Schizoid Narcissist is Not Covert Narcissist
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- Some narcissists are not gregarious because they have a comorbid Schizoid Personality Disorder or because life pushed them to become schizoid (see next video). They avoid social events and are stay-at-home recluses. Doesn't this behaviour go against the grain of narcissism?
Howard H. Goldman (Ed.) in the "Review of General Psychiatry" [4th Edition. London, Prentice Hall International, 1995]:
"The person with Schizoid Personality Disorder sustains a fragile emotional equilibrium by avoiding intimate personal contact and thereby minimising conflict that is poorly tolerated."
Schizoid narcissists are not covert narcissists:
1. Covert narcissists are shy and anxious and convert their social dysfunction into an ideology;
2. Covert narcissists react emotionally to negative and positive supply;
3. Narcissists engage in sex and enjoy it.
Admittedly, they use sex only in order to acquire a potential partner for a shared fantasy. If someone is deemed to not be a potential partner or once the partner is acquired, narcissists become asexual. They remain sexually active within a dyad only to forestall abandonment.
If the schizoid narcissist is also a sadist, the sex is kinky and revolves around despoiling the partner (who accepts it and compromises her needs).
The schizoid somatic narcissist is autoerotic and uses his sex partners for self-gratification and as a form of narcissistic supply.
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I recognize myself as a Schizoid. Possibly a narcissist, but I tend to get my narcissistic supply purely from my own fantasies/daydreams. I will however incorporate people I know IRL into my fantasies, though in edited versions. So I guess it could be argued that the real people are at the core of my narcissistic supply, only as idealized/altered snapshots of themselves. I find this to be an excellent strategy, since I get exactly what I want and need from people, without hurting them. I don't want to hurt them.
I am a schizoid narcissist and everything you said is like you've known me since childhood.
I have been diagnosed with npd. paranoid pd. strong schizoid traits. Also body dysmorphic disorder, Maladaptive daydreaming. Been an utter recluse for most of my life. Never had a woman. I can't tolerate them. I just sit in my little room, reading my books and avoiding all human contact. A monk's life is not as bad as it seems.
Maladaptive daydreaming is nonsense hype, not a diagnosis.
The monastic neet life is the best life.
Sounds like me exactly
Brilliant, as always. This was the missing piece to puzzle. I was not able to understand why the narcissist used to say “I am fed up with people, i just want my space, leave me alone”.
Thank you for this explanation. I was with a Schizoid, somatic loner type and he was overly attached to his parents, family. To the point he worked his vacation around being back for Sunday dinner. He was 53. No friends at all, flat emotions, no response to criticism or anything. Avoidant to anything I might plan or ask him to go to. Had to be his idea. Really a bizarre experience. Had me so confused for over a year.
Holly i have stuck w. one for 8 years. OMG.....i see the end now......
He is still attached to his family-they are all dead. He has invisible "visitors" oookk
My schizoid is really attached to his 84 yr old elderly mother. She’s always priority. We often go hiking. He won’t hike areas that have no cell reception just in case mom tries to call. He’s allowed her phone calls to interrupt during sexual activities as well. I’ve also noticed his mother give him guilt trips when he isn’t on her beck and call.
@@mec.laurapalmer7155 He’s 50 yrs old
Hey. I have no friend, either. Maybe we should date LOL.
@@mec.laurapalmer7155 55!
I have been in therapy for years knowing I have some issues mainly in relationships. I was convinced I was a narcissist but didn't fit a lot of the stereotypical traits. When speaking with my therapist and the world schizoid came up I was a bit shocked but as I look more at it I see I do relate massively to this diagnosis too. I can seek narcissistic supply from time to time ( seek some attention or praise for something I have done ) but 99% of the time this is not the case. I live a very solitary lifestyle and tend to be " off in my head dissociating" a lot of the time. I do really want human connection though, I knew i was missing out on something in life but until recently at 38 years old after the breakdown of my 7 year relationship I didn't look too much inside myself unless forced to when we argued, why would I? My defenses were doing their job and i was maintaining a safe distance but this created a massive push pull.
So it seems that schizoids have a link to narcissism which makes sense. I really wish I was a normal person who could relate to others. I don't know fully how i ended up this way, I think my mum has borderline traits and my dad can be narcissistic and abuse, I also suffered abuse as a child. I am hoping with therapy I am now able to face these demons, but maybe I just feel this way because I'm not in or looking for an intimate relationship at the moment and when I do find myself In one I hope my old habits and traits don't resurface, currently I think it would be selfish of me to get into a relationship with someone as I know I can't give as much as a well rounded person. I really appreciate you videos, they have given me a lot of insight.
I thought i was getting better by removing toxic people from my life. Now I learn that I fit this schizoid model. Im just rejecting everyone because of my childhood trauma. What a blow to my hope of progress in my journey back to a healthy state. Is there a therapy for this or am i just doomed now to live my life shut off from the world in social isolation ? So sad is a mothers curse on a child. Its devastating.
I really value everything you say, I’m just learning in my 40s! Wish I had known personality disorders earlier in life. Our parents sure have a lot to do with who we are in life.
I never thought that I would find a possible explanation of my recent ex's behaviour that was utterly confusing ----- always anxious that I would abandon him, yet acting in such a way as to sabotage the relationship. He goes to lots of social events, which he then spends on his own ..wandering off to do his own thing, eating separately etc. Could not understand why I wanted distance after we broke up. Then immediately moved n to find someone else. Would never initiate sex and confessed that he never had
Awesome presentation! You have TOTALLY explained my partner of 13 months. Thank-you very much !
You just described the man I’ve been dating. The come here then go away you’re infringing on my time and space mixed signals . So incredibly confusing and leaves me constantly in limbo as to where we stand.He goes for days to weeks not reaching out after he’s told me he how much he likes me and wants to see me regularly.
Wow, amazing video and insights! I've never heard this explained anywhere. Thank you, Prof. Vaknin, for this ground-breaking video!
Prof Vaknin, can you make a separate video on paranoid and avoidant schizoid narcissist? Also, can there be an avoidant schizoitypal narcissist or schizoitypal schizoid narcissist? Also, have you come up with these types yourself or some literature you can point me to?
Thank you for your videos professor. They have been helpful in my Is peeling journey.
Okay, first I thought I might be schizoid narcissist but at the end of this lecture I realized I only have little traits. I have developed these during university when I needed and wanted to focus on understanding the world and human existence especially.
Thanks Sam this was very clear and helpful..my last partner was I think a Schizoid Narcissist and it is very helpful to hear the behaviours as it resonates more than the covert descriptions.
Damn... Explains why he would only have sex in a way he didn't have to face me. I always kind of suspected
That's what I found. Wasn't nesessarily that way in the beginning but it became more and more apparent. It depersonalisation of you
Very accurate description. I found had Compartmentalising emotional connections with people we’ve formed relationships with such changing characters/personalities need to watch and digest such content . Having yourself to be emotionally healthy, self aware to achieve this still takes some time to decipher and achieve. If you are not-don’t waste your own life continuously helping their needs. Easy test: are you seeing positive progress or just being told what you want to hear?
Oh my gosh. This is the first I’ve heard of Schizoid Disorder and Narcissism! This describes my ex perfectly. He sort of fits a Covert Narcissist in a lot of ways for sure.
Years ago a therapist I was seeing and talking about my ex and what he did, how he was, how he treated me and he gave me a printout on Schizoid Personality Disorder which I’d never heard of. Further research had me nodding my head at signs of SPD.
I’m mid-divorce with my ex stalling and blocking every attempt to complete. 2 years on and no end in sight. I had no hope of being loved or having a happy healthy marriage and was with him for 14 years.
I’ve got PTSD and ended up shattered with my physical, emotional, psychological and financial health destroyed.
My ex seemed to have no emotions, flat personality, no expressions of sadness or anger or joy. Like a dead rock. Nothing moved him. Zero empathy. I’d cry and he’d just look at me or walk out of the room. He never said sorry ever. Apathetic is a word you used. Absolutely!
Thank you for this video. I wish there was more material on this combination. If you can lead me to books or resources I’d be grateful.
I knew the overt Narcissist was not him. Certainly lots of Covert traits. Throw in Schizoid and it explains why I banged on giant emotional walls to get nothing. He couldn’t handle anything he saw as criticism even if it wasn’t. He lost so many jobs by refusing to be accountable.
Sex? Not long after marriage it only occurred if I initiated. No matter how much I invited it, praised him, built him up he stayed shut down. We ended up in a sexless marriage in the last few years but before marriage as you say it was frequent and exciting. You describe it as mechanical! Spot on. No matter what I asked or said about why he wouldn’t initiate sex he’d be silent. Yet as you say if I did now and then happy to “perform” but it became so rare.
I ended up trapped in the marriage due to serious illness and 5 surgeries leaving me housebound and dependent upon him. He hated this as I’d done so many things for him and our household for years. He was a lone Wolf totally but needed me to affirm things constantly. He had no friends, no close connections. Was alone and told me once he didn’t care about having friends. Didn’t miss anything. He even walked away from his 4 children and was not bothered. So cold.
He was also told he had Fearful Avoidant Attachment Disorder also. So a triple nightmare for me. I’ve very lucky to have found a new relationship with a man who is the opposite in every way and has helped me heal so much. I’m starting trauma therapy next week however as parts of me are still so damaged. I can’t express how stunned I am with this video. I wish more victims could know of this.
Very interesting and thank you for explaining this; I definitely do have some schizoid tendencies.
Sam do you know much about how habitual Cannabis use increases schizoid behavior or how it affects the brain in general? Thanks for your help.
There is no convincing conclusive evidence once way or the other. Many studies show that habitual cannabis consumption actually ENHANCES sociability and disinhibits.
@@samvaknin Thank you. It must be due to genetic and/or environmental circumstances in my case, which was my suspicion. Nevertheless I could do with a bit more self control and moderation.
My ex wife/narcissist was a much better person to be around when she was high on weed.
Hello. Thank you for your video. Is there more to this series? Do you have more videos with this diagnosis: schizoid, avoidant, narcissism personality disorder? My significant other was diagnosed with those three today from a diagnostic center - I’m confused and don’t understand much of it.
Has has it gone since this comment?
I contribute it to my essence and external factors
This is interesting. Schitzoid narcissist very closely resembles my ex. He was said he was mild autism but I’m not so sure. He matches schizoid more. He can logically see and understand social and emotional situations in movies and in others. He just doesn’t care. He’s highly intelligent and successful in his education and running his commercial construction business. He doesn’t seem to have much pleasure in anything or reaction to things. But is highly skilled and particular. However he is different when it comes to a romantic partner. He love bombed me like crazy and seemed more emotionally normal. As soon as we got married he shut me out completely. I just seemed like an irritant if I wants to interact with him. However he was happy to have me listen to him talk about politics or about how great he is at something. The idea that anyone has expectations on him literally makes him recoil, he admits this. He thinks he should be president of the United States because everyone else is stupid and things it would be easy to do so, (I’m not exaggerating) but doesn’t want to because it’s too much work. He seems indifferent to anyone’s feelings and compliments bother him. The only time it mattered is when a close/intimate partner (me) complained about his behavior. He would gas light me and change the story of what happened and would staunchly complain that no one understands him and everyone misjudges him. The only thing that doesn’t fit is that he loved having sex. It was actually the only time he really seemed truly attentive to me and genuinely connected.
The second we filed divorce he was back into dating again.
Could you talk about the bipolar convert narcissist please?
Ugh. Sounds like my stbx. Such mixed messages. He drives like a mix of schizoid and covert. For many years I thought his behaviors were due to combat injuries. Nope. The ptsd/tbi just took away his ability to create masks and get supply in groups.
My ex is a covert and schizoid he has a tbi and ptsd but I wonder if he was always a narcissist and the schizoid came after being in the marines, his mother said that he came back a different person
You have explained my ex spouse of 11 yrs so well I was almost sick. How on earth did you understand this let alone explain this? I'm on my way to becoming a counselor, how can I take your class?
Thank you
Oof, this kinda describes an anime recluse/NEET/hikikimori. The stereotypical negative example of an otaku. (Sorry for this example, I'm clearly an anime fan.)
Watch my vid about youth sexlessness.
@@samvaknin Thank you! I very much appreciate your work. 😁
If the schizoid narcissist is a sadisti too - well, he could easily be called a " Jack Pot"! I realy dearly pitty all who fall for that guy..
Tell that to my ex-gf.
Does the schizoid narcissist just withdraws and disappears without "fighting" the break up an never comes back?
Ghosting is common.
40:40 holy hell this is true
33:15 I feel too familiar with the scanning described here.
Which video is the second one?
@Phyllis Gabor Hey there, I managed to find the second and third video.
2nd: ua-cam.com/video/YjYH5d-bB2I/v-deo.html
3rd: ua-cam.com/video/yzYq6HvL9eM/v-deo.html
Good day to you sir :)
Hello, does the schizoid use the technic of reverse discard? Seems my ex kept devaluing me by wanting to be friends instead of intimate partners. Also he had a strange stare at times. Really hard to know what to feel/do in this situation because I cared about him.
Schizoids avoid and withdraw, they don't discard.
But what about schizoid narcissist? Isn’t that a combination that could discard?
Prof. Vaknin could the Schizoid Narcissist also be a psychopath (primary or secondary)?
This is my new suggested diagnosis: covert borderline.
Dr Ramani called this type of narcissist neglectful narcissistic and pointed out that this type will often present psyzoid traits
Dear Sam, what kind of personality disorders match good together for love, partnership?
None. Personality disordered patients are horrible never-intimate partners.
@@samvaknin totally true.
@@samvaknin Thanks for the Hope!
personality disorders aren't astrological signs lol
@@amndbloom and this is not astrology channel 🤣
?????Can someone be a Somatic Schizoid Narcissist? I think this is what my ex could have been. He was an extremely complicated individual and displayed a wide array of maladaptive coping styles which I now can positively confirm as narcissistic behaviors. I am simply curious if this is possible.
I believe in this video he does mention the existence of a somatic schizoid narcissist. Somewhere in the sex and sexuality chapter, if I recall correctly.
Are they dissociative in either the come hither or the go away state?
Dissociation is a constant, trauma-induced feature in narcissism and borderline.
My personal experience is they love you and want you at 7am then by 7pm they changed thier minds, rinse and repeat. Screws with your head. Run in the opposite direction to someone who doesn't play emotionally immature mind game's
damn... got me thinking im a schizoid narcissist now doc. How would i find out?
The good news: He will pack up his things and disapear!
My partner became schizotypal on stimulant Elvanse (he used for 10month), spent all his Christmas time (2weeks) in his little room sorting out legos for 3/4 hours a day f.example. After few weeks what he started with this medication, he became obssesed with taking things apart (computers, printers, other electronics stuff), isolating himself very much (it was also the time when his problem started to be more obvious for him and me as NPD, so Im not sure there was also narcissistic injury going on in the same time). Wondering if the medication can bring such a change in personality, diagnosed for Adhd 15years ago, but he is in a process of evaluation for personality disorder Cluster B, in my opinion NPD. It could be interesting how stimulants may affect personality disorders Cluster B, because his behavior was very strange as I said very schizotypal. He was also more violent as usual, hostile. Very bad experience. His doctor didnt take his behavioural change as serious, too. I talked to the psychiatric emergency and they said that they never heard about anything like that. It just makes me wonder and would like to know your opinion, thanks.
So it made him more creative?
Очень круто
I associate your description of the avoidant schizoid narcassist type more with autistic burnout
Nothing to do with autism. Re-watch.
Dear Sam, is it possible to be a covert narcissist or have primary covert characteristics (negative emotional outbursts, envy and very easily offended)with schizoid features (aloofness and callousness especially toward the general public/strangers/casual acquaintances, experiencing existential angst and crisis(typical of the schizoid framework), lacking of friends or interest in social supply beyond from romantic partner and close family members?
Many coverts are schizoid or avoidant.
@@samvakninthank you sincerely for your quick response!
Please speak about trump narcissistic actions these days
It’s the time we need to understand from psychology prospect
Thanks
FFS. When will the Trump Derangement Syndrome ever cease?