Innovative Power Solutions: How Our Hybrid System Saves Money in the Workshop
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
- Originally Posted 2022-01-11
In this video, we explore a cost-effective and efficient solution to power up our workshop without breaking the bank! Initially faced with a $20,000 grid connection fee, we turned to a diesel-powered Lincoln welder, which proved costly at $80 per day in fuel.
We decided to innovate and found a brilliant workaround: a hybrid power system. Join us as we walk you through our workshop, powered by two 53-foot trailers and our custom-designed hybrid system. We brought in light tower trailers, installed a wood stove, and set up an ingenious hybrid power system designed by Eric, my business partner.
Eric explains how our system, using a generator, a huge 10 kWh battery bank, and a 3 kW inverter, effectively powers the entire shop. By running the generator for just half an hour a day, we charge up the battery bank, saving us $80 a day in fuel costs and reducing wear on the welder.
The total investment? Just $2,200, paying for itself in a month! Dive in to see how embracing innovation can lead to practical and economical solutions in unexpected places. 💡🔌
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#Workshop #HybridPower #DIY #CostSaving #Innovation
Love how you continue to bust myths about electric and hybrid electric vehicles! Fun to watch your progress!
With a little design looks like you guys can make tiny homes while you are at it.
Or full function mobile shops
No wonder you actually save a ton. Cos that inverter feeds if the battery with a variable load while the generator pushes optimal load to change ge it back up. Cool.
It's the same idea as their truck
Hah thats awesome.
I run a few solar panels to a small battery bank in my shed to power lights and the basic battery tender for my yard tractor. Works great!
almost sounds like you should put one of those solar towers on top of the shop. then you don't even have to pay for diesel.
I think you would need a whole lot of panels to replace the diesel completely, and that would cost a lot more. However a few panels while keeping the diesel might be the best option. I'm not a pro btw, just guessing.
@@anonymouse527I do something similar with the caravan that I live in on site with my earthmoving business. It has a couple of small panels on the roof and they keep the 12V, 120AH van battery charged to 100% all the time in summer - but come winter they just can't keep up. I need about four times as many panels - and I'm not in nearly as high a latitude as they are. No snow either.
So I'm guessing that they would need a *lot* of panels to do the job - and still want the backup generator as well for days when it's cloudy/raining/snow etc. I have a little petrol generator to top off the house battery in mid winter.
The problem with that right now is that it's winter and he's likely not getting more than 1-2hr of good sun exposure a day and that's if his panels are snow free.
@@langdons2848I was thinking of doing that with my camper. Glad to hear it's possible! My small air conditioner consumes 600W tops, so with a couple 200-300W panels and a 120AH battery I think I could run it all day, or at least when the sun is out. But also would get a generator just in case.
@@anonymouse527 that sounds like a good plan. I have to have shore power to run my old AC unit - it's a power hog!
Batteries and panels are cheap though, so I'm in the process of building up a service trailer that has eight big 48V panels and 1000AH of storage for when I'm out in the bush for a week at a time.
Your videos of the yard usually show a few of the solar trailers hanging around. Maybe utilize their power while waiting to ship?
And put a few panels on top of your shop?
Is the Lincoln welder liquid cooled? Use the heat for space heat. If not, make a heat exchanger for the exhaust and use that .
Ok i didn't quite catch the part about only running the generator 1/2 hour a day.
Do you use it for welding,at least?
That battery system doesn't even need to be charged with a generator. Depending on site conditions solar, wind, or micro hydro would do the job just as well.
Yes, they likely can get a lot of their power from solar. The hills make wind less likely. They could put panels up in the roof.
People over estimate solar and wind production. I'm off grid 4.6kw array with 22kwh lifepo battery bank..base load on the system is only 600w..works great in summer but in the winter the generator runs 5hrs every other day to keep batteries up..solar drops way off in the winter, due to snow and cloud...no way could they run a shop with solar trailers...unless they lined 10-15of them up...and that would probably costs 200k to do.
@bwillan
It'd seem so.
With the batteries being replenished in 30 minutes per day of run time, the shop is only consuming about 1.5 kWH per day.
Basically roughly the energy of burning three 60W lamps for 8 hours.
Sounds great to have in a house for when the power goes out so that you don’t have to run the generator all day.
AWESOME!
Hybrid systems make much more sense
So watching "Lumber Capital Log Yard" these guys have a Woodmizer band saw which is for the most part stationary but is driven by a small gas engine (probably 20 Hp). The duty cycle of this outfit is - making a cut in one direction then no load during return and repositioning for another cut. What do you think they could save by using an electric motor in place of the gas engine, a bank of batteries and a small generator (diesel) or even some solar panels. It would be a neat project especially since there are attractive females that operate this band saw!! 😇
Commenting on the video for the algorithm
Love your diesel EV. But I have one question its the same question I have for any off road EV. Given it is intended to work in a place where a forest fire would be shall we say undesirable. What is your plan for fire mitigation on the battery pack? It seems to me that a battery fire will be catastrophic, given a fire extinguisher or a brush fire pump will be totally useless.
What about the battery pack makes for a concern about fire?
@@mlindholm Google Tesla burning underwater. Or jeep 4xe explosion.
When a lithium battery pack experiences thermal runaway and ignites. They produce combustible toxic gasses. You can't extinguish a lithium battery fire with just water. The fire burns hot enough to melt steel and burn aluminum.
The only reliable way I know of to extinguish a lithium battery pack after it ignites. Is to use brine water that is cooled below the freezing point of fresh water. You flood the battery/car with it. It removes the heat and to slow/stop the chemical reaction.
Chemical and CO2 fire extinguishers are useless against a battery in thermal runaway.
Note I didn't say what type of lithium battery. Because they all can experience thermal runaway and they all burn. This is a problem with batteries in any EV. Diesel burns and gasoline explodes. But neither provides it's own fuel, oxygen and heat. Along with toxic gasses.
EV batteries are most dangerous when fully charged or while under high discharge or charge rates.
@@EthosAtheosMost data points to make gasoline vehicle fires than EVs, adjusted for quantities of each on the road. EV fire risk is much overblown. First responders and tow/storage yards do need some new training and policies but they aren't more frequent than existing vehicle fires.
Plus stationary batteries get some benefits in that storage density isn't as critical so the packs aren't quite as energetic, and it's easier to reduce risk with simple precautions like block or cement structures.
And then... I'm not 100% sure but I think that might be a lead acid pack (like I said, stationary applications are more space and mass forgiving) which makes the risk even less.
@@saiboogu I'm not concerned about frequency. I'm concerned about the fact that in the fire triangle(fuel, O2, heat); A lithium battery provides all 3. Gas/Diesel do not and can be extinguished with a simple fire extinguisher in many cases. Car fires these days are rare across all types. The fact that it doesn't happen often isn't the point.
If you drive in areas where the fire department would take hours to get to you. Then you should be carrying everything you need to deal with a fire. Most ICE engine fires can be handled with just a hand held extinguisher. If you get to it quickly. This isn't true of a lithium battery fire. Lithium batteries can not be extinguished by anything, the vehicle can carry with it.
Fire mitigation has to be built into the battery box and the vehicle. The best case scenario would be to drop the battery pack and drive the vehicle to a safe distance and deal with secondary fire. But I'm not sure that is practical. Second best might be a battery box that can contain a fire. But lithium battery fires easily burn at temperatures that melt almost all metals.
As for static home battery packs. Flooded lead acid batteries are a fire hazard as they off gas hydrogen. They are never used these days in professional installs. Sealed lead acid batteries are heavy, bulky and have short service lives. Lithium is rapidly replacing them, mostly because of service life vs upfront costs.
The use of a battery bank inside a conex box is the perfect application. As a conex box is designed not to allow the spread of fire. They have to be due to the regulations of being at sea. But in your basement they are a serious risk and we shouldn't be putting battery banks in homes or businesses. They should be in fire resistant out buildings.
We know the risks but regulation is lacking. Because the electrification crowd wants to stick it's collective head in the sand. I'm not against EVs or batteries. I am against forest fires and dead firefighters in structure fires.
@@EthosAtheoswhy, if this is a known and seemingly unsolved problem for all lithium batteries, do you put the need for solution upon this company?
This would be a great system for a home standby generator. I’ve actually been thinking about doing a system like this. It’s crazy stupid what electricity costs from a generator vs The power company.
I'm not so sure about the wisdom of a standby generator at home unless your utility is total trash. Having one, sure, but having it on standby here at least, the fuel would go bad before you ever used it
@@fang_xianfu in that case I’m not sure if an investment like that would make sense. Some locations get hit with storms and bad weather more often than other places and lose power often. We keep a lot of fuel on hand but run it through vehicles before it goes bad. If stored correctly diesel can easily last for years. Gasoline doesn’t store very well even with additive but propane doesn’t go bad. Or just go get fuel if a storm is coming or have fuel on hand during storm season.
Still not a fan of diesel for long-term fuel storage. Why not use propane? You lose a few kw but gain so much shelf life for your fuel
What inverter are you using?
Lead acid deep cycle batteries or a larger Redox Chemical Flow battery might be an option for longevity.
Add in a solar array and a wind turbine to add renewable feed when available and bob's your uncle.
beats spending between 100 - 200K of overhead lines and poles or trenching from the nearest grid pole to your shop.
Just stay away from the Lithium ion batteries in enclosed areas particularly the cheaper Chinesium ones.
LG Chem have a major safety recall here in Aus due to thermal runaway in the solar backup batteries here and 5 houses have caught fire due to faulty BMS as the house batteries have Zero thermal management.
I've seen enough to say i would like to work for you, if you're hiring, i've got cdl up to 44 tons and i can actually fabricate basic things. That said, sadly, i live in italy sooo..
It would be worth relocating to work with these guys.
I love your videos and what you are accomplishing, but I think this video is missleading. I've looked around a lot but I have yet to find a source of 10KWh of battery storage and a 3 KWh inverter for $2,200 Canadian- or even American. Could you share your supplier?
We need a video Brad's outhouse
It is amazing what common sense can do. Unfortunately it's not that common...
Have you thought about using mechanical batteries for applications like that where you have the space? I know they're somewhat less efficient but they are far more cost effective and can be made out of reusable materials
With what I know about mechanical batteries they just wear out a lot faster. So for a situation like this where they're going to be cycled frequently, I think deep cycle lead acid batteries, which is what they appear to be using are probably the most cost effective long-term solution
@@the_undead a flywheel battery which would be my choice for said battery will last up to 30 years. That's about 3 times the lifespan of most chemical batteries. There are many aspects of said batteries I'm not familiar with but lifespan and efficiency I am. They aren't exceptionally efficient which would lead to slightly higher fuel costs but a much lower initial build cost.
@@davidwilburn9809 seeing is the whole point of this system is long-term cost, savings and efficiency. I highly doubt a flywheel would be ideal with what you just said.
@@the_undeadthe efficiency isn't that much less and when you account for the 2200 initial cost and 1000 cost every 3-10 years for battery replacement vs the probably 6-800 for a flywheel and motor the tradeoff is negligible. But this discussion is mostly pointless we are both laypeople why don't we let the engineers speak on whether it has merit
@@davidwilburn9809This is a bit of a semi educated hunch but I think you're about an order of magnitude off for the cost of a flywheel setup that can provide as many watt hours as they have in the battery pack.
A flywheel on a motor won't spin very long. You need a vacuum chamber to minimize drag. Gig tech bearings to reduce friction. Super high RPM, which makes the flywheel a very critical high tolerance item, and the vacuum housing needs to be reinforced to contain the shrapnel if it lets go. Flywheel energy storage is more suitable for short cycles while generators start up, or really large scale storage where economies of scale make the expense worthwhile.
Where can you get 53's for 500$? Seriously; someone send me the link.
have you guys done any fooling around with electrolysors to take excess solar energy and turn it into hydrogen for later reconverting back into electricity.
Living in a salt state makes me sad i can’t convince my company to invest in a stakebed truck from you guys
Absolutely!
You first need to calculate your usage and then from there can work backwards to determine the size of the system you need to build and components you need
A steam generator on the wood stove
I'm assuming you forgot to mention that you have solar panels connected to the inverter also. Otherwise, how would this change the cost of diesel fuel? I watched the video twice. What am I missing?
You're missing the part where the generator used to run full-time every day. It powered the equipment that was plugged in but most of it's output was wasted as there was no storage for it. Now they run the generator only to charge the batteries where all of its output is captured and stored. Once the batteries are charged, the generator shuts off until the batteries get low enough to need a fresh recharge. The difference is the amount of energy being wasted vs used.
@@Dr_Nick_ exactly, a generator runs non stop because it provides consistent power despite it not always being used, take for example lights at night compared to the day in which you wouldn't need them.
Could this be done on a house ? Or a larger shop running air compressors welders?
yeah, just have to size it correctly. They even sell ready made stuff you just plug and play but it cost a bit more. Ecoflow makes some great products for that
This could absolutely be done on a house, eco flow sells a complete solution for this. The intent is more for RVs and stuff, but you could absolutely use it as backup power for a house. It allows up to 3,000 watts of solar panel input (I don't know if they're sold separately) or 2000 watts of solar panel input and then a much larger amount of watts that I forget from an inverter (in this case a generator)
I forget exactly what it's called but you could absolutely use it for this. Or you could do a DIY solution with dramatically more input and battery capacity because the eco flow solution only has a limited amount of battery although how much I don't know
Thanks guys
I need a wooden furnace in my Tesla. I want more mileage and toasty feet.
EV should put a diesel water heater instead of a heat pump. Cheaper and will lose far less range in the winter
@@JD-yx7be You are a bit behind the times. This was done in the Pug/Citroen 106 electric 20 years ago. New EV's with their 100kw + batteries, the range loss to a heat pump based heating system is insignificant (1/2% or less).
@@idrisddraig2 maybe in mild cold weather like 40F but under 20F i doubt it. But i am open to look into it
Per the video's numbers, I wonder how they're jamming $80 of fuel through a pipsqueak generator that is only producing 1.5kWH per day? Be surprising if it could burn 2 liters per hour.
its Lincoln 300d a 300 amp welding machine, but has like 3kw of A/C aux power,and thats what they are charging with, i think they use it (instead of like a light plant) because they, already have it and need welding power sometimes
@theshadetreewelder5043 I understand that. To recap, the generator is said to run 30 minutes to top-off the batteries for a day's usage. That would be 1.5 kWH of generator output, maximum. Not sure if a "day" is 8, 10, 12, 24 hours? Forgetting efficiency losses for now, it indicates that the shop must consume at most just 1.5 kWH on such a day. Roughly equivalent to three 60W bulbs burning for 8 hours. Yes, $80 would be a crazy figure for that.
Im sorry, you bought 10KWH of battery for 1 thousand dollars?
Deep cycle lead acid , sounds about right (in CDN$)
So $2,200 for a 10kwh system? Isn’t a Tesla power wall the same capacity but $10k?
yeah, you have to pay the tesla brand tax.
Out of curiosity, what did the inverter and battery bank cost compared to the welder and diesel?.
Even Chinese lithium batteries are spendy.
What will be around in 10, 20, 30 years, your welder or the batteries under the bench.
That's why your idea for a diesel/electric truck is better than an electric only truck.
DavidPos has a straightforward DIY build, that's basically just hooking 2 x 24v LFPo banks to a BMS. It was something like $1800 for 10+kw. Significantly less expensive than lead-acid, with a greater DOD and much longer life of service, at higher efficiency (99 vs 80).
@@my_channel_44 That's a really good channel, availability of some of that stuff is still really spotty if you're not in the US.
Considering how tiny the capacity of that setup is, it did not cost alot and the ROI would be quite fast. Chinese Lithium batteries are only spendy when you want massive capacity like 40kwh and beyond.
LiFePO4 Batteries should be perfectly fine for 15 to 20 Years. This does not mean maost of the capacity has degraded, at like 17 years you starting have peak power output problems and heavy resistance. But yeah beyond 20 years is currently the major problem. Maybe you should look up basic information before spamming erroneous assertions.
@@my_channel_44
Many thanks for your helpful reply and the heads-up about DavidPos. 👍🏻
Umm, so I had the same idea, but the welder I picked up, is a super old Big 20. I'm told the 120v can barely power a big grinder.... but my plan was to plug the leads into a large solar charge controller anyhow. Not much info out there, but what I have found, more or less, says I'll be fine.
Ecoflow makes a great power station that has built in solar controller. They have a 2400watt, 3600watt, 7200watt output versions. It will cost more than a diy system but is also portable
@@JD-yx7be portable is important for me, I mainly choose the welder because of 500$ power bills from all the 1/4" rods I burn.