The Legacy of 90's DC Comics
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- Опубліковано 20 гру 2022
- Connor and Harry discuss Mark Waid and Alex Ross’ epic capstone to DC Comics’ Dark Age, Kingdom Come (1996), and the history of the creative highs and Rob-Liefeld-lows of the comics industry in the 1990s.
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90s DC - “Dare you enter my magical realm?”
Hearing that Harry has been reading Berserk makes me hope for a video breakdown on the manga. It's a truly epic tale that has influenced games, other manga, comics, shows, and films for decades and always deserves a good look. Bonus points if we can get a disgusted Callum face at Griffith's later actions.
THE ECLIPSE!!!
@@gunsharck If they cover it, just a video titled that with no context would be hilarious.
“Hate is a place where a man who can’t stand sadness goes.”
For as much as I love berserk, I lament the death of the author.
Now we will never have a true ending, but at best a bastardized version like in the Dune saga.
@@atraxian5881 Kentaro Miura's death was a true tragedy. I don't want to call what we're getting a bastardized version (yet) because I'm willing to give his best friend who is heading it the benefit of the doubt along with his assistants. I know it won't truly be Miura's vision because only he could do that, but Kouji Mori is taking up his lifelong friend's pen to see his life's work completed and there's something wholesome in that.
Im so happy that beserk managed to reach out to the lotus eaters
The Knightfall and Death of Superman arcs are some of my favorite comic book runs.
Same here. They were among the first American comics I read translated in my language. Imagine my impressionable 8 year old shock!
And to top that, marvel launches fatal attractions shortly after and nearly kills Wolverine!
Death of superman started out brilliantly but afterwards dc had no f**king clue what they were doing. Knightfall was brilliant too apart from the magic crap. Jean Paul battering the f**k outta Bane was cool
I love 90s Superboy
Me too
Yeah I'm not going to lie I really like the scene where he's dying and Lois his arms and he's asking if the civilians are safe. That just sums up Superman to me. 🥺
When Harry mentioned Berserk I knew exactly wear he was going only question what part is he at (and yes a video on Berserk would be great)
I bought the death of Superman trilogy a little while ago, as I hadn't read it since I was a kid in the early 90s, and I am still bowled over by just _how good it is._ I'm not a big comic book person, but I would strongly recommend it to anyone with even just a passing interest.
These days I look at comics with their non-binary characters, and 'heroes' who are literally called Snowflake and Safespace, and I wonder how any child could see them as aspirational. When I was a kid I dreamed of having muscles on muscles on muscles, so I could toss around cars like they were shuttlecocks.
I wonder what sort of child is given enough pocket money to be able to afford them!
The biggest hole though is WHERE THE F**K ARE THE JLA????
@@gunsharckthey were there. They got demolished by Doomsday. The JLA at the time wasn't the one you're imagining. It's people like booster gold, blue beetle, bloodwynd(secretly martian manhunter), fire, and ice. Basically the c listers. The iconic JLA hadn't been a team since Crisis on Infinite Earths rebooted everything.
@@crimsonking440 So you're going for semantics? Gunshark should have said "Where was Flash, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern?" The characters are still around even if they're not in the League.
@@boobah5643
Oh sorry, when someone asks a question I answer the one they fucking asked. It's not my job to interpret what people REALLY meant.
No matter what, i will always be a fan of green lantern. Blackest night is awesome, and the animated stuff is the best.
Edgy is WAY LESS cringe compared to what moralism (mainly the left one in recent years) did in the media.
I got so sick of superhero comics in yeh nineties because they were this certain type of wanky violence that is drawn and written by these nerds that haven't ever seen violence but seemed to be dreaming up these sick scenes that were devoid of imagination other than violence. They seem almost dirty. They had very little connection with real life.
There were other much better 1990s comics like Bone, Eight ball and Hate. Three examples of comics way better than Marvel or D.C.
@@MicahMicahel >They had very little connection with real life.
I'm not into comics and saw it as rival of manga but I think that's the best part.
REAL LIFE SUCKS.
There is a reason why ISEKAI flourish today with edgy and lewd stuff.
@@MicahMicahel Ever read Todd McFarlanes Spawn?
A personal favourite of mine.
@@NTBXP1 I think the issue here is not that it's unrealistic, but isn't immersive; it does not follow the rules of its' universe or otherwise does not establish them well. I wasn't around during that time so this is just an assumption, but it seems to plague even more recent works.
@@MicahMicahel Then you were clearly reading the worng 90's comic books.
Hearing you guys talk shop about comics and the artists that made em was a great treat. Thanks for the insight.
I swear Harry cultivates more respect with every video I see him in.
Stop swearing
@@natmanprime4295 Never!
Punisher 2099 sums up the silliness of the 90s. Brillaint Satire.
Speaking of comic deaths and rebirths, do they even hold funerals for Jean Grey anymore?
Im almost proud I immediately compared the Wonder woman story to Berserk because that's the pinnacle of THAT KIND of scene.
The "Death of Super Man" was so awesome
Yes, rape in the 90s was something we could talk about, that is how we sensibilized people about it. And it was about real raping. Not playing grabass at an office christmas party in 1963.
These two sagas were among the first American comics I read translated in my language.
And to top that, shortly after, I get fatal attractions where marvel nearly kills Wolverine!
Imagine my impressionable 8 year old shock!
Really enjoyed these comic book talks recently posted. Keep em coming, lads! They're a real treat to listen to
"A 22 page wonder woman rape scene"
No thanks Mark
Your discussions on comics are brilliant, keep it up.
With the Berserk r*pe scene after reading it I put down the series for a number of years before eventually going back to it, but I was not nearly as connected to it afterwards.
"The berserk r*pe scene" do you have the slightest idea of how little it narrows down?
DC was my favorite in the 1980's, 1990's and early 2000's with Sandman, Lucifer, Killing Joke, Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Transmetropolitan, etc.
Still like Dark Horse for it's run on the Star Wars comics.
Dark Horse SW was truly great, except their last Star Wars run before Disney acquisition, when Leia magically became the bestest starfighter pilot and master strategist of the rebellion, and Luke and Han were delegated to unruly idiot category. Dark Horse imperial characters like renegade imperial guardsman Kir Kanos and James Bond of the Empire, Jahan Cross, were also my favorites of the whole franchise.
Dark empire trilogy, shadows of the empire, Thrawn Trilogy are far better than ANY Disney shite
@@gunsharck You don't have to debate me on that one. I already know.
5:47 I would to see a video of you guys doing a breakdown of Berserk. It’s incredible.
Shazam going crazy is such a cool story in Kingdom Come
Captain Marvel mate
Better than snowflake and safespace
Eugh, getting a eulogy from Billy boy and Killary. The only thing that drags down the death of Superman.
The idea of Azrael sounds a lot like the concept of The Elite vs Superman: show the fans that wishing for their hero to become "darker" is not a good idea.
Yeah over the years they changed him from religious zealog to more conflicted holy knight. Which was a great change if you ask me.
5:17
Absolutely Based
Hope these two get round to the politics of Beano & Dandy.
These kids didn't think to get an old-timer like Gary (Nerdrotics) or Az (Heelvsbabyface) to comment on what comics were like back then? They were probably in elementary school at the time...
Sargon was on FNT maybe one of these guys will come one. They know a lot about the 90s run of the comics would be interesting to hear them chat with Gary about these runs
When I was a kid DC was mildly conservative and Marvel was squishy liberal.
Shout out to the Jim Balent era of 90s Catwoman.....edgy?....possibly. Sexy?.......ohhh hell yes!
A Jim Balent Catwoman omnibus is high on my wishlist
@@Con_Tomlinson DC has already released books 1 and 2 of that run....i'm hoping that they release book 3 and onto 4 as some of the best Catwoman stories are in the 97 to 98 era.
They did the edgy good sometimes.
There was a site called 'Is wolverine still dead?' talking about all the comics he was in, etc... and mentioned the # of days that Wolverine was dead... there was a very-similar site for DC comics, don't remember the name though.
"making Batman darker and more edgy" 🤣 ITS ABOUT A MAN RUNNING AROUND IN A SILLY HAT AND A CLOAK WITH HIS UNDERPANTS ON THE OUTSIDE, AND EVERYONE HAS TO PRETEND THAT HE'S LIKE A BAT
I generally stayed away from DC during the 90s, with the exception of the Kingdom Come miniseries.
When comics took risks.
technically this trend started in the 80s
DC wasn't "edgy" I feel like DC was doing books to do satirical takes on the trends at Image and Marvel. I only realized that Knightffall was really about violence .
The 90s get a bad rap because most people were Marvel guys or were into the Image boom and those were the most famous comics, but the 90s, aside from a few turds, were genuinely one of the best eras for DC. It's mostly remembered for The Death of Superman and Knightfall but in the late 90s their universe thrived with AMAZING stuff like Waid's Flash, Morrison's JLA, PAD's Young Justice, Robinson's Starman (a REAL masterpiece not talked enough nowadays sadly) and lots of fantastic graphic novels, among others. The indie scene was also thriving with stuff like Madman, Astro City, Alan Moore's Supreme and Sin City, just to name some. The later part of the decade was a fantastic time to read comics, but the only thing people remember are the Rob Liefeld drawings (because yes, finding a good Marvel comic in that period is really hard, the only exceptions are Waid's Captain America and PAD's Hulk) and the extreme Image stuff.
As much as you guys at the end downplay the captain america bit I remember that being in the news when i was young and ofc not knowing what i know now i was a bit surprised that he was dead
Mark Millar....Ug. He's been on my personal blacklist ever since his Ultimate X-Men made me hate the X-Men. I don't care how acclaimed his other stories are, I don't need that kind of grime in my life. Not surprised to hear what he proposed for Wonder Woman...
AY UP LOTUS EATER'S
Mark Millar was great! I loved his "ultimates" series
Kinda completely neglecting DC's "alternative" creator-owned imprint Vertigo there.
The Martial Law and Watchmen comics were great
I'm not against shock value, I enjoyed The Boys and Crossed (such a extremely different take on the zombie genre), but I can see why it can be annoying. The rape scene in Kick-Ass 2 was completely unnecessary, at least the meh movie made fun of it.
The Aut(istic) Right
Everyone got better
Mark Millar wanted to make the Irreversible of comics.
Yep, have you read the woke’d take on his story lol
When it comes to comics, what is it with "Miller"s!?
And cool.
I hate to be that guy, but... really? "The Raep of Wonder Woman"? The "Death of Superman" at least implied some level of dignity. But that? No thank you, sir.
That doesn't sound ANYTHING like the Wanted movie, which I really enjoyed it for what it was.
I love Connor, he's become one of my favorite Lotus Eaters, but I will NEVER understand his tastes sometimes. "Identity Crisis" was awful, for example.
That said, I was one of those kids who was PISSED when Bruce chose Azrael over the rest of the Batfamily and hated the whole Knightfall series. Shame they never let us READERS know that they were intentionally doing it to repudiate the edginess, because knowing that now makes me want to give it a shot.
Not against edgy or sensetive scenes but 22 pages could be a little much for a DC comic 😅
9:00 pun intended?
..cough..cough.. "Nerds".
;)
Nightfall was great. Have the original series too. Collected.
A contemplation on Tank Girl would be interesting.
And of 2000AD.
(Collected both myself, I'm old enough to have gotten them as released through a newsagents.)
90s is what the 2000-2020 but with poc
Hal Jordan was possessed by Parallax
That was a retcon by Geoff Johns though, until GL Rebirth Hal just had went nuts and turned evil
That wasn't established until a massive retcon in the 2004 miniseries Green Lantern Rebirth. In Emerald Twilight, Zero Hour, Final Night, and Day Of Judgment, Hal Jordan was driven mad by the loss of Coast City (which happened during Reign Of The Supermen, at the hands of Mongul and the Cyborg Superman), and his attempt to recreate Coast City, where he was reprimanded for using his ring for personal gain. He literally wipes out the Green Lanterns and becomes Parallax (though his shattered ring is reassembled and given to Kyle Rayner to become the new and only Green Lantern). In Zero Hour, Hal attempts to rewrite the entire universe in his own image. In Final Night, he gives up his Parallax powers to reignite the Sun after it was extinguished by the Sun-Eater, dying in the process. In Day Of Judgment, his soul is joined with the Spectre. This whole series of events was retconned in GL Rebirth.
Hal is more like Kirk.. a tragic hero..
Kyle Rayner is the best GL, change my mind
No one got hurt in the drawing of comics. This kind of edgy is enjoyable for some. Edit: adults depicted in comics only.
Best way to give Wonder Woman a weakness, a child she loves, a mother would do anything to protect her child.
Not every mother is like that though
@@Hutchdh Diana would be she very much would be.
13:05
And then in 2008 history repeated itself with Batman RIP and Damian Wayne as the new Robin lol
Nobody liked his character from the start but he lasted a good few years before they killed him off.
Berserk is great
DC being edgy in the 90's?
*laughs in Image Comics
If DC allowed Wonder Woman to get R-worded, there would've been no coming back. Feminists would've had a field day and the company would've died.
So progressive.
I like edgy but Jesus Christ did they apparently go off the reservation of tolerable.
Ya'll should definetly check out the old Star Wars Legends comics. Legacy, KotoR, Dawn of the Jedi, Tales of the Jedi, and Clone Wars, especially. Some of that 90s edge did bleed into them, but they were still golden regardless. Certainly better then any of the Disney movies.
You guys think i'd make money selling those? I've got all of them, that's when I bought comics. Don't care about comics today.
You've just put me off Mark Millar
Soft as 💩 you are pal
@@gunsharck Oh good, another laptop hardboy
Let's be fair: all comics were edgy in the 90s
Don’t these guys hate the idea of AI generated porn yet they’ve both read multi page rape scenes in comic books?
Having wonder woman raped is horrendous and I don't want to see that for her. I could see how it could make a good story for another character but not 22 pages of rape. That's unnecessary and extremely excessive.
Started fridging women
I assume
solid writer
I’m glad that they didn’t do the Wonder Woman Mark Millar story. No good. Disgusting.
Millar is one of many, many writers who substitute shock-value and disgust for a lack of creative talent. That generation pretty much ended comics for me.
Pre-90s comics are fantastic. They can be subtle, funny, artistic & inspirational. Most comics during & after this era are just overrated garbage. Race to bottom & infantile subversion disguised as art.
For me, Art is ultimately how clever you can be within a given set of constraints, if you're forced to descend to subversion for the sake of it, you've already lost. Any idiot can merely defile a thing just to shock people. Anybody could have come up with the "idea" of Wonder Woman getting r@ped. A dumb child, sticking his finger up his nose could have come up with that. Most writers with any talent or self-respect just wouldn't.
Christ almighty mate he didn’t do it, he only suggested it. How soft are you???
@@gunsharck Which is why I said 'could have come up with the idea of', not 'wrote it'?
Are you literate, by which I mean, can you read the written word with any sort of proficiency?
6:00 I know comics are capable of telling a story with some dark themes but even on paper for a fucking super hero comic that just sounds like a horrible idea. Like holy shit.
10:10 These guys like Momoa, bet they haven't seen the footage of him being inappropriate with a little girl