Can You Win At Chess If You're Untalented?
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- Опубліковано 6 лют 2025
- Hikaru reacts to Fabiano's reaction to Dubov calling him untalented.
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#gmhikaru #chess #reaction
Garry Kasparov (who was supremly talented) said this about "hard work vs. talent": "the ability to work hard is itself a talent".
Exactly. How many people lack determination, discipline, focus and the ability to concentrate for long periods? Having that essentially makes you a very talented person. Unironically, it has much more applications than knowing how to play chess really well.
garry the greatest you right brohther but people forget about genetics
@@jamesking-lx9xj Yeah the reason one cannot become good at something is because of genetics. High quality copium
@@jamesking-lx9xj genetics, your upbringing, how people treat you growing up, how you treat others.. everything is taken into account
@@badcornflakes6374 great point! ,discipline .staying away from drugs, too much clubbing
Exceptional self discipline is also a talent. Some people seem to be naturally much better at that than others.
If I could choose any talent in this world to steal, it would be Cristiano Ronaldo's self discipline. With that I can do anything.
Yeah to get better at something you need discipline.
Discipline, work ethic, and determination are talents required to become elite in any field.
@@josephnewman713 of course but it's not something you either have or don't people have different levels of it. And when you're talking about chess GM's obviously most of them are very disciplined but compared to eachother one can be more disciplined
That is the laziest cope I have ever heard.
Fabi modulates his inner landscape more towards precision than intuition. You can even see it in his demeanour. In classical, that might be more beneficial.
what a lovely and astut observation... on the internet!
Increible observation indeed! It is almost poetic 😂❤
You must be a feeler .
@@anyadatzaklatszjutub how very unexpected :0
Dubov says "Magnus--sometimes you see those moments of genius and you can say to yourself, okay, I can not do this...I can work a lot, still I can not do this and it's not going to change." So he seems to be implying that "natural talent" means being able to come up with ideas during a game that no one else could come up with no matter how hard and how long they work. And I've heard Hikaru talk about Magnus in a similar way, for instance during the endgame of the famous game 6 of the World Championship match against Nepomniachtchi. What Magnus did in winning a seemingly dead-drawn endgame appeared even to other top players as something that was almost miraculous. So, perhaps, an exceptional ability to do lots more of those "miraculous" things during games than others can is what Dubov has in mind here.
Thanks alot for figuring it out doctor obvious.
@@zatoichimasseur6767 Nakamura didn't figured out emotional guy hahahahaha
True lol@@brenosantos4756
Then the likes of Morphy, Tal and Ivanchuk are the most talented ever.
You cant quantify that
We can only quantify rating
If magnus was not number 1 and the world champ and did the same thing in the endgame, no one(you or dubov)would be saying this
You can only quantify rating
It’s like in school when people would get mad at the student that gets an A on the exam as a “try hard” lol
Yeah yeah indeed lmao 😂😂
He actually meant it as a compliment so I see no problem in that
Lol I never met people like that. Sounds like losers.
I never went to a school where people got upsetty at people who got good grades lol. They would bully people with bad grades however
Then there's a deadbeat genius who doesn't study and always get +90%
Fabi top 5 in blitz rating though. I think its just a personality thing. Fabi looks like he works hard and Magnus looks like he does not.
Agreed.
It's cuz Fabi looks a little "nerdy" and Magnus looks a little "jock"ish.
exactly
Fabi works so hard that he forgot how to talk to girls and be sociable
@@albertofernandez5943 Fabi certainly has no sociability issues. Maybe you have not seen him interact with people?
People are a bit harsh on Dubov about this. In context he just wishes he could work as hard as Fabi as he thinks he could be as good as Fabi with that work.
But he did not say it like that. We cannot know what he really meant.
It's still inane. It implies Fabi is working harder than everyone around him by a wide margin, which is an insult to the other top players.
It just seems like Dubov believes he's seen through Fabi's game and imagines to himself that he could be Fabi if he just worked harder. Like an excuse to justify to Dubov's ego that there's a world where he's a top player instead of stuck on the fringes.
It would be even worse. So he says he is not number 2 in the world just because he doesnt want to study.
@@lostblue5651 why would rhat be worse?
He says: I know I can't be like Magnus, but for sure I would be better than Fabi if I could just be bothered to put in the work.
I have always found it borderline insulting when people call me talented at something that I have worked hard to be good at.
That's interesting because I would personally find the inverse to be more insulting. I would certainly perceive someone calling me an untalented hard worker as implying that they could be as good as me at anything if they bothered trying.
I get constant reminders that people worked hard for years to become complete assholes
whats funny is that this is the complete opposite. people believe dubov is insulting fabi for saying he believes fabi worked hard to be good at chess and isnt naturally talented like magnus is.
@@saz100 The point is it's double edged, I would say, and open for interpretation.
@@saz100 What's better -- being born a certain way, something which you have no control over, or earning something the hard way because you've invested many resources into doing so. I would say the latter is definitely much more of a compliment.
0:25 I always feel like I gotta go outside to touch grass from these videos: I'm reacting to a reaction to a reaction to a reaction to a reaction
Some people are talented in chess, just as some can run faster than other naturally. At the top levels you have to be freakishly talented and have to work freakishly hard. Hikaru, Fabi, etc. must be proud to have accomplished what they have and yet they still look up and see Magnus above them must be hard.
many people still dont want to acknowledge that talent is a real thing.
@@lightofscorpio9396Thats the problem. Denying the existence of natural talent is absurd.
@@mrtrikxx is it? What's the context, pretty much every top player/athlete has put it the work. I think it's the opposite, people like to give excuses to themselves that they don't have the talent for something rather than acknowledging how much work successful people put it.
There might be some genetic factors that help in certain fields, but I dont think thats what people think of when they say talent. Is shaq talented for being 7 foot tall and having the frame to carry his muscle mass?
@@lightofscorpio9396 real
@@martinstepniewski7093Dubov implied in the interview that "Natural Talent" are those people that can do something and others even with hard work cannot do...
I agree with that... for example everyone says that Magnus Carlsen is the best endgame player of all time...
This gets even more pronounced when someone is naturally talented in an area... stops for a while... and when they come back... they still do well in what they excelled at... or with little amount of pratice when others struggle to get back in shape...
Fabiano is VERY sane and rational while being imaginative. That's a spectacular talent, it is hard to satisfy these conditions simultaneously. Fabi could easily be a scientist, which is impossible for other players at the moment. Dubov under appreciates sanity, and over appreciates finding moves over the board.
Agreed. Fabi and MVL brain-goated.
Does Fabi have an academic background?
Fabi is not talented
excellent take. scientist, this would suit him so well, i think.
@@ronald3836 yes, he studied Economics, but hasn't graduated, as i remember him saying.
If lack of preparation is the key to talent then chess 960 is the best metric.
In which Fabi is probably still in the top 5 or so. For Dubov to say that all top 20 players are more talented than him is simply delusional.
The problem is chess960 isnt balanced so sometimes small mistakes can be too Consequential and sometimes white is favoured too much when 1 mistake happens . So its basically Luck often among top players because your openings can randomly be Good for someone . I think classical is way better because its even every Gm knows every Opening and the mid to endgame is pure skill . So no one Can luckily get a better Position because the position is so unbalanced abd hard to understand
A hard worker will win chess 960 classic and a naturally talented will win 960 3+1.
Also fabi made it to the grand final in chess 960 and dubov calls him talentless
@@pre-ko you are delusional coz you can only think one dimensionally
When asked whats more important in bullet -
Hikaru: speed> accuracy
Alireza: speed>>> accuracy
Magnus: accuracy> speed
Thats the difference
All three are incredible players and within spitting distance of each other at any given day with Magnus being a slight favorite overall? I'm not exactly sure this tells me anything
@@misteratoz in bullet hikaru's the favourite but once you get to blitz magnus is a favourite
the question doesn't have substance, does it
it's extremely ambiguous, and it's hard to imagine an interpretation that isn't extremely subjective and vibes-based
Fabiano's speaking is very eloquent
He's really a very thoughtful guy. He thinks very carefully on many topics.
@@tennisCharlzzbecause he’s a gemini lol
@@saktzyofficial3387nah it's his physiognomy
He's trained.
I disagree with your take on Dubov. He clearly says that he admires the hard work that Fabi puts in, which is what makes him able to compete with the top guys, who may have better instincts than him. He doesn't seem salty and doesn't downplay fabis achievements.
The infinite reaction loop
When Dubov says talent, he must mean genius - producing strong moves that can't be produced by knowledge and reason alone. It's clear that a good memory and logical thinking are not part of what Dubov calls talent. He only has respect for what he cannot do himself. Dubov is damning with faint praise of course when he says that he has great respect for Curuana having come so far with so little "talent". He knows its unfair because everyone can only work with what he was given, but Dubov can't help but look down on it.
The harder you practice, the more talented you get. - Not Gary Player
Pattern recognition and any kind of chess idea can be practiced. Lost against an 11yo OTB yesterday who studies chess, while I just play it.
@@nonchablunt Some people even with a lot of pratice cannot reach someone that is very talented...
@@brenosantos4756not everyone can get to the peak but you can get good
Insane cope. Do you think Magnus/Alireza/Garry got where they got just because they 'practiced harder bro???'
Dubov is basically saying fabiano is the only chess player working hard and you and magnus are just waking up at tournaments and playing 😭
What dubov is saying is that you practice math everyday to score well in the exam but there is that douchebag who would also score well in the exam without working that much coz his brain naturally does math well
Magnus does be looking like he just woke up tho
After fabi won the us championship for the 4th time, Nakamura uploaded this video, i can tell you that he hates fabi so much.
The whole video Hikaru is defending fabi. Fabi is a genuinely nice guy, I don't think anyone could hate him.
I mean this as a compliment: you’re probably the least good looking person I know. But your personality is just so chill & magnetic, people love to be around you
Dubov said this as compliment
you should work on your compliments...
People just don't understand how hard it is to constantly work on something and still see no difference in things, This is something that you will have to understand for yourself, I worked my ass of 4 years to crack a university entrance exam, It took me 4 years when I used to study over 10 hours daily, But you know what I saw a guy who started preparing for that exam later than me, only prepared for a year and still got higher marks than me. ( I got in that university in the end, Yay )
Yeah he has no talent compared to the top 30,yet he's 2800+,been number 2 in the world for ever , a 4 time US champion and the only person Magnus said was kind of close to reaching him...
Hes washed up bro, get over it…. Go cry to your mom.
Who's washed out kid
Fabi just won the USA championship, and Fischer random chess tournament
Undefeated in last 24 games in all format
hikaru is an exceptionally clear thinker and communicator. i really admire how he gets to the heart of an argument very quickly and lays out the issues.
Hikaru is an exceptionally literally not carer. I really admire how he gets to the heart of an argument very quickly and literally doesn't care
Hikaru is neither a clear thinker nor a good communicator. At the start of this video he argues that Dubov is referring to Fabi's lack of blitz ability, but Dubov never mentions blitz. Obviously you can't get really good at blitz without putting in a lot of work.
Fabi definitely is not an exceptionally clear thinker and commuinicator, as his comments show.
@@ronald3836its called context clues about him not mentioning any blitz
@@ronald3836 I agree. For people to say he thinks or communicates clearly is sheer insanity. He is one of the worst convoluted and confused communicators. And to add on top most things he says are just fillers with no meaningn.
@@ronald3836fabi laid dubov's premise to waste with the thought experiment of having him rank players by talent. very clear thinking.
it's possible you could attempt to rank talent objectively by rate of elo progress from formally starting your chess career, but anything else seems silly. your blitz, rapid, classical, 960, etc are all informed by your total chess knowledge, which is all built upon the amount of preparation and experience you have. dubov sounds silly, and I have to agree that hikaru sounds a little silly here too
Even in rapid and blitz you can develop intuition by hard work: play through and analyse thousands of games and you will surely develop a intuitive feeling for positions and good moves. Chess talent for me is the ability to calculate well, to be able to work very hard and to memorize many thousands of positions and understand what to do in those positions.
Na bruhhh somepeople just suck…
How good you are at blitz is definitely a product of how hard you've worked (and how early you started working on it in your childhood) imo. When you play blitz and bullet, you're showcasing your intuition, which is what you train/improve by practicing. I would define your talent as the upper-limit of how good your intuition can get through maximum training. Some people probably have naturally higher intrinsic limits than others I'd guess and that has to be the most useful definition of "talent" imo.
Fabi is the Rock Lee of chess. He is a genius at working hard.
I was looking forward to this reaction video. Hikaru has mentioned in interviews a few times that he viewed his older brother as a natural amazing chess talent. I was hoping he was gonna talk a bit about that, assuming he has been seeing raw talent up close. But maybe it was just older brother syndrome. The older brother is always a few years ahead in development. As a kid that might seem like impossible talent. Nice video nonetheless.
Ultimately nobody cares about talent, however you define it. All that matters is output. Maybe someone was out there more talented than Newton or Da Vinci but nobody cares. We remember and are thankful for the output produced by folks like Newton, Einstein, Da Vinci etc. Even on a more modest level, I want a doctor that performs the best surgery and not someone who was more talented but whose surgeries are not as good because he doesn’t want to work hard.
I think everyone is missing the point here of what talent means. Talent is just your raw natural potential, it is not an indicator of skill whatsoever.
I'm a musician and I define talent as how quickly you pick up the instrument and intuitively you learn musical concepts.
The equivalent in chess would be intuition, instinct, general awareness.
Basically, talent is a huge advantage (in any field) but it is not a direct indicator of skill. Talent and skill have a correlation, but not a causation.
Yes. Talent could most easily be defined as "rate of progress" perhaps combined with "upper limit"
If you are motivated by the loss that is a winner's mentality
Fabi in this blitz tournament was pure talent!
Dubov is basically mad that he's better than Caruana at blitz but in classical Caruana is over 2800 while he's under 2700
You never reach top 4 with hard work alone. NEVER. In top 4 you still must be far more talented than 99,999% on the planet.
dubov speeks about top30, not about the whole planet
@@swadom4627 My bad... I guess, I felt the need to underline the exceptional talent anyone (!) far up there must have...
top 5 though any old schmuck can do that ;)
Talent can be measured somewhat by the speed one learns or absorbs the skill in question.
That speed of absorbing the skill is also a skill that can be mastered over time with hard work
Basically anyone can become talented with hard work
Bro cooked Fabi with that thumbnail 😭
Capablanca was very good at blitz (just have a look at his St. Petersburg 1914 results) and is quite possibly STILL the most talented chess player to have ever played the game, perhaps there's some merit to the argument about blitz requiring more talent than preparation. He also, as far as I know, didn't receive any instruction, nor was he mentored, nor did he spend a lot of time preparing for his opponents. In fact, I've read in the past that he often didn't take his opponents seriously, for whatever that's worth. He was almost 100% purely natural talent. He was dubbed "The Chess Machine" for a reason.
Talented? Capablance was exposed to chess as a 2-3 yo and even before as he grasped the rules at an incredibly early age thanks to adults playing chess around him all the time. So if you equate practice with 'talent', then I'd agree.
@@nonchablunt if you could go from learning by watching your dad play (at the age of 4 he pointed out that his dad was making an illegal move which indicates that his dad wasn't any good at chess) all the way to beating the Cuban national champ in roughly 9 years (just before his 13th birthday) without the aid of books to study or any sort of coaching, everyone would be doing it. Practice only gets you so far. You need talent to compete at the highest levels.
The stories about Capablanco not working hard enough are just that, stories. He’s has admitted himself how much chess took on his time.
@@kidrenegade8525 a quote by Julius du Mont (marked: "London, December, 1919") from the preface of the autobiographical "My Chess Career," written by Capablanca, quote:
"The writer has had many opportunities of judging of the scope of Capablanca's reading and study outside the realm of chess, and he can safely assert that those people who imagine that the ambit of his mentality is chess, that he thinks chess, dreams chess and lives chess only, are hopelessly wrong. In fact, he devotes much less time to chess, I should say, than many an enthusiastic amateur."
In this book, in the introduction, in his own words, Capablanca describes how he got his start in chess as a child. He recounts how little chess he played from age 4 to age 11, playing "only occasionally at home." He mentions again (as he did in an article in Munsey's Magazine written in Oct 1916) that, on some medical advice (however farcical it may be) that he should avoid playing too much chess. He mentions that he played 2 games, at around age 11, against Juan Corzo and lost them both.
In chapter 2, he first mentions receiving books on chess before his match against the reigning Cuban champion Juan Corzo which occurred just before his 13th birthday. He writes:
"Some of my admirers thought that I should have a good chance of beating J. Corzo. They attributed my defeats to the fact that I had never seen a chess book and urged me to study. One of them gave me several books, among which, one on endings. I liked the endings and studied some of them. meanwhile, the match with Corzo was arranged; the winner of the first four games - draws not counting- would be declared the victor. I began to play with the conviction that my adversary was superior to me; he knew all the openings and I knew none; he knew many games of the great masters by hear, things of which I had no knowledge whatever; besides, he had played many a match and had the experience and all the tricks that go along with it, while I was a novice."
Capa goes on to say about the same match, "The victory made me, morally at least, the champion of Cuba. I was then twelve years old. I had played without any book knowledge of the openings; the match gave me a better idea of them. I became more proficient in the middle game and decidedly strong once the Queens were exchanged." We see this today with Magnus's games. He seems to always be stronger than his opponents once the queens leave the board.
Compare this to Fischer, who learned to play at age 6 from an instruction booklet included with the chess set his sister bought him and began studying books on chess at age 10.
The point of the OP isn't that Capa never studied books, but that he spent far less time in preparation and study than his peers.
More from Capablanca in his book, "My Chess Career," picking up where he left off after having defeated Juan Corzo at age 12 he writes:
"For the next two years I devoted my attention to finishing my High School course. In 1904 I went to the U.S.A. to learn English and to prepare myself to enter Columbia University. In 1905 I paid my first visit to the Manhattan Chess Club of New York. although I had not played for a long time I won the first game, in good style, against one of the many first-class players of that famous club. I became a Sunday afternoon visitor, and one year later, in 1906, I was already looked upon as, at least, the equal of any of the players of that institution. In quick and lightning chess I was easily the best of all, and could compete with the strongest in the world, as I proved soon, winning a so-called Rapid Transit Tournament from a field of thirty-two, which included the chess champion of the world, Dr. E. Lasker, undoubtedly the foremost player there was in any kind of chess."
"That same year I entered the University of Columbia to follow the chemical engineering course. In passing my entrance examinations I obtained the high mark of 99% in algebra, employing only one hour and fifteen minutes of the three hours we were allowed to do the work. I also had high marks in the other scientific subjects. I relate the facts for whatever deductions the psychologists may desire to draw."
"After two years, in the course of which I had done a great deal of physical sport, I left the University and dedicated most of my time to chess. During those two years I played many a serious game, mostly in Summer, against the strongest players of the Manhattan Chess Club, and as one by one I mowed them down without the loss of a single game my superiority became apparent."
As we can see, during his two years at university, Capa spent less time on chess than he did on his engineering course and sports. He was about 20 years old by the time he started dedicating most of his time to chess.
This is nothing like Fischer or Carlsen or any modern GM, who all took advantage of their early signs of talent, beginning studying and coaching at young ages.
Obviously I can't contribute to a discussion of what happens with 2700+ players; I can say that Dubov is now communicating in his 2d language. Asking him to define with clarity in English is not quite fair IMHO
He made the same comment in Russian on Mustreader's Russian channel nearly two years ago.
His comments were quite two-dimensional indeed.
@@grmpf But chess is only two-dimensional anyway :)
Hikaru: I literall don't care.
Fabiano: I literally don't know if I care.
Hikaru’s expression at the beginning shows so much glee - he finds this entire topic delightfully awkward.
Dubov has that Hollywood russian english accent
Guys fabi is number 3 in rapid at the moment and number 5 in blitz in the world ,what on earth is hikaru talking about ,hes behind fabi in rapid and fabiano has probably way more golds than hikaru in top rapid events .obviously live blitz is the most whatever format of the 3 but i see fabi way ahead of dubov in rating there as well so ....
yaah now fabi is good in all 3 formats
@@ritikhans372 yea not to add that he became grandmaster at 14 and only handful of people were few months earlier at that moment so yea not very talented guy ...
@@alexkontogiannis3520”not to add that” - but you did add that
There’s not a lot of rated rapid tournaments
@@alexkontogiannis3520he studied chess for 14 hours a day. Thats not talent thats hard work. A talent is being born able to juggle with and hard work is when you learn to juggle without even being close to be able to do it before
The bottom right guy tried to start drama lol
We got Hikaru reacting to Fabi reacting to the interviewer reacting to dubov reacting to another interviewer
Wouldn’t Fischer random be the best way to determine talent?
not at all. Magnus has been preparing since a couple of years, because he kew before anyone else about freestyle chess championship in germany this year. This means Magnus has more expierence tha others which, is same as Fabi stated, We don´t now hou much someone works, but Magnus has working so hard due to his 5 titles, and that, lead to recopilate more knowledge, which is the base to make decisions "intuitively" corect.
“Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn’t work hard.” Kevin Durant. Fabi Top 5
Me too, also have positional awareness. I can feel and resign first move playing against Magnus.
“Like… I cannot do this” is a great compliment
In football (soccer) the analogy would be comparimg players like Messi or Maradona with other top players. Some few can produce "wtf" moments that no amount of training can get others to produce, and it's this what he means. Of course, it's something that's hard to capture with metrics.
"Can you win at chess if you're untalented?" Yes ofcourse, just ask Kramnik
One of the most talented chess players btw, and a world champion. Such a bottom dweller's comment.
I personally don't think that talent or hard work are important metrics, because no matter what quality you have, your results will be the only thing that matters. Someone could be a talented mathematician for example and not apply themselves, and someone could be a hard worker yet work very hard towards goals that may not benefit their objective.
Also, what does talent mean. One could say a GM who picked up the game at the ripe age of 12 must be the most talented one because most other GMs will have started playing chess seriously beefore the age of 8 or earlier. But obviously the GM who only started at 12 will have to work really really hard to make up for the loss of those crucial years.
LOL ... i find it funny that these convos happen in any competitive sport -- on Gils Arena, i listened to NBA players have this circular debate as well, talent vs skill, and struggled without any real definition.
First hikaru says there is no natural talent, then proceed to say that Magnus has it 😂
Its also important to note that fabi has more chess talent than 99.99% of chess players. Its just that hes number 30 in the top 30.
Hard work always outshines natural talent in most occasions. In chess it's more like a mix nowadays but yes, morphy was legendary. I would say morphy has a strong suit in both hard work ethics and natural talent.
The ability to remember openings is also a talent. It isn't just hard work and will to win..
all about confidence and hard work
😂😂😂
From an outsider perspective, Hikaru and Fabi can articulate their thoughts like a million times better than Magnus. That's one of the biggest indications of memory and IQ. Fabi to me sounds like a genius. The way he talks, it's just such a pleasure to here. Saying he isn't talented is very laughable. He probably has the the highest IQ out of everyone; especially, since he can remember the longest prep out of every top player.
Magnus is a non-native speaker. For your assumption to be true, we should have fabi and Hikaru learn a language that has similar roots to their mother tongue, for an extended period of time, and only then see who has better proficiency. Magnus probably has a C2 level proficiency as well, so it's quite an exaggeration to say that these two are like a million times better at articulating their thoughts.
@ I know 3 languages, buddy. No excuses.
@@MasterInHD same, but that wasn't my point. I'm not saying it's an impossible task and I'm not finding excuses for magnus. I'm just saying that we should see how articulate those other guys are in a second language of their choice, in order to assess accurately whether they truly are more articulate than magnus. Or we should check the proficiency of magnus in Norwegian. If it's lower than fabi's in English, then you are right.
In athletics the most important natural gift is having superior hand-eye coordination, something you are born with, can't be learned later. In art, it's the ability to draw well at a young age. In chess, this key "natural" ability some players possess is more elusive to identify. Maybe it is a deeper spatial understanding of the position of the pieces, might be something else (haha).
It is about the value of the pieces and how well they coordinate with each other.
Spatial-visual pattern recognition among others but yeah it's more elusive. It definitely exists though. Talent exists which I find many people are trying to downplay
@@manuelmed98 talent definitely exists, but i think because its something unseen and unexplainable, people dont want to believe its real.
Somebody tell Hikaru when he is reacting to stuff we will watch the video even if it is 40+ minutes
Fabi literally has higher podium finishes than Hikaru in the World Rapid tournament. Hikaru: "He's never done very well. He's not been close."
2nd in 2014 and 3rd in 2022 yep. Meanwhile, if talent is supposed to mean being good at blitz, then that's a redundant way of saying one is good at blitz. Blitz requires a lot of opening prep too - no way is it possible to be the best at it without prior-study.
Hikaru is just yapping, fabi is stronger than hikaru in rapid no question
In classical chess, FABI is the closest to Magnus
In rapid and blitz FABI worked hard on timing formats to be so so strong
In 2023/2024 FABI would crush Hikaru
OTB
Online Hikaru has the upper hand, that's his domain
@@unknown-unknown69 What exactly are you trying to say?
You should keep your dumb opinions to yourself if you’re trying to insinuate only recent 2023/24 Fabi is better than hikaru in rapid. He has been for around a decade now. There is a reason he’s the third highest rated rapid player of all time and why he has 2 rapid medals, and has won multiple tournaments involving rapid
And whether OTB or online, hikaru always has the upperhand in blitz
Would like to see Dubov at the Freestyle 960 tournaments next year.
I think people massively underestimate how important intuition is in chess. Intuition is the only reason humans are able to excel at chess *at all* because "looking ahead" and considering all moves is impossible for humans. We use our intuition to narrow the list of candidate moves we consider to make it possible. If we didn't do that, looking ahead, eg, 6 plies (or 3 moves per side) would require considering around 1.8 *billion* unique positions in an average middlegame. And your intuition for chess isn't something that you're born with. It's by definition counter intuitive and the whole point of practicing is to improve your intuition. If "talent" is anything, it's the upper-limit of how well and how quickly you can train your intuition for chess imo but all players will suck without actually putting in the work to train it.
I guess Chess960 strength is more related to natural talent than rapid and blitz compared to classical.
I don't know how Dubov can know Fabi's level of talent... more likely Dubov has constructed an ideal in his mind that he needs and projects it onto Fabi
I mean they have been playing against each other for years so he knows stuff about the players
Look at how Fabiano blundered against him in the last world blitz championship 🤣.
@@ech00mxi but how do you gauge natural talent?
@@chesneytube1 it’s basically the ability to find creative moves in hard circumstances and that is something Caruana lacks
@@darrenjohn8524 you can't tell anything from one blunder, everyone blunders including Magnus
Hikaru communicates so clearly 👌 Communication and understanding skills are on par with his chess skills
A lot of natural gift is hidden inside hard work. You can work hard but in the completely suboptimal and wrong way for you. If you can determine exactly what to work on, when and how such that you for your own self can make an optimal training schedule and maximize your progress, then that could also be called natural gift. In the end, gift is not easily determined or quantifiable as Fabi states correctly. Also it feels like ppl love to use it as an excuse for why they lose or cannot reach another player or athlete. However I do believe the moment you start thinking that you can never reach someone because of their natural gift is the exact moment you take a path in your career to end up actually never reaching them because deep down you already dont believe it.
Basically Dubov compared Magnus to Mozart and Fabi to Salieri, case closed ...
it's pretty clear that dubov wasn't talking about blitz. He was talking about finding unintuitive moves
I really loved your reactions and your thoughts to these declarations of Dubov. You know, I always thought you were the funniest chess player and a really good one too, but i didn't trust your objectivity that much. You have an excellent reasoning and good arguments. I saw Dubov at the time of the interview, then I saw Fabi and Cris's reactions and, now, seeing that you made a video with it I was really curious about your thinking.
I enjoyed even your mimic when seeing their reactions. And you know what else? Seeing that the greatest minds in chess have so similar take on what talent means, what `good chess player` implies, what it takes to become good and how much respect you have for the other is completely fascinating for me and shows me once again that professionals can and will appreciate each other much more and evaluate each other much more accurately and in a nuanced way than those lower on the rating list. Dubov has a lot to learn from you both.
Hugs from Romania, Camelia. :)
You are reacting to a reaction to a reaction to an interview? 😂 3D chess 😂
I think Dubov essentially means talent is the thing that gets measurable results when work put in is equal. For 10,000 hours of similar work, two players can both be great. But one may just consistently be better, spot more complex combos, find more brilliant moves from positions that seem unequal to most, and just generally win more.
Also, it's not just talent, that determines your ranking, even how you perform under time pressure plays a role, among other things that are not "chess talent"
From the perspective of managing theory and calculation and the quality of intuition when you depart from prep, results are basically all we have. We have the perpencity to not make low # sequences blunders, which is a calculation thing, how often do you neglect a need for line by line calculations where it is important, and this is where computers i think just simply crush humans because it always does to some extent where as humans rarely compute all lines to a certain depth. The problem of how to use prep is to get in a position, and the prospects from that position is still a skill because we don't close the activity by some sort of hard solve, so it is basically looking for a position where it is plausible that you could gain some advantage or secure a draw, without knowing anything objective about all continuations, that is definitely a skill, knowing what is acceptable or favorable to pick up what the computer left you and how to manage time spent on that process. You can't deny that skill and talent play a part there because there is a subjective judgment there that is conceptual rather than pure calculation. Then there is playing a game, which has its own problems, partially calculation and partially how good you are at generating concepts and managing time for thinking and calculation on the fly. Idk how to quantify a single talent scale there, it seems a bit dubious to do so, if you are conservative, but you very quickly spot and calculate potential tricks, then you will be a lot safer than other players even if you Don't come up. with long term concepts as easily as say magnus with endgames. It is almost certainly impossible to come up with an objective assessment of what talent means there. Idk i'm okay at chess at times, i think it is pretty much as easy to beat a 2000 rated bot as a 1300 at times when i play. Because i'm lazy and unstructured and omit a lot of nonsense, i should stop very often, but can see concepts pretty well at times, and xan calculate pretty well if i force myself to do so, still a complete amature with regards ti opening knowledge and also discipline of mentak process, and with regard to familiarity with patterns and themes, if i don't see it quick the first time the opportunity is there, well then it is what it is. Never played as a kid, so it feels pretty new every time i play. I don't feel any serious difference in difficulty playing agains 1300s to 1800 hundreds online, its more so not keaning on bad habits honestly.
20% more genius if you learn to use paragraphs.
@andrewthompson3249 nah, people are just bad and lazy readers i bet you could give me advice as to when i should have broken it up, ergo you can read it just fine.
@JrgenMonkerud-go5lg I could not read it just fine. I gave up trying. People who don't use paragraphs are usually of low intellect.
The only way to kinda objectively tell how naturally talented everyone is if all their practise time and data from their career starting until now. But even then stuff like efficiency in practise comes in to play
Dubov chess is like the class clown that makes fun of everyone and holds no bar, and fabi is that class nerds that sticks to his books and wits in class
The problem is ego. That some were not mentioned.
Normally, Hard work beats talent, but if you have talent, and you work hard, then you're unstoppable. For example Messi. He is talented but also works incredibly hard
Michael Jordan is another example.
He could have spent his non-game time sitting on a couch eating potato chips and pizza and still been an above-average NBA player. His work ethic (and competitiveness) took him far beyond that.
Mohammad ali
Fabi just smoked everyone in 960 😅😅
which is played with no opening lines, prep etc. If that isn't talent.. what can we say
He won that tournament with no loss,
vishy and fabi the most hard working
Dubov is just jealous he's 37 and fabi is 4
4?? he is wold no 2 i think
@@ritikhans372 no
Oct ranking is
Magnus hikaru arjun fabiano
@@lammatt ooh ok live rating he is no 2
Why did I thought you were talking about their age?
Dubov always sounds like he wants to communicate deeper ideas than his English skills allow him to.
Waiting for Dubov reaction to this to complete the matrix, lol
One might have an usual detla in short time controls due to nerves, due to physically being a bit slower with moving pieces and the timer, due to choosing not to prepare as much for those tournaments, due to needing more up front time to get going calculating. Lots of nuance there.
in my knowledge winners mentality means - even though you lost a bunch of games you have the mentality t fight back back rather than saying it to yourself you arent good enough against a certain player or in a certain format, etc.
also, natural talent is defined by the the level of result you can achieved with the least amount of efforts put in.
Dubov is right... Fabi and Hikaru should listen carefully, among the 3 only Dubov is world champion!!
There is such a thing as natural chess intuition and having a feel for where the pieces belong in certain positions, but it doesn't really count for very much once you get beyond a certain level. You can develop the same "feel" through years of training, and at the end of the day what really matters in classical chess is how well you calculate, as well as opening preparation. For Blitz and rapid, there probably is a dimension relating to speed of mental processing that gives certain players an edge, in the same way that height in basketball gives certain players a natural advantage, although it's hard to estimate the significance of this factor.
Well said........couldn't have said it better
"Sans technique un don n'est rien qu'une sale manie" (Georges Brassens, Le mauvais sujet repenti)
"Without technique a gift is nothing but a bad habit"
This is actually a really deep convo tbh
22:10 Guess which player in the current top 10 has a higher draw rate and lower win rate than Wesley So in classical chess with either colour...
These guys better start including Arjun Erigaisi in their conversations. I don't think there is anyone else who works harder than him.
my idol dubov with that passive aggressive situation lol
has scooby doo ever won anything ,?
@@jamesking-lx9xj nothing notable of late but i do enjoy his risk taking approach to chess. there's never a dull moment!
@@jamesking-lx9xj
He won the world rapid championship 🏆🥇 in 2018
It looks like there is never enough of drama in the chess world.
I guess now we're just waiting for Levy to make content from Hikaru's video, which was based on C-Squared's video, which itself was based on a video from a channel with just 8.5K subscribers with, according to quite a few commenters here, an unsuccessful and jealous GM.
I think there is an objective criteria but very difficult to measure. Strength vs amount of time spent playing chess. Plot each on a graph and see who is above or below the trendline.
100% agree on your Morphy comment. Natural talent he was nutz amazing. He did also study the few books he had, but the resources avalible were so much less.
Some can play 12 hours a day, others can study 12 hours a day but nobody can Dubov
A reaction to a reaction? Holy, Hikaru is really doubling down on being a full time content creator. 😂
no Fabiano has a access to supercomputer that Dubov does not
The way Hikaru and Fabi instantly spot and correct the flaw in Dubov’s argument clearly shows that their intelligence is well above Dubov’s.
Talented guys are giving opinions about each other. We, the non-talented crowd, just enjoy the show.