Octopus energy currently gives you six hours through the night at 7.5p per kWh. A quarter of the 30p used in the test. Myself and everyone I know with an electric car will charge through the night, off peak. When filling up my petrol car with fuel, I wouldn't fill it at a petrol station that was 4 times more expensive! But charging your car at independent charging stations is ridiculously expensive and makes no sense.
No but there isn’t any mention of the cheaper charging costs that are available to those who can do it’s a bit of a skewed review and assessment of cost. What about mentioning for those that can and mentioning that there are cheaper public charging points. They’ve filled up at cheapest petrol prices, no mention of how much fuel is on motorways etc.
I want to say a big thank you for doing this video & others like it regarding the costs of running Ev's in 2023. As an Ev owner for a few years now ive seen a big change in the running costs of Ev's sky rocket. But there seems to be a sort of cult around a lot of Ev owners that always shout people like me down who are just trying to be honest around the true costs of Ev's in the UK. If a lot more people / dealers / manufactures dont start being more honest around Ev's I can see the Ev market totally collapse. People who are new to Ev ownership have a massive shock to the system in the first few months. Some of the major issues they encounter 1.THE QUOTED RANGE they are shocked in most cases that the car they have bought only does 200 miles instead of the 300 miles listed. 2. THE QUOTED CHARGING SPEED they are shocked again when there car takes double or triple the time to charge. No one tells them that the quoted range is rarely assessable & in some case a 300 mile car , can only really do 200 miles in the real world. No one also tells them driving at motorway speeds will lose them more miles of range or when the winter come they could lose 30% of there range. I bumped into a guy at Tesco who was struggling to charge his Mercedes EQC , After helping him download the App for the charger because the card reader wasn't working & showing him what to do. I found out he works in Dubai & the rental company at Heathrow had given him this Ev & said it was cheap to run. But after driving from Heathrow airport to here a total of 128 miles , He was shocked & in a bit of a panic as he got to the charger on 0% & couldn't get it to charge. He had rang the rental company to tell them there was a problem with the car , because when he had collected it , the range said 238 miles. They then told him Ev's aren't to good on motorways. I told him if you drive at real motorway speeds & have the climate on & generally treat it like a normal car you will lose range & 128 miles is most likely right , As those Mercedes only really do between 180 & 200 miles driving them efficiently. He was not a happy bunny also when the car was saying it would take 2 hours 28 mins to fully recharge on the 50kwh rapid charger & when I also informed him it would cost around £50.00 he said wow that's more than this journey would cost me in a petrol car , I thought Ev's were cheap to run. I said not any more. He said if this is the way it is , he will never buy an Ev. And you can't blame him as I worked out how much petrol he would get for £50.00 at Tesco where we were & it would be 8.3 gallons so that journey cost him the same as a petrol car that only did 15.4 mpg. People need the whole truth around Ev's They need to know the real world range of the cars summer , winter , motorways speeds plus the real world charging times & the difference between AC & DC charging plus speeds. And the true cost of using public chargers. Plus the real costs of charging at home. People talk a lot about cheap night rates & one of the most popular ones gives you 4 hours of charging at only £0.10p per kwh , But what they dont tell people is that 99% of home chargers can only supply 28 kwh in that 4 hour window , So if your driving say a i pace & only averaging 2.3 miles per kwh you will only top up your battery by around 64 miles max during that cheap rate. plus no one also mentions you can lose up to 15% of the electric your charge for by the transfer & conversion from AC to DC that your cars does. And that for the other 20 hours of that day which includes all peak times you are paying an extra £0.08p to £0.10p per kwh. So even when not charging your Ev its costing you money. Then there the purchase prices because Ev's version of a petrol car costs in most cases at least £9,000 to £25,000 more normal people who finance there cars are paying thousands more in interest charges which even if you can save a bit on your day to day running costs far out ways any savings by a few thousand. Like one of my friends who sticks to the cheap night rate charging & drives according & his Ev is very efficient , he averages 3.8 miles per kwh & he saves around £900 a year based on him doing 10,000 miles. But because his Ev cost £16,000 more than the petrol version he pays a lot more in interest charges & its roughly £1200 a year in extra interest charges. So he isn't really saving a penny. O and a few myths to ignore Ev dont need servicing or are cheaper to service , Technically they dont need servicing but 99% of dealers require it every 12 months & at least for the first 5 years you might only save pennies as most dealers charge roughly the same to service an Ev compared to a petrol car. Plus Ev are more to insure over there petrol models. Road tax any Ev newer than 2017 April will pay road tax at the starting rate of £180 I think. O and dont forget the cost of a home charger min around £1200 Its a Crazy world in 2023
have to say it's still a crazy world in 2024. After being continuously attacked by two EV (Tesla) zealots on FB yesterday for discussing similar things it is indeed freshing to read an EV owner how it happy to discuss the good and bad and bigger picture of EV ownership
I am an EV owner who only drives locally 90% of the time I charge at off peak rates and using solar when nice and sunny .Its the cheapest car to run that I have ever owned .If I go on holiday I suck up the cost as its probably Once or twice a year .The car has lost £10000 in the year I have owned it admittedly, but I plan to keep it for a long time so I am not to worried.
@@katwat8682 same as a hybrid owner for many . these new tesla owner are so proud of their choice . my concern is the rising electric price and the rising maintenance when the BEV aged
Hybrid will still be on top bc EVs depreciate a lot faster than ICE and Hybrids for example I searched the Kia Niro and all the listings for the electric version from 2023 are below the starting price for the TX model while all the listings for the hybrid are at or slightly lower to the starting price
The PHEV should be ran in HEV mode if the distance exceeds the range available rather than just EV mode, because you are lugging around the battery and charging it with the petrol engine if drained completely, this way you should have costs around the same, if not cheaper than the hybrid.
I think the big issue with EV running costs are the difference between home and rapid charging. I have one on order and I probably do South Coast to Birmingham once a month. I will be able to charge at home for 7.5p per kWhr and at work for 11p, which makes the journey cost £8.33 for 280 miles
Don't forget that the cost of using public rapid chargers can be reduced by subscribing to the network you might use the most. The Ionity Passport for example, gets you around 30p per kwh off the cost of using their rapid and ultra rapid chargers. Other networks have their own subscription schemes too.....
Yes, this is horseshit. Why would you charge 100% when you could just charge enough for the trip home and then use your cheap home rate? Also how often would you need to make a 280 mile journey?
I could do that trip for £20 in my much cheaper small petrol BHEV. Would never be cost effective to go all electric at that and all the hassle that comes with it. 2 mins max and I'm refilled for another circa 600 miles.
That’s works out perfect for you. Sadly, many ev owners are paying a lot more. It would seem electricity prices have tripled, but fuel has actually come down narrowing the gap.
I have a company car so I log all my miles. I have just changed from an ICE to an EV. My EV costs £160 a month less than the ICE for the same mileage and that’s using a standard electricity tariff. It would be cheaper if I used an EV tariff @ 7.5p per KW. As it’s a company car I save about £170 a month in tax vs the last ICE car too. It is a more expensive car to buy though. Also i get 340miles real world range from my car, so it could have done that journey in one charge.
I’m the owner of a full ev in Ireland. Regularly have to drive from Dublin to Galway. Before i used a Diesel and at €1.60ltr it would equate to around €35 for a return trip, not including tolls. I charge over night to full capacity for these trips it costs €9:38 on the nighttime saver charger plan. Tolls are reduced for EVs 50% less at peak times 75% less off peak. The long range vehicles are expensive but savings can be made.
@@snoopycharlie8718 That was also my question when I read this too. It is a 250mile round trip. There still aren't that many affordable EV's with that range and lets be honest it doesn't just stop with the round trip does it... there's always some deviating from the route and some running around when you get there... Even if the car can actually deliver 280-300 mile range, thats going to be an anxious last part of the journey, with the heater or AC turned off LOL
@@TheComputec when I drive to Leeds, I plug the car overnight and it is fully charged to go back home. Sometimes , I stop for 10 min comfort break on the way adding 70-150 miles in that time in my 'tank' especially when with kids.
@@yuriy81uk average out the additional cost of buying an EV over an equivalent ICE car over the typical three year ownership cycle and then work out how much money it has saved you
2 notes I'd add as an EV owner myself: 1 that electricity was expensive. Many others are cheaper, esp with subscriptions which you quickly save money on (Fastned Ionity Tesla, etc) 2 When you took the break at the turnaround, THAT is when he should've charged. May very well have saved him the need to stop to charge. It's not uncommon to need to pee, get a drink and or eat at one of these breaks. That time adds up and you might as well charge the car.
@kimjaeger4399 none of those brands mentioned are affordable to most people. I personally would not pay north of €32k for a car, new or otherwise. And that's with equity in my current car. A mini for €40K with hardly any buttons and what looks like a second-hand panty pad for a dashboard. F that.
@@aacmove sorry if I wasn't clear, those are only the brands I know of that do it now. But more are getting better with route planning. German and Korean brands in particular from what I've seen. In time Ford and Stellantis will join and the tech will trickle down to cheaper cars.
@@aacmove Route planning is a solved issue. This is just a software issue and lots of manufacturers improve their software over time, even for used EVs. Soon every EV will have decent route planning. And even for the remainder: There are apps for that, where you just plug in some details and your destination and the only thing you have to worry about is what kind of fast food you get at that charging spot.
I’d love to know if there is a difference in the monthly insurance cost for the three cars - that might tilt the balance away from the electric vehicles.
Im in the US so it may not compare to UK and the cars arent similar, but I have a 2011 Silverado which I pay $390 for annually for 3000 miles coverage and a 2023 Bolt EUV which I pay $530 annually for 9,500 miles coverage.
Wow! Charging prices are extortionate in the UK. I’m living in continental Europe and really expensive fast chargers are less than 65c here. My local 50KW charger is about 17c. Until the UK gets electricity prices cheaper, electric cars aren’t going to make much sense without a home charger.
Everything in UK is expensive. When you have a corrupt government, a prick of a London Mayor, and taxes that make sure you'll never get ahead of the game, we have no chance. The rich get richer and the rest of us suffer.
Point 1. Why charge it back to 100% on the way back. Only needs a 10min charge at those highway expensive chargers... (this is what they said at the beginning, then he ended up only charging for 30mins roughly apparently). Instavolt being one of the most expensive chargers to add. Would have made more sense charging in Birmingham when they all had a stop for a bite to eat and all would have got back at the same time, plus the cost of charging probably significantly less.
@@Mexi257 It wasn't that high speed though as he was, I think, on a 150kW which shares its delivery. Having made that point, he said the eNiro only went up to 75+kW anyway. I'd have charged at this price, just enough to get home with a few % to spare, part of the fun and it hasn't failed me... yet 🙂
If you'd charged up the phev and left it on hybrid/auto mode, instead of seeing how far it would go on battery alone, the fuel cost result would have been very different. There was no need either to fully charged the EV on the return journey. Did you decide the outcome you wanted to present before you actually did the test?
Electric cars pollute more than petrol cars & are less recyclable, try in the cold or hot weather , the figures will be far worse, electric vehicles are a con !
A lot of comments are saying that the comparison is invalid because they aren't taking into account special ev charging tariffs for home charging. These comments make a valid point, but the review is still relevant for a couple of reasons: A *lot* of people cannot charge at home because they don't have a driveway or allocated parking space with a charging point. The price per kWh you pay at service stations is ridiculous. This needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.
This also applies to Germany. You need to check the efficiency of your EV and need to have a contract with a charge point provider. My Model3 costs me about 0.13 € per mile on the highway. The average petrol car costs 0.2 € per mile. Without contract and in a less efficient car one can easily spent 0.3 € per mile on electricity.
I am an owner of an EV. From my experience, if you can't charge at home off peak hours then you shouldn't consider an EV. EV is only suitable for people whose daily journeys only uses 10-20% of the EV's charge capacity with only occasional long trips or best if you have a 2nd ICE car for long trips. I do only 20 miles round trip daily from work and charge with overnight fares. An EV is saving me a lot of money compared to my previous 30 mpg ICE car. For my ICE car, I had to top up 30-40 quid of fuel every week. My EV for daily work trips cost me less than 5 quid each week for overnight charging.
Is your 10-20% based on the 2 hour overnight cheap rate your electricity company gave you? 🤔 I'm currently on a day night rate 33c day, 10.5c night. But it's night rate from midnight to 9am. So I don't have to worry about trying to fit the charge into a 2 hour night rate window. 🤷🏻♂️
My daily EV commute is a 135 miles round trip, so about 55% of the battery. I don't have night rate so pay about 30p/kWh. It costs about 10-12 pounds a day, which i think diesel drivers will think isn't worth it. But the performance and comfort is likely not comparable. The fuel cost of a similarly speced petrol car (diesels don't exist in this segment) would be eyewatering. Anyways, just wanted to point out that long daily commutes are completely doable in a decent EV.
I would urge people to consider likely future costs as well. If EV vehicles ever reach 50% of all vehicles on the road I don't think an off peak cheap electricity rate will exist. Also as petrol and diesel vehicles reduce the government lose lots of tax (the cost of a litre of petrol or diesel is mostly tax). That lost tax will switch to EV which will make them even less affordable. Many people don't buy new cars. A used economical petrol makes more sense for many. Who would buy a 10 year old used EV? For EV to make sense I feel the price of the vehicles needs to reduce dramatically. Many can't fit solar panels on their roof and in winter they might not generate enough electricity for some people (those who do 70 miles a day or more). I get the sense that the politicians are beginning to realise their aims for phasing out ICE aren't feasible. Not enough public chargers and a public who simply don't want to buy EV. Some German and Japanese car makers are openly looking at alternatives like lab fuels and hydrogen.
@@EwanM11 ahhh I did the 24hour rate myself for the first year and have noticed the savings on the night rate. I agree the comfort and performance is great in an EV 👍
@@GaryBox i expect prices to come down as the supply chains for batteries ramp up to meet demand. China is a much bigger market than the UK and they are further along in their adoption of EVs so we'll benefit from global economies of scale. The battery supply chain was sized for the laptop market, so it needs to grow by a factor of about a thousand. Battery costs have come down a lot in the past 10 years and will continue to decline. 2030 may seem ambitious but a lot can be done in 7 years. The Tesla model 3 didn't even exist 7 years ago and they're everywhere now.
I think the real takeaway here is that you should only charge at home wherever possible. If you are lucky enough to have a solar roof then this could be an even bigger delta
This. Most people don't do long distances that often either, so even if you had to pay the ridiculous 75p per kilowatt because you couldn't plan to use a cheaper service nearby it wouldn't be often enough to really make a difference. Most EV owners charge exclusively at home, and they wouldn't likely be paying 30p as they'd change tariff - and that's before even looking at things like solar (perhaps with home battery) to further reduce the electricity costs. Such a setup would become more economically sound if you had an EV, so you'd save on your home energy costs too.
@@JonathanMorris777 Sounds great. What about people who don't have a drive? In London thats a majority too so they are stuck with public charging at all times. Its also ignoring what the extra cost of the car means in real terms because an extra ~£8k is going to attract interest or if you pay it outright you are missing money you would otherwise be investing. Either way its another cost. Then there is the inconvenience factor. These guys got lucky in that they pulled up, straight on a charger and it was all working. I've owned ev's since 2010 and from experience I know thats certainly not always the case but even presuming things go well its still another half hour standing about for nothing. Would you go to work for half an hour for free? How about once per week? How about once per day if you have a decent commute or can't afford a car with a large enough battery to cover your trip? Oh and solar - again sounds great if you have a roof of your own, don't mind forking out a good few grand and if your insurance company doesn't then hit you with a much higher premium. Or you could just save around £15k between the car and solar and all the rest and drive the hybrid - regardless of where you live.
@@JonathanMorris777 Then you have to factor in the cost of a home battery wall plus solar...and of course charging overnight at home without a battery means it wont be even approaching free.
Not really realistic on the long run to add the whole charge of the Instavolt KWH if they weren't used on that journey.. that's like adding the cost of a full tank of petrol even if the fuel was unused - not really comparing apples with apples..
to get that answer you would have to start by the beginning by knowing how much CO2 you get for the petrol extraction, transformation and transport then burning that petrol in your combustion car. On the other side you have to know how much CO2 you get in the atmosphere from the mineral extraction required to build the batteries plus transport at each steps of fabrication and most important how much CO2 generated to get the production of the electricity required to charge that car and this last detail depend a lot of where you live. I am sure I am not mentioning a lot of potential CO2 issues in both cases.
The electric had the most.... it starts with aronud 90 000 mile sbefore it starts up the first time plus depending on the electricity sourc etimes 2 at the charging stations on the same route than a conventional car.
I live in SW France in the French countryside, lots of hills and very winding lanes. I use my electric car a new version Dacia Spring Expression for shopping, taking the dog out, visiting friends etc. It costs me €6 for a complete fill at home (box charger on house). But normally I follow the 80% rule. It is capable of doing just under 300 km in the summer on one charge, and far less in our winters which are mild until Jan/Feb. It suits my needs perfectly, the nearest petrol station is about 17 km away, so saves me that. Plus Macron extended the scrapage scheme to the end of this year, so I got €5000 plus €2500 for my very old Toyota Yaris Verso diesel. Job done. Very happy with it. Does 99% of what I want, and for the other %1 I would hire.
@@MoNsTeRhOaNg Why would the Op need a special contract? France didn't privatise its electric grid, and has capped electric prices at, I believe 2cents per kWh. In Spain, where I live, we had a cap for a while, but we're back to "Normal" pricing. It's only the UK and Germany that have ridiculous electricity prices, both self inflicted.
@@davidcolin6519 Lol, no. A simple search reveals that the cost of a KwH in France is 25.16 Euro cents. Cheaper than the UK, but still over two times the price you claimed.
We run a fully electric car and a petrol car. We find for day to day running, work, and back etc, the electric car is much cheaper, but we have given up on using the electric for long journeys. The cost and inconvenience of public charging and finding chargers that are faulty has put us off.
Why did the BEV have to charge up so much to just get back to the start point? The other cars didn't top up their tanks when they got back. So confused how this was comparable.
Because the EV's range was less than the overall journey, but, the EV driver could have done it better, and he admits this himself - when they went for lunch in Birmingham, both the PHEV and EV driver should have found somewhere to plug in while they ate, and if the EV driver still needed some juice on the way back, he should have only put in just enough to get back, he put in at least twice what he needed to, costing him lots of time and money.
I have had an EV for 3 years now both the first the ENiro now The Niro EV both great cars. I manly charge at home at 7.5p per KW I would say 95% of my miles are done from home charging. The rest being done on longer trips and only using public charging to top up enough to get me home. Depending on your annual mileage you can save several hundred pounds a year on fuel costs also the costs of services.
Strangely since 2023 I can do my first 250+ miles in my EV for £6. I pay 7.5p per kW when charging (in the day as well thanks to octopus intelligent). I wonder if this video is designed to make us argue about reality when they're skewing results? It'll be more accurate driving from the UK to Greece and back, but most of us don't do that trip? Consider if I only charge at home & drive 200 miles per day (£5), that's 73k miles PA. £1825 PA. Compare against a petrol Kona 2L TGDi. Mileage: 73,000 mile(s) Fuel type: Unleaded Fuel price used for this calculation: 143.54 pence per litre Mpg used for this calculation: 32.80 MPG Total fuel cost: £14435.10 I think people need to consider their actual driving, not fictitious driving.
You do need to offset the cheap rate with the increased rate for non-off peak electricity that you use. You'll find that the saving is not what you think. I've done my maths, and concluded not to go for Octopus, but use slow charging combined with solar panels and off peak charging with another supplier. Octopus is not so silly as to give you something for nothing.
Mate, you don't have to justify why you bought your EV. It's totally your choice and if it works for you then fair play. But for me the extra cost of a new EV compared to the miles I travel it would end up costing me. Plus the depreciation of the EV is so high that you have to factor that in. As well as the devastating effect the mining and production of the EV has on the environment I just can't buy into this "green energy" mullarkey. Many traders won't buy EV's due to them not making enough money on the secondhand market. And while many people are saying "no, my EV is worth £XX when selling" that's a trade in price against a new EV. The actual value of just selling them is much lower because people aren't buying them. Your servicing costs should be much cheaper but for some reason they're not. My friend's Renault Zoe first service was nearly £500. Why???? I have two cars, one classic and a 3.0 TDi Audi. Both of those combined are still cheaper for me to run than one EV. (And the classic is appreciating not depreciating.) But that's just my personal situation. Petrol here is currently 137.9 and diesel 139.9.
@@Mike_Ockiner As I said, I bought a cheap second hand EV for £11,000 because we need two cars for the family. I chose an EV simply because it is very cheap to run with my solar panels and off-peak charging only. As for servicing, it cost me £100 to £150! Your friend had been fleeced by Renault!
You have a choice with a 650 mile diesel of where you buy your fuel ( cheap supermarkets ) With a short range EV you generally can't on a long run and are caught by the motorway vultures.
The use of 30p per kWh for home charging is not sensible. Anyone who owns a PHEV or EV and can charge at home should have a EV electricity rate. I have had my Tesla Model Y for a year, done about 12000 miles around 10500 on home charging (7.5p), about 500 on the public network (~75p) and about 1000 miles on Tesla's Supercharger network (~40p). My energy usage has cost me less than £700 for a year's driving, it about £2k less that my previous petrol ICE car. My previous ICE car was a lot cheaper than my Tesla, so I'm still out of pocket, but very happy nonetheless.
@@davidm7237 7.5p compared to 30p is actually a quarter of the price. Imagine paying 100p per litre of petrol at a motorway services compared to 25p elsewhere, that's the difference and that's the margin that this video gets it wrong. It's either woefully uniformed or it's designed to maliciously manipulate their viewers.
This uses the price cap for charging whereas most people who invest in an electric car will be paying 10p per kWh on an off peak charge rate. This alters the numbers significantly for the around town driving/short commute, which if is a majority of your use changes the value proposition significantly for the phev and the ev. You should also factor in the savings on servicing or lack of.
@@Markcain268 to make the numbers easier I used 10p as the OVO anytime tariff which doesn't increase your day rate. As opposed to 7.5 with octopus which does.
You should also include the difference in insurance groups. The hybrid is 20-21*, the PHEV is 23 and the EV is 28-29*. Depending on your age that could make quite a difference per year. (* Dependent on trim level)
I was about to make this point! I know someone with a Tesla model Y who's in his forties and pays £1400 a year to insure whereas I pay less than half of that for a CLS63 at 30. I don't know whether it would be as extreme on a Kia niro but definitely worth considering! The other item is tyres which are generally much more expensive for EV tyres. On the flip side maintenance and servicing is cheaper for the EV!
As mentioned above the charge at home rate is 7.5p per kh, the Nero would only have only needed a small top up at a rapid charger, therefore the EV cost would be a quarter of the cost quoted. My EV would have done the Mway journey on less than a full home charge and cost less than £6.00. While not everyone can charge at home, most EV drivers do and use an EV tarrif. In 18 months with my current EV I have only used public chargers about a dozen times for my mostly Mway driving. As a result I find the reporting less than honest.
The maths on the EV makes no sense. 75% of the motorway journey was done on the home electric before charging yet the calculation showed only about 34kwh vs 50+ for the public charger to do the last 25% of the journey. This makes absolutely no sense. Also comments about time of day tariffs are relevant and would make it much cheaper too. This is very poor journalism. Are they just Ill informed or sponsored by BP?
The point of this test was a direct EV / PHEV / petrol-only comparison - hence they picked three otherwise identical cars. It wasn’t a model-vs-model comparison. Enjoy your 13 year old Prius! ❤
To be fair, the whole f*cking POINT is to stop burning f*cking FOSSIL FUELS. The world is literally starting to roast itself in its own fossil fuels and you guys are worried about the cost of running electric cars because your own government, ably supported by "Journalists" like this WANT you to keep burning those fossil fuels.
There is one BIG difference between a stramlined Prius and a metal box like a KIA. The amount of air you have to move over. And that you pay. Let's enjoy our Prii.
Sadly new Prius not being sold in the UK, but my 18 year old one took me to Leeds and back last weekend, still got 58.6mpg on the journey. I’ll be sorry when it finally bites the dust.
@@alexwhite2791 I really don't see that as being particularly spectacular. My Clio diesel from 2007 gets 58,9 mpg all the time, and that would be better on a long run.
I'm a petrol and diesel car owner (at the moment) and while the test is useful and has it's merits its also fairly inaccurate to the majority of EV drivers. Home charging can be had for as little as 7.5p per KWH which is 4x cheaper than the figures used in the test and would have made the city drive cost just 79p. The EV driver also put more electricity than he needed to on the public charger so again, there could have been less at £0.75p per KWH and more at 7.5p per KWH.
That of course also would have made his stop a lot quicker , (which was a complaint in the clip) .. basically by the time he had gone in for a wee stop and grabbed a drink it would have been ready to go again.
I drive a 2022 Toyota RAV4 HEV and on the motorway it will return an easy 56mpg, driving in slow city traffic it returns at least 66mpg (a journey lasting just over an hour for a distance of 26 miles) - I have seen 108mpg for shorter distances in stop start traffic.
I disagree with the home change at 30p. I can do full charge at 9.5p per kWh giving me well over 200 miles and it cost about £7. Public charging is expensive but like said it was not necessary to put a full or almost full charge for a remaining 80 miles. There is a learning curve with EV driving which one still try figure out, but if your smart you will reap the benefits
Take depreciation into account and with an EV, you are burning money faster than throwing your wallet on the fire. That is if you can find a buyer to take your battery degraded EV off you at all. They are standing on dealer forecourts for weeks at a time, some dealers will not even stock them now after being burnt so badly.
It would be good to see someone do an article on how to get the best from your EV. There are lots of people now who are experienced EV owners and their learnings can really help new EV owners. Often, Dealers aren't actually helping new EV owners. This affects their enjoyment of their new car.
Ive owned a KIa EV for 9 months now and have used a public charger half a dozen times during my 8000 miles of use, the cost to charge at home is 7.5p which means i can do a 100 miles journey for about £2.00
Yh enjoy these good times, until more people join EVs and the government start putting tax etc on the electricity and when the grid gets crowded. Its cheap now bc not many got evs but when more and more moves to evs, the government loses tax money on fuel which they would need to get from electricity.
Here in the Netherlands you pay road tax based on the weight of the vehicle and the type of fuel and extra tax on petrol. plus additional purchase tax when purchasing a new car.😳@@paulgoudfrooij6561
The biggest take-away for me is how much gasoline one can buy if you are not paying the many thousand dollars extra for the EV or the PHEV. I pay 3.75 per gallon here. My current vehicle is 15 years old in perfect mechanical shape and has 160,000miles on the odometer. I won't be switching soon. But I consider the RAV 4 because of the extra room I don't have in my small car. I get 32 mpg in the city.
My apologies if this has been mentioned before. To realistically make a financial comparison among the three types, the maintenance costs and insurance costs should also be included. I believe that over time and mileage, the EV will prove to be the least expensive to run. I have a 2014 Chevy Volt that currently has 176 + thousand miles on the odometer. It still has the original brake linings and rotors (regeneration is cost effective, too). My total cost per mile to run this car has been $0.083US. That includes gasoline costs, electricity costs, maintenance costs (two additional sets of tires, 8 oil and filter changes, coolant changes, air filters, windshield wipers) and insurance costs. My lifetime miles per kWh is 4.3 and my lifetime mpg is 40.3. The Volt is a plug-in hybrid.
Also if you want to compare that way. How come you don't include life cycle cost. The cost to extract rare earth materials from the ground and cost of disposing harmful chemical materials? Purchase price is one thing, but u don't realise new EVs are heavily subsidised by government in all countries especially in China.
Consumer Reports released their annual car reliability survey on EV's from the past 3 model years. EV's had 79 percent more problems than conventional cars based on owner responses from more than 330,000 vehicles. Some of the most common problems EV owners reported are issues with electric drive motors, charging system, and EV batteries. Those are all big cost items. I've run across a few videos on UA-cam recently of EVs that had batteries fail to the point the entire battery needed replacing according to the dealership. Worst example was in Canada where a Hyundai dealership wanted just over $50'000 CAD to replace the battery in a 2017 Ioniq. That one made it to mainstream news. If there are parts that cost 3/4 of the entire cost of the vehicle that is a major issue for me moving to an EV.
@@GazzaDazzle Yeah that's true. To get the complete cost everything needs to be taken into account not only just expected operating maintenance. The issue is EV laws and regulations are still being figured out. The latest is Government procedures in some areas now state a damaged EV should be quarantined 15 meters from anything else due to the battery fire risk even if it was a minor accident. Storage at a repair centers/parking costs will be a lot given the space that would take. Its possible insurance wont cover some of this extra cost. I've heard that some people dont want EV's in parking garages mainly due to the fire risk when charging unattended and being in a confined space with fire hot enough to melt concrete and create structural damage. I was surprised to hear EV fires are around 1500C/2732F temperature. Electricity costs are also going up everywhere. EVs may cost a lot more in some areas to charge even from home in future. I think it will be some years before we see the true cost of owning an EV. I'm staying away from owning one for now.
I am shocked by the results. I am shocked how you managed to get such terrible efficiency from the BEV and why you didn't talk about: Cheap off peak electricity prices Zero road tax Reduced cost of serving Cheap EVs like the MG4
Talk about all of these things then you also need to discuss the elephant in the room when it comes to EVs - depreciation. Depreciation for EVs is quite shocking at the moment and will add significantly to the overall cost of running such a car.
Not everyone has access to cheap off-peak electricity prices in the UK, the servicing isn't reduced to a significant amount. MG4 is a cracking car though. My aunt has this Niro PHEV and hasn't visited a petrol station since she got it - she does really short journeys but likes the thought of being able to do a longer journey every now and then if she needs it.
@@spectralcav there’s a clue there ‘at the moment’. I bought new 6 months ago and dealers were selling nearly new ones for not much off list price due to the shortages. We also sold my wife’s petrol mini back to mini for a ridiculous price. There has been a correction but I’d be fairly confident it will level off over time.
So why did you not charge while you were in Birmingham getting your coffee probably would have got the change required for the return journey in that 15 to 20mins?
Now I own a kuga 2.5L 230bhp PHEV and I do just over 40miles round trip to work and back and my average mpg is 117mpg so why is the Kia only getting high 50s? Using the kugas 2.5L engine alone gets 50 mpg I don’t get these numbers, is the kuga PHEV THAT much better? A single tank of fuel costs me £55 and I’m getting 1200miles from it before filling up again.
On the long run more power than required was put into the ev … so there should be a reduction in the cost of that trip … it doesn’t make sense / surely this is misrepresentative ? & no, I don’t have an ev
13:41 I dont understand why Neil used more energy from Instavolt vs his home. He charged on the return journey at Instavolt so surely he had covered more miles with his home charged energy. Why didnt you just simplify the comparison by using miles per kwh vs miles per gallon?
It would have been great if you had compared it to the cheapest overnight EV tariffs available, some are 7.5p/kWh overnight! Also if you can have solar panels on your house you can really bring the costs down long term!
That doesn't solve the points being made about those who cannot charge at home. Are you suggesting that only those with a driveway will be able to afford an electric vehicle. I live in a Town (Goole) with one of the highest council taxes in the whole of the UK far more than many London Boroughs where billions of UK tax payers money is being spent on transport infrastructure and according to my local MP or should I say local dimwit we pay more because there is a far bigger precentage of low cost housing i.e. many terraced streets that are usually filled with cars all day and night so where would they charge their cars? Also when does it become cheaper to drive an EV after the huge cost of buying an EV compared to ICE cars and also facturing the cost of having solar panels fitted?
@@macroman54 the government needs to do more to make elective cars a better solution for everyone. The point I make is that the numbers used in the video are flawed because anyone who can charge at home would charge at far cheaper rates than they quoted. Cheap overnight electricity tarrifs weren't even mentioned by them
Interesting to see some EV evangelists talking about cheap night rate electricity as if that makes everything OK. The higher purchase price and higher depreciation are a significant factor in cost. Plus the range anxiety and time wasted at public charging stations means EVs have a long way to go before becoming the first choice for many people. No wonder they are having to force them on us.
How would you come to the assumption that electrcars have higher depreciation that ice cars? Theres plenty of examples where those opposite is the case. I bet a high milage niro ev is a lot more expensive that the phev/hev variants…
Range anxiety is only an issue for those who don’t own an EV. For short trips it’s a non issue and for long trips you need a break every 2-3 hours anyway. It’s easy to do that at a charging station, just like you would do with your petrol car. And EV owners generally don’t waste time charging,, since they do it at night at home or close to home. Personally, I swapped both my cars for EVs. Much more comfortable, and cost effective.
@@benzo5799one example of a Taycan owner who has had his £120k car for 2 years has been quoted £51k to sell it. I would say that's serious depreciation. I have a Civic ehev, best of both worlds.
This video seems to have missed out the additional costs for EV's. Initially they are far more expensive than an ICE or Hybrid (which you did highlight) then there is the additonal cost of the wall charger plus installation. Also if you change your electricity supply to have the cheaper night rate then you also get additional charges for power used during the day. Also insurance costs are generally quite a bit higher for an EV. Then there is the rapid depreciation of EV's compared to ICE/Hybrids. When you take everything into account EV's are not as cheap to run as being touted by many.
And what is completely, completely constantly ignored, is all those living in flats, apartments, townhouses, etc., etc., with no ability to charge at home, and thus no other option but use the outrageously expensive public charging points. So again, if you are fortunate enough to own a nice house with off-street parking - well done, life has rewarded you again. But if you are young and/or financially less well off that you live in a property with no off street parking, YOU once again, are screwed with a higher expense to the benefit of those more well off. An absolute disgrace - utterly shameful.
Of course this does not apply to every flat or apartment building but, most apartment buildings provide you to a personal parking spot where you could put a charging dock. And most flats also have some charging stations for the whole building, which is of course worse than an own charging dock but better than having none at all.
@j800q I think you'll find most flats don't have charging facilities, there is no incentive for land Lords to install them, my own land lord refused when I had my EV and had no plans to. Also only one apartment block out of the 3 I have lived in had specific parking for my flat... EV for regular folk is unsustainable hence I am going back to PHEV, would go fully petrol/diesel but company car tax is a joke.
@@j800q lol. Most "expensive" apartments might provide you a personal parking spot. And "most flats" in the real world absolutely do not provide charging stations for the residents. I don't know what utopian complex you live in, but you sound really removed from the real world. Remember as well, a ton of flats, and tower blocks etc are council or housing association. The lift not stinking of pi*s is a blessing. Communal charging stations and personal parking spaces are science fiction in those blocks.
Ps. I forgot to mention the £8000 costt difference between the hev and EV. Equivelent of £51 per week over three years. Surely isn't that a free tank of petrol every week for the hev.
I too use Octopus Intelligent so only pay 7.5p / kW, but I have to agree, away from home charging costs are ridiculous making it less desirable to own an EV.
An interesting comparison for sure, although I wouldn't have thought many people buying an EV would just charge on a standard home rate. The vast majority will surely charge on a cheap overnight tariff, which swings the running cost easily back in the EVs favor.
Completely agree. These guys completely missed the point. They made all the rookie mistakes instead of telling people how you drive and charge an EV to get the savings.
@@tomm5936I think your taking your knowledge about driving an EV and saving on cost for granted. Most ppl are not gonna know all the details about maximizing cost per watt. If they have to go far and are unable to reach home on a single charge. they will be happy to use a public fast charger and will wait for a bit of extra charge to avoid having more range anxiety so they can reach home safely. Your knowledge puts you in a much small pool of EV drivers that can drive far distances without putting you at such a high expense.
@@LimitGTX it is true I look at it with the knowledge I have. I just feel these guys seem to on purpose do this the wrong way. I admit I am an EV fan and I wish they would at least try to do this the way an EV driver would. I know some people buy an EV without having a clue about how to optimize it and would do stupid things like this. I just wish the media would try to educate people instead of making themselves look stupid.
The previous comments are spot on about charging at home on a cheap rate and I think this was a point that should have been given more prominence in the video. Several suppliers offer EV tariffs. We bought a three year old i3s recently and so far it has had one third of the running costs for “fuel” than our previous similarly sized car. Also there are lots of memberships that give discounts on charging that are worth looking at.
Cheap overnight tariffs are non standard, so not at capped rates. During the day their rates are typically double the normal tariff, making your heating, cooking, and everything else twice the normal cost. So good luck with that.
I'm very fortunate. I have solar energy at home and that would change the figures on EV and PHEV quite a bit. After doing some sums of my own the PHEV works out better for me personally, Over 80% of our driving is very local , (20miles round trip) and I now have a new charge unit that can draw from the solar if charging in daytime instead of grid. So some of my electricity is free. And petrol engine gets used on the rare trips of 40 miles+. It's clear each person needs to crunch their own numbers based on individual use.
I wonder if you crunch TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) including servicing whether the numbers on a pure EV might work out better for you over, say 5 years, of motoring. If it's rare you do over 40+ miles then you are lugging a heavy petrol motor around a lot of the time. Love to have solar myself BTW ;-)
Solar is the go if you plan to own an EV. After 55000kms, I have spent less than 400AUD on ‘fuel’ and maintenance on my EV since buying in Jan 2020. And that included a 4000km road trip from east coast to West Coast Australis where I now live. Sunlight is free and abundant in WA. (I used to drive Mercedes., AMG and BMW in the past, but would never buy anything other than electric now).The driving experience on a trip is so much more relaxing, safer too as passing a 53mtr long road train is quicker than the AMG!
Interested to know how an eHEV would fare. From what I can tell eHEVs, like the new Civic (which use a petrol motor as a generator and electric motors at low speeds, and direct power from the engine via a single speed transmission at higher speeds) are more efficient since they leverage the two motor types at the peaks of their respective efficiencies; electric around town and ICE on motorway.
My E-HEV Honda HRV has averaged 64.6 mpg over 8000 miles since the beginning of February this year. 80% motorway 20% local trips. My friends Jazz e-hev has averaged 69.4 mpg over 11000 in 18 months 50% motorway 50% local. We are both very impressed with the running costs.
Makes me quite happy with my 2014 Tesla Model S with free supercharging. The old lady just did a trip from Denmark to Poland and back (around 2,200 km). Added more than 400 kWh of free electricity on that trip alone.
What this shows is that the public charging infrastructure is up to 10 times more expensive than charging at home and so electric cars make sense if you can charge at home… What I’m most shocked by is congestion charges that effectively create a rich people’s reserve. If you want to drive your enormous SUV into London you can if the charge doesn’t matter to you. It seems obvious that if congestion was really the reason for such a zone the results could be far better if vehicles over a certain size or energy consumption level were excluded from the area and if there were useful subsidies, tax breaks and other reductions in costs in order to get ordinary people into the most efficient ULEVs, as in Norway.
I've got a plug-in hybrid: a little Jeep Renegade. I was on a tariff which cost me 5p/kWh to charge up between midnight and 5 am. The range on battery is about 25 miles in Winter, 30 miles in the Summer. Work is 7 miles from home, so my daily commute cost me peanuts *and* I could travel for long distances if I had to, with all the benefits of regenerative braking (about 50 mpg running on petrol). BUT... my 5p per kWh tariff just ran out and my supplier wanted to charge me 20p/kWh for the night-rate. I'm in the process of switching to a cheaper company, but it's like swimming through treacle. The switch has been "pending" for a month. All the electricity suppliers can tell me is that there has been "an error". When I ask what the nature of the error might be, and how could it be rectified? I'm simply told that it's an "error in the system". If the switch goes through then I'll be paying about 11p / kWh to charge my car. I drive about 6,000 miles a year, or less. The plug-in hybrid was over £10,000 more expensive than the equivalent petrol model with the same specifications. I love my little Jeep. I'm really happy that I don't have to visit a petrol station more than once every two months. Nonetheless, it would, overall, have been cheaper to keep putting diesel in the old Land Rover. Less comfortable, perhaps, but just as much fun to drive. Arguably more fun. If the Government wants us all to drive EVs then it's going to have to (1) make it feasible by beefing up the electricty infrastructure and encouraging the installation of charging points - right now there isn't enough juice in the grid for us all to drive EVs and charging points are hard to find - and (2) make it cheaper to run on electricity than fossil fuel. Most people are not going to spend more money on buying cars that are more expensive to run. The environment argument is important.. but what is the enviromental impact of building, maintaining, and eventually recycling EVs compared to the enviromental impact of (say) keeping a 30 year-old Land Rover on the road?
3 mins into the video and already I have a gripe. Why stop at Banbury and charge to 100%?? If you plugged in for 15 minutes while you stopped in Birmingham for a coffee, there would have been no need to stop at Banbury. This is such a rookie mistake, thankfully you didn't go to 100%. You could have all arrived back at the same time. If you charged at home, not all can, a full charge would cost £5. A quick charge in Birmingham would be at most £10 which means a total of £15. Add another £5 at the very most for the next day and you have a total of £25 at most. Why use the max UK electric home price??? Absolutely no one I know with an electric car pays 30p per kilowatt to top up their car at home. This is nonsense.
I got this impression. I’m just starting to research an efficient switch to electric (and keep a tasty little classic on the side) and even I know that these rates are a joke. These are motoring journalists with experience running electric long-termers, they know this. Maybe it’s a test designed to appreciable to a particular, ie lazy, audience.
@@Whatshisname346unfortunately this really is extremely lazy journalism. The moment the young guy sighed when he realised he had the EV, I knew this was going to be a load of bollox. This is unfortunately misinformation.
Most people will charge at home or at work. Fast charging is only used for long trips. I’ve rode almost 80.000 km with EV so I can speak from experience.
@@SkaffenUKyes I think this will be a deciding factor. If you generally do small journeys and are based out of a semi detached/detached house, EVs will be no brainer currently. Beyond that, it starts to get difficult - or at very least to involve some serious forward planning.
My 11 year old petrol Golf does 42MPG on motorway, or about 50MPG at motorway at 60MPH. I do 10k miles per year. How many years would it take for an electric car to pay for itself? in fuel savings at current rates ? Since I don't have a crystal ball to know what electric or petrol will cost 5 years in the future or know what new technology is coming that might reduce the cost of electric cars I think the logical thing to do is drive my car till it's not economically repairable.
I have an EV that I use primarily for driving to work and running errands in town so I rarely charge it a a public DC fast charger. Since most of my mileage is from home charging, my running costs are very low.
I have a Clio hybrid and love driving it. I usually fill up about once a month now, it was once a fortnight before. I like the smoothness of driving in ev mode and the power is there immediately. I do mostly commuter driving but do long distance, so for me a hybrid is the best of both worlds and excellent on petrol.
This weekend I drove to Nottingham and back from Pembroke. £110 in charging costs. I rarely use public charging I'm lucky, I have solar etc. EV is not a viable option if using public charging and this needs to change!
Charge to 100%? That's a poor charging strategy for any EV, because charging generally slows considerably over 80%. Better to fill to 80% and do more stops.
In my Niro EV I do a 17 mile commute each way every day. It’s a mixture of dual carriageway, city driving, and hilly A and B roads in the countryside. I’ve never had a journey as low as 3.1mi/kWh - my average in the car per recharge is normally 4.1 to 4.3. On top of that he’s charging at normal household rates, not an EV tariff, and he’s also charging at a public charger via contactless, at its highest rate. That EV has an authentication card (that you have to make an account for and activate) that gets public charging at heavy discounts on certain networks. Also… he actually says in the video that he drove much further on the way back!!! The whole video felt like they were going out of their way to make the EV more expensive.
In reality an electric car is far more expensive. It costs more to buy, and the life expectancy is half of a petrol or hybrid. Batteries for a full electric car last on average ten years, at which point in reality makes an older electric car worthless. Hydrogen was always the way forward, especially as a full electric car leaves an enormous carbon footprint and helps hand over even more control to the country that produces nearly all the batteries, CHINA.
Thank you for doing real life test driving and cost break down. I wish someone would do something like this for the US. Our electricity and gas prices vary quite a bit from state to state though so it may be harder to do.
Interestingly, I just did a similar journey in my 530d. 51.8 mpg, so just under £40. But I still had over 300 miles in the tank. And the ability to get to 60 in less than six seconds if I choose. And it'll return the same economy in the winter. Oh, and I live in a flat, so EVs are about as much use to me as a chocolate teapot.
I think the main takeaway from the video should be that in most normal use cases an EV is cheaper to run. If you're charging at home and commuting to work the chances are your EV will get you there and back without any need for public charging which is stupidly expensive. The PHEV being the worst is no surprise, I had work colleagues that only got 2 miles per kWh in their PHEVs, so they had very poor efficiency in electric mode and of course with the battery weight also had worse MPG while running the engine, pretty pointless unless you have solar or very cheap electricity rates to offset the inefficiencies.
Only the EV is spared oil changes, transmission fluid changes, coolant changes, etc... It would be interesting to see how the higher cost of purchase for a EV is offset by the additional cost of maintenance on a PHEV or hybrid over 5 years or more.
An average service is say 3-400 pounds per year ? so over 5 years would be 1,500-2,000 ? (some manufacturers do 399 for your first 3 years servicing which I didn't include) a bit cheaper than the extra 9K the car cost even if you assume that your very effecient, do minimal long journeys, get best price for your on the move electric costs. The other question is what will an EV depreciation look like over the same period compared to a "standard" car? @@viffer5. I would also ask if the "average" person could even afford the 9K upfront cost
@@viffer5 And loses capacity each year until you're up for a battery replacement in ~8 years. Priced one of those, lately? Insurance is high and set to go higher with the number of fires and the number of write-offs for relatively minor shunts. So, you don't pay to change fluids (which I do at home) but you pay a technician to 'tune' your unit each year. Tyre use is higher - my car weighs 850kg, most EVs are double that. Brake use is less, as they use regenerative braking. Winter use depletes your capacity even more and do you want to spend half an hour at a services in the depth of winter waiting to top it up? Don't get me wrong - I'm an EV fan, but just like my motorcycles - they don't make the most economic sense.
@@stuarthall2523as the technology progresses there will be more and more battery recycling companies like Redwood Materials in the US. They are already at 97% recyclability rate of EV batteries, that number and scale will only improve.
I can’t charge at home and I knew that, when I put my name down for a first gen Niro EV 64kWh. Which after personal testing, would have given 2.8-3.1mi avg. per kWh, (summer) in hilly Wales. However, circumstance change and the Kia dealership gouging the market by upping the price by over £8,000 forced cancellation and I carried on with the Mondeo 2L, which easily did 38-42mpg avg. in hilly Wales; and had a £295 VED. I now drive a Polo 1.2L, which does 51mpg avg. year round; and has a £20 VED. I really looked forward to owning an EV. But with the quadrupling of public charging rates and the charging networks being no more reliable than four years ago, plus the planned near £190 VED for EVs. I’m now so glad I’m not an EV owner.
AT LAST. ! I thought this was the most useful video or research even, on EV vs Hybrid vs PHEV I’ve seen, well done, good work. A lot of great work, and the results raise some important aspects, and what you did NOT mention, also warrants being stated - insurance. EV insurance seems to be about 3x any other insurance. It could simply be they are more expensive, or they are costlier to repair, or both and something else. But, green, no longer seems to equal economical. Another issue raised is taxation. And those questionable congestion-type charges. I’ll start with taxation. I think that being charged more than 50% tax on car fuel is undemocratic. None of us voted for this. I am trying hard to think of something comparable, and I think it’s alcohol. Or cigarettes. High tax on cigarettes has made people buy foreign cigarettes with even worse filters. Is that a win? high tax on alcohol, is less clearly a problem. But you will tend to buy cheaper, lousier alcoholic beverages, and it’s more likely to be a mix of chemicals than to be fermented, brewed, or any other long, slow method of making drinks. But as I neither smoke nor drink, it doesn’t matter to me. The point is, there’s neither a mandate outright for high taxes on fuel, nor for heavy-handed congestion charges that have little bearing on environmental factors though they purport to do so. I pushed the limit of affordability, and bought a hybrid. Over ten years old. That’s it. I stretched out and put my stake in the green ground, as far as I humanly could. I’m in Yorkshire - so as we now know, we were never going to get any improvement in rail or other transport anytime soon, so cars etc it is. Given this massive stretch by me, a huge attempt to help out, why am I slammed with petrol that costs nearly £7 a gallon? I’ve done what I could, and all I have managed is to put petrol prices back to about £1.25 a litre. That’s it. I am pro-green electricity, wind power, some solar I guess even in the UK, and even a little nuclear - but not much thanks. But I object to being taxed to death on the 7,000 miles a year I do, which basically makes up for the failure of public transport and infrastructure in the UK by successive governments, but particularly in the last 13 years. And HS2 having died, is no surprise. It looked like it might go past Brum for a brief second, then we fell back to the norms. Just draw a line from Bristol up to The Wash/Peterborough, and there’s your north/south divide. It’s not complex. I’m not even saying who’s better off, you will note! Electric charging at 75p per kWh? Who’s going to do that, that doesn’t have enough clout on the Board of Directors, to push aside the Accountant’s protests at the extra cost compared to a regular ICE vehicle! So, for company cars doing any distance, that’s that. That they can get away with it, is criminal. That our government BENEFITS from a war going in in Ukraine, and Russia’s invasion, by pushing pump prices through the roof, and therefor the tax-take, is also criminal. Lastly, purchase prices. even doing astronomical miles, in town, the EV is damned by the terrible purchase price. How long to make up for seven extra grand spent? I think the Break-Even-Point is somewhere out in the 2040’s? EV prices, are becoming very suspect. People spoke of prices equalising - but they didn’t say this would be done by RAISING ICE car prices. Cars that were £14k 7 years ago, are now almost £20k. And EVs have continued to be high twenties and mid-thirties for a decent one. Renault were even trying to charge over £30k for a new Zoe last year, the BASE MODEL ffs. Then, somehow, dealers mysteriously began selling some for £20k or so, a more useful number, probably not far off a realistic price for a new one. I am going to sum up by concluding simply this: EVs are NOT AN ANSWER it seems. They’ve been kept pricey, and the energy to ‘fuel’ them has followed suit. Legacy motor manufacturers have jumped on the bandwagon of EVs as profiteering it seems. And a lot of these EVs are a bit average, truly. I mean, for about £23k say, these EV Niros are not bad, but for almost £40k? Then you can only drive them near your home or negotiate informally with people at your destination, or get ripped for re-charging? Phfft. EVs, I hugely looked forward to - for about ten years. Then, I gave up. They SHOULD have been an answer. But given they are NOT an answer, why are hybrids punished in this country for taxation? It’s a f@cking mess, mate. Combined with the lack of a spine of this government to build wind turbines anywhere remotely scenic, because of spoiling people’s view (don’t they know there is a war on - no seriously, there really is), it’s pathetic. You shouldn’t have to get a SEVEN year old hybrid, to pay the same low road tax as a one-litre petrol turbo car. I quote from my own family. Wife has a Clio mk4 0.9Tce, pays £20 road tax a year. I have a Prius from the gen 3 era (pre-2017 crucially) and so the Road Tax is zero. Now, it’d be £170. Why on Earth does a hybrid car, giving 50mpg, have to pay EIGHT TIMES the road tax of a conventional ICE one? To give context, the Clio mk4, has never exceeded 44mpg. Not once, not under any conditions. Nobody in government, has a grip. It’s bl@@dy sad. Our whole country is swimming in ‘what do we do now, guys?’ mode. I stopped listening to this govt almost entirely, last week at its conference. It thinks it’s alright, to fill in time, for the next 52 weeks of our lives. I don’t think that is alright, do you? Tread water and come up with hare-brained made-up causes to fight, for the next 12 months until they deign to call an election? It’s far from alright. Take care all.
Great review! Worth mentioning that the London Congestion charge exemption does currently cost an EV owner £10 per year however, within the next 2 years that benefit will end.
I thought I would weigh in here with some figures. 2 Years ago I switched from the 2.2l Diesel Kia Sorento to the new Kia Sorento PHEV (13.5kWh battery with 1.6l Petrol) In the Diesel car, we were doing an average of 60.8 miles a day with an average running cost of 18.8p/mile. It is also important to note that the average price of diesel when I had the car was £1.21/L compared to around £1.40 today. In comparison, with the PHEV we are doing an average of 72.6 miles a day with an average running cost of Petrol 8p/mile and Electric 3.7p/mile for a combined 11.7p/mile. Straight away you can see the saving in the Diesel for 1851miles/month it was costing us £354.94. In the PHEV for a greater 2209miles/month it is only costing us about £250/month. Not to mention that after nearly 50,000 miles in the PHEV we have only gone through one set of tires and are still to need to have the Break pads replacing. In the diesel we must have gone through 3 or 4 sets of Pads and the same tires. Of course there are a lot of Caveats in this, for starters we are on a variable tariff so we only pay around 6.5p/kWh between 12:00 and 05:00. Due to the low EV range, we still charge outside of this, however our average cost/kW is still 15p/kWh. (This tariff ends this month at which point we will switch to Octopus Intelligent where I estimate our bill will increase by around 15% overall) The majority of EV owners who can charge at home will get a variable tariff as it will drastically reduce costs. As we anything each use car as a best case scenario and each will be best depending on how you use it. For us, the PHEV has been great, we would have gone EV but at the time there wasn't a reasonable full BEV 7 seat car that suited our needs. We have since just ordered the Kia EV9 which should arrive in January fingers crossed. Based on my calculations, I should be able to reduce the charging costs to around £50 in this car. Instavolt is among the most expensive charging network and I would only use this in an emergency. My local Tesla Supercharge is open to other EV's and is only 51p/kWh (58p peak) so far more reasonable. The difference between EV and Petrol is the range of prices, you can shop around different chargers to get a better deal, with Petrol, the difference is only a few pence/l so it's barely worth it. Yes the car's are more expensive but with other savings such as tax and running cost's, this makes up a lot of the difference. But not all, I just like my gadgets lol
wow u gone through 3 to 4 sets of pads and tires. Did u go drag racing with that thing? It takes a couple of years to replace a set of tires and brake pads. Lol
There is no reason why electricity should be so expensive. Nuclear reactors provide unlimited energy, are not dependent on crude oil or natural gas, and best of all, the UK can reuse spent nuclear fuel rods, so there are no storage worries. Bureaucracy seems to be the problem.
You're right. At a guess, i'd imagine the spending power of oil and gas lobbyists, combined with the anti-nuclear agenda of climate activists, puts the push for safe and affordable nuclear power low on societies agenda. I also suspect that a lot of very rich people are rubbing their hands together at the thought of creating that 'green' infrastructure. Trillions to be made from the taxpayer to build it, and then charge us to use it.
You will never get people who do not have the luxury, (It will be called that) of home charging to buy electric cars. Simply because they will (unless there is regulations) be paying more at public chargers. Now what do you think will happen. Private charging increases to public costs? or, public charging cost reduce to private charging.
Im really glad I saw this video, im sticking to my diesel. 80mpg on motorway and 55mpg in town. I don't visit cities so no charges for me. My car is cheaper to run than all three cars in this video. All I have to do is clean out the dpf every once in a while.
Very interesting video, it shows that you need to think carefully about how you intend to use your car before buying it. I am considering buying a Plug In Hybrid, as most of my journeys are short 10-15 miles or so, using a home charger I think this makes sense, however you have to take into account the cost of purchasing the car as well.
Yeah definitely go plug in. We did 4 years ago as most of our journeys are managed on just the electric & don't have to stop at the public network on our longer travels. Best thing is for work I get paid the full petrol mileage allowance for driving electric. If I buy a full EV this drops to a pittance, for once I'm winning 👍
I'd personally avoid getting a PHEV, all my work colleagues who had one got awful electric efficiency at around 2MPkWh's, most good EV's will get closer to 4MPkWh's. So you're better off either biting the bullet and going full EV or just getting a mild hybrid tbh
I switched from a Toyota Yaris 2018 to a Toyota Prius Phev 2020, two years ago. I do not regret my decision. my daily journey is about 42 - 50 miles on mixed roads, with varied speed limits of 30 - 60mph. The Phev has a better mpg even when the traction battery is dead. Phev, for me, is the best of both worlds.
To put this in perspective. I bought my petrol Kia Ceed GTLine from Motorpoint for £16k, 81 months warranty with 1.4k on the clock. Would have done the Brum trip for about £38 and the City one for about £3,80. You do the math(s). This going new green is VERY expensive regardless.
I was shocked (no pun intended) to see that your charging cost at home was so high. The general public here in Australia is complaining about our high energy costs but the home charging cost you quoted in the story is over twice the price per KWh we are paying in Australia! 😮
Our energy costs are almost uniquely high in this country, although since the video was made they have started to fall. However, it looks like he was charging on his normal home energy tariff, whereas most energy companies offer an EV tariff that will charge the car far cheaper, with the best being a firm called Octopus that does it at literally a quarter of the price he quoted.
Same as New Zealand. The charging cost used here is twice my day rate and almost four times my night rate. In addition, my account with Genesis Energy means I get the same rate at any Chargenet station in the country.
4:05 Why not charging both plugin cars during the "quick coffee" at Birmingham ? Even if it is just for 15 minutes. For the EV, it could have been enough not to stop on the way back. Regarding the stop on the way back, wasn't the car able to heat the battery to charge at a higher power ? Most recent EVs do, but I do not know for this model.
Interesting numbers...how about resale values for the 3 cars? Second hand for 2 year old EV's. Prices seem to have crashed, 50% depreciation for electric?
This is an excellent experiment, thank you. What was wrong with the Niro EV getting such low efficiency figures I wonder? I've just completed a 600+mile (mostly motorway) journey in mine, and never once got below 3.7m/kWh.
This may look like an excellent experiment to those who don't know anything about electric cars, but as someone who's had an electric car for a few years, I can tell you that this is somewhat misleading. They failed to mention so much....
@@ricco123tubeCan you please share the things that you feel were missed out? I’m looking to buy a car next year and genuinely don’t know which version to go for. Based on this test only I would for the regular hybrid. Many thanks
If you can charge at home, you would get a smart tariff and pay as low as 7.5p per kw not the 30p they are quoting. Secondly you need to work out how much 3rd party rapid charging you are likely to do and factor that cost in. Tesla superchargers are half the rate of the rest at the moment. Plus what car are you buying. New or used etc etc. If I was buying on a budget I'd be getting a 2nd hand model 3 (based on driving one for 80K)
@@deanwhiteley3065 Off-Peak charging makes EV a whole lot cheaper than they suggest. Tesla's supercharger network is by far the best- works every time and uber reliable.
Given the beanies on display looks like this was recorded much earlier in 2023 so temperature probably played a factor. My Ioniq 5 is getting 3.9-4.0 on the motorway and > 5 around town at the moment. Living in London and rarely doing long trips makes having an ev work for me at the moment. Most weeks I can get by with just the free charging whilst shopping at Sainsbury’s 😂
That's a really interesting test, and I was quite shocked by the overall result - especially the ridiculously high price per KwHr at the Instavolt charger. Would be really good to see the figures extended to take account of real world servicing and maintenance costs, tyres, insurance and maybe add in depreciation. I've wanted an EV for the longest time, but this is making me think twice about it, that 280 mile motorway journey would cost me £30-£40 in my diesel Skoda Superb - a used car that cost me half of the purchase price of the cheapest vehicle on test here.
This test is worst case scenario. The price for kWh at home is way over what most people will be paying (over double) and by looking at the data and knowing roughly what the e-Niro can do, it seems like he charged the battery too much at the rapid charger, wich you learn not to do when you get an electric car and start living with it. Also, if you were doing mostly motorway on an EV, the Tesla Model 3 is going to be noticeably more efficient than the e-NIRO and similiarly priced.
Servicing and maintenance will be more expensive for petrol, but tyres, insurance and depreciation will be worse for electric cars. Electric cars are heavier, they will wear out tyres more quickly, might even require more expensive tyres. They also damage the public infrastructure more due to this factor. Insurance will be higher because they are more expensive to replace and repair when damaged. Depreciation will be higher for two reasons. One they are more expensive so even if they depreciate at the same rate, it's a bigger number. And then as they age they will depreciate at a higher rate, no rational person would buy a 5 year old BEV without a significant margin to a brand new one, as the remaining life of the very expensive battery is dubious.
The only thing that shocked me was the way the piece was contrived and biased against the actual EV experience in these circumstances. It's almost deliberately geared to make the EV look bad, by using incorrect home charging rates, double-costing the city driving element, and ignoring the fact that normally, a driver would wish to stop halfway for a short break, regardless of their vehicle type.
Very well done. Covered a lot of variables. I have a phev and solar panels. I make decisions based on what may be the best for the environment rather than what works out best economically. I will never get back in energy saving costs what i spent. However, it is my responsibility to minimize the damage I do to the environment that I live in. If we could get most people to do at least something to help, the kids of the future will be better off.
with the oil price thats going unstable, this calculations can change signicantly to the HEV & PHEV. there are also some routine maintenance to the engines of PHEV & HEV that can spike up the costs
Given the situation with the rise in price of electricity, the costs are very different now from a couple of years ago. I'm still running an ICE, and weirdly, it seems cheap compared to the TCOA of an EV at the moment. Interesting test - I thought the PHEV would have been more efficient.
There are still cheap night time tariffs for electric , I've got solar panels so 3/4 of the year I actually get paid to fill my car up ( fit scheme) and if you have a car over three years you have to take maintenance into account, there is virtually none on a EV . Having said that with the price of electric at rapid chargers if you do allot of motorway miles or can't charge at home even I would have Ice car currently . If energy prices return to pre Ukraine war then it's far cheaper in electric.
Petrol and Diesel prices have risen more than Electricity prices. The savings for fuelling your EV compared to an ICE vehicle are even greater than they were before. This video is very misleading. I can say that as someone who has owned an EV for seven years and I have also driven a Kia e-Niro from London to Nottingham and back. The most expensive filling my battery ever gets is only at the most expensive chargers and even then it only equates to petrol/diesel prices, it doesn't exceed them. Jonathan Porterfield of Eco Cars often remarks that he doesn't mind paying high prices for charging his EV on long journeys because it's more than compensated for by the extremely low cost of charging it at home. The very occasional need for very long journeys doesn't notably inflate the cost of running and owning his car.
@@davefitzpatrick4841 Yep, if you've got access at home, that's great. I live in a flat with no charge points, so EV probably not for me - at least at present.
Another highly suspicious article from a publication that gets the majority of its revenue from companies related to the ICE industry. As other people have said the majority of people with BEVs charge at home overnight at much less than 30p and as to economy for the Niro EV that does not sound like my experience. If they want a real comparison ask people who have driven all three types over a number of years, as I have. I can tell you which is the clear winner….Just to add. I looked at my stats for the last month. Travelled 839 miles average consumption 5.53 mile per Kwh in my e-Niro . Just calculated that with my current overnight rate that cost me £11.58 my quick comparison against a 60mpg car was I saved £78 ! Still what does that matters Iam not working for a motoring magazine that will have the story then published in the wider media as gospel.
An interesting test, but i would have been useful to see other metrics and scenarios compared auch as low price charging overnight and C02 emissions comparison.
Surely it was obvious to 3 of you & the editor that the Niro EV did not do the first 200 miles on 34.5 kWh @ 30 pence. The car had a charge when you got it, so it was 64 kWh of a charge to do your man maths with. 64 x 30 pence a kWh £19.20. Then the PHEV & Hybrid have 6 speed dual clutch gearboxes not 8 speed.
Did anyone consider that most people living in London can’t charge at home, especially if they live in the congestion zone and they are less like to be able to afford an EV in the first place? Rent to salary ratio is outrageous in London too and landlords are not putting EV charging into their properties and good luck if you live on a council estate! You can’t force people to not have a car and use public transport and you can’t blame them for living where they do either. A solutions this has to work for all. Petrol (diesel) are the only options right now
Instavolt are one of the most expensive. He said he didn't need to add as much as he did and did more miles so it wasn't a comparable journey. If most of your mileage is from home I e. round trips up to 270 or so then electric works out cheaper. I have done 265 miles on one charge in my eNiro and over 2 years have averaged 4 5 miles per kWh.
Agreed that Instavolt is way more expensive. Tesla is only 44p or 40p per kw depending on time, so would of been almost half the cost to charge at a supercharger than instavolt.
Would be interesting to see real cost difference including price of ownership built in for each: - Monthly PCP - Monthly Insurance - Monthly Road Tax As I'm sure that would make the electric option look even less appealing. Electricity prices are nothing like they were when electric cars appeared to be the solution for cheaper motoring! Would also be good to see how the above figures compared to a similar sized petrol and diesel car. Interesting video though! 👍
This was altered because they used the top back up to full price to calculate the EV journey. If you leave home with a full battery charged on cheaper home rates, the top back up figure should be this price. They used the most expensive way to recharge the EV. He didn't mention what he was at when he got to the instavolt and then added 150 miles. If the whole journey was 280miles and he was half way back when he charged, he only had 70miles left to go. So he overcharged at the expensive rate when he could have done the minimum charge there and the majority at home. Rookie mistake there.
Agree. Think you would also need to include the depreciation of the car too. I've seen other comparisons where an EV lost 50% value compared to a petrol losing 20% value in a similar period, as the market for secondhand EVs is bad. And as for recycling....
@@jimwhook Banbury isn't halfway back - its closer to Birmingham and there was probably more like 80-90 miles to go. Considering it dropped its "285mile" range to needing a top up by then - somewhere around 200 miles, even adding "150miles" would be nowhere near that in reality so it might have had ~20 miles left when they got back. Would you run it much closer than that to save a quid?
@@siraff4461 well, I don't know the UK and I was going by the rough map. They never stated what the EV was at when they stopped to charge but they did say themselves that they overcharged. This was also to simulate leaving from home and returning to home. So yes, I would do this. I also would drop back to 65 on the motorway. It doesn't add much to the time on the journey but it extends the range. There are also cheaper public chargers. With an EV with a max of 80kw, using a 150kw was just pointless. I would have gone for a cheaper 50kw. I would have spent the same time as this guy but would have just put in enough. The petrol refill should have been on premium to match. Not a far comparison when they are putting a foot on the scales... 🤷🏻♂️
Seems like the ev costing included what was left in the 'tank' after getting home, which was probably a lot if he charged to 100% and no mention of cheap off peak rates. Also electricity prices are expected to drop quite soon.
Agreed, fully charging the cars and refilling with petrol at the end of the test would have been a more representative comparison. An experienced EV driver would only have charged enough to complete the journey, not to 100%. Making it clear that EV tariffs of 7.5 to 10 p/kwhr are the norm for EV drivers who charge from home. The nearest public chargers to us are free, but that is the exception and not the norm.
Being an owner of 2 electric cars and doing regular long trips, I feel like they have just decided to use the absolute worst case scenario and then some for the EV. Who pays 30p/kWh to charge at home (7.5p myself or free at work) and how did he put more kWs in at the instavolt than at home when most of the journey was done on the original charge. I shan't be trusting any more data or videos form them.
Cost is not the big differentiator here, it’s clean air. In Los Angeles there’s now a strong correlation between number of EVs and a reduction in the number of hospital admissions for lung problems. Whilst petrol is not as bad as diesel there is still significantly more pollution than EVs
Octopus energy currently gives you six hours through the night at 7.5p per kWh. A quarter of the 30p used in the test. Myself and everyone I know with an electric car will charge through the night, off peak. When filling up my petrol car with fuel, I wouldn't fill it at a petrol station that was 4 times more expensive! But charging your car at independent charging stations is ridiculously expensive and makes no sense.
Not everyone can charge at home
But the EV had insufficient range to use home charging exclusively on the Birmingham trip
No but there isn’t any mention of the cheaper charging costs that are available to those who can do it’s a bit of a skewed review and assessment of cost. What about mentioning for those that can and mentioning that there are cheaper public charging points. They’ve filled up at cheapest petrol prices, no mention of how much fuel is on motorways etc.
@@ianroe6678 but petrol and hybrid cars have decent range so it's easy to avoid motorway fill-ups. Not so with BEV
But you can't take your home everywhere
I want to say a big thank you for doing this video & others like it regarding the costs of running Ev's in 2023.
As an Ev owner for a few years now ive seen a big change in the running costs of Ev's sky rocket. But there seems to be a sort of cult around a lot of Ev owners that always shout people like me down who are just trying to be honest around the true costs of Ev's in the UK.
If a lot more people / dealers / manufactures dont start being more honest around Ev's I can see the Ev market totally collapse. People who are new to Ev ownership have a massive shock to the system in the first few months. Some of the major issues they encounter
1.THE QUOTED RANGE they are shocked in most cases that the car they have bought only does 200 miles instead of the 300 miles listed.
2. THE QUOTED CHARGING SPEED they are shocked again when there car takes double or triple the time to charge.
No one tells them that the quoted range is rarely assessable & in some case a 300 mile car , can only really do 200 miles in the real world.
No one also tells them driving at motorway speeds will lose them more miles of range or when the winter come they could lose 30% of there range.
I bumped into a guy at Tesco who was struggling to charge his Mercedes EQC , After helping him download the App for the charger because the card reader wasn't working & showing him what to do. I found out he works in Dubai & the rental company at Heathrow had given him this Ev & said it was cheap to run. But after driving from Heathrow airport to here a total of 128 miles , He was shocked & in a bit of a panic as he got to the charger on 0% & couldn't get it to charge. He had rang the rental company to tell them there was a problem with the car , because when he had collected it , the range said 238 miles. They then told him Ev's aren't to good on motorways.
I told him if you drive at real motorway speeds & have the climate on & generally treat it like a normal car you will lose range & 128 miles is most likely right , As those Mercedes only really do between 180 & 200 miles driving them efficiently. He was not a happy bunny also when the car was saying it would take 2 hours 28 mins to fully recharge on the 50kwh rapid charger & when I also informed him it would cost around £50.00 he said wow that's more than this journey would cost me in a petrol car , I thought Ev's were cheap to run. I said not any more. He said if this is the way it is , he will never buy an Ev. And you can't blame him as I worked out how much petrol he would get for £50.00 at Tesco where we were & it would be 8.3 gallons so that journey cost him the same as a petrol car that only did 15.4 mpg.
People need the whole truth around Ev's
They need to know the real world range of the cars summer , winter , motorways speeds plus the real world charging times & the difference between AC & DC charging plus speeds. And the true cost of using public chargers. Plus the real costs of charging at home. People talk a lot about cheap night rates & one of the most popular ones gives you 4 hours of charging at only £0.10p per kwh , But what they dont tell people is that 99% of home chargers can only supply 28 kwh in that 4 hour window , So if your driving say a i pace & only averaging 2.3 miles per kwh you will only top up your battery by around 64 miles max during that cheap rate. plus no one also mentions you can lose up to 15% of the electric your charge for by the transfer & conversion from AC to DC that your cars does. And that for the other 20 hours of that day which includes all peak times you are paying an extra £0.08p to £0.10p per kwh. So even when not charging your Ev its costing you money.
Then there the purchase prices because Ev's version of a petrol car costs in most cases at least £9,000 to £25,000 more normal people who finance there cars are paying thousands more in interest charges which even if you can save a bit on your day to day running costs far out ways any savings by a few thousand.
Like one of my friends who sticks to the cheap night rate charging & drives according & his Ev is very efficient , he averages 3.8 miles per kwh & he saves around £900 a year based on him doing 10,000 miles. But because his Ev cost £16,000 more than the petrol version he pays a lot more in interest charges & its roughly £1200 a year in extra interest charges. So he isn't really saving a penny.
O and a few myths to ignore Ev dont need servicing or are cheaper to service , Technically they dont need servicing but 99% of dealers require it every 12 months & at least for the first 5 years you might only save pennies as most dealers charge roughly the same to service an Ev compared to a petrol car. Plus Ev are more to insure over there petrol models. Road tax any Ev newer than 2017 April will pay road tax at the starting rate of £180 I think. O and dont forget the cost of a home charger min around £1200
Its a Crazy world in 2023
Thank you, a EV owner that tells the truth so refreshing.
have to say it's still a crazy world in 2024. After being continuously attacked by two EV (Tesla) zealots on FB yesterday for discussing similar things it is indeed freshing to read an EV owner how it happy to discuss the good and bad and bigger picture of EV ownership
I am an EV owner who only drives locally 90% of the time I charge at off peak rates and using solar when nice and sunny .Its the cheapest car to run that I have ever owned .If I go on holiday I suck up the cost as its probably Once or twice a year .The car has lost £10000 in the year I have owned it admittedly, but I plan to keep it for a long time so I am not to worried.
Well written mate
@@katwat8682 same as a hybrid owner for many . these new tesla owner are so proud of their choice . my concern is the rising electric price and the rising maintenance when the BEV aged
My neighbour a former BMW petrol head , changed from his M3 to a tesla 3 , his weekly fuel cost went from £100 to £20.
Can you also take into account purchase price, maintainance costs and depreciation?
Hybrid will still be on top bc EVs depreciate a lot faster than ICE and Hybrids for example I searched the Kia Niro and all the listings for the electric version from 2023 are below the starting price for the TX model while all the listings for the hybrid are at or slightly lower to the starting price
The PHEV should be ran in HEV mode if the distance exceeds the range available rather than just EV mode, because you are lugging around the battery and charging it with the petrol engine if drained completely, this way you should have costs around the same, if not cheaper than the hybrid.
I think the big issue with EV running costs are the difference between home and rapid charging. I have one on order and I probably do South Coast to Birmingham once a month. I will be able to charge at home for 7.5p per kWhr and at work for 11p, which makes the journey cost £8.33 for 280 miles
Don't forget that the cost of using public rapid chargers can be reduced by subscribing to the network you might use the most. The Ionity Passport for example, gets you around 30p per kwh off the cost of using their rapid and ultra rapid chargers. Other networks have their own subscription schemes too.....
Is Shell big oil, Ionity owned by big oil trying to make EVs uncompetitive only in the UK
Yes, this is horseshit. Why would you charge 100% when you could just charge enough for the trip home and then use your cheap home rate?
Also how often would you need to make a 280 mile journey?
I could do that trip for £20 in my much cheaper small petrol BHEV. Would never be cost effective to go all electric at that and all the hassle that comes with it. 2 mins max and I'm refilled for another circa 600 miles.
That’s works out perfect for you. Sadly, many ev owners are paying a lot more. It would seem electricity prices have tripled, but fuel has actually come down narrowing the gap.
I have a company car so I log all my miles. I have just changed from an ICE to an EV.
My EV costs £160 a month less than the ICE for the same mileage and that’s using a standard electricity tariff. It would be cheaper if I used an EV tariff @ 7.5p per KW.
As it’s a company car I save about £170 a month in tax vs the last ICE car too.
It is a more expensive car to buy though.
Also i get 340miles real world range from my car, so it could have done that journey in one charge.
Switch to Octopus Intelligent. It costs 7.5p per kwh now, and the daytime rate has been reduced to 30p per kwh.....
depends on your usage pattern but I WFH and agile is far much better, currently only 16p/kwh @@Brian-om2hh
I’m the owner of a full ev in Ireland. Regularly have to drive from Dublin to Galway. Before i used a Diesel and at €1.60ltr it would equate to around €35 for a return trip, not including tolls. I charge over night to full capacity for these trips it costs €9:38 on the nighttime saver charger plan. Tolls are reduced for EVs 50% less at peak times 75% less off peak. The long range vehicles are expensive but savings can be made.
Do you have to then charge in Galway to get back to Dublin? Or can do return trip on one full charge?
@@snoopycharlie8718 That was also my question when I read this too. It is a 250mile round trip. There still aren't that many affordable EV's with that range and lets be honest it doesn't just stop with the round trip does it... there's always some deviating from the route and some running around when you get there... Even if the car can actually deliver 280-300 mile range, thats going to be an anxious last part of the journey, with the heater or AC turned off LOL
@@TheComputec Exactly 😅
@@TheComputec when I drive to Leeds, I plug the car overnight and it is fully charged to go back home. Sometimes , I stop for 10 min comfort break on the way adding 70-150 miles in that time in my 'tank' especially when with kids.
@@yuriy81uk average out the additional cost of buying an EV over an equivalent ICE car over the typical three year ownership cycle and then work out how much money it has saved you
2 notes I'd add as an EV owner myself:
1 that electricity was expensive. Many others are cheaper, esp with subscriptions which you quickly save money on (Fastned Ionity Tesla, etc)
2
When you took the break at the turnaround, THAT is when he should've charged. May very well have saved him the need to stop to charge. It's not uncommon to need to pee, get a drink and or eat at one of these breaks. That time adds up and you might as well charge the car.
And when you think about the other two who had nothing else to plan or to think about. Most people are nowhere near ready to shift to living with EVs.
@@aacmove True, but ideally your car does that for you like in AAOS (Volvo/Polestar and Renault atm) or Teslas
@kimjaeger4399 none of those brands mentioned are affordable to most people. I personally would not pay north of €32k for a car, new or otherwise. And that's with equity in my current car. A mini for €40K with hardly any buttons and what looks like a second-hand panty pad for a dashboard. F that.
@@aacmove sorry if I wasn't clear, those are only the brands I know of that do it now. But more are getting better with route planning. German and Korean brands in particular from what I've seen. In time Ford and Stellantis will join and the tech will trickle down to cheaper cars.
@@aacmove Route planning is a solved issue. This is just a software issue and lots of manufacturers improve their software over time, even for used EVs. Soon every EV will have decent route planning. And even for the remainder: There are apps for that, where you just plug in some details and your destination and the only thing you have to worry about is what kind of fast food you get at that charging spot.
I’d love to know if there is a difference in the monthly insurance cost for the three cars - that might tilt the balance away from the electric vehicles.
Im in the US so it may not compare to UK and the cars arent similar, but I have a 2011 Silverado which I pay $390 for annually for 3000 miles coverage and a 2023 Bolt EUV which I pay $530 annually for 9,500 miles coverage.
Wow! Charging prices are extortionate in the UK.
I’m living in continental Europe and really expensive fast chargers are less than 65c here. My local 50KW charger is about 17c.
Until the UK gets electricity prices cheaper, electric cars aren’t going to make much sense without a home charger.
Yes big oil is pricing EVs out of existence
Agree! There in the UK electricity prices are quite an abuse!!!
My electric at home is 29p per kW expensive, I stick with petrol car for now
Everything in UK is expensive. When you have a corrupt government, a prick of a London Mayor, and taxes that make sure you'll never get ahead of the game, we have no chance. The rich get richer and the rest of us suffer.
@@Mike_OckinerYou're not wrong mate!
Point 1.
Why charge it back to 100% on the way back. Only needs a 10min charge at those highway expensive chargers... (this is what they said at the beginning, then he ended up only charging for 30mins roughly apparently). Instavolt being one of the most expensive chargers to add. Would have made more sense charging in Birmingham when they all had a stop for a bite to eat and all would have got back at the same time, plus the cost of charging probably significantly less.
And why not charge it when they stopped in Birmingham? It was set up to fail the EV.
Sponsored by the oil industry.
He was at the charge point for 34 minutes...... He didn't charge to 100%
@@reddeviluk the Niro is economical, he probably didn't even need to charge. A 34 min charge at a high speed charger is a lot of Kw.
@@Mexi257 It wasn't that high speed though as he was, I think, on a 150kW which shares its delivery. Having made that point, he said the eNiro only went up to 75+kW anyway. I'd have charged at this price, just enough to get home with a few % to spare, part of the fun and it hasn't failed me... yet 🙂
Why fret over a charging strategy when you could've just charged when you stopped in Birmingham?
Exactly. They’re stoopid.
That's a good point, but it depends whether the destination is somewhere you're able to charge
Probably wanted to try and make the whole journey without having to charge, but had the contingency in place in case
If you'd charged up the phev and left it on hybrid/auto mode, instead of seeing how far it would go on battery alone, the fuel cost result would have been very different. There was no need either to fully charged the EV on the return journey.
Did you decide the outcome you wanted to present before you actually did the test?
Electric cars pollute more than petrol cars & are less recyclable, try in the cold or hot weather , the figures will be far worse, electric vehicles are a con !
A lot of comments are saying that the comparison is invalid because they aren't taking into account special ev charging tariffs for home charging. These comments make a valid point, but the review is still relevant for a couple of reasons:
A *lot* of people cannot charge at home because they don't have a driveway or allocated parking space with a charging point.
The price per kWh you pay at service stations is ridiculous. This needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.
This also applies to Germany. You need to check the efficiency of your EV and need to have a contract with a charge point provider. My Model3 costs me about 0.13 € per mile on the highway. The average petrol car costs 0.2 € per mile. Without contract and in a less efficient car one can easily spent 0.3 € per mile on electricity.
I am an owner of an EV. From my experience, if you can't charge at home off peak hours then you shouldn't consider an EV. EV is only suitable for people whose daily journeys only uses 10-20% of the EV's charge capacity with only occasional long trips or best if you have a 2nd ICE car for long trips. I do only 20 miles round trip daily from work and charge with overnight fares. An EV is saving me a lot of money compared to my previous 30 mpg ICE car. For my ICE car, I had to top up 30-40 quid of fuel every week. My EV for daily work trips cost me less than 5 quid each week for overnight charging.
Is your 10-20% based on the 2 hour overnight cheap rate your electricity company gave you? 🤔 I'm currently on a day night rate 33c day, 10.5c night. But it's night rate from midnight to 9am. So I don't have to worry about trying to fit the charge into a 2 hour night rate window. 🤷🏻♂️
My daily EV commute is a 135 miles round trip, so about 55% of the battery. I don't have night rate so pay about 30p/kWh. It costs about 10-12 pounds a day, which i think diesel drivers will think isn't worth it. But the performance and comfort is likely not comparable. The fuel cost of a similarly speced petrol car (diesels don't exist in this segment) would be eyewatering. Anyways, just wanted to point out that long daily commutes are completely doable in a decent EV.
I would urge people to consider likely future costs as well. If EV vehicles ever reach 50% of all vehicles on the road I don't think an off peak cheap electricity rate will exist.
Also as petrol and diesel vehicles reduce the government lose lots of tax (the cost of a litre of petrol or diesel is mostly tax). That lost tax will switch to EV which will make them even less affordable.
Many people don't buy new cars. A used economical petrol makes more sense for many. Who would buy a 10 year old used EV?
For EV to make sense I feel the price of the vehicles needs to reduce dramatically. Many can't fit solar panels on their roof and in winter they might not generate enough electricity for some people (those who do 70 miles a day or more).
I get the sense that the politicians are beginning to realise their aims for phasing out ICE aren't feasible. Not enough public chargers and a public who simply don't want to buy EV. Some German and Japanese car makers are openly looking at alternatives like lab fuels and hydrogen.
@@EwanM11 ahhh I did the 24hour rate myself for the first year and have noticed the savings on the night rate. I agree the comfort and performance is great in an EV 👍
@@GaryBox i expect prices to come down as the supply chains for batteries ramp up to meet demand. China is a much bigger market than the UK and they are further along in their adoption of EVs so we'll benefit from global economies of scale. The battery supply chain was sized for the laptop market, so it needs to grow by a factor of about a thousand. Battery costs have come down a lot in the past 10 years and will continue to decline.
2030 may seem ambitious but a lot can be done in 7 years. The Tesla model 3 didn't even exist 7 years ago and they're everywhere now.
I think the real takeaway here is that you should only charge at home wherever possible. If you are lucky enough to have a solar roof then this could be an even bigger delta
This. Most people don't do long distances that often either, so even if you had to pay the ridiculous 75p per kilowatt because you couldn't plan to use a cheaper service nearby it wouldn't be often enough to really make a difference. Most EV owners charge exclusively at home, and they wouldn't likely be paying 30p as they'd change tariff - and that's before even looking at things like solar (perhaps with home battery) to further reduce the electricity costs. Such a setup would become more economically sound if you had an EV, so you'd save on your home energy costs too.
@@JonathanMorris777 Sounds great. What about people who don't have a drive?
In London thats a majority too so they are stuck with public charging at all times.
Its also ignoring what the extra cost of the car means in real terms because an extra ~£8k is going to attract interest or if you pay it outright you are missing money you would otherwise be investing. Either way its another cost.
Then there is the inconvenience factor. These guys got lucky in that they pulled up, straight on a charger and it was all working. I've owned ev's since 2010 and from experience I know thats certainly not always the case but even presuming things go well its still another half hour standing about for nothing.
Would you go to work for half an hour for free? How about once per week? How about once per day if you have a decent commute or can't afford a car with a large enough battery to cover your trip?
Oh and solar - again sounds great if you have a roof of your own, don't mind forking out a good few grand and if your insurance company doesn't then hit you with a much higher premium.
Or you could just save around £15k between the car and solar and all the rest and drive the hybrid - regardless of where you live.
@@JonathanMorris777 Then you have to factor in the cost of a home battery wall plus solar...and of course charging overnight at home without a battery means it wont be even approaching free.
Fine if you never travel far. They need to be cheaper to run( which they are not) as they cost thousnds more and depriate like stone.
My son drives a 110 miles a day, his BM cost him £500 a month in petrol. His new BM EV is less than £200. 😊
Why would you not charge to 80% in Birmingham whilst having a coffee!
I think because they are trying to stack the test against the EV.
Because you need "drama" for viewership...or that's what most content creators seem to believe.
Because that would mean you're stuck in Brumgum for a non-zero amount of time.
Exactly what you would do if you didn't have an anti EV agenda.
Not really realistic on the long run to add the whole charge of the Instavolt KWH if they weren't used on that journey.. that's like adding the cost of a full tank of petrol even if the fuel was unused - not really comparing apples with apples..
Anything to try to get the EV to get near top parity with a IC... keep trying.
For both trips any idea what the CO2 level were for each vehicle?
to get that answer you would have to start by the beginning by knowing how much CO2 you get for the petrol extraction, transformation and transport then burning that petrol in your combustion car. On the other side you have to know how much CO2 you get in the atmosphere from the mineral extraction required to build the batteries plus transport at each steps of fabrication and most important how much CO2 generated to get the production of the electricity required to charge that car and this last detail depend a lot of where you live. I am sure I am not mentioning a lot of potential CO2 issues in both cases.
The electric had the most.... it starts with aronud 90 000 mile sbefore it starts up the first time plus depending on the electricity sourc etimes 2 at the charging stations on the same route than a conventional car.
Who cares?
I live in SW France in the French countryside, lots of hills and very winding lanes. I use my electric car a new version Dacia Spring Expression for shopping, taking the dog out, visiting friends etc. It costs me €6 for a complete fill at home (box charger on house). But normally I follow the 80% rule. It is capable of doing just under 300 km in the summer on one charge, and far less in our winters which are mild until Jan/Feb. It suits my needs perfectly, the nearest petrol station is about 17 km away, so saves me that. Plus Macron extended the scrapage scheme to the end of this year, so I got €5000 plus €2500 for my very old Toyota Yaris Verso diesel. Job done. Very happy with it. Does 99% of what I want, and for the other %1 I would hire.
Hello, may I ask do you have a special EDF contract for electric car ? or just a normal contract
@@MoNsTeRhOaNg Why would the Op need a special contract? France didn't privatise its electric grid, and has capped electric prices at, I believe 2cents per kWh.
In Spain, where I live, we had a cap for a while, but we're back to "Normal" pricing. It's only the UK and Germany that have ridiculous electricity prices, both self inflicted.
@@davidcolin6519 Lol, no. A simple search reveals that the cost of a KwH in France is 25.16 Euro cents. Cheaper than the UK, but still over two times the price you claimed.
We run a fully electric car and a petrol car. We find for day to day running, work, and back etc, the electric car is much cheaper, but we have given up on using the electric for long journeys. The cost and inconvenience of public charging and finding chargers that are faulty has put us off.
We drove our Tesla from South Florida to Atlanta. What should have be. 10 hour trip. Turned into 16 hours. Filled with anxiety
Why did the BEV have to charge up so much to just get back to the start point? The other cars didn't top up their tanks when they got back. So confused how this was comparable.
its not, they have an agenda
Because the EV's range was less than the overall journey, but, the EV driver could have done it better, and he admits this himself - when they went for lunch in Birmingham, both the PHEV and EV driver should have found somewhere to plug in while they ate, and if the EV driver still needed some juice on the way back, he should have only put in just enough to get back, he put in at least twice what he needed to, costing him lots of time and money.
16:50 please amend the statement that states that ‘the uk government is going to ban EV’s)
I have had an EV for 3 years now both the first the ENiro now The Niro EV both great cars. I manly charge at home at 7.5p per KW I would say 95% of my miles are done from home charging. The rest being done on longer trips and only using public charging to top up enough to get me home.
Depending on your annual mileage you can save several hundred pounds a year on fuel costs also the costs of services.
which one you have?
@@xeniosaias Nero EV 4
Strangely since 2023 I can do my first 250+ miles in my EV for £6. I pay 7.5p per kW when charging (in the day as well thanks to octopus intelligent).
I wonder if this video is designed to make us argue about reality when they're skewing results?
It'll be more accurate driving from the UK to Greece and back, but most of us don't do that trip? Consider if I only charge at home & drive 200 miles per day (£5), that's 73k miles PA. £1825 PA. Compare against a petrol Kona 2L TGDi.
Mileage: 73,000 mile(s)
Fuel type: Unleaded
Fuel price used for this calculation: 143.54 pence per litre
Mpg used for this calculation: 32.80 MPG
Total fuel cost: £14435.10
I think people need to consider their actual driving, not fictitious driving.
Toatally agree
You do need to offset the cheap rate with the increased rate for non-off peak electricity that you use. You'll find that the saving is not what you think. I've done my maths, and concluded not to go for Octopus, but use slow charging combined with solar panels and off peak charging with another supplier. Octopus is not so silly as to give you something for nothing.
Mate, you don't have to justify why you bought your EV. It's totally your choice and if it works for you then fair play. But for me the extra cost of a new EV compared to the miles I travel it would end up costing me. Plus the depreciation of the EV is so high that you have to factor that in. As well as the devastating effect the mining and production of the EV has on the environment I just can't buy into this "green energy" mullarkey. Many traders won't buy EV's due to them not making enough money on the secondhand market. And while many people are saying "no, my EV is worth £XX when selling" that's a trade in price against a new EV. The actual value of just selling them is much lower because people aren't buying them. Your servicing costs should be much cheaper but for some reason they're not. My friend's Renault Zoe first service was nearly £500. Why???? I have two cars, one classic and a 3.0 TDi Audi. Both of those combined are still cheaper for me to run than one EV. (And the classic is appreciating not depreciating.) But that's just my personal situation. Petrol here is currently 137.9 and diesel 139.9.
@@Mike_Ockiner As I said, I bought a cheap second hand EV for £11,000 because we need two cars for the family. I chose an EV simply because it is very cheap to run with my solar panels and off-peak charging only. As for servicing, it cost me £100 to £150! Your friend had been fleeced by Renault!
I'm so glad to see other ACTUAL EV DRIVERS also telling the truth behind this grossly misleading video.
Using the price cap is basically like only using motorway services for petrol
You have a choice with a 650 mile diesel of where you buy your fuel ( cheap supermarkets ) With a short range EV you generally can't on a long run and are caught by the motorway vultures.
The use of 30p per kWh for home charging is not sensible. Anyone who owns a PHEV or EV and can charge at home should have a EV electricity rate. I have had my Tesla Model Y for a year, done about 12000 miles around 10500 on home charging (7.5p), about 500 on the public network (~75p) and about 1000 miles on Tesla's Supercharger network (~40p). My energy usage has cost me less than £700 for a year's driving, it about £2k less that my previous petrol ICE car. My previous ICE car was a lot cheaper than my Tesla, so I'm still out of pocket, but very happy nonetheless.
Is motorway service petrol 4 times more expensive than elsewhere?
Night rate electricity is less than half the price.
@@davidm7237 7.5p compared to 30p is actually a quarter of the price. Imagine paying 100p per litre of petrol at a motorway services compared to 25p elsewhere, that's the difference and that's the margin that this video gets it wrong. It's either woefully uniformed or it's designed to maliciously manipulate their viewers.
This uses the price cap for charging whereas most people who invest in an electric car will be paying 10p per kWh on an off peak charge rate. This alters the numbers significantly for the around town driving/short commute, which if is a majority of your use changes the value proposition significantly for the phev and the ev. You should also factor in the savings on servicing or lack of.
Dont forget to factor in the extra cost of electricity during the day if your getting cheap night rate
@@Markcain268 to make the numbers easier I used 10p as the OVO anytime tariff which doesn't increase your day rate. As opposed to 7.5 with octopus which does.
Don't forget to also factor in the cost increase of purchasing an electric car over the equivalent ICE version....
@@lenzilf1 yep, £500 for cheap ice, £5k for the cheapest ev
@@Markcain26830 p in the day too plus you can use appliances over night on the cheap rate so other savings there!
You should also include the difference in insurance groups. The hybrid is 20-21*, the PHEV is 23 and the EV is 28-29*. Depending on your age that could make quite a difference per year. (* Dependent on trim level)
I was about to make this point! I know someone with a Tesla model Y who's in his forties and pays £1400 a year to insure whereas I pay less than half of that for a CLS63 at 30. I don't know whether it would be as extreme on a Kia niro but definitely worth considering! The other item is tyres which are generally much more expensive for EV tyres. On the flip side maintenance and servicing is cheaper for the EV!
As mentioned above the charge at home rate is 7.5p per kh, the Nero would only have only needed a small top up at a rapid charger, therefore the EV cost would be a quarter of the cost quoted. My EV would have done the Mway journey on less than a full home charge and cost less than £6.00. While not everyone can charge at home, most EV drivers do and use an EV tarrif. In 18 months with my current EV I have only used public chargers about a dozen times for my mostly Mway driving. As a result I find the reporting less than honest.
Wait til it needs a new battery. Hope you are saving up cause it will be around£8000.
@@Anonymous-ib8sono he will not need a new battery,he will sell the car a lot sooner negating all the green thing by having a new car
Their reporting was quite transparent. Very useful even if you don’t like the results!
@@Anonymous-ib8sothe average lifetime of the battery will be around 180k miles, by which point most cars are dust.
If you believe that then you can plait fog. Utter nonsense@@raffiefoxmew3691
The maths on the EV makes no sense. 75% of the motorway journey was done on the home electric before charging yet the calculation showed only about 34kwh vs 50+ for the public charger to do the last 25% of the journey.
This makes absolutely no sense.
Also comments about time of day tariffs are relevant and would make it much cheaper too.
This is very poor journalism. Are they just Ill informed or sponsored by BP?
The elephant in the room is always the purchase price and how long it will take to get that payment back....
I'd never buy an elephant.
To be fair a 13 year old Toyota Prius would return over 60 mpg on that run and would only set you back £4k for a good one 👍
The point of this test was a direct EV / PHEV / petrol-only comparison - hence they picked three otherwise identical cars. It wasn’t a model-vs-model comparison. Enjoy your 13 year old Prius! ❤
To be fair, the whole f*cking POINT is to stop burning f*cking FOSSIL FUELS.
The world is literally starting to roast itself in its own fossil fuels and you guys are worried about the cost of running electric cars because your own government, ably supported by "Journalists" like this WANT you to keep burning those fossil fuels.
There is one BIG difference between a stramlined Prius and a metal box like a KIA. The amount of air you have to move over. And that you pay.
Let's enjoy our Prii.
Sadly new Prius not being sold in the UK, but my 18 year old one took me to Leeds and back last weekend, still got 58.6mpg on the journey. I’ll be sorry when it finally bites the dust.
@@alexwhite2791 I really don't see that as being particularly spectacular. My Clio diesel from 2007 gets 58,9 mpg all the time, and that would be better on a long run.
I'm a petrol and diesel car owner (at the moment) and while the test is useful and has it's merits its also fairly inaccurate to the majority of EV drivers. Home charging can be had for as little as 7.5p per KWH which is 4x cheaper than the figures used in the test and would have made the city drive cost just 79p. The EV driver also put more electricity than he needed to on the public charger so again, there could have been less at £0.75p per KWH and more at 7.5p per KWH.
Spot on. He only needed 25kWh at the rapid to complete the trip.
That of course also would have made his stop a lot quicker , (which was a complaint in the clip) .. basically by the time he had gone in for a wee stop and grabbed a drink it would have been ready to go again.
I assume you did not calculate the cost of installing a home charger. Which the HEV would not have.
@@batira You can often get a free home charger when switching to a EV friendly provider
@@mattstambach5401 In which country? :)
I drive a 2022 Toyota RAV4 HEV and on the motorway it will return an easy 56mpg, driving in slow city traffic it returns at least 66mpg (a journey lasting just over an hour for a distance of 26 miles) - I have seen 108mpg for shorter distances in stop start traffic.
I disagree with the home change at 30p. I can do full charge at 9.5p per kWh giving me well over 200 miles and it cost about £7. Public charging is expensive but like said it was not necessary to put a full or almost full charge for a remaining 80 miles. There is a learning curve with EV driving which one still try figure out, but if your smart you will reap the benefits
9.5p per kwh? Oooh, that's pricey. Octopus Intelligent recently reduced it's price to 7.5p per kwh.....
@@Brian-om2hh many EV drivers cannot get IO, tell Octopus to hurry up and add support for the Zappi
@@Brian-om2hh octopus go my pod point home charger doesn’t support intelligent
@@rickmoznor my pod-point.
It does support lots of EVs though
Take depreciation into account and with an EV, you are burning money faster than throwing your wallet on the fire. That is if you can find a buyer to take your battery degraded EV off you at all. They are standing on dealer forecourts for weeks at a time, some dealers will not even stock them now after being burnt so badly.
It would be good to see someone do an article on how to get the best from your EV. There are lots of people now who are experienced EV owners and their learnings can really help new EV owners. Often, Dealers aren't actually helping new EV owners. This affects their enjoyment of their new car.
EVs charged at home are very cheap to run. At charging stations you pay much more. Plus you save time as charge is always full in the morning.
Having an EV affects their enjoyment of their new car.
One could have went at 55 mph along the A roads and coast n regen into roundabout. That’s 6 kms rolling or regen, distance
Get a home charger and use one pedal driving.
He best way to use your EV is take it to a dealer and swap it for a diesel. Life is to short to waste it waiting for you milk float to charge
Ive owned a KIa EV for 9 months now and have used a public charger half a dozen times during my 8000 miles of use, the cost to charge at home is 7.5p which means i can do a 100 miles journey for about £2.00
Yh enjoy these good times, until more people join EVs and the government start putting tax etc on the electricity and when the grid gets crowded. Its cheap now bc not many got evs but when more and more moves to evs, the government loses tax money on fuel which they would need to get from electricity.
@@mr.darknight416I think a road tax (based on vehicle weight) would work better than just relying on petrol tax.
Not 100% guarantee it will actually do those 100 miles
@@alexpro60798 You'd struggle to get less than 100 miles out of a ~280 mile range EV, even if the weather conditions are terrible.
Here in the Netherlands you pay road tax based on the weight of the vehicle and the type of fuel and extra tax on petrol.
plus additional purchase tax when purchasing a new car.😳@@paulgoudfrooij6561
The biggest take-away for me is how much gasoline one can buy if you are not paying the many thousand dollars extra for the EV or the PHEV. I pay 3.75 per gallon here. My current vehicle is 15 years old in perfect mechanical shape and has 160,000miles on the odometer. I won't be switching soon. But I consider the RAV 4 because of the extra room I don't have in my small car. I get 32 mpg in the city.
My apologies if this has been mentioned before. To realistically make a financial comparison among the three types, the maintenance costs and insurance costs should also be included. I believe that over time and mileage, the EV will prove to be the least expensive to run. I have a 2014 Chevy Volt that currently has 176 + thousand miles on the odometer. It still has the original brake linings and rotors (regeneration is cost effective, too). My total cost per mile to run this car has been $0.083US. That includes gasoline costs, electricity costs, maintenance costs (two additional sets of tires, 8 oil and filter changes, coolant changes, air filters, windshield wipers) and insurance costs. My lifetime miles per kWh is 4.3 and my lifetime mpg is 40.3. The Volt is a plug-in hybrid.
In the UK (wetter climate) brake rotors often have to be replaced before they’re worn, due to pitting (caused by corrosion) to the braking surface.
Also if you want to compare that way. How come you don't include life cycle cost. The cost to extract rare earth materials from the ground and cost of disposing harmful chemical materials? Purchase price is one thing, but u don't realise new EVs are heavily subsidised by government in all countries especially in China.
Consumer Reports released their annual car reliability survey on EV's from the past 3 model years. EV's had 79 percent more problems than conventional cars based on owner responses from more than 330,000 vehicles. Some of the most common problems EV owners reported are issues with electric drive motors, charging system, and EV batteries. Those are all big cost items. I've run across a few videos on UA-cam recently of EVs that had batteries fail to the point the entire battery needed replacing according to the dealership. Worst example was in Canada where a Hyundai dealership wanted just over $50'000 CAD to replace the battery in a 2017 Ioniq. That one made it to mainstream news. If there are parts that cost 3/4 of the entire cost of the vehicle that is a major issue for me moving to an EV.
The article is called "Electric Vehicles Are Less Reliable Than Conventional Cars" if anyone want to look it up.
@@GazzaDazzle Yeah that's true. To get the complete cost everything needs to be taken into account not only just expected operating maintenance. The issue is EV laws and regulations are still being figured out. The latest is Government procedures in some areas now state a damaged EV should be quarantined 15 meters from anything else due to the battery fire risk even if it was a minor accident. Storage at a repair centers/parking costs will be a lot given the space that would take. Its possible insurance wont cover some of this extra cost. I've heard that some people dont want EV's in parking garages mainly due to the fire risk when charging unattended and being in a confined space with fire hot enough to melt concrete and create structural damage. I was surprised to hear EV fires are around 1500C/2732F temperature. Electricity costs are also going up everywhere. EVs may cost a lot more in some areas to charge even from home in future. I think it will be some years before we see the true cost of owning an EV. I'm staying away from owning one for now.
Iv just got the new Vw Touareg R hybrid and I am getting 68mpg on hybrid mode on mixed trips
I came from a tesla and won’t be going back. Good video 👍
I am shocked by the results. I am shocked how you managed to get such terrible efficiency from the BEV and why you didn't talk about:
Cheap off peak electricity prices
Zero road tax
Reduced cost of serving
Cheap EVs like the MG4
Manipulated figures is the answer
Talk about all of these things then you also need to discuss the elephant in the room when it comes to EVs - depreciation.
Depreciation for EVs is quite shocking at the moment and will add significantly to the overall cost of running such a car.
Not everyone has access to cheap off-peak electricity prices in the UK, the servicing isn't reduced to a significant amount. MG4 is a cracking car though. My aunt has this Niro PHEV and hasn't visited a petrol station since she got it - she does really short journeys but likes the thought of being able to do a longer journey every now and then if she needs it.
Doesn't the zero road tax for evs end next year?
@@spectralcav there’s a clue there ‘at the moment’. I bought new 6 months ago and dealers were selling nearly new ones for not much off list price due to the shortages. We also sold my wife’s petrol mini back to mini for a ridiculous price. There has been a correction but I’d be fairly confident it will level off over time.
So why did you not charge while you were in Birmingham getting your coffee probably would have got the change required for the return journey in that 15 to 20mins?
Now I own a kuga 2.5L 230bhp PHEV and I do just over 40miles round trip to work and back and my average mpg is 117mpg so why is the Kia only getting high 50s? Using the kugas 2.5L engine alone gets 50 mpg I don’t get these numbers, is the kuga PHEV THAT much better? A single tank of fuel costs me £55 and I’m getting 1200miles from it before filling up again.
Very good video, just could be possibly to know comparing all three a cars,how much produce CO to make this car's.
On the long run more power than required was put into the ev … so there should be a reduction in the cost of that trip … it doesn’t make sense / surely this is misrepresentative ? & no, I don’t have an ev
13:41 I dont understand why Neil used more energy from Instavolt vs his home. He charged on the return journey at Instavolt so surely he had covered more miles with his home charged energy. Why didnt you just simplify the comparison by using miles per kwh vs miles per gallon?
It would have been great if you had compared it to the cheapest overnight EV tariffs available, some are 7.5p/kWh overnight! Also if you can have solar panels on your house you can really bring the costs down long term!
That doesn't solve the points being made about those who cannot charge at home. Are you suggesting that only those with a driveway will be able to afford an electric vehicle. I live in a Town (Goole) with one of the highest council taxes in the whole of the UK far more than many London Boroughs where billions of UK tax payers money is being spent on transport infrastructure and according to my local MP or should I say local dimwit we pay more because there is a far bigger precentage of low cost housing i.e. many terraced streets that are usually filled with cars all day and night so where would they charge their cars?
Also when does it become cheaper to drive an EV after the huge cost of buying an EV compared to ICE cars and also facturing the cost of having solar panels fitted?
@@macroman54 the government needs to do more to make elective cars a better solution for everyone. The point I make is that the numbers used in the video are flawed because anyone who can charge at home would charge at far cheaper rates than they quoted. Cheap overnight electricity tarrifs weren't even mentioned by them
Then also include extra cost of normal household electricity at higher rate. £600 per year for us.
Except you would have run out of charge!! DOH you EVers are dumb
but you have to pay the solar panels too
Interesting to see some EV evangelists talking about cheap night rate electricity as if that makes everything OK. The higher purchase price and higher depreciation are a significant factor in cost. Plus the range anxiety and time wasted at public charging stations means EVs have a long way to go before becoming the first choice for many people. No wonder they are having to force them on us.
How would you come to the assumption that electrcars have higher depreciation that ice cars? Theres plenty of examples where those opposite is the case. I bet a high milage niro ev is a lot more expensive that the phev/hev variants…
Range anxiety is only an issue for those who don’t own an EV. For short trips it’s a non issue and for long trips you need a break every 2-3 hours anyway. It’s easy to do that at a charging station, just like you would do with your petrol car.
And EV owners generally don’t waste time charging,, since they do it at night at home or close to home.
Personally, I swapped both my cars for EVs. Much more comfortable, and cost effective.
@giovannialtamore seriously? EV owners don't have range anxiety but ICE owners do? Behave.
@@benzo5799one example of a Taycan owner who has had his £120k car for 2 years has been quoted £51k to sell it. I would say that's serious depreciation. I have a Civic ehev, best of both worlds.
@@artovnoyes8479 ICE owners *think* that range is an issue. Once you have an EV you will understand that it is mostly a non issue.
This video seems to have missed out the additional costs for EV's. Initially they are far more expensive than an ICE or Hybrid (which you did highlight) then there is the additonal cost of the wall charger plus installation. Also if you change your electricity supply to have the cheaper night rate then you also get additional charges for power used during the day. Also insurance costs are generally quite a bit higher for an EV. Then there is the rapid depreciation of EV's compared to ICE/Hybrids. When you take everything into account EV's are not as cheap to run as being touted by many.
And what is completely, completely constantly ignored, is all those living in flats, apartments, townhouses, etc., etc., with no ability to charge at home, and thus no other option but use the outrageously expensive public charging points. So again, if you are fortunate enough to own a nice house with off-street parking - well done, life has rewarded you again. But if you are young and/or financially less well off that you live in a property with no off street parking, YOU once again, are screwed with a higher expense to the benefit of those more well off. An absolute disgrace - utterly shameful.
Of course this does not apply to every flat or apartment building but, most apartment buildings provide you to a personal parking spot where you could put a charging dock. And most flats also have some charging stations for the whole building, which is of course worse than an own charging dock but better than having none at all.
@j800q I think you'll find most flats don't have charging facilities, there is no incentive for land Lords to install them, my own land lord refused when I had my EV and had no plans to. Also only one apartment block out of the 3 I have lived in had specific parking for my flat... EV for regular folk is unsustainable hence I am going back to PHEV, would go fully petrol/diesel but company car tax is a joke.
@@j800q lol. Most "expensive" apartments might provide you a personal parking spot. And "most flats" in the real world absolutely do not provide charging stations for the residents. I don't know what utopian complex you live in, but you sound really removed from the real world. Remember as well, a ton of flats, and tower blocks etc are council or housing association. The lift not stinking of pi*s is a blessing. Communal charging stations and personal parking spaces are science fiction in those blocks.
Ps. I forgot to mention the £8000 costt difference between the hev and EV. Equivelent of £51 per week over three years. Surely isn't that a free tank of petrol every week for the hev.
Those annual service soon build up over time. Change the fan belt fill up the oil etc etc. Live in the real world.
@@tagware And increased tire and wear shouldn't be forgotten from fat lardy EV's.
@@tagware £499 for five years servicing.
I love my daily 50 el. Km in my PHEV
I too use Octopus Intelligent so only pay 7.5p / kW, but I have to agree, away from home charging costs are ridiculous making it less desirable to own an EV.
Should of bought a Tesla. 😂
@@tagwarebut you might have to sell your house to be able to afford it....
An interesting comparison for sure, although I wouldn't have thought many people buying an EV would just charge on a standard home rate. The vast majority will surely charge on a cheap overnight tariff, which swings the running cost easily back in the EVs favor.
Completely agree. These guys completely missed the point. They made all the rookie mistakes instead of telling people how you drive and charge an EV to get the savings.
@@tomm5936I think your taking your knowledge about driving an EV and saving on cost for granted. Most ppl are not gonna know all the details about maximizing cost per watt. If they have to go far and are unable to reach home on a single charge. they will be happy to use a public fast charger and will wait for a bit of extra charge to avoid having more range anxiety so they can reach home safely. Your knowledge puts you in a much small pool of EV drivers that can drive far distances without putting you at such a high expense.
@@LimitGTX it is true I look at it with the knowledge I have. I just feel these guys seem to on purpose do this the wrong way. I admit I am an EV fan and I wish they would at least try to do this the way an EV driver would. I know some people buy an EV without having a clue about how to optimize it and would do stupid things like this. I just wish the media would try to educate people instead of making themselves look stupid.
The previous comments are spot on about charging at home on a cheap rate and I think this was a point that should have been given more prominence in the video. Several suppliers offer EV tariffs. We bought a three year old i3s recently and so far it has had one third of the running costs for “fuel” than our previous similarly sized car. Also there are lots of memberships that give discounts on charging that are worth looking at.
Never go anywhere then?
@@Anonymous-ib8so Be quiet
Cheap overnight tariffs are non standard, so not at capped rates. During the day their rates are typically double the normal tariff, making your heating, cooking, and everything else twice the normal cost. So good luck with that.
I'm very fortunate. I have solar energy at home and that would change the figures on EV and PHEV quite a bit. After doing some sums of my own the PHEV works out better for me personally, Over 80% of our driving is very local , (20miles round trip) and I now have a new charge unit that can draw from the solar if charging in daytime instead of grid. So some of my electricity is free. And petrol engine gets used on the rare trips of 40 miles+. It's clear each person needs to crunch their own numbers based on individual use.
I wonder if you crunch TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) including servicing whether the numbers on a pure EV might work out better for you over, say 5 years, of motoring. If it's rare you do over 40+ miles then you are lugging a heavy petrol motor around a lot of the time. Love to have solar myself BTW ;-)
Solar is the go if you plan to own an EV. After 55000kms, I have spent less than 400AUD on ‘fuel’ and maintenance on my EV since buying in Jan 2020. And that included a 4000km road trip from east coast to West Coast Australis where I now live. Sunlight is free and abundant in WA. (I used to drive Mercedes., AMG and BMW in the past, but would never buy anything other than electric now).The driving experience on a trip is so much more relaxing, safer too as passing a 53mtr long road train is quicker than the AMG!
Interested to know how an eHEV would fare. From what I can tell eHEVs, like the new Civic (which use a petrol motor as a generator and electric motors at low speeds, and direct power from the engine via a single speed transmission at higher speeds) are more efficient since they leverage the two motor types at the peaks of their respective efficiencies; electric around town and ICE on motorway.
Se my report on eHEV Jazz Crosstar - 74mpg.
My E-HEV Honda HRV has averaged 64.6 mpg over 8000 miles since the beginning of February this year. 80% motorway 20% local trips. My friends Jazz e-hev has averaged 69.4 mpg over 11000 in 18 months 50% motorway 50% local.
We are both very impressed with the running costs.
Makes me quite happy with my 2014 Tesla Model S with free supercharging. The old lady just did a trip from Denmark to Poland and back (around 2,200 km). Added more than 400 kWh of free electricity on that trip alone.
Out of warrnaty? Its a housebrick waiting to happen.
What this shows is that the public charging infrastructure is up to 10 times more expensive than charging at home and so electric cars make sense if you can charge at home…
What I’m most shocked by is congestion charges that effectively create a rich people’s reserve. If you want to drive your enormous SUV into London you can if the charge doesn’t matter to you.
It seems obvious that if congestion was really the reason for such a zone the results could be far better if vehicles over a certain size or energy consumption level were excluded from the area and if there were useful subsidies, tax breaks and other reductions in costs in order to get ordinary people into the most efficient ULEVs, as in Norway.
As are petrol & diesel prices at Motorway services. Not a fair comparison test IMO.
I've got a plug-in hybrid: a little Jeep Renegade. I was on a tariff which cost me 5p/kWh to charge up between midnight and 5 am. The range on battery is about 25 miles in Winter, 30 miles in the Summer. Work is 7 miles from home, so my daily commute cost me peanuts *and* I could travel for long distances if I had to, with all the benefits of regenerative braking (about 50 mpg running on petrol).
BUT... my 5p per kWh tariff just ran out and my supplier wanted to charge me 20p/kWh for the night-rate. I'm in the process of switching to a cheaper company, but it's like swimming through treacle. The switch has been "pending" for a month. All the electricity suppliers can tell me is that there has been "an error". When I ask what the nature of the error might be, and how could it be rectified? I'm simply told that it's an "error in the system". If the switch goes through then I'll be paying about 11p / kWh to charge my car.
I drive about 6,000 miles a year, or less. The plug-in hybrid was over £10,000 more expensive than the equivalent petrol model with the same specifications.
I love my little Jeep. I'm really happy that I don't have to visit a petrol station more than once every two months. Nonetheless, it would, overall, have been cheaper to keep putting diesel in the old Land Rover. Less comfortable, perhaps, but just as much fun to drive. Arguably more fun.
If the Government wants us all to drive EVs then it's going to have to (1) make it feasible by beefing up the electricty infrastructure and encouraging the installation of charging points - right now there isn't enough juice in the grid for us all to drive EVs and charging points are hard to find - and (2) make it cheaper to run on electricity than fossil fuel.
Most people are not going to spend more money on buying cars that are more expensive to run. The environment argument is important.. but what is the enviromental impact of building, maintaining, and eventually recycling EVs compared to the enviromental impact of (say) keeping a 30 year-old Land Rover on the road?
3 mins into the video and already I have a gripe. Why stop at Banbury and charge to 100%??
If you plugged in for 15 minutes while you stopped in Birmingham for a coffee, there would have been no need to stop at Banbury.
This is such a rookie mistake, thankfully you didn't go to 100%.
You could have all arrived back at the same time.
If you charged at home, not all can, a full charge would cost £5. A quick charge in Birmingham would be at most £10 which means a total of £15.
Add another £5 at the very most for the next day and you have a total of £25 at most.
Why use the max UK electric home price??? Absolutely no one I know with an electric car pays 30p per kilowatt to top up their car at home. This is nonsense.
I got this impression. I’m just starting to research an efficient switch to electric (and keep a tasty little classic on the side) and even I know that these rates are a joke. These are motoring journalists with experience running electric long-termers, they know this. Maybe it’s a test designed to appreciable to a particular, ie lazy, audience.
@@Whatshisname346unfortunately this really is extremely lazy journalism. The moment the young guy sighed when he realised he had the EV, I knew this was going to be a load of bollox.
This is unfortunately misinformation.
This only applies to about 10% of all journeys 90% of normal use is covered by home charging for an average person
You know this how? Remember in winter or bad weather the range plunges 20-30% for EVs. Lots of people in city apartments can't access home charging.
Only for those who have the ability to charge at home, which many people don't.
Most people will charge at home or at work. Fast charging is only used for long trips. I’ve rode almost 80.000 km with EV so I can speak from experience.
@@SkaffenUKyes I think this will be a deciding factor. If you generally do small journeys and are based out of a semi detached/detached house, EVs will be no brainer currently. Beyond that, it starts to get difficult - or at very least to involve some serious forward planning.
@@FirstLast-rh9jwpetrol MPG drops by similar on cold engine starts
My 11 year old petrol Golf does 42MPG on motorway, or about 50MPG at motorway at 60MPH. I do 10k miles per year. How many years would it take for an electric car to pay for itself? in fuel savings at current rates ? Since I don't have a crystal ball to know what electric or petrol will cost 5 years in the future or know what new technology is coming that might reduce the cost of electric cars I think the logical thing to do is drive my car till it's not economically repairable.
I have an EV that I use primarily for driving to work and running errands in town so I rarely charge it a a public DC fast charger. Since most of my mileage is from home charging, my running costs are very low.
I have a Clio hybrid and love driving it. I usually fill up about once a month now, it was once a fortnight before. I like the smoothness of driving in ev mode and the power is there immediately. I do mostly commuter driving but do long distance, so for me a hybrid is the best of both worlds and excellent on petrol.
This weekend I drove to Nottingham and back from Pembroke. £110 in charging costs. I rarely use public charging I'm lucky, I have solar etc. EV is not a viable option if using public charging and this needs to change!
Charge to 100%? That's a poor charging strategy for any EV, because charging generally slows considerably over 80%. Better to fill to 80% and do more stops.
That's insane how you managed to make the EV cost so much to do a 278 mile trip!
True. I drive a Zoe at half the cost of a petrol Clio/Polo/... And 10% city miles and 90% motorway miles in this test are not very realistic either.
In my Niro EV I do a 17 mile commute each way every day. It’s a mixture of dual carriageway, city driving, and hilly A and B roads in the countryside. I’ve never had a journey as low as 3.1mi/kWh - my average in the car per recharge is normally 4.1 to 4.3. On top of that he’s charging at normal household rates, not an EV tariff, and he’s also charging at a public charger via contactless, at its highest rate. That EV has an authentication card (that you have to make an account for and activate) that gets public charging at heavy discounts on certain networks. Also… he actually says in the video that he drove much further on the way back!!! The whole video felt like they were going out of their way to make the EV more expensive.
Why charge only what you need to at 75p/kWh when you can charge to full just for the hell of it!
The editor is Steve Huntingford. Anti-ev brigade appears on GB News looking for old fogies to support his agenda. :/
In reality an electric car is far more expensive. It costs more to buy, and the life expectancy is half of a petrol or hybrid. Batteries for a full electric car last on average ten years, at which point in reality makes an older electric car worthless. Hydrogen was always the way forward, especially as a full electric car leaves an enormous carbon footprint and helps hand over even more control to the country that produces nearly all the batteries, CHINA.
Thank you for doing real life test driving and cost break down. I wish someone would do something like this for the US. Our electricity and gas prices vary quite a bit from state to state though so it may be harder to do.
A basic rule of thumb to compare them, take your kWh price and multiply by 9.5 to compare to US Gallon prices, or 2.5 to compare to per litre prices.
@@brushlessmotoring
Well 1kwh is about 0.11-0.14usd. One gallon is around. $3.15 at the moment.
Interestingly, I just did a similar journey in my 530d. 51.8 mpg, so just under £40. But I still had over 300 miles in the tank. And the ability to get to 60 in less than six seconds if I choose. And it'll return the same economy in the winter. Oh, and I live in a flat, so EVs are about as much use to me as a chocolate teapot.
lol me too i have a 3.0l d 330bhp jag xfs and a 500+ mile tank and its more fun than a ev and i can fill up anywhere in 5 min
Not a BMW 530d I hope, once you factor in maintaining it, a private jet would be cheaper.
I think the main takeaway from the video should be that in most normal use cases an EV is cheaper to run. If you're charging at home and commuting to work the chances are your EV will get you there and back without any need for public charging which is stupidly expensive. The PHEV being the worst is no surprise, I had work colleagues that only got 2 miles per kWh in their PHEVs, so they had very poor efficiency in electric mode and of course with the battery weight also had worse MPG while running the engine, pretty pointless unless you have solar or very cheap electricity rates to offset the inefficiencies.
It would be interesting to see the total cost of ownership over a range of years, as well as different makes of cars.
Only the EV is spared oil changes, transmission fluid changes, coolant changes, etc... It would be interesting to see how the higher cost of purchase for a EV is offset by the additional cost of maintenance on a PHEV or hybrid over 5 years or more.
An average service is say 3-400 pounds per year ? so over 5 years would be 1,500-2,000 ? (some manufacturers do 399 for your first 3 years servicing which I didn't include) a bit cheaper than the extra 9K the car cost even if you assume that your very effecient, do minimal long journeys, get best price for your on the move electric costs. The other question is what will an EV depreciation look like over the same period compared to a "standard" car? @@viffer5. I would also ask if the "average" person could even afford the 9K upfront cost
@@viffer5 And loses capacity each year until you're up for a battery replacement in ~8 years.
Priced one of those, lately?
Insurance is high and set to go higher with the number of fires and the number of write-offs for relatively minor shunts.
So, you don't pay to change fluids (which I do at home) but you pay a technician to 'tune' your unit each year.
Tyre use is higher - my car weighs 850kg, most EVs are double that. Brake use is less, as they use regenerative braking.
Winter use depletes your capacity even more and do you want to spend half an hour at a services in the depth of winter waiting to top it up?
Don't get me wrong - I'm an EV fan, but just like my motorcycles - they don't make the most economic sense.
Depreciation is huge on EVs too. Cost of disposal of batteries too. Some insurance companies won’t touch them now.
@@stuarthall2523as the technology progresses there will be more and more battery recycling companies like Redwood Materials in the US. They are already at 97% recyclability rate of EV batteries, that number and scale will only improve.
I can’t charge at home and I knew that, when I put my name down for a first gen Niro EV 64kWh. Which after personal testing, would have given 2.8-3.1mi avg. per kWh, (summer) in hilly Wales. However, circumstance change and the Kia dealership gouging the market by upping the price by over £8,000 forced cancellation and I carried on with the Mondeo 2L, which easily did 38-42mpg avg. in hilly Wales; and had a £295 VED. I now drive a Polo 1.2L, which does 51mpg avg. year round; and has a £20 VED.
I really looked forward to owning an EV. But with the quadrupling of public charging rates and the charging networks being no more reliable than four years ago, plus the planned near £190 VED for EVs. I’m now so glad I’m not an EV owner.
AT LAST. ! I thought this was the most useful video or research even, on EV vs Hybrid vs PHEV I’ve seen, well done, good work. A lot of great work, and the results raise some important aspects, and what you did NOT mention, also warrants being stated - insurance. EV insurance seems to be about 3x any other insurance. It could simply be they are more expensive, or they are costlier to repair, or both and something else. But, green, no longer seems to equal economical. Another issue raised is taxation. And those questionable congestion-type charges.
I’ll start with taxation. I think that being charged more than 50% tax on car fuel is undemocratic. None of us voted for this. I am trying hard to think of something comparable, and I think it’s alcohol. Or cigarettes. High tax on cigarettes has made people buy foreign cigarettes with even worse filters. Is that a win? high tax on alcohol, is less clearly a problem. But you will tend to buy cheaper, lousier alcoholic beverages, and it’s more likely to be a mix of chemicals than to be fermented, brewed, or any other long, slow method of making drinks. But as I neither smoke nor drink, it doesn’t matter to me. The point is, there’s neither a mandate outright for high taxes on fuel, nor for heavy-handed congestion charges that have little bearing on environmental factors though they purport to do so.
I pushed the limit of affordability, and bought a hybrid. Over ten years old. That’s it. I stretched out and put my stake in the green ground, as far as I humanly could. I’m in Yorkshire - so as we now know, we were never going to get any improvement in rail or other transport anytime soon, so cars etc it is. Given this massive stretch by me, a huge attempt to help out, why am I slammed with petrol that costs nearly £7 a gallon? I’ve done what I could, and all I have managed is to put petrol prices back to about £1.25 a litre. That’s it. I am pro-green electricity, wind power, some solar I guess even in the UK, and even a little nuclear - but not much thanks.
But I object to being taxed to death on the 7,000 miles a year I do, which basically makes up for the failure of public transport and infrastructure in the UK by successive governments, but particularly in the last 13 years. And HS2 having died, is no surprise. It looked like it might go past Brum for a brief second, then we fell back to the norms. Just draw a line from Bristol up to The Wash/Peterborough, and there’s your north/south divide. It’s not complex. I’m not even saying who’s better off, you will note!
Electric charging at 75p per kWh? Who’s going to do that, that doesn’t have enough clout on the Board of Directors, to push aside the Accountant’s protests at the extra cost compared to a regular ICE vehicle! So, for company cars doing any distance, that’s that. That they can get away with it, is criminal. That our government BENEFITS from a war going in in Ukraine, and Russia’s invasion, by pushing pump prices through the roof, and therefor the tax-take, is also criminal.
Lastly, purchase prices. even doing astronomical miles, in town, the EV is damned by the terrible purchase price. How long to make up for seven extra grand spent? I think the Break-Even-Point is somewhere out in the 2040’s? EV prices, are becoming very suspect. People spoke of prices equalising - but they didn’t say this would be done by RAISING ICE car prices. Cars that were £14k 7 years ago, are now almost £20k. And EVs have continued to be high twenties and mid-thirties for a decent one. Renault were even trying to charge over £30k for a new Zoe last year, the BASE MODEL ffs. Then, somehow, dealers mysteriously began selling some for £20k or so, a more useful number, probably not far off a realistic price for a new one.
I am going to sum up by concluding simply this: EVs are NOT AN ANSWER it seems. They’ve been kept pricey, and the energy to ‘fuel’ them has followed suit. Legacy motor manufacturers have jumped on the bandwagon of EVs as profiteering it seems. And a lot of these EVs are a bit average, truly. I mean, for about £23k say, these EV Niros are not bad, but for almost £40k? Then you can only drive them near your home or negotiate informally with people at your destination, or get ripped for re-charging? Phfft. EVs, I hugely looked forward to - for about ten years. Then, I gave up. They SHOULD have been an answer. But given they are NOT an answer, why are hybrids punished in this country for taxation? It’s a f@cking mess, mate. Combined with the lack of a spine of this government to build wind turbines anywhere remotely scenic, because of spoiling people’s view (don’t they know there is a war on - no seriously, there really is), it’s pathetic.
You shouldn’t have to get a SEVEN year old hybrid, to pay the same low road tax as a one-litre petrol turbo car. I quote from my own family. Wife has a Clio mk4 0.9Tce, pays £20 road tax a year. I have a Prius from the gen 3 era (pre-2017 crucially) and so the Road Tax is zero. Now, it’d be £170. Why on Earth does a hybrid car, giving 50mpg, have to pay EIGHT TIMES the road tax of a conventional ICE one? To give context, the Clio mk4, has never exceeded 44mpg. Not once, not under any conditions.
Nobody in government, has a grip. It’s bl@@dy sad. Our whole country is swimming in ‘what do we do now, guys?’ mode. I stopped listening to this govt almost entirely, last week at its conference. It thinks it’s alright, to fill in time, for the next 52 weeks of our lives. I don’t think that is alright, do you? Tread water and come up with hare-brained made-up causes to fight, for the next 12 months until they deign to call an election? It’s far from alright. Take care all.
Great review! Worth mentioning that the London Congestion charge exemption does currently cost an EV owner £10 per year however, within the next 2 years that benefit will end.
I thought I would weigh in here with some figures. 2 Years ago I switched from the 2.2l Diesel Kia Sorento to the new Kia Sorento PHEV (13.5kWh battery with 1.6l Petrol)
In the Diesel car, we were doing an average of 60.8 miles a day with an average running cost of 18.8p/mile. It is also important to note that the average price of diesel when I had the car was £1.21/L compared to around £1.40 today.
In comparison, with the PHEV we are doing an average of 72.6 miles a day with an average running cost of Petrol 8p/mile and Electric 3.7p/mile for a combined 11.7p/mile.
Straight away you can see the saving in the Diesel for 1851miles/month it was costing us £354.94. In the PHEV for a greater 2209miles/month it is only costing us about £250/month.
Not to mention that after nearly 50,000 miles in the PHEV we have only gone through one set of tires and are still to need to have the Break pads replacing. In the diesel we must have gone through 3 or 4 sets of Pads and the same tires.
Of course there are a lot of Caveats in this, for starters we are on a variable tariff so we only pay around 6.5p/kWh between 12:00 and 05:00. Due to the low EV range, we still charge outside of this, however our average cost/kW is still 15p/kWh. (This tariff ends this month at which point we will switch to Octopus Intelligent where I estimate our bill will increase by around 15% overall)
The majority of EV owners who can charge at home will get a variable tariff as it will drastically reduce costs. As we anything each use car as a best case scenario and each will be best depending on how you use it. For us, the PHEV has been great, we would have gone EV but at the time there wasn't a reasonable full BEV 7 seat car that suited our needs. We have since just ordered the Kia EV9 which should arrive in January fingers crossed. Based on my calculations, I should be able to reduce the charging costs to around £50 in this car.
Instavolt is among the most expensive charging network and I would only use this in an emergency. My local Tesla Supercharge is open to other EV's and is only 51p/kWh (58p peak) so far more reasonable. The difference between EV and Petrol is the range of prices, you can shop around different chargers to get a better deal, with Petrol, the difference is only a few pence/l so it's barely worth it.
Yes the car's are more expensive but with other savings such as tax and running cost's, this makes up a lot of the difference. But not all, I just like my gadgets lol
wow u gone through 3 to 4 sets of pads and tires. Did u go drag racing with that thing? It takes a couple of years to replace a set of tires and brake pads. Lol
There is no reason why electricity should be so expensive. Nuclear reactors provide unlimited energy, are not dependent on crude oil or natural gas, and best of all, the UK can reuse spent nuclear fuel rods, so there are no storage worries. Bureaucracy seems to be the problem.
You're right. At a guess, i'd imagine the spending power of oil and gas lobbyists, combined with the anti-nuclear agenda of climate activists, puts the push for safe and affordable nuclear power low on societies agenda. I also suspect that a lot of very rich people are rubbing their hands together at the thought of creating that 'green' infrastructure. Trillions to be made from the taxpayer to build it, and then charge us to use it.
Good video. For me, I went PHEV. Covers my commute, avoids range anxiety for longer trips, and avoids bigger replacement costs for the battery.
You will never get people who do not have the luxury, (It will be called that) of home charging to buy electric cars. Simply because they will (unless there is regulations) be paying more at public chargers. Now what do you think will happen. Private charging increases to public costs? or, public charging cost reduce to private charging.
Im really glad I saw this video, im sticking to my diesel. 80mpg on motorway and 55mpg in town. I don't visit cities so no charges for me. My car is cheaper to run than all three cars in this video. All I have to do is clean out the dpf every once in a while.
Very interesting video, it shows that you need to think carefully about how you intend to use your car before buying it. I am considering buying a Plug In Hybrid, as most of my journeys are short 10-15 miles or so, using a home charger I think this makes sense, however you have to take into account the cost of purchasing the car as well.
Yeah definitely go plug in. We did 4 years ago as most of our journeys are managed on just the electric & don't have to stop at the public network on our longer travels.
Best thing is for work I get paid the full petrol mileage allowance for driving electric. If I buy a full EV this drops to a pittance, for once I'm winning 👍
Phev works well for me, there are some older second hand phevs now allot cheaper than new
But in cold climate the phev will force the engine to run to heat the cabin. So during a winter it won't make much difference compared to a hybrid.
I'd personally avoid getting a PHEV, all my work colleagues who had one got awful electric efficiency at around 2MPkWh's, most good EV's will get closer to 4MPkWh's. So you're better off either biting the bullet and going full EV or just getting a mild hybrid tbh
I switched from a Toyota Yaris 2018 to a Toyota Prius Phev 2020, two years ago. I do not regret my decision. my daily journey is about 42 - 50 miles on mixed roads, with varied speed limits of 30 - 60mph. The Phev has a better mpg even when the traction battery is dead. Phev, for me, is the best of both worlds.
To put this in perspective. I bought my petrol Kia Ceed GTLine from Motorpoint for £16k, 81 months warranty with 1.4k on the clock. Would have done the Brum trip for about £38 and the City one for about £3,80. You do the math(s). This going new green is VERY expensive regardless.
I love how people really thought they were going to drive their EVs for a lot cheaper than ICE vehicles.
I was shocked (no pun intended) to see that your charging cost at home was so high. The general public here in Australia is complaining about our high energy costs but the home charging cost you quoted in the story is over twice the price per KWh we are paying in Australia! 😮
Our energy costs are almost uniquely high in this country, although since the video was made they have started to fall. However, it looks like he was charging on his normal home energy tariff, whereas most energy companies offer an EV tariff that will charge the car far cheaper, with the best being a firm called Octopus that does it at literally a quarter of the price he quoted.
Same as New Zealand. The charging cost used here is twice my day rate and almost four times my night rate. In addition, my account with Genesis Energy means I get the same rate at any Chargenet station in the country.
4:05 Why not charging both plugin cars during the "quick coffee" at Birmingham ? Even if it is just for 15 minutes. For the EV, it could have been enough not to stop on the way back. Regarding the stop on the way back, wasn't the car able to heat the battery to charge at a higher power ? Most recent EVs do, but I do not know for this model.
Interesting numbers...how about resale values for the 3 cars? Second hand for 2 year old EV's. Prices seem to have crashed, 50% depreciation for electric?
This is an excellent experiment, thank you. What was wrong with the Niro EV getting such low efficiency figures I wonder? I've just completed a 600+mile (mostly motorway) journey in mine, and never once got below 3.7m/kWh.
This may look like an excellent experiment to those who don't know anything about electric cars, but as someone who's had an electric car for a few years, I can tell you that this is somewhat misleading. They failed to mention so much....
@@ricco123tubeCan you please share the things that you feel were missed out? I’m looking to buy a car next year and genuinely don’t know which version to go for. Based on this test only I would for the regular hybrid. Many thanks
If you can charge at home, you would get a smart tariff and pay as low as 7.5p per kw not the 30p they are quoting. Secondly you need to work out how much 3rd party rapid charging you are likely to do and factor that cost in. Tesla superchargers are half the rate of the rest at the moment. Plus what car are you buying. New or used etc etc. If I was buying on a budget I'd be getting a 2nd hand model 3 (based on driving one for 80K)
@@deanwhiteley3065 Off-Peak charging makes EV a whole lot cheaper than they suggest. Tesla's supercharger network is by far the best- works every time and uber reliable.
Given the beanies on display looks like this was recorded much earlier in 2023 so temperature probably played a factor. My Ioniq 5 is getting 3.9-4.0 on the motorway and > 5 around town at the moment. Living in London and rarely doing long trips makes having an ev work for me at the moment. Most weeks I can get by with just the free charging whilst shopping at Sainsbury’s 😂
Please include a diesel for reference next time
My BMW X1 2.0 diesel gets 42mpg.
That's a really interesting test, and I was quite shocked by the overall result - especially the ridiculously high price per KwHr at the Instavolt charger. Would be really good to see the figures extended to take account of real world servicing and maintenance costs, tyres, insurance and maybe add in depreciation.
I've wanted an EV for the longest time, but this is making me think twice about it, that 280 mile motorway journey would cost me £30-£40 in my diesel Skoda Superb - a used car that cost me half of the purchase price of the cheapest vehicle on test here.
This test is worst case scenario. The price for kWh at home is way over what most people will be paying (over double) and by looking at the data and knowing roughly what the e-Niro can do, it seems like he charged the battery too much at the rapid charger, wich you learn not to do when you get an electric car and start living with it.
Also, if you were doing mostly motorway on an EV, the Tesla Model 3 is going to be noticeably more efficient than the e-NIRO and similiarly priced.
Servicing and maintenance will be more expensive for petrol, but tyres, insurance and depreciation will be worse for electric cars.
Electric cars are heavier, they will wear out tyres more quickly, might even require more expensive tyres. They also damage the public infrastructure more due to this factor.
Insurance will be higher because they are more expensive to replace and repair when damaged.
Depreciation will be higher for two reasons. One they are more expensive so even if they depreciate at the same rate, it's a bigger number. And then as they age they will depreciate at a higher rate, no rational person would buy a 5 year old BEV without a significant margin to a brand new one, as the remaining life of the very expensive battery is dubious.
If you charged that EV on Octopus’s EV tariff, which is 7.5p, that 280 mile journey would cost £5.10.
The only thing that shocked me was the way the piece was contrived and biased against the actual EV experience in these circumstances. It's almost deliberately geared to make the EV look bad, by using incorrect home charging rates, double-costing the city driving element, and ignoring the fact that normally, a driver would wish to stop halfway for a short break, regardless of their vehicle type.
A "test" with an agenda! Well spotted.@@Roll_the_Bones
Very well done. Covered a lot of variables. I have a phev and solar panels. I make decisions based on what may be the best for the environment rather than what works out best economically. I will never get back in energy saving costs what i spent. However, it is my responsibility to minimize the damage I do to the environment that I live in. If we could get most people to do at least something to help, the kids of the future will be better off.
with the oil price thats going unstable, this calculations can change signicantly to the HEV & PHEV. there are also some routine maintenance to the engines of PHEV & HEV that can spike up the costs
Given the situation with the rise in price of electricity, the costs are very different now from a couple of years ago. I'm still running an ICE, and weirdly, it seems cheap compared to the TCOA of an EV at the moment. Interesting test - I thought the PHEV would have been more efficient.
There are still cheap night time tariffs for electric , I've got solar panels so 3/4 of the year I actually get paid to fill my car up ( fit scheme) and if you have a car over three years you have to take maintenance into account, there is virtually none on a EV .
Having said that with the price of electric at rapid chargers if you do allot of motorway miles or can't charge at home even I would have Ice car currently .
If energy prices return to pre Ukraine war then it's far cheaper in electric.
@@davefitzpatrick4841 absolutely agree with you. No charge at home and you do many miles = don't get an EV it's probably not worth it
Petrol and Diesel prices have risen more than Electricity prices. The savings for fuelling your EV compared to an ICE vehicle are even greater than they were before. This video is very misleading. I can say that as someone who has owned an EV for seven years and I have also driven a Kia e-Niro from London to Nottingham and back. The most expensive filling my battery ever gets is only at the most expensive chargers and even then it only equates to petrol/diesel prices, it doesn't exceed them. Jonathan Porterfield of Eco Cars often remarks that he doesn't mind paying high prices for charging his EV on long journeys because it's more than compensated for by the extremely low cost of charging it at home. The very occasional need for very long journeys doesn't notably inflate the cost of running and owning his car.
@@trevorberridge6079 Interesting! I had considered an EV but live in a flat with no charging points.
@@davefitzpatrick4841 Yep, if you've got access at home, that's great. I live in a flat with no charge points, so EV probably not for me - at least at present.
Another highly suspicious article from a publication that gets the majority of its revenue from companies related to the ICE industry. As other people have said the majority of people with BEVs charge at home overnight at much less than 30p and as to economy for the Niro EV that does not sound like my experience. If they want a real comparison ask people who have driven all three types over a number of years, as I have. I can tell you which is the clear winner….Just to add. I looked at my stats for the last month. Travelled 839 miles average consumption 5.53 mile per Kwh in my e-Niro . Just calculated that with my current overnight rate that cost me £11.58 my quick comparison against a 60mpg car was I saved £78 ! Still what does that matters Iam not working for a motoring magazine that will have the story then published in the wider media as gospel.
An interesting test, but i would have been useful to see other metrics and scenarios compared auch as low price charging overnight and C02 emissions comparison.
Surely it was obvious to 3 of you & the editor that the Niro EV did not do the first 200 miles on 34.5 kWh @ 30 pence. The car had a charge when you got it, so it was 64 kWh of a charge to do your man maths with. 64 x 30 pence a kWh £19.20. Then the PHEV & Hybrid have 6 speed dual clutch gearboxes not 8 speed.
Did anyone consider that most people living in London can’t charge at home, especially if they live in the congestion zone and they are less like to be able to afford an EV in the first place? Rent to salary ratio is outrageous in London too and landlords are not putting EV charging into their properties and good luck if you live on a council estate! You can’t force people to not have a car and use public transport and you can’t blame them for living where they do either. A solutions this has to work for all. Petrol (diesel) are the only options right now
Instavolt are one of the most expensive. He said he didn't need to add as much as he did and did more miles so it wasn't a comparable journey. If most of your mileage is from home I e. round trips up to 270 or so then electric works out cheaper. I have done 265 miles on one charge in my eNiro and over 2 years have averaged 4 5 miles per kWh.
Agreed that Instavolt is way more expensive. Tesla is only 44p or 40p per kw depending on time, so would of been almost half the cost to charge at a supercharger than instavolt.
Would be interesting to see real cost difference including price of ownership built in for each:
- Monthly PCP
- Monthly Insurance
- Monthly Road Tax
As I'm sure that would make the electric option look even less appealing. Electricity prices are nothing like they were when electric cars appeared to be the solution for cheaper motoring!
Would also be good to see how the above figures compared to a similar sized petrol and diesel car.
Interesting video though! 👍
This was altered because they used the top back up to full price to calculate the EV journey. If you leave home with a full battery charged on cheaper home rates, the top back up figure should be this price. They used the most expensive way to recharge the EV. He didn't mention what he was at when he got to the instavolt and then added 150 miles. If the whole journey was 280miles and he was half way back when he charged, he only had 70miles left to go. So he overcharged at the expensive rate when he could have done the minimum charge there and the majority at home. Rookie mistake there.
Yes, a used ev would cost me around £6k so id need a loan for that, my current car cost £500, no loan needed!
Agree. Think you would also need to include the depreciation of the car too.
I've seen other comparisons where an EV lost 50% value compared to a petrol losing 20% value in a similar period, as the market for secondhand EVs is bad.
And as for recycling....
@@jimwhook Banbury isn't halfway back - its closer to Birmingham and there was probably more like 80-90 miles to go. Considering it dropped its "285mile" range to needing a top up by then - somewhere around 200 miles, even adding "150miles" would be nowhere near that in reality so it might have had ~20 miles left when they got back.
Would you run it much closer than that to save a quid?
@@siraff4461 well, I don't know the UK and I was going by the rough map. They never stated what the EV was at when they stopped to charge but they did say themselves that they overcharged. This was also to simulate leaving from home and returning to home. So yes, I would do this. I also would drop back to 65 on the motorway. It doesn't add much to the time on the journey but it extends the range. There are also cheaper public chargers. With an EV with a max of 80kw, using a 150kw was just pointless. I would have gone for a cheaper 50kw. I would have spent the same time as this guy but would have just put in enough. The petrol refill should have been on premium to match. Not a far comparison when they are putting a foot on the scales... 🤷🏻♂️
Seems like the ev costing included what was left in the 'tank' after getting home, which was probably a lot if he charged to 100% and no mention of cheap off peak rates. Also electricity prices are expected to drop quite soon.
Agreed, fully charging the cars and refilling with petrol at the end of the test would have been a more representative comparison. An experienced EV driver would only have charged enough to complete the journey, not to 100%. Making it clear that EV tariffs of 7.5 to 10 p/kwhr are the norm for EV drivers who charge from home. The nearest public chargers to us are free, but that is the exception and not the norm.
Sure 🤡☝️
Being an owner of 2 electric cars and doing regular long trips, I feel like they have just decided to use the absolute worst case scenario and then some for the EV.
Who pays 30p/kWh to charge at home (7.5p myself or free at work) and how did he put more kWs in at the instavolt than at home when most of the journey was done on the original charge. I shan't be trusting any more data or videos form them.
We drove our Tesla from South Florida to Atlanta. What should have be 10 hour trip. Turned into 16 hours. Filled with anxiety
Cost is not the big differentiator here, it’s clean air. In Los Angeles there’s now a strong correlation between number of EVs and a reduction in the number of hospital admissions for lung problems. Whilst petrol is not as bad as diesel there is still significantly more pollution than EVs