"Incredibly, the human body can tolerate localised g-forces in the hundreds for a split second. Even a solid right hook to the chin may register a hundred g locally without imposing any lasting damage. A sneeze results in about 2g of acceleration. A 2019 study by the American Academy of Neurology concluded that the average g-force experienced in a rugby tackle was 21g." -Boss Hunting article about a Formula 1 crash where the driver survived 51g deceleration when he hit a wall at around 300 km/hour
Wow, that's insane! In that case, you might survive these acceleration levels. I think you'd definitely be in trouble for the 700 and 1000 m/s ones though since you're at pretty high levels for atleast a second of time.
@@AndrewmanGaming little late to answer, but if you are interested in learning more about g tolerance, the tests by John Stapp would be a good place to start. As part of a program run by the US airforce, he did extensive tests with rocket sleds. The fastest test he did was a foreward facing run, and pulled just over 40g
Parachutes have similar mechanics wrt planetary atmosphere to atmo thrusters - their efficiency is affected by atmosphere density (they also can't deploy at low densities at all, e.g. on Pertam the effective deployment height is pretty close to the ground) and of course the gravity of a planet. Would be nice to see similar tests performed on different planets (except moon for obvious reasons).
It's an honor to meet the king of parachutes himself! I'm ashamed to say I really dont use the block as much as I should, but it seems to be the most powerful way to slow down a ship in the game! The final test in this video managed to go from 1042m/s to 132m/s in just over 1 second which is INSANE! I'm glad you didnt program in and adverse g-force effects on the engineer XD
@@AndrewmanGaming Its all based on the mod that keen incorporated. Ideally you should deploy them in high atmosphere and let them slow down the ship a bit more before reaching lower altitude. The chutes have 2 drag modes, one acts more as a drag chute then the full deployment that slows it down to its new terminal velocity. The formula for the chute is based on real physics and follows the drag equation, so the force is amplified by velocity squared. I had to cheat a little in SE and make it grab a bit faster than it would IRL due to the fact that the atmosphere height is shorter than in real life. Drag forces are also multiplied by the planets atmospheric density. If you want a softer effect you probably have to combine it with my atmospheric drag mod which applies drag to all craft in atmosphere. This is one of the main reasons you see such high g forces. There is no drag by default in SE to slow you down before the parachute takes effect. Thus the shock effect.
@@DraygoKorvan Oh wow, thanks for the explanation! I had no idea the parachute was adopted from a mod. That must have been ages ago! Regardless, it definitely works well. Maybe even a little too well :D
I usually go with the rough rule that on small grid one chute for every 10,000KG and 100,000KG for large grid at 1G. It's not exact but it's easy to work with. That usually slows down things to the point things don't take damage regardless of how the vehicle lands.
The first test looked like a terminal velocity problem - the craft will decelerate, getting closer and closer to that value - so you could do a 1000m chute opening and the results should be closer. I love the data!
Awesome test dude. I did a somewhat simpler test to see how fast a parachute can stop a rover or ship going forward, but whipping out the spreadsheets not my thing lol. Keep it up, love the content.
I'm pretty sure the altitude takes mountains into account so it should balance out. You might be right though. We did come really close to successfully slowing down, getting all the way to 132m/s before crashing.
IIUC atmosphere density (affects decceleration & lowest speed) works off sea level altitude, but deployment height uses altitude above surface. It shouldn't make a difference in that test on EarthLike but generally dropping stuff on mountains is a bit more risky.
@@ОлегПыжков-и9б That makes sense. So pulling the chute above a mountain still has the 1000m of clearance, but starts with a lower atmosphere density due to being a bit farther from the center. Thanks for the clarification :D
Nice tests but I would have definitely set those parachute deploy heights higher to give them a chance to slow down. Your top speed test only showed you needed to deploy parachutes higher. You can slow down any speed given enough height as the parachutes are effectively indestructable!
Since a car crash is like 30 gs, this all makes sense. Also, terminal velocity on earth is 53m/s, so it makes sense the parachutes weren’t tuned for this. NASA uses different chutes for supersonic deceleration.
there is a bit of difference between a ship landing safely and being destroyed. in between, a ship can survive the fall, taking damage on landing but otherwise largely intact. land safely = Y land safely = D land safely = N
Yes you are right about that! Previously I did classify the landing with the 1,600,000kg one as P for 'partially destroyed' but just changed it to N for destroyed for simplicity. Really to me a partially damaged ship where you survive but your cargo is sent practically in orbit from the collision is destroyed for all intents and purposes. Put it this way: if there were SE insurance, they would total the ship and I would probably *not* get any payout.
I have a suggestion for a future space buster… is it possible to get a ship from earth to space from only the power it can generate, no reactors, batteries or capacitors. Would like to see what you can come up with.
Not Parachutes, and I'm not sure if you have done this before, but the underlying question for another Mythbusters is "How much Ice?" tldr: Large Block Build.: I'm currently building a very large ship and was wondering how much ice does it take to fill a hydrogen tank. Easy enough.. but how much of that would be used to to charge a battery from dead flat, using a hydrogen engine and therefore how much ice? are hydro engines worth it?. Is it more efficient to convert ice to hydrogen and oxygen at the same time? Also, how much ice to make a single storage tank of oxygen? Does oxygen usage in an air tight cubic space (say 100 meters squared - 10x10x10) relate to to liters at sea level IRL? Lots of questions, so might make a couple of more episodes. Many thanks, and btw, big fan of your content.
Man, thank you very much! I´m just about to design a less expensive way to return from "Pertam Orbiter" (scenario) to the ground outpost. This will definitely do the stuff! Cheers!
for the sheet @19:47 you do know that 1 second =1000 milliseconds ? so if you are taking the measures every 5 ms all what you have there is 240ms not even a quarter of a second. but still it gives a good indication on what's going on there
check out John Paul Stapp ,the history guy did a video on him. "By riding the decelerator sled, in his 29th and last ride at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, Stapp demonstrated that a human can withstand at least 46.2 g" (wiki)
That's amazing! They dont specify how long he endured forces that high unless I missed it. They do mention as well that on multiple occasions, he had some serious medical problems like broken wrists, broken ribs, and bleeding retinas. Enduring high G Forces does not sound like something I want to do on a Saturday morning :D
I'm not safe from the G's, my spaceships usually have half a dozen parachutes for quick braking on re-entry. Why? I hate ships losing bits and pieces from landing, so I just slowly let gravity handle descent.
WHAT ARE THE SETTINGS OF YOUR WORLD ? because thrusters and parachutes behave differently with inventory size multipliers, and i'm even not sure that it is linear.
I think the chute made from anything real would shred slowing that much weight that quickly. The game engine doesn't calculate any of that. Is the atmosphere thinner the higher you go? I know atmo thrusters are affected by height. You could open the chute when you hit the atmosphere. You could tell if the atmosphere at the border going from 0 Atmosphere to Sea-level amounts in a one-pixel plane or is the atmosphere less dense. if it doesn't, opening higher up would reduce the G affects.
it probably too late to say this, and it's also probably a misinformation, because i heard that a long time ago, so no sources, but i tend to believe that we had some test of influence of excessive g- force on human body, the poor guy had to withstand something something 100 or so g-force, he's eyes popped out of the eye sockets, he broke almost, if not all bones in his body, there where a lot of internal organ damages and failures, so yep he died. Again, i remembered it vaguely, and considering how long ago i have become knowledgeable of this, i cannot exclaim that this is even remotely true.
Good call. I'm a little foggy on my calc/algebra knowledge, and by foggy I mean to say I have no idea how to calculate the slope of that curve. I'll look it up and see if I can get back to you with the slope.
@@AndrewmanGaming By the way those curves look, it seems parachutes' apply slowing force proportional to the speed they're moving. Barring the bit of time right after deployment, you have a pretty much exact exponential decay curve, which with some physics nerdery and measuring the parachute diameter can allow to estimate the atmosphere density. Also the part where the slowing begins seems to have the same duration in time regardless of speed, meaning it's caused by the parachute opening (think about it, the devs actually simulated partially opened parachutes having less drag) and not by the atmosphere having some kind of density gradient.
@@pocarski This is good intel. I think you're probably right. To Dennis' question, I unfortunately couldnt find out how to come up with a line equation that makes sense. If you'd like to take a look at the data on Google Sheets though, I've linked it in the description.
You know it’s a great episode when the spreadsheet comes out 😂
"Incredibly, the human body can tolerate localised g-forces in the hundreds for a split second. Even a solid right hook to the chin may register a hundred g locally without imposing any lasting damage. A sneeze results in about 2g of acceleration. A 2019 study by the American Academy of Neurology concluded that the average g-force experienced in a rugby tackle was 21g."
-Boss Hunting article about a Formula 1 crash where the driver survived 51g deceleration when he hit a wall at around 300 km/hour
Wow, that's insane! In that case, you might survive these acceleration levels. I think you'd definitely be in trouble for the 700 and 1000 m/s ones though since you're at pretty high levels for atleast a second of time.
Damn haha, although, the 1000 one you ain't surviving.... Especially after the crash into the floor hahahaha
@@AndrewmanGaming little late to answer, but if you are interested in learning more about g tolerance, the tests by John Stapp would be a good place to start. As part of a program run by the US airforce, he did extensive tests with rocket sleds.
The fastest test he did was a foreward facing run, and pulled just over 40g
Maybe the best way to describe Space Engineers: ” It crashed a bit less”
Parachutes have similar mechanics wrt planetary atmosphere to atmo thrusters - their efficiency is affected by atmosphere density (they also can't deploy at low densities at all, e.g. on Pertam the effective deployment height is pretty close to the ground) and of course the gravity of a planet. Would be nice to see similar tests performed on different planets (except moon for obvious reasons).
Space Buster Rock Launcher 😆
Hi, I developed the physics for the parachutes. If you have questions about the math behind it I can probably answer it :)
It's an honor to meet the king of parachutes himself! I'm ashamed to say I really dont use the block as much as I should, but it seems to be the most powerful way to slow down a ship in the game! The final test in this video managed to go from 1042m/s to 132m/s in just over 1 second which is INSANE! I'm glad you didnt program in and adverse g-force effects on the engineer XD
@@AndrewmanGaming Its all based on the mod that keen incorporated. Ideally you should deploy them in high atmosphere and let them slow down the ship a bit more before reaching lower altitude. The chutes have 2 drag modes, one acts more as a drag chute then the full deployment that slows it down to its new terminal velocity. The formula for the chute is based on real physics and follows the drag equation, so the force is amplified by velocity squared. I had to cheat a little in SE and make it grab a bit faster than it would IRL due to the fact that the atmosphere height is shorter than in real life. Drag forces are also multiplied by the planets atmospheric density. If you want a softer effect you probably have to combine it with my atmospheric drag mod which applies drag to all craft in atmosphere. This is one of the main reasons you see such high g forces. There is no drag by default in SE to slow you down before the parachute takes effect. Thus the shock effect.
@@DraygoKorvan Oh wow, thanks for the explanation! I had no idea the parachute was adopted from a mod. That must have been ages ago! Regardless, it definitely works well. Maybe even a little too well :D
I usually go with the rough rule that on small grid one chute for every 10,000KG and 100,000KG for large grid at 1G. It's not exact but it's easy to work with. That usually slows down things to the point things don't take damage regardless of how the vehicle lands.
Nice data set and cool to see SE is actually reactive to proper physics.
Nicely done! Spreadsheets are fun and inspiring! Good job!
The first test looked like a terminal velocity problem - the craft will decelerate, getting closer and closer to that value - so you could do a 1000m chute opening and the results should be closer.
I love the data!
I think you're probably right! The extra deploy height doesnt really slow the craft down any more unless the previous deploy height was insufficient.
Awesome test dude. I did a somewhat simpler test to see how fast a parachute can stop a rover or ship going forward, but whipping out the spreadsheets not my thing lol. Keep it up, love the content.
That sounds awesome! I didn't even think to use parachutes to slow down forward speeding ships. I'll check out your vid!
for the last speed test, you were near a mountain so you had less room to land
I'm pretty sure the altitude takes mountains into account so it should balance out. You might be right though. We did come really close to successfully slowing down, getting all the way to 132m/s before crashing.
IIUC atmosphere density (affects decceleration & lowest speed) works off sea level altitude, but deployment height uses altitude above surface. It shouldn't make a difference in that test on EarthLike but generally dropping stuff on mountains is a bit more risky.
@@ОлегПыжков-и9б That makes sense. So pulling the chute above a mountain still has the 1000m of clearance, but starts with a lower atmosphere density due to being a bit farther from the center. Thanks for the clarification :D
Nice tests but I would have definitely set those parachute deploy heights higher to give them a chance to slow down. Your top speed test only showed you needed to deploy parachutes higher. You can slow down any speed given enough height as the parachutes are effectively indestructable!
Since a car crash is like 30 gs, this all makes sense. Also, terminal velocity on earth is 53m/s, so it makes sense the parachutes weren’t tuned for this. NASA uses different chutes for supersonic deceleration.
there is a bit of difference between a ship landing safely
and being destroyed.
in between, a ship can survive the fall, taking damage on landing but otherwise largely intact.
land safely = Y
land safely = D
land safely = N
Yes you are right about that! Previously I did classify the landing with the 1,600,000kg one as P for 'partially destroyed' but just changed it to N for destroyed for simplicity. Really to me a partially damaged ship where you survive but your cargo is sent practically in orbit from the collision is destroyed for all intents and purposes. Put it this way: if there were SE insurance, they would total the ship and I would probably *not* get any payout.
Love these types of vids.
I have a suggestion for a future space buster… is it possible to get a ship from earth to space from only the power it can generate, no reactors, batteries or capacitors. Would like to see what you can come up with.
Not Parachutes, and I'm not sure if you have done this before, but the underlying question for another Mythbusters is "How much Ice?" tldr: Large Block Build.: I'm currently building a very large ship and was wondering how much ice does it take to fill a hydrogen tank. Easy enough.. but how much of that would be used to to charge a battery from dead flat, using a hydrogen engine and therefore how much ice? are hydro engines worth it?. Is it more efficient to convert ice to hydrogen and oxygen at the same time? Also, how much ice to make a single storage tank of oxygen? Does oxygen usage in an air tight cubic space (say 100 meters squared - 10x10x10) relate to to liters at sea level IRL? Lots of questions, so might make a couple of more episodes. Many thanks, and btw, big fan of your content.
Man, thank you very much! I´m just about to design a less expensive way to return from "Pertam Orbiter" (scenario) to the ground outpost. This will definitely do the stuff!
Cheers!
Step 1: install a survival kit and wind turbine near the crash site.
Step 2: Respawn
for the sheet @19:47 you do know that 1 second =1000 milliseconds ? so if you are taking the measures every 5 ms all what you have there is 240ms not even a quarter of a second. but still it gives a good indication on what's going on there
They always let me down on a large grid.
check out John Paul Stapp ,the history guy did a video on him. "By riding the decelerator sled, in his 29th and last ride at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, Stapp demonstrated that a human can withstand at least 46.2 g" (wiki)
That's amazing! They dont specify how long he endured forces that high unless I missed it. They do mention as well that on multiple occasions, he had some serious medical problems like broken wrists, broken ribs, and bleeding retinas. Enduring high G Forces does not sound like something I want to do on a Saturday morning :D
We had a speed test during an event l hosted.
And 20 000 to 14 ms in a Split second...
Happy g forces is not in the game 😛
YESS, we stuck the landing and the ship is in one piec.... wait what do you mean respawn? CURSE YOU G FORCE MOD!!!
@@AndrewmanGaming system message: [USER] was turned into jam
@@remethepplays System Message: [USER] was turned into a decal.
I'm not safe from the G's, my spaceships usually have half a dozen parachutes for quick braking on re-entry. Why? I hate ships losing bits and pieces from landing, so I just slowly let gravity handle descent.
WHAT ARE THE SETTINGS OF YOUR WORLD ? because thrusters and parachutes behave differently with inventory size multipliers, and i'm even not sure that it is linear.
So who is gonna tell him that "milli" means one-thousanth? (There are 1000 milliseconds in one second)
I think the chute made from anything real would shred slowing that much weight that quickly. The game engine doesn't calculate any of that. Is the atmosphere thinner the higher you go? I know atmo thrusters are affected by height. You could open the chute when you hit the atmosphere. You could tell if the atmosphere at the border going from 0 Atmosphere to Sea-level amounts in a one-pixel plane or is the atmosphere less dense. if it doesn't, opening higher up would reduce the G affects.
Bro you're almost at 30k damn..
We're getting there :D
@@AndrewmanGaming yea mate
I don't know much about G force but I know more about GeForce
it probably too late to say this, and it's also probably a misinformation, because i heard that a long time ago, so no sources, but i tend to believe that we had some test of influence of excessive g- force on human body, the poor guy had to withstand something something 100 or so g-force, he's eyes popped out of the eye sockets, he broke almost, if not all bones in his body, there where a lot of internal organ damages and failures, so yep he died. Again, i remembered it vaguely, and considering how long ago i have become knowledgeable of this, i cannot exclaim that this is even remotely true.
Do me a favor, when you have a graph with a curve, show the equation for that curve.
Good call. I'm a little foggy on my calc/algebra knowledge, and by foggy I mean to say I have no idea how to calculate the slope of that curve. I'll look it up and see if I can get back to you with the slope.
@@AndrewmanGaming By the way those curves look, it seems parachutes' apply slowing force proportional to the speed they're moving. Barring the bit of time right after deployment, you have a pretty much exact exponential decay curve, which with some physics nerdery and measuring the parachute diameter can allow to estimate the atmosphere density.
Also the part where the slowing begins seems to have the same duration in time regardless of speed, meaning it's caused by the parachute opening (think about it, the devs actually simulated partially opened parachutes having less drag) and not by the atmosphere having some kind of density gradient.
@@pocarski This is good intel. I think you're probably right. To Dennis' question, I unfortunately couldnt find out how to come up with a line equation that makes sense. If you'd like to take a look at the data on Google Sheets though, I've linked it in the description.