Origins of the American Cab Car: Chicago and North Western’s Commuter Innovation
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- Опубліковано 2 вер 2021
- Cab cars are a common sight on passenger and commuter trains across America. This familiar piece of rolling stock, however, was a novelty in the late 1950's, when the Chicago and North Western Railway began implementing them on their Chicagoland area commuter trains. Why did the Chicago and Northwestern use cab cars, and why did they spread across the country? Watch and learn about the history of the American cab car!
Works Cited:
Images:
Bernard, Marty: flic.kr/p/GEeTLL , flic.kr/p/HwVgrU , flic.kr/p/HwVqt1
Bone, Andrew: flic.kr/p/e5chyz
Chicago Sun Times: railroaddiningcar.org/content...
Daruszka, Daniel: industrialscenery.blogspot.co...
Fingerhood, Bruce: flic.kr/p/6HQGHx
Geller, David P.: www.cl.ais.net/~dbehr/CabCars.html
New York Times: static01.nyt.com/images/2012/...
Pope, Daniel: www.roaringgoodphotography.co...
Rynerson, Robert: flic.kr/p/2jhdPMd , flic.kr/p/2jhhZE5
TIME Magazine: industrialscenery.blogspot.co...
Wilson, David: flic.kr/p/9SepJz , flic.kr/p/9SepKc , flic.kr/p/aaWbuv , flic.kr/p/aaWbvr , flic.kr/p/n3o6jg
Information:
Grant, H. Roger, "The Northwestern: A History of the Chicago & North Western Railway System"
Music:
Huma Huma, "Talkies": • Talkies - Huma-Huma (N...
Videos:
A Northern Boy: • Puyallup Railfanning f...
Oaksub: • Video , • Video , • Video - Авто та транспорт
This is a really informative video, I never even knew that C&NW had such an impact on commuter rail!
The newer bi-level cars came from Canada and were first used on the GO Transit network, in the Toronto area.
When I was Consul General of Costa Rica in the 1700's I would frequently travel to the suburbs on the CNW on railfaning trips. Wonderful memories!
I love your pictures of the yellow and green CN&W commuter cars and the F7s powering them. In the late 60s and early 70s as a kid I spent a lot of time hanging out on the tracks watching these go in and out of downtown Chicago. 3 track set up in the morning the middle track was inbound and afternoon it was outbound. Hung out on Ravenswood and we lived in a three story brown stone on the third floor, mom forbid us from going on the tracks but we kept a low profile and clear of the trains, great memories of the CN&W. I’m still a Railroad geek and always freak out when a post comes across with these reminders of my childhood!
Thank you for your comment, glad you enjoyed the video! I love hearing about stories like these.
Could really roar too those F'7s
Used to be on the El platform right there around Montrose along the middle of Kennedy expressway and you could hear them things when they rolled by
I grew up in Racine WI right along the tracks...we used to run down to the end of the block to watch the green and yellows going to Milwaukee or to Chicago! I sure miss those days!
I moved to Chicago from the San Francisco Bay Area several decades ago. I was blown away when you showed the train going past my old home town station. It didn't look quite so nice when I was there. I'm glad to see they prettied it up some.
In addition, CNW ran bilevel equipment on several long-distance routes, also. Bilevel trains ran as far from Chicago as Ashland, WI and Ishpeming, MI. They may not have been operated push-pull, however.
The long distance bilevel trains were not operated push-pull. And interestingly, they put false roofs on some cars (dining and tap/lounge cars) to blend with the high level cars. They could do this because, unlike Superliner cars, the doors between cars were at the lower level.
@@trainliker100 That's interesting. My book on the 400s is in storage.
Near the end of the GB-Memominee-GB sunday extention of the Shoreland 400 occationally that section ran with a cab car. Also, a geep or FM hood unit would take that run.
This channel is very underrated.
Thank you for your kind comment! I aim to make quality Chicago railroading content and am glad to hear you enjoy it
Underrated for now…I’m sure that will change eventually. These videos are top notch!
Some of those C&NW gallery cars are still in service today! I have even ridden them!
Crazy isn’t it? These gallery cars have some good bones!
Where is that? I know they have some at the Illinois Railway Museum.
@brushcreek42 IRM does have a full CNW commuter train but the old smooth side Pullman Standard gallery cars are still running in regular revenue service. About 8 10 years ago Metra got a bunch of new bilevels and the bean counters decided they could sell off the now surplus PS and early Budd cars from the various component roads of Metra then suddenly realized they jumped the gun on getting rid of them and purchased a bunch back so they tend to run in a rainbow of assorted secondary commuter start ups from around the country though if any of them are cab cars they now run as mid train or behind the locomotive regular coaches or bike accessible cars.
Another great video from my area! Another note is that the C&NW along with The St. Louis Car Co. developed the bi-level gallery cars in the mid 50's. I have a picture around here of a steam locomotive hauling a new pair in yellow and green. Reason C&NW developed them was the rr's back then were charged by train length by the station owners in Chicago. SO C&NW went up. The Santa Fe took notice of those new bi-level cars and the hi-level cars were born for the Super Chief and El Capitan. Amazing really!
I remember riding the St Louis Cars from Park Ridge to Chicago as a teenager in 1957; the fare was 35 cents I believe. They were far superior to the later Pullman cars. I recall riding the 1910 coaches in 1961, which were in good shape, but relegated to locals. The center track limiteds were double deckers. 1961 may have be the end of the 1910 coaches.
None of that is true, friend! The C&NW used their gallery cars on their lines & utilized their stations! There was none of this ‘charging for length’! Would they charge themselves? No. They went double decker to accommodate more passengers utilizing existing stations which could only hold so many cars…in other words, adding more cars wouldn’t be the answer as the trains wouldn’t fit the existing platforms. Also, the CB&Q was the first Chicago railroad to debut double decker gallery cars.
@@chooch1291 I'm a former C&NW employee and I never once heard of the stations being privately owned (apparently several owners!) and then charging the North Western for the length of their commuter trains. That's a new one on me!
@@WAL_DC-6B - Exactly! Unfortunately….many from the foamed community actually believe their own little stories & even enhance them some as they pass them along. A simple search with a popular search engine will easily obtain the results that they should be researching for before making these inane comments.
@@brushcreek42 Think I prefer the Pullman's. St. L look terrible.
I rode some of these CNW turned Metra cars as recently as a few weeks ago downtown. There are still a few of the Pullman bilevels since painted into the orange, gray, and blue on the CNW now UP Metra lines. They're very old and dated but provide that nostalgic feeling of 60+ year old cars. Also love when u showed the CNW on the west line traveling parallel to the Lake Street and CTA line.
Excellent video. Short, informative and interesting! Here in Australia we have pretty much always used twin cab locomotives and they just run around the train, British style.
Regarding safety, I think the safest car is the middle one. Too close to the engine, and the loco can telescope into the first car or two if it hits something as hard as another locomotive. Too close to the end, and a locomotive on another train can telescope into the back of the last car. Maybe you remember the 1996 MARC - Amtrak crash at Silver Spring, MD, where an Amtrak loco collided with a cab car almost head-on. The 2008 Metrolink - UP crash at Chatsworth, CA also shows that the first car behind the locomotive is not safe in the worst case scenario. Of course, trains are much safer than driving, and the Tightlock couplers and anti-climbers usually do their job to prevent fatal train crashes.
The RTA bilevels are built like battleships. There’s not gonna be any telescoping with this equipment. The few wrecks that have involved these cars shows them stacking against each other accordion style. Sit anywhere.
@@chooch1291 - My trips are usually on Bombardier lozenge cars, new Hyundai Rotem cars made in Korea, and Surfliner cars from Alstom. Fortunately we don't have much crash experience with these designs.
I rode these a number of times between Oak Park and Wheaton, IL. Sometimes the engineer left the door open so you could be on the upper level on the right hand side and see out the front. Also, when the gong-style automatic bell was ringing, it didn't really sound like a bell inside the well sound insulated car. It sounded like somebody was pounding on the car floor with a hammer. And they rode very, very smooth.
I rode from Mt Prospect to Chicago from 1965 to 1970. I occasionally stood at the front door inbound to get the "railfan's view". However the front car was always the smoking car so that wasn't so pleasant. I can't remember the engineer ever leaving his door open. I imagine smoking cars have been gone for 40 years or more.
I rode a PRR cab car NJ to NYC in the 40's - Date back to early 1900s
It's amazing how you mention fierce competition from the expressways you should have also mentioned how it was an alternative to them when they became jam packed.
3:19 I see Gallery Cars a lot on Caltrain during my yearly California trips, even though my focus is usually more on the Bombardier and Amtrak California Cab Cars there. It's still sad they're gonna be gone soon.
3:34 My Mortal Enemies. Nothing will ever convince me that those 8-wheeled trash cans are anything good. They're especially not a worthy successor to the older-styled Bombardier Bi-Level Cab Cars, which just happen to be my Favorite Railcars of all time.
3:42 My Absolute Favorite Metra Cab Car, 8473, with that glorious Brass Bell. If I ever wind up in the Chicago area, then my Wild Goose Chase to try to catch it is on.
The train at 3:34 runs through my city
I never knew they came on board that late. I thought they were slightly earlier. The C&NW also faced stiff competition on their southbound route from the North Shore. But then again the North Shore was in pretty sad shape by 1960.
I once had to talk a lady out of calling 911 because she don't understand the concept of cab cars and thought a train carrying her son was running out of control backward despite the fact it made a perfect guided stop at the station. Not mention a few times at train shows, I ran my little HO Scale SEPTA Push-Pull in Push Mode and had people flagging me down for hours trying to tell me that the train is "backwards" and "should be fixed". So yeah....the regular public def needs more education about this practice because damn.....I met some clueless people.
I knew someone who thought when a commuter train ran in reverse, the engineer was still in the locomotive and had their head stuck out the window 😂 The general public certainly does need some educating on trains!
I absolutely despise the stereotype that they "go backwards". All people need to do is just open their eyes a tiny bit wider and notice that Cab Cars have front windows and side-view mirrors, and understand that they have them for a reason. Just because a Cab Car can't run under its own power doesn't mean it's any less important than a locomotive. Cab Cars are in charge 50% of the time, so they really deserve 50% of the credit.
I volunteer at a railroad museum with a large HO layout where we sometimes run the Pacific Surfliner push-pull train. I don't consider any questions "dumb" questions but rather an opportunity to engage with the visitor and do my responsibility as a docent to explain what the design is all about. Regarding the "going backwards" occasional comment - well - arguably it does look like it is going backwards. If you didn't have prior knowledge, that might be the logical assumption.
How can someone be so stupid?
@@trainliker100 There's an old saying, "The only "dumb question" is the one you don't ask."
An addendum,a partial list of railroads in England that used push-pull equipment! London& South Western,London& North Western,London,Brighton& South Coast,Great Western,Great Eastern,and after 1923[Grouping],the system was adopted practically nationwide! Also the Southern Railway,later Southern Region(BR),used a wire system that had EMU's,diesels,and trailer coaches in many configurations,but all freely compatible! And that could be run from a single cab,regardless of the motive power! Also the Swiss National runs Electric push-pulls,as does the DB,[Germany],so there's a lot of operations just under most peoples radar! Hope this helps your research,thank you for a very interesting video,filled in a few blank spots in my information files! Thank you 😊!
Great backstory! "Big ups 👍from Chicago!"
please do more mini documentaries, I love these!
Thank you for your kind comment, I appreciate it! I'm a bit busy with work right now but I've got one in the works - hang tight!
I second that, Injoy history of the C&NW and there's a lot of it to be told.
I’ve got more videos in the works, hang tight!
C&NW's first prototype cab car was #151, which still operates regularly at IRM.
Glad you used my footage! Keep up the great work!
Thanks goes to you for taking great footage and uploading it with a Creative Commons license! Creators like you make my life much easier. Glad you enjoyed the video!
Nice catch at 3:46 because I'm pretty sure 8473 is the only cab car left with the brass bell which I really love!!
Great to hear of these. Germany started in 1936 with the small series Lübeck-Büchener Eisenbahn doubledeck trains, with small streamlined steam locomotives, operating a midrange service between Hamburg and Lübeck. Interestingly this development line was mostly continued in Görlitz, east Germany post war, whereas in West Germany after six prototype cars the idea of running double deck trains was abandoned for decades. Cab cars, though, became standard on local trains once the new series of diesel and electric locomotives were delivered. It took until the 1990s to make them standard in intercity trains as well.
Glad to hear I have some viewers overseas! A previous commenter mentioned that Germany had invented a cab car in the 30's, but I was unable to find more information about it. Thank you for providing this information!
@@bigshouldersrails1318 See a bit of the 1936 trains here ua-cam.com/video/6ySEfJ9kH4U/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/kjnWbo8_uTk/v-deo.html
Very informative
Thank you for the comment! Glad you liked the video.
Erie Lackawanna RR would be the CNW of the east in the 60s and 70s with our comet 1s and U boats.
Interesting fact. Don't know much about eastern railroads but I'll have to look into it!
Looking forward to the Crandall Cab episode
I’ve thought about making a Mini-Documentary on those ugly ducklings. I might just have to… 😉
This video was great! Really entertaining to watch. Keep up the great work!
Thank you for your comment, glad you like the video! I’ve got a video in the works - coming soon!
Pioneering this was the french Chemins de fer de l’État (State Railway) in 1933 and the German Lübeck-Büchener Eisenbahn (Luebeck Buechen Railway) in 1936, both still powered by steam locomotives, a 2-8-2 in France, and a streamlined 2-4-2 in Germany. As both locomotive types had symmetrical wheel arrangements, they could drive in both directions at the same speed.
Thanks for the additional information! I knew push-pull operations existed to some extent in Europe with steam, but my knowledge on that topic is overall limited. From my research, the Chicago and North Western Railway was the first to widely implement push-pull operations with diesels.
Don’t forget the Great Western Railway’s autocoaches! They were built between 1904 and 1954 for push-pull operation with many of their steam locomotives such as their prairies, panniers and autotanks.
@@daylightman8459 The GWR autocoaches are single deck cars, while both the CFE's voitures à étage and the stock of the LBE were double deck push-pull cars. As Europe's pre-war diesel locomotives weren't up to the task, steam tank engines were used in both the French and the German operations. Chicago' and North Western's innovation was using the new, more powerful and versatile diesel engines of the 1940ies and 1950ies together with double deck stock for push-pull-operations.
I seen many Chicago & Northwestern commuter & freight trains on its Chicago to Milwaukee, Green Bay & the Twin Cities line that went past Great Lakes NTC in the summer of 1972 when I was at Navy Boot Camp at Great Lakes. I had the opportunity to ride the Chicago & Northwestern gallery bilevel commuter coaches into Northwestern Station when I went to Chicago. Between the commuter trains of the Penn Central I rode to Philadelphia from Wilmington, DE before I went into the Navy in 1972 & the Chicago & Northwestern commuter trains, I enjoyed & liked the Chicago & Northwestern commuter service much & far better. I ride Amtrak between San Diego, Los Angeles & Ventura,CA on the Pacific Surfliners & the Southern California Metrolink commuter trains which are cab forward. I like the cab forward cars & Chicago & Northwestern railroad influenced others to go with cab cars.
used to travel from Kenosha WI to downtown Chicago every summer. It used to travel up to Racine but they stopped doing that(since I lived in Racine) but no problem. eventually became METRA with cab cars but not like the green and yellow that I loved!
Awesome 👍
In the UK we did and still do go one better (heritage lines). Put our steam driving cars at BOTH ends and the steam train in the middle. Thus double capacity
Great video 👍👍
I have an Ho scale cab car of that yellow green scheme
great video
very informative
Thank you great video very informative
Thank you for your comment, glad you liked the video!
Excellent video! I subscribed to your channel.
Outstanding content 👍
Thank you!
Can you put me in touch with Dave Daruszka, the photographer? You used a shot of the old CNW Erie St. Coach Yard credited to him and was wondering if he had any more photos of Erie St. Thanks.
Nice 👍
Love the origin of the Push Pull operation of Comutter Rail Roading a specially Metra
Novelty on thev US yes. The first commuter cars of this kind were built in 1932 for the Lübeck- Büchner Eisenbahn (RR) and copied after the war from both German Federal Railroads.
Interesting fact! Were these used on diesel or steam locomotives? I do remember reading about a “cab car” type coach used in Germany in the 1930s when I was researching for this video, but was under the impression that it was used for steam locomotives
Cab cars may be efficient, but in my mind they always look wrong somehow.
Man I wish I could have seen the canw run but was born to late
Montreal has those cab cars on thier commuter traiins . The old stainless steel ones up until the late 90's . Then the newer one's
Interesting fact!
With tomorrow's Bears & Packers game, gotta qonder why the C&NW chose yellow & green.
Great video and greetings from Russia. Sadly we never had this type of trains, even Talgo sets feature one locomotive instead of two. So by change of the direction the locomotive should spend extra time. But our Intercity network will be probably mostly EMU-based so that the problem can be solved.
Greetings, great to hear I have some viewers overseas! Those EMU's should help speed up turning around trains.
New Subscriber!
Hey hey, thank you for the sub!
Is the locomotive 1639 an EMD GP?
Can you please talk about the Amtrak California BI Level cars next???
I had just rode in on a new employee-owned Chicago and Northwestern engine while taking WB Ogden's Union Pacific Line in from Geneva and West Chicago getting off at Oak Park. What up with that?
That had to be Metra F59PH 90, painted in the Hetitage scheme. Metra honors its roots with this locomotive painted for the C&NW, but you probably didn’t notice the Metra logo that’s also on the side. Metra also has locos painted for the Milwaukee Road, the Rock Island, and the Burlington.
So does this mean the locomotive in a push/pull operation always faces the outbound side of the consist? This is something I've never noticed before as we don't have passenger trains where I live except for Amtrak where the locomotive is always on the head-end.
Northwestern Station was, and is, a stub (single-ended) station, so keeping the engine at the north end of the train made passengers just that much more comfortable, plus it shortened the walk to the train.
On Amtrak's Pacific Surfliner, the engine is usually on the south end between Los Angeles and San Diego, and after the train reverses in Los Angeles, the locomotive is on the north end between Los Angeles and points north. On the other hand, NCTD usually puts the loco on the north end of their San Diego to Oceanside Coaster trains. Metrolink Orange County line trains usually put the loco on the south end, which makes for a longer walk when boarding at Oceanside. Although Los Angeles Union station is a stub on wye station, passengers access the platforms from a central underpass, so it doesn't matter whether the loco is on the north end of the platform near the station throat, or at the south end, overlooking the Hollywood Freeway.
Yes. At least for the C&NW. If you go to the C&NW terminal in Chicago (now the "Ogilvie Transportation Center") during a busy time you will see many cab cars lined up at the track ends. In addition to the advantages described in the video, this also has an advantage if there is trouble with a locomotive and it has to be replaced. It can either just leave the front of the train under its own power or be towed by another engine, and replacement power brought in and attached, without having to move the train at all.
Yes. Locomotive first heading out of Chicago & locomotive last heading into Chicago. No way to wye the equipment, simply change ends at the outermost station & run it back in. Also, this keeps the locomotive & its noise & exhaust out of the downtown stations as it hangs out of the shed or is at least near the end.
Are the lead passenger carriages motorised or just rely on the locomotive pushing from the back? If so wouldn't it be safer to have a locomotive or power car at both ends to evenly distribute the power?
They are unpowered. MU Cables connect them to the locomotive and allows them to be controlled from the unpowered cab car.
I think you’re missing the point of ‘push pull’ operation. The trains nose into the downtown terminals cabcar first & that way the loud, smoky locomotive remains outside or at least near the outer edge of the train shed.
Did Burlington Northern do that Too?
Yes, so did the rock island and Milwaukee road... but they all used Budd cars instead of Pullmans
*imagine a 1930s streamliner but instead of a parlor at the end there's a cab car*
I wanna see the CNW F59PHI
Woot Sounder train
Was this around the same time they started using head-end power?
Head End Power, is to my knowledge another CNW innovation. Some sort of heavy duty supply (more than just lighting) would be required to operate the cab control systems. HEP was eventually standardised in N America at 480 VAC, which I believe this fleet was equiped with.
The earlest c&nw gallery cars came as steam heated and non-push/pull.
Yes sir :P
1:10
Can you explain what a "cab car" is? I have no idea after watching this video.
The cab car is at the opposite end of the train from the locomotive. With this configuration, the locomotive is in the back instead of the front of the train. The locomotive is pushing the train forward instead of pulling. Cab cars have all the controls that the locomotive has. Some countries have locomotives at both ends, but with this configuration, only one locomotive is needed. The United States uses primarily diesel powered electric locomotives. The diesel engines provide power to a generator that produces electricity for the traction motors.
You already have one pretty good answer. To add to it, there is a small closed compartment at the end at the upper level. These "gallery" cars have upper level seating on both sides with an open space in the middle. At each end of the upper level is a fairly narrow door to get access to the cab area. You can spot a cab car by all of the lights and horns and such on the end as well as the extra windows. A cab car can also be used mid train as just a regular coach. Various cables are connected between all of the cars so that the engineer can control the engine remotely. Nobody is in the engine when in "push" mode.
Isn't there a greater chance of derailment when the loco pushes the train instead of pulling?
No.
So are the Chicago NW cars the ones that are now the hideous grey orange and brown cars?
Yes. The Rock had some painted Pullmans too….
@@chooch1291 Man, they looked so nice in CNW's colors. They look like crap now!
Also, geez- those things are 60 years old now! Time flies when you're having fun, I guess.
I hate to ride anywhere near the cab car. In case of an accident with another train, you don’t have the heavy locomotive to absorb the impact. I a,ways looked for a seat as far back, towards the pushing locomotive, as possible.
Why live in fear?
Cab cars are the most dangerous invention to passengers and crews. No protection for crew or passengers and they will almost certainly derail if involved in a grade crossing accident or any other incident and have a higher rate of casulties than running locomotive forward. The engineers would keep the door slightly open in the event they had to dump the brake and run often seeking shelter under a seat.
I remember seeing a news article a while back where a Metra cab car hit a car and derailed. I know safety has been improved on newer model cab cars, but I don’t think they will ever be as safe as a locomotive.
What? Railroads did something unsafe,to make a buck? Unbelievable, glad I checked in. VERY informative comment.
@@bigshouldersrails1318 Not knocking your video, very informative and well put together start to finish.
None of your statement is true.