Ground and neutral work the same way. They are used to complete the circuit by providing a returning path to source. The ground is the emergency path to return to source. It's normally not carrying electricity so it allows the return to happen so fast that it can create a strong enough magnetic field to trip the breaker. When you bond the ground and neutral before the first disconnect or main breaker, you'll never create a strong enough magnetic field to trip it.
So quick question boss. A lot of new installs are asking for this type of disconnect.When you do this do we take off the bonding bar between neutral and ground in the main since it’s not the first means of disconnect anymore ?
I got a free estimate to move my meter from the basement to outside and install a main disconnect outside with it. It was going to cost much more than I was expecting. I ended up doing the project myself, and it was a fabulous experience learning how to do this kind of stuff properly beyond just outlets, lights, and switches. And yes at a fraction of the cost
I am as well. @@eddyparker10 I think you'd find great value in reading 'Wiring Simplified'. That book in combination with the power company's specs and a lot of UA-cam videos has given me the confidence to tackle the upgrade by myself. I'm probably going to start next week with the actually installation. Good luck!
The most important thing you said was "Take care of the Next Guy!" I am a retired commercial electrician in Florida and I have seen too much work that in my mind did not come close to being done in a workmanship like manner! Thanks!
You said that 'the free thing can become devalued'. You're half right. There have been studies done that prove that people place absolutely NO value on free things. Thank you for taking the time to produce these videos.
This is the kind of content that really gives me hope for a future workforce that has both technical skills and a positive and professional understanding of the complexities of interaction with regulators and customers. Kids who might not sign up for classes in the trades can see a great deal here that would attract them to take that next step to move into a good trade. Thanks for some great content.
Man, your explanation of the ground/common bonding at the disconnect vs load center was exactly what I was hunting for. Thank you so much. This video is gold for a residential setup.
I was so happy to hear you say "next time buy a Fluke." While Kleins DMM may be good enough, the serviceability of Fluke DMMs is second to none! TSA would regularly break the screen on my Flukes but I could buy a replacement straight from Fluke for like $12. Pop off the outer case and pop in the new screen in 5 minutes.
I love the lock box idea for inspectors . I have spent an unbelievable amount of time this week just sitting around waiting for Baltimore city inspectors!
I worked with a lineman upgrading a house to 200 amp service. He used normal garden loppers to cut the cables. worked like a charm and a lot cheaper than ratcheting cutters.
@@ElectricProAcademy I use a pair of Southwire loppers I got from Menards. Chops up to 4/0 aluminum or 3/0 copper with ease. Not very big either, just the one handed version. I would advise against using a sawzall, risk of kickback if gets snagged on the wire, and just more mess , metal shavings etc.
Enjoying your videos. Recently retired Indianapolis Master's Electrical Engineer (not a licensed electrician) that has also had my Indy General Contactor license (15 years ago), a remodeling business and have been doing Electrical wiring for 40+ years but never pulled a meter nor replaced a main panel. I have run a subpage for hvac. I'm passionate about learning and get great fulfillment in doing things professionally myself. Now that I'm retired I have spent 40 hours last few weeks reviewing NEC 2020 and 2008 for Indy; Indy Electrical codes and permitting. Been evaluating Electrical equipment reviews, pricing equipment etc. Spent a lot of time watching Mike Holt training videos before I came across you. After reviewing all that I could find it came down to Siemens and Square D QO series panels. I like the 60 position QO Square D panel best. I like the idea of adding this disconnect to give me more flexibility when I add a 24KV Generac. I'll happily pay your fee to discuss my project and get your advice. My first preference would be to hire a Master Electrician that would let me participate in the panel change out project. But I am also open to a fair bid. I'll reach out to you to see if we can meet for a fee, no freebie. I have done my homework and prepared a scope of work. This is a 1998 4000 Sq ft home on Indy NE side with 35 breakers with many doubled up. Our new home is our forever home and I want to junk the Thomas Butts panel and upgrade to QO Square D while adding a basement QO subpanel for my basement shop. Later this year I plan to add a 24KV Generac. Hope you are interested in discussing my project. I love your videos and that you have local Indianapolis experience with AES/IPL. Tom T in The Moorings 96th & Mud Creek 46256
If it's a commercial site I would use a QO panel. For a residential I would use a Square D Homeline with the plug on neutral. You will save some money and I never seen a problem with a Homeline panel. Square D panels also has the convenient plug in surge breaker. Install it in the 1st position next to the main breaker. Then I would use all GFCI/AFCI combo breakers on every circuit that will have an outlet.
Second on using the Homeline instead of the QO. The breakers are slightly wider but the connections are better. That’s if you are set on a Square D panel. Leviton makes a very nice panel now where the wires are permanently landed on a bar and breakers can be snapped in and out without having the undo wires. And can be upgraded to a smart panel easily.
When you removed the ground conductors that were previously tightened,torqued, down, you should clip the ends. The indents on the copper are work hardened and the first place where micro cracks start. Reinserting and retightening on these spots leads to larger cracks and can cause total failure the next time those wires are moved, for appearance, maintenance or add-ons.
I am glad to see you use a torque wrench. Inspectors in the cities around (Volusia Co in Florida) started years ago insisting on verifying the torques so I have been torquing with an Snap-On lbs/in torque wrench and a ft-lbs torque wrench and used a magic marker to write the torque it was tightened to on the interior box walls and I also took a picture of the torque wrench dial as I tightened.
This is a favorite UA-cam channel of mine. Thank you for taking the time to produce quality videos, good work practice, and good business tips. Thank you.
I love your videos. I work from home and I put your video up on the big screen and let them play while I work. I was an electrician as a young man so I live vicariously through your work.
although i just recently i started watching your videos, one things is for sure, the content is very good and also it has helped me to understand some stuff that i was in doubt THANK YOU ....
Your explanations are first class as well as completeness of the job. When I had my solar array installed the electrician was not present when inspector showed up. End result was a red flag that the solar company wanted me to pay for. Needless to say never used them again and they shortly went out of business.
some of the best practical advice I've seen, it's the little things like" best practice" techiques (like always have a tube of goo) that make a job move smoothly .
I use that same belt. 50 bucks for the pouch 30 bucks for the belt. Ad a few decent pouches and you're golden. People are buying that diamond back pouch for like 150 bucks and it's not even set up right lol. Good deal. Thanks for the video
A good practice is to back the lug screws out, put antioxidant on the threads, then reinstall them. They’ll tighten much easier and years later you can back them out no problem.
I don't know how you put up with all the complaining, ungrateful comments! I think you did a great job and it seems that people will always find something to complain about. Thanks for your excellent video!
Really I'm so satisfied seeing you doing the job and giving clear and precise explanations for it. Also, although you made some safety faults, you were aware of them and criticize yourself letting to know that the idea is to save time when it is possible without giving the quality up. Thumbs up to you.👍👌🥇I'm home inspector and this content gave me some lights about not common things the inspectors do about the electrical installation of a house especially at the time to bring the final report to the potential buyer. Thanks.
I enjoy watching your content. If I was not close to retirement I would recommend going into some kind of Trade like becoming an Electrician. I really think just my take on it is to first when one graduates is to get some form of Trade then decide if you want to go further than working in a trade. I have great respect for those in the trades. If I had to do it again I would become a licensed Electrician then gone into Telecom. I find both of these interesting, but I am about 4 years then I retire from the IT Industry, so this is just something I would recommend is all as a path for anyone going into and what an option is for kids these days. I just think it gives one more options. I just think having a trad and some kind of higher education is a good option as well. I will be 64 in about 4 years. I find the information very valuable though I do some of my electrical in the way that I do the running of the lines, and will connect things up. I will once it is done have someone who is licensed come and verify things as I do not trust everything I have done.
Commercial and industrial electrician here. You should really stop that tighten loosen bullshit… especially with aluminum conductors. That wire is not rated or meant to be re-terminated. It’s a one and done thing. You wiggle as you tighten but once you hit the spec and hear the click, that’s it. I usually give it a stern wiggle after the click and then make it click once more. If you ever un land said conductors, you’re supposed to cut and restrip to ensure a proper termination. That’s why you leave service slack. I couldn’t find the code section but will add it when I do. That’s how I was taught and what’s taught in school and through my mike holt continued education I’m doing. That’s why this jumped out at me because I just went through a section in my book about re-terminating wires like that. If an inspector wants to check torque they have to go down a certain amount. By that I mean if you’re torqued to 225”lbs they have to come down a set number of inch pounds to check that torque. I’m also not sure that pvc at ankle height would fly in my area and even if it did, it’s bad practice. Would’ve liked to see IMC there so when the landscapers come with their equipment and bang into it, it doesn’t blow the shit up.
Why were the nuetral and grounds in the same bar in the sub panel? Did the loss of the bonding screw require the move of the ground wires to the new dedicated bar? Could you separate ground and neutral bonds with a bonding screw ?
Can’t add much to what’s already been said, but you can see how his process is elevated to that of an artist. Basic processes for install is what most know, but all the nuances of his process shows how his experience takes his work to that of an artist.
@@ElectricProAcademy You could do both, a lot of popular channels here like Rainman Ray's, South Main Auto etc, have both really short videos and long in depth ones whenever the subject or topic requires it. Keeps everyone happy. Most of the time. :) Can't please everyone all of the time, but it's easier to piss off most of the people most of the time... LOL
Good idea keeping the level on the box through the whole install. For whatever reason, we all know you can have that thing plumb and level the entire time, then the last dang screw that gets tightened throws the whole thing out of whack.
As a water utility employee. I wish they would not allow grounding to the water or gas lines. When something goes wrong we get to see and feel the jolt. When we remove a water meter and sparks fly, that is no good. We should all work together to keep all utilities separated.
Gas should have an insulating union at the riser. The gas company uses a low dc voltage for impressed current Catholic Protection on steel gas lines. Never ground or bond before the meter. All bonding should happen on the fuel line after the meter. If you see a yellow wire near the gas riser do not connect anything to that.
The water/gas lines are not being grounded -they are bonded to the grounding system. Bonding means that there is an continuous path to the main panel (continuity). All metal piping systems that are likely to become energized needs to be bonded to the grounding system. This is to ensure that if a fault occurs, the current will find it's way back to the panel and trip the breaker. If you are being shocked by metal water/gas piping, it is likely there is not continuity (correctly bonded) to the grounding system.... Proper electrical systems are designed to fail safely.
but dude, without bonding, should a wire become loose and energize the water or gas line, you will get lit up either way... proper bonding is supposed to prevent that
Better practise: * There are 1000V rated rubber sheets with magnets in the corners, that can be used to safely cover live terminals. Those are quite handy and better than a pice of box, you could use such eqipment to cover the live meter terminals. * There are safety goggles with protection against arcs. Also I would recommend an arc proof jacket. It's not overly expensive, cheaper than a skin reconstruction surgery. God knows whats the inner resistance of the supply line, in case of a mishap you don't want to go blind and loose lots of skin. * Doing safety insolation precedures using a proper (for example Fluke T+Pro, Beha-Amprobe 2100, etc.) electrical tester is always a good idea, even if it looks like it's separated. You never know if there is an old hidden bypass to steal electricity that's well enough hidden to be missed. You never know. You test. * Adding that switch was the perfect opportunity to also add surge protection at the entrypoint, where it's most effective. A combined SPD Type 1+2 would be perfect there and never a waste of money with all those open-air supply cables, in my opinion. * Seemingly bonding between PE and Neutral was done via the casing of the box. Instead using a separate conductor would be better, since I have doubts about the capability of the box to handle any stronger surges and keep electric corrosion away from structural parts. Always offer a better low ohms path to stray currents on PE otherweise they will corrode your structural screws over the years like hell. * Using insolated tools is always a good idea. * I would use quite a bit more Aluminum anti-ox grease for additional anti-moisture coating, that pays off a lot on the long term. Capilary effects on stranded wires tend to pull moisture. * This kind of work justifies making a full round of measurements (Lo ohm PE test, grid inner resistance Zi, loop Zs, Riso) to make sure there are no surprises on the cables hidden in those PVC pipes that are not visible to regular continuity / resistance tests.
Great video. I am in complete agreement on the value of the paid estimate. Nothing more valuable than your time and experience. Not an electrician but I work for myself and am in the service industry. I usually request for a consultation fee that is credited to the project if they use me for the project. Question: why did you/he install a new ground terminal strip for the ground?; Transferring the existing ground over to it.
Wow you actually used the nolox properly on the aluminum there by using your plumbers wire brush pipe (wire) cleaner to add the nolox on. Nicely done someone read the directions lol
great video, glad I found your channel. In regards to a one-handed cutting tool, the compact bandsaws from both milwuakee and Dewalt are great for cutting feeders!
I agree with your perspective on charging for an estimate. I am willing to pay for such a valuable service especially when I do some research and I am prepared to engage in a serious dialogue.
What I said to the electrician who put on our outdoor cut-off switch, "isn't this how most slasher movies start?" We formerly had an inside cut-off. And, I've recently become aware of torque screw drivers, which probably should be used on smaller wiring connections. If I were an electrician, I'd consider investing in one. They are expensive.
You can designate the outdoor disconnect as an emergency disconnect and leave the main bonding jumper in the indoor panel at the service disconnect nec 230-85
Prior to the 2020 requirement for an outdoor disconnect for emergency personnel, it was common to have one if the interior panel was installed more than a few feet away from the meter, depending on the AHJ some may specify as little as 2 to 3 foot, others maybe 6 to 8 foot. My understanding is because service conductors normally do not have overload or short circuit protection other than the primary fuse on the utility transformer, which is sized to protect the transformer and not the drop, and if the cable were damaged such as by a nail or screw on the line side of the main breaker, the conductors would be incinerated, the house likely will be on fire, and there's no way for the homeowner or firefighters to shut off the power. If lucky the primary fuse will blow or the drop melts and cuts power. And certain parts of the country have long required an outdoor disconnect anyway.
@@ElectricProAcademy I agree. I will say, the code is intentionally vague on this as it (as you know) states "...or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors." If an inspector dings you for 16" in this case his a prick, plain and simple.
I understand that some of the new electronic meters will disconnect current if it exceeds the current capacity of the meter , I know many already have remote disconnect
For the installations you describe where the service conductors traverse portions of the interior of the house, typically the requirement has been that these conductors be installed in EMT, IMC, or RMC. At that point the fire and shock potential is limited significantly.
@not tellin no, for first responders to fires. For their safety and to aid in the extinguishing of electrical fires. Not everything in life is a conspiracy.
@@steveloux4709 I guess to be fair, not everyone understands that because electrical fires didn’t just start in 2020 just like the code also updated requirements for surge protection in newer builds or upgrades. You would think the safety would’ve been around a lot sooner than 2020.
You just Violated NFPA-70E PPE category one Requires PPE single rated arc rated clothing, Face and head protection needed for arc Flash Also require clothing
That SER must have been really fun pulling through that lb rather than using individual conductors. And one rule I learned is always have more than one meter in my vehicle.
2023 you have to label your main disconnect “Emergency Disconnect, Service Disconnect” on the outside of the box, white letters on a red background with the letters at least 1/2” tall
Good video. But I"m trying to figure out, why didn't you land the EGC from the outside main disconnect box onto the new grounding bar that you added to the interior panel. If you left it connected to the neutral busbar on the left side, wouldn't that be a ground fault?
Thanks for the video. So I understand that the ground in the new first disconnect you installed is an earth ground and an equipment ground via the subpanel, and that the neutral and ground in the disconnect are coupled via the green ground screw at the neutral. As to the subpanel, neutral and ground are no longer bonded, and the earth ground and equipment ground are coupled together and fed via the single ground to the new first disconnect. This arrangement appears to be not in strict compliance with the code because the earthand equipment ground are coupled in the subpanel. Am I missing something?
I have a fluke and a small southwire tester that dose not require battery to work just in case. Been there on the roof of a college going to test a 480 volts ac disconnect to start taking it apart when the battery’s crap out on me. I feel you.
Nice job.. And in future it will come down to ….”do you own a properly calibrated torque wrench… “ NEC 110.22 would require an identification of Disconnecting Means the label should be of sufficient durability for the external environment as well. The question is should it go on the inside or outside? I would prefer to have both have a larger external label and smaller label internally as you did. That way it’s way more evident and noticeable even in the dark say for an emergency responder. I have had firemen come out and look at my external disconnects I have two of them that extra step in labeling is greatly appreciated. Yes fluke way better or at least another solid make and better to have a great voltmeter for providing dead and continuity with a proving unit. In my estimation still too many US electricians over estimate their abilities in working live. Experienced electricians are just as human as younger apprentices. Always work de-energized and prove its de-energized before starting work….
The round plastic meter cover on my panel is very oxidized and I can no longer read the numbers on the meter. Is that something that requires the replacement of the whole meter or can just the cover be replaced?
The circuit between your new service disconnect and you’re now subpanel inside is a feeder. Feeders are required to have equipment grounding conductors 215.6 sized based on 250.122. Not 250.66. 250.66 is for a grounding electrode conductor. A grounding electrode conductor would be required either in or before a service disconnect separately from the requirement for the equipment grounding conductor on the feeder. 250.24(A)(1).
That opening statement is WILD to me. Here in NY the inspectors won’t even get out of their car if you aren’t there lol on everything I’ve worked on between residential and small commercial that’s been the case
I can relate to what you are talking concerning Inspectors but from the other side. I was the Fire Marshal for our city before I retired and had to contend with everything you discussed but from the enforcement side.
@@ElectricProAcademy I watch your channel because I love learning from professionals that are dedicated to doing the job right. I found out a long time ago it is cheaper to do the job right the first time rather than trying to cut corners to save money and end up having to go back and do it right the second time. I have a lot of respect for what you are doing.
If i am installing a manual 200 amp double throw swich in the place of your application it does not a a breaker so would it still be the only place i bond my neutral and ground
I’m doing this in my home now. I’m installing a non fused 200amp safety switch in between my meter and ATS for my generator. Are the neutrals and grounds shared here since it is the first means of disconnect?
The civil suit concluded on “do you own a torque wrench?” is a fascinating addition. That's the sort of surprisingly useful factoid that people who know me well expect to hear from me. :+ ) It's also fascinating that the utility there allows self certification of work in the meter enclosure; that is very American.
The first panel, is the panel after the service disconnect. What makes a panel the "service disconnect"? A sticker (and one switch, or one breaker). So, with a "service disconnect" sticker, the house panel, can remain unchanged because the service disconnect is part of the service entrance equipment. You do not put the "main" sticker, on the service disconnect, because it is now part of the service entrance equipment. The original main, is still the main. Putting the main sticker on the service disconnect, more then doubled your work. I was a former contractor for ABB.
Joel, I'm assuming the GEC's were relocated to the subpanel ground bar per 250.121(A). Again per 250.121(A), Use of Equipment Grounding Conductors. An equipment grounding conductor shall not be used as a grounding electrode conductor. Exception: A wire-type equipment grounding conductor installed in compliance with 250.6(A) and the applicable requirements for both the equipment grounding conductor and the grounding electrode conductor in Parts II, III, and VI of this article shall be permitted to serve as both an equipment grounding conductor and a grounding electrode conductor. Using the EGC as a GEC, 250.24(A)(1) must be followed. 250.24(A)(1): "(1) General. The grounding electrode conductor connection shall be made at any accessible point from the load end of the overhead service conductors, service drop, underground service conductors, or service lateral to, including the terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is connected at the service disconnecting means." That being said, the EGC/GEC should be connected at the neutal terminal. 250.24(A)(4) Permits a wire jumper sized as a MBJ from the neutral terminal to the EGC bar or terminal. (Neutral bar/terminal extensions shall not rely on just the metal enclosure.) Just some thoughts...
@@ElectricProAcademy Thanks for taking the time to peruse through the references I provided. Your bottom line summation is to the point, and I guess I could have just stated it that way. But, providing references takes the subjective out of the equation. While 250.121(A) is possibly a little obscure, it also is useful when optional standby generator additions are installed with service rated ATS. The existing MB panel, converted to a subpanel, could save relocating the existing GEC's to the new ATS. I'm glad to help out your channel.
Great video. Question. On the inside panel, after separating the grounds from neutrals, do you need to move the large ground connector / external earth ground to the newly installed ground bar? Leaving it bounded to the cabinet requires the individual grounds to bond through the cabinet before getting to the earth ground. Thank you.
Hey Joel! Great videos!! Question Re: External/Emergency House Disconnect I have a single-breaker, whole house, external, emergency disconnect box on my home. Subsequently, my first, downstream, load center, inside my garage, is actually a sub panel. If I want to add a generator inlet box/breaker, can I add it - with a properly installed interlock kit - in that first load center (subpanel); OR do I need to look at possibly altering the emergency disconnect box to accommodate the add of the breaker for the generator inlet in the outside disconnect box??? Sorry for the length! I THOUGHT it was a short question!
Nice video good content I like that you point out ever little thing goes right and wrong Like nicks on insulation or missed step labeling wires white tape
I'd include a 4 1/2 DeWalt angle grinder with a 4 1/2 metal cutting blade in your tool kit. It will cut the wires in a much more controlled way and nice clean cuts.
So, the connection between the incoming neutral and local earthing system is via the main isolator cabinet body. This would not be permitted in Australia. And likely, the existing neutral/earth link you had on the ‘old’ main switchboard would have remained as the ‘MEN Link’ as the Australian/New Zealand Wiring Rules (AS/NZS 3000) require. It is interesting to me as a professional electrical engineer how different jurisdictions solve the same problems. 😀
I believe the US NEC states that the neutral and earth ground bond must be made at the point of first disconnect. This ensures that that location is the same and only location that voltage potential on the neutral will be sent to ground, whether that potential originates on the the utility side or the customer side. I'm curious what the Australian code says, and the reason they give for still having it at the main panel. I'm always curious what other code books say and the reason they have for it.
I am an electrical engineer in the US and the grounding system is a fail. He calls it a technical point but it's code 101. Grounding happens at the first means of disconnect,
Ground and neutral work the same way. They are used to complete the circuit by providing a returning path to source. The ground is the emergency path to return to source. It's normally not carrying electricity so it allows the return to happen so fast that it can create a strong enough magnetic field to trip the breaker. When you bond the ground and neutral before the first disconnect or main breaker, you'll never create a strong enough magnetic field to trip it.
So quick question boss. A lot of new installs are asking for this type of disconnect.When you do this do we take off the bonding bar between neutral and ground in the main since it’s not the first means of disconnect anymore ?
@Art12453 yep, you will have to separate the neutral from the ground from the now sub panel.
The sirens in the background right as you cut the tag off was perfect. 😂
I got a free estimate to move my meter from the basement to outside and install a main disconnect outside with it. It was going to cost much more than I was expecting. I ended up doing the project myself, and it was a fabulous experience learning how to do this kind of stuff properly beyond just outlets, lights, and switches. And yes at a fraction of the cost
I am trying to upgrade my breaker panel to 200 amps. Thats my next big project in the next 4 months.
I am as well. @@eddyparker10 I think you'd find great value in reading 'Wiring Simplified'. That book in combination with the power company's specs and a lot of UA-cam videos has given me the confidence to tackle the upgrade by myself. I'm probably going to start next week with the actually installation. Good luck!
The most important thing you said was "Take care of the Next Guy!" I am a retired commercial electrician in Florida and I have seen too much work that in my mind did not come close to being done in a workmanship like manner! Thanks!
You said that 'the free thing can become devalued'. You're half right. There have been studies done that prove that people place absolutely NO value on free things.
Thank you for taking the time to produce these videos.
This is the kind of content that really gives me hope for a future workforce that has both technical skills and a positive and professional understanding of the complexities of interaction with regulators and customers. Kids who might not sign up for classes in the trades can see a great deal here that would attract them to take that next step to move into a good trade. Thanks for some great content.
Nah trades suck ass and not worth it. Find any other career than a trade job! These don’t pay shit!
Don’t hold your breath
I hate to say it, but@@dialac1is right...
Excersise caution as he uses a sawsall inches fom 240 V death lol.
Man, your explanation of the ground/common bonding at the disconnect vs load center was exactly what I was hunting for. Thank you so much. This video is gold for a residential setup.
I was so happy to hear you say "next time buy a Fluke." While Kleins DMM may be good enough, the serviceability of Fluke DMMs is second to none! TSA would regularly break the screen on my Flukes but I could buy a replacement straight from Fluke for like $12. Pop off the outer case and pop in the new screen in 5 minutes.
I love the lock box idea for inspectors . I have spent an unbelievable amount of time this week just sitting around waiting for Baltimore city inspectors!
Dude! What a well-made video with such an intelligent, lucid narration. I learned a few things for sure 👏🏼💪🏼
HAHA 😄You clip the tamper seal @ 3:10 and we hear instant sirens in the background... Perfect timing! 😎👍
I worked with a lineman upgrading a house to 200 amp service. He used normal garden loppers to cut the cables. worked like a charm and a lot cheaper than ratcheting cutters.
@@ElectricProAcademy I use a pair of Southwire loppers I got from Menards. Chops up to 4/0 aluminum or 3/0 copper with ease. Not very big either, just the one handed version. I would advise against using a sawzall, risk of kickback if gets snagged on the wire, and just more mess , metal shavings etc.
Harbor Freight sells a cutter fairly cheap.
Enjoying your videos. Recently retired Indianapolis Master's Electrical Engineer (not a licensed electrician) that has also had my Indy General Contactor license (15 years ago), a remodeling business and have been doing Electrical wiring for 40+ years but never pulled a meter nor replaced a main panel. I have run a subpage for hvac.
I'm passionate about learning and get great fulfillment in doing things professionally myself. Now that I'm retired I have spent 40 hours last few weeks reviewing NEC 2020 and 2008 for Indy; Indy Electrical codes and permitting. Been evaluating Electrical equipment reviews, pricing equipment etc.
Spent a lot of time watching Mike Holt training videos before I came across you.
After reviewing all that I could find it came down to Siemens and Square D QO series panels. I like the 60 position QO Square D panel best.
I like the idea of adding this disconnect to give me more flexibility when I add a 24KV Generac.
I'll happily pay your fee to discuss my project and get your advice.
My first preference would be to hire a Master Electrician that would let me participate in the panel change out project. But I am also open to a fair bid.
I'll reach out to you to see if we can meet for a fee, no freebie. I have done my homework and prepared a scope of work.
This is a 1998 4000 Sq ft home on Indy NE side with 35 breakers with many doubled up. Our new home is our forever home and I want to junk the Thomas Butts panel and upgrade to QO Square D while adding a basement QO subpanel for my basement shop. Later this year I plan to add a 24KV Generac.
Hope you are interested in discussing my project.
I love your videos and that you have local Indianapolis experience with AES/IPL.
Tom T in The Moorings 96th & Mud Creek 46256
I love that you are a faith based company.
That's like saying you have a pilot's license but not a drivers.
If it's a commercial site I would use a QO panel. For a residential I would use a Square D Homeline with the plug on neutral. You will save some money and I never seen a problem with a Homeline panel. Square D panels also has the convenient plug in surge breaker. Install it in the 1st position next to the main breaker. Then I would use all GFCI/AFCI combo breakers on every circuit that will have an outlet.
If only every customer was like this 🤣
Second on using the Homeline instead of the QO. The breakers are slightly wider but the connections are better.
That’s if you are set on a Square D panel.
Leviton makes a very nice panel now where the wires are permanently landed on a bar and breakers can be snapped in and out without having the undo wires. And can be upgraded to a smart panel easily.
When you removed the ground conductors that were previously tightened,torqued, down, you should clip the ends. The indents on the copper are work hardened and the first place where micro cracks start. Reinserting and retightening on these spots leads to larger cracks and can cause total failure the next time those wires are moved, for appearance, maintenance or add-ons.
Wow, not only picking up tips and tricks. I'm learning business concepts from you. Greatly appreciated!!!
I am glad to see you use a torque wrench. Inspectors in the cities around (Volusia Co in Florida) started years ago insisting on verifying the torques so I have been torquing with an Snap-On lbs/in torque wrench and a ft-lbs torque wrench and used a magic marker to write the torque it was tightened to on the interior box walls and I also took a picture of the torque wrench dial as I tightened.
This is a favorite UA-cam channel of mine. Thank you for taking the time to produce quality videos, good work practice, and good business tips. Thank you.
I love your videos. I work from home and I put your video up on the big screen and let them play while I work. I was an electrician as a young man so I live vicariously through your work.
although i just recently i started watching your videos, one things is for sure, the content is very good and also it has helped me to understand some stuff that i was in doubt THANK YOU ....
Your explanations are first class as well as completeness of the job. When I had my solar array installed the electrician was not present when inspector showed up. End result was a red flag that the solar company wanted me to pay for. Needless to say never used them again and they shortly went out of business.
Sorry to hear it! Thanks for the kind words
some of the best practical advice I've seen, it's the little things like" best practice" techiques (like always have a tube of goo) that make a job move smoothly .
I appreciate the effort you put into this video and the tips from your years of experience doing this type of work. Thank you!
I'm stickin' with Joel,, He makes it easy as a pro
I use that same belt. 50 bucks for the pouch 30 bucks for the belt. Ad a few decent pouches and you're golden. People are buying that diamond back pouch for like 150 bucks and it's not even set up right lol. Good deal. Thanks for the video
A good practice is to back the lug screws out, put antioxidant on the threads, then reinstall them. They’ll tighten much easier and years later you can back them out no problem.
I don't know how you put up with all the complaining, ungrateful comments! I think you did a great job and it seems that people will always find something to complain about. Thanks for your excellent video!
Great video and explanation of everything. One note is there is no need for the NoLox anymore unless called for by the manufacturer.
Much more detail than I was originally looking for, but very much appreciated. Thanks for a great vid.
Really I'm so satisfied seeing you doing the job and giving clear and precise explanations for it. Also, although you made some safety faults, you were aware of them and criticize yourself letting to know that the idea is to save time when it is possible without giving the quality up. Thumbs up to you.👍👌🥇I'm home inspector and this content gave me some lights about not common things the inspectors do about the electrical installation of a house especially at the time to bring the final report to the potential buyer. Thanks.
I enjoy watching your content. If I was not close to retirement I would recommend going into some kind of Trade like becoming an Electrician. I really think just my take on it is to first when one graduates is to get some form of Trade then decide if you want to go further than working in a trade. I have great respect for those in the trades. If I had to do it again I would become a licensed Electrician then gone into Telecom. I find both of these interesting, but I am about 4 years then I retire from the IT Industry, so this is just something I would recommend is all as a path for anyone going into and what an option is for kids these days. I just think it gives one more options. I just think having a trad and some kind of higher education is a good option as well. I will be 64 in about 4 years. I find the information very valuable though I do some of my electrical in the way that I do the running of the lines, and will connect things up. I will once it is done have someone who is licensed come and verify things as I do not trust everything I have done.
As an apprentice, im glad to have found this channel.
Great video. I charge a Call Out Fee AKA estimate. Which intern covers my overhead like Insurance my time my vehicle, gas and knowledge
Commercial and industrial electrician here. You should really stop that tighten loosen bullshit… especially with aluminum conductors. That wire is not rated or meant to be re-terminated. It’s a one and done thing. You wiggle as you tighten but once you hit the spec and hear the click, that’s it. I usually give it a stern wiggle after the click and then make it click once more. If you ever un land said conductors, you’re supposed to cut and restrip to ensure a proper termination. That’s why you leave service slack. I couldn’t find the code section but will add it when I do. That’s how I was taught and what’s taught in school and through my mike holt continued education I’m doing. That’s why this jumped out at me because I just went through a section in my book about re-terminating wires like that. If an inspector wants to check torque they have to go down a certain amount. By that I mean if you’re torqued to 225”lbs they have to come down a set number of inch pounds to check that torque. I’m also not sure that pvc at ankle height would fly in my area and even if it did, it’s bad practice. Would’ve liked to see IMC there so when the landscapers come with their equipment and bang into it, it doesn’t blow the shit up.
Why were the nuetral and grounds in the same bar in the sub panel? Did the loss of the bonding screw require the move of the ground wires to the new dedicated bar?
Could you separate ground and neutral bonds with a bonding screw ?
If a electrician is fired and fails to get rehired they will be hired as a inspector and get revenge in most cases.
Those that can't do the job... end up as teachers or inspectors.
@@briansmyla8696you do realize that you just insulted every teacher you’ve ever had.
The GEC is required to be unbroken from the rod to the first disconnect. You can use an un-reversable (crimping) connector.
Love your videos! Great job explaining the trade and the business side of things.
I love how thorough you are, and your attention to detail.
Can’t add much to what’s already been said, but you can see how his process is elevated to that of an artist. Basic processes for install is what most know, but all the nuances of his process shows how his experience takes his work to that of an artist.
New here and holy smokes your videos are long and filled end to end with small tips and nuance. Please keep doing this!
@@ElectricProAcademy You could do both, a lot of popular channels here like Rainman Ray's, South Main Auto etc, have both really short videos and long in depth ones whenever the subject or topic requires it. Keeps everyone happy. Most of the time. :) Can't please everyone all of the time, but it's easier to piss off most of the people most of the time... LOL
The timing of when you cut the tag (3:10) and a siren went off in the background. 😂😂😂
Good idea keeping the level on the box through the whole install. For whatever reason, we all know you can have that thing plumb and level the entire time, then the last dang screw that gets tightened throws the whole thing out of whack.
The wrapping around s e r, sec , inside conductors before the outer sheath, is a rodent protectant material wrap
Excellent video. Thank you so much! Thanks for pointing out the Torque Wrench information, and many other things
As a water utility employee. I wish they would not allow grounding to the water or gas lines.
When something goes wrong we get to see and feel the jolt. When we remove a water meter and sparks fly, that is no good. We should all work together to keep all utilities separated.
Gas should have an insulating union at the riser. The gas company uses a low dc voltage for impressed current Catholic Protection on steel gas lines.
Never ground or bond before the meter. All bonding should happen on the fuel line after the meter. If you see a yellow wire near the gas riser do not connect anything to that.
That is why it's required to have a jumper to prevent that issue when removing a water heater or water meter.
The water/gas lines are not being grounded -they are bonded to the grounding system. Bonding means that there is an continuous path to the main panel (continuity). All metal piping systems that are likely to become energized needs to be bonded to the grounding system. This is to ensure that if a fault occurs, the current will find it's way back to the panel and trip the breaker. If you are being shocked by metal water/gas piping, it is likely there is not continuity (correctly bonded) to the grounding system.... Proper electrical systems are designed to fail safely.
@@briansiebert8242 I have seen so many electricians connect to the gas riser. Do not do that regardless of what you call it.
but dude, without bonding, should a wire become loose and energize the water or gas line, you will get lit up either way... proper bonding is supposed to prevent that
This my second time watching this video. I love how you walk us through the entire process. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Nice video, one that that stood out to me was using a Sawzall to cut the conductors 😅 I'd definitely recommend some cable cutters or a bandsaw 👍🏼
I've been doing my own electrical work for 45 years!
Thank you for making this video. It really helped fill in an information gap for my 200 amp service upgrade.
My apprentice mind greatly appreciates your video!
This is the best electrical channel I've seen. Thank you!!
Better practise:
* There are 1000V rated rubber sheets with magnets in the corners, that can be used to safely cover live terminals. Those are quite handy and better than a pice of box, you could use such eqipment to cover the live meter terminals.
* There are safety goggles with protection against arcs. Also I would recommend an arc proof jacket. It's not overly expensive, cheaper than a skin reconstruction surgery. God knows whats the inner resistance of the supply line, in case of a mishap you don't want to go blind and loose lots of skin.
* Doing safety insolation precedures using a proper (for example Fluke T+Pro, Beha-Amprobe 2100, etc.) electrical tester is always a good idea, even if it looks like it's separated. You never know if there is an old hidden bypass to steal electricity that's well enough hidden to be missed. You never know. You test.
* Adding that switch was the perfect opportunity to also add surge protection at the entrypoint, where it's most effective. A combined SPD Type 1+2 would be perfect there and never a waste of money with all those open-air supply cables, in my opinion.
* Seemingly bonding between PE and Neutral was done via the casing of the box. Instead using a separate conductor would be better, since I have doubts about the capability of the box to handle any stronger surges and keep electric corrosion away from structural parts. Always offer a better low ohms path to stray currents on PE otherweise they will corrode your structural screws over the years like hell.
* Using insolated tools is always a good idea.
* I would use quite a bit more Aluminum anti-ox grease for additional anti-moisture coating, that pays off a lot on the long term. Capilary effects on stranded wires tend to pull moisture.
* This kind of work justifies making a full round of measurements (Lo ohm PE test, grid inner resistance Zi, loop Zs, Riso) to make sure there are no surprises on the cables hidden in those PVC pipes that are not visible to regular continuity / resistance tests.
I thought i was the only one to use card board cut out as a shield. Good work excellent communication.
Shoulda taped the top of it quickly to the inside of the meter box cover.
Awesome job! Thanks for being so straight about the obvious things.
Great video. I am in complete agreement on the value of the paid estimate. Nothing more valuable than your time and experience. Not an electrician but I work for myself and am in the service industry. I usually request for a consultation fee that is credited to the project if they use me for the project. Question: why did you/he install a new ground terminal strip for the ground?; Transferring the existing ground over to it.
Your most of who you hang with, I'm hanging out with you.. Cheers to success.
Wow you actually used the nolox properly on the aluminum there by using your plumbers wire brush pipe (wire) cleaner to add the nolox on. Nicely done someone read the directions lol
great video, glad I found your channel. In regards to a one-handed cutting tool, the compact bandsaws from both milwuakee and Dewalt are great for cutting feeders!
I've come to really love my compact band saw. Been using it fairly often in our more recent videos!
You're an excellent teacher. Would love to see a greater commitment to safety.
Why didn't you just turn that hub around instead of using the offset?
Is that a red color coded wire you just put in a neutral lug?
Why wouldn't you use a set of loppers?
I agree with your perspective on charging for an estimate. I am willing to pay for such a valuable service especially when I do some research and I am prepared to engage in a serious dialogue.
What I said to the electrician who put on our outdoor cut-off switch, "isn't this how most slasher movies start?" We formerly had an inside cut-off.
And, I've recently become aware of torque screw drivers, which probably should be used on smaller wiring connections. If I were an electrician, I'd consider investing in one. They are expensive.
Could you do a video explaining when and where to bond or not bond your neutral/ground buss bars?
You can designate the outdoor disconnect as an emergency disconnect and leave the main bonding jumper in the indoor panel at the service disconnect nec 230-85
Really? Just when I thought I had it all figured out…
@@ElectricProAcademy 250.25 Grounding Systems Permitted to Be Connected on the Supply Side of the Disconnect.
HOWdy E-P-A,
I will tackle a similar outside Service disconnect
You have given me a LOT of great POINTERS
Thanks
COOP
...
I like be when you explain everything. Great to have a reason behind things
Prior to the 2020 requirement for an outdoor disconnect for emergency personnel, it was common to have one if the interior panel was installed more than a few feet away from the meter, depending on the AHJ some may specify as little as 2 to 3 foot, others maybe 6 to 8 foot. My understanding is because service conductors normally do not have overload or short circuit protection other than the primary fuse on the utility transformer, which is sized to protect the transformer and not the drop, and if the cable were damaged such as by a nail or screw on the line side of the main breaker, the conductors would be incinerated, the house likely will be on fire, and there's no way for the homeowner or firefighters to shut off the power. If lucky the primary fuse will blow or the drop melts and cuts power. And certain parts of the country have long required an outdoor disconnect anyway.
@@ElectricProAcademy I agree. I will say, the code is intentionally vague on this as it (as you know) states "...or inside nearest the point of
entrance of the service conductors." If an inspector dings you for 16" in this case his a prick, plain and simple.
I understand that some of the new electronic meters will disconnect current if it exceeds the current capacity of the meter , I know many already have remote disconnect
For the installations you describe where the service conductors traverse portions of the interior of the house, typically the requirement has been that these conductors be installed in EMT, IMC, or RMC. At that point the fire and shock potential is limited significantly.
@not tellin no, for first responders to fires. For their safety and to aid in the extinguishing of electrical fires. Not everything in life is a conspiracy.
@@steveloux4709 I guess to be fair, not everyone understands that because electrical fires didn’t just start in 2020 just like the code also updated requirements for surge protection in newer builds or upgrades. You would think the safety would’ve been around a lot sooner than 2020.
You just Violated NFPA-70E PPE category one Requires PPE single rated arc rated clothing, Face and head protection needed for arc Flash Also require clothing
Never heard of NoLox. I have used clear silicone caulk for years. It waterproofs and prevents rust.
Tradesmen around me, especially electricians, refuse to use a level. Love to see it.
That SER must have been really fun pulling through that lb rather than using individual conductors. And one rule I learned is always have more than one meter in my vehicle.
2023 you have to label your main disconnect “Emergency Disconnect, Service Disconnect” on the outside of the box, white letters on a red background with the letters at least 1/2” tall
Good video. But I"m trying to figure out, why didn't you land the EGC from the outside main disconnect box onto the new grounding bar that you added to the interior panel. If you left it connected to the neutral busbar on the left side, wouldn't that be a ground fault?
I was wondering the same.
The inspector didn't make you terminate the grounding electrode system in the disconnect?
Thanks for the video. So I understand that the ground in the new first disconnect you installed is an earth ground and an equipment ground via the subpanel, and that the neutral and ground in the disconnect are coupled via the green ground screw at the neutral. As to the subpanel, neutral and ground are no longer bonded, and the earth ground and equipment ground are coupled together and fed via the single ground to the new first disconnect. This arrangement appears to be not in strict compliance with the code because the earthand equipment ground are coupled in the subpanel. Am I missing something?
I have a fluke and a small southwire tester that dose not require battery to work just in case. Been there on the roof of a college going to test a 480 volts ac disconnect to start taking it apart when the battery’s crap out on me. I feel you.
Nice job.. And in future it will come down to ….”do you own a properly calibrated torque wrench… “ NEC 110.22 would require an identification of Disconnecting Means the label should be of sufficient durability for the external environment as well. The question is should it go on the inside or outside? I would prefer to have both have a larger external label and smaller label internally as you did. That way it’s way more evident and noticeable even in the dark say for an emergency responder. I have had firemen come out and look at my external disconnects I have two of them that extra step in labeling is greatly appreciated. Yes fluke way better or at least another solid make and better to have a great voltmeter for providing dead and continuity with a proving unit. In my estimation still too many US electricians over estimate their abilities in working live. Experienced electricians are just as human as younger apprentices. Always work de-energized and prove its de-energized before starting work….
I'd expect, "Did you own a torque wrench at the time this wiring connection was made?"
The round plastic meter cover on my panel is very oxidized and I can no longer read the numbers on the meter. Is that something that requires the replacement of the whole meter or can just the cover be replaced?
Hi, thanks for the Videos.I am verry interested.Its really exciting how it works in the US.Greetings from Austria.
The circuit between your new service disconnect and you’re now subpanel inside is a feeder. Feeders are required to have equipment grounding conductors 215.6 sized based on 250.122. Not 250.66. 250.66 is for a grounding electrode conductor. A grounding electrode conductor would be required either in or before a service disconnect separately from the requirement for the equipment grounding conductor on the feeder. 250.24(A)(1).
That opening statement is WILD to me. Here in NY the inspectors won’t even get out of their car if you aren’t there lol on everything I’ve worked on between residential and small commercial that’s been the case
I can relate to what you are talking concerning Inspectors but from the other side. I was the Fire Marshal for our city before I retired and had to contend with everything you discussed but from the enforcement side.
Thank you for doing your job well. Though it often slows our progress, we appreciate having more (sadly, not total...) certainty in others' work.
@@ElectricProAcademy I always tried to do my job right. If my name was attached/associated with something it had better be correct.
@@ElectricProAcademy I watch your channel because I love learning from professionals that are dedicated to doing the job right. I found out a long time ago it is cheaper to do the job right the first time rather than trying to cut corners to save money and end up having to go back and do it right the second time. I have a lot of respect for what you are doing.
If i am installing a manual 200 amp double throw swich in the place of your application it does not a a breaker so would it still be the only place i bond my neutral and ground
you're a phenomenal teacher
No he's not. Study grounding and bonding and you'll find he's done it wrong. FIRST POINT OF DISCONNECT
I’m doing this in my home now. I’m installing a non fused 200amp safety switch in between my meter and ATS for my generator. Are the neutrals and grounds shared here since it is the first means of disconnect?
Another awesome video. Nolox everything ferrous to save the next guy. Love that philosophy.
The sirens going off in the background, at the exact moment when you cut the seal off the meter: awesome sound editing. You did add that in, right?
😅 We wish...
The civil suit concluded on “do you own a torque wrench?” is a fascinating addition. That's the sort of surprisingly useful factoid that people who know me well expect to hear from me. :+ )
It's also fascinating that the utility there allows self certification of work in the meter enclosure; that is very American.
As this is the first means of disconnect, shouldn't the grounded conductor be bonded to the grounding service conductors?
Great video. Nice dialogue. Appreciate the insights.
Amazon has a pair of ratcheting wire cutters no more than $80 the pair I bought was $57 and works really well
48:00 the reason the tap bits break easily is that they need to be hardened in order to cut the threads. the hardening makes the metal more brittle.
The first panel, is the panel after the service disconnect. What makes a panel the "service disconnect"? A sticker (and one switch, or one breaker). So, with a "service disconnect" sticker, the house panel, can remain unchanged because the service disconnect is part of the service entrance equipment. You do not put the "main" sticker, on the service disconnect, because it is now part of the service entrance equipment. The original main, is still the main. Putting the main sticker on the service disconnect, more then doubled your work. I was a former contractor for ABB.
Just discovered channel. Nice install, and narration.👍
Joel,
I'm assuming the GEC's were relocated to the subpanel ground bar per 250.121(A).
Again per 250.121(A), Use of Equipment Grounding Conductors. An equipment grounding conductor shall not be used as a grounding electrode conductor.
Exception: A wire-type equipment grounding conductor installed in compliance with 250.6(A) and the applicable requirements for both the equipment grounding conductor and the grounding electrode conductor in Parts II, III, and VI of this article shall be permitted to serve as both an equipment grounding conductor and a grounding electrode conductor.
Using the EGC as a GEC, 250.24(A)(1) must be followed. 250.24(A)(1):
"(1) General. The grounding electrode conductor connection shall be made at any accessible point from the load end of the overhead service conductors, service drop, underground service conductors, or service lateral to, including the terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is connected at the service disconnecting means." That being said, the EGC/GEC should be connected at the neutal terminal. 250.24(A)(4) Permits a wire jumper sized as a MBJ from the neutral terminal to the EGC bar or terminal. (Neutral bar/terminal extensions shall not rely on just the metal enclosure.)
Just some thoughts...
@@ElectricProAcademy Thanks for taking the time to peruse through the references I provided. Your bottom line summation is to the point, and I guess I could have just stated it that way. But, providing references takes the subjective out of the equation. While 250.121(A) is possibly a little obscure, it also is useful when optional standby generator additions are installed with service rated ATS. The existing MB panel, converted to a subpanel, could save relocating the existing GEC's to the new ATS.
I'm glad to help out your channel.
Great video. Question. On the inside panel, after separating the grounds from neutrals, do you need to move the large ground connector / external earth ground to the newly installed ground bar? Leaving it bounded to the cabinet requires the individual grounds to bond through the cabinet before getting to the earth ground. Thank you.
It needs to go outside to the new disconnect. There it will bond to the neutral and enclosure.
Awesome video Wisdom,knowledge,experience thanks for sharing
This was exactly what i was looking for. Thank you.
Hey Joel! Great videos!!
Question Re: External/Emergency House Disconnect
I have a single-breaker, whole house, external, emergency disconnect box on my home. Subsequently, my first, downstream, load center, inside my garage, is actually a sub panel.
If I want to add a generator inlet box/breaker, can I add it - with a properly installed interlock kit - in that first load center (subpanel); OR do I need to look at possibly altering the emergency disconnect box to accommodate the add of the breaker for the generator inlet in the outside disconnect box??? Sorry for the length! I THOUGHT it was a short question!
Nice video good content
I like that you point out ever little thing goes right and wrong
Like nicks on insulation or missed step labeling wires white tape
I'd include a 4 1/2 DeWalt angle grinder with a 4 1/2 metal cutting blade in your tool kit. It will cut the wires in a much more controlled way and nice clean cuts.
So, the connection between the incoming neutral and local earthing system is via the main isolator cabinet body. This would not be permitted in Australia. And likely, the existing neutral/earth link you had on the ‘old’ main switchboard would have remained as the ‘MEN Link’ as the Australian/New Zealand Wiring Rules (AS/NZS 3000) require.
It is interesting to me as a professional electrical engineer how different jurisdictions solve the same problems. 😀
I believe the US NEC states that the neutral and earth ground bond must be made at the point of first disconnect. This ensures that that location is the same and only location that voltage potential on the neutral will be sent to ground, whether that potential originates on the the utility side or the customer side. I'm curious what the Australian code says, and the reason they give for still having it at the main panel. I'm always curious what other code books say and the reason they have for it.
@@Robinzano Exactly. This is where he failed. He calls it a techicallity but it's more than that.
I am an electrical engineer in the US and the grounding system is a fail. He calls it a technical point but it's code 101. Grounding happens at the first means of disconnect,
Also note that you cannot call this disconnect an "isolator." The neutral path is continuous and never disconnected. There is no complete isolation.