If passenger rail service between Milwaukee and Green Bay via Appleton is restored, it will e along what was Chicago & Northwestern right of way. The C & NW operated passenger service to Appleton and Green Bay right up to April 30, 1971. The Chicago & Northwestern had a major presence in terms of freight service in the Fox Cities thanks to the many paper mills, converting plants and some printing plants in the area. A branch line from Appleton to Kimberly to Combined Locks to Kaukauna served four paper mills, a paper converting plant, several paper company warehouses/distribution centers and other customers. When Kimberly Clark operated a sulphite pulp plant at the Kimberly Mill, (sulphite operation was shut down in 1968, but the paper mill operated under various owners until 2008) the C & NW played a major roll in bringing in logs to Kimberly. The 2008 shut down of the Kimberly Mill played a large role in the end of the "Paper Line" C & NW branch line.
Just some corrections: Clinton is in iowa, it was always the Chicago and North Western RAILWAY and William Butler Ogden was an founder of the Galena and Chicago Union
I worked for the CNW from 1967 until 2004 as a brakeman/conductor. When AMTRAK took over in 1971 it was said they did not choose to run their trains via the CNW which runs through Evanston, Waukegan, Kenosha, and Racine (all major population centers) on the way to Milwaukee was because there was no connection between Union Station in Chicago to the CNW. This was not true because there was a connection from Canal Street on the Milwaukee through the CNW"s Eire Street coach yard up onto the CNW at Ogden Avenue. I was told by the old timers this was put in to facilitate troop trains during the war. (Great Lakes Training is on the CNW) This track though unused was still in place in 1971. I noticed it while peering out the window as a young brakeman many times. Why would AMTRAK choose to run it's trains through farm fields on the Milwaukee Road instead of populated cities on the North Western was always my question. This is speculation on my part but it was rumored that the then president of CNW, Ben Hieniman did not want any passenger trains on his railroad. AMTRAK was the gift he was waiting for and shortly after they took over passenger service I noticed the connection disappear. I've often wondered about that.
The other item to consider is the former C&NW line was in such poor shape for passenger service and the Milwaukee line was higher speed being out in the country vs through the urban areas. Additionally C&NW had ATS requiring non-standard cab signals as I remember, then there was the non standard left handed running. Amtrak was attempting to pick routes and equipment in 1971 where it could standardize the passenger equipment as well as operations. They also wanted routes that were speed competitive with the automobile if possible.
@@erichguenther4486 Sorry Amtrak was set up to fail. Avoiding population areas was just a great idea to get it done. They also don't stop at stadiums and for 30 years went right by the Milwaukee airport. Until a Airline lobbied for the stop! Bad track Milwaukee was a downgraded 30mph railroad with 10mph's I rode often. I had tickets by the book. Just tear one off and go! Just excuses for no shoreline service. Plus today this overloaded corridor should open up the North Western CPT station for Milwaukee Trains, Madison and more too. It's not 1970 and gas is not 20- cents a gallon. Shoreline service is a no brainer .Even discussion of it in the legislature was outlawed by Governor Walker. Backed by KOCH BROTHERS MONEY.
The Chicago and northwestern also had the kate shelley 400 which operated from Chicago to Clinton Iowa. That passenger train only ran for a few years and it was a replacement for union pacific long distance passenger trains which union pacific decided to stop using that line sometime back in the 1950s.
Well done, as always. Fun fact: William Ogden was the first mayor of Chicago. (Side note: in the second mayoral election, which didn't involve him, there were about 200+ more votes cast than there were eligible voters in town.) Today, the UP crews operate the Metra/UP (nee C&NW) commuter trains and one can tell which ones have been pulled from freight. These "gentlemen" have the manners and people skills of mules and are loathe to collect/examine tickets, as that is just too much like work. Looking forward to more from you. I live just blocks from the North West line and take it or the North Line from Clybourn, which is in my neighborhood. The Clybourn station used to have a small enclosed waiting area (I know only from pictures) back when intercity trains would pause here to/from downtown. Today, the station is again boasting gang graffiti much like it did in the 1960s and 1970s and the stairwells from the street to the tracks host, by popular demand, the Year 'Round Urine Festival.
The photo used at 13:02 was not of the famed Chicago to Twin Cities via Milwaukee 400. The Chicago to Twin Cities 400 ceased operation in 1963. The train in this photo is leaving what was then called for a short time the Milwaukee Union Station. This station opened in 1965 as the New MIlwaukee Road Station. The Chicago & Northwestern stopped using their lakefront station and moved to the New Milwaukee Road Station in 1968. When Amtrak started operations May 1, 1971 this station became known as the Milwaukee Amtrak station. In the mid 2000s decade the station was extensively remodeled and is now called the Milwaukee Intermodal Station. Several intercity bus lines also use this station. The Milwaukee County Transit System has one or two bus lines which pass this station. The Milwaukee Streetcar has a stop about a block to the east of the Intermodal Station.
Wanted to mention that the 1965 Milwaukee station was built with WisDOT funds as the Milwaukee Road station was to be torn down for a freeway WisDOT was installing. The Milwaukee Road station was actually a joint Milwaukee Road Wisconsin Central passenger station. The last Wisconsin Central Passenger Train departed in the 1940's I believe or the late 1930's. The Everet Street Station was built with funds from Northern Pacific as Wisconsin Central was under it's control when Everet Street Station was built in the 1890's. Just some interesting trivia there. On the flip side when the Northwestern Lakefront Station was built it served more than one pre-C&NW merger railroad (forget the names though). They all merged to form the C&NW or were bought by it.
In Wisconsin, they want to restart the Milwaukee to Green Bay service that Chicago and Northwestern previously ran but on the Fox River Valley alignment. Most of that route is former Soo Line trackage now as the majority of the C&NW trackage South of Oshkosh was abandoned. There are doubts the Green Bay service will ever be restarted because the route lacks strong grass roots support AND the trip would be 1-2 hours longer by train than it is by car unless they relay abandoned rail.
Priced it off the tracks with sky high fares! No credit cards etc. But after the mail and packages left the trains they did not have profits. No losses on the NW but no profits.
I'm pretty sure at least some of the proposed Amtrak route uses former C&NW rails. We still have the old C&NW passenger depot that was up until a few years ago a really good brewery that since moved into a larger location.
I've heard it called "You Claire" and "Eee Claire" - especially by "expert" historians from Illinois. Neither is correct; yours is. And it is French. Means "clear water."
@@ckuehncnwhsyt lived it! Grew up in that area and lived in a near by town. Intresting history there. Sad about the Soo line freight house. Was sure that was going to be saved. They went with a new vibe instead of what the had.
@@marktaylor9975 Lived my whole life in nearby Fall Creek. I was twelve years of age when the Twin Cities 400 went away in '63. I remember it well, rushing through town in a blur of yellow and green, leaving a faint smell of diesel. Yeah, Eau Claire is run by its developers, who pretty much get their way; local preservationists carry very little weight in the discussions. Saddest one of all, to me, is the loss of the C&NW depot on Putnam Street. Seems there was going to be this thriving bakery on that location, which would create scads of jobs. Said bakery lasted only a few years and provided even fewer jobs;. Now it's some kind of warehouse. The depot is only a memory.
The Cinton you refer to is Clinton, Iowa. There is a Clinton, Illinois, but it is located between Bloomington and Decatur, IL. Clinton, IL was the junction point of the Illinois Central lines from Chicago - Sprinfield, and the namesake N-S line.
Chicago and northwestern had most likely lost a lot of riders ( mostly vacation travelers) after union pacific decided to stop being partners with them.
C&NW Cheap and Nothing Worked. Double deckers saved on crews and carry more riders. The trains were dropped so the tracks could be downgraded signals removed and track ripped up and scrapped. C&NW President Heinemann was in the junk business. At the time there was little hope for all trains in the 1960. The railroad was selling stock on the exchange under book value. He saw if he could get control he could sell off assets and make a quick buck for himself and a few others. Kid your missing quite a bit of the story. . Buying shares say for a dollar and paying yourself 25 by going out of business. Old Wall Street trick.
Maybe that is the reason why union pacific decided to stop being partners with Chicago and northwestern sometime back in the 1950s and why union pacific rerouted its passenger trains from Omaha to Chicago on an adjacent milwaukee road line . The union pacific figured that milwaukee road spent more money than the Chicago and northwestern on streamlined passenger trains equipment after ww2. The milwaukee road acquired the best passenger cars for thier train sets while the Chicago and northwestern used hand me down passenger cars and no dome cars (although they did have bilevel cars for panoramic views)on their train sets. Union pacific always was the best quality passenger service possible. Plus they got tired of using Chicago and northwestern stations because they were on the left hand side of track instead of the right (unlike most other American railways).
![Are Trains Getting SLOWER? - The C&NW 400s [S2: E02]](/img/n.gif)
A interesting video well done
If passenger rail service between Milwaukee and Green Bay via Appleton is restored, it will e along what was Chicago & Northwestern right of way. The C & NW operated passenger service to Appleton and Green Bay right up to April 30, 1971.
The Chicago & Northwestern had a major presence in terms of freight service in the Fox Cities thanks to the many paper mills, converting plants and some printing plants in the area. A branch line from Appleton to Kimberly to Combined Locks to Kaukauna served four paper mills, a paper converting plant, several paper company warehouses/distribution centers and other customers.
When Kimberly Clark operated a sulphite pulp plant at the Kimberly Mill, (sulphite operation was shut down in 1968, but the paper mill operated under various owners until 2008) the C & NW played a major roll in bringing in logs to Kimberly.
The 2008 shut down of the Kimberly Mill played a large role in the end of the "Paper Line" C & NW branch line.
Thanks. That was very interesting. I don't know anything about US railroads - much appreciated.
Just some corrections: Clinton is in iowa, it was always the Chicago and North Western RAILWAY and William Butler Ogden was an founder of the Galena and Chicago Union
I remember riding the Twin Cities 400 back in the 1930s, the wifi was terrible.
I worked for the CNW from 1967 until 2004 as a brakeman/conductor. When AMTRAK took over in 1971 it was said they did not choose to run their trains via the CNW which runs through Evanston, Waukegan, Kenosha, and Racine (all major population centers) on the way to Milwaukee was because there was no connection between Union Station in Chicago to the CNW.
This was not true because there was a connection from Canal Street on the Milwaukee through the CNW"s Eire Street coach yard up onto the CNW at Ogden Avenue. I was told by the old timers this was put in to facilitate troop trains during the war. (Great Lakes Training is on the CNW) This track though unused was still in place in 1971. I noticed it while peering out the window as a young brakeman many times. Why would AMTRAK choose to run it's trains through farm fields on the Milwaukee Road instead of populated cities on the North Western was always my question. This is speculation on my part but it was rumored that the then president of CNW, Ben Hieniman did not want any passenger trains on his railroad. AMTRAK was the gift he was waiting for and shortly after they took over passenger service I noticed the connection disappear. I've often wondered about that.
The other item to consider is the former C&NW line was in such poor shape for passenger service and the Milwaukee line was higher speed being out in the country vs through the urban areas. Additionally C&NW had ATS requiring non-standard cab signals as I remember, then there was the non standard left handed running. Amtrak was attempting to pick routes and equipment in 1971 where it could standardize the passenger equipment as well as operations. They also wanted routes that were speed competitive with the automobile if possible.
@@erichguenther4486 Sorry Amtrak was set up to fail. Avoiding population areas was just a great idea to get it done. They also don't stop at stadiums and for 30 years went right by the Milwaukee airport. Until a Airline lobbied for the stop! Bad track Milwaukee was a downgraded 30mph railroad with 10mph's I rode often. I had tickets by the book. Just tear one off and go! Just excuses for no shoreline service. Plus today this overloaded corridor should open up the North Western CPT station for Milwaukee Trains, Madison and more too. It's not 1970 and gas is not 20- cents a gallon. Shoreline service is a no brainer .Even discussion of it in the legislature was outlawed by Governor Walker. Backed by KOCH BROTHERS MONEY.
The Chicago and northwestern also had the kate shelley 400 which operated from Chicago to Clinton Iowa. That passenger train only ran for a few years and it was a replacement for union pacific long distance passenger trains which union pacific decided to stop using that line sometime back in the 1950s.
Well done, as always. Fun fact: William Ogden was the first mayor of Chicago. (Side note: in the second mayoral election, which didn't involve him, there were about 200+ more votes cast than there were eligible voters in town.) Today, the UP crews operate the Metra/UP (nee C&NW) commuter trains and one can tell which ones have been pulled from freight. These "gentlemen" have the manners and people skills of mules and are loathe to collect/examine tickets, as that is just too much like work. Looking forward to more from you. I live just blocks from the North West line and take it or the North Line from Clybourn, which is in my neighborhood. The Clybourn station used to have a small enclosed waiting area (I know only from pictures) back when intercity trains would pause here to/from downtown. Today, the station is again boasting gang graffiti much like it did in the 1960s and 1970s and the stairwells from the street to the tracks host, by popular demand, the Year 'Round Urine Festival.
Metra conductors and trainmen are employed by Metra. Only engineers are employed by UP.
The photo used at 13:02 was not of the famed Chicago to Twin Cities via Milwaukee 400. The Chicago to Twin Cities 400 ceased operation in 1963. The train in this photo is leaving what was then called for a short time the Milwaukee Union Station. This station opened in 1965 as the New MIlwaukee Road Station. The Chicago & Northwestern stopped using their lakefront station and moved to the New Milwaukee Road Station in 1968.
When Amtrak started operations May 1, 1971 this station became known as the Milwaukee Amtrak station. In the mid 2000s decade the station was extensively remodeled and is now called the Milwaukee Intermodal Station. Several intercity bus lines also use this station. The Milwaukee County Transit System has one or two bus lines which pass this station. The Milwaukee Streetcar has a stop about a block to the east of the Intermodal Station.
Wanted to mention that the 1965 Milwaukee station was built with WisDOT funds as the Milwaukee Road station was to be torn down for a freeway WisDOT was installing. The Milwaukee Road station was actually a joint Milwaukee Road Wisconsin Central passenger station. The last Wisconsin Central Passenger Train departed in the 1940's I believe or the late 1930's. The Everet Street Station was built with funds from Northern Pacific as Wisconsin Central was under it's control when Everet Street Station was built in the 1890's. Just some interesting trivia there. On the flip side when the Northwestern Lakefront Station was built it served more than one pre-C&NW merger railroad (forget the names though). They all merged to form the C&NW or were bought by it.
In Wisconsin, they want to restart the Milwaukee to Green Bay service that Chicago and Northwestern previously ran but on the Fox River Valley alignment. Most of that route is former Soo Line trackage now as the majority of the C&NW trackage South of Oshkosh was abandoned. There are doubts the Green Bay service will ever be restarted because the route lacks strong grass roots support AND the trip would be 1-2 hours longer by train than it is by car unless they relay abandoned rail.
There is support but Koch brothers money is against it. It's pay to play with Wisconsin government.
look at how many people were still riding the Flambeau 400 in the mid 1960's. They basically let the patronage dribble away.
Priced it off the tracks with sky high fares! No credit cards etc. But after the mail and packages left the trains they did not have profits. No losses on the NW but no profits.
I'm pretty sure at least some of the proposed Amtrak route uses former C&NW rails. We still have the old C&NW passenger depot that was up until a few years ago a really good brewery that since moved into a larger location.
As for Eau Claire, it's pronounced "oh Clair". We have an eclectic mix of French and Native American place names XD
To pronounce Eau Claire is, try this “OOH Clare” it’s French, I guess… 👍🏻
I've heard it called "You Claire" and "Eee Claire" - especially by "expert" historians from Illinois. Neither is correct; yours is. And it is French. Means "clear water."
@@ckuehncnwhsyt lived it! Grew up in that area and lived in a near by town. Intresting history there. Sad about the Soo line freight house. Was sure that was going to be saved. They went with a new vibe instead of what the had.
@@marktaylor9975
Lived my whole life in nearby Fall Creek. I was twelve years of age when the Twin Cities 400 went away in '63. I remember it well, rushing through town in a blur of yellow and green, leaving a faint smell of diesel.
Yeah, Eau Claire is run by its developers, who pretty much get their way; local preservationists carry very little weight in the discussions. Saddest one of all, to me, is the loss of the C&NW depot on Putnam Street. Seems there was going to be this thriving bakery on that location, which would create scads of jobs. Said bakery lasted only a few years and provided even fewer jobs;. Now it's some kind of warehouse. The depot is only a memory.
The Cinton you refer to is Clinton, Iowa.
There is a Clinton, Illinois, but it is located between Bloomington and Decatur, IL.
Clinton, IL was the junction point of the Illinois Central lines from Chicago - Sprinfield, and the namesake N-S line.
Thank you
Northwest Limited was very profitable cause of package and mail service. And extra fare sleepers
Chicago and northwestern had most likely lost a lot of riders ( mostly vacation travelers) after union pacific decided to stop being partners with them.
C&NW Cheap and Nothing Worked. Double deckers saved on crews and carry more riders. The trains were dropped so the tracks could be downgraded signals removed and track ripped up and scrapped. C&NW President Heinemann was in the junk business. At the time there was little hope for all trains in the 1960. The railroad was selling stock on the exchange under book value. He saw if he could get control he could sell off assets and make a quick buck for himself and a few others. Kid your missing quite a bit of the story. . Buying shares say for a dollar and paying yourself 25 by going out of business. Old Wall Street trick.
Maybe that is the reason why union pacific decided to stop being partners with Chicago and northwestern sometime back in the 1950s and why union pacific rerouted its passenger trains from Omaha to Chicago on an adjacent milwaukee road line . The union pacific figured that milwaukee road spent more money than the Chicago and northwestern on streamlined passenger trains equipment after ww2. The milwaukee road acquired the best passenger cars for thier train sets while the Chicago and northwestern used hand me down passenger cars and no dome cars (although they did have bilevel cars for panoramic views)on their train sets. Union pacific always was the best quality passenger service possible. Plus they got tired of using Chicago and northwestern stations because they were on the left hand side of track instead of the right (unlike most other American railways).