As someone who has worked in the industry (go read Vampirella: Dead Flowers by Sara Frazetta and myself), in micro-presses, small presses, and bigger companies, I can attest to the fact that comics are a hot mess. I love the medium. I've worked at nearly every position - writer, penciler, inker, colorist, letterer, editor - and I love every bit of it. But you're right. Comics will continue to become a niche market, until there are mostly a memory...but at least there will always be comics, albeit in a different form.
I just finished reading Dead Flowers and it was great! Been really enjoying a lot of the vampi stuff lately that Priest has been doing as well. Excited for Vampirella 666
I’ve read at least 5,000 of my comics. Th Dead Flowers series was the first time I read Vampirella. It was great. Thanks!! I hope floppies are here to stay but the political correctness might kill it off like it did with the Star Wars and Marvel movies.
I used to walk 2+ miles to the downtown dairyette with 50¢ in my pocket. I would buy a comic (25¢), a soda (15¢), and a candy bar (10¢)...or just two comics! Glorious days!
When I was a kid my grandpa would give me a dollar (and a nickel for tax) and I'd walk about a mile to a convenience store and get 'em. I could get four, or sometimes get one of those "100 pages for 60 cents" huge ones. I was a sucker for those... Read 'em over and over and over. Still have 'em.
For me, comics were 12 cents, cokes a dime, and candy bars a nickel. I and my mom would sometimes catch the bus to Huntsville AL where she would take me to bookstores that had even better selections than the convenience stores back home. Those were some awesome times. Thunder Agents #1 and Marvel Collector Item Classics 2 were my first two comics as a kid. I will never forget them.
In the 80s, I would ride my bike to the gas station with $2.00 dollars in my pocket. I would get a comic, Reese's cups, and Hawaiian Punch in a can. If I had a quarter left over, I would play an arcade game. Glory days as a kid.
As Manga reader I largely agree. I you can pick up manga almost anywhere and it is so easy to get into a series. You just pick up volume one and with exception of series like one piece they don't go on forever. You get a proper ending. That said I still from time to time will pick up comic at my local library, like right now I picked up a Red Sonja trade paperback but that is rare.
Trade paperback volumes are superior in every way to the floppies. I grew up on the floppies simply because they were the only form of comics available to me. But I much prefer trade paperbacks now. I will always take quality over quantity. If less comics are published but they are much higher quality comics, then that sounds like a good thing to me. The latest volume of Batman could come out about as frequently as each new Stephen King novel, and as long as the quality is almost as high as the King novel, to me that's a much better situation than what we have now.
You made a lot of valid points in pricing /distribution etc, But didn't really touch on the hot button issues that are also a reason for declining sales. Those being the pushing of political and social agendas, hyper emphasizing the social element and pandering to a very small portion of their readers and alienating the far greater. DC and Marvel have become notorious for this practice and it only serves to push away long time readers who respect the characters and value and honor the creators who gave us these hero's If Marvel and D.C wish to be inclusive to the LGBTQ community, then write new characters, don't destroy existing characters, forcing sexuality and gender as the entire point of the story. Most readers want their hero's fighting villain's, not protesting for the ecology movement, or sitting in a bubble bath sexting with their gay lover. When you take established characters and completely change their gender and or, race, when you re-write them in as bisexual/gay trans you are alienating many. When you make the evil character M.O.D.A.A.K. a Donald Trump Clone, you are going to alienate many. When you turn the villain Red Skull into a version of Jordan Peterson you are going to alienate many. Most of us want to escape when reading comics, we don't want to have agendas pushed on us, we want great storytelling from writers and editors who truly honor the creators, the hero's and the fans. Many of us have given up over the last decade or so and refuse to support the big 2. In my and others opinion they don't care about us at all. Any respectful feedback given to them they label us with the R word and the H word. JUST.... WRITE...NEW...CHARACTERS. Dont fundamentally change existing characters. It makes no sense, and it reeks of pushing an agenda. Fortunately we have many decades of past quality reprint material to read, from editors and writers who loved these characters as much as we do.
New characters, unlike those intruders like Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, and Katar Hol! And what’s with taking all those fine monster and horror comics and making them about super weirdos like the Fantastic Four and anti-Christian propaganda crusaders like Thor! Truly we live in unprecedented times.
I completely agree with your analysis of pricing and availability. When I was young, I would spend the little money I had on comic books that could be found in comic shops or bookstores or, like you said, even convenience stores. Also, like, you, I haven't bought individual issues in many years, but I do buy graphic novels, especially if it's a creator or character that draws my interest.
Back in the 50s and 60s how I loved comic books ("comics") - especially the movie tie-in ones like Dinosaurus!, Journey to the Center of the Earth, The Lost World ... of course Superman, Gold Key comics like Dr. Solar and Brain Boy, war comics like Sgt. Rock ... and let's not forget all the glorious cover art on Classics Illustrated. A world gone by...
I'll do a tiny rant, but I'll keep it nice. I started seeing a lot of UA-camrs predicting the end of the floppy comic about five years ago. At that time, I scoffed and said it would never happen. If for no other reason that the movie companies want them to keep going just to create more intellectual properties. But, in the last year, I have begun to believe that if something doesn't change, it's going to happen. And I mainly comment because you hit on the thing keep bringing up that is the main reason for the downfall, which comic store owners don't want to acknowledge. I've been collecting comics since I was a little kid. When my mother would take me with her to the grocery store and I would be begging for something to take home, she would usually allow me to get a comic. They were cheap and would keep me busy for a few hours, since she knew I would dig out my other ones and check out the whole story. Much better than buying some cheap toy that would fall apart in the car before we got home. The main takeaway there, was like you brought up, comics were CHEAP! I mean, they've always cost a little bit, a dime in the 1940's was a bigger deal than it is now. But they used to be an impulse buy that was not too much of a stretch on the finances. Now, the problems facing modern comics are multiple. 1) They are far to expensive for impulse buying. 2) The over-proliferation in theaters of all of these comic movies has caused a burn-out and now that's not a safety net for the books themselves as it has been for the last decade. But the major issue is 3) The places to pick up comics is too limited. You hit the nail on the head when you said that it's too hard for people to find comics now. In the old days, you could find them in spinner racks in grocery stores, drug stores, gas stations, etc. And a lot of kids would pick them up just because they were colorful and their parents didn't mind getting a comic too much because they were fairly cheap by inflation standards. But the early 1990's saw the rise of a comic specialty shop or ten in every city and town because of the big Comic Boom that came from the death of Superman. A slow news week created a new stock market for the masses in comics. Or so they thought. But every bubble busts and so did that one! Hard! But it HAD got a lot of young people into the hobby and the effects were slow to wear off. In their original days, comic shops were mainly a place you went to buy back issues or books you couldn't get in the spinner racks. And by the 1980's the manufacturers were trying to work with comic shops by letting them get their books a couple weeks ahead of the grocery stores. The proliferation of comic shops in the early 90's caused a lot of the grocery and drug stores to take out their spinner racks because no one was buying comics in them. So, the hobby became a niche for people that were already into collecting. The problem being that you're not getting a steady stream of young people getting into the hobby because it's so readily available. Now, you just have a lot of people that are aging out of the hobby, people that are getting out because they don't like the politics of the comics companies now, and a few die-hard collectors who hold on until they pass and their treasures get sold for peanuts at estate sales. Before I get to the final crux, I'll say the other big problem is the internet. I don't feel like digital will ever really kill the market. Collectors don't like it because they have no value other than for reading. Which is enough for me, but a lot of modern collectors just buy books for grading or value. A lot don't even open their books. I've seen a few of these bringing in their kids to the comic shops and badgering their kids on which "keys" to buy but them screaming at them to be careful and not to open the books. Oh, yeah. Those kids are going to hate the hobby because their parents were so caught up in it. Or at least some will. Anyway, in this current post-Covid society, people don't feel the need to go to stores as much, and just buy their comics from the Big Two or Three comic shops like Mile High and Mycomicshop.com. I mean, why pay store prices to your local shop when you can get them discounted online from the warehouses? I know all the comic shops keep trying to get this business, but when you're just having a storefront where you spend all of your time on the computer with Ebay, you might as well not have the storefront. AND, my main point. Patient Zero. The comic store. Modern comic store owners love to cry and complain about how their business is dying and what can possibly be done to save it? But the moment you mention that comics would benefit from being more easily accessible, they shut you down quick! They've had a strangle hold on the hobby for a couple of decades, and even though business is drying up, they don't want any competition. Like I said before, back in the day a good chunk of your big cities would have a comic shop. Usually that serviced an entire area. Big cities would probably have several. But in this day and age, with fewer new people dropping into the hobby, business is winding down. But these people have no desire to share any profits, even if they were increase due to more people coming into the scene. They have forgotten their reason for existence. Comic stores came into being because collectors wanted to be able to go get back issues for their collections and wanted a place to do it other than a playground trading with their friends. Now, the comic shops I know put their back issues in dark basements or grimy attics and flood their shelves with Funko Pops, because "that's where the money is!" Not knowing that historically, this was the beginning of the end of shops. This happened in the late 90's with the American Comics chain. Comics dried up after the Death of Superman bubble burst and American became AnotherUniverse.com and focused most of their energy on action figures. That fad died away in a couple of years, since toys have their own shops, and now where is AnotherUniverse.com? So, now, yes, I believe we could be at the end of the rope. Manga does well because you can get it in most bookstores fairly easily. And trade paperback and omnibus collections can be found in most bookstores. But the high prices make them a little daunting. I'm not sure the trade format could really save comics by becoming the new format. A lot of creators can barely handle getting out a monthly thirty page title. Not sure most would do a book every six months and make sure to get it out. We could truly see Marvel or DC drop their comic lines in the next few years because there's just no market for it anymore. In closing, I think it's ironic that back in the 90's, if a book had sales less than 20,000 units, Marvel would cancel it. Now, they celebrate if one of their top books can even crack the 20,000 units ceiling. Sad days for comic collectors...
I'm old enough to remember feeling horrified when the Green Goblin killed Gwen Stacy in the original edition of The Amazing Spider-Man no. 121. It's kinda sad to learn the death of a prominent character is now a common gimmick to boost sales.
Maybe they could sell the floppies in black and white, go back to newsprint, and drop the prices considerably? I might start buying them again, but they're too expensive now.
I agree on comics not dying. But "waiting for the trade" already kills too many series. Big companies don't care a bit about anything except revenue. If they can pay less to writers and artists, to them that is great. They are not interested in quality and very much not interested in anything new. Unless it sells really well. Floppies sell horrendously and far too many series get the axe upon their neck even if it is great storytelling. But the sales are " not good enough". So less comics. Because if you go straight to trade, it is not "it better sell" it is " this MUST sell". A Futura I do not expect as I love comics.
Got no comic shops in my local town, for me, if I pick up a 'floppie' then it will be in London. Prefer to buy them in collected editions. Perhaps at some point, the old style comics will stop or will be extremely limited and we will just pick up the stories in 250+ page graphic novels. Perhaps DC / Marvel should release them in smaller book format / black and white like mangas ? I would buy the Marvel tales in that. Also, would love to see more variety. I prefer the manga stories about problems on a tennis court or issues in a family, stories in a hospital etc over any of the super hero comics now. I miss that in the UK comics, used to have zillions of those stories in small format paperbacks in black and white. I used to buy comics at about 5p a time, could buy 20 or so a month easily (about £1), that now would be £100. It meant I could easily explore all kinds of comic titles, didn't always stick to the Fantastic Four etc. Ok, the paper quality wasn't great but I still liked the comics I bought.
Someone a while back (can't recall who) suggested a 2-tier system...basic, cheaper comics printed with glossy covers, with interior pages on far cheaper newsprint - to get kids reading again. Then, for the over 25s, the prestige graphic novel/trade collections on better quality paper. These would be for the collectors, or people who simply can pay more. This way, more actual comics could be read + consumed each month.
Would make sense, like the bluray / dvd / 4K market, a basic release at a lot cheaper price and then a collector's edition with the booklets, posters, the extras, top quality comic paper etc
Don't really see this happening because to get to the trade stage that's ready to be released you need comic books anyway. You could look at them as the chapters that the artist has available because it takes a long time to draw this stuff. Manga's have the equivalent of comics also but they are released in magazine format such as Weekly Shonen Jump and collected in manga Tankobon format. In a lot of ways the mangas you see are like a version of trade paperback format. So to get to that TPK or manga stage you need the material released as chapters anyway. You could look at them as the artist saying "this is what I've got so far" but you're right they should be selling American comics in more locations like they used to news stands grocery stores ect ..
I don't know that I'd ever buy a floppy comic over a trade. As a relatively newer comic reader, you just get a MUCH better valuation of what you spend to get the trade, and they are a lot easier to browse on a shelf and avoids the problem of trying to find a rarer issue.
Interesting discussion, from another fan who started off with spinner racks, bookstores, and a neighborhood comic shop (Tomorrow Is Yesterday, named for the classic Star Trek episode). These days, the comic shop is closed, I buy only compilation collections of my favorites, and my kids and all their friends are reading manga. It's also interesting to me when I ask them what appeals to them in manga over comics, it's never artwork, format, etc. They always say, first thing, that the manga writers know how to tell a compelling story. That always sticks out for me, as an older fan of older comic books.
The #1 change was completely outside comics’ control: the consolidation of magazine distributors in the 1970s. The decade started with about 20, and finished with about 3. Without the opportunities created by competing distributors jockeying for shelf space, everything changed. It killed off a bunch of sci fi/fantasy mags and weakened all the survivors. Same deal in every genre. Magazines went bigger, slicker, and with more curated ads because people still willing to buy them liked it that way. It’s all the story of adapting to a changed market.
Funny, but while I usually pick up the trades or omnis anymore, the ads in the floppies were what always took my back, nostalgicly. They really placed the time when I first read the story at the forefront.
As a kid growing up in the seventies comics have indeed changed. Can comic books survive as an art and an entertainment for an audience at its current price point? I say no. Is there a solution out there that will save the art form? I say there is. I will get to that in a while. First before I get to my solution I want to state the problems as I see them. These will be in no particular order,as in one being more to blame than another. 1. The price of today’s comic book is entirely too high for what the consumer gets in my opinion.Yes, the paper quality has indeed improved but again, in my opinion, the overall quality of the product continues to plummet. 2.There is too much pandering to specific groups that I believe turn many n these groups off. Wonder Woman has sold for decades with its themes of fighting for justice and female empowerment . Let’s say for example that it leans so far on the theme of female empowerment, that it begins to show males in an all too unsympathetic light. Not only would you lose your male readership, you would also lose a significant portion of the females who love them. I don’t know what Wonder Woman is like these days. I haven’t read her in some time but she has endured because of her overall popularity, not because the title catered solely to a female audience. There was something in there that catered to both. Birds Of Prey on the other hand , I believe ,may have pandered too much to one audience it may have turned both male and female readers off. Stan Lee took great pains to not get too political while remaining relevant. I don’t think anyone would accuse him of pandering., while seeking to attract the audience, to Ms. Marvel or She Hulk. There must be something in your product that gives it wide appeal.I think too much pandering is going on in order to attract certain audiences that hurts the industry. 3.Too little is paid to the writers and artists etc.in order for them to make a decent living from the craft. For many the pay is too low to support a family, much less themselves. The dream of making a living with comics being the main source of income for many, is just that, a dream.Forcing many who are supremely talented to look elsewhere to express their artistic talents. That leaves people,who in my opinion, who are less talented, in many cases because the talent pool has dried up. To be sure this has been a problem for decades and is not a new thing,but now the the industry is reaping what it has sown for itself as far as pay goes. Is there a solution? I believe there is. Neal Adams talked about this years ago This is by no means my original idea. In order for this to work however one form of the comic medium will certainly have to die so that the other can flourish. The comic book has to die! That time has indeed come. The Graphic Novel must become the vehicle for American comics. Look at how popular Manga has become on these shores. I believe comics lovers would indeed gladly pay for more story, more pages, more quality content. That means that the workload will be heavier on writers and artists. The product will cease to be monthly or bi-monthly. With more time to work on a project though the quality will improve.The Internet is here advertising for graphic novels needs to be heavy on the Internet. Will this hurt comic book store? I am not sure? I believe most of the income generated by these businesses nowadays, is generated by something other than comics, such as, T-shirts, etc I would be willing to bet most of the comics sold in these stores that generate real income are, back issues, reprints, omnibuses,graphic novels, not new comics. comics professionals need to be paid more in order to make a real living. That is a must. More pay, will attract better talent. Pandering must stop. What will happen to Marvel in DC and the other companies? They will either adapt the graphic novel as the primary comics form and pay professionals more or die! Someone believe me will fill the void !
Clearly there is a concern, more and more this subject arises and more frequently, if there wasn't a problem more and more of us wouldn't speculate. I think if the trend continues, we are looking at a change coming, like fate of the mass paperback, the trade will dominate the format. For a few years now the titles I followed from the big two has dwindled due to, price, value, erosion of material quality, reboot reboot reboot erasure, and the bastardisation of intellectual properties. Collected editions of vintage and back catalog material will soon be all I purchase.
Oh floppies, how I love you! But I had to stop too - about six months ago. They shall wait, slightly bent, glossy, and unfortunately priced, to be read. Weird ads. Jumpy stories. Piled together so each gets its partners bend. They will be there, but fewer, perhaps more select.
I buy comics from my comic book store I've been going to for almost a decade, depending on what's out changes how many I get. I don't think that the single issue comics will ever totally go, I know there's plenty of collectors who want these types of comics. The one thing I do not want to see is a digitization of comics, I need to have either the single issues or the trades I refuse to read comics on a phone or something. I do think that it would be better for comics if they start being distributed in more places again like they were up to the 90s or early 2000s when I would get spawn at my local grocery store
Great topic Michael! I think there will always be a demand for comic books, no matter how small that demand is. I actually prefer to read them in omnibi format.
Ooh tough subject. Having four older kids myself I can say though they enjoy the occasional comic book they are more into Manga. The book format for the equivalent of $10 is a better value and more convenient format. The time for some struggling lines to switch to the book/manga format may be here already 🤷🏻♂️.
I agree, there's virtually so many different archs and canons for each major superhero character at this point, that it is almost unfollowable as someone trying to pick up a comic off of the shelf at just any store. They've lost grounding on their main identity that made them distinct and had their followings in the first place. And rely soulely on recognition of their name/brand. Then they introduced the concept of "Multiverses" in Marvel which is just a shallow way to justify this type of writing where anything goes. You can have a dozen different plots and movies and comic publications that are a hodgepodge of the most absolutely whackiest story archs that anyone who watched the movie, played a video game, can't just walk into a comic shop anymore and be on the same page very easily any longer.
As an industry, it's in a horrible / disgusting state. What needs to happen is the big 2, plus some of the mid sized companies need to go out of business and the small Indies who still care and have passion and respect for the medium need to grow. Being someone who purchased over 130 titles a month at my prime. I can count on one hand the ones I've found worth purchasing in today day and age.
I rode my Mongoose bike down to the shop with loose change in my pocket, and that's how I kept up with the Avengers, Doctor Who, and Godzilla through the 70s and 80s. The Dark Horse comics were always something special. I also remember waiting for each new installment of the short Vision solo run, who is my favorite superhero. In the 90s I got into experimental horror comics like Verotik. But like you, in the last thirty years I have turned into the guy that buys the collections to see what's going on in comics these days.
Hmmm. I'm one of those who've stopped buying comics altogether. The last "comic" type book I read was the manga Death Note (highly recommend it!). I still have a bookcase full of unread comic collections. Maybe it's time to sell them?
A switch to trade paperbacks could happen extremely quickly. For manga, the industry was putting out floppies from 1987 (when Viz started publishing manga) to about 2002 or 2003 (when Tokyopop dropped floppies converting to all graphic novel versions). Nearly all of the manga industry quickly went back, renegotiated their contracts with the Japanese publishers, and followed Tokyopop's example within about a year or two. in early 2002, most manga came out in comic shops as floppies. By early 2004 hardly any did. It changed amazingly fast.
Have to agree with GentleReader re distribution. Damn I miss those SF mags. They may as well be completely gone. MysteryandMayhem seems to be forgetting that SF cons were first and the huge bleed over from SF fans/writers to comics. Schwartz Weisenger etc. Did I mention how much I miss those SF mags? The problem no one is mentioning is that "floppies" are how people learn the trade. The discipline of producing a monthly comic hones the skills of all concerned. A quick glance at Windsor-Smiths Conan run is an adequate demonstration. We can't afford to lose floppies.
I also grew up in a time when you could buy floppy comics in corner stores, gas stations, and grocery stores. Like you mentioned, now, you can only find them at comic shops and online. One of the problems with floppies today is thr price. It is ridiculous that they are charging four, five, and more dollars for a single floppy comic. There are a handful of floppies that are a decent price, the Spawn comics come to mind; still at the $2.99 price point. (Thank you Image and Todd McFarlane.) I think eventually, floppy comics will die. Unless they can lower the price, and get them back into other stores. (Which I don't see happening.) And that is sad. Because as a kid, going to the local corner store in walking distance from my house to buy Spawn, X-Men, and other comics was a highlight of my childhood.
I agree with everything you said. I think you hit it all on the head, with your , yes, I will say it, 'astute' observations on all of of the reasons as to why floppy comics are going and what will happen to them. (If we get Roger and Morn from DS9 together, no one will ever get a word in.)
Im going to date myself very badly…BUT…I remember as a kid buying comics for .25 - .35 cents each. I could go to Ben Franklins or the locally owned 5 & dime and buy 2 or 3 comics and still have change left to buy a handful of 3 & 5 cent candy. A kid could spend a Saturday afternoon reading comics and eating candy for a buck. At today’s prices that would take at least $20 although with adjusting for inflation comics should only cost about $1.75 today.
I've never been into mainstream comics, but have enjoyed several indie comics. I found them through meeting the artists. And man, are they struggling. One problem with the industry struggling is that fewer artists (and inkers and writers) really can make a living creating comics... so fewer artists develop deep skills, and fewer even try to, instead pursuing other outlets. It's the creative equivalent of brain drain when a state is failing.
Comic books today are often boring… lots and lots of dialogue… not that much action… often they are written by authors who self insert identity politics instead of having a good old fashioned fight..very expensive for what they are selling… it’s nowhere near as good as we had it.
The first comics were 64 page anthologies which featured multiple series. I think you could do something similar with trades: DC, for instance, could produce comics the same way they always have, but package several of them together in a themed trade that could come out monthly or quarterly. As an example, you might have a thick trade anthology featuring separate comic book length tales of various heroes, or of darker characters, or of fantasy characters, the equivalent of several floppies under one cover. Then you could pluck out the individual features periodically for solo trades, pretty much the same pattern that now exists, using the same production schedule.
I miss the old DC 80 page giants that were 25 cents. As a kid these would keep me busy for an entire week. You got old reprints of stuff you thought you would never see. I feel bad that the children of today will never have the fun of going through a well mixed spinner, finding thta exciting Jim Steranko cover, or thta fantastic Neal Adams cover, or the classic Dell comics with picture covers, not to mention the Gold Key paintred covers. Ahhhh the days.... Thanks as always Michael!
I guess you and I have to consider ourselves lucky that we were around for the greatest era of comics. I think comic books, as we know them, are on their way out. Comic cons aren't even focused on comics anymore. It's all about celebrities, movies, and cosplay nowadays.The fact that comics started the whole geek culture that predominates everything these days is totally ignored. I miss the old spinner racks!
It’s surprising but .35 cents in 1978 would be almost $2 today. So the price of a comic has doubled in regards to adjusted purchasing power. That says more about the economy today and expendable income than comic books. Comics have to compete with other choices people have, such as phone apps, cable subscription services, but video games have improved as well, but more entertaining.
I just hope it never turns all digital. Music and movies are moving towards it. Maybe only us oldies are still buying physical copies. As to comics, it's losing popularity because the comics are aiming at older readers with more disposable income. The best age to get a person started is when they're young but the price is not letting them. Does a 9 year old kid have 4-5 dollars to spend on comics?
85 or 86 first time I went to a comic shop. Saw someone’s secret wars at 14 yrs old and became obsessed. X men and suicide squad were favourites that I read every issue for a few yrs straight
Yeah. When I was a kid, ardently buying my monthly Marvels in the late '60s at Al's Party Pantry and Sav-on Drug Store, I could afford every title they put out for less than two bucks a month. A perfect amount for a kid like me with my allowance of 6 quarters a week and a growing baseball card habit.
Maybe monthly titles all go to Print on Demand. I suspect that either Marvel or DC are going to end their monthly lines within 2 years and simply make their money on licensing and reprints. They don't really want to deal with consumer demands or market trends. They just want payment NOW!
I stopped reading monthlies near the end of my schooling. At that point, I had a stack of issues I had not read and could no longer justify buying them. I was in a local comic shop for the first time in a while a week or so ago. I was surprised by the amount of manga. I appreciate having access to the stories and forms of other cultures. However, I really appreciate the American comic book. I'm not a huge D.C. fan. I started reading D.C. monthlies when 52 started. But, I cannot think that sepia toned Super Girl is a good idea. Your video has me considering ordering up an X-Men monthly again. There is something I enjoy about being able to step into a series and have a sense of what is going on almost immediately. It can be a source of comfort. I collect trades now too. One thing that might be lost if large scale distribution of monthlies goes away is the ability to experiment with new characters, stories, art, and crossovers. I've never been involved in the industry, but from my time reading, it appears like the editors would green light small projects and maybe have a larger name show up to push a few stories. This may have been how newer characters made it into the main stream. Without the ability to take risks each month, some of the artistic vibrancy of the medium may fade. I like the ability to purchase trades. But I can see how you have forecasted the demise of diversity in this piece. Small publishers should be able to release interesting stories. But, without the ability to reach even a medium sized audience the impact of the comic book culture will decrease. There are a number of digital products I've seen that have been successful. I've also followed a new comic book story release via a website. Perhaps patron style website monthlies might be successful? RPGs have had some success with patron backed independent content. Wolfgang Baur and the people at Kobold Press & OpenDesign have done wonders with that model.
Online is even more expensive because you have shipping cost as well. For me, why i rarely buy comic books it, because most of them have stories in them which are to be continued. You need to buy the other one ...and the other one etc... to see what happens. And i know they do that to keep buyers coming back... but it can also go the opposite way.. and specially for 'new' readers for that specific comic book. I can't just buy a superman once in a while and have a whole story with an end. But overall i love the floppy comics... so i hope they will not go away. Manga in my country (The Netherlands) is btw not cheaper than comics. You can buy a new manga for about 9 - 12 euro's.
Pricing nowadays is too much to bear. Also, the quality is well below what it once was. The 90's were gritty and many will say that stories were too dark but I believe those were far more captivating than what comics have been the last 4-5 years. Lastly, oversaturation to me is too much. DC has a Batman problem and Marvel has a Wolverine problem. You add them into every team book or adding mini series after mini and it just gets tiresome.
Western comics probably, but the chances I think are very low. Despite how crappy the business is, it's still a million dollar business with 2 big companies at the forefront. As long as they keep publishing I don't think the medium is gonna die out soon. Manga and Manhwa on the other hand I think it's still doing pretty well.
Comics will not go away forever. They will evolve into another medium. Paperbacks or graphic novel forms. Single issues have gotten a bit too expensive, tho. Dc just decreased their paper quality and raised the price.
The first place I bought a comic book was the Harvey Office Supply store which is a vacant lot now. The first books bought there was Metal Men#16 and a Giant Size Superboy!!!!!!!
Yes the Superman secret identity thing was definitely retconnned...now no one can remember Clark and Superman are the same guy thanks to Lex Luthor of all people..😅
Manga (most in black and white) is dominating everything so comics are clearly still popular. The American comic industry is declining due to terrible corporate decisions. How can they fail when marvel and DC movies rake in billions at the cinema it's criminal financial incompetence.
Ironic I'm watching this video the same day I decide to subscribe to Batman, Detective, Fantastic Four and Incredible Hulk! Getting them to Bangladesh could be tricky though. I do miss visiting physical comic book stores, I still remember my Empire Comics trips every week during my time in Rochester.
I could go on and on but will try to keep things short. Floppy comics have become an art print. The cover has become the most important thing (especially with the take over of the grading market and ratio variant covers forcing stores to buy so many copies) and rarely the story moves books. Though the Marvel relaunch of Ultimate Spider-man seems to be moving books for both the story and the dozens and dozens of different covers. I will be picking up a trade eventually. I pick up 20 to 30 floppies a month with a varying amount of trades. For years keep saying will only get Daredevil (I have a run of almost every issue since vol 1 issue 80) and do the trade wait. Unfortunately DC even with modern trades always seems to have some kind of issue if it isn't a book dealing with one of the Trinity or Sandman related. Monthly comics and even toys have become an adult niche market because kids are happier with phones/tablets and the various aps. The device could have a huge buy in but in the end far less expensive.
No, while I think the 32 page magazine is on life support, tradePBKS will remain and fewer volumes will be published! It's the fault of the mainstream publishers by flooding the market with "product": good, bad and indifferent! Is it possible we'll see American magazines similar to Shonn Jump as "ntroductory" volumes w/ multiple characters per volume, sold mostly in bookstores and super markkets? Maybe.
Personally I don’t collect single issues anymore because they don’t last more than 15 minutes. If and when they sell in collections that’s when I buy them because it actually lasts me a good while and I don’t have to worry about them being as fragile as they would be single issue
It's a generational thing. I think you and I are both part of the spinner rack to DM generation. Manga is fresh and new (to us anyway)and not what your dad's reading. There's a big animation component and it's consistent. Now if every shop were smart, they need to carry everything. Some do. Locally I have two that do just that. Floppies, YA and Manga. I think a weekly shonen jump type format could work. Cheap thick bw anthologies with new characters and concepts. Take what you would release that week and collect it together.
Comic book shops have been dropping like flies in this area. Very sad. But when you think of the economics of it, I don’t know how any of them make money. Especially when they also consistently get screwed by people’s pull-lists that don’t get picked up. Maybe a shift to a small number of mega-comic shops would help…. I don’t know. Diamond also doesn’t make it easy for these guys… the legal case handing them a distribution monopoly was really flawed (as a legal matter), but that’s where it is, and it ain’t good for little shops. And I don’t know what the answer is about production expense. A lot costs go into quality product the market expects today, so there’s a limit to how cheaply they can be sold. Buts it’s too much for a stack every month. I myself stopped with single issues years ago…. It just became too expensive of a habit.
Even though I didn't read comics and manga until I was much older, I wish I picked up some floppy comics when I was younger. However, I do love graphic novel omnibuses for comics like the hardcover ultimate editions of the 1984 TMNT series. However, I feel like comics would benefit more if they were made in a hardcover bind up like a junji ito short story collection manga. You can usually fit 12 short stories in a volume like that. I don't want comics to go extinct though, I just feel if the hard cover omnibus route it would be easier to keep track of the story that your keeping up with.🙂❤📚
Classics Illustrated comic books were my gateway into serious reading.I would read "The Time Machine" in comic book form, then I'd read the H. G. Wells book. Classics Illustrated even had a comic of "Caesar's Conquests". As far as I know, Classics Illustrated are no longer published. Sadly this may be eventually the fate of all comics
The audience for super hero comic is diminishing. There hasn't been a substantive regeneration of readership in decades. Non super hero comics on the other hand are doing well. Maybe going the European route of publishing graphic novels. Ed Brubaker/Sean Phillips, for example, have an established audience who like their graphic novels like Reckless. Young people prefer Manga. Among my friends kids, they like the super hero movies, but won't read the comics. However, they do like manga, which they read digitially, and sometimes even buy the books. Doubt when they get older they'll want to read a Conan, FF, DD, or Batman omni or tpb. Likely after Generation X has died off there won't be much of an audience left for them
It's one of the few areas of the American economy where you have a duopoly with no real competitors (apart from manga). They have no new ideas or the will to try any, because they don't really need to. We've had wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Ukraine - but where are all the war comics? Where's the modern day version of 'Palestine' or 'Gorazde' by Joe Sacco? They've become safe, which means boring. Comics are just a side hussle for Marvel and DC, they will go eventually, which won't be a bad thing.
i like manga and American time books other I'm not a big collector or reader of them I do read some of them very few both are out of my price range right now
For one thing, they're too expensive now. A single issue of a regular comic book shouldnt be more than $1.75. Especially since a lot of the artists are garbage and overall most comics are ao badly written these days. Theres also no more legit milestones or events to get excited over.
I’ve never been much of a collector, so I’m quite content to read some of the older titles on my IPad. I’ll pay an annual fee to DC and Marvel to have access to their digital libraries. I also stopped buying comic books several years ago, as woke culture took hold of the industry.
With releases of super hero comic character movies released every month, these characters are going nowhere. I think the two media forms go hand in hand. One washes the others back. I think there is a need for all. Collectors want the floppies. They will buy them. These characters deaths remind me of soap operas. They are dead one minute and alive the next.
As someone who has worked in the industry (go read Vampirella: Dead Flowers by Sara Frazetta and myself), in micro-presses, small presses, and bigger companies, I can attest to the fact that comics are a hot mess. I love the medium. I've worked at nearly every position - writer, penciler, inker, colorist, letterer, editor - and I love every bit of it. But you're right. Comics will continue to become a niche market, until there are mostly a memory...but at least there will always be comics, albeit in a different form.
Yeah right. There’s plenty of great comics coming out now.
I just finished reading Dead Flowers and it was great! Been really enjoying a lot of the vampi stuff lately that Priest has been doing as well. Excited for Vampirella 666
@@Swamp-Bat Thanks! That means a lot.
I’ve read at least 5,000 of my comics. Th Dead Flowers series was the first time I read Vampirella. It was great. Thanks!!
I hope floppies are here to stay but the political correctness might kill it off like it did with the Star Wars and Marvel movies.
@@CBs_Bill_from_Montana Thanks for reading!
I used to walk 2+ miles to the downtown dairyette with 50¢ in my pocket. I would buy a comic (25¢), a soda (15¢), and a candy bar (10¢)...or just two comics! Glorious days!
When I was a kid my grandpa would give me a dollar (and a nickel for tax) and I'd walk about a mile to a convenience store and get 'em. I could get four, or sometimes get one of those "100 pages for 60 cents" huge ones. I was a sucker for those... Read 'em over and over and over. Still have 'em.
For me, comics were 12 cents, cokes a dime, and candy bars a nickel. I and my mom would sometimes catch the bus to Huntsville AL where she would take me to bookstores that had even better selections than the convenience stores back home. Those were some awesome times. Thunder Agents #1 and Marvel Collector Item Classics 2 were my first two comics as a kid. I will never forget them.
In the 80s, I would ride my bike to the gas station with $2.00 dollars in my pocket. I would get a comic, Reese's cups, and Hawaiian Punch in a can. If I had a quarter left over, I would play an arcade game. Glory days as a kid.
Didn't any of you guys have bicycles?
@@stretmediq Yes....but it was shared among 4 kids .... Let me guess when you were young 🙄
As Manga reader I largely agree. I you can pick up manga almost anywhere and it is so easy to get into a series. You just pick up volume one and with exception of series like one piece they don't go on forever. You get a proper ending.
That said I still from time to time will pick up comic at my local library, like right now I picked up a Red Sonja trade paperback but that is rare.
Trade paperback volumes are superior in every way to the floppies. I grew up on the floppies simply because they were the only form of comics available to me. But I much prefer trade paperbacks now. I will always take quality over quantity. If less comics are published but they are much higher quality comics, then that sounds like a good thing to me. The latest volume of Batman could come out about as frequently as each new Stephen King novel, and as long as the quality is almost as high as the King novel, to me that's a much better situation than what we have now.
I agree save one aspect: floppies are better to read in the back of the car or on the bathroom
Much mixh better😊
@@luciferfernandez7094Why?
I wouldn't mind if they would just publish novels based on the characters regularly rather than or in addition to comics.
@@CelestialWoodway easier to hold on your hands and easier to hide from hysterical moms
You made a lot of valid points in pricing /distribution etc, But didn't really touch on the hot button issues that are also a reason for declining sales. Those being the pushing of political and social agendas, hyper emphasizing the social element and pandering to a very small portion of their readers and alienating the far greater. DC and Marvel have become notorious for this practice and it only serves to push away long time readers who respect the characters and value and honor the creators who gave us these hero's
If Marvel and D.C wish to be inclusive to the LGBTQ community, then write new characters, don't destroy existing characters, forcing sexuality and gender as the entire point of the story.
Most readers want their hero's fighting villain's, not protesting for the ecology movement, or sitting in a bubble bath sexting with their gay lover.
When you take established characters and completely change their gender and or, race, when you re-write them in as bisexual/gay trans you are alienating many.
When you make the evil character M.O.D.A.A.K. a Donald Trump Clone, you are going to alienate many. When you turn the villain Red Skull into a version of Jordan Peterson you are going to alienate many.
Most of us want to escape when reading comics, we don't want to have agendas pushed on us, we want great storytelling from writers and editors who truly honor the creators, the hero's and the fans.
Many of us have given up over the last decade or so and refuse to support the big 2. In my and others opinion they don't care about us at all. Any respectful feedback given to them they label us with the R word and the H word.
JUST.... WRITE...NEW...CHARACTERS.
Dont fundamentally change existing characters. It makes no sense, and it reeks of pushing an agenda.
Fortunately we have many decades of past quality reprint material to read, from editors and writers who loved these characters as much as we do.
New characters, unlike those intruders like Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, and Katar Hol! And what’s with taking all those fine monster and horror comics and making them about super weirdos like the Fantastic Four and anti-Christian propaganda crusaders like Thor! Truly we live in unprecedented times.
I completely agree with your analysis of pricing and availability. When I was young, I would spend the little money I had on comic books that could be found in comic shops or bookstores or, like you said, even convenience stores. Also, like, you, I haven't bought individual issues in many years, but I do buy graphic novels, especially if it's a creator or character that draws my interest.
Back in the 50s and 60s how I loved comic books ("comics") - especially the movie tie-in ones like Dinosaurus!, Journey to the Center of the Earth, The Lost World ... of course Superman, Gold Key comics like Dr. Solar and Brain Boy, war comics like Sgt. Rock ... and let's not forget all the glorious cover art on Classics Illustrated. A world gone by...
I'll do a tiny rant, but I'll keep it nice. I started seeing a lot of UA-camrs predicting the end of the floppy comic about five years ago. At that time, I scoffed and said it would never happen. If for no other reason that the movie companies want them to keep going just to create more intellectual properties. But, in the last year, I have begun to believe that if something doesn't change, it's going to happen. And I mainly comment because you hit on the thing keep bringing up that is the main reason for the downfall, which comic store owners don't want to acknowledge.
I've been collecting comics since I was a little kid. When my mother would take me with her to the grocery store and I would be begging for something to take home, she would usually allow me to get a comic. They were cheap and would keep me busy for a few hours, since she knew I would dig out my other ones and check out the whole story. Much better than buying some cheap toy that would fall apart in the car before we got home. The main takeaway there, was like you brought up, comics were CHEAP! I mean, they've always cost a little bit, a dime in the 1940's was a bigger deal than it is now. But they used to be an impulse buy that was not too much of a stretch on the finances.
Now, the problems facing modern comics are multiple. 1) They are far to expensive for impulse buying. 2) The over-proliferation in theaters of all of these comic movies has caused a burn-out and now that's not a safety net for the books themselves as it has been for the last decade. But the major issue is 3) The places to pick up comics is too limited.
You hit the nail on the head when you said that it's too hard for people to find comics now. In the old days, you could find them in spinner racks in grocery stores, drug stores, gas stations, etc. And a lot of kids would pick them up just because they were colorful and their parents didn't mind getting a comic too much because they were fairly cheap by inflation standards. But the early 1990's saw the rise of a comic specialty shop or ten in every city and town because of the big Comic Boom that came from the death of Superman. A slow news week created a new stock market for the masses in comics. Or so they thought. But every bubble busts and so did that one! Hard! But it HAD got a lot of young people into the hobby and the effects were slow to wear off.
In their original days, comic shops were mainly a place you went to buy back issues or books you couldn't get in the spinner racks. And by the 1980's the manufacturers were trying to work with comic shops by letting them get their books a couple weeks ahead of the grocery stores. The proliferation of comic shops in the early 90's caused a lot of the grocery and drug stores to take out their spinner racks because no one was buying comics in them. So, the hobby became a niche for people that were already into collecting. The problem being that you're not getting a steady stream of young people getting into the hobby because it's so readily available. Now, you just have a lot of people that are aging out of the hobby, people that are getting out because they don't like the politics of the comics companies now, and a few die-hard collectors who hold on until they pass and their treasures get sold for peanuts at estate sales.
Before I get to the final crux, I'll say the other big problem is the internet. I don't feel like digital will ever really kill the market. Collectors don't like it because they have no value other than for reading. Which is enough for me, but a lot of modern collectors just buy books for grading or value. A lot don't even open their books. I've seen a few of these bringing in their kids to the comic shops and badgering their kids on which "keys" to buy but them screaming at them to be careful and not to open the books. Oh, yeah. Those kids are going to hate the hobby because their parents were so caught up in it. Or at least some will. Anyway, in this current post-Covid society, people don't feel the need to go to stores as much, and just buy their comics from the Big Two or Three comic shops like Mile High and Mycomicshop.com. I mean, why pay store prices to your local shop when you can get them discounted online from the warehouses? I know all the comic shops keep trying to get this business, but when you're just having a storefront where you spend all of your time on the computer with Ebay, you might as well not have the storefront.
AND, my main point. Patient Zero. The comic store. Modern comic store owners love to cry and complain about how their business is dying and what can possibly be done to save it? But the moment you mention that comics would benefit from being more easily accessible, they shut you down quick! They've had a strangle hold on the hobby for a couple of decades, and even though business is drying up, they don't want any competition. Like I said before, back in the day a good chunk of your big cities would have a comic shop. Usually that serviced an entire area. Big cities would probably have several. But in this day and age, with fewer new people dropping into the hobby, business is winding down. But these people have no desire to share any profits, even if they were increase due to more people coming into the scene. They have forgotten their reason for existence. Comic stores came into being because collectors wanted to be able to go get back issues for their collections and wanted a place to do it other than a playground trading with their friends. Now, the comic shops I know put their back issues in dark basements or grimy attics and flood their shelves with Funko Pops, because "that's where the money is!" Not knowing that historically, this was the beginning of the end of shops. This happened in the late 90's with the American Comics chain. Comics dried up after the Death of Superman bubble burst and American became AnotherUniverse.com and focused most of their energy on action figures. That fad died away in a couple of years, since toys have their own shops, and now where is AnotherUniverse.com?
So, now, yes, I believe we could be at the end of the rope. Manga does well because you can get it in most bookstores fairly easily. And trade paperback and omnibus collections can be found in most bookstores. But the high prices make them a little daunting. I'm not sure the trade format could really save comics by becoming the new format. A lot of creators can barely handle getting out a monthly thirty page title. Not sure most would do a book every six months and make sure to get it out. We could truly see Marvel or DC drop their comic lines in the next few years because there's just no market for it anymore.
In closing, I think it's ironic that back in the 90's, if a book had sales less than 20,000 units, Marvel would cancel it. Now, they celebrate if one of their top books can even crack the 20,000 units ceiling. Sad days for comic collectors...
I'm old enough to remember feeling horrified when the Green Goblin killed Gwen Stacy in the original edition of The Amazing Spider-Man no. 121. It's kinda sad to learn the death of a prominent character is now a common gimmick to boost sales.
Thanks for your long awaited video. It's a sad fact that these are hard times for the Comic Book industry
Most comic dealers that aren't doing the toys and games thing are making more money selling gold, silver, and bronze age books.
Also, I forgot to mention that I have wanted to get one of those spinner racks for a long time. Always on the lookout 😂
I have been on the same quest!!😢
I got my buddy looking for originals. He works for Morphy’s auction house. Original racks are hard to find.
Even WalMart has Manga now. Not much but their book section is also tiny.
Yes, you can pretty much find manga in major box stories.
Diamond distributors pretty much laid the foundation for this a long time ago.
Hello Michael Hello. I hope someday you will say a few words about Archie Comics.
Maybe they could sell the floppies in black and white, go back to newsprint, and drop the prices considerably? I might start buying them again, but they're too expensive now.
I agree on comics not dying. But "waiting for the trade" already kills too many series. Big companies don't care a bit about anything except revenue. If they can pay less to writers and artists, to them that is great. They are not interested in quality and very much not interested in anything new. Unless it sells really well. Floppies sell horrendously and far too many series get the axe upon their neck even if it is great storytelling. But the sales are " not good enough". So less comics. Because if you go straight to trade, it is not "it better sell" it is " this MUST sell". A Futura I do not expect as I love comics.
I think that manga will be the future of American comics
It’s the politics and too much of multiverse and all kinds of incarnations oversaturation. We need something new and exciting and without agenda.
Got no comic shops in my local town, for me, if I pick up a 'floppie' then it will be in London. Prefer to buy them in collected editions. Perhaps at some point, the old style comics will stop or will be extremely limited and we will just pick up the stories in 250+ page graphic novels. Perhaps DC / Marvel should release them in smaller book format / black and white like mangas ? I would buy the Marvel tales in that. Also, would love to see more variety. I prefer the manga stories about problems on a tennis court or issues in a family, stories in a hospital etc over any of the super hero comics now. I miss that in the UK comics, used to have zillions of those stories in small format paperbacks in black and white.
I used to buy comics at about 5p a time, could buy 20 or so a month easily (about £1), that now would be £100. It meant I could easily explore all kinds of comic titles, didn't always stick to the Fantastic Four etc. Ok, the paper quality wasn't great but I still liked the comics I bought.
Someone a while back (can't recall who) suggested a 2-tier system...basic, cheaper comics printed with glossy covers, with interior pages on far cheaper newsprint - to get kids reading again. Then, for the over 25s, the prestige graphic novel/trade collections on better quality paper. These would be for the collectors, or people who simply can pay more. This way, more actual comics could be read + consumed each month.
Would make sense, like the bluray / dvd / 4K market, a basic release at a lot cheaper price and then a collector's edition with the booklets, posters, the extras, top quality comic paper etc
Don't really see this happening because to get to the trade stage that's ready to be released you need comic books anyway. You could look at them as the chapters that the artist has available because it takes a long time to draw this stuff. Manga's have the equivalent of comics also but they are released in magazine format such as Weekly Shonen Jump and collected in manga Tankobon format. In a lot of ways the mangas you see are like a version of trade paperback format. So to get to that TPK or manga stage you need the material released as chapters anyway. You could look at them as the artist saying "this is what I've got so far" but you're right they should be selling American comics in more locations like they used to news stands grocery stores ect ..
I don't know that I'd ever buy a floppy comic over a trade. As a relatively newer comic reader, you just get a MUCH better valuation of what you spend to get the trade, and they are a lot easier to browse on a shelf and avoids the problem of trying to find a rarer issue.
Interesting discussion, from another fan who started off with spinner racks, bookstores, and a neighborhood comic shop (Tomorrow Is Yesterday, named for the classic Star Trek episode). These days, the comic shop is closed, I buy only compilation collections of my favorites, and my kids and all their friends are reading manga. It's also interesting to me when I ask them what appeals to them in manga over comics, it's never artwork, format, etc. They always say, first thing, that the manga writers know how to tell a compelling story. That always sticks out for me, as an older fan of older comic books.
The #1 change was completely outside comics’ control: the consolidation of magazine distributors in the 1970s. The decade started with about 20, and finished with about 3. Without the opportunities created by competing distributors jockeying for shelf space, everything changed. It killed off a bunch of sci fi/fantasy mags and weakened all the survivors. Same deal in every genre. Magazines went bigger, slicker, and with more curated ads because people still willing to buy them liked it that way. It’s all the story of adapting to a changed market.
Thats a great point! I'm also a reader of SF mags and I am more worried about that industry than comics.
Funny, but while I usually pick up the trades or omnis anymore, the ads in the floppies were what always took my back, nostalgicly. They really placed the time when I first read the story at the forefront.
Video games and smartphones have further decimated the audience for comic books.
As a kid growing up in the seventies comics have indeed changed. Can comic books survive as an art and an entertainment for an audience at its current price point? I say no. Is there a solution out there that will save the art form? I say there is. I will get to that in a while.
First before I get to my solution I want to state the problems as I see them. These will be in no particular order,as in one being more to blame than another.
1. The price of today’s comic book is entirely too high for what the consumer gets in my opinion.Yes, the paper quality has indeed improved but again, in my opinion, the overall quality of the product continues to plummet.
2.There is too much pandering to specific groups that I believe turn many n these groups off.
Wonder Woman has sold for decades with its themes of fighting for justice and female empowerment . Let’s say for example that it leans so far on the theme of female empowerment, that it begins to show males in an all too unsympathetic light. Not only would you lose your male readership, you would also lose a significant portion of the females who love them. I don’t know what Wonder Woman is like these days. I haven’t read her in some time but she has endured because of her overall popularity, not because the title catered solely to a female audience. There was something in there that catered to both. Birds Of Prey on the other hand , I believe ,may have pandered too much to one audience it may have turned both male and female readers off. Stan Lee took great pains to not get too political while remaining relevant. I don’t think anyone would accuse him of pandering., while seeking to attract the audience, to Ms. Marvel or She Hulk. There must be something in your product that gives it wide appeal.I think too much pandering is going on in order to attract certain audiences that hurts the industry.
3.Too little is paid to the writers and artists etc.in order for them to make a decent living from the craft.
For many the pay is too low to support a family, much less themselves. The dream of making a living with comics being the main source of income for many, is just that, a dream.Forcing many who are supremely talented to look elsewhere to express their artistic talents. That leaves people,who in my opinion, who are less talented, in many cases because the talent pool has dried up. To be sure this has been a problem for decades and is not a new thing,but now the the industry is reaping what it has sown for itself as far as pay goes.
Is there a solution? I believe there is. Neal Adams talked about this years ago This is by no means my original idea. In order for this to work however one form of the comic medium will certainly have to die so that the other can flourish. The comic book has to die! That time has indeed come. The Graphic Novel must become the vehicle for American comics. Look at how popular Manga has become on these shores. I believe comics lovers would indeed gladly pay for more story, more pages, more quality content. That means that the workload will be heavier on writers and artists. The product will cease to be monthly or bi-monthly. With more time to work on a project though the quality will improve.The Internet is here advertising for graphic novels needs to be heavy on the Internet. Will this hurt comic book store? I am not sure? I believe most of the income generated by these businesses nowadays, is generated by something other than comics, such as, T-shirts, etc I would be willing to bet most of the comics sold in these stores that generate real income are, back issues, reprints, omnibuses,graphic novels, not new comics. comics professionals need to be paid more in order to make a real living. That is a must. More pay, will attract better talent. Pandering must stop. What will happen to Marvel in DC and the other companies? They will either adapt the graphic novel as the primary comics form and pay professionals more or die! Someone believe me will fill the void !
Clearly there is a concern, more and more this subject arises and more frequently, if there wasn't a problem more and more of us wouldn't speculate. I think if the trend continues, we are looking at a change coming, like fate of the mass paperback, the trade will dominate the format.
For a few years now the titles I followed from the big two has dwindled due to, price, value, erosion of material quality, reboot reboot reboot erasure, and the bastardisation of intellectual properties. Collected editions of vintage and back catalog material will soon be all I purchase.
Oh floppies, how I love you! But I had to stop too - about six months ago. They shall wait, slightly bent, glossy, and unfortunately priced, to be read. Weird ads. Jumpy stories. Piled together so each gets its partners bend. They will be there, but fewer, perhaps more select.
I buy comics from my comic book store I've been going to for almost a decade, depending on what's out changes how many I get. I don't think that the single issue comics will ever totally go, I know there's plenty of collectors who want these types of comics. The one thing I do not want to see is a digitization of comics, I need to have either the single issues or the trades I refuse to read comics on a phone or something. I do think that it would be better for comics if they start being distributed in more places again like they were up to the 90s or early 2000s when I would get spawn at my local grocery store
I prefer trade paperback but the price is definitely a barrier to entry for the target audience (children / young adults)
Great topic Michael! I think there will always be a demand for comic books, no matter how small that demand is. I actually prefer to read them in omnibi format.
I don't buy the single book issues, but I do get the collected editions. if comics want to boost its sales then it needs to take notes from manga
Ooh tough subject. Having four older kids myself I can say though they enjoy the occasional comic book they are more into Manga. The book format for the equivalent of $10 is a better value and more convenient format.
The time for some struggling lines to switch to the book/manga format may be here already 🤷🏻♂️.
I agree, there's virtually so many different archs and canons for each major superhero character at this point, that it is almost unfollowable as someone trying to pick up a comic off of the shelf at just any store. They've lost grounding on their main identity that made them distinct and had their followings in the first place. And rely soulely on recognition of their name/brand.
Then they introduced the concept of "Multiverses" in Marvel which is just a shallow way to justify this type of writing where anything goes. You can have a dozen different plots and movies and comic publications that are a hodgepodge of the most absolutely whackiest story archs that anyone who watched the movie, played a video game, can't just walk into a comic shop anymore and be on the same page very easily any longer.
As an industry, it's in a horrible / disgusting state. What needs to happen is the big 2, plus some of the mid sized companies need to go out of business and the small Indies who still care and have passion and respect for the medium need to grow. Being someone who purchased over 130 titles a month at my prime. I can count on one hand the ones I've found worth purchasing in today day and age.
I rode my Mongoose bike down to the shop with loose change in my pocket, and that's how I kept up with the Avengers, Doctor Who, and Godzilla through the 70s and 80s. The Dark Horse comics were always something special. I also remember waiting for each new installment of the short Vision solo run, who is my favorite superhero. In the 90s I got into experimental horror comics like Verotik. But like you, in the last thirty years I have turned into the guy that buys the collections to see what's going on in comics these days.
Hmmm. I'm one of those who've stopped buying comics altogether. The last "comic" type book I read was the manga Death Note (highly recommend it!). I still have a bookcase full of unread comic collections. Maybe it's time to sell them?
A switch to trade paperbacks could happen extremely quickly. For manga, the industry was putting out floppies from 1987 (when Viz started publishing manga) to about 2002 or 2003 (when Tokyopop dropped floppies converting to all graphic novel versions). Nearly all of the manga industry quickly went back, renegotiated their contracts with the Japanese publishers, and followed Tokyopop's example within about a year or two. in early 2002, most manga came out in comic shops as floppies. By early 2004 hardly any did. It changed amazingly fast.
Have to agree with GentleReader re distribution. Damn I miss those SF mags. They may as well be completely gone. MysteryandMayhem seems to be forgetting that SF cons were first and the huge bleed over from SF fans/writers to comics. Schwartz Weisenger etc. Did I mention how much I miss those SF mags?
The problem no one is mentioning is that "floppies" are how people learn the trade. The discipline of producing a monthly comic hones the skills of all concerned. A quick glance at Windsor-Smiths Conan run is an adequate demonstration.
We can't afford to lose floppies.
I also grew up in a time when you could buy floppy comics in corner stores, gas stations, and grocery stores.
Like you mentioned, now, you can only find them at comic shops and online.
One of the problems with floppies today is thr price. It is ridiculous that they are charging four, five, and more dollars for a single floppy comic.
There are a handful of floppies that are a decent price, the Spawn comics come to mind; still at the $2.99 price point. (Thank you Image and Todd McFarlane.)
I think eventually, floppy comics will die. Unless they can lower the price, and get them back into other stores. (Which I don't see happening.) And that is sad. Because as a kid, going to the local corner store in walking distance from my house to buy Spawn, X-Men, and other comics was a highlight of my childhood.
I agree with everything you said. I think you hit it all on the head, with your , yes, I will say it, 'astute' observations on all of of the reasons as to why floppy comics are going and what will happen to them.
(If we get Roger and Morn from DS9 together, no one will ever get a word in.)
Im going to date myself very badly…BUT…I remember as a kid buying comics for .25 - .35 cents each. I could go to Ben Franklins or the locally owned 5 & dime and buy 2 or 3 comics and still have change left to buy a handful of 3 & 5 cent candy. A kid could spend a Saturday afternoon reading comics and eating candy for a buck. At today’s prices that would take at least $20 although with adjusting for inflation comics should only cost about $1.75 today.
Ben Franklin's! There's a step back! 😄
I've never been into mainstream comics, but have enjoyed several indie comics. I found them through meeting the artists. And man, are they struggling. One problem with the industry struggling is that fewer artists (and inkers and writers) really can make a living creating comics... so fewer artists develop deep skills, and fewer even try to, instead pursuing other outlets.
It's the creative equivalent of brain drain when a state is failing.
Comic books today are often boring… lots and lots of dialogue… not that much action… often they are written by authors who self insert identity politics instead of having a good old fashioned fight..very expensive for what they are selling… it’s nowhere near as good as we had it.
The first comics were 64 page anthologies which featured multiple series. I think you could do something similar with trades: DC, for instance, could produce comics the same way they always have, but package several of them together in a themed trade that could come out monthly or quarterly. As an example, you might have a thick trade anthology featuring separate comic book length tales of various heroes, or of darker characters, or of fantasy characters, the equivalent of several floppies under one cover. Then you could pluck out the individual features periodically for solo trades, pretty much the same pattern that now exists, using the same production schedule.
I miss the old DC 80 page giants that were 25 cents. As a kid these would keep me busy for an entire week. You got old reprints of stuff you thought you would never see. I feel bad that the children of today will never have the fun of going through a well mixed spinner, finding thta exciting Jim Steranko cover, or thta fantastic Neal Adams cover, or the classic Dell comics with picture covers, not to mention the Gold Key paintred covers. Ahhhh the days.... Thanks as always Michael!
I guess you and I have to consider ourselves lucky that we were around for the greatest era of comics. I think comic books, as we know them, are on their way out. Comic cons aren't even focused on comics anymore. It's all about celebrities, movies, and cosplay nowadays.The fact that comics started the whole geek culture that predominates everything these days is totally ignored. I miss the old spinner racks!
It’s surprising but .35 cents in 1978 would be almost $2 today. So the price of a comic has doubled in regards to adjusted purchasing power. That says more about the economy today and expendable income than comic books. Comics have to compete with other choices people have, such as phone apps, cable subscription services, but video games have improved as well, but more entertaining.
I just hope it never turns all digital. Music and movies are moving towards it. Maybe only us oldies are still buying physical copies. As to comics, it's losing popularity because the comics are aiming at older readers with more disposable income. The best age to get a person started is when they're young but the price is not letting them. Does a 9 year old kid have 4-5 dollars to spend on comics?
Censorship is scary with digital stuff. Physical copies can't ever be censored.
85 or 86 first time I went to a comic shop. Saw someone’s secret wars at 14 yrs old and became obsessed. X men and suicide squad were favourites that I read every issue for a few yrs straight
Yeah. When I was a kid, ardently buying my monthly Marvels in the late '60s at Al's Party Pantry and Sav-on Drug Store, I could afford every title they put out for less than two bucks a month. A perfect amount for a kid like me with my allowance of 6 quarters a week and a growing baseball card habit.
Maybe monthly titles all go to Print on Demand. I suspect that either Marvel or DC are going to end their monthly lines within 2 years and simply make their money on licensing and reprints. They don't really want to deal with consumer demands or market trends. They just want payment NOW!
I stopped reading monthlies near the end of my schooling. At that point, I had a stack of issues I had not read and could no longer justify buying them. I was in a local comic shop for the first time in a while a week or so ago. I was surprised by the amount of manga. I appreciate having access to the stories and forms of other cultures. However, I really appreciate the American comic book. I'm not a huge D.C. fan. I started reading D.C. monthlies when 52 started. But, I cannot think that sepia toned Super Girl is a good idea. Your video has me considering ordering up an X-Men monthly again. There is something I enjoy about being able to step into a series and have a sense of what is going on almost immediately. It can be a source of comfort. I collect trades now too. One thing that might be lost if large scale distribution of monthlies goes away is the ability to experiment with new characters, stories, art, and crossovers. I've never been involved in the industry, but from my time reading, it appears like the editors would green light small projects and maybe have a larger name show up to push a few stories. This may have been how newer characters made it into the main stream. Without the ability to take risks each month, some of the artistic vibrancy of the medium may fade. I like the ability to purchase trades. But I can see how you have forecasted the demise of diversity in this piece. Small publishers should be able to release interesting stories. But, without the ability to reach even a medium sized audience the impact of the comic book culture will decrease. There are a number of digital products I've seen that have been successful. I've also followed a new comic book story release via a website. Perhaps patron style website monthlies might be successful? RPGs have had some success with patron backed independent content. Wolfgang Baur and the people at Kobold Press & OpenDesign have done wonders with that model.
Online is even more expensive because you have shipping cost as well.
For me, why i rarely buy comic books it, because most of them have stories in them which are to be continued. You need to buy the other one ...and the other one etc... to see what happens.
And i know they do that to keep buyers coming back... but it can also go the opposite way.. and specially for 'new' readers for that specific comic book.
I can't just buy a superman once in a while and have a whole story with an end.
But overall i love the floppy comics... so i hope they will not go away.
Manga in my country (The Netherlands) is btw not cheaper than comics. You can buy a new manga for about 9 - 12 euro's.
Pricing nowadays is too much to bear. Also, the quality is well below what it once was. The 90's were gritty and many will say that stories were too dark but I believe those were far more captivating than what comics have been the last 4-5 years. Lastly, oversaturation to me is too much. DC has a Batman problem and Marvel has a Wolverine problem. You add them into every team book or adding mini series after mini and it just gets tiresome.
IMO the traditional comic starting dying when they decided to stop writing for and marketing to kids.
I remember riding my balloon tired single speed bike, collecting glass soda bottles in my wire baskets. The go to Herman Drugs to buy several comics.
Western comics probably, but the chances I think are very low. Despite how crappy the business is, it's still a million dollar business with 2 big companies at the forefront. As long as they keep publishing I don't think the medium is gonna die out soon. Manga and Manhwa on the other hand I think it's still doing pretty well.
Comics will not go away forever. They will evolve into another medium. Paperbacks or graphic novel forms. Single issues have gotten a bit too expensive, tho. Dc just decreased their paper quality and raised the price.
The first place I bought a comic book was the Harvey Office Supply store which is a vacant lot now. The first books bought there was Metal Men#16 and a Giant Size Superboy!!!!!!!
Yes the Superman secret identity thing was definitely retconnned...now no one can remember Clark and Superman are the same guy thanks to Lex Luthor of all people..😅
Manga (most in black and white) is dominating everything so comics are clearly still popular.
The American comic industry is declining due to terrible corporate decisions.
How can they fail when marvel and DC movies rake in billions at the cinema it's criminal financial incompetence.
I know who Roger's daddy was. But who was his mummy :) ? I heard Roger wrote a song. It was a Wrap Song :) ! Now that was comic I thought :)
Doom! Doom! He says...
Ironic I'm watching this video the same day I decide to subscribe to Batman, Detective, Fantastic Four and Incredible Hulk! Getting them to Bangladesh could be tricky though. I do miss visiting physical comic book stores, I still remember my Empire Comics trips every week during my time in Rochester.
I could go on and on but will try to keep things short.
Floppy comics have become an art print. The cover has become the most important thing (especially with the take over of the grading market and ratio variant covers forcing stores to buy so many copies) and rarely the story moves books. Though the Marvel relaunch of Ultimate Spider-man seems to be moving books for both the story and the dozens and dozens of different covers. I will be picking up a trade eventually.
I pick up 20 to 30 floppies a month with a varying amount of trades. For years keep saying will only get Daredevil (I have a run of almost every issue since vol 1 issue 80) and do the trade wait. Unfortunately DC even with modern trades always seems to have some kind of issue if it isn't a book dealing with one of the Trinity or Sandman related.
Monthly comics and even toys have become an adult niche market because kids are happier with phones/tablets and the various aps. The device could have a huge buy in but in the end far less expensive.
My favorite comics were Batman, the Legion of Superheroes, Weird War, and the Unexpected 60s and early 70s versions
As a manga enthusiast, I wouldnt shed a tear for the loss of floppy comics. The epic collections are so cool and I'm happy they've continued.
I was priced out of single issues years ago. It’s a shame.
The Phillip Kennedy Johnson run of Superman is great you should check it out. Unfortunately DC took him off the book somewhat recently
No, while I think the 32 page magazine is on life support, tradePBKS will remain and fewer volumes will be published! It's the fault of the mainstream publishers by flooding the market with "product": good, bad and indifferent! Is it possible we'll see American magazines similar to Shonn Jump as "ntroductory" volumes w/ multiple characters per volume, sold mostly in bookstores and super markkets? Maybe.
I have a bunch of 80s comics in my parents garage. Today I mostly read webcomics. Achewood. Shortpacked. The Legendary Woodsman. Axe Cop. Dr.McNinja.
And so many other options for young people ... Good video MKV.
Personally I don’t collect single issues anymore because they don’t last more than 15 minutes. If and when they sell in collections that’s when I buy them because it actually lasts me a good while and I don’t have to worry about them being as fragile as they would be single issue
Last time I went to a comic store, I bought Milton Berle.
I for one hate those giant comic book compendiums that do not fit on a bookshelf. Manga has the advantage there. It's the size of a normal book.
It's a generational thing. I think you and I are both part of the spinner rack to DM generation. Manga is fresh and new (to us anyway)and not what your dad's reading. There's a big animation component and it's consistent. Now if every shop were smart, they need to carry everything. Some do. Locally I have two that do just that. Floppies, YA and Manga. I think a weekly shonen jump type format could work. Cheap thick bw anthologies with new characters and concepts. Take what you would release that week and collect it together.
Comic book shops have been dropping like flies in this area. Very sad. But when you think of the economics of it, I don’t know how any of them make money. Especially when they also consistently get screwed by people’s pull-lists that don’t get picked up. Maybe a shift to a small number of mega-comic shops would help…. I don’t know. Diamond also doesn’t make it easy for these guys… the legal case handing them a distribution monopoly was really flawed (as a legal matter), but that’s where it is, and it ain’t good for little shops.
And I don’t know what the answer is about production expense. A lot costs go into quality product the market expects today, so there’s a limit to how cheaply they can be sold. Buts it’s too much for a stack every month. I myself stopped with single issues years ago…. It just became too expensive of a habit.
Even though I didn't read comics and manga until I was much older, I wish I picked up some floppy comics when I was younger. However, I do love graphic novel omnibuses for comics like the hardcover ultimate editions of the 1984 TMNT series. However, I feel like comics would benefit more if they were made in a hardcover bind up like a junji ito short story collection manga. You can usually fit 12 short stories in a volume like that. I don't want comics to go extinct though, I just feel if the hard cover omnibus route it would be easier to keep track of the story that your keeping up with.🙂❤📚
Oh pisch. They said the same thing about 📼 VHS and ... Oh wait ... never mind.
Classics Illustrated comic books were my gateway into serious reading.I would read "The Time Machine" in comic book form, then I'd read the H. G. Wells book. Classics Illustrated even had a comic of "Caesar's Conquests". As far as I know, Classics Illustrated are no longer published. Sadly this may be eventually the fate of all comics
You might find e-copies of classic comics in Internet archive
I think floppies should be done away with. Just print them as books.
I could buy 4 comics a week with my lunch money back in the day
trade paperbacks are the future
The audience for super hero comic is diminishing. There hasn't been a substantive regeneration of readership in decades. Non super hero comics on the other hand are doing well. Maybe going the European route of publishing graphic novels. Ed Brubaker/Sean Phillips, for example, have an established audience who like their graphic novels like Reckless. Young people prefer Manga. Among my friends kids, they like the super hero movies, but won't read the comics. However, they do like manga, which they read digitially, and sometimes even buy the books. Doubt when they get older they'll want to read a Conan, FF, DD, or Batman omni or tpb. Likely after Generation X has died off there won't be much of an audience left for them
It's one of the few areas of the American economy where you have a duopoly with no real competitors (apart from manga). They have no new ideas or the will to try any, because they don't really need to. We've had wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Ukraine - but where are all the war comics? Where's the modern day version of 'Palestine' or 'Gorazde' by Joe Sacco? They've become safe, which means boring. Comics are just a side hussle for Marvel and DC, they will go eventually, which won't be a bad thing.
i like manga and American time books other I'm not a big collector or reader of them I do read some of them very few both are out of my price range right now
What do you mean "in ten years"?
SD wish they got popular again
For one thing, they're too expensive now. A single issue of a regular comic book shouldnt be more than $1.75. Especially since a lot of the artists are garbage and overall most comics are ao badly written these days. Theres also no more legit milestones or events to get excited over.
New art in that Supergirl bad, Conan book is Tarzan with different name.
I’ve never been much of a collector, so I’m quite content to read some of the older titles on my IPad. I’ll pay an annual fee to DC and Marvel to have access to their digital libraries. I also stopped buying comic books several years ago, as woke culture took hold of the industry.
Indie comics are the best imo. They dominate Marvel and DC in terms of storytelling and good character writing.
With releases of super hero comic character movies released every month, these characters are going nowhere. I think the two media forms go hand in hand. One washes the others back. I think there is a need for all. Collectors want the floppies. They will buy them. These characters deaths remind me of soap operas. They are dead one minute and alive the next.
I agree with you. High prices and wokeness will destroy comic books. It is very sad. My comic store closed and there is only one more where I live.
A lot of young people just read the comics for free on the Internet since they can't or won't pay for them.
I think so
Used to be you could subscribe to a comic like a magazine