I just put a 195/60R/16 on my 1800. It's a directional tire, I felt that would be a good choice. A little snug getting it up past the differential, but no rubbing while running. I've made curves tight enough to drag the floorboards on both sides. I can't tell any difference from the m/c tire in curves. Put 32psi in the tire, it rides very well. No wet riding yet, but I'm expecting it to do it well. There is a lot of construction being done on the Interstate near my home, lots of grooves and uneven pavement. I haven't seen or felt any problems when hitting any of the changes. I worried about changing lanes to new pavement when it's higher, but it's okay. You have to watch doing that, anyway, no matter what tire you run. A couple hundred miles so far and only positive experiences.
I've been running dark with Kuhmo rear on my 2005 GL 1800 for about 7000 miles. To me it feels like the bike wants to stay upright due to the flatness profile of the tire. However, this week I noticed the cords showing through on one edge of the tire. I decided to go back to Bridgestone Exema Max on rear. OMG, it acts like a real motorcycle again. Turns on a dime. I won't go back to dark.
Mine was darksided when I bought it. I gave it 2 months. After getting kicked around on slightly rutted pavement and any other tiny deformation in the road, I couldn’t wait to get rid of the car tire. I agree you’re not going to die unless an angle in the road pitches you into a truck. No one can honestly say they don’t notice it. It just not true! You may have decided to accommodate for it, but you do have to accommodate for it.
This is one of the best Darkside videos I have seen. I switched to darkside a few years ago on my yamaha vstar. I did my research and prob looked around at the info that was available for well over 6 minths before I did it. Best decision I had made. What gets me going are the Naysayers with Zero experience of riding Darkside. Thank you for this well put together video.
Hey so I have a 2007 yamaha vstar 650 classic, does a tube still work on the car tire for the rear of the bike? If so,what tube, and what size car tire would fit? Also, did you swap the front tire as well??.
I am new to the Darkside. We have gl1800. I put a Toyo 195/55r16 on the rear and a Battlax bt46 on the front. Was able to mount both tires my self using the zip tie method. The Toyo Extensa hp2 was easier to put on than any motorcycle tire I have done. It sealed first try with no leaks. The reason that I decided to go darkside was the fact my wife has had back surgery. The harsh jolting ride from the motorcycle tires was a real problem for her. Double dark siding has really improved the ride comfort for both of us. The ride is plush yet the bike handles just fine.
Interesting Scott. Your attitude toward the darkside mirrors mine almost exactly. A few years ago I would have never considered it. I went dark about a year ago and it's great. Good video!
Best treatment I've ever seen on this topic - comes across as well-informed, balanced and objective! Too bad I just bought a proper MC tire set or I'd give this a try right now.
Great video review on this subject! I decided to try it 2 years ago with a General Altimax R43 and on day one I was grinning from ear to ear. I will never go back after thousands of safe miles in dry or wet. The contact patch as you pointed out is so much greater and it instills a level of confidence I never experienced with a motorcycle tire. “Search your feelings Luke, the Power of the Darkside is strong!” 😂
Great perspective. Having been a darksider for more than 10 years it’s refreshing to see someone actually rationally discuss darksiding. I pretty much ignore the naysayers. Thank you. My philosophy is simple - My damn bike; My damn decision.
Until you’re in an accident regardless of fault when the insurance man sees a car tire you’re done! You’re at fault and the insurance company denies coverage!
@@urgadurga3299 b.s. I’ve been unfortunate that I’ve had 2 accidents where I’m not at fault where people pulled out right in front of me. Two different insurers and the CT was never an issue. The only “legal” requirement is that a tire has to be DOT approved. That is directly from the appraiser surveying the bike for repair. The only time the tire becomes an issue is if you’re using a racing slick or off-road tire neither of which are DOT approved for highway use. Get your facts straight.
@@urgadurga3299 Did you watch the video??? He addresses that and he can not find ONE incident of an insurance company denying coverage. You have a DOT tire on the bike. They pay. PLEASE feel free to sight an instance of denial based on darkside, I am willing to hear your point, not just an internet anecdote though.. Proof of some kind.
My Dad got a WWII surplus Harley in 1946/47...he ran car tires front and back: that was all anyone could get! Later in life he ran a car tire on his, yes, Bergman 650! I have one on my GL1500. They seem more stable in gravel also. Good summation!
Definitely the most informative and rational video I have seen on Darksiding. I've logged well over 300,000 miles on 4 different GL1800's. The Pro's outweigh the con's probably 100 to 1. I won't ever go back. Thanks for the video.
Well, I've been runnging "Darkside" for years and years. I guess I must have survived it because, I'm here typing!!! As normal, different riders will convey different experiences with C/T's. First off, I have never ran a *Run-flat* C/T. Mine have all been normal C/T's. Guess what, STILL NOT DEAD YET! Run what you like and think is appropriate, it's your bike. As for getting used to a C/T, well, it took me about a city block to get used to it. I feel no rise in bike height as I hit corners. No wanting of the bike to straighten itself out after a corner due to the potential desire for the bike to go back to riding on the flat part of the tire, nope, not happening. I ride, I corner, I accelerate, I decelerate, I brake, I ride two up, I ride single, I carry things, I tow a trailer, and all the combinations above, STILL HERE! Your choice here. SR
I went to the dark side after a couple of years of research looking for anyone who had problems with it. Could not find anyone who had an issue with a car tire. So, made the switch and love it. You didn't mention one of the main "Pros" of a car tire - run flat. A blow out with a motorcycle tire could be fatal. With a run-flat car tire, no big deal.
That's true, although run-flat tires don't come in sizes that fit the GL1500. The Kumho runflat I show in the video is an excellent option for the GL1800 however.
I've thought of doing this before but always listened to the naysayers but you addressed every question or concern I had so I'm going to give it a try. I actually could use a new back tire so no better time than the present. Thanks!
I run a Dunlop SP WinterSport 3D runflat 175/60R16 on the rear of my GL1800. Does a great job and very little difference in feel when cornering than the traditional MC tire. And I ride fairly aggressive. Oh, and good video.
Thank you for an objective review on the Darkside issue. I ran a 205/70 15" on my old Shadow and that is the same size I plan to use on my 1300 VTX. There are several different brands that riders are using with very good results.
WingAdmin, I agree 100% about what you said regarding Darksiders. They are quick to tell you you’re wrong and here’s why…all I’ve ever tried to say on the forums is “says a lot about the engineering of car tires, eh?” and that somehow means I’m against the idea. I’m not. I had an Austone. But I’ve given up, the double swing arm is just too tight to allow anything in. I’ll never own a GL1800 but I have a Rune and those are MC tires. So it was fun while it lasted. As always, informative and entertaining!
I was on my second rear car tire (2014 GL1800). I love it, the only issue is the car tire wants to follow the contour of the road, but I got used to it. Oh, and when the tire pressure drops, it makes it really hard to put the Wing on the center stand.
I concur with his findings. I researched for 3 months before going dark and found the exact same thing as he did all the way down to insurance coverage. I didn't have snow to ride through but I used water and cones to measure my contact patch findings. As far as the difference in the corners I think a RF tire does maybe lift some on the edge but a use a NRF and do not get that feeling. Riding off or on a curb slowly you will get more of a push to the low side but you will get used to that quickly. A good friend of mine who was totally against me getting a ct rode my bike and when I asked him how it felt, he looked bewildered and said he never could tell the difference. As for my riding style and experience I do lock and lean riding, love rubbin a peg in the twisties and also tour,ing. I usually ride mostly 1 up. As I said I use a NRF tire, a Yokohoma Avid Ascend 195/60/16 at 32/34psi. Wear is nice and even all the way across. My last tire I had 42,000 miles on with tread left. Total miles in the darkside is approx 200,000 miles with zero problems. I have used beads to balance but currently use Ride On to balance and help stop leaks like with a nail or something. If you can see my profile pic, this is me at Cottonwood Pass in Colorado in 2019 and my tire had some 35,000 miles on it at that time. I'm not saying you have to buy a ct to run but I say to each their own and YOU make your own decision. Don't let someone who has never even tried one for any amount of time dictate to you what you should do. I personally got a second rim, put a ct on it and did my side by side tests and decided to go for it. I have never looked back and will never go back to a mt. Ride often and safe my friends!!
Thanks for your time and info, ride both 1800 goldwing and Harley electra, been riding for 56 yrs. I tow trailer also and have been sitting on the sideline for years on this issue. Most of my riding is mountain curving road and then highways for travel. I now think the Kumo would work well for my riding. Just need to find someone around Coeur d alene, Id. that will change the tire. Thanks again!
I actually just came upon this idea as my '12 wing (gifted to me by my pops) needs new tires. Long story short, I asked my long term Honda dealer service manager if he "promoted the darkside" He said no but he would be more than happy to mount a CT on my bike.........just don't expect him to test ride it. He went throgh the same speal that this video started with. Watching this and reading all your comments is sending me there. Thank you all!
Thanks for the video. Very good presentation. I rode a Suzuki burgman 659 and went to the dark side. Got a lot of negative comments. But never changed the rear tire for 4 years. Now I’m on a 1800gl next rear tire will be dark.
Good video. Thanks. Most of your comments reflect mine. I just do not notice any problem except when going 5 miles an hour on a rough parking lot or backing up over rough terrain. Thanks again for the video.
Im going to the darkside tomorrow on my GL1800. My friend has been doing it for years now and is happy with its performance. Im going with the Hankook Optima H426B 195/55R16 RSF run flat. Thanks for the video, well done.
Thank you. I just bought a 1984 Goldwing 1200I. I'm going to be doing fabrication to a bolt on trike kit to install on her, after cleaning and maintenance. It will be the only way my wife will ride with me again and we aren't young like we were 15 years ago. I will investigate this more. Thank you again from East Tennessee.
I recently dark sided my 85 Gold Wing 1200GL and love it. The Nexen 165/80/15 car tire has improved my braking, grip and water displacement. Cornering is no problem and I can still scrape foot pegs occasionally. I'm running 37Psi. ....I'm Staying on the Dark Side !!! Thanx Scott for a very fair & objective video !
Thank you for your video on this topic. It was very informative; with facts, not just opinions. I have been a member of Goldwingdocs since 2011 and have gotten very valuable information from you and other contributors over the years. I just realized you are now on UA-cam as well. I will subscribe. I also hope to be able to meet you at one of your annual gatherings some day. Thanks
This was a great video. Especially when you showed actual tire function in curves. I am contemplating darkside for my 21 Gwing. This definitely put my mind at ease
Same with my ‘21 Wing. At near $300 a pop for the factory Dunlops, I’m not excited about replacing my tires every 7k miles every year. Prior to my wing, I ALWAYS thought darksiding was patently ridiculous…when I rode an R6 or my VTX1300. On my wing and with the expense of the rear MC tires, I’m beginning to come around to the idea.
Same with my 23 dct. In fact about to go darkside today with 195/55 R16 Michelin primacy 4. Looking to get more traction and grip esp in wet conditions. Will update after getting some miles on the set up
thanks for the good informative vid. just doing some final research before I darkside my Electra Glide. I'm doing it largely because I pull a fairly large trailer and my rear tire milage is poor as a result. I'm not concerned about doing it from any aspect at all. I'm looking forward to it a lot and I'm actually dropping my wheel diameter by 1 inch which will shorten my gearing just a bit which I want to do as well. once again ...thanks for the well done and informative video
As someone who HAS tried darksiding/has experience with it, I'll NEVER EVER EVER do it again!!! Why,?.....well, it almost cost me my life, that's why!!!! In 2011 I Installed a freaking car tire on the back of my 2010 GL1800 (a Yokohama AVID ENVigor) and had about 1000 miles on it so it was well broke in. Traveled up to my old stomping grounds from a year back, up in northern Minnesota to do some nice summertime riding one weekend and got on a 5 miles stretch of twistys that I was very familiar with from when I used to live in the area a year prior. Everything was fine until halfway through one of the twistys going 55 mph (cruise control set) like I had always done previously, when all of a sudden the ass end of my bike went out from under me and I slid and crashed into a guard rail. I'd taken that exact same curve, oh god, at least 200 times previously and at always 55mph, and also on that same bike with never a problem, but had always had actual MC tires on it. Reason for the crash was 100% because of that stupid ct on my bike, that squared off edge of the car tire bit me and bit me hard!!!. After crashing and getting up and dusting myself off, checking out my cuts & scrapes and then calling authorities, I started trying to asses what the heck had just happened and noticed a beautiful 40 ft or so long black curving rubber mark on the pavement where my back CAR TIRE had lost traction and slid out. Nope, pavement was dry, was an 80 degree day and there was no oil or tar snakes on that stretch of curve at all. Anyway, I ended up with only cuts, scrapes and bruises out of the ordeal but my one year old 2010 Goldwing that I still owed a bunch of money on was a total loss after sliding and then hitting the guard rail. To make matters worse, when the insurance adjuster (from Progressive Ins) checked out the bike, he immediately noticed the CAR TIRE on the bike and instantly denied my claim. So there has been documented cases where Ins has denied claims, and I'm not the only one this has happened to!! I ended up going to court against the insurance company and lost my case because as the rep from progressive stated to the judge, I had a tire that was made for a car or light truck/suv ONLY, not a motorcycle, and has the totally wrong bead profile that doesn't match or seat up properly on a motorcycles rim profile. Being "D.O.T. approved or not doesn't mean diddle squat when the case is argued infront of a judge, I tried that argument to no avail.. That darkside experience ended up costing me $17,000. But to each their own, if you wanna darkside that's fine, it's your life. I guess maybe after my mishap darksiding, I realized that I actually value my life a little more than I thought I did. Plus, god forbid, if you ever wreck your bike, whether or not the tire had anything at all to do with why you wrecked, and the ins adjuster sees a car tire on your bike, you're f&^%$ked!!
@Rita Mae I could honestly give two hoots if you believe me or not. I've got the road rash scars on my right shoulder, across the right side of my back and right calf to prove it. Also, while telling my story to some of the members of our local Oskaloosa Iowa Goldwing club, one of the members chimed in after I'd told my story saying the almost identical thing had happened to him also. Accept his accident happened on his 2 yr old 2018 Wing, of which his insurance carrier denied his claim costing him even more than my accident had cost me. That being said, it seems that my situation being a total DUMBASS by putting a car tire on a motorcycle isn't a 1/1,000,000,000 accident after all........
You got screwed then. I purchase crashed Harley’s and other motorcycles at insurance auctions all the time and see dark sided motorcycles run through the auction all the time. So yes insurance does cover them. Maybe you opened your mouth when you shouldn’t have. In my experience insurance adjusters don’t know much about motorcycle let alone how to identify a ct to a mt
@gerralstephens2833 100% false. Ran through that area more than a 100 times prior (at 55 mph) with never a problem. First time through darksiding, and the ass end of the bike slid out. Had nothing to do with cruise control WHATSOEVER......
It's like our host said. It's the riders who have never ridden with CT that find fault. And like ur experience. I take ur word for it Brother. But I have half a million miles on CT. And never once not once ever had a slight skid in conditions way worse than you described. Be careful on ur selection of CT. Just like mc tires. Not all are the same. Best of luck. Be safe out there.
Been riding for 50 years. Darksiding a motorcycle. Depends on who you ask. I sold engineering plastics and thermoplastic rubber compounds before I retired. So, what's the primary difference between a motorcycle tire and a car tire? Besides the obvious shape is the rubber compounds. The hardness or as we say "Durometer" of the rubber compounds in a car tire are much harder and designed for abrasion resistance. Thus much better wear. Well you say, I've got to have a car tire! Not so fast Pilgrim. There's a fundamental reason why motorcycle tires have a lower durometer or softness. It gives you much better grip. Plus, when leaning heavily on a car tire, you are significantly losing contact area on the road. So, here's my advice. If you ride like an old man and don't lean much, then go for it. If you ride like me leaning heavily in the turns, then you'd be a fool and maybe dead with a car tire..
Thank you for using real world personal experience to debunk the dark side. I don't take long trip on my bikes otherwise I would do exactly what you've done on my GL1000, GL1100 and GL1500.
I bought a R1200RT with a car tire with a much less rounded shape than these shown in your video, and it worked amazingly well in spite of the square shoulders. It made me a believer too. Great video. Thanks.
Great discussion on the topic! I'm not going to dark side my Wing, but I know MANY MANY riders who have, and they love it. It's just personal preference for me. I've read the technical reasons for not doing it, and that's all well and good, but at the end of the day, it's up to the owner. Regardless of what people do with tires (or oil), please ride safely!!
I am 100% convinced this is the way to go. Looks fantastic. The only downside that I can conceive is fuel mileage might be effected due to more friction. A trade off that in my eyes that is well worth the advantages. I am about the be the owner of a 2000 Valkyrie, this will be one of my first mods. Nice video as with the others I have seen from this channel. My only complaint with this channel is he needs to be wearing a hat. I’m bald and seeing a perfect head of hair like that is distracting me. 😅😂 Cool channel
A representative from Dunlop tires went around at americade and check the air pressure of the motorcycles are especially the big gold wings that were loaded to the hilt and found that more than 50% had less air than what they were supposed to have. This aspect needs to be considered.
Nice video I recently went Darkside on my vn1700 first tyre 195/65/16 I went a bit taller for extra height and within a few hours of riding I was back to scraping my floor boards I've now just replaced it with a 205/60/16 as I wasn't sure if I could go 65 All I can say is I'm so glad I tried it as I have no dramas with it at all and actually get alot more grip on all road conditions Biggest thing I've seen online is if it doesn't feel comfortable is adjust the air pressure a few psi to get the sweet spot
Thanks so much for posting been debating for years have not gone dark side of yet but sure will in future we are being ripped off by MC car companies high prices no mileage especially if you have heavy bike
Im one of those anti darkside riders, but also believe in freedom of choice. My only argument was with cornering due to tire design, but you have me rethinking my position, especially in the wet. I would never go dark side on my lighter bikes, but I recently aquired a 2004 Goldwing and may try it out. Thanks.
On a Goldwing you won't be disapointed. I went dark on my first Honda Goldwing and put a little over 8K miles on it when I had to get rid of it. My new Wing (new to me) came with new tires and I already ordered a rim and runflat ct for it so when the MT wears out i'm taking this wing to the dark side. Just like he said you will feel the added grip on take off and braking, riding thru monsoons and I never once felt the bike become unstable. Also like he said its a personal choice but I believe once you try it on a Goldwing or other 8-9 hundred pound bike you will love it.
Just something on your comment and lighter bikes. A friend mounted one on his BWM adventure bike and he has absolutely loved it. Now he does not do serious off roading but gravel roads and such. He still loves it.
I bought a 2001 Goldwing several years ago. It was already on a car tire when I bought it, it was on the same tire when I sold it a couple years later. I could easily drag all kinds of parts in the twisties without a moments hesitation.
@countryjoe3551 This answers my question. A bungee can help with scraping those pesky foot pegs. Also, keeping the suspension at the maximum height makes a huge difference.
I've never seen nor heard of this before a few weeks ago. I love in the Black Hills of South Dakota and I saw a bike in Rapid City with a car tire. Blew my mind.
I'm glad I saw this video. I have an 1800 that needs tires. I bought it used and have already put a good 10,000 miles on the tires it came with. I'm also getting a little pull trailer. Sounds like going to the other tire is going to be a win/win. Seeing your riding video clinches it. I had wondered about cornering, but I can see there is plenty of tread on the ground. Thanks!
2003 Wing, first CT on it and have so far 9,500 miles on it. No issues. Part of those miles are on the Dragon and some with pulling a trailer. I’m running a Pirelli P1 Run Flat 195/55-16 at 36psi. Far as cornering / leaning, again, no issues. I’ve scrapped my foot pegs.
@@martinmartinez2877 You can scape the bottom of your foot pegs on a Goldwing IF you lean it over far enough in a curve. I’ve never damaged my foot pegs, just a little minor scratches on the bottom.
It’s like everything in life. Personal choice. I don’t judge what other adults do with their machines. As for me, I am on the fence still, but I am not opposed to moving in that direction when I decide to.
Yes CT handles differently, More counter steering in turns. What everybody doing these videos never seem to point out is that a MT also requires more counter steering pressure in turns once your MT gets about half worn. If you look at it, it is also flat across the middle with a flat area about equal to a CT.
I had thought about going to the dark side on my 1993 GL1500 with a Champion Sidecar. It Doesn't lean that much and I put a lot of miles on my bike in a year. My last Tire Blowout was around Christmas of 2018. Not sure what I ran over but it shredded. I was doing 70 MPH when it Blew. By the time I got to the Median my knee was on the sidecar and the engine was still running. Whew!
After removing MC tire prior to an extended trip, only to remount it after we got home to complete it useful life, I went to a car tire on the rear of my GL1800. Just this month mounted my second car tire after 20K miles on the first one and doubt I'll ever go back. BTW, the wear bars were not yet flush but I changed it out early to be safe, Point is, you likely spend more time/miles riding on a tire that is more than half worn out with the MC softer compound and higher expense of replacement . Just adding one more pro argument to the dark siders.
Very interesting. I had never heard of this ‘dark side’ of which you speak..(nod to Master Yoda😂). Very well presented for the pros and cons in a clear and easy to understand format. Great stuff, keep it up. I’m a gl1100 owner by the way, so I’m loving the content. Subscribed and liked. 👍
Great , I really appreciate the info . Answered questions I have had a long time. I used to be of the belief a car tire is made for a car period! If the feeling when cornering is to overwhelming I can see where it would be hard to make the change. Thanks again for your points on this often asked question. Big D Brownfield, Tx.
Today was my first time on a GL1500. Going around a wet, uphill turn, I broke the back tire loose. My eyes almost popped out of my helmet. Even with fresh tires, I am ready to try a car tire
Great information thanks I a VStrom rider and I haul Everything! I need on my bike was looking for the whys and why nots. Well I see no reason to not Thank
Double darkened and loving it! Bitter grip in the wet and way better grip on gravel roads my brigstones were done at 13,000 miles 7,000 on the car tire still looks new and cost $86 dollars at Walmart.
Awesome video Awesome info Ivbeen dark side for over 5 years and love it..... I need this video to send to my friends that are look for info about. Good job tks
VERY informative, thank you! I just bought a Honda PC800 from the owner of a motorcycle shop. He dark sided the rear and swears by it. So I wanted to do a little research. THANKS
I remember having a Harley 1944 in Argentina and the tires size was 600 x 16 same size my father Mercury car. I have tried on my Silverwing i drove from Alabama to Ushuaia and back to Buenos Aires the same size than a Mini Cooper because in Argentina Bridgestone o Metzeler or any other brans made motorcycle tires on the siza the Silverwing needed so after 35000 miles still driving on the Drk Side in South America.
I’ve said, I’ll never ever do this. Last week I bought a 2002 goldwing with car tire on it. I rode it cause it was already there. I am impressed. It rides the same, handles the same, corners the same. For now, I’m gonna run this tire till time to change it. At that time I’ll make my decision. But I’m leaning to staying darkside.
That is exactly how I was introduced to the Dark side. I bought my current Wing with a CT already on it. The owner swore by it. Well I had a 3 1/2 hour ride home to get used to it. It's been 9 years and I'm still running Dark. Even went double dark 5 years ago.
The Duro motorcycle tires I run on my Sportster generally run about $60 a piece, and the special Duro sidecar tires I get from Dennis Kirk are only $35 a piece.
I find that getting the air pressure just right on my Silverwing 600SC with a dark side makes a lot of difference. Slightly less air than the motorcycle version lets it flex and it feels just fine going around corners. I think I have a slightly bigger contact patch too. Too little is squirmy and too much makes it ride on the sharp edge and feel funny when cornering. For me, 31.5 lto 32 bs is just right but took a bit of experimenting. My brother in law swears by the run flat.
Thanks, I've made up my mind to try it. Got 62K miles on my bike and been thinking about this for probably 50K of that. Like you mentioned, I'm lucky to get 10K miles on a rear tire. I change my own tires so that part is not a problem. My rear wheel is 6X17 so I'm shopping for a 205/50/17 tire. This will be interesting to see how it goes. I ride year round and can easily do 7K miles a year just back and forth to work. So I'm going to give this a shot in a few weeks. 🙂
Got 13,500 miles on an E-3 on the rear and 15,000 miles on the front E-3. 2 years ago you couldn't find an E-3 to save your life, so I went with a Metzler 888 and so far very good. Mileage is around 7K on the rear and 6K on front. Still running.
Weight of the tire and maybe improved rear brakes are my questions. I wouldn't be concerned with hydroplaning anymore then I am in the rain on MC tires. With the increased contact surface, relearning braking and emergency braking would be mandatory. After riding solo for years I finally have a Lady that doesn't want to ride her own bike and enjoys just sitting on the back. Now to top that off I am painting our trailer to haul camping gear. I've always fit mine within the load pyramid of my bikes. Yes too often bikes over loaded have been brought to me with the riders complaining about ill handling. After checking the norms; tire pressure, balance, true and shock condition I've had to explain the load was too much and aft of the rear wheel. After watching this video I'll consider buying a car tire for my 06 GL1800 that we use for our rides and touring. But I will not consider one for my V-Twin long distance bikes. Although I still average 60,000 per year on those bikes combined. My Lady and I expect 40,000 miles per year touring. The car tire should outlast my front MC tire by at least four times. Thank You for you information and video. You all are in my prayers Hoka Hey
BTW, I ride an 06 Yamaha Stratoliner. I shared you video on our Yamaha stratoliner forum. For info, I run a Yokohama Avid Touring S, 215/60/17. With the factory Bridgestone front tire, the rear CT bossed the front tire. Imput into the bars had to be made throughout the turns/curves. I went to a Dunlop American Elite tire up front and it totally changed my handling. It bosses the rear tire. It feels like it did before. Like there is a MT front and rear. The American Elite is a much rounder tire than the Bridgestone. I think what's happening is the rounder American Elite tire leans the bike, before the rear tire can stand it back up. I love it. And it rides that way one-up or two-up. Best air pressure is 38lbs front and rear. My two Harleys have MT's. Their rims are too skinny for a CT. I'll never go back to a MT on my Stratoliner.
I live in Louisiana, and they’re cracking down on motorcycle inspections. In Shreveport, there’s literally one dealer that is certified. I’m going to bet they won’t pass this, and don’t care what I say.
Their is no federal law that states that a car tire on a motorcycle will not pass on Inspection. Only if your tire is not DOT approved. Have the Inspection shop pull it up and they will not be able too. Educate them or go to another Inspection station.
I ran a car tire on the back of a 1012 Vulcan 1700. The edges of the tread was wearing noticeably at 16k miles. Still way better than the 3500 miles I got out of the original tire. I now ride an Indian Springfield. The original rear tire got 13k miles easy enough, but was cupping. I was satisfied with that mileage, so I went back with an OEM rear tire.
You know I used to have a fair bit of cupping on my gold wing tires. I kept getting told - air pressure. OK so I took a set of OEM Bridgestone tires and went nuts checking the air pressure. I kept those tires within +/- 1 psi checking them with a Michelin digital pressure gauge every second ride. A PIA but I have 16K miles on them - no cupping yet. I am surprised...
Just Darksided my 2006 Burgman 400 with a 145/60R13 Michelin Compact Car Tire. I now have 400 miles & it's fully broken in. It's absolutely the most effective upgrade in ride, handling & confidence boosting for this 420# Maxi Scooter. Feels like an Air Ride suspension was installed. Far smoother over rough pavement - Hiway MPH creeps up rapidly due to increased smoothness. I burned through the prior Shinko 130/70-13 Bias ply MC tire in just 6,000 miles / 90 days ! All the Darkside reports say I'll get 4-6X longer lifespan. Just pinch me - there are NO downsides that I can see. It seems that Motorcyclists that think that new rear tires at 3x the cost @6-8,000 intervals are "normal" are the battered spouse in an abusive relationship with motorcycle tire companies, dealerships & mechanics. To my Brother cyclists, I say - leave your abusive "Spouse" - you'll fine the 'Darkside' to be more"Enlightening" than you can imagine ! Oh yeah, I made a video about my Darksided Suzuki Burgman 400 :
December of 2020 I installed an Achilles 155/70r13 on the rear of my 2008 Burgman 400. It was $35.00 shipped to my door. The last City Gripp I installed was $95 and wore out in 5,500 miles. The car tire has 8,000 miles on it and still looks new.
@@abnerbjorn1106 Wow Abner great story. How or who did mount your tire ? Any tips on their method ? I just had to swap out this tire finally at 10,000 miles. It had been installed by an Independent Motorcycle Shop in So Cal that had experience doing "Darkside" installs. But here in Texas at home, our local tire shop - God bless em - tried & failed to get it to set the bead, attempting to install a 155/65-70 Petlas radial tire. So, to get my Scoot back in action I bought a Pirelli Angel Scooter tire, one size up to 140/70R-13. It's said the Pirelli should WAY outlast the Short lived Shinko 130/70-13 that preceded it.
@@psalm2forliberty577 Mounting it was easy. I let it set in the Colorado sun for a half hour, and the tire went right on. 3 tire spoons and some tire lube. Getting the bead to set was a different story. I tried for 2 hours on my own, and then took it into a forklift / trailer tire shop to set ithe bead for me.
@@abnerbjorn1106 Right on ! I should have tried spoons. You mean the long chrome ones like Harbor freight sells ? Can they gouge the rim ? On setting bead, have you seen the very slick "bicycle inner tube" method to use it to fill the big gap ? A tight fitting on rim, the bicycle inner tube is applied over rim & pressed against top bead (use tire lube solution), thus forming air seal. Blast of air (valve core out helps) then pushes top bead up (bottom was already seated,) and inner tube is squeezed & you pull it out & upper bead should be set.
The first real motorcycle I rode on was a 1947 Harley Davidson with a tank shift, later that Summer the owner traded for a 1954 Harley Davidson 74 because it had a foot shift. I believe both of these had car tires on back. It was not uncommon at all to run car tires on back, however I think he always ran a motorcycle tire on front.
If you put the 195/55/16 on a GL1500 getting bike on center stand is impossible for me make sure you have 80 to 81 inches circumference will also increase rpm by about 300 and fuel mileage will suffer.
Got my Car tire this spring in the Florida keys, needed a tire . Mine had 8k on it and had cords hanging out. Found a man willing to sell me a car tire he had bought for his bike and hadn’t put it on yet. We got it on my bike went on down to the end of the keys . Stopped back at his shop and thanked him again. Now I live in the upper peninsula of Michigan rode all over the lower states back home with over 8k on this tire still looks new, rode the dragon and the Cherohala Skyway with no problems. As long as I own a wing I will have car tire on it ! You make up your own mind but I’m staying with a car tire . Smoother and lower thanks again Scorpio and Titan, ride long stay strong 👍🦦
Two older Honda Goldwings on sale at local scrap yard recent north NSW Oz , complete & probably $100 each sold quick (perhaps flood) . . brother rode one across Oz no issues
I've been running a Michelin Alpin (no not Alpine) run flat, 195-55-16 on the rear of my '13 Wing. This is a winter/ice performance tire, and sadly not available anymore. Same size that fits a Mini Cooper. Circumference was right for my ABS Wing, ie, no problems with the ABS system as far as fault lights and so on. The winter/ice tires have a high silica content. Just right for traction on a bike. Load and speed rating of the tire is a little better than a bike tire. It runs quiet and Wife says it doesn't thump her as hard on bumps. We pull a trailer and I think it's safer than a bike tire. I don't buy them for money savings. I'd run them if they cost twice as much. I usually get about 16K on them. You won't ride past the tire's capability on a 'Wing or other large touring bike. Hard metal parts start dragging before that happens. Maybe on a sport bike this could be a problem. I don't try to sway people to go darkside. As you mentioned, never anything but third hand stories on the failures. Wing World has an article this month by a nay sayer. He says he has investigated many wrecks due to darksiding. I'd like to see those wreck reports. As someone mentioned below, the car tire will try to follow a change in pavement or a groove, but you quickly get used to that. Sorry for the long post!
Interesting that the GWRRA author claims to have "investigated many wrecks due to darksiding"....yet the government agencies ACTUALLY in charge of investigating such things, have no record of even ONE. Guess which source I trust.... Winter tires do work well, but they also do wear out faster, and as I mention, give a bit more "squirm" in corners due to their softer composition.
Nice video. I have a 2012 GL 1800 always overloaded. Started Darksiding when I started making longer trips and a new rear bike tire would sometimes be sketchy whether it would make it home. Since then I have gone double Darkside and will never go back.
Just stating the facts. I would never have tried darksiding had it not been for other riders trying it first and convincing me to give it a go After a few miles of running dark I knew that I was onto something. 250,000 miles later and nary a motorcycle tire on any of my bikes (except for a Suzuki 200 Van Van) I feel quite safe in saying that I will spend the rest of my riding days on the darkside.
Everyone that I’ve ever met that went to the dark side, never went back. That tells me everything I need to hear.
I just put a 195/60R/16 on my 1800. It's a directional tire, I felt that would be a good choice. A little snug getting it up past the differential, but no rubbing while running. I've made curves tight enough to drag the floorboards on both sides. I can't tell any difference from the m/c tire in curves. Put 32psi in the tire, it rides very well. No wet riding yet, but I'm expecting it to do it well. There is a lot of construction being done on the Interstate near my home, lots of grooves and uneven pavement. I haven't seen or felt any problems when hitting any of the changes. I worried about changing lanes to new pavement when it's higher, but it's okay. You have to watch doing that, anyway, no matter what tire you run. A couple hundred miles so far and only positive experiences.
I've been running dark with Kuhmo rear on my 2005 GL 1800 for about 7000 miles. To me it feels like the bike wants to stay upright due to the flatness profile of the tire. However, this week I noticed the cords showing through on one edge of the tire. I decided to go back to Bridgestone Exema Max on rear. OMG, it acts like a real motorcycle again. Turns on a dime. I won't go back to dark.
Because they enjoy it or...
Mine was darksided when I bought it. I gave it 2 months. After getting kicked around on slightly rutted pavement and any other tiny deformation in the road, I couldn’t wait to get rid of the car tire. I agree you’re not going to die unless an angle in the road pitches you into a truck. No one can honestly say they don’t notice it. It just not true! You may have decided to accommodate for it, but you do have to accommodate for it.
It's Bridgestone Ecopia
NOT Exema
This is one of the best Darkside videos I have seen. I switched to darkside a few years ago on my yamaha vstar. I did my research and prob looked around at the info that was available for well over 6 minths before I did it. Best decision I had made. What gets me going are the Naysayers with Zero experience of riding Darkside. Thank you for this well put together video.
Thank you for the kind words!
Hey so I have a 2007 yamaha vstar 650 classic, does a tube still work on the car tire for the rear of the bike? If so,what tube, and what size car tire would fit? Also, did you swap the front tire as well??.
I am new to the Darkside. We have gl1800. I put a Toyo 195/55r16 on the rear and a Battlax bt46 on the front. Was able to mount both tires my self using the zip tie method. The Toyo Extensa hp2 was easier to put on than any motorcycle tire I have done. It sealed first try with no leaks. The reason that I decided to go darkside was the fact my wife has had back surgery. The harsh jolting ride from the motorcycle tires was a real problem for her. Double dark siding has really improved the ride comfort for both of us. The ride is plush yet the bike handles just fine.
Interesting Scott. Your attitude toward the darkside mirrors mine almost exactly. A few years ago I would have never considered it. I went dark about a year ago and it's great. Good video!
What make and sizes do u use?
@@circuitdude1 Rear Yokohama Avid Envigor 185/55/16 should have done a 60, front BT46 stock size, this is for a 1500.
Best treatment I've ever seen on this topic - comes across as well-informed, balanced and objective! Too bad I just bought a proper MC tire set or I'd give this a try right now.
Great video review on this subject! I decided to try it 2 years ago with a General Altimax R43 and on day one I was grinning from ear to ear. I will never go back after thousands of safe miles in dry or wet. The contact patch as you pointed out is so much greater and it instills a level of confidence I never experienced with a motorcycle tire.
“Search your feelings Luke, the Power of the Darkside is strong!” 😂
Same tire I run on my VTX 1300. Love it!
Great perspective. Having been a darksider for more than 10 years it’s refreshing to see someone actually rationally discuss darksiding. I pretty much ignore the naysayers. Thank you. My philosophy is simple - My damn bike; My damn decision.
Love your comment.
Don't you use your logic on me sir!!
Until you’re in an accident regardless of fault when the insurance man sees a car tire you’re done! You’re at fault and the insurance company denies coverage!
@@urgadurga3299 b.s. I’ve been unfortunate that I’ve had 2 accidents where I’m not at fault where people pulled out right in front of me. Two different insurers and the CT was never an issue. The only “legal” requirement is that a tire has to be DOT approved. That is directly from the appraiser surveying the bike for repair. The only time the tire becomes an issue is if you’re using a racing slick or off-road tire neither of which are DOT approved for highway use. Get your facts straight.
@@urgadurga3299 Did you watch the video??? He addresses that and he can not find ONE incident of an insurance company denying coverage. You have a DOT tire on the bike. They pay. PLEASE feel free to sight an instance of denial based on darkside, I am willing to hear your point, not just an internet anecdote though.. Proof of some kind.
My Dad got a WWII surplus Harley in 1946/47...he ran car tires front and back: that was all anyone could get! Later in life he ran a car tire on his, yes, Bergman 650! I have one on my GL1500. They seem more stable in gravel also. Good summation!
Great job, as always, we have been double darkside for almost 8 years on 2 99 Wings and would never go back! Thanks Scott!
What size and brand do you use for the front and back? Thanks.
Definitely the most informative and rational video I have seen on Darksiding. I've logged well over 300,000 miles on 4 different GL1800's. The Pro's outweigh the con's probably 100 to 1. I won't ever go back. Thanks for the video.
Well,
I've been runnging "Darkside" for years and years. I guess I must have survived it because, I'm here typing!!! As normal, different riders will convey different experiences with C/T's. First off, I have never ran a *Run-flat* C/T. Mine have all been normal C/T's. Guess what, STILL NOT DEAD YET! Run what you like and think is appropriate, it's your bike. As for getting used to a C/T, well, it took me about a city block to get used to it. I feel no rise in bike height as I hit corners. No wanting of the bike to straighten itself out after a corner due to the potential desire for the bike to go back to riding on the flat part of the tire, nope, not happening.
I ride, I corner, I accelerate, I decelerate, I brake, I ride two up, I ride single, I carry things, I tow a trailer, and all the combinations above, STILL HERE! Your choice here.
SR
Hey don't knock it till you've crashed it
I went to the dark side after a couple of years of research looking for anyone who had problems with it. Could not find anyone who had an issue with a car tire. So, made the switch and love it.
You didn't mention one of the main "Pros" of a car tire - run flat. A blow out with a motorcycle tire could be fatal. With a run-flat car tire, no big deal.
That's true, although run-flat tires don't come in sizes that fit the GL1500. The Kumho runflat I show in the video is an excellent option for the GL1800 however.
I've thought of doing this before but always listened to the naysayers but you addressed every question or concern I had so I'm going to give it a try. I actually could use a new back tire so no better time than the present. Thanks!
I run a Dunlop SP WinterSport 3D runflat 175/60R16 on the rear of my GL1800. Does a great job and very little difference in feel when cornering than the traditional MC tire. And I ride fairly aggressive. Oh, and good video.
Thank you for an objective review on the Darkside issue. I ran a 205/70 15" on my old Shadow and that is the same size I plan to use on my 1300 VTX. There are several different brands that riders are using with very good results.
WingAdmin,
I agree 100% about what you said regarding Darksiders. They are quick to tell you you’re wrong and here’s why…all I’ve ever tried to say on the forums is “says a lot about the engineering of car tires, eh?” and that somehow means I’m against the idea. I’m not. I had an Austone. But I’ve given up, the double swing arm is just too tight to allow anything in. I’ll never own a GL1800 but I have a Rune and those are MC tires. So it was fun while it lasted. As always, informative and entertaining!
I was on my second rear car tire (2014 GL1800). I love it, the only issue is the car tire wants to follow the contour of the road, but I got used to it. Oh, and when the tire pressure drops, it makes it really hard to put the Wing on the center stand.
what size and brand is the best
I concur with his findings. I researched for 3 months before going dark and found the exact same thing as he did all the way down to insurance coverage. I didn't have snow to ride through but I used water and cones to measure my contact patch findings. As far as the difference in the corners I think a RF tire does maybe lift some on the edge but a use a NRF and do not get that feeling. Riding off or on a curb slowly you will get more of a push to the low side but you will get used to that quickly. A good friend of mine who was totally against me getting a ct rode my bike and when I asked him how it felt, he looked bewildered and said he never could tell the difference. As for my riding style and experience I do lock and lean riding, love rubbin a peg in the twisties and also tour,ing. I usually ride mostly 1 up. As I said I use a NRF tire, a Yokohoma Avid Ascend 195/60/16 at 32/34psi. Wear is nice and even all the way across. My last tire I had 42,000 miles on with tread left. Total miles in the darkside is approx 200,000 miles with zero problems. I have used beads to balance but currently use Ride On to balance and help stop leaks like with a nail or something. If you can see my profile pic, this is me at Cottonwood Pass in Colorado in 2019 and my tire had some 35,000 miles on it at that time. I'm not saying you have to buy a ct to run but I say to each their own and YOU make your own decision. Don't let someone who has never even tried one for any amount of time dictate to you what you should do. I personally got a second rim, put a ct on it and did my side by side tests and decided to go for it. I have never looked back and will never go back to a mt. Ride often and safe my friends!!
Hey James
You ride a 1500 wing?
I hv a 1989..would tht rear size fit my bike??
Thanks for your time and info, ride both 1800 goldwing and Harley electra, been riding for 56 yrs. I tow trailer also and have been sitting on the sideline for years on this issue. Most of my riding is mountain curving road and then highways for travel. I now think the Kumo would work well for my riding. Just need to find someone around Coeur d alene, Id. that will change the tire. Thanks again!
I actually just came upon this idea as my '12 wing (gifted to me by my pops) needs new tires. Long story short, I asked my long term Honda dealer service manager if he "promoted the darkside"
He said no but he would be more than happy to mount a CT on my bike.........just don't expect him to test ride it. He went throgh the same speal that this video started with. Watching this and reading all your comments is sending me there. Thank you all!
Thanks for the video. Very good presentation. I rode a Suzuki burgman 659 and went to the dark side. Got a lot of negative comments. But never changed the rear tire for 4 years. Now I’m on a 1800gl next rear tire will be dark.
Good video. Thanks. Most of your comments reflect mine. I just do not notice any problem except when going 5 miles an hour on a rough parking lot or backing up over rough terrain. Thanks again for the video.
this is the best video ive seen on the subject, bottom line motorcycle tires are a huge ripoff price wise
Im going to the darkside tomorrow on my GL1800. My friend has been doing it for years now and is happy with its performance. Im going with the Hankook Optima H426B 195/55R16 RSF run flat. Thanks for the video, well done.
always nice to view your comment. thank you for your time and good work.
Thank you. I just bought a 1984 Goldwing 1200I. I'm going to be doing fabrication to a bolt on trike kit to install on her, after cleaning and maintenance. It will be the only way my wife will ride with me again and we aren't young like we were 15 years ago. I will investigate this more. Thank you again from East Tennessee.
I recently dark sided my 85 Gold Wing 1200GL and love it.
The Nexen 165/80/15 car tire has improved my braking, grip and water displacement. Cornering is no problem and I can still scrape foot pegs occasionally. I'm running 37Psi. ....I'm Staying on the Dark Side !!!
Thanx Scott for a very fair & objective video !
Thank you for your video on this topic. It was very informative; with facts, not just opinions. I have been a member of Goldwingdocs since 2011 and have gotten very valuable information from you and other contributors over the years. I just realized you are now on UA-cam as well. I will subscribe. I also hope to be able to meet you at one of your annual gatherings some day. Thanks
I think I'm around 90k Double Darkside. Never even a flat. I just got off a bike known bit to do well Darkside. And going back into one. I CANT WAIT!
This was a great video. Especially when you showed actual tire function in curves. I am contemplating darkside for my 21 Gwing. This definitely put my mind at ease
Same with my ‘21 Wing. At near $300 a pop for the factory Dunlops, I’m not excited about replacing my tires every 7k miles every year. Prior to my wing, I ALWAYS thought darksiding was patently ridiculous…when I rode an R6 or my VTX1300. On my wing and with the expense of the rear MC tires, I’m beginning to come around to the idea.
Same with my 23 dct. In fact about to go darkside today with 195/55 R16 Michelin primacy 4. Looking to get more traction and grip esp in wet conditions. Will update after getting some miles on the set up
thanks for the good informative vid. just doing some final research before I darkside my Electra Glide. I'm doing it largely because I pull a fairly large trailer and my rear tire milage is poor as a result. I'm not concerned about doing it from any aspect at all. I'm looking forward to it a lot and I'm actually dropping my wheel diameter by 1 inch which will shorten my gearing just a bit which I want to do as well.
once again ...thanks for the well done and informative video
As someone who HAS tried darksiding/has experience with it, I'll NEVER EVER EVER do it again!!! Why,?.....well, it almost cost me my life, that's why!!!! In 2011 I Installed a freaking car tire on the back of my 2010 GL1800 (a Yokohama AVID ENVigor) and had about 1000 miles on it so it was well broke in. Traveled up to my old stomping grounds from a year back, up in northern Minnesota to do some nice summertime riding one weekend and got on a 5 miles stretch of twistys that I was very familiar with from when I used to live in the area a year prior. Everything was fine until halfway through one of the twistys going 55 mph (cruise control set) like I had always done previously, when all of a sudden the ass end of my bike went out from under me and I slid and crashed into a guard rail. I'd taken that exact same curve, oh god, at least 200 times previously and at always 55mph, and also on that same bike with never a problem, but had always had actual MC tires on it. Reason for the crash was 100% because of that stupid ct on my bike, that squared off edge of the car tire bit me and bit me hard!!!. After crashing and getting up and dusting myself off, checking out my cuts & scrapes and then calling authorities, I started trying to asses what the heck had just happened and noticed a beautiful 40 ft or so long black curving rubber mark on the pavement where my back CAR TIRE had lost traction and slid out. Nope, pavement was dry, was an 80 degree day and there was no oil or tar snakes on that stretch of curve at all. Anyway, I ended up with only cuts, scrapes and bruises out of the ordeal but my one year old 2010 Goldwing that I still owed a bunch of money on was a total loss after sliding and then hitting the guard rail. To make matters worse, when the insurance adjuster (from Progressive Ins) checked out the bike, he immediately noticed the CAR TIRE on the bike and instantly denied my claim. So there has been documented cases where Ins has denied claims, and I'm not the only one this has happened to!! I ended up going to court against the insurance company and lost my case because as the rep from progressive stated to the judge, I had a tire that was made for a car or light truck/suv ONLY, not a motorcycle, and has the totally wrong bead profile that doesn't match or seat up properly on a motorcycles rim profile. Being "D.O.T. approved or not doesn't mean diddle squat when the case is argued infront of a judge, I tried that argument to no avail.. That darkside experience ended up costing me $17,000. But to each their own, if you wanna darkside that's fine, it's your life. I guess maybe after my mishap darksiding, I realized that I actually value my life a little more than I thought I did. Plus, god forbid, if you ever wreck your bike, whether or not the tire had anything at all to do with why you wrecked, and the ins adjuster sees a car tire on your bike, you're f&^%$ked!!
@Rita Mae I could honestly give two hoots if you believe me or not. I've got the road rash scars on my right shoulder, across the right side of my back and right calf to prove it. Also, while telling my story to some of the members of our local Oskaloosa Iowa Goldwing club, one of the members chimed in after I'd told my story saying the almost identical thing had happened to him also. Accept his accident happened on his 2 yr old 2018 Wing, of which his insurance carrier denied his claim costing him even more than my accident had cost me. That being said, it seems that my situation being a total DUMBASS by putting a car tire on a motorcycle isn't a 1/1,000,000,000 accident after all........
You got screwed then. I purchase crashed Harley’s and other motorcycles at insurance auctions all the time and see dark sided motorcycles run through the auction all the time. So yes insurance does cover them. Maybe you opened your mouth when you shouldn’t have. In my experience insurance adjusters don’t know much about motorcycle let alone how to identify a ct to a mt
Cruise control in twisties that’s ur problem friend. Not the CT.
@gerralstephens2833 100% false. Ran through that area more than a 100 times prior (at 55 mph) with never a problem. First time through darksiding, and the ass end of the bike slid out. Had nothing to do with cruise control WHATSOEVER......
It's like our host said. It's the riders who have never ridden with CT that find fault. And like ur experience. I take ur word for it Brother. But I have half a million miles on CT. And never once not once ever had a slight skid in conditions way worse than you described. Be careful on ur selection of CT. Just like mc tires. Not all are the same. Best of luck. Be safe out there.
Been riding for 50 years. Darksiding a motorcycle. Depends on who you ask. I sold engineering plastics and thermoplastic rubber compounds before I retired. So, what's the primary difference between a motorcycle tire and a car tire? Besides the obvious shape is the rubber compounds. The hardness or as we say "Durometer" of the rubber compounds in a car tire are much harder and designed for abrasion resistance. Thus much better wear. Well you say, I've got to have a car tire! Not so fast Pilgrim. There's a fundamental reason why motorcycle tires have a lower durometer or softness. It gives you much better grip. Plus, when leaning heavily on a car tire, you are significantly losing contact area on the road. So, here's my advice. If you ride like an old man and don't lean much, then go for it. If you ride like me leaning heavily in the turns, then you'd be a fool and maybe dead with a car tire..
Thank you for using real world personal experience to debunk the dark side. I don't take long trip on my bikes otherwise I would do exactly what you've done on my GL1000, GL1100 and GL1500.
I bought a R1200RT with a car tire with a much less rounded shape than these shown in your video, and it worked amazingly well in spite of the square shoulders. It made me a believer too. Great video. Thanks.
Great discussion on the topic! I'm not going to dark side my Wing, but I know MANY MANY riders who have, and they love it. It's just personal preference for me. I've read the technical reasons for not doing it, and that's all well and good, but at the end of the day, it's up to the owner. Regardless of what people do with tires (or oil), please ride safely!!
I am 100% convinced this is the way to go. Looks fantastic. The only downside that I can conceive is fuel mileage might be effected due to more friction. A trade off that in my eyes that is well worth the advantages. I am about the be the owner of a 2000 Valkyrie, this will be one of my first mods.
Nice video as with the others I have seen from this channel.
My only complaint with this channel is he needs to be wearing a hat. I’m bald and seeing a perfect head of hair like that is distracting me. 😅😂
Cool channel
Ok now you have convinced me. I'm gonna do it when I change out the cycle tire I put on there. Next spring. Thank you for this info. Great to know.
A representative from Dunlop tires went around at americade and check the air pressure of the motorcycles are especially the big gold wings that were loaded to the hilt and found that more than 50% had less air than what they were supposed to have. This aspect needs to be considered.
I use pressure monitor valve stem caps.,... seems to work fine 🙋
Nice video
I recently went Darkside on my vn1700 first tyre 195/65/16 I went a bit taller for extra height and within a few hours of riding I was back to scraping my floor boards
I've now just replaced it with a 205/60/16 as I wasn't sure if I could go 65
All I can say is I'm so glad I tried it as I have no dramas with it at all and actually get alot more grip on all road conditions
Biggest thing I've seen online is if it doesn't feel comfortable is adjust the air pressure a few psi to get the sweet spot
Thanks so much for posting been debating for years have not gone dark side of yet but sure will in future we are being ripped off by MC car companies high prices no mileage especially if you have heavy bike
Thanks Scott, very balanced review. I am in my first year on a GL1200 1986 Aspencade and will definitely look yo go dark when I do a rear tyre swop.
Thank you for this video! I've been on the fence about going Darkside for a bit and following your advice has never let me down before!
Right there with the Presidential election was stolen and the existence of the toothfairy.
Im one of those anti darkside riders, but also believe in freedom of choice.
My only argument was with cornering due to tire design, but you have me rethinking my position, especially in the wet.
I would never go dark side on my lighter bikes, but I recently aquired a 2004 Goldwing and may try it out.
Thanks.
On a Goldwing you won't be disapointed. I went dark on my first Honda Goldwing and put a little over 8K miles on it when I had to get rid of it. My new Wing (new to me) came with new tires and I already ordered a rim and runflat ct for it so when the MT wears out i'm taking this wing to the dark side. Just like he said you will feel the added grip on take off and braking, riding thru monsoons and I never once felt the bike become unstable. Also like he said its a personal choice but I believe once you try it on a Goldwing or other 8-9 hundred pound bike you will love it.
Just something on your comment and lighter bikes. A friend mounted one on his BWM adventure bike and he has absolutely loved it. Now he does not do serious off roading but gravel roads and such. He still loves it.
I bought a 2001 Goldwing several years ago. It was already on a car tire when I bought it, it was on the same tire when I sold it a couple years later. I could easily drag all kinds of parts in the twisties without a moments hesitation.
@countryjoe3551
This answers my question.
A bungee can help with scraping those pesky foot pegs. Also, keeping the suspension at the maximum height makes a huge difference.
I've never seen nor heard of this before a few weeks ago. I love in the Black Hills of South Dakota and I saw a bike in Rapid City with a car tire. Blew my mind.
I've been Darkside on my '06 Yamaha Stratoliner S for almost 4 years now. Riken Raptor 205/50/17, purchased from Tire Rack.
Great info! I'm considering dark siding my boss hoss. This bike goes through tires like it's nothing.
Just found your UA-cam channel. You are a great teacher. I have learned so much. Please keep it up.
Thank you!
I'm glad I saw this video. I have an 1800 that needs tires. I bought it used and have already put a good 10,000 miles on the tires it came with. I'm also getting a little pull trailer. Sounds like going to the other tire is going to be a win/win.
Seeing your riding video clinches it. I had wondered about cornering, but I can see there is plenty of tread on the ground. Thanks!
2003 Wing, first CT on it and have so far 9,500 miles on it. No issues. Part of those miles are on the Dragon and some with pulling a trailer. I’m running a Pirelli P1 Run Flat 195/55-16 at 36psi. Far as cornering / leaning, again, no issues. I’ve scrapped my foot pegs.
Why you scrap your foot pegs? Where do you place your feet now?? 😆😆
@@martinmartinez2877 You can scape the bottom of your foot pegs on a Goldwing IF you lean it over far enough in a curve. I’ve never damaged my foot pegs, just a little minor scratches on the bottom.
@@workharddieproud He was being pedantic about your misspelling.
Great video.
I ride a Honda Valkyrie interstate (5 speed) to reduce 400 RPM at 75mph - installed a Firestone 195 75 r16.
It’s like everything in life. Personal choice. I don’t judge what other adults do with their machines. As for me, I am on the fence still, but I am not opposed to moving in that direction when I decide to.
Yes CT handles differently, More counter steering in turns. What everybody doing these videos never seem to point out is that a MT also requires more counter steering pressure in turns once your MT gets about half worn. If you look at it, it is also flat across the middle with a flat area about equal to a CT.
Very true.
I had thought about going to the dark side on my 1993 GL1500 with a Champion Sidecar. It Doesn't lean that much and I put a lot of miles on my bike in a year. My last Tire Blowout was around Christmas of 2018. Not sure what I ran over but it shredded. I was doing 70 MPH when it Blew. By the time I got to the Median my knee was on the sidecar and the engine was still running. Whew!
Thanks to your video im going to try it next time I have to change my rear tire....
After removing MC tire prior to an extended trip, only to remount it after we got home to complete it useful life, I went to a car tire on the rear of my GL1800. Just this month mounted my second car tire after 20K miles on the first one and doubt I'll ever go back. BTW, the wear bars were not yet flush but I changed it out early to be safe, Point is, you likely spend more time/miles riding on a tire that is more than half worn out with the MC softer compound and higher expense of replacement . Just adding one more pro argument to the dark siders.
Very interesting. I had never heard of this ‘dark side’ of which you speak..(nod to Master Yoda😂). Very well presented for the pros and cons in a clear and easy to understand format. Great stuff, keep it up. I’m a gl1100 owner by the way, so I’m loving the content. Subscribed and liked. 👍
Great , I really appreciate the info . Answered questions I have had a long time. I used to be of the belief a car tire is made for a car period! If the feeling when cornering is to overwhelming I can see where it would be hard to make the change. Thanks again for your points on this often asked question.
Big D
Brownfield, Tx.
Today was my first time on a GL1500. Going around a wet, uphill turn, I broke the back tire loose. My eyes almost popped out of my helmet. Even with fresh tires, I am ready to try a car tire
The Clymer repair manual for the GL1000/1100 recommends using a car tire with sidecar and a springer front end, but good luck finding one of those.
Great information thanks
I a VStrom rider and I haul Everything! I need on my bike was looking for the whys and why nots. Well I see no reason to not
Thank
Thank you for doing this, you are smart, educated and reasonable ,, i will do it on my heavy bike because the motorcycle tire is expensive
Double darkened and loving it! Bitter grip in the wet and way better grip on gravel roads my brigstones were done at 13,000 miles 7,000 on the car tire still looks new and cost $86 dollars at Walmart.
Awesome video Awesome info
Ivbeen dark side for over 5 years and love it..... I need this video to send to my friends that are look for info about. Good job tks
VERY informative, thank you! I just bought a Honda PC800 from the owner of a motorcycle shop. He dark sided the rear and swears by it. So I wanted to do a little research. THANKS
Got one on mine too! Love it!
Lots of excellent info! New rider and have always thought the Goldwing looked like the full package, going with my gut on this one.
I would have NEVER thought to put car tires on my goldwings. I am intrigued. Will thoroughly research.
Got over 80K on my GL1800 running a CT on the back. Never an issue and never will go back to motorcycle tire at the rear.
I am on my second car tire. Towing a trailer across the country definitely destroys all tires but motorcycle tires weren't even lasting 5k.
I remember having a Harley 1944 in Argentina and the tires size was 600 x 16 same size my father Mercury car. I have tried on my Silverwing i drove from Alabama to Ushuaia and back to Buenos Aires the same size than a Mini Cooper because in Argentina Bridgestone o Metzeler or any other brans made motorcycle tires on the siza the Silverwing needed so after 35000 miles still driving on the Drk Side in South America.
I have a Honda Interstate put a 165 /70/15 car tire. On rear .I Won't Ever go back to a MC Tire.
Thank you. ‘97 Valkyrie here and going dark side.
I’ve said, I’ll never ever do this. Last week I bought a 2002 goldwing with car tire on it. I rode it cause it was already there. I am impressed. It rides the same, handles the same, corners the same. For now, I’m gonna run this tire till time to change it. At that time I’ll make my decision. But I’m leaning to staying darkside.
That is exactly how I was introduced to the Dark side. I bought my current Wing with a CT already on it. The owner swore by it. Well I had a 3 1/2 hour ride home to get used to it. It's been 9 years and I'm still running Dark. Even went double dark 5 years ago.
Best and most informative video I have seen. Thank you!
The Duro motorcycle tires I run on my Sportster generally run about $60 a piece, and the special Duro sidecar tires I get from Dennis Kirk are only $35 a piece.
I find that getting the air pressure just right on my Silverwing 600SC with a dark side makes a lot of difference. Slightly less air than the motorcycle version lets it flex and it feels just fine going around corners. I think I have a slightly bigger contact patch too. Too little is squirmy and too much makes it ride on the sharp edge and feel funny when cornering. For me, 31.5 lto 32 bs is just right but took a bit of experimenting. My brother in law swears by the run flat.
Thanks, I've made up my mind to try it. Got 62K miles on my bike and been thinking about this for probably 50K of that. Like you mentioned, I'm lucky to get 10K miles on a rear tire. I change my own tires so that part is not a problem. My rear wheel is 6X17 so I'm shopping for a 205/50/17 tire. This will be interesting to see how it goes. I ride year round and can easily do 7K miles a year just back and forth to work. So I'm going to give this a shot in a few weeks. 🙂
My 1998 V8 kannon came with a car tire. But it also actually has a car wheel on the rear.
Got 13,500 miles on an E-3 on the rear and 15,000 miles on the front E-3.
2 years ago you couldn't find an E-3 to save your life, so I went with a Metzler 888 and so far very good. Mileage is around 7K on the rear and 6K on front. Still running.
Weight of the tire and maybe improved rear brakes are my questions. I wouldn't be concerned with hydroplaning anymore then I am in the rain on MC tires. With the increased contact surface, relearning braking and emergency braking would be mandatory.
After riding solo for years I finally have a Lady that doesn't want to ride her own bike and enjoys just sitting on the back. Now to top that off I am painting our trailer to haul camping gear. I've always fit mine within the load pyramid of my bikes. Yes too often bikes over loaded have been brought to me with the riders complaining about ill handling. After checking the norms; tire pressure, balance, true and shock condition I've had to explain the load was too much and aft of the rear wheel.
After watching this video I'll consider buying a car tire for my 06 GL1800 that we use for our rides and touring. But I will not consider one for my V-Twin long distance bikes. Although I still average 60,000 per year on those bikes combined.
My Lady and I expect 40,000 miles per year touring. The car tire should outlast my front MC tire by at least four times.
Thank You for you information and video.
You all are in my prayers
Hoka Hey
Best request I’ve ever heard. Thanks.
Sorry…. That was supposed to say Best review!!!
Ran them front and rear on my bikes for years. Currently have a 650, 1100, and 1300 vstar all double darksided. Never and issue. Been great!
BTW, I ride an 06 Yamaha Stratoliner. I shared you video on our Yamaha stratoliner forum. For info, I run a Yokohama Avid Touring S, 215/60/17. With the factory Bridgestone front tire, the rear CT bossed the front tire. Imput into the bars had to be made throughout the turns/curves. I went to a Dunlop American Elite tire up front and it totally changed my handling. It bosses the rear tire. It feels like it did before. Like there is a MT front and rear. The American Elite is a much rounder tire than the Bridgestone. I think what's happening is the rounder American Elite tire leans the bike, before the rear tire can stand it back up. I love it. And it rides that way one-up or two-up. Best air pressure is 38lbs front and rear. My two Harleys have MT's. Their rims are too skinny for a CT. I'll never go back to a MT on my Stratoliner.
I live in Louisiana, and they’re cracking down on motorcycle inspections. In Shreveport, there’s literally one dealer that is certified. I’m going to bet they won’t pass this, and don’t care what I say.
Their is no federal law that states that a car tire on a motorcycle will not pass on Inspection. Only if your tire is not DOT approved. Have the Inspection shop pull it up and they will not be able too. Educate them or go to another Inspection station.
I plan on Darksiding when it’s time to replace the rear tire. BMW R18 Transcontinental. A lead sled on 2 wheels.
Going around curves seeing sketchy but like you said get used to it I like the the thought of longer lasting tire.. I own a Gl1200
Hi Parker...I also have a GL 1200 interstate...what size tire did you put on your bike ? Please and thank you
I ran a car tire on the back of a 1012 Vulcan 1700. The edges of the tread was wearing noticeably at 16k miles. Still way better than the 3500 miles I got out of the original tire. I now ride an Indian Springfield. The original rear tire got 13k miles easy enough, but was cupping. I was satisfied with that mileage, so I went back with an OEM rear tire.
You know I used to have a fair bit of cupping on my gold wing tires. I kept getting told - air pressure. OK so I took a set of OEM Bridgestone tires and went nuts checking the air pressure. I kept those tires within +/- 1 psi checking them with a Michelin digital pressure gauge every second ride. A PIA but I have 16K miles on them - no cupping yet. I am surprised...
Proper INFLATION….the idiots that complain about “cupping”, poor wear, etc., are the same ones that NEVER check their tire pressure…..
Some idiots don't know anything about TPMs.@@martinmartinez2877
Just Darksided my 2006 Burgman 400 with a 145/60R13 Michelin Compact Car Tire. I now have 400 miles & it's fully broken in.
It's absolutely the most effective upgrade in ride, handling & confidence boosting for this 420# Maxi Scooter.
Feels like an Air Ride suspension was installed. Far smoother over rough pavement - Hiway MPH creeps up rapidly due to increased smoothness.
I burned through the prior Shinko 130/70-13 Bias ply MC tire in just 6,000 miles / 90 days !
All the Darkside reports say I'll get 4-6X longer lifespan.
Just pinch me - there are NO downsides that I can see.
It seems that Motorcyclists that think that new rear tires at 3x the cost @6-8,000 intervals are "normal" are the battered spouse in an abusive relationship with motorcycle tire companies, dealerships & mechanics.
To my Brother cyclists, I say - leave your abusive "Spouse" - you'll fine the 'Darkside' to be more"Enlightening" than you can imagine !
Oh yeah, I made a video about my Darksided Suzuki Burgman 400 :
I had no idea there were tires that fit the 400, or I would have put one on my 400AN when I had it!
December of 2020 I installed an Achilles 155/70r13 on the rear of my 2008 Burgman 400. It was $35.00 shipped to my door. The last City Gripp I installed was $95 and wore out in 5,500 miles. The car tire has 8,000 miles on it and still looks new.
@@abnerbjorn1106
Wow Abner great story.
How or who did mount your tire ?
Any tips on their method ?
I just had to swap out this tire finally at 10,000 miles.
It had been installed by an Independent Motorcycle Shop in So Cal that had experience doing "Darkside" installs.
But here in Texas at home, our local tire shop - God bless em - tried & failed to get it to set the bead, attempting to install a 155/65-70 Petlas radial tire.
So, to get my Scoot back in action I bought a Pirelli Angel Scooter tire, one size up to 140/70R-13.
It's said the Pirelli should WAY outlast the Short lived Shinko 130/70-13 that preceded it.
@@psalm2forliberty577 Mounting it was easy. I let it set in the Colorado sun for a half hour, and the tire went right on. 3 tire spoons and some tire lube. Getting the bead to set was a different story. I tried for 2 hours on my own, and then took it into a forklift / trailer tire shop to set ithe bead for me.
@@abnerbjorn1106
Right on !
I should have tried spoons.
You mean the long chrome ones like Harbor freight sells ?
Can they gouge the rim ?
On setting bead, have you seen the very slick "bicycle inner tube" method to use it to fill the big gap ? A tight fitting on rim, the bicycle inner tube is applied over rim & pressed against top bead (use tire lube solution), thus forming air seal.
Blast of air (valve core out helps) then pushes top bead up (bottom was already seated,) and inner tube is squeezed & you pull it out & upper bead should be set.
The first real motorcycle I rode on was a 1947 Harley Davidson with a tank shift, later that Summer the owner traded for a 1954 Harley Davidson 74 because it had a foot shift. I believe both of these had car tires on back. It was not uncommon at all to run car tires on back, however I think he always ran a motorcycle tire on front.
If you put the 195/55/16 on a GL1500 getting bike on center stand is impossible for me make sure you have 80 to 81 inches circumference will also increase rpm by about 300 and fuel mileage will suffer.
You need to start lifting weights, or are you a geezer?😳😆
Got my Car tire this spring in the Florida keys, needed a tire . Mine had 8k on it and had cords hanging out. Found a man willing to sell me a car tire he had bought for his bike and hadn’t put it on yet. We got it on my bike went on down to the end of the keys . Stopped back at his shop and thanked him again. Now I live in the upper peninsula of Michigan rode all over the lower states back home with over 8k on this tire still looks new, rode the dragon and the Cherohala Skyway with no problems. As long as I own a wing I will have car tire on it ! You make up your own mind but I’m staying with a car tire . Smoother and lower thanks again Scorpio and Titan, ride long stay strong 👍🦦
I put a car tire on my M109R Suzuki and went around Corners at 145 mph for 6 years never had an issue.
Two older Honda Goldwings on sale at local scrap yard recent north NSW Oz , complete & probably $100 each sold quick (perhaps flood) . . brother rode one across Oz no issues
Scott. Been riding my GL 1500 SE for years. Just found some of your UA-cam
I've been running a Michelin Alpin (no not Alpine) run flat, 195-55-16 on the rear of my '13 Wing. This is a winter/ice performance tire, and sadly not available anymore. Same size that fits a Mini Cooper. Circumference was right for my ABS Wing, ie, no problems with the ABS system as far as fault lights and so on. The winter/ice tires have a high silica content. Just right for traction on a bike. Load and speed rating of the tire is a little better than a bike tire. It runs quiet and Wife says it doesn't thump her as hard on bumps. We pull a trailer and I think it's safer than a bike tire. I don't buy them for money savings. I'd run them if they cost twice as much. I usually get about 16K on them. You won't ride past the tire's capability on a 'Wing or other large touring bike. Hard metal parts start dragging before that happens. Maybe on a sport bike this could be a problem. I don't try to sway people to go darkside. As you mentioned, never anything but third hand stories on the failures. Wing World has an article this month by a nay sayer. He says he has investigated many wrecks due to darksiding. I'd like to see those wreck reports. As someone mentioned below, the car tire will try to follow a change in pavement or a groove, but you quickly get used to that. Sorry for the long post!
Interesting that the GWRRA author claims to have "investigated many wrecks due to darksiding"....yet the government agencies ACTUALLY in charge of investigating such things, have no record of even ONE. Guess which source I trust....
Winter tires do work well, but they also do wear out faster, and as I mention, give a bit more "squirm" in corners due to their softer composition.
Nice video. I have a 2012 GL 1800 always overloaded. Started Darksiding when I started making longer trips and a new rear bike tire would sometimes be sketchy whether it would make it home. Since then I have gone double Darkside and will never go back.
Been putting a car tire on the rear of my Harley baggers for decades. Never had one problem. I always used a tire tube in it regardless
Just stating the facts. I would never have tried darksiding had it not been for other riders trying it first and convincing me to give it a go After a few miles of running dark I knew that I was onto something. 250,000 miles later and nary a motorcycle tire on any of my bikes (except for a Suzuki 200 Van Van) I feel quite safe in saying that I will spend the rest of my riding days on the darkside.
Nicely done. Made me decide to go for it !
That was very interesting, and I was just told about this today from a friend that has had a few Goldwings. I may try it myself.
Been thinking about darksiding for several years on various bikes. Now I’m riding a Goldwing trike and am always on the darkside.