Hi, thanks for this video, very interresting. You correctly guessed a ot of elements :) A few technical indications though: - On the rectifier control board, this is an Actel/Microsemi/Microchip (in order of company acquisition) A3P125 praetorian FPGA, not a plebeian CPLD :P It mostly manages safety redundancy and some basic low-level / high-speed functions (OC and OV detection and latching, blanking and dead-time correction ...). There has been some experiments of making it do the PWM generation instead of the MCU, but it showed unconclusive in terms of efficiency for the system. - There are two CAN transceivers on this board, one for the vehicle CAN and board power management (TJA1043), one for the transmission of the BOOST signal, which uses the CAN analog transport interface for noise immunity, thus the transceiver is a much simpler one, with no timeout protection, since the signal is a simple 10kHz PWM. - The shunt board generates a 100kHz PWM that indicates the neutral current, and is read by the MCU (since there are no isolated analog links in the isolator chip, the value has to be transmitted with digital signal). - The input module control board (with the DSPIC) has no CAN transceiver, it is not connected to the CAN bus. The compnents you saw are LVDS transceivers, which give some noise immunity to the SPI bus between the rectifier and the input module. This bus goes through the small shielded harness. This link is really noisy, thus the SPI frequency is pretty low (5MHz). - The Input Module having no connection to the CAN bus of the vehicle, it is not a "standalone" ECU that can be accessed through the ODB plug. It is a slave module for the rectifier. In addition, there is no mean for reprogramming through the SPI, thus the presence of the ICSP connector for eventual update. - Being a slave module for the rectifier, the input module only does analog measurements of mains voltages and currents, and manages some relays, including pre-charge relay, pretty much like some kind of evoluted IO expander. You are right : the content of ths program in this module is not very interresting.
They seem like the outcome of an odd engineering tradeoff between reliability and speed/ease of assembly; bolted lugs (perhaps with a plastic cover containing the interlock mechanism and sealing) would be more reliable, but much slower to assemble.
Re the comment at 20:24; I designed the GMI (ground impedance test) circuit for an EV 'charger' (EVSE; unfortunately can't describe how it works b/c commercial confidentiality) but it did not require anything fancy or highspeed; three or four dirt-cheap commodity silicon parts and some passives. The BOM for that section is maybe $3. I don't know how 'other people do it' but the solution I came up with is simple and works fine (can safely measure the gnd impedance from a few ohms to kilohms; enough accuracy as we just need to not activate power if the ground is no good, actual trip points fairly loosely defined in standards). There was a bit of headscratching as it's not immediately obvious (wasn't to me) how to do it - we worked out some viable-but-complicated ideas, then I had a lightbulb moment and it turned out to be simple and cheap.
Could you emphasize on the earth-checking system of Zoe, please? I paid an electrician to install new 3phase 5wire cable and 5pin CEE32A socket. He'll do that next week. I told him that the car is earth-picky but he didn't get what I mean. He said that in our country the Neutral and Earth are galvanicly conected and that he will short them at the main power box. Should I tell him to connect the Earth wire from the new cable to an Earth rod, instead(there is a suitable damp place to install one)?
I heard that it would just measure one of the additional L2 or L3 phases to decide if the supply is single or 3 phase. 3 phase plugs usually are required to have a 3 phase circuit breaker, avoiding a phase missing on the plug. But any main fuse of a building needs to be a fuse that melts, so it is not tripping all phases, risky not to monitor all phases then. Don't forget, it is a french car, it doesn't have faults, it has character ;)
Grubby contactors in public chargers, very easy for a phase to be missing. Hope someone sends a 22kW one in to Mike. The 22kW does still very much make sense with CCS too, as the new one has, as I regularly charge at 22kW AC only chargers.But agree 43kW is dying, given that they are costly to add to rapids due to being tethered thick cables. A 22kW socket is similar cost to a 7kW if there's a 3phase supply to the unit anyway
Hi Mike! Excellent video. We have a 2013 reg Zoe with this BCB setup, we have our car at a Renault dealer for the 3rd year in a row with the filter unit going faulty. The Renault Dealers can never work it out its hilarious! The first year the dealer had the car for 6 months and replaced everything motor, gearbox, BCB the lot under warranty problem solved lol. The second year they kept giving it back to us saying its was the cable, no fault found etc, meanwhile we blew most of the public charge points in the north west. It took for BP Chargemaster in the end to send out an engineer to test the car whilst charging, what we found was after about 20 mins or so charging at 22kw 3phase the inverter would get hot (you could here a loud fan come on) and the amp reading from L2 would loose 10 amps, whist checking the earth, it gained 10 amps back to the charge point so the L2 circuit was short circuit. Filter replaced under warranty after me bugging them about it problem solved) . We think the problem is we only charge on 3 phase public charge points at 22kw the filters dont seem to last longer than 6k miles worth of that kind of charging. Anyway here we are again for the third year in a row! we have been getting slight shocks of the body recently and now its has blown charge points again after 6k miles, this year when it first did it, it sent a surge through the car and flicked off all the 12v breakers in the car until ignition was reset. Now the dealership say we have to pay a stupid amount of money so a Technician can chase down fault code "006023" which is a Renault specific DTC for the EVC. We know its the filter box going faulty again but unfortunately for us Renault insist on plugging in a 5v DC computer to tell them answers on a 600v ac system. So we had a question for you, do you know if the EVC is the ecu that controls inverter setup (Filter Box etc). And do you know of the code from Renault so I can pin it to the Filter Box to save getting an electrician to a charge point, thanks.
Lever-lock connectors are actually very common in car wire harnesses since a long times, the ones used here are just using an usual lock-lever design, on steroids.
as for that current sensor board, we have all taken too much adderall or drank too much coffee and drastically over designed a board but in all seriousness this is a fantastic teardown i always enjoy these
That connecting a phase to neutral fault can also happen on Konas combined with a Zappi 3 phase charger. The charger swaps between 1 and 3 phase to fine tune the amount of power the car can take and under the right combination of conditions, bang!
The relay switched caps to ground are probably switched because those capacitor values they needed for enough EMI suppression are too large to give a safe touch current if the ground is interrupted and because they would trip RCDs if connected as usual from both line and neutral to ground. Relay 3 would be energized for a three phase supply where the X2 capacitor midpoints are close to ground potential. Relay 1 or 2 would energize for a single phase feed depending on if line and neutral are reversed (1) or not (2).
Great video! Do you know which relay activated the battery heater in the Q90 Zoe? I would like preheating the battery, before charging in winter, to have max DC charging power.
I lvoed my Zoe but the charging system was fickle and unneccessarily complex. Just like the heat pump which was pointless below 0 C, and made the heating/cooling excessively loud. And despite all the complicated charging electronics, you can't even set the charge current inside the car. I had the 22kW version with the 22kWh battery (R240). Now I'm driving a Model 3 and I have to say it's a completely different beast. Especially if you lease, the relatively small difference in monthly payment makes it really hard to go for a Zoe, even the latest one. Still, I enjoyed driving my Zoe. It was a quirky little car that had a lot of spunk going from 0-50kph. And the driving position and seat was VERY comfortable.
The Relay-Melting-Error happens when a Charging-Session is started without L2 but with live L1 and L3, because only L2 gets checked to determine 1ph or 3ph ( www.goingelectric.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=26015&p=588280&hilit=zoe+relais+kurzschluss#p588280 ). The Module looks like the 43 kW Version (Conti, Q), the 22 kW (Renault, R) Engineroom looks completely different i2.wp.com/www.zoe-club-austria.at/main/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/MotorVergleich_Q210R240.jpg?ssl=1 .
That is so dumb - I think anyone experiencing it would have a good case for a free out-of-warranty repair as it is a design flaw that was there from new
It is covered under the 5y HV-Warranty and there might be a Firmware fix, but no one wants to try out since the repair cost is a few thousand € and renaults goodwill is to low. Is it doable to change the relay without any destruction, e.g. cutting the connector-cables?
Nice video, having had many Zoe myself it's interesting to see what's inside these. Seems more modularised and less optimised than a Tesla Model 3 PCS.
I realise that this is quite an old video, hope you still read the comments. Did you see a chip where the vin. number and other data relative to the vehicle it is fitted to while you dismantled the unit? I am planning on fitting a used unit to my van and if renault have built in a chip to dedicate the unit to a particular vehicle it could be a deal breaker. Thanks
Excellent and amazing video Mike, I have a Zoe Q210 upgraded battery from 22 to 41 kWh and 150,000 km, and from last week it is impossible to charge in public chargers from 2.3 to 43 kW except a Circutor Raption 50 kW, at home 7,4 kW no problem. All RCD disconnect sometimes in the beginning and sometimes in the middle of the charge. I am afraid going Renaut Services, they have not much idea and change parts and I will pay a lot of money. I don't know if the problems is harmonic noise, DC or AC leak, etc. Can you help me what to do? One of them a 22 kW Orbis Viris Uni has 6 mA DC leak detector and the warning was activated. I've just measured harmonics and before is 1.8% and charging 2.0 % and I can't view relevant harmonics in graphic.
Hi, just after some advice. I have a Zoe q210 with the same bcb that u are disassembling. It has stopped charging as I believe it has a fault in the bcb. I have checked the OBD faults and it's coming back with an earth sensing fault that cannot be erased. Just wanted to know if u have any advice on what it could be thanks. Great video by the way.
Another good video 👍 Would be interesting to see a lab instrument teardown or two, have you got a po box address Mike? I'm still working on the projects by the way.
Would somebody mind answering a question for me please? When that common filter fault occurs, can it be repaired without replacing the whole unit? Thanks for the reply.
This unit looks messy. But don't forget that it's extremly hard to get power electronics to fit nicely in the strange shapes that are required to make them fit in a small car (like the Zoe).
The new Zoe CCS charging is an option by default they still only come with 22 kW AC which seems like "we designed this, we are damn well going to use it". So they still have all this gubbins on the new models which is probably similar to this with an add on for the CCS option.
It’s for PWM harmonics filtering. Power factor correction is easily achieved in the current controller in the feedback control system in the firmware. Meeting power grid harmonic current limits can be difficult. Specially if the PWM frequency is low, you’d need a lot of inductance etc. Increasing frequency also increases switching losses so it’s a compromise.
Great video, thanks. The 22 kW unit is completely different, Function of PEB and BCB in one metal box. Pretty sure the blue capacitor is filtering only. Power factor correction is done using the switching. The relay switching 3/1 phase is actually connecting L3 to N. How cool you got one with the welded relay. I also had my hands on one that because of either a relay or control fault could not charge one phase, but happily 3 phase. The relay noises were pretty scary. Hera are some wave forms and the PE-N current insertions. All made by speakev user ElectricBeagle btw. canze.fisch.lu/charger-startup-sequence-the-measurements/
@@rslutsker I don't, only functional. You can find them in the CanZE blog. The phase current, while shaped, is most certainly no perfect sine. I would expect the charger to balk immediately if the N was disconnected, also (and maybe most importantly) because then the N-PE voltage would spike, indicating an unsafe condition. I am curious why you are exploring this scenario?
Hi Mike ,someone has asked me if I know where to we might find teardown video of a Manley Blease ventilator...people trying to make some useful tech for the COVID-19 thing. Any ideas, or got any contacts who might know about such a ventilator? Cheers!
Thanks Mike. What a horrendously overcomplicated setup! Surely it would have been much simpler to have a 5 wire input of 3 phases, a Neutral and Earth? Then there would be no need for any switching of what can also be a Line cable to Neutral.
Where does the hole under the little black plug on the lower right at 0:38 go to? Tends to fall of sometimes and i fear there might get dirt or dust in...
is there a reason to use all the braided sleeve? is it for vibration/movement? or some electrical use like ark shielding? or very simple, cable management?
it protects the wires from getting scrapped or nicked. most normal cars have all the wires protected with a plactic rigig sleeve. it also stiffen them up to prevent them from shaking too much. imagine having a wire swing around for 350,000km? it just wont last and will snap internally.
@@FrozenHaxor Zoe Q210 (2013) owner here, 100k kilometers and still doing great. Battery at 93% state of health. 11 kW charging several times a week, 43 kW fast charging ~10 times a year. Pretty reliable car to be honest, infrastructure here in the Netherlands is decent, which helps I suppose. Apart from a misbehaving public charger from time to time (which used to be much more frequent) no issues whatsoever.
I had to have this replaced on my Renault Zoe when I had one. It had a fault where when charging at the full 43KW it kept tripping an internal sensor but worked fine on 22KW & 7KW Chargers. After a lot of diagnosis with the Dealership & Renault it was found that this was faulty and the error codes seemed to point that the Neutral pin was sensing power when it was on the 43KW units.
aluminium bonding wires and the jelly potting combo is notoriously unreliable in automotive stuff, resulting in the most un-reliable ecus and actuators ever made. Real shame to see this tech still being used :( looking forward to getting loads of these in for repair in 7-10 years time :)
The thick bonding wires for high power are pretty sturdy - I suspect thinner bondwires get affected by gel bouncing around in lower power devices more. Second the comment about Prius power electronics being solid.
Hi, you're very good at explaining what's for what, you're good. I have a zoe does not charge, I disassembled minxen part, I want to fix it, it's supposed to be lightning from the sky. How can you help me, we can talk to each other? I'm in Norway
@@Francois_Dupont And furthermore, it modulates the eccentricity of the compound offset cycloid without affecting the convergent continuum of the battery power wobbulator, or the sync of the flyback discriminator. Pretty nifty stuff! You rarely see any of that being done in a budget system. 😵💫
Imagine what its going to be like in a decade or two, it will be amazing being able to get our hands on monster electronics reasonably cheaply ... Electric cars are awesome but only concern in my head is crash damage (ive seen what happens when you damage lithium cells) lol
it's nothing like as bad as a gasoline fire; people have time to get out, walk across the street and get their phone out. Google "Tesla Model S Spontaneously on Fire in Los Angeles" and you can see the pack venting out the sides of the car, which, while definitely not cool, is a hell of a lot better than a gas tank blowing up. Cops and firefighters are pretty chill about it.
@@DrTuneThanks Fella, I realise that this has of course had serious consideration and will have been extensively tested, like I say was just thinking of what I have seen from ''small'' lithium packs and imagining that on a massive scale :) ...........
@@mikeselectricstuff thanks man found them under kk series from molex www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/kk-series/8428 and chinese aliexpress sellers call their equivalent CH3.96 (polarised). Thanks man. I though it would have some very special name and only 1 brand manufacturer and never thought searching for simply "pin header" with the pitch will give me the result of similar kinda ones. Thanks.
Mine is probably broken (although it throws a input filter module error, but this has been replaced alrady). Renault refused me warranty because I've used a 'non Renault homologated charger' to charge my car :( ...
Mike is right, I'd take them to court. There is no charger in an EVSE, all it does is connect you to the electric supply, as you will see in mike's other videos, it's a relay with some simple control pilot signal with AC. Renault approved is crazy ides, as you wouldn't be able to use the public networks, how would you know what was approved? Also the car should do its checks before closing contactors!
@@sophieclips if only it were so easy. We're talking complimentary warranty. They can basically exclude what they want. It seems to be in the manual (I never had one) that you are only allowed to charge with ZE homologated chargers. Of course it's bullshit and they almost never enforce it. In my case they do. I was thinking about claiming that's so unusual one is not supposed to know, but anyway. They're also denying me the legally biding warranty. Yes, I could sue them. My lawyer (the one that even cared to reply) told me I need to find an expert that convinces the judge (find that in Spain...) and that Renault will have a convincing expert for sure. If I lose, it'll cost me more than the repair.
It all seems very over engineered, especially those connectors. Is there really no simpler way to connect two high-current conductors together inside a plastic connector? So many molded parts and fiddly metal bits!
why so much strangely shaped aluminum pieces, its way too much over-engineered are electronics this much explosive that it must be contained by thick aluminum like a ICE engine ?
They just need new training. Someone classically trained on petrol cars can still fix & replace tires, top up washer fluid and replace brake pads... but going forward most of a mechanic's work will be hooking up a computer with licensed, make-specific software and swapping out the modules that the computer says are bad.
@@anonymic79 I don't disagree with what you're saying and by the way I'm a diehard proponent of right-to-repair legislation. I just think what you're describing is more of a refurb parts market than a mechanic's work as such. It's not as if Mechanic Mike is going to his electronics lab to troubleshoot and tinker with a busted module in working billable hours? I expect EVs will be saddled with DRM bullshit on Apple levels to prevent "grey market" refurbished replacement modules to be used, but I expect there will be a cottage industry of repair shops mending common failure modes in these modules, allowing them to become under-the-counter cheaper alternatives to vendor-sanctioned official replacements.
@@KanalFrump Do you really want to be driving beside a car that has a bodged repair job that could cause it to catch fire whilst driving @ 50mph? At least with a phone if it catches fire you can always throw it... I think the "grease monkey" from the 50s would find it difficult if not impossible to work on a modern car, never mind an EV. There's just little need for mechanical finesse now as the tweeks are performed through software...
@@KanalFrump You're not going to see a whole lot of "grey market" power electronics components for EVs because of the very specific skills and equipment needed to repair/design such parts. Also, if you botch anything the result could potentially be a blown drivetrain/electrical system and/or a big ole fire. So would you really want to use 3rd-party refurbed components? You don't really know what it is you're getting. These modules need to be able to handle potentially hundreds of amps at high voltage, which is serious stuff. You don't want any potential foul-ups or bad/under-spec components used during assembly/repair.
@@AgentOffice depending on hv to lv pole transformer setup , domestic supply can be 3ph 230/240v , mostly for safety each premise will be on 1 phase 230/240v unless requested otherwise, . generally 3 phase 400/415v for commercial supply upwards,
Hello i have a renault kangoo electric and I would like to charge the batterie while im driving with a generator in a trailer ore in the car (its a van type). Do you think this is possible ?
@@daniellybaert1958 you will waste more than 50% of the power from your propane/gasoline source. at that point you better buy a gasoline car and add some electric backup in it.
why have such complex charger in EACH car when you could have one or two into each charging station and only have some safety in the car and a couple of safety in your battery pack.
That mean that you trust a third party to properly manage the charge of your battery. Yes I know it can be done but currently there is so many Standards and yet nobody in the industry is set to follow the same rules. (Unlike the USB port)
@@zeuss194 when you put gas in your car, dont you trust them not to have water or acid in it? there is a whole set of regulation for gasoline and diesel. this should be the same for electric charging station.
if we can force car manufacturer to have airbags, light and bumper specifically made for X and Y laws, you dont think we should do the same for electric car charging station? its pretty simple too: car- hello i am X model of car, i want DC ramping for 300 to 600 along 30min time frame. maximum 200amps. station- aye aye captain, power incoming! i am no programmer nor electrical engineer, but with our current technology it is very easy to do.
@@Francois_Dupont "Yes I know it can be done" , As you said there no real technical challenge (communication between charger and battery is common on cellphone and laptop nowaday) It's is more about the lack of will from manufacturers to go for a single road and lack of "enforcement" from politics.
Better know what you doing then let some idiots do it instead (third party and similar shit) and blame it all on Renault when the shit hit the fan one day.
Hello I would have liked to communicate with you directly. I am CEO of UPANDCHARGE and I would need information concerning the charging of the batteries of the Zoe. how can we communicate. The best would be by phone or video. Thank you. guy
This unit seems very clumsy to me! Uses the eMachine inductance but still requires 8kg of addiotnal series inductance, and is made up of lots of individual units, with lots of glue wiring harnesses and poor integration! Must be very expensive to build! Compare it to the much more integrated solutionns from Tesla etc! (Feels like 2010 tech to me, not 2020 tech!)
Yeah, everything is so random, a lot of random pieces, cables, weird layout decisions, and general chaos. This earth current sensing shunt and board are super weird as indicated by Mike.
@@movax20h I think they are using the shunt as part of the high frequency isometry, whihc injects a low voltage AC square wave between the battery and the chassis, and monitors the current that flows to establish the integrity of that isolation. A company called Bender have a lot of patents on this method of isometry, so perhaps lear have rolled their own solution to avoid those patents?
Yeah good luck, just compare this to the fuel injection system for a modern ICE. The high pressure fuel pump alone is a mechanical nightmare/masterpiece.
@@allesklarklaus147 I agree that modern internal combustion engines are now too complicated, bottom line, both approaches do not do much in terms of simplicity
DgaDM Well, electric cars are much simpler. The reduced moving parts count from 1000 (rough approximation) to 3 in the powertrain is pretty significant. Electronics on both are essentially the same if you consider that ECU and the transmission electronics (with a lot of valves n shit) are gone on an electric car.. And if you think of all the driver entertaining and safety stuff this charging unit really is quite simple.
The Zoe, and this model of Zoe in particular is an older type of EV, and there's some funky "French" style engineering solutions in it that may overcomplicate things (like re-using the motor windings as a part of the battery charging circuitry for example; NOT a common design choice in other vehicles - in fact I know of no other which does this.) This car is not representative of fresh EV designs coming off the drawing board today. Also, if you think an ICE is any less complicated... lol Just try ripping a modern gasser engine apart down to individual components like in this video and see for yourself. ;)
@@lennyvalentin6485 sorry, but I cannot agree here. Both platforms, EVs and ICEs are becoming more and more complicated and thus less reliable and more costly to repair and to keep them going. Plus, a lot of the functionality is hidden in software, and if you don't have access to documentation, fixing will be near to impossible.
This is a German family design. For each capacitor and resistor, the Germans have separate company, which is managed by a family member. Only such resistors and capacitors meet stringent standards and do not affect global warming.
LOL! Even with electric cars the French haven't learned how to do electronics. The thing is completely nuts. No way that's profitable to make or service.
If it was made in Quebec, the better french speaking area, things would be different. Send me the schematics and I will design 2 pcb's, Logic and Power. It would be very flat. Quebec Sait Faire!
hello, how are we, greetings and a big hug from a distance, I greet you from Spain and I really liked this video because you had investigated and we are investigating the charger and they solved a doubt for me. and you make your skin images and I also see some breakdowns that result from that creator gives a lot of war and the truth is that well it can be repaired too but by his teacher a little bit of the architecture that the electronics have, which is very complex and the truth is that in the house ask for one for thank you very much for your video and continue like this please send me your email so I can share other information that will surely catch your attention greeting
Hi, thanks for this video, very interresting. You correctly guessed a ot of elements :)
A few technical indications though:
- On the rectifier control board, this is an Actel/Microsemi/Microchip (in order of company acquisition) A3P125 praetorian FPGA, not a plebeian CPLD :P It mostly manages safety redundancy and some basic low-level / high-speed functions (OC and OV detection and latching, blanking and dead-time correction ...). There has been some experiments of making it do the PWM generation instead of the MCU, but it showed unconclusive in terms of efficiency for the system.
- There are two CAN transceivers on this board, one for the vehicle CAN and board power management (TJA1043), one for the transmission of the BOOST signal, which uses the CAN analog transport interface for noise immunity, thus the transceiver is a much simpler one, with no timeout protection, since the signal is a simple 10kHz PWM.
- The shunt board generates a 100kHz PWM that indicates the neutral current, and is read by the MCU (since there are no isolated analog links in the isolator chip, the value has to be transmitted with digital signal).
- The input module control board (with the DSPIC) has no CAN transceiver, it is not connected to the CAN bus. The compnents you saw are LVDS transceivers, which give some noise immunity to the SPI bus between the rectifier and the input module. This bus goes through the small shielded harness. This link is really noisy, thus the SPI frequency is pretty low (5MHz).
- The Input Module having no connection to the CAN bus of the vehicle, it is not a "standalone" ECU that can be accessed through the ODB plug. It is a slave module for the rectifier. In addition, there is no mean for reprogramming through the SPI, thus the presence of the ICSP connector for eventual update.
- Being a slave module for the rectifier, the input module only does analog measurements of mains voltages and currents, and manages some relays, including pre-charge relay, pretty much like some kind of evoluted IO expander. You are right : the content of ths program in this module is not very interresting.
No Renault not interesting 😁😆😆😆😆
Does that mean that if it fails there is no way to know unless you open the unit physically ?
Mike redefines the meaning of in-depth tear down. Great vid, thank you!
"Would be rude not to take a look..."
Hello, I used to work in the factory that was making some of the wire on the renault ZOE. These are one of the most high end stuff we made there.
I greatly appreciate these detailed teardowns and commentary, so much to learn here.
Perfect pronunciation of "Isabellenhütte" 👍
I am more impressed by connectors and interlocks than by electronics.
They look fragile and overly complex to me, but I'm no expert ;-) It would be interesting to compare with other brands.
They seem like the outcome of an odd engineering tradeoff between reliability and speed/ease of assembly; bolted lugs (perhaps with a plastic cover containing the interlock mechanism and sealing) would be more reliable, but much slower to assemble.
Gobsmacked by the level of engineering in that thing
whoa that audio gain around 2:00 scared the shit outta me
Re the comment at 20:24; I designed the GMI (ground impedance test) circuit for an EV 'charger' (EVSE; unfortunately can't describe how it works b/c commercial confidentiality) but it did not require anything fancy or highspeed; three or four dirt-cheap commodity silicon parts and some passives. The BOM for that section is maybe $3. I don't know how 'other people do it' but the solution I came up with is simple and works fine (can safely measure the gnd impedance from a few ohms to kilohms; enough accuracy as we just need to not activate power if the ground is no good, actual trip points fairly loosely defined in standards). There was a bit of headscratching as it's not immediately obvious (wasn't to me) how to do it - we worked out some viable-but-complicated ideas, then I had a lightbulb moment and it turned out to be simple and cheap.
Checking earth form the car's end is rather different as it has no reliable reference for what earth is, as it sits on insulated tyres.
Could you emphasize on the earth-checking system of Zoe, please? I paid an electrician to install new 3phase 5wire cable and 5pin CEE32A socket. He'll do that next week. I told him that the car is earth-picky but he didn't get what I mean. He said that in our country the Neutral and Earth are galvanicly conected and that he will short them at the main power box. Should I tell him to connect the Earth wire from the new cable to an Earth rod, instead(there is a suitable damp place to install one)?
I heard that it would just measure one of the additional L2 or L3 phases to decide if the supply is single or 3 phase. 3 phase plugs usually are required to have a 3 phase circuit breaker, avoiding a phase missing on the plug. But any main fuse of a building needs to be a fuse that melts, so it is not tripping all phases, risky not to monitor all phases then. Don't forget, it is a french car, it doesn't have faults, it has character ;)
As they say, it's not a bug, it's a feature!
Some tethered public charger cables are in terrible condition, so a broken L2 core is totally plausible
Grubby contactors in public chargers, very easy for a phase to be missing. Hope someone sends a 22kW one in to Mike. The 22kW does still very much make sense with CCS too, as the new one has, as I regularly charge at 22kW AC only chargers.But agree 43kW is dying, given that they are costly to add to rapids due to being tethered thick cables. A 22kW socket is similar cost to a 7kW if there's a 3phase supply to the unit anyway
Can't wait to see what character Landrover manages to build in if they make an EV. I'm sure it'll be the first EV to leak oil from the charger module.
Great teardown! First time I've seen the inside of one.
Hi Mike! Excellent video.
We have a 2013 reg Zoe with this BCB setup, we have our car at a Renault dealer for the 3rd year in a row with the filter unit going faulty. The Renault Dealers can never work it out its hilarious!
The first year the dealer had the car for 6 months and replaced everything motor, gearbox, BCB the lot under warranty problem solved lol.
The second year they kept giving it back to us saying its was the cable, no fault found etc, meanwhile we blew most of the public charge points in the north west. It took for BP Chargemaster in the end to send out an engineer to test the car whilst charging, what we found was after about 20 mins or so charging at 22kw 3phase the inverter would get hot (you could here a loud fan come on) and the amp reading from L2 would loose 10 amps, whist checking the earth, it gained 10 amps back to the charge point so the L2 circuit was short circuit. Filter replaced under warranty after me bugging them about it problem solved) . We think the problem is we only charge on 3 phase public charge points at 22kw the filters dont seem to last longer than 6k miles worth of that kind of charging.
Anyway here we are again for the third year in a row! we have been getting slight shocks of the body recently and now its has blown charge points again after 6k miles, this year when it first did it, it sent a surge through the car and flicked off all the 12v breakers in the car until ignition was reset. Now the dealership say we have to pay a stupid amount of money so a Technician can chase down fault code "006023" which is a Renault specific DTC for the EVC. We know its the filter box going faulty again but unfortunately for us Renault insist on plugging in a 5v DC computer to tell them answers on a 600v ac system.
So we had a question for you, do you know if the EVC is the ecu that controls inverter setup (Filter Box etc). And do you know of the code from Renault so I can pin it to the Filter Box to save getting an electrician to a charge point, thanks.
Hi, Is your car Q90 or R90? I didn't get from this long video which model has that problem and how to prevent from happening?
Wow what a shitty car, hope you got rid of it what a PITA!
Lever-lock connectors are actually very common in car wire harnesses since a long times, the ones used here are just using an usual lock-lever design, on steroids.
as for that current sensor board, we have all taken too much adderall or drank too much coffee and drastically over designed a board
but in all seriousness this is a fantastic teardown i always enjoy these
That connecting a phase to neutral fault can also happen on Konas combined with a Zappi 3 phase charger. The charger swaps between 1 and 3 phase to fine tune the amount of power the car can take and under the right combination of conditions, bang!
Really surprising to see all those fancy sleeved cables inside of a sealed module
The relay switched caps to ground are probably switched because those capacitor values they needed for enough EMI suppression are too large to give a safe touch current if the ground is interrupted and because they would trip RCDs if connected as usual from both line and neutral to ground. Relay 3 would be energized for a three phase supply where the X2 capacitor midpoints are close to ground potential. Relay 1 or 2 would energize for a single phase feed depending on if line and neutral are reversed (1) or not (2).
Love this electric car tech thanks Mike
The construction/latches/interlocks at the end are really interesting.
Electronic Engineering Etiquette 101 ... Since they provided an ICSP it would be rude not trying reading it.
Great video! Do you know which relay activated the battery heater in the Q90 Zoe? I would like preheating the battery, before charging in winter, to have max DC charging power.
I lvoed my Zoe but the charging system was fickle and unneccessarily complex. Just like the heat pump which was pointless below 0 C, and made the heating/cooling excessively loud. And despite all the complicated charging electronics, you can't even set the charge current inside the car. I had the 22kW version with the 22kWh battery (R240). Now I'm driving a Model 3 and I have to say it's a completely different beast. Especially if you lease, the relatively small difference in monthly payment makes it really hard to go for a Zoe, even the latest one.
Still, I enjoyed driving my Zoe. It was a quirky little car that had a lot of spunk going from 0-50kph. And the driving position and seat was VERY comfortable.
I really enjoyed the video . EVs are so cool.
Insane quality
The Relay-Melting-Error happens when a Charging-Session is started without L2 but with live L1 and L3, because only L2 gets checked to determine 1ph or 3ph ( www.goingelectric.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=26015&p=588280&hilit=zoe+relais+kurzschluss#p588280 ).
The Module looks like the 43 kW Version (Conti, Q), the 22 kW (Renault, R) Engineroom looks completely different i2.wp.com/www.zoe-club-austria.at/main/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/MotorVergleich_Q210R240.jpg?ssl=1 .
That sounds like a major design flaw. Check L3 before trying to connect it to neutral.
That is so dumb - I think anyone experiencing it would have a good case for a free out-of-warranty repair as it is a design flaw that was there from new
It is covered under the 5y HV-Warranty and there might be a Firmware fix, but no one wants to try out since the repair cost is a few thousand € and renaults goodwill is to low.
Is it doable to change the relay without any destruction, e.g. cutting the connector-cables?
a €5000 phut-bzzz noise maker then?
All those elaborate self checking safety systems and interlocks and they miss something like that, oops to whoever wrote those test scripts.
Thanks for increasing the sound at 120 seconds! LOL
Please do a teardown of a telematics ecu
Do you think it would be possible to integrate DC charging into the battery charger block, if a seperate CHAdeMO controller is used?
Nice video, having had many Zoe myself it's interesting to see what's inside these. Seems more modularised and less optimised than a Tesla Model 3 PCS.
Your scrap bin must be a fun rummage!
on the power board. was that coated copper og gold?
I realise that this is quite an old video, hope you still read the comments.
Did you see a chip where the vin. number and other data relative to the vehicle it is fitted to while you dismantled the unit?
I am planning on fitting a used unit to my van and if renault have built in a chip to dedicate the unit to a particular vehicle it could be a deal breaker.
Thanks
Excellent and amazing video Mike, I have a Zoe Q210 upgraded battery from 22 to 41 kWh and 150,000 km, and from last week it is impossible to charge in public chargers from 2.3 to 43 kW except a Circutor Raption 50 kW, at home 7,4 kW no problem. All RCD disconnect sometimes in the beginning and sometimes in the middle of the charge. I am afraid going Renaut Services, they have not much idea and change parts and I will pay a lot of money. I don't know if the problems is harmonic noise, DC or AC leak, etc. Can you help me what to do? One of them a 22 kW Orbis Viris Uni has 6 mA DC leak detector and the warning was activated. I've just measured harmonics and before is 1.8% and charging 2.0 % and I can't view relevant harmonics in graphic.
Hi, just after some advice. I have a Zoe q210 with the same bcb that u are disassembling. It has stopped charging as I believe it has a fault in the bcb. I have checked the OBD faults and it's coming back with an earth sensing fault that cannot be erased. Just wanted to know if u have any advice on what it could be thanks. Great video by the way.
Another good video 👍
Would be interesting to see a lab instrument teardown or two, have you got a po box address Mike?
I'm still working on the projects by the way.
Would somebody mind answering a question for me please? When that common filter fault occurs, can it be repaired without replacing the whole unit? Thanks for the reply.
This unit looks messy. But don't forget that it's extremly hard to get power electronics to fit nicely in the strange shapes that are required to make them fit in a small car (like the Zoe).
Very nice video thanks a lot! Did you manage to figure out part number for igbt power module?
The new Zoe CCS charging is an option by default they still only come with 22 kW AC which seems like "we designed this, we are damn well going to use it". So they still have all this gubbins on the new models which is probably similar to this with an add on for the CCS option.
New episode! Thanks
Hi Mike, cann you repair may Zoe. I have a problem with the BCB unit.
did you keep any of the parts? there's some bits I could use to fix our car in there!
That board with lots of caps, relays and inductors - perhaps it's a configurable power factor correction set?
It’s for PWM harmonics filtering. Power factor correction is easily achieved in the current controller in the feedback control system in the firmware.
Meeting power grid harmonic current limits can be difficult. Specially if the PWM frequency is low, you’d need a lot of inductance etc. Increasing frequency also increases switching losses so it’s a compromise.
Great video, thanks. The 22 kW unit is completely different, Function of PEB and BCB in one metal box. Pretty sure the blue capacitor is filtering only. Power factor correction is done using the switching. The relay switching 3/1 phase is actually connecting L3 to N. How cool you got one with the welded relay. I also had my hands on one that because of either a relay or control fault could not charge one phase, but happily 3 phase. The relay noises were pretty scary.
Hera are some wave forms and the PE-N current insertions. All made by speakev user ElectricBeagle btw. canze.fisch.lu/charger-startup-sequence-the-measurements/
do you have schematics? I'm curious what will happen if N is disconnected when charging?
@@rslutsker I don't, only functional. You can find them in the CanZE blog. The phase current, while shaped, is most certainly no perfect sine. I would expect the charger to balk immediately if the N was disconnected, also (and maybe most importantly) because then the N-PE voltage would spike, indicating an unsafe condition. I am curious why you are exploring this scenario?
great video
Does any one know where the CP line from the charger connect to the BCB, it is not with the mains input
Hi Mike ,someone has asked me if I know where to we might find teardown video of a Manley Blease ventilator...people trying to make some useful tech for the COVID-19 thing. Any ideas, or got any contacts who might know about such a ventilator? Cheers!
Nice!
Thanks Mike. What a horrendously overcomplicated setup! Surely it would have been much simpler to have a 5 wire input of 3 phases, a Neutral and Earth? Then there would be no need for any switching of what can also be a Line cable to Neutral.
Where does the hole under the little black plug on the lower right at 0:38 go to? Tends to fall of sometimes and i fear there might get dirt or dust in...
Looks like a vent, to allow air pressure to equalise but not let water in
is there a reason to use all the braided sleeve? is it for vibration/movement? or some electrical use like ark shielding? or very simple, cable management?
it protects the wires from getting scrapped or nicked. most normal cars have all the wires protected with a plactic rigig sleeve. it also stiffen them up to prevent them from shaking too much. imagine having a wire swing around for 350,000km? it just wont last and will snap internally.
@@Francois_Dupont From what I read, those Renault cars don't even last a 100.000 km.
@@FrozenHaxor its good for the economy! what a way to create jobs, they thought of everything.
@@FrozenHaxor Zoe Q210 (2013) owner here, 100k kilometers and still doing great. Battery at 93% state of health. 11 kW charging several times a week, 43 kW fast charging ~10 times a year. Pretty reliable car to be honest, infrastructure here in the Netherlands is decent, which helps I suppose. Apart from a misbehaving public charger from time to time (which used to be much more frequent) no issues whatsoever.
Brilliant.
Who was using the impact driver in the background in the first couple of minutes?
The Cat.
I had to have this replaced on my Renault Zoe when I had one. It had a fault where when charging at the full 43KW it kept tripping an internal sensor but worked fine on 22KW & 7KW Chargers. After a lot of diagnosis with the Dealership & Renault it was found that this was faulty and the error codes seemed to point that the Neutral pin was sensing power when it was on the 43KW units.
Ryan Walmsley how much did it cost? Mine needs a replacement
aluminium bonding wires and the jelly potting combo is notoriously unreliable in automotive stuff, resulting in the most un-reliable ecus and actuators ever made. Real shame to see this tech still being used :( looking forward to getting loads of these in for repair in 7-10 years time :)
toyota hybrid inverters use those too
theyre some of the most reliable cars ever made
The thick bonding wires for high power are pretty sturdy - I suspect thinner bondwires get affected by gel bouncing around in lower power devices more. Second the comment about Prius power electronics being solid.
As it‘s water cooled, it should be a 43kW charger. They don‘t water cool the 22kW charger.
Exact....
Alien technology !
Thanks
A bit messy design, with wiring, PCBs everywhere. I think that the new version (R240) must be well better integrated.
Hi, you're very good at explaining what's for what, you're good. I have a zoe does not charge, I disassembled minxen part, I want to fix it, it's supposed to be lightning from the sky. How can you help me, we can talk to each other? I'm in Norway
Does anyone know which program Mike is using to draw his schematics in the video?
PCad2006
@@mikeselectricstuff Cant get that any more, it is now Altium designer, you can obtain a student non comercial version from Altium free of charge.
Nice
It’s a 43KW unit.
That strange board next to the shunt is probably an active EMI injector.
i think this is a pulsation modulator for the oscillating driving of the driving ondulator used for the syncrotron.
@@Francois_Dupont And furthermore, it modulates the eccentricity of the compound offset cycloid without affecting the convergent continuum of the battery power wobbulator, or the sync of the flyback discriminator. Pretty nifty stuff! You rarely see any of that being done in a budget system. 😵💫
11:29 what are those traces made out of ? pure graphite ?
Aluminum, apparently. This process is called wire bonding.
do you need all these parts?
If not, I can adopt them😉
It's the 43kW version.
Imagine what its going to be like in a decade or two, it will be amazing being able to get our hands on monster electronics reasonably cheaply ... Electric cars are awesome but only concern in my head is crash damage (ive seen what happens when you damage lithium cells) lol
it's nothing like as bad as a gasoline fire; people have time to get out, walk across the street and get their phone out. Google "Tesla Model S Spontaneously on Fire in Los Angeles" and you can see the pack venting out the sides of the car, which, while definitely not cool, is a hell of a lot better than a gas tank blowing up. Cops and firefighters are pretty chill about it.
@@DrTuneThanks Fella, I realise that this has of course had serious consideration and will have been extensively tested, like I say was just thinking of what I have seen from ''small'' lithium packs and imagining that on a massive scale :) ...........
Anyone can tell me what the connector on 24:57 is ? Seen it so many times in regular consumer electronics dont know what it is.
Agnishekhar Rudra Pal Maybe a Molex type, but i dont really know.
It's a 0.156" pitch pin header - many manufacturers make them.
@@mikeselectricstuff thanks man found them under kk series from molex
www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/kk-series/8428 and chinese aliexpress sellers call their equivalent CH3.96 (polarised). Thanks man. I though it would have some very special name and only 1 brand manufacturer and never thought searching for simply "pin header" with the pitch will give me the result of similar kinda ones. Thanks.
@@mikeselectricstuff Oh, if only it was 0.15748031496063" pitch! Then it would be a nice simple 4 mm. 😁👍
Mine is probably broken (although it throws a input filter module error, but this has been replaced alrady). Renault refused me warranty because I've used a 'non Renault homologated charger' to charge my car :( ...
That is bullshit - take them to court.
Mike is right, I'd take them to court. There is no charger in an EVSE, all it does is connect you to the electric supply, as you will see in mike's other videos, it's a relay with some simple control pilot signal with AC. Renault approved is crazy ides, as you wouldn't be able to use the public networks, how would you know what was approved?
Also the car should do its checks before closing contactors!
@@sophieclips if only it were so easy. We're talking complimentary warranty. They can basically exclude what they want. It seems to be in the manual (I never had one) that you are only allowed to charge with ZE homologated chargers. Of course it's bullshit and they almost never enforce it. In my case they do. I was thinking about claiming that's so unusual one is not supposed to know, but anyway. They're also denying me the legally biding warranty. Yes, I could sue them. My lawyer (the one that even cared to reply) told me I need to find an expert that convinces the judge (find that in Spain...) and that Renault will have a convincing expert for sure. If I lose, it'll cost me more than the repair.
Any reason to make that casing weigh so much?
Heatsink
Needs to be sturdy enough to handle and large bumps the cars hits.
One "interesting" aspect of this system is that if you supply only 2 phases, Zoe will cause a RCD fault.
Not true. RCD will trip only if there is leakage.
I had Zoe being connected to L1/L1/L3 and it has displayed 'check charging station'
It all seems very over engineered, especially those connectors. Is there really no simpler way to connect two high-current conductors together inside a plastic connector? So many molded parts and fiddly metal bits!
why so much strangely shaped aluminum pieces, its way too much over-engineered
are electronics this much explosive that it must be contained by thick aluminum like a ICE engine ?
That thing alone looks like $5,000. How much is the car?
I think it costs sometimes about 4000 €
ICE mechanics must look at this as steam engineers looked at a 'V8'.
Mechanics tend to look at the sealed modules in modern ICE vehicles and grumble, these aren't any less repairable by their standards.
Mechanics as we know them are a thing of the past
They just need new training. Someone classically trained on petrol cars can still fix & replace tires, top up washer fluid and replace brake pads... but going forward most of a mechanic's work will be hooking up a computer with licensed, make-specific software and swapping out the modules that the computer says are bad.
@@anonymic79 I don't disagree with what you're saying and by the way I'm a diehard proponent of right-to-repair legislation. I just think what you're describing is more of a refurb parts market than a mechanic's work as such. It's not as if Mechanic Mike is going to his electronics lab to troubleshoot and tinker with a busted module in working billable hours? I expect EVs will be saddled with DRM bullshit on Apple levels to prevent "grey market" refurbished replacement modules to be used, but I expect there will be a cottage industry of repair shops mending common failure modes in these modules, allowing them to become under-the-counter cheaper alternatives to vendor-sanctioned official replacements.
@@KanalFrump Do you really want to be driving beside a car that has a bodged repair job that could cause it to catch fire whilst driving @ 50mph? At least with a phone if it catches fire you can always throw it...
I think the "grease monkey" from the 50s would find it difficult if not impossible to work on a modern car, never mind an EV. There's just little need for mechanical finesse now as the tweeks are performed through software...
@@KanalFrump You're not going to see a whole lot of "grey market" power electronics components for EVs because of the very specific skills and equipment needed to repair/design such parts. Also, if you botch anything the result could potentially be a blown drivetrain/electrical system and/or a big ole fire. So would you really want to use 3rd-party refurbed components? You don't really know what it is you're getting.
These modules need to be able to handle potentially hundreds of amps at high voltage, which is serious stuff. You don't want any potential foul-ups or bad/under-spec components used during assembly/repair.
Where does 3 phase come from
Most european houses have a 3-phase supply
@@lukahierl9857 weird i thought 240 was 1 phase
@@AgentOffice Britain is traditionally single phase (google "ring mains") while the rest of europe is three phase throughout.
uk national grid 3 phase , including pole runs all generally 3 phase, 3 phase generated from power station, been like this for a long time.
@@AgentOffice depending on hv to lv pole transformer setup , domestic supply can be 3ph 230/240v , mostly for safety each premise will be on 1 phase 230/240v unless requested otherwise, . generally 3 phase 400/415v for commercial supply upwards,
Every now and then i find my self screaming 'focus you fuck' to the screen 😅
*tip fedora*
Be polite.
Hello i have a renault kangoo electric and I would like to charge the batterie while im driving with a generator in a trailer ore in the car (its a van type). Do you think this is possible ?
It's possible but not practical. You'd need a huge gen to generate enough power to make a difference. If that's what you need then buy a hybrid.
@@jagardina i have a 6,5 kw gen that can run on lpg/gas thats good , bud how to connect AND drive? I think the sofware must be reprogrammed
@@daniellybaert1958 no idea, but my chevy bolt won't let you drive without unplugging first. So probably yeah.
@@daniellybaert1958 you will waste more than 50% of the power from your propane/gasoline source. at that point you better buy a gasoline car and add some electric backup in it.
@@Francois_Dupont I would use it only for the few long trips that i do. Because the Kangoo (old type) have a max. range of 90 km.
why have such complex charger in EACH car when you could have one or two into each charging station and only have some safety in the car and a couple of safety in your battery pack.
That mean that you trust a third party to properly manage the charge of your battery.
Yes I know it can be done but currently there is so many Standards and yet nobody in the industry is set to follow the same rules. (Unlike the USB port)
@@zeuss194 when you put gas in your car, dont you trust them not to have water or acid in it? there is a whole set of regulation for gasoline and diesel. this should be the same for electric charging station.
if we can force car manufacturer to have airbags, light and bumper specifically made for X and Y laws, you dont think we should do the same for electric car charging station? its pretty simple too:
car- hello i am X model of car, i want DC ramping for 300 to 600 along 30min time frame. maximum 200amps.
station- aye aye captain, power incoming!
i am no programmer nor electrical engineer, but with our current technology it is very easy to do.
@@Francois_Dupont "Yes I know it can be done" , As you said there no real technical challenge (communication between charger and battery is common on cellphone and laptop nowaday)
It's is more about the lack of will from manufacturers to go for a single road and lack of "enforcement" from politics.
Better know what you doing then let some idiots do it instead (third party and similar shit) and blame it all on Renault when the shit hit the fan one day.
Q engine 43kW
I love it
Hello
I would have liked to communicate with you directly.
I am CEO of UPANDCHARGE and I would need information concerning the charging of the batteries of the Zoe.
how can we communicate.
The best would be by phone or video.
Thank you.
guy
Ask Renault? Oh wait, it’s intellectual property and copyrights.
10:12 What is the part number?
At mass scale, the amount of electronics waste that these things will eventually become is unreal.
Easily dealt with.
imagine all the toxic elements and chemical that is in those PCBs and component.
That's kind of what RoHS is all about dealing with...
There's a lot more toxic waste from oil extraction, refining, transport and burning.
This unit seems very clumsy to me! Uses the eMachine inductance but still requires 8kg of addiotnal series inductance, and is made up of lots of individual units, with lots of glue wiring harnesses and poor integration! Must be very expensive to build! Compare it to the much more integrated solutionns from Tesla etc! (Feels like 2010 tech to me, not 2020 tech!)
Yeah, everything is so random, a lot of random pieces, cables, weird layout decisions, and general chaos. This earth current sensing shunt and board are super weird as indicated by Mike.
@@movax20h I think they are using the shunt as part of the high frequency isometry, whihc injects a low voltage AC square wave between the battery and the chassis, and monitors the current that flows to establish the integrity of that isolation. A company called Bender have a lot of patents on this method of isometry, so perhaps lear have rolled their own solution to avoid those patents?
It is 2010 tech because the car came out 2012
My mind is blown with the insane over engineering. Yet they forget to measure each input before turning on relays
Renault melt down previous versions of the Clio to make their Blocks
This is similar to the Mac Pro, the case is carved out of a huge aluminium block. Just why?
Thats pretty sure injection molded :)
Looks like a fairly normal die cast aluminium case. Only machining I saw was on the surfaces with thermal paste for water cooling.
do you even know what casting is?
@@Francois_Dupont Yes, I looked it up on porntube. Great stuff.
@@gabest4 i just reported you to the inquisitor.
1960's cars have 3 wires, starter, ignition, alternator/generator.
All that is needed.
Renault 😂😂😂🤔 error no car 😭😂
I show this video to everyone who claims that an electric car is so much simpler than a car with a conventional internal combustion engine ...
Yeah good luck, just compare this to the fuel injection system for a modern ICE. The high pressure fuel pump alone is a mechanical nightmare/masterpiece.
@@allesklarklaus147 I agree that modern internal combustion engines are now too complicated, bottom line, both approaches do not do much in terms of simplicity
DgaDM Well, electric cars are much simpler. The reduced moving parts count from 1000 (rough approximation) to 3 in the powertrain is pretty significant. Electronics on both are essentially the same if you consider that ECU and the transmission electronics (with a lot of valves n shit) are gone on an electric car.. And if you think of all the driver entertaining and safety stuff this charging unit really is quite simple.
The Zoe, and this model of Zoe in particular is an older type of EV, and there's some funky "French" style engineering solutions in it that may overcomplicate things (like re-using the motor windings as a part of the battery charging circuitry for example; NOT a common design choice in other vehicles - in fact I know of no other which does this.)
This car is not representative of fresh EV designs coming off the drawing board today. Also, if you think an ICE is any less complicated... lol Just try ripping a modern gasser engine apart down to individual components like in this video and see for yourself. ;)
@@lennyvalentin6485 sorry, but I cannot agree here. Both platforms, EVs and ICEs are becoming more and more complicated and thus less reliable and more costly to repair and to keep them going. Plus, a lot of the functionality is hidden in software, and if you don't have access to documentation, fixing will be near to impossible.
This is a German family design. For each capacitor and resistor, the Germans have separate company, which is managed by a family member. Only such resistors and capacitors meet stringent standards and do not affect global warming.
I think those cars can't last 5 years longer.
LOL! Even with electric cars the French haven't learned how to do electronics. The thing is completely nuts. No way that's profitable to make or service.
This is no doubt the 2011 design. It was an interesting idea to have high current AC charging.
Yes, its ridiculously over complicated.
It's just an high power, overcomplicated brushless motor driver...
watching this vid I thought "well, that's an easy weekend project"; may whip one up this afternoon..
It is not. This is the charger
If it was made in Quebec, the better french speaking area, things would be different.
Send me the schematics and I will design 2 pcb's, Logic and Power. It would be very flat.
Quebec Sait Faire!
LOL Go Nordiques!
The government makes them do this and pays for it with tax dollars,
The massive bass plosives absolutely ruin the presentation. Unwatchable on a full range audio system. NEXT!
Get bent saggy
hello, how are we, greetings and a big hug from a distance, I greet you from Spain and I really liked this video because you had investigated and we are investigating the charger and they solved a doubt for me. and you make your skin images and I also see some breakdowns that result from that creator gives a lot of war and the truth is that well it can be repaired too but by his teacher a little bit of the architecture that the electronics have, which is very complex and the truth is that in the house ask for one for thank you very much for your video and continue like this please send me your email so I can share other information that will surely catch your attention greeting