It would have been nice to know what oil/mix to stay away from. Reminds me of the old lawn boy motors people would run on 30w mix 30:1or 16:1. Mowed the lawn and cleared the block of insects.
I'd be very interested in finding out what oil that was. I've seen some "universal" works in anything oils do this as well as some dedicated boat oils when ran in air cooled 2 strokes.
Wow, that poor saw! That has to be a combo of low octane gas, cheapest 2 stroke available and a way too heavy mix? Is there any chance the M Tronic could have a fault and give too much fuel at a certain rev range?? Great to see the film of HP2 on that piston, I tried finding HP2 in NZ, and can get it for $90 a quart! Think I'll stick to Sabre for now at 40:1. Thanks Richard for another great video, these "unboxing" so to speak videos are a treat, looking forward to the 927 oil test. You are the only chainsaw channel I'm subscribed to now, love the non nonsense common sense approach. Thank You sir!
Whew that's pricey for the Honda oil. The saw ran fine (with a fresh fuel filter) when I ran it. I don't believe it was an MTronic issue. Thanks for the kind words. You'll be just fine with the Saber. It's a great oil.
1/3 white vinegar with water works good in the ultra sonic for carbon. Keep an eye on it with delicate steel parts like needle rollers because it is a mild corrosive. Definitely a good idea to run a quality motorcycle 2 stroke oil hay👍
Man that looks gross. I've had really good success with marvel mystery oil and Berryman B12 mixed in the gas when I encounter really carboned up 2 cycle engines. A few tanks of the MMO and B12 in the premix has cleaned them up a lot. Another product I've taken a very high liking to is the Redline SL1 total fuel system cleaner. I haven't really tried it in small engines, but I have had great success with it in a multitude of auto engines fixing pinging and rough running or even misfires from dirty injectors and would like to see you try it out on some small engines. It has the highest concentration of PEA of any fuel system/combustion chamber cleaner on the market as far as I know.
Richard, im writing to u from Australia, can't get any good advice over here ! My problem is a dark smudging exhaust, n yelloish tint on the cylinder on a Stihl 251 one year old running 40:1 always fresh gas 98 octane. I'm only a camper cutting down firewood for my campside only ! I'm not running the saw extensively . Should i just run the saw on 50:1 only. As I'm not running the saw very hard at all ,maybe its not burning up the rich oil mixture ??? Kindly advise, thanking you for your time in advance regards Gunter
Great video and dissection. If the bar is any indicator, I’m going to guess the oil for mix was the cheapest that could be found. Hats off to Stihl, that saw was probably still running due to M-tronics and quality air filter.
hello Richard very interesting video thank you sir I noticed that my old husqvarna chainsaw was in a state almost like the video I passed a bottle of motomix stihl because the dealer had more aspen, incredible it’s not badly decreased , yet the motomix has oil hp ultra the worst in carbon thermal as you said it seems to me that very pure alkilate gas cleans everything can you one day make a test with aspen 2 on a well-soiled machine thank you in advance and congratulations for what you share
I use a local company that makes their own chemicals. It's called Burst. It's closer to something like Simple Green. Purple Power is caustic based. You'd have to dilute it a good bit to not etch the aluminum.
Good question! I researched that some time ago and really did not find a definitive answer. Some say the extra ring just creates more drag and others say it is there for heat transfer. Some builders eliminate the lower ring altogether. What I did when going through my ms361 was to leave the worn lower ring in place for heat transfer and replaced the top ring with a new one. Running good for almost 7 years now.
Absolutely, sodium hydroxide. Sodium hydroxide is a caustic though, thus it's not correct to say it won't react with metals. Metal corrosion is inevitable if left long enough. This is where the cast-iron cookware crowd joins the chat.
Spray oven cleaner for cleaning the saw chains too. Put chain in a ziplock baggie, spray it, zip it let it soak, then brush, and hose, and blow off - will sparkle !
Richard...When does the cost of the part dictate how much labor cost you spend? I know it makes interesting content but I would think a new OEM piston would have been cheaper in the long run. Just wondering?
I should have touched on this in the video. If the ring wasn't stuck it would have cleaned up in a fraction of the time. A new piston from Stihl is about $100 and would have made sense in hindsite.
A super thin straight razor is best for minimal scratches... Got the carbon buildup on the fs80 piston off with virtually no scratches. 101 octane race fuel, 2 cycle oil & seafoam for EPA repellent...
I have a quart of Royal Purple HP-2C Full Synthetic 2 Cycle oil. If it's something you'd be interested in doing some testing on I'd be happy to mail it to you, at no cost to you. Your real world no nonsense videos are really good. Appreciate the content.
Xylene or toluene (if you can get it) are the only common things that even have a chance of removing carbon without damaging the metal. Mixing in some acetone helps too. This is an extremely potent solvent, don't get it on anything sensitive, especially plastic or rubber. It's extremely flammable, the fumes very toxic, and it may react with certain chemicals. You can add Xylene or toluene to your gas mix to increase the octane and provide cleaning.
@@CatsRcool-b5o There are two versions of the 462, the early ones had a different piston/barrel and i think the cases where also different. They redesigned it because hey had major piston issues. But obviously I'm the idiot....... 🤨
looks to me, that this isnt only oilcarbon. wooddust especial from cutting dry wood with the oil, makes that amount of carbon. I think the Echo 2511 you had, not long ago, with not much runtime had also this problem. especial when using the airsives, yes i call it airsievs, because you often have to buy airfilters who filters the dust away from the engine. Husky has that problem, also the red airsives in the echo 2511. but for the 2511 you can buy white airfilters.
I heard talk by Donny Walker IIRC that’s some shops were recommending break-in by letting the salt idle for an entire tank of fuel. They were seeing ridiculous amounts of carbon and coking. Maybe that’s what happened here.
I think that's the only thing that could burn that nasty. I remember as a kid watching my uncle pull a valve cover off an old Impala and the sludge was crazy.
That engine ran so hot to burn that much carbon. Telltale is the underside of the piston to confirm overheating/lean run. Carbon sticking the ring lands also a sign. I’d say he’s put too much oil causing the engine to run lean, Poor quality oil Airflow restriction over the cylinder Carb/intake/crank seals air leak …or any combination of the above
I don't think the carbon stuck the ring. The rings being stuck made all that carbon happen. And that top ring doesn't look too good either. Springiness and wear are obvious. This saw was running cheaper oil AND wasn't ran hard enough. Add some wood dust being burnt in there (based on the intake side wear), and that thing is not surprising to look like that.
Wow just wow! Surely that saw has been beyond a little hot a few times aswell. Looked similar to but much worse than a 455 rancher I got a while back for $50. Was a customer return at a local farm and ranch store. Looked brand new. No compression. Ring very stuck and brown sticky residue all inside engine. Lotta soak time in B-12 chemtool and some elbow grease later, it all cleaned up beautifully and made a killer trade! Still wish I knew what oil was ran through it? Bar oil? You definitely added a lot of life to that saw👍🏻
I'm thinking that saw spent a lot of it's run time idling ie the one running it couldn't be bothered to shut it off in between long wait's of cutting. Yes I know a few guy's like that they don't feel like restarting a saw so they just let it sit and idle through most of a tank of gas while doing hand work like moving tree limb's or brush piling. Could have also been a saw that sat next to a wood chipper idling and only needed to make a few cut's here or there to feed the chipper, I've seen some bad one's but this one yike's!
tcw3 isn't intended for high temp air-cooled, lack of an ash package means no protection if the oil film decomposes from heat and then you get a snowball event.
@@richardflagg3084 I've thoroughly researched this topic. My journey began when some caster oil I'd carefully mixed failed me miserably. If stihl's no-ash oil works for you, then I say go for it. I'm sticking with low-ash api-tc type oil in my air-cooled 2-strokes because I know it works, how and why it works. BTW, Supertech tcw3 is blue, I use this @15:1 in my 1950 Johnson outboard.
I had a 462 just like that piston. Wouldn’t start compression was around 100. It had stuck the ring so hard I couldn’t pry it out. No scoring anywhere just junk oil and abuse I’m sure.
I wonder if it was run on old gasoline? Tree Monkey has a recent video on that but his example had carbon down the transfers and into the crankcase. Apparently old gas burns much slower. Another great video!👍
Old gas usually leaves some kind of deposit in the crankcase, looks like heat and crap oil. Underside of the piston being coked that heavily is the condemning heat evidence in my eyes.
@@Super-Dave-OutdoorsMy guess is salad oil will decompose and deposit polymers on the underside of the piston as well. Whatever the oil was in the mix, it was the wrong oil.
Considering the products, tools and time investment to clean, why not just replace the parts? Thinking, you could have repaired two saws in the time it took to deal with the poor judgment of the owner of this saw.
It would have been nice to know what oil/mix to stay away from. Reminds me of the old lawn boy motors people would run on 30w mix 30:1or 16:1. Mowed the lawn and cleared the block of insects.
I'd be very interested in finding out what oil that was. I've seen some "universal" works in anything oils do this as well as some dedicated boat oils when ran in air cooled 2 strokes.
Wow, that poor saw! That has to be a combo of low octane gas, cheapest 2 stroke available and a way too heavy mix?
Is there any chance the M Tronic could have a fault and give too much fuel at a certain rev range?? Great to see the film of HP2 on that piston, I tried finding HP2 in NZ, and can get it for $90 a quart! Think I'll stick to Sabre for now at 40:1. Thanks Richard for another great video, these "unboxing" so to speak videos are a treat, looking forward to the 927 oil test. You are the only chainsaw channel I'm subscribed to now, love the non nonsense common sense approach. Thank You sir!
Whew that's pricey for the Honda oil. The saw ran fine (with a fresh fuel filter) when I ran it. I don't believe it was an MTronic issue. Thanks for the kind words. You'll be just fine with the Saber. It's a great oil.
1/3 white vinegar with water works good in the ultra sonic for carbon. Keep an eye on it with delicate steel parts like needle rollers because it is a mild corrosive.
Definitely a good idea to run a quality motorcycle 2 stroke oil hay👍
Great job cleaning the piston up!
Does M-tropic adjust for fuel oil ratios?
Man that looks gross. I've had really good success with marvel mystery oil and Berryman B12 mixed in the gas when I encounter really carboned up 2 cycle engines. A few tanks of the MMO and B12 in the premix has cleaned them up a lot. Another product I've taken a very high liking to is the Redline SL1 total fuel system cleaner. I haven't really tried it in small engines, but I have had great success with it in a multitude of auto engines fixing pinging and rough running or even misfires from dirty injectors and would like to see you try it out on some small engines. It has the highest concentration of PEA of any fuel system/combustion chamber cleaner on the market as far as I know.
Sorry if you already addressed this but I have to ask, do you know how many hours are on this saw?
Richard, im writing to u from Australia, can't get any good advice over here !
My problem is a dark smudging exhaust, n yelloish tint on the cylinder on a Stihl 251 one year old running 40:1 always fresh gas 98 octane. I'm only a camper cutting down firewood for my campside only ! I'm not running the saw extensively . Should i just run the saw on 50:1 only. As I'm not running the saw very hard at all ,maybe its not burning up the rich oil mixture ???
Kindly advise, thanking you for your time in advance regards Gunter
Great video and dissection. If the bar is any indicator, I’m going to guess the oil for mix was the cheapest that could be found. Hats off to Stihl, that saw was probably still running due to M-tronics and quality air filter.
hello Richard
very interesting video thank you sir
I noticed that my old husqvarna chainsaw was in a state almost like the video
I passed a bottle of motomix stihl because the dealer had more aspen, incredible it’s not badly decreased , yet the motomix has oil hp ultra the worst in carbon thermal as you said
it seems to me that very pure alkilate gas cleans everything can you one day make a test with aspen 2 on a well-soiled machine
thank you in advance and congratulations for what you share
Awesome video!! Thank you. What "non-reactive" degreaser did you use to clean the carbon? Purple Power?
I use a local company that makes their own chemicals. It's called Burst. It's closer to something like Simple Green. Purple Power is caustic based. You'd have to dilute it a good bit to not etch the aluminum.
@@richardflagg3084 - I appreciate it! Thank you for the response. Enjoy your content, keep it up 💪
Looks like they ran 10w 30 4 cycle oil for their mix
@@gradycothran3896 More like vintage Quaker State non detergent 🤣
Your opinion: One piston ring or two? Pros and cons.
Good question! I researched that some time ago and really did not find a definitive answer. Some say the extra ring just creates more drag and others say it is there for heat transfer. Some builders eliminate the lower ring altogether. What I did when going through my ms361 was to leave the worn lower ring in place for heat transfer and replaced the top ring with a new one. Running good for almost 7 years now.
Even the hardest carbon deposits will come off with spray oven cleaner. May take a few applications, but it won’t damage the parent metal.
Absolutely, sodium hydroxide. Sodium hydroxide is a caustic though, thus it's not correct to say it won't react with metals. Metal corrosion is inevitable if left long enough. This is where the cast-iron cookware crowd joins the chat.
Spray oven cleaner for cleaning the saw chains too. Put chain in a ziplock baggie, spray it, zip it let it soak, then brush, and hose, and blow off - will sparkle !
Sodium Hydroxide will *devour* aluminum, mind…
Gonna give this video a like before I even watch it, great work rich.
Did they fix the piston wabble tolerance on the 462..?
Richard...When does the cost of the part dictate how much labor cost you spend? I know it makes interesting content but I would think a new OEM piston would have been cheaper in the long run. Just wondering?
I should have touched on this in the video. If the ring wasn't stuck it would have cleaned up in a fraction of the time. A new piston from Stihl is about $100 and would have made sense in hindsite.
Customer Must Be Using Regular SAE 30 Motor Oil For His Mix That’s The Worst I’ve Ever Seen 😲😳😳😩😮 That poor Saw 😭
Are you still doing the Maxima Castor 927 test?
As soon as I can.
@@richardflagg3084 When you do get time for it, you will enjoy the smell 🙂
A super thin straight razor is best for minimal scratches... Got the carbon buildup on the fs80 piston off with virtually no scratches. 101 octane race fuel, 2 cycle oil & seafoam for EPA repellent...
How did you get the piston at top dead center?if u don't mind
Rich nice informative video ❤❤❤
I have a quart of Royal Purple HP-2C Full Synthetic 2 Cycle oil. If it's something you'd be interested in doing some testing on I'd be happy to mail it to you, at no cost to you. Your real world no nonsense videos are really good. Appreciate the content.
What is the non-corrosive to aluminim cleane you used in your USC?
You can use simple green. This is made by a local company that blends their own line of products.
I’ve always run in Amsoil saber two-stroke oil at 40:1 and Amsoil quick shot.
Xylene or toluene (if you can get it) are the only common things that even have a chance of removing carbon without damaging the metal. Mixing in some acetone helps too. This is an extremely potent solvent, don't get it on anything sensitive, especially plastic or rubber. It's extremely flammable, the fumes very toxic, and it may react with certain chemicals. You can add Xylene or toluene to your gas mix to increase the octane and provide cleaning.
Do you know if this is a mk1 or mk2 462 Richard?
@@CatsRcool-b5o There are two versions of the 462, the early ones had a different piston/barrel and i think the cases where also different. They redesigned it because hey had major piston issues. But obviously I'm the idiot....... 🤨
1st gen 2nd gen!
@@tedneitzelJesus mk/gen ....
@@CatsRcool-b5o 🤣
What year did they make Gen 2 462
looks to me, that this isnt only oilcarbon. wooddust especial from cutting dry wood with the oil, makes that amount of carbon. I think the Echo 2511 you had, not long ago, with not much runtime had also this problem. especial when using the airsives, yes i call it airsievs, because you often have to buy airfilters who filters the dust away from the engine. Husky has that problem, also the red airsives in the echo 2511. but for the 2511 you can buy white airfilters.
I see I've succeeded in beating you down with my incessant tear down requests. Thank you!
I love them too
It is a really bad idea have used motor oil in the chain oiler; but so much worse when they use the old motor oil for their fuel mix.
I heard talk by Donny Walker IIRC that’s some shops were recommending break-in by letting the salt idle for an entire tank of fuel. They were seeing ridiculous amounts of carbon and coking. Maybe that’s what happened here.
Be curious to know what kind of gas he’s running as well there are some inferior fuels these days the additives plus oil is not a good combination
Looks like fuel was mixed with 1960's Quaker State DeLuxe non detergent.
I think that's the only thing that could burn that nasty. I remember as a kid watching my uncle pull a valve cover off an old Impala and the sludge was crazy.
@@richardflagg3084 Back in those days we used Gulf Saphire and a 16:1 ratio (8:1 at breakin). Damned says and Lawnboys smoked like Yellowstone.
The only thing I would like to see done is the saws cleaned very well before disassemble but I do enjoy your videos
That engine ran so hot to burn that much carbon. Telltale is the underside of the piston to confirm overheating/lean run. Carbon sticking the ring lands also a sign.
I’d say he’s put too much oil causing the engine to run lean,
Poor quality oil
Airflow restriction over the cylinder
Carb/intake/crank seals air leak
…or any combination of the above
I don't think the carbon stuck the ring. The rings being stuck made all that carbon happen. And that top ring doesn't look too good either. Springiness and wear are obvious. This saw was running cheaper oil AND wasn't ran hard enough. Add some wood dust being burnt in there (based on the intake side wear), and that thing is not surprising to look like that.
Wow just wow! Surely that saw has been beyond a little hot a few times aswell. Looked similar to but much worse than a 455 rancher I got a while back for $50. Was a customer return at a local farm and ranch store. Looked brand new. No compression. Ring very stuck and brown sticky residue all inside engine. Lotta soak time in B-12 chemtool and some elbow grease later, it all cleaned up beautifully and made a killer trade! Still wish I knew what oil was ran through it? Bar oil?
You definitely added a lot of life to that saw👍🏻
Varnish in lieu of oil?
Crazy story man!
The time you had in cleaning the piston you could have bought a new one or two!
Goddam...I thought I was the only one with auto tune problems lately
I think this was crap oil. It ran better than it should have. Lol
I’ve seen tons of pistons that bad and worse. I works on a lot of small 2 strokes. Some people put crazy stuff in their gas.
I think it's likely they ran some used motor oil through it, "oil is oil" kind of folks
I'm thinking that saw spent a lot of it's run time idling ie the one running it couldn't be bothered to shut it off in between long wait's of cutting. Yes I know a few guy's like that they don't feel like restarting a saw so they just let it sit and idle through most of a tank of gas while doing hand work like moving tree limb's or brush piling. Could have also been a saw that sat next to a wood chipper idling and only needed to make a few cut's here or there to feed the chipper, I've seen some bad one's but this one yike's!
Xylene will do a good job on softening oily caked carbon
Yep I've never seen one that bad also! You have the record!
I'm thinking it was just a couple tanks away from that carbon becoming Diamonds ! dangit Richard
tcw3 isn't intended for high temp air-cooled, lack of an ash package means no protection if the oil film decomposes from heat and then you get a snowball event.
You have any first hand results that TC-W3 won't perform well in a chainsaw?
@@richardflagg3084 I've thoroughly researched this topic. My journey began when some caster oil I'd carefully mixed failed me miserably. If stihl's no-ash oil works for you, then I say go for it.
I'm sticking with low-ash api-tc type oil in my air-cooled 2-strokes because I know it works, how and why it works.
BTW, Supertech tcw3 is blue, I use this @15:1 in my 1950 Johnson outboard.
I think he’s been running straight treacle, never seen anything like it.
Attenzione non è solo l'olio di scarsa qualità ma la benzina è fondamentale
That really looks like cold revving to Me. Starting it up and immediately cutting something with it. Construction guys do it most.
Were you able to find out what oil this saw had been ran on? Want to make sure I stay FAR FAR AWAY from it.
Sorry, I replied right before you actually answered about that.
I had a 462 just like that piston. Wouldn’t start compression was around 100. It had stuck the ring so hard I couldn’t pry it out. No scoring anywhere just junk oil and abuse I’m sure.
I don't know why but soaking in antifreeze will make the carbon just fall off of metals. Better than solvents
See if he can ask the fellow he bought it from what oil was used. I'm very curious.
Bet they have been letting it idle a whole lot
Old gas???
Man what was he using motor oil 😂
Must be running bar oil in the gas. Lol.
Hey Friend, I need some parts for a 460 can you help me out?
Whatcha need?
Man that piston was UGLY!! It sounds as if you’re a Honda HP2 believer.
I wonder if it was run on old gasoline? Tree Monkey has a recent video on that but his example had carbon down the transfers and into the crankcase. Apparently old gas burns much slower. Another great video!👍
This saw was likely used commercially. I can't imagine old gas on a regular basis. Scott Kunz is a lot smarter than I am tho.
Old gas usually leaves some kind of deposit in the crankcase, looks like heat and crap oil. Underside of the piston being coked that heavily is the condemning heat evidence in my eyes.
Thanks for the replies!
@@Super-Dave-OutdoorsScan through yesterdays video and have a look at the plug. Definitely hot
@@Super-Dave-OutdoorsMy guess is salad oil will decompose and deposit polymers on the underside of the piston as well. Whatever the oil was in the mix, it was the wrong oil.
Look like lots more idle running than anything. Saw never got hot enough to burn off
👍👍
Reminds me of burnt Karo Syrup in mamas pecan pie last thanksgiving
🤣🤣🤣
Considering the products, tools and time investment to clean, why not just replace the parts? Thinking, you could have repaired two saws in the time it took to deal with the poor judgment of the owner of this saw.
Lucas from napa probably. 😂
toooo much stabil
WOW.😮
I bet this is an old dude running cheap oil 32:1. I know, I'm an asshole but some old dudes think things never change.