Indie Game Developer VS. AAA Developer: Which Path Is Right For You?
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- Опубліковано 9 лис 2022
- Jason Weimann and I compare and contrast the two paths, answering the questions: which path is better for you, and why. We're also going to give some tips on how to make the best decision for your career path. So if you're wondering which path to take, this is the video for you!
Jason Weimann and I debate about which career path is better, AAA or indie! In this video, we're going to answer the question: Indie Game Developer VS. AAA Developer: Which Path Is Right For You?
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Which path do you think is easier: indie game development or AAA development?
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One thing that I recommend is to study in a college. I am currently doing a bachelor s degree in game development in SENAC (it is a college from Brazil, I am Brazilian).
The networking and the motivation you can get is worthless and you can learn from other people with similar interests, but with a variety of backgrounds in art, programming, writing and management. (Or with no background at all)
Don't try to make games by yourself, try to find some type of group. The loneliness can kill your motivation and remember most of the successful indie games were made by a group of people, not lonely wolfs.
I think there is no easier path, depends a lot on what you want and what skills you have. Personally, I want to start in the indie development because most of the game studios in Brazil have small or medium size teams.
I think as an indie, there is something to be said about owning a piece of digital media that you developed. Even though the path is harder to walk.
@@notunlikegames1747 LOL
@@notunlikegames1747 lol
I'm making a triple A game from my basement, howboutdat
im making a game with 400 random places for a PIC16F887 microcontroller to spawn, howboutdat
AAAy
Im making a basement from my AAA office. Where is your gods now?
Great discussion, thank you for the video!
I have a few things to add. For context, I am a AAA game developer and I do indie games in my free time
AAA is much easier than indie, I totally agree with that. But as to "Which Path Is Right For You", I think it's much more complicated.
For me, the most important factor when making a choice between AAA and Indie is fulfillment.
As a AAA dev I'm working on games that are bigger than any of my dream games could ever be, and it's so cool to see everyone talk about those games, and feel proud of my team. I feel extremely lucky to be involved in the current project that I'm working on.
But with Indie games I get a much deeper, more personal connection to the game, and to the players, which makes it so much more fulfilling than AAA.
Also, AAA usually has better work environment and many benefits compared to indie, but it doesn't give you the same level of creative freedom. This could be important to some people. Important enough to put up with the indie struggle.
I actually just released a video on this topic inspired by your discussion, check it out if you're interested.
I'd liked to add to your comment but as a question... Is your current location also important? I live in Latin America, recently graduated from architecture and my dream is to work making videogame concept art. Currently working a dayjob but my salary is not even close enough to justify moving countries to a different place. If I wanted to apply for a big studio making games is it possible to do so remotely? Again, I'm nowhere near the US, Canada or Europe and moving is difficult for me. Is there any hope? Or should I just try going indie?
@@jullcepts8780 it's definitely possible to do full remote. The company where I work offers full remote work positions, with the condition that once / twice a year you come to the office for some big event for a few days, and they pay for your tickets and everything. I know for a fact other companies also have full remote arrangements.
A lot of companies also offer relocation packages that fully cover all expenses for moving you (and your family members, if needed) to the location, and also provide a place to stay for the first few months. I know multiple people from Latin America in my company who got relocated.
If I were you, I would try making a very small polished indie game to build a portfolio, and then I'd use it to apply for jobs.
We can chat more if you'd like, I'm happy to answer your questions
thank you for this comment. I am currently switching from Graphic Design to Game Programming. Really loved how you mentioned the personal connection when it comes to Indie games vs AAA but also gave AAA some love at the same time. I think I would be better in AAA field tbh ... I also had a question, I am currently taking a course provided by a college near me that's around 12 months. It's not a associated degree or anything like that but it specializes in Game Design and Development, what is the best advice you can give to me when it comes to getting into AAA should I focus on my portfolio showing that I know how to work on certain mechanics or just showing that I know how to overall program ? I know some people get hired and never went to college, but I am curious on your look on this topic.
@@ConflictGamingHD I think having a portfolio is really important. My advice would be to make a few tech demos or even small finished projects for your portfolio. I found that the easiest way to do that is by participating in game jams.
If you have any specific company where you want to work in mind, make a demo with mechanics similar to what they have in their games.
Also, be careful with being too ambitious with your portfolio projects. It's better to make something small and complete, than big and unfinished. The most important thing for your portfolio is to showcase that you are able to deliver a final product.
@@ConflictGamingHD In my opinion, the most important thing to show in your portfolio is that you know how to get projects done
Smaller, completed projects are more valuable than larger, unfinished ones. So it's better to do something simple for your portfolio, even if it's not very ambitions or original
I found that participating in game jams is a great way to finish projects
And final advice, if you take anything from this comment, it should be this: find a gamedev company that you like and create a short demo with mechanics that are similar to their games. Use that to get an interview with them. It'll really help you stand out
Good luck!
What he says about being versatile is so true. I had to start learning modeling/animating/rigging and other aspects so I won’t have to rely on others as much, and I can “wear all the hats”
I can 100% confirm that it is possible to get started in games from the Customer Service angle.
I have been using Unity for almost 10 years, but I didn't quite have the experience to work as a programmer professionally.
There was an opening for a Customer Service position at a Game Company and I got the job.
Made good friends with the programmers who gave me lots of awesome advice.
From there, got a job in QA and continued having good working relationships with people while working on my skills on the side.
Eventually a Junior Programmer position opened up and I've been working as Unity Developer for 3+ years :D
Lots of opportunities can present themselves in non-obvious ways!!
Do your best to grow your skills, treat people well, and you will eventually land that job!!
And do you have work/balance?
@@DoctorSoulis I would say sometimes it's tough but overall, I think so :)
Spending an hour a day every day seemed to work better than 8 hours+ a day once a week and felt like I had more free time that way.
100% agree with the tremendous amount of work to build the tools to make the design much easier! Made even harder for indie, designing / building tools and implementing the systems for the game ends up being like 2 entire projects in itself (6+ months a piece) haha!
Would completely recommend building amazing and flexible tools for an indie studio, being data-oriented lets you scale up from being just a one-person team and enable designers, world builders, etc. to easily build assets for the game - freeing you up to build awesome systems that make use of those tool assets, making it much more approachable to build massive games with small teams
I am a Indie Game Company and I am proud of my journey. Growth will happen step by step just stay humble along the way. If you like to program or do other task in Gaming working for any company can be great but know your worth. If your doing everything anyways go indie. If you just want to focus on one programming or art work for a company that respects your talent or offers growth in the future.
30:00 @ThomasBrush, wouldn't you want to hire people to fill your "skillset voids" rather than a smaller version of yourself? Then you can build a team where the sum is greater than its parts
loved this video! Would love to see you discuss if multiplayer or story mode games is more successful for an indie studio :)
The intro is a masterpiece.
You also have to take into account the country where you live. It's almost impossible to find a triple-A position in my country.
Then Build an AAA Game stuido then 😉
I feel like Thomas should start a podcast
I don't know if he is still doing episodes but he does have one on spotify
Much props to Jason Weinman for working on an Everquest series game. Loved playing all of them. Much props to Thomas Brush on Pinstripe was a great 2.5d game. Haven't tried Coma yet, but I hear great things. And thank you both for giving back to the GameDev community.
Cool change of pace Thomas! Loving it, thanks!
45 min long? as interesting as it is I don't think I have the time to watch this :/ ... *45 minutes later* ... I can't believe I watched the whole video, keep them coming please C:
Hey can you give me a quick summary? :D
That intro trailer was awesome I felt like I was getting ready to watch a Tyson fight XD.
Thank you both for the video, I really enjoyed the conversation and also thank you for answering my question.
"Connections" That makes me sad too , Thomas. And it explains a lot of the struggle I have been through. But thanks to people like you ,and Lost Relic games ; I can see my end game now.
Thank you for this conversation!
As someone who works in QA, and started in the industry at a triple-A studio (I actually worked on EverQuest (the first one, not EQ2)), and has since transitioned to indie, I'll throw in my unsolicited 2cp here, and point out that while having connections is incredibly helpful in getting a foot in the door, larger triple-A studios sometimes hire a lot of QA testers as they work towards launches. So often folks without connections can come in as part of a ramp up. It's usually just temp work, but it's a way to get industry experience.
Thanks you guys! this was awesome to watch
Thank you. It's really interesting!
Nice chat guys, definitely interesting to see the differing sides of the coin. Also, Jason thumbs up for 2pac in the bg.
Thank you for this content!
Hi Thomas, to answer your question about the trailer earlier from your livestream, the trailer and title of the game is GeomeTrip. its a roguelike game where your character are, yeah Shapes. 😁 Thank you. 😁
Love this content thank you guys
Two of my favorite UA-camrs!
Hey Thomas. In the video, you talked about having a portfolio. Could you tell us what a good portfolio should include?
Great video! Really interesting perspectives ... Person note: I did have an offer from Infinity Ward back in late 2020, to have an interview with their artists after being spotted with Neyyah on facebook. If successful, I could have moved out to LA to work in their studios (once COVID permitted travel). However, it was at this time that Microprose had also approached me ... and I could be funded full time to make my first person adventure game, Neyyah, to continue living and breathing my game but on a whole new scale, to really breathe life into the world I'm developing, and having Microprose's brand behind Neyyah ...
It was a no brainer for me.
I chose Microprose. I chose indie game development. I chose to keep to myself, do what I do, my way.
You've been a big inspiration, Thomas, and it's great seeing your journey develop too. Great chat with me and Thomas from July on the development journey of my game Neyyah available here: ua-cam.com/video/AHC8qRK9BZY/v-deo.html
Hey @ThomasBrush would you do intern contract work, remotely so people who have taken yours and Jason's courses? That way they can help build a portfolio. Something like debugging or QA your game code to learn?
Thanks Jason!
I am currently working on my indie game but it is a good stress
Will this be availabe on spotify?
This is where the fun begins.
Not gonna lie, the intro was epic!
Which of best software for game developing
Wait, I really am digging that sweatshirt where can I find one? Lol
whats the difference between this course and his course?
thank u jason
I must be blind, but where is the link to Jason's video?
10/10 intro wow very epic
I got three As on my math tests
Hi Thomas,I'm 13 yo boy and I work on my game not soo successful little
platformer 2d and I can see I cant handle school and programming and development .
What should I do?
Please answer.
I would focus on school, to the amount that is necessary at least. With the leftover time you can do gamedev stuff. 13 is still really young, there is a ton of time to learn even if it's slower due to you being able to spend less time on it. If you manage to release some games and build a portfolio over the next few years, that would be a great start to be employable in the gamedev industry when you're 18 (or earlier, depending on laws/regulations where you are at). You probably shouldn't skip out on your secondary school or college degree though in case of the game dev stuff not going as expected.
@@dreamisover9813 Thanks for advise am stil good at school I heave 5(I'm from Bosnia) or A
Focus on school
@@KinunTV I know school is important but in my heart and soul I heave dream of becoming the game dev and heaving my game
@@bakirsekic7893 Oh that sounds great! Good luck on your journey! What grades show is often how diligent a student is, which is a good sign for employers. But depending on the field later, companies might look more for actually having a degree (as minimum requirement) and grades in relevant topics for the job might be important, but others might not so much be. But for jobs like game dev, having a portfolio, shipped titles, maybe some github projects you can show can help a ton regardless of degree. And while the degree might get people in an interview, when you have the job, your skills decide if you are able to keep it or not.
Lastly, for people that weren't as good in school but know they are good in programming/game dev etc., having networking events about the topic either irl or online might help to connect with potential employees without them filtering you out immediately due to a lack of degree. (You should still focus on school ofc, but just my few pieces of experience for the job world)
Woah, def isn't just 3 studios over here in Seattle anymore. Washington state is the 2nd best place for AAA gamedev no?
it's so wild to think I live in the same state as you 🤣 world's not so big after all
Yooooo
yooooooooooooo
Thomas, it looks like you left out the link to Jason's channel/video.
ua-cam.com/video/OhS2QYRbeEc/v-deo.html
Cary NC is home of Epic Games..
Father Christmas. Is that you?
IM EARLY, PRAISE ME PEAPLE PRAISE ME
I hope I'm not the only one who read this as "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH game developer vs indie game developer"
Apic and crapy, how did you guys make this Amazing pice of art??
Mhm…
My friends, do not be preoccupied with this nonsense, it is nonsense for which they receive money for such discussions, which I do not know. Unity is one of the worst experiences you'll ever have if you've worked on 3D games. Imagine the guy on the left prefers Unity even in the mmorpg games . Do not be preoccupied with such discussions, as they are discussions emanating from possibilities and circumstances. Your capabilities and circumstances are completely different from these two people.
Im making a triple aaa game from my toilet
Hell yes!
2:49 Really? You are throwing at your audience a scarcity marketting tactic like that? I hope you do that to show off your marketting skills, not to actually make people choose your course out of FOMO. You are a bad liar mr Brush and it sems to me, you do not like to do those things. Then why not going 100% honest with people and stop bull$#!+? Does it really pay that better to manipulate people?
I am genuinely curious, Because I have a moral issue right now. I wonder, if manipulating people to my own benefit is evil or not. I don't know really. It's not that it is my fault that a fish cannot distinguish between a treat and a bait. It is really a supervillains dillemma I guess, Isn't it actually helpful? When we manipulate people We give people a chance to finally learn not to fall prey to "sharks"...Maybe it is even morally better to use those tactics?
Oh these nature metaphors...
cringe