Explaining Fate: A Timeline That Hates Direct Sequels | A Line Through Time
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- Опубліковано 10 лип 2023
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#Fate #Tsukihime #Nasuverse - Ігри
Hey there! I’m a Fate super fan and I have three things to say regarding this video.
1. I have a great amount of respect for you since it takes quite a bit of dedication to wrap one’s head around the timeline of an over 20 year old franchise that changes continuity with almost every entry, let alone to condense it in less then 15 minutes. Well done.
2. Darnic Prestone Yggdmillennia’s name is somehow even dumber if you know Romanian. His first name is an adjective and, if translated, his full name becomes Generous Prestone Yggdmillenia.
3. You missed Decoration Disorder Disconnection (also known as DDD). A mystery novel with only two volumes that doesn’t have any direct connections to anything and which Nasu hasn’t bothered updating in actual years.
:41 Which anime are these scenes from?? I have watched entire fate stay night but these scenes are new, please tell me if someone know..
Actually i have a question regarding Fate apocrypha .
How was lord el melloi II present in apocrypha even if there was no 4th holy grail war as he had to become a master for iskandar and so on. Pls explain
@@Bruhhh847
Even though there was no 4th HGW in Fate/Apocrypha, there were a number of Subcategory Holy Grail Wars that happened after Darnic Yggdmillenia revealed the mechanics of the Holy Grail to the world.
According to a side book, the Apocrypha version of Waver participated in one of these Subcategory Wars, summoned Iskandar, faced off against Kayneth and eventually became Lord El-Melloi II, much like in the Fate/Zero timeline.
I hope this answers your question!
-The Fate Super Fan
@@themememaster9582 Thanks super fan . This really helps clearing my doubt
Kinda funny that this is released like two weeks before the offical timeline would be revealed in the upcoming Type Moon Ace. Curious to see how accurate this video would be to it.
Wait, what?
@@The4thSnake Type Moon Ace Vol 15 has a section where Sanda(Case Files writer) would be talking about the chronology and correlations between all of Type Moon's works. Though whether it would be in depth will remain to be seen as it's pages is counted along with the Lost Einherjar short story that comes with the magazine which totals to 52 pages. So it's either very in depth or bare bones.
@@The4thSnakeI really want to see your face right now LMAO
@@The4thSnakeyou poor unassuming simple soul of pure heart.
@@The4thSnake If you're wrong you owe me $20
Clicks Snake's Fate video, get ad for Fate mobile game 😅
Same here!
Same here too Ironically
Loool
Same
Same, the synergy is strong since I haven't had a Fate ad in a while.
Yeah, there's a reason "That's hell you're walking into" is such a commom meme amongst Fate fans, and why it's more often than nor directed at newcomers.
Fans of Doom, Supernatural, Spawn, And Ghost Rider: "That's cute".
Oh yeah, Superfan time.
1. The whole thing about Zero being an alternate timeline is there PURELY to explain away the fact that Urobuchi didn't really consult with Nasu on the story, they're mostly minor things overall, such as Saber's fight with Gil being INSIDE the Fuyuki Fire in Stay Night as opposed to leading to it in Zero, but those are all minor retcons.
Unfortunately, the only one that ISN'T minor is ARTORIA HERSELF. Her attitude and how she treats her kingship and ideals are SO vastly different from Stay Night that she's effectively a different character altogether. There are alot more in depth explanations (on Reddit, of all things) but the end point is that Artoria in Zero is effectively Saber Lily from Grand Order rather than the one in Stay Night, and that's too major of a retcon just so Urobuchi could have his classic "naive girl with ideals getting broken" trope that he tends to write in his works.
2. Hollow Ataraxia is weird af, because it technically takes place after ALL 3 routes. Essentially, what happened is that Tohsaka Rin, after becoming Zelretch's student, kind of BROKE THE TIMELINE. This resulted in all 3 routes (and even the scrapped Illya route) to converge and collapse in on each other. How did that get resolved/stabilized? *SHRUG*
3. The worst part about Last Encore? It was actually going to cover the timeline that leads into Extella, presumably explaining wtf is going on with the weirdness between Extella and Link. That idea got scrapped because it was leaked apparently, so Last Encore was effectively written out of spite.
And finally-
4. The relationship between Fate and Tsukihime is simply the result of Nasu retconning things after the fact, as for a long time, they were SUPPOSED to take place in the same "general" timeline (Tsukihime taking place a few days before Stay Night for example) but Nasu at one point decided to separate them, Kara no Kyoukai being the disconnected one originally (because the idea that there are 2 japanese people that have mystic eyes of death perception and are both named Shiki is nigh IMPOSSIBLE.) As a result, Fate was technically just slid over from Tsukihime's general timeline to Kara no Kyoukai and we're told to do our best to forget about any prior connection they had, such as Arcuied in Extra. Strange Fake has elements of both because it was conceptualized and started BEFORE the split. Zelretch himself was SUPPOSED to be the same across all adaptations because he mastered the true magic of reality jumping, which caused him to combine with all of his alternate selves.
Funnily enough, Witch on the Holy Night is not only the simpliest to understand (it's set far back enough in the timeline that it seemingly happens no matter what Type Moon content you're currently in so long as it's set in modern day) it's ironically also the best starting point for the Nasuverse, which makes it appropriate that it's the first officially translated visual novel.
About Hollow Ataraxia, it's even more expansive, sice it is combining ALL possible outcomes of the 5th Holy Grail War into one. This is also the reason why the certain character from Fate/Stay Night is absent there - basically, this character not surviving the events of the 5th HGW is the multiversal constant.
There is also more to that, but it's kinda hard to talk about specific things in the Hollow Ataraxia main storyline without making spoilers.
I think a majority of the Fate divergences comes from the fact Nasu dislikes inconsistencies within the same timeline (despite the fact he contradicts the lore he set up constantly). For example, the character of Saber Artoria in Fate/Zero is presented in manner that butchers who she was in the original Stay Night visual novel, hence why it's said to be a similar, but not quite accurate version of the fourth holy grail war.
That was more gen Gen Urobuchi fault a better example is how mystic eyes appear in both tsukihime and kara no kyoukai
That character butchering doesn't change time of events if Artoria was in character and agreed with Kiritsugu everything would have played out the same her heart breaking with Lancelot reveal and Gil confession
See the time of events are the same 😂
Don't quote me on this, but I am pretty sure Nasu said he wanted to create a Multiverse like the ones Marvel and DC have, so he decided that everything would be happening in a different timeline.
@@TheSouthparkchecker it is wierd because originally fsn holy grail war was to start a few day after tsukihime hell sakura mentioned akiha touno by name in hollow ataraxia
@@angel7661 Didn't they already exist in different timelines then? Or did Nasu say that Fate's timeline lacks Dead Apostles afterwards?
Vampires, AKA Dead Apostles, do exist Fate worlds, but they're significantly less prominent than in Tsukihme worlds. Basically Vampires are the complete opposite of Servants, they deny human history rather than protect it, so in a timeline where one is prominent the other has to be overshadowed. For a few examples, Jester in F/SF is a Dead Apostle, and Kiritsugo's friend got turned into one by trying the experiential drug created by Kiritsugu's dad, as well the guy he and Nathalia later on hunted on a plane that led to the latter's death. Servants also exist in Tsukihme worlds as hinted by dialogue in Melty Blood Type Lumina, but they're such a rare occurrence they aren't even known as Servants and only by their official thaumaturgical name which is "Ghost Liner"
I think the reason a lot of people is that they get bogged down in useless complexities that don't end up mattering when actually engaging with the works. Like for example the "Fate Zero is an alternate timeline" thing doesn't matter, similarly while the Fate Extra Timeline is a mess, in reality it can just be described as a game, it's alternate version and it's two sequels. The technicalities of the timeline becoming apparent when playing the games. It's like the "Red Saber and Saber of Red" meme, it doesn't actually matter.
Great video by the way. The only real small "Mistake" i noticed is that Witch on the Holy Night also happens before Kara no Kyoukai and most likely Stay Night
Zero and FSn inconsistencies are a big deal when a major character is changed so much.
@@ssjokg4952 I think you misunderstood what I meant. I mean that when someone presents to a newcomer Fate/Zero they present it as the prequel to Stay Night, not as "an alternate universe retelling of events similar to those of the 4th holy grail war that was mentioned in Fate/Stay Night".
@@ssjokg4952 Who cares tho. Like don't worry about it dude. Don't bother with things that don't matter in the end
@@yourdad5799 Saber being a completely different person is a big deal.
@@ssjokg4952 Yea she just developed more in the time between Zero and stay night, nothing wrong with that. Her staying always the same is stupid don't you think? And all that ends up not mattering too so like what are you mad about? The fact that she's acting a tiny bit differenty in Zero doesn't really matter to stay night anyway, she can still have her character arc in the fate route(I specify the fate route because I haven't played UBW oe Heaven's feel yet, therefore can't talk about her character there) even when considering how Zero portrayed her.
"Notes" is a story Nasu wrote before the release of Tsukihime, and way before Fate/Stay Night. It takes place in a distant future where Earth is dead, humanity is barely hanging on, and entities called "Ultimate Ones" from other planets are trying to invade Earth to finish mankind. Many of the terms and aspects of Notes are present in other Nasuverse works such as Ultimate Ones and Black Barrel, but saying that any of the other stories lead to that specifically is hard to tell. Sort of a future that can happen.
Fun Fact: "The Land of Steel" was Nasu's tabletop RPG setting!
brazilian spider intensifies
The fate timeline is a clusterfuck, however is not really that important. It's cute that most works are conected but at the end of the day most works are self contained.
The thing with the Nasuverse is that the desire to neatly slot everything into a grand timeline kind of defeats the point. It's not particularly a series about meticulously building off of pre-established continuity and story events, but rather more like expanding off of the underlying setting and world systems, while having the freedom to explore completely new storylines without being bound by the restraints of everything having to perfectly line up. The main reason why there are so many "timelines" is simply due to the amount of "possibilities" that the writers want to explore. Another notable factor of course is that it's not all just Nasu's universe anymore, but rather the collaborative efforts of countless talented writers who want to tell their own stories within the setting and add their own spins on it, and Nasu isn't interested in stifling their creative freedom by trying to keep things within a consistent boundary. In the case of Fate/Zero for instance, it's commonly believed that Nasu gave the explanation of "it's in a separate timeline" after the fact, as a justification for its minor inconsistencies to Stay/Night. But rather, that's simply how it had been envisioned from the very beginning. It's not that he's invalidating the emotional weight of the story's overall ideas and thematic execution in relation to its predecessor, but rather he's respecting the integrity of his fellow writer by allowing him the freedom to take creative liberties. I think the main reason that people view the series as being so convoluted and difficult to approach is largely due to the obsession over figuring out how all the different entries "connect" to one another, when the long and short of it is that they mostly don't-at least not in the ways that would traditionally come to mind. For a "sequel" to exist within the Nasuverse doesn't inherently entail that something strictly follows it in terms of chronology, but rather that it's inheriting and expanding upon various "ideas" from it, while ultimately achieving a result that's basically its own thing in the process. In other words, the connectivity is something that's often more external than internal, and more related to the underlying meta that pins everything together. To conclude this rather rambly mess of a comment, I don't believe that it cheapens the original stories to "skirt around" their continuity, because the whole point of taking that approach is for them to be able to embrace preceding ideas with the utmost freedom, allowing them to explore myriad additional possibilities that, when taken as a whole, add new dimensions and color to the prismatic spectrum of the core underlying "ideas," while still preserving and developing upon their emotional core and original facets of intrigue.
I think it's more you need to know everything to get the references or understand the deeper terminology, or the characters. Like, imagine seeing Archer EMIYA, Artoria, or Gilgamesh in later entries without understanding their characters from stay night.
It's pretty much a Action movie popcorn franchise so it fits
Very good and accurate explanations! I only get to be a nitpicky nerd about 1 major thing that I haven't seen anyone else touch on in the comments!
So basically, the difference between Tsukihime and the Fate Universe comes down to the difference in the "strength of Human History" in the two. In Fate, Human History is strong and so Heroic Spirits can be summoned as Servants. This has helped in the past to keep the Vampires in check, keeping their numbers and relative strength low.
Meanwhile in Tsukihime, Human History is weak, and as such while Heroic Spirits do exist, no one has found a way to summon them forth as Servants, and as such Vampires have roamed free and are really only held in check by the Church.
So yes, Vampires and Heroic Spirits exist in both Verse's, but their relative strength compared to the other vastly differs depending on the world you're talking about.
Of course, it's all a bit more in depth than that, but I wanted to explain it in as simple way as I could since I know I get WAY too into this for my own good!
And yeah basically the difference comes down to "in Tsukihime, Zelretch became a Vampire. In Fate he did not" so you were pretty spot on!
So doesn't that mean there are two Zelretchs?
@@Ergeniz Only as much as it means there are 2 of any characters in the Nasuverse (actually that's a bad example because there *are* examples of 2 of the same character existing in the same timeline haha)
But basically no. It just means that of you were to boil the Nasuverse down into a single split off point, the easiest would be when Zelretch fought Type Moon. In the Fate version of events he didn't become a Vampire, while in the Tsukihime version he did. They're parallel worlds, and just different versions of the same character
Edmond Dantes in FGO timeline killed Roa early too, making another point of difference.
It's also explainable in another extremely similar way like "Which is stronger : Gaia (Will of Planet) or Alaya(Will of Humanity)", something like that right ?
@@TheKazuma410P yeah pretty much!
Nasu is like one of the only few writers that exist with a great disdain for a "True continuity" for the series unlike, lets say, DC or Marvel. The closest mainline thing is FSN > FHA or Apoc > Lost Einherjar but it keeps vague what happened in the past and is probably just its own timeline in its own right. The idea that there is only one story that matters is something he clearly doesn't want, and its clear with a lot of interviews with writers who work with him.
Many telll of Nasu's insistence on not being bogged down by previous installments in the series, but rather making your own within the greater universe. A new line in the story which furthers the universe while making its own narratives, and is treated as importantly as any other series. He sees the universe as that, a universe, which constantly expands radially. There isn't one true route, but multiple that is a result of ones choices in life, or the choices life puts onto you. Even in FGO, where you try to fight for your timeline you have to fight off against other timelines that try to exist and experience, especially during Part 2. You aren't depicted in story as a "hero saving the world from destruction" but "a survivor fighting for his right to live" against the other pruned timelines or as we know em, Lostbelts
Edit: Forgot to add Lost Einherjar since that is a true sequel to Apocrypha in timeline since it happened I believe a few years after Apoc.
Just to clarify, it isn't that the fate worlds doesn't have vampire, but it is the 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors that was missing. The whole reason being in fate worlds the Humanity Foundation is strong, summoning heroic spirits as servants is possible, and the vampires/dead apostles got weak, and so some individuals never got too powerful to be called The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors (they still exists, is just that they never become "Ancestors", they are either just dead apostle or never become one). On the other hand, in Tsukihime world, summoning servants is impossible , Zelretch accidently got bite after the battle with Crimson Moon (in the old canon it was Crimson Moon himself, the new canon was The Third Apostle at the time). On the side note, Fate Strange Fake is said to be the mix of both worlds, while Fate Grand Order, weirdly enough, is counted as neither, as Nasu stated in one of his journal entry.
Fate Extra might be one of the most convoluted timelines I've ever seen.
Its gets easier when you just go "Spin-off, spin-off, spin-off" instead of trying to connect it kek
It honestly isn't. The games aren't trying to connect themselves. It's like trying to confuse Apocrypha with Zero or HA.
The main story is much more confusing, considering how many branches it has.
Best way to enjoy it is to not think about it too much since most of the stories are standalone projects and there are a lot of different writers involved with their own takes and on the series when it comes to the spinoffs
Now as a person that got into Melty Blood because I really like Blazblue and Guilty Gear and was looking for another anime fighter to get my hands on back in my high school days, I will say it was one hell of a rabbit hole when I discovered it was a spin off to a visual novel and it was connected to the Fate series (kind of) which I only knew at the time because I had a friend that was really into it a the time. It only got more deeper and convoluted from there but I still stuck around because of the characters and ideas.
Same.
I knew of fate but i got really into it because of tsukihime (thanks to melty blood)
I honestly prefer tsukihime over fate personally because i like the characters more (AND WISH IT HAD A NEW ANIME ALREADY)
I mean hey, you've got experience with Blazblue right ?
@@TheKazuma410P that’s exactly what I was thinking. XD I was going to make a joke in the comment above saying “and people said Blazblue was complicated” but I guess I just end up not doing it for whatever reason.
@@MetaKnuxXbeatseh at lest Nasu-verse. When you know. Most stories are self contained. Then suddenly if all make sense.
BB have problems since. Some terms are localised badly. Structure as fighting game, occasionally leads to narrative problems. Oh also, its timetravel plot.
But I still love BlazBlue for that
As a pretty big Type-Moon fan, I congratulate you. This video is succinct and shows a genuine understanding of the franchise and showcases all the differences in timelines without overcomplicating things, which is a very difficult task to do.There are a few more tweaks I'd note, namely the absense of the TM work Mahou Tsukai no Hako which takes place in the classic Tsukihime timeline, and Mahoyo takes place before Kara no Kyoukai as well, both Mahoyo and KnK are basically vague timelines, but the main thing is that Tsukihime and Fate can't coexist in modern day. I think you should definitely check out the other TM works like Notes, Tsuki no Sango, Mahoyo, Mahohako, and Tsukihime to get all these minor details ironed out. But those things aside, hold your head high, you did a damn good job here! As a Type-Moon fan, I applaud you!
How couldn't Tsuki and Fate coexist in modern day when TsukiRe was updated to BE in modern day?
@@AngraMainiiu The difference is the dominant species. Fate is part of the human order or pan-human history, which has humans at the forefront allowing for the summoning of servants. Other worlds not part of this such as Tsukihime or Notes have other beings become the most dominant species, creating things like DAAs
@@EbullientSMP We are on two entirely different pages...
I was asking what you meant by "modern day" when that is a detail that Nasu cares about, especially with Witch on the Holy Night being specifically set in the late 80's.
TsukiRe was updated to be in 2010's to modernize the story as a whole, yet the implications things like Aoko's age for example is unaddressed...
Remember, you can't have continuity errors if each work is it's own continuity
The only changes I'd make are mostly on the Grand Order timeline and how it effects other timelines.
1. Grand Order and Grand Order Arcade are separate timelines.
2. Technically, the beginning and ending of Grand Orders original chapter, and thus everything following the ending, are in different timelines because the world wasn't destroyed.
3. Grand Order basically starts in the 3rd Grail war, not the 5th. Instead of Angra Mainu being summoned the Einsberns get Solomon and actually win the war.
This snowballs changes into tge other wars.
4. Extra technically has a minor sequel in an event held by the Sakura AI.
5. Grand Order events also introduce 2 seperate additional timelines, one being so different Servants are the regular population rather than being summoned. The other might just be a reference to notes or another Unfinished Natsu work.
6. The Under Snow magical girl movie was technically a prequel to the alternate timeline that one of the protagonist comes from.
THE EINSBERN SUMMONING SOLOMON? It was Marisbury not the einzbern that Summoned solomon. The whole FGO plot and the solomon stuff happens because of Marisbury Animusphere. Also it still only stablished one holy grail war thats a fact that has been repeated and is crucial to the main plot.
So happy Tsukihime is getting an english release of the remake finally
Tsukihime bros
We keep winning
@@Jv-MAX-CRINSOM Imagine right after the release they announce the other routes.
@@TheKazuma410P I would die of hype
Only gripe I have with video. Its called “Fate”. When you talk about both Nasuverse in general.
This is the 3rd most convoluted time line I've ever seen right up there with KH and the the nier timeline eruption fang did
so, one major difference between the Tsukihime and Fate timelines is not just Zelretch but also Roa who, in the Fate timeline, was killed by Edmond Dantes
a few things you forgot are the Tiger Colloseum, Capsule Servant and Unlimited Codes games, though i don't think they're to be taken too serioulsy (they absolutely are, jokes are the deepest lore in this universe) as well as forgetting that canonically Illya and Magical Girl Nanoha met, meaning all of Magical Girl Nanoha is technically canon to the Nasuverse as well as not really going too indepth on the whole Miyuverse situation, the Illyaverse timeline and Miyuverse timeline run parallel in the same story and one really important point is that Gaia intervenes in the events of the story, something we will yet have to see how it will impact the timelines
Funny timing, I just started rereading the visual novel.
For as stupidly complicated as this series gets, I'll always have a soft spot for it. Thanks for covering it! Nice to see you branch out from MK kontent too
Tsukihime Remake got announced for an English localization at Anime Expo
Sick.
@@The4thSnakewho you gonna Rizz first, White woman or Curry gobbler?
The timeline in Miyu world is different because Pandora never opened the Pithos, unlike our own version, they don't even know the term Pandora's Box.
Also in collaboration events in FGO we could say that there are different singularities also since the player changes some events (zero accel for example).
And even some characters from Tsukihime appear in different roles in FGO like Sion and Fabro and other types of different timelines inside FGO like lostbelts.
Edit: there is also FSN 2006 manga that differs from the games, mixing parts of two routes and bits of HF into a new version of the story.
This was a nice breakdown of the overall fate timelines. I kind of want to see a more focused breakdown of the Grand Order Timeline specifically, as between all the singularities, events, and Interludes it can be a bit difficult trying to keep track of when everything takes place. What part of the story was each servant canonically summoned to Chaldea? How long did it take Ritsuka to solve each singularity, and how much downtime did they have? These are the questions that make me want to re-read the story, but then I remember that it is probably longer than a novel at this stage.
In my opinion its better if you don't think of it as a timeline, but rather a multiverse. Where every entry is its own universe telling its own story, and is canon.
Just a random thing that muddies the waters with Arcueid in FGO, A1 and 2 of her is her Tsukhime remake self, while her third Ascension is the Fate timeline version of herself I believe.
Combining two separate characters into one being with no explanation makes perfect sense.
she is not "the one from the fate timeline" she is the base of archetype earth. Each ascension is a different stage of her. The future, present and past.
1st ascension is her future the end goal as a vessel of the crimson moon, the 2nd ascension is the present the state she chooses to be that defines her as a person through experiences in life and the 3rd ascension is the past, the untainted pure form, the one that didnt meet the snake nor the killer.
in the valentine scenes they talk to each other and literall call out themselves with those terms.
Nasuverse super fan here 😂 you called me out. A few clarifications.
There is no indication that the timeline archer came from is a timeline that did not have him in it. Infact since the throne is beyond space and time it would make more sense for archer to have existed even in his own timeline as a future possibility in the same way he does in FSN. After all nasuverse is not a loop of any kind but a series of alternate lines all on a concurrent track that branch off dependint on the decisions made.
Also one more slight correction in that tsuki no sango is explicitly a tsuki world of some time. We dont know details though.
Im glad you properly put mahoyo in tsuki world likes and knk in fate world lines though. A lot of people dont get that part down.
Isn't Tsuki no Sango where Shiki and Arcueid never met?
Yes
@@AngraMainiiuyee but details beyond that are weird
It wouldn't make sense for him to be summoned
You can't summon a heroic spirit thats not recorded in the throne
Especially in a HGW ( artoria's case is different because she's not a heroic spirit yet in FSN )
No he's right
Rin in Emiya's timeline summoned a different archer whose identity is unknown
The whole possible future thing is because stay night shirou has a slight chance to end up like emiya did
Lore pieces about TOH and other characters in the series are good examples of what i said
I mean... I really love the fact that we got the all of "What if" we can bargain for, but i hate the fact that we rarely get the ending of a story.
Couple corrections:
- Notes is the first thing Nasu wrote and has concepts and ideas that are presented later in the Nasuverse, but the story itself is standalone and doesn't take place anywhere in that world. Same with Tsuki no Sango, and Canaan (which is just a different thing entirely).
- The outcome of Zelretch's fight with Type Moon (the father of all Vampires) decides what world we will end up in. If he gets bitten he becomes a vampire and humanity does not get powerful enough to summon beings like servants for example. That gets us into Tsukihime worlds where creatures such as vampires and dead apostles wander around more aimlessly and have much more power in general. 27 DDA is also a thing in these worlds. However, if Zelretch does not get bitten (Fate and KNK worlds), humanity becomes more powerful and as a result dead apostles are much less in charge, but they do still exist. Servants can be summoned. Events of Tsukihime can't happen anymore because Roa is dead in these worlds, but Arcueid is still alive. Strange Fake combines these two worlds and is the only exception.
- Fate/Zero IS in a separate timeline, because of many reasons, but for simplicity, it could be just because of how Urobuchi wrote Saber. She is just a different character in F/Z than in Stay Night, Garden of Avalon or anything else.
- Hollow Ataraxia has had a fan translation for a long time now (and it's arguably better than any other TM fan translation out there). SPOILERS FOR HOLLOW ATARAXIA: It's not a sequel, it basically happens at the same time as the events of Stay Night happen and follows Bazzett and Angra Mainyu inside of a dream.
- Silly things like Carnival Phantasm, for example, don't matter in the overall scale, so I don't see the point of putting them anywhere on the timeline. Only Emiya Cooking makes sense because it borrows events from Hollow Ataraxia and probably happens there too.
- Tsukihime Remake got an announcement of an official Engish translation recently. So Mahoyo is not the only one to get it anymore.
At the end of the video, you said that this timeline is supposed to help new people get into Fate, I don't agree with that. The thing about Nasuverse as a whole is that it is not complicated at all, people just got gaslighted by a joke spread by the community couple of years ago. It's our mistake and the community regrets that. A lot of people are just getting annoyed because it's hard to get new people into the fandom just because of that one misconception. And timelines like this don't help, they just spill more milk. Instead of worrying about continuity, people should just get onto watching/reading what they want, and that's it. For the best experience just start with Stay Night, KNK, Mahoyo or Tsukihime and do whatever after that. It really does not matter where the events are played out in the timeline and it's actually also kinda a spoiler if you know that beforehand. Finding out where the deviation is in these works is something to be found out while experiencing set works. They are written in a way that you don't have to know where they are placed in the universe before starting them... you're gonna find that out sooner or later while reading/watching them.
I am a fate fan and all of this was going over my head. i honestly generally just take things as fate alternate universes except where they seem to directly coincide like zero with blade works. otherwise each seems to be its own universe and that's just the easiest way to get into it.
Technically, the Mahoyo visual novel isn't the prequel to the original Tsukihime. Various things make it impossible to take place in the same timeline. If we want to be super anal, the Mahoyo visual novel is only the prequel to the Tsukihime remake and the original Mahoyo draft that went unpublished is the prequel to the original Tsukihime. Although elements of Mahoyo must be canon to Fate timelines as Touko and Aoko still exist, just as Waver still somehow exists in Clock Tower 2015 even though Grail Wars are impossible. Nasu's short story, The Room of April Witch, is mentioned in Strange Fake, so that's canon to the general Nasuverse. Fate/Grand Carnival and Fujimaru Ritsuka Doesn't Get It are among various FGO comedic parodies.
I think Prillya is more of a Multiverse thing than Alternate Timeline thing
If Marvel can have the universe that Peter Parker lived in 1930s, Then Typemoon sure can made a universe that Illya born late
Also one thing to note, Ordeal Call isn't The 4th arc of FGO, It's still categorized as part of "Cosmos in The Lostbelt" so it's more like Arc 2.2 more than Arc 2.5 or 3
Snake: (releases a Fate timeline video)
Me whose 95% exposure to Fate is SXR123's shitposts: Yes, yes, that is correct. Perfectly crystal clear to us all. I haven't completely lost you after the first 2 minutes of the video.
I found your channel literally last week because i got into a mortal kombat mood again and now you are doing a video on my comfort franchise. I was not expecting this crossover but im super happy about it!
My brain got fried in the entire duration of this video
A few things that are apparent from the lore within the Fate/Extra series is that the divergence happened about 4.6 billion years ago as the Moon Cell is supposedly nkt in the Moon of the World of Fate Stay Night. Also, Velber 2 attacked the Moon Cell before projecting a copy of itself onto the planet where as in literally all others has Velber 2 directly attack the planet. The reason 1970s is typically used is because due to being on the Moon the Moon Cell doesn't influence history at all allowing history to almost happen one for one with a standard Fate World until the 70s.
It's always pretty nice seeing a pine through time video.
"I have never met that man" is supposed to be in the metaphorical sense, as it's a completely different form of Archimedes that *didn't* get corrupted.
They don't call Astolfo a trap because he makes people gay
They call him a trap because he has introduced people into fate and those said people have lost their minds trying to understand fate
Melty Blood, the fighting game spin-off series played in bathroom sinks.
Lmfoooo the branches look like a damn Lostbelt World Tree
The Fate franchise make the MARVEL and DC Universe looks simple and easy to understand
And it all stems from the Type moons obession with making spin offs and then making sequels and prequels for said spin offs
That's nowhere near true. There is 60 years of marvel and DC to ruin their community
i think i got a good handle on fate but dc rebirth still confuses me. marvel isn't that bad since it's all one timeline technically but that does mean that there are decades of plot that will often get ignored or reinterpreted by new writers
Great job,compressing the time line.
One more thing to mention is that Aoko, protagonist of Witch on Holy Night and her sister Touko frequently reappear in other Nasuverse works. Aoko mentors Tohno Shiki from Tsukihime and Touko is a prominent character in KnK, also making an appearance in Case Files and a brief cameo in Heaven's Feel
Aside from that and a few minor details, I'd say this about sums it up nicely! You did a really good job with this and it really shows you went in deep to try to make sense of it all.
I see, so Type-Moon timeline is a giant and Gaia is a poor gardener pruning the tree who had to clone themselves creating Alaya so that they could keep the constantly growing tree from collapsing under its own weight
Nice video. I even found out about some series i hadn't heard before. I'm currently trying to get into Extraverse now.
Great video, I hope you can do more Fate stuff!
11:37 Good branching tree
Wtf so that's where magical girl comes from.... Omg my trails series just got mindfooked
Wow...as someone who has only seen these various characters from memes or clips or random images online, I was not aware that they all belonged to the same franchise. I thought Melty Blood was a random fighting game franchise and the magical girl thing also being its own thing and now I know its all connected in a really convoluted way...
I doubt you'd have a good way of knowing this randomly but Tsukihime Remake has been confirmed for a English release next year.
As a Fare fan it is cool to see one of my favorite UA-camr doing some Fare stuff. Maybe you could give a shot at doing some Wasted Plotential videos about the Fate series. I’ll be interesting to see what you could come up with.
9:09
you got me wheezing
My favorite (and least favorite) thing about Fate is how it ties so much into Nasu’s other works, there are so many things that happen in Fate that you’ll only get context from if you played Tsukihime or Mahoyo, like certain concepts or mage craft, it expands the universe which is a good thing but at the exact same time, it becomes confusing to those who only play mainline Fate games, an example of this being (SPOILERS)
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The final antagonist of the Lostbelt saga being ORT, a being that hails from another game entirely.
not final antagonist though just for Lostbelt 7 and wasnt even at its peak form. It was severely weaker
Final antagonist is another one...
Technically ORT isn't from a game, it isn't even from another story.
ORT was originally mentioned and given physical in a fucking material book of all places. Which surprisingly enough is where A LOT of big names and major background players usually first appear in Nasuverse
@@thepronoob4039 yeah even waver originated first from Material books and then Urobuchi was left in charge of introducing him in Zero.
Oh my gosh. I was waiting for this one.
I believe the Mahoyo Visual Novel Is placed in the remake of Tsukihime due to the fact Alice's house is where the Tohno Mansion was originally located in the original version of Tsukihime
I'm glad you didn't call Prisma Illya, 'A Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha knock off'
11:31 "Simple" he says while zooming out to show Nasuverse timeline. True comedy.
Thank you kindly for the recommendation ^^
I would like to thank you for making this video I have a basic understanding of this anime and still get confused when trying to understand it so thank you once more
"I want to keep it simple - "
He actually said this... you sweet, sweet boy...
Man I came here for help understanding the time line not becoming even more confused
3:23 The adventure of Lord El-Melloi II is a spin off that happen after Fate Zero. so this part was connected wrong.
Also Zelretch also appear on Heaven's Feel movie. Reveal that he has exist since the first Holy Grail War.
The only real nitpick I have is that notes. and Tsuki No Sango are actually on two different timelines. While the world of Tsuki No Sango is a Land of Steel (a state where the planet is dying), it is not Overcount 1999.
Oh boy does my head hurt. I don't know how you did this without having your brain explode. Bravo. Like you said its shit like this that makes people afraid to jump in since it would confuse the fuck out of them.
I’m surprised you made a fate timeline video that’s shorter than Gigguks video and still made sense
That was the point of Garnt's video to be overly complicated because it was made for people who already know fate to the same level he does. Also it fits better into his comedic style
Dead Apostles exist in Fate verse, what doesn't exist there is the 27 Dead Apostle Ancestor cuz they're weaker than the Tsukihime version of themselves and some of them didn't turn into a Dead Apostle
🦦 my brain died trying to keep up.
I just realized!!! You forgot the Tiger Coliseum games.
One of those god dammed Fate superfans here. Overall amazing video, one of the more accurate videos I've seen about this topic, and the shortest amongst them too. Only few corrections in case someone cares:
1) not really a correction, but for Archer's original timeline it's pretty heavily implied that Archer's original timeline is the first timeline, Fate. I've seen a LOT of people online saying they are different timelines, which is why I'm saying this isn't really a correction, but if you watch Fate/Stay Night Last Episode, it's a direct continuation of the Fate route and seems to me to imply it's the cause of Shirou becoming Archer.
Also, if true, that means there's no timeline where Archer wasn't summoned, since it's specifically explained in UBW how someone can be summoned to before they became a servant, an explanation that seems pointless unless what I said is true. If there's something I'm missing though I'd be happy to hear what, because I can't for the life of me figure out why people keep saying Archer in from a 4th timeline.
2) Vampires exist in Fate, as they appear in Zero, though how they work seems to work differently from in Tsukihime (in Zero people turned into the zombie variant of vampires pretty quickly and everyone in town did, while in Tsukihime most people just die instead, and from those that do turn into zombies, most take a few days/weeks do have the transformation occur to them).
Also according to Tsukihime, people that try to become immortal can't do so, and instead turn into vampires, which makes Zelretch being a vampire in one and a dimension-crosser in the other not having to be seperate things, but cause and effect. Still, seeing as vampires word differently, that's not to say the versions are one and the same.
Tsukihime remake will get localized in 2024 I'm so fucking happy
Can't wait to watch this with my fate obsessed Gf, thanks Mr.Snake
A few mistakes or nitpicks I have with the timeline that I haven't seen anyone else point out:
It should be noted that nowhere is it stated that Tsuki no Sango and Notes takes place in the Fate/ side. Both takes place in their own timeline and undetermined side of the Nasuverse that are barely explored or explained because Nasu is a wild like that, so they should be completely seperate like Hana no Miyako.
Kara no Kyoukai was originally designed to take place within the same timeline as Tsukihime (OG) but due to reasons that can only be understood if you're a mushroom, it is now considered a seperate world line, thus personally I like to think that it takes place in the Tsukihime side of the Nasuverse but ultimately it doesn't really matter and could be both.
Mahou Tsukai no Yoru and Clock Tower 2015 are actually designed to be in the same timeline as the Tsukihime Remake, but it's easy to think otherwise when you consider the fact that the fucking remake is released over half a decade after the those two works were.
Fate/Strange Fake actually takes place on a timeline that's derived from Fate/School Life, somehow, so it should be moved to be under that instead of the composite route. Or move School Life to the composite route since it's implied that the events of the 5th Grail War in School Life is a composite thing too.
Fate/Koha-Ace also has a bunch of spin-offs, prequels and sequels that blurs the line between the Fate/ and Tsukihime worlds, which makes sense since it's a gag manga. Those include Koha-Ace (the original manga that predated Fate/Koha-Ace), Koha Ace+, Koha-Ace EX, Koha-Ace Collection, Koha-Ace EXP, Koha-Ace DX (all of the previous ones are sequels to Koha-Ace), Fate/GUDAGUDA Order (tie-in to Grand Order to celebrate it's release), GUDAGUDA Ace, GUDAGUDA Ace Re (the previous twos are tie-ins to the F/GO GUDAGUDA events) and GUDAGUDA Taikou Legend ZIPANG (which is another shot at more serious story telling by the Koha-Ace author ala Fate/Koha-Ace).
Fate/Kaleid unfortunately isn't immune to the curse of branching timelines due to it's own Carnival Phantasm-esqe spin-off, Prisma Phantasm, taking place all over the Illyaverse and the Miyuverse timelines.
Ok here's a big one, Carnival Phantasm takes place in both Fate/ and Tsukihime's sides! This is because of Zelretch and his bullshit making one of his most powerful magical tools into a cafe (Ahnenerbe) where timelines crossover with each other. Other media that are tied to Ahnenerbe are:
> Mahou Tsukai no Hako, a story about two highschool girls who works in Ahnenerbe called HIbiki and Chikagi, the series contains 5 Drama CDs and also a manga, the characters from Hako are also featured in Carnival Phantasm's HibiChika special. If there's a timeline for the series, I wouldn't know it since very little of it are translated, officially or not. However I do know that the first volume of the 5th Drama CD, Starlit Marmalade, takes place before everything else as the finale has Chikagi donning her signature twin tails for the first time. The manga for Starlit Marmalade is translated by fans as well as some of the other manga, HibiChika Time, but all of the Drama CDs remains untranslated.
> Take Moon, basically the manga where Carnival Phantasm originated from. It's a series of unconnected stories about the Fate/Stay Night and Tsukihime (OG) characters and their daily lives. The 1st Volume and 1 chapter of Volume 2 of Take Moon has been fan translated.
> All Around Type Moon, another crossover series that, unlike Carnival Phantasm and Take Moon, actually has a lot of character interaction between the series that it crossover (Fate/, Tsukihime and Kara no Kyoukai). It consists of a Drama CD and a short manga series. The entirety of the Drama CD is available on UA-cam but unfortuantely untranslated, thankfully, the entire manga series is translated into English.
There are also more slightly obscure works in the Nasuverse but I don't know nearly enough to talk about them much less place them on a timeline, those include Fate/Tiger Colosseum (a 3D fighter that takes place around the same time as Stay Night, with it's own Sequel in Tiger Colosseum UPPER), Capsule Servant (taking place "some time in the future", the Holy Grail War became basically a mascot toy game ala Beyblade or Bakugan) and Fate/mahjong night (where the Holy Grail War was a Mahjong game played by Heroic Spirits).
I'm a pretty big fan and this video is really good, but there are still some details and extra info left out (can't really blame you for that with this series though lol), still this is a really good video with some things I didn't know, like Lost Einherjar being a sequel to Apocrypha
Fate/Zero is a different timeline because of inconsistencies with Fate/Stay Night, the main one most people mention is Saber's character being kinda inconsistent with Stay Night
The Fuyuki Grail War in Fate/Grand Order happens with the same characters as F/SN, F/GO is about time traveling to fix the past getting changed, the singularity F war was with different servants summoned, but that gets fixed ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶a̶f̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶i̶r̶s̶t̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶p̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶F̶/̶S̶N̶ ̶r̶o̶u̶t̶e̶s̶, I forgot, actually in FGO the 2004 HGW is the first and only one (not counting the singularities), it's completely different from the F/SN HGWs
In Fate worlds humanity is too strong for Dead Apostles (vampires) to survive in larger numbers, they still exist as seen in Fate/Zero, but humanity can summon servants so a lot of them get killed (one of the villains of Tsukihime gets killed by the Count of Monte Christo). Since they are few in numbers the 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors (basically vampire royalty) don't exist in Fate worlds, some of it's members do, but the organization itself doesn't, this is why Fate/Strange Fake is weird since it directly mentions the 27DAA
Also Witch on the Holy Night isn't the only VN officially released in English as an official release of Tsukihime got announced like two weeks ago
And yeah there are still more works not mentioned like Decoration Disorder Disconnection which is an unfinished light novel series by Nasu that currently has only two volumes and a short story with the last update being released in around 2010, it also isn't related to Tsukihime or Fate
Still if someone new wants to enter the rabbit hole just send them to Fate Stay Night VN, Tsukihime VN or the anime adaptation of fate (UBW into HF into Zero is the best order IMO)
or just read the VNs and after just watch/read/play whatever peak your interest, most stories in the Nasuver are contained so having only the basics is already enough to enjoy to the fullest.
and if something doesn't make sense just follow the holy motto: "Don't worry about it"
This isn't a where to start guide
Nice!!
Could've maybe been a bit more clear where Grand Order splits off, given that you do point out the novel it happens in a bit later into the video, otherwise probably the cleanest take I've seen on the timeline thus far. I've been into Fate for half a decade now and haven't even covered half of the content that exists. Tho I guess also getting into SMT the moment P4G came out on Steam and I realized I already own the consoles (mostly 3DS, but also the PSVita I ended up buying to play P4G while they fixed up the steam release, which luckily did actually end up happening, so I have 100% achievements on steam using my NG+ data from the vita version for a final full playthrough) to play a bunch more of their games didn't help that :'3
As I explained to my friend...
"Screw everything else. Start with Zero, then watch Unlimited Blade Works, and finish with Heaven's Feel."
Thank you
Based Snake posting a video he knows won't get as many views as a "Lin Kuei trailer reaction 😱😱😱" while everyone else is capitalizing on Mortal Kombat news. Absolute Chad
Don't worry about it.
Great work, but Holy Night is canon to both Tsukihime and Garden of Sinners. The main protagonist is the mentor in Tsukihime & the antagonist is the mentor in Garden of Sinners.
Garden of Sinners is heavily implied to be on the Fate timeline, Shiki Ryougi is a summonable servant for the Extra & Grand Order timelines and is mutually exclusive with Shiki Tohno for holding the Mystic Eyes. Touko even made a cameo with her same appearance from KnK in Heaven's Feel.
@@AngraMainiiuMana Ryougi and Mikiya appear in the New Adventures of Lord El-Melloi. The question is how much of Mahoyo is canon to Fate timelines because Waver exists in Tsukihime timelines because of Clock Tower 2015, but he couldn’t have met Iskander because holy grail wars aren’t possible. It’s probably safe to assume most of Mahoyo is canon to all Nasuverse timelines as nothing is contradicted.
@@andrewli6606 Clock Tower 2015 is an interesting example of how timelines can diverge, it's explicitly stated to be in the Tsukihime world yet Lev's death steers it into the FGO timeline of all things...
It should also be noted that Nasu mistakenly identified the Barthomeloi family as those in charge of the Department of Individual Fundamentals rather than the Solonea family. So perhaps it wasn't the most well thought out piece of text Nasu wrote...
Let's try to learn.
That fresh out the plastic Snake.
"I thought I asked for the short version."
*"This is the short version."*
Whats with this obsession Type Moon has with making spin offs and then making sequels and prequels for said spin offs? This entire mess with the timeline literally exist ONLY because of this obsession
Because there are more stories to read, and as there will be more of those, TM fans will stay invested in these for more time.
It is a "mess" only because people are obsessed with creating unified timelines.
because it makes no sense and is more convoluted to have everything happen in one timeline obviously. Just look at Zero and FSN, the latter splits into three futures, and Zero doesn't even keep up with FSN because of Urubutcher.
Because Nasu wants other writers to tell whatever stories they want in his Multiverse.
"So what if there's continuity errors? That happened on another timeline, just go nuts with your story." -Nasu, basically
And with that, people could enjoy the series however they want. You don't like the jailbait series? That's fine. You wanna stick with Fate series and not touching Tsukihime? That's fine, too. You wanna know every minute details of the entire Multiverse? Sure, if your brain could handle that.
I see. NOW EXPLAIN THE MOON
The TM franchise is perfect imo
Still, the best parts about all of tthat are character's names.
We have three separate characters named Shiki and they all have multiple personality thing (two of the Shikis are kinda related).
We also have: Nero, Chaos and Nero Chaos
Those all above are completly separate and not related.
There is also Zepia Eltnam Oberon and Oberon
There are also two unrelated Ritsukas (and I don't count fgo protagonist genders as two) and also two, arguably three Alices (and they all have Lewis Carol references).
WE FINALLY GETTING SOME FATE CONTENT!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the video, I understood nothing and became more confused
The Nasuverse is a hard series to get into and yet it's still so popular, why do you think is that?
There is really nothing that connects Tsuki no Sango to the Fate side of Type Moon at all. It's very much it's own thing, but thematically it's obviously tied to Tsukihime since Nasu outright calls it Tsukihime 3000.
I’m suprised that FighterzDen didnt do this first lol
Well you gone to explain Nasuverse, nice job... well it is everyone question at this point, but i rather called nasuverse timeline, since fate is only a part of it as whole
Nah I don't think to get into fate is that hard or confusing. In my opinion, what makes it confusing are the absolute chaos animes are. For the rest, except for Extra timeline clusterfuck and Hollow Ataraxia itself, one can pick almost any work and enjoy it completely as a starter as long as they pick the source material (shame there are so many untranslated novels). But, well, the safest and most complete entry point is still the original Fate/stay night visual novel.
What's wrong with Ataraxia lol?
@@AngraMainiiu Nothing. But why would anybody read FHA before FSN?