American vs German Christianity | American Reacts |
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- Опубліковано 25 кві 2023
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American vs. German Christianity: I HAD NO IDEA It was This Different
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I gotta say as a Norwegian, the whole pledge of allegiance thing sounds so cultish haha, like wtf
yeah, straight out of a dictatorship/authocratic country. In what real democracy does this pledge of allegiance exist?
@@fusssel7178 According to Lauren Boebert USA is not a democracy, it's a republic
As a German, this gives me definite NoNo-German vibes…
Funny enough they fear communist countries.. meaning they refuse anything that has the slightest smidge of being communist BUT.
These kinds of pledges on the country, their leader or in this case the symbol of the country you find mostly in communist countries.
We in the GDR did something similar.
@@lollorosso4675 Look up "Bellamy Salute" if you don't know about it already…
"Religious education" here in Europe is indeed "about" religions, not indoctrination into a specific religion. You were spot on.
In Finland it used to be indoctrination, but legally it should no longer be. Just classes teaching religion(s) without assuming any god exists.
But practice is not always so rosy, because the teachers are often the same that used to teach the old style religion classes.
But it's slowly getting better with the oldest farts leaving workforce and activists making sure the worst violations of the law are inspected and corrected.
@ In Sweden we separate it. Religionskunskap (Literally "Knowledge of Religions" / "Religion Knowledge") is a required subject for like 4-5 years of school and then at least a half-course in high school (gymnasiet) at the minimum and is about the world's religions, with a primary focus on the major 5; Cristianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism and Hinduism. Free schools will usually have a "bible knowledge" course or similar for their religion, however since ~ 2009 there is no officially recognized grade for those courses. Meaning you can flunk it if you don't really care and nothing happens.
Though, in comparison to central Europe who is still very catholic, us Swedes are primarily Luther-Protestants and our religious population is on decline with agnostics & atheists making up nearly 50% I think.
@ Not only for Germany in the Czech Republic it is similar in the public schools, just talking about the topic of what and where it exists and how it works.
In France they would freak the F out if you even mention those two words together 😂
Edit : But we do learn (in a nutshell) about different beliefs and religion during history classes
Yep! Back when I was growing up in Portugal, religious education was very much roman catholic centric as being curious but the son of atheists (probably the only ones in a 100 miles radius), I was kicked out of that class after asking a few innocent questions.
German here. Our religious classes included basics of various Christian denominations and things like Bible history and church history but also extensive information about Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and others. There were also classes on sects about Scientology etc. So there was just general discussion and information on a lot of different faiths.
So boring. In Denmark we include the Norse gods like Thor/Odin but also the old Inuit religion from Greenland with their shamans.
Then again it is thanks to the Germans we are “Christians” today, which we also learn but that is a different lecture.
The Pledge of Allegiance is already too cult-like for my taste, even if it didn't have the "under god" line in it.
Yes, clear ,,die Fahne hoch"-vibes.
@@dsludge8217 absolutely.
But these fascist elements can be found in all areas of US political and public live.
wich is extremely off putting.
First, Blackwoodforest Family live in the most conservative and religious region of Germany.
So, compared to the far north, where I live, there are WORLDs inbetween. Actually, I think most people in Northern Germany may have even less relation to the churches, than the Danish to their state-driven church, or at least similar. I.e. a very secular one. Use it for nice family parties like confirmation, marriage, maybe for some nice moments with a kind of show effect at Xmas. And for a funeral service.
The financial role of the church is always debated, and often criticized. There is a more than 1000 yrs period, where the church gathered an incredible amount of money, still, they get more, not only by the church taxes, that an atheist like me does NOT have to pay. But also for religiously driven institutions like in the medical or social sector, but also others, and these are financed often directly by everyone's taxes. And this is to be debated of course.
Especially younger people think the role of the churches should be redefined, and the last years, for the first time in history, the number of official church tax payers dropped under 50%. Don't forget, this is a country that was named "Holy Roman Empire of German Nation" once. As Christian as can be. In the mind of the people, the role of the church has totally changed, but their political and financial influence is still extremely high, and of course, the churches are not willing to give that up voluntarily. So people drop out of churches - and out of church tax, to show, that they are not willing to pay for the momentary practices of the churches anymore.
In everyday life, large parts of Germany society live completely unreligious. I can not remember, when I have seen someone praying outside of TV or YT. Seriously. It must have been the last marriage in church that I may have attended. Decades ago.
And I can tell you, how many practicing Christians studied physics at the University, where I studied in the beginning 90s. One of 130. I knew him, he left and studied Theology after 3 semesters.
So, yeah, from this video, it might seem, as if Religion still does play a huge role in Germany. And it does, but this is also under permanent critique. In the minds of the people, if you pray before a family meal, you can be sure you get very, very strange looks from most Germans.
And let's not forget, half of the country was socialist for 40 years. There are MANY atheists in Germany.
Generally, you can say, the higher the level of education and personal freedom in a country is, you can count on the fact, that religion loses serious ground. With reasonable humanism taking over.
And we Germans discuss religion and politics. It is, as totally opposed to the US, even among the most discussed topics at all. In the US, people tend to make the rule "no politics, no religion" as a conversation taboo.
In Germany on the total contrary, if you had a really good lengthy discussion, small talk, whatever, about literally everything, we have an idiom for that: "Über Gott und die Welt reden". And this is generally a very positive statement. Which means literally talking about God and the World, which can be directly interpreted as: religion and politics.
Great reaction. I really like your open-minded way to look at things. And I totally get your life changes in views etc. I knew 2 nice families from the US that lived here and were Mormons. There was a huge, huge difference in mentality. All the best, and have a really, really great Europe vacation this summer!
"First, Blackwoodforest Family live in the most conservative and religious region of Germany."
actually so conservative that even the regional green party is considered a conservative force by the rest of germany. a party that is known for being slightly lunatic and ideology driven
In Denmark, almost 50% are "nons", and only around 8% attend church monthly oe more.
If you compare to Sønderjylland (southern Jutland), then maybe, as it's probably the most religious part of the country. At least traditionally.
@@akyhne Yepp, thanks for clearing up. Yes, I live in Flensburg directly behind the border, and my experiences compare to Sønderjylland. And yes, the Danish church is not remotely what American churches are. More like traditional rituals. My danish friends marry in church, go to funeral services etc. but essentially, it is more like a service that has been paid for, as I understand it. Very different concepts.
Yeah, we are baptized into Christianity. That's also why the English Wikipedia page until recently claimed, that 75% of Danes were Christians.
But they changed that recently, after I gave them some links on actual facts and most recent polls, and also linking to the Danish Wikipedia, with the correct information.
@@akyhneThere are some ridiculous practices with information regarding Christian churches and their alleged member numbers. E.g. if you come to Germany and you were an atheist in France, it can be, that German and French church institutions exchange data (which is most probably also illegal by European standards), and the French migrant is counted as Christian, because he was baptized. And since there is no official paper that you actively quit church membership, you are obliged to German church tax, no matter how many decades you have been an atheist, without even knowing, until you get mail from German finance offices. Absurd, but a real case.
Another point: Religious classes in Germany are becoming less and less. They aren't meant to convert you to a certain believe, they mostly teach the history of said religion and explain the cultural influence the religion had in Germany or Europe / western culture in general. So it is more a history class with a focus on religion.
If you opt-out on that you usually get philosophy as a substitute.
It's more a scientific class about religions than anything else, you learn about Judism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism etc.
In Denmark, religion is taught for the same reasons as history. To give people an understanding of their own cultural history and that of others'. Thus, in the younger grades children are taught about Christianity -- not how to practice it or what to believe, but just what it is about. In older years, they are taught about Religion, meaning other religions (Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.) and other forms of Christianity to the Danish variety. The goal being for each individual, regardless of their own beliefs, to have some understanding the related histories and the beliefs of other people.
I would say the church in Europe (regardless of denomination) is more an historical institution that happens to have some involvement in religion rather than a religious institution in the absolute sense. The European church is more a financial, real estate, education and charitable organisation with a religious philosophy than a true church, although it definitely still aims to oversee the religious and moral wellbeing of each country.
from the 22% who attent church in germany i say 90% go on christmas and thats it xD
alot of times they REALLY emty like VERY emty :)
and as 36 year old german i knew 1 person my whole life under the age of 50 who was religious christian AT ALL none of my friends or people i know or ever talked to are religious at all
You forgot, marriages, baptisms and burials 🙂
If my memory serves me right we learnt mainly history of religion and church as well as other religions on our classes in Finland. I liked those lessons and scored good grades even though I'm not religious at all.
Those classes back then were mandatory. I have been atheist all my life...sadly grown up in very religious family. I just thought as long i remember...silly and as 6 years old bit scary.
I also grew up in Finland, and at least in my school it was very Lutheran-centric in primary school. We learned the Bible stories and stuff like that, and even though almost every kid in my school was an atheist (or at least didn't profess any belief publicly for fear of being mocked for it), the perspective of the religious classes was sort of that "this is what happened". We also sang a few hymns together every morning and the local priest would also come to our school and hold short sermons once in a while in the morning. In secondary school (högstadiet/yläaste) however the curriculum was much more neutral, and we looked at a lot of different religions from a more descriptive and "outside" point of view, including Lutheran Christianity.
Actually "church tax" is not a "Tax" in sense of an "actual Tax" it is basically just a "membership fee"...as like as being member at the "Gym".
It is just colloquially called "Tax" because the Goverment does collect it in order of/in behalf of the church, simply because they have the "needed resources" to do so..and the official name is not "church tax" but " church dues"
Therefore to pay it is basically "voluntary" which an "actually Tax" isn´t by all means, because everyone is free to avoid paying it just by ending church membership...same as like quitting membership at the Gym.
It is a tax because it is not an fixed amount of money but a percentage
I think there's pretty simple way to diffrentiate US vs European situation as far as attitude goes. In US, religion is more about the religion itself and the belief. In Europe Church is part of culture, and maybe bit more specifically cultural heritage and history. This is why in Europe many people are basically atheist but belong to church or maybe even identify as Christian.
Even though my country (Czechia) has an overwhelming majority of atheists, most of our schools still teach the basics about different religions from around the world. What they believe in, what's the origin of the religion, their daily practices and so on, mostly factual stuff so that we have a general knowledge about that kind of things. Of course it's not a separate school subject, it's a part of something similar to USA's civic studies I think. For the few religious students most schools have a specialized voluntary religious subjects.
I feel like I need to add that being religious here is not something people have to be ashamed of or hide their beliefs, vast majority of Czechs are OK with it. Unless you try to push your religion on other people you'll be treated like any other person :D
I think when you take into account one of the main reasons why Europeans moved to America between the 17th and the 19th century was, that they were virtually expelled from their home communities because of "extreme religious beliefs and practices", some of the religion based oddities of the USA can be better understood.
my theory is that the dumbest of the dumb europeans had no chance on this market and thats why they went elsewhere where they can bully others(native americans) like they got bullied. I mean look at their laws.... in some states you can NOT have an abortion, even if you got raped or the child kills the mother at birth. in other states you can abort babies till 24 weeks and there were babies born in 21st week and survived, meaning they are killing humans! Same with guns. Why does everyone, the mentally ill too, has access to guns? thats sooooooo stupid! and look at the food, they poison themself just to get robbed at the hospital..... sry, but I think you cant get anymore stupid. Meanwhile some smart ppl like Jeff Bezos using the new american slave system to exploit all their workers. Well done America!
The "puritans", the forerunners of today's "evangelicals" and republicans, were perfectly free to practice their reilgion in the Netherlands, where they were living before coming over to America. They were not free to persecute others because of their religion, though, which is why they left for America.
@Martijn Hover exactly what they said on a British tv-show called QI. The puritans did not 'flee' Europe to escape persecution, but they left because they wanted to be free to persecute.
@@MartijnHoverIncorrect, for a multitude of reasons.
1. Puritans believed in predestination, that God has already chosen who's saved and who isn't. Evangelicals do not believe this, they believe that salvation is a choice. This is why
2. The modern progressive woke people are the descendants of the pilgrims. Remember the term "puritanical"? Yes, the same one we use to describe progressives who think if you use the wrong rainbow flag, you're not "left enough". Meanwhile the evangelical republicans are far more accepting of different beliefs, so long as you choose to help the community by voting with us.
3. The puritans didn't want to persecute others, they wanted their own children to retain their English lifestyle and tendencies, they didn't want their kids to be Dutch. And who can blame them?
Your simplistic retelling of history might be funny on a tiktok, but it's incredibly uninformed and takes nothing about geography (the puritans we're in new England, where their descendants, the progressives, are also from), religion (the new England puritans we're Calvinist, which is why new englanders to this day act all high amd mighty, especially the atheist ones, meanwhile the Baptist "anyone can be saved" South is far more warm and inviting).
You need to do some research before rehashing old jokes.
@@mikeyb2932"they wanted to be free to persecute" ah yes, having laws which favor your group. Please tell me which nation hasn't been created for this purpose?
And who exactly were these people persecuting? Ah yes, their own people. In other words "if you want to be in our group you have to follow our rules".
It's amazing we don't talk about the persecution of Australia, for the persecution of Canada. Almost like having anarchy is bad or something
I was baptised and also confirmed. But that was only because my parents wanted it.
I am an atheist and I am happy about it. Because so many horrible things that religions have done over the centuries, in the name of God, surely even God would want to get out.
Religion is just a tool for those to gain power, to collect money.
I have nothing against people who want to believe in something, but there is one thing I hate like the plague. 1. wanting to teach or convert me and 2. committing war, assassinations, child abuse, etc. in the name of something.
I remember that we also looked outside the box in religion. In German we read "Nathan the Wise" by Lessing. With the ring parable there, I also got a version of the insight that can be transferred to religions.
danke für den flashback ich hatts in der matura(abi) prüfung XD
Good book, the theater version I had to watch about it back in school kinda destroyed the fun and interest about the book.
@@CDWerth Solange wir nicht die Bedeutung der Amme beim Aufstieg auf den Berg erörtern ist alles im grünen Bereich... B-)
@@gemini-tq1jv bitte was? ne so weit kommen wir in der schweiz nicht wir sind dran hängen geblieben wer mit wem in Schutzzone geschlafen hat. grauenhaftes buch zum glück ab ichs nicht gelesen.
In Denmark it is viewed as a personal thing, but I don't think anyone I know goes to Church regular. Most I know are what we would call Cultural Christians which means, Babtize, Funeral, Marriage, perhaps at Christmas but thats pretty much it.
In Denmark (back when I was in School), it was more about Religion in general instead of how to pray etc.
There is also a Church Tax in Denmark that you must pay per default however you can, cancel that if you wish by contacting your local Townhall.
The Church Tax, are used to preserve the Church and the Graveyards. And is seen more of keeping a Cultural & Historical Buildings that the Religion. Remember that the traditional danish Church most are from the 1100 hundred, so they need some upkeep.
In Germany, the church tax is levied in the same way as in your country and can also be canceled at the office.
Wired that you are interested in this, as an Irish guy I have been absolutely shocked by how religious Americans are and how surprised they are that Europeans are not even here in Ireland less than 40 percent of us believe in god and we are considered quite religious compared to other Europeans.
Regarding religious education: I live in Austria, but I went to school in Bavaria and even 35 years ago there was the alternative of an „ethics“ class. Nearly half of my class mates participated in ethics. We discussed philosophy, psychology and historical events. That was really interesting. Still there was an obligatory crucifix in every class room.
My son went to school here in Austria and at least in our rural region there was no ethics class, only religion (catholic, protestant and muslim). He could have opted out, but then he would have had a free hour in the middle of the the school day and no place to go. So I allowed him to participate in religious education, what he also wanted, though he was never baptized (the school knew this). Sure, he learned about the bible and all the rituals and all the religious stuff, but not in a „you must“ tone, rather „here, this is religion, this is what it consists of and do what you want with this information“. It led not to him becoming religious, that I can tell you. The church has a stronger influence here in Austria, they even have a mass at the beginning of the school year. I think it is more of a community and tradition thing and not really to control the masses.
Edit: I‘m an atheist from birth btw
We did have an ethics class but only when were older, so in the last few years of highschool I think (I took religion class because the teacher was nicer and we only ever watched movies anyway, still had a pretty cool discussion about celibacy etc with that teacher).
I went to school in Bavaria as well, but ethics, while available, would have taken place after 1 pm, so when we could have gone home normally, sooo...
And then there are all the extra religious federal holidays here in Austria that they don't have in the USA. I never even knew there was a day that celebrated Mary going to heaven in the states, but is a holiday here in Austria. I find it hard to keep up with them all, sometimes, though I don't mind in the least.
from a dane : i think it has a lot to do with the lutherian idea that "church" dosent have to be in a building and is betwin u and god... its a private thing...not a badge u wear for people to see. we r very secular. and pretty serius about the seperation of religion and state. in religion class its not just chritianity we learn about its all religions. and they have to be unbiased.
I have a few very religious friends in rural North Carolina who goes to church at least once a week. I, myself is an atheist, but I belive to each his own, so when I visit we never talk about religion.
In Denmark we pay church tax as well, that is if you are a member of Folkekirken (People's Church) - the official Danish church. If you are not a member, you don't pay the tax.
Btw when I visited SLC about 10 years ago, my son almost decided to become a Mormon, because the young girls who approached us on Temple Square all were so pretty 😉
Here in Finland we have *official* state religion (two forms of Christianity) and tax office also collects taxes for them from people who are members of one of those official churches.
But still, or maybe just because of that, amount of religious people is plummeting, with less than half of newborns getting christened in some regions already.
State religion has a huge moderating effect on religion because to be a priest you need to have a degree in theology and thus able to, for example, read the Bible in context and as whole.
This means the people holding ceremonies at least *know* our best understanding of what the text meant when they were written.
So instead of first deciding what stance you want to have and then combing the Bible to find verses that support it, they at least *know* what is the message when looking over the book as whole.
When I was a kid I was still officially a Christian and thus had to go to classes teaching Christianity, so despite being secular now, I know the basics of Christianity better than most Americans.
When defining what is the core of the Christianity, scholars here have turned to the parts of the Bible where a) Jesus himself) b) talks about salvation - what you need to do to get to the Heaven.
And this is the interesting part - the list is quite short:
1) Being a child makes it (almost) automatic
2) Being rich makes it very hard
3) Feeding and visiting poor, minorities and prisoners is mandatory
4) Believing in Jesus makes it a lot easier
As I said, I'm not Christian anymore in any sense of the word, but I would be quite happy if the people waving the Bible would actually follow these principles.
Well the pilgrim fathers were considered almost religious extremists compared to the other protestant faiths in europe and they took their strong believes with them and founded an entire nation on it.
I moved between Italian and Polish schools quite a bit.
In Poland, during religion classes, you're taught only Catholicism with the aim of being a good Catholic.
In Italy, the focus is almost exclusively on Christianity, but more from a cultural and historical perspective. But the high school I attended there taught religion purely from a secular perspective, without a focus on Christianity. We went through the major religions and talked about their cultures, histories, and traditions. In Italy, there were out-of-school programs led by the church that did what the Polish school did during class hours. You could still opt out of the religion programs in both countries.
Until I see an atheist/non-religious president in office I will never believe that the USA really truly practise separation between church and state. 😅 We have church tax here as well, but we can opt out of it.. as I have done. So I don't pay anything to the church. 👍 Have an amazing trip! 🎉 Greetings from the Arctic Circle 😊
I´d say my religion classes were about half and half - partially, especially in the first years, about Catholicism directly and the older we got the more it was about other religions, other denominations, philosophy, ethics, church history including the reformation ... The list goes on. It was honestly one of my favorite subjects, because it was so diverse and with the right teacher (which I had) it was often very thought-provoking. As a side note, since the curriculum has to be agreed to between the state and the church, I strongly suspect it´s much harder to sneak fundementalistic content into those classes than it would be if the majority of religious education would take place at church.
It´s always so nice listen to your topics Heidi. The really stand out from everything else present on social media. Keep on with what your doing. Hope the trip to eurpe will be a pleasent trip.
I‘m Form Austria and we had religion in school too. We learnd about religions in generell and ethnic stuff. My religion class kinda made me an atheist 😅
Swede here. I sometimes hear ordinary Americans mention their church habits, like attending church every Sunday or so, and it always feels a bit weird. My grandparents went to church on some Sundays, my parents didn't. For most of my life I've only attended church on Christmas eve, and mainly because they usually have a good tenor singing Oh Holy Night, and Sibelius Christmas song. And of course on baptisms, weddings, and funerals. Last time I attended church was on my moms funeral some four years ago.
A very important difference between Europe and the US is that in many European countries people are automatically made members of some church when they are born. Everyone here in Sweden is a member of the Swedish church unless they cancel their membership. And this means the Swedish church doesn't need to convince anyone to become a member, it already has all the members it needs. And most people don't care that they are members of the church. This also make things harder for other religious organizations, because they have to convince people to switch organization as opposed to the United states where churches just have to ask people to join. And the consequences are that a majority is part of a church they don't care about, and most religions organizations find it hard to recruit members, and you end up with a mostly religiously indifferent continent. And for the US, you end up with Churches being very competitive and very focused on convincing people to join their church. And since they have actively as opposed to passively joined the church, they are more likely to be very devoted.
Yes, I had religious education in school, about religions. Did you know that Hinduism is the only major religion that imagined that the world might actually be many billions of years old? Whereas most other religions imagined the world to be a few thousand years old, Hindus imagined that a day and night of the Brahma is 8.64 billion years, and a year of the Brahma is 365 of those days, and the Universe is one of many dreams of the Brahma. Once the Brahma has been dreaming for a century, it will sleep dreamlessly for a century, dissolving the Universe, before dreaming a new dream of the Universe.
Finally, glad to hear that you will come to Europe, and I hope you'll make a few videos about your European tour! I bet a bunch of your viewers in Europe would like to say hi to you if you pass by where they live!
Also Swede here, the thing about automatically becoming a member of the Swedish church is incorrect. I used to think the same thing, until my mid 20s when I realized I didn't pay church tax and in fact had never been a member 😅
It used to be the case if at least one of your parents were a member, you automatically joined at birth (none of mine were, I learned). This was however changed in the mid 90s, and since then you have to make the active choice to join. This is of course an increasing issue for the church. Since not many do join, the number of members are steadily decreasing - and since you only pay church tax if you are a member, so is the church’s revenue. More specifically, between 2000 and 2020 the number of members went from 7.4 million down to 5.7 million. Perhaps we will see more activities aimed at recruiting in the future here as well.. 😉
I also only visit a church when there is something like baptism, wedding, or funeral. Most of which are held there because of tradition and that people find the church to be beautiful building to e.g. be married at - rather than for religious reasons.
I have a question: If God is everywhere, why do I have to go to church? I don't understand this concept.
Cause they have blessed a Building and they can't see God in Stones, Trees or Nature in general.
Before the internet, how would you collect for god, if not in a church...
The concept of any christian religion is always around a community. From early on you came together to service god. This community is the church (and not the building or the institution or the leader) You don't have to understand it, you don't have to like it, you don't have to need it, it is simply the key feature of all christian religions to come together somewhere to form a church. And since there are people who seem to need and like it, the concept is perfectly ok.
As a European (a Finn) I think this is a very good pick for a reaction video. The video you are reacting to is very informative and interesting, thanks! As a reaction to this, there are so many things boggling my mind, for example "Belief in God as described in the Bible". This is a classical question but at the same time such an abstract idea: which (!) Bible are you referring to? Oh, all the versions of the Bible.... how can you compare? And: how many of those who answer this question actually have some kind of idea how this biblical god is portrayed?
I'm a German and was Roman Catholic. A few years ago I left the church officially by going to my local town hall and paying 20€ (processing fee) and filling out a form to formally leave. For me it was a financial decision because I don't belief and having that additional ~30€ (edited cause i messed up the number) per month was important to me (needed every cent to survive). And I was sick of getting a letter trying to force me to donate to the local church again a portion of my earnings despite paying tax.
But it comes with consequences, I cant use certain church facilities or get a christian funeral or wedding for example.
So to say with a gross monthly salary of around €5,725 that €100 monthly church tax (that's around 9% church tax on the income tax of a single person) is indispensable, that's probably an exaggeration. I pay so much church tax argument is really weak; if you do not wish to remain a member of the Church, that is your free choice. Consequences are normal, however, so that, for example, I can no longer simply use the equipment in the gym if I am no longer a member.
I'm from Niedersachsen, born 1964, now living in Bremen, and i can only say that my grandparents (grandpa was born 1904) had absolut zero interest in religion. Only my grandma from side od my mother, they came from Ostpreussen, was really religious. My mum .. also not really, still we had to go to church at least once per year at christmas because her mother. But it was only me, my brother, my mother and her mother. Nobody from side of my father ever went there.
If you pay 100€ church tax per month you definitely don't need each cent to survive lol Also if you have a high income there is the possibility of reducing the percentage of church tax payed, but you have request it yourself in a letter to your state church. I just recently learned that.
I guess the donation letter is mostly a catholic thing. I heard a lot of such things happening in the catholic church. My driving instructor told me that he left church (catholic), because the priest went to his grandfather who was already really old and tried to convince him to pass his property on to the church.
@@toomflussiggrillanzunderfu8828 I left church before i ever had to pay anything. I planned to do it before my first job, in the end i did it before my grandmas funeral since i just didn't wanted to sit there and fold my hands if the priest would tell shit about her, because i knew she didn't believed in god.
But the priest was better than i thouht and he said something like : i didn't know how she was in her belief .. and then just said some random stuff, but nothing at all about god and that stuff.
@@beldin2987 Idk i never thought about that. But I'll soon start working as a pharmaceutical engineer and the church tax would reduce my paycheck by a big amount, so i think about leaving the church.
I went to school in germany in the 70s and early 80s, so maybe things changed since then. Yes, we had classes in religion, but as far as I remember, it was more like a scientific education about religion and ethics in general, not about bible verses and praying.
The focus on church taxes is very misleading with regards to the separation of church and state in Germany. IMO there's a much deeper divide between church and state in Germany than the US. I cannot remember any religious arguments playing a role in any law making. Yes, there may be discussions by the public using also religious arguments. But in the parliament ? I cannot remember religion playing any role in decision making. I do not even know the denomination of any politician.
Underrated comment. I agree very much. The tax part is purely financial and I'd also go so far to mention that the religious representatives on boards like the Rundfunkrat or Ethics commission and other places are a lot more moderate in their convictions than many american common people - not just religious leaders. One of my best friends is part of the german ethics commission for the catholic church and I am very much atheist. Our families are nevertheless quite close, because none of us ever tried to push beliefs onto one another. Even religious people here are mostly in a "live and let live"-mindset. The only instance it ever popped up was when I asked her for a recommendation for an OB-Gyn during my pregnancy since I wasn't happy with the one I went to in the first place and she mentioned "this one is good, but I need to tell you that he also performs abortions, in case you're not comfortable with that" and I was like "what? why even mention this? If I don't ask for one, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't even bring it up.", so she clarified that she knows other women who wouldn't feel comfortable with that for religious reasons and I just looked at her with a smirk... which ended the conversation.
Hope you enjoy your trip to Europe this summer! I'll be going on my first trip to Europe (the Baltic region) in exactly 1 month from today.
In Finland in many town you just rent the lot but own the building. Selling land for private investors is bad business for town. Plot rents are considered reasonable tho.
In the UK we have it very strange because the church of England is built into our government so we have Bishops in our House of Lords (Senate) voting on implementation of laws, we also now have Jewish, Muslim, Hindu representatives all appointed & not voted in. Religion is built into schooling so primary age 6 - 11 are expected to get a religious practice like assembly, hymns or prayers everyday but then is altered when older 12 - 14 when you get one lesson a week, but this doesn't have to be Christianity it could be any main religions.
Here in Belgium at least religion is truly seen as a personal thing.
You can be friends with somebody for 10+ years without knowing what their religious practices or opinions are.
Most importantly imo for most they understand that their religious beliefs are just that, theirs.
If they prayed every day the only one who would know might be their SO but I doubt their kid, parents or best friend would know about it.
Hallo Nachbar
Ich wohne in Dortmund was tatsächlich gar nicht so weit weg ist von Belgien.
Ziemlich interessant zu lesen. Ich kann mir aber nicht vorstellen, dass die Familie das nicht mitbekommt.
In the Nordics religiousness is even rarer than in Western Europe in general. In Finland where I live, officially about 33 % of the population are not members of any church and it's increasing rapidly. However, based on a survey a few years ago 40 % said they don't believe in god, 34 said they believed in god (not necessarily the god of the Bible) and 26 % didn't have an opinion. So, many non-religious people belong to the church for some reason even if they are not believers. I don't understand why since we also have a church tax in Finland for members of the church (it's 1-2 % of one's income and varies based on where one lives). Personally I'm an atheist as are all close relatives, and religion in general is a very personal thing here and even religious people seldom attend church. The video mentioned 9 % attending church monthly for Finland, but I think it's even lower than that.
Swede here, we also have a church tax if you are a member, but many non-religious people are members of the church because they get automatical membership at birth. And to leave you have to write to the church and ask for a form to be sent to your adress fill in the form and send it back, giving them time to ask why you are leaving and stuff. It's a hassle.
And also being a member in the church also makes you entitled to be buried or ashes spread in a graveyard as I understand it.
I live in Belgium (not Germany sorry) but our religion classes were about a wide range of things, really depending on the teacher. Sometimes we had a year where religion wasnt even mentioned and it was just about ethics and philosophy and than another year where we were taught the history of christianity and the bible. I think the only real rule for the class was that it needed to have talked about at least one other religion other than christianity in the year, but for the most part the teachers were free to do what they wanted as long as it loosely followed the curriculum.
In Germany its mandatory to talk about all the big religions, compare them, understand were they come from and have also philosophy in the Religion class everything else is pretty similar the curriculum allows for the teacher to go in to smaller religions too pagan, Native American etc. if wanted.
Hi Heidi, I'm 44, I'm Italian and can tell my experience with the Religion Subject in school. When I was in primary school and junior high school, so up to 13 yr, the religion class, or 1 hour of religion a week, was mostly about catholic or christian story or in general about the specific religion in the majority of our country. However, in my high school, we were mostly moving to an actual study of other religions, or a talk with our teacher about it, and try to understand the differences between them and the one we knew.
surprised
In my opinion, religion should stay out of schools completely and, if present during other subject Ex. history related events, should be treated in the less biased approach.
Hope to see more contents from you, really appreciate your vibe in the videos and happy to see an intelligent person that actual uses the brain when doing reactions and keep an open attitude to differences that we have in the worlds.
Keep up the good job!
Hello Heidi. Yes really a very interesting topic. Here I have times for you found out what and for what the church tax is.
The church tax is a contribution of the church members for their church. It is not a government subsidy, but a means of financing the church by its members. The church tax is usually nine percent of the wage and income tax.
The largest share of the church tax flows into the local congregations: into pastoral services such as church services, youth, women's, senior citizen and family work. Employees such as church musicians, secretaries, sacristans and janitors must also be paid from this share.
Since 1953, church tax in the Federal Republic of Germany has been levied by the tax offices, for which the state receives three percent of the tax revenue as compensation for its services. The aim of the tax was and is to create a reliable financial basis for the work of the churches.
Kirschensteuer (cherry tax) 😂
2:40 Fun fact: The catholics tend to be more religious here in Germany than protestants.
Speaking of size - the USA (9,833,520 km²) are almost as big as the continent of Europe (10,180,000 km²).
11:05 Yeah - christianity is directly responsible for 1500 years of wars and bloodshed here in Europe. It's not just christianity of course - other religions are very similar in that regard.
The pledge of allegience...yeah, that thing. Here in Germany we did a similar thing once - it stopped in 1945. North Korea also does a similar thing as far as I know.
I had religious classes and none of them where about becoming more devout.
Church tax is the number 1 reason why people leave the churches btw. Every adult can at any point decide that he/she doesn't want to be a part of a church anymore, can go to the local administration and officially leave (Kirchenaustritt). This means that you no longer pay any form of church tax.
To answer the question at the end of the video - it is 100 % part of the picture of the USA that religious are running rampant there everywhere (worst in the bible belt of course, an area packed with christian fundamentalists who are every bit as extremist as the islamic fundamentalists or the hardlinders in Israel).
37:00 Only the Jehovah's wittnesses do something like that and they are frequently frowned upon by many people because of it. Germans hate it when someone tries to force their religious beliefs on us (something that is far more widespread in the USA btw).
"Church tax is the number 1 reason why people leave the churches btw."
I find that hard to believe. I think people first decide that church is not for them (anymore), and only then stop paying the tax.
@@stevenvanhulle7242 For some, sure.
Many people here in Germany do go to church occasionally even after leaving the organization though.
here in NZ - 48.5% are classified as unaffiliated, which can mean agnostic, atheist, or “nothing in particular.”
My experience as a pupil in Germany is dated by 30 years, but what I experienced was nothing short of indoctrination. There was no way to opt out or to even change the assignment to catholic or protestant class. this was done based on how I was baptised - something I had no control over. I became an atheist at the age of 6 or 7 when I was quite forcefully confronted with religious beliefs presented to me as part of my mandatory school curiculum, thereby being treated as facts, things I had to learn and which I was tested on and graded by.
In my opinion, it is apalling to be graded on one's knowledge of a belief system that one has not chosen and even wholeheartedly rejects. These grades contributed to the overall succes in exactly the same way as grades from math or German language classes.
In Gymnasium (+/- highschool, 5th to 13th grade in my case) my religion teachers were, without exception, catholic priests. Their classes were, unsurprisingly, not "informative"- Expecting such a person to refrain from seizing such an opportunity to instill their "teachings" into young children's minds is much like hiring a crack dealer to lead Chemistry class and take his word that he won't try to get them on drugs. I don't know if this has changed much since. For me, excape came only at the age of 14, when I was finally allowed to express the beliefs I had held for 8 years at that time in the form of telling the church to eff off and leave me alone. At least back then this was free of charge. Nowadays you actually have to pay money to get clear from something your parents did to you when you were a defenseless infant.
The whole idea of religious "class" in school is a travesty.
Than a lot changed since than, my religion class was more a theology class were we learned about the history of religion, about Christianity (catholic and protestant), Islam, Judism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Pagan religions etc. we also had big parts of philosophy and a lot of discussions.
Awesome! Wish you lots of have fun in our lovely 'little' Europe 🙏🙏
BFF's video glosses over a really important moment in European church history quite quickly. When Napoleon conquered most of Central Europe in the early 1800s, he followed the example of the French Revolution and transferred most of the churches' property to the states. After he was defeated, the new German states of course kept this property. This cut off a major revenue stream for the churches and endangered their operations - not just church services and weddings and such, but charitable activities like running hospitals. The introduction of church taxes - collected first by the churches, then increasingly by the states, until as she says a unified rule was established for all of Germany in 1919 - was seen as compensation for this lost revenue stream.
Church tax here in Germany is not a very prominent item on the political agenda. As others have said below, it is quite easy to opt out of paying it by leaving your church, at the expense of not being able to have your wedding and funeral officiated by your former church's priests.
Greetings from switzerland we have church religion classes too and ethic classes in higher grades. But mostly those topics are integrated in German class aka reading Nathan the Wise.
Yeay, I wanted to recomment that vid to you months ago due to of your Utah/mormon background
but then forgot about it (and about my YT-password as well :-D)
Nice that you found it
Hello Heidi,i like your open-minded way to look over the border. We have the choise between
religious education and ethics lessons. Stay well and a happy vacation time in europe. Greet´s from northern germany.
This is for your expedition to Europe. I wish to welcome you to Norway if that's one of your targets 🇳🇴
Oh my gosh! Thank you so much!
@@HailHeidi you're welcome! It's only a couple of coffee, but still something. I wanted to thank you for your great work. You deserve much more.
Here in Belgium , in our schoolsystem you can choose different religions. Katholic, protestant, Jewish or Islam. And if your not religious you can take ' morality ' classes. For me personally , I believe religion should be a personal and private thing, and not something they teach you about at school.
They usually don’t teach you “how to be religious” but what the religions entail and what their beliefs are. Tbh, as long as you attend a church, it’s not very private to begin with…
Religious education is getting more and more replaced with "philosophy of life" (Dutch "levensbeschouwing"), where instead of learning how to be a good christian (or muslim, jew, ...) you learn about the principles of the different religions.
When I was a kid I _did_ learn about christianity, and how to be a good christian. Being the atheist I am now was not an option then.
Religious education can vary a lot depending on location, age and sometimes teacher. For me personally it started in elementary school with literacy i.e. learning terminology and the meaning of symbols etc. it later turned into things like early history (how scholars think the faith developed, who wrote the bible) and in the end you learned about things like religious wars and the relationship between the churches and the nazis.
Catechesis is organized outside of schools by the churches connected to the first communion or confirmation sacraments.
I've lived in the USA for a while, and have many friends from there, but I was born, and currently live in the Netherlands.
For most of my American friends I know what church they go to, how often approx, what kind of activities they are involved in for their church, etc. That is because they often talk about it, and consider it part of their identity which should be shown to the 'outside'. In short, it is socially desirable, one could even say seen as a virtue, to be religious, and many people are 'religious' just because of the social desirability.
I only know this for a very small part of my European friends as it is rarely ever discussed and mostly considered a private matter.
The Chruch Land leases ("Erbpacht") usually are quite cheap and you pay less in the 99 years (especially as the lease does not rise in this time) then you would buying the land outright (and having to pay for the increased mortage rate)
As Estonian, i better not express my opinion about their "exporting of religion" aka crusade about 1000 years ago ;)
My HS assigned students to the same home room for all 4 years. For some reason, during freshman year, the kids in my home room just stopped standing up to the pledge of allegiance and talked through it. We never discussed it nor did it as any kind of protest, but it persisted for the rest of my HS years. It happened daily and for so long without any resistance from the teacher that I only realized that our classroom was not normal when I was called to another teacher’s room during the pledge.
First of all. I love watching your videos, and hearing your thoughts on the different issues. You make me think and wonder about things too. Like this, I had to look up how it is in Denmark.
Edit: I wasn't done, but hit the wrong key.
In Denmark we also have religion in school. It used to be called Christianity, but was changed to religion. There the kids will learn about different religions. Their practices and beliefs and how they differ from one another. I remember learning about the Nordic gods and the sagas. About Christianity. Islam. The Inuit beliefs from Greenland. Hinduism. Buddhism. It was always respectful.
Denmark is primarily Lutheran Christian.
Ok so I looked up church taxes is Denmark. It differs from where you live but it is around 1%. Where I live I pay 0,95% of my income in church tax. I am not a believer as such. I could just choose to call them up and withdraw from being a member of the church, but I don't mind paying. I think that the Danish church is a good part of Danish society and traditions, and it does a lot of good.
How ever, my children are not baptised, as I am of the belief, that they should choose for them self's. They are both grown now, and happy not to be a member.
I also looked up what the money from the taxes go towards, and 2/3 goes towards salaries of pastors and others working at the church. I also read that there is used more money of choir's and holding concerts than there is on diaconal work. I don't think missionary work is really a thing here in the Denmark. Not from The Danish Church. I have met some Mormon's from the states, that come to do missionary work. Also Jehovah's Witnesses. They stopped visiting me though, after I almost convinced the young guy in front of me, that he his truth was not absolute. The older man with him, was frantic in pulling him away. Logic is powerful sometimes. Anyway, preachings about god in public space is not something you will encounter. We are very private with out beliefs, no matter what they are. Pushing your beliefs on others, is frowned upon.
I am sure our church does not have the same amount of landownings as the German one.
Oh and last, what I think about American Christians. Of cause most of what we hear about, it is not the quiet silent practitioners. I hope those are what you have most of. Instead we hear about televangelists and big business churches. To be hones, I think about some of the Christians over there is bordering radical/fanatical, and it actually frightens me a little. People will follow blindly, and when people do that, they fail to see if they are hurting others or just being wrong.
I know it is not everyone. I hope it is just a few. But that is what we are often showed in tv shows and such. Probably because it sells better.
Religion classes in germany actually vary quite a bit
for one there's ethics classes, but the general religion classes also got split into catholic class and evangelical class
I actually took my final exams in religion despite being honestly not religious at all xD
catholic religion classes tend to be a bit more on the actually biblical side from what I'd seen from my friends, while our teacher always emphazised for example the religious (biblical) happenings while comparing it to the actually historical happenings
it sometimes felt a little more like history class, ethics class and a small sprinkle of german class since we also did some verse interpretations xD
though honestly, since the teachers usually are pastors of the corresponsing churches, it really depended on whoever teaches you
So visiting Europe this summer, where will you be going? Because we're not all the same, as you know by now. And as adviced before, go to one country, stay there, and try to get to know some of it. You'll learn little trying to visit many, it will be exhausting rather than fun.
Me and Gabrielle. Grown up in the corner of the "Bible Belt". In the Netherlands. Bunschoten Spakenburg. We had to go to church twice every Sunday. We are still Members of the Church. But we also have a very large sunday off card. If there is a nice concert on Saturday in the Netherlands, Belgium or Germany. Then we will definitely go there. And when we go it's mostly online. Greetings from Bunschoten-Spakenburg. Gerben T and Gabrielle.
25:30 what you're talking about is basically the fear of possibly being wrong is almost like admitting to be wrong (Maybe I will be swayed from my belief = I'm already not firm), so, what's the point?
I had a course about religion as part of philosophy course in the univercity. The lecturer was an open atheist. And yes, we've learned about different religions as philosophies.
Yep! Sweden here, we have been there and done that 😂
I love the BlackForest family! Their content and videos are top tier! ❤
16:10 This is interesting! Here in Finland, it's pretty common that houses are build on a rented property, too. However, here the owner of the land is typically municipality and the lease is guaranteed for 50 years.
We purchased our own property before building the house because in long run, renting the property doesn't make any sense. The municipality clearly declares that the yearly rent is 1/20 of the purchase of the property so in long run (20+ years) it's always cheaper to own the property.
However, because banks totally ignore the costs of property rent, some people build a more expensive house and cannot afford to pay for the property; banks are happy to give loan for the total value of house+property but you can opt to use that to house and just rent the property. I think that if the banks valuated renting the property differently, we woudn't be in this kind of situation here in Finland.
Religious majority in Germany is 14 years. This means that at the age of 14 a child can decide for itself what faith it wants to have. It helps that the state-employed teachers in religion classes give the students an overview of the faith and the church. Critical questions are allowed. What is then taught in class also depends on the teacher. In many cases, religious education also deals with social issues.
Actually, this lesson cannot be graded at all, as it is about faith. Often an opportunity for the students to raise their grade point average by participating in the topic.
In religious education, you can choose between Catholic, Protestant and Ethics.
Moderate Islam is also offered in some schools.
My children went to a Christian private school. There was not the question of which religious instruction takes place.
The question was whether the earth came into being through creation or through a chaotic big bang.
The students threw a glass on the floor and wondered if anything meaningful came of it. This proved the Big Bang theory or not
Tithing. The free Pentecostal churches pay no church tax but regularly voluntarily tithing funds to the local church. The free churches emerged after the church tax was introduced. But the free churches have not joined the state tax system.
The disadvantage, however, is that these Christians do not appear in the state census.
Here in Finland priests have learned to not push it. Because even out of the people who are members of the Church very few are actually religious, but hold and go to religious ceremonies on special occasions and larger and larger portion is not even a member, you can't expect people attending the ceremonies to actually believe.
Thus is you push forward the parts about voicing aloud your belief, it can get embarrassing when like the priest and three people speak aloud and the rest of the people sit in uncomfortable silence.
I was wondering whether you were an ex-Mormon. Glad to hear you left! Great video as always!
28:00 No, church tax is NOT tithing. It just may have the same effect. Churches pass around the basket at services AND sometimes ask for a monthly Kirchengeld in addition to the tax money they get from the state.
There are land leases here in the US, but it’s more rare and usually the owner is the government. I found this out when I was looking into buying an office building.
In elementary school the religion class was very much about the old and new testament. Later in school it a was to a major extend about society and social topics. We also discussed quite often things that were currently going on in the world or in our own country. Religion as such wasn't a topic anymore. By the way ist was also possible to opt out form religion class and chose ethics instead.
We had exactly that situation with our appartment in Florida. We owned the appartment but we had to pay a yearly lease to the owners of the lot. And it was not that cheap as it is usually in Germany. I found it a big nuisance because in addition to the HOA fees (building maintenance) there was this lease payment.
So it does exist also in the USA. Only it is not a church who owns the land.
I think she is making a mistake when talking about Western Europe, perhaps because she lives in Germany on a daily basis. It is better to differentiate northern Europe from southern Europe, which generally do not live religion in the same way.
I have taught religion in the 5th and 6th grades at a Danish school. It is a far cry from bible studies. Emphasis is put on the impact of our religious heritage on our modern ethics and legislation and on similarities and differences between religions past and present.
In my state in east germany we had a standard class that was "Life conduct, ethics and religion". It was mostly about the basics of the different religions and ethical questions about life. You could and I did attend to classes given by the church. The classes were given by a priest. It was teaching stories from the bible combining it with questions about everyday life. It was giving the view of the church, but it was mostly a moderated discussion of the students about ethical questions. We also learnd about other religions also. In the end it was also no indoctrination as most students were actually from atheist families. (No wonder we have like 90% atheists in my area.) People took the class as the priest (specially assigned to take care of youth matters) was way cooler guy then most normal teachers.
A remark about church taxes: In general, each religious group could sign a contract with the state to get church taxes. Such a contract is called a concordate. A concordate also includes the provision of religious school education, privileges and obligations of the religious group and similar things. The catholic church and the large protestant churches have such concordates with the respective states (Religion is handled at the state level in Germany), other protestant churches decided against a contract. They are often referred to as Freikirchen (free churches).
Germany does not have a strict separation of Church and State as the U.S. or France for instance. On the other hand, no religious affiliation has a majority in any German state, thus churches have only limited leverage, and the growing number of persons in Germany who are not member of any church or are without any religion at all is growing. In fact, the Nones are the largest group in Germany overall, larger than Catholics or Protestants and amount to (depending on who you ask) about 40 percent of the population.
Oh another thing, most kids here, at least at my time (i was born 1964) still did the "conformation" thing where we had to go every week to learn some religous shit, that everyone hated. But it was for one reason .. when it was all done we mostly got a lot of presents, and that meant mostly money, and for me that was the money to buy my first good hi-fi system, what was a big thing at that time aroun 1978 or whenever.
But that was really the only reason for all of us, else everybody hated it.
No church taxes in the netherlands, and in Denmark only chuirch tax when you are a membner of the Danish state church
In Germany also only as a Church member
Our education system has an open attitude to this. Certain basics and general information are included in civics with additional basics on human rights and phylosophy. Differences on the globe are part of geography and history lessons.
I am from Austria and was sworn in as a chartered Accountant. The relevant law states the formula and the sentence that „it is allowed to add an religious affirmative formula“ (like „so help me god“). But actually, almost nobody of my colleagues used it (me neither, even though I was a servant at my church at home when I was a child/teenager and I was doing the readings etc. It felt great to be responsible for something, but I have to say that I kind of „grew out of that“ in my later teen years and could less and less identify with the whole thing. Today I have to say that I am very sceptical if everything dogmatic or fanatic and think that there is probably no God and that there is nothing to worry about. But still, the gist of the Ten Commandments is actually a „good idea“. But you don‘t need a God for that. You can figure that out by yourself (or like Kant).
I think the moral compass in the US is mainly driven by religion. What makes us to look on Americans as prude. When I remember what a public scandal it was, when a nipple of a popstar was popping out of her robe "Nipple-Gate". In Europe we are a lot more liberal when it comes to nudity or even dealing with sexuality. So, prostitution is illegal in the US, except some smaller districts in Nevada. But on the the other hand the US have the biggest adult film industry all over the world and explain this as a form of their "Freedom of Speech".
From my european view, the US moral codex looks completely insane.
GTA: San Andreas, Hot Coffee. You run around beating, stabbing, run over and shooting random people to death on the street. Everything is OK. Then the Hot Coffee patch enables some very boring and badly made, fully clothed, sex scenes. And the rating have to be changed from Mature to Adults Only. And of course it is USA, people sued the companies behind the game.
29:23 the charitable organisations are open to *anyone*. I mean a protestant hospital takes anyone with insurance, not only protestants.
The positive side of this is the fact that the majoriry of hospitals, hospices and ambulance services are run as non-profits.
I wished the German movie version for Morthon Rhue's book "The (3rd) Wave" they made in 2008 here would be avaible to all people around the world dubbed, subbed, synchronized even "just with English to being with subtitles" but I have never seen that besides the trailer in my life.
The church land lease thing when buying a house/apartment is very interesting to me. I live in austria so i would have assumed over here things are similar to southern germany but i actually never ran into this.
We don't have a church tax either but instead there is a "church fee" (Kirchenbeitrag) which you pay directly to the church and it's technically based on your income (up to a max of 400€) but obviously the church doesn't have access to your income data, so it's up to you what you report to them. My mom even had a priest call her and was offering to lower her fee when she was about to leave the church. obviously you don't have to pay it when you leave the church. You can still go to church and make use of most of services the church provides when you leave church (as the social services are also accessible to other religions) but you can't marry in a church. There is no church membership card 😂
Pledge of alliegence is not very traditional.. it came after 2nd ww with boy scout movement.
wonderful thaughts on religion classes. that's how it's done, or i have expireinced it in switzerland. we learned about all religions in religious classes and another thing about religious class was that, no matter we would do during that class we would get the highest grade possible
In europe the catholic church is very busy adjusting their number of members.
They make sure everyone leaves, because of their outrageous number of victims to abuse they have caused to this day.
Once so many people actually applied for cancellation, yes you need to cancel church-membership in a legal act, the server of the authority in charge broke down.
Religious education where I grew up in Sweden was a class to teach the kids about the fundamentals of the major religions of the world.
There is a church tax here in Sweden again that everybody pays since we are members of the church from birth. You can get out of the tax by leaving the church but then you loose the right for things like marrying in a church (if both have left.)
But even if you leave the church you still have to pay the funeral tax so that everybody can get a plot to be buried in once they pass.
I left the church only a month after my 18th birthday and my sister did the same as have a bunch of my friends.
I would argue that Heidi is the best reactor ever!
You're so sweet. 🥺💜
I can not speak for the south of germany, but where I grew up you choose between protestant class, catholic (but they were hardly enough students through the years) or ethics/philosophy class. The latter is where usually those of other religions and non religious students take, but you could actually take either of tpthe classes no matter if or what religion you align with. I had ethics class. From what I heard from friends on religion class, they also learned about learn about the big 5 world religion. Aside from that definetly also morality, holding a discussion and generally also just how to be act/add to as a member of society. In ethics class we also had philosophy and sex ed etc. I do not now if they also had these in religion class.
about church-tax in Germany. It comes out of the paycheck. But you can opt out of it. It's one visit to the tax office. And one angry letter from your local pastor.
Last I checked. About 1/3 of Germans have opt out.
Good video
30:00 Church tax ("kirkollisvero" in Finnish) is reality in Finland, too, but only for the members of the two biggest churches. The members of those churches have extra tax in their income tax and they could get rid of that tax simply by leaving the church. And to leave the church, you can fill in a single form on a single web page. The tax is 1-2% of your yearly income and it seems that surprisingly many think that their tax percentage is not too high and they keep the membership of the church. And that's just the mandatory part, voluntary tithing is still expected in the churches in practice.
If the church tax were 8-9% like in Germany, I'm sure most Finns would leave the church immediately.
I think the size of the USA being the reason why people don't travel is both true and untrue.
Europe is about the same size, but many Europeans travel to USA, Japan, and Australia for example.
It is also overprotection of the children (understandably) and the lack of paid vacation.
I personally haven't travelled that much, but I moved to USA when I was 17, and visited Morocco when I was 19, later in life I visited China a couple of times for a total of 6 months.
All of the people I know have travelled quite far away from Europe.
Oh, and nobody I know goes to Church or is practicing any religion actively, the most common thing you'll hear is "I don't believe in God, but I believe in something"
In Finland people choose religious course based on which religion you are part of, or some sort of ethic course for non religious. In Christian courses I went, it was like: "Here is Christianity, history and basics. Now let's learn about other religions, what we have common and what differences we have compared to other religions. What we need to know about other religion customs if we travel so we can respect other religions."
Also, I am on my first year without church tax, since I am not part of the church for now but I definitely see good reasons to pay church tax even if a person is not religious. As a kid I went to free religious daycare because my parents paid church tax. There is plenty of religious groups and hobbies for youth and elder people to prevent loneliness and a lot of support systems for people who have health or other issues in life. And even now when I am not part of church, I could attend to religious happenings since they are open to everyone regardless if person is religious or part of other religion etc. I can't get married in church but my marriage can be blessed in church if my partner is religious. Only thing I worry is being godmother since it is officially religious custom.
The religious holidays, however, is funny thing. Christianity has put religious holidays on same days that originally European pagan holidays were, Christmas for example is not originally Christian holiday, Easter is pagan holiday... etc. And therefore the old pagan ways to celebrate these holidays under Christian tag is sort of reason why people don't have that much issues, I think.
in denmark we have a christian state church of which our royal house are members, if you are a member you pay 0.87% in church tax. approx. 65% of the population do so
Many Europeans emigrated to the U.S. because the way they practiced their religion was considered extremist in Europe. They saw themselves oppressed in the practice of their religion.
Well, the tax thingy is easy to explain - Churches did pay a huge role way back in the years before 1648 (napoleonic times) up to about 1808. But during these times they got dispossessed from a lot of their ground, they get forced totally out of regular legislative tasks. Before this time the bishops and churches did rule their land like sovereigns which they had been given by kings and ceasars to ensure their support - support of financial kind for defense and sometimes even wars, plus support by confessing normal people on the street to support the king and work for him. As compensation for this disposessing the state government of the german states ("Germany" is a federal republic, like the US too) did agree to pay them for the missing incomes from all of this - and there was no end of payment agreement in these papers. So, legally seen all of this is still the repairments that were decided back in the 16th up to 18th century. While the christian churches did agree to let go these agreements for a one-time payment, there was no agreement made on the amount of money that could do repair for the given up influence, the financial treasures and the land.
Back in medieval times bishops were given huge chunks of land and they had all influence you could imagine as present for supporting the king or the sovereign. When the states were founded the states did have to get rid of that "landlords" and legal dependencies from churches, so they had to kind of buy free from them. THat's what all of this comes from. Nowadays laws are made from "the state", juristic issues are dealt from lawyers according to that laws and only the state can enforce this laws by punishments. There still had to be some minor agreements to be done for the land the churches were standing on, some historic buildings and treasures are built on. Not at all a comparison to what it was back before the foundation of the states of Germany. When it were whole landscapes with all cities, villages, the rivers, woods and streets built on it back in the times it *now* is more or less a few buildings and the land they're built on.
Starting in 1919 there were already first communications with the churches to have one big one-time payment to buy out of this contract which the churches essentially did agree to, but there still has to be found some recent price for this buy-out. That's what actually still is not agreed on, but I hope we will finally get out of all that the next 10-20 years. Depends on what financial issues will pop up from current worldwide situation... Let's call it "Work in progress", maybe? 😉
I hope that sheds a little bit of light onto the whole situation and makes it more understandable for foreigners, because without that background knowledge it would not be understandable at all for me too. 😊
We had learnt about: chrisianity and their parts like orthodoxie or "free" church of Brazil; Islam , Judaism, Budhism , Hinduism, and such as
Konfuzianism .... .
That was in around 1980 in a little rural town in western germany.
In the Netherlands, the numbers are similar than in Germany, although the church as institution does not have such a prominent role in the Netherlands as in Germany. It is striking that the higher the education level, the lower religiosity is. That difference is huge, over 50%. I do think that as in the USA, atheïsm is growing the fastest. As an atheïst myself, I have researched religiosity as a psychological phenomenon a lot because I am curious about what it is that makes people believe stories that in any other context would be nonsensical. I did not find the answer to that. So, for me religion is still a different universe. There is no church tax in the Netherlands. There was, kind of, until I think 1980, to the Dutch reformed church and the Dutch protestant church, but it was bought off indefinitely by the Dutch state to be prepared for more diversity (influx of musiim immigrants), thus avoiding an unequality between religions. That inequality was there as catholics got nothing in the first place. But that has historical roots (80 years war of independence against catholic Spain in the 16th and 17th century).