How To Charge More For A Logo- Deep Dive ep. 4
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2017
- Is it possible to charge more for a logo? How is it possible that some designers can charge tens of thousands of dollars more for essentially the same work? Episode 4 of the series w/ Melinda Livsey.
The struggle for small design companies is finding / getting those clients who know / understand the worth and value we bring to their companies and are willing to pay our worth and pricing. (Being unknown is probably the biggest issue /obstacle)
- better site ✅
- different mindset ✅
- confident interaction ✅
- precise / beautiful showcase of works ✅
- listening better / understanding client needs / business ✅
- taking all variables to create the right solution and needs for the client ✅
- creating a marketing / social media strategy for our company to get known
Annotations
01:55 Limiting Beliefs - How do you charge more for logos?
04:00 Challenging Assumptions - You can't see strategy
08:00 What is reputation mean to you? (Case Studies, Body of Work, History, Notoriety, Testimonials)
11:20 How is your work presented?
14:25 Don't try to be original, just try to be good - Paul Rand
18:16 Clients buy the least risky option - Familiarity = Safety
21:05 Traditional Media vs New Media
27:17 Role playing - Handling Objections
28:50 Breakdown: Double your rate.
32:00 What kind of car do you drive?
35:55 Make your website a filter for higher paying clients.
38:00 Recreating experiences by paying attention to details to paint a story
44:00 Sell through logic and emotion - aka Jordan Belfort
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"Don't try to be original, try to be good"
Familiarity is safe. There's a reason most companies branding looks similar.
0
I started my design business about 6 months ago. I was charging hourly for websites (making around $450-$800) and $100 for brand packages. I found your channel two months ago and I've learned so much. I just charged $8,000 for brand packaging and $25,000 for web design, I would have never had the guts to without the knowledge and confidence The Futur has given me. You all really do change lives,
Love from Atlanta ❤️
Amazing
whats your website.
I don't even do design or logo or any of this stuff. But your practices to be implemented in any consultant industry is amazing. I'm so glad I accidentally stumbled upon your channel.
Welcome
I love this series, i cant believe its free. Thank you so much for this. This channel deserves more followers.
thanks Leeland. it's not free. it costs us a lot of money to produce this content. we ask that people who benefit from this to support us so that we can make more.
Can’t believe it’s not butter
I love the addition of Melinda because she represents a lot of us who are just starting out, or at least the same thought process we all go through. Keep it coming, it's super relatable.
Neri Garcia thank you. :)
I absolutely love and admire Chris' ability to draw out the answers from the very people that are posing the questions, just by simply listening, repeating and asking questions! That is a subtle but a very powerful skill!
most people don't understand what is happening. they think i'm being evasive.
and that is why you get paid the big bucks lol @@thefutur
I found gold.
Practicing these right away with a client by recording consultation sessions on my phone.
So much value.
This was SO helpful. I feel if I’d had someone to tell me when I graduated years ago that I didn’t need to make everything from my head and try to be original, I would be so much further along in my career. I think designers who feel a strong urge to “be original” should try making fine art on the side. As an artist you are encouraged to be original. As a designer, you kinda need to learn the trends and how to design for them. I’m learning this the hard, slow way lol
so little that is produced could be deemed as "original". instead, everything is a remix.
Wow. WOW. I can't believe this only has 17k views, it's UNBELIEVABLE, UNDERRATEDLY valuable! I super love this series with Melinda, please never stop making them!
we have a few more, but then I think Melinda needs to take a break.
I love the way you challenged her perspective, it's almost socratic
I'm a freelancer graphic designer who started after I found I have a knack for using graphic design software like Photoshop and illustrator. I had no real idea how much you could make in the field and have been charging $40 to $60 for logos and album covers. I'm redoing my website and up-sizing my clientele. Thanks for the the red pill.
Robert Sanders good job!
Robert. I have found two things to be true: Value is in the eye of the beholders AND value is a function of the level or degree, intensity, and breadth of SERVICE that is IMAGINED and eventually PROVEN to be RENDERED.
Sameeee 😩😩😩
Having a knack for software does not a designer make. There's more to graphic design than knowing software.
Robert Sanders wow I hope you’ve moved beyond 40-60.
$5k for a logo when you've been in business for 2 years sounds pretty good to me.
Mark Narusson she's doing great!
Thanks Mark! Took a few times of doubling my rate to get there. Onward and upward!
Melinda, curious to hear where you are on the journey to $18K...
Agreed
@@melindalivsey1 dear I am a graphic designing student...
Due to the current circumstances I m stuck in home idle..
I m looking forward in making logos an sell them.
I mean I really wanna follow your footsteps 🥺🥺🥺🥺
Pls ma'am don't ignore me
Plszzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I just don't know anything here, neither I m finding any customers pls help me pls..
I stayed for 43 minutes, this guy know what he is doing.
Chris just revealed the secrets to life.
lol. what up matt?
The Futur just been working on my portfolio and class projects. Haven’t seen the sun in a while lol.
Can't say enough how grateful I am for what you teach. Thanks Chris.
This video for me was valuable in many ways.
1.It's important to believe I'm more than I charge ( Value)
2.Having a eye for details and incorporating this it in the conversation and sales talk.
3.Learning for the best in the marketplace and practice practice practice.!!!
Thank you The Futur I value your content!!!
This series with you two has been excellent, Jedi and Padawan.
I try my best to do things in an intentional way. Melinda was going to be a lightning rod for our audience. the hypothesis is proving to be true.
Thanks Ben!
I haven't even started watching yet, but I just want to say that this series is wonderful and please keep 'em coming!!
Thank you!
I watched this at the beginning of building my little business for confidence to raise pricing - 5 years later I'm back for another confidence boost
Chris, the calm delivery of your logic is like iron sharpening iron. Please keep teaching. You're very effective. Looking forward to the day that I'm able to reference you as a mentor
Thanks, will do!
Chris Do, I just wanna express how grateful I am for these sort of insights you give and how awesome and inspiring you are. I just thought I should settle for less, now I see HOW I can change to become so much more, and therefore, charge what I'm really worth of.
you are worth it! you just have to believe it.
Can't get enough of your content guys, so brilliant and honest on many levels!
Do art at your own time. This is art and business coming together flawlessly.
SO glad i stumbled onto the Futur, literally changed my whole approach to my business
Im currently restructuring my business model. Watched the whole video agai and took notes. Did you manage to get your approach right? I can relate to you in terms of being weary of overcharging but what Chris says makes a lot of sense.
Still working on it. :)
I have watched this episode at least 6 times. It is sooooo good. Love the "Do you have the skills to redraw that logo." And Melinda's answer was exactly what I would of replied to you. Again, thank you for this amazing video.
wow. 6 times? thanks!
Medio Design haha I echo Chris- 6 times?!
Absolutely! You know, a bit like listening to some music that gets better and better the more you listen to it. Or that you hear some variations in the melody that you haven't heard the first time you have listened to it. The more I watch it, the more I learn, and the better I understand how to speak to my clients.
Great dynamics with you two. This is brilliant.
This Design Life thank you!
Yeah!
This fella is so sharp!!!! I like how he isn't rude, but he pulls no punches and accepts no excuses.
This is one of the best videos I have ever seen. The number one reason people don't get what they want is that they don't ask for it. They talk themselves into believing they do not deserve it or they aren't worth it.
I have done management in mid sized companies. In mid to large companies, they don't notice the difference between $5k and $30k. What they notice is how you make them feel about their decision to hire you.
Thank you.
I'm so glad Melinda is in the show now. I totally relate to her questions and concerns. More Melinda please!
more on the way.
Thanks, Anna!
I just discovered this channel. It makes me feel proud of being part of the design community. Thank you!
Same :)
Both of you are what makes the internet a priceless resource. Thank you for the info and putting some fat on my head.
From 28 min and on is by far the most important...sales and getting over objections!!
THIS WAS SIMPLY INSPIRATIONAL. I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET BETTER PAYING CLIENTS AND THIS HELPED A LOT. THANKS.
Absolutely incredible. First video of yours I've watched and I'm feverishly taking notes. 🙌
Great!
one of the best lessons i've learned from a professor of mine through a design course was that 75% of the job isn't about doing the actual design work, but selling and convincing stakeholders and colleagues that your design is the *right design. there's always room for critiques, iteration, etc. but you need to be able to come with a strong point of view whenever you're presenting your work.
I’ve been watching so many of your videos in the past week and this is easily my favorite one. So much useful information.
Over the next 6 months to a year it is going to be great seeing how Melinda evolves not only as a designer, but as a business owner.
It's great to see the energy going into cultivating talent and showing first hand how harmonious the relationship should be between us service providers and our clients.
Sharing this with my local design community. Great work to everyone involved!
you guys get to come along for the ride on Melinda's journey.
Thanks Brandon! I'm excited to see where I'll be at in 6 months too. :P
Love the questions from Melinda! So real.
[the other] Tim Wong thanks :)
I really appreciate this channel, because I have searched and searched, but there aren't a lot of resources with this kind of information and experience on the BUSINESS of design. 1 billion thumbs up!
thanks Aaron
No prob!
Loving this series (I wish I had found it a year ago), but I'm learning so much from it. Thank you Chris and Melinda. Gonna keep watching it!
this is a big lesson. thanks The Futur. learnt lots from you guys and everything is now changing to me. keep inspiring us. love from Uganda
Sooooooo refreshing to see a female graphic designer discuss the difficulties she is facing as a business owner and I am glad Chris is the one dropping the gems 💎 to help overcome this. Confidence is a primary aspect of being successful and we rarely delve into what the core problems are as designers. I still have a long way to go but this vid is everything!! Thank you Melinda for your honesty and again Chris aka #thefutur ❤️👏🏽💃🏾💎🤗
Onye you're quite welcome!!
i like all the emoticons.
The Futur ❤️
I’m not a designer but you cover many points that are universal in business. Great vid.
I love the series I love how you challenge each other and go into depth, this makes it a lot easier for a person to understand what to do and how to go about it.
I LOVE this series. Chris, the way you talked about those little details, I could feel it - that made me happy :) I want that.
i have an exercise for an upcoming live stream about learning how to see.
Awesome!
Same here Robert!
Loving this series guys
thanks Jonathan.
Thank you!
So inspirational! You reaffirm a lot of thoughts I already have! My knowledge and confidence grow with every video.
Unbelievable! I really believe most of us don’t use those principles while interacting with clients and at the end we fail to impress them to spend more money for what they’re actually willing to pay for. This video specifically taught us a lot more than just improving design skills and processes. Its all about sales techniques in creative industries. Millions of thanks 🙏
i love these! they really resonate with me and my current business status
I'm so happy to hear that!
I find really interesting what you've mentioned about spending time being more aware of how something makes you feel and why. I've recently started doing something like that while I travel. I've started collecting imagery with my phone to create "travel moodboards", something that will make me remember the moment and inspire me in all aspects of my life.
Adriana Lemus that's a great idea
I appreciate her honesty so much. This is so valuable. Thank you!
Thank you for the value you add in your episodes, I like the way you speak and have started mimicking it, it really makes me feel at ease. Also, this video created a lot of perspective for me, thanx again ;)
Wow this is such an important conversation for creatives ! We always undersell ourselves. As an artist I’ve had people give me double of what I asked for because they knew the ask was too low and I was undervaluing my work that much. Now that I’m getting older I’m just so sick of working for pennies when I know I have a lot to offer and I have years of experience and that is worth a lot more. Thank you for sharing your knowledge !
This video touched on topics that I really struggle with. One topic was about authenticity and taking ideas from other designs is considered copying or stealing. Another topic was about how hard it is to design for myself but not for others. Melissa - I feel the same way and struggle with that too. You've given me a lot to think about. Thank you so much for putting the time into creating this.
You are very welcome Sara!
Glad I'm not the only one with these questions.
This is absolute gold love it I'm a long way off this but I'm just taking all this in while working and it's gone to give me so much confidence and an attitude change .
"Clients do not hire the best or most unique options, they hire the least risky options". Another amazing stuff I've come across. I would definitely double my charge from now as a step towards.
Great video, Melinda & Chris! I can relate to Melinda so much. Super inspired after watching this. I just 3X on a logo bid and was awarded the job, no pushback.
Steve Raboin YES!!! That is so awesome. Congrats!!
Another great video guys, loved it. I had the same block as Melinda of being original and I still have, but I will start thinking your way Chris. Thanks.
That's awesome, Emilis!
This is not the first time I watch this video, but time and time again I watch your videos to refresh and reframe myself. I follow all your social media accounts and specially all of your youtube videos, everything is help in many ways. even though I am not even near $5k because of geographical location where I work, but sure I'll achieve high, since I work with clients globally, Trying to land clients at that high since I believe I have the skills and knowledge to be that level. Thanks a lot for the service you guys give for the design community, keep up the good work.
WOW MAN! Gave me goosebumps especially at 44:43. Chris, you are a superhero... No doubt how Melinda has transformed superbly and quickly. I spend my Sundays watching TheFutur only and today it was all Melinda series. She is amazing too!!!
This was amazing as always..
Would love to see more.
For Melinda: u were looking beautiful ;)
thanks for asking questions out of my mind :)
You can check out our channel for more graphic design videos.
Wow!! that was a stunning class. I'll sure keeping up with this! Thanks!!
Glad you liked it!
Appreciate you being honest & vulnerable during this chat Melinda. It's helped us all who feel like we're in the same situation. Really helpful video guys
This is INCREDIBLE. Thank you for your very frank discussions about pricing and attitude. This is invaluable stuff, and I've gained so much insight into the business side of things from you, Chris!
Great conversation. Not only am I learning from this but Im sharing this with younger designers who are my interns, and they need to learn this at the early stage in their career. I wish I had this knowledge 18 years ago :) Thank you.
That's wonderful! Agreed. I wish I had heard this years ago.
The color temperature of this video is on the cooler side and the shallower depth of field makes everything more cinematic. Observations. Thanks again for a great video!
cooler on purpose. more cinematic is what we strive for.
Dude is really intelligent. I really love the way you engage people, not just in this video, you just ooze genuine wisdom...much love from Nigeria G. You're helping people all over the world
These videos are fantastic, great content. The bit about people sleepwalking through life was profound and resonant for me, going beyond just design and dealing deeper into the human condition. Thanks you, massive value!
thanks. the sleeper must awaken. - Dune, Frank Herbert.
My favorite one! A lot of helpful information loaded into this.
Odie HTX very helpful indeed
loving this series!
So happy you are!
I think Melinda asked some really great questions, and Chris' answers are great as usual!
Really great episode, learning a lot. :)
All these years later, the insights are still valid. These videos are definitely inspiring one to view things differently and yes, to be present in the moment.
Dude are you foreal? This is content College/U used and we have to pay and you gave it for free thank you so much! :D keep it up.
we are for real. make some money. donate when you can afford it. every dollar helps us make more content.
Loving this series!
Yay!
I'm glad that I found this channel! Very valuable information, Thanks.
I've been in the industry for more than 12 years, retired from the military, and completely unchallenged in my current design position. I've been binge watching your videos all day today! Bravo sir! Thank you! I am inspired to step aside from myself and take off!
Thank you. Thanks for your service.
Yay more Melinda!:)
Thanks jun lv :)
jun lv yes please.
I love that he mentioned James Jean.
These deep dives are the best! There are too many 20 minute or less videos that educate but don’t get the depth!
Thank you 🙏
WOW!...utterly exceptional role-playing and the content...my word, extraordinary Chris. Theatre of the mind was big in radio work in the 80s and to see you use it this space was a lesson in humility and subtlety. Danke!
So, what I find hard is when we're talking purely about logo design, and yet you're talking a lot about brand experiences and positioning... how do you define what is covered in your quote, and how can you make the client feel like you're not just trying to up sell into branding strategy and user experience etc etc... How do you manage expectations so that your client doesn't feel disappointed when at the end if all they are paying for is a mark, and not for you to work on strategy or packaging, or how to use the mark that you've designed effectively. I watched in a previous talk where you were asking a class what they charge, and some people were charging 18,000 for just the logo, and some charging 5000 for a logo and strategy and package of things.
How much can a mark do without supporting work and brand identity work such as a brand bible etc etc?
Interesting question. Because where I live, a lot of businesses are looking just for a new logo, not necessarily a whole brand identity system. And a lot of them just need a logo redesign.
Steph Ayres well the brand strategy and all that jazz you do first helps/guides you into designing the best logo for the client because majority of businesses need a whole identity system whether it's big or small...if the client just wants a logo just for the sake of having a logo it won't really benefit the business as they won't have strategy in place or in other words a story for their brand to grow...
Brandon M sure I'm not debating that at all, but some companies only want to come to you or have a budget for logo design. they don't know they need all the other stuff, and yes you could only sell a package service and not deal with clients only wanting logos because you know that won't be effective, but here we are talking purely about charging for a logo design.
Steph, friend me on FB. send me a message w/ your same question. perhaps i can answer this live on the air w/ you.
I think this could be an interesting topic, I see the point Steph is trying to make, would love to hear your take on this, Chris. How and where would you separate or combine these two: a logo design and brand strategy
"wanting it to come from ME", when Melinda said that I'm sure MOST of us were thinking/feeling the Exact same thing - I know I was or Use to All the Time, but since having been watching these episodes I am Learning that It's OK to Create just Like someone else ( then I'll add my own twist to it ) - Another Great Episode you 2, Thanks ... @jamesburke4photos
thanks Jim!
It's freeing !
INCREDIBLY HELPFUL, i used to charge $50 logo, and even did a logo for $5 one time, its disgusting i know
Wow! Man, I am stunned. This is all round helpful information. You are teaching people to sell themselves and establish a brand and not stoop to pressure of the customer, but to establish their own worth.
From 36:05 to 36:47
Would you ever consider doing a live review of user submitted portfolios in which you ascribe a price range based on the quality of the work and its presentation?
Great idea!
yes. and no. value isn't in the portfolio or work. i make no claim that our work is better than anyone else's. but i'm able to c charge more than most. it's about how you are positioned in the market.
Fair enough. Appreciate the response 👌
The Futur , Hey I was analyzing your sentence and I would like to gain more of an understanding to what you mean by " Value isn't in the portfolio or work"..
What I am looking to understand is , Why?
Also, "positioning yourself in the market" in order to charge more. Could you explain that .
If you have already covered these in previous videos could you put a link to them.
Thank you Mr. Do
The value can't be in the portfolio work alone, because most trained designers can do the same type of work at the same level (what Chris was trying to get me to see with the UPS logo). So solely judging value on the work itself turns the work into a commodity. That's why positioning yourself (being, let's say, high class) by presenting yourself as such will help raise the value and the value you are giving to your client. Have you watched the first two episodes of the series? They may help explain more.
This episode is so dense!
The title did say Deep dive right?
My brain almost exploded.
Very helpful! Loved when Melinda’s answer was “it makes sense talking about it here but when I get home it all just feels overwhelming” < truth right there!!
Chris always open my mind and give me motivation. It’s amazing how he’s giving all of that information and knowledge and it’s holding true overtime. This video is More than 4 years ago still works. precious. Much love and respect
32:00 was Jedi AF
all about tribal marketing.
:)
I love Melinda.
she's in the pro group. say hi to her.
I know, I did. We were exchanging messages on Facebook :D
Aw, thanks, Simone!!! :D
This definitely cleared up a lot of personal questions I had along with the ones I asked Chris Do. It makes sense and helped me realize what I'm missing. Great video!!!
Awesome! Glad to hear.
Absolutely priceless information - Many thanks to Chris and Melinda, and the makers of the video.
Thank you 🙏
Awesome video. Really enjoying this series. I think the reason I don't feel comfortable charging more for my work, is that I don't feel confident enough to tell my client "This will bring results for your business". Telling my clients that the new logo I will design for them, or the new website will help their business grow is kind of a big deal. I mean, a logo doesn't run a business. You can have to best looking website, the best looking logo, but if the persons running the company are managing it in a bad way, your work won't help them grow, right? And as a designer, I'm not seeing myself telling them how to run their business, or telling them they are doing something wrong in their business. How would you handle this? Thank you so much.
True. But still, selling strategy means "Ok, your business is "here", let's bring it "here" using the following strategy". Maybe I don't understand correctly what "Selling strategy" means, but as a designer, with some basic business knowledge, if a client tells me "We want to redesign our website because we are not selling enough products on it", I can design a new website with a better UI and UX, but It doesn't mean they will sell more just because of that. I guess the best thing here would be to try to find with the client if the lack of sells is because of the website, or because of other things. But that becomes more like a business management/analysis service than a design job, isn't it?
I'm not sure I fully understand your point, but yes, it is clearly a question of confidence. But I feel like I do not control this business management part enough to tell my client "Hey, you know what, here's a strategy that will greatly improve your business for that specific area". If I don't have the confidence to do it, it's because I am not 100% sure I can help the client grow as much as he would like and I don't think I should "try" achieving my clients business goals.
This is exactly what I feel about the topic too. I understand that selling design services (especially to big clients with big budgets) involves a lot more than talking about pretty and colours and mood boards. However, as a one-person show working out of my bedroom in Eastern Europe, I'm not even sure I actually want and should be aiming towards those 18k clients. I'm definitely not comfortable imagining myself in a conversation with a big business and I do actually enjoy creating things on a smaller scale. At the same time, I know I have talent paired with years of education and practice and my work is worth more than what I get by working with small business owners and semi-professionals who have $200 to spend on visual identity.
I'd love to learn more about being in a middle-range market as not everyone will/can become a full service design agency with the confidence to take on the biggest jobs.
Generally, I just wish the discussion about design and pricing would shift towards explaining how a designer becomes a business strategist and how do I know if I am the type of person/designer who is ready to work with the 18k company because I don't understand if it's possible at all to be a one-man show and connect with high paying clients. Hearing ''just raise your prices'' doesn't give me any confidence to do so and I know that I first need to acquire certain (untaught) skills in order to do that..
Ivana has hit the nail on the head here! I too am a one man business, and, even though I have the years of experience, over 15 years, I am still struggling with the $100 - $500 type of client. Even though I want to move into the bigger bracket, I still only attract the lower clients. And, I feel it has a lot to do with me and how I view what I can offer. I know I can be higher, because I have been there before. So it's do-able. But I have watched my prices drop over the months, because I feel myself having to compete against other designers from other parts of the world who are offering work so much cheaper. I know that I have to get over the fear of loosing a client because I am quoting higher! I love though, how Chris has slowed the client down, and make them think about how they want their business or product to be presented to the public. Also, awesome video having Melinda there, I feel myself relating to here exactly.
Have you watched the first 2 episodes, Clint? We do touch on some of your questions.
I used to work in telecommunication company where I closed contracts based on emotions, there are numerous examples, but one of my best one is closing deal on focus that he should switch from hc feature phone user to smart phone user with asking him what does he love? His answer was "I like to go fishing on river", I had asked him "Wouldn't be nice for you to know exact level of water of xyz river? Or even current weather on your fishing location, spot?" and I showed him that in practice. So that was it, he didn't ask a thing, just said. Where do I sign up?
Alen Čapelja smooth!
Your thinking is a sum of your experience and influences. That's a big one Chris, thanks.
Appreciate it.
Love Chris! He's always so insightful and full of knowledge. Respect!
Thank you
wow, I see so much of myself in her, WE JUST HAVE TO LOOK AND SOUND LIKE A $18,000 COMPANY AND WORK HARD TO GET THERE. Thanks, guys.
that's the key
Yes!! Glad you can relate.
shhhhhhhht I can't even get $5000 lol
you will. we all start somewhere. keep learning the craft and master the business of creativity.
Hey, I wasn't always charging 5k. You'll get there!
My challenge isn't really charging, it mainly finding clients that are in that price range. I've turned away alot of potential clients because their budgets were so low. Now with 99 designs and cheap work, I send some people there if they "just" want a logo but don't really understand what they want from their company and brand.
So I have a question for both Melinda & Chris - - what if a 1 person start-up, or a mom & pop shop approached you for a logo design? They obviously don't have $14K tucked away for a logo design - barely even $5K .. so do you offer special pricing for them, or do you not work with them?
The Futur Hi Chris! I have a question for you..What kind of books are you reading, you have read, searched, based on your speach from few last minutes of this video(story telling, observing people, how do they act, how to speak with people etc) ?
Thank you a lot
PS I am a big fan of this channel, lot to learn, gives me strength to keep up with my work, ideas, inspiration, admiration etc
39:00 minute mark really really really hit home. I've spent the last 5 years building an IT career only to find out it was not fulfilling. As a musician and artist i defaulted to following my passions. I was sleep walking but always paying this close attention to detail. Having the urge to create and to make something. These videos are super encouraging and incredibly helpful. I am a beginner in this field and there is nothing scarier than dropping everything to start all over but these videos provide an immense amount of help. Thank you guys so much for putting this out into the world !
@Thefutur The value you are providing is crazy. Thank you.