself in school? Boxing Do i seek to defend myself in a bar brawl? Boxing Do i seek to defend myself against drug dealers? and meth heads? Go to a shooting range Do i seek to be in physical shape? Muay Thai Do i seek to defend myself agaist my older brother? Jiu-Jitsu Do i seek to immobilize someone until help comes? Jiu-Jitsu Do i seek to defeat 10 enemies in a combat? Go to a shooting range Do i seek to survive in the woods, learn how to cook in a sardine can and making fire with prehistorical resources? Ninjutsu This list is enormous.
This is a great post. The problem I have noticed isn't that a martial art does this or that. It's the fact that sometimes certain martial arts, through dishonesty or delusion, claim they can do things which there isn't much proof of. Aikido and Iaido are great examples. Everyone knows that Aikido has a bad reputation and many people online have dog piled Aikido, the main reason being some in the Aikido community have made really silly claims over the years. I sometimes think the abuse Aikido gets is OTT, but I understand where that ire comes from. Now, Iaido is even less helpful in a fight compared to Aikido, but it doesn't get any abuse really. Why? It's because the Iaido community have never made any crazy claims about how useful their martial art is in a real world fight. Everyone doing Iaido knows exactly what it is and is not, and they aren't pretending it's something else.
But you notice drinking and a gun solves at least half of those issues 🤔 every system is spiritual and nobody on the bottom of the latter is fully effective at everything or situation my other self defense tool greatest self defense technique is keeping far distance from ftards and disloyal people or theives should be like baseball 3 strikes you're out if youre even good enough to be on my team in Olympics yougo through several screening processes including professional conduct which should be in you generally by the time you're a purple belt watch the movie best of the best you'll generally get the idea 💡 😉
@@traviscook5144 yes and I don't discredit either of those styles especially Muay Thai is one of my favorite but honestly I'd rather end things standing up rather than wrestling thats more of a back up if my stand up doesn't match up we pass up so many opportunities for straight shot right to throat cause we wanna copy something else we saw in a match
I feel like the Tae Kwon do class I take is very real. I got 6 boxes checked. I hadn’t even heard about the competition based classes until I saw your channel. This is my fifth year doing it and I’ll get my black belt by around December. That’s pretty dumb that some people get there’s in only three years. But great video!!
Arbitrarily assigning a "time in attendance" to a black belt, be it 3 years or 5 years, is still McDojoish. That's why I love the Judo way of grading. You do some theory, then you have to beat other 1st kyus in matches. Not sparring demos. Full blown matches in tournaments. And they are going for their black belts too, so they are trying to smash you just as bad. You need to beat a lot of them too (up to 15 in some countries). Under the Judo system I've seen people get a black belt in 3 years. I've also seen it take one guy 8½ years. Both of those people could legitimately fight to a black belt standard though. You're ready when you're ready and have shown you can actually fight and beat people. Not when you've attended X amount of classes and paid X amount of monthly fees to a Dojo or Dojang.
Kukkiwon-style is legit, its great in sparring, strength & conditioning, competitions. Loophole is wrestling, punching in the face, submissions. I add FMA to supplement it so if I get in a fight outside of the mats or tournaments I can defend well.
@@roguelites5225 any grapple based style should be combined with some sort of striking art and vice versa dan severn and mark kerr had to learn how to at least block strikes before they could takedown/slam you then gnp
That’s why it’s sport, not self defence. There are differences in karate styles, too. Kyokushin is full contact and often considered one of the toughest styles, but punches to the head aren’t allowed in competition. Low kicks are allowed, high kicks too. I used to spar with a kyokushin guy, and he had trouble defending against punches to the head, because they don’t train that. His kicks were lethal, though.
One of your best videos, Seth Sensei. Good to see a UA-cam Karateka defending our art, instead of trashing it. I like your focus on traditional karate vs sport karate. We are waiting for you to come and give a seminar in Spain. Oss!
I know Judo is legit, I feel good doing it and it covers most of the points. There is no striking, and sometimes the reliance on the Gi makes it unrealistic, but it definitly teaches you how to take someone down and deal with a resisting oponent. This are my checked boxes, a total of 7: - Takedowns - Transitional wrestling - Sparring - Submissions - Strength and conditioning (we allways warm up and sometimes finish the class with circuits) - Sport/Competition - Brutal Honesty (at least where I train at) - High learning capacity
I feel more judo schools should expand on atemi waza (striking). I know they can't do it in competitions, but it is still supposed to be part of the curriculum. I don't expect it to make one an amazing striker as karate or MT. But it would help round out a skill set for those wanting to learn for self defence.
Is your style legit? Very simple answer is does it do what it advertises Does your kick boxing class say self defence but its a cardio class that only does warm ups and pad work - not legit Does your aikido say meditative and discipline based - then it's legit aikido Does your aikido say self defence or combat sport - probably not legit aikido Does your karate say its traditionally okinawan but only does point systems or even no sparring - that's not legit traditional Does your karate say sport karate and only do point or kata - that's legit sport karate Etc etc But as for use that's a different issue Litteraly sparring is the most important thing There is no training for self defence either you can fight or you cant and if you don't spar you can't fight
I have this conversation maybe 3 times a year when someone floats the idea of taking a self-defense course, and I tell them that they are an absolute waste of time, at least for their stated purpose. I instead advocate that they get in shape and learn to fight. Then I point them to boxing, Muay Thai, judo, and BJJ (generally). Not that there aren't other options, but these are generally very easily found. I'll even offer to go with them to classes. Zero takers over the years. It isn't usually received well. People want to keep a feeling of safety that comes from watching videos, or taking half a dozen classes of self defense nonsense.
@@patrickrobles1036 judo and boxing are my top picks for self defence arts but their roughness and reputation can push people away. I like jkd as a self defence option for acarage but it's not very common. I would like karate to go back into its more traditional roots I think then it could be effective as self defence
Kickboxing: 5. Strength, striking, sport (although I don't care about it), sparring, honesty. Aikido: 3. Throws, depth, awareness (at least should be taught in good dojos; imho, it's an integral part of aikido) My flawless magical future mix of both which I will certainly develop one day for sure: 7 (no sports)
Striking in Judo when we STRIKE YOU WITH THE GROUND. lol. But for real, idk if the term “Judo Chop” began as a joke or a misunderstanding. Otherwise old school Judo (leg grabs and healthy understanding of ne-waza) covers a lot.
Old school is dope! From who I’ve met though on average, it usually is more competition based, hence the grading I gave it. To be fair, I’m often wrong though 😉😂
@@SenseiSeth yes it is, lol. Back in the 60's and 70's the "karate Chop" was the move everyone used in TV and film (James Bond, Star Trek). Austin Powers, being a character from that era, naturally......lol.
There is ateme-waza in judo but it's never really utilized in mainstream judo, and it's normally looking at how to defend strikes. I think it would be more beneficial for judoka to study strikes but it's not the top priority for most judoka. 😔
I was in Isshinryu most of my life and in my dojo we were allowed to aim to the head but only with controlled strikes. I'll say that in my time as a kick boxer, having practiced controlled strikes to the head not only helped me familiarize myself with finding the head as a target, but also helped me to be able to make accurate and precise strikes when I eventually went into full contact.
Alright let's rate my kung fu school - strength and conditioning: we open every class with push ups sit ups ect. Occasionally jogging -unlimited striking. Punches and kicks to the head, kicks to the legs are all allowed. -throws and take downs. Not a main focus but we've all spent many hours on throws. -Transional wrestling. Although this is not part of traditional kung fu, one of our instructors is a talented wrestler and teaches techniques frequently. -sparring. All the time. Full contact. No points. -competition. Not mandatory, but several of us compete annually -honesty. Harder to quantify, but our instructors have never coddled us. High cap learning- been training their for many years, still feel like a beginner on occasion.
At my gym they teach kyokushin, judo and kickboxing. And what I benefited from them Kyokushin benefits - close distance face to face combat - helped with my flexibility - conditioned me to take hits and me feel what getting lit is like - helped with my kicking - helped with cardio Judo benefits -throwing your opponents - getting thrown and feeling the ground is like -learning to land correctly like when I slipped on ice -back strength -Learned how to do ground work - helped built cardio -stand up game way better then before - how to do joint locks and using peoples own momentum against them( my sensei also teaches us some Japanese jiu jistu and aikido) -not only use gi but I live in a cold area where I use cloths like a gi Kickboxing benefits -punching better because they teach us boxing -Getting close toe to toe without fear and being well conditioned thanks to kyokushin - kicking got way better also thanks to kyokushin - great foot work - elbows strike(yes it's modified kickboxing but not close to mauy thai. - clinch game is ok but not as good but thanks to judo I substitute the clinch into throws and use some of the sweeps - defense like head movement, ducking, slipping, -cutting the distance Kickboxing benefits
I’m glad you bring these points up, especially to help everyone be aware of what makes a good martial arts style. I do traditional Goju Ryu karate, which you already know applies plenty of the points you mentioned.
I study WTF Tae Kwon Do, and in my school we do a whole lot more than train for competitions. We learn numerous take downs, joint locks, grappling, and how to disarm people. We also do conditioning and sparring. My school may be known for Tae Kwon Do we have starting implementing other arts like BJJ and Krav Maga to make it more in tuned for street fighting and not just tournaments that many people believe it to only be for.
9/10 Wrestling, I used to compete when I was younger, middle school through college, but now it's recreational. Have recently started training at a boxing gym for recreational purposes, though the coaches there tell me that since my goal isn't to compete, they want me to train technique and strength and conditioning for at least a month (really they just said for at least 12 lessons, so it depends on how often I go a week) before I start to spar with the others.
Great video Sensei Seth! we do most of these things in my karate school and also add weapons to the curriculum as it's part of the Okinawan culture. We have sweeps and arm bars and leg locks in our self defence as well. However due to Covid protocols we have not been sparring as of late but we hope to get back to it as we did it before the pandemic hit. Again awesome content Sensei Seth!
Love the video, I have 6 boxes checked. I’ve been training in Shotokan karate. My father also trained me from when I was younger and the older I get and more I learn the more passionate I become with the training and learning.
Hwarangdo: 1. Strength and conditioning Y 2. Striking Y 3. Takedowns, sweeps, throws Y 4. Submissions KIND OF 5. Transitional wrestling NO 6. Sparring Y 7. Situational awareness Y 8. Competition Y 9. Brutal honesty Y 10. High capacity learning Y
@@Dystisis I find this interesting actually lol. So I’ve heard of Hwarangdo but not as a martial art. I take Tae Kwon Do in TTCA (Traditional Tae Kwon Do Chungdo Kwan Association). Hwarangdo was a group of warrior in Korea made up of teenage boys trained in the early stages of Tae Kwon do probably closer to more of a Taekyon. Hwarangdo means way of the blossoming flower, it is symbolic of boys becoming men. Very interesting to hear that it is a martial art. Never knew this.
Sparring doesn't just apply with striking. Sparring in grappling can be very effective and work does your benefit. I'd rather spar in grappling and grappling only than practice striking but all I'm doing is hitting bags and pads all day.
Seems my ITF TKD style hits about 8.5 ish. We could do with more of the "transitional wrestling" and I've never been a big tournament person, though another guy at school deals with that. Oh wait.. Is it cheating if I'm the one who teaching everything so I include most of these things? (0_o)
Boxing/Krav Maga Checklist: 1. Strength and Conditioning 2. Striking. 3. Sparring. 4. Situational Awareness. 5. Competition. 6. Brutal Honesty e.g self defence + competition. 7. Grappling but not as in depth as arts like Judo or BJJ as it draws things from it
Your point about kicks and boxing is spot on. My girlfriends brother is a amateur boxer who’s been doing it for a while and I sparred him with kickboxing rules. I got in with lead kicks and a couple head kicks and I’ve only been doing kick boxing for a month.
Boxing vs Kickboxing is not this beats that.. It can go either way. See Mercer Vs Sylvia where a boxer KO's a kick boxer. Or Mayweathers fight vs that Japanese kid who's name escapes me. Boxer's can easily KO kick boxers, or the reverse is true. Kickboxing isn't this style that will automatically dominate boxing. If you are leg kicking a boxer while they are hitting you on the head with left hooks.... it's not the boxer who will come out of that exchange badly.
This should be titled "10 Factors That Make _Fighting_ Arts Styles LEGIT." By definition "martial" is related to war, and war means killing, not scoring points or listening to a ref. If you're unfamiliar with war, you can search UA-cam for "World War II" and get plenty of information on the subject. People in the octagon aren't warriors, no matter how much they juice and flex. Warriors also need to know how to not get killed. Does your martial art include regular games of tag, outside in realistic environment? Marc MacYoung says that's one of the best ways to train for street escape & evasion. Does your martial art teach verbal de-escalation? Does your martial art begin with training a way to reset/override your OODA loop when it's been derailed by an ambush? Does your martial art teach the difference between process- and resource predators, the sort of scripts they expect you to follow, and recognizing the signs to choose between compliance or fighting? Does your martial art teach you the correct way to cross a street while being chased? Does your martial art teach how to recognize and use improvised weapons and drill it until it's instinctive? Does your martial art teach throws rather than takedowns so that you're in a position to run away instead of having your head in the perfect position for a third-party soccer kick? Does your martial art teach you that the phrase "self-defense" in the presence of a cop is an admission to a crime, and now you have to dig your way out of a legal pit you just threw yourself into? Does your martial art give lip service to situational awareness, or does it actually teach realistic, predictable signs to look for, which situations call for higher alertness, which locations are _actually_ high risk, or even how to take a sidewalk corner around a building? I've seen a lot of people talk about situational awareness, but so far, I've only seen on author actually give actionable information. I ask these questions because the more I hear people debate whether such-and-such style "works," is "legitimate," or applicable in the "real world," the more I realize how divorced the community is from the very definitions of these words in actual application. MMA is very effective for fighting, until you get into a hockey fight and you find yourself locked in place by an enraged athlete with a good grip with one hand, an accurate jackhammer punching style with the other, and a reckless disregard for his skull that only getting high-sticked and eating slapshots can impart. Suddenly all those years spent perfecting your jab count for squat. If you were in a crowded bar with a buddy, and all of the sudden you're assaulted by a jealous goon and his friends who think you eyeballed the goon's girlfriend, would you rather your friend be an MMA fighter who needs the space of an octagon and hours of psyching up, or a hockey player practiced at going from zero to insane in a moment, needs barely an armlength of room to fight, and is used to jackhammer punching guys wearing helmets? I don't have a dog in this fight. And I admit I probably missed a lot because your speaking style isn't my cup of tea. I just wanted to say that the community should probably adopt a demarcation of fighting from self-defense. MMA is really mixed-fighting arts, or MFA. The perfect general wins every war without ever having a battle; the perfect martial art teaches students how to never get into a fight. Just some thoughts. Thanks in advance for your patience! Have a great day!
Frenstcht, the amount of tacti-cool, projection, and murder-boner-stroking in your post is very worrying. You very convincingly play the role of the armchair martial nerd who has never actually fought anyone, and who spends all day obsessing over paranoid hypotheticals revolving around violent crime. Take a sedative, calm down, and maybe just try a few classes at a reputable MMA gym. Chill out my dude.
@@jaketailor335 Your takeaway is the exact opposite of what I wrote. I'll paraphrase for clarity: A legit martial art doesn't just teach you to succeed in a particular rule set, it teaches you to avoid a secondary crime scene. To put it another way, if your gym or dojo doesn't train you in saying "I'm sorry," the Moe Howard eye poke, and the 100-yard dash, then it's not fully legit. Nor is breaking your hand on somebody's head a victory. Clarifying beyond this is outside my remit. Good luck!
sparring and real resistance is something that so many schools of my style dont address and train which is sad because it hurts the reputation so much. I am glad my school did sparring and hit all the things you mentioned, some with more emphasis than others but certainly sparring.
ITF TKD legit. Me happy. Put in wrestling and you have the premium package. Till I do it I use a chair or flashlight for self defense. IcyMike approved 😁
Taichi analysis: Conditioning: Yes but very slow Striking: Yes but very slow Takedowns: Yes but very slow Submissions: No Transition Wrestling: No Sparring: No Awareness: Yes but very slow Competition: Sort of (Display/Kata only) Honesty: Yes but very slow High capacity learning: Yes but very slow Total Score: 6/10, Legit, but very slow
If your taijiquan doesn't have submissions and transitional wrestling(qin na), you forgot to speed up. Sparring is called pushing hands, and it definitely exists in any program that is traditional, not this new-age "health and enlightenment" stuff. And if you want competition, other than forms, go to China. They have push hand tournaments that are purported to sometimes end in broken arms.
I take a mix kali, escrima, jkd, small circle jujitsu - pretty much covers all the bases an the last gym I was working out ( before Corona) we did boxing 1 a week. An escrima has sparing with weapons that really hurt even with protective gear on. If you haven't tried Philippine martial arts you are seriously missing a world of painful fun. But to each his own.
I have been looking for a gym that has BJJ, Krav, Kali, and Kick Boxing. I feel like for the average person that's a hell of a good defense/fighting mixture. So far I haven't found it though. I hate having to pay multiple gyms to train various skills or having to limit myself and focus on only one until mastery and then moving to another etc
Bruh, I feel hella good watching these videos cuz im a teenager who's been doing MMA/BJJ/MUAY THAI since I was 5. Feels like a flex when I get all da points :)
Amazing how many boxes you can check with MMA training where you learn a well-rounded skillset that allows you to beat great strikers by taking them to the ground or beat grapplers by denying takedowns and working out of the clinch, then follow up by doing intense strength and conditioning. Add occasional situational awareness and you have everything.
@@SenseiSeth It's not the only way to get there but it's an effective way. It's cool how traditional martial artists have seen how their arts were lacking stepped up to the plate in recent years and started to put the techniques that used to be in their curriculums to make them well rounded back in and even added some of the new stuff we've learned from modern MMA. It's pretty cool that I have friends who train judo, jiujitsu, kung fu, and karate who all know how to fight for real, and I think that's probably not how it used to be in the 80s and 90s
I got 8 originally i had 9 because i counted submissions but we very rarely practice that but besides that i dont think those 8 factors are from my style necessarily but more from my DOJO. I do shotokan karate as of now for 3 and a half years and i love it, i dedicate all my free time to practicing. My dojo is more on the tradition side so we practice a good variety like karates traditional take downs etc. And we also have sparring classes which we just use everything that we have learn ( any martial art or techniques ) and we apply it. I love this video so much and i think its vital to the martials arts community to be thinking about stuff like this.
Nothing but solid truth in this video. That point about capacity for knowledge is a big one, and one that people are going to have to consider when they choose a martial art. Getting involved in something like karate has what is needed in the curriculum, but the curriculum is massive. Martial arts are about personal goals, and one needs to be honest with themselves before they have their martial arts be brutally honest.
Many schools are forgetting , history, honor, sportsmanship, meditation , tactics, body mechanics, physical training for power,speed and enduranceas well as precision and that it is the person not the art that makes well rounded martial artists instead of thugs.
Agreed! I trained in a Muay Thai gym that was focused on competition. Tons of strength training, tons os sparring, they were pretty honest about what they were teaching as well. BUT they also were straight up madmen! One of my teachers even was hired to beat the shit off people. One day a wife hired him to destroy her cheating husband, and paid extra for a broken leg. GTA stuff, man... Got out of there asap
>history How can you even say that and not realize that you're full of shit? If sth works, it doesn't have to have a "history". The "history" is told to you as make-belief. >meditation You might as well practice painting in your martial arts class. If stuff that's not directly relevant to fighting comes up too much, that's a clear indication of bullshido. >tactics You obtain tactics by sparring. >physical training for power,speed and enduranceas You can do that in your own time. No need to pay a "master" if you're just gonna do generic fitness exercises. >that it is the person not the art that makes well rounded In that case, why do you need instruction? BJJ works no matter who teaches whom. If it's "not the art", you are just admitting to be talking bullshit.
My weird path is Shotokan to JKD (mainly hand trapping and concepts) to Silat to sport BJJ. With the advent of the UFC and then the Bullshido website i question everything. Studied Keysi /defense lab stuff and pensador boxing i never had in the early days. Footwork and endurance. Loving your vids and honesty. I am not a martial artist, i am a Nerd sure....but i want to learn what i can use to survive on the crime ridden streets. My kicks are now only leg kicks because of back injuries due to age. But man I'm really into Muay thai and Lethwei (from your vid). I learn alot here man!
well I do both and teach both point sparring and sparring so two yesses there. Brutal honesty yes. I don't understand how you can really train with out it. You would just end up ignorant of your flaws. I dunno. Mindful of your surroundings. Funny one. We adapt techniques for certain situations. So I guess so. Throws and submission yes but it's not my forte. My Sensei who teaches me used to do celtic wrestling and championed it locally. Has a lot of knowledge of grappling. Sweeps are slightly different if you don't mind me saying but yes of course we do that. In fact our syllabus for kyu grades is just scratching the surface when it comes to learning. Katas, strikes, kicks, sweeps, throws, takedowns and submissions. So I would say my karate ticks the boxes for most of these.
@@SenseiSeth thanks. I'm kinda in the same boat with you. So many people just think that all I do is kata and teach kids kata. Karate is so much more than that.
1. Love this video, keep up the good work. 2. Honestly I just did the checklist and honestly I am surprised this fits the criteria... I know it may sound weird but when you think about it in a way it does.... Lightsaber Combat/Choreography...
Very well said i totally agree. I have been inn Facebook groups with ppl that have the mentality that sparring isn't needed. These members believe they are lethal but have never tested their technique.
I love a the comments from the TKD/Karate guys on here going "We do all 10!!!!" 🙄 You guys must be pumped your classes are full of future UFC champs. Doing sloppy/bad take downs/submissions or ineffectual sparring doesn't count. You can try and slice a turd sandwich in to 10 pieces if you like. It's still a turd sandwich.
@taekwondo wt taekwondo itf They're still silly compliant drills they don't practice in sparring and are fairly useless though. Besides, read the comments on here. There are plenty of TKD and karate folks here claiming they do "Judo/Wrestling/BJJ" moves in their training 🙄 I would think twice about calling someone an "idiot" online if you don't know the difference between *their* and *they're* .
@taekwondo wt taekwondo itf How old are you? When you just descend in to calling names (ad hominem attacks) you're basically admitting you've lost the argument. The point is if you do compliant, non-resistant takedowns or restraints they can be highly dubious and not work at all in an actual fight. They usually will not work against someone resisting you. The way they train takedowns in MMA, with fully resistant sparring based on alive drilling, is totally different to the pre-rehearsed takedowns against a static opponent who doesn't resist that occurs in TKD. Calling someone an idiot doesn't change that.
My Karate style hits all ten more or less. 1. Strength and conditioning. Yes push ups, situps, running, etc. Not unusual to do 100 pushups in a class. 2. Striking yes Karate, hands, kicks, elbows, knees, etc. 3. Throws, take downs, sweeps. Intermediate and above. 4. Submissions. Joint locks, arm bars. 5. Transitional wrestling. Clinch only but many also train in Judo and Jujitsu 6. Sparring. Yes free style required sparring classes. Major part of black belt test. 7. Situational awareness. This is our number one rule to avoid the fight. Use your brain. 8. Brutal honesty. Yes no martial art makes you superman, train for self improvement. 9. Sport competition. Not much one or two tournaments per year. We are NOT a tournament dojo more traditional. 10. High capacity of learning. We encourage cross training in other martial arts to gain knowledge and keeping things interesting
@@paragon1782 My style has cross trained Karate, Judo and Jujitsu since the 1960's. All Japanese martial arts, even BJJ originates from Japanese Judo and Jujitsu.
@@paragon1782 Okinawa from where Karate comes has an indigenous style of wrestling and the Kata's also mostly from Okinawa have grappling and control techniques not just strikes.
@@timlinator but if you guys are "encouraging cross training" and many "also train in judo and bjj" then that makes it mma. regardless if traditional karate is more than just strikes and originated from Japanese jujitsu. Lol
Great vid Seth. I do traditional jujitsu which often gets a bad rap. We added sparring and a lot of striking in our program. I really agree it comes down to how you teach.
Ken Po 9/10. Having all those elements just seemed like normal, basic dojo stuff to me. Didn't realize how many styles don't do the things I consider basic. As a bonus bit, I love how it also taught me to be a better person in general. I would not be the man I am today without Ken Po as my style.
There's a box that should be on the list that Kyokushin usually ticks. Drops your fees as soon as you hit Shodan to encourage you to take up a second style.
Most styles use gloves during spars where head contact is allowed in advanced classes when training because we don't want to kill each other... At large trainings it is not uncommon for someone to get some sort of injury despite the gloves and people pulling their punches during sparing. You know they are serious when they have the medical tables right there on the side of the floor with someone ready to treat people.
Love this video and you make some excellent points. Prior to watching and not knowing what was on the list I was not sure what to expect which was part of the fun. I very rarely post replies, but I figured I'd step out and do it here. Turns out we can check off all of the boxes. The members of my school (all adults as a side note) and I had a very good discussion about this video as I "assigned" this video as "homework" prior to their next training session. We've also looked at this not just from the view of a style being legit, but also how the school is presenting a style. You can have a legit style that is not well presented and thus the school even with good intentions may not be doing the things on your list, but the style certainly allows for the possibility of it. Another factor we thought of that is honestly more school specific than style, is providing for a realistic training environment/realistic training conditions. While typing this originally I was expounding on this point, but my reply is already long enough and getting close to novel length. My apologies for that. I very much enjoy your channel and thanks for all you are doing here.
I think 6 for me... I've been taking some Krav Maga classes for the past couple of months. I was/am partly interested in the physical exercise aspects of it, but I am also interested in the self-defense aspect of it as well. I picked the place to go to based mostly on convenience-- it's right next to where I used to work (I just recently lost my job because the company I worked for let a lot of people go "due to the impact of COVID", or so they say, anyway) but the Krav Maga place I go to was on the way home... I didn't have to go out of my way at all to get there. Even though I lost my job, it's still convenient to go because it's still within walking distance of where I live. I mostly focused on the convenience part because I don't necessarily feel like I have/had enough knowledge or expertise to figure out what the best (or most legit) school I could possibly go to is, so I figured the best choice I could make was to find a place where it is as easy as possible to go when I want to go. There is also a Jiu-Jitsu place right next to the Krav Maga place I go, and I took a free lesson there as well before I made my decision on where to go. Anyway, so far, we have not been taught any throws, takedowns, sweeps , submissions, or transitional wrestling, but we have learned a lot of striking; fists, elbows, knees, and kicks. As far as the throws, takedowns, etc., I wouldn't necessarily say Krav Maga doesn't have any of those things, I'd bet it's probably more a case that I just haven't been taught those things yet... as I said, I've only been going for a couple of months, or so. Other than that, the only other thing from your list that isn't (or doesn't seem to be) part of Krav Maga is the competitions. On the other hand, there is definitely an emphasis on strength and conditioning, striking I already talked about. We haven't actually sparred yet in any of the classes I've gone to, but we have done a lot of drills that are about as close to sparring as you can get without actually sparring. Plus, there is an adult sparring class available every Saturday morning-- I haven't been to it yet, but I plan on going this Saturday.
In fairness to Seth, good, well rounded TKD schools are as rare as hen's teeth. It's much easier to find an MMA gym where you know you'll get a good well rounded education, rather than finding a 1 in a 1000 TKD school.
My master trained an ITF and WTF and has been with WTF tae kwon do for many years. He teaches the importance of discovering who we are as martial artists. Teaching us the importance of minimal contact and almost full contact but inside of the rules where we can hit. And teaches us many different philosophies for power. Also skin conditioning and some body conditioning. He takes a traditional /Modern approach to Taekwondo and stresses the importance of forms. And also some basic self-defense every once in a while. He teaches us timing and not to waste energy on our opponent and getting to know our opponent more. I have grown so much and him teaching me the importance of loving others and treating them well. And exploring and being creative with being respectful. But also thinking outside of the box and doing stuff in different ways sometimes if the other one is not effective for us or we just don’t understand it. He has formed us into kind and respectful martial artists and not taking advantage of his power. Also knows how we learn and also some of our past and knows how to help us work around stuff. Mentally and physically. And is never scared to tell us the truth respectfully I don’t think I would’ve gained as much respect if I hadn’t had a positive role model. We might not be fancy flippers or kickers all the time. And do cool acrobatic skills. I would say five points probably.
I checked all the boxes but I would add letting you instruct. I say that because when I got my advanced belts and started teaching I learned a ton myself.
The Karate school I own scored 9+/9, although competition gets the least attention on the list. The biggest issue I've had is students/parents willingness to train daily. Most people want 2-3 days only. That makes for a very long journey to mastery with the plethora of material available to learn. Great content Sensei.
Very true. But the society we live in people just don't have that sort of time as we progress through stages in life. As a young single man, I did. As a 37 year old married man, not so much. 2x is about all I got in me unless I can go on a day off and train multiple times in that day. I guess it speaks to the importance of getting into it early in life instead of later in life.
I have a feeling there is a TKD-is-no-martial-arts MEME out there which this guy wants to establish. lol Somebody up to make a meme? Or a T-Shirt for merch? lol
I think greco is a very underrated system. Handfighting is seldom taught properly. And I think Greco and Muay Thai could work very well together and create a nightmare matchup of a clinch fighter. Something that makes a coach legit is the teacher should be able to think in systems and get the students to think in systems. Situational drilling is also vital to add proof to your system. Every school, regardless of style should teach students how to break fall properly. Coaches that take non-competitors serouisly in improving their technique is just ❤
Most of my martial arts training in my life has been in boxing and JKD. And while they’re great sports I think sparring and versatility with submissions and more sparring should be something I should take more seriously in the future if I wanna learn how to truly hold my own
Not all points get as much emphasis as others, but we've got all 10 points on the board! Shorinji Ryu Karate, btw. Our sensei is awesome. He really emphasizes brutal honesty and situational awareness.
This is an awesome list. Taekwondo where I train (apparently different to a lot of places) Condition & Strength - yes Striking - Some, we train sometimes in WTF fight style sometimes in self defence. So obviously no limits on striking in self defence Takedowns, sweeps, throws - A limited amount but we do a few takedowns/throws Submissions - No Transitional wrestling - No Sparring - Yes Situational awareness - Some but not extensively trained as such. Competition - Plenty Brutal honesty - My instructor is pretty honest with us. Explaining the difference in technique between things learnt for WTF comp vs anything else. I don't think anyone there would legitimately think that WTF fighting would work on the streets. High capacity learning - Definitely lots to learn. We are lucky at our club as they also train in Hapkido (one that I haven't found you mention anywhere before) and BJJ. So I do a combo of BJJ and TKD. They work well together for me. But I also have never actually getting in to a fight outside of a controlled environment. So only tested in sparring/comp in the 2 different arts. PS. Only found your videos a few days ago and loving all of them.
Yeah same. I feel like my school isn't the usual TKD McDojo that only shows techniques and stuff. So I think partly Seth's dislike of TKD is because of all the bad schools there are and if you got a good one, then TKD can really be great
Hrmm... The style I spent the most time with was a particular form of Hapkido, and based on the stuff I did during my three years: 1. Strength and conditioning - Yep. Rolling and jumping until you were gassed, squats to warm up, sometimes simple weapon katas until your arms were noodles. (1) 2. Striking - A bit, pretty much every class, but it was never the focus. (0.5) 3. Takedowns, sweeps, throws - All day long. (1) 4. Submissions - Yes, though usually these were portrayed as the beginner/safe version of techniques otherwise meant to maim (1) 5. Transitional wrestling - A little. Early on if you got a technique wrong or it didn't work you'd just start over, but later there was more work on struggling, and everyone had to practice dealing with what they called "strength against strength" grab drills. (0.5) 6. Sparring - Again, a little. This got practiced by higher belts, and tests did involve "think on your feet" situations where someone came at you and you had no idea what they were going to do, but for the lower belts there was a big focus on having your techniques/throws/rolls/falls down before you could be trusted not to hurt yourself or someone else. (0) 7. Situational awareness - Yes, this got talked about a lot, practiced in non-combat situations, and even worked into some drill and technique practice. I even credit it with helping me grab a pick-pocket's hand just as he was about to get my passport & credit card. (1) 8. Competition (0) 9. Brutal honesty - It was all about personal self defense, defense against someone coming into your personal space and grabbing or striking at you, and dedication. There was a little bit of fluff and nonsense, but the core worked for what it was. (1) 10. High capacity learning - Absolutely, always more ways to improve, variations on techniques against different approaches or different types of opponents, etc. (1) 7 Total. I can live with that. The Krav Maga-based self defense place I went to for a while after that I think would get an 8 or 9, based on that, though they didn't consider themselves a style. A "system" instead.
To sum up for later self: 1. Conditionning : no need to crush your fist into makiwara but your practice should definitely improve your shape and physical capabilities. 2. Striking 3. Throws /Takedowns/Sweep 4. Submissions 5. Transitional wrestling : a very important but understated one. A fight typically takes you where you don't want to go. Clinches (fight off and prevail in case of 'entanglement') and transitional wrestling (sprawls, staying up when adv want to take you down, pin adv down when he tries to stand back up) is critical in that aspect 6. SPARRING. SPARRING. SPARRING. Or pressure testing. Don't train in air or only w/ compliance if you wanna learn to fight and defend your self. Simulate the situation you training for. SPARRING. And not complacent sparring. You don't need to risk your life at every training for it to be legit. 7. Situational awareness 8. Sports and competition 9. Brutal Honesty : this one is more about you. Know what you're seeking and don't fool yourself. It's ok to practice for fun and tricks. Just know you're not prepared for a malevolent encounter and act accordingly. It can quite be much worse to think you know when you actually don't...than to just not knowing and being aware of your ignorance. 10. High capacity if learning : depth to the discipline, to keep you interested and evolving. It has nothing to do with the apparent complexity of the curriculum/techniques tho A very solid video, imo. Well done. After years of practice in different styles, I came to a suprisingly identical checklist. To me this video is more about how to know a dojo is legit more than a whole MA. Because all MA have potentially all of the above (widely speaking, dont neat-pick) but it's all about how it's taught...what quality, toward which perspective. And is the content aligned with what advertised ??
Bujinkan: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 (depending on dojo), 7, 10. Some people and dojos have 9 as well but all too many lack it so better to leave that out. So the style score many points on the list (7-9 depending on the dojo), but many would still deem it unlegit.
Hey, Sir, I was wondering if you could evaluate the style I'm being taught under with this. I'm mainly learning it because the area I live in isn't necessarily that safe, and wanted to know what you thought on if this would work for why I'm learning based off your checklist. Crouching Boar Kung Fu- --------------------------------------------- Strength & conditioning: check (unlimited)Striking: check Throws & sweeps: check Submissions: lacking Sparring: check Situational awareness: check Sport/competition: lacking Brutal honesty: * visible ptsd from 1st day at the dojo* check High learning capacity: Not sure since I've only been doing it for about 2 years, but so far I'd say yeah. Check
You should also add, Multiple attackers Weapons Both the pre and post fight Scenario training What are the laws and reasonable force in your country How to avoid a fight, and being aware of your surroundings Pressure testing Training in different environments So, as you can see, there are so much more to self defense than what you learn in combat sports.
Pound sign Brutal Honesty!...did I just show my age there? It matters not! I'm trying to bring back the pound sign. And now I'm gonna bring back the Brutal Honesty to my training - Thank you Sir! Great video!🙏
Lau Gar 10/10 buuuuuuuuuuut very teacher dependent. I'm really lucky to have teachers that dig into transitional wrestling, into sweeps, into situational awareness, into honesty etc.
Great video, many ( not all) Jeet Kune Do schools do most of this, including full contact sparring and grappling. Again, not all schools, but Dan Inosanto is a big believer of live testing your art. Again some don’t but these schools are missing out.
Wing Tsung : Strinking Yes , Stength and Kondition Yes, Sparring Yes , Takedowns Yes, Awareness is a centralpoint in the Trining from Bodyawarenes to Situation awareness.
1:31 So grateful you presented Master Gushi. This martial art has considerable strength and conditioning drills as seen in this time stamp. _Sanchin Gami_ is a farmer's walk on steroids.
Sensei punched me the hardest mentally and I still havent recovered since then. Even scared to go to his livestream now. Sensei revealed in one of his stream that he is 25 and that was enough of a hard punch.
I teach World Yoshukai Karate. We do: 1. Strength and conditioning. 2. Striking. 3. Sweeps. 4. Sparring, both sport and full-contact. 5. Situational awareness I go over when teaching self defense. 6. We don't train to compete, but we do compete and we have big Open Karate tournaments. 7. Definitely honest. 8. High capacity learning. Something else we do are board breaks (1-inch thick pine boards) for everyone and heavy breaks (concrete, bats) for Black Belts who want to do them.
How many boxes does your style check off??
More than yours, karate boy.
Tany Carne lmao, brutal honesty I’m sure is there
My Kung Fu style checked 7 of the boxes off.
Sick!!
ITF: Striking, Sparring, Conditioning, honest (we crosstrained with a buddy of my teacher the aspects missing from TKD regarding self defense), competition.
Full contact fighting is not an official thing in ITF TKD but that is just an image upheld. The truth is broken noses and kos regardless (especially in open rookie tournaments) since some people suck at controlled high kicks and sometimes just use boxing instead (within the rules of ITF, as in, no backfists, ellbows or haymakers and similar allowed). And why the hell is it my problem anyways when my opponent falls into my kicks and punches...😎
Thx Man, just realized thanks to you that muay thai is not legit. Just signed in for Aikido class right after this video!
Smart man... lmao
😂😂
how is it muay thai not legit...?
@@omartlili5849 its a joke mate
@@mr28086 i get it's a joke, i just don't follow the logic of the joke...
My style is watching people on UA-cam talk about styles
I like your style
99% of people on YT martial arts videos probably don't train any martial arts at all lol.
@@humann5682 Except for Fujitsu.
@@humann5682 I do Muay Thai and some Karate/Taekwondo
My philosophy has always been, "You can do strength and conditioning on your own time. Right now, your here to learn and practice."
Haha fair enough!!
In the Krav Maga classes I used to go to we'd do it in class and sparr at the end of class. Sparring while tired was supposed to simulate the stress of a real encounter. We'd do all sorts of sparring. Boxing, kickboxing (with boxng gloves) but also MMA-style sparring with MMA gloves. We also did some BJJ-style rolling. But anyway, getting exhausted was an important factor to (supposedly) make it more realistic.
We'd do kickboxing sparring with one person having to sparr against a "fresh opponent" every minute or so while the others stood around. Once you had sparred with every one you could leave the circle and the last person to come in had to go up against all the others again. Or we'd do this stress drill exercise where one person would be surrounded by a bunch of people holding "pillows" and would have to fight their way out of the circe and run away. Every now and then the instructor would give one of the people on the outside of the circle a practice knife or stick and the person in the circle would have to deffend against attacs.
It was very exhausting but was great for stamina and working under preassure.
I feel as if the whole group needs to come up together with strength conditioning punching and kicking each other
@@yyyboy You should never ever do skill work while that tired because you develop bad habits everything you said is true except you will develop bad habits
@@kylerobison1425 Yes, I agree with you. It was also very frustrating because it wasn't very technical and tbh I usually was too tired out to do anything good. I think it might have been better to do it like that every now and then but to do most sparring after the warm up or something like that. I visited a seminar once where we did sparring right after the warm up, then kept switching between technical parts (parcticing technical aspects of fighting) and sparring. The sparring changed acording to what we had just learned. Unfortunately the instructors in the gym I trained in couldn't be convinced otherwise.
If you have to spend a lot of time thinking if your style is legit, or have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to "prove it's legit" then it's probably not legit lol.
what if u combine a few styles tho. but not is a way u mix them keep them seperate and switch between them at the appropriate times. like taekwondo and muay thai
@@sahanfernando4414 Given the fact those styles have disparate ways of doing things and fighting is a split second, often chaotic event, it's not adviseable as it would only confuse you.
@@sahanfernando4414 I think it depends what you mean by mixing them. I agree it could get confusing if you are constantly switching between mt and tkd stances mid fight. On the other hand I think it can be beneficial to some of the faster or inherently tricky to defend kicks from tkd and splice them into mt. When it comes to iffy arts, I think splicing is a good word for how they fit in solid martial arts
TKD...Striking, sparring, one steps, strength and conditioning, situational awareness, sport and competition. This is the TKD I learned in the 90s. According to YOUR list, TKD is a legit martial art. We had NO black belt package, no assurance of black belt in a specific amount of time. MY TKD training is definitely legit!
It differs a lot from class to class. Apparently in USA nowadays there are a lot of incomplete classes/scams/McDojos under the name of "Taekwondo".
That sounds like the Taekwondo I train in.
Mc dojos do exist but this is where wtf comes If its still called that. World tie Kwan do federation. When u got other countries agree ur legit then hate to say it..it is. I tried street, karate, boxing, n tkd, n might b dojo im in but i feel tkd n karate were legit. I didn't see boxing cus no legs like he said in vid, but i did tkd from 2012 i think on.
Long story shorr see if other places, or countries agree ur dojo teaches legit.
TKD 10/10
Same. I train ITF and we do 9 of the 10 things (everything but transitional wrestling) that he listed. I do understand that not all schools do this, even other ITF schools, and I consider myself lucky to have found a really good instructor.
1. Strenght and conditioning 2. Striking 3. Takedowns, sweeps, throws 4. Submissions 5. Transitional wrestling 6. Sparring 7. Situational awareness 8. Competition 9. Brutal honesty 10. Hogh capacity learning
The 3 subparts of Savate:
1) La Boxe Francaise-Savate: 1, 2, 6, 8, 9, 10
2) Savate Défense:1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10
3) La Canne de Combat: 1, 6, 8, 9, 10
Bam!
Mysifu was brutal honest said I would not fight if I were you because you basically suck but he didn't say that to hurt me he did it to protect me many coaches don't protect their fighters and yhefighters end up getting fucked up a couple actually die within hours after the fight again you look at the movie best of the best were Tommy's brother gets killed in tournament or you see these average people trying to challenge pros
.. but Savate is French, so it doesn't count ;)
@@keystothebox am sorry I didn't get it 💭💭🤗
La savate francais
Joke's on you, I have no style
So you’re saying you shop at gap?
@@SenseiSeth Haha, even worse
Nicky Book 😂😂😂
@@SenseiSeth lol. I shop at walmart
@@SenseiSeth kinda savage
The only question that must be made is:
Does my style gives me what i seek?
If yes, ok, that is.
Now,
Do i seek to be the best fighter inside a full rules combat? MMA
Do i seek spiritual awareness? Kung-Fu
Do i seek to defend myself in school? Boxing
Do i seek to defend myself in a bar brawl? Boxing
Do i seek to defend myself against drug dealers? and meth heads? Go to a shooting range
Do i seek to be in physical shape? Muay Thai
Do i seek to defend myself agaist my older brother? Jiu-Jitsu
Do i seek to immobilize someone until help comes? Jiu-Jitsu
Do i seek to defeat 10 enemies in a combat? Go to a shooting range
Do i seek to survive in the woods, learn how to cook in a sardine can and making fire with prehistorical resources? Ninjutsu
This list is enormous.
This is a great post. The problem I have noticed isn't that a martial art does this or that. It's the fact that sometimes certain martial arts, through dishonesty or delusion, claim they can do things which there isn't much proof of.
Aikido and Iaido are great examples. Everyone knows that Aikido has a bad reputation and many people online have dog piled Aikido, the main reason being some in the Aikido community have made really silly claims over the years. I sometimes think the abuse Aikido gets is OTT, but I understand where that ire comes from.
Now, Iaido is even less helpful in a fight compared to Aikido, but it doesn't get any abuse really. Why? It's because the Iaido community have never made any crazy claims about how useful their martial art is in a real world fight. Everyone doing Iaido knows exactly what it is and is not, and they aren't pretending it's something else.
But you notice drinking and a gun solves at least half of those issues 🤔 every system is spiritual and nobody on the bottom of the latter is fully effective at everything or situation my other self defense tool greatest self defense technique is keeping far distance from ftards and disloyal people or theives should be like baseball 3 strikes you're out if youre even good enough to be on my team in Olympics yougo through several screening processes including professional conduct which should be in you generally by the time you're a purple belt watch the movie best of the best you'll generally get the idea 💡 😉
Each of those questions could be answered with jiu jitsu, muay thai and wrestling interchangeably
@@traviscook5144 For me it makes sense.
@@traviscook5144 yes and I don't discredit either of those styles especially Muay Thai is one of my favorite but honestly I'd rather end things standing up rather than wrestling thats more of a back up if my stand up doesn't match up we pass up so many opportunities for straight shot right to throat cause we wanna copy something else we saw in a match
I feel like the Tae Kwon do class I take is very real. I got 6 boxes checked. I hadn’t even heard about the competition based classes until I saw your channel. This is my fifth year doing it and I’ll get my black belt by around December. That’s pretty dumb that some people get there’s in only three years. But great video!!
Thanks bud!! You can usually tell if it’s a legit style. Few people get swindled, they just decided they’re okay with what they’re learning!
Yea back in my junior high our tkd team got screwed in a tournament because all we did was training "crowd pleaser tricks".
Ahhh I think you did't get the joke. This guy "hates" TKD like IcyMike "hates" side kicks lol They don't work.
-> It's a meme nothing serious.
Arbitrarily assigning a "time in attendance" to a black belt, be it 3 years or 5 years, is still McDojoish. That's why I love the Judo way of grading. You do some theory, then you have to beat other 1st kyus in matches. Not sparring demos. Full blown matches in tournaments. And they are going for their black belts too, so they are trying to smash you just as bad. You need to beat a lot of them too (up to 15 in some countries).
Under the Judo system I've seen people get a black belt in 3 years. I've also seen it take one guy 8½ years. Both of those people could legitimately fight to a black belt standard though. You're ready when you're ready and have shown you can actually fight and beat people. Not when you've attended X amount of classes and paid X amount of monthly fees to a Dojo or Dojang.
Kukkiwon-style is legit, its great in sparring, strength & conditioning, competitions. Loophole is wrestling, punching in the face, submissions. I add FMA to supplement it so if I get in a fight outside of the mats or tournaments I can defend well.
Wrestling is legit incase you were wondering.
Lol thanks I had no idea
Sensei Seth it’s pretty useful in a fight though for actual mma it should be combined with striking
@@roguelites5225 any grapple based style should be combined with some sort of striking art and vice versa dan severn and mark kerr had to learn how to at least block strikes before they could takedown/slam you then gnp
@@SenseiSeth lol
@@roguelites5225 Ben askren
Sport Taekwondo doesn't have face punching but we still train it in class. The real deficiency is low kicking. 100% above the belt.
Lol, and how forms still chamber to the hip, so dumb nobody is willing to change that.
That’s why it’s sport, not self defence. There are differences in karate styles, too. Kyokushin is full contact and often considered one of the toughest styles, but punches to the head aren’t allowed in competition. Low kicks are allowed, high kicks too. I used to spar with a kyokushin guy, and he had trouble defending against punches to the head, because they don’t train that. His kicks were lethal, though.
everyone ive sparred with in tkd kicks me below the belt...im 5'4" !!
@@mouchthebiker2938 ITF or World Taekwondo?
One of your best videos, Seth Sensei. Good to see a UA-cam Karateka defending our art, instead of trashing it. I like your focus on traditional karate vs sport karate. We are waiting for you to come and give a seminar in Spain. Oss!
Just say when and I’m there!! Thank you sir 🙏🙏
I mean karate can be anything from magical bullshit to hard-nosed kickboxing.
I know Judo is legit, I feel good doing it and it covers most of the points. There is no striking, and sometimes the reliance on the Gi makes it unrealistic, but it definitly teaches you how to take someone down and deal with a resisting oponent.
This are my checked boxes, a total of 7:
- Takedowns
- Transitional wrestling
- Sparring
- Submissions
- Strength and conditioning (we allways warm up and sometimes finish the class with circuits)
- Sport/Competition
- Brutal Honesty (at least where I train at)
- High learning capacity
I hold Judo in super high regards, its probably going to be my next style that I get into!
I feel more judo schools should expand on atemi waza (striking). I know they can't do it in competitions, but it is still supposed to be part of the curriculum. I don't expect it to make one an amazing striker as karate or MT. But it would help round out a skill set for those wanting to learn for self defence.
If you live in a area where it's cold or gets cold and people wear jackets, hoodies, sweaters etc you can use your judo moves
I'm actually attending my first judo lesson today. Would you happen to have any tips that would help me?
Honestly I feel like my Sensei's say I do good even when I feel I don't
Is your style legit? Very simple answer is does it do what it advertises
Does your kick boxing class say self defence but its a cardio class that only does warm ups and pad work - not legit
Does your aikido say meditative and discipline based - then it's legit aikido
Does your aikido say self defence or combat sport - probably not legit aikido
Does your karate say its traditionally okinawan but only does point systems or even no sparring - that's not legit traditional
Does your karate say sport karate and only do point or kata - that's legit sport karate
Etc etc
But as for use that's a different issue
Litteraly sparring is the most important thing
There is no training for self defence either you can fight or you cant and if you don't spar you can't fight
Brutal honesty!!
Hm im doing shukokai karate which is a mix of traditional and Sports ( so we do both katas and sparring etc) is it then legit or not?
I have this conversation maybe 3 times a year when someone floats the idea of taking a self-defense course, and I tell them that they are an absolute waste of time, at least for their stated purpose. I instead advocate that they get in shape and learn to fight. Then I point them to boxing, Muay Thai, judo, and BJJ (generally). Not that there aren't other options, but these are generally very easily found. I'll even offer to go with them to classes. Zero takers over the years.
It isn't usually received well. People want to keep a feeling of safety that comes from watching videos, or taking half a dozen classes of self defense nonsense.
People want an easy, non threatening way to feel safe
@@patrickrobles1036 judo and boxing are my top picks for self defence arts but their roughness and reputation can push people away. I like jkd as a self defence option for acarage but it's not very common. I would like karate to go back into its more traditional roots I think then it could be effective as self defence
Kickboxing: 5. Strength, striking, sport (although I don't care about it), sparring, honesty.
Aikido: 3. Throws, depth, awareness (at least should be taught in good dojos; imho, it's an integral part of aikido)
My flawless magical future mix of both which I will certainly develop one day for sure: 7 (no sports)
hey, mixes are key!
Hmm🤔
Striking in Judo when we STRIKE YOU WITH THE GROUND. lol. But for real, idk if the term “Judo Chop” began as a joke or a misunderstanding. Otherwise old school Judo (leg grabs and healthy understanding of ne-waza) covers a lot.
Old school is dope! From who I’ve met though on average, it usually is more competition based, hence the grading I gave it. To be fair, I’m often wrong though 😉😂
Judo chop is a reference fro the movie "Austin Powers".
That’s it’s origin?
@@SenseiSeth yes it is, lol. Back in the 60's and 70's the "karate Chop" was the move everyone used in TV and film (James Bond, Star Trek). Austin Powers, being a character from that era, naturally......lol.
There is ateme-waza in judo but it's never really utilized in mainstream judo, and it's normally looking at how to defend strikes. I think it would be more beneficial for judoka to study strikes but it's not the top priority for most judoka. 😔
Bjj: 9 conditioning: yes; striking: No; takedowns, throws, sweeps: yes; submissions: yes; wrestling: yes; sparring: yes; situational awareness: yes; competition: yes; brutal honesty: yes; high learning capacity: yes
I can always count on your content to reinforce my pro-karate biases
Hahaha happy to do it
"Nobody does competitions to lose" ... Actually in Asia a lot of fighters are bribed with a good amount of money to lose unfortunately.
Well, money is money loo
I mean, that's a win in its own right.
@@feckingegg9146 oh yeah, 100% lmao. Especially when they pay in USD or Euros
Well, here's where we delve a little into stage fighting (or whatever that should be called) since you kinda have to lose convincingly :D
PRIDE NEVER DIES BAY BAY
I was in Isshinryu most of my life and in my dojo we were allowed to aim to the head but only with controlled strikes. I'll say that in my time as a kick boxer, having practiced controlled strikes to the head not only helped me familiarize myself with finding the head as a target, but also helped me to be able to make accurate and precise strikes when I eventually went into full contact.
Alright let's rate my kung fu school
- strength and conditioning: we open every class with push ups sit ups ect. Occasionally jogging
-unlimited striking. Punches and kicks to the head, kicks to the legs are all allowed.
-throws and take downs. Not a main focus but we've all spent many hours on throws.
-Transional wrestling. Although this is not part of traditional kung fu, one of our instructors is a talented wrestler and teaches techniques frequently.
-sparring. All the time. Full contact. No points.
-competition. Not mandatory, but several of us compete annually
-honesty. Harder to quantify, but our instructors have never coddled us.
High cap learning- been training their for many years, still feel like a beginner on occasion.
very nice!!
At my gym they teach kyokushin, judo and kickboxing. And what I benefited from them
Kyokushin benefits
- close distance face to face combat
- helped with my flexibility
- conditioned me to take hits and me feel what getting lit is like
- helped with my kicking
- helped with cardio
Judo benefits
-throwing your opponents
- getting thrown and feeling the ground is like
-learning to land correctly like when I slipped on ice
-back strength
-Learned how to do ground work
- helped built cardio
-stand up game way better then before
- how to do joint locks and using peoples own momentum against them( my sensei also teaches us some Japanese jiu jistu and aikido)
-not only use gi but I live in a cold area where I use cloths like a gi
Kickboxing benefits
-punching better because they teach us boxing
-Getting close toe to toe without fear and being well conditioned thanks to kyokushin
- kicking got way better also thanks to kyokushin
- great foot work
- elbows strike(yes it's modified kickboxing but not close to mauy thai.
- clinch game is ok but not as good but thanks to judo I substitute the clinch into throws and use some of the sweeps
- defense like head movement, ducking, slipping,
-cutting the distance
Kickboxing benefits
That’s a lot of variation! Love it
I’m glad you bring these points up, especially to help everyone be aware of what makes a good martial arts style. I do traditional Goju Ryu karate, which you already know applies plenty of the points you mentioned.
1:32 That’s Shinyu Gushi! That guy had a 6 pack in his 70s, amazing.
👏👏
I study WTF Tae Kwon Do, and in my school we do a whole lot more than train for competitions. We learn numerous take downs, joint locks, grappling, and how to disarm people. We also do conditioning and sparring. My school may be known for Tae Kwon Do we have starting implementing other arts like BJJ and Krav Maga to make it more in tuned for street fighting and not just tournaments that many people believe it to only be for.
9/10 Wrestling, I used to compete when I was younger, middle school through college, but now it's recreational.
Have recently started training at a boxing gym for recreational purposes, though the coaches there tell me that since my goal isn't to compete, they want me to train technique and strength and conditioning for at least a month (really they just said for at least 12 lessons, so it depends on how often I go a week) before I start to spar with the others.
Great video Sensei Seth! we do most of these things in my karate school and also add weapons to the curriculum as it's part of the Okinawan culture. We have sweeps and arm bars and leg locks in our self defence as well. However due to Covid protocols we have not been sparring as of late but we hope to get back to it as we did it before the pandemic hit. Again awesome content Sensei Seth!
As an MMA, BJJ, ITF Taekwondo guy... I approve this video 😆😆😆
ITF is trash, it doesn’t even have full contact sparring
Love the video, I have 6 boxes checked. I’ve been training in Shotokan karate. My father also trained me from when I was younger and the older I get and more I learn the more passionate I become with the training and learning.
Hwarangdo:
1. Strength and conditioning Y
2. Striking Y
3. Takedowns, sweeps, throws Y
4. Submissions KIND OF
5. Transitional wrestling NO
6. Sparring Y
7. Situational awareness Y
8. Competition Y
9. Brutal honesty Y
10. High capacity learning Y
Never heard of that.
@@Dystisis I find this interesting actually lol. So I’ve heard of Hwarangdo but not as a martial art. I take Tae Kwon Do in TTCA (Traditional Tae Kwon Do Chungdo Kwan Association). Hwarangdo was a group of warrior in Korea made up of teenage boys trained in the early stages of Tae Kwon do probably closer to more of a Taekyon. Hwarangdo means way of the blossoming flower, it is symbolic of boys becoming men. Very interesting to hear that it is a martial art. Never knew this.
Thank you for being brave enough, and caring enough, to always speak your mind. You are really helping people and I always enjoy your videos.
Is Judo Randori or Bjj "rolling" or wrestling sparring though? Asking for a friend :P
Yes, sparring is the live application of the martial art.
Yup!!
Rolling is a form of "Sparring"
I thought so too before I started. Trust me, it sure is
Sparring doesn't just apply with striking. Sparring in grappling can be very effective and work does your benefit. I'd rather spar in grappling and grappling only than practice striking but all I'm doing is hitting bags and pads all day.
Seems my ITF TKD style hits about 8.5 ish. We could do with more of the "transitional wrestling" and I've never been a big tournament person, though another guy at school deals with that. Oh wait.. Is it cheating if I'm the one who teaching everything so I include most of these things? (0_o)
Haha I’m gonna call not cheating
Boxing/Krav Maga Checklist: 1. Strength and Conditioning 2. Striking. 3. Sparring. 4. Situational Awareness. 5. Competition. 6. Brutal Honesty e.g self defence + competition. 7. Grappling but not as in depth as arts like Judo or BJJ as it draws things from it
Hey, that’s a pretty good list boss!
Sensei Seth Cheers, like Bruce Lee said “take what works discard what doesn’t
Your point about kicks and boxing is spot on. My girlfriends brother is a amateur boxer who’s been doing it for a while and I sparred him with kickboxing rules. I got in with lead kicks and a couple head kicks and I’ve only been doing kick boxing for a month.
Boxing vs Kickboxing is not this beats that.. It can go either way. See Mercer Vs Sylvia where a boxer KO's a kick boxer. Or Mayweathers fight vs that Japanese kid who's name escapes me. Boxer's can easily KO kick boxers, or the reverse is true. Kickboxing isn't this style that will automatically dominate boxing. If you are leg kicking a boxer while they are hitting you on the head with left hooks.... it's not the boxer who will come out of that exchange badly.
This should be titled "10 Factors That Make _Fighting_ Arts Styles LEGIT."
By definition "martial" is related to war, and war means killing, not scoring points or listening to a ref. If you're unfamiliar with war, you can search UA-cam for "World War II" and get plenty of information on the subject. People in the octagon aren't warriors, no matter how much they juice and flex. Warriors also need to know how to not get killed.
Does your martial art include regular games of tag, outside in realistic environment? Marc MacYoung says that's one of the best ways to train for street escape & evasion. Does your martial art teach verbal de-escalation? Does your martial art begin with training a way to reset/override your OODA loop when it's been derailed by an ambush? Does your martial art teach the difference between process- and resource predators, the sort of scripts they expect you to follow, and recognizing the signs to choose between compliance or fighting? Does your martial art teach you the correct way to cross a street while being chased? Does your martial art teach how to recognize and use improvised weapons and drill it until it's instinctive? Does your martial art teach throws rather than takedowns so that you're in a position to run away instead of having your head in the perfect position for a third-party soccer kick? Does your martial art teach you that the phrase "self-defense" in the presence of a cop is an admission to a crime, and now you have to dig your way out of a legal pit you just threw yourself into?
Does your martial art give lip service to situational awareness, or does it actually teach realistic, predictable signs to look for, which situations call for higher alertness, which locations are _actually_ high risk, or even how to take a sidewalk corner around a building? I've seen a lot of people talk about situational awareness, but so far, I've only seen on author actually give actionable information.
I ask these questions because the more I hear people debate whether such-and-such style "works," is "legitimate," or applicable in the "real world," the more I realize how divorced the community is from the very definitions of these words in actual application. MMA is very effective for fighting, until you get into a hockey fight and you find yourself locked in place by an enraged athlete with a good grip with one hand, an accurate jackhammer punching style with the other, and a reckless disregard for his skull that only getting high-sticked and eating slapshots can impart. Suddenly all those years spent perfecting your jab count for squat.
If you were in a crowded bar with a buddy, and all of the sudden you're assaulted by a jealous goon and his friends who think you eyeballed the goon's girlfriend, would you rather your friend be an MMA fighter who needs the space of an octagon and hours of psyching up, or a hockey player practiced at going from zero to insane in a moment, needs barely an armlength of room to fight, and is used to jackhammer punching guys wearing helmets?
I don't have a dog in this fight. And I admit I probably missed a lot because your speaking style isn't my cup of tea. I just wanted to say that the community should probably adopt a demarcation of fighting from self-defense. MMA is really mixed-fighting arts, or MFA. The perfect general wins every war without ever having a battle; the perfect martial art teaches students how to never get into a fight.
Just some thoughts. Thanks in advance for your patience! Have a great day!
my golly
Frenstcht, the amount of tacti-cool, projection, and murder-boner-stroking in your post is very worrying. You very convincingly play the role of the armchair martial nerd who has never actually fought anyone, and who spends all day obsessing over paranoid hypotheticals revolving around violent crime.
Take a sedative, calm down, and maybe just try a few classes at a reputable MMA gym. Chill out my dude.
@@jaketailor335 That's super insightful. You're very smart.
@@frenstcht You're welcome. Now stop being a martial wannabe with violent power/death fantasies.
@@jaketailor335 Your takeaway is the exact opposite of what I wrote. I'll paraphrase for clarity: A legit martial art doesn't just teach you to succeed in a particular rule set, it teaches you to avoid a secondary crime scene.
To put it another way, if your gym or dojo doesn't train you in saying "I'm sorry," the Moe Howard eye poke, and the 100-yard dash, then it's not fully legit. Nor is breaking your hand on somebody's head a victory.
Clarifying beyond this is outside my remit. Good luck!
sparring and real resistance is something that so many schools of my style dont address and train which is sad because it hurts the reputation so much. I am glad my school did sparring and hit all the things you mentioned, some with more emphasis than others but certainly sparring.
ITF TKD legit. Me happy. Put in wrestling and you have the premium package. Till I do it I use a chair or flashlight for self defense. IcyMike approved 😁
For real! Good aruff
9/10 boxes checked... At least for my school😅
ITF doesn’t even have real sparring
Taichi analysis:
Conditioning: Yes but very slow
Striking: Yes but very slow
Takedowns: Yes but very slow
Submissions: No
Transition Wrestling: No
Sparring: No
Awareness: Yes but very slow
Competition: Sort of (Display/Kata only)
Honesty: Yes but very slow
High capacity learning: Yes but very slow
Total Score: 6/10, Legit, but very slow
If your taijiquan doesn't have submissions and transitional wrestling(qin na), you forgot to speed up.
Sparring is called pushing hands, and it definitely exists in any program that is traditional, not this new-age "health and enlightenment" stuff.
And if you want competition, other than forms, go to China. They have push hand tournaments that are purported to sometimes end in broken arms.
I take a mix kali, escrima, jkd, small circle jujitsu - pretty much covers all the bases an the last gym I was working out ( before Corona) we did boxing 1 a week. An escrima has sparing with weapons that really hurt even with protective gear on. If you haven't tried Philippine martial arts you are seriously missing a world of painful fun. But to each his own.
Sounds like a fun mix 👍
I have been looking for a gym that has BJJ, Krav, Kali, and Kick Boxing. I feel like for the average person that's a hell of a good defense/fighting mixture. So far I haven't found it though. I hate having to pay multiple gyms to train various skills or having to limit myself and focus on only one until mastery and then moving to another etc
@@_Mailman what area are you in.
@@richardhenry1969 central texas
@@_Mailman don’t know anyone around there sorry.
Bruh, I feel hella good watching these videos cuz im a teenager who's been doing MMA/BJJ/MUAY THAI since I was 5. Feels like a flex when I get all da points :)
I do MMA, mexican martial arts...
The only true art
You got that from GTA 5
Thanks for teaching us how to pick a good style/place to train.
And yes I did read the description 😁
Hope it helps! And woah!! That’s a first
Amazing how many boxes you can check with MMA training where you learn a well-rounded skillset that allows you to beat great strikers by taking them to the ground or beat grapplers by denying takedowns and working out of the clinch, then follow up by doing intense strength and conditioning.
Add occasional situational awareness and you have everything.
It’s like they do a good job of mixing everything together!... lol
@@SenseiSeth It's not the only way to get there but it's an effective way. It's cool how traditional martial artists have seen how their arts were lacking stepped up to the plate in recent years and started to put the techniques that used to be in their curriculums to make them well rounded back in and even added some of the new stuff we've learned from modern MMA. It's pretty cool that I have friends who train judo, jiujitsu, kung fu, and karate who all know how to fight for real, and I think that's probably not how it used to be in the 80s and 90s
Daido Juku Kudo has everything covered too.
I got 8 originally i had 9 because i counted submissions but we very rarely practice that but besides that i dont think those 8 factors are from my style necessarily but more from my DOJO. I do shotokan karate as of now for 3 and a half years and i love it, i dedicate all my free time to practicing. My dojo is more on the tradition side so we practice a good variety like karates traditional take downs etc. And we also have sparring classes which we just use everything that we have learn ( any martial art or techniques ) and we apply it. I love this video so much and i think its vital to the martials arts community to be thinking about stuff like this.
HEMA checks quite a few of those boxes, but I still wouldn't recommend you learn it for self defence lol
Nay! You merely must keep your sword at your hip!
Nothing but solid truth in this video. That point about capacity for knowledge is a big one, and one that people are going to have to consider when they choose a martial art. Getting involved in something like karate has what is needed in the curriculum, but the curriculum is massive. Martial arts are about personal goals, and one needs to be honest with themselves before they have their martial arts be brutally honest.
Many schools are forgetting , history, honor, sportsmanship, meditation , tactics, body mechanics, physical training for power,speed and enduranceas well as precision and that it is the person not the art that makes well rounded martial artists instead of thugs.
Sure 👍👍👍
Agreed! I trained in a Muay Thai gym that was focused on competition. Tons of strength training, tons os sparring, they were pretty honest about what they were teaching as well. BUT they also were straight up madmen! One of my teachers even was hired to beat the shit off people. One day a wife hired him to destroy her cheating husband, and paid extra for a broken leg. GTA stuff, man... Got out of there asap
Blah blah blah dude.
>history
How can you even say that and not realize that you're full of shit? If sth works, it doesn't have to have a "history". The "history" is told to you as make-belief.
>meditation
You might as well practice painting in your martial arts class. If stuff that's not directly relevant to fighting comes up too much, that's a clear indication of bullshido.
>tactics
You obtain tactics by sparring.
>physical training for power,speed and enduranceas
You can do that in your own time. No need to pay a "master" if you're just gonna do generic fitness exercises.
>that it is the person not the art that makes well rounded
In that case, why do you need instruction? BJJ works no matter who teaches whom. If it's "not the art", you are just admitting to be talking bullshit.
@@BrunoOliveira-xn7yr
I'd rather learn Muay Thai from a hitman than a Yoga teacher.
My weird path is Shotokan to JKD (mainly hand trapping and concepts) to Silat to sport BJJ. With the advent of the UFC and then the Bullshido website i question everything. Studied Keysi /defense lab stuff and pensador boxing i never had in the early days. Footwork and endurance. Loving your vids and honesty. I am not a martial artist, i am a Nerd sure....but i want to learn what i can use to survive on the crime ridden streets. My kicks are now only leg kicks because of back injuries due to age. But man I'm really into Muay thai and Lethwei (from your vid). I learn alot here man!
well I do both and teach both point sparring and sparring so two yesses there. Brutal honesty yes. I don't understand how you can really train with out it. You would just end up ignorant of your flaws. I dunno.
Mindful of your surroundings. Funny one. We adapt techniques for certain situations. So I guess so.
Throws and submission yes but it's not my forte. My Sensei who teaches me used to do celtic wrestling and championed it locally. Has a lot of knowledge of grappling. Sweeps are slightly different if you don't mind me saying but yes of course we do that.
In fact our syllabus for kyu grades is just scratching the surface when it comes to learning. Katas, strikes, kicks, sweeps, throws, takedowns and submissions. So I would say my karate ticks the boxes for most of these.
Honestly, if brutal honesty is involved I’m cool with most styles. Seems legit though!
@@SenseiSeth thanks. I'm kinda in the same boat with you. So many people just think that all I do is kata and teach kids kata. Karate is so much more than that.
1. Love this video, keep up the good work.
2. Honestly I just did the checklist and honestly I am surprised this fits the criteria... I know it may sound weird but when you think about it in a way it does.... Lightsaber Combat/Choreography...
"I whoop your-"
"But unlimited striking..."
I see what you did there =D
😂😂😂
Very well said i totally agree. I have been inn Facebook groups with ppl that have the mentality that sparring isn't needed. These members believe they are lethal but have never tested their technique.
I love a the comments from the TKD/Karate guys on here going "We do all 10!!!!" 🙄 You guys must be pumped your classes are full of future UFC champs.
Doing sloppy/bad take downs/submissions or ineffectual sparring doesn't count. You can try and slice a turd sandwich in to 10 pieces if you like. It's still a turd sandwich.
@taekwondo wt taekwondo itf They're still silly compliant drills they don't practice in sparring and are fairly useless though.
Besides, read the comments on here. There are plenty of TKD and karate folks here claiming they do "Judo/Wrestling/BJJ" moves in their training 🙄
I would think twice about calling someone an "idiot" online if you don't know the difference between *their* and *they're* .
@taekwondo wt taekwondo itf How old are you? When you just descend in to calling names (ad hominem attacks) you're basically admitting you've lost the argument.
The point is if you do compliant, non-resistant takedowns or restraints they can be highly dubious and not work at all in an actual fight. They usually will not work against someone resisting you. The way they train takedowns in MMA, with fully resistant sparring based on alive drilling, is totally different to the pre-rehearsed takedowns against a static opponent who doesn't resist that occurs in TKD.
Calling someone an idiot doesn't change that.
This vid made me feel very good about the dojo and instructor I found.
My Karate style hits all ten more or less.
1. Strength and conditioning. Yes push ups, situps, running, etc. Not unusual to do 100 pushups in a class.
2. Striking yes Karate, hands, kicks, elbows, knees, etc.
3. Throws, take downs, sweeps. Intermediate and above.
4. Submissions. Joint locks, arm bars.
5. Transitional wrestling. Clinch only but many also train in Judo and Jujitsu
6. Sparring. Yes free style required sparring classes. Major part of black belt test.
7. Situational awareness. This is our number one rule to avoid the fight. Use your brain.
8. Brutal honesty. Yes no martial art makes you superman, train for self improvement.
9. Sport competition. Not much one or two tournaments per year. We are NOT a tournament dojo more traditional.
10. High capacity of learning. We encourage cross training in other martial arts to gain knowledge and keeping things interesting
Bammmm! Good stuff Bob
If you cross train then it isn't karate anymore is it lol that makes it mma
@@paragon1782 My style has cross trained Karate, Judo and Jujitsu since the 1960's. All Japanese martial arts, even BJJ originates from Japanese Judo and Jujitsu.
@@paragon1782 Okinawa from where Karate comes has an indigenous style of wrestling and the Kata's also mostly from Okinawa have grappling and control techniques not just strikes.
@@timlinator but if you guys are "encouraging cross training" and many "also train in judo and bjj" then that makes it mma. regardless if traditional karate is more than just strikes and originated from Japanese jujitsu. Lol
Great vid Seth. I do traditional jujitsu which often gets a bad rap. We added sparring and a lot of striking in our program. I really agree it comes down to how you teach.
Taekwondo is legit
Ken Po 9/10. Having all those elements just seemed like normal, basic dojo stuff to me. Didn't realize how many styles don't do the things I consider basic. As a bonus bit, I love how it also taught me to be a better person in general. I would not be the man I am today without Ken Po as my style.
i need to send this to my friend, just so they can hear the phrase "maybe bcuz your striking sucks"
Awesome list! I’ve been using pretty that same mindset when working on our curriculum for our classes.
This guy "hates" TKD like IcyMike "hates" side kicks lol They both don't work. lol
I'm not even sure how they're different sometimes.
You know that I meant it ironically dotn you?
Side kicks also do work if you want to get a hip replacement when you are 50. Great for that too 😬😂
If someone attacks you with a knife sparring experience is what's helpful 👍 (this was sarkasm, i have to say this in case you did too much sparring)
There we go again bashing my kyokushin for it's rules :(. Most dojo do spar with gloves and punches to the head from time to time tho.
There's a box that should be on the list that Kyokushin usually ticks.
Drops your fees as soon as you hit Shodan to encourage you to take up a second style.
Most styles use gloves during spars where head contact is allowed in advanced classes when training because we don't want to kill each other... At large trainings it is not uncommon for someone to get some sort of injury despite the gloves and people pulling their punches during sparing. You know they are serious when they have the medical tables right there on the side of the floor with someone ready to treat people.
Love this video and you make some excellent points. Prior to watching and not knowing what was on the list I was not sure what to expect which was part of the fun. I very rarely post replies, but I figured I'd step out and do it here. Turns out we can check off all of the boxes. The members of my school (all adults as a side note) and I had a very good discussion about this video as I "assigned" this video as "homework" prior to their next training session. We've also looked at this not just from the view of a style being legit, but also how the school is presenting a style. You can have a legit style that is not well presented and thus the school even with good intentions may not be doing the things on your list, but the style certainly allows for the possibility of it.
Another factor we thought of that is honestly more school specific than style, is providing for a realistic training environment/realistic training conditions. While typing this originally I was expounding on this point, but my reply is already long enough and getting close to novel length. My apologies for that.
I very much enjoy your channel and thanks for all you are doing here.
I got a Joe Biden ad and didn't skip it. I deserve a heart
Ryan Liu if you don’t know if you’re for chubby surprise or not, you ain’t Black belt.
Wish I could give you two ❤️❤️
Ryan Liu since I got a heart for my reply, I humbly gift you that one. 😎👍
I think 6 for me...
I've been taking some Krav Maga classes for the past couple of months. I was/am partly interested in the physical exercise aspects of it, but I am also interested in the self-defense aspect of it as well. I picked the place to go to based mostly on convenience-- it's right next to where I used to work (I just recently lost my job because the company I worked for let a lot of people go "due to the impact of COVID", or so they say, anyway) but the Krav Maga place I go to was on the way home... I didn't have to go out of my way at all to get there. Even though I lost my job, it's still convenient to go because it's still within walking distance of where I live. I mostly focused on the convenience part because I don't necessarily feel like I have/had enough knowledge or expertise to figure out what the best (or most legit) school I could possibly go to is, so I figured the best choice I could make was to find a place where it is as easy as possible to go when I want to go. There is also a Jiu-Jitsu place right next to the Krav Maga place I go, and I took a free lesson there as well before I made my decision on where to go.
Anyway, so far, we have not been taught any throws, takedowns, sweeps
, submissions, or transitional wrestling, but we have learned a lot of striking; fists, elbows, knees, and kicks. As far as the throws, takedowns, etc., I wouldn't necessarily say Krav Maga doesn't have any of those things, I'd bet it's probably more a case that I just haven't been taught those things yet... as I said, I've only been going for a couple of months, or so. Other than that, the only other thing from your list that isn't (or doesn't seem to be) part of Krav Maga is the competitions.
On the other hand, there is definitely an emphasis on strength and conditioning, striking I already talked about. We haven't actually sparred yet in any of the classes I've gone to, but we have done a lot of drills that are about as close to sparring as you can get without actually sparring. Plus, there is an adult sparring class available every Saturday morning-- I haven't been to it yet, but I plan on going this Saturday.
You can simplify this down to 1 box: Is your martial art the one I practice? If not, it’s not a real martial art
Lmfaooo
@@SenseiSeth Ey b0ss, my MA checked all the boxes, do you give it a martial Michelin Star? 🤪
Well done, keep up the good work, if this list bothers anyone, they have much to think about.
Truth, thanks Mark!
Taekwondo (ITF), if you are at the right school, has around 9 aswell.
But I guess you'll never leave your bias behind. 🤷♂️👌
Lol I’ve said numerous times how it’s very possible to get good TKD training. I think you just take my jokes a little too seriously
@@SenseiSeth Maybe my tone seemed to harsh.😁
I actually enjoy your content.
Keep it going.👌
In fairness to Seth, good, well rounded TKD schools are as rare as hen's teeth. It's much easier to find an MMA gym where you know you'll get a good well rounded education, rather than finding a 1 in a 1000 TKD school.
My master trained an ITF and WTF and has been with WTF tae kwon do for many years. He teaches the importance of discovering who we are as martial artists. Teaching us the importance of minimal contact and almost full contact but inside of the rules where we can hit. And teaches us many different philosophies for power. Also skin conditioning and some body conditioning. He takes a traditional /Modern approach to Taekwondo and stresses the importance of forms. And also some basic self-defense every once in a while.
He teaches us timing and not to waste energy on our opponent and getting to know our opponent more. I have grown so much and him teaching me the importance of loving others and treating them well. And exploring and being creative with being respectful. But also thinking outside of the box and doing stuff in different ways sometimes if the other one is not effective for us or we just don’t understand it.
He has formed us into kind and respectful martial artists and not taking advantage of his power. Also knows how we learn and also some of our past and knows how to help us work around stuff. Mentally and physically.
And is never scared to tell us the truth respectfully
I don’t think I would’ve gained as much respect if I hadn’t had a positive role model. We might not be fancy flippers or kickers all the time. And do cool acrobatic skills. I would say five points probably.
I think MMA has all of these except situational awareness.
Pretty much
Agreed, but TBH aside from something like RBSD like Systema or Krav no one really does situational awareness.
I checked all the boxes but I would add letting you instruct. I say that because when I got my advanced belts and started teaching I learned a ton myself.
The Karate school I own scored 9+/9, although competition gets the least attention on the list. The biggest issue I've had is students/parents willingness to train daily. Most people want 2-3 days only. That makes for a very long journey to mastery with the plethora of material available to learn. Great content Sensei.
Very true. But the society we live in people just don't have that sort of time as we progress through stages in life. As a young single man, I did. As a 37 year old married man, not so much. 2x is about all I got in me unless I can go on a day off and train multiple times in that day. I guess it speaks to the importance of getting into it early in life instead of later in life.
I have a feeling there is a TKD-is-no-martial-arts MEME out there which this guy wants to establish. lol
Somebody up to make a meme? Or a T-Shirt for merch? lol
I think greco is a very underrated system. Handfighting is seldom taught properly. And I think Greco and Muay Thai could work very well together and create a nightmare matchup of a clinch fighter.
Something that makes a coach legit is the teacher should be able to think in systems and get the students to think in systems.
Situational drilling is also vital to add proof to your system.
Every school, regardless of style should teach students how to break fall properly.
Coaches that take non-competitors serouisly in improving their technique is just ❤
Most of my martial arts training in my life has been in boxing and JKD. And while they’re great sports I think sparring and versatility with submissions and more sparring should be something I should take more seriously in the future if I wanna learn how to truly hold my own
Yh it’s good to be versatile
Not all points get as much emphasis as others, but we've got all 10 points on the board!
Shorinji Ryu Karate, btw. Our sensei is awesome. He really emphasizes brutal honesty and situational awareness.
This is spot on. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Finally I can agree.... About 85%. Left a few elements out but I agree.
This is an awesome list.
Taekwondo where I train (apparently different to a lot of places)
Condition & Strength - yes
Striking - Some, we train sometimes in WTF fight style sometimes in self defence. So obviously no limits on striking in self defence
Takedowns, sweeps, throws - A limited amount but we do a few takedowns/throws
Submissions - No
Transitional wrestling - No
Sparring - Yes
Situational awareness - Some but not extensively trained as such.
Competition - Plenty
Brutal honesty - My instructor is pretty honest with us. Explaining the difference in technique between things learnt for WTF comp vs anything else. I don't think anyone there would legitimately think that WTF fighting would work on the streets.
High capacity learning - Definitely lots to learn.
We are lucky at our club as they also train in Hapkido (one that I haven't found you mention anywhere before) and BJJ. So I do a combo of BJJ and TKD. They work well together for me. But I also have never actually getting in to a fight outside of a controlled environment. So only tested in sparring/comp in the 2 different arts.
PS. Only found your videos a few days ago and loving all of them.
Yeah same. I feel like my school isn't the usual TKD McDojo that only shows techniques and stuff. So I think partly Seth's dislike of TKD is because of all the bad schools there are and if you got a good one, then TKD can really be great
Hrmm...
The style I spent the most time with was a particular form of Hapkido, and based on the stuff I did during my three years:
1. Strength and conditioning - Yep. Rolling and jumping until you were gassed, squats to warm up, sometimes simple weapon katas until your arms were noodles. (1)
2. Striking - A bit, pretty much every class, but it was never the focus. (0.5)
3. Takedowns, sweeps, throws - All day long. (1)
4. Submissions - Yes, though usually these were portrayed as the beginner/safe version of techniques otherwise meant to maim (1)
5. Transitional wrestling - A little. Early on if you got a technique wrong or it didn't work you'd just start over, but later there was more work on struggling, and everyone had to practice dealing with what they called "strength against strength" grab drills. (0.5)
6. Sparring - Again, a little. This got practiced by higher belts, and tests did involve "think on your feet" situations where someone came at you and you had no idea what they were going to do, but for the lower belts there was a big focus on having your techniques/throws/rolls/falls down before you could be trusted not to hurt yourself or someone else. (0)
7. Situational awareness - Yes, this got talked about a lot, practiced in non-combat situations, and even worked into some drill and technique practice. I even credit it with helping me grab a pick-pocket's hand just as he was about to get my passport & credit card. (1)
8. Competition (0)
9. Brutal honesty - It was all about personal self defense, defense against someone coming into your personal space and grabbing or striking at you, and dedication. There was a little bit of fluff and nonsense, but the core worked for what it was. (1)
10. High capacity learning - Absolutely, always more ways to improve, variations on techniques against different approaches or different types of opponents, etc. (1)
7 Total. I can live with that.
The Krav Maga-based self defense place I went to for a while after that I think would get an 8 or 9, based on that, though they didn't consider themselves a style. A "system" instead.
To sum up for later self:
1. Conditionning : no need to crush your fist into makiwara but your practice should definitely improve your shape and physical capabilities.
2. Striking
3. Throws /Takedowns/Sweep
4. Submissions
5. Transitional wrestling : a very important but understated one. A fight typically takes you where you don't want to go. Clinches (fight off and prevail in case of 'entanglement') and transitional wrestling (sprawls, staying up when adv want to take you down, pin adv down when he tries to stand back up) is critical in that aspect
6. SPARRING. SPARRING. SPARRING. Or pressure testing. Don't train in air or only w/ compliance if you wanna learn to fight and defend your self. Simulate the situation you training for. SPARRING. And not complacent sparring. You don't need to risk your life at every training for it to be legit.
7. Situational awareness
8. Sports and competition
9. Brutal Honesty : this one is more about you. Know what you're seeking and don't fool yourself. It's ok to practice for fun and tricks. Just know you're not prepared for a malevolent encounter and act accordingly. It can quite be much worse to think you know when you actually don't...than to just not knowing and being aware of your ignorance.
10. High capacity if learning : depth to the discipline, to keep you interested and evolving. It has nothing to do with the apparent complexity of the curriculum/techniques tho
A very solid video, imo. Well done. After years of practice in different styles, I came to a suprisingly identical checklist.
To me this video is more about how to know a dojo is legit more than a whole MA. Because all MA have potentially all of the above (widely speaking, dont neat-pick) but it's all about how it's taught...what quality, toward which perspective. And is the content aligned with what advertised ??
Great list, Sensei Seth!
9/10 - Incredibly thankful for it every day.
Nicee, what style?
Bujinkan: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 (depending on dojo), 7, 10. Some people and dojos have 9 as well but all too many lack it so better to leave that out. So the style score many points on the list (7-9 depending on the dojo), but many would still deem it unlegit.
Hey, Sir, I was wondering if you could evaluate the style I'm being taught under with this. I'm mainly learning it because the area I live in isn't necessarily that safe, and wanted to know what you thought on if this would work for why I'm learning based off your checklist.
Crouching Boar Kung Fu-
---------------------------------------------
Strength & conditioning: check
(unlimited)Striking: check
Throws & sweeps: check
Submissions: lacking
Sparring: check
Situational awareness: check
Sport/competition: lacking
Brutal honesty: * visible ptsd from 1st day at the dojo* check
High learning capacity: Not sure since I've only been doing it for about 2 years, but so far I'd say yeah. Check
You should also add,
Multiple attackers
Weapons
Both the pre and post fight
Scenario training
What are the laws and reasonable force in your country
How to avoid a fight, and being aware of your surroundings
Pressure testing
Training in different environments
So, as you can see, there are so much more to self defense than what you learn in combat sports.
Pound sign Brutal Honesty!...did I just show my age there? It matters not! I'm trying to bring back the pound sign. And now I'm gonna bring back the Brutal Honesty to my training - Thank you Sir! Great video!🙏
Buhurt checks all the boxes. Especially the fun and sparring parts.
You hit the nail on the head. My system hits 9 out of 10 as well. Great video!!!
Lau Gar 10/10 buuuuuuuuuuut very teacher dependent. I'm really lucky to have teachers that dig into transitional wrestling, into sweeps, into situational awareness, into honesty etc.
Great video, many ( not all) Jeet Kune Do schools do most of this, including full contact sparring and grappling. Again, not all schools, but Dan Inosanto is a big believer of live testing your art. Again some don’t but these schools are missing out.
Wing Tsung : Strinking Yes , Stength and Kondition Yes, Sparring Yes , Takedowns Yes, Awareness is a centralpoint in the Trining from Bodyawarenes to Situation awareness.
1:31 So grateful you presented Master Gushi. This martial art has considerable strength and conditioning drills as seen in this time stamp. _Sanchin Gami_ is a farmer's walk on steroids.
I have boxing and I counted 6
Sensei punched me the hardest mentally and I still havent recovered since then. Even scared to go to his livestream now.
Sensei revealed in one of his stream that he is 25 and that was enough of a hard punch.
I teach World Yoshukai Karate. We do: 1. Strength and conditioning. 2. Striking. 3. Sweeps. 4. Sparring, both sport and full-contact. 5. Situational awareness I go over when teaching self defense. 6. We don't train to compete, but we do compete and we have big Open Karate tournaments. 7. Definitely honest. 8. High capacity learning. Something else we do are board breaks (1-inch thick pine boards) for everyone and heavy breaks (concrete, bats) for Black Belts who want to do them.
Thank you, Sensei Seth! I like brutal honesty.