How do faith and reason work together?
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
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#Theology #God #Apologetics
I'm working on the relationship between faith and reason. Frank Turek is amazing. I find it the best answer that could have been given in 2 minutes. God bless you, man!
"....but blessed are those who have not seen and believe."
@TwwwJ JwwwT Amen 🙂
Not entirely correct quite ("because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed"), but it doesn't contradict what Frank has said.
@@sgorgardr227 That's the correct interpretation - it is also more contextual than the original comment.
@@AmiiboDoctor Yeas i agree, i thought so too.
This verse does not suggest blind faith. It is simply saying that those who believe and do not see are blessed. See who? Jesus. We have not seen Jesus but we still believe in Him, bc of blind faith? No bc of the eyewitnesses testimonies and evidence that we have for Him.
God bless Frank Turek and his channel abundantly in Christ power I pray, Amen! 🕊️
Lovin’ the turquoise frank!
Hebrews 11: 1 KJV Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen
This does not suggest blind faith. Another version says faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. So what is the connection between faith and not seen? Is it evidence? Is it saying that faith is the assurance of things hoped for, WHEN evidence is not seen? No I believe it is the opposite actually. Read chapter 10 for context where the writer talks about the suffering that Christians may go through.
But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. - ch10
So the writer here encourages us to trust God and not to fall away when God appears to be absent. So what is verse 1 in ch11 saying? It is continuing and on with ch10 and saying that we can trust in God even when He appears to be absent, why? On what basis can we trust God? On the basis of what He has done iin the past. The entire ch11 talks about people who had faith and then God fulfilled His promise to them. The writer is giving us an evidencial case for why we can trust God. Do u remember what God always told the children of Israel in when they complained that God wasn't there? He always said remember what I have done for u? Remember that I brought u out of the land of Egypt and split the red sea? So we can trust God even when He appears to be absent on the basis of what He has already done.
Faith is the excuse people give for believing something when they don't have evidence.
@@itsJPhere That is not actually accurate. I have faith in God bc of the evidence not in spite of it. U have faith as well. U exercise the exact same faith I have when u get in your car and trust it not to blow up. The same faith a pilot has in his plane when he flies it. Surely this is not blind faith. He knows he can trust his plane bc he has tested it. In the same way any reasonable Christian believes in God bc of the evidence.
@@itsJPhere I like how Nick answered to you but I would like to add that faitj is also supernatural. I hate that word but I'll use it now cause it is a consept that a created human mind can comperend.
The faith a Christian has is not from himself, it is a supernatural reality that comes from God through Jesus. It is the faith of the Son of God himself.
Ubtil you are born again from above, until you are born again by the spiritual word of God, until you are born again from the Spirit of God you only have your natural senses (sight, hearing, feeling etc.).
Wheb you are born again God himself comes to live inside you it's not a battle of viewpoints or human reasoning or imaginations of people, it's the concrete reality of God.
Now I can by no means make you believe this but I'm telling you tjis because it's the truth and I have firsthand experience of it.
In fact let tell you how it happened to me. I was an agnostic atheist all the way right until God saved me.
I had come to think that it was reasonable to believe that satan and God existed and I wanted to be saved.
I downloaded instruction on how to be born again and went on my knees and read from it the gospel. I prayed a sinners prayer which was included in the instructions.
After that I didn't feel anything had changed and I was on my knees thinking "was this it, am I saved now? I would want to believe but I don't think I can believe"
I read the paper forward and it read "If you want to believe but can't believe you can still pray 'Lord Jesus I want to believe but I can't, please give me your faith as a gift'"
In a blink of an eyes I was born again and God revealed himself to me and made instantly to me these four things more sure than anything I had ever known about anything 1. God is 2. Jesus is his Son and through him I have now this salvation 3. I have now the Holy Spirit inside of me and 4. The bible is the truth
I was so amazed that I started laughing cause my brain vould not catch up and understand how it could be possible that Christianity had the truh and one true God all along. But there I was before the living God and he inside on me.
After few months I looked at the paper again and you know what? It didn't read that part "If you don't know how to believe etc." at all. It wasn't there, God made a miracle of putting it there just for me and he took it out after.
That's the God I serve and since then it has been like this all the time - I get to meet him and he does wonderful miracles.
So you or anyone else would a though time of convincing me he isn't who he says he is, because I see him with senses that are not of this world, I see him through himself.
@@notski777notski3 How did you verify that you're not delusional or psychotic?
Amen
So good!
He's a smart man and great speaker
Thanks!
Excellent explanation!
Excelente!
SUPER STATED by frank !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BRILLIANT !!!!
Amen that was great 💯💯
Romans 8:10- 11
And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
i have been trying so hard to get some of my christian coworkers to look into apologetics and the way I would describe it just wouldnt reach them. They believe in blind faith and that we should trust just because. This video seems to explain much better than I ever could, hopefully this one helps.
W34KN35S
This video explains nothing.
Frank is likening a chair or a plane to Jesus.
There is no evidence of jesus.
Your friends are at least honest in that they admit that they believe on faith.
You can use CS Lewis' analogy.
Suppose I put a penny in a drawer. By reason I can be certain that I would find the same penny tomorrow, according to the laws of physics and math. That's good reason.
But one must also trust that the drawer will not be tampered with. That's called faith
Lewis was brilliant. Like Eustace Mullins he had much wisdom to offer.
@I follow Reality Do you have a better analogy?
Ferz N
Yes I do. You buy a lottery ticket ran by the state you happen to live in.
You decide on faith that lottery ticket is going to win $100 million and you plan the rest of your life on it. Assuming you can cash it in when you retire, you now live your life like you KNOW you are due millions when you retire so there’s no need to plan for the future.
That’s about as good as I can do on short notice.
@I follow Reality By the way, what IS the definition of faith, according to you?
I find that a lot of atheists tend to misinterprete a lot of things when it comes to Christians
Samuel Hunter
Religious faith is 100% Belief in something with no evidence and a stubborn refusal to consider you might be mistaken.
But feel free to demonstrate how I’m wrong.
Exactly
There’s a reason for our faith. Jesus’ life death and resurrection are a matter of recorded history. People throughout history have reported encounters with God. To deny God’s existence is to deny recorded history. To accept Darwinism/ evolution is to accept hypothetical assumptions.
People have written down that they've seen bigfoot, fairys and aliens. Are all those recorded history?
@@EddySaints Bigfoot etc = hypothetical assumptions... Jesus' life death and resurrection = events that can be investigated if true or not.
You have committed the informal fallacy of a false analogy.
Listen more, talk less.
@Eddy E each claim must be investigated individually. If aliens or Bigfoot don’t exist it doesn’t negate Christ’s existence.
The resurrection is not a part of history.
@@goor1322 please tell me, without the bible...how we investigate the supernatural claims of the resurrection.
This is a very good explanation of faith and reason.
Atheism has a blind faith and Christianity has a reasonable faith. That's the biggest difference.
@doug nut 😂😂😂no evidence for God.
doug nut When you wrote this comment you assumed I exist and I, as a human being, reason according to the same laws of logic as you do. Give me reasons for your faith. Why do you believe every human being reasons according to the same laws of logic as you do? You said "stop lying". Give me reasons for your expectation that I am supposed to differentiate between truth and lie. Thanks!
doug nut I appreciate your honesty. Maybe you are not far from the kingdom of God. God bless you!
@doug nut, I would say that you are putting your faith in there not being someone who will make sure that justice is carried out. If we approach life with the attitude that there is nothing beyond death then, ultimately, the bad things we do are okay, as long as someone doesn't catch us before we die. But if there is a judgement after we die then there is no escape. Your faith is that that you will escape punishment for many of the bad things you have done, not because someone took the punishment in your place but because there is no one to carry out justice in the end.
@doug nut, you really believe that? I thought you said you didn't have faith.
I need to step in and correct Frank here because the half brother of Jesus who's name was James is NOT the author of the book of James.
The author of the book of James was the apostle James who was the brother of the apostle John.
If you have reasoned faith, then you've just got it working. Faith is reasonable, because that is how you get to faith, to chose God, it's intellectual input also. But not only, that is not enough objectively, even in our daily life and in the reason itself.
Something is believable when its demonstrable.
@@theespionageact5249 Another one) This is a DIECT opposition of "believeable")) If you see it, you don't need to believe it. Oh gosh.
Do you understand that you believe that your mother gave birth to you, not that you have DNA test, wich can also be a trick, even if you trust such method of determening wheither you are actually her son or not.
At least there are REASONS to believe, they can be domostrable and appoit to faith or decision to trust. And what has to be denmonstraded about Biblical claims? What needs to be demonstradet even, it's faith and trust in God, demonstration of what you need to have to start trusting in God? You or believe Him or not.
Experience either reinforces faith or proves it faulty. If you put out a stocking for Santa and it doesn't get filled then you are likely not to do it again. If you pray according to God's will and a miracle occurs then you are more inclined to believe that it will happen again.
There was a study about prayer effectiveness...
Guess what happened
gloryboundkev faith can’t be solely based on experience. Because your experience changes. It has to come from facts, facts in the Bible don’t change!
@@mikeramos91 facts in the bible DO change. A lot.
colby j like what? Don’t mix up miracles & facts
@@mikeramos91 I will never mix those up. Ever.
First 🤣🤣🤣
John 1:14 says "the Logos became flesh and dwelt among us." Logos is where we get the word "logic" (aka "reason"). So we can safely say that Jesus was the most reasonable or logical person to have ever lived.
The only thing I disagree with in Frank's explanation comes at 0:14 in the video, "faith is trusting in what you have good reason to be is true". "Faith" in the religious sense is the act of believing without valid evidence that it is true.
You don't know what you're talking about. There is ample evidence that Christianity and the Bible are true.
@James Griffin What evidence are you talking about?
@@MrJimMajor There is far too much to list in this format. A short list would be the infallibility of the Bible, it has never been proven wrong in a single detail it records. The Historical evidence that Jesus did exist. The eye witness accounts of his resurrection, and the fact that no evidence from the time disputes it, no one produced a body,and if the Jews could have discredited it, they would have readily done so.
@James Griffin The Bible is of course fallible. If it isn't, you must provide evidence for it just like I would have to provide evidence if I proclaimed I threw a rock to the moon. The Old Testament has been shown to be wrong in countless claims. Eyewitness accounts of Jesus do not exist. There are secondhand accounts of Jesus alive after the crucifixion but then again, there are countless _firsthand_ accounts of UFOs and Sasquatch.
@@MrJimMajor The Old Testament has never been found to be wrong. The eye witness accounts of Jesus's life, death, and resurrection are recorded by Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, James. Jude, Peter, and Paul. Other secular sources also exist, though not perhaps eye witnesses, they are credible historical sources.
If you define faith as believing without evidence (ir the usual religious definition of faith 'he that believes but has not seen' etc) then such faith has nothing to do with reason. Believing without seeing, believing without evidence can lead to believe anything at all, which is why there are so many religions.
"Because God will not force you to heaven against your will"
James 2: 19 and 20 says "thou believest that there is one God ; thou doest well : the devils also believe ,and tremble .
But wilt thou know,O vain man ,that faith without works is dead ?"
Faith alone is a gift from God.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
So atheist are lacking both!✌
Jasond Peralta folks ask me where's the evidence for my faith. I say that as an atheist I had none and wanted less. That I have it is it's own evidence.
@@pdxnikki1 when you mean faith,what you mean?
The verse you are quoting doesnt say faith is the gift. Salvation is the gift.
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6:23 KJV
@@laserfalcon as the scriptures says faith is a gift from God. if you agree then nothing complicated,but feel free to explain why faith is not a gift.
Yes salvation is a free gift that's correct.
😊✌
@@jasond4484 The Ephesians verse you quoted is used by many Calvinists to show faith is the gift but it isnt what the verse says. The verse doesnt say faith is the gift. The gift is eternal life
Obviously faith and reason are incompatable! Faith is just the excuse used to justify belief in the existence of mythological deities.
What good reason do you have to believe that there is a god?
When you drop a book, you have faith that it will hit the ground because you have knowledge of gravity.
_How do faith and reason work together?_ they do not !
cheers
Prove your claim
@@toarrestsomeoneistoviolate2643 faith is almost the opposite of reason. what do you not understand?
@@MGoudsmits False. Do you know what an antonym is? It's the *literal opposite* of a synonym. I know these are big words for you but bear with me; some dictionaries contain a list of antonyms, which is a word's opposite, and if you look up the words "faith" and "reason" neither of those 2 words is listed as an antonym of the other. Nice try Shlomo but you failed to prove your claim. Next.
There is no way not to comment here; Faith is central to Christianity, it is the point at which the rubber meets the road. A person can understand in a purely intellectual sense that God and Yeshua are a reality, but that will only ever amount to concept, never actualizing, never being a personal experience of either. That person may believe in God perhaps even fervently but never have faith and as such never salvation....every person with faith believes but not every person that believes has faith even if that belief also results in trust....If a person wishes to express trust in a plane and its crew by employing the term faith so be it, but that is all the same not the faith scripture describes and I would ask Frank to revisit the question.... There is, was, always will be, a difference between knowledge and experience....no matter how much we know about God that is just never going to replace knowing Him...... As imaginative beings we can’t resist imparting some of who we are on a god we know about, but don't know. That god no matter how close to scripture is all the same made up.
God was always a concept for me before I encountered Him. That experience has not fully changed the sinner I am, but it has change forever my view of God.....God may be silent or distant or proven by science to be only a delusion, though I personally doubt that could ever be, even if it were however I could never be talked out of what I know personally as fact. Not because I was told, but because I know and that is faith....no one can say I know this plane is going to get me home...therefore it is not faith, if you did (KNOW) it would be....if you could look into the future and see that it was already a reality then no matter the circumstances on that flight even if the plane crashed you would always be sure even as the plane was going down that you would be fine. As all around you people were in panic you would be calm. That’s faith. When God tells you something and you know from His telling you what is to come and act on it as sure as if you had already been there and done it that's faith. Even when what you are about to do is in your mind not possible. That is the moment your faith is tested will you accept what you have determined or what by experience of God He has said. When Abraham was about to take the life of his son his experience did not stay his hand.....that is hardly comparable to getting on a plane.
Frank you have a very shallow view of faith, and that is a problem
For by grace are you saved through faith……..
Check it out Frank
It doesn't.
I'm not happy with this answer. And I have a follow-up question: How do metaphysical aspects of religion and science (reason) work together?
You clearly didn't listen. And science is not reason.
You should look at the work of William Lane Craig. He has spent a great deal of time addressing your question. You might also look at what John Lennox has to say.
@ "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour."
Obiwan Duglobi Truth is consistent throughout on all levels.
@@pdxnikki1 What kind of truth do you mean?
I would take issue with "the demons believe it's true but they don't trust..." No. Demons CANNOT be forgiven regardless of faith or trust.
He didn’t say they could be saved, he was just giving an example. They stopped trusting in God when they disobeyed, resulting in God throwing them out of heaven.
They do believe God is true, but their trust is in themselves. They have a slight bit of faith that they can beat Yashua, but most of them know it’s impossible. They don’t differ from our fallen nature too much, Jesus just gave us a redeemable gift in His death and resurrection! Amen!
May God bless you forever and I pray you have a blessed day!💜🎉
That gets into a deeper question that I don't think the Bible give complete clarity on, but if we assume that the demons will not be saved because they don't have the opportunity to be saved then we can say that their faith for salvation would be a false faith. Them having that kind of faith would be like us putting our faith in good works. But we have no reason to believe they have that kind of faith because they have seen things that we have not. Why would they put their faith in God for something that he hasn't told them that they can trust him for?
@@TimothyFish And this also leads to the question, why should the Bible be clear on this topic? Are you a demon? Am I? So what good does it do for us to know? What good does it do for it to be written? We do know that even if we assume incorrectly and God does indeed have a plan for some of them to be saved WE have no proactive part in it - if we did, it would be in Scripture. There are other questions as well - like what happens to those who never heard the Gospel or what happens to babies who die. Sure, we would LIKE to know but is there value for us to know it? Can a person who never heard the Gospel or an baby ask these questions? No they can't. The only person who can is the person who has heard. What will they do with what they heard? And for those who have heard, two passages come to mind: John 21:20-22 and Gen 18:25. In John Peter questions what will happen to John and Jesus tells him what does it matter to you my plans for him? You follow me, and in Genesis Abraham asks about the Judge of the world doing what is right. So what are we commanded to do? Share the Gospel. Are we supposed to waste time wondering about those who don't hear or are we supposed to spend that time in helping them to hear? Do we waste time wondering about babies or do we do what we can to protect their lives so that they CAN hear when they are older? And for those who don't hear, should we not trust in the righteousness of God? Yeah, we can speculate (provided we don't get all wrapped around the axle and get distracted from our mission to share and live the Gospel) but mostly we have to understand that God has a plan. Maybe I guess right, maybe you do, maybe Frank does, maybe we are all totally wrong. Since God's thoughts and ways are not our thoughts and ways I'm inclined to go with none of us are right and His righteous plan is greater than our imaginings.
@@1smallstep Very insightful! 👏
We believe that Jesus rose from the dead, and we put our trust in him. Simple 🙂
Why do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead? And why do you trust him?
Some Random Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of the living God, about whom the Old Testament prophets were talking about. And then we have the New Testament that records the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. And the reason I believe this is also because I am a born again Christian since 23 years.
@@evangelistkimpatrik just trying to rephrase this to try and make sense of it.
Are you saying that the Bible says Jesus is god, and you believe the Bible because you are a Christian?
Some Random Every born again Christian knows the truth in Jesus Christ and believes he is who he claimed to be. God incarnate. The Bible confirms this.
@@evangelistkimpatrik ok, so the bible says Jesus is god, and you believe it.
Why do you believe the Bible?
A: they dont
Prove your claim.
@@toarrestsomeoneistoviolate2643 faith is not a valid pathway to truth. You cam believe anything on faith.
Cheers.
@@theespionageact5249 You just made two additional claims without any proof. You just tripled your burden.
Now prove your claims: all 3 of them.
@@toarrestsomeoneistoviolate2643 name something i cant believe on faith
@TwwwJ JwwwT cool story.
folks ask me where's the evidence for my faith. I say that as an atheist I had none and wanted less. That I have it is it's own evidence.
Just finished the chapter on religion in the book “Sapiens. A brief history of humankind”.
It certainly puts Christianity and the other pretend monotheistic religions in their place.
If Christians believe in Satan then they believe in 2 gods. Or else this all powerful god could do away with him. It starts a vicious circle that has no end.
Monotheism, dualism and polytheism are ultimately illogical. We continue on without them.
Frank Willet that's silly. Satan is a created being. God is not. Whoever wrote that book doesn't understand very very basic Judeo-Christian scripture. Oh well. Most dont. They think that they do but when they study it absent the Holy Spirit they'll always get it wrong.
Nikki Naparst
This is really quite simple.
So why doesn’t god get rid of him?
Because of free will.
So god created evil?
What’s next?
Frank Willet well technically God did get rid of Satan by kicking him out of heaven & sending him down here on earth. Now why did he send him here, that answer was never clear. But God says he will ultimately take care of evil in the end revelation. And Satan is no god but rather he wants to be god.
Michael Ramos
That’s hardly getting rid of him.
You believe in 2 gods with Satan being one of them. Or else why does your god not get rid of him?
Frank Willet He says he will take care of all evil in the end revelation. And again, Satan is no god. If he was don’t you think there would be this epic battle going on between them too, no! Satan is not all powerful. You can’t have 2 infinite’s, one would have to lack something so the other would be truly infinite. God created Satan & Satan rebelled. There is only one god!
Isaiah 43:10
“Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.”
"Faith and reason" is an oxymoron. No reasonable intellectually honest person dismisses the evidence for evolution and instead has faith in an Adam&Eve story just because a book claims itself to be the holy truth.
What evidence for evolution ?
@@Josiahministries
Did you also ask for evidence when they were indoctrinating you with the Adam&Eve story? Or, did you just believe it because the primitive book they showed you claims itself to be the holy truth?
@WORST CHANNEL EVER
Do you really think you are more intelligent and have a better reading comprehension than Mark Twain, Issac Asimov, Albert Einstein, and Thomas Paine?
"The best cure for Christianity is reading the Bible."
Mark Twain
"It (Bible) is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies."
Mark Twain
It ain't those parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand."
Mark Twain
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
Isaac Asimov
"The Bible, a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."
Albert Einstein
“It is not a God, just and good, but a devil, under the name of God, that the Bible describes.”
Thomas Paine.
@@AtamMardes I think the evidence points to God being the creator of humans, and to be the creator of the universe. Also that Jesus Christ spoke the truth. I just followed the evidence where it led to. Faith shouldn't be blind , ppl just never do their own research.
Where's your evidence? There is none. Do you realize that amino acids do not bond in anything less that pristine conditions to form polypeptides? Even then they don't randomly combine. Do your research.
As reason goes up, faith goes down 🤷♂️
Just the opposite. Reason and evidence are the foundation for trust and faith. We have the evidence for the historic Christ.
@@brentahre9693
I agree, "trust" goes up along with reason/evidence 👍 Now define "faith".
J Ovesen
Faith is jumping the gap between high probability and 100% certainty. We do it when we cross the street. And when we get married. Faith is only done by the living. Without faith, you’re dead.
@@brentahre9693
_Faith is jumping the gap between high probability and 100% certainty._
100% certainty is just another degree of probability... But if that's how we are defining faith today, it follows that the more evidence you have, the less faith you need.
J Ovesen
It’s not how we define it today. It’s always been the definition of faith. Apparently you’ve been deceived or misinformed.
You also ignored my point about faith being done, only by the living. Because, absolute certainty is very cold and dead. 2+2=4 doesn’t have the same satisfaction as a relationship with the living God or a fulfilling marriage.
Short answer you can't.
"To see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.”
It's through reason that faith is found.
everything takes a little bit of faith my friend. I hope you are doing well!
@@penajuan46 There has to be reason for that to even be in a conversation. The bible is filled with historical, abd scientific inaccuracies with unreliable writings from people who some haven't even existed with primitive impulses. You need a lot of faith I believe in that and less reason
I take your point. I think most Christians articulate faith for lack of reason. This simply isn't true. Science, for example, strengthens my curiosity, faith, and dedication to pursuing a relationship with God, not because some pastor told me what to think or to have 'faith.' Just as faith without works is dead, so too is faith without reason.
In any case, may God bless you and your family.
@@jaybirdjetwings7516 give us historical and scientific inaccuracies from the Bible, you made a claim support your statement.