My roommate screamed for years and he said yeah it doesn't hurt and I can go back to cleans no problem. A few years later he said he lost range. He was lacking some discipline and just going crazy
I've been doing metal and grind vocals for roughly 25 years, but in those early days, I took some classical lessons and the ONE line from a teacher that stuck with me forever was "if you have to try hard, you're trying too hard." Ever since then, I always looked for a way to make whatever sound I was looking for feel effortless as possible.
@@deprofundis442 I absolutely LOVE THIS!! Yes, one of the biggest mistakes I and my students make is trying hard to sing. You shouldn’t have to “try hard.” It should be effortless once trained properly. I think the road to that stage is the part we most often damage our voices on. Take care, friend!😊🙏
I was a screamer at my HS band and was doing it wrong. I damaged my voice and had to completely stop any vocals that werent soft cheat-head voice for 8 years. Then Chris Liepe videos helped me relaern it in a healthy way!
Justin Bonitz' (Hungry Lights) videos are a GOLD MINE. The video where he corrects his old techniques is loaded with so much good info for beginners and intermediate vocalists alike. Title is 'How To ACTUALLY Metal Scream | Debunking Misinformation'
his vocal course on his patreon is great too. and hes VERY committed to making sure people get the basics down safely first, he never moves anybody forward to advanced stuff if they’re still struggling. i think thats admirable lol
@@Qwertymnbvcxzygc if his own techniques that he uses, which he teaches, doesnt screw him up, i highly doubt he's screwing up his students. he doesnt even let you advance in his lessons if you dont have the basics down lol 😂
@ his voice is pretty roughed up, and I’ve heard from other students of his that his fry techniques consistently make him hoarse. Which honestly makes sense. His false cord stuff isn’t horrible, but doing fry from a glottal level will always be destructive to some level. The vocal cords are meant to wave together (regular phonation) doing fry from the vocal cords will always be no bueno. But blame Mellisa cross for that one
@@ShooterExyou’re 100% correct! There’s plenty of things you can do with your voice that might not hurt you immediately but cause damage you’re not actually feeling. This is why getting classically trained is so important for your vocal health! You’d be surprised how similar a healthy screaming technique is to classical singing!
@@frostfireee28 there are also things that might kinda hurt in some instances but actually do almost to none permanent damage to your voice, not more that talking, in fact
Remember! This is true regardless of genre. I grew up singing musical theater before switching to metalcore. I almost lost my voice around 18 because every music director I had was telling me to push hard to get a "deeper" sound while singing high. I have a naturally high, bright, thin voice. So, their "advice" resulted in me almost exclusively singing from my throat. My range quickly went from a little over an octave at 15-17, to barely 1 octave at 18-19. I had to completely quit performing and restart my vocal journey from square 1 at age 20. My coach helped me completely rebuild my voice, and now (at age 24) I can sing much more freely and with a much wider range than I ever could. Now, I write and sing songs like Sleeping With Sirens or Pierce the Veil because it just feels good for my voice to sing, not because I'm trying to sing against my type and artificially create a lower voice like I was before. If you find yourself struggling with singing (in any genre), these are the most important things you need to know. 1) DON'T PUSH FOR VOLUME. Volume comes over time only, I repeat, ONLY after developing proper, relaxed technique. You must start from a quieter place, similar to sighing. You should start a little quieter than speech volume. I recommend practicing with a Decibel Meter, so you can be aware how loud you are. Once you hit 80 decibels, your brain internally "turns down the volume" of your own voice to preserve your eardrums and prevent self-inflected harm. This is the main reason why people push so hard for volume despite probably already being loud enough. So be intentional. Start from an easy place in your lower or middle register. Quiet sounds aren't just for falsetto. Eventually over months of practice (even years), you will naturally gain more volume without needing to push once your muscles start doing what they want to do, not what YOU want them to do. This also means don't push past your limits. If you can only sing for 5 minutes in the day when you start, then only sing for 5 minutes. If your voice starts to hurt, immediately stop. If your voice starts to feel hoarse, immediately stop. If you find your speaking voice feels weird or off after practicing, you need to adjust your technique and probably sing for shorter periods of time. 2) EMBRACE YOUR VOICE. Many people try to mimic their favorite artists' voices, but it's probably hurting more than it's helping. Take the time to analyze your voice with a vocal coach once you start to get the hang of the foundational elements of singing. If you haven't figured out how to sing in a relaxed, comfortable way, then you can't do this part. You may be artificially changing your voice. Once you DO have the hang of it, figure out what your vocal type is. I don't just mean bass, baritone, tenor, alto, mezzo, soprano. I mean the subcategory of the main category. For example, I'm a leggiero tenor, so the way I train my voice in lessons is going to be slightly different from a dramatic or lyric tenor. (Yes, you need to take singing lessons if you want to scream. You will be using the same foundational techniques to scream in a healthier way). 3) BE PATIENT AND KIND TO YOURSELF. This is arguably the most important aspect of singing. Just like any kind of muscle, training your voice takes a long time. You wouldn't wake up one day and expect to be able to run a marathon without running a mile first, so you shouldn't wake up and expect to be able to sing high notes or belt or mix or scream immediately with 1 UA-cam video. 90% of singing is a mental battle. If you keep telling yourself "It's too hard" "It's too high" "I can't do it" "I suck", then you are just becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Instead try to always remind yourself that it is a journey, and you WILL get there one day. There is NO DEADLINE to becoming a great singer. You can spend the rest of your life learning and training (and honestly you should never stop honing your technique). TLDR: Embrace your natural voice and be patient to yourself. Do not push to speed up progress. It will only set you back. Start slow, easy, and in a comfortable range. Over time you'll naturally figure out how to make the sounds you want to when you let your vocal folds do what THEY want to.
@@afy_jb Love this!!! You have good experience to speak from, as opposed to most people who talk about vocals without trying like we did.🫡 P.S. You win the prize for longest comment😆😆
Metal singer here, working with a sound reminiscent of testament, gojira, machine head, etc. I used to have a terrible technique, and after a while it started to affect my vocal health. There is apparently a feedback loop, the more swollen your chords are, the more likely you are to use bad technique even after your voice returns to normal (spoiler - it sounds and feels normal way before it actually is). I had to learn to focus on the feel and breathing as opposed to the sound I was aiming for. Doesn't matter if your tone is not 100% where you want it, you don't push on any regular occasion, and MAYBE a little bit for rare things like a live show recording. Don't lose hope, in my experience it's hard to really wreck your voice, but sometimes it takes a while to heal.
Im so glad i learned extreme vocals. I had completely lost my falsetto and high range (leaving my singing range at bass to mid tenor) and now after 7 years of extreme vocals i found my high alto again :D Now i find extreme vocals and higher notes to be as natural as speech
Hey there! As another type of vocal doctor, I want to emphasize that what your ENT told you about either being a harsh vocalist or power metal vocalist is completely untrue. It is truly about finding the right techniques, and you should be working only with highly qualified teachers to help you accomplish this.
dude ive been following your instagram for a lil bit now. I've always looked up to your skill and thought your vocals have been amazing and otherworldly, but seeing and hearing about your struggles is REALLY motivating. it makes you seem human - an insanely skilled human. it makes your skill level seem somewhat attainable. super motivating. youre amazing dude :)
Man, I lost my voice once from singing while I was sick. Never again! It took about 4 weeks to recover my speaking voice (I couldn't speak) and about 3 months to get back to singing. But somehow, I feel like my voice has never been the same. Can still high though.
Oof, that's a rough one. If you ever find yourself in a situation like that again and you still need to sing, a vocal cooldown like descending hums on an "mm" can be really helpful for bringing your voice back to a resting place. Obv best thing is not to sing, but sometimes life is like that!
Screaming isn't actually a scream at all. Proper technique shouldn't do any damage. The problem is most vocalists don't take the time to do it right because they wanna do it now. So they just do whatever they think sounds good. I highly suggest checking out Andy Cizek's vocal course with Chris Liepe. He shows you exactly how to do it right and it sounds incredible (And no, I'm not a bot lol)
@@FirozGgg so how do you explain people like Jens Kidman from Meshuggah, someone who's been screaming at a professional level for literally over 30 years?
Our band uses IEM and I used to listen to how my voice sounds. Recently when practicing and rehearsing with a band I've been more aware of how my voice feels when making a certain sound or hitting a certain note. This change of mindset has helped me a lot with my vocal technique, especially during a live show!
I learned how to metal scream here recently, and whenever it hurts for me or my vocal chords start to feel like they're "touching", I push a little less. What I mean when the vocal chords touch is when your voice sounds a little deeper and grainer, like you went through a 2nd stage of puberty. That's when you are warmed up and are a little more ready to scream. If you push really super hard there, you can start to do damage to your voice and not have a good scream. If I do scream for a while, (like 2hr+ with proper hydration/throat coat) then it starts to hurt and then I stop.
Ya man, hydration is something I was NOOOOT good at lollll. I would drink soda and energy drinks more than water, which is so terrible for my voice. Great advice here, thank you for sharing. (Throat coat was in the mug :)
I was an counter-tenor and falsecord screamer for about 10 years without training. By some miracle, I never lost my voice once and I still have my 5th and up to 6th octave range. I teach English for a living. But, getting a vocal coach for my falsecord singing for the past 2 years really changed how I approached things. I was very lucky. I had the natural range and just learned how to sing and scream correctly by accident. Most people are not that lucky. Get a coach, see the doctor if you need to. You'll be fine. :D
YES! Apparently we have to learn the lesson of taking care of ourselves the hard way. Also, "clearing your throat" is pretty detrimental as well since you are essentially ramming your vocal folds together. The mucus then begins to overproduce since it is trying to heal the inflammation which makes the issue worse, so you "clear your throat" more... rinse and repeat. love that mug lol
Hey man, thanks for sharing your journey. This shit is never easy for any vocalist regardless of style, and it takes a lot of guts to admit when you're feeling out of it or suffering from the effects of poor technique/lifestyle. Big thanks for emphasizing REST: so so so important for vocalists! My voice teacher in college would straight-up refuse to a lesson if a student didnt have at least 6 hours of sleep the night before. Just wanted to say that I can tell you're feeling the weight of this injury a ton, but I encourage you not to let this beat you down. You can, and will, recover from this, and you can learn improved technique and new lifestyle choices to take better care of your voice (I mean, you already went over a bunch of changes in your video) and end up stronger than ever. I'm not super familiar with your background, but considering your style and what I'm hearing in your voice, I strongly encourage you to seek out someone who can teach you some more operatic technique tips. As a fellow high tenor, learning the ins and outs of how high notes work in the voice and how to approach, support, and back away from them saved me a ton of fatigue and potential damage. (Plus, I think you'll love some of the music as a power metal fan - one of my teachers used to say that opera is just "screaming in cursive.") Cheers, rest those vocal folds, and I look forward to hearing what you do next!
Dawg those Powerwind vocals were sick as hell, so on point. Alle Conti is my favorite singer and it took years, but I've gotten to the point where I can sing pretty much every song he's done with Trick or Treat, Twilight Force or Rhapsody, and I really felt what you said about 'If your favorite singer gave you their voice, would you take care of it?' I'm gutted to hear that your voice is damaged, and I pray you do recover as much of it as possible, you're hella talented.
Thank you for the kind words!🙏Yes, Alle Conti is one of my top 5, up there with Christian Erikkson and Fabio Line. Thanks for the encouragement, and keep going with your own music! :)
@@GarrettCampbell Love those guys as well! And no problem, thank you as well. I'm just about finished writing and producing demos for my first musical project. It's a power metal concept album in the style of Trick or Treat's Rabbit's Hill, and it's been such a rewarding process. Also challenging, since I'm doing it all on my own, all the metal musicians in my area are all death metal guys, no one's really interested in getting a power metal outfit together. Oh well. But I really dig what I've heard on your channel, I've wanted to start doing covers myself, I just have no talent for production. You do good work! Looking forward to seeing more!
Im not a metal singer or a professional singer but anytime a song hurts my voice I either try to lower it in my range or stop singing it if it hurts my voice.
Similar thing happened to me, it's been 5 years and am just now back to baseline by literally not singing. It sucks, but honestly if you love doing it, I would say take a 5 year break and start over. I'm already seeing how using proper techniques when I was rehabbing my voice, is helping me learn how to do it properly. Best wishes. Prayers for ya for healing.
My approach is to take things slowly and stop for a few hours or the whole day if I'm feeling like I'm done. However, my approach to vocals is very intuitive and sensation based, and I've learned to feel my voice out for signs of strain.
Great video. I've been doing metal vocals for 10+ years, had zero problems but I also got lucky - my technique was awful in the first years. If I could give only one tip, that would be: don't shout. If your breath pressure is in a good place, the likelihood of vocal damage will be greatly reduced. Plug one ear when practicing so that you can hear your tone better, and go from there. You need good tone, good harmonics, and you'll get that through repetition and tweaking - not by blasting out loud vocals when your body still hasn't built the correct muscle memory. Another extra tip: start with low larynx positions. Go for darker, deeper resonances, and build your way up to the higher screams. This also tends to keep you a bit safer when starting out. Metal screaming is NOT shouting, and it is absolutely possible to do it safely. If it hurts, it's wrong. (and of course, since it's impossible to get it perfect, if you've over-pushed REST until you feel that your voice is back to normal. Pushing through the pain is not going to make you the greatest singer ever, it's going to ruin your voice permanently.)
@@simeaudio Yes!!!! Love this. Metal screaming is not as simple as most people- even singers- make it out to be. There’s so many ways to do a good technique wrong.
lost like 1/3 of my range and got a permanent raspy voice for 4 months a few years ago. that really scared me and I quit doing harsh vocals after that. i mostly sing in a style a bit like jeff buckley/panic at the disco/queen, so if i do some jelling or even make some silly voices im often in big trouble. so i think choosing one over the other might be a good idea for some people.
Did the same thing when I did my first metal project, and now I can never sing as high again. I was the same as you. My control is now gone, I use to reach D5, now I can only reach it if I use falsetto (even then it's shaky). Even if I have proper technique now, doesn't matter. My dumb 17-year-old self-ruined my voice, and now I'm playing the guessing game. Thank you old me.
Blowing out your voice isn't a permanent thing unless you were coughing up blood and scarring your vocal folds (even then its just surgery). You just lost your voice one day doing it for fun at home, never rested and never actually trained/warm up daily, range is something that is dynamic, you have this idea that your vocal tract is only physically capable of a certain range, but the truth is it's something you train, daily. If you don't know how to train your range to begin with, how could you know that your voice is ruined. Daily warm ups (even when you arent singing that day) will get your range back and better than it was within around a week at worst once the swelling has gone down.
This gotta be one of my favorite videos of the year, everything from the energy to the lessons to the editing and the creator himself. I've been doing harsh vocals for like 3 years now but you are so right, it's the hardest part finding out what are the correct and wrong muscles to use when singing. Now I gotta be a functional human being as well to have good vocals? Well shoot... You got yourself a new subscriber, God bless man :))))
@@sausboi9677 Thank you! Learning how to use our human muscles while singing (and not the wrong ones) is the hardest part. It’s not like a guitar where you can see what’s going on. Thats why we must be careful, especially when training alone without a coach. Take care and thanks for the sub!!🙏🙏😊💪💪
I just can’t find the right screaming techniques and always hurt my voice, and it sucks, yeah and vocal rest is really important for beginners and people who struggle with screaming. Thx for the video mate, you deserve a subscribe 👍🏻
@leigor6020 Thank you! Ya, screaming is REALLY hard to do “right,” and who knows if there even is a “right.” I might make a video about how to fry and false chord scream; would that help?
I had enough warning before I started learning a couple years ago so I didn't damage anything thankfully. It is definitely a much needed warning for those learning and reminder for those who have been doing it for a while. I was very process based and it felt like it took forever to learn how to finally be able to sustain a scream but with taking my time, (since vocals are more of a hobby for me) I ended up actually having better control over my clean vocals and slightly extending my range from learning how to scream and use harsh vocals properly. Great video and thank you for putting your story out there as a warning to current and future vocalists.
This is a great video. I actually just stepped down from one of my bands as the lead singer because the range was destroying my voice. I didn’t have any pain or lasting damage, but I 100% realized that if I didn’t stop, it wasn’t going to be a lasting career. I’m still singing harmonies and screaming, but I’m no longer belting at the top of my range for 45 minutes every night.
It's very common for people to do this and it's very sad to hear stories like this. I'm glad you are taking it seriously now and your voice still sounds very good! I remember in high school, reading a classmate's blog where he talked about coughing up blood and he seemed like he was bragging about it. I thought that was extremely stupid. I started doing harsh vocals at the time myself, and I never pushed my voice if it started to hurt. Every online resource said not to do that, and it makes complete sense. Sometimes I think I am blessed that I never got into a band when I was young, because I possibly would have pushed my voice too far in order to not let people down.
I watched this even as a traditional vocalist. I got a very bad throat infection and lost a whole octave. I had to train my voice to gain more lows just to try and get half of that range back, cos the highs were completely unreachable. You definitely need to do the exercises, and push the right part of your muscles to sustain the volume without overtaxing the lyrnax. You can gain some range back with extensive recovery, but when it's gone and you get older you're just gaining back diminishing returns
Idk if its bad but i might feel a bit sore the next day if i overdo it, but i dont experience any pain or discomfort in the process and im able to go to clean vocals with ease ..but then next day i might FEEL "oh i practiced yesterday"
YES! I happen to know exactly what you mean. Please be careful when experiencing this kind of practice; over time, if you repeat these days of practice a lot, it can cause damage. Cheers, man!
I really appreciate that you're sharing this. Another great singer who almost lost his voice is Blackie Lawless, who talked about that experience in an interview. I think that he had to go months without even talking, if I remember correctly, or else he wouldn't have been able to sing again. Please be careful. If it hurts, it's your body telling you not to do something to prevent tissue damage.
I bet there is a playlist of professional metal voalists making a video like this "I screamed from emotion" "I never had a coach" etc are very common things to hear Take ur body and its health seriously! Dive into the annoying and boring things that your hobby involves! Invest in the fundamental and never put them down! I say this with love for art and artists
Back in the day we assumed the best thing to do was scream through the pain to like, build up calluses on your vocal chords....we were pretty dumb back then lmao. I saw a video clip of Jens Kidman from Meshuggah in the studio, I think during the recording of the Chaosphere album. He was straining to scream over and over but kept squawking out, with his voice pretty much sounding shot, and he just kept on screaming as hard as he could again and again until the raspiness actually gave way to the tone of his screams heard on the Chaosphere record. Badass sounding. Not that anyone should do that..
It’s not so simple telling the difference between vocal damage and normal vocal fatigue. Extreme vocals are called that for a reason, and when you’re learning them, certain techniques that may be correct in application will still feel scratchy or not completely comfortable. Knowing when to stop seems to be the most important thing. Bad technique will hurt you over time no matter what, but powering through the pain and not allowing rest seems to be where the worst damage occurs.
I feel man. I cant use certain techniques because they dont work with my cords. Ive been developing my own sounds and to most people it would tear their voices. I can tell people from 15 years of music, not every technique is for you. Every voice is different. Find what is safe for you and avoid anything that isnt.
Over a matter of years I’ve noticed a difference in range, but I actually hurt myself one time “singing” to Disturbed. Ever since then my upper range has been gone, so I just said “fuck it” and kept building my skills with growls. Never cared for my clean singing voice anyway. So I just “specialize” in growls now, but I’ve never toured or anything like that
I lost most of my range and clarity of my voice to various factors over the years. Worst is probably chronic inflammation due to problems with my immune system paired with very reckless overuse of my voice. When I was young, I thought my voice was so powerful that I could basically do whatever I wanted without any issue. My immune system is still fried and I must talk a lot for my job, so at this point, I've basically given up on ever fully revovering again.
anything is only good in moderation, and the skill to follow that moderation is very difficult and important to acquire... You can even work too hard. Even if you do everything absolutely perfectly as far as technique goes, but simply do it too much, you gonna end up with damage.
@@GarrettCampbell I've been on the verge of underweight but never went below, so either I've been lucky, or snacking has helped me stay in proper shape. Good luck to you, my guy!
Be aware of the volume of your performance. We vocalist shouldn’t be competing to be listened among other more powerful instruments, it is not a fair fight. All of the occasions I damaged my voice was because I was just trying to listen to myself and pushing way more intensity than I needed to. A well controlled environment in terms of volume always help.
It's scary that the first time I did screaming vocals in my workplace christmas party, this video pops in my recommendations. Thanks for sharing your experience. On another note, is that title a Yu-Gi-Oh! reference or what?
Great video, Garrett. Very informative and enjoyable. I lost my voice several months ago, luckily not for too long, but I lost a bit of my higher range for some time due to when I was recording vocal covers, I would literally sing as loud as I possibly could into my microphone, which I thought, at the time, was good, because the final product in the recording sounded stronger and less soft. It was then, however, that I realized it was not good for my voice and I literally could not talk for about a week. Since then I've been trying to train myself to practice good vocal technique to keep my vocals in good shape. I finally got my range back... now, anyway. On my latest vocal cover of the song Prometheus (by Luca Turilli's Rhapsody), I had to lower it a step down from its original key just so I could sing the high notes well because I was still trying to get that range back. Well long story short, finally got the range and power back into my voice. So now it's just a matter of *how to find time to work on more vocal covers that people will watch* ahahaha. But that's beside the point. When it comes to the heavy metal "screaming" like the heavier vocals you're talking about here, I've honestly never been able to do those well. But I appreciate being able to somewhat decently sing power metal vocals better. Once again, excellent video. However, I am curious as to what you're drinking in that mug throughout the video. Tea? Water? Coffee? Lol! You seem to be enjoying it alright, haha. Thanks for the tips, though. This video was a real eye opener.
@@Jillian_Rains Wow thanks for the message, Jillian! The mug contains throat coat for my sinus infection, lol. Yes, your concerns are valid and productive, only keep your voice feeling fresh. When you’re young and newer to singing, it’s much easier to push the voice with little adverse effects, but be vigilant about consistent vocal tension or even good intensity. Intensity SOUNDS cool in recordings, but learning to sing as QUIET as we can with equal power is a game-changer. Best of luck!!😊
@GarrettCampbell Oh yeah, I drink this throat coat tea before I sing or have to do long speeches. It's quite good. -- It was hard for me to get a decent voice back after, I am not joking, literally 14 years of singing-phobia. I didn't sing or listen to music for 14 years, which had a significant negative impact on my voice because I used to be able to hit all sorts of "operatic" high notes, if that makes sense😂 but since I've overcome that, I've been trying to regain what I once had, and then some. So it's definitely been a challenge but I feel I'm on a good path rn😅 and thanks again for the tips!
I started singing in high school. I was good, but not great. Then I stopped when I was in college. Lost my voice completely just from not using it. When I finally got back into it I sounded awful and after I practiced a lot, I sounded completely different. I think it’s just that when I was younger, I put way more of a growl in my voice and I’d shriek higher notes. I didn’t think about wearing my voice out and I’d just scream until I could barely talk. I really try to avoid doing that now.
If you had swelling in your vocal cords from overuse, that could have been Reinke's edema. Your speaking voice sounds very good now! What kind of therapy or rehab did you do to get your voice back? What kinds of exercises worked? I have some Reinke's edema and something else that they haven't been able to diagnose yet, but I have an appointment with an ENT in four weeks. I sent you an email about this just now! I go into some more depth there.
Hey Russell! So awesome to hear from you by email! Yes, I read the whole thing and will get back to you asap, but what I will say now is that learning when to speak less or less loudly has made a BIG difference for me. I have two jobs, one of which where I teach 11 year-olds, which gets very noisy. Learning to not speak as much, and sing more relaxed and less forced when I DO sing has been the best therapy for me. Also, going to a pro vocal coach-- who understands your genre!!!-- is great. Cheers man! Talk soon.
@@GarrettCampbell Well, thank you for making this video and being nice enough to offer your email! I appreciate these tips and look forward to your email whenever is convenient for you.
I lost my ability to scream years ago but somehow gained Suffo gutturals after damaging my vocal chords From what I learned, if they get damaged, I just stop for a week and am usually fine.
Classical training, people! If you're able to work with a voice teacher who has a background in vocal pedagogy and sings in a classical opera setting such as Italian Bel Canto, I cannot recommend it enough. It's not about learning techniques to "be an opera singer", it's about understanding the fundamental mechanics of how the voice itself works, and how to minimise the damage done to it. Highly transferable principles to whichever genre you wish to sing in, and you're more likely to maintain a full voice into your later years. Bear in mind that as far as the physical instrument itself goes, an average male singer's peak years should be in their 40s. Whenever you hear people say a singer sounded better in their "prime" and they're referring to their 20s, that's just detached from the reality of how the voice functions. But it's what a generation of consumers have come to expect, owing to a lack of expertise on the part of people peddling advice.
Too summirize some good points. Its not supposed too feel hard. Work on the basics if you start being sloppy then youre voice will pay. Drink water!!! And take small breaks even if you dont feel you need it. I took a g4 no clue if thats impressive for a dude but that made it feel like my vocalchords klickt into place in a good way. And afterwards you almost dont want to talk because youre singing teknik is so much better for your voice than you speaking voice. I mostly sing classical adjesent stuff and some Mongolian throat singing. Kind of fun harmenising with weird humming home appliances.
I thought having a vocal coach and learning proper technique was enough. Ive seen a video were Will Ramos from Lorna shore explains how he can do all the harsh vocals without hurting himself, all beacuse of a good tecnique.
I've been practicing harsh vocals pretty much daily for about 4 years now, basically self taught other than a few videos from creators that a lot of other people have mentioned here (justin bonitz, andy cizek, mark from kardashev, etc.) to get me going. I've never lost my voice and i can speak and sing cleans just fine after a session, but sometimes my voice definitely feels _tired_. Not really painful, but tired, almost like i just ran really hard or something. Should i be worried? It's never really bothered me before but reading some of these comments has me a bit nervous
@@yellowsaurus4895 So glad you asked!! Don’t be “worried,” but take warning that if you PUSH your voice when it’s tired, you increase risk of injury. I sang so many times when my voice was already tired from singing the day before or whatever, and slowly the freshness of voice after a night didn’t come back as much. Bottom line: If you CONSISTENTLY push your voice when it’s already tired, you WILL suffer vocal inflammation and damage in the long run. Rest up as much as humanly possible! The fact that you can do all that shows you have some killer technique, so be grateful for that! Be careful with your instrument and have fun!😊👍🙏
Nothing is permanently changed--- if I continue to rest my voice and not overuse it. The kicker is if I strain it, it will get worse and worse and is hard to reverse. Good question! Hope that helps... XD
If you've got overuse issues remedies will help much except water, there is singers/throat tea but its not like it touches the vocal chords. I highly recommend looking for speech therapy exercises, especially the ones focusing on the voice. They are a game changer. Helps get my voice back faster after a nasty cold especially when I've been coughing and feel the damage from that! But in general you can't go wrong with it to help for recovery as its focused on that!
Incorrect technique daily for like 10-12 years never did anything to me, just a bit tired every now and then. Now 2-3 years with proper technique daily and can scream along to a playlist 12 hours a day without any issues ever.
@@GarrettCampbell Nothing official, living in a small rural town in Australia means I don't have access to anyone in person so it's 95% been learning off people online and then getting the singer of my mates band to confirm if I was doing it right one time when they came and did a local show haha
Nope! You can still be mindful and take care of your voice. I reccomend talking at a volume at which your voice can operate at minimal effort. Take care! :)
but how do you reconcile this with e.g. will ramos? i'm sure you've seen the video that went viral where his throat etc was checked by doctors and he was super healthy, in fact his vocal health was above average. no damage at all. another great example is landon tewers, has been screaming for ages and still has an amazing singing voice.
@@jensassmann Great question! My screams are not exactly the same as Will’s, so he may do something that I don’t that makes him able to do it comfortably and loudly. Personally, I’m still trying to get my screams that “big” while staying relaxed. I wonder if it has to do with speaking volume as well…
What issues would someone who whisper sings might have? Is it similar to the issues a scream singer would have? I sing in a specific range that isn't super common for my specific voice type: my voice type naturally gravitates to Eb Locrian. Which doesn't really lend itself to scream singing, as the sound is already extremely dissonant and jarring.
Interesting... wow! You have a quite unique voice, which is fantastic! Just be careful to not push too much air through your windpipe when whispering, as it can dry out your voice and cause issues. Good luck! :)
The best screams are the ones that sound voice destroying, unfortunately. If it sounds like playing it safe then it sounds boring. There are singers who've managed to only improve their singing ranges despite decades of vocal abuse (Kyo of Dir en grey, Sukekiyo, and Petit Brabancon being probably the best example), though. I say go hard or go home when it comes to this stuff.
I've never heard of an artist having a problem unless they're a performer.. If the song is already recorded I don't understand why we're playing it again in front of people when the artist could be putting effort towards making something new. Imagine if the Mona Lisa was painted over and over again five nights a week in every city possible.
Because it's fun to perform in front of people and everyone is vibing. It also shows their *actual* talent, because it's pretty easy to do a ton of takes and nail it once for a recording. Real skill is doing it live consistently without damaging your voice.
This will be a strange and random question. Do you believe in God? Edit: Holy balls, I just looked at your channel. I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this now haha.
My roommate screamed for years and he said yeah it doesn't hurt and I can go back to cleans no problem. A few years later he said he lost range. He was lacking some discipline and just going crazy
Oooof, ya a lack of discipline, or "screaming mindfully" is probably the most dangerous thing I've seen.
I've been doing metal and grind vocals for roughly 25 years, but in those early days, I took some classical lessons and the ONE line from a teacher that stuck with me forever was "if you have to try hard, you're trying too hard."
Ever since then, I always looked for a way to make whatever sound I was looking for feel effortless as possible.
@@deprofundis442 I absolutely LOVE THIS!! Yes, one of the biggest mistakes I and my students make is trying hard to sing. You shouldn’t have to “try hard.” It should be effortless once trained properly. I think the road to that stage is the part we most often damage our voices on.
Take care, friend!😊🙏
I was a screamer at my HS band and was doing it wrong. I damaged my voice and had to completely stop any vocals that werent soft cheat-head voice for 8 years. Then Chris Liepe videos helped me relaern it in a healthy way!
@@floricane Chris is the best! Absolute best! Have been a fan for years💪🎙️
Justin Bonitz' (Hungry Lights) videos are a GOLD MINE. The video where he corrects his old techniques is loaded with so much good info for beginners and intermediate vocalists alike. Title is 'How To ACTUALLY Metal Scream | Debunking Misinformation'
@@Sergio-nb4hj Yep, I love those vids and they’ve helped me heal for sure❤️
his vocal course on his patreon is great too. and hes VERY committed to making sure people get the basics down safely first, he never moves anybody forward to advanced stuff if they’re still struggling. i think thats admirable lol
He teaches botched techniques… most people on UA-cam do
@@Qwertymnbvcxzygc if his own techniques that he uses, which he teaches, doesnt screw him up, i highly doubt he's screwing up his students. he doesnt even let you advance in his lessons if you dont have the basics down lol 😂
@ his voice is pretty roughed up, and I’ve heard from other students of his that his fry techniques consistently make him hoarse. Which honestly makes sense. His false cord stuff isn’t horrible, but doing fry from a glottal level will always be destructive to some level. The vocal cords are meant to wave together (regular phonation) doing fry from the vocal cords will always be no bueno. But blame Mellisa cross for that one
If it "feels bad" then it's doing damage. If it doesn't feel bad, you're fine.
@@robertgriffith3670 100%🫡
That's not 100% true, because some things might feel alright but actually do harm your voice
Like smokin crack@@ShooterEx
@@ShooterExyou’re 100% correct! There’s plenty of things you can do with your voice that might not hurt you immediately but cause damage you’re not actually feeling. This is why getting classically trained is so important for your vocal health!
You’d be surprised how similar a healthy screaming technique is to classical singing!
@@frostfireee28 there are also things that might kinda hurt in some instances but actually do almost to none permanent damage to your voice, not more that talking, in fact
Remember! This is true regardless of genre. I grew up singing musical theater before switching to metalcore. I almost lost my voice around 18 because every music director I had was telling me to push hard to get a "deeper" sound while singing high. I have a naturally high, bright, thin voice. So, their "advice" resulted in me almost exclusively singing from my throat. My range quickly went from a little over an octave at 15-17, to barely 1 octave at 18-19.
I had to completely quit performing and restart my vocal journey from square 1 at age 20.
My coach helped me completely rebuild my voice, and now (at age 24) I can sing much more freely and with a much wider range than I ever could. Now, I write and sing songs like Sleeping With Sirens or Pierce the Veil because it just feels good for my voice to sing, not because I'm trying to sing against my type and artificially create a lower voice like I was before.
If you find yourself struggling with singing (in any genre), these are the most important things you need to know.
1) DON'T PUSH FOR VOLUME. Volume comes over time only, I repeat, ONLY after developing proper, relaxed technique. You must start from a quieter place, similar to sighing. You should start a little quieter than speech volume. I recommend practicing with a Decibel Meter, so you can be aware how loud you are. Once you hit 80 decibels, your brain internally "turns down the volume" of your own voice to preserve your eardrums and prevent self-inflected harm. This is the main reason why people push so hard for volume despite probably already being loud enough. So be intentional. Start from an easy place in your lower or middle register. Quiet sounds aren't just for falsetto. Eventually over months of practice (even years), you will naturally gain more volume without needing to push once your muscles start doing what they want to do, not what YOU want them to do. This also means don't push past your limits. If you can only sing for 5 minutes in the day when you start, then only sing for 5 minutes. If your voice starts to hurt, immediately stop. If your voice starts to feel hoarse, immediately stop. If you find your speaking voice feels weird or off after practicing, you need to adjust your technique and probably sing for shorter periods of time.
2) EMBRACE YOUR VOICE. Many people try to mimic their favorite artists' voices, but it's probably hurting more than it's helping. Take the time to analyze your voice with a vocal coach once you start to get the hang of the foundational elements of singing. If you haven't figured out how to sing in a relaxed, comfortable way, then you can't do this part. You may be artificially changing your voice. Once you DO have the hang of it, figure out what your vocal type is. I don't just mean bass, baritone, tenor, alto, mezzo, soprano. I mean the subcategory of the main category. For example, I'm a leggiero tenor, so the way I train my voice in lessons is going to be slightly different from a dramatic or lyric tenor. (Yes, you need to take singing lessons if you want to scream. You will be using the same foundational techniques to scream in a healthier way).
3) BE PATIENT AND KIND TO YOURSELF. This is arguably the most important aspect of singing. Just like any kind of muscle, training your voice takes a long time. You wouldn't wake up one day and expect to be able to run a marathon without running a mile first, so you shouldn't wake up and expect to be able to sing high notes or belt or mix or scream immediately with 1 UA-cam video. 90% of singing is a mental battle. If you keep telling yourself "It's too hard" "It's too high" "I can't do it" "I suck", then you are just becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Instead try to always remind yourself that it is a journey, and you WILL get there one day. There is NO DEADLINE to becoming a great singer. You can spend the rest of your life learning and training (and honestly you should never stop honing your technique).
TLDR: Embrace your natural voice and be patient to yourself. Do not push to speed up progress. It will only set you back. Start slow, easy, and in a comfortable range. Over time you'll naturally figure out how to make the sounds you want to when you let your vocal folds do what THEY want to.
@@afy_jb Love this!!! You have good experience to speak from, as opposed to most people who talk about vocals without trying like we did.🫡
P.S. You win the prize for longest comment😆😆
Man, I'm really sick of MT instructors not needing to know wtf they're talking about. Glad to hear you're making great strides with a new teacher!
Metal singer here, working with a sound reminiscent of testament, gojira, machine head, etc. I used to have a terrible technique, and after a while it started to affect my vocal health. There is apparently a feedback loop, the more swollen your chords are, the more likely you are to use bad technique even after your voice returns to normal (spoiler - it sounds and feels normal way before it actually is). I had to learn to focus on the feel and breathing as opposed to the sound I was aiming for. Doesn't matter if your tone is not 100% where you want it, you don't push on any regular occasion, and MAYBE a little bit for rare things like a live show recording. Don't lose hope, in my experience it's hard to really wreck your voice, but sometimes it takes a while to heal.
Thank you so much!! This is so encouraging, and I'm glad you've found hope as well for your own voice! :)
Im so glad i learned extreme vocals. I had completely lost my falsetto and high range (leaving my singing range at bass to mid tenor) and now after 7 years of extreme vocals i found my high alto again :D Now i find extreme vocals and higher notes to be as natural as speech
@@xrkronii This is awesome news! So glad for you! Screaming is so freeing👌🤘
Hey there!
As another type of vocal doctor, I want to emphasize that what your ENT told you about either being a harsh vocalist or power metal vocalist is completely untrue. It is truly about finding the right techniques, and you should be working only with highly qualified teachers to help you accomplish this.
Thank you for the advice! Good to know, and very encouraging. 🙏🙏
@@GarrettCampbell best of luck to you on your journey! Don't give up 😊
@@KristinStarkey Thank you so much!🙏😊
dude ive been following your instagram for a lil bit now. I've always looked up to your skill and thought your vocals have been amazing and otherworldly, but seeing and hearing about your struggles is REALLY motivating. it makes you seem human - an insanely skilled human. it makes your skill level seem somewhat attainable. super motivating. youre amazing dude :)
@@anba-nx7hq Aw thank you so much! 😊You’re so kind. I just hope my experience- and life as well- can help others in theirs. See ya around!🙏💪🎙️🎹
Man, I lost my voice once from singing while I was sick. Never again! It took about 4 weeks to recover my speaking voice (I couldn't speak) and about 3 months to get back to singing. But somehow, I feel like my voice has never been the same. Can still high though.
@@michelsantana9312 Wow thanks for sharing! What sickness was it, if I might ask…
@GarrettCampbell It was a common cold. I kept pushing even though my voice wasn't there.
@@michelsantana9312 Eeee. I’m sorry.
Yeah you shouldnt sing if you are sick
Oof, that's a rough one. If you ever find yourself in a situation like that again and you still need to sing, a vocal cooldown like descending hums on an "mm" can be really helpful for bringing your voice back to a resting place. Obv best thing is not to sing, but sometimes life is like that!
Screaming isn't actually a scream at all. Proper technique shouldn't do any damage.
The problem is most vocalists don't take the time to do it right because they wanna do it now. So they just do whatever they think sounds good.
I highly suggest checking out Andy Cizek's vocal course with Chris Liepe. He shows you exactly how to do it right and it sounds incredible
(And no, I'm not a bot lol)
@@JohnPickup-CDHS-ze6qd Chris Liepe is the best💪
Thats false dude. It only can Minimize the damage. Harsh vocals with some exceptions are destructive for the voice.
@@FirozGgg source?
@@FirozGgg so how do you explain people like Jens Kidman from Meshuggah, someone who's been screaming at a professional level for literally over 30 years?
@@FirozGgg that's bs ^^
Our band uses IEM and I used to listen to how my voice sounds. Recently when practicing and rehearsing with a band I've been more aware of how my voice feels when making a certain sound or hitting a certain note. This change of mindset has helped me a lot with my vocal technique, especially during a live show!
This is AWESOME!! Love these ideas!
I learned how to metal scream here recently, and whenever it hurts for me or my vocal chords start to feel like they're "touching", I push a little less. What I mean when the vocal chords touch is when your voice sounds a little deeper and grainer, like you went through a 2nd stage of puberty. That's when you are warmed up and are a little more ready to scream. If you push really super hard there, you can start to do damage to your voice and not have a good scream. If I do scream for a while, (like 2hr+ with proper hydration/throat coat) then it starts to hurt and then I stop.
Ya man, hydration is something I was NOOOOT good at lollll. I would drink soda and energy drinks more than water, which is so terrible for my voice. Great advice here, thank you for sharing. (Throat coat was in the mug :)
I was an counter-tenor and falsecord screamer for about 10 years without training. By some miracle, I never lost my voice once and I still have my 5th and up to 6th octave range. I teach English for a living. But, getting a vocal coach for my falsecord singing for the past 2 years really changed how I approached things. I was very lucky. I had the natural range and just learned how to sing and scream correctly by accident. Most people are not that lucky. Get a coach, see the doctor if you need to. You'll be fine. :D
Thanks for the advice, man! I've been working with a coach for about a year now, and it's been awesome! Cheers! :)
YES! Apparently we have to learn the lesson of taking care of ourselves the hard way.
Also, "clearing your throat" is pretty detrimental as well since you are essentially ramming your vocal folds together. The mucus then begins to overproduce since it is trying to heal the inflammation which makes the issue worse, so you "clear your throat" more... rinse and repeat.
love that mug lol
Go Chiefs! :) Yes, my throat-clearing habits are not too great either loll thanks
Hey man, thanks for sharing your journey. This shit is never easy for any vocalist regardless of style, and it takes a lot of guts to admit when you're feeling out of it or suffering from the effects of poor technique/lifestyle. Big thanks for emphasizing REST: so so so important for vocalists! My voice teacher in college would straight-up refuse to a lesson if a student didnt have at least 6 hours of sleep the night before.
Just wanted to say that I can tell you're feeling the weight of this injury a ton, but I encourage you not to let this beat you down. You can, and will, recover from this, and you can learn improved technique and new lifestyle choices to take better care of your voice (I mean, you already went over a bunch of changes in your video) and end up stronger than ever. I'm not super familiar with your background, but considering your style and what I'm hearing in your voice, I strongly encourage you to seek out someone who can teach you some more operatic technique tips. As a fellow high tenor, learning the ins and outs of how high notes work in the voice and how to approach, support, and back away from them saved me a ton of fatigue and potential damage. (Plus, I think you'll love some of the music as a power metal fan - one of my teachers used to say that opera is just "screaming in cursive.")
Cheers, rest those vocal folds, and I look forward to hearing what you do next!
You're a true champion. Thanks for sharing your insight; it was very encouraging! :)
Dawg those Powerwind vocals were sick as hell, so on point. Alle Conti is my favorite singer and it took years, but I've gotten to the point where I can sing pretty much every song he's done with Trick or Treat, Twilight Force or Rhapsody, and I really felt what you said about 'If your favorite singer gave you their voice, would you take care of it?' I'm gutted to hear that your voice is damaged, and I pray you do recover as much of it as possible, you're hella talented.
Thank you for the kind words!🙏Yes, Alle Conti is one of my top 5, up there with Christian Erikkson and Fabio Line. Thanks for the encouragement, and keep going with your own music! :)
@@GarrettCampbell Love those guys as well! And no problem, thank you as well. I'm just about finished writing and producing demos for my first musical project. It's a power metal concept album in the style of Trick or Treat's Rabbit's Hill, and it's been such a rewarding process. Also challenging, since I'm doing it all on my own, all the metal musicians in my area are all death metal guys, no one's really interested in getting a power metal outfit together. Oh well. But I really dig what I've heard on your channel, I've wanted to start doing covers myself, I just have no talent for production. You do good work! Looking forward to seeing more!
@ Wow, that sounds wonderful! Best of luck, and let me know when it’s out!🎶👍🤘
@@GarrettCampbell Thank you man, I sure will! 🤘
"Yeah i am not talking about high notes" proceeds to hit a C#5 casually
@@somekindofdude1130 Lolllll what can I say😊😅
Im not a metal singer or a professional singer but anytime a song hurts my voice I either try to lower it in my range or stop singing it if it hurts my voice.
@@theoutsiderjess1869 Very wise of you! Yep, work with your strengths and grow your weaknesses slowly and safely… unlike me who wanted to rush it😭😂
Similar thing happened to me, it's been 5 years and am just now back to baseline by literally not singing. It sucks, but honestly if you love doing it, I would say take a 5 year break and start over. I'm already seeing how using proper techniques when I was rehabbing my voice, is helping me learn how to do it properly. Best wishes. Prayers for ya for healing.
@@blakemorgner This is great news! WOW! So glad you’re on the up and up😊👍
Thanks for creating this video 🤘🏽 gonna keep everything you said in mind!
@@Lotus_vocalist So glad it was helpful bro👍😊
My approach is to take things slowly and stop for a few hours or the whole day if I'm feeling like I'm done. However, my approach to vocals is very intuitive and sensation based, and I've learned to feel my voice out for signs of strain.
Great video. I've been doing metal vocals for 10+ years, had zero problems but I also got lucky - my technique was awful in the first years. If I could give only one tip, that would be: don't shout.
If your breath pressure is in a good place, the likelihood of vocal damage will be greatly reduced. Plug one ear when practicing so that you can hear your tone better, and go from there. You need good tone, good harmonics, and you'll get that through repetition and tweaking - not by blasting out loud vocals when your body still hasn't built the correct muscle memory.
Another extra tip: start with low larynx positions. Go for darker, deeper resonances, and build your way up to the higher screams. This also tends to keep you a bit safer when starting out.
Metal screaming is NOT shouting, and it is absolutely possible to do it safely. If it hurts, it's wrong.
(and of course, since it's impossible to get it perfect, if you've over-pushed REST until you feel that your voice is back to normal. Pushing through the pain is not going to make you the greatest singer ever, it's going to ruin your voice permanently.)
@@simeaudio Yes!!!! Love this. Metal screaming is not as simple as most people- even singers- make it out to be. There’s so many ways to do a good technique wrong.
lost like 1/3 of my range and got a permanent raspy voice for 4 months a few years ago. that really scared me and I quit doing harsh vocals after that. i mostly sing in a style a bit like jeff buckley/panic at the disco/queen, so if i do some jelling or even make some silly voices im often in big trouble. so i think choosing one over the other might be a good idea for some people.
Good thoughts! Regulating how much to "push" your voice is huge👌Best of luck!
Did the same thing when I did my first metal project, and now I can never sing as high again. I was the same as you. My control is now gone, I use to reach D5, now I can only reach it if I use falsetto (even then it's shaky). Even if I have proper technique now, doesn't matter. My dumb 17-year-old self-ruined my voice, and now I'm playing the guessing game. Thank you old me.
@@ViceAVERSA-w6f Wow I feel that🙏😓
Blowing out your voice isn't a permanent thing unless you were coughing up blood and scarring your vocal folds (even then its just surgery).
You just lost your voice one day doing it for fun at home, never rested and never actually trained/warm up daily, range is something that is dynamic, you have this idea that your vocal tract is only physically capable of a certain range, but the truth is it's something you train, daily. If you don't know how to train your range to begin with, how could you know that your voice is ruined.
Daily warm ups (even when you arent singing that day) will get your range back and better than it was within around a week at worst once the swelling has gone down.
@ Yes, I’ve been working with a professional vocal coach on exercises to recover, and I’ve come a long way! :) The thumbnail is just for clicks tbh😂😂
@@GarrettCampbell I wasn't actually replying to you but haha
I wish you well on your safe recovery.
@ Lolll my bad, thanks!😂
This gotta be one of my favorite videos of the year, everything from the energy to the lessons to the editing and the creator himself. I've been doing harsh vocals for like 3 years now but you are so right, it's the hardest part finding out what are the correct and wrong muscles to use when singing. Now I gotta be a functional human being as well to have good vocals? Well shoot... You got yourself a new subscriber, God bless man :))))
@@sausboi9677 Thank you! Learning how to use our human muscles while singing (and not the wrong ones) is the hardest part. It’s not like a guitar where you can see what’s going on. Thats why we must be careful, especially when training alone without a coach. Take care and thanks for the sub!!🙏🙏😊💪💪
I just can’t find the right screaming techniques and always hurt my voice, and it sucks, yeah and vocal rest is really important for beginners and people who struggle with screaming. Thx for the video mate, you deserve a subscribe 👍🏻
@leigor6020 Thank you! Ya, screaming is REALLY hard to do “right,” and who knows if there even is a “right.”
I might make a video about how to fry and false chord scream; would that help?
I had enough warning before I started learning a couple years ago so I didn't damage anything thankfully. It is definitely a much needed warning for those learning and reminder for those who have been doing it for a while. I was very process based and it felt like it took forever to learn how to finally be able to sustain a scream but with taking my time, (since vocals are more of a hobby for me) I ended up actually having better control over my clean vocals and slightly extending my range from learning how to scream and use harsh vocals properly. Great video and thank you for putting your story out there as a warning to current and future vocalists.
@@CompetitiveCupcakeUSPSA So glad you enjoyed it! Cheers!😊🙏
This is a great video. I actually just stepped down from one of my bands as the lead singer because the range was destroying my voice. I didn’t have any pain or lasting damage, but I 100% realized that if I didn’t stop, it wasn’t going to be a lasting career. I’m still singing harmonies and screaming, but I’m no longer belting at the top of my range for 45 minutes every night.
@@BradsGonnaPlay Good for you, man! So glad you’ve made that leap of faith and are recovering💪
It's very common for people to do this and it's very sad to hear stories like this. I'm glad you are taking it seriously now and your voice still sounds very good!
I remember in high school, reading a classmate's blog where he talked about coughing up blood and he seemed like he was bragging about it. I thought that was extremely stupid.
I started doing harsh vocals at the time myself, and I never pushed my voice if it started to hurt. Every online resource said not to do that, and it makes complete sense. Sometimes I think I am blessed that I never got into a band when I was young, because I possibly would have pushed my voice too far in order to not let people down.
@@vincentjohnson7175 You have such a positive outlook on life! Good for you! Stay safe and take care, Vincent!🙏👍😊
I watched this even as a traditional vocalist. I got a very bad throat infection and lost a whole octave. I had to train my voice to gain more lows just to try and get half of that range back, cos the highs were completely unreachable. You definitely need to do the exercises, and push the right part of your muscles to sustain the volume without overtaxing the lyrnax. You can gain some range back with extensive recovery, but when it's gone and you get older you're just gaining back diminishing returns
@@BlueJayWaters Good thoughts! Thanks for sharing!👍
Idk if its bad but i might feel a bit sore the next day if i overdo it, but i dont experience any pain or discomfort in the process and im able to go to clean vocals with ease ..but then next day i might FEEL "oh i practiced yesterday"
YES! I happen to know exactly what you mean. Please be careful when experiencing this kind of practice; over time, if you repeat these days of practice a lot, it can cause damage.
Cheers, man!
I really appreciate that you're sharing this. Another great singer who almost lost his voice is Blackie Lawless, who talked about that experience in an interview. I think that he had to go months without even talking, if I remember correctly, or else he wouldn't have been able to sing again. Please be careful. If it hurts, it's your body telling you not to do something to prevent tissue damage.
@@maggiepie8810 Amen. Your voice is like a muscle; if you strain it over and over, you’ll have a muuuuuch longer recovery. 🙏👌
I bet there is a playlist of professional metal voalists making a video like this
"I screamed from emotion" "I never had a coach" etc are very common things to hear
Take ur body and its health seriously! Dive into the annoying and boring things that your hobby involves! Invest in the fundamental and never put them down!
I say this with love for art and artists
@@shoppingcart238 If you love a hobby, invest in it! Yes, professional guidance always helps👍💪
Back in the day we assumed the best thing to do was scream through the pain to like, build up calluses on your vocal chords....we were pretty dumb back then lmao.
I saw a video clip of Jens Kidman from Meshuggah in the studio, I think during the recording of the Chaosphere album. He was straining to scream over and over but kept squawking out, with his voice pretty much sounding shot, and he just kept on screaming as hard as he could again and again until the raspiness actually gave way to the tone of his screams heard on the Chaosphere record. Badass sounding.
Not that anyone should do that..
It’s not so simple telling the difference between vocal damage and normal vocal fatigue. Extreme vocals are called that for a reason, and when you’re learning them, certain techniques that may be correct in application will still feel scratchy or not completely comfortable. Knowing when to stop seems to be the most important thing. Bad technique will hurt you over time no matter what, but powering through the pain and not allowing rest seems to be where the worst damage occurs.
@@CunchwapSupeme I like that. “Powering through the pain” is a good way to put it👌
If it hurts. STOP. Reassess what you’re doing.
@@joshuafrato 100%🙏
I feel man. I cant use certain techniques because they dont work with my cords. Ive been developing my own sounds and to most people it would tear their voices. I can tell people from 15 years of music, not every technique is for you. Every voice is different. Find what is safe for you and avoid anything that isnt.
@@KingDadBod666 Great wisdom! Thanks man🙏🙏
Yes I know the pain, I did the same thing with cycling. Overdoing it and not knowing your limits is not wise.
@@HairyPixels You know it, bro💯
Over a matter of years I’ve noticed a difference in range, but I actually hurt myself one time “singing” to Disturbed. Ever since then my upper range has been gone, so I just said “fuck it” and kept building my skills with growls. Never cared for my clean singing voice anyway. So I just “specialize” in growls now, but I’ve never toured or anything like that
@@MitzvotTV Good idea to pick one thing and stick with it!
I lost most of my range and clarity of my voice to various factors over the years. Worst is probably chronic inflammation due to problems with my immune system paired with very reckless overuse of my voice. When I was young, I thought my voice was so powerful that I could basically do whatever I wanted without any issue. My immune system is still fried and I must talk a lot for my job, so at this point, I've basically given up on ever fully revovering again.
@@Andy_Rose90 Same here, my friend. It’s a fragile instrument😓
8:20 when creating video is more important than watching GTA 6 trailer that just dropped 💀
@@pasha7324 😂😂
anything is only good in moderation, and the skill to follow that moderation is very difficult and important to acquire... You can even work too hard. Even if you do everything absolutely perfectly as far as technique goes, but simply do it too much, you gonna end up with damage.
Exactly!! Love this 💪
Guess I'm cursed, I cannot sleep on an empty stomach, it'll keep me awake.
@@Badguy292 I’m the same way, bro, and even my doctor wants me to eat before bed since I’m severely underweight. It’s tough.🙏
@@GarrettCampbell I've been on the verge of underweight but never went below, so either I've been lucky, or snacking has helped me stay in proper shape. Good luck to you, my guy!
Be aware of the volume of your performance. We vocalist shouldn’t be competing to be listened among other more powerful instruments, it is not a fair fight. All of the occasions I damaged my voice was because I was just trying to listen to myself and pushing way more intensity than I needed to. A well controlled environment in terms of volume always help.
@@Somewhatdamaged1989 Amen! Never projecting 100% is huge👌
"If it hurts, you're doing it wrong."
It's scary that the first time I did screaming vocals in my workplace christmas party, this video pops in my recommendations. Thanks for sharing your experience.
On another note, is that title a Yu-Gi-Oh! reference or what?
So glad my humble candid rant was helpful to you! loll Ya, maybe a slight reference there... :)
I did my first harsh vocals (fry scream) on a party too because I can’t sing, lol
@agsicodpslahavwshxausudusi7327 bro i did the rapping and screaming in Bring Me To Life cause I can't sing either hahaha
@ lollll
@ lollll love that song
Great video, Garrett. Very informative and enjoyable. I lost my voice several months ago, luckily not for too long, but I lost a bit of my higher range for some time due to when I was recording vocal covers, I would literally sing as loud as I possibly could into my microphone, which I thought, at the time, was good, because the final product in the recording sounded stronger and less soft. It was then, however, that I realized it was not good for my voice and I literally could not talk for about a week. Since then I've been trying to train myself to practice good vocal technique to keep my vocals in good shape. I finally got my range back... now, anyway. On my latest vocal cover of the song Prometheus (by Luca Turilli's Rhapsody), I had to lower it a step down from its original key just so I could sing the high notes well because I was still trying to get that range back. Well long story short, finally got the range and power back into my voice. So now it's just a matter of *how to find time to work on more vocal covers that people will watch* ahahaha. But that's beside the point. When it comes to the heavy metal "screaming" like the heavier vocals you're talking about here, I've honestly never been able to do those well. But I appreciate being able to somewhat decently sing power metal vocals better. Once again, excellent video. However, I am curious as to what you're drinking in that mug throughout the video. Tea? Water? Coffee? Lol! You seem to be enjoying it alright, haha. Thanks for the tips, though. This video was a real eye opener.
@@Jillian_Rains Wow thanks for the message, Jillian! The mug contains throat coat for my sinus infection, lol. Yes, your concerns are valid and productive, only keep your voice feeling fresh. When you’re young and newer to singing, it’s much easier to push the voice with little adverse effects, but be vigilant about consistent vocal tension or even good intensity. Intensity SOUNDS cool in recordings, but learning to sing as QUIET as we can with equal power is a game-changer.
Best of luck!!😊
@GarrettCampbell Oh yeah, I drink this throat coat tea before I sing or have to do long speeches. It's quite good. -- It was hard for me to get a decent voice back after, I am not joking, literally 14 years of singing-phobia. I didn't sing or listen to music for 14 years, which had a significant negative impact on my voice because I used to be able to hit all sorts of "operatic" high notes, if that makes sense😂 but since I've overcome that, I've been trying to regain what I once had, and then some. So it's definitely been a challenge but I feel I'm on a good path rn😅 and thanks again for the tips!
@ Wow that sounds quite difficult. Makes us better vocalists tho! Thanks for sharing!🙏🙏
@@GarrettCampbell 🙏🙏
I started singing in high school. I was good, but not great. Then I stopped when I was in college. Lost my voice completely just from not using it. When I finally got back into it I sounded awful and after I practiced a lot, I sounded completely different. I think it’s just that when I was younger, I put way more of a growl in my voice and I’d shriek higher notes. I didn’t think about wearing my voice out and I’d just scream until I could barely talk. I really try to avoid doing that now.
@@thezombiequeen1908 Yes, with age comes great wisdom and experience. 💯
Very important video!
If you had swelling in your vocal cords from overuse, that could have been Reinke's edema. Your speaking voice sounds very good now! What kind of therapy or rehab did you do to get your voice back? What kinds of exercises worked? I have some Reinke's edema and something else that they haven't been able to diagnose yet, but I have an appointment with an ENT in four weeks. I sent you an email about this just now! I go into some more depth there.
Hey Russell! So awesome to hear from you by email! Yes, I read the whole thing and will get back to you asap, but what I will say now is that learning when to speak less or less loudly has made a BIG difference for me. I have two jobs, one of which where I teach 11 year-olds, which gets very noisy. Learning to not speak as much, and sing more relaxed and less forced when I DO sing has been the best therapy for me. Also, going to a pro vocal coach-- who understands your genre!!!-- is great.
Cheers man! Talk soon.
@@GarrettCampbell Well, thank you for making this video and being nice enough to offer your email! I appreciate these tips and look forward to your email whenever is convenient for you.
I lost my ability to scream years ago but somehow gained Suffo gutturals after damaging my vocal chords
From what I learned, if they get damaged, I just stop for a week and am usually fine.
It's always good to rest your voice, so good job! Keep up the good work!
Classical training, people! If you're able to work with a voice teacher who has a background in vocal pedagogy and sings in a classical opera setting such as Italian Bel Canto, I cannot recommend it enough. It's not about learning techniques to "be an opera singer", it's about understanding the fundamental mechanics of how the voice itself works, and how to minimise the damage done to it. Highly transferable principles to whichever genre you wish to sing in, and you're more likely to maintain a full voice into your later years. Bear in mind that as far as the physical instrument itself goes, an average male singer's peak years should be in their 40s. Whenever you hear people say a singer sounded better in their "prime" and they're referring to their 20s, that's just detached from the reality of how the voice functions. But it's what a generation of consumers have come to expect, owing to a lack of expertise on the part of people peddling advice.
@@DrakodanSRL Good thoughts. Classical training almost always trumps school of hard knocks 💪
Yup. 30 here and my range is gone. Went from having an amazing wide ranged voice and now, I am pretty limited.
@@slasherdope8065 Ooof. I am genuinely sorry, friend. Please stay positive and be kind to yourself💔🎙️🙏
I didn’t have a vocal range in the first place dawg and my voice is already damaged due to other things
@@skreekx7300 Eeeeesh sorry to hear that man. What’s contributing, if I might ask?
Too summirize some good points. Its not supposed too feel hard. Work on the basics if you start being sloppy then youre voice will pay. Drink water!!! And take small breaks even if you dont feel you need it.
I took a g4 no clue if thats impressive for a dude but that made it feel like my vocalchords klickt into place in a good way. And afterwards you almost dont want to talk because youre singing teknik is so much better for your voice than you speaking voice. I mostly sing classical adjesent stuff and some Mongolian throat singing. Kind of fun harmenising with weird humming home appliances.
Great thoughts and recap!
You are better in power metal bro ❤ \m/
@@yasinyazdanvocal Thank you, brother!🙏
I thought having a vocal coach and learning proper technique was enough. Ive seen a video were Will Ramos from Lorna shore explains how he can do all the harsh vocals without hurting himself, all beacuse of a good tecnique.
❤❤❤
I've been practicing harsh vocals pretty much daily for about 4 years now, basically self taught other than a few videos from creators that a lot of other people have mentioned here (justin bonitz, andy cizek, mark from kardashev, etc.) to get me going. I've never lost my voice and i can speak and sing cleans just fine after a session, but sometimes my voice definitely feels _tired_. Not really painful, but tired, almost like i just ran really hard or something. Should i be worried? It's never really bothered me before but reading some of these comments has me a bit nervous
@@yellowsaurus4895 So glad you asked!! Don’t be “worried,” but take warning that if you PUSH your voice when it’s tired, you increase risk of injury. I sang so many times when my voice was already tired from singing the day before or whatever, and slowly the freshness of voice after a night didn’t come back as much.
Bottom line: If you CONSISTENTLY push your voice when it’s already tired, you WILL suffer vocal inflammation and damage in the long run. Rest up as much as humanly possible!
The fact that you can do all that shows you have some killer technique, so be grateful for that! Be careful with your instrument and have fun!😊👍🙏
What is damaged exactly in your vocal cords? No nodules, no polyps, so what is changed forever in your throat?
Nothing is permanently changed--- if I continue to rest my voice and not overuse it. The kicker is if I strain it, it will get worse and worse and is hard to reverse.
Good question! Hope that helps... XD
Takes me 30 minutes to warm up
That's good! Make sure you warm down too :)
Always Always Always do warm ups first
Don't sing if sick. And if there is discomfort. Stop.
@@cyberspark4206 YES!!!!!!💯💪🫡
I lost my range to reflux, not due to screaming
@@ИапГоревич Oof, sorry to hear that. How’s recovery?
@GarrettCampbell Nothing helps. I lost my head voice completely
Axl Rose's case is very didactic.
Nice video.
@@EncoreASMR Thanks!
I'd like to see what homemade remedies for recovery for those of us who've already lost it and are still recovering 😅
@@popcorn_showers Me too! :) Let me know if you find anything!
If you've got overuse issues remedies will help much except water, there is singers/throat tea but its not like it touches the vocal chords. I highly recommend looking for speech therapy exercises, especially the ones focusing on the voice. They are a game changer. Helps get my voice back faster after a nasty cold especially when I've been coughing and feel the damage from that! But in general you can't go wrong with it to help for recovery as its focused on that!
@@GarrettCampbell well you're the UA-camr here
Git cooking😂
@ 🫡🙏
Incorrect technique daily for like 10-12 years never did anything to me, just a bit tired every now and then.
Now 2-3 years with proper technique daily and can scream along to a playlist 12 hours a day without any issues ever.
@@GoddaryuTUBE Duuuuude that’s so awesome!! Did you have vocal coaching to get there?
@@GarrettCampbell Nothing official, living in a small rural town in Australia means I don't have access to anyone in person so it's 95% been learning off people online and then getting the singer of my mates band to confirm if I was doing it right one time when they came and did a local show haha
@@GoddaryuTUBE Hey, sometimes the best coaches are not teachers, they’re the ones doing it!👍
I get hoarse after talking for 30 mins in a quiet room to one person. Is it over for me?
Nope! You can still be mindful and take care of your voice. I reccomend talking at a volume at which your voice can operate at minimal effort. Take care! :)
but how do you reconcile this with e.g. will ramos? i'm sure you've seen the video that went viral where his throat etc was checked by doctors and he was super healthy, in fact his vocal health was above average. no damage at all. another great example is landon tewers, has been screaming for ages and still has an amazing singing voice.
@@jensassmann Great question! My screams are not exactly the same as Will’s, so he may do something that I don’t that makes him able to do it comfortably and loudly. Personally, I’m still trying to get my screams that “big” while staying relaxed. I wonder if it has to do with speaking volume as well…
I transfused Hansi Kürsch, Rob Halford and Pavarotti into my throat
(waiting for my voice to start beeing majestic)
@@KakashiHatake-sg8ym Can I get one too? 😂😂
@@KakashiHatake-sg8ym You’ll get there!😅👍👍
What issues would someone who whisper sings might have? Is it similar to the issues a scream singer would have?
I sing in a specific range that isn't super common for my specific voice type: my voice type naturally gravitates to Eb Locrian. Which doesn't really lend itself to scream singing, as the sound is already extremely dissonant and jarring.
Interesting... wow! You have a quite unique voice, which is fantastic! Just be careful to not push too much air through your windpipe when whispering, as it can dry out your voice and cause issues. Good luck! :)
The best screams are the ones that sound voice destroying, unfortunately. If it sounds like playing it safe then it sounds boring. There are singers who've managed to only improve their singing ranges despite decades of vocal abuse (Kyo of Dir en grey, Sukekiyo, and Petit Brabancon being probably the best example), though. I say go hard or go home when it comes to this stuff.
@@acherontiaatropos6048 You said it. Nowadays people are looking for something crazy disturbing and that’s the (vocal health wise) issue.
Yeah, I tried to replicate dio, practicing pushing to much, I backed off.
@@rickgrebenikpuggles56 Glad you backed off! :)👍
@GarrettCampbell I'm fine now
@ That’s good!
@@GarrettCampbell can you replicate my hi notes? I have 10 grand challenge on it, it's on my shorts on my channel
@@rickgrebenikpuggles56 I definitely could back when I was starting, but well see now... loll
Me, who's into doom metal:
@@null40404 Lol I feel ya😅
i feel like you need corey taylors neck to do harsh vocals
@@demixtacticz Lolllll prolly do😂😂
Basically dont pull a Kurt Cobain
@@skilledsquid965 Literally!!! 100%!
Alex Terrible: weakness disgust me
Lol He's a legend XD
You aren't doing ot right
I've never heard of an artist having a problem unless they're a performer.. If the song is already recorded I don't understand why we're playing it again in front of people when the artist could be putting effort towards making something new. Imagine if the Mona Lisa was painted over and over again five nights a week in every city possible.
@@iodfusj Good point, although if someone painted the Mona Lisa for practice, they would learn a LOT about painting.
Because it's fun to perform in front of people and everyone is vibing. It also shows their *actual* talent, because it's pretty easy to do a ton of takes and nail it once for a recording. Real skill is doing it live consistently without damaging your voice.
Sounds like bad genetics ...Plenty of vocalist with Crazy range that have been an industry for ten/Twenty years
Great technique can always overcome less than extraordinary genetics, whether in gym, vocals, or finances. You got this, bro!
This will be a strange and random question. Do you believe in God? Edit: Holy balls, I just looked at your channel. I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this now haha.
@@lobbyrobby Yes I most definitely do! Jesus is my life, best friend, and savior. He is my purpose in life. Here’s to 2025, friend!🎆😁🙏✝️