I went with the DT 1990 Pro not only because I found them new on sale, but also because the the build quality. Really sturdy and easy to replace parts if I needed, not to mention the extra cables and case is a really nice extra.
@@LittlePlant888 I confidently will say I still love these headphones to this day. I'm someone who treats them with more care than the average person, even just how gently I take them off my head or how I set them down on my desk. Admittedly I use speakers instead sometimes to give my ears a break after multiple hours straight of wearing, and normally only use them on weekends due to my living situation. That being said, its fair to claim I have less "millage" as some others who use them heavly every day. So others' experiene may vary in terms of durability, but I have zero damage what so ever. The adjustable slides on the side are still firm, no creaking sounds when twisted, and none of the leather parts have detearated. I do admit the day I got them I swapped the stock ear pads with Dekoni aftermarket ones, so I cannot comment on the durability or comfort of the stock ones. If there is any note to make about audio quality, they have set my standard much higher for listening overall. But if I was forced to make a negative comment, I would say they could use a bit more bass, even if at the cost of "pure studio accuracy". So I personally use a Schiit Loki Mini+ EQ to bump up the bass, and also use a Schiit Magni and Modi amp+DAC combo to drive these headphones. When plugged directly into a phone, they still sounds great, but you do lose some quality and have a low max volume. TL;DR: They are great, 10/10, easily recommend these German cans. 👍
@@Cloudy_Canadian Fuck sake, have some excitement in your life. Take those headphones off the same way you'd pull down your wife's pants. Take them hard and fast, live a little. And crawl out your bubble to see the big bad world for what it is.
Same. Also I found them to be more comfortable on my head compared to the 660s. I've added a Solderdude filter and Dekoni pads to tone down the top end.
In Germany I got the Sennheiser HD 660S Apogee directly from Sennheiser for 330 €. They offers this set to university students. I think this is a amazing deal. I love these headphones.
Edit: One more thing: DT 1990s are FANTASTIC for good crossover or surround emulations. Like REALLY fantastic, they do loose sharpness by doing that too. All three of them are great choices depending on your taste. I decided on the DT1990 Pro for several reasons: I found the Sundaras to be boring. Plain and simple. They lack the sense of "being in the moment" or have some interesting tuning but they don't really feel neutral either. They have a lot of detail (so do the DT 1990) but very rolled of bass. The 1990s are also ALOT easier to modify with good results without damaging the actual structure and with the Balanced and Analytical pads it's really fun to explore differences though I would go with neither: more on that later. The HD 660 do the same thing the old 600 series does with more detail but less charming. They lack the kind of imagined analogue quality the old HDs had. After my honeymoon phase was over I simply had no use for them since every music I have sounded better on other pairs of headphones including the DT 1990s. The DT1990s don't need to have a noticeable V shaped sound. In fact I'm not the biggest fan of V shape but the amount the DT 1990s show is not something I find bad at all, especially since you can get rid of it so easily without sacrificing the strong points of the headphone unlike the Sundaras. I also hate sharp highs but the DT 1990s aren't all that bad in this department depending on pads in my possession which eliminate the sharpness of the DT 1990s to a VERY good degree. Also I often use a slightly more inaccurate high gain setting on certain amps, even though I know they are technically less accurate on those specific devices since on low gain they CAN sound sharp AND a bit hollow on some, (probably due to not satisfying the ohm rating of the DTs..) so ... maybe don't use low gain. It makes the V shape more pronounced. I also found they are tremendously versatile depending on the pads, mods or EQs you throw at them without really trading in their strong suits for it which is a character I usually find more on the Planar side of things but applies here too. There are people that disagree with me on the EQ point though, to which I can only say : maybe don't use a 5 band EQ. Not to mention that they are build like a tank wich is very very important to me. I basically chew through headphones, especially if I tend to use them as my main. No, looks do not matter to me, Quality does, though I have to confess that the DT 1990 looks the best to me, all three designs are to my liking though. My personal favorite change was the change from the stock pads to some Dekoni Pads. They completely kill the sharpness in the right regions of the fr. Saljon
Saljon think u nailed it....all 3 perform well, DT1990....similar to the old school DT880 or 990, just kinda draw me into the music more. Very well written view u had...u bring up excellent points others may overlook!
Do you recommend the 1990s for casual music listening and solo pc gaming? And do you use an amp/DAC to drive them (not sure my motherboard would be suitable)?
@@maximebense2081 PC Gaming definitely a yes, Solo or MP doesn't matter, but you have to be prepared to notice recording errors or rather: bad compression of ingame music and voice acting (an example is Skyrim, horrendous audio quality). Casual Music Listening : Well yes, BUT while I think the DT 1990 Pro are very versatile and a good listen I don't have the slightest clue of your preferences. Yes I use an AMP and I suggest for you doing the same but only AFTER you tried it with your mainboard. If it sounds fine to you work with it until you have the money freely available. The DT 1990 might be loud enough on your mainboard since I rarely find that to be a problem but it also might sound a bit hollow or sharp. I currently have a rather cheap mainboard on one of our PCs and quite frankly it's more than just a little noticeable that it doesn't sound great on it to the point that my girlfriend asked me if they were broken when she plugged them in my PC. Get something inexpensive like the Fiio E10K or K3 (try high gain on them) for the start and work yourself up if you see the need I really don't think DACs or AMPS in the thousands or even five-hundreds should even exist. You might as well burn that money at that point. 300 should be the absolute maximum that you ever pay for one and even that is not really a good purchase decision.
@@Kill0rbAg Thank you! My use of the dt 1990 would be roughly 60% of SOLO, non competitive PC gaming and 40% of casual music listening (flac, crappy mp3 and UA-cam), from chill-hop/chillwave set-lists to jazz, funk, death metal, video games OST, EDM (everything actually...) Living in France makes buying Schiit or jdslabs products very difficult and costly, the fiio k5 pro is available, but I am not sure whether I would only need an amp or and amp+dac combo.
@@maximebense2081 You might notice the faults in MP3 especially during direct comparisons but otherwise that sounds alright. (I like to suggest Tidal as a good sounding solution but not everyone likes streaming or changing the service) I live in Germany so I know what you mean but you aren't bound to any Schiit product (IMO they are somewhat overpriced anyway) An Amp will suffice. DACs aren't that important as long as your build in one isn't the lowliest DAC available. The K5 pro is mighty fine, but I always suggest that if you are on a budget spend it as follows: -First care about the headphones You still have money left? Then: -If they are low impedance check if your device has a semi competent DAC (Most Devices have) and spend a bit on that if need be. -If the headphones are high impedance or are known to be difficult to drive get an AMP If the K5 is in your budget get it. Word of advice: don't get the Topping A50. It sounds great but makes the DT1990 hollow and adds soundstage it doesn't need.
Joshua you´ve simply become my favorite reviewer. Your reviews are straight to the point, simple and very useful when it comes to making the right purchase decision. Needless to say, your videos quality is top-notch and a joy to watch! Thanks for the wonderful work you do
I bought the Hifiman Sundara after a great deal of careful consideration. I have an HD6xx and a Byerdynamics DT 770 PRO. I love the vocals of the 6xx and the lovely bass of the 770's. The Sundara is next level though, giving a very complete sound experience with a great soundstage. I have no regrets at all.
I just bought the Sundara as my entry audiophile pair, the main selling point for me was: Planar. I wanted the clarity and fast response and specially the accurate bass. I also looked for soundstage and the Sundara didn't lack that. Now my first impression "wooow bass", after the initial react I found the fr to be a bit dark, it missed the sparkle and voice clarity I was looking for and this comes suprising as some people describe them as bright, and I'm running them through a D50s + Atom which aren't speciallly warm. I'm sincerely not worried it's not something that a slight treble tilt can't fix whilst still having all the planar goodness. For my next pair I look for something that can put up more battle on a day to day basis and be analytical, the 1990 Pro fills the checks.
I love both good tight bass (not boomy) and great clarity (not sharp) at the same time. Mids don't have to be 'in the face'. So the 1990 Pro suits my taste perfectly for just about everything occasion! I don't find its treble too strong as some say but in fact it's just... nice for me. Yes a bit more higher it'll too sharp, but it's just nice. Coupled with good responsive bass... omg! Thanks for all your detailed review I finally got myself a 1990 Pro without any hesitance!
FUK YES!!!! I own the beyers and they are amazing!! I am no audiophile but I LOVE music of all genres. I came from non audiophile headphones such as sony wh1000xm3, random bluetooth headphones, crushers, sol republic master tracks etc and I've never been happier than with the 1990s. In fact I think the bass is still amazing on them. If I want pure quality I use my 1990s. If I want crazy bass n mess around I use my sony xm3 or new bluetooth skullcandy crushers just for fun.
I got the DT 1990 Pro a few days ago and I love it. 1. I chose it because I like hearing the detail in my music and will be using them in the creation of animation and videos game music and sounds. 2. I did not consider the other ones however after seeing your video I can tell the DT 1990 Pro would still have been my choice. I didn't realise until I got them how much I love hearing the details in music. Also the DT 1990 Pro is built like a tank, all my old headsets got trashed (pieces coming of breaking) through normal use one during my time in animation studio in university one from my streaming and few outside uses. I wanted, needed, something tough. 3. Yes looks do matter to me I love having technology that's not only good but looks good. However it doesn't factor into my final choice, quality and performance are the most important to me.
I learn over the time ( past 20 years , I'm 34) that for me nr 1 is the comfort !! No matter how good the hp sounds , how is suppose to wear them ? So ; 1. Comfort ( large and soft ear cups , that doesn't get hot , dont touch the ears , no hot spots on the headband ) 2. Audio quality 3. Weight 4. Materials , build quality 5. Aesthetics/ style
@@nhatlam96 mmm in theory yes but in real life is different, let me explain , if the ear cup is big and comfy soft ,no hot spots on the headband but they are 500g I still take them every day over ones that weight only 200g but the cups are very very small , the clams force kills me and the head band have hot spots , so weight is relative doesn't really goes neck to neck with comfort
I couldn't live with those beyer treble cannons. Ive had the 660s for over a year now without any issues at all. I find the tuning to be perfect for an open back. Only one thing I would change is that I wish the soundstage was a bit wider
Answering your question at the end; I picked the Sundara for a few reasons. I've had the 58x and was told the 660S wasn't very far away from it so I wanted to try something else. Also, I like slightly bright headphones and both you and Metal raved about the treble of the Sundara (currently loving it). Despite loving my DT990, the price was the biggest thing that made me not go with the DT1990 (used sundaras can go for $260 and new is now always $349).
Hi Joshua I've had the 660S for about 3 years now and at the moment I drive them with the FiiO K5 Pro (which is a total recommendation I think). I've chosen these headphones because i really like this Sennheiser specific sound, this super clear mids which highlight the voices of great singers so clean and beautiful. I think they are a little bit overpriced but they are fine for me. What I like the most about them is that I can use them for everything. I use them to watch movies, listening to music and gaming. I can wear them the whole day and they still feel perfectly comfortable. When playing FPS I can hear footsteps very clear and can hear from where they come from. I understand that a lot of people find them not pleasing to look at but for me they look fine. I kinda like that techy look that Sennheiser sometimes has (HD820 are a perfect example). So for me they look fine but I don't care that much about looks of headphones. Yesterday I ordered the Sundaras and I'm looking forward to try them out. I don't know for sure but I think they are a good second pair to my 660S because they complement each other well. (this is just based on reviews, so thank you for your review ;) ) And to wrap this long essay up I can say that I have no regrets buying the 660S, for me they are a recommendation for everyone, so give them a try, maybe you will fall in love with them like I did.
Hi, please help me! I have been choosing headphones for a very long time and can't decide between: 560s, 660s, sundara, K712 pro, LCD 1, 1990. I select headphones for: 1. Mixing music 2. Games (R6 siege) the steps and the scene are very important. 3. Watch movies and listen to music (almost all genres, but I don't like electronic music, I like electric guitar, jazz and more.)
@@dixienormous5453 Racism to the Russians? I understood... in fact, I read and chose everything a long time ago, and also ordered DT1990 headphones. And it was just fun to correspond with you once a day. :)
I've been debating which headphone to buy for a while now. The 3 you list here were all on my list. I ended up buying the Sundara. I really liked the sound and they fit my head perfectly. Very comfortable. Got a great deal through my dealer. $350 Canadian. 1 year warranty. Hopefully, I won't need it. I've heard the same about the material quality issues as well. Apparently, Hifiman have made some subtle changes for the better.
2 more things about the DT1990pro, they are very Track dependent, if the track is poorly mastered, it can get pretty harsh, but for track that is well mastered, it's a joy to listen to. For DT1990pro user I recommend listening to Childish Gambino, he not only mix and master using dt1990pro, he also daily drive it and his musics are very enjoyable on the 1990pro. The Dt1990pro also scale very well with better amplification, I recently upgraded from an Aune x1s to a Aune s7 and the sound overall improved quite a bit, it's a bit wider, and have more details.
I've watched this video several times to help make my decision on which to buy. I ended up going with the 1990's, and I LOVE them. So thank you for being a huge influence on my purchase! My headphone collection goes as follows: 58x, 6xx, 4xx, 177x GO, and now the 1990's. It's definitely a welcome addition, and are now my daily drivers. I love planars as well (have a weakness for my 4xx's), and have been in hot internal debate on settling for the sundara's instead, but the 1990 won me over. I just appreciate the fact that you can mix/master music, enjoy casual listening, as well as game casually and competitively on the 1990's. They're all rounder beasts, and I have no regrets. The Sundara's still pique my interest, but I'm also planning on buying LCD 2C's real soon, so I may settle for those instead. The trifecta for me would be my 6xx, 1990, and soon to be LCD 2C's. I do also hope that I get to demo the 660's at some point, cause I do love the Sennheiser sound.
@@AustinKim-yj8gx Hey! So I don't mix nor master music, but I would recommend DT 1990's purely for the fact that they're made for mixing and mastering music. Detail retrieval on the 1990's are phenomenal (from my limited experience). From what I know, LCD-2C's are more for the enjoyment of music itself rather than working with music. I'm not familiar with sonarworks and if it'd have any effect on which headphone(s) you decide on, but I still say 1990's! Goodluck with your search!
I’ve had the 660s and I really liked it. In the end I switched to the DT1990, because the sound of the DT1990 is more ‘agressive’. In my opinion it’s better for electronic and house music.
Zeos is kind of an idiot who doesn't have great ears and doesn't understand fairly basic audio enthusiast things like damping factor and impedance. I strongly advise taking anything he says with a spoonful of salt.
@@alondite215 calling him "kind of an idiot" is very harsh,he has his unique style and gives good advice.However like no headphone is perfect, also same applies to reviewers. That's why I am subscribed to a selection of channels including Zeos and Joshua to get a more balanced view.
The rhythm section in that band carried the other members on their shoulders. Also, very good mix engineer who managed to make Pages playing sound way more solid than the isolated tracks.
After watching this comparison I decided to go for the 660s and the 1990 pro. Now I am using them both for about a year and won't sell any of them. Everything Joshua is saying about the sound characteristics can be confirmed. I am listening a lot to newer classical music recordings (24 bit PCM and DSD64 - DSD256) and here the 1990 pro absolutely outperforms. At the same time I am a heavy Spotify consumer. For long hours listening sessions (mostly while I am programming) I wouldn't like to miss the 660s, which sound is super friendly to the ears. Among the two headphones I'd say may usage ratio is 70% 660s and 30% 1990 pro.
I have all three. Each are special at what they do. None are weak at anything and all provide a enjoyable listening experience. The build quality of the Beyerdynamic is exceptional. The Sundara is the most comfortable. The 660 I have just received yesterday so I am still evaluating. It’s clamping force is a little tight but as you say will probably get more comfortable over time. Vocals are amazing and it definitely shines and benefits from better equipment. The Sundara are the brightest ant also need power and the right equipment to bring out their qualities. Bottom line I’m keeping all three.
@@kingo5940 I still have all three. To be honest I don’t usually sell off any of my headphones so if I keep them past the allotted return period then they are keepers. None of the three get used a lot but that’s do to the quantity of headphones I have. Which did you go with and what do you think of your decision?
@@whn2309 im currently still looking but u think ill go with the bd`s. if you wanna know why. i think they look cool, the sound seems like the best of all 3 and especially for producing music (which i do) + i think about buying an SMSL SH-6 AMP if im going to buy the 1990s
the sundara sounded great as most reviewers said. unfortunately, my larger than average head made them borderline unbearable to wear for over an hour, and my jaw would end up being sore for few hours after taking them off. returned them for the m1070 and im really happy with that decision. The clamp, which many people complained about, is perferct for me.
I'm the exact same. I bought a pair a few weeks ago and I really wish I could've kept it but I could always feel the headband digging into my skull and it was getting really distracting. I'm glad I'm not alone.
@@DatNapk1n47 HiFiMan HE400SE with simple band is very comfortable. Cheap as chips though in comparison to these. Slightly worse tuning than the Sundara (vs Harmon curve) but still very good (scores 86 vs 96).
For me there is a fine line between how good the headphone looks. In the case of these three they all look good enough that I would put looks all the way at the bottom of my priority
I had to spend over 5.000 on headphones just to go back for HD660s sound. I guess i have to pay to realized that for my self. Some was better on something but none of them was good on everything like HD660s are.
Re: Appearance factor... It was one of the main factors why I own a Klipsch Heritage HP-3, alongside Z's review. It also sounds heavenly. BTW is that one on your to-do list? ;)
Since I watched your review of the DT 1990 I made my choice and I do not regret it even a moment. The kind of music I listen to is metal and classic music. Since I am not into vocals I abandoned the idea of the Senh. Really happy with my purchase also this headphones are build like a tank.
Your opening is a perfect statement of why I love trying lots of different bits of kit; why I love rolling tubes into my Freya+, etc. And why i love buying different pressings of the same records. The rush of discovery of hearing something new, some nuance or detail in a recording with which you thought you were already intimately familiar.
I've considered exactly these models for my next purchase, ending up with choosing the sundara. Sundara was best for me thanks to openness and soundstage. I am not a fan of Sennheiser sound signature, while I was scared of the 1990 treble exaggeration. As for look, yes I was tempted by the 1990 but I used my brain (or I should say ears) rather my heart
Just wanted to say a thank you for this review. I have had DT990's for about a year and a half now. While I loved them, the highs were always fatiguing and one of the things I wish wasn't there. Also, in a lesser way I wanted more bass. Not really more, but a wider sounding bass sound if that makes sense. You always feel like you're taking a gamble on purchasing audio equipment, especially when I'm hours away from the nearest store that would even let me try stuff out. I almost bought the DT1990's, but after watching this, and other reviews/comparisons I purchased the Sundara's instead. I have to say I'm so pleased. I still have the detail that I like, but without the piercing highs, and I have a more, personally enjoyable, bass and lows. The vocals are even a bit warmer which I'm happy about. Thanks again
If you spend an afternoon EQ'ing those DT990's you have, you'll fall in love with them. You're 100 % right - The high's are piercing, to the point of nearly causing tinnitus, and the bass is somewhere, just not audible, lol. With something like equalizer apo + peace plug-in(free stuff), then EQ them based on oratory1990 EQ profile (a quick google search, should find on reddit). You'll then be running them with the Harman curve, and can go from there. It's nice that you can make it a global EQ setting as well, so everything you hear sounds better. I have the closed back version, the dt770's, and I had to EQ them right away, else they were going back. The high's are just way to much for me without EQ.
@@RADERFPV Appreciate this reply. I just now saw it. I gave my DT990's to my mom. When she was over for the holidays, everytime I turned around she was wanting to just sit and listen to music. She is 65 and love music, but this was her first experience with anything at an Audiophile level. As I said, I have my sundara's, but they leak sound bad enough that at night, my wife doesn't like me listening to them, because she hears everything and can't sleep. So I bought some DT770's and I really enjoy them for what they are. I have gotten the different sound profiles for Equalizer APO including a few others. I'm still kind of picking and choosing which I like better. Those those sound profiles help so much. They bring life to everything. I'm still working on the 770's to get them where I want. I'm finding the Low's are hardest for me atm. I love the punchy-ness of the bass but it almost sounds like the bass sound is narrow? Does that make sense? Lots of bass, but its just sound and not as clear. Anyawys, still working it out. I don't have as much time as I would like. Ok, long enough reply. Cheers.
Hi, Sundara Owner here. (In reference to @12:20) I've dropped mine a few times (oops) and they've held up so far. i think i've dropped them maybe around 10 times from 1meter/3feet onto a carpeted floor. Cheers!
Me watching this about $500 headphones on my SPH9500's LOL. Seriously tho the 9500 just might be THE best deal in headphones! When the music came in at 6:41 I actually jumped because i thought someone came up behind me talking! Josh you have the highest quality audio on UA-cam for real. Just stellar
I got the Sennheiser HD660s when I went to a music gear convention last year. Sennheiser and Beyer were the only brands that showcased expensive headphones during that show (the rest were musical instruments and recording equipment which I almost considered buying over headphones lol). I got the HD660s because I couldn't find Beyer's booth and I really wanted to own a product from the HD6xx line. There's just something about the way it looks that really catches my attention. I wasn't able to demo it properly due to the noise and the lack of proper equipment such as DAC/Amps. This was my first headphone that's over 200 USD and I had no idea about the Sundara and DT1990. Despite hearing good things about the DT1990 and Sundara, I decided not to sell my headphones and switch to those because I think the HD660s is good enough for both my listening and professional use.
I have both Sundara and HD660s in my house. Both of them are fine, and unless you like to listen to classical music a lot, HD660s will do the job great (even though I listen to classical music on HD660s every day, and it's awesome, it's just Sundara has a bit of an edge there imo)
I've been. using DT880 Pro's (250 ohms) for several years now, and am quite happy with them. I'd love to hear the DT1990 Pros. Years ago, I almost always used Koss Pro 4 double and triple 'A's. I decided I wanted something lighter and more comfortable.I liked the sound, but I found them heavy and hot. I also had an issue with a channel going out after a while. This even happened with my Pro 4AAt (titanium), which appears to no longer be made. The ear pads tended to go flat, too. When I first heard them, I loved the sound, Before I bought the 889s. I was going to get the DT 770s but many reviews reported the left channel going out. With my 880s, the left channel went out once, but I sent it Beyer and they had it back to me working and with new pads in less than a week. I practice bass and guitar using a Sans Amp and a pedal board. These sound good for that. They have no problem with the low B on my 5 string bass.
Extremely helpful Josh, and I do have to lean on reviewers like you since my Orlando market lacks dedicated audio stores. I’m leaning Sundara for the sound profile you describe and because it would allow a future upgrade to a balanced amp, unlike the DT1990. But, the DT may better fill a hole in my collection for that SQ and a little voice tells me I won’t be satisfied until I spend closer to $800 so... paralysis grips me for now.
Two things that are secondary to music, but still important for me, is looks (I video call occasionally for work) and how accurately it portrays the locations of noises in video games (especially footsteps and gunfire) as one of the uses will absolutely be gaming. I would love to see a test where someone runs around you in COD (warzone is free) and you try to guess where they are: direction and distance. Headphones are constantly compared with each other, but, if you are like me and have never tried any of these three, relative descriptions are pretty useless. Comparisons need to be made to a known truth, and I think when describing soundstage, a video game like COD would be the perfect test.
Planars are awesome! I have Sundara's and wasn't thrilled initially with them (but nor was I with any other headphone I tried tbh). I am talking here mainly about FR, everything else about them was top notch, great imaging, tight and precise bass, awesome sounding midrange for all the vocals I threw at it. I bought them specifically because I heard planars respond really well to PEQ. I am running them off my smartphone, UAPP as tidal client, DX3PRO. UAPP has this amazing feature of 6 band PEQ addon that can make these headphones sound absolutely amazing. Settings I found satisfying to warm up the sound (actually flatten the response as much as possible) and tame the treble and get the best detail possible are Hz db Q 23 4.9 0.7 69 1.3 1.3 1940 3 1.8 4840 -4.8 1.6 5780 7.4 6.1 7730 -4.4 4.3 Out of all the different amp/dac/headphone combos I have tried, I have found that planars with PEQ can sound as good as it gets. I don't listen to them as often as I would love to (I spend most of the time with my lxmini's) but every so often I find the song that I really want to hear detail from, I plug in the Sundara's. DX3PRO can drive them to decent levels with high dynamic range stuff on high gain without damaging my hearing. For most of the new stuff, low gain does the job. As an audiophile it's kinda disappointing that I have found combination so good that I can't even force myself to justify going further into the audiophile rabbit hole. That is now exclusive for speakers and home theater. I couldn't recommend more Sundara's / UAPP combo, I don't think dac / amp combo could bring as much benefit and I found DX3PRO very good all around, with all the features I could possibly need.
@Christopher Sadler they are definitely lacking bass, rolloff starts around 120hz and they are at least -5db down at 20hz. I gave them 5db, fairly wide low shelf boost around 25hz, and drivers are handling it like a champ, no sign of distortion and the bass sounds much fuller. But yeah, without eq they do sound like most of the open back headphones in the bass department.
When I'm comparing similar headphones I start with deal-breakers. For me it would be sibilance or too hot treble, or not enough or flabby bass. Everyone will have different deal breakers but it's a good place to start.
I have had both the Sundara and 660s for a few weeks. I much prefer the 660s as their high bass to mids and vocals is just superior. The Sundara has a bigger sound that is smoother and I use them more for instrumentals/orchestra type stuff. I have both EQd to the latest Oratory settings which bring them both to 96/100 (If I remember correctly) preference score. Sundaras have a big accurate neutral sound that to me doesn't provide the enjoyment the 660s do. The 660s also has INSANE imaging. Like noticing something above and behind you at range type imaging. They are both great and different enough where I can see someone keeping both. Sundaras might be made of metal but I question its reliability. No one is going to question how long a Sennheiser will last. Oh and you can easily lay down with a 660s. The Sundara doesn't have much clamp and the pads a bit slippery so it just rolls back when you lay down. Keeping the 660s and returning the Sundara before the return period. Most likely for a DT1990.
You need to replace your sundaras with the hifiman edition xs, I DID. TRUST ME, it's not even close. The sound is better in every aspect. I never looked back.
I had the Tygr 300r for 2 years, and recently picked up open box/used Sundara and 6xx. Loving this trio, you did a great job articulating their differences, and I can't see myself picking anything else up for a long, long time.
I would love to see a comparison between the LCD-x and the Arya. You have them both on your hall of fame and I cant really find any videos or forum threads that directly compare the 2.
He reviewed Arya AFTER lcd-x and put "THE BEST...so far" in the title of his Arya review. Use your brains and stop making this stupid request over and over again! I am pretty certain Josh thinks the same as me and that is why he never responded.
Derek W Stop being an ass! He is asking a comparaison between these 2 not a review which are already present! And honestly i would love to see a comparaisons too!
@@littlefaa6134 Start using your brain! Arya is the best so far according to Josh! This means Arya is the best out of all the headphones he had already reviewed including LCD-X. Thus, LCD-X is worse COMPARED to Arya. How hard is it to understand? Even teachers will be ass if children want everything told and refuse to think at all.
When selecting headphones I’m looking for my music to sound musical. I want to enjoy it. As a musician I believe the search for reference gear is a fools errand. I would choose the sundaras as well.
Kind of funny. I want to greatly enjoy my music, but for me I get enjoyment from hearing every little detail, every nuance and texture to an extreme extent. So I'd end up going with the DT 1990s.
I have the 6xx. It was my first set of nice headphones and I chose it mostly because it seemed like a great price and I wanted to start with a dynamic before venturing into planar, electrostatic, etc. I really like them for just about everything, but being my only set of nice headphones, I don't get to compare them to others often. I have to co-workers with Sundaras that I got to compare with and while I like the sound characteristics of my Senns, I can't drive them as loud on some music as they can drive the Sundaras. Some very bass-heavy tracks, and some of the Hans Zimmer stuff (eg Mountains from Interstellar) can have some distortion at high volumes. That being said, and I know its an over-used word, the Senns sound warmer to me than the Sundaras. I'd like to get a second pair of headphones at some point that do some things that my Senns can't do. I make music so I'm leaning toward the DT1990 right now, but I'd like to listen to a pair and compare them. Not sure where I could do that these days though. Loved the video! Very helpful. Thank you!
I have the SUndaras and DT´s, to me the Sundaras Sound like Dt´s but with a super slight feeling of beeing in a tube shaped hall. The Dt´s Sound a bit wider and clearer in seperation to me. The Bass i find is a tad more present in the Sundaras. Details like a string or humming sound in the background jump on me with the DT´s, while with the Sundaras while there i often overhear these. Personaly I find the DT´s to sound, most of the time, like I am actually in the Studio with the Artist or Orchestra while with the Sundaras i feel like i just walked out of the room and remembering what i heard in there. Or other with the Sundaras it feels like a really good recording while with the DT´s it still needs to be Masterd if that makes sense. Lookwise the DT´s win by a mile for me. But i really dont care luckily i want comfort and amazing sound. Sadly i dont find either provide that 100%, both are compfy, Sundaras a bit more on the head, DT´s a bit more on the ear, for me. The way pads are attatched to both makes me worry a lot, especially with the Sundaras, but im neither a fan of the DT way of attachment^^. I like the Soundstage and seperation of the DT´s The Bass of the Sundaras, even tho both feel kinda muted and i would like just a lottle bit more exitement. About clarety im still unsure because with the DT´s it feels a bit forced while the Sundaras feel a bit muted to me, Is there a HF that you could recomend i should test if i would think of upgradeing? Love the Content you supply, hope to hear a answer. Ps: Please anyone feel free to answer and have a good day.
I think we have similar ears and taste. Focal Elex checks all the boxes you mentioned minus the soundstage bit. It has that excitement factor of DT series and the technicality matching that of modern planars. I suggest you check it out. Currently in stock to ship right away on Drop too. Know that Elex has had less than phenomenal track records when it comes to QC, but it does come with 2-year warranty. Also, they had $100 discount sometimes around November last year, either during Audio Week or Black Friday, so if you are interested, I suggest you wait a bit to see if they do it again this year.
You made my mind up for me. I’m gonna use the DT’s for gaming too and I want that presence of feeling like I’m there in the game, and hopefully I’ll get that with the dt’s. That’s what a lot of people say anyway, I will obvs listen to music and stuff too
Thanks for your reviews! I ended up going with the 1990 and have been blown away. After a week of listening I put my 6xx back on and they sounded super flat, lol. The amount of detail and resolution on these cans is awesome, and exactly what I was looking for. Thanks again!
aaron.gormley is it harsh like others say? i think even other beyer models, people say they are bright. I have the 650 but wanted to try a different one
To answer some of your questions: personally, I care a little bit about the aesthetics as I have an overall aesthetic with my current home setup. So that's a factor I put in play, but it would be at the bottom of my checklist. As for what I'm looking for, after doing vast amounts of research from your videos, DMS, Z, etc., I told myself I had enough awareness of what I was looking for based on what I like from what I listen to (vocals, clarity and good imaging with instruments, and just an overall good set of cans to play competitively on PC), so I went ahead and tested the HD 660s with a Simaudio Amp/Dac and that was truly an experience to me to set a benchmark to go off of. Next, I ordered a pair from Amazon alongside the Dt 1990s to test them back to back between a Schiit stack and a THX AAA 789 and just let my ears guide my decision on what I'll keep and what I'll return. It's good to get an opinion of things from someone else, but one's ultimate deciding factor should be their listening experience with what they think will match or exceed their audio expectations!
Personally, if I was to get another headphone, I would probably go with either the 660S or the 1990. For two reasons. I like tubes. I already have a pair of open-back planar. That said, I would probably going to go with the 660S. I enjoy my PXC550 and my HD1. I am typically more of an IEM person. I went a different route and got the SendyAudio Aiva's. I watched many videos (including this one) and listened to a good amount of music with them. I wear them at the office, wear them at home. They have hardly been taken off. I have been fighting through headaches from the pressure. In the Aiva's defense, even the SHP9500 cause me headaches. This is why I am normally an IEM person.
Owned the Hifiman Sundara for more than a year now, right before your review came up was the time i bought it iirc. Everything about is simply fantastic, the sound, the build and comfort of the headband and the cups, with the EXCEPTION of the earpads. Hifiman has given me basically no problem/trouble other than the fact that of 3 Hifiman headphones I've owned (2 HE400i, and my current Sundara) their earpads just start falling apart, like literally. The earpads will somehow, even if I treat them like my babies, the leather on them just falls apart, not snow flaking, but just coming off the pad ring itself.
Honestly, I would like all three of those and would find it really hard to choose one. However I can see myself choosing one of those eventually. Admittedly I have just bought the AKG K712 Pro and although wasn't quite sure on the first day, after getting the settings right I'm liking it a lot more now. Mainly bought it for Bass guitar practicing, all kinds of music playback and monitoring. When using the K712 Pro with the dedicated headphone socket on my Mark Bass combo amp, the output powers the K712's fantastically and my Musicman Sterling bass guitar sounds incredible catching every nuance of the resonating strings - some other devices however may require a headphone amp as the outputs aren't quire strong enough (i.e. BOSS Micro BR-80). Hardly notice the K712's sitting on the head as they're lightly distributed around the head and incredibly comfy.
@@turkishultranationalist ? I have all 5 and 6 series from Senn and I am 99% sure that 660S have better resolution, better imaging than any other . This has been also said by a lot of people on Headfi forum. 650 are just smoother with veil thats nice for old recoding's
I chose the DT 1990 Pro for the purpose of music production, also due to your original review. On top of that the build quality makes them more of an investment for me than the Sundara, which I never owned, but the review didn't sound promising. And yes, the looks matter!
For me, I’d go for the Sundara, I’ve always wanted electrostatics for their clarity and precision, and it’s the right price point. Looks don’t matter at all to me, comfort and sound quality are the most important factors. I like a warm sound with a little bass extension.
no looks dont really matter to me. I had the 1990 and the 660s, picked the 660, because it fits better and I prefer the smoother sound over the 1990. Added leather pads from Dekoni to boost bass
I picked the Sundara, based on pretty much universally good reviews. I love classical music, especially "big" pieces like Mahler's Symphony No. 1, Saint Saens' Symphony No. 3, and Beethoven's Symphony No. 9. Organ music does very well on the Sundaras. Vocals, particularly female vocals, are as forward as I would ever want them. And the texture of the sax line in Pink Floyd's "Us and Them" is almost touchable, it's just so good. I'm sure there are better phones out there. But none of them are at a price that I could afford without winning the lottery. At some point, I may pick up other phones to have different sound colorations as an option. But for an "only" headphone, the Sundaras do nearly everything well, and nothing badly. I'm delighted with mine.
I tried the Sundara in a direct comparison with HD660s..and in my opinion the 660s is really aweful if you hear it side by side. The sound is muffled and the imaging bad compared to the Sundara! The Sundara sounds great, neutral, extremely detailed, open and lively..
Duration of wear : they weigh nothing and you can forget they're on your head. Minimal to no headphone fatigue for me personally. The frame doesn't have a built in side to side swivel. But the frame is flexible itself and will still form to your head correctly. Sound quality: best headphones I've ever used. I don't have a higher point of comparison. But theyre leagues above he400i's and hd660's. Complaints:I have ears so big they edge on Dumbo jokes. The cup size is actually amazing for someone like me. But the driver protective cloth can brush my ears every so often. And that's annoying af. I would say get thicker pads if you run into this. But the prominent companies don't make the egg shape in pads. Also don't wear them right out of the shower (even when you're dry) a little bit of in ear water will vibrate violently from them.
Sir. You need to update this review. The hifiman edition xs, is a huge improvement in sound quality over the sundara. And, as a result, is better than ALL three headphones in your review. Regards. Brad
In my opinion 1 - Comfort / Sound are EQUALLY important. I bought a Meze 99 Classics but couldn't stand the pressure on my ears even for 15 min, so I returned within 2 days. I really wanted to keep it, because the sound was kinda different, but nice, but really couldn't. I see very heavy headphones being a problem here as well 600g+. 2 - Looks / Market value - Right now I have an AEON 2 Closed Back, and i don't dig it much in terms of look, but the comfort is amazing, and the sound is decent, so I kept it. 3 - Connectors - This is not a deal breaker, but can be an annoyance. Dan Clark Audio (Mr Speakers) headphones use that damn Hirose connector that nobody else does. If they wanted to go fancy, why not using mini XLRs that other companies like Audeze use? Otherwise you are very limited when choosing after market cables for your cans. 4 - Portability and efficiency - I couldn't care less for both. I only hear to music on my headphones at my desk at work or on my desktop PC at home. I have an Asgard 3 and a Drop 789 to handle my cans, so I really don't mind anything that is hard to drive. Portability is not an issue as well, because I don't see audiophile grade headphones as portable. Carrying DSPs on your pocket, connectors and whatnot, totally defeats the purpose of portability. Grab something like a Sony WH1000XM3 and be happy. Out of the 3 on the list, the Sundara would hurt my ears, therefore: OUT. I can't for the love of me handle sharpness or brightness so the 1990 are OUT. The Senns make the most sense to me, and even if they are not the best value out of the 3, that's what I'd get (I would get none really because I also have the HD6XX, but you got my point).
I'd like to get the Sundaras, but man, those reviews of quality control issues are scaring me away. Update: Decided to get the 6xx for $200 on Drop. I think these will do me just fine...for now :D
Really informative and enjoyable review thanks Joshua. I'd choose the Sundara as I listen to a variety of music styles and I don't want to buy too many headphones and keep alternating. Re looks: they all look "good enough" where it doesn't factor in my decision. The 660S are a little aggressive and not appealing like the others, but if I were prioritising their vocal strengths it wouldn't factor.
Hey there, nice review! My Sundaras makes a popping noise on drum sounds when I turn the volume up a lot. Could it be that I do something wrong or might there be an issue with the headphone?
Like every driver, dynamic or planner, they all have displacement limits and once they reach the limit they distor. Again amps when pushed to clipping will make ugly cracking like noise distortions on transients.
660S is really natural, clean, warm Sennheiser sound with far less veil than the other 600s. Highly recommend you skip the 600 and 6xx and go straight for the 660s if you're considering Sennheiser. Sundara is a very good value, especially if you want to get into planars. Exceptional detail retrieval and tuning but they are really better at orchestral, classical, and jazz, and they are not ideal for rock music. At least not compared to my DT 1990s (stock B pads) which far outclass any of these headphones in punch, slam, dynamics, musicality, and fun. The DT 1990s are my overall favorite.
How are you finding the timbre on the 660s in comparison to the 600? I find it to be very monotone. Every instrument sounds the same and has a slight metallic quality to them. That's my biggest issue with this headphone. The second one being the muted treble in the 12-15 khz region that makes it sound a bit dead and lifeless. The 600 series headphones are renowned for their natural and lifelike rendition of music. Sadly, the 660s doesn't meet these criteria for me.
I chose the hd 660s as I already owned beyer 990s and thought they were a little too bright, so wanted to try something different also I liked the open back look of the 660s very cool
Big warning about sundara. Sound quality is good for the price for sure but built quality is complete crap. First cushions went broke after few months use, then i started to hear crack noice from other ear cup (wasnt hair or anything), after that i got new headphones but all took very long time. Now cable went broke and they doesnt give me new, answer was just: buy a new one. So thats it for me, never hifiman again, ever.
Josh I really love some of your choices for video music. Its an interesting genre that sounds amazing through my Hifiman Planars. Could you point me in any direction I will take it from there...Chillstep? Thank You!
I just got the Sundara and, after comparing them with various competitors, I came to agree with you. I really like them. However, I have been using them without an amp so far, and suspect that they could benefit from being paired with one. I was wondering what your recommendation would be.
@@Queefy My impressions have not changed. The Sundara headphones tick many boxes for me. In my view they are the best for the price (by far) in terms of sound experience, comfort and overall quality. I was very disappointed by the competitors, to which I have given a try. I would not recommend any - even though they often come highly recommended, including the likes of Shure, Sennheiser and Beyerdynamics. In my view, none of these compare well against the Sundara. Of course, ultimately, there is an element of subjectivity. Some prefer bad wines :-) Depending on your configuration, you may want to pair the Sundara with a good amplifier, e.g. the Monoprice Monolith 887 THX AAA.
Hey Josh. I found your channel right as I was getting into audio about a month ago and I literally had to decide between these three headphones. I ultimately went with the Sundara's because of a couple things. The looks were a huge factor, but also they were slightly cheaper at $350 (as opposed to the DT 1990's). I really want the DT 1990 Pro's as well. I'm glad I picked the Sundara's as well.
It‘s quite fun how you point out the „negatives“ of the 1990 Pro‘s, e.g. them pointing out all the mistakes and errors in music, and I simultaneously approve them and love them for these points. Have been running them for 1.5 years and I hope they‘ll last for years more to come, seriously don‘t want to miss out on them.
And to answer your questions: I don‘t care about looks when deciding at all, but I love the 1990s for their optics and build quality. For me personally, Sennheiser lacks the insane detail, precision and analytic sound signature of the beyers, I‘m simply not into intimidating vocals. Sadly, I haven‘t had the chance of trying the Sundora yet, only had the HE-4XX running for a week, but sent them back. Neither did they do anything better than my cheaper DT 990 Pro‘s (which they would‘ve replaced else) nor was I happy with build quality, mine had a broken arm that didn‘t stay in it‘s position, so my headphones would keep unadjusting themselves. So as a conclusion, I‘d greatly appreciate testing the Focal Elex for planars and following your advice to go test the Sunduras, but I‘m perfectly happy with soundstage, clarity, details, punch, speed and the more or less analytic sound of my 1990s. (Schiit Magni/Modi Stack, both rev. 3)
@@TechEtrix I have both the DT1990 and Sundaras. The DT1990 are definitely more detailed in the higher frequencies. I'd say the sundaras are more pleasant for listening to music while the DT1990s are better when composing. Both are really good imo and you can't go wrong with either. I didn't own the HD660s, but I did test them and they didn't wow me like those two did, but maybe that's just because I did not have the chance to use them long term.
Since you asked nicely: (1) Yes, I have to admit that the design of the 1990s made me fall in love with them and I'd almost buy them just for that. (2) Design aside, the way you describe them makes me think I want them most out of the three of these. I did a little bit of rock music mixing a decade ago, and I kinda want my headphones to be as honest as possible (without being brutal). When you say they sound analytical and neutral that where I go "awww yea". That being said, I don't own them yet, was close to pulling the trigger a couple of times, but as of right now I decided to wait a little longer, since I just moved and might be looking at unexpected expenses. I do own the 990 Pros and 770 Pros already so I'm not set up all that badly, but I believe from reviews that the 1990s will be a significant upgrade nonetheless. Thanks for the insightful reviews / comparisons. Keep it up!
@@Cons2911 No, but they do have that peak around 8k. I'm mitigating that with a software EQ and then they are pretty amazing. Would probably do the same on the 1990s.
The Sim Channel thanks, i just got a focal elegia (they went on sale), but i am almost certain i would return it. Either i get a sundara (which adorama don’t offer anymore) or a dt 1990 or maybe just return it for a refund. Always wanted a beyer, and yeah eq is one way to get around it. Got the elegia for 400 so i would need to fork out 200 more (or wait for a sale). Wish i could audition it before buying.. do stores allow returning twice (return elegia and possibly return the 1990) without you shouldering the shipping?
@@Cons2911 I think that really depends on the store ;-) In Europe, Amazon, for example, is very lenient when it comes to returns. Others will have you pay the shipping every time. I do second your desire to audition the headphones first, but that only works in dedicated hifi stores, and they don't typically have the ones I'm interested in in store ;-)
Very helpful, thanks! To answer your questions: 1) I was agonising between the 660 S and the Sundara. I am choosing the Sundara because I want to write big orchestral film score stuff like Hans Zimmer or Two Steps from Hell, and the Sundara's sound stage and improved bass response seems like the winner at this price point for those 'big sounds'. Sundara is also ~£250 here in the UK vs ~£350 of the 660 S, and I think the Sundara might actually be marginally better on balance. 2) I'm getting into music production and I've been using some HyperX Cloud 2 USB gaming headphones up until now. I know the difference is going to be night and day, especially with an amp. 3) Looks are irrelevant, I just want to be pragmatic and get the best sound, followed closely by build quality and comfort. Don't understand all these comments about the visuals/aesthetics of things they can't see when they're using, and are spending hundreds on specifically for how they *sound*.
I considered all 3 of these before eventually purchasing my HD 660S about a year ago. I've been unable to find a place to try out the Sundara, but because of the common QC issues, I decided to just forget about it. At first I wanted to purchase the 6XX, but when I found out about the 660S, I decided that I should go audition it alongside a few options before I made my decision. So first I compared the 600/650/660S, which quickly made the 660S worth the extra cost for me. Then I auditioned a bunch of alternative brands in the
my dt 1990 pro's with the dekoni pads (hybrid) have been amazing. these pads definitively adds more "musicality" and "oomph" to these headphones. I also enjoy the analytical pads they came with but these changed the game for me. to summarized it simply: analytical pads = being outside in the cold with naught but a shirt and underwear and feeling the cold attentive wind touching every detail in my body. an experience to behold for some time, but perhaps not always. dekoni pads (hybrids)= warm and full by the fireplace just enjoying the crackling of charred wood in the fireplace. A familiar and warm place where i can stay put for hours. With the dekonis, i basically have 3 different headphones in one with my dt 1990pro's.
J S interesting point that DT1990 sounded better, but your attn was drawn more to the micro-details , and less on the music! As a treblehead...i agree...i am drawn to the treble sparkle, microdetails...on my cans and IEMS...it can be overwhelming at times....sometimes fatiguing for long listening periods....thx for opening my ears up, been thinking of the Senns Hd58x, Hd6xx...for a more well rounded sound signature and listening experience....guess it does not hurt to have a few diff type of cans or IEMs that sound completely diff, but all sound great, depending on your mood and genre of music u r playing. I currently have the vintage DT880, and K701....thinking the Senns would be a perfect option! Thank u!
@@jamesbittle2138 I've gone overboard and got a THX AAA 789 + SDAC-B driving them haha. Definitely not something they need, but the exceptional transparency of that combo does show a subtle, but worthwhile improvement over my previous gear (JDS Labs The Element).
@@JSym92 Interesting. I am considering both the EL Stack and something from Drop. Many people really like tube amps with Sennheisers. I have a Jotenheim w/Balanced DAC and I don't love it with the 660s; it's a little too clinical for my tastes.
The best option is to buy all 3 headphones and experience the pleasure of hearing your favourite music presented in different flavours. Isn't that the reason why we enjoy buying new headphones? Picking a single headphone is a little like trying to pick one pair of shoes for all your needs. Hiking boots vs casual shoes vs running shoes... each have their own purpose.
Of those three...it really comes down to like you said, what you looking for the most. The 660s would be my choice if I had to pick. But for me, the 58x with a Schiit stack is still the best setup for headphones for me. I need the look of the 600 series ..it's my favorite look of headphones..need the sub-bass and buttery mids with clarity in the highs. And with the Schiit stack adding more resolution for the highs without killing off the sub-bass ...means it creates the best setup for me for trance/ house, rnb, and even Hans Zimmer tracks.
Picked up my 1990 pros a few days ago from newegg for $390. I love them put simply. The imaging on them is phenomenal for gaming. I got them to compare to my 560 s/ tygr 300r/ 58x. The 1990 pros beat them all easily. Runner up being the 560 s.
Currently own the 58x so 660 is out. Vocals are in your face and claustrophobic. Also the veil is real. Still a great starter headphone which will cause you to appreciate audiophile headphones and spend more money. They do sound good though especially for their price. Plan to pass them on to spread the audio bug. Purchased Sundara and had channel imbalance from the second I plugged them in. Returned and cost me $25 in shipping ordered from their site. They did sound good though. Knew about possible QC issues and played the game and lost. No Hifiman for me. Actually returned my Arya's for fear of future issues. Amazing set of cans. Wanted to keep them, but didn't want a $1600 paperweight with my luck. Always loved the looks of the DT 1990 so bought a pair to try out. We shall see in a week if I love or hate them. Will return if I hate the treble. I have found you can only tell if you try a HP for yourself. Everyone hears different and has different DAC/AMP setups. Hope they live up to my expectations. Still looking for a reliable planar to add to the collection. Seems like Planars in general are fragile.
For me it is a toss up between 1990 and 660s. I like the build of 1990 and studio ability, although I think the 660s would be awesome for studio use as well. I know I love vocals, so the 660s is a win there. Timbre is very important to me, and I know the 660s nails that, so that's a plus. Also, style is pretty important to me. I do wear open backs in public sometimes, but even if I didnt style is still pretty big. The 660s. Is more stylish in my opinion, and definitely the most comfortable headphone I have used! I haven't tried the 1990 so who knows what that would win at. But I lean toward the 660s I guess
Have been seeing very little of Audio Technica R70x and AKG K712 lately. No matter what anyone say, Drop is huge influence in Headphone coverage these days. For the ones on that table, Id pick the Sundara as it fits the sound profile of my current daily, Sony MDR MA900, while on build, definitely, definitely matters, as even if I know it sounds good on sundara, i mich prefer and feel confident wearing the 1990 on any scenario, desktop use, on couch with long cable to my amp, or on my bed at night.
I've tried all of these too. My least favourite was the 660S, my unit creaked really badly and wasn't very comfortable for me. Sound was good though, but yes quite different. Current favourite is the Sundara (I had to replace the pads with some Dekoni Velour though, personal preference but I didn't like the stock hybrid pads) Edit: I've now upgraded to the Ananda, much prefer it due to the larger ear cup size (I have large ears). Great sound too of course! But more pricey
Purchased the Sundara from Amazon UK at a steal price of £149. Have a topping A Dx3 pro+ and a Qudelix 5K to try them with. Excited, they get delivered in 3 days. Hope I'm not disappointed.
06:40 scared the living hell out of me...
SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME
Fuck me, I was listening to this review in the background and this scared me big time.
lol..why?
@@badhabit714 that girl came out of fkn nowhere. sounded like she was walking up behind me Dx
came here to comment this...middle of the night and I ripped my headphones off my head so fast looking around for a little demon child behind me lol
I went with the DT 1990 Pro not only because I found them new on sale, but also because the the build quality. Really sturdy and easy to replace parts if I needed, not to mention the extra cables and case is a really nice extra.
I know this is an old comment, but how are the DT 1990 pros treating you nowadays? Would you still recommend buying them after all this time?
@@LittlePlant888 I confidently will say I still love these headphones to this day. I'm someone who treats them with more care than the average person, even just how gently I take them off my head or how I set them down on my desk.
Admittedly I use speakers instead sometimes to give my ears a break after multiple hours straight of wearing, and normally only use them on weekends due to my living situation. That being said, its fair to claim I have less "millage" as some others who use them heavly every day. So others' experiene may vary in terms of durability, but I have zero damage what so ever. The adjustable slides on the side are still firm, no creaking sounds when twisted, and none of the leather parts have detearated.
I do admit the day I got them I swapped the stock ear pads with Dekoni aftermarket ones, so I cannot comment on the durability or comfort of the stock ones.
If there is any note to make about audio quality, they have set my standard much higher for listening overall. But if I was forced to make a negative comment, I would say they could use a bit more bass, even if at the cost of "pure studio accuracy". So I personally use a Schiit Loki Mini+ EQ to bump up the bass, and also use a Schiit Magni and Modi amp+DAC combo to drive these headphones. When plugged directly into a phone, they still sounds great, but you do lose some quality and have a low max volume.
TL;DR: They are great, 10/10, easily recommend these German cans. 👍
@@Cloudy_Canadian Fuck sake, have some excitement in your life. Take those headphones off the same way you'd pull down your wife's pants. Take them hard and fast, live a little. And crawl out your bubble to see the big bad world for what it is.
Same. Also I found them to be more comfortable on my head compared to the 660s. I've added a Solderdude filter and Dekoni pads to tone down the top end.
In Germany I got the Sennheiser HD 660S Apogee directly from Sennheiser for 330 €. They offers this set to university students. I think this is a amazing deal. I love these headphones.
Edit: One more thing: DT 1990s are FANTASTIC for good crossover or surround emulations. Like REALLY fantastic, they do loose sharpness by doing that too.
All three of them are great choices depending on your taste.
I decided on the DT1990 Pro for several reasons:
I found the Sundaras to be boring. Plain and simple. They lack the sense of "being in the moment" or have some interesting tuning but they don't really feel neutral either. They have a lot of detail (so do the DT 1990) but very rolled of bass.
The 1990s are also ALOT easier to modify with good results without damaging the actual structure and with the Balanced and Analytical pads it's really fun to explore differences though I would go with neither: more on that later.
The HD 660 do the same thing the old 600 series does with more detail but less charming. They lack the kind of imagined analogue quality the old HDs had.
After my honeymoon phase was over I simply had no use for them since every music I have sounded better on other pairs of headphones including the DT 1990s.
The DT1990s don't need to have a noticeable V shaped sound.
In fact I'm not the biggest fan of V shape but the amount the DT 1990s show is not something I find bad at all, especially since you can get rid of it so easily without sacrificing the strong points of the headphone unlike the Sundaras.
I also hate sharp highs but the DT 1990s aren't all that bad in this department depending on pads in my possession which eliminate the sharpness of the DT 1990s to a VERY good degree.
Also I often use a slightly more inaccurate high gain setting on certain amps, even though I know they are technically less accurate on those specific devices since on low gain they CAN sound sharp AND a bit hollow on some, (probably due to not satisfying the ohm rating of the DTs..) so ... maybe don't use low gain. It makes the V shape more pronounced.
I also found they are tremendously versatile depending on the pads, mods or EQs you throw at them without really trading in their strong suits for it which is a character I usually find more on the Planar side of things but applies here too. There are people that disagree with me on the EQ point though, to which I can only say : maybe don't use a 5 band EQ. Not to mention that they are build like a tank wich is very very important to me.
I basically chew through headphones, especially if I tend to use them as my main.
No, looks do not matter to me, Quality does, though I have to confess that the DT 1990 looks the best to me, all three designs are to my liking though.
My personal favorite change was the change from the stock pads to some Dekoni Pads. They completely kill the sharpness in the right regions of the fr.
Saljon
Saljon think u nailed it....all 3 perform well, DT1990....similar to the old school DT880 or 990, just kinda draw me into the music more. Very well written view u had...u bring up excellent points others may overlook!
Do you recommend the 1990s for casual music listening and solo pc gaming? And do you use an amp/DAC to drive them (not sure my motherboard would be suitable)?
@@maximebense2081
PC Gaming definitely a yes, Solo or MP doesn't matter, but you have to be prepared to notice recording errors or rather: bad compression of ingame music and voice acting (an example is Skyrim, horrendous audio quality).
Casual Music Listening : Well yes, BUT while I think the DT 1990 Pro are very versatile and a good listen I don't have the slightest clue of your preferences.
Yes I use an AMP and I suggest for you doing the same but only AFTER you tried it with your mainboard.
If it sounds fine to you work with it until you have the money freely available.
The DT 1990 might be loud enough on your mainboard since I rarely find that to be a problem but it also might sound a bit hollow or sharp. I currently have a rather cheap mainboard on one of our PCs and quite frankly it's more than just a little noticeable that it doesn't sound great on it to the point that my girlfriend asked me if they were broken when she plugged them in my PC.
Get something inexpensive like the Fiio E10K or K3 (try high gain on them) for the start and work yourself up if you see the need I really don't think DACs or AMPS in the thousands or even five-hundreds should even exist. You might as well burn that money at that point. 300 should be the absolute maximum that you ever pay for one and even that is not really a good purchase decision.
@@Kill0rbAg Thank you! My use of the dt 1990 would be roughly 60% of SOLO, non competitive PC gaming and 40% of casual music listening (flac, crappy mp3 and UA-cam), from chill-hop/chillwave set-lists to jazz, funk, death metal, video games OST, EDM (everything actually...)
Living in France makes buying Schiit or jdslabs products very difficult and costly, the fiio k5 pro is available, but I am not sure whether I would only need an amp or and amp+dac combo.
@@maximebense2081
You might notice the faults in MP3 especially during direct comparisons but otherwise that sounds alright. (I like to suggest Tidal as a good sounding solution but not everyone likes streaming or changing the service)
I live in Germany so I know what you mean but you aren't bound to any Schiit product (IMO they are somewhat overpriced anyway)
An Amp will suffice. DACs aren't that important as long as your build in one isn't the lowliest DAC available.
The K5 pro is mighty fine, but I always suggest that if you are on a budget spend it as follows:
-First care about the headphones
You still have money left? Then:
-If they are low impedance check if your device has a semi competent DAC (Most Devices have) and spend a bit on that if need be.
-If the headphones are high impedance or are known to be difficult to drive get an AMP
If the K5 is in your budget get it.
Word of advice: don't get the Topping A50. It sounds great but makes the DT1990 hollow and adds soundstage it doesn't need.
Joshua you´ve simply become my favorite reviewer. Your reviews are straight to the point, simple and very useful when it comes to making the right purchase decision. Needless to say, your videos quality is top-notch and a joy to watch! Thanks for the wonderful work you do
I bought the Hifiman Sundara after a great deal of careful consideration. I have an HD6xx and a Byerdynamics DT 770 PRO. I love the vocals of the 6xx and the lovely bass of the 770's. The Sundara is next level though, giving a very complete sound experience with a great soundstage. I have no regrets at all.
I agree, I had own the HD 650 for a while. After hearing the speed of the Sundara's, I realized they are on another level.
Agree
I just bought the Sundara as my entry audiophile pair, the main selling point for me was: Planar. I wanted the clarity and fast response and specially the accurate bass. I also looked for soundstage and the Sundara didn't lack that. Now my first impression "wooow bass", after the initial react I found the fr to be a bit dark, it missed the sparkle and voice clarity I was looking for and this comes suprising as some people describe them as bright, and I'm running them through a D50s + Atom which aren't speciallly warm. I'm sincerely not worried it's not something that a slight treble tilt can't fix whilst still having all the planar goodness. For my next pair I look for something that can put up more battle on a day to day basis and be analytical, the 1990 Pro fills the checks.
Do you have both now? If so, which do you prefer
I love both good tight bass (not boomy) and great clarity (not sharp) at the same time. Mids don't have to be 'in the face'. So the 1990 Pro suits my taste perfectly for just about everything occasion! I don't find its treble too strong as some say but in fact it's just... nice for me. Yes a bit more higher it'll too sharp, but it's just nice. Coupled with good responsive bass... omg! Thanks for all your detailed review I finally got myself a 1990 Pro without any hesitance!
FUK YES!!!! I own the beyers and they are amazing!! I am no audiophile but I LOVE music of all genres. I came from non audiophile headphones such as sony wh1000xm3, random bluetooth headphones, crushers, sol republic master tracks etc and I've never been happier than with the 1990s. In fact I think the bass is still amazing on them. If I want pure quality I use my 1990s. If I want crazy bass n mess around I use my sony xm3 or new bluetooth skullcandy crushers just for fun.
hey I was looking for an upgrade for my dt990, which pads do y'all use? balanced or analytical
I got the DT 1990 Pro a few days ago and I love it.
1. I chose it because I like hearing the detail in my music and will be using them in the creation of animation and videos game music and sounds.
2. I did not consider the other ones however after seeing your video I can tell the DT 1990 Pro would still have been my choice. I didn't realise until I got them how much I love hearing the details in music. Also the DT 1990 Pro is built like a tank, all my old headsets got trashed (pieces coming of breaking) through normal use one during my time in animation studio in university one from my streaming and few outside uses. I wanted, needed, something tough.
3. Yes looks do matter to me I love having technology that's not only good but looks good. However it doesn't factor into my final choice, quality and performance are the most important to me.
I learn over the time ( past 20 years , I'm 34) that for me nr 1 is the comfort !! No matter how good the hp sounds , how is suppose to wear them ? So ;
1. Comfort ( large and soft ear cups , that doesn't get hot , dont touch the ears , no hot spots on the headband )
2. Audio quality
3. Weight
4. Materials , build quality
5. Aesthetics/ style
@@nhatlam96 mmm in theory yes but in real life is different, let me explain , if the ear cup is big and comfy soft ,no hot spots on the headband but they are 500g I still take them every day over ones that weight only 200g but the cups are very very small , the clams force kills me and the head band have hot spots , so weight is relative doesn't really goes neck to neck with comfort
I couldn't live with those beyer treble cannons. Ive had the 660s for over a year now without any issues at all. I find the tuning to be perfect for an open back. Only one thing I would change is that I wish the soundstage was a bit wider
Bought my 660s from Amazon 2 weeks ago for £370 and now down to £309...and I waited for months before deciding..just as well they sound so good
Answering your question at the end; I picked the Sundara for a few reasons. I've had the 58x and was told the 660S wasn't very far away from it so I wanted to try something else. Also, I like slightly bright headphones and both you and Metal raved about the treble of the Sundara (currently loving it). Despite loving my DT990, the price was the biggest thing that made me not go with the DT1990 (used sundaras can go for $260 and new is now always $349).
In Europe, Sundara costs 350 and DT 1990 are 440. Having that in mind, would you still pick the Sundaras?
Hi Joshua
I've had the 660S for about 3 years now and at the moment I drive them with the FiiO K5 Pro (which is a total recommendation I think). I've chosen these headphones because i really like this Sennheiser specific sound, this super clear mids which highlight the voices of great singers so clean and beautiful. I think they are a little bit overpriced but they are fine for me. What I like the most about them is that I can use them for everything. I use them to watch movies, listening to music and gaming. I can wear them the whole day and they still feel perfectly comfortable. When playing FPS I can hear footsteps very clear and can hear from where they come from. I understand that a lot of people find them not pleasing to look at but for me they look fine. I kinda like that techy look that Sennheiser sometimes has (HD820 are a perfect example). So for me they look fine but I don't care that much about looks of headphones. Yesterday I ordered the Sundaras and I'm looking forward to try them out. I don't know for sure but I think they are a good second pair to my 660S because they complement each other well. (this is just based on reviews, so thank you for your review ;) )
And to wrap this long essay up I can say that I have no regrets buying the 660S, for me they are a recommendation for everyone, so give them a try, maybe you will fall in love with them like I did.
Hi, please help me! I have been choosing headphones for a very long time and can't decide between: 560s, 660s, sundara, K712 pro, LCD 1, 1990.
I select headphones for:
1. Mixing music
2. Games (R6 siege) the steps and the scene are very important.
3. Watch movies and listen to music (almost all genres, but I don't like electronic music, I like electric guitar, jazz and more.)
@@dixienormous5453 no
@@dixienormous5453 toxic
@@dixienormous5453 toxic x2
@@dixienormous5453 Racism to the Russians? I understood... in fact, I read and chose everything a long time ago, and also ordered DT1990 headphones. And it was just fun to correspond with you once a day. :)
I've been debating which headphone to buy for a while now. The 3 you list here were all on my list.
I ended up buying the Sundara. I really liked the sound and they fit my head perfectly. Very comfortable. Got a great deal through my dealer. $350 Canadian. 1 year warranty. Hopefully, I won't need it. I've heard the same about the material quality issues as well. Apparently, Hifiman have made some subtle changes for the better.
Steve Fick 350 cad is pretty good, who’s your dealer?
2 more things about the DT1990pro, they are very Track dependent, if the track is poorly mastered, it can get pretty harsh, but for track that is well mastered, it's a joy to listen to. For DT1990pro user I recommend listening to Childish Gambino, he not only mix and master using dt1990pro, he also daily drive it and his musics are very enjoyable on the 1990pro. The Dt1990pro also scale very well with better amplification, I recently upgraded from an Aune x1s to a Aune s7 and the sound overall improved quite a bit, it's a bit wider, and have more details.
I've watched this video several times to help make my decision on which to buy. I ended up going with the 1990's, and I LOVE them. So thank you for being a huge influence on my purchase!
My headphone collection goes as follows: 58x, 6xx, 4xx, 177x GO, and now the 1990's. It's definitely a welcome addition, and are now my daily drivers. I love planars as well (have a weakness for my 4xx's), and have been in hot internal debate on settling for the sundara's instead, but the 1990 won me over. I just appreciate the fact that you can mix/master music, enjoy casual listening, as well as game casually and competitively on the 1990's. They're all rounder beasts, and I have no regrets.
The Sundara's still pique my interest, but I'm also planning on buying LCD 2C's real soon, so I may settle for those instead. The trifecta for me would be my 6xx, 1990, and soon to be LCD 2C's. I do also hope that I get to demo the 660's at some point, cause I do love the Sennheiser sound.
@@AustinKim-yj8gx Hey! So I don't mix nor master music, but I would recommend DT 1990's purely for the fact that they're made for mixing and mastering music. Detail retrieval on the 1990's are phenomenal (from my limited experience). From what I know, LCD-2C's are more for the enjoyment of music itself rather than working with music. I'm not familiar with sonarworks and if it'd have any effect on which headphone(s) you decide on, but I still say 1990's! Goodluck with your search!
I’ve had the 660s and I really liked it. In the end I switched to the DT1990, because the sound of the DT1990 is more ‘agressive’. In my opinion it’s better for electronic and house music.
I bought the 660S while on our honeymoon in Germany in Dec. I picked it since I wanted something really fkn good and it was highly recommended by Zeos
Zeos is kind of an idiot who doesn't have great ears and doesn't understand fairly basic audio enthusiast things like damping factor and impedance. I strongly advise taking anything he says with a spoonful of salt.
@@alondite215 calling him "kind of an idiot" is very harsh,he has his unique style and gives good advice.However like no headphone is perfect, also same applies to reviewers. That's why I am subscribed to a selection of channels including Zeos and Joshua to get a more balanced view.
"the 1990s pickup on mistakes you usually wouldn't pick up on the first time" *listens to jimmy page shredding*
The rhythm section in that band carried the other members on their shoulders. Also, very good mix engineer who managed to make Pages playing sound way more solid than the isolated tracks.
After watching this comparison I decided to go for the 660s and the 1990 pro. Now I am using them both for about a year and won't sell any of them. Everything Joshua is saying about the sound characteristics can be confirmed. I am listening a lot to newer classical music recordings (24 bit PCM and DSD64 - DSD256) and here the 1990 pro absolutely outperforms. At the same time I am a heavy Spotify consumer. For long hours listening sessions (mostly while I am programming) I wouldn't like to miss the 660s, which sound is super friendly to the ears. Among the two headphones I'd say may usage ratio is 70% 660s and 30% 1990 pro.
Smart
If you could only purchase one, would it be the 660s or 1990?
I have all three. Each are special at what they do. None are weak at anything and all provide a enjoyable listening experience. The build quality of the Beyerdynamic is exceptional. The Sundara is the most comfortable. The 660 I have just received yesterday so I am still evaluating. It’s clamping force is a little tight but as you say will probably get more comfortable over time. Vocals are amazing and it definitely shines and benefits from better equipment. The Sundara are the brightest ant also need power and the right equipment to bring out their qualities. Bottom line I’m keeping all three.
thx, can you please tell me again after +2 years how you think of the 3? :)
@@kingo5940 I still have all three. To be honest I don’t usually sell off any of my headphones so if I keep them past the allotted return period then they are keepers. None of the three get used a lot but that’s do to the quantity of headphones I have. Which did you go with and what do you think of your decision?
@@whn2309 im currently still looking but u think ill go with the bd`s. if you wanna know why. i think they look cool, the sound seems like the best of all 3 and especially for producing music (which i do) + i think about buying an SMSL SH-6 AMP if im going to buy the 1990s
oh and ofc the buildquality seems way better and sturdier
the sundara sounded great as most reviewers said. unfortunately, my larger than average head made them borderline unbearable to wear for over an hour, and my jaw would end up being sore for few hours after taking them off. returned them for the m1070 and im really happy with that decision. The clamp, which many people complained about, is perferct for me.
big brain
I'm the exact same. I bought a pair a few weeks ago and I really wish I could've kept it but I could always feel the headband digging into my skull and it was getting really distracting. I'm glad I'm not alone.
@@DatNapk1n47 HiFiMan HE400SE with simple band is very comfortable. Cheap as chips though in comparison to these. Slightly worse tuning than the Sundara (vs Harmon curve) but still very good (scores 86 vs 96).
For me there is a fine line between how good the headphone looks. In the case of these three they all look good enough that I would put looks all the way at the bottom of my priority
Agree, non of them are horrendous comparatively.
I had to spend over 5.000 on headphones just to go back for HD660s sound. I guess i have to pay to realized that for my self. Some was better on something but none of them was good on everything like HD660s are.
Love my 660s. Enjoy putting them on every single time!
you try the lcd series? I thought they were a upgrade to the hd660s
@@ightimmaheadout290 lcd 2c and was amazing, but i prefer 660s most if the times.
I love my pair. Simply wonderful
@@Tyler-gv6zf Truth is that i like other headphones also very much , butnif i had to choose only one. HD660s it is.
06:40 fuck man that heart attack almost killed me
OMFG SAME
literally wtf, watching this for the third time and it still scares the shit out of me
hahahaha same! i though i heard a ghost..
@@missmataleo so so scary xd
disliked that indeed
Re: Appearance factor... It was one of the main factors why I own a Klipsch Heritage HP-3, alongside Z's review. It also sounds heavenly. BTW is that one on your to-do list? ;)
That b-roll. I want to appreciate your effort and detail :)
Since I watched your review of the DT 1990 I made my choice and I do not regret it even a moment. The kind of music I listen to is metal and classic music. Since I am not into vocals I abandoned the idea of the Senh. Really happy with my purchase also this headphones are build like a tank.
Your opening is a perfect statement of why I love trying lots of different bits of kit; why I love rolling tubes into my Freya+, etc. And why i love buying different pressings of the same records. The rush of discovery of hearing something new, some nuance or detail in a recording with which you thought you were already intimately familiar.
within reason I'm not driven by looks; as a starter in this field, I go with the "Jack of all trades"; thanks for a highly insightful analysis
Your intro music is always worth a visit.
I've considered exactly these models for my next purchase, ending up with choosing the sundara. Sundara was best for me thanks to openness and soundstage. I am not a fan of Sennheiser sound signature, while I was scared of the 1990 treble exaggeration. As for look, yes I was tempted by the 1990 but I used my brain (or I should say ears) rather my heart
@Open-minded World - two years and they are still in perfect condition
Just wanted to say a thank you for this review. I have had DT990's for about a year and a half now. While I loved them, the highs were always fatiguing and one of the things I wish wasn't there. Also, in a lesser way I wanted more bass. Not really more, but a wider sounding bass sound if that makes sense. You always feel like you're taking a gamble on purchasing audio equipment, especially when I'm hours away from the nearest store that would even let me try stuff out. I almost bought the DT1990's, but after watching this, and other reviews/comparisons I purchased the Sundara's instead. I have to say I'm so pleased. I still have the detail that I like, but without the piercing highs, and I have a more, personally enjoyable, bass and lows. The vocals are even a bit warmer which I'm happy about. Thanks again
If you spend an afternoon EQ'ing those DT990's you have, you'll fall in love with them. You're 100 % right - The high's are piercing, to the point of nearly causing tinnitus, and the bass is somewhere, just not audible, lol. With something like equalizer apo + peace plug-in(free stuff), then EQ them based on oratory1990 EQ profile (a quick google search, should find on reddit). You'll then be running them with the Harman curve, and can go from there. It's nice that you can make it a global EQ setting as well, so everything you hear sounds better. I have the closed back version, the dt770's, and I had to EQ them right away, else they were going back. The high's are just way to much for me without EQ.
@@RADERFPV Appreciate this reply. I just now saw it. I gave my DT990's to my mom. When she was over for the holidays, everytime I turned around she was wanting to just sit and listen to music. She is 65 and love music, but this was her first experience with anything at an Audiophile level. As I said, I have my sundara's, but they leak sound bad enough that at night, my wife doesn't like me listening to them, because she hears everything and can't sleep. So I bought some DT770's and I really enjoy them for what they are. I have gotten the different sound profiles for Equalizer APO including a few others. I'm still kind of picking and choosing which I like better. Those those sound profiles help so much. They bring life to everything. I'm still working on the 770's to get them where I want. I'm finding the Low's are hardest for me atm. I love the punchy-ness of the bass but it almost sounds like the bass sound is narrow? Does that make sense? Lots of bass, but its just sound and not as clear. Anyawys, still working it out. I don't have as much time as I would like. Ok, long enough reply. Cheers.
I bought the DT 1990s. They look the best and is built like a tank.
they have garbage comfort though. :P
@@MyouKyuubi that's your opinion. They are decently weighted and I game with them for hours on end. I forget they're even there.
@@JumboRelic Do you have smol ears?
@@MyouKyuubi No. But I also changed out the ear pads when I got them like I do with every new pair of headphones.
Hi, Sundara Owner here. (In reference to @12:20) I've dropped mine a few times (oops) and they've held up so far. i think i've dropped them maybe around 10 times from 1meter/3feet onto a carpeted floor. Cheers!
Which of these 3 headphones is more suitable for Classic Rock/Metal/Jazz music?
I would guess the Sundara. All of those genres can benefit from a big sound stage
Me watching this about $500 headphones on my SPH9500's LOL. Seriously tho the 9500 just might be THE best deal in headphones! When the music came in at 6:41 I actually jumped because i thought someone came up behind me talking! Josh you have the highest quality audio on UA-cam for real. Just stellar
They're like $74 on Amazon right now, seems like a great deal for them.
I got the Sennheiser HD660s when I went to a music gear convention last year. Sennheiser and Beyer were the only brands that showcased expensive headphones during that show (the rest were musical instruments and recording equipment which I almost considered buying over headphones lol). I got the HD660s because I couldn't find Beyer's booth and I really wanted to own a product from the HD6xx line. There's just something about the way it looks that really catches my attention. I wasn't able to demo it properly due to the noise and the lack of proper equipment such as DAC/Amps. This was my first headphone that's over 200 USD and I had no idea about the Sundara and DT1990. Despite hearing good things about the DT1990 and Sundara, I decided not to sell my headphones and switch to those because I think the HD660s is good enough for both my listening and professional use.
I have both Sundara and HD660s in my house. Both of them are fine, and unless you like to listen to classical music a lot, HD660s will do the job great (even though I listen to classical music on HD660s every day, and it's awesome, it's just Sundara has a bit of an edge there imo)
I've been. using DT880 Pro's (250 ohms) for several years now, and am quite happy with them. I'd love to hear the DT1990 Pros. Years ago, I almost always used Koss Pro 4 double and triple 'A's. I decided I wanted something lighter and more comfortable.I liked the sound, but I found them heavy and hot. I also had an issue with a channel going out after a while. This even happened with my Pro 4AAt (titanium), which appears to no longer be made. The ear pads tended to go flat, too. When I first heard them, I loved the sound, Before I bought the 889s. I was going to get the DT 770s but many reviews reported the left channel going out. With my 880s, the left channel went out once, but I sent it Beyer and they had it back to me working and with new pads in less than a week. I practice bass and guitar using a Sans Amp and a pedal board. These sound good for that. They have no problem with the low B on my 5 string bass.
Extremely helpful Josh, and I do have to lean on reviewers like you since my Orlando market lacks dedicated audio stores. I’m leaning Sundara for the sound profile you describe and because it would allow a future upgrade to a balanced amp, unlike the DT1990. But, the DT may better fill a hole in my collection for that SQ and a little voice tells me I won’t be satisfied until I spend closer to $800 so... paralysis grips me for now.
Two things that are secondary to music, but still important for me, is looks (I video call occasionally for work) and how accurately it portrays the locations of noises in video games (especially footsteps and gunfire) as one of the uses will absolutely be gaming. I would love to see a test where someone runs around you in COD (warzone is free) and you try to guess where they are: direction and distance. Headphones are constantly compared with each other, but, if you are like me and have never tried any of these three, relative descriptions are pretty useless. Comparisons need to be made to a known truth, and I think when describing soundstage, a video game like COD would be the perfect test.
Planars are awesome! I have Sundara's and wasn't thrilled initially with them (but nor was I with any other headphone I tried tbh). I am talking here mainly about FR, everything else about them was top notch, great imaging, tight and precise bass, awesome sounding midrange for all the vocals I threw at it. I bought them specifically because I heard planars respond really well to PEQ. I am running them off my smartphone, UAPP as tidal client, DX3PRO. UAPP has this amazing feature of 6 band PEQ addon that can make these headphones sound absolutely amazing. Settings I found satisfying to warm up the sound (actually flatten the response as much as possible) and tame the treble and get the best detail possible are
Hz db Q
23 4.9 0.7
69 1.3 1.3
1940 3 1.8
4840 -4.8 1.6
5780 7.4 6.1
7730 -4.4 4.3
Out of all the different amp/dac/headphone combos I have tried, I have found that planars with PEQ can sound as good as it gets. I don't listen to them as often as I would love to (I spend most of the time with my lxmini's) but every so often I find the song that I really want to hear detail from, I plug in the Sundara's. DX3PRO can drive them to decent levels with high dynamic range stuff on high gain without damaging my hearing. For most of the new stuff, low gain does the job. As an audiophile it's kinda disappointing that I have found combination so good that I can't even force myself to justify going further into the audiophile rabbit hole. That is now exclusive for speakers and home theater. I couldn't recommend more Sundara's / UAPP combo, I don't think dac / amp combo could bring as much benefit and I found DX3PRO very good all around, with all the features I could possibly need.
@Christopher Sadler they are definitely lacking bass, rolloff starts around 120hz and they are at least -5db down at 20hz. I gave them 5db, fairly wide low shelf boost around 25hz, and drivers are handling it like a champ, no sign of distortion and the bass sounds much fuller. But yeah, without eq they do sound like most of the open back headphones in the bass department.
thank you, i was waiting for this comparative. Excellent video as always, greetings.
When I'm comparing similar headphones I start with deal-breakers. For me it would be sibilance or too hot treble, or not enough or flabby bass. Everyone will have different deal breakers but it's a good place to start.
For me, the main deal-breaker is Quality control and a peace of mind. So, probably won't dive into Hifiman anytime soon.
The vocal production on your videos is next level. Content creators, take note.
I have had both the Sundara and 660s for a few weeks. I much prefer the 660s as their high bass to mids and vocals is just superior. The Sundara has a bigger sound that is smoother and I use them more for instrumentals/orchestra type stuff. I have both EQd to the latest Oratory settings which bring them both to 96/100 (If I remember correctly) preference score. Sundaras have a big accurate neutral sound that to me doesn't provide the enjoyment the 660s do. The 660s also has INSANE imaging. Like noticing something above and behind you at range type imaging. They are both great and different enough where I can see someone keeping both. Sundaras might be made of metal but I question its reliability. No one is going to question how long a Sennheiser will last. Oh and you can easily lay down with a 660s. The Sundara doesn't have much clamp and the pads a bit slippery so it just rolls back when you lay down. Keeping the 660s and returning the Sundara before the return period. Most likely for a DT1990.
You need to replace your sundaras with the hifiman edition xs, I DID.
TRUST ME, it's not even close.
The sound is better in every aspect.
I never looked back.
I had the Tygr 300r for 2 years, and recently picked up open box/used Sundara and 6xx. Loving this trio, you did a great job articulating their differences, and I can't see myself picking anything else up for a long, long time.
Would you have a recommendation between these 3? For mostly gaming but some music as well.
@@chancebudvarson1659I’d assume the Tygr 300 performs the best based on reviews
I would love to see a comparison between the LCD-x and the Arya. You have them both on your hall of fame and I cant really find any videos or forum threads that directly compare the 2.
He reviewed Arya AFTER lcd-x and put "THE BEST...so far" in the title of his Arya review. Use your brains and stop making this stupid request over and over again! I am pretty certain Josh thinks the same as me and that is why he never responded.
Derek W Stop being an ass! He is asking a comparaison between these 2 not a review which are already present! And honestly i would love to see a comparaisons too!
@@littlefaa6134 Start using your brain! Arya is the best so far according to Josh! This means Arya is the best out of all the headphones he had already reviewed including LCD-X. Thus, LCD-X is worse COMPARED to Arya. How hard is it to understand? Even teachers will be ass if children want everything told and refuse to think at all.
@@derekw.5108 You clearly don't understand the meaning of comparison.
@@kameruni You clearly don't use your brain just like all others who made the same request.
I love my Sundara headphones. They are great if you just wanna sit back and enjoy music. So clear and clean.
@@Queefy Yes, I highly recommend them. I do not think you will regret it.
When selecting headphones I’m looking for my music to sound musical. I want to enjoy it. As a musician I believe the search for reference gear is a fools errand. I would choose the sundaras as well.
Kind of funny. I want to greatly enjoy my music, but for me I get enjoyment from hearing every little detail, every nuance and texture to an extreme extent. So I'd end up going with the DT 1990s.
I have the 6xx. It was my first set of nice headphones and I chose it mostly because it seemed like a great price and I wanted to start with a dynamic before venturing into planar, electrostatic, etc. I really like them for just about everything, but being my only set of nice headphones, I don't get to compare them to others often. I have to co-workers with Sundaras that I got to compare with and while I like the sound characteristics of my Senns, I can't drive them as loud on some music as they can drive the Sundaras. Some very bass-heavy tracks, and some of the Hans Zimmer stuff (eg Mountains from Interstellar) can have some distortion at high volumes. That being said, and I know its an over-used word, the Senns sound warmer to me than the Sundaras.
I'd like to get a second pair of headphones at some point that do some things that my Senns can't do. I make music so I'm leaning toward the DT1990 right now, but I'd like to listen to a pair and compare them. Not sure where I could do that these days though.
Loved the video! Very helpful. Thank you!
get an amp mate
@@malnutritionboy yeah especially when alot of dac include amps
I have the SUndaras and DT´s, to me the Sundaras Sound like Dt´s but with a super slight feeling of beeing in a tube shaped hall.
The Dt´s Sound a bit wider and clearer in seperation to me.
The Bass i find is a tad more present in the Sundaras.
Details like a string or humming sound in the background jump on me with the DT´s, while with the Sundaras while there i often overhear these.
Personaly I find the DT´s to sound, most of the time, like I am actually in the Studio with the Artist or Orchestra while with the Sundaras i feel like i just walked out of the room and remembering what i heard in there.
Or other with the Sundaras it feels like a really good recording while with the DT´s it still needs to be Masterd if that makes sense.
Lookwise the DT´s win by a mile for me.
But i really dont care luckily i want comfort and amazing sound.
Sadly i dont find either provide that 100%, both are compfy, Sundaras a bit more on the head, DT´s a bit more on the ear, for me.
The way pads are attatched to both makes me worry a lot, especially with the Sundaras, but im neither a fan of the DT way of attachment^^.
I like the Soundstage and seperation of the DT´s
The Bass of the Sundaras, even tho both feel kinda muted and i would like just a lottle bit more exitement.
About clarety im still unsure because with the DT´s it feels a bit forced while the Sundaras feel a bit muted to me,
Is there a HF that you could recomend i should test if i would think of upgradeing?
Love the Content you supply, hope to hear a answer.
Ps: Please anyone feel free to answer and have a good day.
I think we have similar ears and taste. Focal Elex checks all the boxes you mentioned minus the soundstage bit. It has that excitement factor of DT series and the technicality matching that of modern planars. I suggest you check it out. Currently in stock to ship right away on Drop too. Know that Elex has had less than phenomenal track records when it comes to QC, but it does come with 2-year warranty. Also, they had $100 discount sometimes around November last year, either during Audio Week or Black Friday, so if you are interested, I suggest you wait a bit to see if they do it again this year.
You made my mind up for me. I’m gonna use the DT’s for gaming too and I want that presence of feeling like I’m there in the game, and hopefully I’ll get that with the dt’s. That’s what a lot of people say anyway, I will obvs listen to music and stuff too
Also I can get the dt’s for just £60 over the price of the sundara which are £299, so I think it’ll be worth that little price increase
@@jayden_2954 easily, 1990s are more detailed and precise headphone. much better built than sundara too.
@@jayden_2954 huh how?
Thank you so much for sharing Josh. Your video helped me a lot in choosing my new headphones. High quality videos, technically impeccable.
Thanks for your reviews! I ended up going with the 1990 and have been blown away. After a week of listening I put my 6xx back on and they sounded super flat, lol. The amount of detail and resolution on these cans is awesome, and exactly what I was looking for. Thanks again!
aaron.gormley is it harsh like others say? i think even other beyer models, people say they are bright. I have the 650 but wanted to try a different one
Senn is known for their "veiled" sound signature. They're very dependent on your dac/amp quality
To answer some of your questions: personally, I care a little bit about the aesthetics as I have an overall aesthetic with my current home setup. So that's a factor I put in play, but it would be at the bottom of my checklist.
As for what I'm looking for, after doing vast amounts of research from your videos, DMS, Z, etc., I told myself I had enough awareness of what I was looking for based on what I like from what I listen to (vocals, clarity and good imaging with instruments, and just an overall good set of cans to play competitively on PC), so I went ahead and tested the HD 660s with a Simaudio Amp/Dac and that was truly an experience to me to set a benchmark to go off of. Next, I ordered a pair from Amazon alongside the Dt 1990s to test them back to back between a Schiit stack and a THX AAA 789 and just let my ears guide my decision on what I'll keep and what I'll return.
It's good to get an opinion of things from someone else, but one's ultimate deciding factor should be their listening experience with what they think will match or exceed their audio expectations!
indeed, trying the real cans matters the most.
What did you end up liking the most ?
Personally, if I was to get another headphone, I would probably go with either the 660S or the 1990. For two reasons. I like tubes. I already have a pair of open-back planar. That said, I would probably going to go with the 660S. I enjoy my PXC550 and my HD1.
I am typically more of an IEM person. I went a different route and got the SendyAudio Aiva's. I watched many videos (including this one) and listened to a good amount of music with them. I wear them at the office, wear them at home. They have hardly been taken off. I have been fighting through headaches from the pressure. In the Aiva's defense, even the SHP9500 cause me headaches. This is why I am normally an IEM person.
Owned the Hifiman Sundara for more than a year now, right before your review came up was the time i bought it iirc. Everything about is simply fantastic, the sound, the build and comfort of the headband and the cups, with the EXCEPTION of the earpads. Hifiman has given me basically no problem/trouble other than the fact that of 3 Hifiman headphones I've owned (2 HE400i, and my current Sundara) their earpads just start falling apart, like literally. The earpads will somehow, even if I treat them like my babies, the leather on them just falls apart, not snow flaking, but just coming off the pad ring itself.
How does the he400i compare to the Sundara in sound?
best visuals in the audio reviewer game 😍
Nothing beats 1grit
Honestly, I would like all three of those and would find it really hard to choose one. However I can see myself choosing one of those eventually. Admittedly I have just bought the AKG K712 Pro and although wasn't quite sure on the first day, after getting the settings right I'm liking it a lot more now. Mainly bought it for Bass guitar practicing, all kinds of music playback and monitoring. When using the K712 Pro with the dedicated headphone socket on my Mark Bass combo amp, the output powers the K712's fantastically and my Musicman Sterling bass guitar sounds incredible catching every nuance of the resonating strings - some other devices however may require a headphone amp as the outputs aren't quire strong enough (i.e. BOSS Micro BR-80). Hardly notice the K712's sitting on the head as they're lightly distributed around the head and incredibly comfy.
Great Video , I also have to say HD660S have way better imaging from all 6 or 5 Series .
@@turkishultranationalist ? I have all 5 and 6 series from Senn and I am 99% sure that 660S have better resolution, better imaging than any other . This has been also said by a lot of people on Headfi forum. 650 are just smoother with veil thats nice for old recoding's
@@turkishultranationalist Nope. The HD660s has better imaging, a slightly wider stage, and more extension in the bass and treble.
I chose the DT 1990 Pro for the purpose of music production, also due to your original review. On top of that the build quality makes them more of an investment for me than the Sundara, which I never owned, but the review didn't sound promising. And yes, the looks matter!
For me, I’d go for the Sundara, I’ve always wanted electrostatics for their clarity and precision, and it’s the right price point. Looks don’t matter at all to me, comfort and sound quality are the most important factors. I like a warm sound with a little bass extension.
Sundara are planar magnetic headphones, not electrostatic :)
Just a heads up in case you were planning on buying them
Electrostatic ?? What ?? Sundara ??
Beware of China Hifiman build quality control. They're broke very quick.
Lol
@@midorihibiki I bought mine a year ago, not had any problems.
no looks dont really matter to me. I had the 1990 and the 660s, picked the 660, because it fits better and I prefer the smoother sound over the 1990. Added leather pads from Dekoni to boost bass
I don't look into the aesthetics as well. I only look at comfort and performance.
I’m a very aesthetics oriented guy but I will NEVER sacrifice comfort for aesthetics. Lol
You do realize that 3rd party pads completely ruin the sound with 600 series headphones?
Beyerdynamic is the choice for me.I trust my ears and my ears trust them.
This man is doing what he loves - and quite well. Thanks for the review and for helping us figure out some important decisions
I picked the Sundara, based on pretty much universally good reviews. I love classical music, especially "big" pieces like Mahler's Symphony No. 1, Saint Saens' Symphony No. 3, and Beethoven's Symphony No. 9. Organ music does very well on the Sundaras. Vocals, particularly female vocals, are as forward as I would ever want them. And the texture of the sax line in Pink Floyd's "Us and Them" is almost touchable, it's just so good.
I'm sure there are better phones out there. But none of them are at a price that I could afford without winning the lottery. At some point, I may pick up other phones to have different sound colorations as an option. But for an "only" headphone, the Sundaras do nearly everything well, and nothing badly. I'm delighted with mine.
how has it held up durability wise?
@@sahajsb2728 It's been fine. It's survived drops and normal use.
Do they need an Amp?
@@Ben-bs2tc Sundara needs an amp.
@@careylymanjonesi only have fiio q11 can it drive?
I tried the Sundara in a direct comparison with HD660s..and in my opinion the 660s is really aweful if you hear it side by side. The sound is muffled and the imaging bad compared to the Sundara! The Sundara sounds great, neutral, extremely detailed, open and lively..
I was considering the sunduras, and went with the anandas. Because I make terrible financial decisions.
Howd you like em
Duration of wear : they weigh nothing and you can forget they're on your head. Minimal to no headphone fatigue for me personally. The frame doesn't have a built in side to side swivel. But the frame is flexible itself and will still form to your head correctly.
Sound quality: best headphones I've ever used. I don't have a higher point of comparison. But theyre leagues above he400i's and hd660's.
Complaints:I have ears so big they edge on Dumbo jokes. The cup size is actually amazing for someone like me. But the driver protective cloth can brush my ears every so often. And that's annoying af. I would say get thicker pads if you run into this. But the prominent companies don't make the egg shape in pads.
Also don't wear them right out of the shower (even when you're dry) a little bit of in ear water will vibrate violently from them.
Sir.
You need to update this review.
The hifiman edition xs, is a huge improvement in sound quality over the sundara.
And, as a result, is better than ALL three headphones in your review.
Regards. Brad
Listening to this on my Sundara. Very satisfied with my purchase. Thanks Josh!
In my opinion
1 - Comfort / Sound are EQUALLY important. I bought a Meze 99 Classics but couldn't stand the pressure on my ears even for 15 min, so I returned within 2 days. I really wanted to keep it, because the sound was kinda different, but nice, but really couldn't. I see very heavy headphones being a problem here as well 600g+.
2 - Looks / Market value - Right now I have an AEON 2 Closed Back, and i don't dig it much in terms of look, but the comfort is amazing, and the sound is decent, so I kept it.
3 - Connectors - This is not a deal breaker, but can be an annoyance. Dan Clark Audio (Mr Speakers) headphones use that damn Hirose connector that nobody else does. If they wanted to go fancy, why not using mini XLRs that other companies like Audeze use? Otherwise you are very limited when choosing after market cables for your cans.
4 - Portability and efficiency - I couldn't care less for both. I only hear to music on my headphones at my desk at work or on my desktop PC at home. I have an Asgard 3 and a Drop 789 to handle my cans, so I really don't mind anything that is hard to drive. Portability is not an issue as well, because I don't see audiophile grade headphones as portable. Carrying DSPs on your pocket, connectors and whatnot, totally defeats the purpose of portability. Grab something like a Sony WH1000XM3 and be happy.
Out of the 3 on the list, the Sundara would hurt my ears, therefore: OUT. I can't for the love of me handle sharpness or brightness so the 1990 are OUT. The Senns make the most sense to me, and even if they are not the best value out of the 3, that's what I'd get (I would get none really because I also have the HD6XX, but you got my point).
I'd like to get the Sundaras, but man, those reviews of quality control issues are scaring me away.
Update: Decided to get the 6xx for $200 on Drop. I think these will do me just fine...for now :D
Good choice.
Really informative and enjoyable review thanks Joshua.
I'd choose the Sundara as I listen to a variety of music styles and I don't want to buy too many headphones and keep alternating.
Re looks: they all look "good enough" where it doesn't factor in my decision. The 660S are a little aggressive and not appealing like the others, but if I were prioritising their vocal strengths it wouldn't factor.
Hey there, nice review!
My Sundaras makes a popping noise on drum sounds when I turn the volume up a lot. Could it be that I do something wrong or might there be an issue with the headphone?
Amp might be the problem.
It's a design problem. Why the hell do all hifimans do this shit for 10 years
Like every driver, dynamic or planner, they all have displacement limits and once they reach the limit they distor. Again amps when pushed to clipping will make ugly cracking like noise distortions on transients.
660S is really natural, clean, warm Sennheiser sound with far less veil than the other 600s. Highly recommend you skip the 600 and 6xx and go straight for the 660s if you're considering Sennheiser.
Sundara is a very good value, especially if you want to get into planars. Exceptional detail retrieval and tuning but they are really better at orchestral, classical, and jazz, and they are not ideal for rock music. At least not compared to my DT 1990s (stock B pads) which far outclass any of these headphones in punch, slam, dynamics, musicality, and fun.
The DT 1990s are my overall favorite.
How are you finding the timbre on the 660s in comparison to the 600? I find it to be very monotone. Every instrument sounds the same and has a slight metallic quality to them. That's my biggest issue with this headphone. The second one being the muted treble in the 12-15 khz region that makes it sound a bit dead and lifeless. The 600 series headphones are renowned for their natural and lifelike rendition of music. Sadly, the 660s doesn't meet these criteria for me.
Got my Sundara, this video was one of the major reasons.
Thoughts on the sundara so far? And what amp did you pair it with?
I got the hd650 but i might have to get the sundara aswell
How do they run?
How do they sound while listening to trap/hiphop?
@@Lmaoeatrr They sound awesome also with hip-hop or EDM.
Thanks, Josh. Ordered the Sundara today to be delivered Monday. I considered the Beyerdynamic, but it was a little too pricey for my current budget
Hi, do you like them?
I chose the hd 660s as I already owned beyer 990s and thought they were a little too bright, so wanted to try something different also I liked the open back look of the 660s very cool
Big warning about sundara. Sound quality is good for the price for sure but built quality is complete crap. First cushions went broke after few months use, then i started to hear crack noice from other ear cup (wasnt hair or anything), after that i got new headphones but all took very long time. Now cable went broke and they doesnt give me new, answer was just: buy a new one. So thats it for me, never hifiman again, ever.
Josh I really love some of your choices for video music. Its an interesting genre that sounds amazing through my Hifiman Planars. Could you point me in any direction I will take it from there...Chillstep? Thank You!
I just got the Sundara and, after comparing them with various competitors, I came to agree with you. I really like them. However, I have been using them without an amp so far, and suspect that they could benefit from being paired with one. I was wondering what your recommendation would be.
@@Queefy My impressions have not changed. The Sundara headphones tick many boxes for me. In my view they are the best for the price (by far) in terms of sound experience, comfort and overall quality. I was very disappointed by the competitors, to which I have given a try. I would not recommend any - even though they often come highly recommended, including the likes of Shure, Sennheiser and Beyerdynamics. In my view, none of these compare well against the Sundara. Of course, ultimately, there is an element of subjectivity. Some prefer bad wines :-)
Depending on your configuration, you may want to pair the Sundara with a good amplifier, e.g. the Monoprice Monolith 887 THX AAA.
One of the best cinematography channel
Hey Josh. I found your channel right as I was getting into audio about a month ago and I literally had to decide between these three headphones. I ultimately went with the Sundara's because of a couple things. The looks were a huge factor, but also they were slightly cheaper at $350 (as opposed to the DT 1990's). I really want the DT 1990 Pro's as well. I'm glad I picked the Sundara's as well.
@@Queefy very happy actually.
It‘s quite fun how you point out the „negatives“ of the 1990 Pro‘s, e.g. them pointing out all the mistakes and errors in music, and I simultaneously approve them and love them for these points. Have been running them for 1.5 years and I hope they‘ll last for years more to come, seriously don‘t want to miss out on them.
And to answer your questions: I don‘t care about looks when deciding at all, but I love the 1990s for their optics and build quality. For me personally, Sennheiser lacks the insane detail, precision and analytic sound signature of the beyers, I‘m simply not into intimidating vocals. Sadly, I haven‘t had the chance of trying the Sundora yet, only had the HE-4XX running for a week, but sent them back. Neither did they do anything better than my cheaper DT 990 Pro‘s (which they would‘ve replaced else) nor was I happy with build quality, mine had a broken arm that didn‘t stay in it‘s position, so my headphones would keep unadjusting themselves. So as a conclusion, I‘d greatly appreciate testing the Focal Elex for planars and following your advice to go test the Sunduras, but I‘m perfectly happy with soundstage, clarity, details, punch, speed and the more or less analytic sound of my 1990s. (Schiit Magni/Modi Stack, both rev. 3)
@@TechEtrix I have both the DT1990 and Sundaras.
The DT1990 are definitely more detailed in the higher frequencies.
I'd say the sundaras are more pleasant for listening to music while the DT1990s are better when composing.
Both are really good imo and you can't go wrong with either.
I didn't own the HD660s, but I did test them and they didn't wow me like those two did, but maybe that's just because I did not have the chance to use them long term.
Since you asked nicely:
(1) Yes, I have to admit that the design of the 1990s made me fall in love with them and I'd almost buy them just for that.
(2) Design aside, the way you describe them makes me think I want them most out of the three of these. I did a little bit of rock music mixing a decade ago, and I kinda want my headphones to be as honest as possible (without being brutal). When you say they sound analytical and neutral that where I go "awww yea". That being said, I don't own them yet, was close to pulling the trigger a couple of times, but as of right now I decided to wait a little longer, since I just moved and might be looking at unexpected expenses. I do own the 990 Pros and 770 Pros already so I'm not set up all that badly, but I believe from reviews that the 1990s will be a significant upgrade nonetheless.
Thanks for the insightful reviews / comparisons. Keep it up!
The Sim Channel do you find the 990’s sharp?
@@Cons2911 No, but they do have that peak around 8k. I'm mitigating that with a software EQ and then they are pretty amazing. Would probably do the same on the 1990s.
The Sim Channel thanks, i just got a focal elegia (they went on sale), but i am almost certain i would return it. Either i get a sundara (which adorama don’t offer anymore) or a dt 1990 or maybe just return it for a refund.
Always wanted a beyer, and yeah eq is one way to get around it. Got the elegia for 400 so i would need to fork out 200 more (or wait for a sale).
Wish i could audition it before buying.. do stores allow returning twice (return elegia and possibly return the 1990) without you shouldering the shipping?
@@Cons2911 I think that really depends on the store ;-) In Europe, Amazon, for example, is very lenient when it comes to returns. Others will have you pay the shipping every time.
I do second your desire to audition the headphones first, but that only works in dedicated hifi stores, and they don't typically have the ones I'm interested in in store ;-)
That's the old revision of the Sundara I believe, based on the pads. The new revision is actually better.
YES
Very helpful, thanks! To answer your questions:
1) I was agonising between the 660 S and the Sundara. I am choosing the Sundara because I want to write big orchestral film score stuff like Hans Zimmer or Two Steps from Hell, and the Sundara's sound stage and improved bass response seems like the winner at this price point for those 'big sounds'. Sundara is also ~£250 here in the UK vs ~£350 of the 660 S, and I think the Sundara might actually be marginally better on balance.
2) I'm getting into music production and I've been using some HyperX Cloud 2 USB gaming headphones up until now. I know the difference is going to be night and day, especially with an amp.
3) Looks are irrelevant, I just want to be pragmatic and get the best sound, followed closely by build quality and comfort. Don't understand all these comments about the visuals/aesthetics of things they can't see when they're using, and are spending hundreds on specifically for how they *sound*.
I considered all 3 of these before eventually purchasing my HD 660S about a year ago. I've been unable to find a place to try out the Sundara, but because of the common QC issues, I decided to just forget about it. At first I wanted to purchase the 6XX, but when I found out about the 660S, I decided that I should go audition it alongside a few options before I made my decision. So first I compared the 600/650/660S, which quickly made the 660S worth the extra cost for me. Then I auditioned a bunch of alternative brands in the
I bought a pair of 660s recently and I am wondering what amp you are using with it.
my dt 1990 pro's with the dekoni pads (hybrid) have been amazing. these pads definitively adds more "musicality" and "oomph" to these headphones. I also enjoy the analytical pads they came with but these changed the game for me.
to summarized it simply: analytical pads = being outside in the cold with naught but a shirt and underwear and feeling the cold attentive wind touching every detail in my body. an experience to behold for some time, but perhaps not always.
dekoni pads (hybrids)= warm and full by the fireplace just enjoying the crackling of charred wood in the fireplace. A familiar and warm place where i can stay put for hours.
With the dekonis, i basically have 3 different headphones in one with my dt 1990pro's.
J S interesting point that DT1990 sounded better, but your attn was drawn more to the micro-details , and less on the music! As a treblehead...i agree...i am drawn to the treble sparkle, microdetails...on my cans and IEMS...it can be overwhelming at times....sometimes fatiguing for long listening periods....thx for opening my ears up, been thinking of the Senns Hd58x, Hd6xx...for a more well rounded sound signature and listening experience....guess it does not hurt to have a few diff type of cans or IEMs that sound completely diff, but all sound great, depending on your mood and genre of music u r playing. I currently have the vintage DT880, and K701....thinking the Senns would be a perfect option! Thank u!
@@jamesbittle2138 I've gone overboard and got a THX AAA 789 + SDAC-B driving them haha. Definitely not something they need, but the exceptional transparency of that combo does show a subtle, but worthwhile improvement over my previous gear (JDS Labs The Element).
@@JSym92 Interesting. I am considering both the EL Stack and something from Drop. Many people really like tube amps with Sennheisers. I have a Jotenheim w/Balanced DAC and I don't love it with the 660s; it's a little too clinical for my tastes.
The best option is to buy all 3 headphones and experience the pleasure of hearing your favourite music presented in different flavours. Isn't that the reason why we enjoy buying new headphones? Picking a single headphone is a little like trying to pick one pair of shoes for all your needs. Hiking boots vs casual shoes vs running shoes... each have their own purpose.
You are not very wise
Where do you keep getting your intro music, it's so good. It fits your editing style so well.
Yeah his editing style is very pristine/refined & perfectionistic, just like the music
@Leaders aA Viriya - Boss at Nova
Of those three...it really comes down to like you said, what you looking for the most. The 660s would be my choice if I had to pick. But for me, the 58x with a Schiit stack is still the best setup for headphones for me. I need the look of the 600 series ..it's my favorite look of headphones..need the sub-bass and buttery mids with clarity in the highs. And with the Schiit stack adding more resolution for the highs without killing off the sub-bass ...means it creates the best setup for me for trance/ house, rnb, and even Hans Zimmer tracks.
yeah the 6 series look beautiful, I prefer it to the clears that I currently jse
I Love my 660's. Prefer them over the 3
I have all 3, 1990s are the king here.
@@mrniehaus3588 hi. Are u sure? Just I’m choosing right now between these models and I tires! Help me. :(
Picked up my 1990 pros a few days ago from newegg for $390. I love them put simply. The imaging on them is phenomenal for gaming. I got them to compare to my 560 s/ tygr 300r/ 58x. The 1990 pros beat them all easily. Runner up being the 560 s.
I prefer 660S For the complete package, build, comfort, sound quality, Warranty, Service, looks.
Currently own the 58x so 660 is out. Vocals are in your face and claustrophobic. Also the veil is real. Still a great starter headphone which will cause you to appreciate audiophile headphones and spend more money. They do sound good though especially for their price. Plan to pass them on to spread the audio bug. Purchased Sundara and had channel imbalance from the second I plugged them in. Returned and cost me $25 in shipping ordered from their site. They did sound good though. Knew about possible QC issues and played the game and lost. No Hifiman for me. Actually returned my Arya's for fear of future issues. Amazing set of cans. Wanted to keep them, but didn't want a $1600 paperweight with my luck. Always loved the looks of the DT 1990 so bought a pair to try out. We shall see in a week if I love or hate them. Will return if I hate the treble. I have found you can only tell if you try a HP for yourself. Everyone hears different and has different DAC/AMP setups. Hope they live up to my expectations. Still looking for a reliable planar to add to the collection. Seems like Planars in general are fragile.
For me it is a toss up between 1990 and 660s. I like the build of 1990 and studio ability, although I think the 660s would be awesome for studio use as well. I know I love vocals, so the 660s is a win there. Timbre is very important to me, and I know the 660s nails that, so that's a plus. Also, style is pretty important to me. I do wear open backs in public sometimes, but even if I didnt style is still pretty big. The 660s. Is more stylish in my opinion, and definitely the most comfortable headphone I have used! I haven't tried the 1990 so who knows what that would win at. But I lean toward the 660s I guess
Actually?
The hifiman edition xs headphones ARE LIGHT YEARS better than both.
Have been seeing very little of Audio Technica R70x and AKG K712 lately.
No matter what anyone say, Drop is huge influence in Headphone coverage these days.
For the ones on that table, Id pick the Sundara as it fits the sound profile of my current daily, Sony MDR MA900, while on build, definitely, definitely matters, as even if I know it sounds good on sundara, i mich prefer and feel confident wearing the 1990 on any scenario, desktop use, on couch with long cable to my amp, or on my bed at night.
R70x is overpriced
K712 is a good one for 200 usd not more
I've tried all of these too. My least favourite was the 660S, my unit creaked really badly and wasn't very comfortable for me. Sound was good though, but yes quite different. Current favourite is the Sundara (I had to replace the pads with some Dekoni Velour though, personal preference but I didn't like the stock hybrid pads)
Edit: I've now upgraded to the Ananda, much prefer it due to the larger ear cup size (I have large ears). Great sound too of course! But more pricey
Hello! How are the Ananda now? Would you pick them over the HD660s? Good day to you
About the Sundara, did you feel any significant difference (compared to the Ananda) when it comes to the sound quality/signature?
Purchased the Sundara from Amazon UK at a steal price of £149. Have a topping A Dx3 pro+ and a Qudelix 5K to try them with. Excited, they get delivered in 3 days. Hope I'm not disappointed.