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- Опубліковано 10 сер 2019
- "Join Marshall Trimble, Arizona's esteemed state historian, as he unveils the captivating tale behind Skull Cave's hidden history."
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Mescalero Apache here... I really enjoyed your story. I love listening to the past and how wild my people were. I'm glad we survived and are still around today. We are few but still here on the reservation.
Best regards for Mescalero Apaches from distant land of Serbia,we appreciate your battle for liberty against opression ✊
Best regards!
Love from Ireland 🇮🇪
I'm Yavapai Native American and my ancestors used to be war allies with the tonto, pinal, aravaipa, and some cibecue apaches long ago. Both people used to fight together against neighboring tribes, the mexicans, americans etc.
I apologize for the crap the founders pulled on you guys.....you were more than caring and generous! Good on you. I'm glad ur still here too because I love to learn your teachings and think you're kind/knowledgeable people's
I've lived in the Phoenix valley my whole life and have never explored all the history in my own backyard. I find this information fascinating
Marshall Trimble as Arizona's official state historian, is pure GOLD ! I tried to get into his classes at Scottsdale Comm. College and was never able to connect it up. I sure would love to meet the man some day.
The story of what happened there and all the events leading up to it would make one incredible movie.
Real history is priceless. Thank you so much for what you do.
Always a joy hiking and camping in those mountains
Great story and video. Marshall is an excellent story teller and historian for Arizona.
These stories are a national treasure. Thank you Charlie and Marshall Trimble. God Bless Charlie! He's found the gold at last. Godspeed.
As Usual......... Excellent. You've got me hooked. Just to add, this is one of the best episodes, Thanks again
Marshall Trimble tells a good story,
I just binge watched all the Marshall Trimble episodes. What a treasure he is. Hope he's doing well. Thanks for bringing us great work. Lvya all much. Shalom. D
How we all doing today? I appreciate how open and honest each video is it’s really refreshing keep up the great work!
Another great segment. I just love listening about these stories and seeing the old photos. I can just visualizing how rough it was like during those dark times just by those photos and the story itself. Thanks for sharing
I’m glad you guys have documented the history in this area
Truely interesting story.
Thanks for sharing.
Love this videos, I was working at TRW in Mesa in 1995 Heard some of these stories. Only if I was younger I would go back and do some hiking and exploring.
GREAT video! You’re right. This story needs to be told.
I had to pause this a few times, but I got it watched...
Well told history my friend...
Thanks again Charlie..
😎👍
Great stuff! Thanks for sharing!😊
This is my favorite video on this channel. Thanks!
I could listen to the Marshall tell stories all day.
thanks pard! love the ole arizona territory history.. the real west.. ....happy trails....
See how good getting an education is when it is available welcomed by all,very benificial,bless the Lord for being so good to us all!!!!!!
So interesting and educational. Thanks for posting!
I have loved listening to this guy. Thank you.
I truly appreciate you sharing this. Thank you :)
Hello You!
Had that book in my hands today. .On The Border with Crook.......what a great interview...
I LOVE the history!!
For those here talking about the old wars between the tribes. Think of this here in Modern day times. Standing Rock we had Over 560 Tribes from around the Globe come together. 1st time in all history. We Are United. We Are One Tribe. All treaties made by the u.s. government each amd every one of them have Never been honored! Honor the Treaties Stop the hate. Chief Sittingbull said " it will be the 7th generation(which is here now), to Save this Earth. All Colors of the Rainbow".
This generation? The one fighting over what bathroom to use? The one confusing children as to what gender they are? The one stoking race riots ? I don't think they will save the world lol
@@antiantifans1914 very well-spoken I was thinking the very same thing
@@antiantifans1914 You lump everyone in one category as were all the same…. Some children had parents that raised them right. So don’t be so ignorant! Let’s go Brandon!
@@SetTheWild I was more making fun of hippie above who said we are all united and saving the world. I'm not saying all young people are libturds. I'm not old myself.
Wise words
First time viewER and I'm gonna stick around. I thoroughly enjoyed this story so thank you very much I am also looking forward to watching some more of your videos. Liked n' subscribed. Cheers
Amazing, once I went through Globe and on to Phoenix and that country is massive and beautiful...I loved it. Globe is my favorite spot in Arizona.
''A Great Story & History Lesson. Thankyou.''
I actually saw a hip bone as well as finger bones when I visited this cave. Bullet holes are still in the cave walls. I was pretty young when we went there, it was a hell a of hike to get up to it. Boat trip in to gain access.
Brilliant story teller!! This man is fascinating to listen to!! I'm British and I never knew any of this history!! Thank you very much for your excellent programs!!
Love your videos!!!!!
Love this video first time hearing of this so educational
My wife and I love to have “picnics” out here in the desert too what a buzz kill but awesome discovery while looking for a spot to “picnic” lol
Great info you know your facts like you were there. Thank you
Great interview,
The last of my tribe is the story of Mike Burns...a 7 yr old captured by the Cavalry on the way to his tribes cave Skull Cave...he tells the story of The Skull Cave Massacre...then went on to become a US Army scout for General Crook...died in 1932 at Ft McDowell...
lOVE hearing the history of our American Southwest - notably Arizona👏🏻😬🦎
This is some heartbreaking real history that should really make us look around and see that no matter what color skin you have were all human. 😑 but yet we're still divided. God bless everyone tonight 🙏
Killa Kali We are in a battle of good vs evil. Been going on forever. In politics its Republicans ( good ) vs Democrats ( evil ).
Land. Just saying.
@@mikewhite9818 the battle is a spiritual one against principalities, and the powers of darkness "ie" Satan and his devils, (which is the battle of Armageddon) its been going on for 2000 years....thus we war not with flesh and blood, but by resisting the devil and loving our neighbour.....
bonnie johnson You are right about the good vs evil argument. It is in plain sight today. Leftist against normal people, Muslims again christians, or teaching Mothers to have their babies killed. Watch this. ua-cam.com/video/jOl_a8CzEeQ/v-deo.html
@@mikewhite9818 those politicians you speak of are also doing everything they can to keep us divided (it makes it that much easier for them to accomplish their goals when they've got us distracted by creating/fostering this us vs. them mentality that seems so prevalant today).
Great History lesson.
Former truck driver......in Salt River canyon....countless times......awesome in bright moonlight...
I’ve seen skull cave many times on canyon lake. Pretty cool.
Fascinating
Looks like that area was used in all the lone ranger shows and movies,now I know its located in the state of arizona,very interesting,can never learn too much about history.
Fifty years ago I inherited 120 acres around fort thomas. Globe area and sold it without knowing the history of the area. Did know the apaches have a reservation thereabouts
Very interesting!
Great Storyteller...
Not all the bones were picked up. You can still find a lot of bone fragments there.
leave them...so one showed me some human bones from that area they kept as souvenirs....I wouldn't touch them, bad juju...
Very refreshing. Happy I came across this site, I've definitely subscribed and liked and had I found site earlier, that would be the only thing I would improve🤠 🤠🤠🖖🏼🙋🏼"""👀🌎✌"""
good story thanks
Amazing information and details . The Indians always got the short end of the stick but some did not want peace . I have been out in that area , I don't think modern man could live there , like he said it;s very rough .
Bottom line, they didn't want their land and their livelihood stolen from them. That's what happened, regardless of what the government did in portraying their innocence.
@@jimmie200 indians werent innocent either. They were battling each other at the time, not just the white man
Love these videos and history. I'm no detective but this sure seems as though someone else was the interviewer,still Great.
Nope, it was me and no one else. Charlie
It was done in segments at separate times/locations with filmed questions edited in to appear to be asked at the time that the interview was taking place. Still a great video and story.
so so fluent,,, real easy listening and v interesting indeed,,,M😎
Loved this.. sad tho how the Native American were always treated so badly and it’s still going on .. a damn shame.. can’t wait for more stories!
Yes shameful we should all love all people we are one race in this old tired world God bless all 😍
Kathleen Stevens the Pima and a lot of the other tribes around the salt river are getting paid through the casinos and shopping centers that have been constructed on their lands. The last time I drove in that area I saw nice houses instead of run down trailers and broken down cars. The tribes are getting their poop together and getting educated and becoming businessmen. I'm glad to see that because when I was a kid we lived at the border of the Pima res and Scottsdale and the Pima would come to get liquor and I recall some bad wrecks that involve drunk Pima people who were killed riding in the back of pickup truck.
the tribes treated each other worse than whites ever did...pima hated the apache, as did the navajo...they had a thousand yrs of warfare that put ISIS to shame before the whites conquered them...and btw...most tribes cut off the noses of unfaithful women...its the reason for Geronimos last breakout when they told him he couldnt...so i would learn about the individual tribe....and btw the Mexicans were 10 times worse than the US Army...learn, read,digest...
Yeah because the Indians we're completely innocent, I hope you caught my sarcasm there. There's a reason they were called Savages. They they treated each other worse than we could think about, not only that they did some really shity things. Read up on the Comanches, and then get back to me.
@Al Schuck you don't know me, I'm an avid Outdoorsman and Hunter. And I respect our lands, I pick up trash when I am out hiking and hunting. I always take way more out than I bring in. And by the way I've been on many reservations, a lot of them are run down with trash everywhere. You can't blame anyone other than the tribe for that situation. So get off your fucking high horse pun intended. I'm sure you're still blaming the white man for the decline of buffalo populations. Even though it is proven that there were bands of Native Americans that joined in on the mass slaughter of the Buffalo. You need to read Dan Flores works.
This sounds like the place I always heard called the Treasure Cave . So-called because they found some things that the Indians had collected on their raids. It was referenced in an old History of Arizona book that had a description of things related to the mile-markers along the road.
I really look forward to your videos. I know its hot as a red headed stepchild in AZ right now but you guys should do some more videos out in the field like the one showing that old cashe, it would be awesome to see skull cave... hint hint haha
This the cave that Duck Holmes showed to Brownie Holmes when teaching him about the mountains and how to survive. He was shown this cave and explained how this is what we did. In Brownie time as a kid it still smelt like rotting flesh.
That's beautiful country.. I no That country.. was born an raised in Arizona.. if you no tht country you would no why they left the bodies their.. it's very rugged.. very rugged country.
very interesting
Camp grant massacre. That was the name of the killings outside of Tucson. Several books on it, even a few from the Apache perspective. Sad deal.
I am from Northern Virginia and a big history buff of the old west. Have never been to Arizona.
Which major city would I fly to in order to visit the old forts and such. Phoenix? Enjoyed the video.
. Nothing that good on TV anymore good except maybe the reality shows or shows from the 60"s.
hey - quit interrupting this man - hes interesting.
And if you're gonna interrupt, for Pete's sake, moderate the difference in volume! 🤦
For real.... I'd love to only hear the historian without the rude interruptions.
How's it interesting ??? This idiot keeps calling my people indians. !!!!!!! We don't come from India .!!!!!!!! That's a totally different continent . If you want to make this an educational warfare let me know.
Ljw Reynolds shut up moron
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Interesting.
I wish we knew so much more about the Native Americans. How far back can we find recorded history of their civilisations? I wish we could glimpse back in time. So fascinating.
Before the Indians we're the ancient Caucasians
a yavapai scout new about the cave because he was raised there...he lead the way...the indians were dancing by firelight...Bourke writes a good book
The victor writes the history.
Better than historians trying to reimagine what “could have been” like some idealistic armchair quarterback. The guy sure knows some interesting history but I can’t stand when people feel the need to wrap things up by saying “and it was just terrible that everyone couldn’t have been nicer to the natives”...I don’t know if it’s a CYA to keep native groups and BLM types from calling him racist but he just got done telling the well known history of certain tribes violence, and how they refused to stop living by the raider lifestyle, then almost immediately flip flops to pretending there was a way they were gonna be dealt with besides the gun....while the victor often writes the history (id argue thats less true than the biggest whiner writing the tale of victimhood in many cases) the biggest distortion of history is to let our modern day view of what’s acceptable or right make us ignore one side, or both sides claims. In the case of the natives we have both settlers and peaceful natives acknowledging the “never surrender” attitude of some of the warlike tribes. You have to say the evidence points to THEM being the ones to instigate a lot of the shit. They also should be blamed for not holding out an olive branch to such a technologically superior civilization. No matter who was here first that’s like humans trying to fight aliens. You’re SO much better off taking the offer to set up a space casino and anyone with common sense back then had to see that too....let’s look at history through the eyes of the people who were there not the guilt ridden white people being suckered into apologies by the people who want to profit off of victimhood today.
I wish the victor got to write the history because the world would be a lot less annoying and people would probably understand what really happened in the past better. You would know that white American men are not in fact responsible for all the tragedy in the world, you’d know that Israel isn’t being “too mean” to the Palestinians, and you’d know that the natives fancied themselves warriors not monks and they knew what they were getting into when they raided villages and battled US troops (and virtually everyone else)! You would know also that there has never been a true genocide by “white supremacists” on “people of color” in America (or I dare say anywhere else) like the prevailing narrative in modern times would have you think.
Anyone who puts the blame for what happened to native women and children on thee shoulders of anyone besides their own warriors that persistently attacked settlers and our military, and who refused to surrender or coexist, is like an apologist for Hamas who criticizes Israel when there’s collateral damage from them defending themselves. The real difference between the two sides in both conflicts is that the natives and islamists often tried to do their worst to the Israelis and Americans while the other side barely took the gloves off. Being incapable of inflicting harm on your enemy doesn’t make you the better guy! Like a gift, sometimes it’s just the thought and effort that counts!
i read the book on the border with crook, really cool stories
Marshall name drops King Woolsey. Instantly backs up his history nerd cred. But I think he brushes past the whole Mike Burns section. Mike was not with his people in the cave. He was captured by soldiers near 4 Peaks and forced to show his people's hiding place. ICYMI Mike Burns was forced to lead soldiers to the cave where he saw them massacre his family and 50 other of his people. He also wrote a book...
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought skull cave was located at Apache lake just to the east of horse Mesa dam and on the north side of the lake. Thanks for sharing
Canyon Lake
@@mysteriesofthesuperstition6793
After 30 plus years since I did my research, my memory isn't what it used to be. Thanks for clarifying the location.
from the eygptians to the romans to the greeks, etc., this is how history has been the superior in number, power taking over the inferior, so nothing has changed from then to the indians, but it's so unfortunate that people were killed in the process
I made 5 expeditions searching the superstition mountains for the LDM ..a lot of what he told you about fort Mc Dowell is true and some of those details are backed up in the LDM legend ...I have over 700 photo of the mountains in fine detail it took over 60 hours to document a 3 mile area of the trails and area ..,great video . and yes I am the Blind Bowman from upstate NY ..
I ask everyone that goes into the mountains to use common scents and sound logic when doing trips into the area .. respect the wild life and beauty of the area and know one mistake can be your last .and these mountains will test your health and metal will being so ...I learn the cost first hand my brother started bleeding from the noise hiking up of the step mountains . it would be the start of a battle with heart damage ,so if your out there and get sick or don't feel well stop on the trail and rest a few minutes and pace your self .. you are safe on the trail for the most part ..and what ever you do don't panic ! .stay safe stay free
I did a lot of rock climbing and no fear of heights, just love the fall hate the landing ...lol
I live at 6000 ft. Lol but if sick or out of shape, I feel it up higher in our mountains.
I don't believe I ever saw a picture of Geronimo smiling.
Take us on a trip to Black Cross Butte..
Humans are curious creatures. From the dawn of time, they have been motivated by either quest or conquest, many times resulting in horribly, unfortunate, consequences. That said, had it not been for this unquenchable desire as a species, to better ourselves, broaden our horizons and attain the presumably unattainable, instead of viewing this video on the internet, we would still be huddling around a fire, painting on cave walls to communicate and stitching together animal skins to keep warm. Our history, is our history, the good, the bad and the ugly. It cannot be changed to suit our happiness, nor our remorse. We would all do well to embrace it, learn from it and move forward, lest we be doomed to repeat it. God bless America.
I miss Charlie.
This Marshall is a very good Story Teller
He knows all the facts and acceptet the nativ as humans with all the same rights every human have
This Nation USA do good to clear this bad things that were Done from both sides
But i dont see the will by the goverment and the president
So these Wounds never heal and infectet the whole Nation again and again
Yours Frank Galetzka
Learning the history we didn’t learn in school is very heartbreaking. I dont understand why they cant try to make amends in some sort of fashion. All we learned about the Native Americans was with Cristopher Columbus (who did not discover America), but it was severely sugar coated, and Thanksgiving which was also sugar coated. We should have learned about ALL of the tribes and their accomplishments and struggles, and what reeeeally happened to them....it should have been history that was taught and not white washed. I would have been eager to learn about it in school, and I am still eager now.
Of course he treats them like humans. He's lived around them his whole life. Not just some characters in a history book.
Now what are we supposed to do about something completely out of our control. Atrocities hat happened decades ago. Between people who both thought they were doing what was best for the greater good of the people at the time. Who had a completely different set of values than we. History is to be learned from and not dwelled upon. Holding others at present responsible for your situation because of something that was done to someone else over a hundred years ago is insane. Weather it be what happened to the native Americans or slavery or the Spanish Inquisition for the sake of argument. This new trend of vertue signiling has taken the place in society that racism and bigotry filled in the past. And is just as harmful in its causing separation and striff between people. The only thing we owe others wether it be of different colors,race or gender is the basic respect we owe to every human. And the only thing that others owe us is that same respect.
*Marshall Trimble really needs to do a full Personal and Military Biography Documentary on General George Crook, for UA-cam.*
*The content is sparse and General Crook is a most worthy Figure in History, his true story warrants having a respectable Production.*
Best regards,
Beth Bartlett
Sociologist/Behavioralist
and Historian
Beth:
I agree with you that such a documentary would be a great idea however, we receive monthly reviews from UA-cam and we have learned a great deal from them.
We have 5,000,000 views world wide and the report of “minutes viewed tells us that people do not view a story in full if they story goes beyond 30 minutes We had one fellow who told stories 45 to 60 minutes and full views died a significant death. we found that 10 to 15 minutes was the best time frame to hold most peoples attention span. At the museum I held explanations of exhibits to one minute or observed people walking away beyond that.
So, how long would such a documentary, as you describe take? And how many would actually view it in full?
We compromise with our audience, very few demand longer stories but the facts support two things. One: few complaints come from a shorter story and two: they want Dutchman related stories.
Once we deviate from the Dutchman views drop substantially. We have one Dutchman story with over 800,000 views while a military story beyond the Superstitions
Did poorly. Marshall is out of the picture now and as the only speaker left I would not attempt to put such a documentary together knowing what people really want.
Just for everyone's knowledge,,"The desert is full of fools " just look for the green spots... be careful out there in the Sonoran. Fema region 9,dist 7,Vetrans on Patrol PIO out.
now do one on Doctrine of Discovery.
Whites could hardly survive where Indians lived, played and raised families. Indians were certainly a tough people. Great video..
sixshooter they knew the land better than any other people..
Not true but that could be said about any race in a new land Indians knew the land were to look for water & food take any one or thang and place it in a place that strange and over night can be a fight just to live,
@@sawreneruckson8780 Not true, there are still millions of us throughout the country
Whites could hardly survive? Ahhh.....really? No more payote for you.
sixshooter that’s a gross, inaccurate generalization.
Thanks
looks like Crooks had some compassion and empathy
When I was a teen in school, I had a pen pal, a Mescalero (sp) Apache girl my age for several months. Her name was Gloria Magosch (sp). I often wonder what ever happened to her in all these years later.
mescaleroapachetribe.com/ If can't Google her or get clues as we can find Americans not on reservation, then why not try contacting tribe?
Did you make contact to the tribal chiefs?
"extermination" call it what it truly was GENOCIDE
They exterminated the ancient Caucasians before them
Unfortunately, that’s the blight of our history as a country. A lot of it was over gold and land. And the rest was simply power and greed. The Native Americans are so strong, they survive
@@tattoofthesun the native Americans know about genocide..they erased the people BEFORE them,Caucasians and some blacks,( olmecs)
At least the "native"Americans are still here..those BEFORE them are gone,thanks to the native Americans
@@jquest43 yes but you can't tell folks that cause white bad and all that. They are believing the revisionist history that's being out out now. Long before any European people came to America these tribes were enslaving each other and wiping out each other for many years let alone the people they found when they traveled here from elsewhere there were no native American people. Those that were here migrated here.
@@jdearing46 before them were ancient Caucasians,some European
The photo of the Apache was not Cochise!!
Crook was from Ohio, about a hour from here in Cincinnati.
Why are they showing a picture of Chato as Cochise?? Misidentified.
At no point does he mention that there was any return fire. Sooo... it's really a civilian massacre then? What is really sad is the continuing justification put forward for the genocide.
yes there was return fire...they killed a few scouts and calvary...and were also given 3 separate times to surrender...answer was no...
read the Bourke book...
@@curtismes Yeah except, there's nothing immoral about self defense.
@@AverageAmerican no there isnt...although this band had killed a kid down near Tucson and they were tracked all the way from there...the lead scout for the Army was raised in the cave, he led them to it...I dont deny the Indian wars were bloody unfair and downright dirty...on both sides...much like the tribal warfare for 2000 yrs before white man showed up...I admire Bourke and Crook...always have...it was after this that Crook ordered military Doctors to accompany patrols as this action had over 20 wounded enemy ....Crook spent his life advocating for the fair treatment of Indians whom quit raiding and killing whites...and advocated killing or capturing the ones who didnt...all history is bloody.
Just wondered if you knew them??
Forget to mention the Apache who escaped the cave. How when he felt he was out of rifle range he stopped to shack his ass at the troopers and got his butt blown off. As I recall it over 600yds. Did it happen?
The narration seems oddly spliced in??
MY Mothers Aunt Evelyn Norris use to take care of and make sure the Indians had what they needed out there when she was young,, her last n as me was Norris. Her Uncle evelyns see husbands name was Ernest Norris in Tuscon back then
Name like that he's got to know what he's talking about
Leave it to Goverment
Did you know my mothers Aunt?? Her name was Norris her last name, I can member her first name right off darn it she come to our house when I was little, my grampa,s sister she moved out there when she's young , before i's born. But she married Bill Inabinett after her husband died, she took care of the Indians at the reservation in or around there (Tuscon) just wondering cayse haven't heard anything from any of em since my Ma died would of liked to hear from one of em
Not only a crime to stick the scouts with the rest but the rest of the natives must have been pissed at them big time
aquachigger.