David Magarshack was my go to translator for Russian classics, before I discovered Ignat Avasey. I was bit disappointed that Magarshack didn't translate BK. But once I read Avasey's version, I donated all other versions to Goodwill. So smooth. I feel Avasey is the only translator who captured Dostoyevsky's humor. He also translated The Idiot, which is also very good.
Excellent. I made a video on translations of the Brothers Karamazov also and I really like MacAndrew followed by Avsey. MacAndrew since it is such a smooth and lovely translation and Avsey since he is so knowledgeable and I keep learning.
I will be reading the Karamazov Brothers for the first time this year. Just bought it three days ago. I have the Oxford edition which I hope will be a good translation for me. Your videos are a great source! I didn’t even knkw about the Michael Katz translation itherwise I would have read that one. Maybe for a future read. Personally I would love to hear more about the book.
I'm loving the Ignat Avasey translation. Have previously read the PV and Garnett ones (about 6 or seven times) and with Ignat Avasey, I finally get it. As you say; he "Unlocks" it.
Hey Matthew, I Recently finished the Magarshack translation and I loved the book. Since finishing it I have been trying to decide what translation to read next and after watching your video on the new translation I think I have my mind made up! Thanks for the videos! Love your work.
The Katz translation is not coming out in the UK until September--really looking forward to it. By the way, I love the special cameo appearance by (presumably) your cat in the background! 😄
I like the Andrew R. MacAndrew translation from Bantam. I did, however, download the Kindle sample from Katz now that it has been released and it does look good. He modernizes muddle-headed on the first page and that's a good sign.
For me: * Constance Garnett is okay, but it comes across as too old and dated for me (even with the modernizations). * P&V are often overly literal and miss the sense or meaning. * McDuff is the most wordy of all the translations. It's the longest in terms of English word count by approximately 25%. That verbosity is more detrimental than beneficial in McDuff. * Avsey is on the opposite end of the spectrum of P&V and aims more toward sense and meaning than strict literalness, and as such comes across beautifully in English. * I haven't read the Katz translation. But I'm looking forward to it! Thanks for your recommendation.
I hated the McDuff version. It killed the book for me. Avsey is brilliant and captured the comic moments very well, especially Madame Khokhlakova's bits of dialogue! P&V make those scenes sound incredibly bland by comparison.
Do you know about the IBOO press edition? I haven't been able to see it irl but the cover is beautiful so I'm not sure if I should get that one or this new translation.
For anyone who has struggled trying to enjoy Dostoevsky, re: Karamazov I was able to get through David McDuff's translation. I read half, took a break unsure if I'd continue, then returned to the second half later. Each phase went somewhat briskly, and that was surprising for me. (Other than most of Tolstoy in my youth, I've never really been able to enjoy Russian fiction - how much is lost in translation, I don't know). Side note: I'd be suspicious of critics who lack knowledge of the original language, and yet opine on the quality of translations. 🤔
Where's the Garnett? I too have more dostoevsky versions on my shelf than necessary, some for the translation, some for nostalgia, some for the particular introduction or afterward or critical supplements, some even for the cover art. But sometimes, with your very favorite books, there can never be enough. And to add another layer of gentle madness, even the "Garnett" should really be the "Garnetts", her original translation having been revised and updated so many times. Kinda like the moncrief proust. I think the Norton critical keep adding the latest revision of the garnett. Anyhow, o never get tired of you talking the BK. Thanks as always.
I have only read the P & V translation. There were some sentences that just didn't make sense so I went to an old mass market paperback of Constance Garnett's translation for help.
My Katz edition is due to come in September. I can't wait. At the moment I am reading his translation of "Crime and Punishment. Punishment" and am really enjoying it. I read the P & V edition. I think it is overrated, there are parts that are badly phrased in to the point of being unintelligible I loved this video Matthew. Thanks
That’s an amazing collection! I have only read Garnett’s translation but I have read it 3 times. Maybe I should try to read another translation next time! Can one ever be done talking about the Brothers K?
I wish upon you a mint, boxed Folio Society of the Magarshack translation. Maybe if I find out some unsettling news I can will you mine. Not yet, however-in case I feel a need to revisit the brothers’ saga.
8 months old but I just ordered the Katz version. Never read the book except for the first 80 pages of the Garnett version which I actually like just fine. But I’m gonna start from scratch with the Katz version and see which one I prefer. Side question for you: What is in your opinion the best translation of War and Peace for an American? I’m currently reading it for the first time and it’s the P and V version. I like it fine but again I’m wondering if there’s a better version I should be reading? Also out of pure curiosity from someone new to Russian Literature, (I’ve only read C&P-loved it!) what is your top 5 Russian novels if you don’t mind answering? Thanks for any help!
Hey! I hope you enjoy the karamozov brothers! Tolstoy is an author I've never really had strong preferences with translators, except funnily enough the C&P translation of War and Peace, the way they handle the French dialogue I found annoying. As to your second question, I'll have to think about. All the best!
@@MayberryBookclub im just saying that I read the book for learning english, ill be getting depth into one by one frase and sentence, trying to undersand and get what the frase/sentence for by using ai translator and chatgpt. I think this is the fun way to learn english cause I am learning english and get the stories at once. considered the michael katz's not available in my country ill go with ignat avsey's, thak you.
Ah, there are a couple of brilliant translations you're missing from your collection. One is the Andrew MacAndrew translation and the other is the Susan Mcreynolds Oddo translation. Both of them are vastly superior (in the literary sense) to the P&V translation.
I haven't heard of these translations, so thank you so much for the recommendations! Though personally, I try to avoid superiority into my discussion because different translations just work on people differently.
Yes, that is what I meant. But it is a very thorough revision of Matlaws revision. It restores Garnett's omissions (she deliberately shortened complex sentences and omitted numerous repetitions) and corrects her errors. I really liked the MacAndrew translation, but it doesn't contain any explanatory notes. @@davidhall8656
You mentioned that this new translation might be the best “modern” translation. Upon hearing “modern” this is a warning sign for me. I don’t want modern Dostoevsky. I only want to know what the author has to say. I want to keep a feeling of old Russia, old sentiments,old ways of thought patterns. I could only get half way through a modern C&P translation. I threw the book in the trash (at the time I had a trash shoot just outside my apt door. I was on the 7th fl. I could hear books I hated slide down to basement. It was a great trash dump. I did research. The translator on the C&P I hated is Oliver Ready. Okay already. I give up. I will buy this Katz translation. The write up on Amazon makes the book sound good!
The version you don't have is the original in Russian so you can't really speak to a true knowledge of the novel all you get are second hand interpretations...pity you are missing out on the book Dostoyevsky wrote
David Magarshack was my go to translator for Russian classics, before I discovered Ignat Avasey. I was bit disappointed that Magarshack didn't translate BK. But once I read Avasey's version, I donated all other versions to Goodwill. So smooth. I feel Avasey is the only translator who captured Dostoyevsky's humor. He also translated The Idiot, which is also very good.
Excellent. I made a video on translations of the Brothers Karamazov also and I really like MacAndrew followed by Avsey. MacAndrew since it is such a smooth and lovely translation and Avsey since he is so knowledgeable and I keep learning.
I will be reading the Karamazov Brothers for the first time this year. Just bought it three days ago. I have the Oxford edition which I hope will be a good translation for me. Your videos are a great source! I didn’t even knkw about the Michael Katz translation itherwise I would have read that one. Maybe for a future read. Personally I would love to hear more about the book.
I'm loving the Ignat Avasey translation. Have previously read the PV and Garnett ones (about 6 or seven times) and with Ignat Avasey, I finally get it. As you say; he "Unlocks" it.
The Ignat Avsey translation is the one closest to my heart!
The Ignat Avsey translation was a great joy to read!
Hey Matthew, I Recently finished the Magarshack translation and I loved the book. Since finishing it I have been trying to decide what translation to read next and after watching your video on the new translation I think I have my mind made up! Thanks for the videos! Love your work.
The Katz translation is not coming out in the UK until September--really looking forward to it. By the way, I love the special cameo appearance by (presumably) your cat in the background! 😄
I'm always happy when Andy or Daphne make appearances!
I like the Andrew R. MacAndrew translation from Bantam. I did, however, download the Kindle sample from Katz now that it has been released and it does look good. He modernizes muddle-headed on the first page and that's a good sign.
For me:
* Constance Garnett is okay, but it comes across as too old and dated for me (even with the modernizations).
* P&V are often overly literal and miss the sense or meaning.
* McDuff is the most wordy of all the translations. It's the longest in terms of English word count by approximately 25%. That verbosity is more detrimental than beneficial in McDuff.
* Avsey is on the opposite end of the spectrum of P&V and aims more toward sense and meaning than strict literalness, and as such comes across beautifully in English.
* I haven't read the Katz translation. But I'm looking forward to it! Thanks for your recommendation.
I hated the McDuff version. It killed the book for me. Avsey is brilliant and captured the comic moments very well, especially Madame Khokhlakova's bits of dialogue! P&V make those scenes sound incredibly bland by comparison.
I have the mcduff penguin black spine which i will be reading as soon i finish the same black spine C&P👍
I definitely want to pick up the new translation for a reread.
Would you say Avsey or Katz portrays the dark humor/ humor better?
Do you know about the IBOO press edition? I haven't been able to see it irl but the cover is beautiful so I'm not sure if I should get that one or this new translation.
I only have the P&V, red spine vintage edition. I wasn’t a fan of their War and Peace translation but that’s because of the French. 😊
For anyone who has struggled trying to enjoy Dostoevsky, re: Karamazov I was able to get through David McDuff's translation. I read half, took a break unsure if I'd continue, then returned to the second half later. Each phase went somewhat briskly, and that was surprising for me. (Other than most of Tolstoy in my youth, I've never really been able to enjoy Russian fiction - how much is lost in translation, I don't know). Side note: I'd be suspicious of critics who lack knowledge of the original language, and yet opine on the quality of translations. 🤔
Where's the Garnett? I too have more dostoevsky versions on my shelf than necessary, some for the translation, some for nostalgia, some for the particular introduction or afterward or critical supplements, some even for the cover art. But sometimes, with your very favorite books, there can never be enough. And to add another layer of gentle madness, even the "Garnett" should really be the "Garnetts", her original translation having been revised and updated so many times. Kinda like the moncrief proust. I think the Norton critical keep adding the latest revision of the garnett. Anyhow, o never get tired of you talking the BK. Thanks as always.
Cool.
I have only read the P & V translation. There were some sentences that just didn't make sense so I went to an old mass market paperback of Constance Garnett's translation for help.
There is one by Julius Katzer also.
My Katz edition is due to come in September. I can't wait. At the moment I am reading his translation of "Crime and Punishment. Punishment" and am really enjoying it. I read the P & V edition. I think it is overrated, there are parts that are badly phrased in to the point of being unintelligible I loved this video Matthew. Thanks
I can't even begin to understand why people laude P&V so much. Their English language skills are beyond atrocious!
That’s an amazing collection! I have only read Garnett’s translation but I have read it 3 times. Maybe I should try to read another translation next time! Can one ever be done talking about the Brothers K?
It's a book to live with!
I wish upon you a mint, boxed Folio Society of the Magarshack translation. Maybe if I find out some unsettling news I can will you mine. Not yet, however-in case I feel a need to revisit the brothers’ saga.
I am currently reading this book for the first time. I’m reading from the penguin edition.
Me too
8 months old but I just ordered the Katz version. Never read the book except for the first 80 pages of the Garnett version which I actually like just fine. But I’m gonna start from scratch with the Katz version and see which one I prefer. Side question for you: What is in your opinion the best translation of War and Peace for an American? I’m currently reading it for the first time and it’s the P and V version. I like it fine but again I’m wondering if there’s a better version I should be reading? Also out of pure curiosity from someone new to Russian Literature, (I’ve only read C&P-loved it!) what is your top 5 Russian novels if you don’t mind answering? Thanks for any help!
Hey! I hope you enjoy the karamozov brothers! Tolstoy is an author I've never really had strong preferences with translators, except funnily enough the C&P translation of War and Peace, the way they handle the French dialogue I found annoying.
As to your second question, I'll have to think about.
All the best!
Should ill get ignat avsey's or Michael Katz's translation?
I don't have a noticeable preference of either one, they are both really good. I'd say you can't go wrong however you decide.
@@MayberryBookclub im just saying that I read the book for learning english, ill be getting depth into one by one frase and sentence, trying to undersand and get what the frase/sentence for by using ai translator and chatgpt. I think this is the fun way to learn english cause I am learning english and get the stories at once. considered the michael katz's not available in my country ill go with ignat avsey's, thak you.
Okay, gotcha. May I ask, what country are you from?
@@MayberryBookclub i'm from Indonesia
Ah, there are a couple of brilliant translations you're missing from your collection. One is the Andrew MacAndrew translation and the other is the Susan Mcreynolds Oddo translation. Both of them are vastly superior (in the literary sense) to the P&V translation.
I haven't heard of these translations, so thank you so much for the recommendations! Though personally, I try to avoid superiority into my discussion because different translations just work on people differently.
By the the Mcreynolds Oddo, do you mean her update of the Matlaw update of the Garnett?? I want to try the MacAndrew too someday.
Yes, that is what I meant. But it is a very thorough revision of Matlaws revision. It restores Garnett's omissions (she deliberately shortened complex sentences and omitted numerous repetitions) and corrects her errors. I really liked the MacAndrew translation, but it doesn't contain any explanatory notes. @@davidhall8656
Yes, it is a very substantial and scholarly revision.@@davidhall8656
You mentioned that this new translation might be the best “modern” translation. Upon hearing “modern” this is a warning sign for me. I don’t want modern Dostoevsky. I only want to know what the author has to say. I want to keep a feeling of old Russia, old sentiments,old ways of thought patterns. I could only get half way
through a modern C&P translation. I threw the book in the trash (at the time I had a trash shoot just outside my apt door. I was on the 7th fl. I could hear books I hated slide down to basement. It was a great trash dump. I did
research. The translator on the C&P I hated is Oliver Ready. Okay already. I give up. I will buy this Katz translation. The write up on Amazon makes the book sound good!
I don’t think you need all the different translations. Too many other great books out there you ought to try instead.
Thank you, what other books would you recommend?!
Show us the paper quality
*PromoSM*
The version you don't have is the original in Russian so you can't really speak to a true knowledge of the novel all you get are second hand interpretations...pity you are missing out on the book Dostoyevsky wrote
Your comment goes without saying. True: it would be helpful if we spoke Russian.