Another small note, the weight difference could also have played a factor in the wind resistance, but it was a pretty small difference. The Mako3 coming in at 180g and the Mind Bender being 177g, could have played a factor, could have not mattered… but worth noting and something I forgot to mention in the video!
@@lightenup_bro I can confirm that, i have MB 180, 178 and 177 grams and the 180 is most stable in the wind and for me, all of them holds up better compared to my Mako3 180 gram champion, in the wind. For some reason, my MB gives me overall a cleaner release compared to Mako - But still great discs all of them.
It definitely made a difference. I've got a 177g and 180g Opto Claymore and in no wind or windy situations, the 180g one will have more gyroscopic stability and less tendency to turn in headwinds.
Great review, very detailed Good to know the mako3 is safer in a breeze. Flashing comes and goes. Manufacturers have problems with it on every disc at some point. Utility knyfe will fix em in a couple minutes.
I recently picked up a MindBender - and quickly did a comparison vs my Mako3 and Coyote (beat to death flippy). Your power thrower vs. finesse thrower is spot on 👍. As a finesse thrower, myself, I found it to be the case. I actually love the “touchiness” of the MindBender. Thanks for the awesome comparison video. Your videos always help me analyze my game and bag - which helps me enjoy the hobby even more. Kudos, my friend. 👍👍
Was at a tournament yesterday and watched the single vendor there almost sell out of Mind Benders. It seemed as if everyone had to have one. I demurred from purchasing due to the colours and their inability to be dyed, that is, no white. I loved the Mako3 when I started out and at one point just moved to the Fuse and Bounty. However, I’d still recommend the Mako3 to beginners. Love the metric conversions. Love the callback to Creators Cup participants.
Great video, and interesting you made this vid, as I was debating to buy a bender as I’m a mako3 user, and find my champion mako3 is myihest flyer of now 3 seasons worth of play. And my star versions fly straight at 75% power, and fade to be a tad, understable like your bender did on your understable comment, at 80-100% power. So to your point, I’ve become a finesse player now but use my arm speed to be adjusted for specific flights of the mako, so guess your vid confirmed it, I don’t need to buy a bender… thx and always great reviews. :)
I've held a lot of brand-new Mako3's, and each one has that really bad flashing issue. It doesn't really matter what plastic or run, it's pretty prominent. However, once the flashing is sanded down, the rim becomes one of the most comfortable to hold.
Interesting, that must be an issue in recent years. I used to throw them four or five years ago. I don't remember any flashing issues. I'd throw 180g Gstar and 170g star almost always in orange. I'd swap out the star for the Gstar in the winter. If I ever put together an all Innova bag I'll definitely be throwing a Mako3 again.
@@ericdunthorne1981 I'll agree with this. The newer tour series Mako3 runs have no flashing. That never truly concerned me though, the tiniest bit of mild sandpaper to the rim takes it away instantly.
I just bought my first Mako3 and it definitely has the flashing issue making me want to get the sandpaper out. Got a Mamba at the same time that had zero flashing.
Really nice review, again! This is a very underrated channel and I hope you continue to grow. If I see your Insta post on MB restock, I'll try to snag one! I've had a Mako3 in champion for awhile and I like the new MD1 a lot more. I like the feel of the plastic more, how it fits in my hand just seems to work better, I've been more consistent with it on the course, and the stamp just rocks. I'm also biased to Discmania and SL over Innova, so there's that!
Yeah, I can see why some might not be a fan of the design, but I personally like the stamp! And hopefully I will get the restock in the next few days! it is currently in transit! 💪
Fun fact: if you just rub the bottom of the disc on the teepad it will take that flashing right off. Or you can just carry a small folded up piece of sandpaper around like I do. Nice content btw.
Don't know why... I have just never been a fan of doing that! I don't care if others do it... but with my discs, I don't know... I just don't like "modding" them in any way or sanding the bottom, I like to keep the discs as is! and let the flashing just work itself off... I think I'm just scared of sanding too far and sanding the actual mold and effecting it's stability! And thanks! I'm glad you like the content!
@@ApolloDiscGolf Flashing can affect stability for sure but it’s not modding according to the PDGA to remove it. I’d consider the flashing a deviation from the mold based on manufacturing imperfection. I’ve never removed too much.
Been hoping someone would do this!!! Lost my Mako in a pond last season, always seemed like it would turnover with too much power, finally replaced it with the Mind Bender.
Yeah, I haven’t bought too many new Innova discs recently… just a few wraiths and those I didn’t have an issue with flashing, but this one definitely surprised me!
I have a Hailey king mako 3 that flies really straight with a tiny finish. Might try to replace it with a fission reactor to complement my glow reactor. I also used to have a 170 star Mako 3 that I loved for 315' lazer straight shots and would turn to the right RHBH if the wind picked up.
Watched the VLog of Simon, went to the Discmania online shop - and this question was my very first thing that came up. Have been a huge fan of the Mako, but was wondering about giving the Mind Bender a chance, just for fun.
I just picked up my first mako3 in star plastic today. I had a stack of about 8 to pick from all in star plastic. I ended up going with a max weight yellow-green one because it had zero flashing, and it had no tooling marks on the flight plate. I noticed that all the other discs had flashing on the rim, and tooling marks on the flight plate in every other color. You could see the marks from a cnc machine cutting the mold on every color but the yellow ones. Those tooling marks made the top feel more slick in hand, while the yellow discs felt very tacky and perfectly smooth. I’ve noticed the same thing on my orange star destroyer. It has the same type of very light cnc cut lines on the flight plate. Idk if this is caused by the mold itself, or how the plastic cools.
It could also just be a new mold that was made for it! Because they do eventually wear out over time... Takes a LONG time, but they do need replaced every once in a while... So your yellow was an older mold and the ones with the CNC markings was a fresh new mold that hasn't been broken in yet? That's just a guess though!
Had a Make3 in Star plastic. The flashing started to cut my finger once the disc was worn in a little bit. I switched it out to my Clash Discs - Berry to get the more straight flight.
Every time I've tried a Mako3, I found that it did not have much torque resistance. I can slam on the Mind Bender and it still flies on the line I want
Interesting! Maybe it was just the one I got, but the Mako3 I had definitely could handle more power than my Mind Bender! But also saw another comment saying the orange ones weren’t as stable as some of the other colors so 🤷🏻♂️
@@ApolloDiscGolf Right on, my hands are fairly soft, probably due to excessive sweat; so I pamper ‘em. Side note: I currently bag a champ leopard and a Gstar leopard 3. Im looking to compliment them with either an innova it, a centurion, or a pierce passion. Would be great to see some fairway comparisons with these if you’re looking for ideas for future informative videos. Thanks for your videos & keep up the good work!!
@@entropie yeah, I have been interested in checking out the IT! And the centurion I have heard great things about those! I currently have a Passion that I am planning on doing something with for sure!
Good review as always! Mako, glide of 5, MD1 glide of 6, no mention on glide? Looked pretty similar? Is the touch of under-stability also part of the MD1's glidiness? I picked up a Mindbender and agreed with your assessment of it's finesse and touch advantage. I stopped throwing putters throughout the (mid/putter) round because I could just power down and spin and touch the mindbender. Very impressed.
solid video. That is pretty much exactly what I thought as well. The flights between the MB and the Mako3 were so similar for me, it was basically just the subtle differences in release. the MB is much closer to a Mako3 than a Buzz imho. At least a fresh buzz
If you remember the Original M1 was the same disc as the Innova Mako. This new MD1 is an Understable disc with an overstable plastic. So like you said it is a FINESSE disc. Nice review.
@@ApolloDiscGolf Nice! I feel like the Jay has just been hiding from the world for some reason haha. Also, the Mid Disc 3 would be an interesting one to compare to the MD3. I’m sure you have a list of videos to make, but thanks for the awesome content. Your comparisons are the best on UA-cam 👌🏼
Interesting! Then I will definitely start using that for wind! Thanks for letting me know! It still baffles me how many views I get from Finland and Sweden, y’all are awesome! Definitely on my bucket list to get over there and play some of the beautiful courses over there!
I throw a Mako3 very often. It is my favorite midrange. I play in central Kansas in the wind often and the Mako3 is the most stable disc in the wind. It is not affected much by the wind. It feels heavier than my other discs and glides the best. I can always count on it for a straight shot regardless of the conditions.
I bought a Star Mako3 last year and it also had bad flashing. Very similar discs, but I prefer the Mind Bender. I throw the anniversary MD1 and that is a tick more stable.
Earlier this year I bought a star sidewinder, and the flashing was so bad it tore up my fingers and I had to use a knife to kind of scrape it off. I mainly throw innova, so this disappointed me.
I got a mind bender from your store the other day and I'm super excited to go out and throw it today. I bag a lot of innova, including a mako3, but mine is in champion plastic and at least with my arm speed, it fights out of an anhyzer fairly quick. It actually flies similarly to my DX Roc. Hoping the mind mender will be a little straighter.
Thank you! And yeah, my guess is that the Mind Bender will be straighter! I haven’t thrown a champ Mako3 in a long time, but usually the champ is more stable!
⭐Mako3 is my #1 disc since I got the best ace I've seen in person with it. That Mindbender seems like my L64 opto fuse which is good but no reason to get one now I guess, I thought it would be a bit more stable than the mako3 similar to my L64 opto Compass but a little straighter.
The biggest difference I've seen is that the Mind Bender has had more torque resistance. I was super pumped to compare these two molds so I did this same test as you, only I used more plastic types for the mako3: Champion, Star, Color Glow, and Halo Star. Maybe I've got some overstable Mind Benders and understable mako3s, but my testing results were almost opposite (I do know that the recent runs of Star Mako3's have had a decent bit of stability to them, and mine is an older run, so there was that to consider as well). For me, the Mind Bender would show a bit of turn during it's flight, and then slowly straighten back out as it fades. The mako3s thrown flat would slowly turn throughout it's flight, never fading out, except for the Halo Star mako3 which had the most identical flight t o the Mind Bender. I've got more Mind Benders coming in later this week that I will test as well and look forward to throwing them!
Interesting! Yeah, I must have gotten a stable run of Mako3! They are both very nice discs either way! And I saw another comment saying the Orange Mind Benders were less stable as well, so that could be it!
i just have to say the star mako3 feels terrible and is slightly more understable, but the champion plastic mako3 is dead straight with some face and feels awesome and is one of my favorite discs
I've definitely had flashing on discmania discs. It's just happens sometimes, to every manufacturer. It's just something QC missed. I've had kastaplast with flashing. Why wouldn't you just remove the flashing before throwing? Before I throw any disc I remove the flashing if there's any. Wash it to remove any residue from manufacturing. Then I ink my name and number. That way every time I throw a disc for the first time. It's as comfortable as possible.
I don't know. I've just never been someone to modify my discs like that! I have just thrown them, then between holes or something I will scrape at it with my nail... But I have never really gone too much out of my way to sand it off or rub it off on the teepad or anything... I think just because I don't want to sand the disc itself and make it flippy? I don't know! I have just never done it!
You should get yourself an Alfa Discs Apollo and compare the three. It even has your name on it. I got it as a mystery disc from Infinite and I'm digging it, haven't thrown a mako 3 or a roc in weeks and that's very odd.
I have the md1 the md3 in c line and a glow sparkle mako3. And the mako3 beats them both. I may go three not only flies further it holds a truer line. I've parked 300 ft holes with my mako the MD line seems to be about a 210-250 mid. The md3 seems to be a bit more stable than the md1 but not much my mako3 is slightly understable with a nice finish at the end if I had to give it last two members would be - 1,1. I use my md3 much more than the md1, for me the MD one is much too understable and cannot take the same amount of power as the mako3. For reference I have around the 420 foot backhand. And no flashing issue with the 2023 sparkle glow plastic That I've seen in fact I rather smooth lip and finish
There is a reason Simon throws the purple mind bender. In my field work testing I found that the purples handle the best torque. Orange and reds seem to be the most understable of the bunch.
Buying a disc with 0 fade I would expect to get a disc that has 0 fade...A disc that just stays straight or falls out of the sky when it reaches the end of its flight. Saying the Mako3 fades out at the end would tell me that it is a more overstable run since technically its flight numbers are 0 fade. I would say that your Mako 3 in this video is more comparable to the MD3 based on flight or the older MD1 maybe MD2...So I believe both these discs in the video could really have a spot in your bag I would really NEVER throw the Mind Bender in the wind simply because it is a disc that has 0 fade and I know it won't hold up. Reading some comments I think the biggest factor is the difference in runs...take the mystery box MD1 for example....completely different disc, way more overstable than the mind bender. It all comes down to throwing these molds for yourself and finding out which ones fly the best for you, it is hard to make a decision on a disc just by watching someone else throw it. Nonetheless great vid! You always have some great thoughts and good comparisons that at least give a thrower a starting point of what to expect in a disc! I picked up 2 of these on release because I knew they would be an amazing turn over mid range! They have yet to disappoint me :D
Yeah the Mind Benders are solid! And I wouldn’t say this Mako3 is closer to an MD3, the MD3’s are pretty stable! Like they won’t turn at all whatsoever and will give a decent fade at the end! The only 2 discs I have ever thrown that just drops out of the sky with 0 fade are the Nova and the Berg! Most of the other ones I have thrown always have a touch of turn and touch of fade… They are great discs either way!
I slightly disagree. Not only is it good for a beginner to have a more reliable disc to start with…availability of the Mako3 is far greater than a Simon Mind Bender. Great review though.
Very true! availability it huge! You can find a Mako3 for cheap just about everywhere... Hopefully they start making stock versions of the MD1 that is more available, because that would be a solid option too!
I've thrown a Mako3 before and LOVED the flight. The slight little flip up, super workable. But mine had terrible flashing on it as well, super sharp rim and it felt like it was cutting my hand on every throw. Had to stop using it, just hated the feel in my hand. Hoping the Mind Bender will fix that!
You are way too interested what is happening around you, we are not seeing anything about it so it doesnt matter to us just relax and focus to your thing ;).
Mako3 has that flashing stability, but I also wouldn't be surprised if the Star plastic has more stability than that gummy plastic of the Mind Bender. When I bought a Star Mako3 as part of a set for my brother last Christmas, I had to sand off the flashing on the bottom; it was pretty sharp.
In my experience, flat mako3s are more neutral than the domey ones. The Kona Mako3s were very domey and flew like 5,5,0,1. Flat top star mako3s are money and fly true to the numbers. The mind bender seems to be closer to the flat tops but with slightly more turn. Maybe somewhere around 5,5,-.5,0. All of that said, Simon deserves to have these discs fly off the shelf.
Idk, I usually find their mids and putters to be more consistent! But you find can inconsistencies everywhere so 🤷🏻♂️ Event with just the proto Athena’s I had 3 different Athena’s fly differently! And that’s just one large run! Not even mass produced yet! So definitely something every company has… Innova‘s just the one that gets bashed for it more because they are so big!
Another small note, the weight difference could also have played a factor in the wind resistance, but it was a pretty small difference. The Mako3 coming in at 180g and the Mind Bender being 177g, could have played a factor, could have not mattered… but worth noting and something I forgot to mention in the video!
definitely the weight difference. I got a 180g and 177g mind bender. the 180 holds up better in wind.
@@lightenup_bro I can confirm that, i have MB 180, 178 and 177 grams and the 180 is most stable in the wind and for me, all of them holds up better compared to my Mako3 180 gram champion, in the wind. For some reason, my MB gives me overall a cleaner release compared to Mako - But still great discs all of them.
could also be the amount of revs on each throw… even if u released them both flat if one spun a bit faster it would effect the way it turns!
It definitely made a difference.
I've got a 177g and 180g Opto Claymore and in no wind or windy situations, the 180g one will have more gyroscopic stability and less tendency to turn in headwinds.
My Mako3 started really resistant to flipping in the wind but once it broke in it flew a lot like what you described the mind bender in the wind as.
Great review, very detailed
Good to know the mako3 is safer in a breeze.
Flashing comes and goes. Manufacturers have problems with it on every disc at some point.
Utility knyfe will fix em in a couple minutes.
I recently picked up a MindBender - and quickly did a comparison vs my Mako3 and Coyote (beat to death flippy). Your power thrower vs. finesse thrower is spot on 👍. As a finesse thrower, myself, I found it to be the case. I actually love the “touchiness” of the MindBender. Thanks for the awesome comparison video. Your videos always help me analyze my game and bag - which helps me enjoy the hobby even more. Kudos, my friend. 👍👍
Thank you! I’m glad you like the videos! And I’m glad they increase your love for the sport! That means I’m doing something right! 🙌🏼
Was at a tournament yesterday and watched the single vendor there almost sell out of Mind Benders. It seemed as if everyone had to have one. I demurred from purchasing due to the colours and their inability to be dyed, that is, no white. I loved the Mako3 when I started out and at one point just moved to the Fuse and Bounty. However, I’d still recommend the Mako3 to beginners. Love the metric conversions. Love the callback to Creators Cup participants.
Thanks! and Yeah, the mako3 is great! the Fuse and Bounty are also great mids! Those are a bit more understable than these, right?
@@ApolloDiscGolf the Fuse is definitely more understand, but feels closer to the Mind Bender than the Mako...to me at least.
Great video, and interesting you made this vid, as I was debating to buy a bender as I’m a mako3 user, and find my champion mako3 is myihest flyer of now 3 seasons worth of play. And my star versions fly straight at 75% power, and fade to be a tad, understable like your bender did on your understable comment, at 80-100% power. So to your point, I’ve become a finesse player now but use my arm speed to be adjusted for specific flights of the mako, so guess your vid confirmed it, I don’t need to buy a bender… thx and always great reviews. :)
Thank you! And yeah, if you are solid with Mako3's, this isn't anything new! they are pretty interchangeable!
I've held a lot of brand-new Mako3's, and each one has that really bad flashing issue. It doesn't really matter what plastic or run, it's pretty prominent. However, once the flashing is sanded down, the rim becomes one of the most comfortable to hold.
Interesting, that must be an issue in recent years. I used to throw them four or five years ago. I don't remember any flashing issues. I'd throw 180g Gstar and 170g star almost always in orange. I'd swap out the star for the Gstar in the winter. If I ever put together an all Innova bag I'll definitely be throwing a Mako3 again.
@@ericdunthorne1981 I'll agree with this. The newer tour series Mako3 runs have no flashing. That never truly concerned me though, the tiniest bit of mild sandpaper to the rim takes it away instantly.
Yeah, it is a really comfortable rim! It was just the flashing, which after a few rounds wouldn't be that bad!
I just bought my first Mako3 and it definitely has the flashing issue making me want to get the sandpaper out. Got a Mamba at the same time that had zero flashing.
@@sabr77 Yeah I haven't had trouble with their drivers!
Love the reviews broski! Keep up the good work!
Thank you! Glad you like them!
I’d love to see a review on the new Innova Jay, I just got some in champ and Star and I’ve been loving them
Yeah, I need to pick one up and see what it's all about!
Really nice review, again! This is a very underrated channel and I hope you continue to grow. If I see your Insta post on MB restock, I'll try to snag one! I've had a Mako3 in champion for awhile and I like the new MD1 a lot more. I like the feel of the plastic more, how it fits in my hand just seems to work better, I've been more consistent with it on the course, and the stamp just rocks. I'm also biased to Discmania and SL over Innova, so there's that!
Yeah, I can see why some might not be a fan of the design, but I personally like the stamp! And hopefully I will get the restock in the next few days! it is currently in transit! 💪
Fun fact: if you just rub the bottom of the disc on the teepad it will take that flashing right off. Or you can just carry a small folded up piece of sandpaper around like I do. Nice content btw.
Don't know why... I have just never been a fan of doing that! I don't care if others do it... but with my discs, I don't know... I just don't like "modding" them in any way or sanding the bottom, I like to keep the discs as is! and let the flashing just work itself off... I think I'm just scared of sanding too far and sanding the actual mold and effecting it's stability! And thanks! I'm glad you like the content!
@@ApolloDiscGolf Flashing can affect stability for sure but it’s not modding according to the PDGA to remove it. I’d consider the flashing a deviation from the mold based on manufacturing imperfection. I’ve never removed too much.
Great video. You do the best disc comparison videos. I noticed too that the Star Mako3 and Star Roc3s are very stable runs
Thank you! And that is interesting! That would make a lot of sense! This Mako3 could handle a lot of power! It was nice 😂
Been hoping someone would do this!!! Lost my Mako in a pond last season, always seemed like it would turnover with too much power, finally replaced it with the Mind Bender.
Yeah, they are both great discs! very similar!
I said it the same way. I just have Mikey editing my mistakes lol
All of the Innova discs I've ever bough have had quite a bit of flashing
Yeah, I haven’t bought too many new Innova discs recently… just a few wraiths and those I didn’t have an issue with flashing, but this one definitely surprised me!
I have a Hailey king mako 3 that flies really straight with a tiny finish. Might try to replace it with a fission reactor to complement my glow reactor. I also used to have a 170 star Mako 3 that I loved for 315' lazer straight shots and would turn to the right RHBH if the wind picked up.
Yeah it is a solid disc!
Watched the VLog of Simon, went to the Discmania online shop - and this question was my very first thing that came up. Have been a huge fan of the Mako, but was wondering about giving the Mind Bender a chance, just for fun.
Yeah, VERY similar! Both great discs!
So glad you did not get cut! Or hit by an errant disc! Hope your health isurance is up to par... you are a daredevil for sure!
I just picked up my first mako3 in star plastic today. I had a stack of about 8 to pick from all in star plastic. I ended up going with a max weight yellow-green one because it had zero flashing, and it had no tooling marks on the flight plate. I noticed that all the other discs had flashing on the rim, and tooling marks on the flight plate in every other color. You could see the marks from a cnc machine cutting the mold on every color but the yellow ones. Those tooling marks made the top feel more slick in hand, while the yellow discs felt very tacky and perfectly smooth. I’ve noticed the same thing on my orange star destroyer. It has the same type of very light cnc cut lines on the flight plate. Idk if this is caused by the mold itself, or how the plastic cools.
It could also just be a new mold that was made for it! Because they do eventually wear out over time... Takes a LONG time, but they do need replaced every once in a while... So your yellow was an older mold and the ones with the CNC markings was a fresh new mold that hasn't been broken in yet? That's just a guess though!
Haven’t even watched yet and I’m excited! I love my Mako3 but covet the Mindbender
The sharp flashing does bother my fingers a bit…
They are both VERY good discs!
@@acdg7431 but yes, the flashing surprised me on the Mako3!
Great review! Thanks!
@@acdg7431 I use a wood plane set really shallow to remove flashing, works perfectly and only takes 20 seconds
Had a Make3 in Star plastic. The flashing started to cut my finger once the disc was worn in a little bit. I switched it out to my Clash Discs - Berry to get the more straight flight.
I need to try Clash discs! I haven’t had the chance to throw any of their stuff yet!
Every time I've tried a Mako3, I found that it did not have much torque resistance. I can slam on the Mind Bender and it still flies on the line I want
Interesting! Maybe it was just the one I got, but the Mako3 I had definitely could handle more power than my Mind Bender! But also saw another comment saying the orange ones weren’t as stable as some of the other colors so 🤷🏻♂️
Yes, Innova disks have flashing issues; imho. I end up having to sand 'em smooth.
Yeah I have never been one of those guys to sand down the flashing, I have always just suffered through flashing and slowly scrap it off over time 😂
@@ApolloDiscGolf Right on, my hands are fairly soft, probably due to excessive sweat; so I pamper ‘em. Side note: I currently bag a champ leopard and a Gstar leopard 3. Im looking to compliment them with either an innova it, a centurion, or a pierce passion. Would be great to see some fairway comparisons with these if you’re looking for ideas for future informative videos. Thanks for your videos & keep up the good work!!
@@entropie yeah, I have been interested in checking out the IT! And the centurion I have heard great things about those! I currently have a Passion that I am planning on doing something with for sure!
Good review as always! Mako, glide of 5, MD1 glide of 6, no mention on glide? Looked pretty similar? Is the touch of under-stability also part of the MD1's glidiness? I picked up a Mindbender and agreed with your assessment of it's finesse and touch advantage. I stopped throwing putters throughout the (mid/putter) round because I could just power down and spin and touch the mindbender. Very impressed.
Yeah that could be it! Or it could have been the weight… it is 3g lighter than the mako3 in this video!
solid video. That is pretty much exactly what I thought as well. The flights between the MB and the Mako3 were so similar for me, it was basically just the subtle differences in release. the MB is much closer to a Mako3 than a Buzz imho. At least a fresh buzz
Oh yeah! I just compared it to my beat up Buzzz in the review because that's what it reminded me of in my bag! It's a really solid disc!
If you remember the Original M1 was the same disc as the Innova Mako. This new MD1 is an Understable disc with an overstable plastic. So like you said it is a FINESSE disc. Nice review.
Thank you! And good info on the MD/MD1, I didn’t know they used the Mako mold, that makes sense!
Great comparison! Where do you live? Can't believe that it looks like summer the early October.
Thanks! And I am in KC, this was shot in Emporia though! My wife had something in town so I just went to the park while she had her thing going on 😂
OMG he did it.
The Mako3 is the true 5-5-0-0 disc (for my arm speed) which is why I would prefer it.
Yeah it definitely has a touch more stability than the Mind Bender! it's a solid disc!
i have a domy mako3 and it flips more then the mind bender in wind. depends on the mako3 plastic
Totally, this star one is pretty flat! And I bet the champ ones are more stable, but I haven’t thrown one of those in a while!
Can you please do a review of the Jay? 🙏🏻 I’ve been scouring the Internet and literally nobody has any information about the Innova Jay.
Yeah I recently picked one up! I just need to review it! I have had it a few weeks and have yet to get out and throw it 😂
@@ApolloDiscGolf Nice! I feel like the Jay has just been hiding from the world for some reason haha. Also, the Mid Disc 3 would be an interesting one to compare to the MD3. I’m sure you have a list of videos to make, but thanks for the awesome content. Your comparisons are the best on UA-cam 👌🏼
Just a small thing with wind speed. Atleast with us swedes and finns, we use m/s not kph :)
Would be great to have that :)
Interesting! Then I will definitely start using that for wind! Thanks for letting me know! It still baffles me how many views I get from Finland and Sweden, y’all are awesome! Definitely on my bucket list to get over there and play some of the beautiful courses over there!
I throw a Mako3 very often. It is my favorite midrange. I play in central Kansas in the wind often and the Mako3 is the most stable disc in the wind. It is not affected much by the wind. It feels heavier than my other discs and glides the best. I can always count on it for a straight shot regardless of the conditions.
Yeah this was the first time I threw it a bunch and I really liked it!
I bought a Star Mako3 last year and it also had bad flashing. Very similar discs, but I prefer the Mind Bender. I throw the anniversary MD1 and that is a tick more stable.
Yeah the Mind Benders are really nice!
Earlier this year I bought a star sidewinder, and the flashing was so bad it tore up my fingers and I had to use a knife to kind of scrape it off. I mainly throw innova, so this disappointed me.
Yeah, I have had some with bad flashing in the past, but for the most part I have never really had much of a problem with it!
I got a mind bender from your store the other day and I'm super excited to go out and throw it today. I bag a lot of innova, including a mako3, but mine is in champion plastic and at least with my arm speed, it fights out of an anhyzer fairly quick. It actually flies similarly to my DX Roc. Hoping the mind mender will be a little straighter.
Thank you! And yeah, my guess is that the Mind Bender will be straighter! I haven’t thrown a champ Mako3 in a long time, but usually the champ is more stable!
we measure wind in m/sec not km/h. Great videos mate!
Thank you! And yes, I have changed that on more recent videos! I am converting it to m/s now!
mind bender vs M4??
Yeah, that would be a good comparison too! I might have to pick up an M4 👀
⭐Mako3 is my #1 disc since I got the best ace I've seen in person with it. That Mindbender seems like my L64 opto fuse which is good but no reason to get one now I guess, I thought it would be a bit more stable than the mako3 similar to my L64 opto Compass but a little straighter.
Yeah its practically identical to the Mako3! I wonder if there will be more stable runs of the MD1 in the future
I own some Star Mako3s and I don't have flashing on mine.
Likewise, mine was smooth as silk right out of the box. Loved the feel of it right away.
Well that’s good to know! I was surprised by the flashing on this one… I am use to flashing but it never bothered me like the flashing on this one!
The biggest difference I've seen is that the Mind Bender has had more torque resistance. I was super pumped to compare these two molds so I did this same test as you, only I used more plastic types for the mako3: Champion, Star, Color Glow, and Halo Star. Maybe I've got some overstable Mind Benders and understable mako3s, but my testing results were almost opposite (I do know that the recent runs of Star Mako3's have had a decent bit of stability to them, and mine is an older run, so there was that to consider as well). For me, the Mind Bender would show a bit of turn during it's flight, and then slowly straighten back out as it fades. The mako3s thrown flat would slowly turn throughout it's flight, never fading out, except for the Halo Star mako3 which had the most identical flight t o the Mind Bender. I've got more Mind Benders coming in later this week that I will test as well and look forward to throwing them!
same here!
which one do u prefer? and if u could pick one for each what would it be?
Interesting! Yeah, I must have gotten a stable run of Mako3! They are both very nice discs either way! And I saw another comment saying the Orange Mind Benders were less stable as well, so that could be it!
@ Coopervia Have yo uh tested those new mindbenders yet? just curious what to your results were.
i just have to say the star mako3 feels terrible and is slightly more understable, but the champion plastic mako3 is dead straight with some face and feels awesome and is one of my favorite discs
Yeah, this star one surprised me! I really liked it!
I've definitely had flashing on discmania discs. It's just happens sometimes, to every manufacturer. It's just something QC missed. I've had kastaplast with flashing. Why wouldn't you just remove the flashing before throwing? Before I throw any disc I remove the flashing if there's any. Wash it to remove any residue from manufacturing. Then I ink my name and number. That way every time I throw a disc for the first time. It's as comfortable as possible.
I don't know. I've just never been someone to modify my discs like that! I have just thrown them, then between holes or something I will scrape at it with my nail... But I have never really gone too much out of my way to sand it off or rub it off on the teepad or anything... I think just because I don't want to sand the disc itself and make it flippy? I don't know! I have just never done it!
You should get yourself an Alfa Discs Apollo and compare the three. It even has your name on it. I got it as a mystery disc from Infinite and I'm digging it, haven't thrown a mako 3 or a roc in weeks and that's very odd.
Yeah, I haven’t had a chance to try that out yet!
I am an old roc thrower. Mako3 straight ahead ace.
All companies make the same stuff people they have to or it wouldn't get approved by the pdga
A power player's understable disc vs a finesse player's understable disc 🤔
I have the md1 the md3 in c line and a glow sparkle mako3. And the mako3 beats them both. I may go three not only flies further it holds a truer line. I've parked 300 ft holes with my mako the MD line seems to be about a 210-250 mid. The md3 seems to be a bit more stable than the md1 but not much my mako3 is slightly understable with a nice finish at the end if I had to give it last two members would be - 1,1. I use my md3 much more than the md1, for me the MD one is much too understable and cannot take the same amount of power as the mako3. For reference I have around the 420 foot backhand. And no flashing issue with the 2023 sparkle glow plastic That I've seen in fact I rather smooth lip and finish
Champion mako3 is better than star I think.
I haven’t tried a Champ one in a LONG time! But this star was impressed me!
There is a reason Simon throws the purple mind bender. In my field work testing I found that the purples handle the best torque. Orange and reds seem to be the most understable of the bunch.
That would make a lot of sense! I have only thrown the orange one!
Also both very similar to an M4
Yeah! I will have to try out one of those… it’s been a while since I have thrown one!
Buying a disc with 0 fade I would expect to get a disc that has 0 fade...A disc that just stays straight or falls out of the sky when it reaches the end of its flight. Saying the Mako3 fades out at the end would tell me that it is a more overstable run since technically its flight numbers are 0 fade. I would say that your Mako 3 in this video is more comparable to the MD3 based on flight or the older MD1 maybe MD2...So I believe both these discs in the video could really have a spot in your bag
I would really NEVER throw the Mind Bender in the wind simply because it is a disc that has 0 fade and I know it won't hold up. Reading some comments I think the biggest factor is the difference in runs...take the mystery box MD1 for example....completely different disc, way more overstable than the mind bender. It all comes down to throwing these molds for yourself and finding out which ones fly the best for you, it is hard to make a decision on a disc just by watching someone else throw it.
Nonetheless great vid! You always have some great thoughts and good comparisons that at least give a thrower a starting point of what to expect in a disc! I picked up 2 of these on release because I knew they would be an amazing turn over mid range! They have yet to disappoint me :D
Yeah the Mind Benders are solid! And I wouldn’t say this Mako3 is closer to an MD3, the MD3’s are pretty stable! Like they won’t turn at all whatsoever and will give a decent fade at the end! The only 2 discs I have ever thrown that just drops out of the sky with 0 fade are the Nova and the Berg! Most of the other ones I have thrown always have a touch of turn and touch of fade… They are great discs either way!
I slightly disagree. Not only is it good for a beginner to have a more reliable disc to start with…availability of the Mako3 is far greater than a Simon Mind Bender. Great review though.
Very true! availability it huge! You can find a Mako3 for cheap just about everywhere... Hopefully they start making stock versions of the MD1 that is more available, because that would be a solid option too!
I've thrown a Mako3 before and LOVED the flight. The slight little flip up, super workable. But mine had terrible flashing on it as well, super sharp rim and it felt like it was cutting my hand on every throw. Had to stop using it, just hated the feel in my hand. Hoping the Mind Bender will fix that!
Just use a little sandpaper
Yeah, it doesn't bother me a ton! I just play with it and it will eventually work itself off!
champion mako seems deeper then star mako
That would make sense! It’s weird how the plastic feels deeper… that was the same for me with Champ and Star Roc3’s!
You are way too interested what is happening around you, we are not seeing anything about it so it doesnt matter to us just relax and focus to your thing ;).
Mako3 has that flashing stability, but I also wouldn't be surprised if the Star plastic has more stability than that gummy plastic of the Mind Bender.
When I bought a Star Mako3 as part of a set for my brother last Christmas, I had to sand off the flashing on the bottom; it was pretty sharp.
Also true! Their champ might fly different, idk!
In my experience, flat mako3s are more neutral than the domey ones. The Kona Mako3s were very domey and flew like 5,5,0,1. Flat top star mako3s are money and fly true to the numbers. The mind bender seems to be closer to the flat tops but with slightly more turn. Maybe somewhere around 5,5,-.5,0. All of that said, Simon deserves to have these discs fly off the shelf.
Yeah the Mind Benders are solid! But this is the first Mako3 that I have had and I REALLY like it! it's so good!
Focus…lol
I was just focused on not getting domed by a stray drive 😂
adhd? ;)
Mako3 is great. But like all innova discs they are mass produced garbage. And wildly inconsistent.
Idk, I usually find their mids and putters to be more consistent! But you find can inconsistencies everywhere so 🤷🏻♂️
Event with just the proto Athena’s I had 3 different Athena’s fly differently! And that’s just one large run! Not even mass produced yet! So definitely something every company has… Innova‘s just the one that gets bashed for it more because they are so big!
It's not