The History of RPGs Ep. 2 | Dragon Quest II (Dragon Warrior II) Analysis (1987)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Nine months after the release of the first game, Japan would receive a sequel to the hit Dragon Quest.
Please Support Me Through Patreon: / mrgentleman
Special Thanks:
Dragon Quest II Super Famicom footage courtesy of wballz03
Dragon Quest II GBC footage courtesy of
Wizardry footage courtesy of LordKarnov42
Final Fantasy footage courtesy of Paper Napkin
I personally like the grinding. I like seeing my stats boost over time. Those spikes in difficulty were a strong slap in the face and a reminder you had to earn your way to a new area.
Anthony Starke just finished the original nes version for the first time. grinding is a part of the experience, i agree. i could live without the cheap instant death spell though haha.
@@skalitstudio2208 Oof, yes! Those insta deaths were absolutely brutal, I just played through the game for the first time & finished it maybe 6~9 months ago.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know you played the game as hard as it is and beat it ? It's an accomplishment and proves you're not a quitter
You can have that without any grinding though, it just slows down progression
Mr. Gentle man must have drank a couple Redbulls before recording this video. He reads the script like he's trying set a speedrun record.
In DQ1, the enemies were drawn as sprites, so they could be placed on top of a background. In DQ2, the enemies are part of the background, so they couldn't be drawn on top of a nice background, and also since multiple enemies can be in a fight at once, so there wouldn't be enough room in graphics memory to have a background and all the monsters at once.
You positive on this? I'm pretty saure i've seen a huge enemy's foot overlap a textbox while playing this. so i'd guess it's still a sprite on top of everything else.
@@Drachenhannes can you explain the multiple enemies appearing without any sort of flickering, then?
@@Drachenhannes They put the sprite on top of the background. That's how you get palette swaps holding swords.
❤
I've examined the assembly code, and both Dragon Quest I & II use background tiles to generate 95% of enemy images in their battle screens; this is even true for small enemies. When you defeat an enemy in DQ1, the game simply swaps out background tiles when they disappear. The only sprites are used for slight color enhancements on certain enemies and any overlaps with the menu.
Thank you for making this series. I have been wanting to see a doc on JRPGs for a long time and you've made a good one that is long and full of content. Great work.
subbed
wh-
I never minded the grinding. It prepared me for games like Everquest...And more importantly life. It prepared me for grinding out a living at work. I am able to play hours of games. Take long vacations and not mind grinding out hours of stupid work.
That's a great way to look at work. I have an easy job that's dangerous but only for 10 hours a week. I have to do insane amounts of walking, but I'm going to start thinking of it as just a grind for experience and gold.
Attacking already dead enemies, while annoying to a player, always made sense to me from a role-playing perspective. If you and your party member charge at an enemy and his blow kills it, you don't get to magically teleport to another enemy to complete your attack (unless you teleport magically, of course)
Part of why I consider it working this way here (and in Final Fantasy 1) a feature rather than a "bug". It also is more engaging, as it requires players to mentally track the relative attack powers of their heroes and the durability of enemies, spreading out their attacks as needed instead of lazily mashing the A button in every combat encounter.
Still kinda makes no sense, why would you chant a spell or swing a sword at a dead enemy ?
@@GTSN38Death isn't always obvious IRL, and attacks could happen simultaneously or very nearly simultaneously. This is why it happens in the span of one turn, not between turns.
You also don't take turns in a real fight so how about we error on the side of convenience?
About that I hated that about the FIRST Lufia game on the SNES Lufia 2 (though a PREQUEL) to Fortress of doom has auto targeting switching from a DEAD enemy to a living target if the entire party ended up using a skill/spell/attack item on the same targets.
For the Dragon quest games most of the ones I played auto target from dead enemies to living targets if the entire party hits the same enemy BUT in the case of the first 3 Dragon quest games they aren't ANY critical hit or miss skills which is the only way to kill the Metal Slime types and yes DQ2 IS the first game in which the Liquid Metal ones first show up for 10,000 exp a pop but DQ2 also lacks critical hit or miss based WEAPONS and the Poison Daggers first show up in DQ3 for either 1 damage or instantly killing the Metal slime types.
I take it you're making a video for every Dragon Quest game, from 1 to 10? That'd be pretty neat.
Finding the 5 crests, and getting through the Cave to Rhone were near impossible without a strategy guide. The version I had, (NES 1991), came with a map that showed where most of the crests and keys were. But it didn't give much more info beyond that. All I knew was that the final crest was in the Cave to Rhone, so you needed to go into the cave and then leave after finding it. If you didn't leave, to go get the charm, you would have to backtrack through the hardest cave in the game and then go back through it again. It was like they expected that you would have to grind forever, before you even figured out the Cave to Rhone. I know I did.
Just wanted to say, this is by far one of my favorite gaming series on YT. Thanks for the great content
The GameBoy version of this is one of my all-time favorite RPGs, in large part because it was the second one I played. The first being on the same cartridge, of course. The original coming out the year I was born seems fitting in a different way.
You Mean Gameboy Color. 😁
@@user-gs3ru1yc4v It was a Game Boy cartridge with full Game Boy Color support, which is distinct from full Game Boy Color only cartridges like that of Dragon Warrior 3's portable port a couple years later (if you insist on maximizing pedantry).
@@RoninCatholic 👍
It's nice seeing these classic DQ enemies in NES form. Never played the original version of this and it looks great for an NES game imo.
I remember a trick from this game that made battles easier. Have the first two characters defend and then abort their commands and re-enter their actions to be whatever you want. The first two will take half damage if hit but still take their attack or spell casting commands.
I've never played much Dragon Quest, maybe 2 over the years, so watching this after playing Builders 1 and 2 and loving them has been pretty fun. Their stories were basically alternate universe versions of DQ1 and 2. Dind't know that before.
Isn't B2 plot a continuation of the og 2 tho?
Never played Dragons Quest, but damn, RPGs have come a looooong way.
You should it's the best rpg series of all time.
@@supersonicsaga yessir and still is 5 years later
@@GTSN38 True dat.
I just beat NES DW2 the other day. Absolutely brutal, evil game. Major balance issues, but I was still happy to do it. Fun fact: DW2 started out as much harder than the released incarnation, with the first castle you visit being in the location of the spring of bravery. The first continent/area also had to be heavily nerfed, since it was common for a lone prince of middenhall to fight 5+ slimes and slugs, and be wiped out mercilessly en-route.
The programming was changed to have an "enemy value" check, and depending on the selection of enemies in a region, would subtract the "level" of the enemy from the maximum allowed value.
This means in area 1, which may consist of slimes, red slimes, and slugs, the max value is (3), and each of those enemies are worth (1) a piece- resulting in no group at the very start exceeding 3 opponents.
As someone Who played DQ II right after DQ I. 2 is indeed a Massive Improvement! The battles are much more complex. you now control 3 characters, new tiles, better music, and you get to ride a boat. and what's really cool was I was able to complete it in just 2 days. and that was only with my characters at around 23 to 28 so I didn't have to grind as much.
Really glad I got to play these on the original 8 bit format.
I think I read somewhere that they dropped the backgrounds as a workaround the sprite limitations on the NES, using the background layer on the enemy sprites instead, making them more colorful and detailed.
It's a goal of mine to get max items and levels in these games (Dragon Warrior I through IV on the NES). I'm halfway there. I've already played through all the games at least a few times and played them since I was a kid. Why? Well, just for the fun of it, strategy, and opportunity. Just traveling around these worlds from time to time is a joy to me, like a home away from home. They're cozy. :)
This was always my favorite dragon quest game because of the unforgiving difficulty.
"There's MANY different accessories" there's two, Amulet/Banishing Bell and the Windcloak...
Thank you for your thorough and equitable analysis. Great work.
Still very well made videos. Enjoyable to listen to even after listening to years later.
I love your "History of RPGs" videos. Thank you for giving these earlier RPGs a serious treatment. Would love to see you do the same for some Ultima titles! :)
I think you should mention the iOS/Android remakes' amazing orchestral scores, one of the few saving graces of those versions of the games. Overall, you have room to improve (your delivery is a bit too monotone and the editing's a bit choppy), but you have what it takes to make amazing videos about gaming history. Can't wait for the next episode!
I think those soundtracks come straight from Sugiyama's real orchestra, so even those games' one saving grace isn't even original to them! Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I'm currently working on the next video. I'm slowly trying to do something with my voice to make it come off less monotone, but I think it'll be in the video after where it really begins to show. I'm trying to balance not breathing heavily between sentences and trying to make it sound like i'm addressing an audience all at once and it's definitely tough to learn, but i'm getting there.
I actually like the mobile version.
Old comment but still, one thing I love about the mobile ports is also adding in quality of life changes such as Seeds of Strength, Agility etc, not having to user the awkward TALK, DOOR, STAIRS functions and just hitting a button instead.
Plus quick saving, and the fact it displays your stat changes for equipment before buying it.
I’ve played 7th Saga, so the tedium of grinding doesn’t scare me anymore lol
I agree this game doesn't get enough credit and is underrated
I haven’t played this game since the mid 90’s sometime but I remember that last grind session like it was yesterday. I usually don’t mind grinding at all but that was nuts.
I remember bugging my parents until they were driving all over the state with me trying to find this game when it first came out.
After going through Dragon Quest 2, I can say that it is one of the hardest games ever. But I'm a sucker for hard games and this was my kind of challenge. All the more for me when you finally beat it and feel so satisfied that it's over.
Oh and one of the reasons why Enix had to take care of the publishing themselves is because they lost the support of Nintendo of America due to the failure of the first Dragon Warrior. Sadly their decision to bring the next three games over would end up doing more harm than good and would ultimately lead to DQ leaving the West for several years.
I cant imagine how long this takes to edit
I remember playing the gameboy color version of the first 3 games. The second game I remember being the least fun. DQ1 was my gateway game for other rpgs and made everything super easy for me to understand…with help from the strategy guide. DQ2 I remember being a grind fest that I finished but my greatest sense of satisfaction was knowing that I wouldn’t have to play anymore. DQ3 on the other hand, is still one of my all time favorite games.
I have actually been playing through this game recently, and the Sailing is not anywhere near as bad as you make it out to be. The game actually came with a Map, which negates most of the trouble of not knowing where things are when sailing. And if you don't have the Map, well that's what the Internet is for. And even without any map at all, I find it to be extremely refreshing and fun to have to explore and find things on your own in a great big world. What's so boring about that? Maybe your tastes just suck.
If I died, I would generally just load a previous save. I "grind" so much though that I almost never die in these games. Who knows? I may have searched every square facing every direction in them over the years, LOL OK, a bit of an exaggeration, but probably not that far off.
There's enough packed into these games and I play them a few years in between so there's always something I'm not quite sure about or don't remember perfectly. It keeps them entertaining and challenging and rewarding enough for me, but still comfortable and a return to fond memories.
I am looking forward to playing this on the SFC. Maybe I'll finally figure out why a surprising number of fans refer to the main characters as "Kissing Cousins"... >.>
At least in the Japanese version, the Princess gets a little flirty with you.
Goodness, you speak very quickly.
I just found this channel. and I'm really impressed with the rpg video you made.
Played 4 and 5 on the DS. Nice to see a summary of the series roots.
Original NES version.
The princess was bugged, even supposed to be weak, her stat gains were half what they should have been.
Though i did get a rare dragon potion drop from a metal babble, which allows you to save anywhere, but it doesn't let you save and continue from anywhere.. I used it, on the way to Rhone, and thought 'mm nice' [as I found it in rhone road] and considered returning later.. only to be at the last town I saved in. Oh well.
It's such a rare drop you'll probably never find it, but I have the save file on my NES cartridge.. but if I change the battery it will delete.. and it will delete anyway once the battery dies... oh well.
And wasn't the whole scneario with the prince getting sick also bugged? So you just never stayed at the inn in that one town.
watching this while grinding on dq 6
i had a dream, im in an unknown island, there's an entrance to a underground temple, and in the very end wall of the temple their's a hidden door with a long corridor lead to somewhere else, all the feeling of exploration comes from Dragon Quest II NES version back to 1980s
I never had those dreams but I have been in a lot of zombie apocalypse dreams. They're fun, maybe that's the future of video games
I really enjoyed watching it and learned a lot, but I do have a few complaints. When you narrate, try to make sure your inhaling for breath isn't caught in the Mike because I could hear you multiple times taking a breath, detracting from the experience. Not only that, some times it felt like you were rambling on about the information instead of telling us. Other than those things, I think you did a good job and can't wait for the next episode!
Sounds like you were rambling too. It's been three years, are you still rambling...
@@itslikethat5456 No he isn't, fool. He is providing constructive criticism while also stating that he liked the video.
@@itslikethat5456 it’s been three years are you still waiting for a response?it’s been 7 years is he still rambling?
@@frankf684 lol. He wasn't rambling at all. He made a good point about the narration.
Just finished Dragon Quest 2 yesterday for the first time, loved it!
Dq2 is a hard game took me a week
But Dq1 took me just a day
loving this series so far!
Really enjoyed this video. Good job! Thank you.
I liked the video regardless. But I think your DQ3 video is a perfect video. Length. Audio. And speed. This video could be better by lowering the music volume. And if you talked a little slower. More natural. I can’t speak for everyone. But when I see a long video. I immediately click. And will watch the whole thing. In this. I can hear you getting out of breath. Slow down man. Love the content though.
The volume stuff is fixed in every video from DQ3 and on. The voice stuff has always been an ongoing thing, but I've experimented over time, trying to find the right tenor. This is a much older video that I plan to remake later in the year.
Sega fanboy here who nevertheless...
Must give the respect due to this game. Watching this, I now realize how many elements of this were used in Phantasy Star and even Shining Force later on (spells built into weapons, etc.).
More and more I have to concede that while we had a better system (SMS), we had less truly great games. It's funny to think that Golvellius and Phantasy Star are both, ultimately, clones of NES games, though both are able to transcend this.
Love the difficulty of this game, nice and challenging. Probably my favourite DQ game, this or 5 which is the opposite of this game in it never seemed challenging, more of a great story though.
I’m playing the GBC version of DQ 2 right now and Grinding is definitely more intrusive. It took me forever to get my main character to lvl 15 and I was emulating
thats odd as the gbc version gives you more exp.
Lol
This game true hard
Just beat the game a week
I love this game so much! It’s one of my favorite RPGs on the Nes. Dragon Quest 3 is better though.
My biggest gripe with this game are absolutely the encounter rate and the text box speed. (the latter of which is of course down to the technology of the era this game was developed in, so I can forgive that part as far as the original is concerned)
I could deal with just about any and all other issues - even the immense grind - but when even just getting from point A to point B takes approximately thirty million years, I get annoyed. Quite annoyed.
this is a cool vid but I'm getting anxiety because I feel like I'm suffocating listening to it
The strategy of the weapons are simple, the poor one is for grind and the good one is for the next scenario, so you must grind until you get all the goodies then you go to the next part of the history, this way the game is way easier....
i know this video is old but so many spots that are higher or lower in volume.
i like the video brother but calm down with the talking. haha so fast
And those edit cuts... omg...
Yeah, he sounds like he's constantly out of breath.
Also sounds too far from the mic.
The music almost drowns him out, i hope this one gets redone
I know it's been a while so feedback ay not matter, but... great video, comprehensive and fun to watch. But the audio levels are bad, all music and clips are too loud compared to your voice.
I find it a little hard to listen to this after a while because of the staccato, monotonous way the script is read. I understand it's a lot of information to convey and the video already is half an hour long. That's no small feat. Still, a bit more varied intonation and less hasty and breathless way of delivering the narration would go a long way to make this more enjoyable to listen to. Still, good job! :)
you should do a dragon quest iii
Good video buddy, but sometimes the music gets a bit too loud almost drowning out your audio
DQ 2 to this day even 40+ years later is STILL BRUTAL the Cave to Rhone is a required are one where nearly EVERYTHING has the FULL part instant kill moves where their nearly works 100% of the time using the same Thwack spells against them will almost never work and this games version of a FF games silence/mute spell IE can't use spells effect their will almost NEVER work even AT LV 50.
Background music way too loud compared to your voice at ~15 minutes. I also feel like you speed too much through your script, and your breathing in is very noticeable. If you took your time to read it more slowly, and lowered the background music compared to your voice, I think the production value of your videos would improve a lot. Nevertheless, the content itself is stunning, and had me captivated all the way through + looking forward to the series.
The SNES version is a great improvement (also improves DQ1 - way, way less grinding).
This game is fun but damn, without a guide it would be insane. I played it back in the '90s with Nintendo Power.
DQ3 and 4 are better tho. I used to hate how the Prince was so weak.
Thanks again!
Cownsol style RPG, huh?
I just beat it again 👍
Hearing bout that grind just made me stop early I don't wanna deal with that lol good video tho!!!!
great video
Slow down! And wtf is a council RPG?!?
I think he said/ meant Console RPG.
Lol yeah I thought it was funny when he said council instead of console
This video gives me anxiety, you speak too fast. I think you should remake this one like you did for the DQ1 video
What issues did the Super Famicom version of the game fix?
I prefer the cuter look of the original versions to the DBZ style of the remakes.
I played the SNES version recently, and I felt that the final grind was still pretty rough, anyone knows if they toned it down even more for the mobile and Nintendo Switch versions?
Its about the same as snes remake.
Where is episode one?
When I was 11 I made it to Hargon but never beat him.
Where are you racing to? The first video was mellow, but this one you are rushing so much that I can hear you taking in air every few words. I’m getting anxiety just listening to you speed read through this video. SLOW DOWN!
Nerds like video games
Is your dad the micro machine man?:)
Unfortunately no, the lack of backgrounds and animated enemies in all FF/DQ games on Famicom has nothing to do with limitation of the hardware. Here's my prove:
ua-cam.com/video/TTV44Sv5-1k/v-deo.html
Perhaps I should have said it was a limitation of its era (1987). Goemon 1 came out in 1990 and Goemon 2 came out in 1992 and by then, they had pretty much mastered NES technology allowing for backgrounds and more active enemy sprites. It does call into question why Dragon Quest IV didn't have backgrounds, though.
Final Fantasy 1 engine was created in the 1987 and right from the start it supported animated characters and battle backgrounds for combat. Enemies sprites can be animated in the exact same manner as the player avatars, because both are just a pixel pictures and from the engine point of view they are exact the same thing. They know how to do this even back then. Also, Goemon 2 backgrounds looks better than FF's ones not because they were creates later, they look better cause Konami actually put an effort into making them.
Not exactly a compelling argument. Final Fantasy 1's backgrounds are really only the upper, upper bar of the screen. That doesn't exactly take much effort in comparison to what FF4 would do and have the entire background and floor drawn out. The rest of your post is pretty much conjecture. Can you prove from historical data that it was just a lack of effort rather than more experience than the hardware?
All battle backgrounds in FF1-3 on the NES looks exactly the same despite the fact that the first game was released in the 1987 and the last one - in 1990. What kind of effort is this? And why do you talk about FF4...? Phantasy Star 1 was a 1987 game and it still got animated monsters, NES port of the Tombs & Treasure was a similarly(but worse) looking 1988 mix between an adventure and JRPG and it also has animation for the enemies, so even in 80s devs know how to do this stuff. Also I'm not sure that it was the lack of effort most of the time, but more like a result of wrong game design and producing decisions. They wanted to create a far more bigger games in the sequels, with a lot of enemies, characters and content... Apparently the price for that was the graphics quality and as result both devs teams updated it far less than they could have.
My point was that FF1-3 had extremely minimal "backgrounds" that were only on he top of the screen compared to FF4 on the SNES which managed to have a completely drawn screen.
Phantasy Star 1 had backgrounds and animated monsters because it was on the Sega Master System which was considerably more powerful than the NES, and even then, it was a game where many people have pointed out that it's pushing the system to its limit.
Tombs and Treasure is NOT a good example. All of the backgrounds are in a much smaller screen which was a lot less demanding.
The reason why Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest had mostly black screens is probably for a multitude of reasons which probably did start with technical limitations. By the time they got to later games, they probably weren't concerned with filling in the battle screens and were busy improving the games in other ways. Like you said at the end, the one thing i'll agree with is that they were probably more interested in creating a much bigger game with bigger continents, more locations to visit, more dungeons, and more monsters to fight.
DQ2 is far and away the worst of the 4 NES Dragon Quest games. The end dungeon of DQ2 is a crapshoot as you have enemies that can one-shot you no matter what your level is.
Not old English. Middle English.
Not middle English either. Psuedo early modern English
good video. very informative. bit too fast on the talking though.
we're not in a rush. take your time