Hello tgv, im 14 and i got into Watches because of you, in fact, you made a video about danger of overprice fashion watches and made me start my collections on Orient Three Stars and i could not be happy than this, and bought Casio Databank DBC611, And Orient Mako II, and i just want to say, Thank You
I bought my first seiko 5 (a snzf17) at the age of 12 and now two years later I’m buying an skx009, it’s nice to know there are others interested in the hobby.
Those are some really classy choices for a young whipper snapper! I like orient too. My bambino get as much wrist time as any of my watches and it’s nearly my cheapest. Keep up the good choices young man!
First I get three hearts on my comments, now one is actually featured in a video.... nothing like a creator that engages with the community. Thank you for your time!
A bit misleading. Let's face it, a movement is wearing out all the time it's running. Modern automatics cannot be 'over-wound', the mainspring is carefully designed to slip in the barrel once fully wound. An inexpensive winder that has selectable rotation and timer will cause no more appreciable wear than wearing the watch. A watch that's rested will wear less since the movement will be dormant, but setting the time & date regularly will put wear onto the day/date ratchets & pawls & the drivetrain clutches. So you're trading wear on some items for wear on other items. In general, the autowind mechanism is designed to be more resilient/tolerant to wear than the setting mechanisms. Daily wear is the ideal, however, given the choice of a winder or manually resetting the watch every few days, the winder gets my vote.
My thoughts exactly. I just received my very first watch winder today. It's a swinging pendulum style winder. No motors, no belts. Just a plastic scaffolding with the watch bracket on top, and a long pendulum with a magnet at its end, over an electromagnetic base. Very simple. Very effective. I've read loads today about how a winder will prematurely wear out the winding mechanism, but all day I've been questioning, "how is the winder any different than simply wearing the watch?" The only difference I can see is wearing the watch will subject it to much harsher shock and wear.
I wonder if 5 years later you still have the same thought process. If we were sitting across from each other I could literally combat every statement you made. And that's coming from someone who is very very new to watch collecting
My wife used this video to buy me a watch winder for Christmas and I am over the moon. Big thank you TGV for your good work as it has landed me a Wolf and somehow added to the insane amount of love I have for my wife.
I have my winders on programmable plugs (via an app on my phone) and only run for a few hours a day on the CW/CCW/rest setting. It's enough to keep them wound so that they don't stop, but far from fully wound.
I use Versa winders from Amazon for my 4 automatics. They have four different TPD settings - 350, 650, 850, 1050. All of my watches require 650 TPD for continued use. I use my Orient power reserve watch to give a loose approximation of how wound the other watches that I haven't been wearing are. When power reserve is at or close to max I switch all of my winders down to 350 TPD. When it's down to 25% power reserve, I switch them back to 650 TPD. It's not much work and I enjoy actively engaging them every couple of days, they never need to be reset and they are not continually maxed out on winding. I'm not endorsing Versa, BTW. I've had mine for a little less than a year and so far they haven't broken. No idea how long they'll last beyond that.
If you're using a watch winder that stops and starts and rotates bi-directionally, I don't see how that is any different than having it on the wrist. Of course I wouldn't buy a winder that constantly ran. Mine is pretty quiet and the indicator lights really don't bother me. I have it exposed on a dresser next to my bed. Just make sure you get one with a quiet motor.
Winders are for dorks who 1) are over thinking their watches and 2) have unwieldy and large collections. A perpetual calendar is the only reasonable use case.
I have seen comments on other anti-winder videos comparing a constantly running watch to a car that is never turned off. The mechanical forces inside the watch are so light all the moving parts can be stopped with the tip of a toothpick. The forces inside a car motor and transmission are so tremendous and need constant lubrication. Quartz watches have gears to move the hands, and those watches run constantly for years until the battery runs out. I have a Timex that is still going since I bought it in 2011, stopping long enough to have the battery changed every few years. I bought a 2007 Breitling SuperOcean six months ago. I did not know the history of the watch. It had to go back to the watch shop for a problem. The watch was sent to Breitling Connecticut for repair, and while there it received a complete service. All this was covered under the watch shop's warranty, so now I have a new old watch. I learned the watch is wound in both directions. My Breitling goes into an inexpensive but well-built winder at night, and rotates clockwise for four minutes, rests for twenty six, rotates counter clockwise for four minutes, rests for twenty six, etc. until I take the watch out in the morning. The Breitling is happy.
Not just Wolf, if you're in the UK have a look at Barrington winders. Love my 2 watch winder, you can program various amounts of turns per day and change the direction of rotation and even lighting from a remote control or the unit itself. Very nearly totally silent too.
TGV, I have six Wolf double winders. I agree with you they are the best. (quiet, use both batteries and electrical, rotate both directions, and look great.) The reason for double is that allows me to stack them in my safe for a week at a time, running on batteries. Especially when I am gone for an extended period of time. Since most of my collection are annual and perpetual calendars(As you see me wearing a Patek 5205R-001) it behooves me not to let any one of them stop. From most of my research, there is no evidence that quality watch winders wear watches out quicker or extend the life of the watch.
Don't automatics have a "clutch" to prevent over-winding? I thought you didn't even have to worry about hand winding an auto due to its ability to slip.
@gjaddajgYou're wrong. Nothing significantly happens to the watch once it is wound to a specific point, the winder simply can't create the forces to wind the mainspring any further. The benefit is that the watch, on the wrist, is always optimally wound and has less effect from isochronism. Which watchmakers hate winders?
@@mosfet500 As you said, clutch will prevent it from overwinding so maybe some very cheap and old automatic watches can be damaged by being overwind by winder (need to open my soviet watches to check if they got clutch). The only real damage caused by winders can be done to rotor bearing. Its the heftiest bearing in the watch but it is still designed for certain lifespan, having in mind specific amount of rotations. If your winder rotates all day long it will surely rotate rotor more times than it would by average amount of movement done by hands for 10-18 hours a day. If its double the amount you will roughly cut your bearing lifespan by half and so on
@@archibaldthearcher Watches don't have clutches. Even in a modern manual watch the main spring isn't physically attached to the barrel. When the watch gets to a specific point the mainspring slips in the barrel preventing over winding. Automatic watches have this too but, again, the winder never creates enough force to reach that point. The beauty is that the watch is always wound optimally, in fact I think Rolex even said that once in their advertising. As far as bearings, under these stresses they just don't wear out. Tesla says their motor bearings, under considerable stress, will last over a million miles. Ball bearings are ridiculously durable products, they changed the machine world and it's no surprise that we bombed Germany's ball bearing factories during WWII. I've never seen worn out autowinder bearings.
The mainspring is just friction fit in the barrel and constant winding will cause it to drag around the edge and wear the barrel out. The spring isn't allowed to unwind either.
If you are a bit obsessed about “over-winding” your watch, plug the winder into a clock-timer which can be set to turn the winder on and off at any interval you feel is appropriate. I feel this is analogous to a float charger I keep connected to my car or motorcycle lead-acid batteries when those vehicles are in storage. A float charger by nature is supposed to only keep the battery “topped off”, but never over charge which can boil away the electrolyte. Those household clock-timers are an inexpensive enhancement to several kinds of battery storage solutions, and definitely extend the useful life of vehicle batteries.
They make sense if you have complications such as moonphase or eternal calendars, when it takes you a long time to get them dialed in correctly after the watch has stopped.
I would say that unscrewing the crown every night to wind the watch is what bothers me. Most of my watches are dive watches so it’s inevitable. That’s the only reason I’m checking out watch winders
Sadly true, but sometimes, like a good pair of dress shoes or a suit, a little more can last a life time. Or go with a cheap winder and just be sure not to let the watch sit on it too long. Thank you, Best regards, TGV
Bought a Spaceview from your recommended Ebay seller and i have to say its now my favorite watch of my small collection! Keep up the amazing work my friend!
Thanks for this information. I find that frequent use of the stem to set and reset time, date, contributes to the ultimate failure of the stem, crown connection to mechanism. Usually, the first thing to require service on my watches is the stem. For this reason, i use winders. Perhaps I do something that contributes to stem failure, but regardless, the use of winders for multiple automatic watches minimizes overuse of the stem and resetting.
Was told by a very reputable NYC watchmaker (affiliated with Sotheby’s Auctions) not to use winders. Just occasionally wind your watch when not in use. However was told to use an appropriate winder for perpetual annual calendar watches.
Thanks TGV for covering this topic. I think we need a definition here, what do you mean when you say "overwind"? I think typically, this term means on a manual movement, you wind it passing the stopping point, and damage the movement immediately. This is clearly not what you mean here. On a automatic movement, due to the clutch, one cannot "overwind" the same way as mentioned above on a manual movement. I think what you mean by "overwind" here is actually "keep the main spring at full power constantly". Can you clarify this is what you meant? If that is the case, let's see how different it is between 1) wearing a watch everyday; and 2) keeping it on a winder. Let's look at 1) first. Assuming one's daily activity is sufficient to keep the watch going non-stop, then it is FOR CERTAIN that by the end of a day (call it 10PM bedtime), the watch is FULLY WOUND. Because if it is not fully wound, say 90% at 10PM on day 1, it'll be only 80% at 10PM on day 2, and 70% on day 3, and eventually the watch will stop. So it has to be fully wound after a day's wearing. Now assuming the watch has 50 hour power reserve, and this person wear it for 12 hours, and put it away for 12 hours. This means, during the full night of sleep, the watch only releases less than 25% of power. Then it'll get 100% again during the day. So typically, wearing a watch everyday means its power reserve fluctuate between 100% and 75%. Is it pretty close to fully wound? I think so... If it is a 100 hour power reserve watch, then only release nearly 10% at night. This means wearing it everyday makes its power reserve fluctuate between 90% to 100%. Now when it come to 2), if the winder can be set to run 12 hours, and pause for 12, then it is no different from wearing it everyday. Let's assume the worst case that it runs non-stop, then the main spring is always at 100%. Are you saying it makes a significant difference to keep the mainspring charged between 75% to 100% (or 90-100% for a long power reserve one), vs. at 100% all the time? I found it hard to believe. If a watch is designed to be kept at 75% and above all the time, 100% should be fine too. An illogical implication of keeping full charge would damage the watch is that, the longer power reserve the watch is, the more damage one would have wearing it everyday, because it is closer to be fully charged constantly. Can you provide any technical support that fully charge constantly would damage the movement? which part specifically?
I know older automatics were very sensitive to being overwound or constantly at capacity. Plenty of stories of mechanics killing theirs with that. Modern movements typically have some sort of "disconnect" to prevent it from being overwound. I'm sure that will eventually damage/wear out that safety mechanism.
Hi TGV. You’re looking very well. I considered purchasing a watch winder, but then I realised, I really enjoy not only wearing and admiring my watches, but I also really enjoy the process of setting and winding them too. Whether it be using the ‘Seiko shuffle’ or a bit of a hand wind to get them going, it’s all enjoyable interaction with my treasured time pieces, so I decided against a winder. Onwards and upwards to the Gentry.
My collection it split literally down the middle......1/2 are on winders, half in two storage boxes. The ones in the boxes get daily attention, while the winder watches I give a visual inspection....once a week they come out and are adjusted and checked. Been doing this for several years with no failure to the watches. I use only winders from JQueen. They have variable speeds, quiet motors, alternate direction, and are of very good build quality. Price is quite reasonable. Both my father and I uses these winders with great success. And while I won't go into detail about his collection, lets just say ain't no cheap watches there.....and all are on winders. And he has no issues either. Like anything else in watches and in life, if you do something and do it intelligently and pay attention, you'll be rewarded with positive results.
I got myself a cheap watchwinder a couple years ago. Lasted about 2 months before it failed. I didn't have any problems with overwinding as I was able to set the amount of turns per hour, but it is well worth getting a nice one like the one you recommend instead. Having a plastic one that dies after 2 months is just not worth it! Thanks for the overview!
You can't really. All modern automatic watches have a clutch that prevents overwinding. Nonetheless, if you're not wearing a watch for a long period, you're still better off letting it sit still because the gears will have wear from being in constant motion (the same amount of wear if you wore the watch daily) Edit: still though, if you're going to get a winder, get one that has a timer. The clutch that prevents over winding is meant more for wrist use and could still wear out faster if it is winding 24/7
Bought a stowa marine 36 for my first watch after watching your unboxing and I love it! Thank you for sharing it helping me find such a beautiful watch.
I'm using a Flint S120 watch winder, it's a cheaper winder but it works pretty well. I use the setting that runs it clockwise for 2 minutes, 6 minutes off, the counter clockwise for 2 min, 6 min off. And I have the power supply plugged into an appliance timer so it doesn't run all day. On at 7 AM, off at 10 PM. One thing you mentioned was about was about motor failures. Instead what I had fail was a little "O"-ring drive belt in the gear box. It must happen on all of them as I have seen bad reviews. However I seem to be the only one that was able to fix it. It was all too easy and cheap. It's a rather simple mechanism, there's a motor attached to a gearbox, 4 screws to open it up. The old "O"-ring just split into 4 pieces so I was off to Home Depot with it and found the right size "O"-ring for it pretty quickly. A little over $3 for a 10 pack. I reassembled it and it's as good as new.
I like your short videos that focus on specific topics. With regard to watch winders, I have one but don't use it. If I'm in a hurry, I grab my Apple watch or a quartz watch. When I want to wear one of my automatics, I just wind it and set it off of my phone. it takes about a minute :-)
I have the same orange Wolf winder you have, and it's nice to know it was money well spent. It's also surprisingly quiet, I can have it on my desk perhaps 2 meters away from me as I sleep and not hear it.
I love watches, I currently have a diamond Dior a Diamond Tag formula 1 and a Tag Carrera, I’m now purchasing the Breitling diamond Chronomat 36 which brought me here reviewing the Wolf winder, thanks for the upload some great information!
I'm new to all of this, and have a few automatics, Seiko's mostly, that said one of the first pieces of advice I got was to let your watch wind down and rest, it does not take to much time to do the Seiko shake and set the time, and your watch will last longer. Good video.
Not at all, Wolf have never paid me for anything and they are the only company that own the patent that allows them to count the turns in a watch winder. Please check the facts before commenting, thank you. Best regards, TGV
The Urban Gentry I have a Modalo four watch winder and two Wolf ones - both are great products but Modalo has a far superior construction in my opinion . You can set the Modelo to rotate in both directions and for different amounts of turns. I know nothing about who has patents just referring to your comment that Wolf are the only ones offering different counts. Also not interested in Jason’s comment about you being paid and have purchased many products based on your recommendations and been very happy.
@@theurbangentry As I'm currently developing a winder and did my reasearch, 99% of winders are offering to set TDP (turns per day) better ones even sleep time. Counting turns from technical point of view is sth so simple, that you really cant have a patent for this. Not mocking or whatever, I'm a big fan of your channel, and would be really happy if you will review a product of my startup in few months :)
I have 2 watches that I wear several times a month but are a pain to set the date. 20yo Navitimer and a 60s Constellation. Breitling official manual says to wind back and forwards between 8pm and midnight to change the date (scary), Omega too hard/slow/worrying to do that. Timed, reversing, quiet watchwinder works twice a day for them. The other watches I set manually when required. Horses for courses...
So a watch winder that goes clockwise for 2min, rest for 6min, then counter-clockwise for 2min, rest for 6min then repeats as long as it is on, is not a good one? Add in the motor for the watch winder is listed as anti-magnetic
That sounds like my Aokelily. But it says it won't over-wind so maybe it is like the Wolf and counts revolutions. Personally I found UGs arguments for not keeping the mainspring fully wound unconvincing.
@@robertbrandywine well for a cheap one it seems to work pretty well. it also makes no noise. the instructions state it will not wound the watch more then when you put it in. So perhaps the wolfs are just brand name expensive and cheaper units do the same job at a fraction of the cost.
Is over winding still an issue though even when the manual booklet states that the main spring would not be affected after it is fully hand wound? I have a 4R35 (Seiko) and ACF67 (Orient) caliber movement btw...
Yes. My first thought. There's no such thing as 'overwinding' with a modern watch, especially an automatic because there is a clutch that will slip when it becomes fully wound. To be fair to TGV, I think he was using the term to mean a different thing...i.e. 'over use' may have been better.
While I usually find TGV's videos the best and most informative reviews (love the history part of reviews) I kind of feel these new line of videos are just a way to release sponsored content. I would like a clear statement this video was not sponsored by wolf. There are many other winder brands that offer the recommended specs, even cheaper ones. And I remember pretty clearly TGV used to have a more affordable 2 watch winder that is not mentioned in the video. I understand youtubers need sponsors. However, I would really appreciate everybody were straightforward about it. Still a useful an informative video. Thank you and best greetings from Barcelona!
Hi, sorry you feel that way. I will be clear right now. THIS is NOT a sponsored video in any way whats ever. As for my previous watch winders, I learnt from that mistake and it is reflected in this video, if you look at the "tips for buying" text guide section towards the end of the video. I hope that will help you clear up any misunderstandings. Thank you for watching, Best regards, TGV
@@theurbangentry Thanks TGV for your answer, I really appreciate it and I'm very glad it's not a sponsored video. I did find your advice at the end of the video very useful. As stated before, I enjoy your indepth review videos very much (I'm a proud owner of a Sarb 033, timex marlin and 2 seiko 5s mainly thanks to them). Best regards from BCN, Tito
I have a Hamilton Khaki Field, winding with the crown is actually a very bad thing. I used to do that, and had to send the watch in for servicing after4 months. Turn the crown and the rotor spun around. I looked into this issue, and a watch winder is highly recommended for this watch.
The Wolf Winder counts how many times it turns So, like, when I wear my watch for a full day, do I also have to count how many times I swing my arm so that I don't inadvertently over wind it
Hiyuke La Vie no that’s fine but he means if you have it in a continuous winder non stop this will over time be more winding vs the natural winding that comes with wear
Yes. But do not despair - help is at hand - if you wear a pedometer (it counts steps) you can assume that your arm wearing the watch has about half the number of swings as the number of steps you took. It may be a bit more since you may sit or lie down but still move your arm. Now the angular displacement of an arm swinging to walk is about 30° (measure yours for more accurate results). Now you need to know if the automatic winder is uni- or bi-directional. If bi-directional then use the original number of steps, otherwise divide by 2. Now, assuming that the weight in the automatic winding mechanism is always aligned with the ground, your arm will have moved through steps*30 degrees or steps*30/360 rotations. You need to know the gear reduction of the winding mechanism to work out what this is doing to the mainspring. Apply this to find out how many turns the mainspring is wound by your movements during the day but subtract the number of turns the spring needs to unwind to keep the watch running during the time in question. If your watch has a clutch mechanism to prevent overwinding, you're in luck. If not, please keep your arm still while walking. It looks a bit strange but you will get used to it. I hope this was helpful.
I never really thought about this until I saw a Watches TV video where they showed an Urwerk with a 'service gauge' on the back... which made me realise that watches aren't dissimilar to cars in that servicing is not dependent on time (people always talk in years) but on use. Watches can sit in a shop for years unsold, but they don't need servicing.
Hi TGV Didn’t know about this problem with over winding. Logical if you think about it... I also have just a couple of watches in use at a time - one for work purposes and another for my spare time. The others are resting - after all you are wearing the movement when you use the watch. But it’s important to have them up & running every now and then, keeping the oils floating. Keep up the good work👍
Great question, I do not let them sit for more then 2 months. The older ones less as the oils are not synthetic (they dry quicker) and need more love. Thank you Randy, I hope that helps. Best regards, TGV
I have a manual watch but I think the display of a watch winder is cool. Would putting a manual in a watch wider damage it or does it make no difference?
I just bought one from Amazon that alternates clockwise and counterclockwise and is having different programs 4.5 mins with 55.5 brake on either direction or 4 mins clockwise with 26 pause, then 4 mins counterclockwise with 26 pause again or another one that alternates different times. It doesn't rotate all the time. It was a bit under £100. Pretty happy with that.
I’ve got an Avanti six-pod winder/safe, every pod is programmable with turns-per-day and rotation direction. I keep some complicated calendar pieces in there so I don’t spend an hour resetting them every time I put them on.
Good advice here TGV. I think watch winders could be very useful for watches with moonphase and calendar complications. My moonphase and calendar watches are basically time only watched with pretty looking dial since I only set the time when I wear them.
Hmmmm. Those wolf winders look nice, but at the price, I'm not so sure about their value. I have a cheapo $35 Versa winder that has single direction or auto reverse direction settings, settings for how often it rotates the watch per 24 hours, and so far is whisper quiet and durable. Maybe the wolf ultimately lasts longer? Although I could buy 10 of these Versas for the same price of one wolf. From what I've been seeing, these features are fairly common even on cheap winders. Not arguing, just an observation. I agree that an automatic watch shouldn't be rotated constantly putting unnecessary wear on the rotator, spring, and clutch.
I have a cheap winder from Amazon. You can select both rotation directions, or alternating option. I can also select between 4 different settings - number of rotations per day, 350, 650, 850 and 1050, plus an option to turn on light during its function. It was around 90 USD and for that price I think it is a steal. I use to wind-up my "work watch", because I am using it only couple of days in the week.
So, what's your opinion of an horologist manually winding his collection every day or so to keep the time and day/date complications in sync? Do you think it's better to just let them run down and then set them as the need arises for wearing?
Paused the video to comment this, about watch winders over winding your watch Hang on, if a watch winder can over wind your mechanical watch, does that mean wearing your watch the whole day when it's already fully wound also over winds it? Because it's essentially the same thing isn't it? The watch winder winds your watch by moving it, and when you wear your watch you are also winding it by moving it
but you aren't moving it constantly 24hours a day. that's the point of the video. you rest, just like your watch. not every winder considers this fact, hence they aren't as good as for example the Wolf one that TGV recommended.
This may be a stupid question, but: If constant movement of a watchwinder overwinds a watch - what about very active people? Should I not wear an automatic watch for a day-long hike?
I bought the Wolf Heritage 270402 a month ago before coming across this video. It has extra storage on top for additional watches or straps. Glad I made the choice based on your recommendation in this video. I believe it has 900 turns a day along with an alternate direction setting and a 12 hour delay option as well. Always have it set with the 12 hour delay. Seiko Sarb033 and Citizen NB3010-52A currently. Love your channel and thanks for all the advice you pass along!
TVG mentions that some of the high-end winders "are even calibrated to specific movements and brands". Can anyone recommend a winder that would be ideal for my 1980s vintage Datejust (16014)? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Are there better (yet affordable) watch winders for specific movements? Most of mine are ETA 2824 based, but a couple are Valjoux 7750 and only one Seiko NH35 that I don't care as much about... so, what would be good for a basic ETA/Sellita? Ideally, I would have 2-3 watches ru ning at all times, the rest sitting....
Hi there always love to watch tour videos, very informative and very well shot. I have 4 automatic watches. Longines hydro conquest, oris aquis, tissot visodate and a new omega seamaster planet ocean 600m. Which watch winder would you recommend and are they reliable as I don't want to damage the watches.
I got one for you if you ever see this. As a noob I thought a watch winder just replaced you/ your arm in keeping the watch moving naturally so it didn’t stop. Which now asks two questions. Either , 1 watch winders are crap and over wind you watch and potentially lead to failure or a shortened life. I mean who would put there watch in a spinning washing machine! Or 2, watch winders are ok like the one you mentioned and are the same as real time on the wrist. Which means the watch makers are pulling one over us as the watches are gonna break and fail under normal use anyway even the ridiculously over priced Rolex!!! Which is it? Your on the spot new fella....haha you started it!
Hello , quick question pls , I have an Oris GMT and Hamilton Khaki Aviation Xwind , both automatic,reading manuals apparently you cannot overwind them , what is your opinion , is it ok for me to stick it in the watch winder with a rest setting on? Automatic mechanism apparently you cannot overwind , am I getting this right ? Please advise ,thanks for your feedback
You show a Wolf Cub as your watch winder. When looking on the Wolf website, the Cub model is fixed at 900 TPD. My Rolex Submariner has a spec of 650 TPD. Don't I have to worry about the Wolf Cub over winding my watch?
So really how often should we put watches in the watch winders ? Yes, I do understand that occasionally we should still take them off the winders and give them some wrist time. At other times, when we don't wear them often, shouldn't we be putting them in the watch winders ? On the issue of over-winding a watch, isn't there a clutch to prevent most modern automatic watches from being over-wound (please TGV or anyone out there, correct me if I am wrong) ?
I have a watch that winds CW at 800 tpd and another watch that is bi-directional at 650tpd. I just got the Wolf Cub winder, at bi-directional 900tpd, would this damage the CW watch if i use it? and also would it over wind the bidirectional 650tpd?
I personally never use winders. A lot of people feel they do no damage, but as you said, there is the potential of over winding. But I always view a movement for what it is, a machine. And like all machines we will never escape wear and tear. When not in motion, it can’t create wear🍻
I have to agree with you on a Wolf Designs winder. The module 2.0 is absolutely brilliant. The only watch I'm hesitant to put on it is my early 50's Omega Seamaster with the cal. 342 bumper movement. In order to wind properly, it needs an oscillating or swinging motion rather than the perfect spin of a winder. Parts are so scarce and the pendulum action is so violent, it's probably for the best that it gets rest when I'm not wearing it.
Great review. I would say though that there are many other decent winders than Wolf and even cheap winders can be used safely. The key to to find out the watch's ideal turns per day (TPD) and use the winders built in settings and/or a timer so as not to wind beyond that number.
TGV, thank you for your interesting channel . Allow me to add my2cents to the topic: I don't see how technically an automatic watch can be over wound. It lies within the principle of an automatic watch that the clutch releases the spring from the winding mechanism once it is totally wound. I agree, that I don't want the spring to be under 100% tension all the time as this would fatigue the spring and therefore (and because of the wear) one should not store an automatic watch in a winder, but to hold it wound up for a couple of days, the cheapest watch winder will do the job and can do no harm. For little money (~ 50 $) you can find nicely made winders with different programs to run (rotating directions and speed). The inferior quality argument is value under aspects of sustainability but apart from that: What's the loss if a 20$ winder kicks the bucket after a while unless the 300$ model (like your suggested Wolf) doesn't last at least 15 times longer. Let's say: 2 to 30 years ;-) Sure: Under the sustainability aspect I do very much prefer things that are well made...
I do agree with your arguments. And if overwinding is still a concern, nothing stops me from plugging the winder on a timer, programmed to say for 5 hours on weekdays, leaving the mechanisms to rest during the weekends
Am i the only one that absolutely loves the Chronoswiss shown in the watchwinder? This one is just pure class. And Chronoswiss is one of the first brands i really knew because my dad owns a Chronoswiss Lunar for over 10 years. Juts glad to see one in your video!
Some people worry about watches deteriorating if they are left idle, so they buy a Winder. My personal opinion is that a mechanical watch that is left unwound suffers no wear and tear. I bought a Citizen Eagle 7 back in 1997 as a stand in for a watch that I had in for repairs. Well to make a long story short, the Eagle 7 spent the period 1998 to 2018 stored unwound in a drawer. I started wearing it again last Christmas and it hasn't missed a beat. So spending 20 years idle certainly didn't harm it at all.
Hi TGV, I think winders wind less than when I am wearing it on my wrist. My question is that if a watch is built to be worn everyday then how will a winder "damage" the watch compared to wearing it daily? Even a cheaper winder will have some sort of preset cycle that stops and alternate directions. I do rotates about 3 watches frequently, if I do not put it on winder, I will end up having to set the watch every 3 to 4 days. My next question is, will setting the watch so frequently be more "damaging" on the movement, crowns and etc...
I try to avoid cycling the screw down crown. But there’s no justification in daily use of a winder for overnight. So everything in moderation. If you set it aside for weekend, yeah a winder is appropriate, but set it aside for month? No. Letting it stop isn’t harmful. Running up the miles on your car while your not using your car isn’t recommended either. I haven’t wound OR set my Rolex OP for many months on end, and I don’t have a winder.
First, I like the channel. Second, I like the new short-form videos. Third, I have to disagree with you on this subject. BOXY winders offer 15 different options for number of turns per day which should cover virtually all watches. they also divide the number of turns so that it does a calculated number of turns per hour and then rests. Boxy's also have selectable rotation directions; clockwise, counter-clockwise and bi-directional. Since turns per day information is readily available, no watch in a winder set for the correct turns per day should ever become over-wound. Therefore, no damage is done and the next time you wear your watches, they will have the correct time.
Good points, TGV, however, I do know of a UA-camr called the Time Teller who keeps his Omega on a winder because the 1020 movement inside can easily be damaged by setting the date and time.
I have 3 automatics which i have in rotation, I normally swap watches after a week of wear, so the other 2 are kept on winders. I think if you have one on a winder that you only wear at weddings, christenings and funerals I don’t think it needs to be on a winder, does it really need to be running for 6 months when you aren’t actually wearing it?
I have few automatic watches most of them omegas - if I should be buying which watch winder I should be looking at . should I be opting for a single or a double motor - I am currently looking at wolf. if u could suggest model pls
My Versa wonders have settings for Clockwise, counter clockwise, or bi directional. And choices of 350, 650, 850, or 1,050 revolutions a day. Start with 350. If it isn’t enough go up. Mine all use 650 bidirectional. I think cheaper than wolf. They can make a little noise.
I love grabbing a watch off the winder and just going. Plus I love watching my watches on the winders. To me it’s like art made of one of my favorite things!
I hate to disagree with a watchmaker but I guess wearing your watch every day would harm it as well. I wear mine every day and I play saxophone so my hand especially the left is constantly shifting and moving around.
I don't own watch winder so I'm safe, I like to wind them my self every time I wear them, so like you said a won't damage the watch, Thank you my friend great advice 👍✌🤟 have a wonderful weekend love the explorer nice piece...
Is it worth getting a watch winder if i have one or two seiko 5 watches? Not sure if its worth paying for a watch winder for watches that cost around the same as the winder. Im new to watches so not sure what to do
I have a double Wolf Winder, mostly to play with. I am a Techno Nerd and a Watch Junkie. ~I use mine to keep the two watches I'll be wearing for the Month.
I use a Wolf winder, took it back because it was making a noise yet advertised as silent. They agreed it wasn’t quiet enough and changed it, within two month the replacement was no better.
Not sure If I need to panic. I was winding my SRPB99K1 and felt resistance then heard a loud click. Was that the over-winding failsafe or did I just broke something?
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I put my Seiko in my watch winder, now it’s a Rolex.
LOL
Powered by green moon cheese, right?
Patrick De Haan of course
Must be a WOLF winder then 😁😁 - if you say WOLF 25 times in a video you get a free one.
Why that's a downgrade my poor chap
Hello tgv, im 14 and i got into Watches because of you, in fact, you made a video about danger of overprice fashion watches and made me start my collections on Orient Three Stars and i could not be happy than this, and bought Casio Databank DBC611, And Orient Mako II, and i just want to say, Thank You
@Ryno Project thank you!
I’m 15 and recently purchased a seiko 5 (snk807). For €30 bidding of eBay. It even came with a one piece nylon strap
I bought my first seiko 5 (a snzf17) at the age of 12 and now two years later I’m buying an skx009, it’s nice to know there are others interested in the hobby.
I’m 14 and you also helped guide me in the world of watches. I bought a Hamilton Khaki King a year ago because of your review.
Those are some really classy choices for a young whipper snapper! I like orient too. My bambino get as much wrist time as any of my watches and it’s nearly my cheapest. Keep up the good choices young man!
First I get three hearts on my comments, now one is actually featured in a video.... nothing like a creator that engages with the community. Thank you for your time!
A bit misleading. Let's face it, a movement is wearing out all the time it's running. Modern automatics cannot be 'over-wound', the mainspring is carefully designed to slip in the barrel once fully wound. An inexpensive winder that has selectable rotation and timer will cause no more appreciable wear than wearing the watch. A watch that's rested will wear less since the movement will be dormant, but setting the time & date regularly will put wear onto the day/date ratchets & pawls & the drivetrain clutches. So you're trading wear on some items for wear on other items. In general, the autowind mechanism is designed to be more resilient/tolerant to wear than the setting mechanisms. Daily wear is the ideal, however, given the choice of a winder or manually resetting the watch every few days, the winder gets my vote.
I know the thread is 5 years old, but I wanted to thank you for such a well-considered and informative response.
Thanks for the very thorough and thoughtful comment-very helpful!
@@jakeizloveIndeed.
My thoughts exactly. I just received my very first watch winder today. It's a swinging pendulum style winder. No motors, no belts. Just a plastic scaffolding with the watch bracket on top, and a long pendulum with a magnet at its end, over an electromagnetic base. Very simple. Very effective. I've read loads today about how a winder will prematurely wear out the winding mechanism, but all day I've been questioning, "how is the winder any different than simply wearing the watch?" The only difference I can see is wearing the watch will subject it to much harsher shock and wear.
I wonder if 5 years later you still have the same thought process. If we were sitting across from each other I could literally combat every statement you made. And that's coming from someone who is very very new to watch collecting
My wife used this video to buy me a watch winder for Christmas and I am over the moon. Big thank you TGV for your good work as it has landed me a Wolf and somehow added to the insane amount of love I have for my wife.
Blessed man, kick ass wife!
Wives are the best
I have my winders on programmable plugs (via an app on my phone) and only run for a few hours a day on the CW/CCW/rest setting. It's enough to keep them wound so that they don't stop, but far from fully wound.
Rumor has it, if you put a G-Shock in one of these things, it will release the nanobots inside...
Mightbe Sherwood: LOL 😆
thought they were just breaking them, aggressively.
...and the nanobots will laugh hysterically.
Do you want the borg, because that's how you get the borg
You have got to admit, a whole wall of watch winders does look pretty cool though
Hmmm.... no it doesn´t
Or a drawer full of them like the wardrobe from Dr. Strange.
N.C. Exactly what made me want one😂
it does to the burglars...
TheWeardale1 that’s why you have them built into a safe
I use Versa winders from Amazon for my 4 automatics. They have four different TPD settings - 350, 650, 850, 1050. All of my watches require 650 TPD for continued use. I use my Orient power reserve watch to give a loose approximation of how wound the other watches that I haven't been wearing are. When power reserve is at or close to max I switch all of my winders down to 350 TPD. When it's down to 25% power reserve, I switch them back to 650 TPD. It's not much work and I enjoy actively engaging them every couple of days, they never need to be reset and they are not continually maxed out on winding. I'm not endorsing Versa, BTW. I've had mine for a little less than a year and so far they haven't broken. No idea how long they'll last beyond that.
4:05 the way he smiles when he speaks about his watches u know he’s in love with them!!
So my drill and zip ties should just be used for interrogations and not winding watches?
It's fine, just take it steady
Name, Rank n number Soldier!!
I prefer a weed wacker.
@@nobody46820 Bolol!!!
Literally laughed out laud reading that 😆
If you're using a watch winder that stops and starts and rotates bi-directionally, I don't see how that is any different than having it on the wrist. Of course I wouldn't buy a winder that constantly ran. Mine is pretty quiet and the indicator lights really don't bother me. I have it exposed on a dresser next to my bed. Just make sure you get one with a quiet motor.
Power your automatic with electronics !
Now it's basically like a Quartz ., but with more hassle.
@Star Trek Theory Rottweilers were bred to carry the medieval business mans purse around it's neck, so why not his watch.
Ya., I’ve thought about putting a watch on the dog., but it might get more activity in a drawer.
My dog might find a way to ingest the watch ..,
JuvoII
I should train my dog to carry my booze ., like those Saint Bernards in the Alps
Winders are for dorks who 1) are over thinking their watches and 2) have unwieldy and large collections.
A perpetual calendar is the only reasonable use case.
I have seen comments on other anti-winder videos comparing a constantly running watch to a car that is never turned off. The mechanical forces inside the watch are so light all the moving parts can be stopped with the tip of a toothpick.
The forces inside a car motor and transmission are so tremendous and need constant lubrication.
Quartz watches have gears to move the hands, and those watches run constantly for years until the battery runs out. I have a Timex that is still going since I bought it in 2011, stopping long enough to have the battery changed every few years.
I bought a 2007 Breitling SuperOcean six months ago. I did not know the history of the watch. It had to go back to the watch shop for a problem. The watch was sent to Breitling Connecticut for repair, and while there it received a complete service. All this was covered under the watch shop's warranty, so now I have a new old watch.
I learned the watch is wound in both directions.
My Breitling goes into an inexpensive but well-built winder at night, and rotates clockwise for four minutes, rests for twenty six, rotates counter clockwise for four minutes, rests for twenty six, etc. until I take the watch out in the morning. The Breitling is happy.
Not just Wolf, if you're in the UK have a look at Barrington winders. Love my 2 watch winder, you can program various amounts of turns per day and change the direction of rotation and even lighting from a remote control or the unit itself. Very nearly totally silent too.
For some unknown reason they followed me on instagram last week lol
TGV,
I have six Wolf
double winders. I agree with you they are the best. (quiet, use both batteries
and electrical, rotate both directions, and look great.)
The reason
for double is that allows me to stack them in my safe for a week at a time,
running on batteries. Especially when I am gone for an extended period of time.
Since most
of my collection are annual and perpetual calendars(As you see me wearing a
Patek 5205R-001) it behooves me not to
let any one of them stop.
From most of
my research, there is no evidence that quality watch winders wear watches out quicker
or extend the life of the watch.
Don't automatics have a "clutch" to prevent over-winding? I thought you didn't even have to worry about hand winding an auto due to its ability to slip.
@gjaddajgYou're wrong. Nothing significantly happens to the watch once it is wound to a specific point, the winder simply can't create the forces to wind the mainspring any further. The benefit is that the watch, on the wrist, is always optimally wound and has less effect from isochronism.
Which watchmakers hate winders?
@@mosfet500 As you said, clutch will prevent it from overwinding so maybe some very cheap and old automatic watches can be damaged by being overwind by winder (need to open my soviet watches to check if they got clutch).
The only real damage caused by winders can be done to rotor bearing. Its the heftiest bearing in the watch but it is still designed for certain lifespan, having in mind specific amount of rotations. If your winder rotates all day long it will surely rotate rotor more times than it would by average amount of movement done by hands for 10-18 hours a day. If its double the amount you will roughly cut your bearing lifespan by half and so on
@@archibaldthearcher Watches don't have clutches. Even in a modern manual watch the main spring isn't physically attached to the barrel. When the watch gets to a specific point the mainspring slips in the barrel preventing over winding.
Automatic watches have this too but, again, the winder never creates enough force to reach that point. The beauty is that the watch is always wound optimally, in fact I think Rolex even said that once in their advertising.
As far as bearings, under these stresses they just don't wear out. Tesla says their motor bearings, under considerable stress, will last over a million miles. Ball bearings are ridiculously durable products, they changed the machine world and it's no surprise that we bombed Germany's ball bearing factories during WWII.
I've never seen worn out autowinder bearings.
The mainspring is just friction fit in the barrel and constant winding will cause it to drag around the edge and wear the barrel out. The spring isn't allowed to unwind either.
If you are a bit obsessed about “over-winding” your watch, plug the winder into a clock-timer which can be set to turn the winder on and off at any interval you feel is appropriate. I feel this is analogous to a float charger I keep connected to my car or motorcycle lead-acid batteries when those vehicles are in storage. A float charger by nature is supposed to only keep the battery “topped off”, but never over charge which can boil away the electrolyte. Those household clock-timers are an inexpensive enhancement to several kinds of battery storage solutions, and definitely extend the useful life of vehicle batteries.
They make sense if you have complications such as moonphase or eternal calendars, when it takes you a long time to get them dialed in correctly after the watch has stopped.
Yes. I have that issue. But I just wind them up 10-20 turns at the end of the night. It's a practice now that is also very therapeutic.
I would say that unscrewing the crown every night to wind the watch is what bothers me. Most of my watches are dive watches so it’s inevitable. That’s the only reason I’m checking out watch winders
you meant perpetual.
@@beluwuga no. He is only talking about IWC Portuguese’s. Bro dies not care about your perpetual calendar 😂
While I would like to get Wolf watch winder, it costs more than most of my watches.
Sadly true, but sometimes, like a good pair of dress shoes or a suit, a little more can last a life time.
Or go with a cheap winder and just be sure not to let the watch sit on it too long.
Thank you,
Best regards,
TGV
@theurbangentry how do you know how long is too long?
The watch winder smith is more affordable, bi-directional and has 5 RPD modes. I’ve been happy with my 4-watch model.
Great advice. My son got me a Wolf for Christmas 2 years ago and I haven’t appreciated how good they are until now.
Made my Friday in a jiffy! Thanks for another outstanding video, sir.
I've had my Wolf Designs Meridian winder for over four years and it works just as well now as it did when new. Thanks for the informative video.
Bought a Spaceview from your recommended Ebay seller and i have to say its now my favorite watch of my small collection! Keep up the amazing work my friend!
I tried to find out who this seller is...
Thanks for this information. I find that frequent use of the stem to set and reset time, date, contributes to the ultimate failure of the stem, crown connection to mechanism. Usually, the first thing to require service on my watches is the stem. For this reason, i use winders. Perhaps I do something that contributes to stem failure, but regardless, the use of winders for multiple automatic watches minimizes overuse of the stem and resetting.
Same here
i put my casio f91w in a watchwinder, now its a richard mille
Was told by a very reputable NYC watchmaker (affiliated with Sotheby’s Auctions) not to use winders. Just occasionally wind your watch when not in use. However was told to use an appropriate winder for perpetual annual calendar watches.
I use a high-end winder for my Breitlings mostly because they are such a pain in the ass to set.
I am my watch winder ..,
How do I know if I'm high-end .?
Thanks TGV for covering this topic. I think we need a definition here, what do you mean when you say "overwind"? I think typically, this term means on a manual movement, you wind it passing the stopping point, and damage the movement immediately. This is clearly not what you mean here. On a automatic movement, due to the clutch, one cannot "overwind" the same way as mentioned above on a manual movement. I think what you mean by "overwind" here is actually "keep the main spring at full power constantly". Can you clarify this is what you meant?
If that is the case, let's see how different it is between 1) wearing a watch everyday; and 2) keeping it on a winder.
Let's look at 1) first. Assuming one's daily activity is sufficient to keep the watch going non-stop, then it is FOR CERTAIN that by the end of a day (call it 10PM bedtime), the watch is FULLY WOUND. Because if it is not fully wound, say 90% at 10PM on day 1, it'll be only 80% at 10PM on day 2, and 70% on day 3, and eventually the watch will stop. So it has to be fully wound after a day's wearing. Now assuming the watch has 50 hour power reserve, and this person wear it for 12 hours, and put it away for 12 hours. This means, during the full night of sleep, the watch only releases less than 25% of power. Then it'll get 100% again during the day. So typically, wearing a watch everyday means its power reserve fluctuate between 100% and 75%. Is it pretty close to fully wound? I think so... If it is a 100 hour power reserve watch, then only release nearly 10% at night. This means wearing it everyday makes its power reserve fluctuate between 90% to 100%.
Now when it come to 2), if the winder can be set to run 12 hours, and pause for 12, then it is no different from wearing it everyday. Let's assume the worst case that it runs non-stop, then the main spring is always at 100%. Are you saying it makes a significant difference to keep the mainspring charged between 75% to 100% (or 90-100% for a long power reserve one), vs. at 100% all the time?
I found it hard to believe. If a watch is designed to be kept at 75% and above all the time, 100% should be fine too. An illogical implication of keeping full charge would damage the watch is that, the longer power reserve the watch is, the more damage one would have wearing it everyday, because it is closer to be fully charged constantly.
Can you provide any technical support that fully charge constantly would damage the movement? which part specifically?
I know older automatics were very sensitive to being overwound or constantly at capacity. Plenty of stories of mechanics killing theirs with that.
Modern movements typically have some sort of "disconnect" to prevent it from being overwound. I'm sure that will eventually damage/wear out that safety mechanism.
Hi TGV. You’re looking very well. I considered purchasing a watch winder, but then I realised, I really enjoy not only wearing and admiring my watches, but I also really enjoy the process of setting and winding them too. Whether it be using the ‘Seiko shuffle’ or a bit of a hand wind to get them going, it’s all enjoyable interaction with my treasured time pieces, so I decided against a winder. Onwards and upwards to the Gentry.
Getting a wolf watchwinder thrown in with my green Seamaster later. Wasn’t sure whether I should use it…this video has been so helpful!
My collection it split literally down the middle......1/2 are on winders, half in two storage boxes. The ones in the boxes get daily attention, while the winder watches I give a visual inspection....once a week they come out and are adjusted and checked. Been doing this for several years with no failure to the watches. I use only winders from JQueen. They have variable speeds, quiet motors, alternate direction, and are of very good build quality. Price is quite reasonable. Both my father and I uses these winders with great success. And while I won't go into detail about his collection, lets just say ain't no cheap watches there.....and all are on winders. And he has no issues either.
Like anything else in watches and in life, if you do something and do it intelligently and pay attention, you'll be rewarded with positive results.
1/2 are on winders? Are these just the Zelos watches? Lol
I got myself a cheap watchwinder a couple years ago. Lasted about 2 months before it failed. I didn't have any problems with overwinding as I was able to set the amount of turns per hour, but it is well worth getting a nice one like the one you recommend instead. Having a plastic one that dies after 2 months is just not worth it! Thanks for the overview!
I had no idea you could over wind a watch! Really appreciate this information.
Seriously I had no idea, Thank you a ton.
Hmmm. If you wear your watch everyday, isn't that overwinding it?
@@geomancer6371 lol I had that same thought! But we all sleep eventually. So that's some inactivity
You can't really. All modern automatic watches have a clutch that prevents overwinding. Nonetheless, if you're not wearing a watch for a long period, you're still better off letting it sit still because the gears will have wear from being in constant motion (the same amount of wear if you wore the watch daily)
Edit: still though, if you're going to get a winder, get one that has a timer. The clutch that prevents over winding is meant more for wrist use and could still wear out faster if it is winding 24/7
You really can’t. This is nonsense
Bought a stowa marine 36 for my first watch after watching your unboxing and I love it! Thank you for sharing it helping me find such a beautiful watch.
Wunderbar! As they would say, I will wear mine tomorrow in your honor.
Thank you Sam, enjoy it.
Best regards,
TGV
I'm using a Flint S120 watch winder, it's a cheaper winder but it works pretty well. I use the setting that runs it clockwise for 2 minutes, 6 minutes off, the counter clockwise for 2 min, 6 min off. And I have the power supply plugged into an appliance timer so it doesn't run all day. On at 7 AM, off at 10 PM. One thing you mentioned was about was about motor failures. Instead what I had fail was a little "O"-ring drive belt in the gear box. It must happen on all of them as I have seen bad reviews. However I seem to be the only one that was able to fix it. It was all too easy and cheap. It's a rather simple mechanism, there's a motor attached to a gearbox, 4 screws to open it up. The old "O"-ring just split into 4 pieces so I was off to Home Depot with it and found the right size "O"-ring for it pretty quickly. A little over $3 for a 10 pack. I reassembled it and it's as good as new.
I like your short videos that focus on specific topics. With regard to watch winders, I have one but don't use it. If I'm in a hurry, I grab my Apple watch or a quartz watch. When I want to wear one of my automatics, I just wind it and set it off of my phone. it takes about a minute :-)
I have the same orange Wolf winder you have, and it's nice to know it was money well spent. It's also surprisingly quiet, I can have it on my desk perhaps 2 meters away from me as I sleep and not hear it.
I love watches, I currently have a diamond Dior a Diamond Tag formula 1 and a Tag Carrera, I’m now purchasing the Breitling diamond Chronomat 36 which brought me here reviewing the Wolf winder, thanks for the upload some great information!
I'm new to all of this, and have a few automatics, Seiko's mostly, that said one of the first pieces of advice I got was to let your watch wind down and rest, it does not take to much time to do the Seiko shake and set the time, and your watch will last longer. Good video.
Wolf are not the only firm that make winders that count the amount of turns. Important to be fair and accurate if making statements.
Yeah, but wolfe are the only ones paying him to mention them in his video 😂
Not at all, Wolf have never paid me for anything and they are the only company that own the patent that allows them to count the turns in a watch winder. Please check the facts before commenting, thank you.
Best regards,
TGV
The Urban Gentry
I have a Modalo four watch winder and two Wolf ones - both are great products but Modalo has a far superior construction in my opinion . You can set the Modelo to rotate in both directions and for different amounts of turns. I know nothing about who has patents just referring to your comment that Wolf are the only ones offering different counts. Also not interested in Jason’s comment about you being paid and have purchased many products based on your recommendations and been very happy.
The Urban Gentry
TGV - have you looked at the other winder that you can set the number of rotations on?
@@theurbangentry As I'm currently developing a winder and did my reasearch, 99% of winders are offering to set TDP (turns per day) better ones even sleep time. Counting turns from technical point of view is sth so simple, that you really cant have a patent for this. Not mocking or whatever, I'm a big fan of your channel, and would be really happy if you will review a product of my startup in few months :)
I have 2 watches that I wear several times a month but are a pain to set the date. 20yo Navitimer and a 60s Constellation. Breitling official manual says to wind back and forwards between 8pm and midnight to change the date (scary), Omega too hard/slow/worrying to do that. Timed, reversing, quiet watchwinder works twice a day for them. The other watches I set manually when required. Horses for courses...
So a watch winder that goes clockwise for 2min, rest for 6min, then counter-clockwise for 2min, rest for 6min then repeats as long as it is on, is not a good one? Add in the motor for the watch winder is listed as anti-magnetic
That sounds like my Aokelily. But it says it won't over-wind so maybe it is like the Wolf and counts revolutions. Personally I found UGs arguments for not keeping the mainspring fully wound unconvincing.
@@robertbrandywine well for a cheap one it seems to work pretty well. it also makes no noise. the instructions state it will not wound the watch more then when you put it in. So perhaps the wolfs are just brand name expensive and cheaper units do the same job at a fraction of the cost.
Is over winding still an issue though even when the manual booklet states that the main spring would not be affected after it is fully hand wound? I have a 4R35 (Seiko) and ACF67 (Orient) caliber movement btw...
Yes. My first thought. There's no such thing as 'overwinding' with a modern watch, especially an automatic because there is a clutch that will slip when it becomes fully wound.
To be fair to TGV, I think he was using the term to mean a different thing...i.e. 'over use' may have been better.
Thanks a lot for (yet) a very helpful video. I was just about to buy a relatively cheap winder, but now I think I’ll leave it all together. Thumbs up!
While I usually find TGV's videos the best and most informative reviews (love the history part of reviews) I kind of feel these new line of videos are just a way to release sponsored content. I would like a clear statement this video was not sponsored by wolf. There are many other winder brands that offer the recommended specs, even cheaper ones. And I remember pretty clearly TGV used to have a more affordable 2 watch winder that is not mentioned in the video. I understand youtubers need sponsors. However, I would really appreciate everybody were straightforward about it. Still a useful an informative video. Thank you and best greetings from Barcelona!
Hi, sorry you feel that way. I will be clear right now. THIS is NOT a sponsored video in any way whats ever.
As for my previous watch winders, I learnt from that mistake and it is reflected in this video, if you look at the "tips for buying" text guide section towards the end of the video. I hope that will help you clear up any misunderstandings.
Thank you for watching,
Best regards,
TGV
@@theurbangentry Thanks TGV for your answer, I really appreciate it and I'm very glad it's not a sponsored video. I did find your advice at the end of the video very useful. As stated before, I enjoy your indepth review videos very much (I'm a proud owner of a Sarb 033, timex marlin and 2 seiko 5s mainly thanks to them).
Best regards from BCN,
Tito
I have a Hamilton Khaki Field, winding with the crown is actually a very bad thing. I used to do that, and had to send the watch in for servicing after4 months. Turn the crown and the rotor spun around. I looked into this issue, and a watch winder is highly recommended for this watch.
The Wolf Winder counts how many times it turns
So, like, when I wear my watch for a full day, do I also have to count how many times I swing my arm so that I don't inadvertently over wind it
Hiyuke La Vie no that’s fine but he means if you have it in a continuous winder non stop this will over time be more winding vs the natural winding that comes with wear
Yes. But do not despair - help is at hand - if you wear a pedometer (it counts steps) you can assume that your arm wearing the watch has about half the number of swings as the number of steps you took. It may be a bit more since you may sit or lie down but still move your arm. Now the angular displacement of an arm swinging to walk is about 30° (measure yours for more accurate results). Now you need to know if the automatic winder is uni- or bi-directional. If bi-directional then use the original number of steps, otherwise divide by 2. Now, assuming that the weight in the automatic winding mechanism is always aligned with the ground, your arm will have moved through steps*30 degrees or steps*30/360 rotations.
You need to know the gear reduction of the winding mechanism to work out what this is doing to the mainspring. Apply this to find out how many turns the mainspring is wound by your movements during the day but subtract the number of turns the spring needs to unwind to keep the watch running during the time in question.
If your watch has a clutch mechanism to prevent overwinding, you're in luck. If not, please keep your arm still while walking. It looks a bit strange but you will get used to it.
I hope this was helpful.
I wish you'd have explained why the watch winders over wind the watch? Is it because the cheap ones run all of the time?
I never really thought about this until I saw a Watches TV video where they showed an Urwerk with a 'service gauge' on the back... which made me realise that watches aren't dissimilar to cars in that servicing is not dependent on time (people always talk in years) but on use. Watches can sit in a shop for years unsold, but they don't need servicing.
Versa watch winders are fully programmable 4 settings for number of rotations per day. Unidirectional or bidirectional. They work just fine.
Hi TGV
Didn’t know about this problem with over winding. Logical if you think about it...
I also have just a couple of watches in use at a time - one for work purposes and another for my spare time. The others are resting - after all you are wearing the movement when you use the watch. But it’s important to have them up & running every now and then, keeping the oils floating.
Keep up the good work👍
Absolutely my friend. You sound very much like me in that regard.
Thank you,
Best regards,
TGV
Do you periodically wind your watches that are in the safe, or does it matter if they stay stopped for a long period of time?
Great question, I do not let them sit for more then 2 months.
The older ones less as the oils are not synthetic (they dry quicker) and need more love.
Thank you Randy, I hope that helps.
Best regards,
TGV
I have a manual watch but I think the display of a watch winder is cool. Would putting a manual in a watch wider damage it or does it make no difference?
Do you stay really still when wearing a manual watch? Think about what you've asked 😂
I just bought one from Amazon that alternates clockwise and counterclockwise and is having different programs 4.5 mins with 55.5 brake on either direction or 4 mins clockwise with 26 pause, then 4 mins counterclockwise with 26 pause again or another one that alternates different times. It doesn't rotate all the time. It was a bit under £100. Pretty happy with that.
I’ve got an Avanti six-pod winder/safe, every pod is programmable with turns-per-day and rotation direction. I keep some complicated calendar pieces in there so I don’t spend an hour resetting them every time I put them on.
Good advice here TGV. I think watch winders could be very useful for watches with moonphase and calendar complications. My moonphase and calendar watches are basically time only watched with pretty looking dial since I only set the time when I wear them.
Hmmmm. Those wolf winders look nice, but at the price, I'm not so sure about their value.
I have a cheapo $35 Versa winder that has single direction or auto reverse direction settings, settings for how often it rotates the watch per 24 hours, and so far is whisper quiet and durable. Maybe the wolf ultimately lasts longer? Although I could buy 10 of these Versas for the same price of one wolf. From what I've been seeing, these features are fairly common even on cheap winders. Not arguing, just an observation. I agree that an automatic watch shouldn't be rotated constantly putting unnecessary wear on the rotator, spring, and clutch.
+ 1. !
this has helped me a lot. i wasn't really sure what i should get for a winder. so thank you
That's just told me exactly what I needed to know in one short video. Thanks. Great channel by the way, love your style of videos. 👍
I have a cheap winder from Amazon. You can select both rotation directions, or alternating option. I can also select between 4 different settings - number of rotations per day, 350, 650, 850 and 1050, plus an option to turn on light during its function. It was around 90 USD and for that price I think it is a steal. I use to wind-up my "work watch", because I am using it only couple of days in the week.
So, what's your opinion of an horologist manually winding his collection every day or so to keep the time and day/date complications in sync? Do you think it's better to just let them run down and then set them as the need arises for wearing?
Why? Just check that the one you are wearing that day is wound and set. Theres absolutely no point in winding your whole collection every day.
Paused the video to comment this, about watch winders over winding your watch
Hang on, if a watch winder can over wind your mechanical watch, does that mean wearing your watch the whole day when it's already fully wound also over winds it?
Because it's essentially the same thing isn't it?
The watch winder winds your watch by moving it, and when you wear your watch you are also winding it by moving it
but you aren't moving it constantly 24hours a day. that's the point of the video. you rest, just like your watch. not every winder considers this fact, hence they aren't as good as for example the Wolf one that TGV recommended.
This may be a stupid question, but: If constant movement of a watchwinder overwinds a watch - what about very active people? Should I not wear an automatic watch for a day-long hike?
I bought the Wolf Heritage 270402 a month ago before coming across this video. It has extra storage on top for additional watches or straps. Glad I made the choice based on your recommendation in this video. I believe it has 900 turns a day along with an alternate direction setting and a 12 hour delay option as well. Always have it set with the 12 hour delay. Seiko Sarb033 and Citizen NB3010-52A currently. Love your channel and thanks for all the advice you pass along!
TVG mentions that some of the high-end winders "are even calibrated to specific movements and brands". Can anyone recommend a winder that would be ideal for my 1980s vintage Datejust (16014)? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
How he stretches a 1-minute video into a 7:24 is nothing short of amazing. Rambling after rambling and then more rambling.
Are there better (yet affordable) watch winders for specific movements? Most of mine are ETA 2824 based, but a couple are Valjoux 7750 and only one Seiko NH35 that I don't care as much about... so, what would be good for a basic ETA/Sellita? Ideally, I would have 2-3 watches ru ning at all times, the rest sitting....
I use Boxy watch winders. I have 2 stacks of 4 on a 4 power base that takes just one power input.
Hi there always love to watch tour videos, very informative and very well shot. I have 4 automatic watches. Longines hydro conquest, oris aquis, tissot visodate and a new omega seamaster planet ocean 600m. Which watch winder would you recommend and are they reliable as I don't want to damage the watches.
Love the video chum!!!! Just bought a longines hydroconquest automatic so I need all the advise an loving care you can give me😊
I got one for you if you ever see this. As a noob I thought a watch winder just replaced you/ your arm in keeping the watch moving naturally so it didn’t stop. Which now asks two questions. Either , 1 watch winders are crap and over wind you watch and potentially lead to failure or a shortened life. I mean who would put there watch in a spinning washing machine! Or 2, watch winders are ok like the one you mentioned and are the same as real time on the wrist. Which means the watch makers are pulling one over us as the watches are gonna break and fail under normal use anyway even the ridiculously over priced Rolex!!! Which is it? Your on the spot new fella....haha you started it!
Hello , quick question pls , I have an Oris GMT and Hamilton Khaki Aviation Xwind , both automatic,reading manuals apparently you cannot overwind them , what is your opinion , is it ok for me to stick it in the watch winder with a rest setting on? Automatic mechanism apparently you cannot overwind , am I getting this right ? Please advise ,thanks for your feedback
You show a Wolf Cub as your watch winder. When looking on the Wolf website, the Cub model is fixed at 900 TPD. My Rolex Submariner has a spec of 650 TPD. Don't I have to worry about the Wolf Cub over winding my watch?
So really how often should we put watches in the watch winders ? Yes, I do understand that occasionally we should still take them off the winders and give them some wrist time. At other times, when we don't wear them often, shouldn't we be putting them in the watch winders ? On the issue of over-winding a watch, isn't there a clutch to prevent most modern automatic watches from being over-wound (please TGV or anyone out there, correct me if I am wrong) ?
I have a watch that winds CW at 800 tpd and another watch that is bi-directional at 650tpd.
I just got the Wolf Cub winder, at bi-directional 900tpd, would this damage the CW watch if i use it? and also would it over wind the bidirectional 650tpd?
I personally never use winders. A lot of people feel they do no damage, but as you said, there is the potential of over winding. But I always view a movement for what it is, a machine. And like all machines we will never escape wear and tear. When not in motion, it can’t create wear🍻
I have to agree with you on a Wolf Designs winder. The module 2.0 is absolutely brilliant. The only watch I'm hesitant to put on it is my early 50's Omega Seamaster with the cal. 342 bumper movement. In order to wind properly, it needs an oscillating or swinging motion rather than the perfect spin of a winder. Parts are so scarce and the pendulum action is so violent, it's probably for the best that it gets rest when I'm not wearing it.
Great review. I would say though that there are many other decent winders than Wolf and even cheap winders can be used safely. The key to to find out the watch's ideal turns per day (TPD) and use the winders built in settings and/or a timer so as not to wind beyond that number.
TGV, thank you for your interesting channel .
Allow me to add my2cents to the topic:
I don't see how technically an automatic watch can be over wound.
It lies within the principle of an automatic watch that the clutch releases the spring from the winding mechanism once it is totally wound.
I agree, that I don't want the spring to be under 100% tension all the time as this would fatigue the spring and therefore (and because of the wear) one should not store an automatic watch in a winder, but to hold it wound up for a couple of days, the cheapest watch winder will do the job and can do no harm.
For little money (~ 50 $) you can find nicely made winders with different programs to run (rotating directions and speed).
The inferior quality argument is value under aspects of sustainability but apart from that:
What's the loss if a 20$ winder kicks the bucket after a while unless the 300$ model (like your suggested Wolf) doesn't last at least 15 times longer.
Let's say: 2 to 30 years ;-)
Sure: Under the sustainability aspect I do very much prefer things that are well made...
I do agree with your arguments. And if overwinding is still a concern, nothing stops me from plugging the winder on a timer, programmed to say for 5 hours on weekdays, leaving the mechanisms to rest during the weekends
Would this be suitable for vintage watches, especially for Seiko Panda Chronograph 6138-8020 and Citizen Bullhead Octogonal Chronograph
Hi, thanks for sharing. Just a question. How do we know our watches are uni or bi-directional? Thanks
Am i the only one that absolutely loves the Chronoswiss shown in the watchwinder? This one is just pure class. And Chronoswiss is one of the first brands i really knew because my dad owns a Chronoswiss Lunar for over 10 years. Juts glad to see one in your video!
Some people worry about watches deteriorating if they are left idle, so they buy a Winder. My personal opinion is that a mechanical watch that is left unwound suffers no wear and tear. I bought a Citizen Eagle 7 back in 1997 as a stand in for a watch that I had in for repairs. Well to make a long story short, the Eagle 7 spent the period 1998 to 2018 stored unwound in a drawer. I started wearing it again last Christmas and it hasn't missed a beat. So spending 20 years idle certainly didn't harm it at all.
So if you own one watch and wear it every day does that ruin it also?
Hi TGV, I think winders wind less than when I am wearing it on my wrist. My question is that if a watch is built to be worn everyday then how will a winder "damage" the watch compared to wearing it daily? Even a cheaper winder will have some sort of preset cycle that stops and alternate directions. I do rotates about 3 watches frequently, if I do not put it on winder, I will end up having to set the watch every 3 to 4 days. My next question is, will setting the watch so frequently be more "damaging" on the movement, crowns and etc...
I try to avoid cycling the screw down crown. But there’s no justification in daily use of a winder for overnight. So everything in moderation. If you set it aside for weekend, yeah a winder is appropriate, but set it aside for month? No. Letting it stop isn’t harmful. Running up the miles on your car while your not using your car isn’t recommended either.
I haven’t wound OR set my Rolex OP for many months on end, and I don’t have a winder.
How do you determined which way a watch charges on a winder . specifically a JWC Portuguese. Clockwise, counter clockwise or alternate ?
First, I like the channel. Second, I like the new short-form videos. Third, I have to disagree with you on this subject. BOXY winders offer 15 different options for number of turns per day which should cover virtually all watches. they also divide the number of turns so that it does a calculated number of turns per hour and then rests. Boxy's also have selectable rotation directions; clockwise, counter-clockwise and bi-directional. Since turns per day information is readily available, no watch in a winder set for the correct turns per day should ever become over-wound. Therefore, no damage is done and the next time you wear your watches, they will have the correct time.
Good points, TGV, however, I do know of a UA-camr called the Time Teller who keeps his Omega on a winder because the 1020 movement inside can easily be damaged by setting the date and time.
I have 3 automatics which i have in rotation, I normally swap watches after a week of wear, so the other 2 are kept on winders. I think if you have one on a winder that you only wear at weddings, christenings and funerals I don’t think it needs to be on a winder, does it really need to be running for 6 months when you aren’t actually wearing it?
I have few automatic watches most of them omegas - if I should be buying which watch winder I should be looking at . should I be opting for a single or a double motor - I am currently looking at wolf. if u could suggest model pls
My Versa wonders have settings for Clockwise, counter clockwise, or bi directional. And choices of 350, 650, 850, or 1,050 revolutions a day. Start with 350. If it isn’t enough go up. Mine all use 650 bidirectional. I think cheaper than wolf. They can make a little noise.
I love grabbing a watch off the winder and just going. Plus I love watching my watches on the winders. To me it’s like art made of one of my favorite things!
gjaddajg I feel your sarcasm
I hate to disagree with a watchmaker but I guess wearing your watch every day would harm it as well. I wear mine every day and I play saxophone so my hand especially the left is constantly shifting and moving around.
I don't own watch winder so I'm safe, I like to wind them my self every time I wear them, so like you said a won't damage the watch, Thank you my friend great advice 👍✌🤟 have a wonderful weekend love the explorer nice piece...
Is it worth getting a watch winder if i have one or two seiko 5 watches? Not sure if its worth paying for a watch winder for watches that cost around the same as the winder. Im new to watches so not sure what to do
I have a double Wolf Winder, mostly to play with. I am a Techno Nerd and a Watch Junkie.
~I use mine to keep the two watches I'll be wearing for the Month.
I use a Wolf winder, took it back because it was making a noise yet advertised as silent.
They agreed it wasn’t quiet enough and changed it, within two month the replacement was no better.
Not sure If I need to panic. I was winding my SRPB99K1 and felt resistance then heard a loud click. Was that the over-winding failsafe or did I just broke something?