Petrol vs Electric - Which Is Cheaper Fuel Now? (Rapid Charging)
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- Опубліковано 13 вер 2024
- I've been getting bombarded with messages about the price of rapid charging going nuts so it's now no longer worth getting an electric car. Well, what does the whiteboard of truth say!?
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Good video, but they’ve had their cheaper to run day which ended years ago! Electric cars are simply a lifestyle choice now. Eg Petrol Corsa GS line list price £20490otr. Electric corsa GS line list price £29305otr. Say you do 10k miles a year, £4800 petrol fuel over 3 years, less than £200 in tax and £600 in servicing = £26090. So even if you paid 0 for your electricity and 0 for servicing and assuming insurance was the same then the elec car costs £3250 more over 3 years. Which is a huge £89 a month. Which only goes up once you start paying for electrons :::edit autocorrect typo
Instavolt is now at 69p and osprey at £1.00 a kwh is just total and utterly profiteering. If the uk government does not jump on these rapid charger companies, they are going to be fleecing the ev motorist as much as the oil companies do the ice motorist. Disgusting practice.
Not necessarily, commercial electricity rates aren't capped like household rates are, so suppliers can essentially charge the charger operators what they like.
Some places are getting charged 80p-£1/kw for their electricity, a few months back it was down at 15p/kw
@@stevezodiac491 renewable energy generators are making a fortune as cheap electricity is being charged relative to gas prices.
We only get 4% of our energy from Russia.
The problem is a broken private energy market, as well as Putin.
You are confusing the legal definition of profiteering. This isn’t profiteering as you don’t need to use a DCFC, vast majority of owners and miles driven will come from more cost effective residential charging. You are also confusing the revenue streams of Petro stations and DCFC cabinets, Petro stations have high markup amenities, snacks, liquids, Tylenol ect, they sell the energy at as low of a rate as they can to entice patrons to pick them out of many other options along a route. DCFC have to first cover the costs of equipment, telecommunications/billing, service, and electricity rates directly at the cord. They then have make a margin on revenue to pay back the installation costs initial investment, and additional margin above to continue rolling out future growth. All while not having high margin convenience store sales. Follow this up with the fact that in most jurisdictions they can’t legally sell “electricity” as they may not be allowed to compete legally with a regulated monopoly utility that is the sole seller of “electricity”, so now they also have to tell charging session by time no units of energy. And find a way to make that profitable for both the 25kw charge rate cars, and the 350+kw charge rate cars. Credit card billing of one transaction could in some regions add $5 to the total cost of the charge alone. When your talking about a rapid session being as little as $19, there is an outsized cost on payment method alone, and due to contracts they can not disparage one form of payment from another. Where as the Petro station in convenience sales allow has zero issue with absorbing this cost.
But you have the option of topping off the pack nightly at home, or a place of business like a grocery store or employer, where the investment in AC/DC conversion equipment is actual onboard the vehicle, with a much more affordable rate, and zero business overhead. So profiteering isn’t applicable to this particular model.
(Edit I also just did a google search of UK business electricity rates, they start at 18p per KWh and go up to 70p per KWh, and that rate depends on how high the amperage draw would be, so your looking at 20p to maybe 50p just in energy costs alone directly before profits)
@@logant6490 not necessarily as many will be on guaranteed rates, so anything extra they get (like now) they have to pay back to the government
I think this government will be happy for us to be fleeced
Thanks, I think Osprey just gone up to £1/unit. Like many EV owners,I am lucky and have home charger on 7.5p night rate, and solar, so about 2p/mile.
I do not mind paying high prices at rapid chargers, very rare for me, I just want reliability, availability and ease of use.
I know Ionity have always been very expensive, but if you live near one, then the subscription unit cost is very low, but you will need a few charges a month to benefit from the subs cost. I have a free subscription for a year and their chargers are excellent, very reliable, and fast, often over 200 Kw for my car.
yes, I had the email from Osprey regarding the £1kw price rise
Thanks, that's the one to avoid then
Me to! Mostly charge at home either for free or at 7.5p Kwh
I get the feeling that EV owners have been sucked in by the initial low running costs. It was never the Government's intention to allow cheap motoring. The plan was always to raise costs when enough motorists had been hooked. In the pipeline.....EV vehicle excise duty, EV road mile usage charge, EV electricity tax (monitored through your smart meter), EV environmental battery disposal charge. I am not against EVs as I think they are great if you can afford them however Governments must come clean on whats in the pipeline for EV owners as the revenue lost at the petrol pump has to be replaced somehow.
Exactly.......and how they will generate the electricity
The government have come clean they are going to be charged road tax from 2025 & all subsidies for person cars have now stopped.
Unless your a business user or you have a good solar / battery system buying a brand new Ev would be crazy right now.
The true ownership costs are not mentioned by most Ev owners.
I personally have drove an Ev for over 5 years now & have saved thousands of pounds in running costs.
But with Electric prices sky rocketing from £0.12p to 0.34 per kw at home & Rapid motorway charges going from £0.25p per kw to an average of £0.68p & with the free chargers vanishing anyone who buys an Ev thinking they will save money will be very disappointed.
Yes you can get cheap night rates at the moment of £0.10p per kw but you can not charge your car full if empty during the 6 hours you get at that rate. You would be lucky to charge an average Ev to 50% during that Time period. So the other 50% of charge would cost you £0.44p per kw plus what they fail to tell you is you will be paying that £0.44p which is an extra £0.09p per kw over the cap from 05:30 to 23:30 so all your electric used during the day will cost you more. So your Ev isn’t really costing £0.10p per kw as it’s causing you to pay more at home for the other 18 hours left in the day.
Anyone interested in Ev’s & saving money should only buy a really efficient one like say a bmw i3 or Renault Zoe or an Hyundai 5 I think the older one & don’t buy new but one 5 years old or so.
Driving carefully you should get at least 5 miles per kw knocking around. Plus they are at prices where you don’t need finance. As most Ev owners don’t tell you there Ev cost a min £12,000 more than the petrol version , so when they finance it they are paying a lot more in interest on that loan. Depending on the term but most likely at least over a £1000 per year.
So don’t buy a Jaguar i pace or Audi 50 / 55 as these only average around 2.2 miles per kw. So on the standard rate / cap electric rate one of these would roughly cost £6.80 for a 40 miles journey. And if you charged one from empty on say the Octopus tariff it would cost you at least £30.50 for fully charge for around 180 miles to 220 miles
Cheap electricity is disappearing, next it will be pay per mile too, feels like we've been conned again lol.
I'm happy riding my ebike and the wife has a 70mpg diesel so the dream of owning an nice ev car is fading fast.
Shocking, recently calculated the break-even electricity price for Nisssan Leaf and came up with 57p per kWh. We got very selective now on where to charge on long journeys, good to have Gridserve at least, but they can get quite busy. I am not paying 67-69p if I have a choice. In many places like Wales there may be only one option, need more charging points to have better competition and ideally a cap. Now they charge anything they want.
Great example of Man Maths in action. Clearly you have to make a great number of roundings and averages but rather than the RAC "Average UK forecourt prices" which include no doubt the supermarket discounted pricing for ICE Fuel, Rapid Charging is going to be mostly relevant to long distant trips and motorway Fuel price would therefore have been a more appropriate comparison. motorway Diesel v Rapid charging
I love the fact that we sell liquid fuel by the litre but then calculate fuel consumption in miles per gallon. Loony.
It used to be sold by the gallon until metric came in and it sounds cheaper if sold by the litre instead of the gallon.
@Lookup2Wakeup haha yeah it is because we are "mostly metric"
@@bikerboyT1050 IIRC, it was sold by the gallon until the price rises in the 1970s, when most pumps still had mechanical price displays. Each digit was on a cylinder with the digits 0 to 9 on and they couldn't go round fast enough to keep up with the price. Yes, charging by the litre sounds cheaper, but it also had the benefit that the machines didn't need replacing. I should add that it was a long time ago so this might just be an urban myth I heard somewhere.
It’s an interesting comparison, but considering the up front cost of an ev, an overall comparison including depreciation etc would be more helpful
Depreciation on EVs seems to be very low at the moment. I bought mine in January and WBAC are offering more rhan I paid for it, the car is currently saving me about £250 a month of fuel costs, if you have the money to buy one do the sums because it may be worth it.
The biggest factor to add to that is mileage. If you do something like 15K (which I believe EVM does) then it is a no brainer but if you are doing sub 5k (like over half of the UK) then it is more expensive to run than a petrol in a true like for like car. I am not anti or pro EV's but looking at EVM and here (ua-cam.com/video/vzvcFw5uoGU/v-deo.html) it really looks like ICE favours low milage, which I guess from an envioronmental point of view is good.
@@davidjerome806 surely long distance favours ICE? Especially if you can't change at home and have to use public chargers and are doing lots of motor way miles (which EVs don't seem to like from what I've seen in other videos)
@@JetsetDruid long distance journey favours ICE yes (for all the reasons you mention), but if say for example you do have a 25 mile commute (50 mile round trip / circa 15k annually), this will hugely skew towards EV - providing you can charge it.
some of the commentors above failed to mention cost of maintenance of an ICE vehicle! Its several hundred pounds a year, even if your car is new.
Great video but I still think plug in hybrids are the way to go at present. My plug in manages 50 miles on a charge which covers all my daily driving so never use petrol. When I go on a longer run roughly 100 miles twice a month I still manage 150 mpg overall this tells me my engine is running 30% of the time. I known plug-ins are a similar price to electric vehicles but this drive train will probably run for 300,000 miles and as the battery is never stressed or rapid charged it should last too. Just something to think about
Instavolt is £0.66. Osprey is going up to £1.00
So £1 for 4 Miles lol, my diesel does 60 to 70mpg so diesel is cheaper by far.
Question is what will electricity cost to charge at home over the next couple of years and in the near future and what will diesel cost , most of our trips are local and home charging will be 99% used , off.peak charging tariffs may well disappear once electric cars are more common.
There is definitely an issue here, unless we can make cheap electric for the masses with nuclear and renewables etc cost of charging will be high.
Electricity COULD get more pricey than diesel, even at home I guess, anything’s possible. But it’s not NOW, it’s all about driving the cheapest possible at the time you’re driving. I own an EV and I’d probably switch back if it ever became more expensive to drive than a diesel. At the moment it’s not, so I’ll continue for now. I’m taking advantage NOW while it’s cheap.
@@AdamJermaneJones makes sense IF you already have an ev and especially if you do the miles.
I have a diesel and to go to ev would cost a lot and I dont even do that many miles,
Atm ev are holding their value very well ( but so are most cars I guess ) but I do wonder if that would change if they didn't save you any money in fuel.
Personally I would live an ev though, I hate the mess polution and servicing that comes with ice so if they end up the same cost to buy and run I'd choose ev.
If you charge at home its worth remembering that for a long trip you leave home with a cheap rate 100% charge which on a 200 mile EV means you only pay higher rapid charging rates on miles over that.
Excellent point!
My local shopping outlet has podpoint 7kw chargers and they were free up until recently. Now 28p per kWh. Not too much a big deal as I charge from home at 7.5p but was a good way of topping up for free. This video shows that even at worst case rapid charging is broadly comparable to petrol but I hardly use them as battery capacity generally means most journeys don’t need them.
Thanks, my local Tesco is still free, but it cannot last.
7kw and 22kw fast chargers are still free. Rapid charges 50kw are 28p
@@alanbrad3727 Not everywhere. My local supermarket has also moved the charger from free to 25p
pod point 22kw for my Zoe are 0.28p near me which is a godsend everywhere else is roughly double that. Even BE.EV 7KW are 0.48p
By the end of the year >=£1KWh will be commonplace at public fast chargers, and home overnight charging tarrif's will also increase inline with the price increases from October. It's clear that with the much higher ticket price of EV's to start, the incentives of owning an EV are rapdily shrinking. What's not often said is that the vast majority of EV sales are still business and fleet and not private - the average person still cannot get anywhere near affording them.
What worries me is the tax revenue lost with the phasing out of Petrol/Diesel.
I suspect it will mean charging your EV costs must inevitable jump massively to recoup those approximate £26 billion losses
This is brilliant and a great way of illustrating the differences. You should do this every 3-6 months with current prices. I’ve hired an electric car twice and the car took me to ionity for charging at 79p. Rapid charging made sense on way back to airport to catch a flight. For ICE drivers thinking about a switch it could be good to calculate the mpg equivalent ie 79p ionity charge gave me 100 miles for £20. £20 buys 3 gal of fuel so that’s 100/3=33mpg.
😬 I guess you filmed this before Osprey’s announcement. Suspect the rest are going to follow fairly shortly!
Yes now £1
@@johndoyle4723 £1 wow, was going to say I heard it will be likely 70 to 80 p/kwh
Home batteries and Solar Pannels or just batteries guys helps with these crazy electricity prices . Thanks EVM your video's on this helped me make the decision. Keep up the good work mate with the whiteboard of truth
This is a good analysis for a single long distance trip. My car is charged at 7.5ppkwh overnight or charged from my solar panels during the day. Also worth remembering for some business users companies are putting in chargers in staff car parks. I took a 400 mile round trip to a Barclays site, they let me use their charger while I was there, the whole trip cost me £4
My work place has 24 charging points, all free.
The 7.5p rate is only worth having if you can shift your peak usage. Even more so now that the peak on Octopus go is 40p. Either that or you need to be doing 600 miles a month or something to really see the benefit. For me I can only see Go being viable if you go all in with solar and battery, which in turn means that on top of a more expensive car, you have an additional investment of 10k or so on top.
Six months later ...
We have just bought a 2 year old ID.3. we do not have the ability to charge at home but we do have convenient local kerbside 7kWh and 22kWh chargers that we can use. The cost per kWh from these is cheaper than our standard electricity tariff due to a 20% discount for membership.
In real terms we are paying 8p per mile for electricity. Our car is averaging 4 miles / kWh since we bought it but I have used your average figure.
We also have a friend who will allow us to park and charge on his drive for overnight rates. This brings our cost down to below 4p /kWh. Not bad with these otherwise extortionate fuel prices, eh? 😉
As Rapid will be used as a distress purchase on a long journey, I would reckon 45mpg for petrol and 55 mpg for diesel for a family sized car on a long motorway run.
Does an EV do well at 70?
Oh, and I paid £159.9 at Esso here today, so the gap must be closing or closed now.
Worth revisiting....
i drive an ev and 70mph kills your range.wind kills your range,rain kills your range,if it too cold it kills your range,if its too hot it kills your range. you might as well throw 3 darts at a board for your range on any particular day.
And that’s Esso, not supermarket prices! 45mpg at 159.9p is still 16p per mile. At 50mpg it’s 14.5p per mile. And fuel prices continue to drop. I’ve stopped filling my car each week now as the prices are dropping that fast, it’s worth only putting in enough until the next time I’m passing the filling station.
I think diesel would come out to be cheaper if instead of average mpg for ICE you would use average for diesel and petrol respectively. When I'm averaging 55mpg on my diesel car, the same model with similar power, just in petrol, averages around 30-35mpg
Agreed. It really is a case of YMMV - literally. I had a Mazda cx-5 2.2D and was getting up to 70mpg - Normally about 50-55 mpg but after about 6 years down to 45-50 and motorways 40-45. I replaced it with a non hybrid 1.4 petrol suzuki vitara - I get around 44 urban/non motorways and 46-48 on motorways. So its the opposite of what I'd expect. both light cars for their class, similar performance. All short distances are done by walking or bike, My first electric vehicle is likely to be an e-bike. Just cant drop the sort of cash required on an electric car when I'm driving less anyways. We'll probably move from 2 cars to 1 in the next few years.
Thanks for another great vid explaining EV ownership issues in a comprehensive but easily understood format.
I charge my Model 3 at home 99% of the time but it's good to have knowledge of the public charging networks.
It's close, ICE v EV but adding in road tax and servicing still gives EV's the edge. 🖖
Not if you factor in the extra you paid for your car compared to a petrol car.
@@pstanyer1 No, I spent two months test driving cars within my £50-60000 price range, ICE, PHEV and EV. There were some very good contenders but the one consistent irritation across all manufacturers, except Tesla, was the salesperson's lack of knowledge of their product, their focus on service plans to maintain the warranty and three forms of ID before I could drive the car.
Every PHEV I drove had a flat battery and when I pointed this out I was told "we don't bother changing it because it's just the same to drive". Some even gave me a petrol or diesel telling me "it's the same as a PHEV".
These were all in a similar price range.
Visiting the Tesla showroom was like a breath of fresh air, no pressure selling, no service plans, a completely relaxed atmosphere, fully knowledgeable staff and just my driving licence as ID. A totally different experience in the showroom and in the car.
This is stupid. EV's also cost 3x the price of any combustion equivalent... the industry is a sham.
Can I offer the thought that my last 2 petrol / diesel cars ran close to 200k and 20 years on the road. So you would probably gave 2 or three EVs in that period.... paying for these screws up the figures doesn't it.!
I've just completed a 900 mile round trip to Scotland in my Yaris Hybrid and my cost per Mile was 10p. (72mpg @ £1.62/litre) I bought the Yaris after cancelling my Citroen EC4 order after waiting three months for delivery only to be told it would be another 8 months before it would be built !! I've even had the charge point installed at home and fortunately was one of the last to qualify for the grant. Hopefully I'll get to use it one day.
The thing is that the cost of charging has to be considerably cheaper than fuel to make it viable, so you can make back the difference in purchase price of the vehicle. Just breaking even isn't enough. This does show the disparity between those who can afford an EV, and have cheaper charging at home or work, and those that can't. I can see this becoming a serious political issue as 2030 approaches and people wake up to the grossly inequitable nature of this transition.
Only criticism - the mpg of petrol and diesel is not the same! I get 66mpg on long distances with my diesel. Newer cars get over 70mpg.
I have a Nissan Leaf(30kwh) and Nissan Qashqai(1.3MH). My Leaf gets 4.1 M/Kwh, Qashqai gets 39Mpg. Thats about 22p per mile in petrol so for electric to be more expensive it needs to be over 90p/Kwh. Osprey are the only one currently who are over that as far as I know!
My aygo does 65 mpg and petrol was 168.9 three days ago so a lot cheapest than an electric car as they are also much more expensive to buy aswell
I've been watching your videos for around a year. They are really helpful. Thank you so much.
I'm getting my 1st electric car around December. I've ordered the C4. I can't have a home charger so public charging is what I'll be using. Cost of something I need to consider.
Great choice of EV, James - the eC4 unashamedly focuses on driver & passenger ride comfort over anything sporty and, considering the ever-increasing pot-holed UK road network, is absolutely all the better for it...! 😎
Suckered!!!!
We tended to use our leaf for local journeys only anyway, but it’s certainly swung more now to not bothering and using the diesel - whilst it’s marginally cheaper, on a cost saving basis it’s not worth the extra hassle of stopping and worrying about charging. Yes, I know it’s also about the environment, but….
To be clear though. We still save loads as most of our journeys are
This is stupid. EV's also cost 3x of any combustion equivalent... the industry is a sham.
3 x the petrol version?
An electric Peugeot e208 costs £70k?
@@ElectricVehicleMan Lol the Europeans should be last ones pushing electric vehicles, give it a year. Scratch that 6 months, then update your calculations please.
Last time I checked a Diesel will get higher MPG than the Petrol car. I also think 50MPG for a petrol car the size of a BEV is a dream. It will be a lot less MPG so the break even price will be a lot higher
My Dacia 7 seater does anything from 48 to 56 to the gallon.
Thanks for the in depth info. I’m sure diesel is more efficient then petrol though, maybe 50mph for a petrol hybrid. It would be interesting to do a similar video on home heating (gas, oil, electric etc).
Yes I've been looking at petrol hybrids and surprised how low the mpg still is. My diesel Focus does 72mpg in summer, 62mpg in winter and I do around 22,000 miles a year so the cost of trying to be a bit more environmentally responsible is quite considerable even though petrol is cheaper. Unfortunately at the moment I can't afford a BEV that would meet my journey requirements so that's the next step some years in the future.
I agree with you. I charge at home and avoid rapid chargers when I can only using them if desperate. As you say look at them as an equivalent to motorway service stations. You wouldn’t wait to fill up on the motorway anybody would do it before unless you had no choice.
£1.53 for petrol today. Keeps coming down electric going up, seeing less reason to go full ev from my Niro plugin with each day that passes.
My 2nd car costs peanuts to run, tax & insure when it goes it will either be replaced with something similar or not at all.
I’m gonna split hairs on diesel. A diesel equivalent would be more efficient than a petrol so it’d be cheaper than petrol per mile, not more expensive.
You probably need a different mpg for diesel v petrol.
Like I said ‘splitting hairs’ here. You are still absolutely right about everything.
Have a lovely weekend
So what he should do is use the same vehicle for comparison,like the fossil Niro and the ev Niro ??
Now I want someone to do this for my country. XD Really like your logic of figuring out where things break even rather than trying to deal with all the price fluctuations.
The whiteboard of truth shows clearly that we, who have been 'persuaded', to buy electric cars are being screwed.
When you take the higher purchase costs, the higher insurance costs and now escalating electricity costs, it would have been better to have kept our nearly new ICE vehicle. Yes, I could charge my car at 7.5p per kWh at home, but my normal usage costs would go up by over 5p per kWh, pretty much negating any savings by switching tariffs.
Ironically, the cheapest charging (at the moment) is at the new carpark with 54 charge points, relatively near my workplace. However, you can only park for 5 hours in a charging bay and then you have to move to a non-electric bay. By 1pm, when I need to move the car, there only 3 or 4 cars charging (including mine) but it's very difficult to find a non-EV parking bay to move to. So you can then spend the rest of your lunch break driving around town to find a parking space elsewhere, or risk a £100 penalty!
Yes I know that I could buy solar panels and batteries, but who has the money to do that in the current times? You might as well buy a really cheap pre-owned Jag and run it with the money you save...
Apologies for being negative, but I feel that we are all just being conned, after having owned an EV for the past 9 months.
Just a few days ago down on Cornwall all the Tesla superchargers were £0.66p for charging my Tesla. I realized at that point it's already become more expensive for long trips if you are using the convenience of supercharging.
What do you think of Osprey charging £1 per KWh. I am down in Orwell at the moment and the Rapid charging option is almost non existent.
We haven’t taken the plunge yet and bought an EV, I considered that the extra cost of an EV meant that you were basically buying your future energy costs up front in the form of the battery, now it seems that bubble has burst. I’m not sure I want to pay £8-10k extra for the fuel “tank” in my electric car and then pay the same for the fuel to put in it.
I drive using Lpg. I converted my Seat Mii about four years ago. Lpg is currently just under 80p per litre. I get 45mpg on gas. That works out to 8p per mile.
A better video than the last which had more holes in the calculations than Bonnie and Clyde. Petrol is around £1.59 now so cheaper than Rapids. Still it’s only a matter of time before home charging will be altered to suit the taxman so keep on reaping the benefits until they go. Also lots of companies at the moment are allowing cheap/free charging at work etc which is very handy.for EV owners.
This is the worst case for someone with no home charging and uses rapid charging. I seriously doubt that this covers many EV owners.. Let’s face it home charging was the main selling point for a lot of us and we are still smiling.
Interesting video...here in the 'States it's still MUCH cheaper to drive an EV, unless you have a super high MPG vehicle. For example, on a recent 1623 mile road trip we paid $144 in EV charges*, but our 30 MPG Subaru would have cost us about $290. Comparing charging from our home, gas is 4-5 times the cost per mile...at least in our state with the cars we've had. YMMV as they say...
* - costs for DC fast charging, mostly $0.43 / kWh. And actually we still had free kWh from Ford, so our actual cost was about $56, but we used that up, so the $144 is the cost if we did it again.
That's interesting to know as I always thought that the price of gas was way cheaper in the States than it is over here in the UK. Or is it that your EV charging is cheaper?
@@balthefemroe a little from column A, a little from column B. When we took our road trip (June), gas was at an all-time high, and has come down a bit since. But also it looks like our EV charging is cheaper, too. Tom Moloughney at State of Charge channel did a deep dive on charging his F150 vs gas here in the states...it's very comprehensive and worth a look if you're interested. You can skim through to his charts that highlight EV costs and gas costs.
And this is why a co2/pollution tax should be added to both petrol and electricity, helping focusing on renewable energy and keep EV charging appealing
Party is over for cheap driving. Osprey is now £1 and the prices are only going up. I think you should address the fact that the business model for most ev chargers is all wrong, there is a reason petrol stations have shops so they can offset there small profits from selling fuel by selling over priced items in them. Keep up the great videos!!
I was very surprised to find that motorway services were quite a bit cheaper for their rapid chargers than nearby public rapid chargers. Just not enough of them yet.
We have taken our Tesla Model 3 long range on three trips this year. Each trip was about 2100 miles and the charging cost was about $220.00 each time. Doing the math on my Chevy Equinox as an example it would have been about $520 in gas at todays price but gas was more during the time of our second trip so that one would have been very expensive. The savings will vary based on what gas car you compare to and what charging network(s) you have to use.
How long did you spend stood still whilst trying to recharge your battery? What else could you have done with that time?
@@barriewinstanley3124 We used the bathroom, got food, and stretched mostly. In some cases we educated the curious about EVs. Our car has a neon green wrap so we got questions on that also. Most stops were about 30 mins.
@@frankcoffey So around 6 times the time needed to refill an ICE vehicle. People are educated about EV's thats why the sales are so poor. Plus you forgfot to mention how many stops you had to make... My Volvo is shiny black... did you know statistics show green cars are in the "most dangerous colour cars to drive", fun for me is black is top!
Drove a Tesla Model 3 from UK around Europe and back to the UK last month, Tesla Superchargers all the way and at motorway speeds for about 90% of the time. The trip was 2880 miles and cost me £420, so that's 14.58p per mile.
I love the white board of truth and the Yorkshire man who tells it like it is and holds the pens is not bad. Do electrifying know that they could get the same number of subscribers with a white board. More to the point, why don't more car brands give you cars to test? It's not only energy prices that are crazy. Keep up the good work. I bet you could make a good podcast if you put your mind to it. Something for me to listen to when driving ohm!
And now factor in the extra £10K+ that EV's costs over the petrol equivalent! Good presentation. Thanks.
And then the much less depreciation the EV will have over ICE.
Pretty much as expected. What you are not factoring in is the fact electric cars are more expensive to buy. They may also have slightly less service costs. So an mg ice car is 10k cheaper than the ev model. That's 10k towards fuel.
Then if you also take into account time to charge compared to filling up with fuel. If your working and end up having to charge and wait let's say a super quick charge takes 2 hours that's an additional £ 21 at minimum wage. This could go on and on but the price difference is marginal except when charging at home in particular with solar. As 50% of properties don't have the ability to charge at home then 2030 is going to be an interesting time.
Well said('That's 10k towards fuel'). Also if keeping an EV long term there's the possible purchase of a replacement battery which may occur......Ouch
Absolutely. But you can also buy a £2000 or less used ice car and have even more money towards fuel where would this analogy end?. Also, most people I know do not get paid a wage 24/7. IMHO, you either go down, level up or go up in life. Some ambition goes a long way.
But why should we factor in that "cost" for a single journey? Most people (92% as of 2022) do not buy a car outright, but on a lending scheme of some sort. So most people won't have £10k for fuel just sitting around. As for the loan, may be paying £50-100 more a month for the loan on an EV, but saving £200 a month on fuel really offsets that if you do even just an average commuter journey every month.
Petrol and diesel prices are dropping even since this video came out, and electricity is due to rise on the 1st of October, brilliant information though because it's made me realise my PHEV is worth sticking with and not bother with the great expense of getting a full EV ....once my battery is spent I get around 65mpg, and for local running around I get to use home electricity and have solar.
Great comparison Electric v Diesel - I question the average MPG of petrol cars here though, a given model of car or van in Diesel/Petrol will be significantly different and certainly only smaller petrol cars achieving overall mpg of 50 whereas even larger diesels can achieve 50 as an average. However, using your method of breaking down the figures anyone can make their own adjustments to compare and clearly the rapid charger companies are having our trousers and skirts down...
In Toronto I usually charge at home at a cost of $20 a month. If I charge at a Rapid charger it would cost me $18 a week . Premium gas would be $100 a week with gas. Still ahead by a long shot.
It's getting close for long trips , and more than likely petrol/diesel likely will drop electricity to raise in the short term . But for most people it won't matter with home and destination charging even when you do a long journey your first 200 miles will likely be on a cheap home rate.
From an email dtd 14/9/22
I am writing to notify you that Osprey will be making a price change for our rapid EV charging network to £1 per kWh.
Customers using bank cards or Apple/Google Pay will see this starting to take effect from 15 September as it is rolled out across our charge points.
For Osprey app account customers, sessions made from 1 October will be billed at the new rate.
For up-to-date roaming prices please check the provider website or app
It looks to me that public EV charging costs are becoming parity with petrol/diesel costs, the issue here is the government get Duty and Vat on fossil fuel sales but only VAT on EV charging sales thus they get less revenue to use in the economy, so watch this space for the government to readdress this in-balance. For me 90% of my charging is done at home and higher mileage range cars will be the norm when making the future purchases which will reduce the need for public charging stops.
well some people are getting ripped off for unleaded, I drove over 1600 miles in the last 10 days and the most I spent on unleaded was 161.9p and the lowest was 157.9p
Charge points are now closed near me! The local council had 6 x 22kw charge point near me (although a bit out of the way) that I called into yesterday. It was dead and is no longer on the Podpoint network map. Clearly no longer viable, but the have spent a rediculus amount on painting green cycle lanes on the roads and making clcle lanes that cyclists still don't use! And the Americans would say... "Go figure"
Just done an 850 mile trip. Cost me £48 in my IoniQ. Cost was from 0p at a multistorey car park to 57p. My old Vauxhall Corsa would cost £127.88 at current rate of £1.79
Is that on the 28kwh or the 38kwh Ioniq?
@@Detvix 38kwh
but it is much more expensive to buy than a corsa
@@kluk622 not by much in my case! Fuel savings are covering the loan. Plus it's a bigger and nicer car.
Depends where you buy your petrol from, £1.59 near me.
Well, charging is generally free if you want to. For example, every Tesco in my area has free chargers (up to 22kv) and you can find a lot of free charging options.
Great content. Add the price of the vehicle, battery replacement, service and calculations would change again. It shows we need a mix of vehicles in society. Just look at Royal Mail, will go bust chasing net zero.
EV's come with eight year battery warranties and the numbers of EV's having had a replacement battery is miniscule compared to the number of fossilsaurs, even in actual percentage terms.
But of course if you choose to believe the Daily Fascist and the likes of the discredited Clarkson you stick with dinosaur juice ...
Fuel prices have come down a bit and electricity up a bit since filming. My Audi etron 55 gets 2.2 up to 3.0 miles/kWh depending on the journey and conditions. But an equivalent fossil car like the Audi Q8 55 TFSi would achieve 27mpg. So even the most inefficient EV is cheaper to run than it’s petrol equivalent.
Thanks EVM. Just to give a few comparisons from my own experience of running an e-hybrid.
My Seat e-hybrid achieves 2.24miles/ kWhr...
To run on petrol bought at Costco- currently £1.55/litre, works out at 13.95p/mile averaging 50mpg, and I can claim the VAT back on that price for business use which saves an additional 20%. Currently my electricity at home is 28p +VAT per kWhr so at 2.24miles/kWhr which works out at 13.132p/mile driving very carefully. Driving as carefully on petrol I can achieve 58mpg which works out at 12.03p/mile... further offset by the VAT.
If you are lucky enough to keep your car on your own driveway and have the benefit of charging at home, rather than a street charger provided by your local council, I agree you can save significantly more money by charging overnight on 7.5p/kWhr, however fewer people in flats or terraced housing in towns and cities have the benefit of home charging.
Out of interest what is the day rate price per kWhr to offset the cheap nighttime rate on most Economy 7 tariffs?
Figured this out a while back so didn’t bother waiting a year from order for an EV again, ordered a petrol instead and delivery less than 6 weeks. I’ve had a hybrid for 4 years and was going to go EV but not the way things are and will stay for a good few years.
The only reason electric cars are currently cheaper to fuel is that they are subsidised. Seventy percent of the cost of petrol or diesel is taxes. The goverment are already gearing up to impose those taxes on electricity. All homes must now have a separate meter for car chargers and very soon the taxes imposed will be the same as ICE vehicles.
Currently the cost of petrol includes around 50% Duty and VAT costs. So presumably at some point when charging can only be done via a smart charger whilst at home, fuel duty will have to be added to EV charging costs. EV owners are not required to pay for road maintenance but I don't see that lasting for ever.
Yup no vel. Once electricity is in short supply and petrol and diesel are banned watch how quickly the government bangs 50% tax on evs
Good video as always. Charging at home is the cheapest and if from self generation very tax efficient. As you say, charging on rapid chargers is more like filling your car up at the services and therefore more expensive.
Has anyone noticed that we are now at the same point as when lpg was introduced for cars for electric ,
No way should rapids be more expensive than filling up a car. Just the case.
I just can't wait to own a longer range ev as I'll never have to use them. They seem equivalent to motorway fuel prices which you would just ignore.
We need rapids in similar locations to your Asdas where they are generally the cheapest places to fill up
The problem is electric prices. Osprey are only charging 83p in reality (the rest is VAT).
My friends business will be paying 92p kWh from November 1st.
So Osprey are probably making nothing at all out of this. I expect 99p or £1 to be normal across most networks.
I guess BP and Shell might use fossil fuel profits to subsidise EV charging! Who saw that coming! 😂
Have to admit after a year with my amazing Dacia bi-fuel, Arnold Clark gave me a deal i couldn't refuse virtually all my money on the Dacia against a two year old Zoe GT LINE At £15k 9,000 miles. Emaculate condition, had it for two months its everything i wanted in a car amazing, I'm charging at work at 6p a mile. And soon I'll be able to charge at home for 2p a mile. But if an EV doesn't fit your needs you won't go wrong with a Dacia Bi-fuel.
Osprey have just increased their price to £1.00 per KW, how much longer before the others increase their prices, as you say if you can charge at home then it can be cheaper even using standard tariff, set to increase in October of course, but we need cheaper EV's and re-instate government help to buy one, I'm waiting until 2024 when cheaper models will be launched for the masses
I find this video somewhat out of date considering it was only done a week or so ago. Petrol in the south west is mainly down to below £1.60 per litre. Instavolt chargers in my locality are 66pkw/h. Thankfully, like many other ev owners I am able to charge at home on the Octopus cheap rate. I await with interest to see what price they will charge when the new rates are revealed!
I took my model Y to the south of France in June (1,800 mile round trip). My calculations are that it cost me £250 if all charging was at Tesla superchargers. In reality a small part was at cheaper rates at the place we stayed. It would have cost me £375 with my previous diesel MPV. The equivalent milage charged at home on the Octopus cheap night rate is £25 (soon to be £37.50).
I took my Zoe to the south-ish of France in July (1037 miles) and the total cost for electricity was £48.20. I estimate my previous diesel car (C5 2.0 litre) would have cost about £187.
That telsa price difference buys an awful lot of dead tree juice however ;)
@@stuartburns8657
"However" if you compare the "Tesla price" to a car of similar performance, in a similar market niche....
Model 3 performance, BMW M3? The BMW is £18k more.
@@rogerstarkey5390 Very true, when I was looking to order my Model 3, I did a cost comparison with a BMW 3 Series on the BMW website and once I’d added all the gadgets that were similar to the basic M3 SR+ that I was ordering, the. MW was way more expensive.
@@rogerstarkey5390 oh indeed Roger. Some however compare a modest cost ICE to a 40-50k EV and scream how great the 'savings' are
I honestly think uncapped public charge prices will cripple the transition.
Great video and very helpful as i’ve just picked up my new Hyundai Kona this week. I don’t have a home charging port and been wondering what/ how to get the best deal when charging. Do you have a link or video or advice on how to get started about this.
One thing I note reading the comments is there is a lot of doom and gloom about "future taxation of EVs". Although this is a possibility, there is also the possibility of lower electricity rates long term as we move away from fossil fuels, there are already discussions ongoing with renewable energy generators to change the market model.
On top of that, we are very close to the roll out of V2H/V2G, combined with smart meters there is a massive change in energy pricing coming. Balancing the grid as EV ownership grows is only going to help keep costs of electricity down as we can make the most of the renewable generation and use even less fossil fuels.
These are all predictions of course but it's all being discussed, planned and developed as we speak. Don't forget that although fuel prices have dropped in the last few weeks they historically never drop as low as they were and are likely to continue rising with possible further taxation as the Govt try to force people away from ICE...
I found charging on trips to be about the same, or more than gas. I discovered that when I started charging in 2016. As you say it depends on the situation.
My personal excel models show that petrol is still cheaper for the average person taking all the costs on himself (without subsidies or help with company cars etc).... Taking in upfront cost, fuel, tax, mot, maintenance etc etc
Motorway service fuel is generally 20p more expensive. Just driven from York to Kent and prices of fuel (Petrol) is generally > £2
For most people doing a long journey. the first 200 miles (ranger of car at high speed) should be at 2p/mile. Then anything beyond that becomes 15-20p/mile. You only need to buy on a rapid charger what you need beyond the range of your car... and that's if you can't find destination charging to where you're going. So rapid chargers for home owners should be very rare.
the thing is the infrastructure for ICE is very matured and developed while we are lead to believe that buying EVs with almost "experimental" battery tech/materials would eventually pay off "when" the fast charging infrastructure is built up! Notice also the EV advocates mostly live in densely populated cities where the establishment are more likely to build EV charging infrastructure as well..
I live in a North Yorkshire village.
And how do you think things get developed? Overnight or overtime?
The problem is:
Those people who cannot charge at home costs will get higher.
Come 2030. We wont have a choice. If you want a new car it has to be an EV.
EV's are so much more expensive to initially buy.
That recharge time matters... Its time wasted. Ineed a 5 minute refill. I need to be able to pay cash too.
The last film I saw at the cinema was Blackhawk Down.
I dont visit the supermarket. I use home delivery and the things they cannot give me I walk to the local shops.
An EV simply doesnt work for me. Ive hired one to test... It didnt work. it cost me too much time, money and customers because it wasnt a direct replacement. I couldnt raise my prices up enough to also keep my customers and cover the shortfall.
Very clear analysis. Looks like the days of cheaper EV motoring are coming to an end.
Er, no. Definitely not.
We wouldn't have bought a fossil car 3 weeks ago (we have been car free for over 20 years) but having done the numbers the EV running costs are a fraction of a petrol or diesel car. And so we bought one.
@@michaelgoode9555
So how much did you pay for the car?
you missed something out ... parking fee. I went to a public charging station. did the thingy process to start. went for a bit of shopping, came back 2 hours later ... charging fee : 5 quid ... parking fee (nearly as to make no difference) ... 20 quid. somehow this makes me real sad, as i can't remember the last time i was charged parking when fueling my vw diesel
It was always said that 80% off EV charging is done at home. if that is still true, then EVs are still much cheaper to run on average.
I drove to Switzerland last week... Swansea to Interlaken. 1748 miles round trip which took 38 gallons of 98/99 ron e5 unleaded (46mpg) = £272. I did NOT fill up in Switzerland. As always a bit of planning can save a fair chunk of change, petrol, diesel or electric. The lighter the vehicle you drive compared to other similarly fuelled vehicles the cheaper it it to 'fill' up.
Interesting. We did a similar journey in our Model 3 several weeks ago 2100 miles and cost £ 200 in charging. We had 1 free overnight charging included in our journey. That probably saved around £ 35. Very similar costs as your journey.
Ice fuels highly subsidised , remember in USA going to the shop could be three times further than in uk
Hi EVM, do you have the link to the video you mentioned for people? I don't see the link or card. Some may prefer that dependent on whatever suits them. Thanks.
I realise you’re working with averages, we paid £1.58 a litre for petrol just yesterday, looks like EV car drivers are starting to pay a premium for rapid charging. Good information to share though
Where did you get 50 MPG from???? Avg town driving is around 25MPG and the combined average is around 30-40MPG. Most cars on the road are not the new ultra efficient modern ones that can hit 60MPG+. I mainly use my car for town driving only and get around 22.4MPG.
Joanna.... Got a lot of respect for fellow lead footed drivers! I have a BMW 335i petrol. If I drive it with "enthusiasm" I get 27-28 mpg. Not great. If I drive it as someone of my age should do... then 30 mpg is possible but very very dull. Your less than 23 mpg, is to be celebrated!
@@qcope LOL, Mine is just a 2010 Mazda 2 Sport. It doesn't matter how I drive it the best I ever got was 23.6MPG in town, which is the only place I use the car. Lots of stop start and traffic.
It’s a mistake. The 50 mpg figure averages in EVs (eMPG). Petrol and diesel average 36 and 38 respectively.
I have a Fiat 500e and put together a little spreadsheet to compare to an ICE Fiat 500. I used Fuelly to get an idea of real world mpg and erred on the side of caution (better mpg than most report) at 40mpg. In the summer, I get 4.3 to 4.5 m/kwh and about 3.5 in the winter so used 4 as an average. My break even is over 80p/kwh.
Ultimately it is for each individual to assess whether they are better with an ICE car or an electric car.
I have had a Corsa e for about 8 months now. On a pcp deal it costs me about £60 per month more than the equivalent spec ICE car.
I love it, it is comfortable, quiet and very nippy.
My journeys are mainly local with the odd motorway run.
I have a home charger and I'm lucky enough to be on a fixed deal of 0.18kwh and also have two retail parks nearby that have free charging points. I use the free chargers mostly and this provides me with most of my 'fuel' needs.
I will review it next year but at the moment all is good.
In winter that 3.75 miles per kWh drops by around 30%+ Your average petrol price is skewed by motorway pricing, motorists can refuel off the motorway...£1.65 or less near us.
That average includes winter, that’s how averages work. Summer is higher, winter is lower. Then you ended up with an annual average.
Fuel works the same. Some higher, some lower. 🤷♂️
Good video for giving people a rough idea.
I’ve had an Ev for over 5 years & I love them.
I disagree that we haven’t reached a crunch point yet tho , Like I said great video to give people a rough idea on the comparison between ice cars & Ev’s. I’m not here to criticise but to give an honest opinion & I know it takes days to make a video so prices can be out. People need to do there own calculations to see if it’s cheaper for them to run an Ev over a ice car.
As I live in the West Midlands the fuel prices are a bit lower eg Esso by me is £1.57 per litre for petrol & £1.76 for diesel. So Petrol is 14.1 ppm & a diesel is 15.8 ppm so going on the lowest one you listed Gridserve at 50p per kw a car like a Tesla that averages 4 miles per kw the price cost per mile is 12.5 ppm. But if you go on an Audi Etron or Jaguar i pace of 2.6 miles per kw they cost 19.2 ppm far more than the average ice car & that’s based on the gridserve 50p per kw , Osprey have just announced there price increase to £1.00 per kw & I think we all know that the rest will follow suit & put there prices up to , as the government Cap doesn’t apply to Businesses & Companies.
So based on this new rate of £1.00 per kw a Tesla would cost 25 ppm & an Audi or Jaguar 38.4 ppm plus everyone remember you pay at least £7000 more for the electric version of your Ev & if your looking at a Mercedes eqc that jumps up £30,000 more than the ice version.
I must add tho if you can charge at home at the moment it is still cheaper to drive an Ev.
But that is only because the government has placed a two year cap on it. That will end , So for the next two years you will be ok charging at home & if you have a good solar system it will make running a Ev very cheap still.
So so the calculations your self & see if it’s worthwhile paying the extra thousands of pounds over a ice car for you.
My personal view is unless you go for an efficient Ev like a bmw i3 or a Renault Zoe it’s not worth jumping , Tesla are not the best cars but are still the best Ev’s.
But with there price hikes they are just to expensive for what you get.
A model 3 standard range should really only be around £35,000 max not the £48,500 it is now.
There are far better buys with the same range out there like the new Mg 4 that is only £28,500 for a long range 281 miles range & Mg range figures are pretty accurate unlike Tesla’s so the Mg should do either the same miles as the Tesla or better. And it’s £20,000 cheaper.
"Petrol is 14.4 p per mile" for what car, with what mpg?
You were playing with the EV figures, but not the ICE?
@@rogerstarkey5390
I based it on his figures of average ice car of 50 mpg.
I’m not trying to put down Ev man or Ev’s , I have owned Ev’s for over 5 years & I love them.
The below is based on real world prices & my own personal experience & yes in wales I could have plugged into an Ac charger there were a few around only charging between 0.38p per kw to 0.48p per kw but I didnt want to sit there for two hours for just a 25% charge to save a few pounds. And yes I could have drove at 56 mph on the motorway to increase my miles per kw & turned to heater off but that’s not me.
I’m just trying to inform people of the true cost of owning a Ev nowadays because most dealers who sell you them don’t tell you the truth. The world of Ev ownership has changed so much over the last 12 months.
My car at home 12 months ago cost to fill up from 20% to 80% £2.80 now for the same charge it’s £15.20 a massive increase of around 500% & yes it’s still cheaper then running an ice car just about. But out & about charging is where Ev’s are falling down if you not paying a monthly fee. I recently went to South Wales & as most Ev owners are aware Ev charging is wales is limited , it’s much better nowadays than it was but my only real options were Dragon chargers were I was & they cost me £0.65 per kw. I added up my cost of my journey including home charging & it worked out if we had gone in my mrs jaguar F pace 3.0 diesel which average only 43 mpg on the same journey I would have saved £3.00 using the ice car.
My i pace averaged 2.5 miles per kw driving it in normal mode at normal speeds eg speed limits & using the air con / heater as I drive & treat it like a ice car. A full charge on the dragon charger cost me £59.00 & I got just 220 miles on that my mrs F pace would do around 360 miles on the same amount of fuel.
So to conclude my point
A Jaguar i pace starts at £66,350 & will do roughly 220 miles on a charge & costs on a standard tariff at home to charge from 0 to 100% £25.20 & £62.10 on an ionity charger for 220 miles.
A Jaguar F pace which is slightly bigger starts at £46,250 that’s over £20,000 cheaper to buy. That costs to fill up £95.00 for an average of 580 miles so charging my i pace at home for the same 580 miles would cost me £68.00 saving me £27.00 every 580 miles but if I charged at an ionity charger the same 580 miles would cost me £162.00. And if you go off the new prices eg Osprey it would cost £238.00 for 580 miles.
People also say Ev are cheaper to service , but not so my i pace cost £400.00 first year & £500.00 second year my mrs F pace first year was £325.00 & the second year was £475.00 also the i pace is more expensive to insure. But the ice pace is tax free were the F pace is £175.00 a year.
These are real world figures not made up ones. So when you are going to buy an Ev look at what mileage you do & what the average miles per kw of the ev your looking at & what you will be paying at home for charging & look at the places you go in the uk & charger options & prices plus look at main agents service prices because Ev don’t really need to be serviced but if you don’t have them serviced you will lose you warranty. So do the maths & see if an Ev is right for you. But take note if the government does nothing Ev chargers prices will go up to £1.00 a kw in October & maybe even more in January so be careful on what you decide.
If you have a solar / battery system at home or free work charging it’s a not brainy an Ev will still save you money.
@@pauljames2407 I pay 9p/kwh, nothing can beat that.
I own a VW Up, I have saved SO much money, not buying into the EV nonsense at present
In the USA, currently most non-Tesla rapid chargers are 75% more expensive than gas (petrol) when comparing a 50 mpg ICE vs 3.75 mi/kwh EV. Charging at home is about 60% less expensive than gas, though. The numbers are better if you pick a more realistic mpg ICE car at 31 mpg and my more common EV mileage of 4.2 mi/kWh in the warmer months. Then rapid chargers are about the same price as gas, and charging at home is 1/4th the cost of gas.
I prefer efficiency in wh/km or wh/mi and Bjorn has talked about the reasons in a previous video of his in using this unit of measure. The other cost not factored into your calculations is the health cost and environmental cost for fossil fuels perhaps a pollution tax on it that would include electricity generated using fossil fuels over renewables.
i have driven an EV for 18 months and i got my car pretty cheap compared to current prices. if you stay within cars range they are good but if you travel far then they are a pain tbh.if you can charge at home then an ev is worth it but if you cant charge at home then dont bother.you pay more for the car and public charging is getting stupidly expensive . the lack of chargers is the main issue. either non or a handfull in each of the several seaside towns i have visited (0 in whitby and approx 10 in total in skegenss) its just not good enough for places that are visited by so many cars/EV's in the summer months.getting there on low charge then driving round for an hour slowly panicing as you range decreases only to find all the chargers full. i ended up at a 7kw tesco for 3hrs to get 25%. we dont have children but it would be even worse with kids in the car tired/toilet/hungry. leave it for 5-8 years. osprey are now £1 a KW and would image several providers wont be far behind.