You just spent 12 minutes talking about pickups but didn't provide any proof or sound comparisons to actually back up your claims. What a pointless video
One minute of googling for my pickups would have found you plenty of examples. Here's one ua-cam.com/video/epbsr95RHrA/v-deo.html. What a pointless comment.
@@mcbrian Yepp! You probably want to read the title of the videos you watch before commenting. He gave a perfect explaination of the issues regarding P90 into humbucker sized pickups. Otherwise, as you have demonstrated, you will look like a bell-end.
The video was clearly labeled as a discussion about pickup building. Where did you get the idea there would be demos and tone comparisons? What a pointless comment.
I know that I'm way late to this party, but thanks very much. In 12 minutes, I now understand why I've never happy with any humbucker-sized P90 pickup that I've tried and that I never will be. If I want a P90 sound, I need to figure out how to mount real P90s into the guitars I already have or buy guitars that fit them. While I'm a little disappointed because humbucker-sized P90s are fit tons of readily-available guitars, but your explanation makes it really clear why this approach can basically never work.
When they developed the Humbucker, they lost the sparkle and bite of the P90! I replaced the PAF Humbuckers on my 1962 ES335 with Humbucker sized P90s and they have great full single coil sound!
This is highly interesting info that has a first time publication on UA-cam. I have been building and repairing guitars professionally for 30 years and really like this video. I have pleased a lot of my clients with Seymour Duncan Phat Cat pickups for HB sized p90's in recent years, but I wonder if they can be bettered.. If so I am in the race!
Your video was exactly what I was looking for - though I had assumed nothing like it would exist. Having recently bought a Vox Bobcat V90, I am now a total P90 convert. I also realised why I had stopped playing my Epiphone Les Paul: it sounds terrible! (though it handles extremely well and looks great). The solution seemed easy - either sell the LP or fit P90s to it. But what a non-easy rabbit-hole ‘fit P90s’ has become…
Hi Alegree, Thank you so much bringing great clarity to what has been up 'til now more than a little bit confusing to me. You've also saved me a lot of £'s as I was about to invest some serious cash for HB sized P90's from a certain famous pickup company in the good ole US of A. Kind regards Paul
Interesting and pretty concise explanation of just what's going on inside humbucker sized P90 substitutes. Shouldn't be surprised really, manufacturers are responding to to a market requirement, ie; guitarists have humbucker equipped guitars and have decided they would like P90's but don't want to have their guitars physically altered to accommodate them. That's why I started looking at this sort of p/u, as my humbucker Les Pauls aren't as satisfying as my Junior, with a P90. There's a demo of your Murky Horizon humbucker format set on UA-cam, which is pretty good. Still trying to find a comparative between those and a soap bar or dog ear P90.
The SD phat cats sound divine. I'm sure lollar's hum sized p90s do, too, but have not run across any used to try. I've heard people dog the gibson p94s, but those were probably developed at a time when people wanted more output (they're just under 10k output). phat cats sound so nice compared to humbuckers on low gain that going back to a humbucker sounds muffled and flat/dead.
Very educational. So, what would you call a humbucker P90 then ? What I mean is if it’s not a bucker and not a P90, obviously the tone/sound would be one of it’s own. Not necessarily bad. I installed SD Phat Cats, wiring, caps & pots on an Epi LP plus top pro and I’m quite satisfied with it versus it’s original configuration (Epi Probuckers).
I wouldn't call it anything other than what it is. That's not to say because (most) don't hit the P90 tone on the head, they're objectively bad. But someone who is seeking a P90 tone in a humbucker sized package will usually be subjectively disappointed unless said precautions are taken with the design.
Thanks for the video. What is your opinion on the Dimarzio Bluesbucker? Although it has humbucker bobbins, doesn't this tune the coils to different resonances to replicate the sound of a P90? Slightly off topic, but have you considered making some T Top type pickups? You could call them Tree Tops! In keeping with the rest of your range. :)
I think the Bluesbucker suffers from exactly the same issue as described in the video for standard humbucker sized P90s, but probably a little worse due to an additional dummy coil added to it. It's compensated some what with 'virtual vintage', being additional ferrous material added inside the bobbin to increase the inductance and therefore requiring less winds for a certain output level. I love the name, but vintage accurate stuff isn't really my cup of tea (oversaturated market). Saying that I do have some short T top style magnets coming in shortly, so it'll be possible to spec out a T top style pickup in the custom shop.
Good point Brad. Like guitars and amplifiers pickups can vary in tone and character even between the same brand/model. The pickup’s design specifications will get us into the ballpark as what to expect concerning their performance and tone. Past that it pretty much boils down to a try them out and see how they sound. I’m sure I’m not alone having the experience of a known great pickup losing its greatness when installed into a different guitar. Or purchasing the same model pickup only to find its performance lacking when installed into a different guitar. After years of trying pickups I’ve come to the conclusion that what I really prefer is often now what I expected.
I appreciate your knowledge base and willingness to take on this issue, but 12 mins of video with no practical demonstration--c'mon. My experience with unorthodox P90s is limited. However, I owned a set of the Kinman P90 hx (not humbuckers, per se) and thought those pickups were great.
My take from this is there p-90's and not p-90's. Sorry to simplify it so much, but there is a certain dynamic about the construction and dimensions that cannot be changed. Thanks!
@@danielshields1134 Probably not easily. I'd suggest some socket capped poles like an SD invader to widen the magnetic field would probably be the easiest way to modify an existing P90. Starting from scratch, it would be a lot easier with a bespoke bobbin.
Thank you Alegree for the time you spent explaining these things. It all makes sens! But would you know who markets the "right" P90s humbucker size? Could you provide us with some brands or specific models. Cheers! Jérôme
But what is the DC resistance on a P90? I've seen a few at 7K or 8K. You cannot put this into a humbucker sized pickup? And why not make plastic covers the capacitance is an issue?
We can fit nearly 10k of 42 awg onto our custom bobbins. Plastic covers reduce the capacitance, which is counter to what we're trying to achieve. Using example numbers (that are probably not remotely accurate, but sufficient for an example), lets say a taller bobbin reduces the overall coil capacitance by 10% relative to a standard P90 coil. If a cover adds 10%, we're back at 100% - where we started with a standard P90 with a plastic cover.
@@Alegree , if I understood correctly, the Desert Dew has a humbucker-like bobin, and the other P90 humbucker sized pickups have a wider and taller bobin ?
Great video, and very informative. Are the 'Old Timer' humbucker sized P90's built this way, and how would you rate the really nicely (cheap) priced 'Old timer' pickups compared to your 'Alegree' ones (which are also really affordable)?
Except it'll be pretty much unusable because stacking coils is subtractive, as opposed to a humbucker being additive. You'll be left with a very low output pickup, unless you used an exceptionally high output 7 string humbucker.
@@Alegree what do you mean? It's still the same amount of winds as a p90 but humbucking, 7 string bobbin is longer, and you still have the 2 bar magnets. Try it out first you'll most likely love it.
@@abrahamyanes2405 In a humbucking configuration the two coil signals are in phase, when it's in a stacked configuration the two coil signals are out of phase.
I bought one of your Chameleon (neck) pickups used on Reverb.com, (single coil, P-90, humbucker). I like it pretty well so far, I managed to get it all wired up with many of the sounds it can make with help from your website. Could you do a video on it? Or maybe chat a bit about it in this thread?
You just spent 12 minutes talking about pickups but didn't provide any proof or sound comparisons to actually back up your claims. What a pointless video
One minute of googling for my pickups would have found you plenty of examples. Here's one ua-cam.com/video/epbsr95RHrA/v-deo.html. What a pointless comment.
@@Alegree one minute of googling found me thirty videos, all of which were better than this one
@@mcbrian Yepp! You probably want to read the title of the videos you watch before commenting. He gave a perfect explaination of the issues regarding P90 into humbucker sized pickups. Otherwise, as you have demonstrated, you will look like a bell-end.
I also struggle from a severely short attention span but we shouldn’t take it out on people who can actually understand and explain pickups
The video was clearly labeled as a discussion about pickup building. Where did you get the idea there would be demos and tone comparisons? What a pointless comment.
I know that I'm way late to this party, but thanks very much. In 12 minutes, I now understand why I've never happy with any humbucker-sized P90 pickup that I've tried and that I never will be. If I want a P90 sound, I need to figure out how to mount real P90s into the guitars I already have or buy guitars that fit them. While I'm a little disappointed because humbucker-sized P90s are fit tons of readily-available guitars, but your explanation makes it really clear why this approach can basically never work.
When they developed the Humbucker, they lost the sparkle and bite of the P90! I replaced the PAF Humbuckers on my 1962 ES335 with Humbucker sized P90s and they have great full single coil sound!
What brands were they and how much did they cost,
@@dancotterman1267 - GFS (Guitar Fetish) Dream 90s - $US 29.95 each - look great - wonderful sounding pickups!
Great video except now I want to take the covers off the humbucker sized P-90's i have to see the coils!
This is highly interesting info that has a first time publication on UA-cam. I have been building and repairing guitars professionally for 30 years and really like this video. I have pleased a lot of my clients with Seymour Duncan Phat Cat pickups for HB sized p90's in recent years, but I wonder if they can be bettered.. If so I am in the race!
Your video was exactly what I was looking for - though I had assumed nothing like it would exist.
Having recently bought a Vox Bobcat V90, I am now a total P90 convert. I also realised why I had stopped playing my Epiphone Les Paul: it sounds terrible! (though it handles extremely well and looks great). The solution seemed easy - either sell the LP or fit P90s to it. But what a non-easy rabbit-hole ‘fit P90s’ has become…
Hi Alegree, Thank you so much bringing great clarity to what has been up 'til now more than a little bit confusing to me. You've also saved me a lot of £'s as I was about to invest some serious cash for HB sized P90's from a certain famous pickup company in the good ole US of A. Kind regards Paul
Interesting and pretty concise explanation of just what's going on inside humbucker sized P90 substitutes. Shouldn't be surprised really, manufacturers are responding to to a market requirement, ie; guitarists have humbucker equipped guitars and have decided they would like P90's but don't want to have their guitars physically altered to accommodate them. That's why I started looking at this sort of p/u, as my humbucker Les Pauls aren't as satisfying as my Junior, with a P90. There's a demo of your Murky Horizon humbucker format set on UA-cam, which is pretty good. Still trying to find a comparative between those and a soap bar or dog ear P90.
And thanks for not doing the sound comparison I find these to be mostly irrelevant because no one plays what I play!
The SD phat cats sound divine. I'm sure lollar's hum sized p90s do, too, but have not run across any used to try. I've heard people dog the gibson p94s, but those were probably developed at a time when people wanted more output (they're just under 10k output).
phat cats sound so nice compared to humbuckers on low gain that going back to a humbucker sounds muffled and flat/dead.
Very educational. So, what would you call a humbucker P90 then ? What I mean is if it’s not a bucker and not a P90, obviously the tone/sound would be one of it’s own. Not necessarily bad. I installed SD Phat Cats, wiring, caps & pots on an Epi LP plus top pro and I’m quite satisfied with it versus it’s original configuration (Epi Probuckers).
I wouldn't call it anything other than what it is. That's not to say because (most) don't hit the P90 tone on the head, they're objectively bad. But someone who is seeking a P90 tone in a humbucker sized package will usually be subjectively disappointed unless said precautions are taken with the design.
Very informative - thanks!
Is there a way to measure the total capacitance as well as inductance to compare the two?
Thanks for the video. What is your opinion on the Dimarzio Bluesbucker? Although it has humbucker bobbins, doesn't this tune the coils to different resonances to replicate the sound of a P90? Slightly off topic, but have you considered making some T Top type pickups? You could call them Tree Tops! In keeping with the rest of your range. :)
I think the Bluesbucker suffers from exactly the same issue as described in the video for standard humbucker sized P90s, but probably a little worse due to an additional dummy coil added to it. It's compensated some what with 'virtual vintage', being additional ferrous material added inside the bobbin to increase the inductance and therefore requiring less winds for a certain output level.
I love the name, but vintage accurate stuff isn't really my cup of tea (oversaturated market). Saying that I do have some short T top style magnets coming in shortly, so it'll be possible to spec out a T top style pickup in the custom shop.
I've found as much difference between different p90's as a good p90 humbucker shape and a real one.
Good point Brad. Like guitars and amplifiers pickups can vary in tone and character even between the same brand/model.
The pickup’s design specifications will get us into the ballpark as what to expect concerning their performance and tone.
Past that it pretty much boils down to a try them out and see how they sound.
I’m sure I’m not alone having the experience of a known great pickup losing its greatness when installed into a different guitar. Or purchasing the same model pickup only to find its performance lacking when installed into a different guitar.
After years of trying pickups I’ve come to the conclusion that what I really prefer is often now what I expected.
I appreciate your knowledge base and willingness to take on this issue, but 12 mins of video with no practical demonstration--c'mon. My experience with unorthodox P90s is limited. However, I owned a set of the Kinman P90 hx (not humbuckers, per se) and thought those pickups were great.
You could just look up a demo of my humbucker sized P90s ua-cam.com/video/epbsr95RHrA/v-deo.html&
i've put Z-90 p.u.'s by Harmonic Design in my lespaul and NEVER went back......
My take from this is there p-90's and not p-90's. Sorry to simplify it so much, but there is a certain dynamic about the construction and dimensions that cannot be changed. Thanks!
Not a rare opinion at all :) What dynamic would you consider to be quintessentially P90 that cannot be duplicated?
@@Alegree The squawk -- i.e. compared to the quack of a Strat single and the mud of an HB
I want two p90s crammed into a humbucker, that will fit under a soapbar cover. Is it possible?
The closest thing you'd get to that is a very high output P90 sized rail humbucker with spacer magnets.
Can a normal p90 fit inside a 7 string humbucker chassis and work properly?
No, you'll have issues with poles completely misaligned on a 7 string.
@@Alegree is there a way to add correctly spaced poles while keeping the same bobbin & mold type for a 7 string?
@@danielshields1134 Probably not easily. I'd suggest some socket capped poles like an SD invader to widen the magnetic field would probably be the easiest way to modify an existing P90. Starting from scratch, it would be a lot easier with a bespoke bobbin.
Thank you Alegree for the time you spent explaining these things. It all makes sens! But would you know who markets the "right" P90s humbucker size? Could you provide us with some brands or specific models. Cheers! Jérôme
Most of our vintage styled humbucker sized P90s utilise these concepts.
@@Alegree thank you! I didn't realize that you are a pickup manufacturer. Cheers.
The main thing that's bugging me is that I can't seem to find anyone who's made humbucker sized with magnetised alnico5 pole pieces
I've made those lots of times before.
Look on ebay, they are all over
But what is the DC resistance on a P90? I've seen a few at 7K or 8K. You cannot put this into a humbucker sized pickup?
And why not make plastic covers the capacitance is an issue?
We can fit nearly 10k of 42 awg onto our custom bobbins.
Plastic covers reduce the capacitance, which is counter to what we're trying to achieve.
Using example numbers (that are probably not remotely accurate, but sufficient for an example), lets say a taller bobbin reduces the overall coil capacitance by 10% relative to a standard P90 coil. If a cover adds 10%, we're back at 100% - where we started with a standard P90 with a plastic cover.
@@AlegreeI didn't know you sell them. Anyway, most P90 'soapbars' are 7-8k, but the Gibson is 9.1, so you probably need something bigger.
are all your humbucker sized P90's built this way?
All except the Desert Dews.
@@Alegree , if I understood correctly, the Desert Dew has a humbucker-like bobin, and the other P90 humbucker sized pickups have a wider and taller bobin ?
@@sylvestre.rawminey They're not any wider, not as far as winding space is concerned.
Is the humbucker-sized Dust Storm built using that larger bobbin?
Yes it is.
@@Alegree What about the others? Are they on different bobbin sizes?
Great video, and very informative. Are the 'Old Timer' humbucker sized P90's built this way, and how would you rate the really nicely (cheap) priced 'Old timer' pickups compared to your 'Alegree' ones (which are also really affordable)?
No they aren't. Our Old Timers are made to a price point, our hand wound series are made with the best tone in mind.
@@Alegree Thanks :-) However, they still sound awesome even if they are the cheapest .
Does the Bare Knuckle Mississippi Queen use the taller bobbin you talked about?
I've no idea, I couldn't comment on other manufacturers products.
Why do humbucker size P90 fuck?
Hear me out..
Take a 7 string humbucker.
Stack the coils and sandwich 2 bar magnets in between.
Keep it on the humbucker plate, then you have a hum-90
Except it'll be pretty much unusable because stacking coils is subtractive, as opposed to a humbucker being additive. You'll be left with a very low output pickup, unless you used an exceptionally high output 7 string humbucker.
@@Alegree what do you mean?
It's still the same amount of winds as a p90 but humbucking, 7 string bobbin is longer, and you still have the 2 bar magnets.
Try it out first you'll most likely love it.
@@abrahamyanes2405 In a humbucking configuration the two coil signals are in phase, when it's in a stacked configuration the two coil signals are out of phase.
@@Alegree lol just flip the 2 magnets then
@@Alegree here.. This Dylan Talks Tone video will help you build it.
ua-cam.com/video/RzUBvLovclg/v-deo.html
I bought one of your Chameleon (neck) pickups used on Reverb.com, (single coil, P-90, humbucker). I like it pretty well so far, I managed to get it all wired up with many of the sounds it can make with help from your website. Could you do a video on it? Or maybe chat a bit about it in this thread?
There's already one up, shot with CGS here ua-cam.com/video/FrzaOWdjTZA/v-deo.html
Very informative. Thank you!